One Postgame Take
1. We were outmatched. However, before this game, I said that the Raiders might surprise us. Well, they surprised me. They made a game of it, in hostile environs, against a team that was supposed to dominate. The issues were familiar (running, protecting, stupid penalties), but not nearly as numerous (except for the stupid penalties). I’m seeing definite progress. In the context of an inconsistent offensive line and an ineffective running game, Andrew Walter is playing quite well. But here’s why we weren’t going to win that game, regardless of Jordan’s fumble: Late in the 4th quarter, down by two scores, we completed a pass for a first down to Anderson. He hit the turf with 5:55 on the clock. We snapped the ball on the next play, a short run by Jordan, with 5:17 on the clock. Jordan hit the turf at the 27 yard line with 5:13 on the clock. We didn’t snap the next play, which resulted in the fumble, until the clock reached 4:35. In other words, it took us nearly 1.5 minutes to run two plays with the clock ticking, with the game on the line, down by two scores, with only two timeouts, against a team that has yielded one offensive touchdown the entire season. I’m sorry, but you don’t win this game without a sense of urgency in that circumstance. We had to score at least a touchdown and a field goal, and stop one Denver offensive series, within that time frame. That’s utterly impossible if you’re taking 1.5 minutes to run two simple plays. And that’s on the coaching.
posted by Raider Take at 10:14 PM
85 Comments:
The faidas are so pathetic that I almost feel sorry for you, I sincerely feel for the fans who aren't thugs or criminals, and I hope for you people that you will rid yourselves of the undesireable element that gives the raiders a bad rep. As for the trouble makers, they deserve this team that they see now. "faida nation" out Just learn from your mistakes baby.
Anon - None of us need your sympathy nor do we appreciate your half-baked, ignorant, spineless opinions. Your Raider-hating comments are unoriginal, predictable, and pointless.
RT - I agree with you about the lack of urgency and tempo displayed by the Raiders' in the 4th quarter drive. If we had a more experienced QB and a half decent OC, a no huddle offense would be used in such a scenario.
I think for the most part, our D showed good discipline, gap control, pass coverage, and tackling skills. Besides the big play to Walker, our D played a solid game. The D did a good job adjusting to Snake's bootleg action in the 2nd half of the game.
The other side to that coin was the offense. The offense showed poor discipline (6 pre-snap false starts) and a lack of adjustments at half.
The 2 turnovers were killers since they were inside Denver's 30 yard line.
I'm pissed off about all of the outside running plays that Walsh called which had absolutely no chance for positive yardage. Those play calls were totally inexcusable. Anyone with half a brain realizes that Denver has the fastest set of LBs in the league. How many negative run plays of Jordan were there?
Overall, I think A-Dub did fine. I like his poise and toughness. When given protection, he showed a nice touch and didn't force too many balls. It hurt having Fargas get injured early in the game. His straight line speed, big play potential and decisiveness would have aided our inept rushing attack.
I have been holding my judgement on Walsh up until tonight. I'm sorry but tonight's game clearly showed his stripes. I haven't given up on the Raiders but for the most part I don't expect much out of Walsh. His play calling in this game showed a lack of imagination, adjustments, and frankly, common sense.
When everyday fans like myself know that it makes ZERO sense to call outside running plays on 1st down against the Broncos D and a professional football 'coach' like Walsh doesn't, there is something very, very wrong. A-Dub's ability to audibile will be more important to his success than it should be. His growth and development will need to be in spite of Brokeback Walsh.
CJ
I'm pissed off at Walsh, period. The guy cannot call an offensive game if his life depended on it! Not only was there a lack of urgency in the 4th Quarter, there was just no will to win from the coaching staff. It's like they had already threw in the towel.
Again, no adjustments to the game plan. No adjustments to the what the Raiders were trying to do. Moss is useless, and Porter has been suspended by the Raiders for 4 games, and nobody knows why. I'm bent!
We can keep talking about "improvements" made on-field if we want to, to find hope or whatever; but it's time to win a game. The only improvement we have left, is to put together multiple scoring drives for 4 Quarters and come away with a W. That is going to take several things. Adjustments from the coaching. Better 4th Quarter clock management. A will to win!
I'll just say this. Never before had overcoming a mere 10 point deficit in the 2nd half seemed so unattainable. The way the offense played, it may have well been 100 points. This offense has problems executing nearly everything in the playbook. You can excuse Walter because of his inexperience and lack of protection, but he's about the only person. Horrible. Just horrible.
NY Raider Fan said...
The stupid false start penalties aside, I think the make-shift OL did a good job run and pass blocking. Makes me wonder, though, why have we've been starting rookies while veterans like Slaughter and Badger are riding the bench. Their play last night seems to make a hypocrite of Shell, who promised to put the best talent on the field (excluding Porter of course).
Clock management at the end of the game was absolutely painful to watch. Maybe Walter will gain poise with time, despite his coaches and play-calling.
CJ, it's a little weird hearing (or reading) a Raider fan refering to Plummer as "Snake." There's only one Snake, dude.
I agree that the running plays were obviously going nowhere. Part of that is because we've shown a pattern for weeks that we run on first down... EVERY TIME! Homer Simpson could call a defense against the Raiders on first downs.
Sorry, I still have to collect myself.
NY Raider Fan...
It was an embarassing evening for the Raiders.
We didnt make a game of it.
Shanny sat back and played Marty ball at 13-3 and conserved his teams energy aftr a tough MNF game against Baltimore.
How embarassing, Shanny isnt even bothered about running the score up anymore.
I still think this team can win with Shell, although there are some cracks showing in addition to the 0-5 record. But he has to get rid of Walsh to save himself. Sapp said it, the defense is staying together but they're not beating anyone with 3 points.
And how could he run on EVERY first down 15 straight times? How about some play action passes to build your young QB's confidence and make it easier on your offensive line? Constantly setting yourself up in second and long and third and long situations is asking for trouble in Denver. Is the play action pass on first down some kind of trick play to be saved up for the fourth quarter? Walsh is clearly out of his league.
Again, I'm a huge Shell fan but here's some advice for you Art. Let Walsh go. Your loyalty is admirable but don't blow your last chance at coaching success for the sake of your friendship with a man who is unqualified for such a critical position on your football team. Get a young coordinator who is eager to make his mark. Give your team a game plan that actually outsmarts the other team from time to time instead of relying on brute force that just isn't there. Run the offense at a tempo that will dictate to the defense, especially when it's late in the game. It's your best, and ultimately last, chance for coaching success.
NY Raider Fan - My bad. Check that "The D did a good job adjusting to Plummer's bootleg action in the 2nd half of the game."
Hey LaMONT JORDAN
If you happen to read this, keep your head up man. Our problems ran much deeper than a late fumble. You don't need to beat yourself up so badly you're going to give yourself a heart attack. Nice to see pasion from a guy who cares about winning though.
RT good post man. We still have a ways to go but things are slowly improving. Hopefully we can pull out our first win this week before we face the toughest part of the schedule. I think just winning one game will give a huge confidence boost and we can actually turn this thing around before the end. We need to go out on a positive note at least. Maybe we can knock a hated rival out of the playoffs like we did to the Chefs that one year.
Psycho
They key points have already been made, especially running every first down and the absence of a hurry up offense. Again, no screens. I saw progress in that we didn't punt late when we were down ten, an improvement over last week. If Slaughter can eliminate the penalties, I like him better at RT than Walker, especialy run blocking. Another plus, Whitted only dropped one; Anderson, none. Routt had another decent game. The makings of a strong D and STs are there. We still a lotta work on both the offensive scheme and play calling. Walter continues to improve...
NY Raider Fan said...
"The stupid false start penalties aside, I think the make-shift OL did a good job run and pass blocking."
I hope you are being sarcastic, because they had their asses handed to them. I don't know what game you were watching last night, but the Donkeys' defense was all over Walters all night!
Consider, after the Donkeys kicked the field goal to go up 10-0, the insuing drive by the Raiders. Touchback on the kick off. First down was an incomplete pass. Second down was a 2 yard run by Jordan. 3rd and 8 didn't get off due to a false start by Slaughter. 3rd and 13 resulted in a bull-rush by a defensive end, who beat Slaughter, for a 10 yard loss, on the Raiders 9.
Horrible play calling, horrible blocking execution, horrible football.
I've been accused of optimism on this site. I've predicted that the Raiders will win five games this season. I now think probably only two. Let me assure you it's not optimism, and right now I'm very pessimistic. However, I still appear to disagree with most. My takes?
1. Moss showed up, but I suspect that was more because he was auditioning for the trade deadline on Tuesday.
2. The problem wasn't Walsh, although I guess we're going to stay with that meme for the rest of the season. There was good reason for the sweeps to the week side, whether they were working or not. By continually drawing the LBs to that side, they were attempting to set up open receivers in the strong side flat. Those passing holes would open up wide with Moss drawing three DBs down field (and Jordan drawing or freezing the LBs on the play action sweep). Instead of going to the receiver in the flat, Walter would attempt to hit Moss in triple coverage. This group can't handle a hurry up offense. Maybe that's why Turner didn't run one.
2. The problem wasn't Shell, but I guess we're going to stay with that meme for the rest of the season. And the problem wasn't Al Davis, although I guess we're going to stay with that meme for the rest of the season.
3. The problem is that we have very underachieving players who completely lack any sense of discipline. Not all of them, but enough so that it makes it almost impossible to get anything to work. The breakdown began under Callahan, made worse under Turner, but blamed on Art Shell.
4. The media and the fans are, for the most part, letting the players off the hook, allowing them to collect a million plus per season, with little effort. There are issues that we know Art Shell has addressed, and addressed repeatedly - yet they pile up 13 penalties - FALSE STARTS AND HOLDING! Inexcusable!!!
5. This team will not start winning until the media loses interest in dancing on Al Davis' and Art Shell's graves, and the players are forced to deal with Art Shell without the excuses provided by the media. I mean, this team can't run a simple play action to the flat, and we're here complaining that Art Shell doesn't run a hurry up offense. How ridiculous is that?
BlandaRocked, good take, but I disagree with your contention that Walsh isn't a problem. I just posted the following take on Calico Jack's Silver & Black Forever, and I'm inspired to repeat it here:
By my count, and beginning with our first drive, we called run plays on 16 consecutive first downs before trying a pass on a first down. How's that for predictability?
Meanwhile, the Broncos opened the game with the following plays on first downs: pass, pass, run, pass, run, pass, run, pass.
In terms of offensive playcalling, we're still in elementary school.
I'm sure someone will say we needed to establish the run, that we didn't want to put pressure on our young QB, etc. but when you are playing one of the NFL's toughest defenses, you can't be utterly predictable in your playcalling. At least not if you want to score more than three points.
Also, it's hard to absolve the coaching for the team's inablity to hustle with less than five minutes left, two scores down, and still 30 yards out.
RT:
Here's why I disagree with you. As far as the fist down running plays - Walter is supposed to audiblize! (It's different for Denver because Shanahan scripts the first 15 plays.) The Raiders made a very big point regarding the run prior to the season. Shell told us, and Walsh told us, that we wanted to be able to run even when the D knew we were going to run it right down their throat. There were two points to the coaches telling the world that. One was that the coaches wanted to make it clear what they expected of the players, and the second was to insure that opposing teams were looking for the run on first down. Under the Gilman system, the QB should then identify the run defense, and audible to the play action. The surprise in the offense comes from the audible, not from the plays called in the booth.
As for the speed of play with time running out - it does take a lot of time for Walsh to get down from the booth, and onto the field. However, the Raiders have attempted to work out a solution for that by sending out the players in his stead. In a hurry up situation, the QB on the field is supposed to set the tempo. It is standard to work with the QB and the team in running that tempo, so I can't believe that the Raiders have never addressed it. I can believe that Walter lacked the experience and the leadership to line the players up quickly and get the play off. It is true that they weren't running a "no huddle" at that point. But at this point I think Art is very reluctant to run a no huddle. With 13 offside and holding penalties to that point, I'd be very reluctant to run it.
Running a no huddle is one thing. But letting 45 seconds elapse between executing a two-yard run and taking the next snap? Down two scores with less than five minutes to go? That's CRAZY PEOPLE behavior.
I've got to imagine that Walter
would have a little more spring in his step if, say, the OC was (as he should have been) screaming at him to get moving.
Here's the official sequence of events:
2-10-OAK 46 (6:02) 16-A.Walter pass deep middle to 83-C.Anderson to DEN 29 for 25 yards (24-C.Bailey).
1-10-DEN 29(5:17) 34-L.Jordan right guard to DEN 27 for 2 yards
2-8-DEN 27 (4:35) 16-A.Walter pass short left to 34-L.Jordan to DEN 27 for no gain (52-I.Gold). FUMBLES
Blandarocked -
To suggest that the Raiders are incapable of running a hurry up offense is a sad commentary on our players and coaching staff. My local high school team runs a hurry up offense.
I totally disagree with your second point.
(a) You don't run sweeps against the Broncos. That is just dumb play calling. The Broncos have the fastest set of LB's in the entire league. Why call a play that is doomed for failure?
(b) Jordan isn't fast enough to get around the corner
(c) it creates negative yardage plays
(d) it sets up 2nd and long
(e) you don't need to run a sweep to set up the type of play you mentioned. Bottom Line: Play action pass only works when your rushing attack is perceived as a threat. If you are running sweeps that lose 2 or 3 yards, how is that helping set up play action pass? Ridiculous.
Yes, I agree it is important to run plays that set up other plays BUT you run plays that have a chance for success to set up other plays. The outside runs by Jordan had ZERO chance for success. It is FAR more important to set up Walter with 2nd and 3rd downs that are manageable. Here's a novel idea: How about a 7-10 yard pass play on 1st down? Brilliant!
Walsh's predictable 1st down calling and lack of common sense is a major detriment to any offensive success.
Calico:
First, I disagree that you don't run plays that you know won't get you yards, but will give you situations which you desire. MY old high school used to do that, and do it quite effectively. If you can pull the LBs away from the strong side flat, and with Moss drawing virtually all of the DBs deep - you ought to be able to pick up a first down even if you have 15 yards to go. It's like the sacrafice of a piece in chess, by giving up something you find advantage somewhere else. What we have here is a QB without the requisite knowledge and experience to take advantage. This is why Walter failed to take the job away from Brooks in the pre season.
Do not underestimate the importance of audible and improvisation in this system. With sound fundamentals, creativity by the team and heads up play can devistate oposing defenses. Walter is at least a full season away from being able to effectively run this offense.
NY Raider Fan said....
RN 75, I watched the same game and saw the same collapses. There were clearly breakdowns along the line, particularly stupid false start penalties, but this game seems like the first one -- against a good D -- that the Raiders have shown they are capable of creating a pocket for Walter to check down his receivers. Also, take a look at the difference in time of possession. I think the Raiders clocked over 31 minutes, despite the Donkeys running the ball all night long. Big difference from the previous games.
Now if Jordan would run north/south instead of east/west, a running attack might actually surface.
Bottom line, the poor offensive play-calling is making every facet of this team look worse than it really is.
It seems as though in the process of bringing this team back to prominence, the coaching staff has a bigger learning curve than the players. Question is how long can (or will) Al Davis wait for the coaches to catch up? Tom Walsh has to be on a short leash at this point.
NY Raider Fan.
One more thing about the inexperience of Walter. Under this system the first read is deep and you check down to the dump off man. However, on 2nd and 15, the object is to pick up at least half the yards on 2nd down. Walter continually, in this situation, went for the deep read (resulting in 3rd and 15) - which is Walter's mistake and not Walsh's. In this situation Walter should always be looking short or dump off unless he anticipates the deep man will be wide open.
blandarocked-
I understand your point about audibles, but when we come out in our base offense [2 wides, 2 backs] there are limited audibles when Denver is a] not blitzing and b]has 8 in the box. Our offense has a basic scheme problem. Now if we come out in 3 or 4 wides with a single back, then you have audible options that make sense. My point is that in our base offense, Walter has very few good options as far as audibles go
Blandarocked -
You are talking in circles again similar to your take on the Gabriel trade. You can try to spin it any way you want but common sense prevails 99.9 times out of a 100. Common sense says the following;
You don't need to purposely run a play that will put your team in a 2 and long or 3rd and long. This is ESPECIALLY true with an inexperienced QB. There are better alternatives. Why make Walter's situation more difficult than it needs to be?
Your comment "If you can pull the LBs away from the strong side flat, and with Moss drawing virtually all of the DBs deep - you ought to be able to pick up a first down even if you have 15 yards to go." is some more circular, unsound logic.
How does a 1st down, outside run that goes for a 2 or 3 yard loss pull the LBs away form the strong side for future plays? The Broncos LB flow to the ball regardless of down and distance.
Here here RT.
I totally agree with you about the lack of any urgency.
That is the biggest negative thing I took away from this game, which is saying something considering the stupid penalties.
And that IS all about the coaching (Walsh).
Blanda Rocked:
If the players are the undisciplined and cannot excute fundamental football that is a reflection of coaching! It is the coaches job to design systems that create success. All of the players on the Raiders are professional football players, some with loads of talent. The coaches must be able to make players buy into their system or it will fail. This is a failure of the coach. It is their job to manage relations, instill discipline and manage the clock. Anything less is a failure of coaching.
Blandarocked said, "There was good reason for the sweeps to the week side, whether they were working or not. By continually drawing the LBs to that side, they were attempting to set up open receivers in the strong side flat."
Here's why I disagree with this statement, and why I blame Walsh for lack of play calling abilities.
These "sweeps" only work if you mix in a "PLAY ACTION PASS!"
Blandarocked also said, "Walter is supposed to audiblize!" Audibles come with experience and recognizing the defensive scheme. I played Q in high school, and know this. The problem is when you have an inexperienced Q, this is where the coach is suppose to grab your @$$, and show you the schemes, and help you recognize what to audible. Neither Coach Shell, nor Walsh has done this for Walter. Trial by fire, is what he's going through. Not a bad thing sometimes, but at the expense of the team as a whole, it is. I agree with that you cannot under-estimate the audible and improvision, it is what made Gannon so great for us. But with a young Q at the helm, when it comes to recognizing the need for that, it falls on the shoulders of the coaching staff to help the young Q develop that. There were several times Walter called an audible at the line, but the line couldn't stop the bull-rush and blitzes forcing Walter to throw earlier, or throw it away.
Bottom line, yes Walter needs to mix it up. But the coaching staff needs to help him recognize this. I blame the coaching for not developing their young Q.
NYRF-I agree with you about LaMont just lowering his shoulders and plowing through the lines N/S. He'd be more effective that way. Let Fargas do the fancy stuff. I think our O-line didn't do their jobs against SD and Baltimore either. You know it only gets worse. Next week we play an Arizona team, that always has a tough D. Then Pittsburgh, Seattle, and Denver again. At some point we have to punch them back right?
We can argue forever on what the Raiders should have in their playbook, but the fact is we don't know what is or isn't there, none of us have ever seen it.
My point is basically this. We've had three consecutive seasons of poorly played football and are well into the fourth.
Each time we've blamed it on the coach and/or Al Davis. Each coach has had success prior to working with these players. Each has either coached a Super Bowl team, or have been the HC (Callahan - HC Raiders, Turner - OC Dallas, and Shell - OL Atlanta). And then, of course, we all know that Al Davis has never had success in the NFL.
So tell me. At what point do we stop blaming the coaches and the owner, and start blaming the players?
Blandarocked -
There is plenty of blame to go around. The players, coaches, and owner all should be held accountable.
I think the main point that most of us have been trying to make, but you don't seem to quite grasp, is that it is Walsh's primary responsibility to put Walter in the best situation to succeed. This is done by tailoring (and adjusting)his offensive game plan and playcalling to fit the Raiders personnel.
So this is what we've come to. We're now stating that this team is incapable of running a hurry up offense (although I'm not necessarily disgreeing with Blandarocked here).
Just step back and think about that for a second. This is basically saying that this team is incapable of executing some of the most fundamental aspects of football.
This does bring me to a point that I do disagree with Blandarocked on...coaching. If your team, as a whole, is incapable of execution, who do you blame? I find it hard to believe that this team is filled with dozens of incompetent people who suddenly forgot how to play after leaving college.
Sure, Art Shell has only been on the job six weeks, but to say that this team can't run a simple hurry up offense speaks volumes. Sure Norv Turner's team couldn't do it either. In fact, the whole team started to fall apart after Gruden left.
So if you've got a lot a players who can't play and a bunch of coaches who can't coach them, exactly where do we place the blame?
As much as most people here hate to hear this, Al Davis needs to shoulder the responsibility for this mess. I think he came across a gem with Gruden who was able to take a group of decent players and mold them into a cohesive unit. Once he left town, things started to fall apart and the team is now in an 0-5 pile of rubble to start the 2006 season.
Maybe Art Shell needs to be given more time. Or maybe we just have to grips with the fact that Hall of Fame players do not necessarily make Hall of Fame coaches. Or maybe, more importantly, Al Davis needs to come to grips with it.
Calico and Doobie:
As Doobie says, he can't understand how players suddenly forget how to play after college. What I can't understand is how Super Bowl coaches suddenly forget how to coach after... well, coaching.
I am not trying to make the point that the players are not a talented group. What I'm proposing here, which nobody else seems to grasp, is that these players have not been disciplined since Jon Gruden. They have no discipline. Is this Shell's fault? Not when they haven't shown discipline in the previous three years. I've watched Shell just about kill himself trying to get these guys to step up to the plate.
When the team can't have a productive 90 minute walk through on Friday afternoon, and Shell says, "No - we're going to stay here until we get it right!" Then the players still don't get it right on game day and, in fact, revert to their prior mistakes. On top of that the players gripe because Shell holds them accountable. "What? Are we gonna be here for three hours?"
I've been known to put 75 hours into my job in a week. I get by. But these guys are making millions, and they gripe about being expected to perform at their job. Then the media lets them off the hook (and so do we) with - "It's Tom Walsh's fault!" I say horse hockey!
These players can't execute Walsh's offense? They couldn't execute Callahan's offense! They couldn't execute Turner's offense. Well, the next poster should tell me who's offense they CAN execute? Bellermine High School's? The Sid Gilman offense is very, very simple. The complexity is on the QBs shoulder's because he has to recognize defenses and audiblize. That's a must. And that is why Walter is still a second teamer, and why he will be when Brooks is healthy. I haven't seen that Brooks is going to be a great deal better, but sometimes it looks like Walter just isn't paying attention.
And neither is the rest of the team. But that's not their fault - because it's Walsh's, Shell's, and Davis' fault.
I agree folks that it's tougher to call out the players because we don't know for certain what their assignments are. But it's time we started calling out the players.
I actually came away from this game feeling upbeat.
I know, I know, we lost again, and to Donkeys again, but I was just keeping a close eye on young Qb, Andrew Walter.
I thought he did rather well, considering playing a top defense, in their yard, in prime time, with really not much help from his offensive teammates, and coaches.
From where I viewed, I was very impressed by his poise, arm strength, good touch, calm feet, and overall ability.
It's no secret to anyone at this point that the Raiders will be lucky to win even one game this year. But if at the end of this season, we can say that at least they developed a Qb, I for one will consider the rebuilding to be off to a great start.
Most of Walter's mates on offense are garbage, we should understand this by now.
The only hope is to build around this very talented young Qb.
It will take a complete overhaul of the offense. No more denial.
get rid of the garbage, or suffer the same crap performance next season.
And don't ignore the defense either. While they've been solid for the most part, they could still use the addition of a couple of playmakers.
Blandarocked,
If Aaron Brooks is made starter again when he returns, we might as well write off next yr as well.
It is pointless for Brooks to play. For what ? The pride of winning 3 games instead of 2 !!! POINTLESS.
The only hope the Raiders have for next season, is letting Walter stay in as starter, and gain experience.
NY Raider Fan said...
Hummm... if the coaches don't coach well, the players can't perform well; but if the player's don't perform well, the coaches probably didn't coach well.
Yikes! I'm a little confused.
Maybe the answer is as simple as looking at each side of the ball separately. I think we can all agree that the defensive unit looks competitive, and they're able to make game-time adjustments. Credit the coaches and the players.
On the other hand, the offense has been unable to respond to even the simplest of assignments, with repeated false starts, another fumbled center exchange, sporadic blocking, etc. It's hard to say if it's player-related or coaching. Callahan did say that this was the "dumbest team in football." Maybe he was right. I know a lot of you agreed with that assessment when he said it... I know I did. No, I think it's a stalemate. Credit the coaches and the players for their apparent incompetence.
At this point, I'm more confident that an adequate player base exists on offense than I am that an adequate coaching base exists.
Solution: Have a radio constest each week with the winner to be OC for the week. Little chance the offense would be so predictable as to run on 16 consective 1st downs.
NY Raider Fan.
Raider00:
I agree with you in regard to whether Walter should finish the season. However, if Brooks does become the starter when healthy, I think that will signal that they've given up on Walter, and they will go back to free agency for a replacement in the off season.
My feeling is that right now Walter still shows the potential. Especially since they're starting him at least a year earlier than they wanted to. He certainly has the physical tools, my concern is with the mental tools.
However, what hasn't been said, that should be said, is that Brooks has been a class act in regard to helping Walter as much as he can.
And whatever anyone else can say about Shell's ability to coach, he's been a man's man. He has not publicly called out players in spite of everything that's being dumped on him. Even after suspending Porter, when asked to dish on Porter, Shell said that there are some things that are going to remain in house.
I'd ask you to harken back to the days of Bill Callahan - "this has got to be the dumbest team in America." Shell has asked his players to be accountable to him and to the team. Only we can ask the players to be accountable to us, and I think we should start.
I was thinking the same thing as you while watching also if Moss had run that route before the half at full speed he could have been in position to make the play or break it up till everyone puts in a full effort including the coaches from start to finish like running the no huddlethe last 6 min. or hustling every play or not getting numerous false starts we will not win it takes a complete effort to win a game and I know Art knows this cuz I can see it you can see it so he should.
Blandarocked,
Why would the Raiders even consider giving up on Walter after only one, less then full, season ?
I personally watched Eli Manning struggle through his entire first yr., but with the addition of only WR, Burress, and a couple of O-linemen, he was much improved in yr two.
The same can happen to Walter.
I want to see this kid play with a season under his belt, and surrounded by some real football players.
If the Raiders return to the "Grab a Qb off the garbage pile" thinking, what kind of rebuilding is that ?
Raider00:
I really don't think they'll give up on Walter, at least not yet. I think he'll finish out the season. If they do, though, it's likely because he's simply not getting it. Manning showed improvement all year long. And, thus far, so is Walter.
So on this issue, I think you and I are pretty close. With the exception of one thing. With the exception of one (Stabler), all of the Raiders best QBs have come off the "garbage pile."
Blandarocked,
Well, you're right about the "pile", when it's Plunkett, or Gannon.
But the pile also produced Hoss, George, KFC, and Brooks.
You're wrong, however, about E. Manning. I was at every game,(forgive me, I bleed Silver,& Black, but my bro-in-law has season tix), and most thought Manning had regressed with each game.
ForGottenPoints:::
Audibals have to be heard, did you see how much trouble A&W had trying to make an audible? By the time the players understood the clock was expired!!! All this as the Donks "D" was shifting and running at the "OL" to cause them to jump, which was ileagle last time I looked but no penilty was ever thrown against them, only against the "OL"...The "D" can not initiat movement to cause the "OL" to false-start, was not that a rule??? And the right side had 2 injuries early in the game so it was a make-shift-line, we have 2 or 3 rooky "OL"man playing here.. the penalties were on the right side all night...Have any of you ever been to DonkyStadium?? You can't hear shit 2 ft away!!!!!
Hurry up "O", how can you do that if you can not hear the QB, no stibility in the right side of the "OL", with a young QB who is learning everything in his 3rd NFL start??? When do the veterans step up and help the young QB?? The coaching may be there in practise but they don't play the damn game, how can the "O"cordinator help the QB on the field??
Play-Calling:: CoachShell wants to teach a system to this team not mold a system around the players where they dictate to him how to play football!! I can see the progress and so can some of you, it is learn to play the damn game the Raider way or get the hell off the damn field!! It is plug the players into the system who can play the system and we will find new players if the rest can't hang!!
PlayerAttitudes:: I saw players wanted to win and played hard, not like under Bugal where almost the entire team quit!! Lots of improvement, every week except the first 2 weeks, that was a disaster...
Left "OL" improved;
WR's improved and Moss goes over the middle, 5-for-90yds, less drops,
TE's-w-catches;
RB's with heart, Jordan should beat himself up, this is good to not forget the mistake and work harder;
"D" played very well with only minimal breakdown and shut the Donks down in the second half!! Don't buy into the shit that Shanon was taking it easy on us, that is absolute DonkyShit!!! He was worried about his Fake QB, no SNAKE in that bastard. Had a lead and was worried about a mistake that would let Shell's team back in the game.
CoachShell:: He is here to stay so try to get happy about it. There is more to this than what you are being told, he will be taking over the team for Al, that is why he was brought back and to reinstill the Raider way...Good move for me...I like it...
Pridictions:: The Raiders will win the next 2 home games and maybe the rest of their home games!!! If I am wrong you will all know it, but that is my take on the rest of the season....
PantyRaider--HoldingFastTheHelm-w-Hope!!
PantyRaider:
I think you're a breath of fresh air. I too have heard it told many times that Shell is here to restore Raider tradition to the team, and while Davis will hand down ownership inside the family, Art Shell has been selected to run it.
The thing about Shell that I know is that he thinks fast, but works slow and deliberate. When things really start to improve, the improvement will be solid and lasting.
Yes BlandaRocked, And it will always be the Raider way and that is what Al wants, needs and knows Art believe in.
PantyRaider
Time to watch the AZ MondayNight Game to see what the QB we skipped looks like as we play them next week.
Buchannon has been released from the Texans, do we need a battered and brused CB?? Ha! Ha! Just a JokeNote!!
PantyRaider
Just a few observations:
1) O-line pass blocked well (not great, but improved) vs. 4 man rush. Nice pockets, plenty of time to read and throw. Walter found the hot receiver a few times (which was a nice improvement) when Denver blitzed, but in general it became a fire drill when Denver brought it. Still need improvement there.
2) Moss gets the shortest arms I've ever seen in traffic. When John Lynch (don't get me wrong, a great player) get's up higher than Moss then something's wrong. It almost looks like Moss is just putting his arms out hoping the ball falls to him, instead of going up to the highest point and fighting for the ball.
3) Courtney Anderson: nice job making the catch, but it doesn't mean you have to fall down immediately. How many times did he make a catch, and then turn and fall without any contact? Still, an improvement just making the catch. Next step....YAC.
4) Sweeps and tosses. It's already been hammered on. It just doesn't make sense to continually run plays off tackle that are slow developing in nature against Denver. Do you see the way Denver LB's shoot the gaps as soon as they read run? That's why the misdirection play that went for 9 yards in the 2nd half worked....and that's why play action would have worked.....should have been called more.
5) Morrison whiffed big time in the 1st quarter on Plummer's scramble when he had him one on one. Huff also came up with air in an open field situation later in the game. Our open field tackling needs major work.
6) I thought the D-line played well (exlcuding the early problems against the bootleg). Did a good job of closing gaps against Denver's zone blocking. LB's played well, outside of the few open field miscues. Litle pressure bringing 4...but the secondary seemed to have it locked down (other than the Walker catch).
7) Antaje Hawthorne: thanks. That penalty was a great way to cap off the night. If we would have scored on the previous possession and it came down to getting the ball back, that play would have been the main topic of this blog.
It was a loss, but I thought this was an improvement. We beat the Vegas line for once this season....which is no victory, but it shows we're improving against what the "experts" who set lines thought we'd do in Denver.
I hope this isn't pouring salt into fresh wounds but ...
Leinart drove the Cardinals down the field in 2 of his 1st 3 possessions for TDs against arguably the best D in the league. No use wondering "what if" though.
By the way, here are the first, 1st down play calls. Keep in mind that some of these 1st downs were 1-15 or 1-20 due to penalties;
1. Jordan right guard for 4 yards
2. Jordan right tackle for 1 yard
3. Jordan left guard for -5 yards
4. Jordan left guard for 6 yards
5. Fargas right tackle for 6 yards
6. Jordan right tackle for 6 yards
7. Fargas up the middle for 3 yards
8. Jordan right tackle for 5 yards
9. Jordan right tackle for 5 yards
10 Jordan up the middle for 1 yard
11.Jordan right tackle for no gain
12.Jordan right guard for -1 yards
13.Jordan left end for -1 yards
14.Jordan right end for 2 yards
15.Jordan left guard for -2 yards
I'm sorry this playcalling is a complete joke. Predictable, no creativity, variety, or foresight.
PantyRaider: The way to run the hurry up offense in a loud stadium is done first and foremost by hustling in and out the huddle. Tempo and urgency are the mark of a good hurry up offense. To deal with the noise the QB calls 2 plays in the huddle. This is where Walsh would need to shorten the verbiage of the play calls and keep things simple. Of course the most important factor in effectively running the hurry up offense is to practice it Tues. through Friday.
Or was that Terdell Sands???
I can't remember now. I must have got too pissed off at the moment and lost focus.
Blanda "Rolled"
Again you come up with some SWEET Cool Aid. You must be the " Only " fan in the nation that thinks that "brokeback" Tom will bring our team to a stagering Two winns.
It is NOT the players as much as the plays....Give thease guys the correct palys on the correct downs and we will sustain a drive. "FACT"!
Poor coaching has taken the heart out of our team and the players see what needs to be done and are powerless to change this " Long Ball " offense of the 70's that "Obviously" fails under newer defenses.
If the players are given a chance to win.....from the coaches..........they will winn...............Thats it.........No Cool Aid.............its just the truth!
CalicoJack:
Yes I understand that but we are not all together yet, the right side "OL" was in trouble all night and the QB is in his 3rd start so a rooky and he has enough to learn with the "O" without also knowing the whole "2-min-drill" thing, I believe this will come in time but we don't have it now..one step at a time, although he was there last year he is learning a differant system this year... Shell knows how to teach this silent count and play calling thing so it will come..
MattLainert looked great in the first half, I am soooooo Sad we did not take him at #7, Huff may be very good for us but a safty is much easier to get than a QB the quality of Matt....the lefty style brings back such good memories of the SnakeAtack!!!!
RaiderGreg:
Did the 85 Bears run a vertical "O" with Jim McMaonn, or the Vicks with Culpepper-n-Moss, or the Bears-w-Grossman now? I think it is a personel thing and not an out-dated thing, you can mix many things in with it as differant teams do but the vertical passing/power running is not just an anciant art!!! Modern "D"s are formed to go against modern "O"s but does that mean that an old style "O" with the personel to run it can not come in today and be effective against the "D"??? When you spred out the "D" and streatch it deep the middle becomes open underneith, and the running gets to the second level, but you have to establish it first for it to work, it takes time to teach this and become consistant with it, CoachShell will spend the time!!! And the play-action and miss-direction stuff will work in with it.
Bro, its like Peace, just give Shell a chance!!!!
PantyRaider--WishingWeTookMatt!!!!
Calico,
Interesting stats, yes it is a complete joke. I haven't seen stats on how many play actions we run per game but I'll bet it's not a lot. I know in the first few games we ran one or two per. Seems to me like if you're going to run every single first down you can catch someone with a playaction on first down once in a while without ever establishing a run. Maybe Walsh is so highly intelligent that he's got this master plan to take advantage of this at exactly the right time to catapult us into a super bowl. Five losses later, uhhh I still think he's an idiot.
Psycho
One more note:
It is still my 11 player against your 11 players, regardless of the age of the system, if I have the personel to beat your personel we will be effective!!! If not, well it does not matter what system I run, you are going to kick my ass!!! Thats the only FACT I understand!!!
PantyRaider
PantyRaider:
I understand your points about the hurry-up offense but when you really break it down, your points are nothing more than lame ass excuses.
Point 1: "Yes I understand that but we are not all together yet, the right side "OL" was in trouble all night"
Reality: It shouldn't make a difference whether you have a rookie OL or 10 year veteran. These are paid professional football players. These paid professionals have been playing organized football that included hurry up offenses for at least 8+ years. Boothe, McQuistan, Slaughter's assignment is the same whether it is the 1st snap of the game or in a hurry up offense.
Point 2: "The QB is in his 3rd start so a rooky and he has enough to learn with the "O" without also knowing the whole "2-min-drill" thing"
Reality: Andrew Walter is more than capable of implementing a hurry up offense. There is no need to put in training wheels on his bike. He is a smart guy. See above about being a paid professional football player.
Point 3: "I believe this will come in time but we don't have it now..one step at a time, although he was there last year he is learning a differant system this year... Shell knows how to teach this silent count and play calling thing so it will come.."
Reality: A hurry up offense is a basic staple of every NFL team. F*&K waiting for this to come around. This should already be in place, no ifs, ands, or buts about it.
Bottom Line: Training camp and practices and meetings are suppose to be used to install, implement, and fine tune such a basic function of football as the hurry up offense.
Lowering our expectations for what our team should be capable of doing is insulting.
Hey, trade deadline isn't til Oct. 17th.
Al can scare up a deal by then.
What about Huff for Leinart ?
What's that, Cards hung up the phone.
No problem. Al will contact the Donks. Al's been whippin Shanahan for years, right ?
What about Huff for Cutler ?
Wait, what happened ? Disconnected.
Oh my.
Hate to be dripping with "I told you so", but...
You don't pick a safety, over a QB, when your team SUCKS.
Al, try to remember this in April.
Blandarocked, here is why I continue to blast the coaching staff. They are running the same damned failed system that was ran under Norv Turner. Pound the ball, pound the ball, pound the ball, throw long and deep, pound the ball, throw long and deep.
At least Turner mixed in a screen every blue moon, which is more than what Walsh is calling.
It is the concept of stupidity. If it doesn't work, then we must not be trying hard enough.
As a coach, you have to put your players in a position to be successful at what they do. Helping a young QB recognize the need for adjustments is the biggest key. Not just on what type of play, but blocking scheme, direction the play is going to develop, where the blitz, rush, or weakness is, and attack it!
Players are responsible for the False Starts, Holdings, Fumbles, running the routes and giving a damn (MOSS), catching, not throwing behind the receiver or the other team, making a clean transition from the snap.
But the management of the game plan falls directly on the shoulders of the coaching staff. We haven't lost 5 games due to talent on the field, as much as we've lost 5 games due to game plan management (or lack thereof) on the offensive side of the ball.
It's not a lack of execution on our part, as much as it is a lack of adjusting to execute better. When that happens, a lack of execution from the players happens because the defense knows what your running. Case in point the Super Bowl. The difference? We adjusted a little to at least get somewhat back in the game. Even though it was a little too late.
We saw with Callahan the next season, that too much adjusting is just as deterimental.
The wheels on the bus are still going round and round; we are just stuck in the mud spinning our wheels; thinking that maybe this time we will get some traction and roll out of it. Sometimes, you just have to be smarter than the mud, and lay down some 2x4's to make the traction.
Raider00, I don't think QB is our main problem now, as it was with KFC. I like Walter, I think he's going to be an excellent QB, under the right coaching. I think our problem offensively is O-line and RB. I say trade Porter to Tennessee for LenDale White. Or to the Bears for Thomas Jones or Cedric Benson. If we don't make a move, then when we have the first pick of the '07 Draft, the name that should be read better be "Adrian Peterson."
You want to know why meida people slam our coaching staff? Because they know the Raiders should be better! They know that we should be a playoff team year in and year out. They know that we have an incompetent coaching staff that knows nothing about development.
Blanda, re: your comment on Art Shell constantly running the drills and the players still not getting it right, no matter how long they're out on the field...
This goes back to what I said about Hall of Fame players do not necessarily make Hall of Fame coaches. If your coaching staff cannot adequately *teach* the players, then you can run your players out there until kingdome come and they still won't be able to execute plays properly. And this is a team that has gone against the grain and kept loyal assistants (Willie Brown, Biletnikoff, etc.) as opposed to letting new coaches bring in their own staff. This even goes back to when Shanahan tried to fire Flores' old staff (including Shell) to bring in his own people, only to have Al Davis un-fire them.
Although you have to admire the loyalty, there also needs to be an evaluation as to whether or not these people...who were once so great on the gridiron...can coach and teach players as well as they performed.
Unfortunately, one true indicator is market value and I don't think other teams in the league have been clamoring for the services of people on the current Raider staff to come and help coach their teams. Slater, perhaps (because he's new to this), but I think the other people (Biletnikoff, Brown, Walsh, Shell) have been around long enough for other teams to evaluate them and decide that they're not right for their team.
Again, Raider loyalty may play a part in that, but still...if an assistant or coach were so outstanding in his field, you'd hear rumblings in the media about how X team is courting X coach to come join their staff. You just don't hear that with Raiders coaches. And if they were wanted enough, that team would pay enough to break their loyalty.
True, these coaches may specialize in coaching "the Raider Way" which may limit their opportunities elsewhere but, still...are they *teaching* it properly?
this article by glenn dickey says it all!!!!! al f-ing davis is the problem, always HAS been the problem and always WILL be the problem!!!!!
http://www.examiner.com/
a-347386~It_s_no_longer_
Shell_s_station.html
before you anti-media types get on me for this, glenn dickey, ira miller types have long been considered some of the best and most fair in the business.
I don't understand why the Raiders woes has to be either the players, or the coaches fault.
When a team falls as far down as the Raiders, isn't everyone to blame ?
Players, coaches, and owner, all have not done a good job.
RaiderOO,
I agree as far as giving the blame and also as giving credit!! All I have seen from most posters is bad-credit but no bonus to anyone, how can that be?/
To the others:
Here we have some stupid arguments in contridiction::
Players are professional so they already know how to play the game....
Its the coaches falt for not teaching them.....
They did this in college so they know how to do it now....
Change the game plan to fit what the players can do.....
If the damn player are so smart why do they need a coach???
ArtShell is trying to teach an offence that these players have never run before, becouse they are young and do not remember the days when this "O" was popular..."Can't teach old dogs new tricks"...so he is teaching his young dogs, not the older players who may be already set in their ways with the new scheems...Hell! Too many of the fans are young and can't remember the old way of the Raiders...so now we all get to learn, and as for the "D"s, they never played against this "O" in their life time so it will be new to them also....Shell brought in coaches who played in this system and can teach it to the young....why is this so hard to understand???? Because you are set in your ways???
Anon, I agree that preaching patience over panic is a reasonable approach.
However, I see no vision or logic in running the ball on 16 consecutive first downs. Nor do I see any excuse for letting 45 seconds elapse between a two-yard run and the next snap while down two scores with less than five minutes left in the game.
One of our big bye-week drills was learning how to get plays called before the game clock expired! A potentially game-changing red flag was not thrown during the Browns game due to poor systems planning for such an event.
Such gaffes in basic game execution leave this coaching staff open to questions about their competency.
I wish it weren't so...But I have to call it like I see it. I'll try not to panic. But my patience is being sorely tested.
One of the things which irks me is the notion that the Sid Gilman offense is out of date, and a pile of dog crap in the NFL today. Nothing could be further from the truth.
The West Coast offense, created by Bill Walsh, was and is a mutated version of Sid's vision. Bill Walsh was one of Sid Gilman's disciples, and he worked for Gilman, along with Al Davis, in San Diego. When Walsh came to San Francisco, a team nearly completely devoid of the kind of talent necessary to make the Gilman offense effective, Walsh began to tweak to make things work with what he had. Since Bill Walsh did not have the aggressive offensive line, hard nosed running backs, nor rocket armed Quarterback required for a smash mouth running game and aerial fireworks in the Gilman offense, Walsh began developing the pass as a means of running the clock. A pass to the running back at the corner of the line of scrimmage and the side line was the same as a sweep. A long run after a short catch was the same as a deep pass, with a lower risk of interception. However, what should be remembered is that the plays for both are mostly the same - they are just used differently, and for different reasons. The primary difference between the plays is that there is greater emphasis on down field blocking assignments after the catch in the West Coast. This is what enables the West Coast to use short passes as a means of "going deep."
The Gilman offense has converged a far distance into the West Coast offense. It's original style was not abandoned because it didn't work mechanically, it was abandoned because one couldn't always guarantee that one would be able to draft and sign the required player types in the era of free agency and a larger number of teams. It also demanded that routs and assignments were performed as perfectly as possible, requiring coaches to call the plays so that the players could purely focus on the system. This is almost a no-brainer. Since a team is passing instead of running its sweeps, an interception generally results in a touchdown for the opposition.
The Gilman system requires quality run blockers up the middle. It's not so much that they need to open holes as they need to move the pile, and a big strong running back can assist in that by hitting hard the place where the hole was designed to be, whether or not it's actually there. The idea is simply to attempt to move the ball five yards, even if the ball is held in the middle of a stumbling, falling pile of NFL offensive and defensive linemen. Marv Hubbard and Marc Van Egan made their living on this. On the outside, the Gilman system requires the Tackles to protect the Quarterback from the sides. This requires them to be more agile in order to steer the charging defensive ends away from the Quarterback. This is mostly why Shell, when he came back to the Raiders, shifted the OL positions (moving Sims inside, and Walker back outside).
The West Coast offense requires lighter and more agile linemen across the board because of its use of rolling pockets and mobile Quarterbacks.
In the Gilman system, the Quarterback is the field general. With the exception of Dallas, Quarterbacks called their own plays into the 1980s when the West Coast was invented. The Gilman system requires a smart Quarterback who can read the defensive personnel on the field prior to even seeing how they line up. This is because, more than anything else, the Gilman system is match up football. In the Gilman system, a smart, strong armed, accurate Quarterback can make the job of Offensive Coordinator almost irrelevant. (Note: Payton Manning is a perfect Gilman style QB.) In fact, the OC's job was largely created to accommodate the West Coast. In the Gilman, the OC may send in the initial formation and the play, but the old school thought is that the players on the field need to communicate as to whether or not they are beating their assignments, and the Quarterback should use the information to find the holes in the defense (calling audibles liberally). This means that much of the game plan is decided in real time, on the field during the game. Adjustments at half time become less necessary because the adjustments should be continuous. Whatever adjustments are made at the half are generally changing routs within plays, or switching the assignments of the players running them.
There is nothing unusual in the Gilman system about averaging less than 25 passes per game. The primary focus is about moving the pile five yards at a time, and using as much of the clock as possible. As the linebackers and strong safety draw in closer to more quickly counter the pile's movement with their own weight, the Quarterback will fake the handoff and fire one deep down the field. A couple of shots at this on successive drives will push the backers and the safety back out again allowing the offense to again inflict punishment on the defensive line. The primary focus of the strategy is to control the clock, and to keep the game close with the confidence that your team can win it on the last drive of the day. This is how the Raiders built their reputation in the 70s and the 80s.
When it's run well, the Gilman offense is beautiful to watch (even in its violence), and far more exciting than what generally passes for entertainment in the current NFL. But it's downside is exactly why the West Coast was invented. It requires prototype players at almost every offensive position. The only way for Shell to know whether the Raiders had such players was to work with them directly. You can't always find out what you need to know by watching film. What we are finding out is that the Raiders do not currently posses the players they need. They can approach this by attempting to find an offense which is more suited to this group, or by teaching those capable of learning and then acquiring what they don't have either through the draft or through free agency. The former is not going to happen (at least not under Shell), and the latter is made more difficult because of the fact that more and more colleges have adopted the West Coast, meaning fewer players are trained in the intricacies of the Gilman. If you can put a complete team together, that last would serve as an advantage.
The jury is still out on virtually every player along the offensive line. But it is obvious that they are improving, and by the end of the year we'll know full well who should stay and who should go.
Moss is a prototypical Gilman wide out. Whitted has only half of what it takes. He has the blinding speed to stretch the defense, but with the other inadequacies we have on this team, he lacks the instincts to come back to the ball when he's completed his pattern - and this is vital - he lacks the hands. Curry is an excellent companion receiver to Moss when he's healthy, but the Raiders are concerned about his durability. They would like to see him fully recover so that he remains a part of their offense for years to come. The Raiders do not have a suitable Tight End. The Gilman system requires a fully rounded TE who can block and catch.
Ideally, in the Gilman system, you use the greater size of the Full Back to do the heavy pounding over the middle, and the speedy Half Back to attack the corners. You also need the Full Back to be a good enough blocker to pick up the blitz, and to lead the HB off tackle. The Gilman also prefers that the FB have great hands in order to be a dump off man whenever everybody else is covered. The Raiders' running backs all have the various aspects required, they just aren't combined in the preferred positions. Jordan has the ability to drive the pile (if he'd chose to do so), but not the speed to get around the corner. He's also not a good blocker. His inability to block makes him an undesirable FB, and his lack of speed makes him an undesirable HB. Fargas is the perfect Gilman HB, but lacks the durability. Crockett doesn’t have the blocking skills to be a FB, but with that he'd be excellent.
From the Quarterback, the Gilman system requires someone who eats, drinks, and sleeps football. Beyond the physical tools, the Gilman system QB must have great cerebral talents as well. He must know the defensive system and all of the personnel who run it for every team on the season schedule. He must know his own offensive playbook and the purpose of each play like the back of his hand. Tui is strictly a West Coast QB, and likely only a back up at that. Both Brooks and Walter have the physical skills. Brooks seems to lack the mental acuity, but we're hoping that Walter is still developing it. I don't know how Walter spends his free time, but if 98% of it isn't spent in the film room, Walter won't prove to be what we want.
From what I've seen of Leinart, it's likely that he's more suited than anything we currently have, but it's difficult to know this for certain. He's working in a system that allows him to use his physical skills, but doesn't put too much pressure on his mental capacity. But the Raiders determined a long time ago that developing that kind of "thinking man's" Quarterback reasonably takes about three years. If Leinart were playing for the Raiders right now, I doubt that he'd be doing too much better than Walter, and probably not as well. It is for this reason that the Raiders resist drafting Quarterbacks in the first round, and seek instead to find a developed veteran.
Personally, I think this is the one philosophy which has become outmoded with the changing conditions. As stated earlier, both colleges and pros are going more and more with the WC offense. Both colleges and pros require less and less thinking by their QBs. Rookie QBs are more suited to step right into a WC offense than they ever were with the Gilman. Many veteran QBs have never worked inside the Gilman. It therefore follows that fewer and fewer available veterans will know the Gilman any better than a kid right out of college. Therefore, if you're going to run the Gilman, you better get them young and train them early. You may not expect to start them for three years, but you better expect to teach them all of the QBs assignments in the Gilman within the Raider organization.
Well, the trading deadline has come and gone with Porter and Moss still on the roster.
Interesting to see that good ol' Phillip Buchanon was released by the Texans the other day and then signed by Gruden today. Although Buchanon was a 2002 Callahan pick, no doubt Gruden and Callahan had noticed him the year before...
All I have to say is that "BlandaRocked" needs to get his own blog.
I don't agree with everything he writes, but I'd definitely blog-roll it and be a regular visitor.
Be strong, Raider Nation.
Just a thought here. but...
I wonder where the Raiders would be today if Davis had hired Steve Mariuchi, and drafted Matt Leinart.
Perhaps with Mooch, Porter would be happy camper.
Would be fun watching Leinart pitching the ball to Moss, Porter, & Curry.
Just an 0-5 thought...
Oh, what could have been.
Blandarocked wrote:
From what I've seen of Leinart, it's likely that he's more suited than anything we currently have, but it's difficult to know this for certain. He's working in a system that allows him to use his physical skills, but doesn't put too much pressure on his mental capacity. But the Raiders determined a long time ago that developing that kind of "thinking man's" Quarterback reasonably takes about three years. If Leinart were playing for the Raiders right now, I doubt that he'd be doing too much better than Walter, and probably not as well.
I do like Walter, but did Blandarocked watch the last two games Leinart played? If so, was he high while watching?
His performance on MNF is being called the best ever for a rookie QB in his second start.
He showed Poise (the Raiders used to use this term, I think) and great leadership. Not to mention, great touch and the ability to throw on the move.
Not "much pressure on his mental capacity"? Huh!?! He looked in total command in the huddle and at the line of scrimmage, didn't make bad reads, and I swear he even called some audibles.
He looked like a freakin' veteran in there. Behind a bad OL and without a starting WR.
Three years to develop? BS! Unfortunately, the Raiders will see this first hand this Sunday. Huff may end up being a good one, but I'm tellin' ya'....this is another Elway the Raiders let get away.
BlandaRocked:::Great Job!!
I was trying to talk about "Teaching young dogs new tricks" but you really explained it, very very well...wish I had said that...
Why is it so hard to teach a new system??? For the answer lets look at ourselves..
I have been in union work for almost 30 years as Boilermaker, Ironworker, Steemfitter, but never liked the attitude.."If we drag our foot just right we will get things our own way".....I see this with the players..."Why shoud we do the job that way, we want the job done our way".....Thus you have the frustration of Shell!!!It is not the inability of the coaches to teach, it is the unwillingness of some players to accept it....
Let me go back to a time when the coach was king!!! 1960-62 as a baseball player when I was 10-12 years old, you looked up to the coach, never questioned him, would fight if anyone spoke bad about your coach....I got my first letter in the 8th grade at track and played football in highschool, never questioning the coach, do as you are told if you want to ply ball, if not, get the hell off the field!!!
I studied under 5 Masters, Tai Kwan Do, Judo, Sho Da Kon, and never question a master, learn it the way I am taught, not try to change his teaching to fit my abillities...
"93" I became a Master as a Captain thru the CoastGaurd, and carried those Ideas with me onboard a vessel....These are strong principals and dissiplines..
What has happened today... the disiplins have been thrown out the door....and that is what CoachShell said when he first took the job...Remember..."The Inmates Are Running The Assylum"....But not any more!!!It is Shell's way or the Highway...Yes and that is good with me!!!
Yesterday I made a pridiction...The Raiders will win their next 2 home games....WHY....Because I think I saw them finally accept the rule...they can not change it and unless they want to follow porter, they had better start playing the game as taught by the coach...this is why I think they will win now. Another reason is they are getting angree, this is KEY to the way the Raiders played in the past, always Angree and nobody wanted to play them after a loss..."Anger can be a strong alley" in the "DarkSide" of the Force!!!
PantyRaider--FollowTheDarkSide!!!
X, the raider never let John Elway get away. He was going to be drafted by Baltimore Colts and Al was making a deal to aquire him because the boy refused to play football for the Colts, said he would opt for Baseball. Than Denver intercepted and the Colts threw him out.
PantyRaider
Matt lainert:
Last April on this site I began posting and talking up drafting Matt in the first round, or Young if he falls. As I remember there were not but maybe 1 or 2 supoters of the QB draft deal. The rest wanted DT, DE, LB, CB, S, or TE. How is it now that I see so many more QB takers?
I agree 100%, Matt is better than anyone we have now, without a doubt and I wish we had him!!! We could have had Walter (with his small 3rd round cap) and Matt with his 1st roun cap on the same team and be set for the next ;,@'/&`*&+Years?? What a mistake, we realy blew that one so now who do we blame it on??
But wait, if we are so stupid what about Houstan Texans, NY Jets, GB Packers, I mean, who was as stupid as the Texans, they also missed on Bush?? NO Saints were smart, Got-Bush? Tenn Titans Got-Young....
So we are in a Huff-n-Puff, who may be very good, BUT........?
PantyRaider--SackedPick!!!
"X" - I second the motion to get BlavdaRocked his own blog. In all seriousness BlandaRocked, if you are interested or have any questions, just drop me a line at
chbraidernation1@sbcglobal.net
You could be up and running in less than 5 minutes. It is that easy. It's only too bad you don't get paid by the word!
In regards to Leinart, he compares very favorably with Tom Brady. Both are winners with razor sharp minds to quickly process information, defensive schemes and coverages. Leinart has all of the important intangibles that are critical to being successful in the NFL...moxie, leadership,toughness, and poise. No use kicking ourselves though about what might have been. What's done is done.
I like what I have seen from Walter so far. He has shown toughness and a sense of calm to weather the storm. In the Broncos game Walter made only a few bad reads or mistakes. Walter played well in spite of the playcalling, being on the road, the abundance of penalties, and playing against the top D in the league.
Let me just preface the following points by saying that the "Coaching blunders vs. players poor execution" argument should be solely focused on the offensive side of the ball.
My view is that it isn't a "chicken or egg" type of argument. I sincerely believe it is a "chicken AND egg" argument.
By that I mean both parties are equally culpable. I blame the coaches involved with the offensive unit for the following shortcomings;
(1) piss poor planning; unimaginative games plans and play calls
(2) inability to make in-game adjustments; 5 2nd halfs for a total of 10 points! That is 2 points per 2nd half gents.
(3) inability to teach, coach, and install a hurry up offense by the 6th week. This should have been taken care of during training camp and the exhibition season.
(4) inability for the staff in the box to communicate effectively and advise Shell on in-game officiating challenges.
(5) Personnel/Management decisions; the handling of the Porter fiasco, the trade of Gabriel and Whitted still starting; these decisons defy all logic & reason (sorry BlandaRocked but if you want to debate this notion, then please do get your own blog!)
I blame the players involved with the offensive unit for the following shortcomings;
(a) piss poor execution; sorry folks but the numbers don't lie.
1) Scoring 10.0 (32)
2) Turnovers 15 (32)
3) Sacks Allowed 24 (32)
4) Time of Possession 26:18 (32)
5) Yards per game 229.0 (32)
6) Pass offense 117.2 (31)
7) 3rd Down Coversion 25.9% (31)
(b) poor discipline; the offensive unit is responsible for 37 penalties for 276 yards. The majority of these infractions were pre-snap.
(c) lack of leadership; who is the leader of the offensive unit?
(d) lack of focus (dropped balls), football awareness (Jordan lateral play), urgency (down by 10 with 5:55 on the clock), applying what you learn in practice (quickly getting in and out of the huddle), effort (lazy route running by Moss) and I could go on and on.
Bottom Line: Both the offensive staff and offensive players need to get their act together. There will be no easy, quick fix solutions. It will take a concentrated effort, plan, and vision for the staff to coach and sell to the players how the offense should be run. The players need to be willing to learn and buy what the coaches are selling through dedication and committment.
Calico,
One good thing about a blandarocked blog...
by the time we finish reading it, this horrible season would be over.
lol
Raider 00 - A blog is tailor-made for BlandaRocked who has some very interesting and thought provoking opinions. The more Raiders fans and Raiders blogs, the better!
Speaking of Raider bloggers, if you haven't already done so, you should check out "The Raider Way" by Stick'em. (http://raiderway.blogspot.com). He has a wicked sense of humor and is very knowledgeable about football and Raiders history.
Cheers!
Calico Jack
Blandarocked said, "When Walsh came to San Francisco, a team nearly completely devoid of the kind of talent necessary to make the Gilman offense effective, Walsh began to tweak to make things work with what he had. Since Bill Walsh did not have the aggressive offensive line, hard nosed running backs, nor rocket armed Quarterback required for a smash mouth running game and aerial fireworks in the Gilman offense, Walsh began developing the pass as a means of running the clock."
Walsh did not have the QB he needed until he drafted Joe Montana. With Montana (who yes, did have a strong arm), he was able to perfect the West Coast. He did this by what you said, the "dink and dunk" to the RB out of the backfield (which became Roger Craig, whom he drafted), quick slant patterns, pretty much 5-7 yards passing, sometimes less.
That set up for Montana to hit Dwight Clark on a deep post, then Jerry Rice came in with more speed to be the #1 WR to get the deep post. Either way, Walsh perfected the WC by setting up something deep, usually a post.
The Raiders did the same, but used the rush of Mark Van Eeghen, Kenny King, Bo Jackson/Marcus Allen in the late 80's early 90's; then would find Fred Blitnekoff, Dave Casper, Todd Christian, and Tim Brown on the deep post, or deep slot (with Stabler, Plunkett, Lamonica, Schroeder at the helm).
So what's my point? Gilman's system is not out-dated, but it is flawed in that when it's not working, you're spinning your wheels for a long time. The WC Offense when it's not working, like you said, results in a pick on the short pass, returned for a defensive TD.
But when they DO work, they set up the deep post, or a long ball down the sideline, because the defense shortens the middle of the field by stepping up on the play, instead of stepping back.
The Raiders have not played this way. The opposing defense is stepping back every play, while the D-line breaks our blocking coverage to put pressure on a QB who's dropping back to go long every pass, and the LB's blitz. That is horrible play calling.
What's wrong with mixing the two philosophy's? If your running game, up the middle isn't working, why not play-action pass for 5-7 yards; get the linebackers to step up to stop the run, and BAM, hit the slot with a quick slant? Then mix it up a little, slam it down their grill when they start stepping back to cover the quick slant!
Then the next natural step for the defense is to bring the safeties up to stop the quick slant, and the linebackers to stop the run, the D-line to stay at home a few seconds to see how the play is going to unfold (instead of bullrushing every down) and BAM! The deep post to Moss is open for the TD! Goal accomplished.
That is what the Raiders need to do. Be creative with their game plan, make simple adjustments to hit their overall goal. They can do these minor things in the first half, and open it up in the second. They can even reverse this, start with the deep ball, come back and hit them with a short game of running and dunk passing; and by the 4th Quarter, you have the defense where you want them; to receive the full throttle of Raiderball! Hard running, followed by deep passing.
We are playing into the defenses hands by dropping back every pass play. They blitz with the linebackers, while the DE's bullrush. They are giving us the middle of the field, knowing we are not going to take it! ADJUST TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT!
I'm not saying the Raiders' system is outdated, I'm saying they are not taking advantage of big opportunity to set up their system properly. THAT'S POOR COACHING! POOR COACHING LEADS TO HORRIBLE PLAY! I SAID IT BEFORE, YOU CANNOT BLAME THE COACHES FOR THE FALSE STARTS, FUMBLES, DROPPED SNAPS, POOR BLOCKING ASSIGNMENTS, ETC. BUT WHAT HAVE THE COACHES DONE TO SET UP THEIR SYSTEM? NOTHING! THAT IS WHY WE ARE 0-5!
Regarding Leinart, the day after the draft I wrote the following on Raider Take: "I have to admit that when Leinart was still there at number seven on Saturday, I was rooting for him (from the heart) as the pick. I think he’s poised and prepared for the NFL, and that he's got magic, too. More important, I’m just sick of the QB position as it relates to the Raiders. Aside from the Gannon intervention, it’s been an extended drought."
Calico Jack, your take is spot on! Both the players and the coaches are on the hook for this one, as you so ably demonstrated.
If I'm not mistaken, BlandaRocked has already started a blog. He can fill us in!
Hey, when I came here and started to post, my only thought was that I'd like to communicate with some passionate Raider fans. Perhaps because most of you guys are thought provoking, I've found a lot to say. But if I started my own blog I probably wouldn't be able to think of anything to say. Also, while I have the time right now, I seldom have that much time to put into it.
I agree, my posts are long. But there's a reason for that. There is really no issue before this team that can be handled adequately with a short paragraph. Unless, of course, you happen to be "anonymous" at the top of this page.
As Raider Take says, I did start a blog through "Blogger" but that seemed the only way I could get my computer at work to handle posting. The only other way that was working was to e-mail something to Raider Take and have him post it.
But thanks for the high compliment. It doesn't bother me at all when people disagree. As long as what I have to say gets respected. And it has been. I'll consider making use of the blog I originally set up.
Raider Nate 75:
Memories fade, but if I remember correctly, one of Bill Walsh's fist moves in SF was to put Jim Plunkett on the waiver wire. He didn't waive Plunkett because he felt Plunk was ineffective, but because Walsh realized the OL that he inherited couldn't protect Plunk. Tweaking to the WC offense was to address the same problem that the Raiders are going through right now. Poor OL play. That is a limitation of the Gilman offense. You have to have one rock solid line.
BlandaRocked:
Don't worry about being able to think of anything to say. Just feed off the comments and other blogs and write whenever you feel like it. Let's face it. The way this season is going, there will be plenty of interesting topics and issues to cover. High drama, tragedy and hopeful a reawakening!
Blandarocked, that is why I posed that we should be able to inter-mingle both philosophies. Bill Walsh was a coach that used the teams strength to their advantage, at the same time, he strengthened their weakness. By doing so, Walsh built the confidence of his players.
This is exactly what I've been repeating for 5 weeks. This is why I put the majority of the responsibility on the Offensive coaches, including Shell (for not slapping Tom Walsh upside his head). I truly believe the team's offensive struggles revolve around the offensive coaching staff's inability to communicate with the players, working with their strengths, strengthening their weaknesses, and adjusting your game plan. The offensive players have no confidence in their coaches, nor themselves; and that reflects poor coaching.
RaiderNate75:::
I would like to see the "O" you speak about, good idea but if it is so difficult to get these players to buy into and learn the symple "SID-O" how the hell are they going to play your "Double "O" WC-Gil thing??? I hope it can come accross but the guy to run it is already in AZ, Ouch!
We did see a little of the WC-"O" with the left-hand swing-pass to RB Jordan, but he left the first one on on the field for a "D" touch-Down and the last one was fumbled away to the Donks....Not a good patern, but I think we will see more and more creativity as the players grasp the "OLD" Raider way, and this will come if we just give Shell a chance, which here we really have no choice because Shell is here to stay!!!!
Please have Faith.....change will come this week.....WHY......Because the players are finnally going to accept it, practice it, play it, because they have no choice----it is not going to change so stop "Dragin-the-Feet" I really think they finally got it!! That or follow Porter!!! I believe they will have a good practice this week and have their first compleat game and 1st victory....NO More Resistance!!! If I am wroge we will all know it but I "Feel-da-Vibe" from the last loss and saw the anger and believe it is TIME...
RaiderTake!!...no problem BRO, I know you were in suport of takin the QB, I was just commenting about so many others who were against it, right??? I remember the little things and bring them back out, kind-da "In-da-Face" type thing.."Shock-Treatment" to make people rember what they were saying in the past, like this year if the Raiders turn it arround I will be the first one there to "Slap-da-Memories" up along side the head of the guys who were so "Neg-Neg-Neg-a-tive"..Ha! Ha! No-Escape!!! "I like it"
So, If I am wrong about this week's practice and game I would expect to hear it from the "Postas", but, I would rether be Wrong in support of my team, than to be right and against them!!!!
PantyRaider--HangOnBirdEaters--CardinalStew!!!!
Raider Nate 75:
I think we agree far more than we disagree. It just seems to me that you can't get the car to race before you tune the engine.
Inflexability by Tom Walsh may indeed be much of the problem. I simply have no information about that other than what I see on the field, and what I see on the field are bad mechanics, mistakes, and poor execution. I don't think Shell caused that because it's been going on for three previous seasons.
I really think that Shell is here to stay, and I approve of that. But Walsh may well be gone at the end of the season if there isn't some radical improvement. I also think that the majority of these players will be gone within about three years. I don't think Shell is just here to "restore tradition," but to find out what we have to work with as a base. Of all of the coaches that Davis has hired since 1994, Shell is the one that Davis believes will tell him the truth.
While the adversity is making us (as well as Shell, Davis, et. al.) as mad as hell, it is providing information to Shell that I think he will work from. "Who are the players who will never give up, no matter what? Who are the players who will give me 100% at whatever I ask them to do? Who are the players who left it all on the field on game day?" Gruden asked the same questions when he first came in, and by his third season they were radically improved. I don't think Turner ever thought in those terms.
PantyRaider, I didn't take it that way!
I was just wistfully revisiting my own take, in the context of you and others talking about Leinart.
I was blown away by Leinart's poise and presence on Monday night. For the past two weeks, he has put his team in a position to win with last-minute drives, only to be thwarted by missed field goals. His biggest challenge right now is overcoming the Cardinals' bizarre and historic penchant for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
Like any young QB, he will encounter rougher waters (hopefully starting this Sunday). But if the past two weeks are any indication, he's on his way to a solid, if not exceptional, NFL career.
There was a post (can't remember who) which said (baiscally) that NFL players all learned what they needed to know through Pop Warner, High School, and College, and that coaches in the NFL only need to install the right system.
Here's why I disagree with that. Take your average high school QB who everyone is calling a "sure thing" for the NFL. That "sure thing" will likely never play against a DB who is also a "sure thing" during his high school career. Only the elite from high school go to a big time college, but very few in big time college programs will go on to the NFL (the entire draft would only populate about four NFL teams with change-and most of those will be cut in their first camp).
So the "sure thing" goes on to college where he will likely only face a few DBs who will ever become professionals.
After college the "sure thing" becomes a member of the NFL by being drafted. "Sure thing" is feeling pretty good because he is now a member of a very elite class. The problem is that EVERYONE he now faces is a "sure thing," one of the elites. While he was in high school and college, he could rely on his athleticism to a large degree. He could develope bad habits, and it wouldn't hurt him. But now, everything has changed. His fundamentals have to be perfect, and he's going to have to work his butt off just to keep up.
This is what makes players like Lienart (who apparently is capable of starting in his first year) rare. Not just rare, but a gamble. One is more likely to grab a Leaf than a Lienart.
Blanda, BTW, I also eighteenth the motion that you should start a blog. Your breakdown of the Gillman offense was masterful.
Couple of things I was wondering about. With the firing of Jim Fassel and the Cardinal OC, it makes you wonder how untouchable Tom Walsh is. Would this team benefit from firing him now and bringing someone else in, or promoting from within?
And I'll segue that into another item to ponder. We've been talking about the coaches being unable to teach these players, or at the players inability to pick up the offense. You have to wonder exactly how much the players' hearts are even into *learning* this offense, and if that's affecting their morale.
I think the NFL is like any other company in some aspects. Any time there's change within a company, the new management needs to come in an explain to the staff why things are changing and why *their* way of doing things are better than the last guy. Staff are usually tentative, but buy into it after a while, mostly because they just become accustomed to the new way things are performed.
But the NFL is different in one aspect of this. Unlike employees who's only comparisons usually come from similarly-positioned people at other companies, NFL players have the media to tell them all about their new management staff and what they're all about.
And the media has not been kind to the Raiders. With the offseason reports as their guide, the players' perception of the new managment is probably along the lines that Art Shell was a desparation attempt at manager, they're going to return to a system that succeeded before they were born, and the person implementing that system is a mayor who was running a bed & breakfast.
With that kind of press, you have to wonder what the players' impression of Shell & Walsh are, and whether or not they have mentally committed themselves to learning this system. If not, then perhaps letting Walsh go might not be a bad idea...assuming, of course, that they'd be able to find someone else that would appease the players...not something easily done since the shots are still being called by Art Shell and, yes, Al Davis.
PantyRaider, no offense bro, but you're spinning my wheels. The way you get better execution is what I said about Bill Walsh, " Bill Walsh was a coach that used the teams strength to their advantage, at the same time, he strengthened their weakness. By doing so, Walsh built the confidence of his players." That was done by what Blandarocked said about him with, "Walsh began to tweak to make things work with what he had. Since Bill Walsh did not have the aggressive offensive line, hard nosed running backs, nor rocket armed Quarterback required for a smash mouth running game and aerial fireworks in the Gilman offense, Walsh began developing the pass as a means of running the clock." Meaning he used the WC system to compliment the Gilman system, and develop the player's inability to run a Gilman style offense. It worked so well, that his understudies (Holmgren and Marriucci) completely did away with the Gilman.
I don't think our players are having a problem "grasping" this system; as you put it. The problem is the coaches not utilizing plays that compliment and set up the overall system we want to accomplish (please re-read my long post on this subject). That uses the strengths of the offensive unit in a WC system, and developing the weaknesses of running a Gilman system. It is a simple matter of the OC being in the booth, recognizing the patterns of the defense (are the LB's coming forward or stepping back? etc), getting on the phone with the QB, showing him these pictures, making the adjustment to further set up execution; and BAM! You have the defense where you want them.
Where our blocking is failing, is how can you stop the bullrush of a defense when the play isn't designed to do that. The plays we are using are designed to catch the defense by surprise; but the coaches are using it as a primary offensive scheme. The blocking schemes are not designed to stop an all out bullrush of the D-line and LB's like that. There is no way possible!
I agree that you put the blame on the players for fumbles, dropped passes, not running their routes effectively, outright missing blocks, penalties, etc. But these problems we are seeing on the field is due to a lack of confidence in the OC, and his ability to call a game (for the above reasons).
I do have faith in the talent that we have on the field. This is why I've posted all offseason long that we should at least win 8. I also posted, as an overall concern, the ability of the OC being out of the game for so long. I had confidence that he would be able to make these adjustments that were not made under Callahan and Turner; but he proved me wrong, and I (like the players) do not have confidence in the OC. It was good to see some of these plays called the past few weeks, but again, they were not the primary sheme. The Long Ball, and Up-The-Middle runs were. These were secondary schemes to get us out of a jam, and it will never work. In order for the Gilman and WC offense to work effectively (which Blandarocked and I both agree), the Up-The-Middle runs, and SHORT passes should be primary schemes that set up the Long Ball that puts the dagger in the open wound of the opposing defenses. That is primary coaching taught in Pee Wee football, and High School Football; no matter if you use the WC or Gilman systems.
Side by side, Doobie and Raider Nate put up great posts.
With the firing of Fassel, I wondered how that might effect Walsh. Several times Al Davis has considered Fassel as HC. I don't think his firing threatens Shell, but perhaps Walsh. Fassel was here at the same time as Walsh so they're both skilled in the Gilman. Regardless, I think Walsh is here through the rest of the season, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Fassel hired as an assistant with the idea of lighting a fire under Walsh.
Regarding players reading the press... Absolutely! Players are big on reading about themselves in the papers. After a few years in the league, they don't like talking to the press because everything they say gets taken out of context and misrepresented. But they still look for their name in the paper religiously.
Just look at Jerry Porter. What did he tell Shell when he first met him? "I don't want to be part of some ancient system dusted off from the 70s!" That's exactly what the press had been saying.
But here is the irony of Jerry Porter. When Porter came in, he wanted to play in the Gilman (imagining those long passes for touchdowns). But Tim Brown taught him that (because the WC was mostly implemented throughout the league) he would find that as a deep receiver he would be a dime a dozen - his big money would come from precise routs and catching passes over the middle. Porter learned from Tim Brown well, and he learned good lessons. He can still go deep. He's now been offered an offense that will allow him to make a big name by going deep - but he wants Mike Martz.
Just how dumb is Jerry Porter?
NY Raider Fan said....
CJ: perhaps a little late in my response, but those are some telling statistics you posted. We live at the bottom of virtually every offensive measure.... OUCH!
Unfortunately, the Raiders don't draft on the intangibles you speak of. It's only by accident that we might draft a player with moxie, because they'd also have to run a 4.2.
Despite all the problems on offense (agreeing its a player AND coaches issue), Walter has shown impovement and poise. I like what I see and I think he could be a solid QB for the Raiders, i.e., assuming other corrections can be implemented.
Meanwhile, someone please call down to hotel management and find out why Tom Walsh is not getting a wake-up call. PLEASE!!!!
NY Raider Fan
ePantyraider,
Have to agree with what you say here.
Media bashed Raiders for letting the great Al Saunders slip away.
Now Saunders' high powered offense is nowhere to be found in DC.
Had Saunders come to Oakland and flopped, media would have had a field day, and ripped everyone apart.
But media protects their sacred favorites like Gibbs, so not much is made of Saunders failure.
Darkside, I see your position as well, and thought about it. But why are the players wanting change? They don't see a failed system, they need to see improvement. These are players that have been with us through the Gruden years, and some just under the Turner Era. But nonetheless, these guys are seeing the same system that has not worked under other coaches.
If you listened to players like Brooks, Moss, Sapp, Gallery, Jordan, Walter, etc; they were saying that they liked the system coming in because they saw a difference in the system that wasn't there in the past. Now they are frustrated because this difference is not being implemented in game time.
Coach Shell has said "We have not used the complete playbook to help us take the pressure off offensively." Players know this as well, and they are complaining because they are not being set up to win, but fail. I don't think they are complaining to have a whole new offensive system, as much as they are complaining for Shell and Walsh to implement the differences they saw in training camp, that is going to help them win. Hence why, Moss is getting away with saying, "Nobody else seems to care, so why should I?"
Yes, it's a fine line of stubborness on both sides; a stubborness that is continuing to ruin this team.
nike roshe
coach outlet online
nike shoes
nike outlet
cheap jordans
jordan shoes
mbt shoes outlet
kate spade outlet
canada goose
new york knicks
Post a Comment
<< Home