Sign Now—or Sayonara
JaMarcus Russell, it’s time to report to duty. The jig is up. Your bluff has been called. Sign now—or sayonara. My patience is exhausted.
I’ve heard all of the arguments from both sides. I’ve sifted through the wild rumors and speculation. I don’t claim to know every detail about the negotiations, but at least I don’t cloak my ignorance by consulting “unnamed (ie: uninformed) sources” and fabricating news, as we’ve seen in more than a few media outlets.
The most sensible report I’ve read lately comes from the Los Angeles Times:
“The negotiations between the Raiders and No. 1 pick JaMarcus Russell have been sporadic, with the sticking point being how much unrecoverable bonus money the Raiders are willing to commit to the former
I’ve been surprised at how relatively docile the Raider Nation has been regarding this situation, myself included. Only now am I starting to foam at the mouth. It must have something to do with the calming effect of Daunte Culpepper’s arrival last month. Otherwise, I’d probably be needing a rabies shot right about now.
I’m serious about this: Sign now or good riddance.
Some will point out that I was a pre-draft agitator promoting our selection of Russell. Some will point out that I’ve been bleating for years now about our need to groom a franchise quarterback.
Fair enough. But I stand by those takes. I still think we need to groom a franchise quarterback, and I still think Russell is—or was—the right man for the job, if not for him staging such a prolonged holdout, which none of us could have foreseen.
I’m disgusted that it’s come to this. How is it that the Chargers and Broncos have managed to groom their young franchise quarterbacks while fielding playoff-caliber teams? Meanwhile, we were riding Aaron Brooks to our fourth-straight losing season and mistaking Andrew Walter for Matt Leinart.
We are very lucky that the football gods took pity on us and dispatched Daunte Culpepper to
On that note, if Russell doesn’t sign between now and the start of the season, I think the Raiders should shut down the negotiations, save a ton of money, and redistribute the savings to solid free agents, future draft picks and gameday treats for fans.
Playing for the Oakland Raiders, in front of the Raider Nation, is an honor, one that will make JaMarcus Russell a very wealthy young man (and the highest-paid pick ever) if he takes our deal.
If that’s not enough for him, that’s enough for me to say stay out of our house. I’ve got a team to root for, and you’re not on it.
posted by Raider Take at 3:52 PM
184 Comments:
Right here with ya RT.
From every reasonable account I've read, what Davis has offered is perfectly in line with what Russell should expect, but his agents (or Russell) wants more. The trouble is that Mr. Davis is not in the habit of giving money away. He expects to be reasonably compensated. Russell expects the money, but the compensation... yeah, well... maybe.
If Mr. Russell watches his first Raider game at home on television, I will lose any doubt that he is more interested in an obscene check than in playing NFL football. I was one of Russell's biggest supporters, but after September 9th I'll no longer remember his name.
Couldn't agree with you more, RT. I was happy we drafted him—a quick look on YouTube at his LSU highlights shows his extreme physical talents, and he seemed to have a good head on his shoulders as well.
One thing most people forget to mention (except for the Examiner's Glenn Dickey, of all people!) is that Al has the upper hand in all of this. Russell can't afford to go back into the draft next year if we fail to sign him. Going back into the draft after a year out of football, and with the baggage of being the only first round pick in the last 10+ years not to sign would be devastating. He could easily be the second or possibly third QB taken next year (after Brian Brohm and possibly either John David Booty or Colt Brennan) could push him out of the top 10-15 and out of the eight-figure signing bonus range. See Aaron Rodgers or Brady Quinn for how far the second QB picked can fall and lose money. Al completely has the upper hand in these negotiations—I think Russell's agents are just trying to save face at this point.
He'll be in a Raiders uniform soon enough, and we'll see what he can do... in 2008.
Now, now Raider Take. Don’t get yourself in a bunch. You’re leaving out these little quotes from Bernice Russell, JaMarcus’ grandmother:
“"It's horrible." "I want it to be over. I've watched my grandson go through all of this, and I don't know why he has to."
“Bernice Russell, who calls the 6-foot-6, 255-pound JaMarcus her "giant of a baby," said her grandson is "very encouraged" that a deal will be done soon.”
I found these quotes in an article by Steve Corkran interesting as well:
”Kiffin said he is confident that everyone has a firm perspective on the delicate situation and that it won't be a problem once Russell shows up. "I know that players, even better than coaches, understand the professional side of it," Kiffin said. "I do not think there will be resentment at all, especially from the players...”
Yeah, just from the fans! My patience is exhausted too!
RT:
Our answer that explains all of this might be here. Look at Profootball talk for the headline "BRATTON BOLTING FOR DEBARTOLO'S SHOP".
It looks like Bratton is leaving the agency and going to work for Eddie D. If JRuss signs any part of a deal they negotiated, Metz and company reap the reward and not Bratton (JRuss's good bud). I wouldn't be surprised to see Bratton make the move within the next few days, then see JRuss fire his current crop, wait five days, and let Bratton ice the deal.
It is just possible that there are internal politics going on with Metz and company that is preventing this deal.
In the mean time, sorry to monopolize your reply board. Hmmm, there seems to be an echo out here.
BlandaRocked:
I for one do not get tried of your intelegent input so keep the info comming....
I will re-state what I said in the last post....it applies to this new posting.....
"JRus"....him and his agents start loosing money if he fails to sign before the game....week by week he will lose his game check for that game and never get it back....so now let me see....on a $60,000,000/6 year deal....thats about $10,000,000/year devide by 16 games and that would be about....$625,000/game....is he for real....is he really going to kisssssss that money goodby.....with never an opertunity to get it back.....
Now that has got to be the "Dumbist" thing I have ever seen....and if he is really that stupid we probibly don't need him anyway....he will just "F&%K" up again and again as time goes along.....And I was one of his bigist supporters enery sense that championship game last year....
Just goes to show peformance in one big game does not tell ya much about what's in a players head....just like Vick....you can take the player out of the "Getto" but can't always remove the "Getto" from the player....and I can speak from experiance....I come from "PoorBoy" and watched my friends stay there and fall down the sewer like the rest of their families and friends....Sad Sad Sad.....
Everything is looking up for the Raiders this season but as usual there always has to be that one "Negative" that gets in the way....
BlandaRocked....it appears that CoachKiff heard us talking....look what he said about planning ahead for the "Donko"s....
"Coach Kiffin: That’s been something I have been doing during preseason myself. I have focused more on watching Denver and Detroit’s pre-season games and our staff has had some time here and there to do it in the off-season. Our guys have already made the turn today, finished with the films from last night and already made the turn to Detroit"
PantyRaider....Up-Up-&-Away!!!!
Does this sound like CoachKiff is saying he has had alot of input into what is taking place with the Raiders.....like "Draft" picks and "FreeAgent" signings....like maybe he has alot of control....Oh! No!....would that mean we have to stop trying to blame MrDavis if something goes bad....
"Coach Kiffin: I wouldn’t say surprises really. I think that going back, I am really excited about the way we approached free agency and the draft and all the players we brought in to create competition. I don’t know for a fact, but if you research the roster moves we made since I got here, there isn’t another team close to making the same amount of moves that we made and I believe that has paid off for us, [with] people feeling the pressure and the competition and knowing that jobs weren’t safe around here and I feel like that has made us better."
He speaks very positive and I like it....He also says "Justin Griffith will be our starting fullback".....
PantyRaider....Acountability!!!!
"Donko"s.....here is a judgement by the fans on their season so far....kinda sums it up....what a "JOKE"....
How should the Broncos' preseason be rated?
(1) A 2.2 % (21)
(2) B 6.2 % (58)
(3) C 43.4 % (409)
(4) D 35.0 % (330)
(5) F 5.5 % (52)
(6) Incomplete 7.7 % (73)
But now I question....do they really have the "943" fans that posted an opinion.....Oh! now I understand....that means one fan voted 409 times for a "C"....and another fan voted 330 times for a "D".....Wow! So much support....and all that coming from a site named the "OrangeMane"....now how "Dorky" is that....and another named the "FanNation-Donko"s....still trying to steal our thunder....
"Donko"s don't seem to be very excited about their hopes this season....but why should they....
PantyRaider...."Hopeless-n-DonkeyKong"!!!!
The JaGrammy also said that Russell is staying in shape by practicing with a local high school team. How the mighty have fallen.
Can you imagine a 6'5", 265 pound QB practicing with high school kids?
This poor kid is getting some real bad advice from some real greedy people. If he doesn't sign this will end up being one of the greatest tragedies in the history of professional sports as far as an athelete being mis-handled by his management. The NFL should really intervene here. Enough is enough.
"j-rust" is the only intelligent "faida" around, by not signing with a perpetual LOSER he is raising his value and showing his smarts! He might not make the big bucks right now....but he'll be raking it in next season with a team that realistically has a shot at post season play. Hang in there "j-rust" you'll be the guy laughing last, so much for the "genius" of big al (MR.) davis, ha ha ha ha ha what a MORON, the savior of all mankind, the true originator of the NFL, he is without peer in the anals of history (spelled like panty and for effect as well) you LOSERS will have more reasons to explain your bottom dweller position in Jan. "08" 0-16 another faida first, you fanatics always say thatr the faidas do everything first before anyone else. Keep defending the "nation" "welxcome to our house" babies. Ha HA HA HA HA HA HA HA .
Russell is a football player not an agent. I'm sure if you had significant money at risk you would hire a tax specialist and/or a money manager to handle your finaces. Let's assume that's the case hear. What's debatable is wether or not the people he's intrusted with contract negotiations are competent.
At sometime soon he'll have to make a decision in regard to his choice of counsel if a deal isn't signed. If he does sign soon, both he and the Raiders will benefit. He'll be able to learn under the wing of a pro-bowler and not be forced into service pre-maturely. He won't be taking any snaps of signifigance this year at any rate and that's a good thing. By the time he's handed the offensive reins his unit will be that more potent. Breathe easy, with Russell the greatness of the Raiders does indeed lie in it's future.
Psycho here, sorry for being long-winded.
With my hindsight being just as perfect as the next fan I'm reminded of a comment I heard from Russell weeks before he was drafted. I was driving home this afternoon thinking about this. I don't remember exactly what he said but I got the distinct feeling that he might be a little bit too into money.
I think it was the interview when he talked about his "old neighborhood name; J-Rock", and he was asked a question about possibly becoming the #1 pick and the $30+ mil (maybe a different interview). It was one of those things where a guy like P.Manning or Troy A. or Rich G. would have responded in a manner which somehow flipped the question into "playing football" or "working hard", you know the drill. Russell responded quickly, without hesitation, in sort of a 'quick to aknowledge the money' kind of way that I can't quite put words to, but I didn't like.
I remember at the time being so enamored with the guy that I gave him the benefiet of the doubt and completely blew it off as being inexperienced in dealing with the media or whatever. But this holdout has me wondering if money is higher on his priority list than playing for the Raiders. And going by the Bill Parcells philosophy, which I totally agree with, football better be in his top 3, with only "God" or "Family" possibly being ahead of "Football" or else I'm going to be pissed.
I don't care what his grandma says. Even if I were a (hypathetical:)) backstabbing, money hungry bastard and I told my grandma what she wanted to hear I think she'd back me up. I'm not saying this is the case, only that we don't know if its a publicity stunt or if it's sincere.
My patience is being tried, and I'm just about out. RT is right about Culpepper "helping" at this point, among other things. I honestly think I've been in a state of denial. I'm holding out hope that he really is a good guy caught up in something awful, and his heart is really in playing football mare than driving fast cars and banging hot chicks, flossing in the old neighborhood. But the longer this drags on I lose faith in that notion.
I live around the corner from DeLawrence Grant's mother living in his former home in Compton. He was cut for being a dumb ass and not dedicating himself, one of Shell's moves that hit close to home but I totally agreed with. He was always hanging out at clubs in L.A. instead of working out, hanging out with knuckleheads out here, just enjoying his money. I don't want to watch Russell end up the same way or something similar to what I watched DeLawrence go through. I have no doubt that Russell is a good guy but here is the thing, so is DeLawrence, not to mention one hell of an athlete. The more time that goes by the more this image comes into my head; Russell driving around in an H3 Hummer on 28"s instead of studying film. This bothers me.
If it's an agent issue and a change needs to be made, my patience will be extended to a reasonable 5 day + nogotiation time, even though it's long over due. If not then it may be time to start taking $ off the table and/or shop his rights to salvage what we can, if possible and if it makes sense monotarily. As far as I can tell Davis is being fair, he won't budge very far from his stance, and the Russell camp is a collective cestpool of greed and incompetence. I know I spelled half those words wrong.
Sh*t, how did this happen. Damn man, you'll be rich no matter what happens if you just sign the damn paper.
Psycho
I say give the 31 million $$$$$$ to grandma Bernice, and let her play Qb.
At least it sounds as if she gives a damn.
JRu$$, it's not to late to get your truck driving permit.
You may deliver a sofa to my home some day.....or....you can stop being a fool, sign the contract for 31 million, and play pro football for a living.
Gee, is it so hard to decide ??
I have been keeping a low profile on the Russell holdout awaiting more information. My initial inclinations were very much in line with everyone else's on this board which in essence is that the Raiders offered a generous fair market contract and Russell is simply being greedy.
However, after reading the below line from the LA Times, I have come to another conclusion that is on the other side of the RT crew's fence.
"The haggling is over the so-called skill-and-injury clause that protects guaranteed money under any scenario that leads to a player's release, such as injury, death, or simply poor performance."
Read that over carefully and take into account that every 1st round pick the last 15 years has had the "skill & injury clause" inserted in their contract. Sorry folks but this has nothing to do with money, the amount of the bonus, or option bonuses.
Bottom Line: If the Raiders are not offering this standard "skill & injury clause" I just can't blame Russell. Under a contract without the "skill & injury clause" the Raiders could cut Russell at any time and he would not be able earn his "guaranteed" money. Put in more simple terms, Russell wouldn't be guaranteed anything. I know this might sound implausible but think of the following scenario for a contract:
$31M in bonuses with most of it paid out in year 3 or year 4. Russell cut after year 2. The Raiders test drive him out & discard him.
If anyone on this board can make a reasonable argument for why the Raiders would not include a basic, standard "skill & injury clause" then I'm all ears.
As I said on a previous post a few weeks ago, a good contract is where both parties feel protected. The Raiders need to protect themselves if Russell has trouble with the law, weight clauses, reporting to camp on time, and general misconduct. Russell needs to protect himself in terms of getting a fair market guaranteed bonus. Without the "skill & injury clause" how is his "guaranteed" bonus guaranteed if he can just be cut?
Correction: I meant every #1 pick has had the "Skill & Injury clause not every 1st round pick.
Psycho:
I also remember the interview and it has also begun to stick in my mind....I believe he said..."Alot of Money" when asked what he wanted....I took the comment as a "Joke" from a young kid but now I guess he was telling the truth....so "ThankYou for the honesty....but NO-Thanks if that's really who you are"....
CalicoJack:
That was discussed before but it was said that he would be protechted against injury and death but the Raiders were not willing to extend that protection to conduct such as not showing up or leagle problems and they would not include the "Skill" part....
If he plays like shit he will not show his skill and not be garenteed....he still has a contract so if he is cut the Raiders would still be resposible to pay part or all of the term of the contract....but according to the "Skill" clause he could cop an attitude like "NoMoss" or Portster and even though he is in camp he does not perform....show his "Skill" for the bennifit of the team and there would be nothing the Raiders could do about it....also hold-outs would not be tolerated without that caluse....
That is what was reported in the past....so if what is being reported now is that much different than who or what do we believe....
TokaiRaider:
Glad to see you back....I have been in contact with "YahooSports" and will purchase the package when I get back to Thailand Oct.3rd....
It's cost is $240 for the SeasonPass and every game but after the season starts it goes to $280.....so I will end up paying the $280 price for the remainding 12 games because I am not there yet....the other way is $25/week or $200 for just the one game a week....I believe it only give you until Wendsday night to watch a weekly game but with the "SeasonPass" you can down-load past games at any time from the archives.....and I can save them to disc for future viewing....
I am not sure if it's posible to send the games via e-mail but if it is I will send them to you if you are unable to see the games in Japan....better late than never....
PantyRaider....JustPirateBaby!!!
Calico
I don't claim to be anywhere near an expert on 'standard' contract practices or anything. But it sounds to me like Davis doesn't want to dish out millions of dollars in 'dead' money if Russell suddenly decides to hang/drown dogs and go to prison. Or maybe he decides to spend his $60+ mil on cocaine. Or maybe he just plain sucks.
It would be bad enough to waste a once in a life time #1 pick, much less paying for it up to a decade afterwards in having less talent on the field. At almost 80 years old it's worth mentioning that the outcome of this will affect Davis for much of the rest of his life, so maybe he's being extra cautious (understandbly?) in his almost-desperate, intense goal of being on the top just one more time. Another Davis fault perhaps? Just Al going against the grain and doing too much when he should 'fall in line' and march with the rest of the sheep? Maybe, but I suppose I'd probably do the same if I understand the basics of the situation.
I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, or even disagree with you necessarily. It very well could be the case that the Russell camp has a valid, and big concern. I'm just throwing it out there.
On a side note, it's ironic that the "Al haters" accuse the "Al lovers" of falling in line and being sheep, just eating whatever turd sandwiches are put in front of them. And probably the single most mezmorizing thing about Al that draws people to him is his willingness to refuse the turd sandwiches that other people try to talk him into eating.
Psycho
Panty
Thank you for "almost" remembering that Russell comment about money! I knew I was not crazy, errr, Psycho. I just confused myself...
Psycho
Psycho:
I think it was his very first comments when he signed up for the draft....we could probibly find it again....
"I cordially invite you to our house" to watch the faidas get their asses handed to themselves yet again in front of a half empty stadium with the likes of "roberta galleria" opening gaping holes for the defensive linemen to get at "culpumper" or "mclown" whoever....If the faidas keep Jeremy Newberry they might have one spot in the o-line that will not be an open door to the qb! The Detroit Lions are licking their chops in anticipation of a W on opening day. "welcome to our house" means listen to the game on the faidio again.....0-16 the faidas RULE!!!!!! Just squirm baby, keep defending the "nation" faida fanatics.
You know I gotta laugh people with this Raider-hater jumpin on this blog site and "letting us have it". What a f--in joke. For years and years we kicked the Chiefs and especially the Broncos around like the little bitches they are. Now for the few years they have owned us but everyone knows it's just a blip on the radar screen that will soon disappear. I'm from New York and we have the same thing with the Yankees and the Red Sox. The sox fans are consumed with hating the Yankees and wearing their cute Yankee-sucks tee shirts and whatever else. Yankee fans could give two craps about the Sox because they know they are still the premeire organization and despite 2004 and some other success that Boston has had you know what's gonna happen in the long run. (By the way-I'm NOT a Yankee fan). I just think these donkey fans or chief fans or whatever they are are incredibly pathetic. Can you see any of us wasting our time on their sites?
PS- Last Chief Super Bowl appearance - 1970
Donkeys- Sorry boyz- Elways retired. It's way over.Get a life.
Did you really think JMarc wouls start this year? At first I did but when we sign DCulp the plan for this year was clear - camp competition for the QB positition aside -
Relax, JMarc will sign, he will be great (not this year) , and we will love him...
Those of you that hack at Davis -Don't... he is doing the right thing...
I think that once Russell got a taste of the Raider OTAs, he found out that maybe he wasn't smart enough to grasp the pro system, and worse, startled at the speed of violence involved in the big leagues.
Let's not forget Russell was a junior coming out of college with 35 starts on a team with a dominant defense, a youtube diary of receivers making circus catches, all the while in a streetfight to gain the starting job each season.
in his 1st 2 yrs he passed for a qb rating of 86.6 and rushed 87 times for minus 63 yards. It was only in his 3rd season that he showed any consistency as a "playmaker".
That said, I wanted the raiders to draft him just cause I didn't want another team to pick him up. It never crossed my mind until recently that he might be simply afraid.
And if you've played football, you know, playing scared, will get you f'd up.
Don't want to be a Raider, Jamarcus? Cool. We'll move on without ya'. Say hi to granny. Lawdy, yes.
Resident Evil
Repeating what many of you have been saying, both sides need to assume risk and neither should be totally freed from risk by contract terms.
Bottom line: Raiders assume risk of skill and injury (to the extent dictated by the market). Raiders scouted Russell and picked him #1; thus, his skill (or lack thereof) becomes their risk, IMHO.
Football-related injury is also predominantly a Raiders’ risk. Raiders need to be responsible to field an O-line that protects the QB, period.
Conversely, non-football-related injury is Russell’s risk. It should be a breach of contract to participate in high-risk off-season activities, such as pick-up games (football, basketball, whatever).
Russell’s primary risks are ones he alone controls. For example, no dog fighting, no killing or maiming protected animals or people, no drunk-driving, no using illegal substances (NFL-restricted or other), etc. Essentially, Russell risks revolve around him being a responsible person.
Ok, it’s pretty simplistic and doesn’t cover nearly everything that’s being considered, but it seems common sense. The real terms need to be market-driven by other contracts for #1 draft picks as well as recent veteran QB contracts.... because not only is Al about to make Russell the highest paid rookie ever, he will also be one of the highest paid QB’s in the NFL which, again IMHO, doesn’t make a lot of (common) sense for an unproven rookie.
Hell Id be scared to QB after the way the line played last year,Id be worried Id end up like Phil Simms son with a crushed spleen or whatever it was that happened to him.
Seriously though I doubt it's that. Depending on which news source you believe, its the skill & injury thing or the option bonus thing, either way its about just how guaranteed the so called guaranteed money is.
As far as the troll, Id bet money it's this one lowlife Chargers fan that trolls several Raider sites...what a way to spend your life.
Bama7
As usual NY Raider and Calico Jack come off objective in their takes. Psycho and Panty are all about , Al and their undying love for him. Blanda, slightly Al with a touch of reason.
And The "Faida" raida hater, well he has no friends to play with so he hangs out on our site.
To Al's yes-men: Just because some of us true Raider fans are questioning Al's side of the contract debacle doesn't make us haters. As NY Raider and Calico pointed out, there just may be something quite unusual with Al's skill clause in the contract. It may indeed involve how Russell performs, and while it might be prudent, it has never been forced on other high draft picks. Again, if it were, we would have already taken Mr Gallery back to the returns dept. And he was a #2!
Hopefully Jruss will sign soon, he really has no choice unless the law firm representing him is covering him financially until next year's draft. And don't think it's not possible... the relationship bewteen Al and the lawyers might be an ego thing between the two at this point. The only losers are Jruss and Raider fans. If you don't think Jruss has potential to be as good as Manning & Young then the whole contact thing is probably not bothering you that badly... you can take the situation or leave it. If you're like me, and you watched him play, then you know he's special and had he been in camp from day one I'd bet he'd be neck and neck with thr front runner to be our starter. Why not? McCown's is in the mix for crying out loud.
Russell had potential to be our Elway. Problem now is his development has been damaged.
Bama7
One last comment... I like Culpepper a lot but my best friend, who is from Iowa and a huge Viking fan said that as a viking fan he was extremely glad Culpepper was gone. He said that Culpepper will break your heart. A bunch of good plays BUT FUMBLES CONSTANTLY. He said we'd all destroy our television sets before it was all over.
Even Chris Carter wrote a piece a while back about Duante's fumbling and how it affected their team. Blamed it on his small hands.
I hope Culpepper can somewhow change what he's been plagued with his whole career. Until then I'm pulling for him but not nearly as comfortable with our QB situation as RT seems to be.
I wouldn't call myself "comfortable" with the QB situation, but I can sure sleep a lot better knowing that we're not going into the season with a depth chart of McCown, Walter and Booty.
Let's look at the new math proposed by some people...One thing I hear from them is, "Hey, no big deal, Russell wasn't going to play this year, anyway..."
Really? Matt Leinart unseated Kurt Warner last year, Vince Young unseated Kerry Collins and Jay Cutler unseated Jake Plummer...Yet JaMarcus Russell was going to hold McCown and Walter's clipboards for the duration of 2007?
But let's assume the new math is correct, and that it's fine if Russell misses our entire camp, the entire preseason and, now, part of the regular season before signing...because he wasn't going to play as a rookie, anyway.
Then what? How is this guy going to get the necessary practice attention when we've got to keep Culpepper and McCown razor sharp for regular season games against the Broncos, etc.? How is he going to get acclimated to the speed and nuances of the NFL while throwing to Carlos Francis who's being defended by Eric Frampton over there in the corner?
So he walks into camp next year, nearly as green as he was at the start of camp this year...Well, according to the new math, he won't play in 2008, either, because he wasn't going to play as a "rookie" this year, which is essentially what he will be next year if this keeps up much longer.
Good points RT. Even if he signs in 2007, much of his Raider experience will be academic, not practical experience going into 2008.
Panty and others bring up a good point too; at what point do the Raiders get to pro rate monies off his projected 2007 salary? He’s missed 33 practices, numerous meetings and four pre-season games, and will soon be missing actual games which Panty pro rates at about $625,000 per. Wait! Did I just type that? $625,000 per game? Yes, JaMarcus, there is a Santa Clause and his real name is Al Davis. The clock is ticking! It’s time to pro rate!
new england, sf? You are more confused than I thought. Where's dallas, gb, pitts, and every other band wagon you can jump?
Change your screen name to annoyingymous you jack ass.
Faida boy, selectively erasing your comments is akin to changing my baby's diapers.
When infants make a mess, it's up to the adults to clean it up.
Bama7:
Once a "HateTripper" always a "HateTripper"....must really be sad where you live....so save your silly little "PosterReviews" and "Generalities" that don't apply to squat....if you look back I was not singling you out personally by name....but as a groupe of posters on a "HateTrip"....but there is a very simple solution....I will just quit reading your "HateMail" Crap...........TheEnd!
On a more peaceful note:
As I underastood it no player gets a "GameCheck" if he does not play and his sallery is devided 16 times....but that could be wrong....as with Portster when he was inactive for a game last year did he still recieve a "GameCheck" or just his "BaseSallery"....while suspended he did not recieve any pay for sure but I don't know about the rest of the year....
I know "JRus" does not recieve any money while not signed but I don't know how everything will apply if he signs late after the season starts....but maybe that is what MrDavis was speaking about when it was said he would at some point take money off the table....one "GameCheck" at a time....
PantyRaider....LostPayDay!!!!
PantyRaider & Pyscho: Don't confuse personal misconduct with the basic "Skill & Injury Clause".
What I'm suggesting is that if Russell is a good citizen & dedicated professional football player he should be guaranteed his bonus money. Injury, death, or poor performance should not be a factor in the guaranteed bonus. This has nothing to do with dog fighting, substance abuse, trouble with the law, etc.
Off another site-
-- Raiders Closing on Russell? --
Sat Sep 1, 2007 --from FFMastermind.com
ESPN's John Clayton (best of the worst,IMO) reports Oakland Raiders No. 1 overall draft pick QB JaMarcus Russell should be signed by Friday.
Also, Mort (dildo, not my opinion but fact) was on espn radio last night saying that he's heard from numerous "sources" that the negotiations are down to just some "wording" in the contract. This came up when he was talking about possible interest by other teams in Walter.
You know how Al likes to upstage the league. This would be typical in terms of timing....
memdf:
Hope your right Bro....that would be great and we could put all this "Crap" behind us and just look forward to the season....without all the "ChildishBashing" that feeds off of this contract dispute....The "Mediot"s and the "HateTrippre"s will just have to look for something else to feed on.....
PantyRaider....Commitment-to-Excriment is Throwing "Crap"!!!!!
Raiders release Crockett
http://raiders.scout.com/2/674570.html
PantyRaider....QuestionAnswered!!!
Quinn may not start the season so it's not so bad about "JRus" not starting....Huh?...
"Holding him back
The Browns want to sit rookie quarterback Brady Quinn the entire season. But can they really afford to? Quinn looked good in preseason.
Look for Charlie Frye to be the starter against Pittsburgh, even though he produced just a touchdown and a field goal in nine drives in the preseason. Derek Anderson failed to score a touchdown this preseason and Quinn does not fit in the plans right now. But the Browns' bye week is Oct. 21, which means Quinn could be in after six games."
PantyRaider....TooManyQuestions!!!!
I totally agree with your frustrations RT, but personally, I would prefer that we didn't sign JaM Russell this year. He is too far behind the learning curve to be of any real value to us, and will take a huge bite out of the cap. Let's face facts; his value to us this year is null and void, so why bother paying him? I think we should let him sit out the year, and then sign him in the off season. At that point he will probably come a lot cheaper. As I understand it, the Raiders have his rights until sometime in March. His agents will be much more compliant once they've been softened up by a lack of money and bad publicity. Russell probably won't want to go back into the draft, because whoever drafts him, will offer him drastically less then the raiders would....even at their reduced, 2008 rate.
On a side note, I'm kind of disappointted that Andrew Walter is getting kicked out. I think he makes better decisions than McCown, and that he has palyed better during the preseason. McCown only played fairly well one game. True, Walter is not that mobile, and will take more sacks, but I see McCown throwing more interceptions if he gets in the game. I hope I'm wrong, but I just wasn't that impressed with McCown, particularly this last game against the Seahags. He forced the ball too much and picked the wrong receiver much too frequently. If the defense plays up to its potential then the quarterbacks are going to have to do their part and protect the ball for us to have a good shot at success this year. As disastrous as last year was, The Raiders were in a lot of games until the very end. A few more positives during some games and the season can turn around drastically for us.
DARIUS CUT!
WHITTED CUT!
QUENTIN MOSES CUT! HUH?
MIKE WILLIAMS: IN!
wow. darnell bing got cut - AGAIN!
i think the only reason john bowie made the team is to justify the moss trade.
starks still here is a surprise.
the guy who complained to the union about the ota's being too harsh? i would venture to say that that player was - darnell bing. he got cut from the whiners so maybe his talent level isn't what it seems.
i think we have a pretty well rounded team.
DARIUS CUT!
WHITTED CUT!
QUENTIN MOSES CUT! HUH?
Scorpio:
Whitted is OK but Moses was our 1st 3rd round pick...3a....what a waist if he is not signed to the Practice squad....if he clears the wire....now I have to watch that....
Darius....how do we explain that...was he just too slow or will we resign him for less money....
Starks had the "Int" this week but I am also surprissed....
PantyRaider....GoFigure!!!!!
Transactions:
09/01/2007 RB Michael Bush Reserve/Non-Football Injury (PUP)
So we save him for now....
37 C. Johnson CB
Now how the hell did he make the team.....he got burned so bad as a back-up it's pathetic....was he good on "ST"....
PantyRaider....OutRaged!!!!!
48 C. Clemons DE
91 T. Brayton DT
They made it but no Moses?????
So neither our first round pick nor one of our third round picks nor one of our fourth round picks from the 2007 draft are actively on the team. Wow.
We were warned about Russell. People were saying his mind was on money and his work ethic was bad. I hate to see us lose out on the 1st pick in the draft, I just at this point want no part of J-Russ. If this kid opts to go back into the draft next year its going to cost him millions. I want a team player not a me player,
Calico your crazy man. How can you defend this greedy punk? Is he this great player you claim him to be or is he the next cant miss prospect with bust written all over him? If we could trade his rights we should. He is just a greedy player wanting all this coin. What happens when he gets his coin then decides he does not need or want to play. I see nothing spectacular about him. So were suppose to shell out all this money on a player who has done nothing? Give me a break
from clayton/espn:
• The Raiders didn't want to wait for safety Donovin Darius to get healthy, so they cut him. They thought Darius would be a good run-stopper and fit in well when they used a three-safety package against the tight-end heavy Chargers and Chiefs. Darius never seemed to shake his injuries, so the Raiders moved on.
told ya.....although this cut was a surprise, and i did not agree with the signing, he could have offered some positive on-field coaching experience for our young secondary. oh well...
yeah panty - why IS johnson still on this roster?
Anno:
A while back I would have disagreed with you and campained for "JRus" but at this point I am having trouble seeing the up-side of a guy who acts like him....
He will have to prove himself big-time if and when he ever signs and becomes a Raider....it will nolonger be automatic....just like Portster....I am not just willing to forget until you show me something.....commitment over time....play over time....and loose the selfishness to become a "TeamPlayer"....for more than 0ne game....hear that Jordan....
WaverWire:
How does it work....if a player has to clear in 24 hours or is it by a set date like Monday....in the past the Raiders were very slow to make cuts and were amongst the last teams but now it appears we are early....so could a player cut yesterday or today become available to sign to the practice squad tomorrow or do all teams have to wait until a specified time Monday....I am afraid that Mosses is bait for the "Donko"s sense they need help real fast....if we cut early and sign early we could stop some teams from claiming a player if they have not gotten down to "53" players yet.....
PantyRaider.....Waitin-Waitin-Are You Here Yet "JRus"!!!!!
Come on rt, let your faida fanatics read the truth for once, they're big enough to handle the truth, aren't they? I forgot to add that I fore told you all of the "j-rust" no show as well. If I know nothing, how is it that I can call these events so acurately before your faida fanatics can even figure out the easy stuff? The Amazing Karnak has spoken.
And now I see and look, the Great One descends from the midst of the black clouds above, and he comes down to the angry wild beast below and he mounts in a royal position sitting upon the shoulders of the Great Black Beast, and he is withered and old, his hands are old and bent and his skin is wrinkled, and his face is that of death, but there is darkness and great power in his eyes, and in his right hand he holds his scepter, and his scepter is of power and of rule, for he is the emperor of the wild beast, and the Great Black Beast shall obey his commands, and in his left arm there are three silver trophies, and they are held tightly to his side, and he speaks in a loud voice of powerful thunders, and he speaks about the “Greatness of the Raiders” that all should hear and all should fear the Great Black Beast and the one who is seated upon the angry wild beast….
And then at the conclusion of those days all the Mediots of this great land who earned their fortunes while proclaiming the death of the Great Black Beast, and the death of the Great One who is seated upon the shoulders of the Great Black Beast, with their worthless words and hateful lies will be forced down upon their knees and made to crawl upon their bellies while worshiping the terrifying wild beast, and pay homage to the Great One of the dark side who holds the power of the dark heavens and is seated upon the shoulders of the Great Black Beast and shall rule there forever and ever, Amen!…
A team doctor from the "Squeelers".....a "QB" coach from the "CowGirls".....and a "Patsy" S Rodney Harrison all caught in a "DrugRing" and got suspended.....now how strange is that....
http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d801ff8fe&template=without-video&confirm=true
PantyRaider.....Raiders-NOT-Involved!!!!!
Bama7
Went to be on a high as Georgia kicked OK ST's ass. I wake up and see my boy Moses cut. And Darius too. Wow. I'm shocked. Even more so when I see Brayton still on the team.
At a loss for words. I mean damn all I read about Moses was Kiffen saying Moses was supposedly unblockable in practice... that's worth giving a 3rd rounder one year isn't it. Heck we've given Brayton 3 or 4 non-productive years.
Perhaps they needed the $$'s from both Moses & Daruis in order to sign Russell?
new math old math whatever,i'd like jruss to be with the team to gain experience. but correct me if i'm wrong, al davis has never started a rookie in thier first season ever. fan since 69
I cannot wait to log onto this board at about 9pm est next Sunday night and read all the crying and complaning posts from Raider fans after the Lions put a hurting on them in their own house. I am sure you guys will find a way to blame the refs for the loss after Detroit embarrases you! haha, see ya all next Sunday night!
Nice take on Russell!!!!
Moses might clear waiver for practice squad.
I don't understand the roster moves? PFT is claiming that Al Davis had a lot of say so in it and Kiff is pissed, big time!
But if that was true, then why was Alvin Chip Whit cut?
Q. Moses is a little bit of a shocker, but rumors state that he was unable to be effective as a runner stopper and did not fair well in pass blocking situations.
Z. Cock. man he was a cool dude. I met with him a couple of times and the dude was always a pro. Hate to see him leave, but we need youth in the backfield.
Change is not always good but needed.
DT Anttaj Hawthorne, I thought did a better job than Tyler B.
I think we all knew M. Williams would be on the team, or did we?
Overall, I think alot of us are a bit confused on some of the moves and well the other moves they make sense. Will have to see how it comes together in the coming weeks.
Though, I don't want to believe Al had all the say so on the roster moves? I like Kiff and I want him to say here for a very long time.
I haven't read all of the posts here, but in response to Calico, from my understanding Panty has it right. The Raiders have no problem paying Russell his guarantee for any problems not specifically attributed to Russell. They are trying to protect themselves from the Lelie situation, where Lelie simply refused to show unless they renegotiated his contract.
Russell will get paid by the Raiders even if he's a "genuine" bust, and simply can't get the hang of the NFL. They don't want to pay him if he refuses coaching instructions, if he suddenly decides that $60 million over 6 years simply isn't enough, or if he decides to make a few extra bucks my smugglin drugs.
I don't care if Ashley Lelie was given such a contract. It gave him the power to f*@k his team. I'm with Davis. I'm not into the idea of giving Russell the power to f*@k this team. We are taking a significant risk with him already.
Just read the PFT blast at Davis. "A source with knowledge of the situation," says that since the media was wrong about Kiffin being just someone to plug in to a position nobody else wanted, there is surely nothing but friction between Kiffin (his own man) and that doddering old fool, Al Davis.
Or put another way, "Since Raider personnel and staff don't generally air their dirty laundry in public, we'll just make some intersting shit up which goes along with the rest of the convential 'wisdom' we've created."
Apparently Davis got rid of the "Scholarships" and Kiffin was upset by that. Uh, oooohkay.
Anno- 8:56:
Todd Marinovich started in his rookey year but was replaced by Mark Wilson after he started F&%king-up too much.....Mark started the season and Todd came in for about 4 weeks and had one good game...and Mark finnished the season....
I don't remember another rookey "QB" starting for the Raiders....
PantyRaider.....AinciantHistory!!!
Bama7
How long is the wait to clear waivers? Would like to see Moses and perhaps Huntley back with us.
Bama7
Oops, sorry... I see where Moses was snatched up by the Cardinals... Frampton and Booth snatched up as well.
Shit, I hope the PFT thing is incorrect. This board will be fighting once again if these rumors persist (of Al making decisions). Why would PFT make it up?
After the draft Kiffen stated that he though the drafting experience was an "interesting experiment" (read: Al picked some and he - Kiffen- picked some)
Bama7
meant to add... bet Al & Kiffen each made cuts too.
This is a site has some very good info on the players who made the roster....and why....very interesting reading if you like opinions....
http://www.silverandblackpride.com/story/2007/9/2/15439/97869
The "Bills" have already added 7 players to their "PracticeSquad" so where is the info on who the Raiders are adding.....
PantyRaider....JustSearchinBaby!!!!
Let me try to be as clear as possible about what I think is the cause of the holdout. Alot of folks on this board are taking stuff completely out of context or jumping all over the place.
As stated in the LA Times article, THE sticking point is the "Skill & Injury Clause".
BlandaRocked: This is not about the Lelie situation attributed to Option Bonuses.
Panty: This has nothing to do with misconduct.
Anon: This is not about Russell being a "greedy punk".
Without the Skill & Injury Clause, Russell isn't guaranteed jack$hit.
I'm still waiting for one RT crew member to give me a credible argument for why the Raiders won't give Russell's contract the "Skill & Injury Clause"
>>>>
Calico:
I'm still waiting for one RT crew member to give me a credible argument for why the Raiders won't give Russell's contract the "Skill & Injury Clause"
>>>>
I think Al wants to protect himself from getting fucked in the ass in the LONG RUN.
I'm cool with that.
I'm more concerned about if the rumour site is correct about Kiffin being pissed about the cuts. We can prolly do without JR more than Kiffin.
Good points, Calico Jack.
Some food for thought...
The LA Times report says the following:
"The HAGGLING is over the so-called skill-and-injury clause that protects guaranteed money under any scenario that leads to a player's release, such as injury, death, or simply poor performance."
A recent article in the Sacramento Bee, however, states the following:
"The Raiders contend their deal exceeds $30 million in guarantees and INCLUDES the skill and injury protection Metz and Lock have sought, but the agents now want more guaranteed money. A skill and injury clause guarantees Russell's money if he were cut or injured while with the Raiders."
Therefore, I interpret the LA Times' term "haggling over" as saying they are hung up on the nature or payout of the clause, as opposed to denying the clause altogether.
The clause itself is one thing. How much it's worth is another, and surely open to considerable negotiation. The guaranteed $$ payout under these clauses varies widely across the NFL (although most teams only have one or two players who have such clauses; I read that Tim Brown had one with the Raiders some years ago).
It sounds like, after all of this, the NFL is going to take a very hard look at regulating rookie salaries because the whole thing has gotten out of control--a phenomenon for which, fair or not, Russell has become the poster child.
Based on everything I've heard, but admittedly not knowing every detail of the negotiations, I think that the Raiders have been fair and generous enough for Russell to get back to the business of playing football and showing us all he's worth.
I feel a little like the guy in the clubhouse that jogs out at the end of a baseball brawl.
:-)
My mind is a flutter, firstly Calico my understanding, which is limited no doubt, is not that the skill and injury clause is being withheld, but rather the amount of the guaranteed money is the sticking point. He has guaranteed money, but the amount is what is that hold-up.
I'm shocked about Moses being cut. Out of all the cuts that one surprised me the most. Just goes to show number ones get chance after chance after chance...
RT, I was in the camp that I didn't want to see Russell play this year, the difference b/w him and Leinart, Young and Cutler is that they all played four years of college ball. Or did come out early. I think that makes a huge difference. The jump from college to the pros is hard enough, but I thought he'd make it to some training camp (I figured there would be a prolonged holdout, just not this prolonged), attending meetings, studying the playbook and being around the game, even at preseason speed would all help his development so he'd be ready to take the reins next year. Though I'm still hopeful, it's getting more and more dicey that he can be ready by next year.
blanda, I'm curious about one thing. I find it hard to believe that in a field as competitive as being a professional sports agent that these agencies don't have non-compete agreements. I'm just can't see his bud jumping to DeBartolo, Russell firing his current team, wait five days and then resigning with his bud and there be no prohibitive pentalties. Crickey I work in the architectural world and we have binding non-compete agreements.
I think the thing that most bothers me about this whole contract thing is that Russell hasn't stepped in and forced the issue with his agents. For as much as Quinn is pretty much vilified on this site (well in the comments section at least), supposedly he did step in and say get a deal done. Of course I realize there's a big difference b/w being No. 1 and being No. 23... but I still think it shows something that per all reports Quinn took charge and forced his agents to get a deal done. Even maybe leaving a bit of money on the table. That is what concerns me the most. Even if he's in the right I wish Russell would step in a do something.
And finally on a completely non Raider topic.. HOW BOUT THOSE BEARS!!!
Roll on you Bears
You know it
You know the story
You tell the whole damn world this is BEAR territory!
And just for you Bama...
Pac10 >>>> Sec!
:-)
i'm surprised by quentin moses getting the axe. that baffles me, it seems to be a wasted pick in the 3rd round; especially since it seems arizona picked him up. i mean, couldn't we have traded him? crockett as well, i mean, we just cut him for someone to pick him up for nothing. if you would have told me last week that we were going to cut moses, i would've called you an idiot.
i'm glad to see whitted go, but i was a little surprised by darius. he did have an injury in camp, and maybe he wasn't 100%. i expected the others to be cut. i'm just baffled by some of our cuts that we could have made trades for.
RT: If in fact the Raiders offered the full "skill & injury" clause then the point of contention must be the structure/trigger/language of the guaranteed bonus. If that is the case, I'm also ready to move on with or without Russell. Time to start concentrating on the 53 players in uniform and look forward to a new era under Kiffin.
I'm with you! I can't wait. Stick me in a freezer and thaw me out on Sunday morning, the anticipation is killing me!
Bama7
Hey, Toni.. ouch. Oh well, at least we got the best of the Big 12.
Please check this out if you have not already done so.
http://www.ibabuzz.com/raidersblog/2007/09/02/sunday-notebook-2/
Jerry McDonald acknowledges the pft "rumor" and puts it in great perspective. As per the usual with him. One of the few, although I like Jason Jones from the Bee also.
6 days......
Moses:
I am trying to understad the move but one thing comes to my memory...it may have been Sap who said it....this is a very good "D" with quality players almost throughout and a very good track record....therefore it's going to be very difficult for a player to come in and make this team on that side of the ball....so when players are released from us because they arn't good enough to make our "D" they may be taken quickly to help a team who has a very weak "D".....
I think the oposite is true when it comes to our "O"...we may be looking at the wire for players who got released from quality "O"s in the NFL to plug into our "O"....Players who could not make their teams but could help inprove our team.....and that may be what makes up our "practiceSquad"...."O" players cut from the top "O"s in the league....
Has anyone seen a list of players signed by the Raiders yet....I am still looking....
PantyRaider.....Speculation!!!!
memdf:
ThankYou....that just cleared up alot of speculation....so here we have the begaining of our prctice squad....
center Jesse Boone, defensive tackle Josh Shaw, defensive end Dave Tollefson, offensive tackle Mark Wilson and wide receiver Chris McFoy
Also we may be in the market for another "WR"....that makes things very interesting....so who is available.....
PantyRaider.....Watchin-n-Waitin!!!!
The Donkeys are dead...I knew they were dead....I poked one and it was dead....
Went down to the river to fetch my mule some water....
but when I got to the river my dumb gone donkey was dead...Oh! Lard!...
He's a long gone I'm wit da "Mule Skiner Blues"....Oh! Lard!...
What happens when a Buffalo meats a Donkey...."SmashGuts".....the Donko"s are dead....
PantyRaider....Shoot da lame mule!!!!
Here's some food for thought on that PFT article:
http://www.realfootball365.com/nfl/articles/2007/09/raiders-pft-rumors030807.html
Calico Jack,
Thank you for being the voice of reason in this cacophony of chaos. Quite a few of us are forgetting that FOOTBALL IS A SPORT, THE NFL IS A BUSINESS. Passions are running high and what is needed is some cold-eyed reasoning.
A new post at http://silverandblackforever.blogspot.com
When you look at the 53 man roster and in particular the starters on offense, a few things are quite evident:
#1 The roster has been radically turned over ... roughly a 40% change in personnel.
#2 The starters on offense seem to be a better fit for Kiffin's offensive philosophy & schemes. This offensive philosophy is a hybrid WC style with a ZBS scheme. A few quick examples
Green & Carlisel>>>well veresed in ZBS from Denver
Griffith >>> well versed in ZBS from Atlanta + a pass catching weapon FB
Porter & Curry >>> good route runners, zone busters, good YAC
Miller >>> security blanket for QB and solid red zone target
BMW >>> another red zone target
Jordan, Eche, Rhodes, Fargas >>> seem to more decisive under ZBS
Culpepper & McCown >>> roll outs, mobility
Gallery >>> seems to have found a long term home at LG
Overall, I'm quite pleased with the rebuilding phase of our offensive unit.
Does it make anyone else nervous that Kiffin hasn't come out and said "Culpepper starts"? I'm not buying the "make Detroit prepare for both" line, because they are the same guy, Culpepper is just way more accurate and produces points. I'm thinking Lane is seriously considering McCown and am dreading the following Wednesday headline "Josh has had great practices this week and we're going with him". Yikes! Hope not.
If I were to talk to or had the ability to write to Russell, I would state the following:
----------
Jamarcus, when you finally agree to terms on you contract, you will make more in guaranteed money just by signing you name than most people will earn in a lifetime. And, many of those people are the same ones who see the prices on their season and game tickets increase each year and pay extra for NFL Sunday Ticket just to watch their favorite team play. In my case that favorite team is The Raiders.
In addition, by signing you will become part of a team whose fans are amongst the most fervent and loyal in the world and whose owner is one of the most loyal. Don’t be fooled by their supposed reputation as it comes from those who speak from jealousy and ignorance. This is a fan base that would truly go to war with you and for you. I know of what I speak. I have been a loyal fan since 1964, and served on two Special Forces A-Teams, so I know what it’s like to be a fan and what it’s like to go to war as a team. That fan base is part of that team.
Each day you are out makes it harder to catch up, and moves you further from the fans. Whether their perception is close to the facts or not doesn’t matter. Their perception becomes reality and makes it harder to win them back.
--------------
If it is his agents, he needs to fire them. For if he goes back into the draft, he will not be the number one pick and will lose millions, possibly tens of millions depending upon how far he slides.
Note to the idiot media type who said Russell would set a record for holding out and reentering the drart, that record belongs to Bo Jackson. However, Bo stated up front he was not going to sign with Tampa.
H
Hey Raider fans, after Detroit beats you on Sunday and sends your promising season into a tailspin after only one game, will you guys blame the refs, or will you admit that Detroit was a better team?
When the Raiders have the #1 overall pick again in 2008, will you guys have Brian Brohm signed before the draft, or will you allow him to miss all of training camp in a contract dispute?
In regards to the zone blocking scheme... a Hawkeye fan just told me that Gallery played under it at Iowa... so he is returning to his roots for the first time in his NFL career.
I am telling people if either Gallery or Jordan make the pro-bowl this year (a big if) the Raiders will be in the playoff hunt. Hey, it might happen!
Calico:
Toni and RT are correct. The net sum of what I've heard is that Russell wants more of the 60 million guaranteed than the 30+ already on the table (I've heared numbers from 35 to 40), and they want it fully guaranteed, so it is like the Lelie situation.
Kiffin is well aware of this as he demonstrated at the beginning of camp by saying, "I'm confident our negotiators are doing everything necessary to protect this team." And he went on to say that the future of the team is what is most important here.
The Raiders seem to be making the statement that Russell is NOT the Raiders' future. He is an integral part of that future if, and only if, he signs with acknowledgement of his own accountability and reasonable guarantees from the Raiders.
Anthony Carrol reports that he thinks that PFT's reports are about as accurate as Nancy Gay's. The only cut that is questionable is Moses, because he was the highest picked DE, and the team needed DEs at the time they drafted him. Also remember that he was questionable in regard to covering the run, and the Raiders projected him as a situational pass rusher. The problem was that Richardson blew Moses away in preseason games, and Kelly was moved to DE. Brayton, on the other hand was moved inside, and played fairly well inside. Moving Brayton inside is not surprising. During his rookie year they talked frequently of using him mostly inside, but occasionally slipping him outside, similar to the way Howie Long was used.
All that was abandoned when they attempted to convert him to LB under Turner, and then stuck him back at DE under Shell. I've always been a little surprised that folks don't cut Brayton at least as much slack as they cut Gallery, because Brayton his been put under the same kind of confusion. I predict that Brayton will have a better year this year as a backup than he had last year as a starter.
I'm sorry to see Crockett go, but I understand it. Players with attitudes like Crockett's don't come around much anymore. I'll miss him.
Darius was cut because they weren't confident he could stay healthy, and the uncertainty about when Russell will arive means they'll want to do as little forced roster juggling as possible.
I really can't see any other cuts that should be of any surprise.
H:
Bo also had a baseball game to go play and it paid him $$$$-Mil...."JRus" does not so he would just be a total looser....how can he afford that....no doubt he has already taken out a loan or two based upon his future worth....so have fun trying to make those payments....or will "Granny" have to pay....How sad is that....No wonder she is complaining about the "HoldOut".....
H....do you think it posible that "JRus" and other players search around the "Web" to see what is being said about them....myself....I have no doubt....I remember an interview on the radio with a player who was talking about what the fans were writting about him....I think it was a baseball player who got alot of attention....so no doubt that a football player is doing the same thing....Hell!!!....they might even post a comment under a "Cammo" name....what do you think....sometimes I make comments that are addressed at them just incase they are reading....like in this post today....
Ik:
I think it goes beyond the Lyons....I think "Kiff" is looking ahead to the "Donko"s with the "QB" thing....I expect McCown to start against his old team and if he playes well enough to win the game he will probibly finish....but I expect Culpepper to start aginst the "Donko"s so they prepair for the wrong "QB" and a very simple "O"....look for it to get opened up week #2....
The other posibility is to start one and at the half bring in the other to disrupt "Shannon"s adjustment to the "O"....Kiff is going to play some "HeadGames" with the "MuleHeaded" bastard....
PantyRaider....SupportinGranny!!!!!
BlandaRocked:
Now I understand how #37 made the roster....we need someone to "CUT" when "JRus" signs or MBush is healthy....why else did we keep Johnson at "CB".....
PantyRaider....SeeYa!!!!
panty, OH is that the reason? i thought it was because al gave him the #37. you know - lester's old number. and we CANNOT cut lester right?
:o)
Scorpio:
That's funny....I had not made the conection....I remember when we cut Lester loose and he was so angry....he would not talk to the Raiders for a long time....took it really personel because he says he was not warned and treated properly in the way it was done....
What I find funny is that the players now are saying Kiff phoned to say they made the team and that has never happed anywhere before....so maybe Lester would like getting "CUT" by the New-Raiders....
PantyRaider....JustPlayNiceBaby!!!!
Now is this some type of "DirtySourJoke"....according to this artical Moses was cut by mistake....that is if you believe that "Under-Coaches" control the commication within the team to the front office....sonds like a lot of "Crap" to me but who the hell knows....I gues we get credited with our first "Fumble" of the year....or would that be an "INT" by the "Cards"....
http://mvn.com/nfl-cardinals/2007/09/02/thanks-oakland-cardinals-jump-on-moses-after-raiders-reportedly-cut-him-by-mistake/
Lets not have another "TO" with "JRus"....Please "FootBallGods" spare us the humiliations....
PantyRaider....What-a-Joke!!!!
Pantyraider:
All I can say is if I were playing a team sport for money I would want to be as close to the fans as possible. You look at great Raiders of the past (Stabler, Hendircks, Plunkett, Casper, et al), they were always aware of what the fans thought. They played as much for the fans as for the team.
I remember reading in one of John Madden's books that in the Sea of Hands game Stabler was confering with Madden on the sideline. Kenny looked up at the crowd with his helmet on top of his head and said "You know coach, the fans are really getting their money's worth today."
They cared what the fans thought and played that way.
H
lol no one answered my question from this morning. I asked the same question to my cousin who is a huge Raiders fan. If Detroit beats you guys on Sunday, are you going to be men and admit that Detroit is the better team? Or are you going to blame the refs or whine about the scheduling or come up with another lame excuse? Raider fans have the reputation for being big whiny crybaby fans, so I am interested in reading what the participants of this message board have to say in regards to the question I have thrown out there.
Hey, Anon, I see that you've changed "after" to "if" regarding the Lions beating the Raiders.
What's the matter, already hedging your bet?
Yeah, if the Lions win, I'll admit the Lions are better than us, just as the Jaguars were better than the Colts last year because they beat the Colts 44 to 17, right?
What kind of depraved soul trolls around the site of a team that went 2-14 last year (on Labor Day, no less), looking for that team's fans to bet on a 16-0 season? What's your point?
More important, what are you going to do for us when the Raiders beat the Lions? How about this: get a life and spend your internet time rooting for your own team instead of hating another.
Is it a bet?
Bama7
Blanda, you say "what I've heard" in regards to the Russell situation. You have no source. You're guessing like the rest of us. And where in the world are you getting the 35-40 mil guarantee number? Many news outlets have reported the guarantee number at 31... with the hang-up being the clauses working against the guarantee. Blanda you're just making the other shit up. Flaming the situation against Russell. I'm as frustrated as you but when you post like that you're no diferent than Gay. There's obviously something very strange going on and I assume it's the agents are scared of taking a deal that will be viewed as bad.
As for Moses, I don't see how Richardson "blew him away" when they both had 1 sack, right? Richardson's the same cat that did nothing in the title game against florida. Nothing and Florida was still throwing in the second half. Hopefully he'll blow us all away this year.
All we know about Moses is the coach said he was "unblockable" on two occasions and we gave him $610,000 guaranteed. It's pretty strange to dump a thrird round pick, yet keep other picks that looked horrible in the games (Bowie, Johnson).
Meanwhile Brayton gets manhandled in camp, by Gallery no less, and really does nothing to distinguish himself (again) and yet we have to watch him another year in yet another position. The dude has it made... if DT doesn't work out this year there's always O line next spring. At the rate we're going Brayton will be trying QB in 2010.
Hey Anonymous,
Our objective here is to discuss and support our team. Your silly interjections are about as relevant as a pimple on a nat's ass, and about as intelligent as the nat.
If you want to have a serious discussion about football give yourself an identification and admit who your team is. And how long you've been a fan.
Are you that attention starved that you have to make inane comments designed to draw attention to yourself like a spoiled three year old?
I normally don't like to get personal, but in your case I'll make an exception. How about after the Raiders beat Detroit you finally admit you secretly dress in women's underware and pretend you're Nancy Gay.
H
Bama7, I hear you, and I understand the NFL is a business, etc.
My "Sayonara" take is admittedly a bit strident. However...
There's just at time when the "fanatic" in this particular fan starts to kick in, when I'm forced to choose sides, and when I err on the side of my team. That time usually comes in early September.
Thankfully, while the NFL is a business, it's not real life or life and death, so I have the luxury of thinking this way.
At some point, I conclude that that the Raiders apparently gave Rich Gannon enough, Jerry Rice enough, Tim Brown enough, etc., and whatever they have offered is enough for this kid to get on a plane to Oakland.
It's like the Jerry Porter thing last year. He apparently had a point. But come gameday, he was the only one in street clothes. Not LaMont Jordan. Not Warren Sapp. Not Derrick Burgess. Jerry Porter. For that, I blame him.
My team is ready to start the season. Is Russell on it--or not?
I too must admit I am puzzled with the release of Moses, possibly Richardsons was better against the run.
I am also one who wanted us to draft Russell. I'm not sure where the problem lies and will not speculate. There's nothing we can do about it now and we have the closest thing to him on the roster right now in Culpepper.
The thing I'm most excited about is Zach Miller. Many years back I broke down a few years games and when the Raiders' tight ends caught five passes or more we won over 70% of the time.
Now, I admit that was a good while back, but having an additional weapon at TE to keep the chains moving will be fun to watch. Especially with time of possession resting one of the best defenses in the league.
H
Take,
I agree, and I'm fully behind my team now as always. Each Sunday is another chance to win and pull out of the funk that has been the last four years. Your comments concerning Gannon, Brown, Rice et al, was dead on.
It's September and the game is on!
H
Bama7
Agree H & RT. Agree. Guess I was still smarting from the cuts and the Russell thing.
I also didn't like dumping a straight ahead basher like Crockett, who can play FB or HB in a crunch, in favor of Fargas.
Also wanted badly for Darius to work out. Guess he's too hurt.
I am high on Ward though. And I too like Z Thomas. Madsen should be a monsetr in the offense.
Worried about Simms when we play the dolts and Miami, however.
I'm just glad you didn't call me Nancy Gay.
This is the guy that posted that question this morning to you Raider fans. I am a Patriots fan and have been attending their home games since the Sullivan Stadium days of the 1970's and early 80's. I came across this blog when I googled the JaMarcus Russell contract negotiations to get an update on how things were proceeding with him. My cousin is a die hard Raiders fan so I do know a bit about your team just from arguing back and forth with him for decades. This game coming up Sunday between two sad sack franchises in the Lions and Raiders could go either way. Both of the teams are pathetic and both will be lucky if they can win 5 football games this season. I don't know much about the Lions or their fan base, but what I do know about the Raiders is the whining and the crying that comes from theirs. They whine about the refs. They whine about the schedule when it comes out every April and whine when they have to play both of the particpants in the Super Bowl (forgetting that their entire division is playing both Super Bowl participants). They can never admit when their team is beaten by a superior team. I know because I hear it all the time from my cousin and his Raider friends. They are the "excuse bunch" cause they have an excuse for everything. So that is why I posed the question that I did earlier. This message board seems to have some halfway intelligent Raider fans here. BlandaRocked actually seems to be knowledgable about the game of football and is an articulate poster, even if his choice of a favorite team is somewhat demented. I want to know if this is another whiny message board where the excuses will come flying if/when the Raiders lose to Detroit on Sunday. I already know my cousin is brushing up on his latest "blame the referee" excuses. Will this board be men and hone up to defeat? I will tell you what, if my team falls to the Jets this Sunday, I will come here and sing the praises of the Jets. You wont catch me blaming the refs or the NFL schedule makers, or Roger Goodell for my team's loss.
Anon:
Just go back to last season's posts, and you'll see that we were all blaming the Raiders coaches and/or players for the debacle known as 2006. I hope that clears it up for you.
As for the schedule, I invite you to go back to one of my first takes here, on September 16 of 2005, referencing a Sports Illustrated article in which your Super Bowl Champion PATRIOTS were complaining about the schedule (and actually getting SI's sympathy).
When the refs screw us, they will hear about it.
Leave it to a Patriots fan to say that Raider fans whine about the refs. Nuf said.
BTW, how's that team-imploding time bomb we planted on the Pats working out? Rumors are already surfacing that Moss is complaining about his role... and the season hasn't even started. How awesome is that?!!
Toni-
IMHO Russell's age and limited college experience may be less a factor than than it appears. It's all about the individual. Case and point, there are 11-year-old kids who attend college. Some people are just exceptional. There's nothing that says Russell couldn't, or shouldn't play this year. It's all about the individual. Of course, getting him signed would seem axiomatic to testing my little theory.
09/03/2007 LB Jon Alston and WR Jonathan Orr Signed to Practice Squad
AnnoAss:
Are you a "Liar" PatzyFan....who did you beat in the AFC Champianship so you could go to loose to the Bears in your first ever "SB"....45-3.....and tell me that game was not handed to you by the "Zebra"s just like the game against the Raiders was...."TuckRule" Crap....now are you man enough to admit that your team was the benifishery of bad calls and that without it whould never have advanced to those "SB"s....Come on....Give me an answer.....I'm waiting....
PantyRaider....HistoryLessens!!!
Bama: I agree with many of your points in your 3:48 pm post. The majority of news sources I've read say the Raiders/Russell have agreed on a $31M guaranteed bonus but the sticking point is how the guaranteed is structured.
As far as Richardson vs. Moses, my view is that the Raiders took Richardson because he played much better against the run and showed promise as a pass rusher. Moses was the odd man out since he was far too 1 dimensional. Guys like Bowie & Johnson found roster spots because of their abilities to play special teams. Brayton has no business making the squad. I hope he proves me wrong and actually contibutes in spot duty at DT.
Patsie Fan: This is not a "whiny" message board. Your cousin might make excuses but who the F cares? One thing I can say with absolute certainty is that the majority of the Raider Nation are very loyal & passionate fans ... whether the team is winning or losing.
Google any team with a rich history and you will find that winning & losing seasons is cyclical. This includes teams like the Cowboys, Steelers, Niners, Raiders, Patriots etc.
It took the Pats 41 years to win their 1st SB. You are in the midst of a nice run in this decade. Enjoy it since it won't last forever.
Here are the relevant facts on both franchises:
Regular Season Record:
Patsies 350/341/9
Raiders 400/302/11
Playoff Record:
Patsies 19/12
Raiders 21/17
Divisional Titles:
Patsies 10
Raiders 15
Conference Championships:
Patsies 5
Raiders 5
SB Appearances:
Patsies 5
Raiders 5
SB Victories:
Patsies 3
Raiders 3
In every single category the Raiders are tied or superior to your beloved Patsies. It is easy for you to toot your team's horn when you are on top but I'm sure you are the type of fan who is in the witness protection program when you guys are down.
To come on this board and purposely try to get attention by irrating everyone else just shows that you are a completely shallow, souless loser.
Amen! Calico Jack....
Classic. A spanking for the ages.
Week #1:
Bills seem to be able to throw the ball and their running game might work against the "Donko"s very weak "D".....they are having trouble going to the 3-4....the coaches complain that they are slow to learn...I understand that...."Donkies-n-Mules" are known to be very stoburn-n-stupid beast....I give it to the "Buffalo" at home...."It's a Stampead....Get Out the Way Donkies".....
Texans...now there's an in interesting bunch....6 guns and all....well I don't expect a bunch of "Squaws" to be able to sustain much of a fight....they look to be on their knees most of the time....Wow! I hope that dosen't lead to "Impeachment"....Cruality to woman or a "Battering" charge....Well....I give it to the Texans.....
Bears-n-LightnigBugs....the only thing going for the "Bugs" is there quick and hard to see in the dark....tough to catch the little bastards....I would really like to say "LightsOut" to the "Jolts"....but....da Bears are...well there...have they got a leader yet....Hummmm!....I have to go with the "Jolts" but this could be the first up-set of the season with the "TurnerFactor".....Come on "Turner"....Turn out the lights for us.....Please....Please....Please....
Lyons-n-Raiders...."PussyCats" meet the "Metal" of the "LongSilverSword" of Victory....It's a Slaughter....Pussy anybody.....I have to give it to the "RAIDERS"...
PantyRaider.....G0000OOOOooooRaiders!!!!
YOU GO CALICO! WOO HOO!
I knew nancy gay aka ft and rt wouldn't leave my predictions on the this whack website. I'll give you another chance nancy boy, you want me to be wrong so badly, but you're all in such fear of my record of calling em right 95% otf the time, it will be a semi sweep in the afc west, Chargers beat bears, Chiefs beat texans, Broncos beat bills and bringing up the rear the Detroit Lions BEAT the faidas! If you chickens don't believe me.....leave this post until monday the 10th. I am ALWAYS right! The Amazing Karnak says so.
Another sign Lane will go with McCown--early line is Raiders - 1 and 1/2--way low for home game vs. Lions [should be more like 3 1/2]. Hope I'm wrong....
Anonymous,
I guess my Nancy Gay thing hit a little close to home. If you're reight 95% of the time, you must be living the high life in Vegas or talking out of another orifice besides your mouth.
I lived in New England a few years back in the 70's. I also remember a Quarterback you had back then comming back from shoulder injuries due to that stupid artifical turf in Sullivan Stadium. He came back to help salvage a horrible season for your team. He was booed off the field and later kicked out the door.
His name is Jim Plunkett. Last time I checked, he had two Super Bowl rings, comeback player of the year and a Super Bowl MVP, and you guys threw him away like yesterday's trash.
My main point is, if you want to discuss football and the trials and tribulations of a team, be a man about it and not hide behind this anonymous crap. Especially with moronic comments specifically stated to draw attention to yourself.
Yes, the Patriots have had a good run. And, the so called experts in the media have already crowned them SB champions this year.
But, remember this. Whether the ref was right or wrong. It took an officials interperation of what he saw to give the Patriots a path to their first SB championship. The key word here is inteperation.
Football is not life or death. Whatever the outcome this Sunday, the sun will rise again on Monday and I will still be a Raiders fan, and there is nothing you can think up to say in that little pea sized brain of yours to change that.
Why don't you tell your cousin about this site. I think he could use a break from people like you. We may argue back a forth be we are still family. And when you started insulting Pantyraider for the way he writes on occasion, well, that just pissed me off.
After this I'm done with you. You're not worth my time or effort.
H
P. S. Great research Calico.
Bama7, re my 35-40 million. You're right, that's a guess, but an educated one. One of the things I heard from a reliable source early was that the amount of guaranteed money was a sticking point. Then the word was that they came to an agreement as to the amount (between 30 and 31 million), but the Russell camp wanted it all unconditionally guaranteed. That's the only scenario where the hold up seems to still make sense.
I believe that Russell's camp is trying to engineer a deal where at least 50% of the six year deal is unconditionally guaranteed. If the guarantees extended into a higher percentage, but with conditions, there's a good chance Russell would still be assured about 30 million no matter what.
I'm not above guessing. I don't critize others for guessing as long as they don't hide the fact that it's a speculation. The Raiders release very little information, and answer very little media criticism. That's why the guessing runs rampant. But it's also why certain members of the media don't hesitate to report their speculation as fact.
My toughts for the upcoming game.
I believe the key is how we deal with 3 WRs which is, from what I understand, the standard set now for the Lions. C. Johnson will be the #3 wide.
Since we've released Darius, one might consider that we are abandoning, at least to a degree, the big nickle. We acquired Darius to fit that package. With the use of a left and right safety instead of weak and strong side safety, Huff and Schweigert will alternate on covering Johnson. When we use 3 CBs, Starks will apparently get the assignment.
Which brings me to the question, does anybody know what happened to Rout? I know he was injured most of camp and the preseason, but he doesn't show up on the depth chart and I didn't see that he was released. I'm assuming then, uless informed otherwise, that he's been placed on injured reserve.
Another thing of interest. Has Russell been secretly signed? He's on the most recent team roster which includes the practice squad, the suspended list, and the PUP list. To my knowledge, he hasn't been listed on the roster since training camp began, but I admit I don't check it that often.
Regardless, the fact that he's there indicates there is some sort of feeling that he'll be signed sooner rather than later.
As for Patriot fans. You have to excuse them. They've been losers for so long, they haven't quite got the hang of this winning thing yet. Kind of like going out in public for the first time, it takes some practice. It's like 49er fans back in the 1980s.
Anno, take a look at the 49ers from the late 90s through the present. That's your near future. With the acquisition of Moss, it may just be even nearer.
Bama7
No prob, Blanda.
I see Denver signed Simeon Rice. Denver has several speedy ends, which will cause problems for Simms. As much as the Broncos have appeared to slip, they still manage to be a threat.
And lastly, I can't help but copy and paste Peter King's comments on the cutting of Q Moses:
"Something stinks in Oakland. The Raiders released third-round defensive end Quentin Moses. When I was in Raiders camp, there was talk of him starting this year. Smells like a disagreement between Al Davis and Lane Kiffin over the final roster. To me, it's a terrible mistake. Moses will play, and play well, in the NFL; and the Raiders will be embarrassed over this. The Cardinals claimed him. I bet he'll be starting for the Cardinals by Oct. 1. What a dumb cut that was."
This from the Tooz at his blog, and he's right.
"Why is it that so many fans say Al Davis Drafted Moses and Kiffin cut him? How about this: both drafted and both cut Moses... Al Davis as the owner and Lane Kiffin as the coach did their jobs... what is so hard about that?
"Every time we draft a player with 'freakish potential' its got Al Davis all over it? it was Al's move... blah blah freakin blah... everytime we draft a "lunch pail" guy its "Al let the coach pick that one"....blah blah freakin blah...
"Sorry but these constant themes, peeve me off --- I expect it OUTSIDE the Raider Nation..."
Bama7
we'll see what happens.
BlandaRocked:
"JRus" has been on the "Roster" all pre-season but not on the
"DepthChart"....so that is consistant....SanfordRout is on the "Roster" but not on the "DepthChart".....I don't know why.....#37 Johnson is listed 3rd string on the "DepthChart" and I have no idea why he is on the team....was he good on "ST"s.....he sucked in coverage but I hear he has good speed.....
AnnoAss 12:03
How did you miss my challenge or are you just the coward "Liar" that I said you are.....if your a "Patzy" fan for so long than you should be able to answer the damn question....here I will "Copy/Post" it again so you have no excuse to miss it...."Silence is Prove of iIgnorance"....
AnnoAss:
Are you a "Liar" PatzyFan....who did you beat in the AFC Champianship so you could go to loose to the Bears in your first ever "SB"....45-3.....and tell me that game was not handed to you by the "Zebra"s just like the game against the Raiders was...."TuckRule" Crap....now are you man enough to admit that your team was the benifishery of bad calls and that without it whould never have advanced to those "SB"s....Come on....Give me an answer.....I'm waiting....
PantyRaider....HistoryLessens!!!
6:03 PM
PantyRaider....Face-the-Music!!!!
Oakland Raiders odds to win the AFC: 33/1
Oakland Raiders odds to win the AFC West: 10/1
Odds on the Raiders to win the 2008 Super Bowl: 75/1
How many NFL regular season wins betting lines on the Raiders: over 51/2 wins (-110); under 51/2 (-120)
PantyRaider.....BetsAnyone!!!!
If memory serves me, all the "experts" in the media said drafting Moses were we did was a mistake. Now they are saying cutting him was dumb.
I wish Peter King and his cronies would make up our minds. This thinking for ourselves out here is just getting way to hard.
I think I need some aspirin.
H
http://www.insidebayarea.com/sports/ci_6798665
Here is an interesting article on a little lockerroom humor involving Al.
Psycho
The Moses thing to me is not that difficult to figure out. As I remember his collegiate career, his junior year he was tops in sacks. In his senior year he was double teamed and told to play more for the run, so his pass rushing stats went way down, but his tackles didn't increase significantly.
The Raiders drafted him with the idea of him becoming a situational pass rusher, and in OTAs he looked like he'd be great. It was from the OTAs that most of the compliments were issued by Kiffin and Ryan. Then they put on pads and Moses played okay, but he was overtaken from behind by Richardson who was more capable of stuffing the run, and making great strides in his pass rushing skills. With the decision to move Kelly to DE on a permanent basis, there was one less DE spot on the roster and a need for another run stuffer. It was likely determined that should the need arise, Richardson was a better fit to move to the DT position.
Richardson was a big surprise to me. He was completely off of my radar until the final preseason game. But rise he did. Moses wasn't a bad pick, somebody just beat him out for the job.
I'm not quite sure why there is this visceral hatred of Tyler Brayton. Yes, I understand that he had no sacks last year. But he's played the same kind of musical positions that Gallery has had to go through, and both players had pretty good preseasons when plugged into a position and kept there. I've seen many here question his inclusion on the team. But if you look at it like Kiffin said he was going to look at it - that last year didn't count - what he's done in camp and preseason isn't inferior to anyone other than Sapp and Sands. I think he'll be an effective DT for us. You certainly can't judge him on his body of work as a LB. I still don't understand what Ryan (or maybe Turner) was thinking on that one.
Base on this:
http://oaklandraiders.stores.yahoo.net/3027071201.html
Can someone explain to me why Porter can't change his number?
Pope:
Porter attempted to change his number too late in the process. This type of thing is covered in player contracts for maketing purposes. The player gets a cut as well. At the time Porter wanted to change his number, the 84 jerseys were already stocked. He was allowed to change it but at the price of being fined his marketing share, so he changed his mind.
Here's another briliant piece of journalism by some guy named Scott Garbarini.
"But no matter how many games Oakland improves by, 2007 can't really be considered a fulfilling year for the franchise if Russell is unable to get onto the field"
Yes Scott, if the Raiders win three or four division games, go 10 - 6 and make the playoffs, it will mean nothing since Russell did not get to play.
What kind of mind thinks up this dribble.
H
H
Must be a "Donko" fan who wrote something like that....."MuleHeaded"-n-"DonkeyDumb"....
FreakingPope-n-BlandaRocked:
I wonder if it had something to do with what # he wanted.....#81 belonged to Timmy who was always a great player with alot of commitment....why would the team want to spoil that by allowing someone like Portster to wear that #....and I totally agree....come back and prove yourself by what you do but no we aren't going to just give you "Timmy" type respect by letting you wear his #.....
Also...what type of relationship was there between Portster and Timmy when they played together....I remember Portsters comments when Timmy retired...he said now that Timmy-n-Rice are gone he will become the next "TO"....well he certainly had his mouth....
PantyRaider....PastCommitments!!!!
Well....I decided to start up a little "Rivalry" at the "DenverPost" news paper....they have a "Donko" blog so I just posted a little "PantyHumor"....a song I wrote for the "Donko"s season.....
http://neighbors.denverpost.com/viewtopic.php?p=32475#32475
PantyRaider....JustFunninBaby!!!!
Is it just me, or did Curry quitely take over the #1 WR spot?
Psycho
Psycho,
I think you are right! It's hard to tell with only a "unofficial" depth chart, but that is how I read it as well.
Psyco:
I like it....and I think Mike Williams will replace Portster more often than Taylor will replace Curry....but I look for alot of opertunities for Higgens....
So when we go to 3 "WR"s who steps up first....I think Williams....
Expecting a very simple "O" against the Lyons Sunday....nothing gets opened up until "DonkeyWeek"....
PantyRaider....PlayBall!!!!
We're looking pretty solid at WR with Porter working hard and all. Curry is probably just plain better than a dedicated Porter. The only thing that bothers me is Taylor's dropped balls. Williams has really come along, and Higgins is going to be extremely good one day. Sweeeet.
Psycho
Re Porter: We heard all about how he was comming in with a new attitude, and he showed up well in the 1st preseason game, but then he disappeared. A couple of balls went his way in subsequent games, but he couldn't get to them.
I'm not sure if they just weren't looking Porter's way or if he wasn't getting open. Fact is, I think Curry just beat him out for the #1 spot. Curry is damn good. More and more I think he's a throwback to the types the Raiders had in the 1970s.
There are some things reported by JMac today that could indicate that McCown will be the starter. While it's possible, perhaps probable, that Culpepper does not have a sufficient grasp of the offense quite yet, my problem with McCown is that he was unable to find the endzone thoughout the preseason.
I remember when Madden finally sat Lamonica down in favor of Kenny Stabler. The problem wasn't that Lamonica wasn't moving the football, it was that he was only moving it between the 20s. He just could not find the endzone for the life of him. Stabler came in and changed all that.
I'll be less nervous with Culpepper starting this game for experience sake if nothing else.
"Damn good" he is, Curry. I guess that's why I don't really see any issue with Porter possibly being bumped to #2. Porter should be pretty productive this year. He had his best years in the West Coast O.
If not you can bet you ass Kiffin will make a change. That's motivation enough for 'ol Porter. His problem seems to have always be motivation.
Psycho
Of course I don't know for sure, but I wouldn't read too much into Porter's preseason. While he's no LT (held out of preseason), I think Kiff knew Porter was a top two receiver and he was given little opportunity to play due to injury risk. Not many players were handled like that, but a few were. Curry is our leading receiver from a year ago, and remains that until unseated, IMO.
Taylor and Williams will probably be fine. I believe Williams is a serious red zone threat. Think about it...with the size and pass-catching abilities of Curry, Porter, Williams and Z.Miller and Culpepper throwing them the ball, we should be infinitely better in the red zone, as well as up and down the field. By itself, that will be a pleasure to watch.
Blanda-
That scares me too. I can't imagine the Raiders will pay Culpepper to watch... Gulp! And for the exact reason you stated, McCown going 20-to-20 yard lines isn't going to get it done.
Re: Moses, I’ve heard both sides and I just can’t come to terms with his release. And not just Moses, we dumped Huntley (a quasi proven pass-rusher from last season) and Hawthorne, another guy many thought was a steal in the draft. What happened to Sapp’s eight?
Here is the Jerry McD quote blanda is referring to:
"Defensive tackle Warren Sapp was involved in what appeared to be a serious conversation with Daunte Culpepper heading off the practice field. Culpepper's body language suggested he hadn't received good news."
Well, I guess it wouldn't really be a permanent thing to go with McCown this week. 1) He's as familiar with their D as the Lions our with his QB style, so for that reason he might make more sense. 2) It gives Daunte another week to study up and heal up. 3) Introducing Daunte to Denver, rather than giving them game tape to prepare for might be a good thing. I guess my only issue with #3 is, would that mean we're "looking past" the Lions? I doubt it, because Kif has been talking about the lions for weeks. But it's curious if we do go with McCown for a week. I'm sure Kif is fully aware of Al's policy of beating the Donks #1.
Psycho
Re: Huntley/Moses I liked them both a lot. I suppose the trend we're seeing is to go with more of a run-stopping lineup with Kelly moving over and Richardson making it. Not a bad idea in general looking at our division.
If that's the case though, why did we draft a pure pass rusher in the first place? And where did C. Clemons come from? They must see something I don't, because I thought for sure one of the above mentioned guys would get that spot over Clemons. Hopefully I still have some games tapes to see what Clemons did because I'm drawing a blank.
Psycho
Bama7
I wouldn't think we're going with McCown. The way McCown played? Wow. Culpepper cleary outplayed him. Maybe they're scared to put Culpepper in while Russell is unsigned: If Culpepper gets hurt there is absolutely no leverage in the negotiations with Russell. But then again I don't think Al is trying real hard to sign Russell. Here's where I piss most of you off: I think Russell is Kiffen's pick as was Moses. Al shows he's the ultimate boss in regards to roster by simply cutting or not signing those he didn't want. He's sick. Did y'all read the comment Al made to Simms after practice... http://www.insidebayarea.com/sports/ci_6798665
Weird. Al's someone that power has corrupted to the point of being ridiculous.
And agree with NY RAider on Moses and Huntley... even Hawthorne. You gotta go with any of those three over Brayton. At DT or DE or LB.. or any other position for that matter.
So this is the game we play now. I don't like this guy that they picked over another, so he must be one of Al's pets. Or I like this guy so he must have been Kiffin's pick. So here we have a never ending supply of Al's "scholarships" because there will always be some player you'll prefer over another.
Incidently, the author of that article (was it Carrol, I can't remember) said there was nothing behind it, just that Simms wasn't the preson who needed to decide whether the team had improved. That decision belonged to the coach and ownership.
Don't make me tired.
Bama7 - That was a good point on the staff possibly being scared to get Daunte hurt and "losing leverage". However I think that's where I can stop agreeing.
The article is more like Al making a humerous point of not going Ape Sh*t crazy over the current 'positive' situation until we win a Super Bowl and prove it. Ever the perfectionist, that guy.
Psycho
I can’t imagine that any of us could really make the Davis vs Kiffin power struggle argument based on our exposure, and we should all know better than to think the media knows jack s..t. If I was to guess (which is all I have at my disposal), I’d say Al provided input to some or all the cuts, but based on the players cut, Kiffin made the decisions. I would also guess that they may have tried to sneak Moses onto the practice squad, and perhaps even regret the move.
Now, if McCown starts, that’s clearly a Kiffin move, because we all know Culpepper is Al’s man.
Another thought comes to mind about Moses... wasn’t it the Lions who picked him up? Yikes! The entire defensive scheme of the Raiders sent to Detroit for a one-week crash course.
BlandaRocked:
I second the emotions....where the hell is "Crap" like that going anyway....every comment is tied to a "Stab" at the ownership of our team....as a Raider Fan I have become compleatly tired of that whole line of "Crap"...."Commitment to Excriment"...."You are what you eat" and "a man speakes his guts" are two very ligitamate sayings that relate to the source of this "Crap"....If "Crap" is all a man has is he than not "Crap" himself....Tired of the "Stink"....
Keven Huntly....was he signed by any team....I was un-able to find info....
Clemons....he played very well in the first game or two....I know he had at least one sack....maybe more....
This artical in the Denver Post speaks very loud....here are the local writers talking about the weakness in the "Donko"s "DL".....they can't stop anybodies running game....and they don't have any sacks....so without preasure on the "QB" the "DB"s will have more trouble covering the "WR"s....and in their plans they want to play a 7 man front....which contributes to the problem.....
I was watching the collaps of the "Donko"s last season and this was also the problem they had than so they scraped their "DL" and strted over....but it will take time for the "D" to learn and jell with the new "D" plan....so I think there is good reason for CoachKiffen to look ahead....why show them anything to prepair for....keep them in the dark and hit'em in the "Snout" when they show their ugly heads....
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_6794191
PantyRaider....."Donko"s are "DeadMeat"!!!!!
I think the area Denver really blew it was letting Al Wilson go. He was their heart & soul no matter how old he was. The Raiders shifted young Morrison over to MLB successfully, and the Donks are trying to do the same thing with Williams. So far it isn't quite panning out from what I see and they have nobody to be that signal caller in the middle who knows what's going on enough to lead.
Who else feels like Morrison was a 'gift'? This guy is shaping up to be an elite player, and more importantly, Raider to the bone. The tables are nearly turned.
Clark, although good, wasn't the player Al Wilson has been for the Donks so it's a little different. It seems like maybe the Donk players kind of resent the move like what we went through with Biekert but on a bigger scale. Just speculation.
Let's cross our fingers Williams doesn't have the brain matter needed to work the middle and the Donks are left searching for answers. Morrison is one smart cookie and that is a huge 'check mark' in the Raiders corner in that comparison. Feeling good about our chances? I am.
Psycho
Picking up on the WR thread ...
I'm not sure why even of you are hung up about which WR is currently labeled #1 and which is labeled #2. Last time I checked, for the vast majority of snaps, we have 2 WRs on the field. The WRs on the field distinguish themselves through production not labels.
Does anyone feel Moss was our "#1 WR" last year? Of course not. Based on production, our "#3 WR" last year (Curry) was our true #1 WR. Since Porter & Curry will see the most playing time, what difference does it make who is labeled #1 or #2 on the depth chart?
As far as BMW & Taylor, both seemed to improve and become more comfortable as the preseason progressed. Higgins was effective at stretching the field and keeping the D honest. I like our 5 WRs + TEs + RBs as pass catchers.
The Kiffin offense will prove to be more diversified and less predictable. The playcalling will be more creative. The Red Zone targets will be more common sensical. The drive stopping, game killing negative plays (sacks & turnovers) should be greatly reduced with Kiffin managing the offense. This in turn should lead to better TOP & advantageous field position from sustained drives and ultimately more offensive production.
The preseason was a fairly "vanilla" offensive package. Being an avid Trojan fan where Kiffin was immersed in a high powered offense, I am very confident that Kiffin will show the Raider Nation why Al hired him in the 1st place ... paraphrasing "I wanted a Head Coach who can call his own plays...a Head Coach accountable for the playcalling"
This just in.
According to the NFL Network, the Raiders and Russell's agents are planning face to face meetings this week. There appears to be movement in the negotiations.
More to follow - stay tuned.
H
H:
Again that sounds great but I just want something to happen and we can put it all behind us....one less negative distraction to take away from the season....
Time to stay focussed....
MikeWilliams....this guy plays with so much heart....have you seen how often he gives a "StiffArm" to a "LB" or "DB" and just keeps moving....that's a great element that he brings to the team....I hope it rubs off....Portster has the ability to play a physical game but he lacks the heart to go for it consistantly....maybe a little "BMW" will rub off on him...
CalicoJack:
As for #1-#2-#3-#4 "WR"....I look at it as to who stays in the game when substitutions are made....will it always be "Curry-Portster" and than the #3 added with the 3 "WR" package.....
Or will it be Curry every play but depending on the "Down-n-Distance" either Portster..."BMW"....Taylor...Higgins on the field with him on 2 "WR" sets....
Also....and it's up to the "QB"....who becomes the #1 target....gets the first look....2nd look....on a given play....
Psycho:
You broke down the problems with the "Donko"s "D" very well....I will be watching their game Sunday and looking for opertunities for the Raiders....the Bills will try to run the ball down their throats and I hope they are sucsessful....Marchell Lynch could have a very good game against their weak "DL"....
We have another advantage....with 2 "OL" from the "Donko"s now playing for us and a "DT" also....we should learn how to do a "BeatDown" on their "O" and "D"...you know CoachKiffen is pumping that for all it's worth....I would be....
PantyRaider....LyonsFirst-DonkiesSecond!!!!
Nancy Gay take, faidas lose to Detroit Lions, 28 to 3....Broncos over billy goats, Chiefs over texmexcans, Chargers over bearcubs, afc west sweeps except for the LOSER faidas. Last place becomes the slobber and whack. "pantystainer" "smelicowhack" "bungholeshocked" haven't got a clue. faida take aka "nancyboy took" will erase this because "HE CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH" (Jack Nicholson from you know the movie)...0-16 faidas still perfect. Watch it on your "faidio" ha ha ha ba ha ha boo hoo hoo, the faidas can't sell out "our house" Watch for musical qb's to start Sep. 9th. as soon as "culpumper" fumbles away the ball a couple of times the order will come from the "luxurious box' of big al (MR.) davis to put "mc-clown" in, who knows after the "clown" throws a few int's you might even hear "andthrew falter" in for "clean up" duty. To clean up the doody. J-Keep defending the "notion" baby.
Panty: As far as the WRs ... I would take an educated guess that for the majority of snaps, both Curry & Porter will be in the game. There are certain packages where the Raiders might go to 3 WR sets (3rd and long) and 1 WR sets (goal line). There might also be times when BMW/Taylor/Higgins are inserted into the game to give Curry or Porter a quick blow. I'm not assuming that Kiffin won't mix and match the WRs but I do feel confident that the highest % of snaps both Curry & Porter will be on the field together. Of course if Curry or Porter stuggles and/or get dinged up, then Kiffin will need to adjust accordingly. Finally, I like how Curry & Porter fit into the Kiffin offense. Both are versatile, physical WRs who have the ability to get open, catch passes, and gain yards after the catch. Both can run every route in the playbook. Both will get plenty of opportunities to shine. Both are capable of 75+ catches, 1000 yards, and 8+ TDs. With Curry the worry is always his health. With Porter the worry is always his attitude & consistency. It will be up to Kiffin to push the right buttons to maximize each WRs productivity. What I really like about Curry besides his high character, is that if he faces single coverage, he has a gift or knack for getting open & making plays. He instictively knows th coverage from his experience & knowledge of being a QB in college.
Pantyraider,
I just happened to have my laptop open and the TV on NFL Network when the report was aired.
Just doing my job.
Actually I will believe it when he is at practice, not when it is announced. Until then I root for the 53 that are there.
H
Bama7
Psycho, you nailed it on the broncos D... losing Al Wilson will hurt. I have read that DJ Williams is not looking good in the middle.
Also- Lynch is still a tough hitter but has become a huge liability in ocverage: Miller and Madsden should eat his lunch.
Now, Simeon Rice was a great pick-up for them... coupled with the two speedy Dlineman they picked up in the draft (Moss & Crowder) Simms will be challenged mightily.
As for the KC Squaws, they are coming apart at the seams. I think they will be awful this year.
Lastly, the Dolts: talk about losing your heart and soul... shottenheimer was that team. That was a blueprint shottenheimer team. AJ Smith, made his first mistake. Look for the team to not have the same physical nature they had under shotty.
Bama7
A good bet as to the skinny on the Russell deal...
http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/raiders/
Following up on Bama, here's the telling quote from the Sac Bee piece:
"The deal with Russell (as of right now) is there is no deal. The Raiders have offered a six-year, $60 million deal with $31 million in guarantees, $30 million protected against skill and injury.
The hang-up is a clause in the contract that would reduce the guarantee amount to $27 million with the last $4 million coming later in the deal."
Correction from my earlier post: Eric Frampton (not Quentin Moses) was picked up by the Lions and has been giving them a Raiders crash course. Frampton was said to be informing the Lions about the Raiders tendencies, one of which is to throw fades to BMW. Where’s Frampton’s professional integrity?
Here’s another perspective on the same issue of the $4 mil.
“Russell's uncle, Ray Russell, said Tuesday that his nephew and the Raiders are getting closer to reaching a deal. "We've talked more (with the Raiders) in the last two weeks than we've talked since he's been drafted," Ray Russell said. "It's a matter of adjusting or restructuring $3 million to $4 million. ... It's so close, it's where you're just waiting."
http://www.al.com/sports/mobileregister/index.ssf?/base/sports/118898375010100.xml&coll=3
Let the hating comence!! Our good old friend at FoxSports are still putting us at #32 on their power rankings, even after acknowlengding our solid D. I was getting worried about the media. They've been a little too nice to us lately. Leave it to Fox...
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/
powerRankings?MSNHPHCP>1=10437
Psycho
Re: Russell, that's all great news!
Re: Frampton, you jackass traitor! Hopefully someone catches him on a kick return of something. But still, that's probably not as bad as what Lombardi is likely telling the Donks about how the Riaders do business.
Psycho
Bama7 said, "Lastly, the Dolts: talk about losing your heart and soul... shottenheimer was that team. That was a blueprint shottenheimer team. AJ Smith, made his first mistake. Look for the team to not have the same physical nature they had under shotty."
Though I think Schottenhiemer played a big role in establishing the Chargers; but I think the real credit goes to his Coordinators Cam Cameron and Wade Phillips. A coach succeeds as his Assistants succeed. Just like in a real business, an owner of the business is as only as successful as his managers.
Where the DunderDolts stumbled was Schotty not letting his Coordinators scheme in the playoffs, and overriding their decisions for a more conservative game plan (the mediots blame Al Davis for doing the same thing, but you don't hear them roll on Schotty). You will see a different Chargers team on the field this year, and they won't be dominating. Not only because they lost Schotty, but because Wade and Cam jumped ship. They will not be above .500 this season. Mark it down.
I work close with a huge, knowledgable Charger fan. He's even thinking 10-6 under Norv & staff.
***************
Here is a nice Monte Poole article and a quote from Sapp:
"There is a plan," Warren Sapp said. "You can see the goal, and we're being shown the things we need to reach it. Last year, it was like, 'OK, fellas, there's your goal. Figure out how to get there.' It's like they didn't know what to do or how to get it done."
http://www.insidebayarea.com/
raiders/ci_6805302
Psycho
When it comes to Frampton I don't fault him. I'm sure McCowan has filled the Raiders in on some of the players strengths and weakneses on the Lions. After all, your allegiance is to your current team.
The dirty little secret is the Lions may have picked him up just to pick his brain. Look to see if he is released within two weeks of the game. If that's the case we will know.
If anything the Raiders may have the advantage since the head coach and defensive coordinator worked under Monte Kiffin.
The real contest will be between Mike Martz and Rob Ryan. I vote for Ryan. (Pet peeve: Why is it the offensive coordinator can talk to the QB via helmet radio but the defensive coordinator can't do the same with his play caller).
If the difference on the Russell contract is between 3 million and 4 million, make it 3.5 and send the difference to me. I need some new beer supplies.
H
h - Good points there. Especially the beer part.
Re: D coordinators and headsets, the Raiders have a huge anvantage. Morrison can hear every word Ryan says from clear accross the field, probably even playing in Seattle. :)
Psycho
Good one Psycho.
Early lines from Danny Sheridan:
Raiders 2 over Detroit
KC is a 3 point dog to Houston
Denver is only 3 over Buffalo
SD 6 over Chicago
If Houston is favored over the Chefs, what does that portend for Herm Edwards. Sheridan is one of the best handicappers in the country.
Chicago may still be hungover from the Super Bowl, especially with Grossman still at QB. But, I hope not. At least for this game.
H
One more item on Frampton.
Detroit evidently has some injury problems in the defensive backfield. The following quote from an article on the Lions:
"Yeah, injuries are a fact of life in the NFL, but why does it seem Lions defensive backs drop like flies every season?"
H
The S.D. fans are over here in Orange Co. are nervous. They're scared of dropping a game to Chicago only to travel to N.E.
0-2 would be a nice start!
Psycho
http://www.nfl.com/news/
story?id=09000d5d8020de76&template
=with-video&confirm=true
Quick thing from Adam Schefter on Russell, at the bottom, posted 15 min. ago. Nothing spactacular, but it's something.
Psycho
Psycho:
Interesting....I have been watching info about "NE" and they are also worried about playing flat against "SD"....that is becoming a very big rivalry with alot at stake....I would give the coaching edge to "NE"....time for Turner to show his stuff....Just a Looser...and the "QB"s are both good but again "NE" has the edge....but the real advantage goes to the team who can "SweetTalk" the "Zebra"s....again that has to go the "NE"....+ Home Field....
"NoMoss" may not be ready to play until week 4 or 5.....the "PatzyPussy" will "Crash-Burn".....
AnnoAss "Patzy" Fan:
I thought you were a "Fony"....so the investigation is complete....you could not even answer a simple question about your team that you have followed sense the "70"s....Liar-Liar....
Answer....1984 Defending "SB Champs" LA Raiders and the "Zebra"s gave you the game that time just as much as they gave you the game 2002...."SuckAss Patsy Liar".....
PantyRaider....NeverForget!!!!!
Russell might be in for a shocker. If Culpepper starts on Sunday, and winds up lighting up the scoreboard, Davis might shut down negotiations unless Russell considers reducing the amount of money on the table. I think that Russell's agents took the position that Davis had no choice other than to give in to their demands because Davis didn't have anything better than Russell. If Culpepper shows he's fully capable of regaining his old pro bowl form, he could wind up carrying the Raiders for another three years.
The idiot at Fox says that if Culpepper starts, it's obvious Al is still in control, but if McCown starts its a sign that Kiffin has been given authority.
This is the kind of rediculousness that's wearing me out. If I don't like the move, it's Davis' interference; if I like the move, Kiffin is asserting himself.
Let's see how they spin it now, as McCown is the starter, according to the new Schefter report. How will Al get "blamed" for this choice?!? Who cares - light 'em up McCown!
PFT is citing conflicting media reports between ESNP (Culpepper) and NFLN (McCown), giving the edge to the Raiders for maintaining the confusion this may cause Detroit as to who will start Sunday.
nyraider:
Exactly. I saw one report that said that Culpepper looked depressed, so it was McCown, and another report that said McCown looked depressed so it was Culpepper.
Of course Adam got it right from the horse's mouth - from Kif. "I know who it is. Don't wait for announcement." So obviously it's McCown.
Adam Schefter, can you say "moron?" I knew that you could.
It appears the maestro (AKA Coach Kiffin) is playing the media like a Stradivarius.
H
There's some movement on the Raiders depth chart. Echemandu and Fargas are competing for back-up HB for now.
Rout has been placed as #3 CB. It looks like BJ Ward will be the Big Nickle SS. But they still have Carr listed as both KOR and PR.
Brayton backs up Sapp, and Warren backs up Sands.
More info from PFT. Everybody is more certain now, because nobody on the Raiders is saying anything. But both media outlets are now saying McCown. I'd laugh my ass off if it turns out to be Culpepper - and I'd be a Kiffin fan for life.
PFT questions how close the Raiders and Russell's agents are. PFT speculates that it could be that the agents are just telling the Russell family that so Russell doesn't follow Bratton.
The Culpepper/McCown thing is interesting because it's been confirmed by the players that each is getting about the same number of reps with the first team. Could it be that Kiffin is determined to play every angle?
What if he's throwing McCown at the Lions (who's a week ahead of Culpepper in the offense), and the following week against the donkeys he'll change up with Culpepper. What would Al have to say about that?
This "hide the QB" business is starting to look lame to me. Here are the possibilities:
-Kiffin is actually still undecided despite reports that a decision has been made (a scary thought)
-or Kiffin feels some unorthodox (and questionable) impulse to attempt to psyche out the freakin' Detroit Lions (whom I doubt are very psyched out by all of this).
It's too cute and gimmicky for my tastes. Let's play some football. There's something wrong with being worried about the Lions knowing who will be under center.
Take:
Personally, I don't think this has anything to do with the Lions. I think Kiff's messin' with the media.
A head coach is allowed to have his fun too. No?
Possibly...But the media should be the least of his worries at this point, the absolute last thing this team should be concerned with on the eve of a new season after a 2-14 season.
Good day, sun shines!
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