News You Can't Use
Can’t a guy get any sleep around here? Will the sports media just stop printing asinine, immature and/or biased Raiders stories long enough for me to get some rest and relaxation? Is that too much to ask?
Apparently.
The latest crime against logic comes from the San Francisco Chronicle (surprise!). It’s so egregious that I almost can’t believe it. According to this article's headline, “Adimchinobe Echemandu’s arrival has resulted in coaches’ exits.”
Here’s the relevant excerpt: “Coach Lane Kiffin says running back Adimchinobe Echemandu might be ‘the surprise player’ of the Raiders
For a moment I thought I was reading The Onion or some other satiric vehicle. I kept waiting for the punch line. It never came. I mean, come on, if you're that desperate when it comes to finding a story angle, maybe you shouldn't be in the newspaper business in the first place.
Here we have this great training camp story, a young kid struggling to stay in the NFL who suddenly blossoms before our very eyes, possibly earning a key spot on the roster.
How classy. Guess Adimchinobe won’t be sending that article home to mom.
Now, what’s more likely, this heretofore unknown kid with a grand career total of eight rushes to his name somehow having any remote influence on front-office decisions—or this kid’s talent lying unnoticed while he’s had the bad luck to land on teams whose incompetent coaches have earned their exits in a league that has turned the head coaching position into a turnstile?
And that, Raiders fans, is news you can’t use.
Labels: News You Can't Use
posted by Raider Take at 5:31 PM
112 Comments:
What a shame. Adimchinobe is a terrific athlete & young man who is really stepping it up in camp. Incidentally, he is the cousin of Nnamdi.
The leap in logic that he is a "coach killer" based on a whopping 8 carries on bad teams is asinine, unprofessional, and slanderous.
RT, I'm afraid you will never be off the hook on "News You Can't Use" ... at least we will be entertained on a regular basis.
Maybe the Chronicle can do a follow up story on the NFL's conduct policy governing players using voodoo against their coaches.
hey guys, sorry to change the topic but according to the chron, russell is staying with a cousin at the Cal campus? could a signing be near?
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article
.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/
2007/08/08/SPGQ1REGA811.DTL
One thing to remember is that newspaper writers very rarely actually write their own headlines – that's up to some editor somewhere. Granted the article was trying to be cute, but there are plenty of aspects on our training camp that could be addressed (how our O-line is doing, linebacker play, etc.).
On a different note, am I the only one that's not concerned about Russell not being in camp yet? In many ways, it's a good thing for the Raiders, since they won't be tempted to throw him to the lions (literally and figuratively) too early in the season. The Raiders knew all along what the salary implications were when they drafted him, it's really now just down to semantics and guaranteed bonus money. There's no way they're going to let him not sign and go back into the draft next year. Meanwhile, we get to see what our new 1-year wonder QBs have in the tank. Once Russell signs, Walter will have a "mysterious injury" that puts him on the IR so that we can keep him (and his cheap 3rd round salary) for next year and beyond.
Thanks, CJ!
Yes, I think voodoo would be a great follow-up story, Heartland, it fits right into the Chronicle's wheelhouse!
Russel's hiding in Berkley!?
Good point about the headline, Sirrastusbear. However, whether it's the reporter or the editor or a combination thereof, the sum total is an abomination for which the paper alone is responsible.
The premise could be construed as cute, but the presentation (in both story and headline) is so humorless that I really have to wonder.
As far as Russell is concerned, I'm trying to stay in a zen state while my finger creeps toward the panic button.
Berkeley's campus is no place for a millionaire.
Seriously though, I REALLY doubt Russell's staying in Berkeley ––at least not near the campus.
Bit it would have been a touching gesture, I guess.
-kvn
Let's hope JRuss celebrates his birthday by signing the dotted line ... his birthday is tomorrow.
The fact that he is in Berkley is encouraging. Does that tie into global warming? I'm sure Heartland will enjoy the irony of JRuss out of the "shotgun" formation. Tee hee hee. :)
Well Calico thanks for proving I'm not the only idiot in this room.
But at least I can read, that article only stated that Russell had visited his cousin and stayed in his room, not when. Russell is reported to be in Alabama.
CalicoJack:
GollyGee....I can't wait to get it in the mail....I can set the world on fire and speed up the "Warmin" thing....I hate the cold....
"HanginOut" in Berkeley ain't so bad....I was there for a year at the marina when I sailed back from Hawaii....there are worse places to be...and it is easy to get to the stadium....just jump on the "Bart" for a couple dollars and don't have to worry about parking and long lines of slow trafic....I made all the games that year....but that was the "Bugal" year and it "Sucked"....
Now I wish I was not 200 miles from the stadium....I would be at the game Saturday....it's so much better to see in real time instead of on TV....there is alot ya don't see when not at the event....like the "Raiderets".....
PantyRaider.....ShotGunFormation!!!
Calico Jack, that was classic, you covered all of the bases with that one. Brilliant!
Alabama aye!!!
Maybe we can get Bama7 to go and wake him up and get his Ass to work.....
Yeah, I know they're two or three hours ahead out there in 'Bama, but that's no excuse!
RT:
Are you as excited as I am about this weeks game....I can't wait to see what our "O" looks like under CoachKiff....after watching that "Crap" last year it will be nice to see our team be able to exicute a play....and to see if we have an "OL" that can play together....new "QB"s and "RB"s and the "TE"s in a new "GamePlan"...Modern even....
PantyRaider....EyesWideOpen!!!!
Good question. I am...and yet I'm not.
Is it just me, or does this year's first preseason game seems to be too much, too soon--despite the fact that we started even earlier (August 6) last year?
There's sort of a time compression going on, with this new coaching regime and all these new players, compounded by the fact that our alleged savior at QB is still hiding out in Berkley or parts unknown while our presumed starter at QB was signed just last week.
I don't know what to say, I'm just getting my bearings, and all of a sudden we're playing four quarters?
I've got my sights set on the Lions in September. Until then, call me disoriented.
preseason means nothing to me. we just get to see the third stringers play more that's all.
they may as well call it a scrimmage game.
very boring to watch sometimes, but it gives out the hint of blood for the football season. it is usually toward the end of preseason where i start getting that old football twitch. :D
Bama7
Jruss oughta sign just to get out of LA (Lower Alabama) We're in a damn heat wave here like I've never been in. No matter how hard you pump the AC, the temp in the house won't go below 83 or so during the day. My power bill was over $300 last time, so this time it'll probably be $400 (that's extremely high here). It's feakin hot like you've never felt and been going on for about a week. Outside last night at 8:30 it was 92... and the sun was gone!
As for camp, what do y'all think of Brayton being moved to 2nd string DT? More evidence that this coaching staff has it together? I think so.
I saw the SF Chron article too, I couldn't even finish it. They seemed to have run out of things to speculate on and really dug deep into the 'Bag of Hate' this time.
A few things from camp you probably saw but I want to throw out there:
1) Sapp says Culpepper is playing hurt and/or a little cautious outside the pocket. I'd love to start him but it seems like we need to take it slower than we are. Let the poor guy heal up and he could be the next Plunkett.
2)Mario Henderson is getting reps at RT. Could he replace Green? I give it 'till about mid-season, he's still raw. Can't wait to see him (& others) Saturday.
3) The coaches like Boothe but say he needs to improve his mobility to play in this system. 'Lose some weight' is the way I take it. Hopefully we can get this guy fitting in the system at some point. It'd be a shame to let this talent go.
Psycho
Personally, I'm looking forward to the game this weekend...want to see if the O-line performance in any way looks like real football [I'm optimistic]...and want get a look at Kiffin's offense, vanilla as it may be this weekend. I'm hoping JaMarcus will be in camp after the weekend...hope McCown looks good; every incentive helps
Interesting to note that the ONE article I've seen regarding Culpepper still hurting form his knee injury is from a San Diego paper.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/nfl/afcwest/2007/08/culpepper_hurting.html
Either the claim is bogus, or that's exactly how bad our local coverage is. But it doesn't seem likely that Culpepper with be the number 3 QB this weekend if he was hurting, because he'd be going in with the 3rd team offensive line.
As for Saturday's game, don't expect a good view of Kiffin's offense. Don't forget that coaches hold back in the preseason to maintain some element of surpise in the regular season.
Look for players who seem to be crisp in their assignments, game tempo... that sort of thing. And, as always, there will be some rookie in the 4th quarter who will turn heads, but don't forget that he's accomplishing those feats against a 3rd team defense.
Blanda - I heard Sapp's comments on Russell from Jerry McDonald's blog so I think it's trustworthy, if only one man's opinion.
Saturday I'm just hoping to see a profesional team take the field. And as always in preseason, individual performances. Kif & the O coaches are experimenting with who goes in the booth and who stays on the field, so hopefully it goes well. Enthusiasm, teamwork, tempo, awareness, and hitting people hard is what I'm looking for in the players. Oh and if Grove doesn't get angry and/or put someone on the ground at least one time I'm calling for Newberry. Up to 'Here' I tell ya'!
Psycho
I meant Sapp's comments on Culpepper (Being hurt), not Russell. See I'm already confusing these two large guys with cannons.
Psycho
The game on TV.
Since the game is local, and won't be sold out, the game on TV won't be live. The actual game starts at 7:00PM, but I think the television broadcast begins at 10:00PM. It doesn't bother me that I'll likely know the final score before watching the game, because it's preseason and doesn't mean anything anyway. It's all about the quality and the improvement of the work.
Speaking of cannons. Jerry McD also said our 3 QBs were seeing who could make a trainer drop the first ball in rollout drills. Culpepper won, and the guy's left hand hurt so bad he only tried catching with one wand afterwards and had to visit the trainer.
Psycho
i'm placing money down right now that we do see mccown and walter block on a running play.
i will tell you how much preseason means, even though we went 4-1 last preseason, our offense struggled all 4 games. 16-10 over philly, 16-13 over minnesota, 23-7 over the whiners (and the most we scored all season), 21-3 over the dandylions, and them lost 30-7 to the seahags.
all i'm looking for this preseason is how the offense moves the ball, and how much time the defense spends off the field. if we struggle moving the ball, we're not going to fair much better this season. if we move the ball consistently, then i think we are going to shut everyone up.
i will say, by the looks of it, how the o-line has been pretty even with the d-fense scrimmaging against each other, i think our offense stands a great chance.
DepthChart....Interesting to view
Morant seems to have sliped to the bottom of the "WR"s
There is NO sign of Bush at "RB"...
Gallery-n-McQuistan are holding down the "LG"....two guys we were expecting alot from last year....
On the "D"...
Darius is backing up Huff....NOT on the field at the same time....
Brayton is backing up Sapp as was already reported....
I am surprised by some of this chart but it is not yet formal
As for the Game I am totally excited....I have not seen my team take the field as a team for several seasons and hope to see it Saturday....Last year it appeared early on that ArtShell's Raiders were going to be a team but by the time we played Seattle in the preseason it was all over....and went down hill from then on....
I need to see what this "O" looks like so I can start to form an opinion about the "07" season....as of now I have NO idea what the hell our team will even look like....
How do they run the ball...DownHill???..CutBack???
Is there a "MoveingPocket"...
What is the "OL" blocking Scheem...
What are the "WR" routs..Deap, Shallow or Wide...
On "D"...
Is the Pass Defense still #1...
How do they play our "S"s...Strong-n-Weak????
Can they stop the run...
Can they get after the "QB"...
PantyRaider....ThingsToWatchFor!!!
I expect our O to look diecent. They've been holding their own OK against a top notch D almost every day. The Cards should be easy by comparison so if our O looks anying less than average I'll start to wonder. Still time to fix it though, so I won't panic if not.
We need to just take a page from the late, great Bill Walsh because he's been here. One step at a time. First you earn respect from teams by out-hitting them and playing tougher than they do. After that's established, and we're not the laughing stock of the league, we'll talk about winning a game or two (not a pun). I suppose that's the #1 thing I want to see not only Saturday, but the whole year.
Psycho
Psycho:
Since you bring up Bill Walsh, I thought I'd mention the advantage of coming off a 2-14 season.
The first year the Whiners went to the Super Bowl, the Cowboys played them early in the season. The Whiners had had several bad years in a row, but at least, up to that point, they had been playing tougher for Walsh. The Cowboys took them so completely for granted that they didn't even bother to notice that Candlestick Park had replaced it's artificial surface with natural grass. The Cowboys showed up in their artificial turf shoes with no cleets. I think the Whiners crushed them by thirty points with their OL and DL using the Cowboys like blocking sleds.
The Raiders should be prepared for some teams to take them lightly so they can take advantage of that and send them home with their tails between their legs.
That's a perfect example, and a funny one. If only our luck were that good. I have a feeling we'll still have to fight hard for everything we get.
Psycho
Bama7
I'd like to make a comment about Zach Miller and how important I think he'll be to changing our fortunes in the AFC West (if we can find someone to get him the ball!). With Porter, Higgens, Curry and Taylor on our roster... whenever we are in a 3 WR set the Broncos will be forced to have Lynch or a LB on Zach Miller. Kiffen should look to force that match-up. If it happens, I'm betting it proves the end of Lynch's storied career. I don't see how that's not a completion every time. I don't see a LB or Lynch stopping it.
BlandaRocked:
Lets hope it's the "Dolts" who take us lightly or someone like that....a team who fully expects to just walk in and dominate the Raiders....that will be such a pleasure to watch if it happens and the Raiders "Spike" their asses in the turf....But we will have to earn it as Psycho said...they won't give it to us....
The "BirthDayBoy" has not showed up yet....looks like it won't happen....are they still talkin or have they walked out....
PantyRaider....Impaitiant!!!!
Raiders notes: McCown to start Saturday
Well at least now we know....and Walter is second and than Culpepper....
PantyRaider.....
Heartland:
Thank you for the clarification on Russell. It was kind of you to point out that I'm an illiterate idiot. I'm glad we got that cleared up.
Sincerely,
Calico Jack
The least I could do...
at least you're not in denial
Wow...Dig the "Raiderfan" Theripy Session....Hope the outside world does not see this....the "Mediot"s will jump all over that one....they will say they have evidense that all Raiderfans are Psychotic....No offense Psycho....but it's nice to see such "BrotherlyLove" in practice....Fans-Helpin-Fans...what a beautiful thing....now if only someone could help me with my spelling....
PantyRaider....FeelinLeftOut!!!!
It looks like JRuss has bought a home in Oaktown. Is he close to signing? A friend says, "yes."
http://www.mercurynews.com/raidersheadlines/ci_6590115?nclick_check=1
LOL thanks Panty. Not all of us are psychotic, but you need a least a few of us. I serve a purpose. From what I hear, D.Darius is kind of psychotic out there. He talks to himself too. My best friend is a big JAX fan.
Psycho
Coach Kiffin - "We want to play really well is what we want to do. And we want to be very consistent and perform real well. However that score comes out, we need to execute really well and do our fundamentals really well and not turn the ball over."
I get the feeling he want's the Raiders to play 'Really Well'!! He used to use the word 'Great' excessively and I think we've been down-graded to 'Really Well' so is that bad? Not to bash coach, he just trips me out sometimes.
Psycho
Anyone read Phil Barber's Press Democrat blog today? His take is that the offense isn't gelling. Here's a relevant excerpt:
"More generally, the offensive group just looks out of synch. Even the last few days, Kiffin or Knapp had to get the offense to re-huddle several times because it lined up too slowly, or in the wrong formation. In team session Wednesday morning, Kiffin stepped into the huddle and barked, "Read the (bleepin') card. Fullback and tight end start here, then mash to the left. It's a waste of (bleepin') time."
One thing I'll say about our offense, it's apparently not loaded with rocket scientists.
The good news RT is that was the worst day of practice for the offense. The next day, they had their best day.
I say get it out now before the season. I think there's a picture of Kiffin holding up the play cards on the Raiders Photo Gallery too.
It sounds like our offense is contrived of a bunch of engineers who don't like to read the directions before putting stuff together. :D
Psycho:
Did you see the "MugShot" of "CaveManRyan" at Raiders.Com....he looks Psychotic and I hope his "D" plays that way..."Just Take Their Freekin Heads Off"....
As for the "O"....If they can just improve this year to #15 we will have a winning team....I don't remember how big of a jump NewOreleans "O" made last year but I think it was above #15 so anything is posible....I believe #15-#18 is where the "Donko"s and "Squaw"s were last year....
PantyRaider....GOOOOoooRaiders!!!
Good, because it's been three straight years of our team being unable to hustle to the line regardless of the clock or circumstances, and it's really starting to piss me off! If it happens this season, I'm going to FREAK OUT.
Here is an interesting artical about the Raiders in the LATimes....at the end of the artical they show some stats about last year....just how bad was it....very bad...this is what stood out the most to me....
2007 second-half scoring
(includes overtime):
Raiders…45
Carolina…108
Tampa Bay…128
Arizona…129
Cleveland…135
Green Bay…135
Atlanta…135
NFL average…168
PantyRaider....Shameful!!!!
Falling off at half time was 99% the fault of our coaching staff since they seemed to have no concept of the word 'adjustment'. When I hear things like what RT posted, Kif yelling and cussing, I feel a whole lot better even if our O doesn't have many rocket scientists. I think Boothe might be our only rocket scientist and he isn't even a starter yet. This year we focused on character and enthusiasm. Maybe next year we'll pick up a 'rocket scientist' or two, to help point the 'trash men' and 'KC Chiefs' into the right positions.
Psycho
hey believe it or not, someone at sports illustrated actually had something good to say about the raiders; he may be out of a job now, but good for him. check it out.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/bucky_brooks/08/10/raiders.postcard/index.html
Remarkable. He clearly doesn't have the hate credentials to be a columnist at SI. He'll be demoted to copy editor shortly.
rt,
he definitely forgot to drink his haterade before that article. just like the kc chiefs writer who wrote that the afc west should fear the raiders again.
i'm looking for the 4 horseman of the apocolypse after that one. i'll definitely know it's the end of the world if i ever see something like that on the donkeys site.
What the...? I just read that SI article. Not only someone who doesn't HATE the Raiders, but someone who actually paid some attention to what they've been trying to accomplish.
Uh, oh... holy crap! A pig just flew by my window.
blanda,
i also heard the devil say that there was a cold breeze in hell, and small white flaky things floating down slowly.
His life will be spared during my SI shooting spree.
Psycho
bama7
In regards to possible continued problems with our offense and its flow, getting to the line, assignments, blocking etc... it reminds me of the Chiefs a few years back. Remember when they had that great offense BUT LOUSY defense. And finally they fired the defensive coordinator and brought in G. Cunningham who was so good for them back during the Derick Thomas, Neal Smith days? everyone was wondering why they made little if no personnel changes, and also wondered if the problems were merely scheme. Well, if I remember correctly, after that season they sort of realized that it wasn't just the scheme that needed changing, but the players too.
I'm hopeful this isn't the case with our O-line, but N Turner, while not a good coach, was not a lousy offensive guy and guys like Grove, Galllery, Simms etc were not good under him either. We may need more new lineman than just a banged up vet (newberry), two so-so cut blocking veterans (carlisle and green) and a 3rd draft choice.
Wish we had the money to grab Pete Kendall.
And after reading Sapp's comments on Culpepper not having his knees it looks obvious why both the vikes and dolphins gave up on him. I like the guy, but he just can't seem to get back any mobility and it's affecting his game. I'm pulling for the guy but it looks like he may be a mere ploy to get Russell into camp. In short, we still have no QB and very suspect O-line.
bama7
Anybody else think maybe the Russell deal is done and perhaps Al & co are keeping it mum 'til Sunday so as to better gauge the team without the distractions that the announcement will surely bring?
Yeah.... Every major media outlet in the country and the whole Raider organization promised to keep it a secret to better gauge the team without the distractions that the announcement will surely bring?
It would seem that Russell doesn't place himself in a strong negotiating posture by purchasing a home in Oakland, so Bama may be right about a deal being close... assuming Russell is smart enough to realize the obvious.
However, signing a contract to purchase a home is a long way from purchasing. Any realtor (or lawyer) can place conditional language in a contract that protects Russell in the event he is unable to complete his deal with Oakland. While Russell's circumstance may be somewhat unusual, it's akin to purchasing a new home conditional upon selling your existing house... aka in NY as a 48-hour contract.
So one may have nothing to do with the other and the Raiders gain no apparent leverage with this news.
Bama7
Heartland you're like that furry old Grinch living up in a cave above Whoville.
Why would every major media oulet have to know about it if Russell's agent and Al's crew agreed to keep it quiet one day?
Damn you're an argumentative fu*&.
Heartland:
How do you bring out so much "Raider" LUV.....it's un-real....and your on our side right....so glad ya ain't agin us....ya even got "MrNegativity" going after ya....
PantyRaider....KeepsMeLaughin!!!
I don't think a deal is done. If it was done, the Raiders & Russell would have not reason or motivation to keep it a secret. When the deal gets done (which could be tomorrow or next month, for all we know), you can bet your last dollar that a major announcement and press conference will follow.
Gee, I agree with Heartland. I guess 2 idiots think alike every blue moon. :)
Bama7
Yeah, I know he can get out of a contingency contract. Just wishful thinking on my part. I'm ready to get his butt in there... see what he can do.
And I know the thought of Russell being in camp just ruins Heartland's day. At least Scorpio wants him to do good regardless.
Heartland, maybe you're boy Walter will have a decent night. He did pretty well against the Cards last year. The young lad's probably licking his chops. And he may even get a 2nd string defense and Travis Taylor to help him out.
As for me, Mr Negativity still feels we need at least one tough lineman to go with Newberry. I just don't see the talent on the line. Kendall's been demoted in NY and wants out. The Jets don't want to cut him out of fear he'll end up in the AFC east.
It's just money. Send them Schweigert.
Jerry McDonald wrote a nice article on the Raiders in preparation for their 1st preseason game.
http://www.ibabuzz.com/raidersblog/2007/08/10/training-camp-day-15/
It’s all about baby steps right now. It’s not fair to expect this offense to become the Saints or Colts overnight.
The way I see it (consistent with Mr. McDonald), our initial improvement should come from simple things like efficient clock management, protecting the ball (includes getting rid of the ball fast to prevent sacks) and field position. As JM suggests, “playing field position and punting without a turnover can be a good possession...” particularly if our D is solid.
It’s ironic that JM feels we lack depth at CB, so RT’s perfectly sarcastic prediction we’ll draft more DB’s is likely to become reality. Safeties should play a larger role in our coverage schemes. With (field marshall) Darius out there, Huff is likely to provide that role.
QB is probably going to remain shaky until we establish some solidarity with our line play, and perhaps not truly until (if and when) Russell has established himself. A good QB can do wonders with even the most pedestrian corp of WR’s.
Having Zach Miller may be the single-largest plus for us on offense. Don’t look for Jordan to miraculously learn how to catch the ball - it ain’t gunna happen. However, he’ll have a lot of outlet help at FB and TE.
X-factor... Warren Sapp is on a mission to make the pro bowl. Rookie help at DE and Burgess being himself should create even more opportunities. And if our offense can score, teams will actually need to drop back and pass. Our man-to-man coverages should allow Sapp and company to do some real damage. Sands in the middle “full-time” has got to help our run D. IMHO
NYRaider:
I like your outlook but one small corection....it seems that Darius is backing up Huff at one "S" position so they won't be on the field at the same time....that's according to the "DepthChart" but that could change....it will be interesting to watch tonight and see how they line up....
"QB"...We have 2 guys who have ample experiance and at one time played very well on other teams...it is a matter of how well CoachKiff can get them comfortable in this "O"....that could be quickly but it could also be a long season....let's hope he does a better job than "Walshed-up" and "Stoooopid" did.....Thank god their gone....
PantyRaider....Anxious!!!!
Game On FOX....
I looked and in my area....MorroBay's CentralCoast....the game will be at 7:00pm on FOX....it is the only game being shown locally....according to the listing in the paper....Hopefully it will also be on in some of your area's....it's also telivised in LA....this info is for you who have satilites so you may be able to fine the game....if you can tune in our TV stations....
PantyRaider....TotallyExcited!!!
Kind of ironic that we're starting a QB, McCown, whom we could have had last year, while the Cardinals are starting Leinart, whom we could have had last year, while Russell, who hopefully rectifies our longtime neglect at the QB position, watches on TV with the rest of us.
If Vince Young, Matt Leinart and Jay Cutler can all start last year and set the tone for their teams this year, then I sure hope we can get Russell in soon and put him on a similar timeline.
The Philip Rivers timeline isn't very helpful unless Culpepper is truly healed and reborn.
PantyRaider-
I would expect to see Huff and Darius in at the same time quite a bit in Ryan's nickle defense. Darius brings a LB mentality to the safety position... similar to what many of us thought Bing would provide. Our 5 DB's will likely revolve around our starting corners, Stu, Huff and Darius. Not a bad combination on any defense. Two words come to mind..."coverage sacks."
Postgame take: Huh...
PostGameTake:
I like most of what I see....but McCown looked like he is in "SloooowMotion" and not starting material....Walter was crisp and sharp....he may not practice well but he played well....
My Man....Culpepper....Oh! My1....he looked like shit....his first play was a fumbled snap and his second posision went backwards....his 3rd position was a "BlackOut" because of network problems....and then he showed up and started playing.....I was impressed....the "MadBomber" is back in the "O"....now I am glad we got him and I don't see any weakness in that knee....he ran around free as a bird.....
The Negatives...."D"....we need to teach the "D"Backs to catch the damn ball....they should have had 4 more "INT"s in this game....we had a few let downs on a "TD" play but all-n-all they played a very good game with lot's of preasure and agression.....and they were stoping the run....
"ST"....what an improvement...aside from the last position by "AZ" the special teams held them in check and gained good field position of their own.....and made long "FG"....
"OL"....played faily well together...had some protection problems on pass plays early on in the game....also made mistakes like FalseStarts....the run was working well at times but inconsistant early until "Eche" came into the game....I believe he is a "Keeper".....things got together and they finished very well...
"WR"-n-"TE" is going to be a strength....Portster was "Rocken-n-Rollin" out there but he had a drop....the "TE" is catchin everything thrown at him.....but they need to learn to catch Culpepper's balls because they had several drops....
I think we have an "O" in OakTown....something to really look forward to for this season and the "D" is still there and very much for real....
PantyRaider.....VeryPleased!!!!!
panty, i agree - walter did do pretty well. showed some poise and even threw a TD pass to another guy i hope makes this team - mike williams. and i agree with you about mccown. he did NOT look like starting material tonight.
btw, at the nation celebration last thursday, getting a chance to see this guy live and in person. in looking at #6 (also a williams) i though "what weight problem? then i saw #17 (the actual mike williams) and saw that he is one of the biggest receivers i have ever seen. and we're not talking just tall but wide. he could be a valuable asset in the red zone as we saw tonight if we keep him.
janikowski is back in mid-season form. short kickoffs! why do our announcers always whine for him about kicking off the dirt infield when their guy kicks a 59 yarder off that same dirt!?
i really like the TE combo of miller and madsen!
we still have a ways to go but i being in the computer field can compare this years O to last years O as being an intel dual core vs. a celeron!
I didn’t see the game, but listened to it on Internet radio. Walter seemed to be the best of the 3 QB’s, albeit against their 2nd team. He’ll probably start next week to mix things up.
Porter, Z Miller and Curry will all be solid. And Mike Williams did exactly what Kiffin said he would, i.e., use his size in the end zone. IMO Williams will have to screw up to lose the roster spot which he confirmed last night.
The long TD pass play by Warner was a big letdown, and fumbles by McCown and Culpepper weren’t even forced.... very ugly. Tough to really point fingers or make inference since it’s only the first pre-season game. Not too bad, but much room for improvement. It would have been great to see Russell take some snaps.
I am checking the weather channel to see if hell has frozen over....
http://www.mercurynews.com/raidersheadlines/ci_6605830
Echemandu is the bomb. He just refused to go down. And he's just a little dude. His desire to kick ass is what this team needs. His straight-arm was wicked. Not only should he make the team, but he should start. He showed way more desire than the starters. This guy's special.
memdf:
Interesting artical....it sounded like he was trying to say something bad but did not have the fuel for it....so he just kept implying that the inprovement only looked good because it is compaired to the worst team in history...."06"....not wanting to give actual credit to the Raiders as if they were a "Real" NFL Franchise....they just look good compaired to a HighSchool team....
NYRaider:
I agree "A&W" should start next week against the SadFranchiseWinners....followed by Culpepper and McCown can have "Clean-Up" duties if "JRus" is not in the house....
By what I saw last night "A&W" is a "Keeper"....but McCown is not....he should be traded to "TB" for a 4th....or maybe a 3rd.....
Culpepper is also a "Keeper" because once the guy get's comfortable he is going to be a "Force"....his stats would have been much better if the "WR"s could catch the damn ball.....instead it went right thru their hands....Get these guys some "Stick-em"....
MikeWilliams is so big I thought he was a "TE"...I kept trying to remember who that "TE" is and then when I looked up the stats and saw his name "Mike" I remembered....he is going to be a "Force"....
In a 3 "WR" set we could have Curry-Porter-Williams and the "TE" Miller all on the field at the same time and drive the "D" nuts....add to that a "RB" who can run-n-catch and "HollyMolly"....we got an "O".....
The "QB" depth is there now so that becomes a position of strength...once McCown is traded and "JRus" is signed....
Pantyraider....SweetDreams!!!!
MikeR:
I had to look it up...."Eche" is 5 lbs smaller than Jordan and the same hight but runs like a "Giant"....I agree...trade Lamont and let "Eche" start....we could save alot of "Cap" money....maybe we could send McCown-n-Jordan to "KC" for "LJ" who is holding out.....
PantyRaider....Impressive"LittleDude"!!!
I know it's early, but watching that game I got a real feeling of validation. We've heard all the talk through the months, just like every other 4-12, 5-11, and 2-14 year. It's always 'different', but this year, under this coaching staff, it just might truely be 'different' for once.
You can see it in the way players fly around and seem to know what they're doing. You can see it in the play calling, even if it's forced to be vanilla.
21 first half points and I think only one penalty out of the first 2 groups. Sapp said it all, "We can work with that".
Still a ways to go obviously but I won't dwell on the negatives yet. I'm too busy looking forward to seeing what kind of damage we can do. We'll definately put up an average looking team at the very least, something to build on, and better yet something to not get our 'great' young coach fired.
Most importantly though, to me anyways, we out-hit those guys and pretty much played physical enough to earn some respect around here.
Psycho
ShortList of players who I think made it difficult to be cut....
"O"
#16..QB..Walter.....Consistant-n-Crisp
#8...QB..Culpepper..4th quarter Pro
#38..RB..Ecgemandu..Tough Runner
#33..RB..Rhoads.....Strong Runner
#36..FB..Griffith...Strong Runner-n-Reciever
#45..TE..Miller.....Catch in Trafic
#85..TE..Madsen.....Consistant Reciever
#84..WR..Porter.....Agressive Play
#17..WR..Williams...Great Catches
#15..WR..Higgins....TD speed but had drops
"D"
#48..DE..Clemons....Agressive Pass Rush
#91..DT..Brayton....Agressive Run Support
#31..FS..Eugene.....Int and agressive Play
"CutList"
#1...WR..Taylor.....Confused and had drops
#12..QB..McCown.....Slow-n-Late, Aukward
PantyRaider....Turk'sCommin!!!!!
"A&W" may have silenced the critics...
"Andrew played really well," Kiffin said. "He did good, had good command, good presence in the huddle."
14 play drive for the "TD"....
PantyRaider.....Keeper!!!!
Bama7
YEah, looks like a tough decision awaits if/when Russell gets in camp. Which QB gets cut? All three did well last night. Work gets a little tougher next week with San Fran's D. This may come down to the Seahawk game and whoever does best there in that situation. Hope Russell's there for it.
There's no question Andrew Walter can make this team. It's all about his ability to run Kiffin's offense. So far so good.
Panty-
Keep the game posts coming. I will watch the re-broadcast on nfl network tonight at 10:00 my time in Chicago. (I did listen to the game on the radio/internet broadcast live last night.) It is heartening to hear and read so much upside.
Kawasaki is setting us up for the next time he can fight nancy gay for seat 1, row 1 in the haters section. I therefore retract my original semi-upbeat comment about his column. Funny, because I usually don't even read hater articles once I see who's by line it is. It must have been the difference between 10 am coffee and 10 pm beer.
BTW I will be flying out for the opener (also going to MN and GB) and would love to meet any/all regular RT posters.
Dave
memdf
I was shocked to see Walter look much better than McCown. Although you don't hear great things about McCown in camp, Walter was really looking like the odd man out with Pepper in town since McCown's skill sets 'fit' better on paper.
It could be a completely opposite outcome next week or the week after. But it makes me wonder. I think it was blandarocked who said "Walter is here to stay" and "McCown will be gone", or something like that when Pepper was signed. That may very well be the case. And this may very well be the reason a guy of Daunte's calliber was brought in. Even if only for a year, you don't usually bring in a guy like Daunte unless you expect him to start. And Kif may very well have lost confidence in McCown once he got to town.
The fact that McCown started the game might suggest that this was his one and only chance to prove himself against a 1st string D in an actual game. Maybe he'll get another shot since he eventually scored, Idunno but it seems more like a 'see what you can REALLY do' than a an 'OK he might be our starter' situation.
Daunte seems to be picking up the system at a cyborg-like rate, and his knee looked OK to me. 3rd string or not I'm putting my money on him.
Psycho
memdf:
Sounds great...my friend here is a "PussyCat" Fan and want's to go up for the game so I may hook up with him and go...If so I will let you know and try to get together...."RT" goes to most games so maybe we can all hook-up...
Let us know how it looks to you tonight...watching the game and not having to anticipate the out-come may make it easy to be more objectionable....
Psycho:
I hope your right....I was thinking that Culpepper was brought in because of the problems signing "JRus" but that may not have been the case...It may be that they did not plan to start "JRus" this year and wanted a better "QB" to lead the team than what they had in McCown...
I thought Walter was on his way out when the surgery thing went down durring the "MiniCamps"....and than for sure when he did not pick up his fumble durring practice...but his play last night was impresive and Kiff comented on that and singled him out as a good performer...he just looked confident and the team played that way when he was in...
PantyRaider....GreatExpectations!!!
this is encouraging talk to hear of walter. i hope he can keep it up! this just might be the fair shake he's needed all along! if he continues looking good in actual games, he'll make it a hard decision for the coaching staff.
Where's "artie boy shell-lacked shocked" when you needhim? They look like they could use "tommy walshrag" too! You MAROONS are already acting like the faidas are gonna do something on offense this year, nice ball handling "culpumper", And the defense.....you DOOFUS' really think the faidas have a # 3 rated defense in the NFL? Wake up fanatics, get out the pirate hats and the face paint and the aluminum foil covered cardboard shoulder spikes, masks and magilla gorilla rilla suits....it's gonna be a long HARD season on your faidas! just defend the nation babies, 0-16 in a murder capital of the USA near you.
From Sixptstar:
My projected QB depth chart for the start of the season:
Cut: McCown. Too bad. I wanted him signed last year. He just didn't do well (too premature for that statement?). And correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he's the highest paid QB on the roster right now. He can't compete with Culpepper once Culpepper gets settled in. Even if he performed well for the season, we lose him without compenstation due to the fact he has 1 year on his contract.
Third String: Russell. He'll get signed but will probably not play with Culpepper and Walter playing well.
Back-up: Culpepper. Same issue of not carrying any trading power at the end of the season even if he played well. He can stand eye to eye with Russell and tutor him during the games.
Starter: Walter. Think "Trade Value". If he sucks through the first few games, sit him down. But if he does well through the season, he'll still be under contract. And, don't forget, he was a 4th rounder (again, correct me if i'm wrong RT). That means we got him cheap.
An experienced starter who is playing well and playing cheap will carry a lot of trading power next year. I've always been a fan of his and I hate to see him go. But Russell is in our future and I would hate to see Walter get stuck on the team like Tui did.
Anyone know what the timetable is for Michael Bush? Last I read was he was supposed to be ready for camp but now not seeing any info and it doesn't appear he's practicing?
Way to turn a positive into a negative, Nancy Gay:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-
bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/
08/12/SP6TRHC0M.DTL
Apparently my prayers were not answered. I suppose her house was not smashed by a meteor during the big annual meteor shower last night.
Psycho
Not sure about Bush, I think they're just being really cautious.
Will someone please let #38 Eche(something) run with the 1's & 2's to see what he can really do? That guy deserves a good look for the "Thunder" position to complement Rhodes' "Lightning".
Rhodes looked good too. And the O-Line didn't look horrible, wow! Only 2 sacks, 2x16=32, only 44% of last years 72 total sacks if we could maintain such a rate. Although I hate to say it, Gallery was probably the worst of the 1st group and the word 'bust' was lingering in the back of my head. It's not time yet, hopefully he pulls through.
I was ready to bench Grove before 2007 even started but he seemed to do well with some nice pushing in the run game for once.
Psycho
Thanks--a little googling and it looks like Bush is on the PUP list for the time being...
We had our offense on the field for 33:41, and our defense for 26:19. That is a major improvement there. We were 8-17 on 3rd down, we gave up 2 sacks, and seemed to move the ball well.
Penalties, run defense, and rust seemed to be the big problems that immediately stood out to me (in that order too). We will see how this is rectified in our next game.
We had some great movement offensively, and that has made my weekend.
My takes...
This is the best offense I've seen in the past four years - no matter who was the QB. The OL appears to be coming around. They mix up the play book with screens and draws. And I'd be confident with any one of the three QBs being projected to start the season.
Russell has already hurt himself. Because all three of the QBs looked effective, it will be that much harder for Russell to find any playing time this year. His value to the Raiders has thus fallen, and Al should start thinking about taking money off the table. I don't blame Russell for this. He seems to have found himself between a rock and a hard place.
With the log jam at RB, and there is a log jam, I'd expect to see Bush placed on injured reserve. Don't be surprised if his current injury tends to linger, and he's eventually placed on IR.
We have two great TEs in Miller and Madsen. Williams impressed me. We still have a use for Whitted, as someone to stretch the D, but he's not a starter. But he blocks, does all the little things, and works his butt off. Did anyone notice his block on one of the sweeps in the late 2nd Q?
This is the best sideline leadership I've seen since Gruden left.
Now... Let's see if this is a trend or an abberation. Heeeere, 9ers.
Oh...
And welcome back, Mr. Porter.
My niner fan friend always wants to watch the battle of the bay together. I will gladly call him this week. He doesn't know what is coming his way.
Re: Russell
I guess it's pretty much a given that he'll miss the entire camp. He'd be so far behind that it would only slow down the rest of the QBs at this point.
Psycho
Wow...Nice to see I was not just imagineing what I saw as positives....I came in early Saturday night and spoke up about the team and it's really nice to see that all of you see it the same way....
I really think we have alot to look forward to this season....and with such a weak schedual a "PlayOff" appearence is a real posibility....woudn't that be great....and it would shut up those stupid "Mediot"s....like that "BeAutch".....
PantyRaider....JustWaiten!!!!
BR-
I think the logjam is at FB, where we have three good ones and all won't make the final cut. I think we're thin at tailback--Jordan is hurt, although it may not be too bad; Rhodes is out til week six; Bush is not on the active roster; Fargas is healthy and there's Adimchinobe aka "Joe". At least one from that's group's gonna go and it may be as you said by putting Bush on IR [but if he's healthy, he may be the best of the bunch and Fargas or Jordan may get the gate]
lk, good points but Fargas looks like he really improved. He's no longer a pure N/S runner.
I want to see what Jordan has in store for us, but it better be good, otherwise I'd pick him to go.
Read Miss Nancy's article. So the only difference over last year is that the players come to the line sooner. Well... we all know that Nancy isn't really required to WATCH the team she covers. She just calls SI, gets their take, and publishes.
And SI probably relies on Nancy for their info. It's a never ending circle of hate and lies. See, I can make up stuff and put it on the net too, Nancy!
Psycho
Agree Fargas played well last year. It'll be interesting to see how the backfield shakes out
Another thing of note regarding Saturday's game. The Raiders mounted two long touch down drives (one for 12 plays and 81 yards, and one for 14 plays and 67 yards) under two different QBs. I think, in regards to long touchdown drives involving 10 or more plays, that is ONE short of the Raiders ENTIRE pre season AND season total last year.
Nancy, I had no idea just getting to the line quicker could make that much difference.
Bama7
I guess I gotta be the devil on the other shoulder here. Heartland would do it if Jruss had played last week... so here goes:
It's the freaking Cardinals guys. In our own backyard to boot. They couldn't even beat us last year when we were led by Shell and the hapless Walsh. So, let's temper the playoff talk a week or so.
Hopefully the good signs will continue during next week's game.
It looks like Culpepper had two bombs dropped in the game. That would have raised his yards per catch way past the other guys. Were the drops potential TD's? If so, he outplayed the other two QB's albeit against the back-ups.
As for Walter, looks like he had an okay game, but needs to do more before people start talking about McCown being the odd man out now.
remember, in practice agaisnt a good D (our own) he's done nothing but throw INT's in the face of relentless pressure. Walter doesn't have problems in situations like the Cardinal game. His problems are reading agressive defenses and a lack of mobility.
The Seahawk game will be our biggest pre-season test... hostile environment, and the best team we'll play in pre-season.
"PlayOffTalk" will never quit as long as we are still in the running....that is to say NOT yet iliminated by the #'s.....and sense we already have a "PlayOff" caliber "D" it is not totally foolish to imagine that we could get there if we have the #15 "O"....Which got "KC" there last year with the #18 "O"....the "Donko"s were at #15....and the "Dolts" were at #10 I think....and this year we have a very weak schedual....so if you don't want to hear it....Don't read it.....
It's been reported that in practice the "OL" is not allowed to block in a way which may cause injury to our own players....therefore if the preasure is getting thru in practice and making it difficult for the "QB"s than that should be expected....but at "GameSpeed" it was not such a problem....meanning that the "QB" was able to perform much better than in Practice...that should be a good thing....it forces the "QB" to be under extreem preasure in practice and ready to deal with it if it comes at "GameSpeed"....which it may at some point....
So if we see a "QB" (McCown) NOT be able to perform at game speed when he does not have as much preasure as in practice it is NOT too early to start calling for his termination from the team....
Now go back and review the games against "AZ" in preseason and regular season and than speak as to whether we should put faith in what we saw Saturday night....I believe you will see a tremdous difference in how the "O" performed in those games even if we did win it...
PantyRaider....JustSupportin!!!!
Corections to last post....
Total "O" for "06"
#6..."Dolt"s
#16.."Squaw"s
#21.."Donko"s
#32..Raiders
Total Scoreing "O"
#1..."Dolt"s
#15.."Sqaw"s
#17.."Dolt"s
#32..Raiders
TurnOver rating
#3..."Dolt"s +13
#10.."Squaw"s +4
#18.."Donko"s -0
#32..Raiders -32
So a 50% improvement in the "O" could result in a total turnaround in our own divission....
PantyRaider....#'sLie!!!!!
FollowUp....Preseason "07" as if it matters...
Total "O"
#2...."Dolt"s
#19...Raiders
#28..."Squaw"s
#30..."Donko"s
PantyRaider....#'sLying!!!!
"07" PreSeason Humor....
The Raiders and Lions are tied at #2 for Total Scoreing...
#15...."Dolt"s
#23...."Squaw"s
#?....."DonKo"s....They are not showing any stats so maybe they have not played yet????? They are listed at #30....
PantyRaider....Rediculas!!!!
Stats to look at....as you know we play the "Winners" next so why not look at what they did this week....and it was against the "Donko"s so we also get to look at them...."DownHillBaby"....
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/teamstats/
NFL_20070813_DEN@SF
If this is any indication of what the team will look like than bring on week #2...."QB" PatricRamsy was 4/10 45yds 1TD-n-1Int....Glad we don't have him....."Jay da Fake" was 1/2 after 2 posetions...."SadFran" thru for 242yds and ran for 144yds against their "D"....while the "Donko"s only had 88yds passing but 182yds running....
How do the Raiders stack up against their team.....real well I think.....we held "AZ" to 101yds rushing but gained 120yds against them....that's a double improvement over last year for the Raiders.....running and stoping the run...let's hope it contines...
The "Squaw"s were nothing to look at....maybe they will improve...Ha! Ha!.....it's funny to look at their stats against the "Brownies"....
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/teamstats/
NFL_20070811_KC@CLE
As for the "Dolt"s they were very even against the "SeaChicken"s but lost the game....the interesting thing here is their "D" could not stop Seattle.....362yds.....and Seattle did not stop them....377yds....
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/teamstats/
NFL_20070812_SEA@SD
PantyRaider....Meaningless???????
It was preseason game, against a poor team. But....it was good to see the Raiders beat a team run by a coach who turned them down.
Whisenhunt.
More curious about the head to head this weekend the Niners
Reality check time. We did have a good game. Like Blanda said, we had 2 long scoring drives, where we blocked well, and moved the ball well. Both drives put together with more than 10 plays. They ate time off the clock. That is excellent.
Our O-Tackles are going to be an achilles heel if they don't improve quickly though. I don't know if it was rust with Cornell Green, or what, but Mario Henderson seemed to play better. And Sims, well, he is still Barry Sims.
We will see how they do against the 9ers DE's this weekend. Though they haven't been great, the 9ers' defense was pretty strong against the Doncos yesterday. They had some really good pressure. That will be our first test of the O-line for sure.
Panty, even though we are tied for 3rd with Detroit for most points, our offense in one preseason game is ranked #21 overall, and only averaging 4 yard per play. Not too exciting numbers.
We did have a lot dropped passes. Not much on the running game, exception of "Joe". We gave up too much yardage defensively on the run (103 yards to be exact). We did not get a lot of pressure from our D-line (we will see how we do once Burgess is in there).
So there is a lot of room for improvement. I don't think we will come away with a win if we play this way against SF this weekend.
There is only one way to go from here, and that is up. We did look better offensively than the last few years. I wish Kiffin the best, and hope he's back on the field soon. Namdi said yesterday (it's great too), "I think he's a little sick, or maybe he got happy with his first win and he didn’t want to show up. I don’t know." Hilarious!
Maybe we can snag Gerard Walker (DT, 7 year vet) from the Doncos.
So I log on this morning and see the headline "Kiffin Hospitalized".
Holly crap, my heart sunk. I had visions of our 'only hope' lying on his death bed before he even got us rolling. It was Leon Bender all over again, except he's our freakin' head coach.
According to Jerry McDonald practice seems quiet and with less energy. I would immagine it looks like an Art Shell practice, except shorter, and Porter is not sleeping on the bench. Kif seems fine though, just a high fever. If it were serious then Sapp would not be break dancing before the snap.
http://www.ibabuzz.com/raidersblog/
2007/08/13/training-camp-day-18
Psycho
RaiderNate75:
Just for clarification some of the stats I posted were just my strange sense of humor....It was comented that we should not speak about "PlayOffs" yet so I was just posting suporting evidance that we were bound for the "PostSeason"....
When I posted it we were listed as #19 Overal "O"....and I was saying we have already improved from #32 to #19 in one week...and we held the run below 200yds which we had problems with that last season....and we ran the ball for more than 120 yds which is a definate improvement too....so ending the season at #15 or above was inevitable....but again that is for "Humor" only...
The only thing I was more serious about is the evidance of problems that the "Donko"s and "Squaw"s are having...."D"s that can't stop anybody and "O"s that can't through the ball....and these "O"s are not new like the Raiders "O"....they are fimilar and should be producing....but they ain't....
PantyRaider....JokeingAround!!!
Camp update from today - Psycho
http://www.ibabuzz.com/
raidersblog/2007/08/14/
training-camp-day-19-am
More talk to back up from Jordan:
"There's a lot of people questioning whether I'm the guy for the job. And of course at some point pride's going to get in the way, and at some point you're going to want want to make a statement. But it's not something I talk about. Right now the AFC West, I'm clearly the back that's not even in this hemisphere," Jordan said. "When you look at Travis Henry, Larry Johnson and LaDainian, I'm not even mentioned on the same page as those guys. That's something that I would like to change. I have to do my part, the offensive line has to do their part, us as a team, we have to do our part."
The good news is he looked good in practice. So did "Joe".
Psycho
That's the problem with Jordan, he talks too much. He needs to learn to shut up and let his play speak for itself. So far, talk is all he has to offer.
Jordan is replaceable....
So it's good that he know's he is not the man he was suppose to be....so now how about giving back some of that cash so we can sign someone else if ya really want to be on this team....that's what would talk loud to me....after all Culpepper was willing to sign for a much lower wage to be able to play and prove himself again....but Jordan has never proved himself once yet....at least not consistant enough to be counted....
My vote goes to "Eche" for much less money and more heart....and less mouth....
PantyRaider....Echemanduuuuuuu!!!
"Dancin' With The Stars" Jordan's act (and mouth) is getting very old.
I'm very much looking forward to 2008 when we will feature Bush, Rhodes, and Joe.
In the meantime it is nice knowing that Kiffin is in charge and he seems more than apt to go with the RB that is producing. By mid season when Rhodes is back and hopefully Bush is in the rotation, Jordan will be an afterthought.
I guess I don't see any difference between Jordan and Porter in respect to production and running their mouths.
HeartlandRaiderFan:
I agree 100% as far as quality as people is concerned but at least Portster gives it 100% on the field and plays agressive....consistantly....until Jordan shows that quality I personally won't support him at all....
We have had low quality players in the past who were able to dominate at their positions and I loved those guys....dispite their personal lives....it's what you do on the field that matters most to me....
PantyRaider....JustProduceBaby!!!!
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