The Future Is Now: Running Back
When you look at LaMont Jordan’s 2005 season (over 1,000 yards rushing and 70+ catches), and you consider the abysmal play of our offensive line in 2006, you have to cut the guy some slack. On the other hand, he averaged just 3.8 yards per rush in both 2005 and 2006, so you have to wonder just how much slack to cut him.
Also, Jordan missed a lot of games last year to injury, and a couple of games the previous year. Are we seeing a trend in the making?
The same goes for Justin Fargas. His fourth season was his best season, yet he only averaged 3.7 yards per carry at the end of the day. He’s one tough dude when he’s not injured. Unfortunately, he only carried the ball 40 times total in the preceding two seasons due to injury. I would call him an asset, but certainly not a star.
The fact is that LaMont Jordan was signed to be our star at running back. But I’ve just got this sense that, in order for LaMont Jordan to rip off a huge run, conditions have to be perfect. I don’t see him creating his own holes through brute force, nor do I see him exploiting creases or turning fast corners on the outside. If there’s a hole there, he’ll hit it. It just has to be a big perfect hole. Please tell me if you think I’m wrong.
Remember when Napoleon Kaufman would slip through a crease and his feet would sprout wings? Remember Bo Jackson running over Brian Bosworth? I miss those days.
Forget the entire NFL, just look around the seven other western division teams (AFC and NFC), and who do you see? LaDainian Tomlinson, Larry Johnson, Shaun Alexander, Frank Gore, Stephen Jackson, Tatum Bell and Edgerrin James. Where would you rank LaMont Jordan in that group? Pretty low. Maybe above Tatum Bell and Edgerrin James (at this stage of his career), but that’s it.
Granted, the western divisions are rather stacked at running back, but you get my point. Look at it another way: The Raiders have drafted only one running back (Fargas, third round, 2003) higher than the sixth round since 1998, and none higher than the third round since Napoleon Kaufman was selected in the first round in 1995. Now let’s look at the aforementioned running backs:
Johnson: First Round
Tomlinson: First Round
Alexander: First Round
Jackson: First Round
James: First Round
Bell: Second Round
Gore: Third Round
Do you see a trend here? I would suggest that the state of the Raiders’ running game is directly proportional to the team’s emphasis (or lack thereof) on the running back position in the draft. In fairness, Jordan was a second-round pick by the Jets in 2001, but you get my drift.
I see our options as follows: (1) do nothing—stick with the current cast; (2) sign another strong veteran to either take the lead or to at least spell the others (in the vein of Charlie Garner coming in to complement Wheatley); or (3) finally get serious about the running back position via the draft. Personally, I would like to draft a franchise running back, but I’m not sure I want to do it at the expense of drafting a possible franchise quarterback.
The challenge is that we have huge needs across our entire offense: quarterback, tight end and offensive line also need a lot of help. The wide receiver position is also a bit of a wild card, too, but not as dire as the other positions. It’s sort of a perfect storm of desperate needs. It’s easy to say it’s broken. It’s hard to say how to fix it, at least with some measure of expediency.
My take is that we can live with Jordan and Fargas (and Crockett, Lee, etc.) if necessary, in order to first fix some other positions. However, if that’s the case, then I wouldn’t expect great things from our running game anytime soon.
Also, Jordan missed a lot of games last year to injury, and a couple of games the previous year. Are we seeing a trend in the making?
The same goes for Justin Fargas. His fourth season was his best season, yet he only averaged 3.7 yards per carry at the end of the day. He’s one tough dude when he’s not injured. Unfortunately, he only carried the ball 40 times total in the preceding two seasons due to injury. I would call him an asset, but certainly not a star.
The fact is that LaMont Jordan was signed to be our star at running back. But I’ve just got this sense that, in order for LaMont Jordan to rip off a huge run, conditions have to be perfect. I don’t see him creating his own holes through brute force, nor do I see him exploiting creases or turning fast corners on the outside. If there’s a hole there, he’ll hit it. It just has to be a big perfect hole. Please tell me if you think I’m wrong.
Remember when Napoleon Kaufman would slip through a crease and his feet would sprout wings? Remember Bo Jackson running over Brian Bosworth? I miss those days.
Forget the entire NFL, just look around the seven other western division teams (AFC and NFC), and who do you see? LaDainian Tomlinson, Larry Johnson, Shaun Alexander, Frank Gore, Stephen Jackson, Tatum Bell and Edgerrin James. Where would you rank LaMont Jordan in that group? Pretty low. Maybe above Tatum Bell and Edgerrin James (at this stage of his career), but that’s it.
Granted, the western divisions are rather stacked at running back, but you get my point. Look at it another way: The Raiders have drafted only one running back (Fargas, third round, 2003) higher than the sixth round since 1998, and none higher than the third round since Napoleon Kaufman was selected in the first round in 1995. Now let’s look at the aforementioned running backs:
Johnson: First Round
Tomlinson: First Round
Alexander: First Round
Jackson: First Round
James: First Round
Bell: Second Round
Gore: Third Round
Do you see a trend here? I would suggest that the state of the Raiders’ running game is directly proportional to the team’s emphasis (or lack thereof) on the running back position in the draft. In fairness, Jordan was a second-round pick by the Jets in 2001, but you get my drift.
I see our options as follows: (1) do nothing—stick with the current cast; (2) sign another strong veteran to either take the lead or to at least spell the others (in the vein of Charlie Garner coming in to complement Wheatley); or (3) finally get serious about the running back position via the draft. Personally, I would like to draft a franchise running back, but I’m not sure I want to do it at the expense of drafting a possible franchise quarterback.
The challenge is that we have huge needs across our entire offense: quarterback, tight end and offensive line also need a lot of help. The wide receiver position is also a bit of a wild card, too, but not as dire as the other positions. It’s sort of a perfect storm of desperate needs. It’s easy to say it’s broken. It’s hard to say how to fix it, at least with some measure of expediency.
My take is that we can live with Jordan and Fargas (and Crockett, Lee, etc.) if necessary, in order to first fix some other positions. However, if that’s the case, then I wouldn’t expect great things from our running game anytime soon.
posted by Raider Take at 9:48 AM
67 Comments:
AngelicRaider-
Maybe I have been caught up in the hype machine(I wanted to give Walter a shot)but I would like to get JaMarcus Russell with the number one overall pick, and then depending on who is available go O-line or RB with the 33rd pick. Maybe we can ask ol' Rat Shanahan
to help us select a RB on the second day if we repay him for prior services rendered.
You hit the nail on the head with regard to the draft once again.
The second biggest reason the Raiders have sucked for most of the last 25 years is that Davis refuses to draft a proper Running Back. The single biggest of course is his utter failure to properly address QB in the draft - preferring like RB others teams junk.
Davis fears RB and QB will take the attention away from him.
Davis drafting strategy makes me want to f****** puke to be honest.
AngelicRaider-
www.packerchatters.com/op-ed/view.php?id=281
If we trade Moss do we get the 16th pick overall as well. We are going to have to wait and see who we hire as HC before we get rid of Moss which I am not opposed to at this time.
Before we determine what we do at RB, we have to see where we're going to be at WR - are we going to keep Moss, Porter, both, neither.
I think that in view of what we have now, we're going to have to keep one or the other, as distasteful as that may seem. I think that we can get more value for Moss, but if we keep only one, it's Moss I'd rather have.
We get the #1 pick in every round, because nobody was as bad as the Raiders this year. Our first pick in the 2nd round is as good as a low 1st round, our first pick in the 3rd round is as good as a low 2nd round pick, and so on. If we trade either WR, and couple that trade with a draft pick, we can get good value by obtaining another 1st round pick. With that pick we can take a RB who may be able to make an immediate impact.
For instance - trade Moss and our 2nd round pick to Detroit for their 1st round pick, the #2 overall pick. (I know, I know, if I were Detroit I wouldn't take it either - but we're talking about Detroit.) Here Detroit would get a WR, which they need, and a pick which is essentially a low 1st round pick (#33 overall).
ghostraider - i admire your openess and honesty. i, like you have been ripping al davis a new one for his bumbling and stumbling the last several years and quite frankly i'm sick of it. the problems with the raiders go FAR beyond the coach and the players on the field. so i would say if a running back is the 2nd reason we have sucked, it's DAVIS being the numero uno reason we sucked.
as for take's take, i say jordan is the eric chavez of his sport - way over-rated not to mention over paid. NOW having said that, i know the o-line has problems galore and is the main blame for our offensive probs BUT i've seen great running backs with poor o-lines before and the great ones KNOW how to get it done.
with that said, they should trade our pick and walter to arizona for thier pick and leinart and hire norm chow as our coach. that way, we can get peterson but that won't happen. realistically we should use the pick on jamarcus russell and build - excuse me REBUILD the o-line through the draft and free agency.
the key here is to be WISE with this pick and to be WISE hiring the right coach but we all know as long as al davis is steering the ship, who knows what'll happen!
Add:
There is also a great negotiating tool that comes out of my above suggestion. Some have claimed that they feel Russell might be a tad too greedy. But if we have both the #1 and the #2 pick, we have a choice of who is drafted at #1. As we will be able to talk to whomever we choose with the #1 overall pick, we can sell the honor of being #1 to whichever one is willing to be the most flexible during contract talks.
I don't know how you can say that Jordan is another team's "junk." Lets think about last year...not many games did Jordan have 20+ carries. However, on those games that he was given a good load, he carried for over 100 yards and we won the games. With limited playing time with the Jets, Jordan looked like a great running back. He came into Oakland and with 272 carries he gained 1025 yards and 9 touchdowns. This past season, he only got 114 carries ... not even half the load he got the year before, and even had he not been hurt he likely would not have came near 200 carries on the season. While I don't think that Jordan is as bad as you want to make him out to be, I do believe we need to look for a future RB star and I think we can do it in Round 2 by taking Louisville's Michael Bush.
Anon, I never called Jordan "junk," nor did I say he was bad. I did say that I don't think he's great.
I did say that I don't think he's as good as LT, Larry Johnson, Frank Gore, Stephen Jackson and Shaun Alexander (not to mention a number of other backs in the league).
So where exactly do we disagree?
Also, I don't think that number of carries is much of a barometer. It's sort of like passes attempted. Yards per carry is more telling, as is passing completion percentage.
If you look at last year's draft as a barometer, there are good RBs in the late 1st round and 2nd round.
Reggie Bush (1/2)
Laurence Maroney (1/21)
DeAngelo Williams (1/27)
Joseph Addai (1/30)
Lendale White (2/45)
Maurice Drew (2/60)
I have not followed college football closely and the NFL Draft sites are not in full swing yet but the below 4 RBs deserve consideration:
Adrian Peterson (Oklahoma)
Marshawn Lynch (Cal)
Kenny Irons (Auburn)
Michael Bush (Louisville)
The 1st 2 backs we would need to trade up to get (or trade down if we bypass the #1 pick)
The last 2 backs should be available with the #33 pick.
Another route which Davis seems to prefer, is to target a FA RB or possibly trade for a RB. RBs to consider might be Cedric Benson (via trade); Ahman Green (FA), Mike Bell (FA).
If it was my choice, I would do the following:
Take JaMarcus Russell with the #1 pick and Michael Bush with the #33 pick. If we are able to unload Moss for a 1st or 2nd round pick and use that to take Marshawn Lynch I would be thrilled.
Scorpio:
Of course, Davis is the real problem. This manifests in both crap coaching (for the most part), and insane drafting.
I think failure to adress RB and QB properly over the last 25 years is why we've lost so many games. Davis doesn't care about either position. He likes CB's, Wr's, TE's, and lineman.
He wants to throw the ball but won't provide a QB, he thinks only old vet that can throw the ball a long way can get it done. His philosophy is ass backwards like his drafting.
He lets premium franchise changing talent go by the boards while stockpiles CB's. Huff was another CB in all but name, there was no real CB to take @7, so Davis found the next best thing.
Davis' drafting is dangerously demented.
I was just coming out of Al Davis denial when we hired Gruden, then of course i thought the old man still had it. When Gruden left i thought Davis has learned about modern football - he hadn't learned shit. I'm not sorptised we've had four terrible years on the spin, there's more to come, you can bank on that.
Davis is why we're losing. End of story.
Back to RB, if we'd took QB last year like we should have done we'd be laughing now. We could take Peterson after trading down, or maybe get Lynch even later. We could even take the top rated player in the draft (Johnson) and pick a RB in round two.
Instead we will probably have to sit through another agonizing Davis 1st round fuck up like Gallery and Huff.
Keep passing on QB has a dominoe effect down the years, after we make our pick this April, we SHOULD have had MARQUEE talent at the QB and RB position for the next decade.
What will we have?
NEITHER is my bet.
Just watch Davis manufacture a scenario where he can aoid taking QB and get away with it, and pass on a RB for that sack of shit Jordan.
He'll take Johnson. Best player, but totally the wrong pick.
Anon said,
"not many games did Jordan have 20+ carries. However, on those games that he was given a good load, he carried for over 100 yards and we won the games."
You're wrong. There was only 1 game this year where Jordan went over 100 yards, and that was a week 4 loss to the Browns, and had 19 carries for 35 yards vs the Ravens, and 23 carries for 60 yards vs the Doncos. Our win against the Cards, Fargas led the team with 66 yards rushing. Our win against the Steelers, Fargas again led the team with 55 yards. Jordan had 63 yards vs the Seahags; which was his second highest effort of the 2006 season. The only other game a RB of the Raiders came close to 100 yards, was Fargas against the Chiefs 20-9 loss, which he had 90 yards.
I've said it before, we can sign Ahmad Green, trade for Cedric Benson, or use our 2nd pick to draft Michael Bush. Another possibility depending on his draft status Monday, is to trade our 2nd pick into the low 1st Round to get Antonio Pittman.
Ghostraider said,
"He'll take Johnson. Best player, but totally the wrong pick."
I still disagree that Johnson is the best player at WR. I think Jarrett is the better of the 2.
Calico said,
"Another route which Davis seems to prefer, is to target a FA RB or possibly trade for a RB. RBs to consider might be Cedric Benson (via trade); Ahman Green (FA), Mike Bell (FA).
If it was my choice, I would do the following:
Take JaMarcus Russell with the #1 pick and Michael Bush with the #33 pick. If we are able to unload Moss for a 1st or 2nd round pick and use that to take Marshawn Lynch I would be thrilled."
I would try the free agent/trade route at RB first, and use our second pick to try and get Steve Smith/Limas Sweed (WR). Like I posted before, my main reason is the potential RB class of '08: P.J. Hill (RB, Wisconsin), Darren McFadden (RB, Arkansas), Ian Johnson (RB, Boise St), Mike Hart (Sr RB, Michigan), Ray Rice (RB, Rutgers), and Steve Slaton (RB, West Virginia). All in the Top 10 at their position this past season.
But like I said in my last post too, I wouldn't mind drafting Michael Bush with our 2nd pick (whether it's at #33, or we trade up to get him).
Raider Nate 75 said...
Ghostraider said,
"He'll take Johnson. Best player, but totally the wrong pick."
I still disagree that Johnson is the best player at WR. I think Jarrett is the better of the 2.
Well, you might think that, i gaurantee NFL scouts don't. I love Jarrett i'm an SC fan, but he won't be an Oakland Raider.
CJ will be drafted ahead of Dwayne regardless of how you rate them.
Its the way it is.
Raiderbeggars.com making out there is big news.
Give them $60 to hear some made up bullshit!
Raider Nate, don't quote me unless you plan on using the entire quote. I said "Let's look at last year..."
This year has been a completely different year - where half the offense was either not on the field or refused to play. How much of it do you put on Jordan? You at least never heard Jordan express his distaste for being a Raider. You never heard him say he wanted to be traded, or fake an injury so he wouldn't have to play. Our Offense was retarded as a whole, but there were some players who went out with heart week after week and though Jordan was unable to put up stellar numbers with his 13 average carries a game, I think he's one of the only players on the offense that deserve to stay. AND YES...THAT IS AN ACCURATE STAT... AVERAGED 13 CARRIES!! Of course Larry Johnson puts up hella good numbers when he's averaging 26 carries or L.T. who touches the ball an average of 28 times a game (rush,recieving,passing).
#1 Priority is QB... grab Russell or Brohm if he comes out.
with #33, take Michael Bush.
Jordon reminds me of Wheatley (but at four times the salary)... he is alright, nothing spectacular, and never sees the hole... he tries to make his own holes. Plus he always seems to make his worst mistakes at the worst times.
I have no feeling though if Al even thinks RB is a need... like I said in the other comments... one has to expect the unexpected with Al.
If we are looking at the long term, maybe we can limp along with what we have now, and then draft a RB the following year?
I'm just looking for 8-8 next season anyway.
My take on our RB situation.
Jordan talks a great talk, but doesn’t back it up. His attitude is optimistic and his vision is always the Playoffs which I like, but his play is irregular and far from exceptional. Two years ago he led the league in drops many of them easy dump off passes and his blocking is horrendous. Part of the job description for a star RB is that when you are not carrying the ball you need to read defenses and be a solid blocker, which Jordan struggles with. And even though he looks big enough to be an “in between the tackles bruising back,” he goes down too easy and doesn’t seem to ever get in a consistent rhythm.
Even though undersized and regarded as a speed back, Fargas played more like a big back than Jordan as he bullied, punished, fought, crawled and scratched for every inch of every yard. He played with heart and determination behind a poor line which I found refreshing and inspiring. I don’t think he would hold up an entire season as the go-to-guy, but I would really like to see him as a change of pace back, since he brings the right type of attitude to the field.
Lee, doesn’t really do anything to distinguish himself from other third or fourth stringers..
I probably still like Crockett more for what he did as a short yardage specialist during our SuperBowl run, than for what he has done lately, but part of it is not his fault. I still reminisce when we would line up inside the five yard line, the coach would announce loudly that we are going in the endzone now, the OL would chuckle and then we would proceed to ram the ball into the endzone while defenders where backed up helplessly. He still runs with great force so why he wasn’t used more by Turner and Shell is beyond me. And while I think he blocks better than Jordan, I think he is misused as a FB and I would really like to see a solid dedicated FB on the roster in the moldn reminiscent of Jon Ritchie..
Obviously, our pathetic OL play factors into the running game, but that’s a separate discussion..
Panty, here is a poem for you,
Al did know
to take Bo
but it was
a long time ago.
We need some fresh legs now.
We can't rest on what we did 20
yrs ago.
Here's a trade scenario to chew on.
Randy Moss and our 2nd Round pick, to Baltimore for Mike Anderson and the Ravens' 1st Round Pick.
Great point all, good series. I am with you, I would love another dominate back, but I think QB first. What about taking a chance on Michael Bush? I think we need to keep Moss and Porter, unless we can get another first round pick but I don't think that is realistic, do you?
J Russel, C Johnson, A Peterson, whatever...
I for one will find it difficult to complain as long as we don't see a bungle for the ages (Jano). Any legitimate offensive skill player worthy of a 1st overall pick is good enough for this team. We don't have to worry about "need" because they are all "needs".
Also, for those of you who keep pointing to Gallery as one of Al's F-up's... please remember this was not Al Davis being a renegade, Gallery was a concensus pick...
Thanks, gcp.
Regarding Moss and Porter, I think it comes down to how we define fair market value.
The Raiders refused to play Porter at all last year, devaluing him in the process. It was a true lose-lose proposition. Meanwhile, Randy Moss devalued himself with his divisive attitude and alligator arms.
I now think the question is not what these guys "should" be worth to other teams, but rather what they are worth to us (very little at the moment, judging by last season). That's how I would define their market value, and I would entertain offers accordingly.
Davis has made some good decisions and some very bad decisions. All in all he still is stubborn as hell. That is why Davis drives everyone mad because you never know what he will do. I think a good runningback would do wonders for our offense. But Davis just doesn't do things that make sense or that would give balance.
I thought Lamont Jordan would be a discent RB. And when he's healthy and he has some good run blocking he can make somethings happen. But Jordan is not a perimer RB.
The hang up on Jordan is, he has no burst of speed and can't cut back every well. He is too slow hitting the hole(considering there weren't many holes this season past?)and when he hits it, he runs square. Mind you that he can take a lick or two, but there is no imgination.
Play calling has sucked too. Shell said we are going to have smash mouth football. And run the ball down hill. There has to be a good system in place to allow your offensive players to get the ball.
This year is going to be interesting. For all we speculate, Davis may go defense with the #1 pick. Davis' philosphy has always been dealing with the defensive side of the ball while the HC deals with the offensive side of the ball.
But stranger things have happened in Raider land. I like what Ghostraider had to say in the beginning. Davis fears players will take away the attention from him. Davis is the old mold of NFL owners. "I really don't give a rats
a** what others think, I will conquer with my own brand of football players who want to play for the greastest orgainiztion in the NFL. I will show them all how football is really played."
While that worked years ago. Time has really past Davis by. He doesn't have much time left. And if winning is all that matters. Then damn'it make some sound decisions and let the HC coach.
There is a rumor going around that the Packers maybe interested in Moss. Hmmmmm
panty, like raider00 said, the past is the past. you cannot keep living in the past with the old so-called legends hanging around. WTF have they done for this team except get free tickets to the game from their pal al? have they made this team any better? NO. have the same tired old slogans fired up anyone up? no. those slogans have made us a laughing stock of the league. team of the decades? gimme a break!
respect al davis? my ass! i'll respect al davis when he steps aside. i'll respect al davis when he tells the fans he actually gives a crap about us shelling our our hard earned money and for what? crap on the field? i'll respect al davis when he signs a long term lease to commit to staying in oakland. i'll respect al davis when he stays out of the courts.
bottom line is a winning organization starts at the very top. sure al davis wants to win but at the cost of his massive egotistical pride? no one is bigger than al davis and THAT my friends is the real problem. i gaurantee he'll do something stupid to screw up this draft.
Since it is safe to assume that our O-line will continue to struggle next year and will be a work in progress, I think it will be critical to have good safety valves (RB, TE) for our QB.
A good pass catching, blocking RB will be imperative. Clearly these are not Jordan's strong suits. Gaining an extra pick in the 1st or 2nd round to take both a RB & TE would certainly help immensely.
I also believe that will need to concentrate our FA dollars on veteran lineman. Beyond the personnel upgrades on the offensive side of the ball, we need to update our playbook for the 21st century.
The vanilla, predicatble, unimaginative O just doesn't cut it. I would venture to say that the Raiders were probably the only team in the NFL that didn't use a 4 WR set once in 2006. We hardly used our RBs as pass catching weapons.
PantyRaider,
If there's any issue I have with Al Davis regarding the draft, it's that he is way to loyal to the failed picks.
No one is perfect, and everyone will make some bad picks now and again, but what in the world is Derrick Gibson, & Tyler Brayton still doing on this team ??
I mean, what took so long to get rid of Delawrence Grant ?
How long will Gallery, Grove, & Walker(who they may bring back), hang around ?
Who would cry if Courtney Anderson were waived tommorow ? Not me.
You just can't give the same loyalty to these guys as you give to a Tim Brown, for instance.
Brown was probably kept around a year or two past his prime, but that is understandable considering all he did for the Raiders over the years.
But to keep these other bums around, giving away valuable roster spots to guys everyone already know can't play.
Well, it's just nutty, and it drives me crazy.
Rt
Is there any truth to the rumor that Gruden is out in Tampa and could be headed back to the Raiders? Man that would be nice.
"But stranger things have happened in Raider land. I like what Ghostraider had to say in the beginning. Davis fears players will take away the attention from him. Davis is the old mold of NFL owners. "I really don't give a rats
a** what others think, I will conquer with my own brand of football players who want to play for the greastest orgainiztion in the NFL. I will show them all how football is really played."
That's Al Davis to a "T" he's hated RB since Marcus Allen. He hates QB since Marc Wilson and Toddy, and he hates anyone (Gruden) or maybe a stud RB/QB taking the attention and glory off him.
He doesn't care about winning, he cares about winning his way, that's why he threw everything that was so great about Grudens teams and went back to his leather helmet Vert pass game bullshit.
He would rather LOSE, than admit he's wrong and Hey Presto! that's exactly what we're doing - LOSING.
He wants to be loved by the players and it doesn't matter that that castrates the HC.
Always looking for the sea to part when handed the ball, it got really tiring watching Jordan tiptoe around the backfield.... particularly when he knew holes weren’t going to magically materialize behind the Raiders’ abysmal O-line.
So let’s review Jordan’s short stay in Oakland: He is not a decisive straight-ahead runner, he lacks speed and quickness to get outside (against today’s speedy LB’s), he’s a below-average blocker, and he almost routinely dropped easy dump off passes in 2005 (note, dump off passes mysteriously disappeared in 2006). Then, there is the epic brain fart of leaving a lateral on the ground.
Fargus is a decent backup, but probably never destined to be a starter, perhaps for no other reason than his lack of durability. Crockett has been misplayed as a fullback, and now is past his prime at either position (HB or FB).
I agree with other posters who contend that RB is a position that routinely gets under-managed in terms of acquisitions. Quite simply, we need immediate help at RB, and it should be a top priority.
I stand behind drafting Russell #1, but we need to look at all available options regarding RB, OL and TE, through draft and free agency.
pantyraider, you throw out a lot of numbers. there's a lot of names behind those draft numbers that are busts, not to mention bust free agent signings over the years. of course, if a free agent happens to be a future hall of famer, davis no doubt will take credit for that player being in the hall.
the draft is SUPPOSED to build us up. NOT tear us down. with his track record of picking these players, is it a wonder why we are where we are?
the only thing i as a LOYAL paying customer care about is 2 letters W & L. and lately we've been getting a HELL of a lot of L's.
as long as that crook davis does it own stubborn outdated way, and his way being the only way, we ALL will continue to suffer.
there is no doubt about his early career accomplishments in the league. NO DOUBT AT ALL. but that was the past. YOU and other al davis kool aid drinkers continue to live in the past. you continue to worship your god al davis and his minion of yes people ie: jim otto, amy trask, fred belitnikof and willie brown.
if the rumor about gruden is true which i doubt, then let's REALLY see him swallow a piece of humble pie and rehire the man who beat and embarrased his ASS in the superbowl.
You're right RE: Moss and Porter. I say we hang on to them, bring J-Russ and they will both be as giddy as school girls. Of course if we could get back into the first and get say Lynch, but now I am just dreaming!
How about Thomas Jones? Benson is the future over there.
I agree with RAIDERNY'S take.
Jordan is a big mouthed piece of shit.
He hasn't got a single attribute, he does EVERYTHING badly.
CUT.
as far as jordan goes..... there is only one quote you need to here and he said it.....if i would have studied the playbook maybe me and the o-line would be on the same page..did not know all my blocking assignments because i didn't look at that in the playbook...... it says it all...jones.
OH, MY GOD!!!
Jones...! We agree! All one need ever consider in regard to Jordan is his statement that he failed to even look at the blocking assignments his first year here.
For this reason, I doubt Jordan's credentials even as a back up. We have a decent back up, and his name is Fargas. But we also need a starter. We can get rid of Jordan for any job higher than 3rd string.
Jordan and Fargas are serviceable NFL backs--neither is a premier back like the guys on RT's list and neither is a third down back. The Raiders will draft the best back available that can catch and pass block, in rds 2 or 3. This will give an immediate third down improvment, if it turns out this player can unseat Jordan, then they can fight it out [see Joseph Addai and Dominick Rhodes].
Request--will you guys that believe we can still get a 1 or 2 for Moss please send me some of what you are smoking--it is obviously the superior ganja...
For all the Chefs, Donkey & Bolts fans who have been giving us grief the last 4 years, please remind them of these indisputable facts ...
The Raiders have won 4 playoff games in the past 7 seasons
The Broncos have won 1 playoff game in the last 8 years
The Bolts have not won a playoff game since 1994
The Chefs have not won a playoff game since 1993.
Yes, Chefs, Donkeys, and Bolts fans I would be the first to agree that the Raiders have been in the toilet the last 4 years BUT let me know when your teams do anything.
Bye, bye Shittenheimer...the ultimate choke job today.
This is my first time posting on here and I liked reading all of your comments and different views... well mostly... I have been a RAIDER fan ever since I knew what football was and I still think they are the greatest team in all of sports. So now that I got that out of the way... I agree with some of the people here in that we should draft Russell with our first pick then get the best RB we can get with our next pick. I think we should also draft a real TE. Well at least this makes sense to me, what Mr. Davis does is anybody's guess. Yes Mr. Davis has made some stupid mistakes but this but as far as I can tell he looks human to me. For what he has done for this SPORT he deserves all the respect in the world. I, like every other Raider fan am not happy right now with team but to bad mouth the owner the way some of you have is pathetic and just shows your level of intelligence and emotional maturity. I for one think Mr. Davis is tired of losing and has maybe realized that he needs somebody from the new school to help him make decisions so will hire a young O minded HC in Sarkisian. But if not and he makes some more bad decisions and we have another horrible year then I may agree with some and say he does need to step down and let someone else handle the team... but you know what, I will not lose any respect for the man and of course I WILL ALWAYS BE A RAIDER FAN.
Man I luv all the facts you guys throw out there. Another facts is that the Raiders have sucked for the last few years and we're still hated on haha I luv being a Raider.
I alos luved watching the #1 seeded chargers lose at home today. Looks like that playoff losing streak is gonna continue.
Welcome, Richbizzle. Keep the takes coming.
Calico Jack, thanks for the good news!
cam cameron has already said he won't interview here. smart guy that cam. i guess he didn't want those puppet strings to get tangled around his neck.
you hear that al davis spots good young coaching talent but that good talent sure won't come to coaching hell in oakland ie: petrino, payton, whisenhunt. and that lucky sap that does come here will perhaps have some success, put in his 3-4 years and go elsewhere. and we are left to rebuild once again.
pantyraider, i didn't mean to imply that al davis would actually rehire jon gruden. i only mentioned it because his ego would NEVER let it happen.
I've already stated that I think Peterson is the best choice here, simply because I think it's the best way to build the team. As noted, almost all of the contending teams are trotting out first round running backs, while many of the QBs were mid to late round selections. Jordan might be optimistic, but his preparedness and dedication appear to be lacking, and his skills are not that of an elite back. I love watching Fargas run, but he's not always smart about it and I don't think he could carry the load with that running style for an entire year.
Peterson should be the choice, as it would give the offense an instant identity. Additionally, a good RB is not as affected by coaching changes as is a QB, so performance should be consistent. I am not up to speed on his ability to pick up the blitz, and he hasn't shown a knack for catching balls out of the backfield, but he has shown the ability to get into the end zone from anywhere on the field, which is a threat we don't have today.
In addition, we've been focusing on the first pick, and rightly so, but I think at some point in the second half of the draft we need to look at a legitimate fullback. We haven't had one since Ritchie left, and - not coincidentally - our ground game has suffered ever since.
Whisenhunt takes HC post with Arizona. The report was that the Cards were “impressed with the leadership he portrayed.” They said, "he presented a well-organized and thorough plan for moving forward."
How great would that be to get a new coach with leadership skills and a plan?
Whisenhunt probably brought the same plan to his meeting last year with Al Davis and Al said, "no, use this plan instead."
Now, the two best HC prospects we've interviewed in the past few years have shunned us and subsequently placed themselves in excellent positions to display their skills and succeed... Sean Payton and Ken Whisenhunt. Oh yeah! Add Bobby Petrino to that list.
Calico:
The Raiders have won 4 playoff games in the past 7 seasons
Five with an asterisk (we won the game cept Coleman was playing god in looking in his peephole... he couldn't see anything from the replays, the CBS camera's missed the "tuck play" almost in it's entirety).
Bama7
What have we become? Three top coaching candidates choose the Falcons, the Cardinals and the Saints over the Oakland Raider's job. Wow. Let that sink in.
It'll never happen but if San Diego lets Shotty go, Al should call and say, "You've beaten my ass for twenty years. Beat me to a pulp. Beat me 'til my legend is a laughingstock. Please, be my head coach. Build me a winner and I PROMISE not to interfere or mettle. I promise."
Shotty as coach would be better than any players we draft, acquire or trade.
As for the draft, I advocate giving Detorit all of our picks 2 - 7 in exchange for the second overall pick. Take a franchise QB & RB withose two picks (Russell & PEterson). Then grab a FB, OLB (can S. Williams) and one solid OLineman in free agency and let's play football. With a modern scheme. I don't care who it is, just bring in someone that knows a modern scheme and ditch all the old Raiders, Freddie, R Martin, Willie Brown, etc etc.
Trade Porter for a 2nd or 3rd rounder. Pick-up RB Danny Ware from Georgia. He has been sharing time with two other good RB's (THomas Davis and Gregg Lumpkin... both will play on Sundays). Danny is a tough back that is hidden because of how much time he shares.
I fear this the most: Al taking a WR. Please, Al no! Now that Ginn from OSU has declared this looks like a real possibility.
Jemarcus Russell is an absolute freak. Is he really 19? 260 pounds, cannon arm and 19?
anon,
The day Rotten-hiemer comes to Oakland would be the beginning of my sabbatical from the team. I have followed the Silver & Black since I was 9 yrs old. That's a tall order when the Cowboys are the home team. That said, I hate that guy as much as he hates us!
Bama7
Pope- you don't like Shotty's style? Tough, hard-nosed football teams made up of real football players as opposed to a bunch of combine warriors and track studs? Please give me a break. I've hated the guy as an oppposing coach, but think about it. He has been a one man wrecking crew on our franchise. As Panty said, at least maybe he'd be out of the AFC west, so let's follow this situation with keen interest. he is our damn kryptonite and we need him gone or better yet, safest, in our camp. I know it'll never happen though. Al doesn't hire strong personalities like Shotty. Shotty hasn't been fired but maybe he will be since the chargers had such a terrible day yesterday. That freakin' Brady has got to be the luckiest player in the history of the NFL. That fumbled INT that gave him new life as well as the headbutt foul that gave him new life is making me think he's a damn witch doctor.
Been away--haven't read all the posts on this take so apologize in advance if this point's been made:
To those who want Peterson or Johnson with the #1--can Peterson audible to a draw or Johnson to a fade? You can take away a franchise WR or RB--look at RT's list of top RBs-- Johnson, LT, Jackson, Gore, Alexander--do I need to ask what they all have in common at this point in time?
Then look at Brees, Manning and Brady and ask what they have in common? You can beat a franchise QB but you can't take him totally out. Manning and Brady were so-so for three quarters and still got the job done.
To those who say "how do you know if Russell/Quinn is a franchise QB?" You don't--but if you don't have one, then every chance you have to get one you have to take the shot.
Calico Jack is dead-on here. Russell with #1, even if that's a bit high. The kid could bust, that's a risk. But he's too good to pass up. Walter could be groomed to be the star backup. If that.
If Michael Bush is available with #33, there is NO DOUBT that you pick him. If he hadn't gotten injured and kept going on the pace he was going a year or so ago, he would be the #1 pick. That's just how it goes. In fact, about a little over a year ago, I told everyone that the best Bush in the NFL would be Michael Bush of Louisville. Yes, I said that he would have a better NFL career than Reggie Bush of the New Orleans Saints. And I believe it. Imagine if we could get both Russell and Bush.........what a sweet, sweet foundation we could build. I doubt that will happen, but it could.
Picked this up on another site that Enquirer of Sports PN's Michael Smith mentioned on their NFL show this afternoon ...the Raiders might go for Pats OC Josh McDaniel ...
Fits the AL mold of young, offensive minded, somewhat experienced NFL coaches (them talking not me).
I hate 'em but they are right in the qualifications aspect.
In terms of interest, I hope not because this will take as long as last time.
Just throwing it out there. Also Lofton is coming in for an interview, which happened last time also.
Speaking of ... "The Future is Now: Running Back",
Chokenheimer didn't have the common sense to make sure LT got at least 30 rushing attempts. You've got the league MVP and arguably the best RB of all time ripping off 6 yards per carry and he ends up with only 23 rushes. Nice coaching Marty. Good job keep LT well rested.
Another piviotal "Marty Moment":
4th down and 11 from the 30, score 0-0 and you go for the 1st down instead of kicking a 47 yard FG or punting?
why isn't anyone talking about urban meyer as the next possible raider coach? he is an offensive mastermind and he's won everywhere he's been. i think he would make a great head coach.
peterson declared and made it official. russell or peterson? hmmmm.... how many great running backs are in the afc west? how many of those are on our team? yup. thought so. russell sounds really good with that cannon arm, but with peterson out there if the raiders get him instead, rebuild that line via free agency and the draft i'll be happy. plus there won't be any waiting time for him to develop as he'll pay off from day 1. a bit steep at #1 though for him especially with his recent injury history.
something to chew on from SI.com
Peterson ran for 4,045 yards in three seasons, ranking behind only 1978 Heisman winner Billy Sims (4,118) and Hall of Famer Joe Washington (4,071) on Oklahoma's career rushing list. His 1,925 yards in 2004 were a school rushing record and the most by a freshman in NCAA history.
As of today, the Raiders will have complied with the Rooney Rule. I expect that Davis will anounce the new HC by Wednesday or Thursday.
I expect that it will be Sarkisian. If not, then Ryan. I think it's down to these two. That will leave the major question of who the OC will be. I think that person will likely be Trestman, whether Davis choses Sarkisian or Ryan. If the new OC is Trestman, we'd likely have to add the skill of pass receiver to the RB credentials. RBs who fail to cover backward lateral passes need not apply.
"why isn't anyone talking about urban meyer as the next possible raider coach? he is an offensive mastermind and he's won everywhere he's been. i think he would make a great head coach."
Why? really you're asking why?
Because Urban Meyer has a great reputation and as such doesn't have to lower himself to coach for Al Davis.
He's too good to HC here.
Blanda... my crystal ball sees the same image (be it good or bad).
HC: Sarkisian
OC Trestman
DC: Ryan
What needs to be done now is fire our offensive coaching staff, starting with o-line and receivers coaches.
Which begs the question: how does Fred Biletnikoff get a pass as receivers coach after this year's complete disaster at the receiver position? Raider-Family nepotism has to stop if we are going to move forward and be successful. Personally, I blame Freddie for placing a prejudice in Art Shell's mind about Jerry Porter.
My position about Porter’s benching is pretty well documented throughout the season. Unless someone can demonstrate more than conjecture about his misconduct, then I stand behind keeping Porter and dumping Moss. (I can demonstrate that Moss is an idiot.)
RT, will you be expanding this series with “The Future is Now: Wide Receiver”?
Bama7,
It is not that I dislike the man's style. You have to be impressed with his record AGAINST the Silver & Black. It is quite simply this. I have hated him as long as he has hated us. Even if he could get past his hatred, mine is now to deeply rooted. I respect his hatred. I would lose respect for him if he set it aside. Does that make sense?
NYRaider:
I'm not as down on Biletnicoff as everyone else seems to be. So far his only run in, with anybody I know, is limited to Porter. But Freddie B. developed Porter so he's entitled to his opinion regarding Porter's work ethic.
Don't forget, Porter had run ins with most (if not all) of his coaches. Most WRs who've played under Freddie like him as a coach.
I think the deal is (regarding complaints about the Freddie meme) that if folks are going to complain about Davis hiring the assistant coaches, Freddie is the first one to come to mind because he has the longest histroy with the Raiders.
But this might also be the reason that Davis is interviewing Lofton, even though I don't think Lofton is being considered as HC (and the Rooney Rule is covered by Davis' interview of Denny Green today). It could be that Davis is feeling out how Lofton feels about becoming the Raiders WR coach. If Lofton agrees to the lateral move, Davis might offer that the Raiders might promote him faster (or eventually offer a front office position).
This might be helpful. Over the years I've listened to both Davis and those who work for him regarding how the Raiders pick in the draft.
#1. Despite perceptions to the contrary, Davis wants no "yes" men in the room with him on draft day. He wants coaches and personnel directors to disagree, and to front enough of an argument for Al to allow them their choices.
#2. Al makes his personal choices based not on need but on who he thinks the best athlete on the board is - not even necessarily who the best at his position is.
#3. Al looks for impact positions before need. He dosen't like to go for lineman with the high picks. If you see a lineman selected in the 1st round, you can pretty much guess that wasn't a Davis pick.
#4. Al views almost all draft picks as developemental players - with a few exceptions at WR, RB, CB, S.
#5. Al does not like to take QBs with the first round unless he feels they will make an immediate impact. He feels you are more likely to find players who are impact players in the first round at the other aforementioned positions.
#6. For the purpose of "re-loading," Al prefers free agency for this rout. Trades are generally used to sign someone who Davis always thought should be a Raider (i.e., Moss), or to obtain a better position in the draft.
That's the way I see it. Make of it what you will.
#2 might explain the ongoing obsession with DBs in the early rounds.
Thankfully, we finally have a nice collection of DBs. But at what cost?
The recent frequency of DB selections itself is an admission of failure, as there are only so many DBs you can possibly need...unless several of those early picks turn out to be athletic dogs (Gibson, Buchanon, both first rounders).
As far as "impact positions" v. "needs," the good news is that have both across much of our offense, starting with quarterback and running back! Therefore, we can satisfy both criteria simultaneously.
I forgot where I read it but there was speculation that Davis is interested in Pats OC Josh McDaniels.
His bio from the Pats site:
Josh McDaniels enters his sixth NFL season and his sixth season in New England. He joined the Patriots on March 1, 2001 as a personnel assistant in the scouting department and assisted the defensive coaching staff for three seasons. He began serving as the Patriots' quarterbacks coach in 2004 and was named offensive coordinator/quarterbacks coach on January 20, 2006.
My take (+'s) and (-'s):
(+) Fits the bill of a young (30) offensive minded coach who comes from a top notch organization.
(+) His mentorship under Belicek is invaluable. (similar career path as Payton and Mangini)
(+) Probably has a good working relationship with Rob Ryan from their days together with the Pats
(+) Personnel/scouting background would help in shaping the roster.
(+) QB Coaching background would be ideal if the Raiders take JRuss.
(-) Only 30 years old with really only 3 years of coaching experience.
(-) The Raiders would need to prolong the interview process as long as the Pats are still playing.
(-) Being an outsider, the dysfunction of the Raider organization in combination with his first HC assignment might be too much of a hurdle to climb.
I'm still leaning towards Steve Sarkisian as our new HC, Trestman as OC, and Ryan as DC although McDaniel seems like a worthy & intriguing candidate to consider.
The obvious upside to McDaniels (whom I knew nothing about until Calico Jack was kind enough to furnish details), in my opinion, is his experience within a highly functional organization.
I hear the Patriots are way under the salary cap going into 2007--after winning three Super Bowls this decade, and after advancing to the AFC Championship this year, even after jettisoning their star receiver, Deion Branch. That's what I would call highly functional.
We could use some of that mojo.
Raider take,
Another good example of NE's highly functional team, is the Doug Gabriel saga.
The Pats fearlessly waived Gabriel toward the end of the season, and we have watched little known WR's Gaffney, & Caldwell come up big for them in the playoff's.
Meanwhile in Oaktown, Gabriel was welcomed back with open arms and becomes just another WR, we may or may not use, depending on what offense we may or may not use next year.
I hope you follow this, and if you do, please explain it to me !!!!
RT:
McDaniel's experience in a funtioning organization might actually be detrimental. We could watch him come here, only to watch his head explode.
Sarkisian has a better understanding of what he's walking into, having been here before.
Raider00:
At the time, I noted that the Patriots phased Gabriel out after he made a crucial fumble. A few weeks later, they cut him. Harsh, yes. But I imagine no one on that team took fumbles lightly thereafter.
Meanwhile, our own Randal Williams fumbles twice in a row, with no repercussions.
I just think it all comes down to accountability, and we haven't had a lot of that, as far as I can tell.
Raider Take,
Yes, it seems as if the Pats were able to QUICKLY evaluate Gabriel, and to tell he did not fit into their plans(winning the SB).
The Raiders, who have had Gabriel on, and off for years now, still seem unable to figure how to use him.
They just know they want him(like Jessica Simpson in that commercial).
Holy crap!
KPIX has just reported that the SD press is reporting that James Lofton will be anounced as the Raiders new HC as early as tomorrow!
Don't know if this is true. But it certainly would add to the fact that none of us has a clue what Davis will ever do.
If true, I'd say forget about JR, because the Raiders will likely draft a WR. Perhaps what we're looking at is Lofton as HC, Sarkisian as OC. If that's the case JR would still be on the table.
Hey, Toni, welcome and thanks for your take! Please keep 'em coming.
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