No More Camouflage
This “hide the QB” business is starting to look lame to me. Here are the possibilities:
-Coach Kiffin is actually still undecided despite reports that a decision has been made (a scary thought)
-or Coach Kiffin feels some unorthodox (and questionable) impulse to attempt to psyche out the Detroit Lions (whom I doubt are very psyched out by all of this).
It
There
There’s something wrong with psychological warfare being attempted in advance of a matchup between a 2-14 team and 3-13 team. That's like inviting hamsters to a lecture on Russian literature.
As for the notion that it’s simply a matter of Kiffin messing with the media: The media should be the least of Kiffin’s worries at this point, the absolute last thing this team should be concerned with on the eve of a new season in the wake of a 2-14 season. We should be worried about things like not standing still and staring at the ball after a fumble, and not scratching our heads over the concept of a no-huddle offense, and not impersonating saloon doors on the offensive line.
So give Culpepper the ball, announce it to the world, and let’s go skin some cats!
posted by Raider Take at 6:19 PM
154 Comments:
Take,
I agree we just need to get on with business. But, at the same time it could be allowing the players to mess with the media or even testing them to see who's in and who's babbling to any reporter who will listen.
In any event, a little secrecy can be a good thing if done for the right reasons.
We're all a little antsy to get going and see what the final product is.
To everyone who will be at the game:
Since the commute from Atlanta is a bit rough, I want you to all be so loud I can hear you with the TV muted.
H
I generally agree, it's kind of pointless to go through with this.
My guess is the decision came so late (after the 4th game) that the thinking behind keeping it a secret for the remaining few days is "Why Not?".
So yeah it seems pretty lame and we probably won't gain anything from it. But who knows, maybe the Lions are affected in some small way, and it doesn't affect us either way.
Psycho
As long as it aint Aaron Brooks we're way ahead of the game.
***News***
Adam Schefter is reporting that McCown is to be named the starter for week #1. As of one hour ago.
Psycho
Bama7
Agree totally, RT. What's the point. Both run the same game, so I don't see how it gives us an edge.
I hope Al is up to his usual PR tricks and tries to steal a bit of thunder from tomorrow night's opening game by announcing the signing of Russell. It'd be typical Al, find a way to get the Raiders in the discussion on prime time during someone else's game.
At this point, I'll take it.
I agree RT. Just tell the lions who the starting qb will be, than go out and beat their brains in.
Just keep it simple.
Also would like to agree with those who felt we should have kept Moses, and dumped Brayton.
It just makes more sense. How much could the coaches have learned from watching Moses play four exibition games ??
On the other hand, after three yrs of watching Brayton, we can safely conclude that he really stinks.
Moses had more upside and deserved a longer look.
We already know that brayton sucks.
I believe this will turn out to be a mistake.
Once "Hells Bells" blasts from the speakers at 1:00 no one is going to care about all the preseason hype, hide the QB secrecy, media mind games, or Russell negotiation. It will be time to concentrate on the only thing that truly matters ... Raider football.
Raiders 24
Kitty Cats 13
Here's to an exciting, fun, rebuilding season that throws a few more logs on our eternal flame of optimism, hope, and Lombardi Trophys.
RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIDERS!
Can you feel me? Calico Jack is so pumped up his heart & head are about to explode! :)
Idunno I kinda like Brayton as a DT. I was as disappointed as anyone with him at DE & LB. But he has always played the run pretty good on the line. My only thing with him is that he could never get to the damn QB. I've seen him make many nice stops and he always plays hard. He seems to have a good handle on play recognition too.
I'm not saying Moses should've been cut. But he's a DE, and Brayton is a DT. So you have to look at Hawthorne and ask yourself if Brayton is better than him. J.Richardson just plain beat out Moses.
Go McCown!!!
Psycho
I dont think its a big deal, i am pretty sure every player on the team knows who will be playing where and thats all that really matters.
I do agree that it seems pointless.
ekgraider
RT:
I guess I am the only one here that wants to disagree with you....but I do....I don't think it has anything to do with the Lyons.....I think it has alot to do with the "Donko"s who would like to start preparring their "WeakAss" "DL" for game #2....
I don't see that the 2 "QB"s run the "O" the same way....Instead I see a huge difference between when Culpepper is in the game and with McCown...Culpepper has that great Veteran savy that comes to some with age and expieriance...and he just has the ability to do things that McCown can't....like beating the blitz for a "TD" to Curry over the middle....Quick and decisive.....
I don't believe this has abything to do with the "Mediot"s except they are a tool that can be used to spred the confution....I said 1 or 2 weeks ago I expect to see McCown start the season....and than I expect to see one of two things happen....
#1.....Culpepper comes in to play the second half....now what ever adjustments are made at half time will be no good and have to be scraped....that takes a huge advantage for the "O" and frustrates the "D" and it's coaches....Look for a very vinella "O" that does not show anything.....but now the "Donko"s will have to spend all week preparing for two differant "QB"s and that will be disruptive to them....
#2....McCown plays well enough to win the game against the Lyons and we don't see culpepper until the second week.....but again it will be McCown who is the starter....as far as what the "Donko"s believe....but it will be Culpepper who comes out to play the game....and the advantage is ours on the first few drives while the "D" tries to understand Culpper.....
Now the "O" will have some plays which are game-planed for the "Donko"s "D" in the first few positions....but in the second half the "O" will get opened up and again their "D" will not be prepaired for it....their halftime adjustments will have been useless....
Than I believe that this sets the tone for the season as CoachKiffen tries anything and everything to be disruptive to every coach he faces durring the season...."HeadGames"...."What the hell is that guy up to".....
PantyRaider....PsychologicalStratagies!!!!
Good points, PantyRaider. But I figure ShanaRat is saying: here's Jay Cutler, come and get him. Meanwhile, we're playing "hide the QB?"
Honestly, as much as I hate to admit it, I think ShanaRat is much more concerned right now about Philip Rivers than he is whether or not McCown might start for the Raiders. Of course, I'd love to make him pay for it!
My head is about to explode with anticipation, too. Is there a pill I can take for that?
I think Kiffin's going to surprise everyone and roll out Rusty Hilger on game day.
And after Hilger goes down, Donald Hollas will throw to Carlos Francis on Sunday! Take that, Lions.
As some of you know I am over at the "Donko" sites speading a little "HateMail" with my strange sensles humor....well I recieved an unexpected reply that is worth reading....their are actually some "Donko" fans who are not as "Dunb as a Mule"
""""KMA says -
Wed Sep 05 08:50 | Comment
First off.. Panty Raider: very creative!
I have to agree that these are pretty far fetched but KMonty did say BOLD.
I do agree with the KC prediction, the Raiders are better than they are getting credit for and the Chiefs are worse than reported.
I also believe that SD is not up to par with what they did last year. Norv is Norv, just ask Raider fan.
As for placement in the standings the Broncs have a tough schedule to be sure, I see it playing out this way…..
AFC West
SD 12-4
Den 10-6
Oak 7-9
KC 5-11
Den final wild card (on the road) @ Indy
Close game but similar result to what we always do in Indy, not able to keep up.
we took a step back last year, so this would be a decent improvement
However, we have a solid playoff base to build and get in the SB very soon, I predict we will have a championship in the next two to three years.
Boy I just re-read what I wrote and I really hope Kmonty is right, mine is kind of depressing :)""""
PantyRaider....InterestingExchange!!!
I think i dislike this "hide the QB" situation so badly, because it is so un-Raiderlike. Seriously, we are the Raiders and we are going to take this ball and take what we want.
We are not supposed to be playing these type of games with the kittens of the league.
We need to beat the kittens like we do every time they come to Oakland and get ready for the Broncos.
I bet Kiffin will look back someday and laugh at his decision to hide the QB.
Prediction:
Culpepper Starts
Raiders 27 Kittens 10
Jeez, PantyRaider, that Donkos fan sounds downright reasonable, and he even recognizes true artistry when he sees it. Too bad I have to hate him.
Raider Raza, "un-Raiderlike" is a perfect term for it.
I sincerely hope Kif is not overlooking the Lions in anticipation for the Donk game. I hope McCown is starting Sunday for the right reasons.
1) He still knows the O better.
2) He can run like Gannon behind an unproven line.
3) He hasn't thrown a pick yet.
4) His health is not in question.
5) He's possible trade bait we need to show off before Russell signs.
Pepper is clearly the better QB on an even playing field. But we gotta' roll with McCown until Kif says otherwise. I'm going to just assume McCown is our guy until further notice, like a 'good boy'.
Remember Plukett. He sat for an excrutiating period of time, only to see guys like Pastorini and Wilson get the snaps (Sorry if I'm confused, I was 3 years old, but I'm pretty sure). We can afford to sit Daunte a little while and have it pan out in the end.
Psycho
Puttin things in perspective, we are playin the kittens in our home and we acting scary.
I like the attitude we showed against the rams when we went for it on almost every 4th down. Kiffin needs to bring back the swagger...
RT - It's funny how just hours after you call "shinannigans" on the lameness of the QB hiding situation, they "leak" info to the media about McCown starting. Just saying...
Panty - That was a great response you got from that Donk, errr Bronco fan. I have to give him at least THAT much respect. Yeah, it really is too bad I hate that guy, I might've liked him.
Psycho
Psycho:
Your 3 year old memory is pretty good....
Plunket was "ShitCanned" by the "Patzy"s as a "Flop" and sighned by the Raiders....he sat for 1 or 2 seasons and when Pastorine broke his leg Plunket came in and the Raiders never looked back....If I remember right the Raiders were 4-3 when Plunket took over and they finished 11-5 and a "PlayOff" team.....
PantyRaider.....Trying-to-Remember!!!
Romeo Crennel literally flipped a coin to determine his starting QB during this preseason. Cam Cameron apparently abdicated his head coaching duties during the most recent preseason game, citing some truly bizarre reasons. Brad Childress is running with verbal scissors. This is not a crowd I want to run with.
So let's just back away from the crackpot ledge and play some football.
I'm going to give Kiffin the 'benefit of doubt' on this one. I'm not saying I like this 3 card monty act but jeez ... put yourself in his shoes. The guy is 32 years old, has never been a Head Coach, takes over a pathetic 2&14 team, is working for one of the most eccentric, demanding bosses in the known planet, has unbelievable demands on his time, enough pressure to fry an egg, the Raider Nation & media alike demanding his time, 53 men, 20+ staff members he is responsible for ... I could go on and on and on but I think you get my drift. Cut the guy some friggin slack and roll with it. If this is a mistake, it certainly won't be the last. I have been amazed at how he has reshifted the attitude, rebuilt the coaching staff, rebuilt the team, and most importantly, changed the expectations. All in a quick 6 months. Raise a brew to Kiff, cut you complaining, and get ready for some Raider football. We will be in for a treat when Kiffin takes off the training wheels on the offense and rolls out an electric, high powered, creative offense.
I'm F'N In! Whose with me?
Calico - Brew raised, with pride.
Psycho
i'm IN. al - you in bud?
I'm with you, Calico Jack! Good points, too.
In fact, for the very reasons you cited, I am very impressed with Kiffin.
Which is why I just don't understand why he's suddenly stealing pages from the Romeo Crennel/Dennis Green guide to coaching. It turns what should have been a non-story into a story (as evidenced by the related media frenzy), which can only add to the pressure.
Anyhow, I'll chalk it up as an aberration in an otherwise sterling debut.
I'm not upset about Kiff holding back on the QB and center call. The only disadvantage that I can see from this would be if one player's confidence is shaken by not being put out proudly as the starter- and I don't think any of them is lacking in character so much as to be bothered by it.
Is it a mind game for the Lions? I doubt it, and I don't think it was intended as such. It's a media play and it does two things for us:
1) Gets the media talking about us (and takes the spotlight off of the Russell negotiations)
2) Gets the media to chase their own tails rather than point out how "desperate" we must be to have picked {insert QB name} for our starter.
For me, the move is very "Raider-like" in that Kiff isn't playing by someone else's rules. It's not a matter of being afraid to identify the starting QB and center. It's a snub at the media who expect the head coach to give up any information they ask.
I hate to make the comparison, but the coach that comes to mind when talking about this kind of tactic is Bill Belichick. How often does he play the "guess who's injured and who's not" game with the media? And no one considers that lame or a sign of weakness. (That comment will most likely bring out our anonymous Patsy pest, but I have a feeling the Patsy defense will disappoint enough this year to make him quietly disappear over the next few weeks anyway.)
In my opinion, this whole game Kiff is playing is just a nice way of telling the media to "get bent" and to not expect him to be at their beck and call. The kid's got moxie, and I'm getting a kick out of it.
I'll be making the trip out to the bay area to catch the home opener, so hopefully we'll all get to toast the beginning of the Kiffin era in the parking lot before the game and celebrate a successful first step towards restoring the winning ways of old afterward.
More like camel phlegm... "miss kiffy" will prov to be just one more forgettable nobody in the legendary faida history of let downs. Another of big al (MR.) davis' "great" experiments. His "youngest coach" approach to bambozzle you fanatics into thinking that the "genius" can pull a miricle out of a school boy wonder. "miss kiffy" will break your hearts and disappoint your beloved "nation", 0-16 Detroit don't care who you LOSERS put in to fumble away the ball. "just keep the dream alive babies.
culpepper should start folks. plain and simple. ready or not he gives us the best chance to win.
i know it "appears" that russell may be close to signing but hey i have a hypothetical..... lets say culpepper has a great comeback year, we sign him to a mini-extension say 2 years, russell doesn't sign and goes back in the '08 draft; the raiders are among the top 5 pickers (hey calm down man, it's just an example!) and russell is available - again. do we pick him again knowing its porter's contract year and we'll prol need a #1 receiver? or are we gonna let that "johnson" slip away again?
hmmmmm.....
You have to Kiffin some props for this move. What better way to impress Al Davis than giving the media a touch of mystery before the first game even begins?
And, adding to that mystery scenario, how do we *really* know they haven't signed Russell already but are passing him off as Daunte Culpepper? You know, a little makeup here and there, they teach him to fumble like Culpepper during the preseason, mimic some of his other traits and then suddenly when the season begins? WHAM! 90 yard TD passes down the field. He then pulls an "Ocho Cinco" moment and tears the Culpepper and #8 off his jersey to reveal RUSSELL #2 instead.
Hey, stranger things have happened.
Hmmm...actually, no. They haven't.
I'll be disappointed to see McCown under center. Sure, he's had 3 more months to learn the offense, but whatever happened to making it based on performance. Sure, Daunte had a few bobbles, but at least he threw some TD passes in pre-season.
...but what do I know. Whatever the decision, just hope Kiffin knows what he's doing.
(I would've kept Hawthorne over Brayton for the reasons already put forth....we know Brayton is lame and Hawthorne has a lot of upside and is younger)
I believe every player knows already who is starting at QB and Center. What the press sees is meaningless since most of the practice is closed to them.
This just in: Raiders resign Mark Wilson. Ah, so that's the plan. They've disguised Mark Wilson as an offensive lineman but plan to start him at quarterback.
Calico, I'm with you. It's time for Raider Football and Kiffin to lead this team out of the muck and mire that was last year. Mire, wait a minute, is Rick Mire starting?
For those with exploding head syndrome take two from any of the following:
Lager
Pilsner
Porter
Stout
Brown Ale
IPA
And play Autum Wind continuously during the consumption.
Repeat if necessary, but don’t call me in the morning.
It might not stop your head from exploding, but it will be less painful.
Dr. H
PantyRaider,
Quick correction on your Plunkett memory. The Raiders were 2-2, Plunkett came off the bench in game five with the Raiders trailing but didn't win making their record 2-3.
When he became the starter they went 9-2. One of the losses was a close one to the Eagles whom they destroyed in the Super Bowl.
That entire season is probably my favorite Raider memory. If I am incorrect on any of this someone please correct me. After all, at my advance age the memory is the first thing to go, or maybe the second, I can't remember
H
The mystery wrt the media isn’t so bad, so long as it’s not a mystery to the players. After all, the Raiders have always been an “insider” team, never giving the media more than they are required. It’s not like the Raiders are planting stories, the media is taking it upon themselves. The fact that both QB’s are still getting reps with the first team to me implies that McCown will start, but Kiffin will have him on a short leash.
If Kiff does start McCown I can only hope McCown has an ax to grind with the lions, and is up to the task. IMO, Culpepper is a no-brainer, simply based on experience, moxie and the fact he threw 4 TDs to McCown’s zero during the preseason.
To echo what Panty said earlier, there's a very real possibility that Kiffin's plans are to start McCown for game one and then Culpepper for games 2-??. That would enable McCown to have a revenge game against his former team and an opportunity to state his case that he should be the #1 guy...and would give Culpepper one more week to pick up the system.
Bama7
As for the QB McCown/Culpepper deception, the only sense I can make of it is that Russell will indeed be signed this week and Culpepper will be cut for monetary reasons. It's the only thing that makes sense, because Culpepper is clearly the best option. I hate to lose Culpepper. This is why haggling with Russell over a lousy 4 million was such a bad idea. The guy should have been in camp and ready to go... in the long run the 4 mil is lost anyway as your paying him this year's salary for nothing. We save nothing. If you were truly going to go with McCown & Russel then Russell indeed had a GREAT shot of playing this year... not sitting.
If Culpepper is cut, add him to Moses's name as another blunder by Al & Co.
bama7
And yes, Scorp... I'm in!
Psycho
I was over there reading J. McDonald's blog about the "body language" of the players and everything. I think there was a comment somewhere else about Sapp trying to talk some wisdom into a troubled Daunte. And we know about the "leak" that McCown is getting the nod. Now we see Daunte almost splitting 1st team reps with McCown, but with McCown getting a little more.
It occured to me that the Raiders might be planning to let Daunte go before the season starts so they don't have to pay him the $3.2 mil or whatever, knowing Russell is close to getting his foot in the door (not sure if anyone else mentioned this).
Why else would it suddenly become urgent to get Russell signed within 48 hours? Why else would they quietly name McCown the starter, but keep Daute secretively "warm" as if there is still a chance he'd start? And maybe all this secrecy is just in case something changes with the Russell negotiations (negatively) and we continue to need the services of Daunte, making him a starter.
Maybe that's what Daunte was struggling with, talking to Sapp on the field. He seems frustrated and he should be if this is the case. If his release is inevitable then I feel for the guy. He deserves a shot. He's worked very hard. He's all class. Good luck if you're not here Saturday, Daunte.
Psycho
bama7
Oh great, you beat me to it by a couple minutes! I knew I shouldn't have taken a dump in the middle of that last paragraph! 'Great' minds think alike I guess.
Although I wouldn't call Daunte a "blunder" if released. He's been an excellent insurance policy, great leverage during our biggest negotiation ever, and a good guy to share veteran experience throughout our building for a while. And we're basically not paying him anything for his troubles, if cut.
The only part of it I hate is the cut-throat business decision aspect of it.
Psycho
Calico-
I feel you brother.
"In Kiffin We Trust"
Panty-
BehindEnemyLines!
I'm (Kiff) IN!
i bet jay schroeder starts on sunday, and don mosebar starts at center for us. tom flores will be the backup qb, and jamarcus russell the third stringer.
seriously, my vote is culpepper, and i think he is starting.
psycho, the report from schefter and these other wanks on espn are stupid. both sides report that kiffin has said (and i quote), "i know who the qb is, but don't expect an announcement." then off that statement alone, schefter says it's mccown, and espn says it's culpepper. huh? did i miss something?
i don't really care who starts as long as the raiders win. LET'S PLAY SOME FOOTBALL!!!!
RT - I don't particularly like the secrecy either, and agree with raiderraza that it all seems very un-Raiderlike. But perhaps this game has more to do with the Russell contract negotiations than anything. If Daunte sits, the Raider camp can't really pull the "we've got Daunte" card anymore. And the Russell camp knows McCown is not any sort of long term answer...
-blackbagonia
Nate - I agree they're a bunch of "wanks", especially ESPN.
But Schefter usually does have decent sources and I wouldn't doubt McCown starts. Schefter said two seperate sources confirmed it.
Further evidence is that McCown is getting more 1st string reps with a game just a few days away. Plus Daunte's apparent frustration. If Daunte were the starter, McCown would be getting few to zero 1st string reps right now. See above for my opinion on why Daunte is getting 1st string reps, with the assumption that McCown starts. It's all stacking up in McCown's corner even if it's not official yet. But yeah, I'd rather see Daunte too.
Psycho
You're over the top on this one, RT. Let the boys have their fun. I don't think anybody really thinks this is going to seriously effect Lion game planning. But it's a good exercise in team unity. Remember that was one of Kiff's points of improvement for the team. At the very first team meeting he asked all of the players to change seats and to get to know others on the team.
I know exactly who the starter will be. It will be the QB that Kiff thinks will have the best chance of bringing home a victory. That's all that matters.
The idea that Culpepper might be dumped prior to the 1st game for monetary reasons sounds possible, but very disturbing. With or without Russell, dumping Culpepper leaves us with only two QB’s, and neither is exactly lighting up the scoreboard. There has to be no doubt that Culpepper gives us the best chance of making the quickest turnaround, and should provide the smoothest transition to Russell, as well as being the kid’s mentor. So the thought of dumping Culpepper is very disturbing. Just pay him his money, win games and sell more tickets. Simple!
Oh yeah! I’m In!
There may be merit in this being simply a team unity exercise. But say McCown is starting. That would be bad enough news for Culpepper, without making him dance like a mime in front of the media, keeping it all a big secret. That might be a good way to turn his natural competitive disappointment into something more resentful.
Why even flirt with possibly messing with the heads of those who occupy what has become the most important, and most unstable, position on this team?
All for the opportunity to make the beat writers from the Santa Rosa Press Democrat and Davis Enterprise squirm a little?
There are better ways to build unity.
By the way, it pains me to write a negative take on my team on the eve of the new season.
However, this is THE story of the day right now, and I just for the life of me can't find any upside to it. This is the first thing we've done this year that reminds me of something we might have done last year.
If it is McCown there are two very logical reasons. First, while McCown threw no TD passes during the preseason, he also made no mistakes. Kiffin stresses above all else mistake free football.
Second, Kiff wants his team to play smart, but with emotion. McCown has something to prove against the Lions.
A win against the Lions is extremely important for the entire frachise and for Raider Nation. If we lose this game to a perenial bottom dweller, it puts a question mark with an exclamation point in front of our entire season, and then we're confronted with the donkeys in week two.
I don't believe there are any plans to release Culpepper. They might trade him, but they wouldn't release him. Atlanta would very likely be far more interested in Culpepper than Walter.
His incentive money doesn't kick in for just making the team, it kicks in if he's the starter.
I'd also advise that folks don't get too used to any player until after week six when the midseason trade deadline passes.
I can envision one or more of three things happening. The trade of Andrew Walter, the trade of Daunte Culpepper, the trade of one of the running backs.
None of the secrecy has anything to do with the Lions. Kiffin said himself that it didn't work for Georgia Tech last weekend. This is simply an exercise in team unity, and nothing more. The media is providing the rest.
I'm In!
Ok folks this is hilarious. The defending Super Bowl Champions are opening against the Saints tonight and the big story flying around at supersonic speed is the Raiders’ quarterback situation.
My favorite is at the following link:
http://www1.pressdemocrat.com/article/20070906/SPORTS/709060337/1015/SPORT0502
The reporter one Lowell Cohn, called Kiffin as a “Frat Boy” and referred to him as a “trainee” stating he needs to grow up. All because he wont tell them who the starter is. This is what I dislike about journalist. They think if they ask a question you are required by law to answer it. Funny thing is I don’t remember seeing that particular line in the First Amendment.
The self righteous pompous asses in the media think that everything exist because of them. Unless Kiffin is violating league rules he doesn’t have to tell them a damn thing. I can see it now, this Cohn guy will whine to the NFL about how he was mistreated and there will be another “Raider Rule”.
Seems I remember a few years ago a certain Denver coach lied to the league office about an injury to his quarterback. The injury occurred during the week and was not reported on the injury report required by the league. He tried to say it occurred during warm ups. Problem was the injured party came clean on the situation. I think that was the week leading up to one of their games against the Raiders.
That’s my soapbox lecture for the day.
H
Quick question Take.
How does this remind you of last year?
H
Why does this remind me of last year?
Because it's odd and at odds with rational football behavior. Remember how long it took us to even hire a head coach last year? Then we sent Mike Martz packing in favor of Tom Walsh. Then we buried Porter to the detriment of the team while rewarding Randy Moss. In that context, "hide the QB" would have fit right in.
Now we're a 2-14 team with a 32-year-old unproven head coach sitting on the longest draft holdout in 10 years.
This is no time to get cute and play "gotcha" with the media or the Detroit Lions (or Raiders fans, for that matter). Declare our leader and let's get on with it.
ruI completely disagree. To say that McCown and Culpepper are the same is ridiculous. With Culpepper, you don't worry so much about containment, but you better worry about the long ball. With McCown, you better guard the middle and the short options as well as contain him in the pocket. ALL coaches, given the opportunity, would also hold their cards close to the vest.
Re: cutting Culpepper once Russell is signed. Possibly, for any other team. But we're talking about the Raiders. The thought of Al Davis cutting a once-heralded veteran QB and leaving his QB crew down to McCown, a still-green 2nd year QB, and a rookie seems almost inconceivable.
Check this out:
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7194522?MSNHPHMA
Now, I hate FoxSports too, but the quotes by Ray Russell were interesting enough.
***************
"In a USA Today report, Ray Russell, JaMarcus' uncle and adviser, said the Raiders "realize they have dropped the ball, and they started negotiating in good faith.
"They've done more talking in the last week and a half than the previous three months. It's almost done.
"It's just a damn shame it's taken this long.""
Psycho
I couldn't agree with you more.
I neither understand nor like the game playing that is going on.
In my opinion, this is not the time to play games or to take on the media.
We need to concentrate on football here, and it should be the first and only priority.
As a proud member of the 12th man, along with about 65,000 others who will walk into the HOT ready to do their job and bring the noise, fooling with them is a big mistake.
Kiffin has told his players, now he should tell us. Most of us want Culpepper to start because we feel he earned the starting spot during the preseason competition.
If Kiffin leaves us with the hope that it will be Culpepper and then sends McCown out on the field, the fans will not be happy.
If it is going to be McCown, better to let us know now so that we can digest it a bit before kickoff. Maybe then it won't matter as much.
Name your starter and let's go to war.
Raider war, the Raider way!
Just my two cents...
~Ally
Take,
Ok, I see where you are coming from. But, come 4:00 Eastern, 1:00 Pacific the question will be answered. Three hours later we will know where we stand.
Until then I will be following my earlier prescription for Exploding Head Syndrome to get me through the next few days. If my liver holds up that is.
Maybe it is acting a little paranoid, or a little too cute. But, it's ok to be paranoid when people are out to get you.
I actually have a completely different theory that popped into my overactive imagination. But, it’s petty off the wall even for me, which is why I haven’t expressed it here.
My personal opinion is he should have gone ahead and announced, but since he didn’t I figured I would have a little fun with it. It sure has the press up in arms, and to me that’s a good thing.
Right now I see Raiders 23 Lions 9. Heavy emphasis on the run with Miller catching passes early to open up the intermediate to deep passes. I’m a little concerned about pass protection in the heat of the action, so I don’t want them to open up throwing. Allow the line to get into a rhythm so the left side doesn’t lapse into bad habits from last year.
I also want Kitna on his butt at least 4 times, with lots of hurries and knockdowns. Don’t let him breath. We have the talent on defense to do this.
H
NO Way Culpepper is cut or traded....McCown maybe and that would be a good reason to let him start so he can be showcased....but Culpepper is not going anywhere....pieriod....
RumRunner:
I am in compleate agreement....and just look at how much this has caused a stir in the Media and the fans....so just think how much it also affects the coaches who are trying to prepair for the games....and it's the first week of the season so teams are not as prepaired as they will be down the road....I thimk this is very disruptive and I love it....and if it can be used for 2-3 weeks than fine....Just Disrupt Baby!!!!...
Anything that distracts the artention of an opponet is a good thing....look....I fought in the arts until I was 45 and used distraction constantly....it's not efective against a seasoned oponet but it works very well against young guys who are still learning to react or how to Not react....set them up with one thought and come at them with a chang-up....and is that not what football is all about...."Miss-Direction"...."Iratic Kadence"....Hut....Hut.Hut....Hut....and the ball is hiked.....anything to disrupt....
PantyRaider....GamePlans!!!!
Eureka, a Raider blog that adds common sense to the discussion. I agree with everything you said. I am sick and tired of this cloke and dagger BS. Just win the freakin game baby. All of secrecy BS will not mean a thing if the Raiders go out a lay a big fat turd against the lowly Lions.
Ally Oop's got my back!
Admittedly, I was already a bit frustrated by the state of our QB situation.
The Broncos and Chargers have managed to groom their franchise quarterbacks WHILE fielding playoff-caliber teams.
Meanwhile, after four straight losing seasons, after suffering through Kerry Collins and Aaron Brooks, and the longest holdout in the NFL in 10 years, after pouring my heart, soul and finances in to following my team, they STILL won't tell me who our quarterback is.
I don't think it's clever or cool. I think it's lame.
Let's establish some vision and credibility at the QB position, effective immediately.
Take,
I feel your pain and basically I agree. Tell them who you're going to beat them with and then beat them. I just scratch my head and then use humor to deal with it.
I can't attend games, but I've shelled out a good bit of money over the years at my local bar (until the owner sold it without consulting me), and NFL Sunday Ticket.
At the sports bars I've taken a lot of abuse the last few years. It's time for payback.
When we put up a "W" this Sunday all this silly nonsense of the past week will be behind us and we can get on to the mules.
H
RT:
The wait will be over very soon Sunday....at 10:00am I will be sitting with a cold one watching Buffalo stampeed on Donkies....and at 1:00pm our dreams will be answered....one way or another...by one of two "QB"s....or maybe both....just be thankful for all the pre-game excitement that keeps all of us on the edge of our stools....and hope that excitement continues throughout the game and in the weeks to come....because that will be totally differant from last season when we all sat around in deep depresion eating all the "Crap" that was thrown at us....
PantyRaider....Crapin-on-da-Donkos!!!
Calm down, Take!
We don't watch football because of how serious it all is, we watch it because it's fun. We watch the Raiders because they are the most fun, and have been since Al Davis walked into Oaktown.
If Kiff is having a little fun, and spreading it among the team, "it neither breaks my leg, nor picks my pocket."
This has nothing to do with last year or Raider tradition. Are Raider fans just going to show up if they can see Culpepper, or if they can see McCown? No. They're going to go see the Raiders kick a little Lion butt which, after last year, will be the most fun of all.
There is no question that the Raiders, as a team, have worked their asses off for several months. They deserve a little levity at this point. "All work and no play" makes the Pirate a dull boy.
Take, you of all people should know that players play far better when they're having fun.
And if the Raiders don't play better when they're having fun, then explain the Mad Stork to me.
I guess I'm of the same opinion as the Lions; this is all just a minor annoyance to me. I agree it's strange, stupid even. Rediculous? Idunno, maybe. It all depends on Kif's true motives. An outrage? Nawwww.
I'm still scratching my head but I figure there must be a legitamate reason hidden somewhere.
I really think it has something to do with the "unknown" factor of Jamarcus being on the verge of signing, but not yet signed. They may just be hetitant to commit publically in case their expectations of the situation turns out to be false.
Psycho
what's all this talk about with-holding the starting qb's name not raider tradition?
i beg to differ. it is a raider tradition. it is the raider tradition of screwing the media, and bringing back the "mystique" of the team, keeping everyone (fans included) in a cloud of speculation. that my friend, is total raider tradition.
like i said before, i don't give a rip who the qb is, we better get the "w" at the end of the day, or you will have one bent raider fan.
i think it's humorous that the mediots hasn't thrown kiffin or the raiders a bone all offseason, and now the want kiffin and the raiders to throw them the bone; giving the raiders all the attention in the media because they won't. that is classic davis, and classic raider tradition.
so everyone, take a deep breath. it's not going to change how i root for the raiders come game day. rt, i'd feel screwed if they did this all season, and couldn't put together some "w's", then and only then, would it change how i rooted on game day.
i know i am extremely excited for this season of redemption; and i'm starting to convulse with the thoughts of dressing my son in his raider gear for the first game of the season, and start the "inheritance" tradition of oakland raider football with him.
RT:
Here is a "Donko" board that I have been posting on....Bronko Talk....it is getting interesting and now they refer to me in his post...and I am having fun with some of these guys....not such a bad site....you should check it out....it's a fun way to let off some of the steam that is brewing this season while waiting for the games to start....
http://www.broncotalk.net/
PantyRaider....PostinHateMail!!!
I would be surprised if the QB who has been told he is NOT starting is having fun being told to dance like a mime for the media and keep it all a big secret.
"Sorry, Daunte/Josh, you're gonna have to sit...By the way, do you mind if we keep it our little secret? I want to screw with the beat writer from the Davis Enterprise."
Daunte/Josh: "Ha, ha, ha, that's a good one, coach!"
Now, admittedly, I'm just cranky when it comes to the QB position and the Oakland Raiders.
We have mismanaged the position for four straight years, and our QB of the future still hasn't joined the team, and now we're acting cute and coy about our starter?
Trust me, the media aren't bothered one bit by this. They love it. It gives them just one more excuse to write Raider-hating articles, and it gives them a sense of power over the organization because they think the Raiders are reacting to them instead of just ignoring them and focusing on football.
If you really want to punish the media, act like they don't exist instead of taking their bait.
RT....
You know how MrDavis loves all the attention....so why not....we are about to make an anouncement about or new "QB" has just signed....expect it tonight or Friday....so why not keep the "Mediot"s attention and build the suspence....all the free publisity and the worst team in the NFL just won't go away....what other bad team can hold attention the way the Raiders can....I'm just loven it Baby.....
PantyRaider....Center-o-Attention!!!!
As much 'fun' as the media is having with this, they may have more 'fun' if we make a (rash?) decision and publically name a QB, only to suddenly make a QB change at the last minute if our plans didn't turn out to be the case.
Suddenly we would be "lost" and "incompetant" according to the media, even if the change were made for logical reasons. Now THAT, would remind me of the shell era (at least the media interpretation part of it).
Again, I'm not condoning the strangeness of it all. Just throwing out some possibilities and remaining open to them.
Psycho
Take:
The most logical argument you keep throwing out is about how this must make the QB who is not starting feel. My response is every man on the 53 man roster is a member of this team. A player who pouts is the player Kiffin never wants to start.
Remember what Kiffin said when they brought in Culpepper? He said he wanted to see if either Walter or McCown would start to pout, or keep competing like a man. Something that has been seriously lacking from this team over the last four years has been mental toughness. You can't bring back that toughness withoug exercising it a little.
Well, I give up, since everybody's so happy with our quarterback situation and don't mind this kooky little frosting on the proverbial cake, then I'm just going to take my toys and go home.
The players love it, the media are wounded, Mr. Davis got the attention he wanted, Russell's agents are panicking, the Lions are on their heels, and the fans who re-upped their season tickets after 2-14 can just wait until Sunday to learn who replaces Aaron Brooks.
We ought to try this hide the QB business more often, it's working so well. Now please excuse me, I have some toys to pick up.
BlandaRocked, let me clarify, I have no argument for "hide the QB" because it makes no sense to me. I only have responses to the various theories being thrown around to justify it (none of which I find convincing).
Please explain to me exactly how this is simply a matter of the team having fun and building unity, and how hiding the QB contributes to that?
Go Saints!!!! -Psycho
RT:
That's funny Bro....rarely are you disagreed with but please don't run off and pout....sometime you just have to argue your point from a differant perspective...
I think we are all too excited about the start of the season to let anything dampen our spitits....but loosing to the "PussyCats" will change all that....
Hay!...I even got a "Continue with the HaitMail from a "Donko" fan....now how strange is that....
PantyRaider....With-ya-Bro!!!!
Take:
This where I think the situation lies. Among our many problems over the last several seasons has been the media playing one player against another, or players against coaches, or coaches against players. Apparently the Shell/Porter feud was played by one of our favorite mediots for all it was worth.
I think, for Kiffin, this is an object lesson for what the media does when the players refuse to tell them anything. They get all apoplectic and start attacking everybody, and asserting as fact things they know nothing about. He's teaching the team that you can't get anywhere playing footsie with the press.
Kiffin comes from USC in the Los Angeles area, and is likely more familiar with media ways than anybody. Don't forget that the Trojans are the closest thing that LA has to a pro football team.
Now that McCown has been "confirmed" by the media, I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out to be Culpepper. Not because Kiffin changed up, but because it was Culpepper all along. If a player leaked that McCown was the starter, then Kiffin will know he still has some work to do on that front.
RT:
I'm with you on this one. We need to name our QB (I would like Daunte, but I'm inclined to believe it will be McCown) and get onto football. This is a huge sideshow. And if we are trying to stick it to the media, the only thing this is doing is fueling "the media."
This is a winnable game and we had better win. A win on opening day changes the whole season. Imagine the media if this little game of charades fails.
Roy
PantyRaider, it's my party and I'll cry if I want to!
Just to add, I don't think I've ever seen a coach as into team unity as Lane Kiffin. I've never seen any coach make object lessons the Kiffin does. He's taken pages from the movie, "Remember the Titans" and others. "Get up and sit next to somebody else who you've never sat next to before," is straight out of that movie.
The Raiders have always been the must famous for their "it's us against the world" attitude. Having a secret, any secret, that the players can share in while not having it escape the confines of the practice facility, is a step in that direction.
This little "game" that Kiffin is playing makes me respect him all the more, not less.
Oh, and for those folks who are inclined to blame Davis for not getting Russell signed, I'd like to point out that the point man is not Al Davis, but Kiffin's man, Mark Jackson.
Where is bama7, Scorpio, or whoever felt like all we did in here was agree with whatever RT says? lol
Seriously though, I'm playing the fence on this one. It could go any direction, just pick the theory that makes the most sense to you. The fact of the matter is nobody has any clue what is really going on. So none of us can really bash Kif (Raiders), get pissed, claim to know anything outside of McCown 'probably' starting week #1, or kiss the Raiders' collective S&B asses either. I get the feeling there is a complex, touchy situation 'a brewin' in Alameda right now. Hopefully the team can properly focus on the Lions.
Psycho
Russell signs late tomorrow night and starts the game on sunday. But before the game he wheels out Al in a wheelchair?
I am with everyone on this. This is not Kiff, but Al pulling the strings. Kiff would have never done this with any other football team. Never.
Glory to Al Davis
MR DUVA
Wuuuuaaazaa, whooo? I don't think anyone here thinks Al is pulling Kif's strings. Well maybe some people who haven't posted today. - Psycho
Schefter just said on NFL Network that Friday is the day the Raiders are scheduled to meet with Russell. I was hoping it was today, I've been checking the headlines all day.
Psycho
I'm still sticking to my opinion that this whole thing is silly.
BTW, for those who think this game is generating team unity, let me quote Jerry Mac: "...if Kiffin wants to keep his quarterback (and center) a secret, that's fine. But it put both Josh McCown and Daunte Culpepper in an awkward position they didn't want to be in, and there was some muttering in the locker room about how ridiculous the whole thing was.
It was the first hint of discontent I've noticed in the Kiffin locker room, although admittedly it was a minor annoyance and will be long forgotten the moment the ball is kicked off Sunday."
I'll be at the game no matter who the quarterback is. Somebody bumped their head if they think the majority of us die-hard, original season ticket holders only go if so-and-so is the quarterback. We've been there through the good times and the horrendous times, through good coaches and bad coaches, and through good quarterbacks and some pretty bad quarterbacks.
That, in and of itself, earns me the right to my opinion. I'm sticking with it no matter who thinks it's cute and cool for Kiffin to play his game.
Show me the game you play on the battlefield first. (insert smiley face here)
~Ally
Bama7
Hey Psycho, I too have been watching the news all day hoping to see the signing... dammit Al get it done you senile old bat! Can we not get our franchise QB in here? Are we that freakin lame? Why quivel over a few million dollars when the cap goes up and up and up and we are in dire need of a franchise QB.
Look at the colts, they have Peyton. The Patriots have Brady. The Titans, Young. If we think this guys the real deal then get him in here and let him be our QB FOR THE NEXT TEN YEARS. Ten years of stability at QB... can you imagine. The longer we wait the more we hurt his career. And if we ruin this opportunity then we're back to square freakin one!
Oh well.
I agree totally with RT on the QB guessing game. It is out and out lame, unless it's all about not naming Culpepper only to cut him if Russell signs. That's the only thing that makes sense in all this. For me, everything was going great and then we didn't bring in any competition for Sam Williams (unless Clemons plays there), then we cut Huntley, then we cut moses... we still can't sign Russell and now we won't name a QB. It just sets us up[ to look stupid later. All was great but we're sliding back to last year... Al is the problem. Trust me as to this.
Bama
Amen to most of that! Obviously I can't go as far as blaming Al, you know how it is. I thought for sure you would respond to my 12:13 post above showing Ray Russell's quote. You'd appreciate it for sure.
I'd like to note that Sam Williams looked pretty damn good this offseason, to me anyway.
Psycho
Like some of you, I'm really on the fence with the importance of this QB thing. Probably not as critical as Take himself, but maybe not as caviler with the situation as Blanda.
Not sure why the secrecy and not sure what it really accomplishes. I’m just worried that a deal is in the works that might send Culpepper packing. That would not be good right now. Otherwise, why wouldn’t Culpepper be a lock to start?
It really shouldn’t have anything to do with Russell, who will certainly get a roster exemption if he signs. And if Culpepper still isn’t ready to play then, by the same standard, Russell won’t be ready anytime this year.
8pm EST and the season is about to kickoff. How commercial can the NFL and ABC get? It’s not a football game, it’s a rock concert. Jeeeez!
From the Pirate's mouth:
"You look at it as this way. If you gain a competitive advantage, great. If you don't, it didn't matter, you weren't going to get anyway," Kiffin said. "That's all it is."
Psycho
Call it stupid, immature, inexperienced, genious, or just plain nothing at all. Whatever you want. But I don't take Kif for a liar. And that's what he seems to think about it.
Psycho
www.oaklandraiderblog.blogspot.com
Bama7
Psycho, I did see your 12:13 post and cringed... I was thinking "damn Uncle Ray, don't piss Al off, you'll never get your boy signed with comments like that!"
As for Williams I'm hoping he ends up like Namdi... finally showing us something.
Bama7
Hey Tooz, another way to look at alternating QB's is the old saying, "If you have TWO Qb's then you have no QB"
Well...I watched the first quarter...that's about all I could stay tuned for....just can't get excited about some other team when all I want to see is my Raiders play....
The Colts are going to be a very tough game if they stay healthy....glad we don't play them until 12-16....by than we should be at our peak....or totally out of it....or maybe they will rest their players and we can "Just Win Baby"....
JohnGruden....
Off the subject but the scutlebut on the radio is that he is the #1 candidate for 2 college coaching jobs....NortraDame-n-Michigan....is he job hunting while under contact again....the other word is he is about to be fired by the "Buck"s.....now wouldn't that be funny....i'm glad we got CoachKiffen and not that scrub....he ran the "Buck"s into the gutter....
PantyRaider.....RaiderFootball!!!!
One last observation. This is not the first time this has been done. It certainly won’t be the last. However, it didn’t work out too good for Notre Dame last Saturday. But what I find most curious is, I don’t remember Charlie Weis being raked over the coals by the press and being called “Frat Boy” and “trainee” as Lowell Cohn called Kiffin for doing exactly the same thing. Cohn probably doesn’t have the guts to do it to Weis.
One needs only to read the article to see Cohn is a true hater in the purest since of the word. In fact, Cohn probably thinks Weis is a genius.
This is why I say anything to tick off the press is a good thing.
H
H
True...so true...
On the Gruden rumor. He must be in the last year or two of his contract. That's the same crap his agent pulled in Oakland.
His name was mentioned with every college job in the country. Florida was one and there were others. It's one of the reasons a very good offer was pulled off the table.
H
I really don't see what the big deal is with the QB secrecy- how does it hurt us, really?
It seems like the only reason that people are upset about this is that they have picked who their favoite QB is (most seem to have picked Culpepper) and are upset that there is a chance that the other QB will be named the starter. As long as we get the QB on the field that gives us the best chance to win on Sunday, I don't care who it is.
If McCown starts and lights up the Detroit defense for big numbers, will you still be fuming that Culpepper got "snubbed"? We can all sit around and say who we think looked the best in preseason, but how many of us have been to every practice and watched all of the reps? How many of us know the system in place for both the offense and defense so well that we can make a better call as to who should play and be on the team?
Are the media killing us about not naming the starter and calling Kiffin a fool?
Yes.
Would they be killing us and calling Kiffin a fool if we had named a starter, regardless of who it is?
Yes.
Every bit of speculation that I've heard from the "sports experts" on radio, TV and the internet has us pegged as either the worst or in the bottom 3. The Lions are somehow gaining steam as the new media darlings for a sleeper team to watch this season.
Vegas has us as a 2 to 2.5 point favorite to win on Sunday. Home field generally gives you 3 points, but for the first game of the season no oddsmaker will give a home team the full three. They generally give less than 2.
ESPN and FOX can talk all they want about how poor the Raiders look, but Vegas doesn't like to lose money. I don't think they seem too worried about our QB situation, and neither should we.
Oh by the way- I'm in.
And cheer up RT and the rest of you. Just think of this as the nervous agitation of a thoroughbred in the gate. As soon as the bell rings, I think we'll see it taking powerful strides on it's way to a great finish.
Maybe we can name the horse "Minty Fresh".
:)
H:
Exactly right....people seem to forget that there was an offer on the table before Gruden was snubed my MrDavis when he took money off the table....and I fully agree....it was because Gruden was looking at other jobs....he might think he could push MrDavis for more money that way but instead he was sold to the highest bidder like an "Auction Pig"....so now he try's his little game with the "Bucks"....I hope they show some "Coholey"s and slap the basterd....
So now that's the same thing we see with the agents of "JRus" today....sign the damn offer or money comes off the table....
RT
I think we have been aproaching the "QB" thing compleatly wrong....that includes me...I was watching an old interview with John Madden and I can see what Kiffen is doing....similar to what Madden did....
Madden had 3 rules....#1....Be on time....#2..Pay Attention....#3..go play your hearts out when I tell you to and leave everything on the field...and that is what the players did for him....
So now look at Kiffen....when AlDavis gave him to us he said this man will lead us back to greatmess....Kiffen than said that he would elevate the compition on the team and no job would be safe...the player has to earn a roster spot and the starting job...
Did he say this compition would stop the last week of the preseson and every job would be written in stone....NO....he is going to continue the compition right thru the season....hit the players where it hurts....their "Pride"....so now along comes the "Mediot"s telling CoachKiffen he has to stop the compition and name the strting "QB" and all they get is "Silence"....but silence is golden...yes it is...
So now every player is aware that their starting job is up for compition...stumble and your job will belong to another....so a player says "This is my job and no one is going to take it from me"....so now they will go out and play their hearts out when CoachKiffen tells them to and they will leave everything on the field....as should be....and they will be on time and listen too....
ArtShell tried to accomplish that last year just by his mere presance....but that no longer motivates today's player....only "Pride-n-Money" are their motavators....so we needed a young coach who understands the new way....
Also this could have resulted in some of the older players being told to move on....maybe some of them could not buy into the constant compition....it has nothing to do with being older than the coach....just their perspective of the game....but a player like Sapp who has a great deal of pride responded by comming into camp "Slim-n-Fit" and ready for business.....
So now who do we blame for this....well MrDavis of cource....that dirty old owner gave us a fiery young coach and than is allowing him to mistreat the players by elevating compition and holding their jobs over their heads....that dirty old owner is allowing Kiffen to force every player to earn his contract....and there is no doubt that it's Kiffen making these decisions because that dirty old owner is too old and out of touch with modern football to have done this.....that "Bad..Bad..Old Man"....time has pased him by so why dosen't he just swallow his pride and step down and let a younger man run this team....
Oh!....I forgot....that's why were mad at the old man....for letting a younger man run this team....
ThankYou CoachKiffen for putting "Commitment" back in the Raider language.....ThankYou for bringing back the "Pride" in our slogan "Pride-n-Poise"....and now please fulfill your destiny and bring back the "Wins" in our slogan "Just Win Baby"....
PantyRaider....TrueBeliever!!!!
Does anyone know if the game will be on tv yet? I heard sumpin' about extending the time limit to sell enough tix to call it a sellout? I guess the only games that will be on tv will be the away games.
the game's on tv. its a sellout.
Anyone know where I can get a use Star Trek transporter so I can attend home games? I don’t think I can afford a new one.
Oh well, at least I have my Sunday Ticket.
H
From Steve Corkran-
“... Russell stands to lose 1/17th of whatever his salary would be for each week he misses once the regular season begins.”
I predict Russell signs by the deadline to get his game pay, because at the end of the day, it’s all about money (and it always has been).... what a shame!
“... the Raiders are obligated to pay veteran quarterback Daunte Culpepper $3.2 million if he is on the roster as of Saturday night. They owe Culpepper only $750,000 if he is released before then. “
Even Jerry Mc is suggesting it’s possible the Raiders have someone in line to acquire one of their three QB’s. The QB secrecy makes total sense if Culpepper and/or McCown are on the trading block.
Another report is that the Raiders are $15 million below the salary cap. That's a big number and certainly enough to accommocate Russell, Culpepper and McCown, if such a luxury appeals to the big guy.
What Corkran said about what is owed Culpepper can also be said about McCowan and Walter. The numbers just might not be as high. In another 38 hours this will all probably be a moot point.
PantyRaider, Kiffin is also being allowed to mistreat those poor helpless reporters.
Need some help here – Does anyone know where I can download an MPEG file of the Autumn Wind for my laptop?
H
Anyone know where I can watch the game in Minneapolis? (have to travel for work that day :-()
Regarding Brayton/Moses, Kiff said he wanted to see who was learning (i.e., could be taught). Preseason and camp let him see that.
Regarding qb 'secrecy', With Daunte we have a limited play set we can use. Josh gives us the whole playbook for the most part. Daunte should catch up eventually, but for now we want to use the whole playbook. That said, it would be funny if every thinks it's going to be Josh, and we roll out Daunte :-) Better yet, let Walter start!
-BamaRaider
Interesting what Davis said yesterday. He said, when asked who he felt the starting QB should be, that the QB was in Mobile.
Interesting position for Davis to take, since I have been assured by many here that Russell was Kiffin's pick and Davis has been doing everything in his power to sabatage the contract negotiation. Even though the point man for those negotiations is Kiffin's man, Jackson, and not Davis.
But, I guess it still makes sense because we all know that Davis, the bumling old fool, has been doing everything in his power to make every head coach since he stepped down a loser. So there is absolutely no question that, if the Raiders lose on Sunday, it will be Davis' fault.
And now we have a problem with Kiffin. How dare he abuse those poor reporters. After all, they're just trying to do their job. Like last year when when Nancy Gay would go to Porter and tell him all of the nasty things that were being said by Shell behind his back, then turning around and doing the same thing with Shell. What are reporters for if not for stirring up a little news?
And Kiffin doesn't realize the horrible damage he's doing to the team. Last season we all knew that the offense could walk and chew gum at the same time, and this year Kiffin is attempting to have them keep a secret. How can you keep a secret and practice all at the same time? What a distraction! No wonder Culpepper and McCown were seen sitting next each other on a bench in the locker room, holding back their tears.
Enough of all this talk of trying to return the team to winning ways. Never at the expense of having to release or trade a QB who probably won't be on the team next year anyway. No other owner in the NFL would be so evil. Winning isn't important, but playing MY favorite QB is.
Oh, well. Another season down the toilet - BECAUSE OF AL F'ING DAVIS!!!
The Colts looked pretty dominant last night, eh?
I'll give the Colts this: As far as AFC and Super Bowl Champions go, they're not nearly as annoying as the Steelers or Patriots.
Is there anything more self-righteous than a Patriots fan? They don't seem to be aware that the NFL existed before the year 2002.
Then there is Steelers fan, who proliferated in my town for about a nine month period, approximately January of 2006 through about the time the Raiders spanked them in October. The Steelers have some serious fair weather fans.
But the Colts and their fans, they go about their business without too much self-righteousness or fair weather.
We'd better not be getting rid of Culpepper.
If we can pay Jerry Porter to wear street clothes, we can pay Daunte Culpepper and Josh McCown to hold the fort while Russell sits until at least 2008.
H
There's Raider stuff all over the Internet. Just Google what you want and you should be able to find it. Seems to me that RT has a link to get the Raiders' Theme downloaded as a ringtone on your cell phone.
I've been told that Kiffin is one of those guys who likes to script the first 15 or so plays. Well, I'll tell ya, if a reporter asks Kiffin or the players what those 15 plays are going to be, they have to tell the press. Asking the players to keep that a secret could be a horrible distraction.
Sorry, RT, but we're losing perspective here. I just don't see the controversy.
The Power and The Glory CD by NFL Films has the Autumn Wind and a lot of other NFL classics. You can get it for ten bucks on Amazon.com. Essential listening.
bama7
Blanda, c'mon man. Al went both ways on Huff last year and eventually took credit for Gannon a few years back too... AFTER gannon had made a name for himself with us. You never know what he's gonna say. No one can figure the guy out.
If he wants Jemarcus so badly he has the power to sign him, right? Everyone says Russell is greedy, what about Al? Al's saving 4 million but throwing away the kid's entire year (and salary) with this neededless holdout... so we ain't saving 4 million. We're losing this year. And yes, the kid could have played this year... look around... Walter, McCown, Culpepper with 3 new ligaments... Russell could have played. So in the end, we have lost money.
RT- Manning looked great. See what a franchise QB can do for your team? Also thought Addai looked great. You can see why they weren't afraid to lose Rhodes.
Bama7
read this, Blanda...
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=jackson/070906&sportCat=nfl
Bill Walsh scripted his plays and kept that information in house. He did not keep Joe Montana a secret. There's a big difference.
I have absolutely zero tolerance with any monkey business regarding the QB position. Zero.
The team that thought it could rehab Kerry Collins and Aaron Brooks, that mistook Andrew Walter for Matt Leinart, that didn't fully negotiate with Russell in advance of the draft per standard operating procedure, that simply got lucky with Culpepper being available, that rejected Josh McCown last year but now thinks he's worthy of leading a turnaround...suddenly has a big secret at the position?
Tell me you wouldn't be laughing if the Lions rolled into town keeping it a big secret whether Kitna or Orlovsky was starting on Sunday?
Kiffin himself said he's doing it for a competitive advantage. Since that's patently absurd, everyone here is doing mental gymnastics to come up with a sensible reason for why, out of 32 NFL teams, our team suddenly discovered this innovative approach to building team unity, gaining a competitive advantage and bringing a draftee to his knees.
The best argument I've heard is that the table is being set to get rid of McCown or Culpepper because Russell is close to signing. Unfortunately, if that happens, I'll be royally pissed.
Now this one is a classic.
http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/ordine/blog/2007/09/oakland_head_coach_lane_kiffin.html
By keeping his QB a secret, Kiffin is setting up exactly the kind of numbers scandal that plagues the NBA. Why, the man is a criminal!
Bama7:
Huh? Where did you hear that Al is saving 4 million by not signing Russell before the season starts? The way I see it, he's losing 10 million because Russell will now be confined to the bench for at least a year. Davis is not a stupid business man. In spite of the fact that the team is in the bottom tier of the league money makers, Davis has been able to keep the team in the top tier of winners (the last four years excluded, but all teams eventually go through such phases). The smart question is what does Davis gain by giving up the value of that 10 million.
Anthony Carroll at realfooball365.com is fairly high on the Raiders winning this Sunday. His basic reasoning is our DB’s match up well with their receivers while we also have a better pass rush and better overall speed on defense.
He is also quick to point out that the starting Detroit CB’s have a combined five years experience with zero interceptions while only standing 5’ 11”. Our receivers are not only taller, but also faster than their CB’s.
I also did a little checking, and while Kitna threw for over 4,000 yards and 21 TD’s he also had 22 interceptions. Remember, a lot of his passing yardage was due to being behind so much because of a 28th ranked defense.
Even though we had a pathetic offense in terms of scoring, time of possession – well everything, out defense only gave up 332 points a full 66 fewer than the Lions.
Hopefully this will lighten the load a bit while we await the next installment in who’s the quarterback.
As for Kifin being a criminal, if that's so then they better arrest Charlie Weis for last Saturday and that clown in Denver for lieing to the league about an injured QB.
Also, I've found a video, but it's MP4 and I don't have a proper player on my laptop.
I'll keep looking, thanks.
Blandarocked
H
You're rewriting history, RT. First off, a secret is a secret, and one isn't any more of a distraction than any other.
They did negotiate with Russell prior to the draft. In fact they negotiated with both Quinn and Russell. And at the time, the Raiders said they had no problem with paying guaranteed money at 27 million beyond or a reasonable amount over that. What the Raiders have had trouble with since camp was the extent of the guarantee (making Russell unaccountable - a big no-no from Kif's book) and extending the guarantee beyond 4 million more.
They didn't simply get lucky with Culpepper, they wanted to bring him in as soon as they understood he'd be available. Miami wanted too much in trade for a QB that the Raiders believed would be off the team by 2008.
Yes, I'd laugh if the Lions did the same thing, but it would be rediculous to suggest that, barring injury, the starter would be anyone other than Kitna. Between McCown and Culpepper, as the situation stands, it's a genuine question.
The Raiders didn't reject McCown last year. They made him offer, and he signed with the Lions. He rejected the Raiders.
Kiffin didn't say that he's using the secret as a competitive advantage. The media did. When asked specifically if that was the reason his response was to say that it didn't work for Notre Dame last weekend. Then when asked why he was keeping it a secret he said, "because I don't want to tell you."
Is there a reason for it? Probably. It doesn't seem like this group is in to just playing pointless little games, although you seem to disagree. But I like what Kif and Davis have put together so far. I'm in, whether or not I'm told every little thing.
Rewriting history?
I said we did not "fully" negotiate with Russell, and we didn't, otherwise there wouldn't have been a holdout.
McCown signed with Detroit last year because whatever the Raiders might have offered him wasn't as attractive as going to the Detroit Lions. Couldn't have been too great of an offer, eh?
If Miami had kept Culpepper (and they should have) or traded him to another team, we'd be screwed right now. That's not a plan, that's luck.
Direct quote from Kiffin: “It’s simply a matter of always trying to gain a competitive advantage,” Kiffin said. See Associated Press story dated September 6.
Re Culpepper, teams recognize there will be a lack of trade interest and an eventual release all the time. But when the Raiders do it, and it works out, you call it luck?
McCown... You seem to have forgotten that there were several players who came in and out of Oakland last year, and pretty much all of them other than Aaron Brooks decided to go somewhere else. McCown went to Detroit because they pretty much guaranteed that he'd start. He was given no such assurance in Oakland.
So you're taking Kiffin at his word that it's for a competitive advantage. I thought you were of the mind that says he's doing it because of anticipated trade of McCown or Culpepper.
Whether you chose to acknowledge it or not, there IS a huge difference between McCown's game and Culpepper's. You don't prepare for them the same way. With Culpepper you constantly have to watch your ass deep, and with McCown you have to protect the corners. It's a mistake to just try and colapse the pocket.
As for me, I think he's doing what I suggested yesterday. He's giving an object lesson in team unity, and he's demonstrating exactly why you don't play out team issues through the media, which got to be a problem last year.
BR, I agree.
There is nothing like a little conspiracy to make for a united front. We get to start the season with an inside joke. Again, love it!
I hope Josh gets the start and I hope he holds the job until Russell is ready. Can't help it. The guy grew up 20 miles from me and reminds me of every Texas High School Quarterback I've seen. Warms my heart.
Autumn Wind:
Here it is with a video....this is the same as I have on my "History-o-da-Raiders" DVD...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1414183115323448274
If you do a Google search "Autumn Wind" several sites will come up....sometimes what you have to do is click "Save target" so it can be saved to the hard drive...than later when you are off line you can open it and save it in a differant format....
Let the Hitting begain....by Golly....we are so amped up we are really ready for a fight....bring on the "PussyCats" so we don't explode on each other....Ha! Ha!
"Mediot Abuse"....by Golly....I hope it continues....
Just another something out of the realm of total stupidity....as you have all seen the entire NFL is alway copying what the Raiders and their fans do-n-say.....like trying to ba a "Naition"....saying "Baby" with their statments....but now the "Donko"s are calling fans who don't like them.....are you really ready for this....the "Haters"....
The "Hater"s.....their the damn "Hater"s along with all the other dumb bastards who try to stick a knife in our organization....but now they are calling a "Cheif"s fan a "Hater"....now how sick is that....next they will call me a "Hater"....Hu!....I'm just poken a little fun.....
PantyRaider....da-Hater!!!!!
Let's review:
I said:
"Kiffin himself said he's doing it for a competitive advantage. Since that's patently absurd, everyone here is doing mental gymnastics to come up with a sensible reason for why, out of 32 NFL teams, our team suddenly discovered this innovative approach to building team unity, gaining a competitive advantage and bringing a draftee to his knees."
You said:
"Kiffin didn't say that he's using the secret as a competitive advantage. The media did."
I said:
"Direct quote from Kiffin:'It’s simply a matter of always trying to gain a competitive advantage.'"
Then you say:
"So you're taking Kiffin at his word that it's for a competitive advantage. I thought you were of the mind that says he's doing it because of anticipated trade of McCown or Culpepper."
Huh?
I'm of NO MIND as to why we are playing secret agent. It makes no sense to me. I have only responses to the many various theories posted here as to why we are doing this.
The only one of these theories I find remotely convincing or rational would be that there's a trade or release in the works.
As for luck, yes, I call it luck. Show me one other team whose "plan" was to wait until August 1 to build the top of their QB depth chart on the premise that a capable player would not only be available, but would sign with them instead of someone else.
I know many of you think I've gone off my rocker here. That could be true.
But we've been running with scissors on the QB front for four years, with predictable results.
How about just putting the scissors down and playing football, not mind games with the media, the Detroit Lions or whoever else this stuff is supposed to impress?
I can see it now: When the Raiders win on Sunday, everyone who has agreed that this isn't being done for a competitive advantage will say, "See, it worked, we got a competitive advantage!"
RT
The Raiders were on the Radar for Culpepper early on but said they were not interested.....but it turns out they were interested...so they were not interestd in a trade or in compeating at a high price when other teams were trying to sign him to longer term contract than he wanted....but when the opertunity was right the Raiders jumped on him....what a deal....
Is that luck....maybe....it's just like wanting to but something on e-bay....so you let it get bid up but the sale falls thru....so you conyinue to watch....it's relisted and this time there is not much attention....so at the last min you jump a bid and win....is it luck or just good antisipation and business....
PantyRaider....HappyBiden!!!!
RT
Did you reed my interpretation...10:27pm....
I think it keeps the compition going between the players and makes them continue to compete all season and not lay down and relax....the "O" needs something to kick them in the ass and make them play every down....the "Mediot"s want a name but Kiffen won't stop the compition by giving them the name....
PantyRaider....ConstantCompitition!!!
I won't say that, RT. I'll say "what the f*%k difference did it make. Kiff's got his own reasons, and his decisions have been quality so far."
Panty:
I agree that that is very likely a very big part of it. When Kif came in he said he was going to bring back competition within the team itself, and that "everything you do is important." I would assume, in fact I would expect, that that standard would prevail through out the season. Not just in camp or in preseason games. And if the starting QB is never safe, nobody on the team is ever safe. I can't think of any better way to insure that players "leave it all on the field."
Maybe Kiffin's plan was to get all of us Raiders fans riled up. If so, it worked. I have to admit, it's been fun. Best of all, it's helped the days go by faster as we approach Sunday, relieving some of that "head-exploding" pressure of anticipation.
Added:
I also think what applies to McCown, Walter, and Culpepper equally applies to Russell. Consider that Kiffin may have told Jackson, "I know Russell's going to be expensive, but unless I think he represents our best chance to win, he's going be on the bench. I want him to be just as accountable as every other member of this team. No SCHOLARSHIPS!" I think that could weigh very large in how the negotiations have progressed, and it fits in with how Kiffin has said he wants to run this team.
Has anybody seen anything about a "Press Conferance" yet....I am expecting to hear something today if we are going to get "JRus" signed before Sunday....
PantyRaider....Searchin!!!
I found this so if it's true we can forget about the team F&%Ken with Culpepper....
"There were rumors on Thursday that the Raiders were going to play hardball with Daunte Culpepper, who will be the backup quarterback on Sunday behind Josh McCown, and ask him to reduce his $3.2 million contract, thus freeing up more money for Russell. However, the Raiders have no intention of messing with Culpepper, who remains a favorite of owner Al Davis."
PantyRaider....Culpepperrrrrr!
Take, I agree with the running with scissors analogy, but with the upgrades in talent at quarterback and coaching I think the scissors have been safely put in a drawer and locked away.
Blandarocked, I got what I needed on the video. I found a free Quicktime player that would play it. Thanks for helping.
On a personal note, I have a request for all of you guys who will be at the game.
I have a friend whom I’ve corresponded with over the internet for six or seven years. He and I had several common interests and among them were beer and the Raiders. He lived in Iowa. He was an older fan like me. Anyway, he and I discussed the ups and downs of the Raiders and over the years he convinced me to start brewing my own beer. His name was Lloyd.
A little less than a year ago he told me he had cancer. Several months ago the emails stopped and mine to him were returned “non existent address”. It seems the cancer won.
So, if you don’t mind, would you dedicate your first beer on Sunday to Lloyd. I know I will.
H
Panty - the press conference is taking place right now!
I'm just messing with you. No, I'm looking every 5 minutes.
Psycho
Psycho:
That's funny....I was just about tempted to get in my old PU and drive the 200 miles to Alameda Isl so I could hang-out in front of the practice facility and spy....field glasses and all....like a bird watcher....any "JRus"es walkin about.....
PantyRaider.....IndangeredSpicies!!!
I have feeling that PFT might be right regarding JRuss. His agents told JRuss' family that the Raiders are caving so that Russell isn't tempted to fire them and follow Bratton.
Starting Saturday night, game check amounts start coming off the table.
Who's PFT? - Psycho
Profootballtalk.com
Have any of you heard of this rule about unsigned draft picks?
http://www.insidebayarea.com/raiders/ci_6825615
This line of the article in particular:
"If Russell remains unsigned, they run the risk of his re-entering the NFL draft next year. At that point, the Raiders would be ineligible to draft him and would not receive any compensation."
That is a mighty big turd in the punchbowl if we can't get him signed.
Such is the value of profootballtalk.com. While they make guesses just like the media does, their guesses make sense.
Because Kiffin wasn't revealing the starting QB, and because Russell's uncle said that the Raiders "realized they dropped the ball" and would cave at any moment, the local and national media morphed those two stories into Culpepper being on the trade block and Russell signing before Sunday.
PFT's latest, confirmed by officials in Oakland, says that no signing for JaMarcus is immenent. They have also reported that any idea of trading Culpepper is absurd.
While I've often disagreed with PFT, they have good track record (not perfect, but good). Earlier, when they reported that they believed that Russell might have interest in changing to Bratton because he was dissatisfied with the negotiations, it made further sense when they suggested that Metz and company may have told Russell's family a little white lie to keep them in the fold. That Davis was coming around any day now.
You want to see some pressure put on Russell? That will happen if either McCown or Culpepper begin to light up NFL scoreboards. You want to see some pressure put on Davis? That will happen if they don't.
I'm referring to the "ineligible to draft him" part.
I don't know about the inelligable to draft him part. But you'd have to consider, why would they want to? If they couldn't come to an agreement after negotiating for a year, one would think that things would be too hostile. Most likely somebody else in the division would take a shot at him, for the emotional value. That would only happen if Coyle, Rivers, or what's-his-face in Denver faultered.
It's true that we'd come up emty for the 2007 pick, except for the fact that we'd save a hell of a lot of money that could be used to shore up Culpepper's or McCown's contracts, Burgess, Asumaguha, or picking up a free agent.
If Culpepper and/or McCown turn out to be the real deal (i.e., Jim Plunkett) then we can afford to lose the pick altogether. That's why the real pressure on the Raiders starts if neither Culpepper nor McCown can do the job.
I wouldn't expect that if the Raiders wanted to, and he was available with one of their picks, that they couldn't draft him just the same as anybody else. What I think is meant by that statement is that the Raiders would not recover their #1 overall pick from 2007. But Russell wouldn't be the #1 overall pick again after failing to negotiate a contract. Only a fool would do that. But then there would have to be some reason that team had the #1 overall pick.
If Russell were drafted #1 next year, can you imagine the money he'd demand then?
"I was the #1 overall draft pick two years in a row!"
Oh, the stupity of any team that would put themselves in that position.
That's the thing, it specifically said "ineligible" as in no wriggle room, no splitting semantic hairs, we could not draft him again, period. I've known about the no compensation part, its the ineligible to draft part that was new to me.
Also I heard we can't trade Russell's rights until after the season. So that would leave very little time to get a deal done before he re-enters the next draft. Now we can't re-draft him?!? F^#$@! Of coarse, lets hope that is becoming irrelivent as we speak:
****************
Al: "So what the hell you your problem now? I offered a fair ammount, and I agreed to compromise on the options!"
Russell Camp: "We want to see about getting this $3 mil up to $4 mil on this option here {pointing}."
Al: "Bastards! How about $3.5 mil?"
Russell Camp: "Where do we sign?!?!"
Al: "IN BLOOD, RIGHT HERE! You better win, or I'm gonna be pissed!"
*******************
And we all lived hapilly ever after.
Psycho
Here's something on Russell boys....
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3008825&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines
I'm just checking in and half expected you guys to have more of an update.
From Jerry McDonald earlier today–
“No sign of director of football development Mark Jackson, who is usually at practice but is believed to be nearing a conclusion to working out a contract with quarterback JaMarcus Russell.”
Well....What's up!!!!
Some say no news is good news but this is killing me....
So what the hell are they going to do....wait until 11:30pm tomorro night to anounce that "JRus" has....
Well...That would be kinda funny....abuse the "Mediot"s by making them work after hours....and why not....but that would have to be blamed on Kiffen....MrDavis wants to be on "PrimeTime" so he would have it at 10:00pm instead....
I will say this for serious....I do not remember a year that there was so much preseason excitment as what we have had this year...but the suspense is just killing me....bring on the game so I can just relax....
Too maney questions....Who's the "QB"....Who's the "C"....When will "JRus" sign....Who's #1 "WR"....What's the "O" going to look like....Can the "OL" play well...Can the "O" run the ball....Can the "D" stop the run....Can I please have another beer....
PantyRaider....HappyHour!!!
My prediction for Sunday.
Raiders 24-17.
The Raiders will run a pure dink 'n' dunk, with a lot of running. Jordan will get over 100 yards, but less than 4.0 yards per carry.
The TD difference will be from an interception return or a special teams score.
If McCown is the starter, the Raiders will not have a TD pass but will score twice on the ground. If it's Culpepper, there will be one TD through the air.
You can't get a more detailed prediction than that.
I'll add one thing. In victory, Kiffin will say at his post game press briefing, "We still have a lot of work to do. We're still not running the ball as effectively as we think we can, and the OL still needs improvement stopping the pass rush."
One more add:
Our conversation here next week will be to continue with the McCown or Culpepper debate, with the added wrinkle of bringing Jordan into the discussion - wondering if we have a better choice.
Let's hope a deal gets done in the next 24 hours because after that all bets are off. Once the season starts there is a far greater likelihood of Russell reentering the draft.
I really believe that although we could negotiate up to I believe week 10 with Russell, that if we don't sign him very soon all hope is lost on getting a deal done in the midst of the season.
It would be a complete waste of a #1 pick with zero compensation.
As I've said numerous times on previous posts, it would be career suicide for Russell not to sign. He would lose close to $20M by reentering the draft plus he would be out of football for 1 year which would kill his career development.
If Russell reenters the draft he is looking at being picked up somewhere as high as the #10 pick and as low as the bottom of the 1st round.
Yes, having a ton of cap space is nice but having a franchise type QB locked up for the next 5+ years and having our QB position stablilized and sorted out would be a hell of a lot better.
I predict pain & suffering for the Lions.
Psycho
Speaking of predictions. On NFL Network, Rod Woodson predicted the Raiders to be the only team to score 41+ points this weekend (more than the Colts).
Psycho
Russell Update!
http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d802233bb&template=with-video&confirm=true
Psycho
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