The Myth of The Ex-Raiders
So LaMont Jordan signs with the Patriots and already folks are invoking the name of Randy Moss, as if there’s some unwritten cosmic law that says ex-Raiders will excel in New England.
You know, like Doug Gabriel, whom we traded to the Patriots for a draft pick in 2006, and who is now unemployed after subsequent stints with the Raiders (again) and Bengals.
Boy, the Patriots really pulled the wool over our eyes on that one, eh?
The Haters love to invoke Moss as an example of the Raiders getting fleeced by New England. An elite receiver traded for a fourth-round draft pick? What fools, those Raiders!
What the Haters to fail to mention is that Moss was worth less than a fourth-round draft pick to the Raiders, and apparently to the rest of the league as well. He was a flagrant traitor to the concepts of effort, competition and leadership, and was thus valued accordingly.
Which brings us to Jordan. There are three possibilities: (1) he continues to mope and underperform, and gets cut before the season starts; (2) he actually studies the playbook and regains his claim to functional mediocrity; or (3) he outperforms and gives the Haters a new talking point.
I doubt that Jordan will outperform, but for the sake of conversation, let’s say he does. Okay, so what? What does that tell us?
It tells us what Gary said here earlier about Jordan: “That's the thing with players that don't have any leadership abilities... they do pretty well on teams that don't need any leadership.”
This is exactly why Moss was valuable to New England, but to no one else. He’s the player equivalent of the bandwagon fan—no guts, all glory. He’ll never be the guy who got you there. He’s the guy who’s there because someone else got you there.
On that note, it's funny how Justin Fargas has managed to do what Jordan couldn’t—keep his nose to the grindstone and assert a winning attitude, under the same coaches, opportunities and circumstances afforded to Jordan.
So bon voyage, LaMont. Say hello to Randy. Enjoy the fruits of others’ labors while you can, because the Patriots party is coming to an end.
You know, like Doug Gabriel, whom we traded to the Patriots for a draft pick in 2006, and who is now unemployed after subsequent stints with the Raiders (again) and Bengals.
Boy, the Patriots really pulled the wool over our eyes on that one, eh?
The Haters love to invoke Moss as an example of the Raiders getting fleeced by New England. An elite receiver traded for a fourth-round draft pick? What fools, those Raiders!
What the Haters to fail to mention is that Moss was worth less than a fourth-round draft pick to the Raiders, and apparently to the rest of the league as well. He was a flagrant traitor to the concepts of effort, competition and leadership, and was thus valued accordingly.
Which brings us to Jordan. There are three possibilities: (1) he continues to mope and underperform, and gets cut before the season starts; (2) he actually studies the playbook and regains his claim to functional mediocrity; or (3) he outperforms and gives the Haters a new talking point.
I doubt that Jordan will outperform, but for the sake of conversation, let’s say he does. Okay, so what? What does that tell us?
It tells us what Gary said here earlier about Jordan: “That's the thing with players that don't have any leadership abilities... they do pretty well on teams that don't need any leadership.”
This is exactly why Moss was valuable to New England, but to no one else. He’s the player equivalent of the bandwagon fan—no guts, all glory. He’ll never be the guy who got you there. He’s the guy who’s there because someone else got you there.
On that note, it's funny how Justin Fargas has managed to do what Jordan couldn’t—keep his nose to the grindstone and assert a winning attitude, under the same coaches, opportunities and circumstances afforded to Jordan.
So bon voyage, LaMont. Say hello to Randy. Enjoy the fruits of others’ labors while you can, because the Patriots party is coming to an end.
posted by Raider Take at 9:49 PM
312 Comments:
LaMont and Randy, aaah, 2 "bunk buddies" reunited, if you know what I mean.
Nobody quit more on our team than those two. Nobody did more to destroy our chances at winning than these two.
RT, you were right about Moss being a "bandwagon" player, all glory, no guts. But Jordan is the player who thinks he's important; and everytime he gets called out; he pulls the "Do you know who I am?" or "Do you know who I play for?" or "Do you know who my teammate is?" cards.
The only thing we were duped on was thinking that Jordan had any real talent; and found out the only talent he had was falling down because his @$$ was too slow to hit the running lane.
LaMont, I hope your training camp with the Pats will be a great memory for you before you get cut.
RT, you also forgot that nobody mentions the fact they thought Al was "crazy" for trying to get a 4th Rounder for Moss too; whom everyone (League officials and media included) was saying he was washed up, and his career was over. They fail to mention the "voices" were telling Al to cut his losses by releasing Moss for nothing because nobody would pick him up because if he can't play for Al, he won't be able to play for anyone else. Then "BAM", the Pats get Moss for a 4th Rounder; and it's the most brilliant move since slicing bread.
These are 2 cancers that I am glad are gone; and though they haven't turned yet; what will the Pats do when these goons turn on them, and start tearing down that organization like they did the Raiders and the Vikings/Jets before them?
Keeping the cancer alive is giving the cancer a chance to further destroy everything around them.
Well said RT. It's just a matter of time before Moss shows his true colors, and Jordan will soon be a memory in NE. At best, he and his sore back will ride their bench.
Perhaps Belicheat thinks Jordan can offer some insight to the Raiders' playbook for the game this year. Yeah!
Yeah, New England really fleeced the Raiders with that Mike Haynes thing. Oh, and some guy named Plunkett (yes he did take a detour through Whiner country).
Look, it was proven in the most recent Super Bowl that if you put pressure on Brady and smack Moss around at the line of scrimmage they fold like wet cardboard.
Jordan may have a great rebirth with the Patsies. Stranger things have happened.
It wouldn't surprise me if he has a fake injury ala Moss in camp last year. But, I don't think he will be a difference maker for them.
H
My take on Jordan is that he is a very talented player. So talented, in fact, that he's survived his whole career thus far on that talent alone, without having to work.
He doesn't bother perfecting his craft, he doesn't bother to take instructions from coaches on what they need him to do, and NEVER bothers to study the play book. I goes out there only with the knowledge that, "I have to block somebody," or "I have to run up the middle," or "I have to run off the left tackle." He openly admitted that his first year here he never bothered to learn what the blocking assignments were.
The sad thing is how spectacular he could be if he actually put in the same kind of effort Fargas does. Think of Jordan's half of the Miami game on a regular basis.
And Randy Moss is the same way. It wasn't just that Moss grew alligator arms for us, he ran his own routs. He only put effort into the deep balls. Short, and over the middle, he just went through the motions.
As long as Jordan and Moss are never asked to contribute anything other than big plays, they will continue. When the Pats begin to slide, and the coaches begin to ask for some leadership and guidance for younger players, the Jordan/Moss well will be dry.
Nice to have you back Take.
Cheers to another season.
AngelicRaider
Jake Grove is showing some real positives. He's stronger and determined to prove the Raiders made no mistake in drafting him.
He was held out for a few days with an injury, but after coming back is leading the first unit from drill to drill (showing signs of having the leadership that is a prerequisite for centers).
Someone over at football 360 was ragging on McQuistan, saying he'll be cut before the end of camp. I disagree. What we know about McQuistan is that he's a slow starter. While he's averaging about one false start a practice, don't forget that he's being moved around from one position to another. Once they allow him to settle in somewhere, he'll be fine. In a similar way that he developed at RT late last season.
I'm intrigued about Wakefield. It seems possible to me that he could actually wind up a starter. He has, on occasion, worked with the first team at RG and RT. He can also play TE in the three TE sets.
Blanda...
We clearly have a higher standard at Center than most teams, based on History, but I agree that Jake may surprise us this year.
In less significant metrics news, on top of clearly being in better shape, Grove looks more like a pirate this year with the short crop and thick goat. (See photo 2 of 15 from Photo Set 7/29)
The Autum wind is blowing!
err...Autumn
Moss... Moss wasn't obtained by NE so that they could have an undefeated regular season. He wasn't obtained to make it to the playoffs. Moss was obtained to win NE another Super Bowl.
What the Giants proved (as though Moss' stint with the Raiders wasn't enough) is that Moss won't fight for anything. If you jam him at the line, making it difficult on him to run his rout, he won't fight for it, he'll just give up because it's not fun for him anymore.
As for Brady, the Giants proved that without cheating, Brady doesn't know what to do when the blitz is coming, and he starts to look like - well, a late round draft pick.
I don't see anyone comparing Lamont's situation to Randy Moss. Randy did not want to play for a losing team and the Raiders did not have a high caliber QB for him to work him. Lamont just failed to retain his job through diminished performance. So Randy is a primadona. Jordan is just a whiner the Pats will use as a backup (if he makes the team).
The bottom line is Al is rankled by both situations. That's what sticks in his craw and that's why the Pats are laughing.
I wonder if Rankin is the reason that McFadden is seeing so much work at WR. While there are no worries about the Raiders RBs, short of injury, there are concerns as to whether we have enough at WR. Kiffin wasn't even sure if Rankin would make it to camp, but he impresses every day. One thing I hear repeatedly is that Rankin knows how to follow his blockers - something that Jordan never bothered with.
I wonder if the Raiders will decide to keep four HBs, knowing that they can plug McFadden in at WR if need be.
Blanda - I don't see McQuistan settling in to any one position. I believe he will be a valuable backup at several positions along the line. Someday, probably due to injury, he will have another chance to prove himself.
As you point out, Grove seems to be making the best of his opportunities. We desperately need a veteran-like presence at center. It's time for somebody to step up and take charge.
Interestingly, we hear next to nothing about Gallery. It's hard to say if that's good or bad. Everyone's expectation was that he would become the monster of our O-line. With his size and agility, he should be blowing people off the line. Oh well, consistency is the next best thing.
What do you guys make of Ricky Brown sticking with the 1st team at Strong Side LB?
I hardly remember the guy so I don't know what to think. I remember making a mental note that he was a diecent player.
Can't wait for the 9er game to witness how that will work out.
Psycho
Last year Gallery was fine after we got past the first couple of games, and then reports were he was indeed becoming a monster. They expect continued improvement from Gallery this season. The reason we haven't heard much is because he's not committing false starts, he's not allowing sacks, and he's opening holes. The downside of being an excellent O-linemen is that nobody ever says your name.
As for Brown, what I hear is he's showing more consistancy than anyone else at the position. He's worked very hard in the off season to make a place for himself other than on special teams.
As a matter of fact, it's kind of what I hear about almost everyone who was with the team last year and still sticking. The ones who are still there are the ones that fully bought into Kiffin's system and are showing a great amount of effort to make it work.
PatriotsDynasty
You Raider fans sure do make me laugh. How many days now until December 14th? I can't wait for the Patriots to come into that McCafee Coliseum and take it over. Its gonna be our house on the 14th. I hope we dance on that pirate logo on the 50 yard line after the game just like we did in San Diego ;)
PatriassDynie:
How are you going to win if you can't film before hand? The Giants pretty much proved you're a bust when you can't cheat.
PatriotsDynasty
Well against the Raiders our third string team can show up and we would win by three touchdowns. We may even give Brady, Moss and Jordan the week off on December 14th, so we can rest them up for the playoffs.
Isn't that kind of what you were saying about the Giants? BWAHhahahaha....
I'm not putiing any Patsies on my fantasy team unless someone really slips far. I can see them imploding this year.
Psycho
Punch Moss in the mouth at the line; blitz Brady punching him in the mouth; and that equals a Patriots Loss.
You can guarantee that every team will be doing this to the Pats this year.
The only thing that concerns me is their pu$$ schedule. Here are the games I have them losing:
Week 2 @ Jets
Week 6 @ Dunder Dolts
Week 8 v Rams
Week 9 @ Colts
Week 13 v Steelers
Week 15 @ Raiders
Still leaves them 10 and 6 with that, but the bubble teams they could lose to:
Week 14 @ Seattle
Week 17 @ Buffalo
Week 7 v Doncos
I look for Brady to go out with an injury this year. The Giants exposed them for the frauds they are. You play physical with them, and they fold.
The wins I expect the Raiders to have this year:
Week 1 v Doncos
Week 2 @ Chefs
Week 7 v Jets
Week 9 v Falcons
Week 11 @ Miami
Week 13 v Chefs
Week 15 v Patriots
Week 16 v Texans
Bubble games that could go either way:
Week 3 @ Buffalo
Week 4 v Chargers
Week 6 @ Saints
Week 8 @ Baltimore
Week 10 v Panthers
Week 17 @ Tampa Bay
Who knows ... Jordan might end up being a good backup RB in New England but who really cares? The Pats will be a top seeded playoff team in 08 due to a pillsbury doughboy soft schedule, arguably the weakest division in the NFL, an elite QB and HC, a stable system in place,etc.... At this point in time I honestly don't concern myself with what the other teams are doing.
My main focus of interest is seeing the Raiders build a solid foundation for long term success. We need to shore up our pass protection, improve our run D, continualy upgrade our talent level, and allow for our core young players to develop.
When I look at our roster I see an extremely bright future being built on the backs of a nucleus of young players like Russell, McFadden, Bush, Morrison, Howeard, Hall, Asomugha, Wilson.
Calico Jack
Blanda,
You said:
"What the Giants proved (as though Moss' stint with the Raiders wasn't enough) is that Moss won't fight for anything. If you jam him at the line, making it difficult on him to run his rout, he won't fight for it, he'll just give up because it's not fun for him anymore.
As for Brady, the Giants proved that without cheating, Brady doesn't know what to do when the blitz is coming, and he starts to look like - well, a late round draft pick."
I said:
"Look, it was proven in the most recent Super Bowl that if you put pressure on Brady and smack Moss around at the line of scrimmage they fold like wet cardboard."
Besides from being a little more succinct, I beat you by about 6 hours.
Just trying to rub it in a little.
H
Actually, H, I was responding to your 7:52AM post. Or at least adding to it. Backing you up as it were. It's hard to back you up in front of you.
Reading the daily reports from JMac and others, what appears to be emerging is a very physical camp, with players putting in the maximum effort. These are starting to look like guys who want to win, not just buy into a system. In other words, they appear to have taken the next step forward.
Blitzchick did her report on short yardage and goal line drills. Pretty much a draw between offense and defense. Running backs making some nifty moves, and defense stacking the line.
Hard to tell what the first preseason game will bring, but I'm looking forward to it.
Blanda,
Just don't backup too fast while you're in front of me. I might have a beer in my hands and wouldn't want to spill it.
As long as we have each other's backs thats all that counts. We old guys have to stick together.
H
Speaking of beer, I get to pop the top on the latest batch this weekend. Must be why I'm having a hard time concentrating at work.
Looking forward to enjoying one.
H
I'll have one of those beepers installed. Like they have on delivery trucks.
That reminds me of an old joke from the pager days, before cell phones. A father and son are waiting in line at a fast food restaurant. They are standing behind an incredibly fat woman ordering multiple Big Macs and fries. Suddenly her pager goes off. Says the son, "Careful, Dad! She's backin' up!"
BR-what the hell is a pager? Was there really ever a time the world was without a cellphone?
Just kidding.
Pagers were a while ago. Back in the days when I used to walk 150 miles to school through snow storms. I think the "son" refered to in the story grew up to be Al Davis.
CELL PHONES!!!!!!!!
Hell, I walked to school up hill both ways.
I remember the phone in the house was a party line. We actually shared the phone line with two other neighbors. Now I got three phone numbers(me, Mrs. H, and the house).
Man, we are spoiled.
H
Does your house have a pocket to carry it's cell phone in?
i remember getting up at 5, to walk to school, and had to write a letter to communicate, and turn-cranking the car to start. :D
okay, so i'm not that old (born in '74), but i do remember having a turn dial tv (with 12 channels before cable) and phone (the ol' rotary dials).
Hey, H and I remember no dials at all. Pick up the ear piece off the hook, and speak into the megaphone shaped mouth piece.
Bang on the hook a couple of times to get the opperater (usually named something like Alice, or Mattilda) and say, "Hi, Alice. Put me through Bob Smith over in Terrabunk County."
"Sure, BlandaRocked," she'd say. "Does your father know you're making this call. It's long distance you know."
We carry them in the wheelbarrow.
That must have been your phone on the Andy Griffith Show.
Remember the hand crank on the side of the phone on the wall.
H
Raidertake,
you are right on the money with this.
the raiders made the best deal they could make for randy moss.
that says more about moss than it does the raiders.
every other team was arfaid to touch moss at that time.
don't you think the packers had regrets while they were being shut down in the championship game ?
don't you think they wish they would have parted with a #2 pick for moss on that cold january day vs the giants ?
of course they did. to me, the pack made a far bigger mistake than the raiders did.
but of course the media loves farve, and the pack, so give them a pass, and dump on the raiders.
lamont "big dummy" jordan is closer to gabriel than moss. he will fade away soon enough, and be forgotten by all.
The name in camp I keep hearing is Cooper. Cooper was cut at the end of camp last year. Nobody signed him, and Kiffin then picked him up toward the latter part of the season. He immediately made our special teams better.
All off season, whenever someone needed a player to talk to hanging out at Raiders HQ, Cooper was there. He's worked the entire off season, apparently working to keep from ever being cut again.
He's been an animal in practice. While he's been running with the second team, he takes it upon himself to make the plays that lift up the team around him. I like Cooper a lot, and I'm glad he's on our side.
Abraham Lincoln is my Great Grandson! And we used to avoid T-Rex's on the way to cave-writing class!
Got you all beat! Hey H, pass some of that over here...
Camp is becoming quite promising now that the pads are on. And that is a GOOD sign! That means hitting takes high priority around here. Coop, set the bar high buddy!
K.Harris is blocking well, our goal line O can score more than half the time, O'Niel is a hell of a lead blocker, Grove is a new man, Williams shows good run support, G.Wilson is the 2nd coming of Atkinson... Man, those Donkos are going to freaking pay for their past sins come Monday Night. FUQ Shannarat!
Psycho
Blanda,
Speak of the devil, we both mention Coop at the same time. I feel the same as you.
The great thing is he doesn't mind playing backup. He still brings his "A" game without question, much like Fargas.
I hope he gets diecent play time because he can really get into people's heads.....and asses.
Psycho
PatriotsDynasty
So, who here from Raiderland will be watching Andre Tippett get inducted into the HOF later tonight?
GO PATRIOTS!!!!
Without question, every team in the NFL needs a guy like Coop... he is a veteran prescence, a guy who relishes contact, has no problem being a back up, and adds solid ST play. A guy like Coop has the perfect demeanor to play the role of a ST leader and gets off on being a balls to the wall, kamikaze hitter. Coop knows he isn't the best athlete but he makes up for it with his love & knowledge for the game of football. The last time I checked, football is a physical, violent, contact sport. If the Raiders had more players on D who played with Coop's spirit we would be much better off. I'm hoping that Wilson will add that spark where the entire D feeds off of his energy and hits and rally to the ballcarrier.
Calico Jack
P.S. A few nights ago I saw some of the most amazing Muay Thai (Thai boxing) matches from ringside. These Thai warriors who weighed between 105lbs to 155lbs were awe inspiring with martial arts displays of aggression ... knees, elbows, fists, kicks delivered with BAD intentions. Can't wait to get back to the States to see some hard core NFL football!
Walker wanted to retire and give his signing bonus back... and Al didn't let him? Maybe he is senile? This is looking like the only mistake the Raiders made in the offseason. I'm not sure how you can salvage anyone that isn't even sure if he wants to play or not.
Dorsey has a hurt knee... darn. I'd sure hate to see him have a career of injury problems. ;)
OMG! WTF!!! Javon Walker talked out of retiring from Al Davis, in which Walker was willing to give us back at least 11 million dollars back from his guarantee out of the 16 mil of his signing bonus!!!!! This kind decision making on part of Fidel AL Castro, no wonder makes Kiffin and loyal coherent (not including BLANDAROCKED and his nut sack juggler friends) scratch and shake heads whe it was a blessing in the skys after seeing what a real bone head player we got out of him after Vegas trip and now contemplating retirement and then had to be convinced to stay on team.....who needs that shit?!?! man o man he was doing us a big favor to cut or loses sooner than later and we choose the ladder because why our goofy ass owner Al crypt from the tales skeleton Davis thinks that this guy fits into his philosophy of winning attitude formula?? didnt we just let go of that kind of chicken shit attitude with La mount dancing machine Jordan?? I tell you if this doesnt convince you (Blanda and others like him with delusional ways of thinking and spin docs on hand) that our owner is off his rocker than man just watch and see what a golden opportunity to get ride of our supposed # 1 slotted wide out does this year....I mean come on people we wouldnt of have to pay this guy on his way out (he is already one foot out of the football filed mentally) with minimal cost to us and we could then picked up someone or several other wide outs from free agency and not be effected by salary cap at all!!! ahhhhhhhhhhhh man ALLLL your killing us man! Trust me its like the SF Giants getting out cleanly with Barry Zitto contract at no huge cost to them or like Baron Davis of the Golden State Warriors doing them a favor and opting out and going some where else with that big undeserving contract, with his pissing attitude thinking he is top 5 guard in the league but really under plays that and mind is only on camera time for hollywood..... i say again why do we need this in our team if we are looking to make a big splash this year and yes we bought Walkers bluff on the turn card by going all in but in turn we pushed pot on the river card and all is well again and we can play it out again!!! ahhhh Al your crazyer than cat shit !
ummm, that last anon wasn't me but he does have good points and i do agree with you gary.
faidas suck as is usual, the 49ers will beat them at they own house! Oh yeah, it's pre season eh faida fanatics, so at least it will only count as a Bi-Atch slapping, but you'll see 16 regular season losses so prepare yourselves! Just cringe baby, the losing starts next weekend, oh don't forget to defend the "notion" har yar grrrr ugh uh mnhph ugh yar yor the autumn wind is a bi-atch slap from the Niners !!!!!!!
It sounds like Walker hasn't been doing well in camp, and Kiffin seems very worried about keeping his head in the game after this episode. We don't know enough of the details to COMPLETELY throw Al under the bus here (as so many others are always willing to do) but this doesn't make much sense to me. It might have been best to just cut our losses.
Oh well.. sometimes long-shots do come through.
Maybe he can suddenly pull his head out of his ass and get back to playing some football like he did for GB years ago?
>>>
I mean come on people we wouldnt of have to pay this guy on his way out (he is already one foot out of the football filed mentally) with minimal cost to us and we could then picked up someone or several other wide outs from free agency and not be effected by salary cap at all!!!
>>>
Hmmm, maybe this is why Al didn't simply let him go... I don't think you can lose a player under contract without having a large cap hit.... Jmacs blog:
http://tinyurl.com/6hod7n
The Raiders options with Walker are limited _ either pay him and play him or cut him and absorb a salary cap hit which would be difficult to absorb for a team right up against the cap.
Good to be back in the huddle Raider brothers...would like to be up in Napa and sneak into the scrimmage with SF...lotta pluses in camp from what you can read; like to see Kelly and Sands in better shape and not playing fat [reading between the lines Kelly is working hard to get in shape by Week 1, Sands not so much] and like to see Hall looking more like Asomugha than Elvis Patterson...
walker's head clearly is not in the game, and he's messed up. i think it has to do a lot with the beating he took in vegas, coming out to training camp, and taking some hits.
that's a good sign that his head is foggy, and he could be in trouble for a concussion. we should talk him out of retirement, but we should send him to a psychiatrist. he sounds like he has a lot of demons he needs to work through. i think his "announcement" to kiffin is a cry for help; and that is what has kiffin worried.
my prayers are for walker, not that he stay with the team, but that he gets the proper help he needs before he goes barret robbins on us.
Walker probably has severe depression, where one day he can be in Vegas having the time of his life, and the next walking around the Raiders training camp with his tail between his legs. The Raiders should immediately protect their investment and hire a babysitter and a psychiatrist for Walker.
Even if Walker is on his game, we could still be thin at WR.
Ah, NYRaider makes sense. Yes, Walker is showing classic signs of severe depression. I've know others who have suffered from it. The first problem of depression is denial. Walker refuses to talk about anything, and refuses to acknowledge that anything is wrong.
Before any treatment can be designed for Walker, he has to recognize the problem and agree to be helped. From Walker thus far, we don't seem anywhere close to that. Without treatment, down the line, this could result in suicide or even violence committed on others. As Walker appears to be a gentle man, suicide is the likely conclusion. It is that serious.
Walker's retirement won't eliminate the Raider's cap problems of this season. The $11 million signing bonus is Al's money, so it's up to him to decide whether he just wants to get rid of Walker, or help him through his problems. It is typical of Al to take the latter road, which is one of the reasons he's popular with players.
As for tiny minded commenters, who go limply and anonymously through life, take your head out of your colon and read a book.
If Walker is suffering from severe depression, and to me the signs point in that direction, it puts his Vegas trip in perspective.
What Walker was attempting to do was to withdraw so deep inside of himself (through alcohol - self medication) that he could shut out the rest of the world. While he was giving others the responsibility of watching over him and moving his body from place to place, Walker wasn't even there. That's why he has little memory of the events of that night.
What isn't being said by "sources," is that Davis is very likely attempting to get some psychological help for Walker. If that's true, we won't hear much from that aspect of things as it's all confidential. So Walker may be under treatment even right now, we just don't and won't know.
Davis has been through this before. H, does the name Warren Wells ring a bell?
The difference between Davis and someone like Shannarat, is that Shannarat views his players as a kind of property. If one of his belongings goes defective, for whatever reason, he believes you just replace it and wash your hands of it, then get on with business as usual.
Davis, on the other hand, views football players as legends, as heroes, and most of all as human beings. Davis believes that he brought Walker here, and while he's here, Davis holds some responsibility for him.
My thoughts on Javon Walker. Can anyone say Barret Robbins?
Psycho,
Could be one of by best batches. They say two weeks in the bottle and it's ready. I think three weeks is best. The weekend was week two and it was already pretty good.
Looking forward to listenting to the game on the Internet with a cold red ale.
Here's a good article:
http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=441168
Just a decent level headed article without the hater mentality.
H
Blanda,
Warren Wells was a huge talent. Davis tried to help him, but in the end he couldn't. Can't recall how many, but he spent some time in prison.
Right now Walker hasn't gotten violent like Wells did. Intervention now may prevent that. In a case like that it's more important to get him help than to get him on the field right now.
If it is clinical depression, it would explain his being out of shape. I've seen it at the VA. Folks with clinical depression have very little motivation to do anything.
I suggest a good hobby like homebrewing (just kidding). But, he needs to find something he enjoys doing to fill his off time.
H
Wells was indeed major. I think he had a four or five year career, averaging something like 23 yards a catch. To do that for a season is breathtaking. To do it for four years running is legendary. I remember one game against the Jets when Lamonica threw up a game ending prayer. A crowd waited for the ball in the end zone. The ball bounced off the outstretched hands of the crowd toward the left corner of the end zone. Wells came from nowhere, sliding on his stomach, his open hands in front of him. He caught the ball just a couple of inches off the turf. I think Bill King used up about three "Holy Toledos" on that one.
Mmmmmm, beer...
And who the hell is Andre Tippett?!?
I only pay attention to Hall Of Famers who won anything.
Psycho
H,
I did mention Barrett in my post.
The media is having a "hay day" with this too. Saying that Davis talking Walker out of retirement is further proof of a dispute between he and Lane. Okay? I guess I'm missing something (like the evidence of "further proof"). I know that Lane and Davis have their problems, but both admit to working through them, but using this as evidence to suggest that there is a continued "war faction" amongst the two is absurd.
I'll bet that Lane doesn't want Walker to retire as much as Al doesn't want him to retire; mainly because there is nobody to replace him; and it goes against our cap this year.
I hope Walker gets the help he needs, and gets his head screwed on right to be effective. And some of you think I'm crazy for thinking that we still need to upgrade at Left Tackle and WR.....
Nate... who are the players we are supposed to "upgrade" at WR and LT right now?
Please name the players available that would be an upgrade. While you're at it, name the kicker we should replace Jani with.
Thanx in advance.
Steve Smith may be available to trade at WR. Chris Henry is available, as well as Eric Moulds, Koren Robinson, and Peerless Price. All of these guys are capable of bringing competition at the WR position.
I have also mentioned very capable Left Tackles in previous posts that can give Kwame Harris some good competition (Nat Dorsey, Stockar McDougle, etc), or did you forget?
As far as kickers, old man Morten Anderson, and John Carney both would bring good competition.
Nate,
It's been apparent we needed to upgrade at left tackle for at least three years.
It was assumed, twice I might add, that Gallery would be the one. But, alas, it didn't happen. If he plays even better at guard this year I hope they leave him alone. He may wind up being our best guard since "The Wiz".
All that being said I actually consider Harris an upgrade at LT. Not much of an upgrade, but an upgrade nonetheless.
With the near miracle Tom Cable pulled off last year I'm really interested in what he can do for an encore. It's a good bet we will be fairly solid from guard to guard and that is way above what we had two years ago.
What I'm having the hardest time with is the false starts. Since I normally look for simple solutions, here's my suggestion. Earplugs.
There are sonic earplugs that block out certain sounds above a particular decibel level. Sound is directional. True, it will echo, but each time it bounces off something it loses strength. If you are the left tackle put one in your left ear. If you are the right tackle put one in your right ear. At lease that would cut down on the confusing noise coming from that direction.
You can get the earplugs starting around 10 bucks a pop. So, why not try. The new ones are phenomenal. I wish they had them 30 years ago. I might not be wearing hearing aids today.
H
It's unlikely that we would bring anyone else into the fold at this juncture. The next few weeks will be mostly about paring down the roster. Exceptions may include injury, a QB, or retirement (Walker).
It's that time of year that you kind of accept the hand you've been dealt. Go Raiders!
Actually nyraider, it's never too late to evaluate. This is the time of year you should be assessing your strengths and weaknesses, especially on the player performance level. You cut the players who don't fit your system, and replace them via trade or signing a free agent. Learning the playbook, and how a player can learn the playbook is the biggest key. But a veteran who's been around awhile, usually knows and understands the simple concepts of various playbooks; and can adjust their play accordingly while he learns.
This is the time to make those evaluations on your own players, and look for veterans that can fill those weaknesses in place of those players who are showing they don't fit.
If it was the time of year when you accept the hand dealt, then the rosters would be set; and the season would be near the end. It's never too late to evaluate.
http://www.yardbarker.com/users/DarrenMcFadden
The problem is that the Raiders are in no position to play musical chairs during this training camp. They currently have one roster spot available (once they put Wilson on the IR list because of his broken leg). My guess is that they will bring in somebody to fill that spot, they just aren't certain what they are going to do yet.
Walter is showing a lot at camp. If he functions well in the pre-season, we might be able to trade him for something substantial. In that case we'd need to bring another arm in to replace him. Will Walker decide to retire after all. If he does, will we bring in another WR or pray that we have enough in the fold?
Often times, if you wait to see how things develop, the answers to questions will present themselves. There are always injuries in the pre-season, and those may direct the hands of Kiffin and Davis.
Whatever moves the Raiders make must cancel out the financial liabilities.
they have one position that they can fill with either a left tackle, or a wide receiver. i think they are trying to evaluate what they need more.
it isn't musical chairs, it is filling the gaps while you can. to do nothing is to show your fans that you are content with mediocrity; and you quickly become the kansas city chiefs.
Nate - I agree that teams will watch the waiver wire and continue to evaluate needs, but I don't expect much new player activity from the Raiders. Do you, honestly?
As far as filling the vacant roster spot, personnel moves were a huge issue last year -- e.g., getting players onto IR or off PUP in order to fill more critical needs -- that simply didn't get done.
The cause may well be a breakdown in communication between our head coach and the GM. Do these guys actually speak to each other?
i heard that stu schwiegart was waived by the skins.
did anyone else hear this ?
if true, i'm surprised it took this long for washington to figure out that stu is a big talker, with no game.
The critical line in my last post was the last one. The Raiders have no cap room left. If Walker retires, we still won't have cap room. Al Davis will have 11 million dollars in his pocket that can't be spent on player salaries. That's why they call it "bonus" money.
Whatever moves the Raiders make from this point forward, must be done through careful addition and subtraction. In other words, those players coming in can't be any more expensive than the players going out.
Now, my understanding is that Wilson, the guy with the broken leg, plays this season for the league minimum. That means whoever replaces him will have to come in for the league minimum. The considerations are much larger than just moving personnel around.
Yep, Schweigert's gone.
Gotta love this quote from the article:
"Schweigert, a 4-year NFL veteran, originally signed with the Redskins on June 2. He was expected to battle Reed Doughty for a starting job at safety in training camp, but the competition never materialized.
Schweigert played in Sunday night's Hall of Fame Game against the Indianapolis Colts. He was late getting over in coverage, allowing Colts quarterback Quinn Gray to throw a 30-yard touchdown pass to wide receiver Onrea Jones."
Good ol' Stu...
Depth Chart as it stands for this weeks game....
http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/raiders/
archives/014362.html
Raiders Team Report Aug 4, 2008
Michael Huff is free at last.
RB Darren McFadden has been utilized in a variety of ways in the backfield and has been a revelation. The Raiders want him to split carries with Justin Fargas, but they might be tempted to give him most of the work. …
PantyRaider...Let the Hitting Begain!!!
Michael Bush ran over middle linebacker Kirk Morrison in a goal-line drill last week.
Coach Lane Kiffin said it was the highlight of practice. "That was our first chance to see what we've all hoped that Mike's going to be," he said. Bush has a shot at becoming the short yardage specialist because of his size, although he runs a bit high for that role and Darren McFadden is a potent downhill runner.
"One-Two Punch" Is on the way....
Yep, Stu is gone. Now, just what was his reason for being out of position with us?
Oh yeah. The coaches.
I guess the 'skins coaches are just as bad as ours.
H
h,
It's not Stu's fault that he was out of position against the Colts, and was cut from the Redskins. It is the Raiders' fault (according to him) for teaching him bad habits. :D
Nate... who are we supposed to trade to get Steve Smith, and where do we find cap room to sign him... or any of the other players you mentioned to bring in so you can be happy?
I kinda prefer dealing in a reality-based Raider experience... you seem to think Al should be playing fantasy football or something... and get angry when he doesn't. You wear me out.
We can trade a '09 draft pick, and maybe one of our younger receivers, or player that isn't panning out in our system (Mario Henderson for example).
The cap room would be the tricky part of that; which is why Steve Smith is more wishful thinking than reality (the same can be said for Chris Henry, unless he would be willing to take minimum this season, while the Raiders defer his bonus, and other incentives to another season).
Any of the Left Tackle players mentioned (and some of the WR's), you can bring in to camp, sign them for the vet's minimum, with incentives to make more at the end of this season and next season. We can do that and still be under cap.
By the way, if we would have let Walker retire, his $$ would not have counted against this year's salary cap. The reason being is the monies against the cap becomes effective 30 days before the start of the season (which was yesterday). So if we let Javon retire last Friday, his contract would not have gone against our salary cap.
Typo-correction, it should have been: "The reason being is the monies against the cap become (no "s") effective 30 days before the start of the season (which was yesterday)."
The NFL released its "Fan Code of Conduct" yesterday. This is the sure sign that corporatism has completely taken over the country.
It seems like half the players in the NFL did some prison time last year, but the NFL wants to tell the fans how it expects them to behave.
i hear there's a football team on mars that plays the perfect system for stu schweigert.
as we know, poor stu is always put into a bad system, by bad coaches.
when will they learn, so we might finally see the unbelievable talent of schweigert ?
"GOOOOoooooo Jetttttttsss"...
Kick some "Patsy" ASS....They got their "QB" from the "CheesePack"....I hope he has a great season except when we play him....
Question....
Game time Friday is shown as 7:00pm on the schedual but 10:00pm on the Pre-Game Match-Up at Raiders.com....Which time is correct...Give me the Pacific time and I can add 14 hours to know what time to be on-line here in Thailand....Don't know yet if I will be able to get a Video Bradcast but I can buy the season on internet radio for only $30 and listen live....nfl.com has it as the "Field Pass" for any out of area fans who don't get the game coverage....The radio broadcast is down-loadable for 2 days following the game if you want to save it to disc as I will to listen again later....
Starving for some action...Too much talk and no hitting is driving me nuts...Too many questions....What do we have and what will we look like...
"JRus"....
"McFabulous"....
"BushMan"....
"WR"s-n-"TE"s....
"OL"....
"D" BackField....
"DL"...
"LB"s...
Slap the hell out of the "CryBaby"s Boys....
PantyRaider...Where's My Beer!!!
What about us poor saps that pay out for SundayTicket each year? We just get screwed because NFL network only plays the games it wants to play?
I wish dishNet had sunday ticket I would be off of DirecTV so damn fast!
It would have been far more interesting to see Favre go to the Bears or Vikings. Unfortunately, sending him to the Jets not only instantly improves another AFC team but may change the complexion of our schedule (we play the Jets).
Favre is a gamer (think Rich Gannon squared), and has beaten the Raiders before on sheer determination. He’s the anti-Brooks. If Brooks was half the gamer Favre is, he would have won at least 3 games for the Raiders.
And as happy as we might think we are to see the Pats get some level of competition in their division, we’re better off if they just keep everybody else down. Pats going 15-1 (losing to the Raiders of course) probably helps the Raiders reach their playoff goal, IMO.
I don't have that much concern regarding Favre. First off, no matter how similar the Jets offense is to GB's, he still has to get comfortable with new terminology and concepts, while arriving two weeks late to camp. The Jets will be forced, especially early in the season, to simplify their offense. Also, it is very important for the QB to be familiar with his targets. That's going to take him a couple of months because he hasn't had the benefit of attending any of the Jets' OTAs.
Plus Favre has done some considerable damage to his reputation. Frankly, he's acted like a big baby who can't stand the idea of being without adulation.
Blanda - I understand what you're saying, but Favre isn't exactly a rookie. He's a 16-year vet who knows as much or more about offensive (and defensive) formations as the Jets coaches. And you can throw away the playbook if Favre needs to improvise. That's how he makes his living. IMO, it's like the Jets just won the lottery. It should be interesting.
No doubt in my mind. The Jets are stupid. They released Pennington (a pretty good QB) for the one year rental of Brett Favre. Well, one year at a time anyway. Because he'll end every season wondering if he'll retire this year, until he hears enough people begging him to come back. Then, when he decides it's time to hang it up, if a few key voices plead with him, he'll change his mind again.
It's likely that Pennington will be too expensive to back up Russell. But I wish him well.
Who was it here? Was it Scorpio complaining about our lack of hitters? Our rookie Branch can't wait for the preseason opener so he can hit somebody. I'm looking for him to release all that pent up frustration from camp.
I also like his approach to returns. He doesn't dance around. He finds the crease and explodes full speed through it.
Blanda said - "No doubt in my mind. The Jets are stupid. They released Pennington (a pretty good QB) for the one year rental of Brett Favre."
This method doesn't sound familiar at all? This is kind of what Al Davis does every year, isn't it? Play for “the now.”
Pennington hasn’t been the same QB since his injury, and couldn’t even secure the starting role with the depth they had. Meanwhile, the Jets have added players like Alan Feneca to protect their new toy. I’ve never been a fan of the Jets, but they certainly have something to be excited about.
And as shortsighted as this move may appear, it will sell tickets.
Question Please....
What time is the game in OakTown Friday night....7:00pm or 10:00pm Pacific....I am 14 hours later here but get 2 differant start times on the net at raiders.com...Please reply...
The Jets will be better with their new toys and maybe give some punishment to the "PatsyCheatster"s with their new "DL-LB" they took in the 1st rd....Yes we have to play them once but they play the "Patsy"s twice....3 times if they can make the play-offs....
I will celibrate the losses as they come when they come to that worthless franchise....Just like the SadFranchiseWiners who where the "Cheatster"s of the 80's-90's along with that "Policy" dick who went to the "Dawg"s....
PantyRaider...Smash-Mouth!!!!
Jordan had 19 carries for 76yds...1 TD with his longest run 10yds...4yd average and looks like he got most of the work so he will be out with an injury by the start of the season....
Panty,
The game is 7pm Pacific, 10pm Eastern.
ThankYou Nate....
The NFL are liars as usual...Their add said radio archives were available after the game ended threw "Field-Pass" but they can't be down loaded and can only be heard durring brodcast hours whenever that is....3 hours of cell phone service to listen to a broadcast would be a ridicilous price to pay so time to cancel out...I think there is another way to get the radio brodcast threw the net....Have to search for it...
PantyRaider....GameTimeYet!!!!
You can listen to tonight's game at KSFO.Com. I am listening to the pre-game show right now.
Anno....
You are right...@ raiders.com the radio brodcast is free so why did I pay for it....Time to cansel the free trial of "FieldPass".....
Nothing big yet....
PantyRaider....Excitement!!!!
Raiders gained 49yds on 10 carries in the 1st Qt rushing and gave up 25yds on 8 carries....The Rush-"D" may be improving but where is our passing game....
"McFabulous" is 6/27yds....
http://www.justin.tv/kostatz
Click on me. You will not regret it.
"87"....Raiders rushing 1st 1/2...
"32"....Rushing yds gave up 1st 1/2...
"23"....Raiders passing yds 1st 1/2...
"114"...Passing yds gave up 1st 1/2...
Nice punt return and we would also have a "Field-Goal" if we had our "K"....
Nice "D" preasure on the "QB" and Rush-"D"...
PantyRaider...Mixed-Emotions!!!!!
"250"....yds Rushing....
"110"....yds Passing....
The rushing will open up the passing game as the season goes along....Walter did a very good job which was nice to see....
M Bush -n- "McFabulous" will be a great 1-2 punch....Rankin will add to the mix along with Fargas...Eche does not have much of a chance to make the team...
"WR"s...Higgins will stick for his return skills....Curry-Carter-Walker will be the core with at least one more added for depth....Maybe two more....We have some big "WR"s who could turn into quality players...
"DL"...We have improved both in the run "D" and the Pass-Rush Preasure....
Our Secondary was not up to it tonight...But that will come along with time...We did have "TO"s which was a hugh plus...If we can be difficult to run on and strong against the Pass we will be a "PO" Team in "08"...
We gave up 70yds on the ground to a team who could run the ball well last year...But we gave up 200+yds Passing and that could have hurt us....
My intial grade for the game is
"O"-Rushing....A+
Passing....C+ mostly Walter
"D"-Rushing....B+
Passing....B- mostly "TO"s
PantyRaider....Positives!!!!..
"B+"
Don't look now but the Raiders are #1 Rushing and #5 Total "D"....
#7 Total "O"....
Didn't get to listen to the game, but in reading the reports and stats I started wondering.
With Rankin having such a good camp would they be tempted to put him on the final roster? If so, would that mean 6 total running backs (2 FB and 4 TB)?
Only 1 sack. Would like to have seen 2 or 3.
Walter appeared to be the best of the three. Maybe consider Tui as a receiver, the guy can run.
What is the reported injury to Jano? Anyone know.
H
One other quick hit.
Time of Possession +9 for the good guys.
Conclusion - Our starters were better than their starters and so were our backups. It could be a long season for the Whiners. Got to get the passing game in gear.
H
H.....
There has been a lot of talk about "McFab" playing "WR"....Most likely as a "Slash" "RB-WR-QB"....But if so it will open up room for another "RB" like Rankin who looks to be a keeper....Our back-field is going to be spictacular....Few teams have one quality "RB" but we apear to have 4...
"McFab"---6-2 @ 210
"BushMan"-6-1 @ 245
Fargas----6-1 @ 220
Rankin----6-1 @ 205
All have speed but BushMan also has the power....Good hands....
Add to that the 2 quality "FB"s....
Oren O'Neal------5-11 @ 245
Justin Griffith--6-0 @ 230
6 roster spots worth filling....What other team has a backfield to compair....SD has one back and so do the "Squaw"s....One injury away from disaster....Who is there in "DonkeyKong"....
If we add "McFab" in the mix with the "WR"s we have....
Curry 6-2 @ 210
Carter 6-3 @ 200
Walker 6-3 @ 215
McFab 6-2 @ 210
Higgins 5-11 @ 185
Schilens 6-4 @ 225
Depth....
Holland 6-1 @ 195
Drisan James 5-11 @ 185
McFoy 6-1 @ 200
Arman Shields 6-1 @ 195
Watkins 6-2 @ 190
How many do we keep on the team...All have speed...Higgins is the return man so he sticks....
We will have the "Rushing Title" and that will break the "Passing Game" loose....I can't wait to see what happens the first time we spread "McFab" out as a "WR"...Who do they cover with his speed....
I want to see the "BushMan" in the "BackField" with "McFab"-Walker-Curry split out..."McFab"-n-Walker on one side with Curry on an island drawing single coverage..."McFab" takes off like a rocket Down-Field so the "D" does not have time to think about their coverage as they send 2 "DB"s after the "Speedster" to try to make up ground in coverage....Walker is let free undernieth and Curry comes free accross the middle...."TE" Miller has a slow "LB" heading for the side-lines and the "BushMan" has a huge hole up the middle....
"JRus" are you ready....
PantyRaider.....MonDayNight!!!!!
Panty you son of a bitch, 100 was mine!!! Props though for showing up from the other side of the globe.
I just got done watching the game as I was M.I.A. Friday.
I hope we make a roster spot for Rankin 'cause that guy can play! Last year it was Etch, now this guy is my #4. All of our RB's looked amazing. Bush is the real deal. For you guys who missed it, his 5 yard TD was a thing of beauty. He danced around like 3 guys, taking it opposide-side, then flat out ran over some safety to cross the line. Some other impressive plays too.
He looks so much like Bettis it's scary.
McFadden hits the holes fast and keeps his legs churning. And the run blocking was outstanding all around. Green had some impressive 2nd level blocks. McQuistan did well. Grove looked solid.
Psycho
I think we need to get JaMarcus more work next week. I felt like he never got into the game. The passing game is about the only thing we're not doing well yet. Better to take our lumps early and give it at least a half to sync up.
Sp. Teams looks like a strength again. Higgins looks much improved and the blocking is there.
We're going to have a top 5 Defense. We play the run much better. Wilson is a beast, the guy will be the catalyst that helps us take that next step. Morrison seems to have improved his run D with better support around him. Hartwell looks solid, hope he makes it. R.Thomas got the start and looked solid as usual.
Huff!! Solid game, great tackling. Props to that guy and I hope he proves the haters wrong this year. Wilson again makes an impact on that one.
Probably the most exciting thing I saw on D was the willingness to blitz, and the QB pressure overall. We chased QB's all day long even though the stats only show one sack.
Burgess looks 100% ready. Kelly is going to do wonders inside. He gets such a great jump and he's strong enough to use that momentum to really do some damage. I saw him make a great run-stop by holding the middle and spinning into the RB. Sapp never would've made that play as well as Kelly. It's going to help the LB's too with the DT's actually taking up space, eating those blocks.
G.Warren got good QB pressure. K.Edwards too.
The overall felling I got is that we've gotten a lot better since this time last year. We just need to break in JaMarcus and get the ball moving better in the passing game and we'll be just fine. Having the #1 running game will sure help, wink wink.
Honestly guys, I'd rather be in the Raiders shoes than any other team right now. We're so young and on the verge of something special as long as we keep the family intact. I'd hate to be the Patsies on the verge of 'retiring' much like we did a few years back. I'd hate to be the Giants who must stuggle to stay on top with less firepower. I'd hate to be the Steelers or Chefs who can no longer block. I'd hate to be playing for Norv Turner....
Psycho
let's try and focus here. The raiders let Moss go for a 4th rounder because that's all they could get. The pats took heat for trading for him just the same. Looker room cancer, selfish, quitter, thats what the press said. Turns out he's still the best receiver in the NFL. The Raiders have been the worst team in football these past 5 years, Randy was here for two. Obviously he didnt flourish or give it his all while he was here. By the same token, neither did the Raider organization. Before Eli scampered away from 3 D-linemen and threw his hail Mary, Moss had caught what would have been the super bowl winning touchdown. It didnt work out in Oakland because the organization had yet to lay a foundation for winning, plain and simple.
Psycho,
I like your enthusiasm. Being a glass half full kind of guy and all that.
I agree Russell needs more work. Next game will be a stiffer test. And, it will be on network if I read the listings properly. The Flaming Thumbtacks have a fairly stiff defense. If we run the ball well against them I will probably move the glass to around 78%.
My only worry at this point is, this was the Whiners after all. I honestly believe Nolan is on more of a hot seat than Kiffin.
I wonder of there are any plans to put Bush in the backfield with Fargas or McFadden. I would hope so. Maybe we revert to the old two back backfield. Like the old Packer teams with Taylor/Horning. It would be interesting to see a series or two during preseason with one of those combinations the whole series.
H
All of these running backs suggest a trade. We can't use 4 running backs in the same backfield. And one of the things I mentioned ealier is that what ever trades we make need negative out against the cap.
If Rankin is the real deal, since his contract is minimal, we'll only be able to trade him for another "prospect." It's likely the Raiders would move either Fargas or Bush in order to get a quality WR.
Beyond that, I'd say the defense was night and day better than last year. They played agressively and they tackled.
I'm not worried about Russell. The niners blitzed early, as expected. He spent his time dumping off, but he looked like he was in command. Walter looked good. Even Tui looked better than in his first stint with us.
The O-Line played pretty decent.
Oh, and I noticed that the Raiders took my advice. They took Knapp out of the booth and put him on the sideline. I believe that a very young team needs that direct interaction with the coaches.
Blanda,
I agree with the possibility of a trade. But, we still need help on kick returns. Higgins did a nece job with punts, but maybe Rankin can make some noise on kickoffs. I hear he has the speed to do it.
I would prefer not to see either Fargas or Bush leave.
Besides, you know how Big Al is on loyalty, and Fargas is about as loyal as they come. And, Bush could be the secret 3rd down weapon. Strong enough to get the tough yards on third and one, but with good hands and enough speed to get out on the third and three situations.
Friday will be a better test. With Kerse/Haynesworth the o-line will have its hands full.
And, while we did a great job running the ball, The Flaming Thumbtacks put up 340 on the Neutered Sheep.
Now, the Neutered Sheep did win fewer games than us, but only by one.
We'll have a much better idea on how the O-Line is progressing after matching up with Haynesworth and Company.
Carr should be given a special reception from Cooper when we kickoff, considering how he ragged on us when he wasn't re-signed.
By the way, thus far Jordan has kept a fairly low profile when it comes to talking about his former team.
H
One of the things I hated that was brought about by only signing Hall of Famers looking to retire as Raiders was the habit the coaching staffs got into of running light camps. Kiffin has been all about hard work at camp.
JMac talks of putting McFadden in a glass case until the season starts, but I think that's exactly the wrong thing to do. This is a young team, and the more they learn about each other on the field of play, the better they will eventually be.
JMac is now reporting that we are about to sign Adam Archuleta, and possibly releasing Wesley.
Good.
What about WR? What about LT?
My concern, we played the Whiners, now we have a little more stiff competition. We did not protect Russell well on the pass plays. Walter had more chances with the passing game and it seemed to come together for him. Kiffin admitted to protecting Russell's arm, but will give him a better chance this week and next. So I will be interested to see how our pass protection is.
That is going to be the key to the make or break season; and we have to play better than 18 points against the Whiners. I know, I know, it's a meaningless pre-season game! Tell that to the coaches doing the evaluation of the team; and the players trying to make the team.
If we're looking to trade a RB it has to be Bush. Though I'd hate to see it happen.
I'm telling you, this guy will be a special player.
If someone else out there agrees who is able and willing to put up something big then maybe we pull the trigger. I just have a feeling that we'll regret it later no matter what we'd get for him now.
Psycho
I'm wondering. Am I the only one that thought so, or did others feel like we were seeing different formations and more of them than we saw last year. Actually the last two years. Well, actually the last four years.
Blanda,
I thought so too. But, then again it could have been the beer since I wasn't able to see the game. Wait a minute, I couldn't even listen to the game. Must have been an out of body experience. I'm always with them in spirit.
The local town had a concert in the park by a Jimmy Buffet tribute band. The beautiful Mrs. H wanted to go. I was hesitant until I was told you could bring your own beer.
So, we met some friends there and had a great time. The band was actually very good especially the dancing girls.
Those Parrot Heads are some strange people. However, since it was a family friendly event the band didn't do "Why don't we get drunk and screw".
We returned home at 10:00 eastern time and no internet. So, I had another beer.
H
I see we signed Adam Archuleta. Good move. The plan is to play him at linebacker. The released Wesley if I understand correctly.
H
I think the media is beginning to misrepresent the player shortage in camp as an Al Davis problem and not a general NFL problem.
What they have stopped mentioning in the last week or so is that the number of players are far more limited this year because there is no NFL Europe exemption. Every team, not just the Raiders, are feeling the pinch. But in Oaktown, everything is Al's fault.
Teams have to be wiser in terms of balancing their roster. The Raiders currently have 11 LBs. Do they really need 11 in camp while they are short at DB. I'm not sure of the logistics of the Archuleta decision. Who wanted him? And did we need yet another LB while we have 3 CBs suffering from injury. To a great extent, teams are going to have to learn to adjust to the new rules, or allow more athletes in camp.
It's interesting that they have had Jano comment on not having another kicker this camp to provide rest time for him, but the only camp during Jano's career I can remember, where there was more than one kicker, was Jano's first season.
Blanda,
As backup (you can always count on me), when the NFL, in their infinite wisdom, took away the NFL Europe roster exemptions, they did not expand the camp rosters to make up for the change. In essence, they have reduced the number of camp roster spots.
When Kiffin says he can only control what he can control, he could be refering to the NFL roster limitations.
Having said all of that, it doesn't make sense to have that many linebackers in camp. But, defensive back is normally not a high injury position aside from the hamstrings and such. Last year we basically had the same starting DB's the whole season. Routt won the job from Washington.
I do worry about line depth on both sides of the ball.
The current problem with depth has more to do with the rule change and a lesser degree with the players brought in by the team.
Ouch, I suddenly had a thought and it hurt. I remember articles just before camps opening where there was a universal lament about the roster reduction.
Am I remembering correctly or is this just another out of body out of mind experience.
H
H,
That wasn't an out-of-body experience. You actually died for a minute bro.
Psycho
Psycho,
Actually I think this batch of beer was too good and I'm having residual affects.
But, then again, I've been accused of being out of my mind before.
H
Stu update: Schweigert's now a Giant. Considering what the Giants' D did in the Super Bowl, there'll be no blaming the coaches now if he screws up.
So this essentially turned out to be Schweigert for Gibril Wilson...a very lopsided "trade" in the Raiders favor, IMHO.
H,
I think the Giants got into some of your beer!
Psycho
You guys might find this interesting. I think we can come up with a few examples from OAK/KC games to back up these claims:
http://www.livescience.com/
culture/080811-referees-red.html
Psycho
Psycho, the theory doesn't fit. Our most controversial calls haven't come against KC. Not even in our own division.
Think of the imaculate reception - black. The snow job - blue. I can't think of a major controversial call where we lost out to a team wearing red.
don't know if anyone's mentioned this yet - no time to read everything right now but since we're playing the titans, i just hope one of our guys'll lay the wood to loudmouth chris carr!
Those "tuck rule" Patriots had a bit of red in their uni's didn't they? Does that count?
Blanda,
I agree it doesn't explain the most famous screw jobs. But it might explain a few.
Didn't we lose both Chef games two years ago on rediculous ref calls & non-calls? There ya' go, now we got prove of bias based on scientific study. Concious or not.
I'm just F'ing around. :)
Psycho
Psycho,
Could be. I remember a Chefs game a few years back. For some reason it just sticks in my mind.
Fourth quarter, Raiders driving for the go ahead score. Only about three or four penalties in the game total for the good guys. Zero holding.
Just inside the thirty on third down. Suddenly three consecutive plays three holding calls. Boom, third and 30+ out around the 50. Worse part, if I recall properly, we had made the first down on the first holding call. All game long and they pick that point to start calling holding.
If I had hypertension I would have stroked out that day.
It's not necessarily the controversial calls that get you.
H
But, then again, where these judges from communist countries?
If so, then are NFL referees communist?
Just food for thought.
H
Lechler hurt his quad and is out against Tennessee. Kiffin said they are flying in a punter, but he didn't know who it was (according to J-Mac). I hope it's Ray Guy.
Here ya' go H...
http://www.livescience.com/
culture/080815-beer-goggles.html
Psycho
Psycho,
Good one. Except it doesn't work with mirrors. After a beer or two I'm still just as wrinkled and gray as I was before.
This is one of the slowest news periods for the Raiders in some time. They're not even making crap up.
H
RT's blog is usually full this time of year. What's up?
Nice to see camp end on a few positive notes after a tough week offensively.
Our passing game is scaring me. And Kiffin is talking as if M.Henderson will start tomorow at LT and will likely get our QB killed!
He wasn't kidding about the lack of depth I see. We put all our cards in the Henderson basket...Not good.
Psycho
For anyone under the age of 50 who gives a crap.
Madden 2009 came out. We're only better than the 9ers, Dolphins and I think the Rams. Once again they got our safeties mixed up and Huff is playing SS (Last year they had him at FS...AHHHH!).
JaMarcus is only rated 83(of 100). Jordan made the team. Our LT is horrible. Richardson was shown no love at all. And understandably, our Sam LB is horrible no matter who you plug in.
Kelly is rated quite high surprisingly. Nnamdi got more speed this year, and everything else looks as you'd expect. Well, McFadden 'only' got a 97 in speed, which I think should be 99 :)
**************
It's always interesting to see a snapshot of the Raiders before the season, Madden is good for that.
I got a glimpse of what Kiffin is referring to. We have 2 hurting corners and absolutely no depth to spare. We're playing a backup OLB. Our WR's are good but nowhere close to NE, IND, CIN etc.
We should still be much improved don't get me wrong. But our CB, WR, and OT depth is just about non-existant. Losing just one key person in any one of those groups can change our entire season. Find some wood and knock on it.
Psycho
Psycho, the thing about Madden is that they pretty much build the teams so that they reflect the year before. They pretty much just plug in the 1st and 2nd draft pick and leave everything else the same.
If the real Raiders were crappy in 2007, the Madden Raiders will be crappy in 2008, no matter what the real 2008 Raiders do.
I will not be participating this year. Since they no longer manufacture the CPU version, I'm not in the mood to go out and buy an 800 dollar box to play a 35 dollar program.
psycho,
the thing about madden and the raiders is if you drop jordan, swap huff and wilson to their right positions and sign tui out of the free agent pool you can get the team rank from 71 to 86. to bad after that they still aren't that good of a team on the game. but for all you raider fans here i can tell you that they gave the raiders no love with the game. for example wilsons rating last year with the giants was 90 this year if you move him to SS you get 87 or leave him at FS and get 85.
the same thing for hall 95 last year 93 this year. but what do you expect from a nation of raider haters. but i still love the game and i think the raiders are still going to win atleast 9-10 games this year.
I just got back from a very enjoyable 3 week vacation in Thailand and I'm ready to dig into the Raiders 2008.
What is the general consensus on training camp? JRuss? Our OLine and WR corps? How did we look vs. SF?
Although I've been out of the loop the past 3 weeks, my general feeling is that our rushing attack could be very special indeed. My concerns are hangovers from 07 meaning our ability to protect #2, our passsing game becoming dynamic and reliable, and of course, our rush D.
Any RT regular who can get me up to speed, I appreciate it! :) CJ
Calico,
I didn't see the game, but these things I know.
The running game picked up right where it left off last year. Bush was the star on short yardage and out of the backfield. Got 20+ on a screen pass and has the ability to break a short yardage situation into a much longer gain. He go the first down on 4 of 5 tries if memory serves.
Russell was on a bit of a short leash when it comes to passing 2 of 5. Walter was 10 of 12. And Tui got 30+ on a naked bootleg.
Walker was a head case when camp opened, but appears to be turning it up a bit. Both tackles are still a question mark for now.
McFadden appears to be as advertised for now. The big surprise thus far on offense is Louis Rankin at running back. He was undrafted and is breaking some long ones in camp and last Friday. I guess you can't have too many good running backs.
The run defense appeared to be decent, but it was the Whinners. Tonights game will be a better test since the Flaming Thumbtacks put up 300+ on the Nutered Sheep.
The NFL's silly roster limitation when they did away with the NFL Europe exemptions has caused depth problems in camp when it comes to injuries. Players are now having to practice with injuries when in the past they could rest an extra day or two.
That's my synopsis. I know the guys will fill in any holes I left out.
Good to have you back.
H
Calico, H pretty much nailed it.
According to Kiffin, our chief concern is depth. A key DB injury or OL injury could sink us.
The defense has been much improved, but no tackling is allowed in camp so all we have to go on is the Whiner game. In camp, the defense has been blitzing the hell out of Russell, but a lot of that is for Russell's sake. Kiffin expects that opposing teams will challenge Russell in that way. Duh.
Harris has looked okay at LT, but he's out this week so Mario will fill in as a starter. Kiffin says, "Duck, JaMarcus!"
This year's game plan, apparently, is dink & dunk, and ram the ball down their throats. At least for that last part, we seem to have the running backs who can do it.
Blanda,
I know you guys have heard me say this before, but here I go again.
Dink and dunk is not a bad offense. We won three Super Bowls and appeared in another with similar type offenses. The difference this time is the running game, or at least the way it is shaping up. But, the O-line in this version is not as good on the pass protection. At least not at present.
Tonight will be a major test.
H
H, I think the way Kiffin sees it is that the passing game, right now, has little chance at success as long as defenses are willing to pin their ears back and bring it to JaMarcus. However, it appears that we might have the OL ability and the talent at RB to engineer 15 play drives (all runs) to the end zone. Eventually teams will have to play the run if they have trouble getting the ball back for their offenses. If our defense steps up this year, so much the better. And with four quality RBs, our runners should be well rested whenever they take the ball.
If opposing teams do find themselves forced to play the run, then Kiffin will take the chance with play action fakes and screens.
That's the season long strategy as I see it developing. With a little luck, and no serious injuries, I think that strategy could find 9 or 10 wins for us.
Depth is a big concern, particularly at some key positions, such as LT, LB, CB, etc.
As far as dink and dunk, this year's version has game-breakers such as McFadden, Bush and Walker, and perhaps a couple sleepers. Every time these guys touch the ball they are a threat to score.
Also, a big difference from previous versions (including last year), Russell has the arm to keep defenses honest.
Part of our past successes have come from the mere threat of a quick strike deep pass. Historically, we threw down field (hit or miss) just to let the defense know we could. Russell gives us that and more. It will be up to the O-line and our pass protection to make that a viable threat.
Blanda,
You know, I hate to give the Chefs a compliment, but here goes.
I remember a game back in the 70's where Otis Taylor was out along with a couple of other receivers. Hank Stram put in a full house backfield and only threw the ball to the backs or the tight end.
The other team was unprepared for any of the formations and the Chefs controled the ball, the clock and the score all game long.
Imagine with two high quality backs and two above average ones along with two solid fullbacks and a tight end like Miller. Hell with a little imagination this could be Back to the Future
H
I always respected Hank Stram. He could have been a Raider coach.
We'll throw it around pretty good tonight just to see how the protection holds up against an above average rush. Expect Jamarcus to check it down if there's pressure and if the protection is decent to take a couple deep shots
Thanks H, BR, and NYRaider for the update. I'm looking forward to watching tonight's game to get a better feel for the 2008 squad.
One of the points that NYR touched on could be the key ... guys that can take an ordinary short yardage play (ie. screens, dump offs, runs)and turn it into big plays. Certainly Bush, McFadden come to mind.
It will be critical for Kiffin to dial up the right mix of plays to keep the D's honest and create space for the home run hitters like McFadden. I'm anxiously awaiting the plays where McFadden is singled up with a LB in space.
In terms of our suspect pass protection, our backs and TEs will be important blockers to give Russell an extra second or 2 to find an open receiver.
Along the lines of Stram's full backfield, what about the idea of pairing Bush & McFadden in the backfield together?
I was happy to read from JMac's blog that Walker has really turned the corner in performance and his overall outlook. Nothing would please me more than to see Walker scorch the Donkeys on MNF.
The Donkos are going down...
Psycho
BR said, "H, I think the way Kiffin sees it is that the passing game, right now, has little chance at success as long as defenses are willing to pin their ears back and bring it to JaMarcus. However, it appears that we might have the OL ability and the talent at RB to engineer 15 play drives (all runs) to the end zone. Eventually teams will have to play the run if they have trouble getting the ball back for their offenses. If our defense steps up this year, so much the better. And with four quality RBs, our runners should be well rested whenever they take the ball."
This is where stacking 8 in the box in a read-n-react defense blows that up; with exception to play action pass. But even then, a delayed blitz will disrupt our passing game. There has to be a good balance of rush and pass for the offense to be successful. This is a BIG reason why I'm skeptical of our offense's capabilities.
Tonight will be a great measure of how we will do offensively in those terms; and what our running game will be like against a well-balanced defense; that can stuff the run and force a team to rely on their passing game. Then they force mistakes in the passing game. I think losing Pacman Jones is going to hurt their secondary though. I am hopefull that we can do something in the "air", but am not expecting anything great.
One of the things we saw in the Whiner game, was a deep play action pass on the first play of the game. I don't think we'll see that from Kiffin again during the preseason, but I think he'll bring that out repeatedly through the season. If we can start the game in that fashion, it puts the other team on notice that if they leave any holes in their defensive backfield, such as the SS position, we might easily score.
They'll have to back off for a bit and play us honest. As soon as they start creeping back up, do it again.
We have the talent to make it work among our skill players. And if our OL were as good as our skill players, we wouldn't need to employ that strategy in the first place.
It's more than a little ironic that the Spurting Derricks became the Flaming Thumbtacks. This team seems to like to surround themselves with Village People-type imagery. Why don't they just change their theme song to "Macho Man" or "YMCA" and be done with it?
I suggest Denver uses that Boy George song for their theme music. You know, that really, really gay one "Do you really want to hurt me" yada yada "Make me cry" or some crap?
Psycho
I know it's only preseason, but to march into Tennessee and post an impressive score against a Jeff Fisher defense is a pretty impressive feat. It's clear that the Russell-Miller duo are going to provide plenty of highlights in the upcoming season. It might be the beer, but did our defense really start the game with 2 consecutive blitzes??
r2g- try 3 straight blitzing plays... as in, 3 and out for the Titans.
I like what I'm seeing. Russell to Miller looks dangerous, and our pass blocking is giving Russell time... with Russell looking good on rollouts.
Higgin's play was disasterous, but I don't want to slam him too much... he's all we got right now. He needs to step away on anything inside the 10... he's too high risk (3 fumbled punts last year).
First half lead is like a win as far as I'm concerned. Now let's see what depth we have and who's ready for prime time.
BTW, Collins looked as lost as ever.
half time takes:
jamarcus taking good care of the ball
Titans daring Raiders to throw, and we did
Too many O line penalties
Liked the opening series blitz package and then played straight up until last series
Got no pressure with base 4 man rush
They couldn't block Burgess one on one in the blitz package
Did Gibril Wilson play?
Routt played well in coverage
Other d-backs, couldn't tell because Young was terrible
Sands played well
Z Miller is the SHIT
half time takes:
jamarcus taking good care of the ball
Titans daring Raiders to throw, and we did
Too many O line penalties
Liked the opening series blitz package and then played straight up until last series
Got no pressure with base 4 man rush
They couldn't block Burgess one on one in the blitz package
Did Gibril Wilson play?
Routt played well in coverage
Other d-backs, couldn't tell because Young was terrible
Sands played well
Z Miller is the SHIT
There is no doubt whatsoever who Russell's favorite "go to" receiver is ... Zach Miller. The guy is "money" and has hands of glue ... reminds me of Todd Christensen with the way he snatches the ball with his hands and makes adjustments with his routes.
1st Half observations (really 1st quarter and half):
* Good overall job by OLine in pass protection. Both Harris & Green did admirable jobs. Going up against Kearse, Haynesworth, and Vander Bosch was a great test that the OLine passed.
* Russell looked most comfortable with roll outs and a moving pocket. He will create havoc on some of the broken plays since he is so difficult to bring down, catch, and with his strong arm finding WRs downfield.
* The interior DLine played well. I like the Kelly/Warren/Sands rotation.
* Ricky Brown looks like he will be earning the starting SLB position.
* Huff looked much more natural at FS using his athleticm and speed.
* Uh oh JLHiggins at again with the blown punt return committing the trifecta of errors (1) fielding a ball inside the 5 (2) fumbling (3) giving up a TD
* I like OC Knapp on the sideline instead of in the booth ... makes sense for the direct, hands on communication and coaching of Russell.
* Let's hope that Ryan sprinkles in more blitz in 08 ... as I've said repeatedly, Thomas Howard off the edge could be a real pass rushing weapon.
BTW, who is the coach on the Raider sideline who looks like Gruden's younger brother? They showed him at the beginning of the game.
Sorry for letting Homey O near the keyboard
Welcome back Calico! Have to agree the O line did well
Johnnie Lee is scary back there fielding punts...can we re-sign Tim Brown?
Liked the snatch catch from D-Mac in traffic
Jury still out on Javon W
Hey, overall, we look good
The chokeland fizzlers looked real "good" against the bumbling 49ers, tonight they show that they are STILL a basement dweller with the lumox 'J-rust" thowin' the ball inefficiently, "andthrew falter" got his nose bloodied and your 'FUNTASTIC" "running game" was soooooo impressive! "huggy cub" couldn't run his way out of a srong paer bag, and the new kids look to stink it up as well, Just be proud fanatics, the fizzlers will not win a regular season game!!!!! Defund the "notion"
Let's play " Who's the Coach" Yes it's anybody's guess who the real coach is in choketown, we all know it aint "Mr. Kiffin", my money is always on big al (MR.) davis, as usual! He will take this "franchise" to the grave, as a LOSER! Keep believing fizzler fanatics, "panty smella" needs to come back and take the team under his tuteledge and bring back the "glory" daze to choketown! Only "panty smella" has the brains to do this, all you have to do is read his commentary after any game to see that he is in tune with the fizzler mentality! Just groan babies, and defend the "notion"
Nice defence fizzlers, you lose AGAIN!!!!!!!!
The team looks pretty good except we need to find a punt and kick returner. Higgins continuously carries the ball like a loaf of bread thus will give up one or two fumbles a game.. uhhh, it's the only play in football that they know you are the ball carrier... thus you are a TARGET. Your job is to secure the football first.. not score TD's.
Reminds me of Pbuc but with less talent. Go away from my teevee screen now.
Huff making that play at the endzone gives me hope... that would have been complete with Stuey... he wouldn't have even been in the play.
The team looks promising!
Turnovers cost us a game we clearly should have won. And both were by players who will play key roles for us this year... scary.
My primary concern with Higgins is that every time he lines up for a PR, I'm on the fringe of a nervous breakdown. I don't know if I can handle that kind of pressure.
And the last Titans drive shows us why Eugene couldn't supplant Schweigert. Soft coverage. Also, Sanchez had good coverage twice on Erly and couldn't break up either pass...
I have to say, though, I'm pleased with what I saw. The Raiders were more than competitive; they controlled the ball for most of the second half.
Walter looked All-Madden with blood coming out of his nose and all over his jersey. He gets my nod as Russell's backup.
Only Echmandu on our roster gets tackled on that 72-yard run. Our other four RBs would have scored.
Anyone else notice Kiffin go over to Ryan on that last drive and give him some instruction?
Finally, I think we found replacements at K and P, with a 56-yard FG (plus the go-ahead FG), and a 71-yard punt, respectively. The NFL should request urine samples from these guys.
was very impressed by wr, chaz schilens.
he made some nice grabs, and showed no fear going over the middle.
he looks like a keeper, and we should give him a look as punt/kick returner. because higgins just makes too many mistakes.
One afterthought... I will always prefer pressure over prevent. Pass rushing 3 guys on the last series did nothing. Early in the series when the Raiders brought 4 they got a sack. Imagine what a blitz could do.
Jerry Mac offers a good post game rap. http://tinyurl.com/38nzqe
His key point on the last Raiders series was Rankin going out of bounds and stopping the clock.
Nice to see lb blitzing throughout the game. Maybe Rob Ryan reads this blog? Honestly this D looks real solid. Gonna be real tough to move the ball on them. There are some holes on this team but with excellent running game and rock solid D this in itself should be good for 8 wins. Hopefully we can claw out a few more.
RaiderMike
Ok, first the kicking game. Don’t get too excited about the replacements we had. One of the field goals doinked off the left upright and happened to go in. The punts didn’t have the hang time of your standard Lechler punt. However, we did have some decent speed getting down on coverage. Carr had 2 returns for 3 yards total.
Prediction – Higgins will not field a punt inside the 10 the rest of the year. If he does he will be replaced and possibly cut. Rankin is looking good 4.8 for the game. Maybe try him on some kick returns?
Good pressure on Vince Young all night, only 4 for 13 with a sack (by a blitzing linebacker).
Russell made good decisions. The TD pass to Miller wasn’t overly impressive. Right handed QB rolling to his left throws a bullet through a small window. It’s only not impressive to me ‘cause living in the SEC I saw him do that all the freaking time. Especially to my Tide.
Miller needs to give “hands” lessons to the other receivers. I don’t care how fast the ball gets there, if he hits you in the hands you should catch it. That’s why they pay you the big bucks.
It appears Bush and McFadden are both for real, and we already know what Huggy Bear Jr. can do.
The switch to FS for Huff is going to pay dividends. The run defense in the first half was way above average when compared to last year. The Flaming Thumbtacks did get 140 but most of that was second half against the subs. Which brings up our depth problems.
Overall B+, but still need depth. I hope the starters will play into the second half against the Red Chickens to develop some more continuity.
Anyway, that’s how I saw it. By the way, that mist over the end zone was me having another out of body experience. Man, that’s a good batch of beer.
H
Something interesting - A friend of my cousin, in my fantasy football league, is close friends with Thomas Howard and J. Lee Higgins since he went to UTEP with both of them.
He speaks to them on the phone regularly. More Higgins these days. He says Howard has gone "a little Holywood" lately and doesn't keep in touch as much.
Keep your head on staight there, Thomas, we need you.
Psycho
Since you brought it up.... Here is my 1st ever Fantasy league team, with 9 opponents. Not bad for a rookie. I'm trying to trade QB Palmer for McFadden and I plan to get Zach Miller after BYE week (faggot Charger fan picked him earlier than I expected). Tried to stay true to the R8Rs though, it's going to be fun:
QB - T.Romo
QB - C.Palmer
QB - JaMarcus***
QB - V.Young
RB - L.Tomlinson
RB - Fred Taylor
RB - R.Mendenhall
RB - W.Dunn
WR - T.J. Whose-Yo-Mama (Championshiiip)
WR - H.Ward
WR - R. Curry
WR - J.Walker
TE - V.Davis
TE - G.Olsen
DEF - Oakland (Yeah)
D-Player - K.Morrison (Yeah)
K - Does it matter?
Psycho (BiTcH KiLLeRs)
higgins - bye bye.
i hope we find room for rankin. maybe trade the procelain doll fargas?
sebastian who?
Porcelain doll?
I saw Fargas run over LB #55 Friday while putting his head down full speed, in a pre-season game.
He gained 4 additional yards after #55 was knocked on his ass, out of a perfectly squared possition low into Fargas' chest.
Never doubt #25. Whether he's #1 or #2 he brings 100% every day for us. I can't name very many tougher guys in the NFL.
Fargas is the last guy I'd call a porcelain doll.
Psycho
Crash test dummy! For Kiffin to single out Fargas and label him "game-ready" speaks volumes IMO.
One note on coaching...
Higgins fumbled the ball and gave up a TD. On the very next offensive play Higgins got the ball on an end around.
That was something started here by Davis, and carried on through Shell I, but the tradition seemed to have died when the Raiders moved back north. Under Gruden, if you committed a game day mistake you shouldn't have been surprised to find the Turk waiting for you at your locker - which you might even wind up visiting before the end of the game.
When you immediately go right back to a player who made a mistake, it gets the play out of the player's mind so he can't dwell on it, and serves to restore his confidence. It's kind of like taking care of your investments.
To me, this is more evidence that Davis and Kiffin talk, and that Kiffin is willing to learn.
JaMarcus looked amazing. That Miller TD was a great play under pressure & against perfect coverage.
Psycho
Scorpio killing Fargas?? You been hangin with Faider-boy? You put 22 Fargas' on the field and you goin to the Super Bowl.
RaiderMike
Scorpio,
Since everyone else is ragging on you about Fargas, you know I've got to take a shot also.
I've come to the conclusion that the primary reason for Fargas' injuries before the arrival of Tom Cable was he had to do most of his own blocking also.
His injury at the end of last year really wasn't that bad. Had it been earlier in the season he would not have gone on the DL. He might have even been able to play with a light brace. But, when you are 4-10 why take the chance with your leading rusher.
Kiffin is publicly calling out Javon Walker. Said it's time for him to earn his paycheck.
I didn't see the game, but caught some scores in progress and it looked like the Suckneers were blowing the Patsies away. Heard a rumor that Brady didn't even make the trip.
I'd like to see what Rankin can do with some kick and punt returns this week.
I feel a bit for O'Neal. He's played his butt off since he got here. He deserves another chance in that situation if it comes up in the next two games.
Just ramblings from a feeble mind.
H
Apparently, Kiffin’s not happy about the lack of roster movement... which comes as no surprise.
Why doesn’t Davis allow players to be rotated in and out of camp for the sake of competition and to rest injured vets. Makes perfect sense.
Perhaps Davis' inflated ego is still getting the best of him? Which begs the question, how long can injured John “David” Bowie last on the active roster? Even J-Mac suggests “Bowie would need a telescope to see the top of the depth chart when healthy.” Ouch!
When it comes to spending money on key acquisitions, Davis might be king. But shouldn’t he let his coaches and “so-called” executives handle simple roster moves for second- and third-tier players during training camp and pre-season?
This has got to frustrate anyone who wants the team to be the best it can be.
Perhaps our lack of depth was perfectly demonstrated by the 4th quarter meltdown Friday nite... although I attribute that, at least in part, to poor scheme. (How many times will coaches need to see a prevent D fail before they realize it doesn't work?)
I'm trying to understand the "lack of roster movement". In the past two seasons, we have been very near the top of the league in roster movement.
The currentl training camp situation is league wide. The NFL Europe roster exemption no longer exist. That's 10 missing bodies.
When a player is hurt, you have to release someone in order to replace the injured player. Roster movement isn't just bringing in a warm body.
Also, we have an injured punter and kicker. We had to have them replaced for last Friday's game. We could not release either.
Some of the complaint could be lamenting about the situation as opposed to what someone will or will not do.
H
NYR
Completely agree with your post, though the over-inflated ego(a dig at John Bowie?) comment might ruffle some feathers. Before you get their rebuttals, I'll take a stab at what you'll hear.
A) Replacing bodies for bodies makes no sense until we make the final cut to 53 when the best options will be available. (True, but wouldn't it be better to have backups who have a familiarity with our system than the more talented counterparts who won't be available til 8/30 and will need to play catchup?)
B) All teams deal with injuries and depleted rosters and it's up to the coach to win with what he's given. (Yes, but at certain positions such as OT, OG, LB, our backups aren't even close to being viable options during the regular season.)
C) Kiffin is targeting the NFL's roster policies and not directly pointing fingers at Al. (The Javon Walker callout pretty much expresses Kiff's view on one of our preseason acquisitions and maybe Lofton's coaching.)
IMHO Kiffin is trying to establish a new culture and implement a sense of urgency to replace the the sense of complacency of seasons past. Some may question his decision to air his griefs through the media, but perhaps this is the only way he can clearly express his views rather than meet behind closed doors and let the media speculate at will. At the beginning of last season, Kiff called out the roster and rightly expressed his concern over the significant lack of talent in training camp. This season, Kiff knows that if we're healthy we have the talent to have a great season, but we're an injury away from another subpar year.
Adding to what H has said (you knew I'd show up at your back, H) there is a league wide rule that you cannot release an injured player unless you work out an injury settlement with him. That means the injured player has to agree to the settlement.
Lane needs to learn that this isn't college anymore. You can't bring 150 bodies into camp. This is also something I think JMac should know, but he doesn't attempt to address it. Yes, other teams are making moves. But EVERY other team isn't making moves. The ones that can are. The Raiders are not currently one that can. At least, apparently, in the eyes of Al Davis.
But I'd also point out that Ricky Brown is receiving great reviews. Brown is one of those players Kiffin would have gladly released to bring in more competition. Kiffin said that when Brown showed up, Kiffin didn't even know what he was doing in the league. Well, apparently, he's now in the league to be our starting SAM LB, in spite of Kiffin competing 3 other LBs against him.
Adding to what H has said (you knew I'd show up at your back, H) there is a league wide rule that you cannot release an injured player unless you work out an injury settlement with him. That means the injured player has to agree to the settlement.
Lane needs to learn that this isn't college anymore. You can't bring 150 bodies into camp. This is also something I think JMac should know, but he doesn't attempt to address it. Yes, other teams are making moves. But EVERY other team isn't making moves. The ones that can are. The Raiders are not currently one that can. At least, apparently, in the eyes of Al Davis.
But I'd also point out that Ricky Brown is receiving great reviews. Brown is one of those players Kiffin would have gladly released to bring in more competition. Kiffin said that when Brown showed up, Kiffin didn't even know what he was doing in the league. Well, apparently, he's now in the league to be our starting SAM LB, in spite of Kiffin competing 3 other LBs against him.
Blanda,
Back up to your back up. (thanks)
Tackle Mark Wilson was released after injury settlement was reached. Wesley was released, but only to make room on the roster for Archuleta.
There have been roster moves, and there will be more. Here's the primary quandry, as I see it.
Our pro bowl punter is injured, we are not going to release him. The guy who led the league in touchbacks is injured, we are not going to release him. But we need them replaced for the games and practice. We have a plethora of running backs at the moment, all of whom are having good camps. This is one of those situations where we have too much of a good thing.
And, the guy who is supposed to be our number 1 receiver is turning into a mental case. Can't release him yet.
It's the proverbial rock and a hard place.
I'm sure they have a list of players to try out, but you can't put one on the roster until one is released.
Even with the upcoming cuts, the team is still in the same situation when it comes to injuries.
Not only that, to say Kiffin has no say over the roster is pure sophistry. Just look at the turnover in the last 18 months. It took Gruden two full seasons to get the roster close to where he wanted it.
This isn't as easy as running down to the parts store and buying a new part.
H
all,
i'm not doubting fargas' contributions to the team nor his heart and dedication to the game. i'm saying that this "porcelain doll" is taking up a roster spot because if not now then sometime during the season, he'll go down with a hangnail or something and spend the rest of the year on IR. why not trade him NOW while he has value and get something for him - either in the form of a draft pick or a warm body in another area of need? we have so much depth now at RB that we don't need to take up a roster spot for a guy we know'll get hurt! besides, fargas isn't all what you guys think of him. he got all his yards last year from garbage teams. plus, that move'll give us an extended look at rankin.
i've just gotta take a stab at inconsistent janikowski - we all know his history. i'd give this elling dude more than a serious look. if he can handle a few kicks with consistency and make pressure kicks i say nice knowin' ya jano.
the great and powerful oz can and should make these moves!
It's one thing to make some kicks in a pre-season game. A whole different thing to make them in a reg season game.
So unless Jani continues to be injured, what do we do, keep him on the roster to see if the new guy can make regular season kicks? Or dump Jani (whom would take three seconds to sign with a different team) and cross our fingers and hope he doesn't suck out loud? At least with Jani we know what we have (if healthy). A great kickoff kicker, a good to great short FG kicker, and an inconsistent long FG kicker.
And I doubt any other team would take Fargas's contract... so unless you are suggesting we simply dump him and take the cap hit.. I have no idea what you think Al should be doing here.
Kiffin said. “Unfortunately there are some guys right now on our roster that are borderline guys that as of today would make it just because we don’t have anybody else.”
Maybe Kiffin has seen enough of Mario Henderson....he whiffed badly the other night when Walter about got his nose broken. Or, maybe he’d like to make injury settlements to players like Bowie.
Kiffin’s frustration may stem from changes in roster exemptions, but I believe it’s deeper than that, and it has been a problem since he arrived. I doubt it was Kiffin that kept Jordan on the roster last year when Michael Bush was eligible to come off PUP. And Kiffin probably didn’t keep Cooper on the roster weeks after his injury.
To Scorpio’s point, Fargas might be expendable in a trade if Bush had played the second half last year. As it stands, Fargas is our only veteran back and we need him (insert picture of Rankin running out of bounds here - with the lead against the Titans Friday nite).
Raider Nate has been pushing for roster moves. Sounds to me like Kiffin would really like to accommodate him. Makes sense to me.
I think the point that H and I were trying to make is that it is not necessarily a Kiffin v Al problem. There is a big difference between wanting to bring more players into camp and being able to bring more players into camp. Davis may feel the need as well, but can't find current conditions that make it possible.
Kiffin is obviously trying to make the statement, "I can only do so much with what I have to work with." Well, I don't think anybody doubts that. Some are making the assumption that just because more players aren't coming in, and Kiffin wants them, it must be Al hanging on to his scholarships.
Nobody can consider Bowie a scholarship. Al has no reason to hang on to somebody so far down the depth chart, even if he did come from the Moss trade. Although one useless player on the roster is as good as another. And Kiffin has complained that Bowie is constantly injured.
Well, that's exactly why we can't cut him. Until Bowie is able to prove himself to the NFL in some fashion, he's going to hang on to that contract like his life depended on it. And his financial life probably does.
The other thing about players available right now is that they are available for a reason. Like, they're not very good. They're camp fodder. Granted you want to change out your injured camp fodder for non-injured camp fodder, but you have to wait until the injured camp fodder gets non-injured. Then you've lost your whole reason for swapping them out.
I think Al is waiting for the cut down period to make some moves, and saving his money until then. Yes, it would be nice to have people who went through camp to add to the roster, but the complexities are designed here by the NFL to keep teams from abusing the players and to add to competition between the poorer teams and the more wealthy ones.
Bowie never played last year - at least that I remember - and has been injured through most of camp.
Think about it. Bowie’s injury (and presence on the roster) is causing Nnamdi to have to play injured during pre-season. Do the Raiders actually care more about a 4th round pick, that’s proven nothing, than their franchise player?
They released Jordan. They can certainly find a way to release and replace Bowie.
i know it was just pre season, but i wish the raiders would have hung on and beaten tenn.
there's something to be said for "learning how to win". it's something the raiders really need to grasp quickly.
last year, the giants had a come back win against the skins and it turned them around. we know the rest of the story.
when gruden was coach, the raiders had a signature win against indy. behind big at the half, on the road, the raiders awakened, stormed back, and won.
so when i see players running out of bounds, stopping the clock when they shouldn't be. players fumbling at the goal line. prevent defense coverage on final drive, it's hard for me to just write it off as only a pre season game. to me it's much more than that.
the raiders have got to find a way to break free of their losing habits. the sooner the better.
as for kiffin, well, i like coach kiffin. i believe, given time, he will hoist the super bowl trophy over his head one day.
but i wish he would just shut up and coach the damn team right now.
the raiders have better talent than a year ago, and they should improve.
it makes no sense to dwell on john bowie, and grant irons types.
yes they bring nothing to the table, we all know this.
but teach the players who are there please. teach the players who are willing to learn. they need a lot of help with their attitude. it needs to be changed from loser mentality, to winner mentality.
we can all watch out for that signature game. because until it happens, folding in the 4th quarter will continue to haunt.
This is getting to be an interesting battle of wills. I don't blame Kiffin for complaining he doesn't have more players to help him win games... his coaching career may be depending on winning more games NOW. OTOH... Al has to look out for the future a bit too, so cutting players because they are injured might not make good business sense. I don't think anyone can pretend this is a great NFL football model... Kiffin airing his dirty laundry through the press when Al values loyalty like a mafia godfather.
I guess all we can do is hope it all works out.
The most interesting quote I have seen in years though is the Titan player saying he thought their team measured up better against the Raiders than the Rams because our team has improved so much lately.
I think we have something going here... lets hope Al and Kiffin can find a way to make things work for at least two seasons.
Checking in from Cambodia...
Internet is $1/hr....4000 Kh....33B....but slow...Can't watch the video highlights until back in Thailand 9-5-08....
250yds rushing and 150yds passing with a "TD" looks good to me....I like the stats...We gave up 130yds to a very good pair of "RB"s and 250yds passing....
This team is improving rapidly and I am very excited about the season...I know the "Donkey"s are already trying to figure out how to stop our "Rush" and prevent "JRus" from taking them apart....And than how to rush the ball against our "D"..."J" will get distroyed....
PantyRaider....GOOOOoooooo Raidersss!!!
It's time to dump the fizzlers while you can still trick some moron faida fanatics that the "team" is improving! Sell your season tix before the IDJEOTS figure out that big al (MR.) davis is determined to take the "teem" down the tubes further than any faida fizzler "teem" has ever bottomed out to! I have true respect for Mr. Kiffin after seeing him on the sidelines agonizing over the way "the genius" is running the "teem", Mr. Kiffin will be the ultimate winner in the long run, big al (MR.) davis will be dust buried in his beloved NY with his LOSER CHOKETOWN FIZZLERS. When will the fizzlers move again, Just lose baby, defund the "notion" 0-16.
The only way, under current rules, to replace injured players is to reach an injury settlement and release them or put them on IR and pay them for the whole season.
You can't put them on the PUP because that is for non football related injuries or, in Bush's case, injuries prior to being signed.
If I'm wrong, someone please correct me, but that is how my febble brain remembers it. That is why Jordan was not allowed to practice, even in the mandatory OTAs.
Henderson is a differnt story, he's not injured. But, who do you replace him with? Sims? (By the way, guess who was called for holding in the game against the Whiners.)
Plus, it sounds to me like Kiffin is even more impatient than Al to get the winning started. Good.
This team is still a work in progress. We all knew it would be 3 seasons to get it all done. This is season 2, why don't we see what progress is being made on the field before we hang Al in effigy again.
H
J-Mac says it all here:
http://tinyurl.com/38nzqe
Our roster problems run much deeper than league rules. As J-Mac says, this is a battle Kiffin should avoid.
Here's another angle on it.
http://www.realfootball365.com/index.php/articles/raiders/12391
H
Sorry, lets try this again
http://www.realfootball365
.com/index.php/articles/raiders/
12391
The contrasting views illustrate that it’s all about interpretation. How will Davis interpret Kiffin’s remarks, and his candidness to the media?
To me, it demonstrates the lack of communication internally with the Raiders. Why else would Kiffin feel the need to air his laundry. It’s one thing to call out a player (no big deal), but to call out roster activity points squarely toward the GM and Director of Personnel, being one and same, Al Davis.
It’s frustrating for me as a fan because it seems like the Raiders have been beating themselves (on and off the field) long enough.
It’s time for everyone to be on the same page and field the best team possible. Both these guys should swallow their egos and get it done.
listen, this is the time to make roster moves. teams are going to have to make some tough choices, and start cutting roster spots. essentially cutting these players will free up our cap space to sign more competition. i wish we were in a position to make a trade for a #1 wr like boldin or steve smith, but the fact is we would have to trade fargas, a draft pick, and possibly carter or curry. i'm not comfortable without a vet running back. which is why i wish we would have kept rhodes.
as for scholarship players, there are some (sam williams, grant irons, mario henderson is becoming one, so is javon walker) need to go. javon is the only one on that list that could possibly sign somewhere else. then you have players like bowie. bowie says "i'm injured" because he knows he's about to be cut, and nobody else in the league will sign him, so he's wanting a "settlement." this happens all the time. that doesn't make him "scholarship" that makes him a thug; and other than a lack of talent, is why he won't be signed elsewhere.
my 53-man depth chart as it stands:
qb-j-russ, walter, tui
rb-fargas, d-mac, bush, rankin
fb-griffith, o'neal
wr-walker, carter, curry, wadkins, higgins, chaz
lt-kwame, wand (will have to replace henderson)
lg-gallery, mcquistan, rodd
c-wade, grove
rg-carlisle, wakefield, rodd
rt-green, wand
(25)
lde-burgess, scott
dt-kelly, shaw
dt-warren, sands, joseph
rde-richardson, edwards
sam-brown, thomas, archuleta
mike-morrison, hartwell
weak-howard, alston, condo
cb-nnamdi, johnson, sanchez
cb-hall, routt, sanchez
fs-huff, eugene
ss-wilson, branch
(26)
k-janikowski
p-lechler
(2)
ls-condo
pr-higgins/branch/hall
kr-branch/higgins/d-mac
(already accounted for)
possible moves:
trade bait: william joseph, greyson gunheim, janikowski, and/or rankin.
look to sign: elling, pakulak (for trade bait), a backup left tackle, a wr/special team, and cb.
Kiffin and Davis...
Yes, Kiffin is speaking his mind. I've said many times that Al Davis WANTS his head coaches to speak their minds. The current problem (lack of personnel) is not a Davis/Kiffin problem, but a problem caused by the last two Raider coaches refusing to speak their mind. Kiffin walked into mess created by that.
And again, you cannot release an injured player without an agreement from that player (unless you can prove that his injury was not caused by playing football). Jordan was released because he wasn't injured. He wasn't injured because they kept him out of camp and OTAs.
I sense a growing "scandal" over this issue, which isn't an issue. We can only go through massive changes during one period every year. More quality players will become available when teams cut down their rosters, but even then, all you'll be looking for are role players, not future or current stars.
i'm not saying davis is competely at fault, but i'm also not saying he is completely exempt.
he spent big $$ on questionable players this offseason, instead of giving nnamdi what he deserved. let's beg the question, how is javon walker playing out for us so far? not too good. tommy kelly? he's out of shape, and used all of camp to try and get "game ready" which he should have been doing in the offseason. yes, he had surgery, but that is no reason he can't work out his upper body and stay in game shape, keeping his weight in check.
we invested in curry and carter as well, both coming off surgery, and both have yet to play a complete season. both seem to have caught the "johnnie lee higgins" bug because they have been really inconsistent.
davis has signed very questionable players this offseason, and has put $$ in the same type of quality the past few seasons. my question would then be "who was kiffin and davis trying to bring in? were they denied his requests? if so, why?"
the reason why these are my questions is because it depends on who he wanted. did he want to put that money in faneca, and faneca was just not interested? did he want to try and trade for another receiver to realize we didn't have anybody worth trading? did he want to go after marcus stroud, and like faneca, wasn't interested in talking with us?
there is a lot of "unknowns" about this, but at face value these reports seem to indicate animosity. without the rest of the picture can we truly say and believe that there is animosity? no, but it looks like they are still trying to figure each other out; and are still working on some issues to improve their "working relationship."
my problem that makes me question, and sway more toward believing the reports is how davis spent his money in the offseason on the players he went after. i mean, really, javon walker as your #1; when jabar gaffney, reche caldwell, bernard berrian, andre davis, and brandon stokely as free agents? they may not be #1 receivers either, but all are still young, and growing; and are right now, at the same talent level as javon.
i can understand the drew carter move for the same reasons; but i'd rather gone after any of the aforementioned as well for less $$; and used the big money for offensive lineman; and a defensive tackle. but it seems his eyes were on football cards again.
i'm tired of the label "the best talent on paper".
A very possible trade that we could make at the end of pre-season would be Louis Rankin, Pakulak, and Elling to Atlanta for Joe Horn.
better yet, joe horn was just released from the falcons, we can get him for $$ without losing anyone of worth, just cut a scrub.
This is a great quote:
>>>>
But what are you talking about, really? Bringing in guys who weren’t good enough for someone else’s team to replace guys who aren’t good enough for your team. There isn’t likely to be a difference-maker in the bunch.
>>>>
I agree with Jmac, what really is Kiffin trying to accomplish? Setting up Al as the villain in case he has another horrible season and gets fired, IMO. And Kiffin did have a horrible season last year, and much of the blame was his... I don't care what any IAAFer sez. He did a pretty shitty job of coaching and calling plays IMO.
The team looks much improved this year, but it IS still preseason, and he needs to do more to dazzle me than blame Al for all his problems.
Oh, and for an example of his shitty coaching in case I get called on it... if an NFL coach can't figure out a play to beat continual 8 and 9 in the box... he has no business being in the NFL.
You know damn well we will see it again this year... if he doesn't have Russell prepared to hot-route and audible out of 8 and 9 in the box... I for one won't miss him if he is fired.
It will be as moronic as SOB refusing to blitz, and never disguising his defense... these are football 101 issues.
I tend to come down on Gary's side of the ledger here. And JMac has it right when he says that Kiffin seems to be raising quite a fuss for nothing.
There is also no question that after all of the Roster moves and acquisitions last year, Davis expected better than 4-12. 4-12 has usually gotten Raider coaches fired in the past. But Kiffin had a couple of defenses for himself he was able to wave in front of Davis. He didn't have an established, fully health QB, and the end of season schedule was more brutal than most.
My guess is that Kiffin is going to have to show better than 8-8 this season to keep his job, and Davis has likely told him that. If Kiffin is fired before the end of the season, it will likely happen when the team hits that 8th loss.
So is Kiffin trying to make Davis out as the bad guy in this? Not likely. Kiffin is trying to protect his job by going better than 8-8. Kiffin is trying to protect his career by saying in advance that he doesn't have the players to get it done.
My concern is not that Davis will be offended. Davis is big boy and he can take care of himself. My concern is what Kiffin is telling his players. "You guys are losers, and I can't win with you," is not the way to pump your team up in the NFL. Kiffin better start being a little more circumspect in what he's saying, otherwise the players will abandon him and his system, and we'll be right back where we started.
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