Raider Take's War Room
1. Phil Barber of the Santa Rosa Press Democrat makes an interesting observation in his Raiders blog today, suggesting that there's a three-way split in Alameda regarding the draft, with separate camps favoring Calvin Johnson, Brady Quinn and JaMarcus Russell, with Al Davis in the latter camp. Barber wisely notes that it's largely hearsay, but unlike irresponsible Raiders rumors generated by the San Diego Union Tribune and other faraway sources, this one comes from a guy who has a close ear to the Alameda walls.
So let's run with it, let's assume it's true for the sake of discussion. Well, then I would reside with Mr. Davis in the Russell camp, as you already know. Brady Quinn just doesn't strike me as a future NFL quarterback of elite proportions. While any promising player can flop in the NFL, I look at it this way: Would I be more surpised if JaMarcus Russell or Brady Quinn emerged as an elite quarterback in the NFL? My answer is Brady Quinn. Thus, I don't trade down, and I go with Russell.
As far as Calvin Johnson, he may be a "can't-miss" receiver. He may be the best athlete in the draft. But do we need a receiver? We have Jerry Porter, Ronald Curry and, for now, Randy Moss. With the exception of the Colts, which of the eight teams in last year's divisional playoffs had a more talented receiving corps than Moss, Porter and Curry? Answer: None. Would it be smart for the Patriots to pick a quarterback in the first round this year? Would it be smart for the Chargers to pick a running back in the first round this year? So why should the Raiders pick a wide receiver in the first round?
2. Some have suggested that we should go heavy on offensive line picks after the first round. I disagree. Did we not select Paul McQuistan and Kevin Boothe in the third and sixth rounds last year? Are we not hanging in there with Robert Gallery, for better or worse? All of these guys were horrendously coached last year, so I'm not ready to totally write them off (as much as I'm tempted). I would like us to select a running back or run stuffer in the second round. When is the last time the Raiders selected a running back in the second round or higher? Answer: 12 years ago. When is the last time we had an elite running back? Do you see a connection? Conversely, I'm sick of seeing Larry Johnson, LaDanian Tomlinson and everyone else running roughshod over our defensive line at the worst possible moments. Look at our drafts over the past three years. We've selected a total of two defensive lineman, none higher than the sixth round. Do you see a connection?
3. The Raider Raza is hosting the draft day festivities at Ricky's in San Leandro. Alas, I can't make it, but it sounds like a good time. Check out the Raider Raza blog for details.
4. I'm not usually prone to commercialized plugs, but Steve from GCI Sports just wrote on behalf of Nike, and I'll give him credit for paying attention to what you all have to say here at Raider Take.
Here's what he wrote via email: "Considering your recent post regarding the trio of candidates being debated within Raider management, we thought some of the content from the site below might be of interest to your readers. JaMarcus Russell, Brady Quinn and Calvin Johnson are among the recent Nike signees featured at www.nikerookieclass.com. Raider Nation can check out background on Russell, Quinn and Johnson, as well as other top prospects including exclusive interview clips with the players, behind-the-scenes videos from a recent Nike photo shoot, a draft countdown widget and a number of action photos. Some interesting material that can start to give Raider Nation a slight feel for the type of player they could be getting. You can also access and download the press kit containing the official press release on the Nike signings and high-resolution imagery of all of the players. The draft countdown widget is a quick tool for interviews with all of the players. Please let us know if you have any questions…and best of luck to the silver-and-black in Kiffin’s debut season."
So let's run with it, let's assume it's true for the sake of discussion. Well, then I would reside with Mr. Davis in the Russell camp, as you already know. Brady Quinn just doesn't strike me as a future NFL quarterback of elite proportions. While any promising player can flop in the NFL, I look at it this way: Would I be more surpised if JaMarcus Russell or Brady Quinn emerged as an elite quarterback in the NFL? My answer is Brady Quinn. Thus, I don't trade down, and I go with Russell.
As far as Calvin Johnson, he may be a "can't-miss" receiver. He may be the best athlete in the draft. But do we need a receiver? We have Jerry Porter, Ronald Curry and, for now, Randy Moss. With the exception of the Colts, which of the eight teams in last year's divisional playoffs had a more talented receiving corps than Moss, Porter and Curry? Answer: None. Would it be smart for the Patriots to pick a quarterback in the first round this year? Would it be smart for the Chargers to pick a running back in the first round this year? So why should the Raiders pick a wide receiver in the first round?
2. Some have suggested that we should go heavy on offensive line picks after the first round. I disagree. Did we not select Paul McQuistan and Kevin Boothe in the third and sixth rounds last year? Are we not hanging in there with Robert Gallery, for better or worse? All of these guys were horrendously coached last year, so I'm not ready to totally write them off (as much as I'm tempted). I would like us to select a running back or run stuffer in the second round. When is the last time the Raiders selected a running back in the second round or higher? Answer: 12 years ago. When is the last time we had an elite running back? Do you see a connection? Conversely, I'm sick of seeing Larry Johnson, LaDanian Tomlinson and everyone else running roughshod over our defensive line at the worst possible moments. Look at our drafts over the past three years. We've selected a total of two defensive lineman, none higher than the sixth round. Do you see a connection?
3. The Raider Raza is hosting the draft day festivities at Ricky's in San Leandro. Alas, I can't make it, but it sounds like a good time. Check out the Raider Raza blog for details.
4. I'm not usually prone to commercialized plugs, but Steve from GCI Sports just wrote on behalf of Nike, and I'll give him credit for paying attention to what you all have to say here at Raider Take.
Here's what he wrote via email: "Considering your recent post regarding the trio of candidates being debated within Raider management, we thought some of the content from the site below might be of interest to your readers. JaMarcus Russell, Brady Quinn and Calvin Johnson are among the recent Nike signees featured at www.nikerookieclass.com. Raider Nation can check out background on Russell, Quinn and Johnson, as well as other top prospects including exclusive interview clips with the players, behind-the-scenes videos from a recent Nike photo shoot, a draft countdown widget and a number of action photos. Some interesting material that can start to give Raider Nation a slight feel for the type of player they could be getting. You can also access and download the press kit containing the official press release on the Nike signings and high-resolution imagery of all of the players. The draft countdown widget is a quick tool for interviews with all of the players. Please let us know if you have any questions…and best of luck to the silver-and-black in Kiffin’s debut season."
posted by Raider Take at 8:33 AM
81 Comments:
ann killion, al davis' gal pal says it all in this article:
http://www.mercurynews.com/
sportsheadlines/ci_5737967?
nclick_check=1
i find the article by phil barber a little hard to believe when he states that al davis wants russell. al davis wants russell over a fast, big, and athletic player? johnson is exactly an al davis type player.
LOOK, at this point folks, it doesn't really matter. russell, johnson, or even quinn, as long as they make the RIGHT decision. not just the right decision, but a wise one. one that will contribute IMMEDIATELY. we CANNOT be set back 10 years! not picking leinart last year? AL. making all those bumbling stumbling personnel moves over the years? AL. blowing EVERY single draft pick from Tampa. AL.
bottom line is, it all falls on al's shoulders. al is the raiders (unfortunately) so he MUST be smart and let this coaching staff pick the player THEY wanna pick.
5 more days to see if al will get us back on the road to respectability or 10 more years of LOSING!
RT:
Actually, I'm on board whether the Raiders draft Russell or Quinn. I don't think Johnson unless the they trade him for more picks. Just pulling the trigger on Johnson, and keeping him, I'll kind of view it as a wasted pick, at least for this year.
Scorpio:
I don't question your fanhood, but I've read enough Davis bashing articles for a lifetime, and 99.99% of them haven't a clue as to what they're talking about. But I'm also of the opinion that Davis likes it that way.
I once had a three day e-mail argument with Ray Ratto, who claimed that because the Raiders were litigating the LA territorial rights, Davis was intent on moving back there.
Well, businesses protect territorial rights every day. The Raiders, by virtue of mining the LA market while they were there, had created merchandise and broadcasting sales, a large percentage of which they would lose if another team moved to LA. Every business seeks to be compensated for things like that. (We saw it with the A's and the Giants regarding San Jose. The Giants weren't going to move there because they just built a new park.) The Kansas City cheifs sued the Huston Texans over the rights to the name "Texans." The Chiefs started as the Dallas Texans. Funny that Ratto never claimed that KC was going to change their name back to the Texans. But I think we all know that Ratto is an idiot.
Sports reporters lie about Davis for a couple of reasons. One is that they know that Davis won't correct the record, so they can get away with it (and even if he does, they'll just say he's lying i.e., Leinart). The other reason is that he's Darth Raider (the clasic villian). If you don't have anything BAD to say about Al Davis, don't say anything at all.
So, spare me, Scorpio. Been there, done that. Most of it's crap, IMHO.
Scorpio:
Admit it now. No matter who the Raiders pick, if that pick works out it was Kiffin's choice. If it doesn't, it was Al's choice. Right?
Why do I love the Raiders:
Plain and simple because they are outcasts, they are rebels and they don't back down from their believes, they don't make excuses and they don't appologize, overall it works, I don't care what the mediots have to say, it does bother me! but you know, at the end of the day I know that the joke is on them, I buy into our system.
Being a Raider fan takes a lot of responsibility, believe it when I say that we are against the world, I haven't met a single Raider's fan that likes any other football team, we are very prejudist, we only care about one thing and that is our football team, therefore all the hate towards the Raiders, these people don't get it, they can't understant such love for a team.
raiderdecoachella
blanda you're right. that's just the way it is.
of course his MASSIVE ego won't allow himself to admit mistakes. as long as al davis lives, this is the way it's gonna be. gotta get to class!
We don’t need a receiver, nor should we prioritize such in the draft. The scouts are probably right about Calvin Johnson, but he’s not right for the Raiders. However, if we stumble onto a “steal” at WR AFTER the first round, I could certainly understand making that selection, but not #1.
Besides, IMO, Moss will likely play for the Raiders next year. If you haven’t already, check out this YouTube link with Nnamdi. I think the Raiders players more or less embrace Moss, despite what we believe or what’s reported in the media.
Like RT, I too am in the "Al Davis camp" of JaMarcus Russell supporters. However, I must say I’m a little weirded out with the thought that Kiffin may want Quinn over Russell, despite Al. Now I have to question my loyalty, because I have placed all my faith in Kiffin and will support whatever he needs to do to bring us back to respectability.
Can’t wait to see what happens!
Sorry. Here's the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wq0_uGqzsQ
Someday, I'll learn how to use my computer.
Well, I would have to say I am in the Russell camp. However, if there were to be some trade and we got Quinn + more picks, I wouldn't be heartbroken. I like the fact that Quinn, while physically strong, tends to focus himself on the mental part of the game. If we were to get Quinn instead, Kiffin and himself would be a good pair to lead this team. Of course, that's circumstantial, if we stay at 1, take Russell.
2nd round I would really like the idea of getting Kalil from USC and developing him behind Newberry to be our center next year and beyond. Then shoot for a D-lineman in the 3rd and hope Bush from Louisville falls to us with the next pick.
My personal opinion is that a WR isn't in the cards, especially if there is truth to the rumor that Kiff is interested in Detroit's Williams. We will hold pat at WR.
Then it comes down to whether we can get something by trading down for Quinn, or if we just pull the trigger on JRuss.
As for the later rounds, my guess is we go for RBs, OLs, DTs and TEs. One of the most important units this year re draft choices? Special Teams!
I think all of this "heresay" reporting is really Al Davis' and the Raiders Organizations' way of "smoke screening" who they are going after. This is what Al Davis does best, is he keeps everyone guessing, just so he can point his finger at the media and exclaim, "WHO'S THE IDIOT NOW, KNOW-IT-ALL?"
Again, the "inside" portion of these rumors could be legite, or it could be the writers getting together and collecting their thoughts as being "expert." It could be legitimate in the fact that Mike Lombardi is still leaking all over himself; trying to vy for a position with the Raiders when it's all said and done.
I wouldn't be too surprised with whom or what the Raiders do with their pick. That is what I love about them, they surprise you.
Remember last year, most of the "writers" had Young or Leinart falling to the Raiders before the draft; while most of the fans were calling out Huff. Who did we get? Huff.
This year, the majority of the writers and fans seem to be on the same page with Russell (with the exception of a few). I think the writers have been hitting our blogs, and using us as a "inside source" of information.
I'm sure, if there is any discussion, Al Davis wants to be sold on the players that the scouts, and the coaching staff want over his. Again, living up to his reputation, they have to convince him.
Bottom line, whomever we pick, or if we trade the pick, we better get immediate impact players because I don't want to live through another 2-14 record, or worse.
with ya, RT. JaMarcus and then a D-lineman in R2 or late R1 [there are some strong D-linemen, it may be that we move up with our second pick to snag one], and if the big bastard from AZ [TE who's name I'm gapping on right now] slips to R3, wow.
Zack Miller, ASU
checked out that Nike site...they should think about fixing Adrian Peterson's ('Adrien'). dunno how much he'd love to have his sponsor misspell his name
RT, great take, but there's one thing I have to slightly disagree with.
I can see where you're coming from with "would the Patriots take a QB" or "would the Chargers pick a RB", but the big difference in those examples is that Tom Brady and LT are pretty much ensconced with their teams for the foreseeable future.
However, with Moss and Porter both as good as they are, there are still considerable question marks over their heads for the season. Porter's supposedly got a better attitude this year, but you can't just write off what happened last year as being completely Art Shell's fault. And, depending on what articles you read, Moss is either looking forward to this year, or he told Lane Kiffin to go @@#%$ !%&@#.
At this point, I've heard enough negative press about Quinn to lean towards either Jamarcus or Calvin Johnson as my preferences...although I don't think I'd be disappointed if they ultimately decided on Quinn. I think a lot is going to depend on whether or not Moss and/or Porter are moved by Saturday. If so, it might be imminent that Calvin Johnson is the choice. If not, it's probably going to be Jamarcus.
But enough about the #1 pick, what's going on with pick #33?
Also, is anyone hosting a chat room for the draft on Saturday? The only draft parties I'm going to find here in NJ are Eagles or Giants based ones and who the hell needs that?
Raider Take,
I agree that Jruss is the elite athlete, not Quinn.
I also agree that Jruss will be the better pro.
But having said that, it wouldn't surprise me if Quinn won more championships than Jruss.
It's the Qb that is place in the right situation, more so than skill level, that determines the success they will have in the NFL.
It's happened before, it can happen again.
I think QB, and prefer Brady. When they focus on a negative for a QB that comes up in the draft, it's either mental or physical - he either makes bad decisions (lacks the mental) or doesn't have the arm strength to make the throw (lacks the physical). While I don't think there is a question that Russell is more physically imposing, I don't think Quinn is lacking in that regard. And with Quinn being touted for his study habits, it just seems he is the safer pick, and likely to succeed.
Regardless, we need a QB. Any team that is dominant for a period of time has a strong relationship between coach and QB. Our history has Gruden/Gannon, Flores/Plunkett, and Madden/Stabler. It can sometimes be at the OC level - Manning/Moore or Brady/Weis, but it's there just the same. How many coaches are known for their attachment to a wide out? With the RB position not an immediate need, it's gotta be a QB. And if we get lucky - Walter becomes the man, and Quinn/Russell don't get off the bench, just think how much more value they would have as trade bait. More than Porter or Moss, that's for sure.
blanda - that argument for the la territorial rights just like the giants claiming territorial rights is BULLCRAP!
this is not a giant's forum so i won't discuss semi-pro baseball here.
the raiders LEFT LA. BYE! sayonara! adios alvin cabron! their market is HERE now. another team moves in? great! it's their marketing area now. legally, al davis has zero claim to the southern california area as his alone. his business is no longer in southern california. at least not right now it isn't.
he cannot stop the league from putting a team there UNLESS of course he's posturing for HIS team to return there! which of course he is doing come 2011.
THAT would be the ONLY reason he's claiming LA.
Hey, if the Raiders can't decide between Jruss, & Quinn, why not pick WR Johnson and come back in the 2nd round and take Qb Drew Stanton ?
Stanton is probably just as good as Quinn, and why roll the dice, and spend all that $$ on Jruss.
Just a thought.
raider00 - sounds good. i can go for that!
moss will be traded.....porter will void his contract after this year...that leaves curry...so take johnson and get a decent QB prospect in the second round..
johnson will contribute right away...and i know al has the foresight to know that culpepper will be available after the draft..(not that he wants him)..but everyone keeps talking about the chiefs strong arming the raiders into taking russell
ESPN is running an interview with Brady Quinn in which Quinn indicates he (his agent) has been in contract negotiations with the Raiders. Although, he admits the level of negotiation does not reveal an ultimate intention by the Raiders to sign him.
Even the commentary suggests Al Davis will hold his card until the end of his 15 minutes on the clock Sat. At the very least, it looks as though all options are still open and we have no idea what will happen.
If the Raiders take Quinn over Russell they would seem to be more concerned about the floor than the ceiling of these two players. That’s a shame. However, it also suggests that Kiffin may have wanted Quinn and may have more say than we think.
nyraider, the Raiders have been in negotiations with not only Quinn, but Russell, Johnson, and Joe Thomas; which is why it doesn't reveal anything to Quinn.
We saw the Texans do the same things last season with Bush, Williams, Young, Leinart, and AJ Hawk. Everyone was saying "BUSH IS GOING TO HOUSTON!" and blam, "Mario Williams signs a contract with the Houston Texans!" was the headlines we heard Friday Night.
Expect the same here. You are going to see the Raiders negotiating with the top prospects of the draft, and they will more than likely sign one of them Friday. What is scary is that Mario Williams' visit to the Texans didn't get much play because he wasn't even considered to be the pick by the media. I know the Raiders' are not like the Texans, but they have been known to make picks like the Texans. It would not surprise me to see the Raiders pick Joe Thomas; which is as big a possibility as picking Russell. He didn't get much play with his visit to the Raiders' front offices, but neither has Russell. In fact, Quinn and Johnson received the most press about their visits, which tells me that is the Raiders' smoke green of who they will pick; leaving the choice between Russell and Joe Thomas.
Raider Nate 75-
I tend to agree. It's tough to listen to this 11th hour commentary and actually believe anything you hear... particularly when it concerns Al Davis and the Raiders. Where ever the media is focused, we should be looking at the opposite scenario.
I think there's a comfort for some of us knowing that JaMarcus has not been given a lot of attention by the Raiders. Just like a good QB, we look the other way 'til the very last second then throw the ball to our original intended receiver, or in this case, QB!
Scorpio:
You've no idea what you're talking about in regard to territorial rights. It's the kind of thing I do for living.
You go to school. Go take a business law course and then come back and talk to me. You are currently being rather cavelier with the Raider's finances. I'm glad it's not up to you. We wouldn't be able to afford to sign anybody. I guess you would have given back the 9 million dollars to Irwindale too, even though Irwindale got what they bought.
The Chiefs don't call themselves the Texans anymore either, but they sued over the rights to the name. When can we expect to hear from the Kansas City Texans?
Oh, and Scorpio, FYI...
The Rams sued the Raiders for LA terretorial rights after they had abandoned LA County for Orange County. The Raiders did, in fact, compensate the Rams with a portion of the money they won from the anti trust suit.
The Raiders currently earn money in LA because they still broadcast games there on radio. That's advertizing money that they'd lose if another team moved to town. The largest market for Raiders' gear is LA, a large portion of which they'd lose if another team moved there.
I guess you want Davis to be Santa Claus.
blanda - I AM BEING CAVALIER ABOUT THE RAIDERS FINANCES? ME? and YOU who are part of the team ownership group and russell supporters are free to spend what would amount to a $50 million dollar contract for a 21 year old who's started what? a whopping 29 games? who probably won't be ready to start for a year, maybe two? and speaking of whopping, we are talking about a player who might not even have the dedication to be a student of the game? who might come to camp fat and overweight? and when he IS finally ready if at all to start, there's always the bust factor. tell me then, what is the point of wasting all that $ for the above?
this is what you get for YOUR $50 mil bro. it spells M-A-J-O-R R-I-S-K. and I'M cavalier with finances? i think not.
i am not for a QB. if you must have your QB fix, then brady should be the guy. he has that rich gannon look and feel about him. at least spending $50 mil on him is less of a risk. that is assuming they go for a QB.
davis has no legal claim for territorial rights UNLESS he moves back there. like i mentioned before, there is no doubt in my mind that this is what he is setting himself up to do.
and speaking of irwindale, yeah as a matter of fact, i would have given back that $10 mil. i'm not a thief like davis.
Is it possible that Joe Thomas turned down a personal request by Roger Goodell to go to NYC for the draft and plans on going fishing instead... on perhaps the most important day of his life? I don’t know, maybe I’m making too much out of it, but that seems bizarre.
Scorpio:
Here's a bit of advice. If you ever go to court, don't represent yourself.
Irwindale: The city paid Al Davis for his promise to move into a stadium there, if it could be built. Davis gave them that promise, and would have moved had they built the stadium. Irwindale got what they paid for. It wasn't Davis' fault that they couldn't get the stadium built. This is commonly known as an "unilateral contract" and is fairly typical. I'd point out that Irwindale made absolutely no effort to recover that money, because they knew they had no right to it. It was only Davis haters who decided that Al should pay it back.
Clue number two: Businesses almost always have "territories" where they sell merchandise even thought the company doesn't actually have residence there. They legally claim these territories by showing that they have made affirmative actions and invested money to mine that territory for their product (among other things).
RE the draft pick:
So, is it your preference that we trade away the No. 1 pick, because any No. 1 pick is going to ask for the No. 1 money, and I don't see JRuss being any more of a risk than anybody else. However, I have been able to determine that JRuss' attitude problems are just so much made up crap. I see no evidence of "laziness" anywhere in his career.
I'm a little mystified as to how you reconcile some things, Scorpio. Please explain:
The Rams (who moved out of LA, and didn't express any desire to move back - in fact they ultimately moved farther away) ARE entitled to territorial compensation from the Raiders because - why?
The Raiders are NOT entitled to be territorially compensated because - why?
blanda - i admit that DO NOT know the leagalese talk but legally speaking, you may be right. morally though davis should have returned that money. it wasn't his since there was no stadium built. if what you say is true, then irwindale screwed up by not putting a provision in the contract to retrieve their money if in case a stadium could not be built.
as i've mentioned many times before, i am not for any QB in this draft BUT blanda, since you MUST have one i would pick quinn over russell. quinn represents less of a risk. look, do you want a feeble type of QB in the huddle when moss or porter jogs on a play he's not involved in? NO. if i were in that huddle, i want a take control QB with a pair of balls to tell moss to get his butt/head in the game. quinn is that type of rich gannon leader. at least with your $50 mil (you being an ownership partner) he'd be ready to step in right now. we would see results right away, instead of waiting for 2 years per tim brown who btw, said russell isn't the typical prototypical west coast QB. but then again, what does timmy know that we don't?
you mention laziness in his career? i never said he was lazy but now that you mention it, he did come to the combine overweight. ok so he lost it at his pro day. what about when he comes to camp? or the years after that. i never said i would hate the pick BUT IF he is the pick. davis would be smart to include a weight clause in his contract.
if they go the johnson or peterson route, i'd be ok with that, then you can have your QB in the later rounds. if they trade down to get more picks, i'm ok with that too.
whatever man. i'll be ok as long as the guy(s) contributes immediately.
No quarterback is going to contribute immediately. Leinart didn't. I have no faith that Quinn is going to get in Moss' face as a rookie. Moss would just go all pouty on him. Better suited to this situation is Russell's quiet leadership as described by Kiffin. Also, I don't believe that either Moss or Porter will be on this team after this season (which is the only reason I can see for taking Johnson).
As for Irwindale, they didn't make a stadium deal with Davis. The bought the rights to have the Raiders locate there, and that's all they bought. But that was subject to a condition precedent that a stadium could be built. Such contracts are made everyday in America, and NOBODY in Davis' position whould have done one damn thing differently. And, yes, Irwindale was stupid. Tell me, if you're playing poker and your oponent plays a stupid bluff and you win all of his money, do you say, "you know, you just played that hand stupidly so I'm going to give you all of your money back." If so, I really want to play poker with you.
There's one other aspect where the logic escapes me. If Al Davis were compensated for the LA territorial rights, that means he wouldn't own them, and couldn't claim them any furher. Why would he move "back" to a town were he had no rights to the territory?
Also, the 49ers tried to claim territorial rights when the Raiders moved back, claiming that the Raiders abandoned those rights when they moved to LA. So it's okay for everyone to collect money from Al, but if he tries to recover money or claim what is rightfully his, he's a thief.
Scorpio-
excuse me for chiming in on your entertaining exchange with BR, but I don't think even a quiet, mild-mannered Russell could be labeled "feeble" as he stands in the huddle at 6' 6" and weighs in at 260+/- lbs. Then too, Moss and Porter also have to deal with Kiffin, who is anything but feeble. I’m not concerned at all about Russell’s mild mannerism off the field, just that he perform for his $50 mil.
I for one am ready for this draft to be done. Although I am in the Russell camp, I have had so much time to think this through that I really don't know what we should do. We really can't screw this draft up.
I do know that I want a QB and I will trust Kif's decision more than my own.
Roy
PS No way in hell we give back that 9 million dollars. And we do have territorial rights to LA. Never mix morals with business.
have we made a pick yet?
here's some interesting speculation on my part. a lot of the nfl teams are awaiting to see what the raiders do; and make moves accordingly. since nobody knows at the moment, they are all hoping they sign someone before the draft.
i think al, in all his glory, makes everyone wait until the last minute, then that is when the trading bids begin.
keep an eye out on the chiefs because there are 2 possibilities here. they just rid themselves the services of dante hall to the lambs for a 5th rounder, and need a wr.
if they get antsy, and are not sure what the raiders, lions, browns, or bucs will do; they can offer trent green to either the raiders at the #1 overall pick; or wait until they make their move, and trade green to the lions and then use that pick to snag calvin johnson.
who else wants johnson besides kc? the bucs, doncos, jets, and rumored redskins. the doncos have players they can trade, but with their offseason spending, i don't think they have the caproom. the chiefs make the most sense in trading a player (green) to the raiders or lions (most likely lions), for their respective pick.
blanda when you say "that no QB is going to contribute immediately." if this cat russell is the number 1 pick overall he'd better be dang sure he contributes IMMEDIATELY because that's what 50 mil pays for. immediate results. you don't pay the #1 overall pick that much money for him to sit on his butt for a year or two, because that's how long we'll have to wait for russell to develop. OK, you want a QB? then let's draft him. with what looks like an improved o-line, might as well throw him to the wolves now and let's see what we get right off the bat.
don't get me wrong blanda. i don't discount the guy's skills. he HAS skills. i just don't think he's ready to fly out of the nest for "your" investment. if we trade down no farther than cleveland, he'll most likely still be there. THEN i say take him. not for the #1 pick.
if we get russell, i certainly hope i eat crow if i'm wrong. i really do. i'm not gonna go on a rampage about it but i just want results. nyraider said it best - if he IS the pick, then perform!
According to profootballtalk.com, the Raiders have already made a "low ball" offer to Quinn. There are two possible ways to view this, depending on how "low" a "ball."
The Raiders wouldn't make an offer unless they were prepared to have Quinn take it. So if this is true, it does appear that Brady Quinn is the choice of the Raiders.
However, if the offer is so low that they actually should reasonably expect Quinn to turn it down, it could be Quinn that the Raiders want to sign and trade. An offer extended to Quinn would accellerate trade offers from teams who really want Quinn bad, perhaps causing them to increase what they would offer.
bland - if your 2nd scenario is correct, that would mean that we won't end up with a QB - at least not in the 1st round. i can see this happening and i agree with it as long as we get proper compensation.
Scorpio:
I can see where the Raiders would pass on a 1st Round QB if the 2nd possibility is correct. My guess, in that circumstance, is that they are mining Cleveland, or maybe the Vikes.
A third possibility is that the Raiders are divided re Quinn and Russell. After a decision to give Quinn the right of first refusal, the Raiders would make the exact same offer to Russell after Quinn declined. If Russell then declines as well, they'd trade the pick to the Bucs for mulitple 1st day picks. In other words, the Raiders may have deterimed what they can afford to spend on a No. 1 pick, and have made the offer. If refused, they trade down for more picks.
sounds good to me! peace blanda! V
Peace, Brother!
I really can’t stand waiting any longer. One thing is for certain, we will be a better team by Monday. We have 10 draft picks (five in the top 100), barring trades, and Lane Kiffin is about to earn his keep in earnest.
While we desperately need a QB, and I think Russell is the right guy, I can see our top pick going many directions. Whether we take Russell, Quinn, Johnson, or trade down and grab Thomas or Peterson, it’s hard to imagine we can screw up. Any one of these five guys improves our team and then we have nine more picks.
This year appears to represent some depth at OL, and there are almost certainly some sleepers at all our need positions (including QB) to make this a productive draft.
Now it’s time for Kiff to show us his skills. He brings an intimate knowledge of this year’s draftees, and we should all expect one of the finest Raider drafts in a long time... there’s no reason not to... despite the head-scratching drafts of Raiders’ past.
Gentlemen, start your engines!
I say we trade down some slots and get a speedy defensive back!
don't hurt me... =)
You can choose to totally disregard what he has to say or not. But it got me thinking, maybe Quinn would be a safer/better choice.
Just wish we could trade out of the number one spot so it wasn't such a financial risk. ACtually I'd like us to trade out of the number one spot anyway... but perhaps that's for another post.
=)
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2007/04/17/ramblings/nfl-draft/5082/
scorpio, you're right...in Quinn I see a possible Rich Gannon, head in the books and a mind that will far surpass his physical limitations (in comparison to Russell anyway, it's not like he's weak).
If we pick JRuss, I expect I'll go through a period of "buyer's remorse" a couple of weeks later. I wish last year wasn't such a disaster, because no matter what we do we're not going to have a solid example of "improvement" until we can hear what players and coaches are saying in camp.
The draft isn't going to start me drooling. What is going to get me ready to see some football is talk from players and coaches about things that went wrong last year that are being addressed and fixed. This is the least Raider-like off season I've been through in 40 years.
I guess that it's that there is very little from last year which provides optimism for the future. All that we've been able to hang on to is we get the No. 1 pick. The reality is that that one pick won't have any more of an effect than signing a decent free agent.
But I have faith in both Davis and Kiffin! Up to, and until, they decide that what we really need is a speedy defensive back.
nah. another kicker to bolster the depth chart would be awesome!
Where's Stick'Em? About this time last year, he waltzed in here and accurately predicted the order of the first 10 picks of the 2006 draft. Not most of them. All of them. Paging Stick'Em!
I THINK THE RAIDERS SHOULD TAKE C JOHNSON AND THEN TRADE UP FOR J RUSSELL AT THE 2 SPOT. WE'VE GOT 1ST NUMBER 2 , 2 THREE'S AND MOSS AND A FIRST NEXT YEAR. WHAT DO YOU THINK ?
I vote for a punter. Someone needs to light a fire under that slacker Lechler's ass.
A first round punter!? That would rock! How about that guy from Boise State, or was it UC Irvine?
RT: You rang?
What some of you guys apparently have failed to realize is that Al Davis is getting a big f'ing laugh out of all this...
Will it be Quin? Will it be Johnson? Will it be Russell? LMFAO!!!
Say what you will about the old geezer, but he ain't lost it yet. (Yes, I know RT thinks he's gone senile and truly believes that every year Al forgets he drafted a DB #1 the season before...and does it again - call it serial-DB-aholism - but I digress).
What Al Davis is doing is playing everyone.
By initiating talks with the agents for three different players, Al can use the leverage of saying "Well... we might just go with Calvin instead" to Russell's agent. Get 'em to agree to a better contract that way.
You think Russell's agent doesn't know that if his client is drafted at #3 instead of #1 he'll lose a boat load of $$$?
Think it can't happen? Just ask Reggie Bush what happens when a DE agrees to a contract and calls your bluff the night before the draft - LMAO!
Al is also playing all the other NFL teams. You think if Tampa has their heart set on Calvin, Cleveland has their heart set on Russell, and so on... that by feigning interest in all the top picks Al is hyping up the interest in possible trades to move up? You think?
Al is also playing the media. You think he doesn't get a huge measure of revenge from this on all these guys who write crummy things about 'em in the media?!?
Al's sittin' back right now saying, "Dance, monkey, DANCE!" and watching capuchins like Barber and Killion with his organ in his mitts. ROTF!
They say there is chaos in the Raider warroom - BWHAAAA! The only chaos is the one Al Davis is creating by keeping everything tight as an AFL draft choice in an El Segundo Holiday Inn!
Al Davis, the most trusted name in sports...
Doobie: What it is, my brother!
We're out of punters for you in this draft... but we do have this great kicker named Erxleben... no wait, he's still in prison - LOL!
I did hear that there is Polynesian Islander long snapper for special teams Al is interested in. The guy is a cannibal and ATE the last DT he was supposed to block. Think he's from the University of Caliban somewhere in Micronesia...
Anyway, until the draft the long snapper is stashed in a Motel 6 in Fresno with his handler (named Friday) until Al unleashes 'em (on Saturday)!!!
Dude is 8 feet tall and 400 pounds and has never eaten ANYTHING other than raw meat in his entire life.
My source says it's money!
If the Raiders do want Quinn, here's a plan.
Trade down to the 3 slot for extra picks. Cleveland moves up to # 1 and takes Jruss. Lions either take DE Gaines, or trade out for someone to take WR Johnson.
Quinn falls to Raiders at # 3, plus they get extra picks, and save $$ signing Quinn.
Great take! Now can I have my Top 10 list?
RT ~ Here's #1 of the Top 10 List for ya:
"The guy JaMarcus reminds me of is John Elway. The way he can run side-to-side and throw it down the field, he's like John."
~ Al Davis
"If Al thinks JaMarcus Russell is Peyton Manning and John Elway when they came out — if he's that guy — he's going to take him."
~ John Madden
Blanda: Dan Patrick on ESPN radio reported the low-ball to Quinn offer, and then said later that Chris Mortenson called in and said none of it was true.
I don't think any of us will know who the Raiders will pick until one minute left on the clock, as someone else mentioned.
Al loves this shit.
I predict if we trade down, we will end up with Quinn... if we pick first we will take Russell. I'll trust Kiffin on this call... just as long as we don't take Quinn number one when we could trade down.
It's almost as interesting wondering if Moss gets dealt. This is going to be one of the more exciting Raider drafts in history!
I think the thing you guys are forgetting the most with these "offers," is they have been negotiating with 4 players: Quinn, Russell, Johnson, and Joe Thomas. Just like last years draft, Young and Leinart got the most "media play" with their negotiations. Quinn and Johnson is getting the most play with their's this year. That leaves us quietly with JRuss and Joe Thomas. Which one of those 2 do the Raiders take?
Here's the scary part, out of those 2, Russell gets the most media play with quotes from Al Davis' mouth, Kiffin's mouth, etc. All the "smoke screens" points to Russell.
Remember, Al loves doing this doing the media, and as Sticky put it: "Al's sittin' back right now saying, "Dance, monkey, DANCE!" and watching capuchins like Barber and Killion with his organ in his mitts." (Great take by the way Sticky).
So these "wind bags" about taking Quinn and Russell first overall, I'm starting to think we are not going to take either one. I think we may be hearing the name of a player who's going to make an "immediate" impact........" With the first pick of the 2007 Draft, the Oakland Raiders select, Joe Thomas, T, Wisconsin."
RT-
with all due respect to draft guru stick'em, here's one Raiders fans top ten:
1. Oak--you know who from LSU
2. Det--CJ. Even Matt Millen's not this stupid--CJ and Roy Williams? Youch
3. Cle--Joe Thomas--I think they like Frye
4. TB--LaRon Landry, S, LSU
5. AZ--Gaines Adams, DE, Clemson
6. Miami [from Wash]--Quinn
7. MN--Amobi Okoye, DT, Lville
8. Atl--Adam Carriker, DE, Neb
9. Wash [from Mia]--Levi Brown, OT, PSU
10. Hou--Leon Hall, CB
Nate ....there's alot of monkeys dancing in this blog too.
You're exactly right on Davis and the media.... he's chummin' for catfish and using the stinkiest old chicken livers he can find and they're swallowing it whole.
Wow.....maybe that's one of the reasons for the media's "news you can't use"......Payback
With all due respect to Mr. Davis, whom I love, we've managed to select Janikowski, Gibson, Buchanon and Gallery in the first rounds since the year 2000. We may also rue the day that we selected Huff over Leinart or Cutler.
I certainly hope that we are outsmarting others instead of outsmarting ourselves. I agree that a lot of these rumors are being orchestrated by Alameda for the purpose of creating confusion. I'm sure they're having a great time doing it, too.
The most accurate statement to come out in regard to Saturday is this one from profootballtalk.com:
"The Raiders are a secretive bunch and, with Mike Lombardi now frozen out of the draft process, there are no leaks."
Remember, at this time last year every basement in the bay area was flooded with all of the leaks. This time around, I have not seen one prediction that I'd hang my hat on.
I said it several weeks ago, and I still say it, at the last minute the Raiders may trade down and take Joe Thomas. I don't think drafting Thomas will reflect similarly to Gallery, but I think that it would still be a mistake. That would indicate to me that the Raiders will go for Culpepper or McCown, competing with Walter for the starting job.
While I prefer Russell, I think both Quinn and Russell are the real thing, and I'd like to see the Raiders go with one or the other of these.
don't get me wrong, i think that we should take russell. i don't want to rehash why i like him, but in my opinion, i think he is going to excel at qb whomever he plays for.
i'm just concerned that davis and the rest of the raiders' crew are throwing russell's name out there as a possibility of playing possum with the media and other teams. remember, huff only had one visit with the raiders last year; while everyone else had more than one. thomas has only had one visit with the raiders; while russell, quinn, and johnson has had more than one visit and conversation with the raiders.
here's the controversy amongst the media and raider fans at the moment. what do the raiders mean by turning the ship? does it mean they are going to reach the top by changing philosophies of football, but repeating what they've done in the past regarding free agency and their draft history, or will they completely scrap how they've done free agency/draft history?
whenever the media starts saying, "the raiders have to" or "al davis needs to select," we see al davis punch them in the gut by doing his own thing.
all offseason we've heard, "the raiders need to draft a qb" and "al davis knows he needs to draft quinn/russell in order to get back to the super bowl." that scares me!
i am of the mind (like last year) that al davis is predictable by what he's done in the past. normally by this time, i have a solid pick for whom we will draft, and i've been 90% right on most of them (missed on janikowski, had shaun alexander; missed robert gallery, had tommie harris; missed on fabian washington, had aaron rodgers).
i don't have a solid pick this year. i think it is coming down to russell and joe thomas. lately, i'm leaning by what davis has done historically (until he proves me wrong), and i honestly think they are going to pick joe thomas and pick up a vet qb in a trade or free agency (maybe a 3 way trade for green, or signing rattay/koy detmer), and drafting one in the 2nd round.
but like i've said before too; i'll be happy with whomever we get, but this year i hope i'm proven wrong with davis and they select russell.
relax Raider Nate; set up your draft day tailgate and crack open a cold one when the commissioner says "with the first pick, the Raiders select...quarterback....JaMarcus Russell, LSU"
I picked Huff last year. I still think he was a good pick. Leinart wouldn't have done us any good last year with all of the turmoil. People scoff at his numbers, but this last season was the first in some time where the SS positon was at least stable, and that was only Huff's rookie year. If we pick up Russell or Quinn this year, and the one we pick reaches his potential, I think Huff will emerge was one of the best picks in this decade.
Sometimes (in fact, usually) the number 1 pick isn't the answer to all of your problems but turns out to be the right piece of the puzzle at the right time.
But all signs at this time seem to point to the need for finding the franchise QB who will lead this team for the foreseeable future. That is more true this year (at least to me) than last year. There is no position on the first round board that we need more than a QB. If we don't get a QB, we might as well trade out of the first round all together and load up.
Blanda:
>>>There is no position on the first round board that we need more than a QB. If we don't get a QB, we might as well trade out of the first round all together and load up.
>>>
I couldn't agree more.
OMG! thomas? the thought never even crossed my mind! thomas? geez!
the only way that happens is if we trade down. do they have the guts to pay a lineman #1 money?
a few months ago i came up with a trade scenario with AZ to get leinart. with that dream trade, if we picked thomas at 5 that would make sense. he would most likely still be there.
but with the jury still out on gallery? i'd rather have russell!!!
- blanda (wink-wink)
KC at Oakland. :07 left on the game clock. KC leads 23 to 17. Raiders have the ball at their own 35.
Russell under center. He takes the snap and a five step drop. The blitz is on. Russell is hit by two defenders. He ducks under it, sliding to the right. He straightens up and fires down field. Deep! Way deep! Endzone deep!
Porter in a crowd at the corner of the endzone. He leaps! TOUCHDOWN Raiders! TOUCHDOWN Raiders! Announcers are lost by the din of the crowd which suddenly quiets!
"Raaiiderrrs.... Raaiiderrrs..."
Just tryin' that on for size. How's it look?
Looks like our boy , from Detroit is really eager to come to Oaktown:
From The San Jose Mercury News
"Detroit's Josh McCown is lobbying for that much-rumored trade. On Sirius Satellite Radio, he said, "I'm hoping come this Saturday or Sunday, between one of those days that I'll find out that I've been traded to Oakland so that I can have a shot to get on the field."
Can't wait for the draft!!
Go Raiders!!!!
Raider Rick
blanda - that sounds better than -
greg papa: russell/quinn (or whomever is QB) is NAILED for a 10 yard loss!
tom flores: that's because greg, thomas whiffed on his block and fell flat on his face. (whomever is QB) didn't have a chance!
"Russell back to pass...Gallery plants a defender on his ass...The line is holding like the Rock of Gibralter...McQuistan is literally chewing the vinyl off of a tackle's face mask...Moss streaks down the sideline, 50 yards, 60 yards...Russell leisurely flicks the ball into his awaiting arms...The city of Denver is helpless and in awe...Touchdown RRRRRAAIDERS!!!"
As long as I'm dreaming, I'm going to dream big.
Hey, is anyone hosting a chat room for the draft this weekend?
Doobie, can I call Raider Take a chatroom? We can create a comment thread right here. Maybe I can temporarily suspend word verification to make it easier for rapid-fire comments and dialogue?
"What a comeback by the Raiders! After Janikowski's 64 yd field goal to tie it as time expired, they've taken the rock in OT and marched it steadily down the field. It's second and goal at the Charger four...Russell under center..hands to Jordan..NO! It's a bootleg, JaMarcus sprints around the corner...Oh My! He absolutely TRUCKS Shawne Merriman at the goal line...Touchdown Raiders!!!"
Three posts, three AFC West foes vanquished. I'm dreaming big, too
RT - I liked everything about your dream TD call EXCEPT the part about the ball falling in the awaiting arms of Moss. Replace Moss with Porter, Curry, Gabriel, Buchanon, or Morant and I will happily co-sign that radio broadcast.
On the defensive side of the ball, I would like to see us get a run stuffing DT, pass rushing DE, and tackling machine SLB in the draft.
Calico: Defense?
Less than a minute left on the clock. The Raiders lead 21 - 16. Chargers with the ball on 4th down at the Raider 1! Rivers under center. He takes the snap and gives to Tomlinson over the middle. LT IS MET AT THE LINE OF SCRIMAGE BY MORRISON, SANDS AND SAPP! FUMBLE!! FUMBLE!! Asomugha picks it up. HE'S GOT AN OPEN LANE! Rivers is trying to run him down but there's no chance! Touchdown RRRRRAAIIIDERS!
Defense, yes!
Good point Calico Jack. I guess in my dreams, Moss becomes a selfless team player and major contributor, regaining his form and (finally) fulfilling his potential in Oakland! Operative words: in my dreams.
Bama7
Countdown to the end of the suspense! Don't forget that Brett Favre said he was 100% sure Moss was coming to Green Bay. Favre, like Tim Brown, has never been one that knew when to shut his mouth. 100% sure... hmmm... gotta mean something.
Hope Al still rolls the dice on Jruss. Hedging your bets on a receiver or trading down just doesn't feel like the Autumn Wind to me.
Lastly, I really hope we do something at DE. I only see one DE on our roster.... Burgess. Maybe Huntley. That's it. That's a problem. Kelly's best suited inside.
Gotta keep plugging my boys Charles Johnson and Quenten Moses. One of them will be available with our #2 pick and either are as good a DE as Jarvis Moss of FL who will be taken in the first round. I believe, however, Al will take the left tackle from Arkansas, Ugoh, with our #2 pick... the raiders brought him out and sent him home with a box full of raider gear.
Raider Take,
I like the idea of suspending word verification for 2 days to create a home for raider fans to give their opinions. Make it happen!
I'm twitching in anticipation!
Bama-
I disagree that "Kelly is best suited inside." He played well at DE before being moved inside and becoming somewhat a non-factor. Sands and Sapp are solid inside. Kelly is quick for a big guy and is better suited outside.
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