The Six-Year Snow Job
In what turned out to be an exercise in magnificent timing, a Patriots fan waltzed into Raider Take a few weeks ago, wagging his finger at the Raider Nation while, of course, wielding the superior tone that has become endemic to the Patriots fan base. This was shortly before the Patriots were caught conducting illegal surveillance on the New York Jets. Since then, we’ve found a cure for the illness known as Patriot Fan Smugness, and it’s called Bill Belichick. Live by the sword, die by the sword.
But let’s back up a bit. When the Patriots fan tried to carpet bomb the Raider Nation here at Raider Take, Calico Jack of Silver & Black Forever put things into perspective for him:
Google any team with a rich history and you will find that winning and losing seasons are cyclical. This includes teams like the Cowboys, Steelers, Niners, Raiders, Patriots etc. It took the Patriots 41 years to win their first Super Bowl. You are in the midst of a nice run in this decade. Enjoy it since it won
Here are the relevant facts on both franchises:
Regular Season Record:
Patsies 350/341/9
Raiders 400/302/11
Playoff Record:
Patsies 19/12
Raiders 21/17
Divisional Titles:
Patsies 10
Raiders 15
Conference Championships:
Patsies 5
Raiders 5
SB Appearances:
Patsies 5
Raiders 5
SB Victories:
Patsies 3
Raiders 3
In every single category the Raiders are tied or superior to your beloved Patsies. It is easy for you to toot your team
The problem with Patriots fans is that they think the NFL didn’t exist before 2001 and, as a result, they are utterly self righteous. Consider that the Colts have been to the playoffs in six of the last seven seasons, culminating in a Super Bowl victory earlier this year, but their fans seem to have a lot more perspective on their team’s place in the world. Same goes with fans of most other successful teams.
The Patriots’ three Super Bowl victories have been decided by nine points total, and two were decided by last-second field goals of 40+ yards. In other words, they are one snow job (against the Raiders) and one missed field goal away from owning one, not three, Lombardi trophies.
I’m not saying the Patriots haven’t been a great team for most of the past six years, nor am I saying that they didn’t win those Super Bowls.
I’m just saying that they didn’t invent professional football (which will be a shock to a lot of their fans) and that, in this league of a bounce here and a bounce there, they’ve had some favorable bounces. They got to their first Super Bowl by means of a blown call against the Raiders, and they’ve been squeaking by ever since in the big game.
Now the Patriots have been caught cheating, and everyone in the NFL seems to agree that this is not an isolated incident, but rather standard operating procedure for the organization. It’s surely no coincidence that it was a Belichick protégé who finally caught them red handed.
Dr. (Raider Hater) Z of Sports Illustrated writes the following: “Last year the Lions played the Patriots in Foxboro. At one point their coach, Rod Marinelli, phoned up to the press box, ‘There
In a rare instance of me agreeing with Dr. Z., he also notes “the arrogance of the organization, the smugness. We are the greatest, with the greatest coach, a genius, etc. What other team ever had its owner, Bob Kraft in this case, take the Super Bowl trophy overseas in the name of world peace. What
Such is the increasingly slim margin between a so-called dynasty and an intellectual travesty.
posted by Raider Take at 10:17 AM
44 Comments:
Travesty indeed. Now they get a little slap on the wrist for years of cheating. Losing one of their TWO first round picks ONLY IF they make the playoffs, otherwise they lose a 2nd & 3rd. Small price to pay for stolen glory. After reading all the little comments from coaches complaining about their headsets going out at the worst possible times, and spying, I'm convinced they would not even be considered a top tier team if it were not for cheating. They wouldn't have high profile FA's flocking to NE for less money hoping to get a ring. They wouldn't have won many of those close games where Brady miraculously knew how to pick appart the defenses at just the right times.
The fines are all well & good but how does that punish the play on the field to compensate for their past successes due to cheating? Not even a suspension. It's pathetic.
Psycho
For every victory that NE records this season, the first question at a post game news conference should be, "Coach Bilechick, how did you cheat in this game? What do you think was the dirty trick that got you over the hump?"
We can only hope this is the case. Well, maybe not to that degree, but I hope this sticks with Belly-Chick and the whole organization for as long as they have any current members accociated with the organization. Hell, I'll goto my grave talking sh*t to them. But let's hope the negative publicity will be enough to get Belly-Chick fired and get the public questioning the the rings & Lombardi', at least.
Psycho
Game prediction:
Raiders lose 19-17. Jano misses wide right on the game winning field goal with less than a minute to play.
Don't shoot.
RT:
Thanks...I did not know that they took the "SB" trophy over seas in the name of "World Peace"....now that really backs up my silly conspiricy thory....so I think I should re-post it and maybe I will post it around the NFL to see if I can get a reaction.....
Conspiricy Thories:.....I just love a good "Bad" plot....
2001 after 911 Bush wanted an American hero to hold up to the people....so he contacted "Tag-a-Boo" and gave an excutive order to promote his favorate NFL team to champians saying "Your country needs you now....it's a mater of national security"....so of course "Tag-a-Boo" obeyed (and got paid enough to retire).....
Belly-Chick was contacted by the "SecreatService" along with the CIA-n-FBI....he was asked..."See that satalite up there....well of course you don't but it see's you and knows everything you do even at times before you know....we will share this technology with you so you can spy on the other teams just like we spy on your niebors....garanteed to make you a winner"....so Belly-Chick" said..."I'm in"....
Next they made contact with Brady...."How would you like to go into politics....we can make you the "PosterChild" of the "New World Order" and when your football days are over you will gain office as a celibrated hero....Brady said..."I'm in"...
So the rest is history and the plot worked until that cold December "02" day in Boston...(no tea party in site)...the hated "Raiders of the DarkSide" who repesent every thing evil in the world were in town and the spy satalite could not crack their code....it became evedent that the newly apointed heros would loose and not return to glory for a second season....so again an executive order was given and "Tag-a-Boo" had the game halted....in the replay booth the oficials were ordered to reverse the call on the field...(tuck rule)...and the rest raider Fans is history....
So now we find out that Belly-Chick has had some remarkable technology but no one can figure out how they bacame so good with it....now just look up in the shy above....you see that...NO...you see nothing.....but it see's you.....that's your answer.....
PantyRaider....History From the DarkSide!!!!!
Now I need to add to it and post it around the NFL with spelling corections....
PantyRaider.....PatsySmak!!!!
I had it cocked, but I guess since it's you...
Here is a diecent article on the Patsies:
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7223504?MSNHPHMA
R88RRS win 28-24
Psycho
Just a note:
Over the years many have criticized Davis for passing on such coaches as Belichick and Mangini. While it is true that Mangini may have been the one to "catch" Belichick in the act, he was able to do so because he was involved himself when he was DC in NE.
Imagine, for a moment, that the current controversy came down against the Raider Nation. You think people are quick to hate now? I'd also suggest that the punishment would have been far stiffer if the Raiders had been the culprit.
Needless to say, I'd willingly suffer 4 or 5 years of defeat to avoid that. Suffering a 2-14 season is worth avoiding that.
I think I can speak for the Raider Nation in proclaiming that we prefer to build a winner the old fashioned way - through hard work.
I'll also call out Goodell as a jerk and liar.
Wade Wilson (QB coach of the Cowboys) was suspended for five games and fined $100,000.00 (a considerable larger percentage of his pay check than $500,000.00 is of Belichick's who wasn't suspended at all). He was punished for having HGH in his blood. Wilson is a diabetic, and suffers from erectile disfunction as a result. He was not taking Viagra for competitive advantage, he was taking it so that he could have better familial relations with his wife. When he asked why he was being so severly punished, he was told "we hold coaches to a higher standard than the players."
I call BS! Players are suspended regulary for multiple games and are heavily fined for seeking an individual competitive advantage, not for the whole team. Wilson was punished far more for seeking to boink his wife than Belichick was punished for doing things which have an effect over the entire league.
What is funny dough is that the mediots are so ready to just crucify any and everybody!
I hate the patsies much more than any division rival because of that game in the snow, I do believe that it had a lot to do with the zebras and I do believe that it had to do with the fact of sep 11, they were looking for a "patriot" team to bring up the nation, they also had a real bad call against the steelers the next game and the patsies ended up in the superbowl.
raiderdecoachella
Blanda:
I am with you!
Goodell is a hypocrit!
To me cheating and gambling is exactly the same! they are taking it as "well he didn't really mean to do this" pretty much! BS that son of Kraft should pay with his job!
raiderdecoachella
Wonder how many games (wins) should have gone the other way as a result of their cheating (including SBs). I guess we'll never know, but I certainly wouldn't want that hanging over my team.
Wade Wilson is right to be pissed off. He loses 1/3 of his salary and the right to perform his job for 5 games because he didn't ask the league for permission to have a particular treatment for a medical condition, a treatment that provided neither the coach nor the team any competitive advantage, unless you consider having healthy coaches an unfair advantage.
When the Patsies get caught in an apparent long-standing policy of cheating, there are no suspensions. What a crock.
I just knew that Goodell didn't have the huevos to do the right thing here. Just like Shaq never gets called for traveling no matter how many giant steps he takes, there are different rules for some teams. What a joke.
Take,
Perfectly said. Perhaps your best.
Slap ont the wrist.
H
Looks like we're back to Culpepper. According to SI, McCown had to leave practice early because his foot was bothering him. Kiffin says that right now it's Culpepper, but he'll have to wait to see how McCown feels in the morning.
This will be worth your while...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EU1O-hGxgg
Blanda
That video is F'in AWESOME! I'm sending it everyone!
Psycho
And now that you've seen that video...
Look at this one and see how many times Brady hits the receiver who is left uncovered because his cover man is blitzing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMMa7cZb2Jc
i have to say this. have we raiders fans gone straight or something ?
isn't there something deep inside all of us that wishes al davis would have thought of this scheme and won a few super bowls with it ?
"if you aint cheatin, you aint tryin". that's what the old raiders used to say.
as an oldschool raiders fan, i applaud the patsies for their inventivness.
Raider00,
I'm as old school as anyone here. But, the old Raiders weren't cheaters. They took what was legal (stickum, headslap, bump and run) and elevated it to another level. The above, along with the Holy Roller are what people always bring up when they say the Raiders cheat.
None of them were illegal when the Raiders used them. The rules were changed afterwards.
If you know of a particular instance of actual cheating I would like to know about it.
There's a huge difference between stretching a rule and breaking a clearly defined rule, especially after you were given a warning.
That is one reason I say it was a slap on the wrist.
H
oh, blandarocked, i had to stop watching that second video. i still can't stand to see that damn tuck play. after all these years, it's still ridiculous how they ruled that an incomplete pass, with brady's damn arm down in front of him, with 2 hands on the ball. and now the patsies get a slap on the hand for cheating. shit.
One more thing. Dan Marino said, if he knew what kind of coverage was on and what blitz was coming, he could light the other team up. And, it wouldn't take that many plays. Only one or two per half.
I'm paraphrasing, but I think that's pretty close.
H
I'm with you Raider00. All of a sudden we are holier than thou? B.S.! I hate the patsies and Belichick and Kraft, but you know what-they stole a page right from our book. We used to get into our opponents heads so bad with some of the stuff we did (or just were accused of doing). Walt Michaels was so paranoid of us he practically had to be sedated. I wish we'd get back to some of our old ways. What difference does it make- the league and the officials are gonna screw us every chance they get anyway.
-Raidermike
Thanks for the plug RT. I guess you are rubbing off on all of us in terms of "Defending the Nation".
As far as I'm concerned, it is perfectly ok for Raider fans to squabble amongst themselves because of a difference of opinions. At the end of the day we all want the same thing for OUR team ... glory.
As soon as an outsider invades our turf by dropping message bombs on a Raider site (ie. Patsy Boy, Whiner Boy, Faida Boy etc.) than the gloves come off. You might have noticed that I named all of these knuckleheads "boys" since real mean don't play these childish games. It is far time for these boys to put away their crayons and get on with their adult life.
At the same token, I'm perfectly fine with another fan coming on to various sites if he posts reasonable, intelligent football opinions. Frankly, these views should be welcomed whether you agree with the point of view or not. However, when a fan comes on to a site for the soul purpose of sticking out their tongue, provoking, irratating, name calling then the RT gang needs to circle the wagons and put the offender in his rightful place.
As far as the Patsies cheating their way the past few years, I think it certainly taints the organizations and tarnishes the SB Championships, and perhaps, the legacy of Tom Brady/Bill BellChick.
My Week 2 Prediction:
Raiders 17
Donkeys 13
Enjoy the weekend gentlemen. H, I will be enjoying a pint of Guiness in honor of your friend.
Cheers!
Calico Jack
H,
it is well known that back in the day, al davis, and most everybody else, would try to slip a "spy" into other teams practice.
also, do you remember the fast one al davis pulled on don shula in order to draft charlie smith ?
the story goes that davis wanted smith badly but he knew miami was going to take him ahead of the raiders.
al found out that shula had arranged for a private workout with smith.
al stashes smith away in a hotel room, and sends some slow, black dude to shula's private workout claiming to be smith.
shula works out the imposter, and is not impressed. when the draft comes, shula passes on smith, and davis grabs him.
when the raiders played miami during the season, it is said that shula's eyes were popping out watching smith show great hands, and speed.
he turns to an assistant and screams, "that's not the damn player who worked out for me".
classic al davis.
was it cheating ? who cares. all fair in love, war, and football.
Raiders of Old:
AlDavis talked about how he cheated the Miami Fish....there was a player who Davis wanted but knew the fish would pick him first....so they sent a friend who was not a football player but looked very good like an athlete to the fish for a try-out....the fish were so unimpressed with him that they did not chouse him in the draft....later when they saw him play for the Raiders they said that's not the same guy who interviewed with us....and Al just smiled....
But the fact is that at the time there was no rule against doing that....unethical yes....no sportsmanship yes....but illeagle NO.....and the differance with the Raiders is we admit to what we did....we do not hide in denile....we admit the Holy Roller was an intentional fumble forward....that's the diffe3rance with us....we admit it but the rest do not....
Did you ever here Eddy DeBartlo admit anything....Carman Policy....Tag-a-Boo....Belly Chick....NO!!!!
PantyRaider.....Proud to be a Raider!!!!
Raider00....you beat me to it....I should have looked at the current post before I finished writting....
PantyRaider....Backing you up!!!
RT-
Your best take ever. The ruling validates my conspiracy theory. Certain teams are protected. The pats for sure, east coast teams and winners (save Raiders) for certain. I just watched nfl network and isen said, after showing the bellycheck press conference, bellycheck stated, "This is behind us and we are moving on to sandeago," The water carrying host Isin said,
"Well we are also moving on to sd" and began talking about the pats vs sd game. Like nothing happened.
Why not, it's the nfl network!
Dig deep and sully the almighty pats? Blaspheme.
I have always been underwhelmed by bellycheck and never got the "genius" aspect. Now I know why he is such "the genius"
He cheats!
The other aspect that I have yet to hear inferred is gambling.
What stops a player from telling someone, "Hey, bet on us this week 'cause we have the jets defensive signals. We'll score 38."
What would the league do if the Raiders had done something like this......
Panty,
it's quite alright.
it's such a great story, it's worth hearing twice.
Raider00,
Was the Charlie Smith incident a direct violation of a clearly defined rule?
As with the Holy Roller, people say Stabler intentionally fumbled. But, as we know from last year in San Diego the refs can't take a players intent into the action. As in you fall down, no one touches you, you get up and spike the ball.
You are not supposed to cover your jersey number. But over the course of a game Lester Haye's number would be half covered with stickum. Balls that hit him in the chest were easier to handle. Was that cheating when the refs could have sent him to the sidelines for violating the NFL uniform policy?
I'm not saying the Raiders never cheated. But, when you have the arrogance to continue to violate a rule after being warned. And, the rumor is he was warned more than once. Which, to me, means Bilechick thought the rules didn't apply to him and Kraft knew.
Had one of the assistant coaches watched the opposition during a game and figured out the pattern of the signals on his own and without the electronic analysis I would have no problem with it. It would be like figuring out the third base coaches signals in baseball.
As I said in a previous post. This week I saw a piece on Brady where they talked in glowing terms about how he could read the blitz packages so quickly. How great he was in his decision making and finding the uncovered receiver. I think one of the analyst use the word uncanny. Let's see how well he does it now. He might still be just as good, but he will now be under the microscope.
Hell, I remember stories about Al Davis being suspicious of helicopters flying over practices.
Now, that would be ballsy. Buzz Patriots practices in a Huey.
H
It is really gonna be interesting to see if the Patriots will win as many games now that they have been caught. How will they perform now? Being a Raiders fan has always made me think in the back of my mind that the NFL is a rigged show. Maybe not like pro wrestling, but indirectly rigged. There is just so much money involved and human nature being what it is, I do not think it is out of the question to believe this. Perhaps it happens with the refs (NBA), players (Black Sox), or the coaches (Patsies), but the notion is there. So many Sunday's devoted to this shit. Yeah it is entertaining, but so is getting cleaned out at a casino. In the end, you are a sucker for taking it tooo serious.
I’m just catching up this morning. Lots of good stories. And Blanda, thanks for those YT links. The first one is priceless! The second one is tough to watch, although it reminded me of how great a team the Raiders were at that moment in time.
Raider00-
In response to your 6:09pm post, I’d like to offer this excerpt from the same Dr. Z article that RT quoted:
“Good old street crime is one thing. It goes with the history of sports. But this video thing lifts it to a new level of electronic surveillance and into the realm of the hi-tech, white collar crime that we all hate.”
By and large, the good old “street crimes” of the Raiders, however ethically challenged they might have been, were not illegal by rule. As Z says, this is a case of sheer “arrogance and dedication” by the Patsies to be criminal.
Unfortunately, the punishment doesn’t appear to suit the crime... suspensions have been doled out for much lesser offenses. The fines and loss of what will end up being mid-round draft pick(s) is a joke. Maybe the only lasting consequence is that this taints every Patsy victory and places an asterisk next to each Patsy Superbowl victory. Cause, otherwise, idiots like Sean Salisberry (steak) will just continue to argue that it's really no big deal.
Wouln't it be something to watch if the Raiders would go out there and deliveratelly do the same thing as the patsies and see what the league and the mediots would do to them!
raiderdecoachella
Interesting to see that I am not the only Raider Fan that suffers from a Suspicious Mind....I have tried for a long time to ignor the reality that my favorite NFL Pass-Time is just a Riged Entertainment...the evidance is overwhelming but the support for believing in a clean sport with clean atheletes is dwindling quickly....still though because I love the Raiders so much I have to hold onto my delusions of a level playing field....not tilted in any perticular direction....but deep down inside I know that is just not true.....
I have spent most of my life in sports compition in one form or another....and yes there has been cheating and favortism mixed in because so-n-so's sister is married to so-n-so's friend...but for the most part the compition is very clean and the atheletes want it that way....from Rodeo to Martial Arts....from Racing Dirt Bikes to Sailing....I love the compition....I have lived for it....Had my ass kicked....walked off victorious....but never wanted to quit....
That's the thing that keeps me believing....when I see a player have to retire from the sport he loves and there are tears in his eyes and he does not want it to end....that convincees me that he played the game with real heart and commitment....just a pure riged event would not effect a player that way....so I will keep believing.....but also remain suspicious.....
PantyRaider....CleanCompition!!!!
As a Raider fan since 6 years old (1974), it still amazes me on the amount of Raider haters. I do not believe any other team has such a strong reaction. Especially in the media. Sportswiters are supposed to be somewhat objectice/neutral, yet continue to berate/condemn the Raiders and Al Davis. Very few teams surpass or even comapre to what Al Davis and the Raiders have done. We have fallen on hard times as of late, but that does not take away from what has been accomplished. The media slobbers all over the Patriots. Even now with the scandal at hand, they rush to their defense. Yet no one now, or ever, from the media has written positive words of praise. Fine. It is the Raiders against the world. And we will have our day in the sun again.
Oak-Tone
AngelicRaider-
Hey Panty dont be that guy on Donkotalk that only sez very dumb stuff all the time. We got that blogger that sez Faida's and I know I hate reading his post by accident so more rock! less talk! luv ya just the same either way.
I think in addition to the punishment the Pats received, all coaches should be forced to wear blindfolds at the completion of every offensive play until the snap for two seasons.
This would be both humiliating and eliminate their cheating.
They will continue to cheat... we all know it.
AngelicRaider:
I send HateMail in the form of humor....yes it rubs a fan the wrong way at times but it's not just some nut case screeming trash talk...in fact I get some good replies mixed in with the bad....for example this is the type of humor I sent.....
"Last time I was in MuleHigh I witnessed a donkey cart rolling down East Colfax being pulled by an ass, and following behind were several small donkey fillies dressed in blue and orange with scoop shovels in their hands, I guessed they were SupperScuppers and they were scooping up the RoadApples and placing them in the cart, well an old timer noticed that I was a little amazed by what I saw, so the old boy approached and explained that the RoadApples are saved because it’s used as chew when they run out of tobacco, so I guess that explains why ya’ll got those green teeth.
NightMares, now there’s a scary thought, but back in Burlington a certain truck driver called Dinky was out getten himself a little butt when they found him in the early morning hours naked and unconscious lying on his back with that donkey tied up to a fence post with a stool sittin behind him it was realized that all that Hee’n and a Haw’n that people heard the night before was not a group of drunken Donko Fans celebrating their win as thought, any way, Dinky was taken to a local hospital to have his over sized RockyMountain Oysters removed, speculation was that Donkeys buck-n-kick when experiencing sexual assault….
Speaking of RockyMountain Oysters, sense NutFries are so popular amongst Donkey Fans there will be a feast after the game in MuleHigh Sunday, also on the menu will be genuine Eastern Colorado barbequed TubeStake and filet of RockyMountain ShortSnake sautéed in Donkey Bladder Extract, and from the fillies, RockyMountain Clams fried in virgin oil until their open, knee pads will be given out for comfort, Colorado Kool-Aid will be available to rinse out your mouth, please try not to over eat as gasterdly exhaust can be toxic to the environment and the Kansas City Squaws are asleep somewhere down wind.
Go Donkeys…….to Your Slaughter!!!!!"
PantyRaider.....HateMailer!!!!
nyraider,
you make valid points, but i still think this whole pats/video thing is overblown.
do you really think the patsies are going to fall apart because of this ?
if this video stuff was so important to them, why didn't they win the sb every year ??
this thing is being blown up by the media because it happened in a game against the NY Jets.
ESPN is located on the east coast, and they are running with this thing because Espn has always favored jets/giants, mets/yanks, knicks/rangers.
if the patsies had been caught doing this against any other team in the league besides jets/giants, everyone would have forgotten by now.
had the patsies got caught doing it against the raiders, the media would have blamed the raiders, and called them stupid for not knowing what was goin on.
that's just the way things are these days. i never look to Espn for the truth, only for hilights.
Coachella makes an interesting point. If we got caught violating the same rules as the Patsies it would be interesting to see what the reaction would be.
Publically we'd get destroyed, obviously, so it wouldn't be worth it. But as far as actual punishment we would only lose a pick or two because the NFL couldn't be so obviously biased.
So maybe if the media weren't in the picture it'd be worth it, if all we get is a (slap on the wrist) 1st round pick. I mean, we were only going to waste it on another kicker anyways, right? Just kidding Nnam, Fabe, Michael, JaMarcus, Tyler, & Robert. Hey Jano, I wasn't kidding. Make a kick and I'll add your name.
Psycho
Panty-
Broncostalk.net sucks! I posted once or twice as "TesticulousMaximus" and I don't get any response out of them!
All of their stupid little subjects only have like zero to 6 responses and nobody it seems like a ghost town with fancy orange (fancy as in gay) colors everywhere.
Got any recommendations as far as which sections to visit?
Psycho (aka: TesticulousMaximus)
Psycho:
Here is the Devver News Paper in MuleHigh where I have been posting and they have alot more activity....the news articals on the left hand side have comments at the end so I post replies on some of the articals....lots of fun...
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos
You have to excuse Donko Fans....the waves go over their MuleHeads after they bounce off the Rockies so they dwell in a Mental Vacume....WaveLess as in BrainDead....or Dumb as a Mule....Prehistoric Assology-n-Animule Husbandry are the main areas of study at Mule St University in Falling Boulder, Colorado....
Pantyraider....HateMailer!!!!
AngelicRaider-
Yo man CU is a pretty good school, and they have a great swing team. (I'm a coach on it)Mess with Donkey town, but when you mess with Boulder thems fightin wurds.
AngelicRaider......Beat the Donkeys.
Ay! Mate!.....but nothing is off limits in the MuleHigh area this week....
My brother lives in Boulder and I spent 5 years in Colorado....I like it and had fun with the folks back there....but when it comes to football they are just a bunch of Donkey MuleHeads as you no doubt know.....I only picked on Boulder because I could say Rolling Rocks...but I forget....which one is the Buffalo....UC or CSU...
PantyRaider....HateMailer!!!!
I haven't heard anyone compare the pats cheating to that of the niners a few years ago, when they were paying their players under the table and thus circumventing the salary cap.
It's not surprising though, since ESPN practically worships the niners.
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