Garcia to Sign with Raiders?
Update 11:10 a.m. - ESPN is reporting that Jeff Garcia has signed with the Buccaneers (thanks for the tip Calico Jack). The Buccaneers also simultaneously traded for Jake Plummer (who is still measuring his desire to play the game and wondering if his Rocky Mountain beard will survive the trip to sunny Florida). As it stands, Jon Gruden has Jeff Garcia, Chris Simms and Jake Plummer. We have Andrew Walter. To say we have some holes to fill at the QB position would be an understatement.
There's a school of thought out there that we don't need a proven QB veteran, that we can simply charge ahead with Russell or Quinn, Walter and a scrub to be named later. I haven't enrolled in that school. The Raiders have never embraced youth at the quarterback position, and now suddenly we're going to be exclusively about youth at the quarterback position? How about some balance. How about identifying and selecting your quarterback of the future, and then securing a savvy veteran to help bridge the gap between experience and inexperience? We need a plan, and I think a savvy veteran is crucial to this plan. I'm not talking about the herky-jerky stuff we pulled with Collins and Tui in 2005 and Brooks and Walter in 2006, but an actual plan the unfolds over the next several seasons, in which the torch is handled with care and then, at the opportune moment, handed over.
Update 5:12 p.m. - The San Francisco Chronicle is reporting that negotiations between the Raiders and Jeff Garcia have reached an impasse after several hours of discussion and a "series of interesting events," which include Jake Plummer's refusal to go to Tampa Bay and resulting free agency aftershocks. Stay tuned...
RaiderFans.net is reporting that Jeff Garcia is set to sign with the Oakland Raiders (thanks NY Raider and Roberto of Raider Raza for the tip). RaiderFans.net has been reliable with insider breaking news in the past, so while I have not seen this confirmed elsewhere, I consider it a strong lead.
Personally, I like Garcia's competitive drive and veteran savvy. This isn't Jake Plummer or Kerry Collins, who prefer to flirt with retirement when the chips are down. This is a hard-nosed guy with a true desire to play football. He's from down the road in Gilroy, garlic capital of the world. I wouldn't mind saying, "Welcome home, Jeff."
That said, Garcia would only complete part of our quarterback puzzle. I won't be content with him as simply the heir to our questionable tradition of relying on NFL castaways to captain our ship. It worked with Gannon, but failed miserably with George, Collins and Brooks.
Therefore, the other part of our quarterback puzzle is grooming a long-term solution to the position, so we're not always in this position of instability and uncertainty. Remember, Garcia is 37 years old. Even if he turns out to be spectacular, basic football biology suggests that he won't be spectacular for too long. We need a guy we can count on for five or more years, in the vein of Manning, McNabb, etc., a guy who will give our offense a lasting identity and a nucleus of stability.
In other words, I will welcome Garcia as a short-term bridge, yet hopefully not at the exclusion of a long-term plan via the draft or other means.
There's a school of thought out there that we don't need a proven QB veteran, that we can simply charge ahead with Russell or Quinn, Walter and a scrub to be named later. I haven't enrolled in that school. The Raiders have never embraced youth at the quarterback position, and now suddenly we're going to be exclusively about youth at the quarterback position? How about some balance. How about identifying and selecting your quarterback of the future, and then securing a savvy veteran to help bridge the gap between experience and inexperience? We need a plan, and I think a savvy veteran is crucial to this plan. I'm not talking about the herky-jerky stuff we pulled with Collins and Tui in 2005 and Brooks and Walter in 2006, but an actual plan the unfolds over the next several seasons, in which the torch is handled with care and then, at the opportune moment, handed over.
Update 5:12 p.m. - The San Francisco Chronicle is reporting that negotiations between the Raiders and Jeff Garcia have reached an impasse after several hours of discussion and a "series of interesting events," which include Jake Plummer's refusal to go to Tampa Bay and resulting free agency aftershocks. Stay tuned...
RaiderFans.net is reporting that Jeff Garcia is set to sign with the Oakland Raiders (thanks NY Raider and Roberto of Raider Raza for the tip). RaiderFans.net has been reliable with insider breaking news in the past, so while I have not seen this confirmed elsewhere, I consider it a strong lead.
Personally, I like Garcia's competitive drive and veteran savvy. This isn't Jake Plummer or Kerry Collins, who prefer to flirt with retirement when the chips are down. This is a hard-nosed guy with a true desire to play football. He's from down the road in Gilroy, garlic capital of the world. I wouldn't mind saying, "Welcome home, Jeff."
That said, Garcia would only complete part of our quarterback puzzle. I won't be content with him as simply the heir to our questionable tradition of relying on NFL castaways to captain our ship. It worked with Gannon, but failed miserably with George, Collins and Brooks.
Therefore, the other part of our quarterback puzzle is grooming a long-term solution to the position, so we're not always in this position of instability and uncertainty. Remember, Garcia is 37 years old. Even if he turns out to be spectacular, basic football biology suggests that he won't be spectacular for too long. We need a guy we can count on for five or more years, in the vein of Manning, McNabb, etc., a guy who will give our offense a lasting identity and a nucleus of stability.
In other words, I will welcome Garcia as a short-term bridge, yet hopefully not at the exclusion of a long-term plan via the draft or other means.
posted by Raider Take at 3:28 PM
64 Comments:
RT:
According to RaiderFans.net, to them this means that the Raiders will be interested in JRuss. I disagree. To me it's the ingredient necessary for drafting JRuss. But still looming is Davis' stated preference for not drafting QB in the first round.
I don't think the Raiders will have solidified this position with a 6th or 7th round rookie QB added with questions still swirling around the ability of AWal.
Check that, "to them this means that the Raiders will [not] be interested in JRuss."
I'm with you, BlandaRocked, I don't think we can view a signing of Garcia as exclusionary to drafting a QB in the first round, at least not without the peril of perpetuating instability at this key position.
Garcia is definitely an overachiever, compared to the pass dropping, quitting, chronic diahreea of the mouth, underachieving Moss.
Garcia would have been a better fit a few years ago when Gannon was the starter (instead of KFC) when we had a solid line.
Garcia can play at a high level, but with his age 37, size and recent history of injury, he needs a solid line to play behind. I think under center, he is going to get hurt and placed on IR.
I think we all jumped the gun with this story though, since Garcia is probably going to explore all his options before seriously beginning negotiations..
I see Garcia as a short-term solution, but much more meaningful than Brooks was last year. I also see Andrew Walter as more mature and more capable now than he was last year (with better coaching and playcalling almost a certainty), and I see the Raiders drafting a solid young QB (Russell or some other high-round pick) to finish the three-some.
Anyway you look at it, we will be leaps and bounds ahead of last year at the QB position.
Remember this time last year we kind of just hung around, never making a move toward any of the FA QB's (of which there were good ones... like Brees), then Brooks kind of just fell into our lap. Perhaps it was a Lombardi vs Shell thing, or maybe Al just wasn't doing what Al does. This year has a completely different feel to it all together.
What do you guys keep calling it? Minty Fresh?!!
Raider Raza, I agree that celebration (or dread for some) about Garcia's arrival seems a little premature.
However, I think our biggest concerns about last year's O-line will quickly be resolved with new coaching, "real world" playcalling and a solid pass-catching RB, if we can pick one up. Also, I would expect at least one or two key FA signings along the line.
One thing that I hope has been brought up here (and apologies if I'm repeating anything) is outside of the offensive system of Marty Morhinweg, Garcia has been atrocious. He ran that system last year, and in his best days with the 49ers.
Yes, he posted stellar years in 2000 and 2006, but the horrible performances in 2003&04 can't be forgotten.
I fear we're in for more of the same if he's our starter on opening day.
The upside of Garcia is that Knapp knows him very well. It was the Knapp offense that Garcia was running in SF. Morhinweg was the QB coach.
The thing that always weirded me out about Garcia is that he looks exactly like the kid with the banjo in the movie, "Deliverence."
In my view, the signing of Garlic Boy Garcia will ONLY be "minty fresh" IF we draft JRuss or Quinn. If we draft a 2nd tier QB to develop, we will be in bad shape and back at the QB table again in 2008.
Under scenario 1, we have a vet QB capable of starting, being a back-up and mentor AND a franchise type QB. Going forward into 2008, we have the franchise QB with 1 year under his belt and possibly some playing experience plus a serviceable back-up (AW). Scenario 1 is building towards long term success.
Under scenario 2, in 2008 we have a vet QB who would be 38, on the down-side of his career, and possibly recovering from an injury. We have the draftee who more than likely we would know nothing about, and AW. In other words, in 2008 (after possibly releasing Garcia) we would have AW and a still developing QB. Basically, a #2 and a #3 but no #1. Scenario 2 is a temporary band-aid solution.
In my opinion we need to take a crack at a #1 type QB through the draft so we can set the foundation for future years of QB stability.
BR,
Another positive about Garcia is his ability to make something happen from a busted play.
He is almost like a poor man's Tarkenton, in that he will scramble around, and then, suddenly find an open receiver down field.
This will come in handy playing behind Oak's in flux 0-line.
Lookin like the banjo kid is fine, just so long as he don't look like the hillbilly jumpin on Ned Beatie
I say sign Garcia, draft C JOhnson, and AWal will get better with new coaching and C Johnson. As Raider Fans we should be predisposed to 30 year old QB's and drafting the guy who runs a 4.31 40 at the combine. I think we could probably trade Moss for a 2nd or 3rd plus a player he really hurt his value by taking plays off... The Raiders are on the clock
I don't even see Garcia as a short-term answer. I think we can do just as well with Walter and an improved OL.
It is official. Per ESPN, the Bucs signed Garcia.
What are the new 'vet QB' alternatives? Brad Johnson? Tim Rattay?
Perhaps that the Raiders didn't want to spend "starter" money on a veteran QB is indicative of their intention to draft Russell or Quinn.
Brad Johnson has his moments, but would get creamed behind our line. At least Garcia is mobile.
I wasn’t in love with the idea of signing Garcia, but he was the best available.
With Plummer threatening to retire and Garcia gone, we're quickly running out of options here. Maybe we draft two QB's...?
Now it looks like Tampa might get Garcia and Plummer. Wow! They're really cramping our style. Also, what will Tui do now that Gruden isn't going to sign him?
I'm copying this comment from my updated take:
There's a school of thought out there that we don't need a proven QB veteran, that we can simply charge ahead with Russell or Quinn, Walter and a scrub to be named later. I haven't enrolled in that school. The Raiders have never embraced youth at the quarterback position, and now suddenly we're going to be exclusively about youth at the quarterback position? How about some balance. How about identifying and selecting our quarterback of the future, and then securing a savvy veteran to help bridge the gap between experience and inexperience? We need a plan, and I think a savvy veteran is crucial to this plan. I'm not talking about the herky-jerky stuff we pulled with Collins and Tui in 2005 and Brooks and Walter in 2006, but an actual plan the unfolds over the next several seasons, in which the torch is handled with care and then, at the opportune moment, handed over.
It looks like Garcia is gone. There aren't that many options for the Raiders out there right now. The Jets did release Patrick Ramsey Friday, but David Carr is still a Texan. Now that Plummer is saying he'll retire, the Texans are probably more inclined to keep Carr rather than try to trade him. Of course, a lot of things can change before the draft.
RT: I'm on board with that theory (bringing a veteran to handle the torch with TLC), but it's not lookin' good at this point.
Signing other players seems empty without a solid and proven signal-caller.
Looks more and more like Plan A from your update, i.e., it's Russell/Quinn or bust for the Raiders!
Almost forgot, the Raiders MIGHT just bring back Aaron Brooks for less(GULP).
Maybe the Raiders read this article by Dan Pompei:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=buyaqbplandoesntgetapass&prov=tsn&type=lgns
garcia wanted a gauranteed starting job anyway. no way we could promise him that here. if the raiders end up trading for a vet ie: david carr you can forget about russell. or quinn for that matter. the only way to fill the QB void this year is to trade for one. forget about russell because davis isn't gonna draft him. the old man doesn't have time to wait around 3-4 years to develop a QB.
from what i read earlier, the cheaper way to go would be to get brad johnson. although i don't agree with this tactic that way, he could compete with walter for the starting job.
trade down a couple spots and get peterson or johnson - calvin that is.
We definitely need a savvy veteran at QB, footballs hardest position. I'm not dissapointed we didn't get Garcia cause I didn't really see him as a good fit.
This offseason is going to be full of excitement, drama and surprises. Last year was dull with the biggest headline being the abolishment of PSL's. Two years ago we had a busy offseason when traded for Moss, resigned Porter, franchised Woodson, signed Burgess and drafted Morrison and Walter.
So with the combine, the draft, free agency and potential trades looming you can be sure that every decision (or potential decision) will be reviewed, analyzed, debated, and broke down here. Nothing gets by Raider Take, somebody always breaks the story or mentions a hot juicy rumor usually before major sport news sites.
Pompei has a point, and we can point to Jeff George, Kerry Collins and Aaron Brooks to prove it.
A total reliance on free agency to define your QB position is a risky business indeed.
But let's say Tui were to stick around, or we got someone else just like him to fill out the third spot on the depth chart. Let's say we we also picked Russell or Quinn and kept Walter, which is what most of us are advocating. That would mean our ENTIRE quarterback depth chart would have around 10 TOTAL professional starts under its belt.
To ignore free agency and an experienced veteran presence at this point would just seem weird to me.
Since the FA pool of QBs is so limited, it might force Al's hand to draft JRuss and have him start from day 1. I totally agree that the QB depth chart MUST include a veteran QB whether or not the vet is a capable #1.
At this point I don't think Carr or Schaub are realistic options. Sad to say but it looks like it will come down to either Rattay, Ramsey, or Johnson. I don't see Tui or Brooks as viable options to bring back.
Ultimately, if JRuss starts from day 1 it just accelerates the learning curve and the Raiders future success. Somehow, some way, if JRuss is the starter, the Raiders will need to improve the rushing attack to take some of the pressure off of the rookie QB.
Posted on PFT:
"BUCS TO SHIP PLUMMER TO RAIDERS?
There's speculation in league circles that the Tampa Bay Buccaneers will eventually trade quarterback Jake Plummer to the Oakland Raiders.
The thinking is that the Raiders are interested in acquiring Plummer as a short-term starter while expected No. 1 overall pick JaMarcus Russell gets ready to play, but that there's no way that the Raiders and Broncos ever could have done business together.
Enter the Bucs, who could end up being the straw man for a deal that puts Plummer in silver and black.
Stay tuned."
I with RT on this one. I really don't want a player on our club who has seriously contemplated retirement. If his heart & soul isn't into playing football then forget about it. To me it would be a waste of cap space and a roster spot.
per PFT
BUCS TO SHIP PLUMMER TO RAIDERS?
""There's speculation in league circles that the Tampa Bay Buccaneers will eventually trade quarterback Jake Plummer to the Oakland Raiders.
The thinking is that the Raiders are interested in acquiring Plummer as a short-term starter while expected No. 1 overall pick JaMarcus Russell gets ready to play, but that there's no way that the Raiders and Broncos ever could have done business together.
Enter the Bucs, who could end up being the straw man for a deal that puts Plummer in silver and black.
Stay tuned.""
The Raiders and Denver hate each other dealing with each other would be sacrilegious and blasphemous. I like that we need an intermediary between us. Part of being a Raider fan is you have to despise Denver and KC. F%^& Denver.
I'm not crazy about Plummer either,
unless he came really cheap. Plummer is mobile, but he isn't a smart QB and I question his desire and passion for the game. The only thing I like about Plummer is he flipped off the Denver fans.. ..
Bama7
Blanda Rock that's classic... Garcia looks like the deliverance boy! I'll never be able to look at Garcia again after that. If they do a re-make of the movie that role is his. Creepy.
I think Carr would be the only QB acquisition that would keep us from drafting a QB. If we sign Johnson then we'll know we're getting a QB in the draft. Either that of Kiffen wants to give Walter a shot. Walter's arms look like pipe cleaners hanging out of his jersey. It's hard to get excited about a guy that is so weak looking & immobile and has shown no ability to change into a better play at the line.
Let's get Jemarcus and throw his big ass in there for better or for worse. I like Brad Johnson as a mentor for him and I also like Travis Henry as a RB option. Lamont Jordan simply dances too damn much.
And I have always thought Donnie Edwards was a really solid football player. Our young defense could really benefit from this guy. Lastly, switch Schweigert to SS and make huff our FS.
Maybe if Plummer rolls out on every play. Aw heck, I can't stand the thought of Jake the Fake in Silver & Black. Aaron Brooks last year and now the possibility of Jake Plummer? I'd rather just start a rookie and let him learn under fire.
Please, no more talk about B players like Plummer, Ramsey, & Rattay !!
Are the Raiders trying to get better, or worse ??
In my mind, the way to get better is to sign impact players, even if it may be in an area that is not our biggest need.
The Raiders would be crazy if they didn't make a big pitch for Patrick Kerney.
I know, I know, the salary cap !!!
But I'm sitting here watching the news come in that 9ers sign Clements to the richest free agent contract ever.
The Bucs have signed one starting Qb. and traded for another.
So I'm asking, where the hell is all this money coming from ??
Don't these teams have to deal with the cap ??
My experience with the cap is that, where there's a will, there's a way.
The Raiders can find/free up the money to get an impact player like Kerney if they're creative about it.
It sure would be better than signing some stiff Qb, just because we need a QB.
To tell you the truth, Walter can throw picks just as well as Plummer, and for a lot less money $$$$!!!!
Let the Bucs find another sucker to take Plummer off their hands. We can use the money we save for a good football player instead.
Raider 00 - I agree that signing Rattay, Ramsey, or Johnson would not be the most exciting news but there are a few points to consider;
(1) It is imperative to have a vet QB on our roster. There is no way you go into the season with a depth chart of QBs with less than combined starts. Of all the vet QB options who would you take?
(2) The aforementioned QBs are not going to break the bank but fill a vital role.
(3) With our limited cap space it makes no sense to overpay for a player like Kerney since:
(a) our D is mostly set
(b) DE should improve with Kelly & Huntley
(c) we need to use the little bit of cap space we have to reserve for our draft picks and maybe sign a tier 1 offensive FA (ie Graham) and 1-2 role players.
Calico,
When you say our defense is set, I can't agree.
Our offense may be a train wreck, but the D can use some improvement as well.
The fact is, the list of impact free agents is dwindling very quickly.
The Donkey's have already made 3 trades, the 9ers are off and running, the Pats made a good move.
All the while the Raiders are sitting back, moving at a snails pace.
Before long, all the decent free agents will be gone, and only the "Aaron Brooks" types will be left. Same as last year.
The Raiders won 2 thin games last season, we cannot settle for the crumbs of free agencey.
Calico,
One other point. You say why "overpay" for Kerney ? I don't understand this.
Kerney is a player that can get you 7 to 10 sacks. What price tag would you put on that ?
The Raiders have been paying Brayton a pretty good salary to record zero sacks.
Now that's an overpayment to me.
The Raiders won 2 thin games last season, we cannot settle for the crumbs of free agencey.
1. Why would the plums of free agency want to play with a team that has won less games than any other team in the last four years, unless we are going to start throwing ridiculous amounts of money at them (which we don't have in the first place?)
2. The Raiders need to start showing some patience in BUILDING a team instead of buying one. We hit the lottery with Gannon... and look what it got us now... frigging MOSS.
Patience. This team will be competitive next season which will make it easier to pick up prizes like you have your eyes on this year. We need to simply get back to respectability... not think we have a SB team every year.
gary - patience is exactly what we need. which is why we should NOT get russell. build the foundation around the QB FIRST. after all, you can't build a house without a foundation. meaning o-line, stud RB etc. we're NOT going ANYWHERE anytime soon so we might as well be patient and do it RIGHT 'cause this thing's gonna take a few years to rebuild. anyone who thinks we're not in a rebuilding mode is in denial or smoking something.
Gary,
The problem with your patience theory is, if you take a good 2, or 3 years to build up the offense, you might find, by that time, the defense is beginning to break down.
The Raiders D is very good right now. I believe the thing to do is to make them Great !!
Let's add Kerney, I wouldn't be oppossed to trading down, and drafting DT Alan Branch as well.
The model to follow is the 2000 Ravens.
We should try to win our games next year by crushing teams with our D, and scoring what we can with our Offense.
Qb Garcia would have been a nice fit in this regard, but not to be.
We would need to beef up the running attack also.
It is possible.
That's how I see it.
Raider00: Interesting theory to add “A” players on D, but that would only exacerbate the separation between the O and the D. How many YEARS do you want to spend on this project? And what about team morale when you don’t address the weakest areas? You think the D players --- which have a solid chemistry --- are going to embrace their replacements.
This is a young D, and will continue to get better on their own. No need to bring in high-priced FA to disrupt what is already good and getting better.... particularly when D is not our problem.
Who is going to be your QB? Who is going to backup your QB? Who is going to backup your backup QB? Who’s going to run the ball? Who’s going block for run and pass? Who’s your TE? Who’s going to catch passes out of the backfield?
Adding All-Pro D players might seem sexy (and I for one like D more than O), but one can’t survive without the other. Having the best D in the NFL won’t do squat if they’re on the field 35-40 minutes a game, and you're O goes 3-and-out every time.
Haven't had a chance to read everyone else's takes, but my take on why Garcia signed with the Bucs is both good news for those of us who want to see the Raiders draft JRuss and for AWal.
There is no guarantee that Garcia will start in TB. There are two other QB starters at TB, and they can't think of Garcia in the long term. Why this is good news for Awal is that I don't think the Raiders were willing to guarantee that Garcia would even be the 2nd team QB.
They wouldn't want JRuss, if drafted 1st, to be any lower on the depth chart than 2, because they want him to have the playing time if the starter goes down. If they decide they are ready to start JRuss, then they want Awal to have sufficient playing time to make him trade bait. To me it shows that the Raiders prefered 1 and 2 are whomever they draft and Awal.
Raider00
The model to follow is the 2000 Ravens.
We should try to win our games next year by crushing teams with our D, and scoring what we can with our Offense.
Just as we hit the lottery with Gannon (and NE hit the lottery with Brady) Balt simply hit the lottery that year. The NFL was horrible all around that year. A great defense alone might not even make it out of the AFC West next year, let alone get us far in the playoffs with NE and Indy. Now if we were in the NFC, I'd be with you here. We could be one of the top teams in the NFC. It aint so. We need POINTS in the AFC in the coming years.
scorpio said...
gary - patience is exactly what we need. which is why we should NOT get russell. build the foundation around the QB FIRST. after all, you can't build a house without a foundation. meaning o-line, stud RB etc.
Hmmm... I'd argue that the QB IS the foundation in the NFL, and I know you don't think we should pick Russell, but I suggest you buck it up. If you pay attention to Al's drafting patterns in the last 6-7 years, you will see that he ATTACKS our weaknesses through the draft... and right now QB is our biggest weakness hands down (he prolly thought Walter might have been the real-deal last year).
Russell looks like the surest thing. He's a Raider already. Sorry.
Raider 00 - The D should continue to improve under the leadership of Rob Ryan and the continued development of the mostly young squad.
3 facts are indisputable
(1) The Raiders have limited cap space
(2) This is a weak FA class
(3) The Raiders had the worst offense in the league (and some could argue the worst offense in modern history)
The old adage of "getting the most bang for our buck" would not include signing a DE who is a luxury not a necessity. How the Raiders spend their $ and build the team is a matter of setting priorities and making difficult choices.
I believe most of our focus (and resources) should go to improving our offense.
One additional point that’s been made in the media (maybe I read it from Jerry McDonald): with the added cap space this year, quick-fix FA’s are looking for top dollar and getting it.
Instead of playing that ridiculous game, the Raiders should concentrate on purging players for draft picks. Let’s find a new home for Mr. Moss and some of his friends... Mr. Jordan, Mr. Anderson, and some of the other Hitler youth (sorry about the Animal House reference).
There are more prospects in the draft than in FA, and the price is right for a Raider team with little cap space. With more picks, we can afford to look at a couple RB’s, OL, TE, etc., and address our real weaknesses (for the long term).
I think we all agree this thing is NOT going to happen over night, and using the draft might be our best option right now. Remember, our new coach is a top scout of college talent.
Let me just say that I am not suggesting that the Raiders ignore the Offensive side of the ball.
It just seemns to me that the Raiders are a lot closer to having a great defense, then they are to having a great offense.
In my mind, you have to be great on one side of the ball, and good on the other, in order to win the SB.
How many years will it take to make the Raiders offense a great unit ??
What if JRuss goes bust, how long then ??
To those who are saying that the Raiders defense is "set, or "not a problem", remember this.
You will not win many games in the NFL if you can't stop the run.
And for all the good things the Raiders defense did last year, they did not stop the run all that well. If fact, they were poor.
Try to imagine a starting front four of Burgess, Sapp, Branch, & Kerney taking the field in September.
Now picture rotating in Sands, Kelly, & Huntly.
Yes, add what we can to the offense, but keep building up the D until they are great.
Raider 00 - I too want to have a great D not just a good D. I also realize that our run defense needs to improve. However, to take Branch with our 1st round pick and use the majority of our cap dollars on Kerney would not be sensible.
I think we can improve our rush D incrementally in the following ways;
(1) Using Kelly & Huntley at DE as opposed to Brayton who was horrible holding up against the point of attack
(2) Increased snaps of Sands at DT
(3) Improved play of Antaaj Hawthorne whose college HC said was the best D-lineman he has ever coached and was a lock 1st round if not for a positive marijuana test at the combine.
(4) Better use of our SS in run support. I personally would love to see Huff moved to FS and Bing play SS. I think that both men are natural fits for for FS & SS respectively. I know Kiffin understands what a great SS Bing was at USC.
(5) More consistent play at SLB from Thomas as opposed to Sam Willimas' disappearing act on the field.
(6) And last but not least, our run defense will improve if and when our offense is more productive. TOP, field position, playing with a lead all are important facets to dictating what the opposing offense is able to do.
Taking Grant with the 1st pick and signing Kerney in my estimation would in fact be neglecting our most obvious weakness which is the offense.
With limited cap space and a weak FA class, it would be foolish to overspend on FAs who will make very little impact. Identifying role players and drafting wisely would seem to be the best avenue for sustained improvement.
>>>>
Try to imagine a starting front four of Burgess, Sapp, Branch, & Kerney taking the field in September.
Now picture rotating in Sands, Kelly, & Huntly.
>>>>>
That would be cool!
Although losing every game 7-3 would kinda suck ass... let alone being the most boring shit ever imagined.
We had like 8 starters on D last year with 4 years or less experience and we did fine despite being 28th in TOP. Our defense could be "great" with just some tweaking.
We need points now and in the future. A great defense might make us 8-8 for quite awhile in the AFC west, but thats about it.
Calico,
So far, I've counted zero free agents signed by the Raiders, so I guess we don't have to worry about them running out of cash any time soon.
Gary,
There's no doubt that exciting offense trumps gritty defense any day, but tell me the plan to build up the offense ?
Is it draft Jruss, and pray ?
The defense is only a player or two away from being great, and that is the realistic path to take.
I don't like seeing the Broncos name everywhere looking into signing or trading for a better team and we sit around doing very little. I mean, I'm sure there are things on the horizon (possibly Graham), but can we at least pursue some OL help or at least hear about Oakland's interest in different players for a better team?
sorry, just having a little rant
rt you and the rest of the faida fanatics got it wrong again, the word out is that "mike the prick vick" will be the "man". big al (MR.) davis aka "the genius" will take your pirate ship all the way to the bottom of the abyss. The other funny part to this is that "mamby pamby mossy man" and "j porty" will be part of the deal to get "vicks vapo flub". Cheer up faida cross dressers, you not only get a PROVEN shitty qb, you get a qb who will run for more yards than any rb you guys have on the "team" I guess this means curtains for "lamont sanford" Ha ha ha ha ha, I can't wait to watch the faidas, how much more disfunctional can a "team" get? Just cringe and fold up into the fetal position now babies. 0-16.....Gooooooo "miss kiffy"
The Raiders don't possess the luxury to be stupid like the 9ers and shell out $80 million, especially to a Defensive Back. Come on people? That is just ridiculous, no one and I mean no one is worth that kind of money.
Pretty soon it will be like baseball. Buying championship teams is a fade now. Just take a look at the Redskins, how many rings have they won since Danny is handing out all the bags of money?
Anyways, the bottom line here is that the Raiders certainly can't blow their money around. And in FA they may not make big splashes, but they will do well in the Draft and afterwards.
Stay tuned in the coming weeks, Al Davis will try to pull another rabbit out of his hat. We will still make the headlines, but not like most teams are doing. I mean the Bills signed L. Walker to a $25 million contract? What are they thinking?
Remember Davis wants his money to work for him, not the other way around.
i find it incredibly hard to believe the whiners spent that much on clements. what's john dork trying to prove by over spending? i mean, we're not even talking about champ bailey type skills here and he got $80 freakin mil? 22 of that gauranteed?
damn folks, that just drove up the price big time of signing nnamdi to an extension.
thanks a lot freakin whiners for over spending! i hope what happens here is that nnamdi does get his extension based on what he's done in the past and for a "potential" to be better. iow, i hope he gets an incentive based contract. time and consistency speak volumes. he'll get his! after all, he is a student of the game.
I just read that Daniel Graham (TE-Patriots) and Travis Henry (RB-Titans) are coming to Oak-town for a visit. Graham will definitely not be going back to NE after they shafted him for old man Brady (who hasn't done a thing in 3-4 years). Good luck with that.
Travis Henry would also be a nice addition to the backfield, and we'd be able to rid the sub-par LaMont Jordan. We may even get his services at a reasonable price, and he's quicker than Dayne, and a hard hitter like Dayne. That would be a great move on our end.
As far as Garcia, he is not guaranteed a starting job in Tampa; not with Simms and/or Plummage (if he doesn't retire) there. He should have signed with the Raiders if he wanted a "starting" job. Which is probably better in the long run. If you read his comments that he wanted to win now, so did Gannon, but Gannon also wanted to lead, and make a difference. My take about him being comparable to Gannon was wrong. He is nothing like Gannon. He wants everyone else to carry his jock, instead of being a leader that drives/makes everyone around him better. We don't need another idiot that expects everyone else to carry him. I'm now glad we didn't sign Garcia. I apologize for my wrong assessments of him. He will NEVER be anywhere close to Gannon because he will NEVER be a leader that Gannon was.
It's already been pointed out that this is a weak FA class, so I like what the Raiders are doing...being patient. There will be another round of cuts and more veteran QBs will be available, like Trent Green. Also--look at Minnesota and the Redskins--they are going with Tarvaris with like 4 games experience and Campbell with about 7. I would rather start JaMarcus with 0 games experience than either of those two, so maybe not having a vet back up isn't horrible.
Getting Travis Henry for cheaper than Lamont and cutting Jordan would be great. Henry is gutsy and I can see him working well even behind a reshuffling OL. Mixed in with Fargas and Crockett, I think we can put up a stable enough running attack to help whoever starts in week one from making too many hospital visits or simply visits to the turf. Graham would also be excellent in blocking and decent enough in receiving to make an impact.
Here's hopin' the persuasive juices are flowing in Oakland.
Based on what the Raiders have done so far, I think the Raiders basic plan is to sign both a QB and an RB in this draft.
For these two critical positions, you need veteran leadership to serve as a mentors to bring these rookies along. Calico is quite correct in that this is one of the worst FA classes in years.
The Raiders failed to get Garcia because they wouldn't guarantee his position on the depth chart, and Garcia's most questionalble ability is his ability to serve as a mentor. That's the reason the Raiders would not attempt to outbid the Bucs. The Raiders may sigh Henry to mentor a rookie RB.
It is clear that the Raiders can't just sign Henry, because that leaves them only with Henry and Fargas. They released Lee. So you can count on a rookie being in this mix.
The Raiders appear to be prepared to run with this same OL, with perhaps only one new addition (an OT). The Raiders seem content with this WR corps (at least for now) whether or not we retain Moss.
As for defense, all of our starters and most of our depth is already under contract. Any additions will come from practice squads and lower round draft picks. We can improve our defense, but the Raiders seem to feel that the offense is currently the most important.
But the Raiders have already exposed their priorities. 1. Draft a QB. 2. sign a veteran QB mentor. 3. draft an RB. 4. sign a veteran RB mentor. 5. sign a FA TE (the most talent rich position in FA). 6. Draft a FB. 7. Draft or sign a FA OT.
ok back to the QB thing..... folks, if you insist on a QB, then i'd rather have Troy Smith than Jabba-The-Russell (funny eh? borrowed from one of the SJ Merc forum posters).
He has more experience not to mention a Heisman! We can probably get him in the 2nd round.
Quinn looked good in his pro day from what i read. he made every pass asked of him.
I would rather see Carr here via trade and work on other offensive positions that need attention than QB. Look for the Raiders to trade down and get Peterson or Johnson (soon as we trade Moss). It makes more sense to trade down than to keep this first pick.
raider00 said...
>>>
There's no doubt that exciting offense trumps gritty defense any day, but tell me the plan to build up the offense ?
Is it draft Jruss, and pray ?
>>>>>
Don't panic yet 00. What we see now are teams with extra cap-space over-spending... if a player like Walker can get 25 million, this is indeed a horrible FA class. He is a BACKUP at best.
Al always has some tricks up his sleeves.
The calvary is around the corner.
Remember, all we need is 7 more points a game from last year for 6 more wins. I'd take 8-8 without mortgaging our future with over-priced FA's.
Scorp-
I'm just not feeling David Carr or Troy Smith when JaMarcus is sitting there. I agree we need an upgrade at RB -- there will be good RBs in RD 2 with little drop off talent wise from AP and Lynch [whereas the QB talent drop off is big]. Another big plus as far as the offense goes is having coaches who actually know something about offense--instead of running the playbook from Jurassic Park high school....
Draft words of wisdom from Pat Kirwan:
http://nfl.com/draft/story/10038014
Don't we have some major roster bonuses due by Wed? One that I recall reading about is Lamont "Tip-Toe" Jordan. We need to release Jordan and hand his entire pay check to Nnamdi.
Can't the Raiders just do the right thing and sign this kid up for the next century? Come on Al! Imagine being under contract and having to work for about a fifth your true worth. That's enough to piss anyone off. Time for a raise.
ESPN is reporting Broncos signed RB Travis Henry; Bears traded RB Thomas Jones to the Jets; and Dolphins released TE McMichael.
Wow! Henry and Jones are both solid backs. Please don't tell me we're going to continue to overpay Jordan and do nothing about it!
We could really use McMichael. He's a top five TE in the NFL.
this guy from the boston globe is an a$$hole!
here is my e-mail exchange with him:
Wow. You're deathly serious. What I take as a lighthearted exchange, you take as a blatant sign of my unprofessionalism. To each his own.
Believe it or not, that comment in the story wasn't meant to be a shot at the Raiders, but an accurate representation of feelings around the league about what it's like to try to deal with them right now.
Oh well. You have a nice day, too.
John
as a matter of fact, no i am not. i'm pretty disgusted about the
whole thing, especially being a season ticket holder and all. but
that's way beside the point and has nothing to do with our exchange. i couldn't help but notice your jab at the end there. journalists
are supposed to be unbiased and professional. that comment of yours
was neither. it doesn't matter what i say. i'm a nobody. but by the fact that you chose to be unprofessional again and respond with yet another jab well, that gives me an idea of what you are made of. writers here in the bay area for the most part are not like that. but i guess some writers like to create a stir to get
readership/subscriptions up. to each his own i guess.
have a nice day john.
Scorpio
----- Original Message ----
From: John A. Tomase jtomase@bostonherald.com>
To: Scorpio scorpio5t9@yahoo.com
Sent: Monday, March 5, 2007 9:39:24 AM Subject: Re: your article today
Love the signoff. All I can say is Sugar Bear barely TOUCHED Stabler.
I can only assume you're a Raiders fan, so let me ask you this --
are you happy with the direction your once-proud franchise has
taken in the last couple of years?
Thanks for writing, and keep reading.
John
On Mon, 5 Mar 2007 09:23:54 -0800 (PST), Scorpio wrote
http://patriots.bostonherald.com/
patriots/view.bg?articleid=186445
you know what guy? you are such a homer. you reporters are "supposed" to be unbiased in your reporting. and thats just what it's supposed to be REPORTING. nobody asked for your opinion about the raiders. no need for your bullcrap comments like this:
"The Pats also need to strike a deal with what is considered a
rudderless ship in Oakland, thanks to owner Al Davis and a depleted
front office."
i guess you east coast guys don't know much about what an actual
reporter does. which is why most papers there are nothing more than
gossip rags. oh and by the way..... it WAS a fumble.
At first I thought you were talking about Ron Borges. He's got problems with charges of plagiarism and hating on the hometown Pats. I guess The Globe has some problems with its reporters.
In regards to Lamont Jordan, Jerry McDonald reported the following today:
Jordan to stay
Posted by Jerry McDonald - NFL Writer on March 5th, 2007
Running back LaMont Jordan agreed to cut his roster bonus from $4.75 million to $3 million Monday and remain a member of the Oakland Raiders.
Jordan was due the $4.75 million Wednesday. Had he refused to renegotiate, it's possible the Raiders would have released him and he could have entered the lucrative open market.
Denver signed running back Travis Henry Monday to a deal which included $12 million in guaranteed money. Ahman Green signed with Houston with a reported $6.5 million in guarantees.
Henry and Green were both scheduled to visit the Raiders but signed before they got to Alameda.
According to Jordan's agent, Alvin Keels, Jordan's base salary this season will remain $1 million, improving to $4.7 million next season and $5 million in 2008.
"LaMont understands that there was a great possibility in today's market to earn more money elsewhere had the Raiders decided not to pay him his original bonus amount," Keels said by e-mail. "However, he is committed to helping this organization turn things around and as result made the compromise on the roster bonus adjustment."
So we saved $1.75M by Jordan restructuring his contract. Even with Jordan coming back, I believe the Raiders need to draft the best available RB in the 2nd round (ie. Michael Bush or Kenny Irons) and I would also be pleased if we took Garrett Wolfe in the 5th/6th round. Wolfe compares very favorably to Warrick Dunn. He could be a 3rd down back, change of pace committee type back, and also a PR. He is a serious weapon if used properly.
Great update, Calico Jack.
I hope all that business about LaMont Jordan wanting to stick around and help the team is from the heart, and not just spin.
I'm not convinced the financial waters would part for LaMont if he were to hit the road, as his agent claims. He has been prone to injury, dropped passes and mental errors in his tenure as a starter, and he's averaging less than four yards per carry. Admittedly, the o-line has been weak, but the greatest backs transcend their circumstances.
On that note, I agree, we should target the RB position in the second round. Time to rebuild this offense from the ground floor.
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