Daunte's Inferno
Welcome, Daunte Culpepper…and hasta la vista, someone.
Prior to last season, more than a few folks were ready to lop my head off for not anointing Andrew Walter the savior of the Raiders.
Meanwhile, during our most recent minicamps, Josh McCown was billed as the heir apparent to Kerry Collins and Aaron Brooks, the free agent who, like Rich Gannon, might just discover a new life in Oakland—or who would at least keep the starter’s seat warm for top draft pick JaMarcus Russell.
Now, effective immediately, either McCown or Walter has been relegated to fourth-string status. Russell remains unsigned while the Raiders play musical chairs with the general manager’s position. And Daunte Culpepper replaces Randy Moss as the latest diva to make his way from
Wow.
What does this make Cody Pickett? Water boy?
Don’t get your boxers in a twist. I like the addition of Culpepper. I just wish it had happened four months ago—or maybe 14 months ago. August isn’t the best time for an NFL team to start a full-blown carnival at the quarterback position.
But you know what, I’d rather have too much talent available at quarterback than not enough talent. Compared to last August, we’ve gone from famine to feast.
So let’s have a meal. Let’s let the ball fly—and let the chips fall where they may.
posted by Raider Take at 12:03 AM
98 Comments:
-Angelic Raider
This makes me extremely happy for two reasons:
1. Walter and McCown will both kick it up a notch, BAM!
2. Mr. Russell(Ahum): Please realize that 27 dollars it NOT much different than 30 dollars, now times that by a million and thats guaranteed money we're talking here. Are you really going to be hurting. All of it will be guaranteed really, look at Gallery. Get your butt in camp, rookie! Your not as big a deal as you think you are. Now he is certain to sit on the pine for his rookie campaign. So how much money are you crying about so you can sit on the sidelines for a year. You just delayed your: Sprite, Nike, Pizza Hut, Rap Album, MTV Cribs, sitting next to Beyonce at the MTV Movie Awards, Gieco, Tinactin endorsement MONEY!!!!! SUCKA
Cops and Firefighters risk their lives every day(especially in Oakland) and they don't millions of dollars guaranteed!
We Raider Fans dont even now the meaning of grooming a QB, and our first taste is your worthless attitude, give me a break. Half of us wanted a anything but a QB anyway. I sucked it up and said to myself "maybe their right he could be the leader of the future". Most of us cant say we are guaranteed that will be able to work 40 hours next month, as we humbly live paycheck to paycheck. You have a problem with 27 million dollars guaranteed. Most guys in this wonderful blog, would give a testicle to play special teams for the minimum salary. Heck maybe just to bring Mr. Davis a Hot Dog on Game day every week. GET YOUR BUTT IN CAMP CRYBABY. BTW I do hope you turn out to be as good as advertised, I'll eat my words, cuz I love my Raiders!!!
Sorry I feel deeply about this is my fellow citizens of the RAIDER NATION, we deserve better than an unproven rookie showing no love to the greatest organization in all of sports.
joseph-
Spoken like a true fan. Love your enthusiasm and share your frustration. However:
1. The NFL is a business, and JRuss is a rookie. Without a signed contract, he would be working for FREE, which no one does, especially not a union member.
2. You can't compare his salary to your's or mine because 75,000 people nor the millions with NFL Ticket will pay to see US do our job. Same thing with supermodels. Not every woman looks like Adriana Lima, Alessandra Ambrosio, Heidi Klum or Selita Ebanks. Economies of scale.
3. Don't hate the playa, hate the game. Until the NFL and the NFLPA get together to put a new system in place to determine rookie contracts, this is how it shall be. Agents are to the NFL as lobbyists are to Washington. Because of this current system agents have a lot of clout. Since their clients are getting well paid, don't look for it to change anytime soon. Until then all we can do is just hope he gets in to camp soon so we can get on with the season.
No doubt about the business part my man, I agree with most of your post but I'm sure there has been several proposals and that means several rejections, means that it's in JRuss's court to say yes or no and someone is saying no you deserve more. Last I checked getting a million dollars after three years of college is pretty rare. I understand you may only get this contract, in the end if you dont have a gambling, drug, sex, dog fighting problem you could set yourself for the rest of you life and many other family members.
My beef is not the money his entitled to, but more the squeezing blood from a turnip attitude.
My grandma (or granny) lives in Mobile and 27 million goes a long way. How fortunate one could be with such a lovely opportunity and think that you deserve more.
I also wanted to throw more money at Burgess, but now think signing Culpepper limits how much his raise should be. Burgess a gamble who has paid off well deserves guaranteed money. Lamont Jordan (I still root for guy) got a pay-cut(rightly so) because of not producing. To turn down 27 mil, for a guy who 0 votes for the Heisman (means no-one else) thought enough to give him 1) I'm thinking you have a lot to prove(see Ryan Leaf). I know that the heisman means nothing in trasitioning to NFL standards, the point is to illustrate (is that word legal at RT) no-one else was blown away. So the rise in his stock is due to a hype mechanism based upon potential.
Thanks Realist
-AngelicRaider
Culpepper is just a ploy to get Russel into camp. I'm watching the same senerio go down here in KC with Priest Holmes and Larry Johnson. When are rookies going to realize that they are entitled to nothing?
should we go with dante russell, or jamarcus culpepper?
he needs to get on his agents and tell them to quit holding out until johnson signs.
the difference between this and the chiefs problems, is johnson is not a rookie. neither is priest holmes. if they don't offer him $$, johnson will sit.
whereas, here we have a rookie who needs to get on his agents to get the deal done. he's missing a lot of practice.
I don’t see signing DC as an intentional ploy to sign Russell (incidental maybe). This move demonstrates the Raiders are determined to compete in the NFL (like we needed more proof). Every move that has been made seems to have a high purpose. I can’t remember a more aggressive and well-thought program of off-season moves, training camp organization, and purposeful direction.
Signing Russell is not about the money (Al knew how much he’d have pay before he drafted #1 - the same guy that patiently waited for Culpepper to become available as a FA and signed him at what I'm sure is a bargain $). Russell’s agents are inexperienced and need to protect their careers by waiting for Calvin Johnson to sign with Detroit. Any contract that’s “sub-Johnson” may be career-threatening. The option bonus BS is a means to delay the contract til Johnson signs.
Meanwhile, why should we care how many veteran QB’s are brought into camp. Let’s tryout fifty of them. That’s a nice round number.
Ok folks, lets take inventory. Last year we had Brooks and Walter. Then we released Brooks and signed Booty. Pretty pathetic wouldn't you say.
From draft day to now this is where we stand.
1. A moble quarterback (McCown) with reasonable starting experience for a fourth round pick which was recovered by dumping Moss.
2. A former Pro Bowl quarterback with a chip on his shoulder and something to prove.
3. Arguably the best "physically" talented quarterback from the college ranks since John Elway is under contract negotiations.
4. Andrew Walter
I was never sold on Walter because of his zero ability to move around in the pocket. It appears he is the odd man out.
Once Russell is signed the Raiders will go from the least talented (as a group) to possibly the most talented (once again as a group) in the league.
It is only my opinion, but I can't think of another team with a stronger threesome at quarterback as a whole.
Having said that, it is all dependent on Culpepper being fully recovered from his knee problems and how quickly he picks up the system.
H
Yeah Walter is definately the odd man out. As much as I like Walter's potential, he just doesn't fit anymore.
I think 'Pepper will start week 1 and keep JaMarcus' seat warm. Seems like McCown is a good fit even if he's not perfect, so he makes the team. McCown will make a fine backup knowing he can run away from guys and stay healthy if Dante goes down. I think you make JaMarcus #3 until he's ready and the line won't kill him, but when that criteria is met you make him #1 anyway so in my mind he should never be the #2 QB his entire career.
To me this move shows great confidence in JaMarcus as the future of the team. He should take it that way instead of taking it as an alternate plan in case he holds out. At the end of the season JaMarcus will be our only QB under contract, assuming Walter is not here.
As far as I can tell JaMarcus is not holding out for money. Word is the totals were agreed upon and his agents need to work out finer points of the structure. JaMarcus isn't pinching pennies here, he wants to be out there and play and is "frustrated" with all this.
We'll be OK. Ther locker room will be fine as soon as JaMarcus steps inside. He doesn't need to start week 1, as a matter of fact I'd be pissed if he did.
Psycho
Hey Psycho,
According to rumors I've heard it's not dollar amounts, but what bucket they come from (signing vs. option).
In any event, my sources in Mobile say Russell is a stand up guy and well thought of in the community.
Besides, how many first picks are actually signed when camp opens. And remember David Carr was signed before the draft. Look how that turned out.
H
love the culpepper signing.I can't remember Al ever allowing a rookie Q.B. to take a regular season snap. JRus will be 3rd string no matter what.
That said, I still like Walter and hope we keep'em.
Oh yeah this 1st round contract shit needs to be fixed, that's obvious.
BlandaRocked weighing in.
It's not Russell that's the hold up. It's his agents. I guarantee you that nobody is even asking for Russell's opinion. But, eventually, it will be Russell who must make the decision when negotiations are going too long.
I don't think this has to do with the amount of money, but what conditions will make the guaranteed money not guaranteed.
What is going on is Russell's agents want to show the football world their prowess by gaining Russell the guaranteed money no matter what Russell does. If JRuss were to decide that he wanted more money next season, he could hold out all season and the money would still be guaranteed; or Russell could get arrested like Michael Vick before ever throwing a pass, and the money would still be guaranteed.
From the interviews I've seen with Russell, he genuinely just wants to play and to let his abilities speak for themselves. There is no player where such a contract clause is more meaningless. Russell's agents want that clause for themselves, and not for Russell. My feeling is that if Russell signs this week, Russell stepped in. If he fails to step in, then we're going to have problems and we may not see Russell until the season starts.
Enter DC. Kiffin understands that he can get the team prepared for Russell better with Culpepper than with McCown. Russell will have to take care of himself. Both Culpepper and McCown want to prove they are starters. We can't lose with that kind of competition, and if Russell doesn't want to manage his own career, and keep playing and improving, then the damage done is done to Russell, and not the Raiders. This is why Davis like Kiffin. He's protecting the team.
RT: I don't think that Walter is the odd man out. He'll make the Roster. He still has several years on his contract, and both McCown and Culpepper are signed for one year. Whoever loses the competition to become the starter will want to be traded immediately, or sign with another team as soon as the season is over, so that they have the chance to become the starter somewhere else.
I'm sorry, but it looks like Walter has "Tui" stamped on his forehead.
I was definitely on the "JRuss at all costs" bandwagon so I can't say that I'm surprised or frustrated by the current situation. I agree with Realist in that the system is at fault, and the NFL should look to the example of the NBA. In an effort to prevent rookie holdouts and backlash from veterans, the NBA set a cap on what rookies can earn in their first few years. The league has many problems, but signing rookies isn't one of them. A 3 or 4-year cap should be in place that would allow a team to resign a high-draft pick in the final year at a rate comparable to what veterans earn at similar positions. Won't be happening anytime soon, so I'll sit back and watch Daunte play his ass off for what he hopes will be a lucrative prolonged contract next season.
BR, I agree. Walter is Tui's heir. He'll ride the pine until we replace him with another backup QB. Are there tougher jobs? Sure. Almost every other job in the world. Is it a dream job? It would be for me, but then I know I'm not starter material.
Russell is wise to trust his agent, but at some point he needs to say "uncle". They are "interviewing" as much as negotiating. They would like nothing better than to philosophically lock up next year's No. 1 in August.
I have to be honest. I'm not excited about DC. My wife was a big MN fan until I converted her. My buddy is/was a big Miami fan. I've seen DC at his worst. But hey, the price is right, and unlike Norv, Kiffin won't play him if he's not a winner. IMHO.
Why is it that the Russell negotiations are considered "embarrasing" and everything that you can throw in the book but the negotiations for Queen and CJ are just part of a prosess and both sides need to be in complete agreement for the best of the player, the team and the league?
Amazing!!!!
raiderdecoachellla
Bama7
Here's a link that had a good article disputing John Clayton's assertion that no progress is being made in the Jruss negotiations and another good article where Duante says all the right thing about his role with the S&B! Be sure to scroll through all the crap getting down to the raider stuff--
http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm
More INT's yesterday from both McCown & Walter. These guys are 2nd stringers. I like Culpepper and want Jruss in tomorrow.
I think as soon as Russell signs, we'll quickly see a mysterious "injury" to Walter causing him to go on IR for the season – thereby preserving him and his multiyear contract to be JaMarcus's backup in 2008. Both McCown and Culpepper are essentially rent-a-players on one year contracts auditioning for 2008. We might keep McCown around after this year if he's cheap enough, but you know Culpepper's ego won't allow him to stay too long without a guarantee of being a starter.
All that said, Culpepper is a good fit for the short term, and I agree with RT that I wish it had happened before the draft. Those darn Chiefs had the key to the draft by holding on to Trent Green for so long (thereby Miami kept Culpepper, etc. etc.)
I predict Andew Walter's going to be traded. He has more trade value than Tui ever did, and there a definitely a few teams that would be interested.
-kvn
Right on the money, raidercoachella! It's an embarrasment that the Raiders didn't manage to get the #1 overall draft choice into camp on the first day. Business as usual for the #2 overall to hold out a week. But, of course, we hold the Raiders to a different standard.
So moronic, even a caveman could write it.
Last year, Mario Williams agreed to a 6 year, $54 million contract; with $26 million guaranteed. Reggie Bush agreed to a 5 year, $60 million contract, with $26 million guaranteed.
A friend of mine (who will remain nameless for this purpose because he is trying to gain a position with the Raiders as a contract attorney) that has a reliable source in the organization says that Russell's contract is agreed upon in principle, roughly 5-6 years, $57-60 million, with a guarantee of $27 million. His agents are wanting $30 million guaranteed money, and they are waiting to see what Calvin Johnson gets, and use that as their base. I think they are hurting Russell if this is the case, because the offer on the table reflects fair market value, in that it reflects a similar number that Bush received last season. Al Davis, Amy Trask, and Mark Jackson know this. Russell's agents are making him look bad. The Raiders don't have the bad image here.
Another smear campaign against the Raiders by hack writers.
raider nate:
From what I'm finding searching the Internet, you're on the money.
Apparently this is the first #1 pick Russell's agents have represented. What they are scared to death of is that Johnson (#2), whoes mother is calling the shots, will show up with a better contract and display to the football world that they got bested by an athlete's mother.
Over at the Quinn camp, who we passed on, Quinn wants better than #22 money. It looks like Quinn is right in the middle of his negotiations, while Russell has been very passive, not uttering a word. Quinn might hold out for some time asking for starter's money, but the more he holds out, the less likely he will become a starter. Interesting scenario. The more time Quinn holds out for more money, the less money he's worth.
Kiffin and Davis made the right choice. But Russell's agents need to stop worrying about Johnson's mother.
I want to make the point that Russell's agents are not considering their client in this way: Johnson is a WR and needs far less camp preparation than the starting QB. As a wide receiver, Johnson, if he's truly as taleted as they claim, can step out of contract negotiations and on to the playing field on game day for a limited number of reps and be worked more into the lineup as Johnson learns more of the system and gets into football shape.
QBs can't do that. In order to start they need all of a training camp. If we get into next week with this thing, there is absolutely no way that Russell is going to start, even as a back up, anytime this season.
So, to Russell's agents I'd say: "Start representing your client, not your own damn future. Parasites can only survive if the host survives."
blanda,
that is the other area that russell's agents are hurting him. they are worried about calvin johnson. if they sign russell with the raiders before johnson, they set the bar of negotiation in favor with the lions, regardless of what johnson's mommy wants.
i think bottom line is russell's agents want $28-29 million guaranteed, al doesn't want to pay more than $27.5 million (this is my personal opinion, separate from what i've heard from my buddy).
not too mention, that wr's should not make as much as qb's or rb's. from what i hear too, cj is asking for a ludicrous 5-6 years, $65-70 million, $35 guaranteed.
again, if russell's agents sign him with the raiders at the current offer, that immediately takes the power out of johnson's hands, and no one in the league would sign him for more, until he gains experience to show he's worth it.
You know at the end of the day we look at these numbers and say 30 and 30 for 60 that is a lot of money! Crazy stuff!? but than we see the baseball players and basketball players and they laugh at a 100m contract, they have a lot less wear on themselves but they make a lot more money!
I wish to see JR signed soon so he can get his do reps and starts learning from Pepper, this is going to be a chance of a lifetime for him to learn from somebody that is basically his mirror image with many years of NFL experience.
raiderdecoachella
Am I going senile, or didn't we have this same conversation last year at this time?
Seems like I was lobbying hard for Drew Brees... and then Culpepper, once Brees signed with the 'Aints. And 'pepper became a Phish.
Seems like RT was lobbying for John Kitna or Josh McCown... who both then went with the Lions.
And the Raider Nation got sodomized with a red-hot fireplace poker in the form of one Aaron "Buckwheat" Brooks instead - YIKES!
Here we are again, now with 'pepper and McClown on our roster as requested.
Shoulda, coulda, woulda either one of these guys done any better than Buckwheat or Walter behind the mockery of an offensive line out there?
Probably not... so maybe it matters not.
This song remains the same: if the offensive line gives up 72 sacks again, we're going to need all four of 'pepper, McClown, Walter, and Russell on the roster... else we'll see Ronald Curry lining behind Center.
Addition by subtraction, from profootballtalk:
"MOSS PULLS A HAMSTRING"
The man who refuses to build his body continues to decline.
Another positive sign. From the third day practice, JMac reported:
"– The blitz-protection drills have been among the most entertaining aspects of camp. Linebackers are given a head start and either come up the middle between two large pylons or veer outside, attempting to get past a running back.
"By coaches count, the offense edged the defense 9-8, with Adimchinobe Echemandu providing the winning margin by walling off Kyle Shotwell."
Remember last season when the offense couldn't even run an effective practice because they were being overwhelmed by the defense? Add to that that the offense is now performing convincing fakes... I figure we've already picked up at least 3 games on our tally last year.
Bama7
I keep reading good things about Echamandu. They say not only is he playing like he'll make the team, but he's playing like he expects to start.
I have also read several things that lead me to believe that Newberry will easily beat out Grove if he can stay healthy. Newberry is nasty in the mold of Wiz... something Griove was SUPPOSED to be.
Ok, no less than Snake Stabler was talking about the high character person Russell is. But, he also said he needs to get into camp. Stabler may have been a renegade type but he was always a team first community first guy.
Latest rumor is Johnson is close to signing with Detroit.
H
I really hate to see Moss pull his hamstring. I hope he makes it back for the start of the season because I’d much rather see him implode the Patriots than just to have him disappear from existence.
Some very pleasant surprises in camp so far ...
Newberry is a healthy beast, Echamandu, who is Asomugha's cousin, is shining brightly, BJ Ward is playing passionate football, Moses is excelling as a speed rusher ... good stuff.
I'm with Stick'em ... our success largely rises or falls with the OLine. It is comforting to know the following will impact the OLine:
(a) We have one of the top OLine coaches in all of football
(b) We have a singular voice instructing the OLine
(c) We will have a modern offense with sensible playcalling & schemes.
(d) the additions of Griffith, Miller, Carlisle, Newberry greatly aids our blocking talent
(e) a modern, diversified offense that is less predictable
There is no question that we need to develop Henderson and add additional talent prior to 2008. However, I'm confident that we will reduce the sack totals to 48 or less. This will be achieved by and large by a coaching staff that uses the personnel wisely and puts them in the best possible situation to succeed.
I just posted some additional thoughts on the Culpepper signing on my blog at:
http//silverandblackforever.blogspot.com
"Red Hot Chili Pepper"
big al (MR.) davis made a real coup in signing "culpumper" to the faidas, but he just now realised that he sent "mamby pamby mossyman" to the Patriots! Dogh.. there goes the vertical DEEP game. Ther faida fanatics really think that they have the strongest trio of QB's in the league? Ha ha haha ha ha ah....You maroons kill me. Just dream babies, keep defending the "nation"
stick'em-
According to this guy the sky is falling:
http://www.realfootball365.com/nfl/articles/2007/08/raiders-russell-needed020807.html
Bama7
How many more interceptions yesterday from Walter and McCown? Was it 7??? Walter threw 4 picks yesterday.
Thankfully we at least have Culpepper.
Al called it: Russell's agents have to score big on the deal or "they are done in the market".
We'll, one thing in our favor is that if Russell ends up canning them they are REALLY done in the market, so I think the heats on the agents here, definitely. Al's gotta find a way to help these clown save face in the negotiations, that's all that's left for them.
1) Maybe Al can get on the phone with his buddy Matt Millen and push him to sign Calvin already so we can get this thing done.
2) Best wishes to Otto & the lack of a leg. This should've happened earlier to prevent all those viruses that nearly kill him on a regular basis.
3) How about Al's conference, huh? Good stuff. Al is still The Man.
4) The o-line is scaring me. It makes me feel like we should WANT to stunt Russell's growth to prevent his death not having to play behind these guys. Once Burgess is in there we can pretty much double how ugly it looks.
Psycho
Did anyone hear how the Newberry/Hawthorne fight ended? I think it was 'BlitzChick' who said that after Hawthorne started the fight out of frustrastion, lost the fight, and took it out on Jake Grove the next play by body slamming him to the ground. Grove took it without retaliation. I said it before, I'll say it again; Grove is on my shit list and I feel like we can't win with this guy. They say Newberry plays much stronger, as well as meaner (obviously).
Psycho
Chicken little says....
The sky is falling.....The QB's (learning a new offense) have thrown interceptions practicing against one of the best pass defenses in the NFL.
raiderrealist:
I read that article about halfway down. I couldn't go much further because the idiot was simply making shit up.
The Raiders signed Culpepper because they are desperate? I have seen absolutely no sign of desperation coming out of this camp. After a 2-14 season, all you can be is optimistic.
The Raiders didn't sign Culpepper because they were desperate. They did it to strengthen their position. Culpepper may have signed with the Raiders because he was desperate for a starting job. Nobody guaranteed him a starting position, but the Raiders gave him the chance to earn the job. The Raiders also covered their asses by giving him a contract which can be terminated half way through the season. This, of course, means that Walter is going nowhere.
A look ahead to 2008 will show that unless either McCown or Culpepper make Kiffin forget about Russell, Russell will be the starter and Walter will be the backup, and McCown and Culpepper will be somewhere else.
I suspect Kiffin might hire a goon to crack one of Walter's ribs while he's asleep. That way we can put him on IR and go into 2007 with the other 3, and use Walter as a backup next year. But that's probably why I don't run the Raiders. :)
Psycho
Bama7
hey chicken little, Walter threw 4 picks and according to J macdonald nearly had three more picked off. The pass defense isn't that good.
The qb's are that bad.
Who are all of our quarterbacks going to throw to, a guy who wore street clothes most of last year? The aging Alvis Whitted, whom everyone dogged last year as one of Art Shell's most ridiculous pets. Doug Gabriel?
Ronald Curry had better stay healthy, that's for sure.
RT:
I'm thinking that once Moss goes down in NE, we might be able to rent Gabriel to them again for another draft choice.
Or maybe they're renting Moss from us right now? Scary thought!
Psycho
Bama7
RT- from a stats standpoint, travis taylor's the most productive NFL WR on our team. He's not great but he's good and better than all but Curry on our team. And yes, Curry needs to prove he can play a whole year without getting hurt. Porter's the one on the spot though, either put up or freakin shut up Porter... damn we been talkin' potential with this guy for about 5 years. Walking around with obscene t-shirts... teasing everyone and getting a fat contract. Fighting with coaches. What's he done? Two meaningless big games: Denver in a snowstorm and at Tennessee two years ago. That's it. Show us something Porter, superstud! Freddie B's gone, shell's gone, you got your fat unearned contract, now catch a damn third down pass for a first down. Catch a game winner.
Said it before and i'll say it again, Porter's TO without the production. How awful is that?
All indications so far suggest Porter is working his ass off and doing all the right things to be definitive the #1 option. Good for him, I hope it translates to production. Curry is The Man and lets cross our fingers he stays on the field.
Psycho
Let's have a show of hands who dissed Porter last year when he was in Shell's doghouse... the "culture has to change" sayers. Now, I must give you a little "I told you so" because he's the best we got. In hindsight, Porter was dumb, but Shell clearly overreacted and we ALL paid for it. IMO Porter is on a mission this year to clear his name from last year's crap.
Check out the camp video updates on Raiders.com. They're pretty cool.
Stats on Porter:
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/187624
I'm glad to see Porter's in camp and wants to wash away the taste of last year. But I told you so for a guy that has yet to go over 1,000 yds rec and 10 TDs in a single season since 2000?!!!
There seems to be two camps offering opinions as to the problems signing Russell. Those who are looking for a way to blame it on the "embarrassing Raiders" and those looking for genuine information.
Davis said yesterday that it's the amount of money Russell's agents want guaranteed (all of it). Davis is right when he says this would create a situation where Russell has no accountability for upholding his end of the contract.
Those saying that it's all Davis' cheapness creating the problem site sources with no part in the negotiations. Russell's agents haven't uttered a word. Usually the source is something like "agents with experience in signing #1 picks."
I'd suggest that Davis is being absolutely honest with what he was saying yesterday. Why would he lie? He's never been known for being cheap when signing potential stars. If he was lying, we'd know soon enough because eventually Russell will have a contract. If Davis didn't think Russell was worth the money, he'd say that too.
Now, I have no reason to doubt Russell's character. I think he'd uphold his end of the bargain. But contracts are only contracts if both sides are provided a benefit, and both sides suffer a detriment. Anything else is a gift, no matter what you want to call it legally. Davis isn't cheap, but he's not in the habit of giving money away (unless it's charity) and I don't expect him to start now.
Realist: Look, last season ALL they did for Art Shell was sign Aaron Brooks. That's it. They didn't sign ANY other free agents, not even a d@mn O-lineman for Shell.
Look who they signed for Kiffin:
3 new QBs (Russell, McClown, Culpepper)
2 new RBs (Rhodes, Griffith)
2 new WRs (Taylor, Williams)
4 new O-linemen (Newberry, Carlisle, Green, Claxton)
So, if the Chicken Littles wanna talk about the sky falling, they need to tell us WHAT they would have done differently this offseason.
What de f' does Connor Byrne suggest? What should we have done differently? Draft Brady Quinn? Trade for Peyton Manning? Puh-leeze.
Unless Byrnsie has some constructive way to make this team better, I say f'em!
The truth is Culpepper might not be any more mobile than KFC or Walter was. The truth is he might get his knee scrambled like the big egg breakfast at Denny's behind this offensive line.
But at least the Raiders are doing something different this time.
Realist-
I'm not saying Porter will be an instant star (btw, the stats on Porter don't mean squat because he played behind the great Brown/Rice duo... then not at all last year). My position has always been that given the opportunity and proper circumstance (ala Kiffin and company), Porter is ready to play. I'm saying the way Porter was handled last year was a complete farse, and it had nothing to do with "the culture" or with the consiracy theories that have been suggested. As it turns out, Porter was the one who first exposed B&B football for what it was, living in the past. It just took some of us kool-aid drinkers a little longer to realize the truth.
HollyMolly!!!!
Get out-a-touch for a few days and all hell breaks loose.....
Yippy!!!!...I got my wish ....Culpepper is in the house...
Now when we get "JRus" signed we will have 2 similar "QB" and we won't have to modify the "O" between them...This is a great move....
I have not read the other comments yet but will...I am in SanDiego on a "RoadTrip" and was DisConected....
PantyRaider.....Celibration!!!!!
>>>
Two meaningless big games: Denver in a snowstorm and at Tennessee two years ago. That's it.
>>>
Uhh... his best game of his career was in front of his hometown bro's at Washington two years ago.
Frigging amazing catches.
Makes me wonder if he could play inspired like that all the time he could be an all-pro.
nyraider-
I respectfully disagree. When you throw out the stats you don't like then the ones you do like don't mean as much. Like that #3 ranked pass defense(2-14 record) and that -5 passing yards allowed to Houston(lost the game).
Porter became the #2WR in 2004 after Brown went to Tampa. That's when he had his best year to date(998 rec yds 9 TDs). He became the #1WR in 2005 after Rice left. His rec yards went down slightly(942 rec yds) but he only scored 5 TDs. I'm sorry, but in my book a guy that has been likened to T.O. potential wise has got to produce over 1,00 rec yds and score double digits in TDs, AND he's got to do it on a consistent basis. T.O., Marvin Harrison, Torry Holt, & Randy Moss(before he grew moss)produce consistently. That's what a #1 receiver is to me. I'm hoping Porter will do the same but so far his production has yet to match his potential.
Lions signed Johnson!
http://www.detroitlions.com/document_display.cfm?document_id=458576
If CJ's contract had any impact on Russell's, then look for Russell to be in camp by next week.
Bama7
Thanks, Gary... sorry for the oversight... edit my original post to give Porter credit for THREE meaningless good games.
guys-
I would never consider a win against a division rival as "meaningless," particularly given our recent drought against the AFC West. The game in Denver you refer to is one I will always remember.
CJ's contract is undisclosed, will be released when JRuss signs his, to see who made more. This keeps the ball in the Raiders' court. This is where the friendship between Al and Matt Millen pay off to; make no mistake.
JRuss' agents were hoping to get a disclosure on what CJ received as guarantee money, to use that as a base (see my above post). Now they know it's a 6 year deal, with nothing else. Yet another area they look silly, and not the Raiders.
JRuss should be signed by this weekend (my opinion). If not, then JRuss needs to can his agents. That's the bottom line.
I do need to say "Thank you" to my buddy and his inside source for the knowledgable info on JRuss (they will both remain nameless at this point, due to the sensitivity and legality of the matter). Just so you know, I had to have them read what I posted via email before I hit the "Publish Your Comment" Tab; on the negotiations info for their approval. They agreed I didn't leak anything that should be unknown, and they wanted Raider fans to know the truth. Then to have it confirmed a day later when Al Davis comes out and says the same thing, as Blanda pointed out.
I wanted to publish it on my site, but it isn't as widely read as RT's, because I don't have a lot of time to publish and write. You read it here first. Thanks RT.
NYRaider - I have my hand 'raised' on the Porter thing. I was definately on Shell's side this time last year and calling for Porter's head. Call it blind loyalty to Shell I suppose. Little did I know at the time he was going to stand on the sideline every week without saying a word, letting Walsh run the O into the ground.
I still think Porter was wrong for going against the coaches in the first place. I think you shut up and play no matter what 'direction' the team takes, and you don't disrespect former Raider greats if you're a Raider. But I'm one to forgive & forget if Porter want's to make things right. I really think he's going to have a huge year. Al said "he's a good kid, he's just lost his way a little bit". And I agree.
Psycho
Psycho:
I agree. I was certainly in Shell's camp. But I've come to realize that these two were battling with their own personal pride, and not battling for Raiders Pride and Poise.
But Shell was the head coach, and the onus was on him to run a clear and concise communication in Oaktown. He failed not just with Porter (Porter and Moss were just the only ones who were vocal) but with the entire Raider team.
I don't believe, however, that I was inaccurate about the culture needing to change. But the culture doesn't change by order of the head coach, it changes by example.
i began in shell's camp, until i started reading shell's comments on how he was doing everything right, and doing everything he was asked to do, but was still in the "dog house." that's when i came to porter's side of things.
i think that was the tip of the iceberg with what shell did wrong/poorly.
This just in.....
"Posted by Jerry McDonald - NFL Writer on August 3rd, 2007
With Calvin Johnson having agreed to a six-year contract with a $27.1 million in guaranteed money, the Raiders and JaMarcus Russell can get serious about coming to agreement on a contract."
This further confirms that the Raiders' offer is money. If JRuss' agents don't sign him, and still hold out for more, JRuss needs to can his people. And they say Al has "lost his ability." Shame on them.
In a perfect world, JR signs today, comes to camp and grabs the QB job by balls. Unfortunately, the learning curve is probably too great for that to be even remotely realistic. That's why it sure is nice having options at QB.
Bama7
Well, I too hope Porter succeeds this year. We'll see.
Culpepper...."MyBoy"...
According to the OaklandTribune he is playing well already and the Rooky "TE" caught 4 "TD"s...I like it....when "JRus" comes in and learns the "O" we won't miss a step....he will ba a "carbonCopy" of Culpepper but younger and healthier with a biger arm but the same kind of accuratcy and mobility...
We need a "NickName" for our "QB" Dual...."TooBigDual"..."DoubleTrouble"..."Big-n-Biger"..."Howitzer-n-Bozooka"..."DoubleRollingThunder"..."DoubleDeath"... "StrikeForceDouble".....
I can already see the "D"s getting worried in the AFCW....By the time we get the "RB"s in gear and the "WR"s up top and the "TE" to the post the "D"s will be wetting their "Panties"....If only the "OL" can hold up.....
PantyRaider....ComeOn#11....GameDay!!!!!!
"JRus"....
Here is some info about the contract money the Raiders have left to sign "JRus"....the word is we gave up too much to our #2 and now don't have enough for our #1 left in the "Pool"....WOoo0Ps!!!!
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7082474
PantyRaider....ItAin'tTrue!!!!
Yeah Zack Miller looks like the real deal. I'm even more excited about the blocking (for once)and work ethic than all those TD's he's grabbing. I'm still hoping for Newberry to hold up enough to start for us. People talk about Williams being the weak link on D, well as far as the O goes, look no further than Grove. Well, not MUCH further anyway.
Psycho
Panty,
Let's just cross our fingers that Fox is pulling that out of their asses like they usually do. I seriously doubt Al would make such a blunder.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the total alloted rookie money only for the cap hit in '07 ??
If so, fox is full of it, since they could simply structure the total contract so that JRuss's cap hit this year doesn't exceed the limit, and everyone is happy.
Psycho
Psycho:
As I'm understanding it, that is apparently what Detroit did with CJ. 8 million of his guaranteed money doesn't get paid until 2008.
Bama7
Psycho- agree totally. If Newberry stays healthy our line is improved tremendously. And I have a feeling that a years or so from now we're going to be looking really smart for having taken Zach miller. He appears to have been first round talent.
As for Russell, now that C Johnson is signed there's no reason in the world that the Russell ordeal shouldn't be over by this weekend. It's obvious where the two sides should meet now. It'll be over by Sunday.
Calico Jack's Prediction as of 7:10 pm Friday night ...
JRuss is signed tomorrow and in camp for the beginning of practice on Sunday. Contract is for 6 years, $29.5M guaranteed with no option bonus; total value including difficult to obtain incentives = $65M. Mark it down folks.
Press conference Sat. night with JRuss, Kiff, and Al at the table. The 3 Alpha Dogs setting the compass due north.
I can already see the Raiders.com photo gallery from Sunday ... JRuss & Pepper chuckling at their mirror images.
Let the new era begin with Kiff barking at JRuss "Let's go rookie. Get your butt in gear!"
Let the good times roll. Cheers!
CalicoJack:
Celabration!!!!..I love it.....
Psycho:
You sound logical....we should rarely trust a "Mediot"....
08/03/2007 TE Randal Williams Released:
This Raider team is not waisting time playing games...If ya don't fit your "Out-a-Here"....
PantyRaider.....Where'sJRus!!!!
PantyRaider-
Kiffin has expressed that he has no loyalties and that they are constantly examining options regarding who and what will make this team better.
On a smaller scale, if a player makes a mistake in practice (or gets flagged by the hired officials in camp), he gets pulled from the play. If a Center-QB exchange is fumbled, both the center and QB have to come out. This process seems to make sense, and will hopefully reduce penalties.
Kiffin concedes that he's not certain what progress the team has made (or how they'll respond in games) but he does know they will be physical and hard hitting because nobody shies away from contact.
You have to like the energy and the attitude of the coaches and players. Adding J-Russ can only improve that. No word yet, but I’m confident Calico Jack is on to something with his prediction of a Sat. news conference.
I keep hearing really good things about RB Adimchinobe Echemandu. I suspect he's going to make it easy for the coaches to cut ties with Jordan. Ech is basically the same size as Jordan, two years younger, and cheap.
We're supposed to be establishing our identity as a run oriented team and so far I haven't heard much to back it up in camp. Ech seems to be the only bright spot in the one-cut system and all you hear about Jordan is that he still can't catch. I think Rhodes is hurt? Bush is still on the shelf for now. Fargas is usually a star this time of year but I haven't heard anything.
The only thing the media want's to talk about with the O is the 100 interceptions per day. Oh, great, that's all I needed, thanks media.
Psycho
Calico. That's probably the best guess anyone has come up with on the subject. I wouldn't doubt if it happened.
Psycho
pantyr8r and all,
this randall williams thing is confusing! he takes off for personal reasons, someone else takes his number and now some papers are saying he's back with the team, others are saying he's been cut. personally, i hope it's the latter. i would like to see madsen make this team. this is a guy with great potential. with williams out of the way, hopefully madsen will stick.
re: russell, i think they are still a long ways off. no way today. that option bonus is a major prob. one article i read this a.m. says that with russell's supposed good character, no need to worry about him holding out. then again, i see the team's point in protecting their investment in case he holds out or gets busted for drugs or something stupid like that. but a signing today? i hope i'm wrong but i don't think it'll happen.
re: Echemandu:
i have a contract question for you guys..... if this guy is a younger, cheaper version of jordan with similar skills, why keep jordan and his salary?
my question is, if they cut jordan, does his salary stay on the books and for how long?
I'm not sure how much Jordan has left in signing bonus. But we were willing to let him go in March so it's probably not that bad a cap hit if we cut/trade him. We'd probably end up saving some immediate cap room. I'd be fine with it. Jordan is on my last nerve. Put up or shut up.
Psycho
UN-SIGNED:
There are 4 other 1st round picks who have not signed yet but the Raiders get all the crap....
Chargers WR Parker out after toe surgery...they think he will miss 10 weeks....
KC has not signed their ist round "WR"
PantyRaider....SomeGoodNews!!!!
The RB situation isn't dire in the long run but isn't looking too good with opening day six weeks away.
I really like Adimchinobe Echemandu aka "Joe". Normally I would be on the "cut Jordan wagon" I hate to say it but we need to keep Jordan for 2007. Here's what we got:
Jordan: will be our primary back for at least the 1st 4 games whether we like it or not.
Rhodes: Suspended 1st 4 games and more of a complimentary back.
Adimchinobe Echemandu: A very pleasant surprise. Should be used as a rotational back.
Fargas: Runs hard, change of pace back + ST warrior.
Bush: On PUP ... hopeful that he can contribute by midseason and be our feature back in 2008.
Come 2008 I would hope our OLine is much improved, Bush is our #1 RB, Rhodes is #2, and Adimchinobe Echemandu is our situational back. And of course...Jordan is cut.
To make best use of our current situation, Kiffin will need to (a) rely on Jordan...ughh (b) use Fargas and Adimchinobe Echemandu in spot duty (c) give FB Griffith a few carries (d) and run a diversified offense that uses all of the available weapons (e) hope that Bush returns to 100% sooner rather than later.
CalicoJack:
I got one of my wishes so maybe I will get the other one....we trade for "LJ" and give-up our "LJ-Duck" in the process....now how does our "RB" field look....DamnGood!!!!
"LJ"-"Eck"-Bush-Rhoads-Fargas-Griffith-
Than we trade "AW" to Tampa for draft picks.....Now we have Culpepper-McCown-Russel.....
PantyRaider....WishinWell!!!!
from espn:
Walter finished 3-for-8 and his most memorable play came when he dropped a snap from center Jeremy Newberry, looked at it for a moment, then kicked the ball before it was recovered by defensive lineman Kevin Huntley. Kiffin scolded Walter as he walked off the field.
walter's gone folks. might as well trade him now to get something rather than just cut him outright.
mike williams looked good yesterday. i really hope this guy as well as buchanon sticks.
To settle the "QB" situation I agree with Scorpio....trade "AW" to Tampa for draft picks....The "Ducks" need a "QB" badly enough to bight on it....
They failed to get Culpepper and their starter has a serious phusical problem that won't go away quickly...."AW" will be cheap for them....give us your 3rd next year....which will probibly be a high 3rd rounder....
Here is how the Raiders need to proceed with "JRus"....
Tell him we will give up $30mil with $10mil garenteed but not to these agents....you come back with a new agent such as the agent for ZackMiller and we will deal....
Now the agents who are trying to hold the Raiders for ransom are finished in the NFL and it gives a message to the next agent who thinks he can proceed this way agaist the Raiders....MrDavis..."Pull-da-Triger".....
PantyRaider....Done-wit-da-Crap!!!!
NFL.com wire reports
TERRE HAUTE, Ind. (Aug. 4, 2007) -- The Indianapolis Colts released veteran defensive tackle Corey Simon....Did not pass his physical...
We don't have any money left to sign him do we....Unless we give him "AW"s money....
PantyRaider....Pull-da-Triger!!!!
bama7
Absolutely unbelievable that the deal hasn't yet been done. I'm sick of hearing speculation from the media with support that goes like, "A person familiar with the negotiations said...", or "a source close to the matter stated..." blah, blah, blah. Fact is, very few people know what the hold up is. What is clear, is that the acceptable parameters of the contract are obvious, so one side is being bullheaded & stupid.
I saw an interview with Marcus Allen and he said from what's he's heard the Raider offer is not much more than what Mario williams got last year. Who knows? I wish both side would just announce what the raider's best offer has been so that the court of public opinion can weigh in on who's to blame. We obviously have a QB problem... I think J Macdonald said our overall qb from yesterday's scrimmage was like 25% (?) It's clear we need to get the QB we selected as the best player in all of the draft into camp NOW... because we have QB issues. This is no time to make a statement or sacrifice this draft pick to make a statement about rookie contracts. I wonder if Al could get around the fear of bonus money being lost to a law incident or a Ricky Williams type walk away from the game, by simply adding incentives that are INCREDIBLE... incentives that force Russell to succeed because they are so powerful?
What "QB" problem are you seeing!!!!
Culpepper-McCown are an obvious upgrade from Collins-Brooks....and than add to that "JRus" when he comes in...and we still have "AW"...how the hell do you see a weakness or a problem....what other team out there has a better group of "QB"s on their roster.....
As for the "INT"s what would you expect playing against the #1 Pass "D" in the freekin NFL....the "O" is learning a new "O" but that "D" is already there....why would you expect anything differant....I would be worried about our "D" if it were any differant....
It has been reported by MrDavis and others that these agents are trying to magnify themselves to future draftees...it's the first time they have had a #1 draftee....why would you hold back from crashing their world down around their heads....and it would be a good example to future agents who think they can do the same thing....if we cave in to their demands now we will be vulnerable in the future and unable to gain other free agents because we don't have money or leaverage....
UnintelgentObservation....
PantyRaider....EyesCrossed!!!!
>>>>>
Bama7
Thanks, Gary... sorry for the oversight... edit my original post to give Porter credit for THREE meaningless good games.
>>>>
I'd amend this to say he hasn't played very well since Rice and Brown left. He did catch a TD in the SB, and I don't recall him playing poorly in the games leading up to the SB... although I do remember that I wished he'd try to keep his toes in bounds on the stretch plays to the sidelines throughout his career.
He certainly hasn't earned the contract we gave him thus far. Time will tell.
I'd think the people that advocated sitting JR for the entire season regardless, would view his holdout as meaningless.
The people that wanted him starting from game one (like moi) are the people that should be upset about the holdout. Not directing this at anyone here, just saying...
Gary:
I agree no doubt....It does not matter to me if "JRus" starts this year or next or the year after....as long as we are getting good "QB" play from our core of "QB"s we can afford to let "JRus" develop...but we need him to be in here for the pre-season so he has a chance to learn...and play...
I want to see what we have....we need to know that we have a good player waiting in the ranks ready to come in when he is needed....the only way that happens is if he is here for camp and gets time under center....and than durring the season if the other "QB"s get us up on a team "JRus" could come in for "CleanUp" duty in the second half and get valuable experiance....
The similarities between Culpepper-n-"JRus" are so close we do not need to change the "O" when we change "QB"s....if McCown can play well in a similar systen than we have great depth....I would want to keep those "QB"s for the "08" season as well....
If we give "JRus" all our money now we will not be able to keep or sign anyone next year....that is what makes this contract an important issue....and if it is true that these agents are creating this situation than it is important to smash them before they gain power....
PantyRaider...CheckMate!!!!
Kiffin allows and encourages the Defense to play in practice as if it's a big game but limits the Offensive line on the stretch and cut scheme to avoid injuries.
Boo hoo the QB's in camp aren't throwing TD's every series and they're making bad decisions under pressure. Get rid of the bums!!! Everyone knows you don't learn from mistakes in Training Camp. Someone should tell Kiffin he's wasting money filming the practices for meetings and evaluations.
>>>>
If we give "JRus" all our money now we will not be able to keep or sign anyone next year....that is what makes this contract an important issue....and if it is true that these agents are creating this situation than it is important to smash them before they gain power....
>>>>
I think this is what Al is also thinking. I'd be surprised he signs before opening day.
I'm starting to write off the two key players for next season before this one even begins... JR and Bush.
Gary:
I don't want to write anyone off but "JRus" may be hurting himself with this hold-out to the point that he does not get any playing time....and I may get the attitude that if you arn't going to help us this year than why should we pay you for the year.....we can just wait until the end of the season to sign him and and use that money for this year.....
As for Bush I think that's a different situation....he may be brought along very slowly to test his injury and protect him for the future....he will be very valuable to us in the future as will "JRus"....but we have enough "QB"s-n-"RB"s in house now to run the "O" this year....
Anony:
"Everyone knows you don't learn from mistakes in Training Camp. Someone should tell Kiffin he's wasting money filming the practices for meetings and evaluations"
I see that as being "Inovative"....a change of pace that gets the veteran players back on focus....and keeps the rookies focused....we have had a focus problem the last few years and "Kiff" won't tollerate that...
With this filming thing a player gets to see what he did wrong or right....and he see's it with his team-mates so there is "Pear-Preasure"....you don't want to let your team-mates down....and if you are the center of too many films ya my not last through camp....The "Turk" is on his way.....
PantyRaider.....StayFocused!!!!
even if russell changes agents, who's to say that the new agents won't pull the same stunt with that option bonus?
I have a feeling that these 2 words will be heard every year from now on when a team drafts and tries to sign a top pick!
How is it that a 21-year-old kid can’t find it in himself to sign a $60 million +/- contract with nearly $30 million guaranteed?
Those numbers are surreal. What do you suppose Russell's saving up to buy?
It's hard to respect someone who thinks too much isn't enough.
Metz.... YOU’RE FIRED!
"BogasOptionBonus"....
Contracts mean nothing anyway...a player signs and promices to play and than develpos an attitude and walks out....or he lys down like "NoMoss"....or he can't consentrate like LamontJordan....or he "Bitches Out the Coach" like Portster the first season after the team gives him more money than he is worth.....
What a worthless bunch we have had here lately....no wonder the Raiders are worried about giving up all their money garenteed to a person they don't really even know....or to an agent who is "EgoTrippin"....
PantyRaider.....Hold-da-Cash!!!!
I think the agent is irrelevant because Al is asking for protections that no other number one has signed on to in the past.
No agent wants to START precedence that doesn't favor the player... that creature does not exist.
Perhaps Al is banking on JR's top notch character and hoping he will tell his agent(s) to go to hell?
BTW... thanx to Raider Take for getting rid of the annoying password thingie that never worked on the first try!
Rarely does a team shit on a player by refusing to pay them....Tenn did it to SteveMcNair by locking him out but the corts held up McNair and he got paid and released....Miami tried it with Culpepper but he also got released as he wanted....but look at how many players have shit on their teams....and still colected money....From BarrySanders to LarryJohnson....that is a huge list....
It's about time the teams started getting some protection.....if this crap keeps up we will no longer have the NFL....
PantyRaider...NoFootballLeague!!!!
This is getting to be another game of "who do you believe?"
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Avpp9sWV6qyi_odsYVs5TcxDubYF?slug=jc-raidersrussell080507&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
RaiderRealist:
I question what this artical is saying....they just keep quoating what a "Source" said....that could be "Faida" da Dork for all we know....
It should be easy to check up on how many 1st rounders these guys have represented....and did they do it on their own or as part of a group where they were "Servents" of the actual nagotiators....so what this artical is saying is that these guys have represented about 1 1st rounder per year for the last 24 years....there would have been about 600 1st rounders drafted durring that time and they have had 25 of them...boy isn't that imprssive....
PantyRaider....LiersGalor!!!!
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