The Great Unstacking
Remember the good old days, say six months ago, when the Raiders were supposedly “stacked” at wide receiver? Well, we’ve become unstacked in a hurry.
This is fresh from NFL.com: Raiders WR Randy Moss has again reiterated on a FOX Sports Radio segment that he's not happy in Oakland and would be open to leaving the team, be it via a trade this season or after 2006. "If they're not going to use me right or if I'm not, depending upon what they want as far as what they're paying me, then trade me or get rid of me at end of season or during the season. It might be good for me to go elsewhere," Moss said. Moss added that he's not interested in voicing his displeasure to Raiders owner Al Davis, calling it a waste of time.
Let’s review the Great Unstacking: Porter goes into Shell’s doghouse, apparently never to emerge again. Doug Gabriel is traded just prior to the start of the season. Alvis Whitted, at age 32, is named a bona fide starter for the first time in his career. Randy Moss jogs around the field, drops easy balls, then claims, repeatedly, that the team isn’t using him correctly. Ronald Curry lingers in the background, and Johnnie Morant gets about as much action as Jerry Porter.
So Gabriel is long gone, Porter will apparently never wear a Raiders gameday jersey again, and Randy Moss has one lazy foot out the door.
Therefore, unless we plan on rebuilding the 2007 receiving corps around Alvis Whitted, I’d like to see a new receivers plan implemented on the field, effective immediately.
If you would like some icing on this bitter cake, read this story (thanks for the link, Damon and Mad Stork 83), in which Moss calls out Raiders legend Howie Long for stating the obvious.
This is fresh from NFL.com: Raiders WR Randy Moss has again reiterated on a FOX Sports Radio segment that he's not happy in Oakland and would be open to leaving the team, be it via a trade this season or after 2006. "If they're not going to use me right or if I'm not, depending upon what they want as far as what they're paying me, then trade me or get rid of me at end of season or during the season. It might be good for me to go elsewhere," Moss said. Moss added that he's not interested in voicing his displeasure to Raiders owner Al Davis, calling it a waste of time.
Let’s review the Great Unstacking: Porter goes into Shell’s doghouse, apparently never to emerge again. Doug Gabriel is traded just prior to the start of the season. Alvis Whitted, at age 32, is named a bona fide starter for the first time in his career. Randy Moss jogs around the field, drops easy balls, then claims, repeatedly, that the team isn’t using him correctly. Ronald Curry lingers in the background, and Johnnie Morant gets about as much action as Jerry Porter.
So Gabriel is long gone, Porter will apparently never wear a Raiders gameday jersey again, and Randy Moss has one lazy foot out the door.
Therefore, unless we plan on rebuilding the 2007 receiving corps around Alvis Whitted, I’d like to see a new receivers plan implemented on the field, effective immediately.
If you would like some icing on this bitter cake, read this story (thanks for the link, Damon and Mad Stork 83), in which Moss calls out Raiders legend Howie Long for stating the obvious.
posted by Raider Take at 9:23 AM
60 Comments:
How nice is it to see that he doesn't even go talk to Al Davis anymore to voice his opinion because it's a "waste of time"? That's at least a breath of fresh air considering the usual story out of the media is that coaches have little control because the inmates run the asylum.
Doobie:
I've always thought the Davis interferance what a press created urban myth. Not one Raider coach has made the claim that I'm aware of, with the possible exception of Mike Shanahan. I've heard complaints that Davis insists that coaches play certain players, but that kind of thing comes from EVERY owner. It is, after all, the owner's dime that is going to pay the player - he has a right to see him get played. Personally, I'd rather have Al Davis deciding who gets played than John York.
Also, remember Callahan's last year, when players complained that they wanted Al Davis to intervene with the coach for them, but he refused.
The following regards Walter...
In an earlier post I mentioned that Shell was faced with a serious question regarding Walter in the game against SF. Essentially, "Does it hurt him more if I leave him in, or if I pull him?" This is a question that coaches frequently face when starting inexperienced QBs. Different coaches approach it different ways, but there is plenty of precedent for both answers. Historically, Raider coaches have not been shy about pulling their QB. But it's not just true for the youngsters. I've seen Lamonica, Stabler and Plunkett all pulled for being ineffective, even at the height of their careers. I thought Shell was right in this. Walter had made game changing mistakes on three consecutive drives. Lamonica, Stabler, and Plunkett all would have expected the same.
And there is something else on the horizon that is going to piss people off here. But it is going to happen as sure as night becomes day. When he's able, Brooks is going to start again - probably within the next two weeks. How can Shell be so stupid, you'll ask? It's not an Art Shell question. It's a Raiders question. It has been the Raiders policy for as long as I can remember (and I'm going back to the 60s here) that no starting player loses his job because of an injury. When the injury is healed, the player returns to the starting line-up.
The only time this ever appeared to happen was when Plunkett replaced Pastorini in 1980. The difference was that Pastorini broke his leg and was out for the season. The following season Pastorini hadn't fully recovered so they went with Plunkett permanently. But Plunkett (few remember) was pulled for ineffectiveness in 1981. He led them to another Super Bowl in 1983.
So Brooks will start again. As far as the Raiders having designated Walter as QB of the future. The Raiders have never made that claim. The press has assumed it because the Raiders didn't draft a QB. I believe, in fact, that Walter is the Raiders designated QB of the future.
However, the Raiders do not give the starting QB job to anyone. John Madden tells the story of the young Ken Stabler walking into his office and demanding to start. Madden told him, "Nobody is going to give that job to you. You're going to have to take it." And those words describe the Raider way.
If Walter is going to be the Raiders starting QB, nobody is going to give him that job. He's going to have to compete for it, in game time and in practice, and he's going to have to make the offense his. If Walter can't do that, he's not a Raider QB, just a stop gap, and the Raiders will have to look elsewhere. The same would have been true had the Raiders picked one of the young QB studs in the last draft.
Personally, I wouldn't want it any other way. I want Walter to take that job, and I don't want to see him babied into it.
Randy Moss in a war of words with Howie long. I love it.
Moss, you lazy air head, let me tell you a few things about Howie Long.
Howie Long played hard/smart/tough every down, every game for his entire great career.
Howie Long came out of nowhere to go all the way to Canton Oh.
Howie Long did his talking on the football field.
Howie Long helped make the Raiders winners, he didn't say "get me outahere", when the chips were down.
Howie Long is greatly respected by every Raider fan I know.
Moss, you are a sad clown. You couldn't put Minny over the top, and now you can't even help the Raiders get to the middle.
Art Shell, please show some guts. You should do to Moss this yr, what Andy Reid did to T.O., last yr. Cut this cancer out. Just get him away from this team right now. Give him even more time to "enjoy his life".
I think we'll do just fine without lazy, selfish, mindless, Moss strolling through his routes on game days.
The Gabriel trade is starting to show a little more clarity, but this is not likely the season for comparisons.
Checking Gabriel's stats this season, he's started 3 games for the 4-1 Pats, but his numbers are very similar to Ron Curry's (perhaps not as good). Curry hasn't started a game.
Gabriel has 12 receptions for 129 yards and one touchdown. Curry has 10 receptions for 173 yards and no touchdowns. Consider that Gabriel is playing for a more stable team, behind a consistently solid offensive line. Curry plays for a team that could barely get off a pass its first two games, and he's coming back from a double Achilles tendon tear after missing only part of one season. Many receivers never survive one Achilles tear. Also consider how much less time the Raider's offense has been on the field. They have the lowest time of possession in the league, which means less time spreading the ball around.
It is true that Whitted's numbers aren't as good as Gabriel's, with only 6 receptions for 70 yards. But again, the difference between the two teams is very relevant considering the problems that the Raiders have had with pass protection.
I think the reason that you won't see Curry supplant Whitted this season is because the Raiders want to keep Curry around for a long time. He has taken less time to recover from his injuries than it takes most players to recover from the same thing. Curry will have a long career with the Raiders as a possession WR. They want to be very careful with him to make sure that he fully and completely heals. Curry is, no doubt, special. Give me another Curry over Moss, I'll take that any day of the week. In fact, Moss' numbers don't look any better than either Curry's or Gabriel's. 12 receptions for 139 and 2 touchdowns.
While Gabriel would have been more help this season than a nearly unused Morrant, I think the Raiders knew that he wasn't going to get much better than he was, and they felt he had no long term future with the team. I also think that the Raiders expected that they would get the same effort from Randy Moss that they got last season. I think they figured that a trade would materialize for Porter (probably for a draft choice or two) at which point they'd elevate Buckhannon from the practice squad. But I've said it before, and I'll say it again, if there is no trade for Porter by October 17, he will be back in the line-up on October 22. Shell isn't refusing to use him because he's pissed at Porter, Shell's refusing to play him to keep him from being injured making the Raiders unable to trade him.
I wonder if the Raiders have considered packaging both Porter and Moss together for a trade? What do you suppose that would bring?
RT -
If Moss and Porter are gone for 2007, we would probably build a WR corps around Ron Curry and another free agent.
Curry is not only a great athlete, but he has a wonderful, innate ability to get open, great hands, excellent runner after the catch. On top of that, he has a fantastic team first attitude and is very humble. The guy racks up big numbers in limited snaps. Give him a full season and 2007 and I would be confident that he can produce 80/1000/10 type numbers.
Our WR Corps would look like something like this
Curry, Morant, Buchanon, Whited, Madsen, plus Free Agent and draft pick.
You want to know something ... at this point I'm so sick and tired of the half steppin, me-first divas who think the world revolves around them that I'm fine with guys like Morant, Curry, Buchanon that have the skill and DESIRE to do what is best for the team.
Blandarocked:
I agree with you about
"The Gabriel trade is starting to show a little more clarity" ...
Yeah. It is clear all right. It clearly was a stupid trade.
I don't need to do any statistical analysis or be privy to what goes on behind closed doors at Alemeda to realize one thing ... The Gabriel trade was a DUMB trade under any and all cirucmstances. Period.
No point in trying to justify it, speculate about it, or do any comparative analysis.
Bottom Line: The Raiders would have been better off to have started the season with Gabriel, would be better off today with Gabriel, and would be better off tomorrow & 2007 with Gabriel.
Calico Jack, you and I are on the same page. So I'm wondering: Why not get this party started right now?
The inconsistent treatment of Porter and Moss per their respective insubordinations, along with the continued starting of Whitted, looks like a road map to nowhere.
BlandaRocked, I'm loving your takes as an antidote to my pessimistic mood right now. I will say that Gabriel has only played, I believe, in 2.5 games for the Patriots, and that he is learning a new system and adapting to a new QB. In that context, he has performed
I do agree that Curry has more upside. As for saving him from injury, however, I'd say we need to find out now, not later, if he can hold up for the long term. Going into 2007, we need to know if he's durable enough to be a centerpiece of this offense.
RT, & Calico,
I agree to the tenth power !!!
And let's not stop at WR.
If Fargas is out playing Jordan, then give Fargas the bulk of the carries.
Leave Walter in there. Yes, he's going to look awful at times, but we need to find out what we've got at Qb. Brooks is not the answer, and Tui is gone after this yr. Do we draft a Qb ?? Don't know, but obviously, if Walter makes great strides, we can possible address other positions with draft picks. Nothing will be gained/learned by keeping Walter on the bench.
It just looks like most of the vets on this team have thrown in the towel.
The only time they hustle these days, is when they run to pick up the paychecks they are stealing.
PLAY THE YOUNG GUYS NOW !!!!!
Calico:
Thanks for the analysis. All I'm saying is that we fans want what we want, but the corporation has to deal with business considerations and strategies which come into play with the decisions they make with team. While I agree with you that Gabriel is better than Whitted, I don't think he brings anything special to the team. I've always felt that Curry, Morrant, and even Francis (who's been continually injured) have more upside.
Raider Take:
Everything I've heard says that an Achilles tear takes at least a year, sometimes two, to fully heal. Tim Brown had one his rookie year and they babied him when he came back. Curry has had two. What you're seeing in Curry is a medical miracle. You can't throw someone who is likely not fully healed into full time play, unless you're intent on ending his career.
Gabriel has played in four games, and started the last three. His best numbers were in his first game (when he didn't start), and he's been going down hill since. The Pats haven't had a bye yet, so he was only held out his first game.
I'm pretty sure that Gabriel saw his first action with the Patriots in week three, in the second half against the Broncos. He did great in that second half, and great the next week, then didn't do anything last week (Week 5).
He sat out the first game. He played in week 2 against the Jets. Shut out. He didn't start against the donkeys, but had his best day - six catches and a touchdown (I had thought he started this game - but no). He started in week 4 and 5. Game 4 - 4 catches for 57 yards and no touchdowns. Game 5 - 2 catches for 7 yards and no touchdowns. So Gabriel has had seven weeks with a Super Bowl calibur team. My bet is that Gabriel's numbers this year won't look very much different than his numbers with the Raiders last year, and likely not as good.
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/395962/gamelogs/2006
He did get a touchdown in week four, as in week three, and I really don't think he was on the field much in week two. We could go round and round on this...But I think we agree that Gabriel's better than Whitted, and that Curry has more upside than Gabriel if he can stay healthy.
Blandarocked -
Gabriel's contract/cap number was a non-issue. Comparing Gabriel to Francis is silly.
Gabriel would be a valuable WR for the Raiders whether he is a #2 WR, #3 WR, #4 WR, or even #5 WR.
The point real simple.
The Raiders would be better off with Gabriel than without him.
Raiders traded WR, D. Gabriel for a 5th round draft pick. Here is some further analysis that may shed some light on this deal.
Well, sort of...
This is a list of Raider 5th round draft picks for the last 10 yrs.
'96 Laroi Glover
'97 No pick
'98 Jeremy Bingham, & Travian Smith
'99 Eric Barton, & Rod Coleman
'00 Shane Lechler
'01 Ray Perryman
'02 Kenyon Coleman
'03 DOUG GABRIEL
'04 Jonnie Morant
'05 No pick
'06 No pick
In conclusion, it seems Al Davis acually was able to find some really good talent with these picks.
Unfortunately, for some reason, most of these good players were shown the door.
The final analysis on the Gabriel trade:
Davis will pick a really good player with the Gabriel draft pick...
and then he will get rid of that player after 3 years.
I'm not saying I disagree. For my money, I'd take Gabriel over Porter. But I'm looking for some explaination other than "Al Davis and Art Shell are stupid!"
I don't really believe that, and I don't think you do either. I'm just looking for possible reasons, or what their plan might be. But the fact is that the Raiders were looking to trade Gabriel even before camp last year.
http://realgmfootball.com/src_wiretap_archives/309/20050707/raiders_want_to_keep_porter_trade_doug_gabriel/
I think the issue that a lot of us as raider fans have with the team are not with the losses. Its with the sense that there is a general lack of direction within the organization from ownership down to the waterboy. I myself expect better answers from a coach during a press conference when your team is loosing. Art Shell does not have the resume or proven track record to give us bullshit answeres like "I don't know" when he is asked when Porter will play. I don't want speak for other people but I am more upset with all of these questionable moves ie trading Gabriel, benching Porter, not signing a run-stopping takle, Whitted starting, lack of 2nd half adjustments for the offense. Its one thing to do these things, but not to give us a viable explanation is unexceptable. I am tired of the coaches and management over rating our talent. We didnt sign a run stopping takle because they thought what they had was good enough ....its not.
Who in this organization really thinks that Whitted is a starting wide reciever, who really thinks he is our second best reciever? So WHY is he starting we deserve to know. Its one thing to suck because your developing talent (like dallas did Aikmans 1st yr) You can at least say ya but we have a plan.
We as raider fans (at least myself) want to know what is the plan. Are we really sacraficing success in games so that Porter doesnt get hurt so that we can trade him. Does anyone really believe that they are going to get that much more for Porter right befor the deadline vs what they would have got before the season. Be real they havn't traded him yet because no one wants him. Or wants to pay that much for him. Some one just tell me what the hell is going on. I know Tampa Bay is 0-4 and whoever else but they are not questioning whether they are competing and what they are trying to do as an organization. Our organization is being questioned by everyone even past Hall of Fame players who played their whole career with the raiders. I dont want to hear another word about what happend in the 50's 60's 70's or 80's I dont want to hear how this type of player or philosophy was successful at that time. Unless we go back in time it doesnt mean shit. I cant get to excited about a Super bowl victory my dad watched. I want to experience my own. So you name me one other team in the nfl that is running the same philosophy that they ran 20+ yrs ago. They dont even have to be succesful, just name me a team that is doing it. And dont name me the west coast offense because bill walsh wouldnt recognize todays west coast offenses.
We have become the bengals of the 1990's. Its sad.
Great takes, everyone.
Going into Denver 0-4 is not what we hoped for. Moss running his mouth instead of his routes...not what we hoped for.
Strangely enough, and I may need some sleep and a little less scotch, but I'm just so glad that every Sunday until New Years that I get to see the Raiders play football that I can almost take the drama. Loses and all.
Maybe I should be medicated.
Here's to pulling off the upset of the week on Sunday night!
Cheers.
Side note: I'm out 4 Moss replicas (wife - 2, nephew - 2) if we dump the ol' rascal, but it still gets my vote if Art and Al think its the right thing to do. Thank God my authentic #11 is holding up.
Quick Question: Can we bundle Porter and Moss as a single deal package? Someone just might pay Porters bonus to get Moss!
raider00:
I'm getting really tired of living in the past. Randy Moss is emotional, sure, but he's more valuable than Howie Long ever was. And he's not the clubhouse cancer so many people are making him out to be. He's under more scrutiny than Howie ever was, and he's been a team leader in the locker room and actively constructive on the sideline. Howie Long had this trick he did with his arm to get leverage –– big fucking deal. Randy is a human highlight reel. Maybe the greatest to ever play WR. I WANT TO KEEP HIM!!!
Question: If PortSter is in-active game day does he get a game check??? I think he is loosing money if he does not suit for the game!!! It might still count against the sallery cap but not go in his pocket??? As far as his value, I beleive he only had one good year and a fair rooky year but not a great player, has alot of upside if he performs but he is not consistant. Sack-em!!!
WR: I think we still have depth, Curry WR/QB/RB in the Slash Position is a great find. Before the draft I was asking for MarcusVick to be taken as a SlashBack WR, but nobody wanted his bagage!!! Morant is big and fast with good hands and healthy and Madsen is like another McCaferty from the Donks. Buchannon has alot of promise with good hands. Francis has the speed of Whited but some hands, and says he is not injured, maybe was put on the RI for safe keeping???
Moss is a nut-case!!! but people take him too serious, I saw him go over the middle this week, 2 times I think and catch the ball..and that end-zone knee catch was great, I know ya saw it!!! and ya, he had an easy drop in the end-zone too but he wanted that catch, it would have been his #100, he got it later with the knee catch!! He had 5 catches, 4 more than last week!!! I don't give a rats-ass what he says or does between games as long as he comes in and plays!!
PantyRaider-CasteratedDonkeyRockyMountainOysterEatanSavage!! SundayNightNutFry!! MuleHeadPlatter-w-RoadAppleMouth!! Donky-on-a-Stick!! FlameingPitBar-Be-QuedNeuteredWhiteStallian!! DeadOldGrayMareSwayBackBitch-w-HorseFliesCircalingTheBungHole-e-Oh!! Wow!!What-a-Meal!!!
Kevin,
I hope I didn't come across as someone wanting to live in the past. Anyone who reads this blog can tell you that I wanted the Raiders to draft Matt Leinart with their first pick back in April, and move ahead into the future.
Of course I would prefer to root for Randy Moss, but Moss makes it very difficult to do.
He seems to have an attitude of, "let me know when we're winning, and then I'll play hard".
Shouldn't be this way. Moss, if he really were a leader, would be leading by example on the field. He could choose to be a ray of light, in an otherwise dark season.
Instead, he has opted to quit, and to make it rather public that he is giving up, and to hint that he wouldn't mind a trade.
In other words, when the going gets rough, Moss acts like a child.
As for Howie Long, I don't know what else to tell you. The guy was a monster who spent most of his time in the opponents backfield.
It sounds like you never had the priviledge of seeing him play.
That's to bad, but if you want to learn more about him, just take a trip to the Hall of Fame, in Canton, OH.
You can read a lot about this special player there.
Blandarocked:
I agree with RT that your takes are very insightful. However, the Raiders do have a history of grooming young QBs and even babying them into action, ala Marc Wilson, Todd Marinovich, Rusty Hilger, etc. The Snake was the Raiders only successful project.
Walter represents much more to the Raiders than any of those bums. He seems to have a passion to succeed and might soon provide the leadership that this teams appears to lack. And the Raiders know, based on salary configuration, that Brooks is gone next year. In itself, that may open the door for Walter (sooner or later, but not too much later... see Tui for further reference).
Re: Gabriel, there's no way anyone can make sense of trading a starting receiver for a 5th round pick. And instead of matching Curry's stats with Gabriel, why not look at Whitted... I don't have the numbers at hand, but I'm sure over the course of a season (no matter the QB) the numbers will speak volumes. Trading Gabriel may end up being one of the biggest mistakes Big Al has ever made; but he doesn't need me to judge that... time will tell.
With all the talent widespread in the NFL, one of the things that separate teams (besides coaching) is emotion and desire to win. While there's a lot of frustration to go around, the Raiders have to be pissed off, and even negative energy may serve them on the field right now. Let's hope they take out a little frustration on the Donkeys this week.
Ny Raider Fan
Doobie, I don't think anyone but Amy Trask talks to Al Davis.
I'm not going to compare Moss and Long, it's too easy to slam Moss, and it would be biased on my part since Howie is my fav Raider ever!
Moss talks about how nobody on this team cares, so why should he? Well, let's look at the past few weeks of taking leads, and not being able to hold onto it. You said it yourself in training camp that you were impressed with Walter's ability, and now you have a chance to help him develope and what do you do? You run half assed, dropping easy catches, and show us that you're a bigger shit than TO! Hoge said one thing right this past week about you, at least TO TRIES!
If you want the ball, and you want to be the "playmaker" start acting like it. That is what Howie was calling you out on, you P-O-S! A "playmaker" helps everyone around him become better players, that is what Howie did. A "playmaker" is not a cancer like you. Get over yourself.
I would like to know what you all think about changing things up, effective immediately on the receivers front...
If Porter's time as a Raider is done (and I see no evidence to the contrary), and if Randy Moss doesn't want to be here (as evident in his play, and the fact that he's agitating hard to be somewhere else next year), does a starting tandem this week of Whitted and Moss make sense? What is that building toward? Maybe we need to start positioning this team with 2007 in mind?
The counter-argument is that you don't bench Moss, because he gives us the best chance to win RIGHT NOW. Good argument, but if you're going to start Whitted over Porter, then that argument goes right out the window, right?
blandarocked,you have got to be one of the dumbest posters i have ever read. your posts are so bad and long that it is impossible to even read it without either laughing to hard or getting just downright disgusted. you have no clue,you are so blinded by your ass kissing of the organization that you can't see anything about the team with clarity. your excuses for art and al is a joke,your spin on the gabriel trade is hilarious and your ass kissing of moss is dreadful. face it,art is a crap coach along with the mayor,Al has completely lost it and the organization is in a tailspin that can only be rectified by Al going away and starting with a complete clean slate. but you,you will defend this garbage ,spin the facts to ridiculous proportions and make the dumbest excuses to try and rationalize it. don't think that you are fooling anyone but yourself. you need to take a look in the mirror just like this organization does and try and see it for what it really is. you think by doing what you are doing is supporting the team but in reality you just hurting it. you are the meaning of the word SHEEP,BAAAHHHHH.
RT
In down times, the grass will always be greener on the other side.
I think Moss is a major threat to defenses and should remain a starter. The fact that he is a selfish individual can't be a surprise to anyone. I think he'll step it up. Deep down, he wants to succeed, if not on a team level, definitely on a personal level.
On the other side, starting Whitted is an obvious mistake... no hindsight needed. He is small relative to "today's" prototypical receiver and his skills are too similar to Moss to be effective (i.e., outside threat).
Curry is the obvious choice, but may not be 100%, therefore, should be protected against further injury. That leaves Morant as a better #2 choice than Whitted. He is big and seems to have good hands. Warning: some learning curve may apply.
NY Raider Fan.
Good points, NY Raider Fan. However, I'm wondering why you left Porter out of the equation? Is his insubordination really worse than Moss's?
Porter could just as easily be described as a selfish individual who wants to succeed on a personal level.
I guess what I'm trying to do here, in addition to considering solutions (such as replacing Whitted with Morant, as you suggest), is to discern what Shell's plan/vision is with the current receivers setup. I want to give him the benefit of the doubt, but it just seems so weird and inconsistent to me.
P.S. I will add that if Moss wants to succeed on a personal level, he might want to stop jogging his routes and, as a result, missing big grabs, such as the long ball against the Browns that went past his fingertips.
NY Raider Fan:
I think the Raiders have only drafted two QBs in the fist round, Wilson and Marinovich. They don't like using a first round pick on a QB because they feel that a QB takes too long to develope. I knew the Raiders would not draft a QB with their first pick last year. And even if they get the first pick in the next draft, they will not draft Quinn. They are more likely going to trade the pick.
The Raiders always prefer to use their first pick on a player who can make an immediate impact. They drafted Marinovich because they thought he'd be able to start his first year. When they did start him, he was actually pretty good, but he got caught smoking weed - he couldn't and wouldn't stop smoking weed - and then he was gone.
anonymous (with marbles too small for an identifier):
Does your mother know that you're playing on the internet again?
RT
It's tough to understand the kindergarten relationship between Porter and Shell, so I thought I'd just respond with what appear to be viable options.
Because of their selfishness, I'm not sure Porter and Moss are a good combination. That's been my opinion since the Raiders traded for Moss. I thought we had enough depth at WR at that time, and could have made better use of the draft pick and LB we gave up.
And, who knows if the "Porter problem" even exists right now without Moss on the team. Porter, and his infinite ego just want to be "the man." Without Moss, he's almost have to be.
Personally, I'd like to see Porter activated THIS WEEK and light up the Donkeys like we know he can!!!
NY Raider Fan.
If it was up to me (which of course it is not) I would start Moss and Porter with a heavy dose of 3 WR sets that include Curry. These are our 3 best receivers, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. All 3 are being paid huge sums of $ to perform. If we want to get Morant some valuable experience, fine. Rotate him in for Porter or Curry for some meaninful snaps.
Regardless of the distractions, media hyperbole, egos, and selfishness of Moss/Porter, it is up to Shell to 'manage' his personnel AND put the players on the field that will give the team the best chance to win.
I think that Davis has likely asked Shell not to play Porter until after the trade deadline. If Porter is injured, by NFL rule he can't be traded until the injury is healed. After the deadline it won't matter, but that means no Porter until October 22.
The more I think about Moss, the more I think he's a major problem. I'd argue that the Raiders could have won the last two games with complete efforts by Moss. But I'm not sure what you do about all of that. Usually teams only have one prima dona to deal with. The Raiders have two at the same position.
I think if I were Shell, and I'm not, I would maintain the status quo until next Tuesday, and then figure out how to line-up the rest of the season and beyond. Trades often don't occur until the night of the deadline. Trades will be made depending on injuries through this coming weekend.
I hear you, NY Raider!
Calico Jack, I agree. You have described a starting lineup, and a management approach, that is consistent and logical.
Any thing less is a subversion of the "win now" approach, is it not?
And if we're not going to go all out with a "win now" approach, we should implement an approach that best helps us win later. And at this point, the tandem of Moss and Whitted doesn't fit that bill.
I think if I were Al Davis, I'd be working Matt Millen hard over the phone to see if he'd give up 2 first round draft choices for both Moss and Porter. Then Randy would get his wish for a trade, and Jerry would get his chance to play for Martz with the winless Lions.
The Raiders' first round pick is likely to be high, and the Lions' nearly as high or even higher - even with the addition of Porter and Moss.
Ah, well... Matt ain't much of a GM, but I know he's not that stupid.
"Kevin said...
Howie Long had this trick he did with his arm to get leverage –– big fucking deal."
You make it sound like the guy based a 13 year Hall of Fame career on a parlour trick. Could he pull a quarter from behind the tackle's ear too?
Hah!
On a side note, if you haven't seen it, check out the NFL films segment on Howie Long (it's on the Raiders Super Bowl compilation DVD). His speed, ferocity and execution are still something to behold.
Raider Take:
I remember seeing Long chase Elway down from behind when Elway had a fifteen yard head start. But one of the best things I remember about Long down in LA was that he was a Raider through and through. He didn't go all "Hollywood" like several of the other players did. Even though Long had the looks to go Hollywood.
There were few better.
Raider take said it exactly,
trying to discern what the plan is. Thats the reason why the raiders get so much flak from the media, so called experts and even ex players. Because no one with any common sense can "discern" what the hell they are trying to do. Are we trying to win now, or are we trying to set up and evaluate for the future? That is what is really pissing me off. I have been a raider fan my whole life and I cant even figure out what the f*** is going on. Art says he plays the players that give the team the best chance to win. Well, it seems that every one on the planet including his own players doesnt think he is doing that except maybe Al. Art says he has 95% of his team with him on his side. Well thats great! He has all of special teams and the offensive line. You dont need 95% of your team. You only need 5% of your team. It just better be that the 5% that you have is the top 5% of the talent on your team. Do you think that Bill Walsh, really cared if the 3rd string takle believed in his systom, or that Jerry Rice, Joe Montana, Roger Craig, Ronnie Lott believed in it. Take any other successful coach and you can apply the same thing. Jimmy Johnson with the Cowbows, Bill Parcells with the Giants. A coach doesnt lose the team he looses his leaders and top talent.
I think there are two different issues being addressed with the receivers. The only difference between Porter and Moss is the disrespect shown by Porter from the time Art became coach. Based on the comments he has made since then it seems he has done nothing to rectify the situation. So, for the long term good of the team, to change the culture and let everyone know what is expected, Porter sits. I can’t disagree with that, regardless of how much talent Porter has and how much he can help the team.
Moss on the other hand was positive throughout the preseason. Locker room clips show him exhorting the team, and he pumped up the fans at the pre-season Raider Celebration. It’s been his performance during games that has been lacking, declining since the first game of the season.
I don’t understand why they traded Gabriel at the time they did. I can understand why they are starting Whitted now. Figure they planned on taking their time with Curry, and with Gabriel gone that leaves Whitted as the only vet – he probably makes fewer mistakes than the young guys, is where he should be, which is important when your starter is new to the team and the backup is basically a rookie. But the passing game would have had more opportunity for success with Gabriel out there. He could have been traded next year if they really felt he wasn’t a long term asset.
Anyways, at this point you’ve got to keep the guys on the field that will help Walter out the most. At 0-2 you can work around Whitted, but at 0-4 it’s time to try out the young guys. Let Morant grow with Walter, and increase Curry’s time in the slot. Moss stays until the offseason – hopefully we get some value for him.
I’d get with Millen and see if he will deal Roy Williams for Porter. Talent-wise even, but Porter being more experienced, and at this point healthier, he might go for it. Or failing that, see if Green Bay, Chicago, or some other offensively challenged team will offer up a defensive lineman that we can use this year.
Bama7
Great posts. I can't remember a year like this. Even in '97 with Jeff George and a 4-12 team I still somehow found the games interesting. Now I have no interest whatsoever. We are truly terrible. Al's system has decayed to absolute dogsh$%. And, alas, it gets worse. We are about to take our horrid offense into Denver to play a defense that has given up ONE TD all year to four pretty good teams. ONE TD!!!!!! And here comes Tom Walsh, Andrew Walter and Lamont Jordan. I make no joke when I say we may make headlines the next day for losing in some never before seen fashion like 74-0. You think if the shoe was on the other foot and we were really good and they were THIS lousy we wouldn't try to humiliate them at home? How iwll we possibly score? I have watched and pulled passionately for my Raidahs for 33 years but I fear this weekend could be the absolute worse game in our history. How are we going to score? How? Anyone turning their lonely eyes to Tom Walsh? Ha! And this Walter kid I just do not see him being a good nfl QB. Arizona State has a pretty good system and is in a league that values offensive firepower over defensive play. I think he was a product of his sytem. I hope I'm wrong but he just doesn't seem to be any long term solution. He has the worst QB rating of any starter in the league.
I know they have little left in their tanks but Kurt Warner and Culpepper are both extremely alinated from their respective clubs. I would have a glimmer of hope if we could get one of them before the deadline. Why? Because they were both once winners and they both KNOW how to audible, and as dire as our team seems right now, I believe in my heart that a smart qb that knows how to audible could create some bread and butter efficiency with Moss, Porter and Curry. No CB in the league can stop those three from getting 20 five yard passes a game. And that kind of nickle and dime stuff opens up a host of things. We need someone that can audible out of Tom Walsh's plays! Walter is too young and not talented enough. Tui and Brooks can't audible.
Wish list for next year:
-- a QB that can audible.
--Bing to take over SS, Huff to move to FS where he would be a serious pain in the ass for opposing teams.
-- an OLB to compliment Morrison and Howard. A tough, physical field general, like a Donnie Edwards.
-- A well-rounded DE. A stud that can play both run and pass defense. We have both Burgess and JOhnstone that are built for the same thing: harassing a team that passing and playing from behind, which we have not had the luxury of experiencing. Brayton was just Al's lame attempt to recreate Hendricks. Brayton is, at best, a second stringer.
-- A physical RB that hits the hole hard. Peterson from the sooners? Kenny Irons of Auburn is the type as well. Lamont "dance around for a hole, and give a great locker speech" is not.
-- A fullback. Shottenheimer's success is in large part due to two underrated players: Tony Richardson at KC and Lorenzo "bulldozer" Neal in San Diego. Yet to Al it is not important.
-- A real OC.
-- An HC. I looked up to Art as a kid, but it is do or die time. Art, get rid of this clown or you yourself leave.
Cochise said, "trying to discern what the plan is. Thats the reason why the raiders get so much flak from the media, so called experts and even ex players. Because no one with any common sense can "discern" what the hell they are trying to do."
the raiders front office and coaches are so freaking smart that they can't even discern what the hell they are trying to do!
To RT's question about benching/not benching Moss. I disagree with the sentiment that Moss gives us the best chance of winning because he doesn't block (on top of not running routes, and dropping passes from Walters). Like you though, I do not understand not benching him for his attitude, and benching Porter for his. Porter and Moss together on the field are a deadly combination for Walters. If you are going to bench Porter, at least make the #2 WR worthy of the spot, like BUCHANON!
My biggest problem with the Raiders is this: they develope the young guys in practice, learning the playbook, etc. That is fine, because young players need that too. But, they do not give them on the field/game experience. They have to prove that they will work hard in the practice squad before getting a sniff of even suiting up for a game. Again, not a bad idea.
But where is the balance? You need a balance of both. Whitted is the #2 guy because he's a hard veteran worker, but that doesn't make you a good player. Morant is a better player, but he doesn't have as many years in the league as Whitted. Curry would be #2 if he could stay healthy for a week.
This is why they do not draft young QB's in the first round.
Blandarocked, Wilson and Marinovich were first round picks but were not the only ones. Roman Gabriel and Eldridge Dickey were the other ones. So a total of 4 QB's drafted in the first round by the Raiders, and look what they did for the Raiders. Nothing! The only solid pick at QB of the 4 mentioned that had strong potential was Roman Gabriel, and he flopped worse than Heath Shuler.
Sorry, but this is going to be long, so get a cup of coffee. Anonymous, take a pill.
One of the things that brought me to Raider Take was RT's knowledge that there wasn't much real information to be found in the local and national sports media. Facts are made up, conventional wisdom (with no foundation) is repeated endlessly, and rumors are traded like the Holy Grail. I'm likely going to get flamed for this, but it seems to me that too many in the Raider Nation, distressed about the current realities of the Raiders, are drinking the Kool Aide.
It seems to me that all of this started when a Raider blogger warned us all that the coaching crew, fired by Davis at the end of the 1994 season, was using an archaic offensive playbook, and that both Tim Brown and Jeff Hostetler had complained about it at the time. The local and national media played this up further by dwelling on the fact that Art Shell had not been an HC since, and Tom Walsh was most recently running a bed & breakfast. Add to this the plain difficulties of the Raider offense this season, and most of Raider Nation seems to have concluded that everything here is attributable to Art Shell and Tom Walsh, with a little Al Davis senility thrown in on the side. I don't believe that you can fairly call Shell responsible for the Raiders woes since the team has only 13 wins to show over the last three years.
I've learned, over many seasons, how to read the press for information that is real, and information which is made-up or out of context. Of the things I've learned during the pre and early season this year are these. The only person I know of who has actually seen the Raider playbook and reported on it says that the playbook is really no different than any other in the league with the exception that the names of the plays are longer. This same person had conversations with Tom Walsh, who appeared to have extremely detailed knowledge of the current DCs in the league. Walsh understood their tendencies and their styles of defense. While many criticized the Raider offensive plans in their first two games, I saw no plan implemented because of the poor quality of play on the field. While many criticized the too small number of running plays, I felt that the lack of time the Raiders had the ball had something to do with that. You don't get a handle on how much a team relies on the run by merely counting the number of running plays. You have to look at the run/pass ratio, and if your team is two scores down, you are naturally going to throw more passes.
Of all of the complaints I've heard there are only a few which I don't feel are fairly easily explained.
The 1994 season: The Raiders went 9-7. After four games before their bye, the Raiders were 1-3. Shell led them 8-4 the rest of the way. The only thing that kept the Raiders out of the playoffs was the week 17 loss to KC. The 1994 offense had very mediocre personnel. There were only three decent offensive linemen (Wisniewski, Don Mosbar, and Max Montoya), and one of these (Montoya) was at the very end of his career. The Raiders had no running game. Their every down ball carrier (Harvey Williams) never rushed for 1000 yards in his career. After Tim Brown, in the WR corps, there was Rocket Ishmail (a league-wide disappointment) and Darryl Hobbs who lasted only a few years in the NFL. They also had the great James Jett and Alexander Wright (who?). Their TEs were Andrew Glover (better known for his long snapping ability) and Jamie Williams (who?). Yes, Tim Brown, who was always more suited to the West Coast offense, and Jeff Hostetler, who never had the arm or accuracy with the deep ball, complained about the offense. For one thing, Jeff couldn't get the time in the pocket required for a deep pass. But that's because, with only three decent OLs, the Raiders couldn't block. Brown talks about how Hostetler used to audible away from Walsh's calls. Of course. The Sid Gilman offense encourages audibles, and can't function without them being called effectively. That is largely why the system has fallen out of favor, because very few QBs, these days, know how to call their own plays. One of the early articles from training camp this year discussed Walsh working specifically with the QBs, teaching them how to change his plays, and how to improvise should plays break down.
I've heard people talk about the distractions on the team in 1994. Again, of course. They were in their last year in LA, and preparing to move the next year. But, by and large, the reason that the offense wasn't as effective as it had been in previous years was because there was no reason for the opposing defenses to bite on play action (nobody worried too much about Williams 3.5 yards per carry). There was no real deep threat as Ishmail was hit and miss, and Hostetler didn't have a deep ball arm. With only three effective OLs, blitz packages were an easy call. Harvey Williams wasn't much of a pass threat, and the Raider TE was the teams best long snapper (not receiver/blocker). With all of these issues, that the Raiders post season hopes came down to one season ending game, was fairly remarkable. A fair view of these issues leads one to understand why Al Davis says that he was wrong to fire Shell after 1994.
Brown and Hostetler reportedly told Al Davis that the personnel was fine, that the problem was that Shell was an archaic coach. Brown and Hostetler asked Davis to appoint Mike White, who would institute the modern West Coast style to the Raider offense. Mike White led pretty much the same Raiders to 8-8, and then 7-9 (the Raiders started the second White year with Billy Joe Hobert under center).
The problems that we started the season with are improving. Shell reshuffled the OL and drafted two linemen who look good in their future. Boothe reportedly plays like a veteran, and McQ will eventually supplant Walker at RT. With all of their problems early, they are beginning to settle down, and play like a unit. Art Shell carefully explained to us in the preseason that they wouldn't likely gel until mid season. As they have gotten better, the running game is back, and teams are beginning to bite on the play action. Walter is getting more time to survey the field from the pocket. The Raiders are getting to the line of scrimmage fast enough where Walter has the time to audiblize as he's been taught to do by Walsh - and this was the reason for the TD pass to Moss at the end of the first half against SF. At this point, the only failing grade I think I can fairly give Shell is in his ability to get out the red flag. For the short term, I'll forgive him that one, as the replay rule was not around in 1994. Gruden had his own troubles (I hope you'll remember) as the rule was developed under his Raider watch.
My overall feeling is, give this team support and they will win more games than they lose in the second half of the season. And they will build on that next year.
Porter: I don't get it why nobody seems to understand that the Raiders are not currently doing well financially. The OFMC has grossly mismanaged ticket sales for 10 years. A lack of sell-outs leads to a significant loss of TV revenues. A lack of incoming funds means that the Raiders will have trouble coming up with the bonus coin to attract the best players. The Raiders simply can't afford to lose Porter's bonus money, and they want it paid back if a trade occurs. They can't trade Porter if he's injured, so Porter sits until the trade deadline passes. I don't see why this is so difficult to understand.
Whitted: He's simply the most experienced right now, while the other receivers are starting to get more playing time. Curry has had two injuries, both of which would end a lesser man's career. But Curry is back after only missing most of one season. Curry is simply the best WR the Raiders have developed since Tim Brown (I think Curry will be better than Brown, and he is better than Porter), so they are going to use him sparingly while Curry gets as strong as possible.
Gabriel: This is the tough one, but I think the answer may lie here. First, the Raiders have been looking to trade Gabriel for over a year. Second, the only reason we are led to believe that Gabriel was traded for a "5th Round" draft choice is because the media has again traded this RUMOR like the Holy Grail. The draft choice is publicly listed as an "undisclosed draft choice." Generally the reason that traded draft picks are listed as undisclosed is because there is some condition attached to them. My feeling is that a 5th Round pick is the worst that the Raiders will get on this trade. If Gabriel achieves a certain number of starts, or if he obtains certain stats, the value of that pick will increase. For instance, if Gabriel starts more than half of the Pats games, the Raiders will get a number 3 or 4 pick. If he gains more than a 1000 yards, the Raiders will get a 2 pick, etc. If this is true, Davis likely considered that Gabriel would be going to a team in contention, increasing the probability that the Raiders will acquire a better pick than 5th Round. And since the season was just about to begin at the time of the trade, I suspect that Davis felt he was likely to get more from a team with an urgent need at the start of the season than from a team in the off season. The Pats obviously didn't want Porter.
So, flame away folks, and then we can go back to discussing how the Raiders are the dumbest team in sports, that the team should be sold, Davis executed, and burning Shell and Walsh as witches.
Been out of town so its taken awhile to get caught up on all the takes...
Agree with the guys saying Walter needs to play to have the chance to take the job. He has the physical skills, just needs experience. This is the week JP gets off the bench, if Coach Walsh watched any Raider games played 01-05. He's made Champ Bailey look bad on many occasions....we'll see
The horse is dead, but we have kicked it, slashed it, gutted and burned it into compleat oblivian and for what purpose, because we used to love that horse???? Wooo!! What do we do to something we hate??
Myself I am Captain and as such I have a definate approach, in parable form..
There can be only one Captain of a Ship, and he is apointed by the Ships Owner, in this case the Owner of the RaidersShip-o-War is Al Davis and he has apointed Coach Shell as his Captian, as is his right. The Captain in turn apoints his SaillingMaster, and Brooks was apointed as such until his injury and than replaced by Walter. The SailingMaster in tern give comands as he is instructed by his Captain, not of his own free mind. It is the responsibility of the crew to obey those comands to the letter, without delay. Insabodination can not and will not be tolerated, as there can be only one Captain of a vessel and it is a life and death situation at sea, period!!! All who dare to chalenge the athority of the Captain shall be without delay lashed to the formast and floged as a warning to the entire crew and left there to bake in the sun for a period of time until it is the comand of the Captain to 'Cut Him Down And Let Him Return To His Duties".
What can be expected if this is not adheared to??? A ship sailing in circles or in irons and a mutany!!!
What we know: Porter was a mutanus dog who dared to challenge the athority of the Raiders Captain right from the start, as he was apointed!!!
Moss is a mouthy bastard who at times failes to carry out the comands of the SailingMaster and is lazy. But when he enters the Captains quarters, how does he react? WE DO NOT KNOW!!!
We can all dream about being Captain or SaillingMaster or Owner of the Ship we follow, but none of us can know what is being done on board a Ship on which we have never served..or one who served in the past can not know of the current situation, he is not onboard now....
Let us imagine we are at sea and there comes a very stiff breez which builds into a violent storm, the sea is a torrent and the ship is flondering, she is in Irons, as we hear the cry "Man The Life Boats" and what do you do??? A few follow the cry and launch the lifeboat and jump ship, while others like me "HOLD FAST" and stay on board!!! The life boat begains laughing, "You Fools, You Will All Parish And Drown With That Bitch" "Get Off Her While You Still Have A Chance" and alast some do hear the crys and also jump ship!! How this will end we do not know, but one of two ways!!
#1) The Ship sinks into the deep cold black oblivian of "DaveyJonesLocker" and the LifeBoatCrew is rescued and welcomed onboard a new vessel. Alway to remember how they forsoke their duties and abandond their fellow crew members in the heat of battle!!!
#2) The sea subsides and she is still aflot, in need of repair but is brought into port intact, the the remaining crew are all welcomed as the heros that they are while the LifeBoatCrew are tried for mutiny and abondaning their ship in time of need and hung by the neck until dead, and their bodies are left to dangle in the wind rotting as a warning to any future crew members who would follw their course of action..
The Question::: Where Are "YOU" ???
PantyRaider--HoldingFast
Ahoy, Captain and keeper of Morro Rock!
BlandaRocked, your optimism makes me feel like a pessimist by comparison! You make a lot of good points. I hope you are right.
I am optimistic, too, but I just wish I could sense a little more method to the madness of this season so far.
Bama7
Blandarocked: Good thing you weren't on the Titanic cuz you'd have been talking people in to getting back on the boat from the Atlantic water. Jeez! What the heck have you been watching? Are you paid by Al? Believe me, I wish all you said were true, but you have got be kidding me. You really lost me when you started defending the starting of Whitted. This guy shouldn't even be on the team, much less be starting... and you spinning that one makes me question ANY future thoughts you propose. And the Walter thing continues to amaze me. I read today that he has like a "5" as a fourth quarter QB rating. And yes, that is last in the nfl like his overall QB rating. But we don't have anyone else, so what'll we do? Also did any of you read Jimmy Johnson's comment about how he used to respect Al Davis, but that was a long time ago? He said Al's ways haven't worked in a long time. To me that's a damning verdict that we can't blame on a "anti-raider" media. Maybe one good thing will come of this year and that is Al will finally hand the keys over. I say we make amove for a QB before the deadline, doesn't look like Brooks wants to come back.
Bama7:
And what is the basis for all of Jimmy Johnson's inside knowledge of the Raiders? JJ knows absolutely nothing of the Raiders, their systems, or their policies. In fact, the only thing JJ has done since leaving the Cowboys is to coach Miami badly, and to become a worse TV analyst. Love his hair though!
Jim Jones, er, I mean Blandarocked,
In a way, I really admire that you can see a plan at the center of what otherwise appears to be one great big mess.
Hell, who knows, this team is so crazy, you might even be right.
Tell you what, I'm even willing to keep an open mind about what you said.
But, and here's the rub, but...
You can't expect to have it both ways. The Raiders are either improving, as you claim, or they are not.
So if, as you say, the "Raiders will win more games then they lose", the rest of the season, that's a projection of at least 7 wins. Ok, fair enough.
I guess we can expect them to win, say, 2 of their next 6 games.
That's not asking to much of an improving team, headed in the right direction, is it ??
It's one thing to show a few little signs of improvment against hapless,(though good enough to beat us), Cleveland, & SF. But it's another thing to show improvment, even to win no less, some of our upcoming games against, at Denver, home to Arizona, & Pitts., & at Seattle, home to Den, & at KC.
This will certainly be a great test to indicate our level of improvment.
Blanda, I for one hope you turn out to be correct, as improbable as it seems.
Unfortunately, I can not believe in this so called, improvment, until I see it with my own eyes, against opponents with a higher grade of talent then the last 2 weeks.
Raider00:
It's pretty easy to disagree when you misrepresent what I've said. I said that the team would win more games than it loses in the second half of the season.
If you can't see the improvement from the season opener, then you're chosing not too. I grant you that the defenses that the Raiders have faced the last two games weren't as good as the defenses in the first two games. But most of the teams they face the rest of the way won't have as good of defenses as the first two teams they faced either.
I can see the Raiders winning five games this year, and maybe better. I think they are going to continue to struggle through the first half of the season. But they are improving, and they will continue to improve. Nobody's making Super Bowl reservations here, 00. But if you expected that after winning 13 games over three seasons... well, who's kidding who?
Bama7: "First to Abandon Ship" at the first sign of distress, NO "HoldFastTheHelm" in your vocabulary, "Run, Run, the Sky is Falling" Cried "ChickLittle" as he cast his ass into the cold deep water, sinking ever so slowly toward that "DenseDarknessKnownToUsAll" "DaveyJonesLocker" "BeGoneWithYaMate" "NeverToUtterAnotherShamefulWord" "ConductUnbecoming-a-Raider" "FaithlesBreed" "MutainousDog" "YoHoHoAnd-a-Bottle-o-Rum" "A-PiratesLifeForMe"
PantyRaider--HoldingFastTheHelm!!
Bama7
I got the trade: We give Atlanta Porter for QB Schaub.
Blandarocked,
I apologize for putting the pressure of those extra 2 wins on your shoulders.
Good reason for your panic attack, I've seen the Raiders play too !!!
Raider00:
I'm the one arguing "Don't give up the ship," yet I'm the one in panic mode?
Sheese!
Blandarocked,
Look, there's really no need to argue.
The Raiders, as far as I know, are going to show up for their remaining 12 games.
You'll either be right, or you'll be wrong...We'll see
"Donkey-on-a-Stick" Thats what I want to see, may not happen but I am not willing to count a loss before the team departs for the game!!! Its not over til the fat lady sings, in this case the fat lady is "OldGrayMare" "NueterdWhiteStallian" and at the END of the game we can count a loss, not before a shot has been fired!!!
PantyRaider--HoldFast-NoPanic-Mode!
RT - If it makes you feel any better, I would describe you as a 'pragmatic optimist'. In my mind, I believe there are quite a few ways to describe the various Raider fans who stop by your site for your insightful takes.
There are the "pollyanna optimists" who refuse to see that the ship is leaking and needs some major repairs.
There are the the pragmatic optimists who like yourself (and I) are hopeful that the ship will get repaired in the near future.
There are the "chicken little pessimists" who don't see the ship getting fixed anytime soon.
And finally there are the "hater pessimists" who can't imagine under any circumstances for the ship to ever sail again. This camp also takes glee in the fact that the ship is on the rocks all busted up.
Blandarocked - You certainly are a prolific writer with some very interesting views. Have you thought about starting up your own blog? Regardless of whether or not all or even some of the other Raider fans agree with you, it would be interesting and thought provoking site. With the Raiders upcoming schedule and the way the team is playing, I would be shocked if the team won more than 2 total games this year. The best chance the team has is to win 2 of 3 from AZ, Hou, NYJ. I would be thrilled and pleasantly suprised if the Raiders won 5 or more games. At this point, regardless of wins and losses, I want to see the Raiders start to play competitive, sound football. I want to see improved play and steady progress from the younger players. Finally, the #1 item on my wish list is to get the sense that there is an achievable action play to get the ship in for repair.
Blanda"ROLLED"
Rolled over to the raider fans who will try to find any reason to "Spin" the facts to paint a masterpiece.
How many more catches and yards will Gabrial need to bring in before you say it was a "BAD" idea to let him go for a "fifth round" pick?
How many times do you need to see the total "LACK" of commitment to a 60 min. performance by our team?
All the lose lips and laughter on the sidelines shows the coaching staff has lost the team. Yes it it up to the coaches to inspire and buld a team atmosphear!
Its nice to see some positive spin on our team but "dont piss down my back and tell me its rainin". Our team today, is the result of poor draft choices and bad personal moves all tied up in a nice bow with the wrong OC.
It is what it has been made to be............DO NOT think that the team is on some slow climb to greatness with the current staff.
It aint goin to happen. Our hope is someone will come and rescue this team......a new Grudin or perhaps a New AL Davis...............
Raider Greg...........I am OUT
FACT: The Raiders are 13-39 since the Super Bowl season of 2002.
FACT: Jon Gruden is 0-4 this year, just like the Raiders.
Raider Greg, did you actually think that the Raiders were going to turn all that around in just 4 games? Give Art Shell a chance to clean things up, at least a season. It takes TIME, that 4 letter word to so many of us, to turn that losing around. Give the man a chance, and stop sounding like a Rome clone!
I want to be optimistic about the Raiders' season. I have seen improvements on the offensive side of the ball, in that we are moving it more effectively, and not going 3 and out every drive; we are getting some better pass coverage and run blocking.
All of this happened under a QB that should have started at the season's opener, Andrew Walter. Yes, he's a young QB; but all the Raiders' vets said he was the best QB of the 3 they had. Because he's young, I expect him to make mistakes, and 2 INT's are not really that big.
So what's killing us? Several things. We have the ability to score, that much has been proven the last 2 games; but we cannot build momentum off that in the second, and most important, half of the game. We've gone into halftime WITH the lead, and end with nothing to show for it.
I agree with Blandarocked when he said Walsh's playbook is no different than the rest of the league's. That is not the problem. There are a lot of teams that are doing well who are running a system we are trying to get to. The Donkeys are one, the Saints are another, the Steelers, the Eagles are a third, oh and don't forget about the Bears, and the Bengals. Just to name a few.
I've said it before, and it still applies here. My problem with Walsh is that he sticks to what he knows, without adjusting. Again, Blandarocked said it best, Hostettler made audibles, and Gannon made audibles; and we haven't had a QB since who had the ability to make audibles. But don't expect Walsh to teach that to Walter. Hoss and Gannon learned how to do that under different systems. Why is the audible so important? IT'S AN ADJUSTMENT TO SET UP THE PLAY THEY ORIGINALLY WANTED TO RUN!
This is my problem with Walsh's program, he does nothing to set up the play he wants to run. He didn't do it his first time around, and he's not doing it now. In fact, the QB who did call audibles under his first go round was replaced by Schroeder. Do you remember who that was? Steve Buerlien. Grant it, Steve didn't have the arm to "go deep" but he could have been a great QB, comparable to Gannon.
Since Walsh doesn't make adjustments to set up his "key" plays, the Raiders' offense is minimal in the second half, and the defense is on the field too long; and our team continues down the slippery-slope. This is why we are a winless 0-4!
Yes I've seen improvements in our play, but unless Walsh improves his play-calling; we will continue to struggle. But if he does, then Blandarocked will be smiling with the "I-told-you-so's", and I will be giving Walsh his due. Quite frankly, that will be a crow I won't mind eating either. My only question is to PantyRaider. Does that vie for "repairing the ship at bay?"
Bama7, first you were riding Volek's jock to come "save" Oakland for all our QB troubles, now you want who? Another back-up? Are you serious? If these guys are soooo good at QB, then why aren't they starting. Grant it, Schaub is back up to Vick, which is a step above KFC, but Vick is not a good QB either, as much as he's a good RB!
Who are you going to want to trade for next? Ty Detmer, oh I know, let's bring in Dante Culpepper now that he's flopped with the Dolphins. No, let's go after Sage Rosenfels of Houston. No, no, let's wait until Simms comes back to Tampa, and then trade Porter to the Bucs for Gradkowski. Idiot!
Anon..............
FACT: The moves made by the team, take the Gabral trade for a 5th round pick or the Jeff George signing are just foolish. Look as deep into your crystle ball as you wish.........All you will get is a head ache.
I do see some improvement in the play but not due to the fine coaching or great playmaking.........It is inconsistant effort that causes a team to skip like our Raiders.........I have no choice but to wait and watch the team week after week and look for any sign of life.........
This does not mean I need to agree with what has gone down............How many DB's have we taken in the last 10 picks...........8 yes 8 and we have needed many other choices.......DT or OL or what ever, you pick........
Just seems that our team has no confidance in the current staff and is not playing like they want to......they play like a team without a head...........
Say what you wish........I will do the same but DON"T even talk to me about how well managed our team is...............If so..........Send me a bag of what your smoken..............
Im out!
I'm with you Raider Greg, we are seeing the result of several bad drafts. It is going to take a while to clean it up, which is why I say to give Shell time. The haters watch the games and only see the losses. I see players wearing Silver & Black that are not quitting, are playing a full 60 minutes. It hasn't been pretty, but I can see progress. I still have hope. But you're still sounding like a Rome clone!
Hey Raider nation, thanks for Randy! Signed, your friends from Foxboro. Hahahahahahaha record.
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