Give Al Davis His Due
A lot of folks get upset with me for criticizing Al Davis as the man most responsible for the state of the Raiders over the past several years. These folks prefer to point fingers elsewhere.
Well, the problem with failing to apply most of the blame to Mr. Davis is that it also robs him of what he most deserves: the credit.
After all, if the Raiders get on a hot streak and make the playoffs this year—which I think is possible, especially given the state of the AFC West, where eight victories won the division last year—who should get the most credit? Our general manager? Oops, we don’t have one. Tom Cable? Sure, he’ll get some of the credit, but not nearly as much as the man who had the vision to tap him for the head coaching job.
See how this works?
People forget that I’ve been an ardent defender of Mr. Davis against those who would say that our success earlier this decade was all the work of Jon Gruden and Bruce Allen. It was all Gruden’s work? Are you kidding me? First off, Mr. Davis is the one who had the vision to tap Gruden. Also, don’t tell me Mr. Davis didn’t have a firm hand in our free agent signings and draft picks during that era. He always has, and he always will.
I’ve always said that you can’t blame Mr. Davis for the bad times without giving him the credit for the good times. But if I’m being intellectually honest, then the inverse is also true.
More than any other owner, Mr. Davis’s hand is on our results, both good and bad. The problem is that the results have been mostly bad lately, and the blame must be assessed accordingly. I suspect he would agree with me.
I had to laugh when I criticized Mr. Davis for our dreadful free agent activity in 2008 (during which we threw bags of gold at DeAngelo Hall and Javon Walker, among others), and folks actually wanted to blame Lane Kiffin for those signings. Say what? You mean you let that punk—whom you already distrusted, whom you knew didn’t have the organization’s best interests at heart—write blank checks in free agency? Geez, that would be even worse and more blameworthy than writing the checks yourself.
The same goes for the hot topic of just how much influence Mr. Davis wields over our defensive schemes. It’s the subject of much debate and speculation here at Raider Take, with some suggesting that he's not culpable in what transpired on our defense in recent years. Yet Jay Richardson the other day called it the “Al Davis defense,” apparently without a hint of sarcasm.
Well, what’s so wrong with that? I’d rather it be Mr. Davis’s defense that failed over the past several years than the alternative—which would be that he was just idly letting Rob Ryan run with scissors year after year. Better to try and fail than to be blind and absent.
The upside of all of this is that when our fortunes take a turn for the better, Mr. Davis will be the biggest beneficiary of the accolades to follow. Now wouldn’t that be cool? At his age, to show that he’s still got it, and to poke a sharp stick in the eye of his jealous haters? I can’t wait, and I’ll bet he can’t, either. I hope it happens as early as this December.
The bottom line: Let’s be intellectually honest now, so that when the time comes, we can legitimately give Mr. Davis what he will amply deserve: the credit.
Well, the problem with failing to apply most of the blame to Mr. Davis is that it also robs him of what he most deserves: the credit.
After all, if the Raiders get on a hot streak and make the playoffs this year—which I think is possible, especially given the state of the AFC West, where eight victories won the division last year—who should get the most credit? Our general manager? Oops, we don’t have one. Tom Cable? Sure, he’ll get some of the credit, but not nearly as much as the man who had the vision to tap him for the head coaching job.
See how this works?
People forget that I’ve been an ardent defender of Mr. Davis against those who would say that our success earlier this decade was all the work of Jon Gruden and Bruce Allen. It was all Gruden’s work? Are you kidding me? First off, Mr. Davis is the one who had the vision to tap Gruden. Also, don’t tell me Mr. Davis didn’t have a firm hand in our free agent signings and draft picks during that era. He always has, and he always will.
I’ve always said that you can’t blame Mr. Davis for the bad times without giving him the credit for the good times. But if I’m being intellectually honest, then the inverse is also true.
More than any other owner, Mr. Davis’s hand is on our results, both good and bad. The problem is that the results have been mostly bad lately, and the blame must be assessed accordingly. I suspect he would agree with me.
I had to laugh when I criticized Mr. Davis for our dreadful free agent activity in 2008 (during which we threw bags of gold at DeAngelo Hall and Javon Walker, among others), and folks actually wanted to blame Lane Kiffin for those signings. Say what? You mean you let that punk—whom you already distrusted, whom you knew didn’t have the organization’s best interests at heart—write blank checks in free agency? Geez, that would be even worse and more blameworthy than writing the checks yourself.
The same goes for the hot topic of just how much influence Mr. Davis wields over our defensive schemes. It’s the subject of much debate and speculation here at Raider Take, with some suggesting that he's not culpable in what transpired on our defense in recent years. Yet Jay Richardson the other day called it the “Al Davis defense,” apparently without a hint of sarcasm.
Well, what’s so wrong with that? I’d rather it be Mr. Davis’s defense that failed over the past several years than the alternative—which would be that he was just idly letting Rob Ryan run with scissors year after year. Better to try and fail than to be blind and absent.
The upside of all of this is that when our fortunes take a turn for the better, Mr. Davis will be the biggest beneficiary of the accolades to follow. Now wouldn’t that be cool? At his age, to show that he’s still got it, and to poke a sharp stick in the eye of his jealous haters? I can’t wait, and I’ll bet he can’t, either. I hope it happens as early as this December.
The bottom line: Let’s be intellectually honest now, so that when the time comes, we can legitimately give Mr. Davis what he will amply deserve: the credit.
204 Comments:
One of your top 5 posts over the past 3+ years ... balanced, objective, humorous, and right on point. Not that you ever lost it but I sense the RT swagger returning especially with the line of 'poking a stick in the eye of the haters'. Now that is something ALL Raider fans can put the differences aside and stand behind.
Change of topic ...
I just took a glance at the 'Unoffical Depth Chart' listed on Raiders.com. Yep, you guessed it, DHB listed as #1 WR on the depth chart.
Before anyone busts a blood vein, I fully realize that the depth chart is fluid and "unofficial". Although, not to be a Freudian wise ass, I do find this somewhat revealing.
It wasn't like these names just magically appeared or Joe the Data Entry Clerk just put these names up on his own. Someone had to tell Joe "Hey Joe, here's a list for our depth chart".
Read into this all you want or take with a reasonable grain of salt but I see some credence to an earlier thought on the previous RT take which is that there is undue pressure to accelerate DHB's developmental process and progress to justify the pick and 'stick a sharp stick in the eye" of all the media jackalls who were saying that the Raiders picked him too high.
"RT"...
We may disagree as to how much involvement Al Davis has had at particular times and to what extent he was involved but the jest of what you said is basically acceptable....Though not totally agreeable to me...
For instance during the period of time his wife was ailing or during the times he was deeply involved in his court cases he was much less involved with the team....Same goes early on when he departed to become AFL Commissioner...
As to what extent he was involved I toughed on that in may last post on the last thread to "CJ" so I will re-post it instead of doing a re-write....
"CJ"....
I think your last evaluation was very well developed and a very reasonable perspective on how Al Davis interacts with the team....But why stop there....
Just as much as he has had his Finger-Print on the "D" and consistently running Man-to-Man coverage and drafting as such....He has also had his finger-print on the "O"...
Predominately over the years it's been what he loves...The "Vertical Stretch Power-Running" style but at times he has allowed a coach to sway from that style....Even hiring a coach that definitely brings a totally different scheme to the table and allowing him to implement and run it....
Just the same way he did with the "D" as Madden was allowed to change to a 3-4 while still running Man-to-Man coverage....
Having a "Finger-Print" is in no way the same as "Running" the team....He's not the active "HC" but most certainly he is the "Supreme Coach"...
Most teams have had in the past a fundamental outlook on what their team should be and look like....As stated in an NFL Film regarding the Raiders the team was built in Davis's image as were several teams of the era...Teams for the most part got away from that as they started adjusting their personalities to whatever was producing results at the time thus the movement towards the "WCO"/3-4"D"/4-6"D"/Run-n-Shoot"O"....
The Raiders really change unless a coach can establish his point with Al and make him a believer...Not in the scheme but in the man who will run it...
PantyRaider...Al Davis Coach Of The Decades!!!/_
Vick to appear on "60 Minutes" on Sunday....
who should get the most credit? Our general manager? Oops, we don’t have one.
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No "RT"....We have a "MGP"....
Now that has been attacked in depth this off-season but continues to be hurled at the feet of Mr Davis as if he's breaking some "Holy Order of the Corp" for running his own damn organization while there are others who also operate at times without a separate "GM"/"President"/"Head of Football Operations" or what ever name they want to put on it in the freakin NFL....See the "Donko"s of late....
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I had to laugh when I criticized Mr. Davis for our dreadful free agent activity in 2008 (during which we threw bags of gold at DeAngelo Hall and Javon Walker, among others), and folks actually wanted to blame Lane Kiffin for those signings
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I believe if you look back the bulk of those "FA" signings were prior to the feud which opened the season but I may be wrong....I'm sure more info will come out about it....
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Yet Jay Richardson the other day called it the “Al Davis defense,” apparently without a hint of sarcasm.
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Apparently to you as that's your personal interpretation of the comment yet when I point out all the info that was NOT included by those "Mediot"s it gets NO Comment....I will re-post it here...
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Let’s be intellectually honest now
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If that is some sort of finger-pointing that some have not been it most certainly does NOT apply to me....
ThankYou Gary for letting me use your scissors....
PantyRaider....Points In Question!!!/_
PantyRaider:
1. That's right, no GM, just an MGP. Which just amplifies the blame, and the credit, accordingly.
2. Al Davis on Kiffin during the late 2007 season (prior to the 2008 free agent signings), when Bobby Petrino took the college job that Kiffin wanted: "Lane was upset as hell about it, and went after some other job. And Lane said to me this, 'Will you let me go and not ask for any penalties if I leave and go to a college job, or go to another job.' I said, 'Lane, if you say that you're not gonna' get paid, if you're gonna' resign, I'll certainly let you go right after the season.'"
3. Regarding Richardson's quote. Well, say it was sarcastic. That's what you want it to be, correct? And why is that? You don't like our defense being known as Al Davis's defense?
4. Regarding being "intellectually honest." That's what I'm advocating, and I made my points accordingly. To me, it all seems pretty logical. But maybe you and others disagree?
P.S. Thanks, Calico Jack. You put some of the wind in the sails of this take.
IMO, to be 'intellectually honest' requires the following ingredients:
2 tablespoons of objectivity;
The balls to call a spade a spade. The Raiders have had the worst 6 year run in the history of the NFL. It is perfectly fine to be proud of our rich history but to act like this is a mere bump in the road is nothing short of delusional.
2 dashes of perspective;
(a) the NFL is a cylical business with many peaks and valleys
(b) our team seems to be on the right track to digging itself out of the valley and up the mountain top
1 scoop of reality with a sprinkling of humor;
Yes, you can still be a proud, optimistic Raider fan and share your disappointment or voice your displeasure.
Yes, it is commendable to be an ardent, loyal, dedicated Raider fan. But to lose sight of the fact that following a team (any team) is nothing more than entertainment, a hobby, or an escape from reality is silly.
Realizing that it is a leisure activity, it is important to keepg your sense of humor intact and not take it too seriously.
It is fun being a Raider fan.
It is a joy to watch games on Sunday.
It is a way to bond with others.
I might be mistaken but I get the feeling that RT is implying that being intellectually honest will set you free which is the new brand of optimism ... being hopeful for a better tomorrow but grounded in reality. Nothing wrong with that in my book.
"Intellectually Honest"....
Pick-n-Chose what is acceptable as evidence and reject anything that doesn't support your personal agenda and be critical of those who point to it....
That is NOT "Intellectually Honest" it is "Denial"...
al davis:
blame = 50%
credit = 50%
hey, @ least it's 50/50!
:o)
3. Regarding Richardson's quote. Well, say it was sarcastic. That's what you want it to be, correct? And why is that? You don't like our defense being known as Al Davis's defense?
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Copy-Posted because you do such a great job of denile and twisting the facts....
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Just as much as he has had his Finger-Print on the "D" and consistently running Man-to-Man coverage and drafting as such....He has also had his finger-print on the "O"...
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Just the same way he did with the "D" as Madden was allowed to change to a 3-4 while still running Man-to-Man coverage....
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Having a "Finger-Print" is in no way the same as "Running" the team....He's not the active "HC" but most certainly he is the "Supreme Coach"...
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As stated in an NFL Film regarding the Raiders the team was built in Davis's image as were several teams of the era.
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The Raiders really change unless a coach can establish his point with Al and make him a believer...Not in the scheme but in the man who will run it...
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OK....One player has voiced that response to the "Mediot"s but there is legitimate reason to ask why...Such as....Why only one player saying it and it's the same damn "Mediot"s that have presented that crap that are reporting this as a legitimate statement so now do you just jump up and believe it because they wrote it....
I don't...I'm NOT a believer in these damn "Midget Minded Mediots" who as you remember are the same ones trying to write off "DHB" before he ever plays a freakin game or "Kid" Russel for being lazy-n-fat or that "QB" controversy shit that they have tried to pump not to mention 10,000 other lying references to the Raider Organization....
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It's reasonable for a reasoning mind to question anything and everything until there is a bonafide conclusion propagated upon legitimate -n- logical evidence as to what is the truth...I'm an Engineering -n- Sciences Major so that's how I approach everything....Now the last person I will believe about Evolution is a freaking biologist who has lived his whole life in support of it because he is totally and completely unreliable as he taints everything toward support for his personal beliefs...
Now what the hell is the difference with these damn "Mediot"s....
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So now by comparison....When someone has it in their little mind that the Raiders are "Dysfunctional" than of course every time some little statement is made it immediately becomes more fuel for their ever-consuming fires....
2 reactions to reading what was posted by those "Midget Minded Mediots"...
#1) Sarcasm...Good Jokester...Now that will get blown out of shape...
#2) Richardson's quote was not said in sarcasm. The reports mention neither sarcasm, nor do they play "gotcha," either. It's just reported as matter of fact.
Now let me get this straight...."AS A MATTER OF FACT"....
Fine...Now let's look for the "FACTS" that were left out of the report....
#1) What was the specific question or questions that were asked before this response was given....
#2) What was the general mood at the time...Serious-Casual-Laughing-Annoyed....
#3) What was Jay's frame of mind...Had he just returned tired from practice or just had his ass reamed by a coach....What was going down immediately prior to the release of that statement....
#4) Was this response from only the one question or was it grouped by the writer to divulge the total of what was said....
"Sure, this is Al's defense," he said, referring to owner Al Davis. "It's the same deal and we love it. And I love what coach brings to the table...I love his attitude, that he doesn't want us to change everything we're doing but he wants us to do things the right way. He's really detail-specific and detail-oriented and I think that's really important because last year there was a lot of gray area on our defense."
Now how much effort does it take to spend just a little time evaluating something before it becomes a totally blown out of shape bunch of "Bull Shit"....
#1) He started the statement off with the word "Sure"....So was he asked if this is Al's "D" and said "Sure it is"....
#2) After the word "Table" there are ..... so what does it represent...Possibly that this is connected from another answer to another question....
The quote was apparently made in earnest (I've seen it reported by three beat writers, none of whom noted that it was said with sarcasm; the larger quote sounds earnest).
So, if it was in earnest, as it looks, you have a Raiders player saying the defense is the Al Davis defense.
OK....Now wheres the video or audio tape that you saw sense you can testify as to it's authenticity to be exactly as you took it and as those lying "Mediot"s presented it....
There is one thing for sure and that has been established beyond any reasonable doubt in the Raider Nation....The gad-damn "Mediot"s lie....
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That's exactly what I have said....
PantyRaider....Now Just What The Hell Was Your Argument About!!!/_
2. Al Davis on Kiffin during the late 2007 season (prior to the 2008 free agent signings), when Bobby Petrino took the college job that Kiffin wanted: "Lane was upset as hell about it, and went after some other job. And Lane said to me this, 'Will you let me go and not ask for any penalties if I leave and go to a college job, or go to another job.' I said, 'Lane, if you say that you're not gonna' get paid, if you're gonna' resign, I'll certainly let you go right after the season.'"
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I believe if you look back the bulk of those "FA" signings were prior to the feud which opened the season but I may be wrong....I'm sure more info will come out about it....
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Thanks for the clarification as I said I was sure more info would come out about it....
"You don't like our defense being known as Al Davis's defense?"
The whole damn team is Al Davis'...The "D"/"O"/"ST"/Practice Facility/Coaches/Players/History/Logo/ect/ect/ect....
Now what the damn hell was your point...
If you are saying Al coaches the "D" and doesn't allow the "DC" to do his job than just say so and I will argue against that rediculas notion....
If you are saying Al doesn't allow the "DC" to change from the scheme that Al prefers than I will argue that also except that he has throughout his time with the team instructed his coaches that the Raiders are and have been a "Man-to-Man" coverage "D" and he has drafted and signed "FA"s accordingly...
He's the freakin owner and the teams very first successful "HC" so why is that something bad...If a coach refuses to work within the designated designs of the team than don't apply for the freakin job....
Now how the hell is anything you said "Intellectual Honesty"....I'm totally confused by this whole damn thread and line of reasoning....
PantyRaider....What's The Freakin Point!!!/_
As RT points out, Davis' share of the credit and/or blame is compounded by all the hats that he wears.
Owner
GM
Director of Scouting
Architect of the D (like it or not)
Davis consciously chooses not to delegate many of the responsibilities that are logically dispersed through every other organization (football or otherwise), yet in some folks eyes he is immune to any negatively that comes with his failings at any such responsibilities.
RT, great post bro. Like it or not, Al Davis shares the blame, and when credit is due, he gets it too.
Right now, I wrestle over the arguments of how much does Al Davis really run? He is rarely seen at the "Facilities". Yet he has his minions (Herrera, Otto, Villanueva) speak for him the majority of the time. Trask holds her own against these guys. But nonetheless, his minions his son, and Trask are the "Untouchables".
How much blame should they get?
Just an aside note, has anyone noticed Zack Crockett and Calvin Branch working as scouts?
As for Richardson's comment. He said it, but the media type wrote it. We are still going on the media type's intepretation as to it being sarcasm.
Yep, time to start poking sticks it the eyes of the Raider Haters and stop beating dead horses. We could open our own glue factory.
Calico,
No vein busting here. On the depth chart the top 2 receivers are the starters so they are equal.
Besides, this may be just who gets the nod Thursday night. See how he does in game conditions.
So, grains of salt all around.
H
I do agree blame and credit is a two way street, but each coach and player contributed in their own way.
The 2008 FA class, I would note, was dispatched after Cable took over. With the notable exception of Walker. Davis will listen to his coaches, if they are willing to talk. Even so, bad decisions can still be made.
H
Darrius Heyward-Bey had a practice that made his drop-filled opening sessions of a week ago seem like a distant memory.
After taking a day off with a sore toe, Heyward-Bey caught everything that came his way, including a difficult over-the-shoulder deep pass along the sideline from Charlie Frye that required a difficult in-flight adjustment.
“I thought maybe this was Darrius’ best day in camp,” Cable said. “Caught the ball well, caught everything, the underneath, the over the top, the big ball on the sideline, the one-handed catch. Those (help) his confidence. We want to keep that coming.”
PantyRaider, you seem curiously enraged by this take.
You believe that the Raiders are on the upswing and on the path toward greatness again, right? And if that's the case, all I am doing is setting the table for giving credit where credit will be due.
Nate, regarding Herrera, etc. They have their fingers in the pie for sure.
But if the Raiders go to the playoffs this year, they'll be getting the crumbs of the credit pie from me, as they are mere bit players. The largest slice by far will go to Mr. Davis.
Conversely...
I think Blanda will back me up on this. If they make the playoffs, the bulk of the credit should go to the partnership between Cable and Davis.
However, this could be tounge in cheek sarcasm, hard to tell in print.
H
H, that's certainly your prerogative. I guess you would give the same amount of credit to Gruden and Callahan as you would Cable?
As for me, I would give the bulk of the credit to Mr. Davis, as the hands-on owner and GM, and as the guy who had the vision to tap a guy who wasn't on anyone else's head coaching radar, and who hadn't even risen to the level of coordinator.
Take,
In your list the least amount of credit would go to Callahan. He inherited a perfect situation.
And, Cable has been a coordinator, UCLA 2004-2005. But, that was yesterday, and yesterday's gone. It only matters what happens from here out.
So, I guess you would be going with the good, bad or indifferent, it's all Al or mostly Al.
You see, as you state you give credit for both good and bad, and so do I. I just did not go along with those who said it would never get better until Al was gone. And, that anything prior to the last six seasons didn't count.
H
And, Gruden got the people he wanted. So did Madden, and so did Flores. I would assume some of the bad years the coach got what they wanted also.
H
My bad, I should have said "NFL coordinator." He was also a head coach at Idaho. But he's only been in the NFL since 2006, and was a total sleeper as NFL head coaching material. Prior to joining the Raiders, his NFL experience was limited to one year as line coach for the Falcons. He was more off the radar than Gruden was in terms of NFL head coaching material.
Hey, I don't think anybody has ever said, to my knowledge at least, that Al Davis isn't to blame for the last six years. Obviously, his position and status mean that he is most responsible for all the team's failures, particularly ones involving the draft and free agency, since those appear to be the fields he has the most day-to-day influence on the team.
Although I do think he has a strong level of influence on both sides of the ball, I don't think the idea that "Al runs the D" or "Al runs the O" for that matter is very accurate. In terms of ethos and basic ideas, yeah, the team is built in Al's image. That's the way it's been since the beginning.
However, I don't think Al is an autonomous ruler. I believe he has a network of people he trusts whose opinions he respects greatly, but there isn't a well-defined chain of command in the organization to effectively delegate responsibilities, and I'm sure that's created problems we haven't even considered. In fact, a clear chain of command is one of Sun Tzu's defining principles.
The Richardson quote is unfortunately too unclear for me to make a real judgement as to the meaning of his words. It could mean a lot of things. The biggest problem is that I don't know what question he was asked. Everybody who wants to believe Al Davis autonomously runs the D with marginal influence from whatever poor schmo happens to hold the job is going to look at it like the smoking gun that proves just that. That could be the case, but it could also just mean that philosophically the defense is Al's, but the coaches are the ones implementing that philosophy in a variety of ways to fit the skill-set of the team and the competition they'll face. I don't think any Raiders coach has ever done everything the way Al would, and I don't think now is going to change that.
My problem with a lot of the criticism of Al Davis isn't that it's wrong or unfair to blame him for the last six years, and you're right Take, I'm pretty sure he would agree that for the most part it's on him. My only problem is that the media and some Raiders fans (to clarify, not on this site excepting the occasional troll) use the last six years as concrete proof that Al Davis is a senile nut who can't win in the NFL anymore. I just don't think that's true. From what I've read and seen, his mental faculties appear intact, and I just don't think a person that well connected and successful in the NFL can suddenly forget how to assemble a winning product. So that's where I may at times appear reticent toward criticism of Al. However, I think at times you may find that I'm critical where you might think it was a good idea. Example: I thought the Moss trade was a terrible thing, and I still do.
All in all, Take, I liked your post a lot, and it can certainly stand as a rallying cry for Raiders fans.
Calico, I thought your post on the recipe for intellectual honesty could stand as required reading. Not just for Raiders fans or even sports fans in general, but for everybody with a hobby that they're at all passionate about. Excellent wordsmithing, amigo. :)
"You see, as you state you give credit for both good and bad, and so do I. I just did not go along with those who said it would never get better until Al was gone. And, that anything prior to the last six seasons didn't count."
Exactly. That's the point I was attempting to make, albeit stated far more laconically.
It's really a high stakes reputational game that Mr. Davis is playing, at this juncture in his life, by not enlisting the help of a proven GM or equivalent executive, and by putting the gameday in the hands of a head coach with limited NFL coaching experience.
I've had my doubts about such decisions, but I'm rooting for him to prove me wrong, as it would be wonderful to see him get over on the haters and restore our winning tradition, and also bask in the resulting glory of having done much of the legwork himself.
now THATS the RT i miss!!!! excellent take my man. setting the table for jumping to the full on positivers side with winning campaign. naw, not you, too even keeled and level headed!! loved it tho, reading your takes and Calico's keep me grounded. I'm still the everlovin optimist but gounded in reality.
frkyraider
Thanks! My fortunes rise and fall along with the Raiders, I guess.
Hey, and DHB is atop the "unofficial" depth chart, despite a less-than-stellar camp so far. Guess I'm not the only one with high expectations for him. ;)
"Thanks! My fortunes rise and fall along with the Raiders, I guess.
Hey, and DHB is atop the "unofficial" depth chart, despite a less-than-stellar camp so far. Guess I'm not the only one with high expectations for him. ;)"
Maybe, maybe. Also note that McFadden is second on the depth chart, so like Calico said, grain of salt.
Yeah, this Fargas stuff has gone on too long. He's a great #2. That's why we drafted McFadden, to be a #1 (although I'm sure someone will try to convince me otherwise). Barring injury, I'll be stunned if he's not #1 by the start of the season.
PantyRaider, you seem curiously enraged by this take.
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As I stated the basic idea is presentable but with exceptions as you spike-it with your little "Digs" and than when it's pointed out as disagreed with you follow it up with...
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Regarding Richardson's quote. Well, say it was sarcastic. That's what you want it to be, correct? And why is that? You don't like our defense being known as Al Davis's defense?
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So Yes...I'm ready to attack....My "Game Face" is already in place and I damn sure don't fit the category of "LightHearted Fan" who doesn't take everything seriously...Never have and as was previously reported by me "I don't separate the emotions from the game just like when I played it or any other sport"....
So here is what I question the most in your take and would like a clearer understanding of just what the hell this "Intellectual Honesty" is...
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Is "Intellectual Honesty" like admitting when you are wrong and owning it....Eating "Crow" if need be....Well as I remember few here have ventured into those waters but "BR"/Gary/Myself are amongst the "Short-List" who have so do we get the "Intellectual Honesty" tag...As I remember none of those "Glass Less Than Half Full" posters have ever admitted to such a thing while I have been on a thread....
Quite the opposite...When they have run out of ammunition to support some foolish argument they start Side-Steppin or Ignoring the topic...Now is that what is meant by "Intellectually Honest" because if it is I want no part of it....
Now...How do you come to the realization that this is an "Intellectually Honest" stance when there are some 50 seasons of history and 1000's of players and 100's of coaches and yet the statement that Al Davis runs the "D" continues to be un-supported by the masses...In fact...There are several statements from those in the know who have testified to the contrary..."SOB" most recently but why would we accept his words as counting for anything....He was only here for 5 freakin seasons as the "DC"....But when a single young player in his 3rd season utters the words....
"Sure, It's Al's "D"....
Than suddenly all that was before is lost and your personal beliefs are suddenly supported by that single little utterance in who knows what frame of mind or circumstances....Jay happens to be lame and losing his starting job to a 2nd year "DE" or did that just slip your mind....
Talk about running around with scissors...It wasn't one of us who went out and "Clipped" that tender little morsel of freshly slaughtered vocabulary and held it up so proudly for all to see and read...Was it one of the "Glass More Than Half Full" who were running with scissors looking for any little tid-bit to to sanctify our age-old beliefs in this organization....I think not....And yet we are the ones who continually get bombarded with those cute little pet names..."Enablers"....
Now we have "The New Optimism" as though that's something that's in need of being re-defined....I haven't signed off on it and doubt that will ever happen....I'm still proudly of the "Glass More Than half Full" and that feels very comfortable to me so why the hell change....But I could be nearly reaching to the point of "My Cup Runneth Over" but I will hold myself back until I actually see it unfold on the field of play with my own eyes....That's when I start to believe in something....When I have that "Visual" assurance or personal in-depth testimony from a very reputable source such as NFL Films with our coaches making perfectly clear just what exactly really happened....Oh!...And dare I say....I actually believe the statements released by my Raiders Front Office or our "HC"/Ownership in public interviews....
I damn sure don't put any faith in what ever it is that those "Midget Minded Mediots" are vomiting up....
PantyRaider...."Intellectually Honest -n- Old-School Optimistic!!!!/_
..ProFootballTalk.com....this just handed to me......
"After Titans quarterback Alex Mortensen, the son of ESPN's Chris Mortensen, threw an interception during the second half of the Hall of Fame game and then promptly was replaced by a returning Patrick Ramsey, it wasn't a good sign."
"And so it's no surprise that, less than two days later, the Titans have cut Mortensen."
"It's possible that Mort Jr. was simply caught up in a numbers game, given that the Titans had only three healthy linebackers for Sunday night's game."
"Still, it's good that Mort's son had a chance to pursue his dream. And who knows? Plenty of guys who ended up having good NFL careers got cut at some point along the way."
"Meanwhile, maybe the Titans will instead hire him to be a coaching intern instead"
Ha..Ha..Ha.. Guess whose licking his chops right about now, "Professional Lair!!!!"
Al Davis, Baby.
The head scratcher along with Take's comment is how can Fargas be #1 on the unofficial depth chart? D-Mac is suppose to be the one I thought Cable commented on watching film from last year's games on D-Mac and decieded the versatility he gives them on the open field is very much needed. Hence, more touches.
This is one of those WTF choices.
Al Davis gets the credit and takes the blame....Well lets look at that in application and see how it works....
Al Davis Runs The "D"...Oh!...So while he's in his "SkyBox" he's calling the "D"...Ya know...I have seen several games during several season but I have never seen the "Mediots" be able to catch him with that Overhead-Projector out sending plays down to the field...In fact...He doesn't even wear a HeadSet so how do you explain that...
Oh!...Wait a moment....Now he has progressed into the New-Millennium and has his "PS3" hidden and disguised with a hidden monitor hard-wired to the coordinator's both so he can select plays from "Madden 08" and send them into the game....Ya Right!!!....
So now we get to the end of the season "08" and Al's health prevents him from attending the games for the 1st time in his history with the team....
Oh!..So now I gets it....We won at the end because Al wasn't there sending those stupid calls from his "PS3" across the monitor....
So by your format of giving credit and dishing out the blame Al's portion was the 1st 7/8th of the season and "SOB"s was the last 1/8th as far as credit goes...
How about a simpler "Intellectually Honest" perspective such as is employed by the masses....
If an employer promotes me to captain and I go out and screw-up he takes responsibility for the promotion while it's me who ends up on the "Red Carpet" with the Coast Guard answering for my errors...
Same went down while I was in the military...It was me at that Captains Mass NOT the officer who gave me the assignments and it was me who served the "Brig-Time" for the screw-ups....
Now low-n-behold the same damn thing has held true threw out my adult life as an employee of any of the large corps that have employed me...And yes...I got my just deserts and credit for what was done...
So as I posted before...
Al Davis gets the Credit/Blame for the hiring but once on the job that Coach/Player is responsible for doing the job he signed on to do and if he fails to carry it out as outlined by his employer than he should receive the "Blame" for his incompetence....NOT the one who hired him...
PantyRaider....Proper Distribution Of Credit/Blame!!!/_
Perhaps Fargas is designated at #1 on the unofficial depth chart as a sign of repect. In other words, it might be merely customary to leave the previous season's #1 player at this unofficial ranking until the preseason gets underway or is concluded ... you know, the old adage about a player not losing his job due to injuries.
Ultimately, McFadden deserves the lion's share of reps. and carries during the regular season since he is the most dynamic and versatile RB. If used frequently and in a creative manner, he clearly gives the Raiders the best chance to win.
As far as DHB listed as a "starting" WR, it could be, as H alluded to, that he is projected to get most of his reps. with the 1st unit during exhibition season.
The importance of the unofficial depth chart is neglible until the preseason games get underway.
However, it will take on added importace when we start establishing the official depth chart in the next few weeks in terms of practice reps. and cohesion.
The 1st unit personnel needs to become comfortable and familiar with their other 1st unit teammates in order to develop a chemistry and rapport. By the time the last preseason game rolls around, it is crucial for each player to know his role and expectations.
Is it possible that the coaching staff expects DHB to be a starter on opening day? Who knows. I'm just excited to see DHB on Thursday night. "How bout' dem Cowgirls!"
PR wrote "Al Davis gets the Credit/Blame for the hiring but once on the job that Coach/Player is responsible for doing the job he signed on to do and if he fails to carry it out as outlined by his employer than he should receive the "Blame" for his incompetence....NOT the one who hired him..."
OK, PR, please explain why Rob Ryan was allowed to continue to pick up a check for 5 years? Are we now giving scholarships to coaches?
Al Davis hired Rob Ryan as DC.
The DC was clearly incompetent.
Now what?
The hiring of coaches and selection of players is only part of the equation. The owner/GM has the responsibilty, authority, and power to ALSO hold coaches and players accountable for their performance.
I think you will be hard pressed to find anyone on this board (or Raider fans in general) who doesn't blame Rob Ryan for being a shitty coach. To some of us, the debate is at what point should the axe have fallen on Ryan's chubby neck?
this is NOT good!
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/raiders/detail?&entry_id=45317
this is russell's make or break year guys. if he doesn't bust out the skills now, he ain't gonna!
"CJ"....
True....Non of us have a decent alibi for why "SOB" lasted so long..There have been several attempts to explain it as a sequence of circumstances that kept him in place but the fact remains his postponed departure was a fault of Al Davis who does the hiring/firing....That's exactly squarely where I would put that blame as far as him remaining on the team...Not as to the horrible job he did because those are his personal failures and he knows it and testified to that effect....
My personal take was in regards to Al's love of loyalty and apparent need for it more so now at an advanced age....His other very close friends have all sense departed to other opportunities except Otto....
So here is this very loyal type who survives during a period of un-rest while he failed miserably to produce on the field of play....
In comes Cable and fulfills that need in Al's make-up and so we move on with the addition of Lionel Washington on the "D" coaching squad so Davis still has that need covered there...
This is also the basis for all the speculations I made during the off-season with regard to Al's proclamation that help was on the way...
Madden was the man I expected to come in and give the Old-Man what he needs....A very faithful and true friend who completely knows and understands this franchise and loves it...That may still at some point take place but not for now in Maddens own words so it's wait-n-see but I'm not going to jump down the Old-Man's throat for not going out a securing another candidate for the position....The others don't fill the entire bill with what they personally bring to the table...And Al may be Snake-Bit from folks like Lance so now even more leery about extending his trust to the un-known...
PantyRaider....Un-Explainable Events!!!/_
PR - You make some vaild points and just for the record, I don't think loyalty should ever get in the way of the business at hand which is winning football games. Everything, and I mean everything, is secondary to putting a winning product on the field. Isn't that what "Just Win Baby" is down to the core ... put winning as the priority above all else?
Secondary Note:
I don't use do this but I would appreciate some backup from my dear and respected Raider brethen.
Here's the deal. A Cowboy blogger asked me to participate in a friendly Q&A. We exchanged questions in anticipation of the upcoming game vs. the Cowboys.
Some yahoo Cowboy fan (Post #6 in the comments) left a turd on my front porch.
All I'm asking is for you to put in your 2 cents and set this guy straight. There are times where we have our differences as Raider fans. This is a time to let "Cowboy Nation" know that we've got each other's back.
SSPN Breaking News!
"This is russell's make or break year guys. if he doesn't bust out the skills now, he ain't gonna!"
This has been today's Russell Doom & Gloom report brought to you by SSPN(Scorpio Sports Programming Network), the leader in (bad) sports news about Russell. Tune in at 11 for "Russell and the Deep Ball: The Sky is Falling!"
SSPN: If its good news about Russell, you won't hear it here! :)
"DC" Marshals Preasures...
“I’m telling you we are going to pressure teams. I can see it in John’s eyes,” Howard said. “John’s like this. If he calls a pressure and we don’t hi iit, he may back off. But if we call it and we’re hitting it, he’s going
to keep letting us come.”
Really? Based on what?
“I really do believe so after watching John and what he did in Seattle,” Howard said. “If you watch the Seattle tape, they brought pressure a lot,” Howard said. “(Julian) Peterson, linebackers, safety, they brought pressure a lot. He’s used to calling it in games. It’s not just what you see out here in practice, it’s going to spill over in games. I believe that.”
"QB" to "WR"s...
Timing. He said the receivers are on time with their routes but Russell isn't always on time with his throw.
This was a good read and reinforces the thought that what is being instilled in this "O" is "Timing Routs" instead of just "Read-n-React" as in the past...The "QB" still has his "Check-Down" recievers if it's not there but the primary play is a "Timing Rout"....I personally find that very damn encouraging...Once mastered the "D" will have trouble getting the preasure there on time and it will make Pass-Protechtion an easier chore for the "OL" as they don't need to hold their blocks as long...
A side effect may be less dependancy upon calling audibles at the line if you have trust in the Timing-Routs and a good conection with the "WR"s....Instead there will be "Tags" on the plays so when something is seen a "WR"/"RB" reacts to it in the same way as the "QB" without calling an audible away from the original play...
"Complexesvly Simplified" "O"....
Depth Chart: Encouraging...
WR_Darrius Heyward-Bey, Johnnie Lee Higgins
WR _Chaz Schilens, Louis Murphy
I'm gald to see them listed as our starting group and if it plays out the way I think it will they will be a group of interchangable parts with fresh-legs but "DHB" will be there between the 20's....Walker may yet be added to this gorup but I don't hold a lot of hope there....I'll be good to see what they bring this week....
PantyRaider....Excitement Builds!!!/_
The Vick Watch...
Dungy thinks Vick could sign this week
"Michael bounced teams off me — 'Hey, these people called, what do you think?' I think something's gonna happen this week," Dungy said on ESPN's "Mike and Mike in the Morning."
The Washington Post reported that at least five NFL teams have quietly shown interest in signing Vick, citing several people familiar with the deliberations
Smith said it would be easier to squeeze Vick onto a roster than a player at another position, because on game day, he could be designated the emergency third quarterback, who does not count as part of the 45-man roster on game day.
PantyRaider...Get It Done Please!!!/_
realist - the sky WILL fall if he doesn't get his act together and fast! this guy was a number 1 pick for crying out loud. there are 60 million reasons (or so) we should expect more from this guy than showing up at parties in expensive pimp fur coats with cigars hangin' out of his mouth. how about learning how to read a freakin' defense or even just completing your passes - in practice! and have i compared him to the top QB picks the last 2 years who HAVE lit it up? NO DS.
i haven't said $hit about this guy since before his draft. NOW is the time to get our money's worth don't you think?
Coach Tom Cable plans to take a careful look at the Raiders’ run defense when Oakland plays Dallas in an NFL preseason game Thursday night at the Oakland-Alameda County Coliseum. Improving that area of the defense has been one of the focal points of training camp.
“We’ll learn a lot right away, learn a lot as to where we’re at in terms of understanding and trusting each other,” Cable said after this morning’s practice at Redwood Middle School.
PantyRaider...That Run "D" is the key..
Scorpio....
He gets reportedly one quarter of play in a couple days...Let's see what he has and pass preliminary judgement than...We know nothing at this point...
GameTime is where it should show up...Practice is just practice and being reported by eyes not our own and "Tainted" threw "Gloomy Colored" glasses...
PantyRaider...Will He Shine!!!/_
Got-It...
One month of NFL GamePass in "HD" and the "Vid" is of very good quality and can be down-loaded to RealPlayer so I can save it and write to disc as a DVD Movies...
I just use the "MovieMaker" programs that I have to convert to DVD format and save it to DVD Disc...Fianlly....I will have a collection of Raiders games that I can go back and re-view during the off-season next year....That's totally supper...Now if we can only win and make them more enjoyable to watch...
I plan to return to US AirSpace for a 2 months some time in November so wont need to purchase it after that...3 months works for me...
PantyRaider....$69.99/mo Well Spent!!!/_
“Regarding Richardson's quote. Well, say it was sarcastic. That's what you want it to be, correct? And why is that? You don't like our defense being known as Al Davis's defense?””
I look at it through the prism of how I would do it. And, the answer would be total sarcasm, even if I used the exact same words because I’m tired of the question.
Now, is it Al’s defense? The closest thing to a smoking gun is he likes man coverage. Big fat hairy deal. His second item is the quarterback must go down and he must go down hard. Now, I have never heard him specify how the quarterback was to go down. I’ve never heard him specify it has to be a 4-3 with no blitzing. I’ve only heard the media say it.
“But he's only been in the NFL since 2006, and was a total sleeper as NFL head coaching material.”
But he's only been in the NFL since 1967, and was a total sleeper as NFL head coaching material. (This could have been said about John Madden on 4 February 1969 and it probably was). Oops, sorry that was more than six years ago – I keep forgetting (sarcasm).
How long must a coach be in the NFL before he should be considered for head coach?
“Yeah, this Fargas stuff has gone on too long. He's a great #2. That's why we drafted McFadden, to be a #1”
We put way too much into a piece of paper at this time of year. It’s who lines up on the field. I expect Fargas to be #3 by the break or sooner, and he won’t whine about it.
I just looked at the “unofficial” depth chart and Chaz Schilens and DHB are listed #1 with Louis Murphy and JLH as #2. So those who may have been scratching their heads about DHB being #1, there are two #1’s. The true #1 at this point is Schilens (JMNLHSO).
Panty,
Al calls the plays, you just can’t tell it. He's wired beneath his jumpsuit. The only reason the defense played so well in Tampa was Al couldn’t make the trip.
Calico,
“Perhaps Fargas is designated at #1 on the unofficial depth chart as a sign of repect. In other words, it might be merely customary to leave the previous season's #1”
Good point, and I agree McFadden will get the lion’s share of touches. Bush will get much more also. This may be a situation where the depth chart at running back is meaningless. We’ve got one decent back and two pretty damn good ones. Let’s just see where that takes us.
Scorpio,
He has also had very good days too. I’m withholding judgment until I see/hear him in a game. Timing comes and goes. When it goes it gets in your head. It’s how you work it out that counts. It’s good to struggle sometimes, we will see what he is made of. I’m not sold on this being a make or break year for him. Good solid improvement. I realize more is expected from a #1 overall, but right now I just want wins and solid team play. That’s what I expect.
Rumor is we are talking to Derrick Brooks along with the Aint’s.
And the beat goes on.
H
H, regarding Cable's experience, you're seem to be take a positive and turning it into a negative. I simply pointed out Cable's lack of NFL experience as a REASON why Davis should get MORE of the credit when Cable succeeds. Comprende? That's what was so great about the Madden and Gruden hires by DAVIS.
At this juncture in his life, with Gruden being the only lasting coaching hire he's made in 14 years (not six years, so get off it, and spanning six out of the last seven hires before Cable), it's particularly ballsy, and he should reap the credit rewards if it works.
And why are you guys so bothered the "Al Davis defense" quote? H, you just said that Davis likes man defense. Good for him. You think he's just a wallflower like most NFL owners and doesn't exert his preferences on the DCs? Well, that would explain the Ryan debacle, but it would also just put him in the league with other NFL owners in terms of their influence on the team, its play and its fortunes. Al Davis, just another Bidwill, Kraft and York, eh?
Some of you seem so eager to deflect blame from Mr. Davis that you are denying him credit. You don't do the man justice.
"RT"...
It's more important to get a balanced view than to just wildly dish-out credit anywhere/anytime seen fit and I would warn that building a foundation now of it's all Al's fault for rewards is setting things up for a total "Blame-Game" if something teeters and goes wrong so maybe some of us are completely happy with the way it is now and has been for a long long time....
As "MGP" he is responsible for the hiring/firing and for outlining the structure of the organization and the principals it shall operate under and if that includes a mandate that the "D" shall incorporate "Man-to-Man" coverage than so be it...That's his ruling to make if in fact that's what has been done...
But if it is his mandate than why has it been so dificult to pin that on him...Why so dificult to find the "Missing Link" that ties that concept all together instead of 10K wandering "Midget Minded Mediots" all trying to make something up and jumping any little slip of the tongue which they no doubt set in motion in order to sanctify their/your personal view-points...
As I said before...If it's true the evidence will be there regardless of how much one tries to cover it over....But in this you have the total opposite case scenario....The evidence is lacking and you have to dig for something or make it up while ignoring the direct testimony from people who are really in the know...."SOB" for the past 5 season for crying out loud....
Now this is a perfect example of what I'm talking about....How someone can totally ignore 50 some seasons of Raider history and jump a quote as small as this from a 3rd yr player who is quite posibly on the bubble and was a starter for what....One freaking season....But his waging tongue is heard above all else...That's fundamentally a false and twisted approach re-identified as "Intellectually Honest"....
PantyRaider....Give It A Break If That's All You Got!!!/_
Okay, you got me, Richardson was joking, Sapp was lying, and when Marshall was asked if he'd ever played as much man as the Raiders traditionally do, he meant to say yes.
Al Davis doesn't have more influence on our defense than the average owner, such as a York, Bidwill or Jennifer Lopez.
In fact, rather than exert himself onto the team, he just let Rob Ryan run with scissors and run our defense into the ground out of a sense of pure loyalty.
It couldn't be that he was exerting his ideas and that Rob Ryan was screwing them up. No way.
This is the new Al Davis. Not the renegade. The wallflower.
"RT"....
That's really nice of you...But was there some "Sarcasm" in that statement or was it reported as a mater of fact with no signs of sarcasm and stated in earnest...
Just wondering....
Tell ya what....lets proceed this way as it usually works to the benefit of the truth...
You post all you've got as evidence that Al Davis runs the "D" and others can back you up while those who state otherwise get to post all the evidence against it and also all that is lacking as that is just as strong as testimony against something as a tid-bit that has been found in support...
Now the burden of prof is on you but that's just how it all lines itself up...So elements that are lacking speak against it rather than for it....Understood....
Now we need some ground rules first...So I will post a rule and than your turn to post a rule and we will all live by it...
Rule #1....NO Hear-Say as posted by those "Midget Minded Mediots" Pro-or-Con...Anything posted as evidence from that source shall be disqualified from the list except in a case where a former player or coach who has first hand info but has joined the "Mediot"s makes a statement from his personal knowledge...That is NOT classified as "Hear-Say"...Thus Sapp stands...
Do we have an accord???....
So for starters you have posted those few tiny bits from Jay in a context under question and I have posted "SOB"s entire testimony that he ran that "D" and was totally responsible....
Your Turn...
PantyRaider...I Just Love A Challenge...Don't You!!!/_
"RT"....
A small matter forgotten...
If you succeed in supporting your claims with evidence beyond what is stated against it I will do as I have in the past and concede it to you and buy the beer....All you care to drink....
Visa-Verse if you should fail...
Do we have an accord....
PantyRaider...Thirsty As Hell!!!/_
Take, I’m not the one that’s bothered by Richardson’s quote. Some are pointing at it and saying, see, see he said it, it is Al’s defense. I’m just responding to them. It doesn’t bother me at all. And, if it was used as sarcasm toward the media, I like it, because they bought it. But that won’t stop me from offering my opinion. Hence my Al Davis is wired comment. You know, showing absurdity by being absurd.
So, you are saying I can go back past six years for comparisons? Good to finally know. I’m sure Panty and Blanda will appreciate the good news. Those digs are not necessarily pointed at you, but there is a contingent here that gets fairly apoplectic if we point to something prior to Callahan’s second year as reason to think we will be pulling out of this soon.
“it's particularly ballsy, and he should reap the credit rewards if it works.”
Now, that interpretation I like. So, the old goat still has a pair. It was not what I concluded from your initial comment.
“Some of you seem so eager to deflect blame from Mr. Davis that you are denying him credit. You don't do the man justice.”
Nothing could be further from the truth. As Madden said, he and Davis worked as a team, and a pretty good one. However, me thinks the game may be afoot, and you may be putting out comments specifically designed to see how many hackles can be raised. If that be the case I congratulate you on a job well done. For it has stirred the pot and created debate and interest as we head into Thursday’s game.
And, Sapp was lying, especially about that “monster” he created.
H
scorpio- The sky did fall(for me at least) in 2006, 2-14. Yes for $60 million we should expect great things from Russell on the field. I thought we saw some of that when he lead the Raiders to a come from behind victory on the road against a "win and you're in" Tampa Bay team.
I always thought that the sports landscape changed when Cannon ran that "Image is Everything" ad campaign featuring Andre Agassi. Now if you don't fit people's image of "a winner" people will call into question your play, work ethic, etc., no matter your actions to the contrary.
Good thing they didn't have that when Joe Namath and Ken Stabler played. They liked to party, too. Namath was seen quite often wearing a fur coat. Yet he was judged by how he performed on the field. Stabler partied hard and would come to practice worse for wear. He won, but it looks like he's being affected by it now as he has yet to recieve the call to the Hall.
It seems to me that you have brought to our attention every negative article written about Russell this off season. Remember when he had the camp in Alabama to work on his timing with the receivers? You thought he was having a QB camp where he would be giving pointers on the art of QBing...and you thought negatively of it until other members of this board pointed it out to you. Disliking Russell as a Raider is your prergative. It could be that "showing up at parties in expensive pimp fur coats with cigars hangin' out of his mouth" is an image that greatly offends you.
"How about learning how to read a freakin' defense or even just completing your passes - in practice!" On that point we agree. That directly affects his game time performance. However, about his poor practices I might remind you that Jeff George had some of the all time best practices and then looked like crap during the actual game.
I guess what I am saying is that I do not think you are giving Russell a fair shake. I believe that is the case because that is what I'm getting from the majority of your posts about him. If that's not the case then my apologies. We'll agree to disagree on Russell and keep cheering the Raiders on to victory.
Sapp...
Small amount of speculation...
His history was as a "Buc" and his "SB" ring was won by kicking some Raider Butt and if and when he makes the "HoF" it will be based upon what he did as a "Buc" and not the result of anything he did as a Raider...So question his loyalties..
He found himself at the end and no longer needed at home but the Raiders were willing to give him his last hurrah but instead of going out as a Ball-o-Fire he was a "Flame-Out"...He was disrespected by being converted into a "DE" by "SOB" and he suffered for it...He had one last shot at his rightful position but that was too little too late...
Consequently there may have been some "Agitated Prejudice Animosity" lingering regarding his time as a Raider and that mixed with his already Big Mouth-n-Ego coupled with his new job as a "Mediot" and the probable coaxing of his new employer to say something detrimental about Al Davis provoked his deliberate out-burst on national TV...The ultimate "Ego-Trip" as he directs any negative away from himself and alienates himself from the source..
As for Jay's comment the jest of it was that he likes the coaches and the scheme but that little slip of the tongue could be taken any number of ways....Personally it was little of nothing when I 1st saw it but regarded it as something that will get blown completely out of shape and it has...The context is in question and until something else comes out we just don't know what he was thinking and I'm more than willing to leave it at that...
PantyRaider....Honestly...It Was Nothing!!!/_
Oh! Ya!...
And this season Coach cable has isolated his players and coaches away from those "Mediot"s....For what practical reason...Most likely because he knows their out for blood and doesn't want to give them anything to add to their already out-a-control fires..
He said the players and coaches have been instructed as to the Company-Line and admonished to be extremely careful about what they say....
Did Jay get his ass reamed for his little slip...
PantyRaider....So Little A Flame Consumes So Great A Woodland!!!/...
Take,
I reread your take and would like to comment on one of the paragraphs.
"More than any other owner, Mr. Davis’s hand is on our results, both good and bad. The problem is that the results have been mostly bad lately, and the blame must be assessed accordingly. I suspect he would agree with me."
He does, in the news conference introducing Cable as the "interim" coach a reporter asked him the question. He didn't hem and haw, the answer was "yes". No if's and's or but's.
My argument has always been he was ultimately responsible for the bad, the ugly and the good. Because he is the final authority. He was responsible for his decisions, but the people he hired/acquired were responsible for their actions and production.
His decision to put Cable in last season and retain him (arguments on how it was done aside) seems to have stabilized things.
Every thing we are seeing and hearing indicates forward movement.
Some idiot named Kevin Roberts at Bleacher Report said Cable sholud keep his bags packed with this quote "Davis is simply biding his time until he finds the right guy to coach his team past 2010". He's the first one I would like to see poked in the eye.
H
This just in:
Michael Craptree most likely won't sign before September.
Yes, Mel Kiper he's the guy we should have taken.
H
“(Davis) was responsible for his decisions, but the people he hired/acquired were responsible for their actions and production.”
Davis is also responsible for his indecisions. At a point of inaction as GM, the responsibility for “their actions and production” become Davis’. Namely, allowing SOB to field a sub-standard D year after year, and allowing his relationship with Kiffin to fester into a largely wasted season.
H - when did Russell sign? The problem isn't crabtree, it's the system and the excessive money draft picks demand.
the money givin to draft picks these days have put too great a pressure to come of age instantaniously. its absurd and self defeating for these young men to recieve soo much more than grizzled vets that have earned the oppertunity to make insane amounts of cash.
the money also raises the expectations of the fanbase dispite where the kid may be in the whole maturation process. next thing you know you got the "bust" label being bantied about before the kid has a chance to friggin grow and prove himself.
it's sad to see the ultimate level of this, my lifesblood sport, being drivin into this microwave/instant success or you have failed society. its a pity and not what true football is about. the money is ruining the sport. time for a rookie pay scale. something must be done for the love of FOOTBALL of all levels!!!
frkyraider
Amen, frkyraider!
H / realist - how many seasons did alex smith across the sf gay, i mean bay, get before he was given the bust label? this is his 4th year. they gave up on him in his 3rd year. and russell? how many years does he get?
true enough all we wanna do is win games. but the number 1 overall pick is supposed to be a superstar. the # 1 overall pick is supposed to be THE reason we win games and not a reason just to manage a game so we won't lose.
i believe we have all the pieces in place now. so if all we wanna do is win games, then lets see how long cable's chain will be before russell gets yanked for garcia.
after all, it's all about winning right?
Scorpio -
It is all about winning. Russell should be one of the key contributors to us winning more games than the previous year.
In his 2nd year at the helm, I want to see improved leadership, better decision making, 5-10 higher in accuracy, and quantifyable, tangible progress both statistically and in the win column.
I don't expect him to be a superstar this year but on the cusp of becoming an elite QB going into the 2010 season.
Russell needs to cut down on his number of fumbles. He needs to get the ball out on time instead of holding the ball too long. This will reduce the sack total. I expect him to take charge of the offensive unit, and at times, carry the team to victory in the passing game. I would not discount the importance of Russell being a good game manager. This is one of the more vital elements to a successful QB.
Scorpio....
You apparently dislike "Kid" Russel for whatever reasons and that's your personal choice....Mine is to love the guy and he's who I wanted in that draft...I was a "Kid" Russel Pimp...
But why can't you take a serious look at the guy for what he has done with "One" year as a starter...
#1) Put up equal #'s to Garcia on a team which was in total disarray and implosion while Garcia was leading a "PO" contender...
#2) Showed good improvement across the board towards the end of the season and pulled out 2 season ending "V"s including one against all odds by beating the "Bucs" who were "PO" bound at the time and being led by the "QB" whom you want to replace "Kid" Russel...
Now in his 2nd yr as a starter we should see marked improvement upon what is already there but I would hardly call him "Bust" when he has matched the Old-Vet with only one season under his belt...Well....Unless you want to label Garcia a "Bust" also....
"RB" Shuffle....
Cable said he plans to play Justin Fargas, Darren McFadden and Michael Bush, alternating them throughout the first half in a system he may want to use throughout the season.
“I want to start inplementing the lan that we want to use in terms of getting them all involved,” Cable said.
"V" Replay....
With my NFL "GamePass" sub I also get every game from last year so it's time to watch those 2 season ending performances as I look for improvement now...
PantyRaider...24hrs Till Smash-Mouth Time!!!/_
Vick Speaks but is anyone listening..."60 Minutes" Sunday...
"In the back of your mind, you know it's wrong," Vick said, "but with the money and the ego, sometimes you fool yourself. Your ego gets the best of you."
"Growing up, you think the only reason to raise pit bulls is for fighting. That's just our culture," he said. "But later, we find that we have a lot of flaws in our culture."
OK...Now stop crying over "Split Blood" and sign that guy....
PantyRaider....Doggy-on-a-Stick Tail-Gate Party!!!/_
For all those "Out-a-Touch" Fans who live outside the bay area but want to get the live audio feed of the Raiders Radio Broadcast....
Each year at game-time raiders.com posts a thread to their pilot radio station and you can hear it live on-line...
When in the States I switch off the TV volume and listen to the radio which is just a second or two off from the play but it beats the hell out of listening to some "Basher" speaking total "Crap" while I'm trying to enjoy the game...
It should be posted here at game-time tomorrow....
http://www.raiders.com/Gameday/
Default.aspx?id=67142
Enjoy...I know I will....
PantyRaider....Ready For Some RaiderBall!!!/_
Scorpio -
I went back and read your earlier posts about Russell. I get the sense that you have prejudged Russell.
Here's where I take issue with your statement of;
"we should expect more from this guy than showing up at parties in expensive pimp fur coats with cigars hangin' out of his mouth"
(1) The picture you are referring to was taken in March. This is before training camp, at night, on his own free time. Since when did we concern ourselves with what normal, social human beings do in their free time let alone a 23 year old man?
(2) You seem hung up on how Russell was dressed and the fact he had an unlit cigar in his mouth. I really don't give a Rat's Ass how someone is dressed or whether they enjoy a cigar (lit or unlit) ... why do you? Is it possible that you have preconceived ideas about a person based on how they dress? Does a fur coat offend you?
(3) It is funny that Raider fans like you take issue with Russell having a life outside of football. Did it ever cross your mind that he needs to blow off some steam, mingle with his friends, and have a good time just like any other man let alone a 23 year old? If you saw these pictures on a Saturday night before a regular season game, I would be the first to say it is bad judgment on Russell's part.
The fact of the matter is that it was in early March. Get over it. How about judging Russell by his performance on the field in 2009. If he doesn't show improvement then it should be a concern on all Raider fan's minds.
OK....Don't worry...It's here now for you so save it and have it...
http://www.ksfo560.com/article.asp?id=723446
Live Audio....
So you've got Russell on a short leash ready to yank him in favor of Garcia? Even after Russell lead his team back from a 10 point deficit on the road for a come-from-behind win against a team with a playoff berth on the line? Seems that the Bucs should have been the more highly motivated team, don't you think? What were the Raiders(4-11) playing for, finishing the season at 5-11? Bottomline is that Russell won and Garcia didn't.
Was Russell perfect? No. Did he overcome the INT he threw by coming right back and throwing a TD to JLH? Yes he did. If its all about winning as you say, why can't you give credit where credit is due? Russell is a work in progress. He has started all of one season. Practice is not the same as playing in a real game. Its like pilots with actual stick time versus simulator time, its not the same. What happened to Alex Smith should be a warning of what can happen if you don't have patience and don't put the right pieces in place for your 1st round draft pick QB to be successful.
Frkyraider hit the nail on the head. People want to microwave players into greatness. If you look at the history of the NFL, that is not the case. You saw Matt Ryan last year and you say why not Russell.
1) Atlanta had stability. Their coach and owner were on the same page, not re-enacting the Cold War.
2) Atlanta ran the same offense that Ryan ran in college. Ryan had the same coordinator all season long. Can we say the same for the Raiders? No.
3) Atlanta stuck with their offensive identity. They were #2 in rushing, but 14th in passing. Remember me saying something about "Image is Everything?" Atlanta with Ryan was 14th in passing while Baltimore with Flacco was 28th. Baltimore won with a strong defense and a powerful rushing attack. Yet the popular view is that Flacco and Ryan did all the heavy lifting.
I would say Russell finished strong in spite of all the turmoil the Raiders went through last season. He went from Kiffin having him hand it off and throw it only when necessary to Cable telling him to let it rip. Seems to me that Russell just can't win with you, and that's a shame.
Panty, I often find I can only listen to the streaming radio cast as we don't always get Raider games up here these days, so having that has been quite a boon for me.
Calico, you're absolutely right about Russell's fumbles. He only threw eight picks last year, which is great, but he fumbled so much it was almost moot. That was something they addressed big time in camp, so hopefully it pays off.
Incidentally, our lack of Raider games meant I got to see quite a bit of Joe Flacco last year, and God's honest truth, don't believe the hype. He throws a real pretty deep ball, but everything else he's just abysmal at. One of those playoff games he supposedly "won" he completed 9 for 23, for cryin' out loud. He was completely babysat every game I saw him play.
Ryan I'm more impressed with, but I will say his numbers are fairly inflated by Roddy White stretching out plays. He also kind of petered out toward the end, so I won't go apeshit calling the guy a star just yet.
Just some thoughts to bounce off you guys...
P.S. I'm writing on my Wii right now. |)
RaiderRealist...
Very good points about...
Atlanta with Ryan was 14th in passing while Baltimore with Flacco was 28th. Baltimore won with a strong defense and a powerful rushing attack. Yet the popular view is that Flacco and Ryan did all the heavy lifting.
Putt's it in it's proper perspective...
PantyRaider...No Comparison!!!/_
RaiderRealist -
"1) Atlanta had stability...." ??
I wouldn't say Atlanta had stability. Last year they had a new GM, a new head coach (coming off a season finished by an interim coach after their HC resigned late in the season) and a new QB, with the distraction of their previous starting QB in prison.
The 2008 Falcons has to be one of the most notable success stories in NFL history. They were in turmoil.
The Raiders, on the other hand, had the same GM, the same coaching, the same QB (Russell), a defense that had four years under the same direction. By recent Raiders standards, 2008 promised to be a pillar of stability... so we thought (many fans, including some here, denied the media-hyped deterioration of the Raiders' hierarchy).
"NYR"...
You were doing so well until you said this...
The Raiders, on the other hand, had the same GM, the same coaching, the same QB (Russell),
Ah!....What same coaching...4 games under the "Feud" and 12 games under the "Interim"....
Ah!...Same "QB"....I thought "Kid" Russel only started 1-2 games in "07"....
Ah!...Are you now saying the Raiders were more stable than the "Foul-Coons"...Now that's a new one on me considering your takes that we have been the worst for so long but now we were better so what's up with the promotion...
I know....Just another one of those frequent situations where facts can be tainted to fit whatever mood the poster is in at the time....
NO Consistency...
"We Sucked" and We sucked more than the others because we sucked the longest in NFL history...Right...But now we didn't suck as bad as those "Foul-Coons" did....WoW!....Remarkable improvement...And what was their record....Who else was actually below us this whole time while we're said to be the worst....
(many fans, including some here, denied the media-hyped deterioration of the Raiders' hierarchy).
This is true and I most certainly was one of them and one of the most vocal and one of the few who came in after the fact and laid my head on the chopping-block after eating all that "Crow"...But that didn't happen until the truth was evident and not just a bunch of hype from those "Midget Minded Mediots"....
Now...Can we list all the times recently they have been wrong but you have bought into it along with others on this site while I've never heard a peep out of even one that they were mistaken....
Now how's that for some good old fashioned "Intellectual Honesty"...Or I mean "The New Optimism"...
PantyRaider...Almost 60 Seasons With The Same Memory Intact!!!/_
nyraider-
"Atlanta had stability. Their coach and owner were on the same page, not re-enacting the Cold War."
Was Arthur Blank looking to whack Mike Smith before the season started? Did Atlanta have three different coaches calling the offense during the course of the season? Did Blank fire Mike Smith during the season and whip out the infamous overhead projector to show cause? I think you know the answer to that.
NYRaider,
Indecision is just a decision to not make a decision. How’s that for convoluted?
“H - when did Russell sign? The problem isn't crabtree, it's the system and the excessive money draft picks demand.”
I have always said the system is skewed toward the rookies. They get way too much money, but it is the system. In this case it is Craptree's arrogance that is causing the problem. He had surgery for an injury, refused to participate in drills at the combine, didn’t show for mini camp or OTA’s and wants more money than several taken before him in the draft who did. Plus Mel Kiper said if we wanted a receiver Craptree was the one. It was a dig at him.
And, yes Atlanta had stability last year. Compared to previous years and our situation last season, a resounding yes. I live here. The giddiness here over them is so thick and sweet it could cause a diabetic coma.
Well said FrkyRaider.
Scorpio,
Yes, the #1 overall is expected to be a Superstar. I expect it from Russell. But he is on his second position coach and third coordinator / play caller in less than a year after only one season as starter. I am not giving him a pass for this year, but I do not foresee the Pro Bowl. Good solid improvement, something Alex Smith has not shown. Plus, I am more concerned with overall team performance than I am an individual position. That comes first, everything else is secondary. And, what Calico said both times.
Just wait until he is crowned King of Mardi Gras as is predicted in his local home town paper. Wait ‘til those pictures get out.
H
Realist -
For all purposes, the Raiders could have, should have and actually appeared (in many eyes) to be stable coming into the 2008 season. Kiffin had given promise to a previously dead offense (worst in NFL history) and the defense was under the same coaching coming into its fifth season (that's incredible stability on that side of the ball, no?).
Now, to spin your words into their true meaning...
Al Davis was looking to whack Lane Kiffin before the season started; Oakland had three different coaches calling the offense during the course of the season; Davis fired Lane Kiffin during the season and he whipped out the infamous overhead projector to show cause? (Not exactly a high-point in Raider history.)
To Atlanta's credit, they cleaned house before the season started and got their ducks in a row, then proceeded to have a season for the record books.
As it played out, the Raiders are the Anti-Falcons.
I wrote about what did happen, not what should have, could have, or would have. The major point being that Russell survived the tumult and ended the season on a good note.
Don't forget, we had a season for the record books, too...
Oops, forgot I can't talk about the past six years.
"NYR"....
Let's play a little...
"He Said I Said" here....
"I Said"...
I believe if you look back the bulk of those "FA" signings were prior to the feud which opened the season but I may be wrong....I'm sure more info will come out about it....
"He Said"..."RT" that is...
2. Al Davis on Kiffin during the late 2007 season (prior to the 2008 free agent signings), when Bobby Petrino took the college job that Kiffin wanted: "Lane was upset as hell about it, and went after some other job. And Lane said to me this, 'Will you let me go and not ask for any penalties if I leave and go to a college job, or go to another job.' I said, 'Lane, if you say that you're not gonna' get paid, if you're gonna' resign, I'll certainly let you go right after the season.'"
"You Said"....
For all purposes, the Raiders could have, should have and actually appeared (in many eyes) to be stable coming into the 2008 season. Kiffin had given promise to a previously dead offense (worst in NFL history) and the defense was under the same coaching coming into its fifth season (that's incredible stability on that side of the ball, no?).
So now while it may be true that I appear incredibly stupid but non the less I am having extreme difficulty making sense out of this so could you and "RT" argue it out and get it corrected for me so I don't have to walk around shaking my head with my tongue hanging out in public like some kind of totally dysfunctional Raider Fan...
Almost Game-Time and were hung up on "Old-"News" now if that ain't dysfunctional what is...
PantyRaider....Game-Time Yet!!!/_
Was that said in earnest and reported as a matter of fact or do you detect come sarcasm in that post...
Easy enough, he said they "could have, should have and appeared to be" stable heading into the season.
In fact, many here spent the offseason trying to convince me and NY Raider that there was really nothing wrong in Raider land, and that rumors of rifts were just that, rumors.
And so there was Lane Kiffin, leading us into another season. Surely the relationships had been mended. Surely Kiffin had regained Davis's trust. Surely Mr. Davis wouldn't let a guy he disliked and mistrusted start a second season while sharpening guillotine blade, right? Surely something that crazy wasn't being allowed to go down...And yet it did.
We could have been stable if the right decisions had been made before September. We should have been stable after so many years of tumult. And we appeared to be stable because it was the only logical explanation for what turned out to be a most illogical situation.
H:
Will the King of Mardi Gras be partying it up in February decked out with crown jewels? Close your eyes Scorpio. :-D
"RT"....
If that be the case and it's also what "NYR" believed to be the case than why try to come in now with some totally inconsistent shit that the "Foul-Coons" were in worst shape than us....
Consistency is the basis for my objections...Or I mean the lack of it...Don't try to argue both sides of the fence at the same time depending on how ya want to taint the facts....
"RT"...Granted you were on leave for some time during the off-season....Or that is you picked up your Key-Board and walked off...Now I don't know how much you read as to what was being posted here but believe me it was quite rediculas as the "Fence" was moved to-n-fro at will....Must have been made of rubber....Or maybe it was just "Flubber"....
Talk about a "Moving Target"...
So you came back and re-opened several old-n-spoiled cans of "Worms" that we spent the entire off-season digesting and digesting again and again and to what avail....
Well I'll tell ya....It went "UnderGround"....That is to say when the evidence wasn't there to support it in the face of so much that was against it those in control of the fence just did that "Ignoring" thing....Lying in wait until the next time so it starts all over gain....
Yuk!....Worms Worms -n- more Worms...
You'll have to forgive me but I come from a sciences background where we argue a matter factually and in the end come to a better understanding of the facts and a working model to relate it to...But in this it's like talking to a politician/religious leader/evolutionist/philosopher/used care dealer/wife....Nothing is adhered to in a factual structural format...Just total flexibility to move to-n-fro....
Pantyraider....Inside Out Or Was It Outside In!!!/_
Where have I been inconsistent?
Take,
“Oops, forgot I can't talk about the past six years.”
Sarcasm, good, like it.
NYRaider,
“As it played out, the Raiders are the Anti-Falcons.”
I agree except I would say “were” not “are”. We are referring to last season. The Parakeets still have one huge mountain to climb. They have never had back to back winning seasons. They have never made the playoffs two years in a row.
The year before they went to the Super Bowl they had a losing record, the year after – same thing. Same with the year they played the Green Chickens in the NFC Championship game. The Parakeets were stable last season, but they have yet to achieve that elusive thing called consistency. Throughout their history they have been more bad than good.
On average they blow up the entire franchise and start over roughly every four years. Fingers are crossed in Hotlanta that history does not repeat itself.
Calico,
Purple robe with train and ermine trim, complete with septor and bejeweled crown. They take Mardi Gras serious in Mobile. They had it before New Orleans.
H
"RT"....
I said while you were gone...
I didn't say the "Rubber Fence" was yours..I said you returned and re-opened that old-n-spoiled "Can-o-Worms" which was done by your post bringing attention to some very little fractured Bite from Jay in who knows what context...
That's why I jumped on it...We already digested too many of those worms and now I'm sick of that diet...
Let's have some new fresh lively ones instead...Freshly sauteed in maggot gravy with filet of un-hatched roach sauce sprinkled with ant dropping and served in bee-hive honeycombs....
PantyRaider...Surely Tonight's Game Will Bring Us New Topics To Attack!!!/_
Go Blitz Go....
"RB" Shuffle...
"WR" By Committee...
7th Stretch...Pick That Is...
Fundamental Gap Control...
Panty,
Hold the roach sauce. Too much protein in that dish.
H
Now this gives up plenty of things to look for in tonight's match-up...Very damn good listing for a "Mediot"...
Woops....Forgot the url...
http://www.insidebayarea.com/raiders/ci_13052890
Dang....One more time...
http://www.insidebayarea.com/
raiders/ci_13052890
PantyRaider, just prior to me mentioning that quote, there had been a big discussion here on Al Davis's influence on the defense. I felt that it was relevant to the discussion, especially as we try to get a read on our new DC. It wasn't an old wound. It was a recent topic of much discussion here.
"RT"...
A topic of great denial and unsupported assumptions presented as factual evidence is all I've seen...
"Mediot" Vomit regurgitated over -n- over with no logical conclusion in site...
If you enjoy arguing just for the sake of arguing than just say so...
There should be a point to the discussion and with most topics there is but when it's some type of emotional battle over personal beliefs that gets totally lost...
What a wasteful exercise...
PantyRaider...What's New On The Horizon!!!/_
Richardson said it, and I felt it was newsworthy to the very recent discussion here.
Just yesterday on the radio I heard DeAngelo Hall say the coaches would come in and say that Mr. Davis didn't like this or that approach he saw on the practice tape, and they would adjust accordingly.
Now, you can call Hall a liar like Sapp. You can say that even though he didn't play with Sapp on the Raiders, they got together in the offseason to concoct the same exact lie. Maybe they did, I don't know.
But how are you going to blame the "Mediot" for Hall saying that? It was on live radio. The Mediot didn't say it. Hall did.
Same with Richardson. He said it, our beat writers reported it. They are reporting all kinds of quotes from training camp. Have you read Jerry Mac's blog and Twitter lately? It's loaded with quotes about everything under the Napa sun.
But it's his fault for reporting this quote, not Richardson's for saying it?
And I ask again: what if the speculation is true, what if what Sapp and Hall says is true?
Why would it disturb you so much if Mr. Davis had an active hand in our defense?
Bama7
H, you defending bad raider front office moves by shining a light on poorer aspects of teams like the falcons is like my kids telling me not to freak out about a school score of 58 because so and so in the class once made a 49. If we as raider fans are resorting to worst scenarios of other lost franchises then perhaps we indeed may be about to turn it all around for we have hit rock bottom by resorting to those type rebuttals.
RT, nice post. I'm not sure what you did wrong this time to raise the ire of others that think all is hunky dory with our front office. I think we're ALL just frustrated with the losing.
But, damn where there's a ton of smoke there is definitly a fire.
I would only say this about Hall, based on his histroy. In Atlanta, he was a serial liar, a bad locker room guy, and every time he got burned it was always someone else's fault.
Whether he is lying in this case, I don't know. But,based on his history I wouldn't trust what he said.
Remember last season how he said how great it was to work for Al and he was going to recruit a lot of FA's to come to Alameda.
Further, if a coach is coming in saying those things, that's not real bright (plus it's the first I've ever heard of it). It doesn't instill confidence and makes the coach look like a buffon if he can't see those things himself.
H
H
"RT"...
I do believe he has a hand in the "D" and also in the "O" and "ST" but not to the extent that some try to depict...
If he has a company mandate to the effect that the coaches shall run Man coverage than so be it but to turn that into Al wears all the hats and coaches the "D" is as ridiculous as ridiculous gets...
If he has a mandate that the utilization of the blitz shall be in such a way as to not put the game in jeopardy than so be it....But it's up to the "DC" to come up with a logical way of deployment so as to blitz safely but still bring the needed pressure...But to have that turned into Al doesn't allow the "DC' to do his job and won't let him blitz or that Al doesn't believe in the blitz when the history shows it was used extensively than that is also totally ridiculous...
I posted here the comparisons from the "84-n-85" seasons...Did you realise we had more sacks from non-"DL"men than da Bears during that period and they were known as the most blitz happy team of record at that time...
When ridiculous assumptions are made while dismissing/ignoring all the evidence against it than that's when I take exception with the comments or when as you say it becomes a moving target...
As I said it's Al's team and he has the right...
"RT"...Ask yourself about the source for almost all the trivial evidence that is brought up in support of that belief...A disgruntled player like a Hall/Porter/Moss or circumstantial evidence that wouldn't stand up against any scrutiny...
I fail to see the point or the value in it except to play the "BlameGame" against Mr Davis...Period...
PantyRaider...What's The Point!!!/_
Bama,
I didn’t defend a thing. I disagreed with one damn word, then gave my reasons. My point, which you totally missed, is don’t go looking at Atlanta as a model of some sort of consistency and stability. They never have been and aren’t until proven.
I wasn’t resorting to any worse case scenario. I was actually agreeing, to a point, with NYRaider, with whom I have had many disagreements
I was referring to last season, and last season only and nowhere in that post is any defense of anything the Raider front office did or did not do!
H
"RT"..
Same with Richardson. He said it, our beat writers reported it.
They pick and chose what and when to post a comment and they provoke comments so they can jump it as "See what Jay said"..."I told you so"...
Now really...Your not going to try and convince me that that never happens now are you...
How do you know when a politician is lying....
His lips are moving...
Now you can definitely apply that to the "Mediot"s when the write their political crap...
That's the big difference between me and you at this point...I'm suspicious of anything coming threw the "Mediot"s while you are supportive of them...Same goes for a Republican/Religious Leader/Used Car Dealer....They all have a proven tract record as "Liar"s and they will never gain my trust at any point in my future...
Not an "Enabler"...
PantyRaider...If They Said It It's Probably Not True!!!/_
I neither support nor am suspicious of the "media" as a whole. There are good media and bad media.
Jerry Mac the Oakland Tribune beat writer is not Chris Mortensen the ESPN hatchet man.
I think it's dangerous to paint with a broad brush like that.
I take them as they come. Some are awful, some do a great job, and many are in between.
Jerry Mac is having a live chat today. I think you should chime in and ask him what he thinks.
Live chat starts in 15 minutes:
http://www.ibabuzz.com/oaklandraiders/
"RT"...
We each do according to our own experiences in life...Life has taught me some very painful lessons...
"Good Cop Bad Cop"...
Now that's a reality...Some will just piss ya off right out the gate while others are very subtle and sneaky...Play like your friend and say something nice and work into your confidence but here and there trough out their little tid-bit and see what sticks...
I have read "JM"s post a lot lately and see at times how he disarms a comment so it doesn't become something it shouldn't...But he still has a job to do and an employer to please so I don't trust it...The Jay comment in particular was out of line in my perception....That was the only comment posted in his article but that's not the only comment he got that day...
It's like a Cop...He can pretend to be your friend but he's always scrutinising everything you say and looking for possibilities...It's his make-up...It's who he is...And it's the sewer he lives in daily...
PantyRaider...The Iron Tiger Is A Suspicious Creature!!!/_
"Us Against The World" rings true with me...
"I neither support nor am suspicious of the "media" as a whole. There are good media and bad media."
My experience is more bad than good, way more.
H
[Comment From PantyRaider]
You quoted a comment from "DE" Jay saying "Sure it's Al's "D"...What were the questions that were asked and what was the general mood st the time...Serious/laughter/annoyed etc....
12:20 jerrymac: Jay was being asked about how much the defense had changed from Ryan to Marshall, and that was his response. A light-hearted response, but he was not dropping a one-liner. Davis likes certain things in his defense, regardless of the coordinator. That's what he was referring to.
"Pride goeth before a fall."
Bama-
The Raiders and Falcons are polar opposites in terms of history, no doubt about that. I don't know about you, but I can't see how we can look down on anybody as bad as we have been of late.
I can't thumb my nose at the Falcons after the Falcons came to our house and put foot to a*! to the tune of 24-0.
I find it astonishing that in the four games we've played against the Houston Texans(entered the league in 2002) last season was the first time we've beaten them.
We can't afford to look down on the rest of the league. If we want to regain that swagger of old instead of looking like a stumbling drunk, we've got to start winning. With wins comes respect. Period.
I'm not even looking down on the Lions because even they beat us. In Oakland.
[Comment From PantyRaider Thailand]
What would be the possibility of signing Vick as a "Slash" type player and do you know if there's any interest...
1:05 jerrymac: Too late to bring him in and tinker with the offense at this point. The guys' been out of football for a couple of years now. Is he still as fast as ever? If he's not, then he's not the same player.
[Comment From bobt]
With Garcia hurting, any interest in Vick by the Raiders?
1:14 jerrymac: Garcia is a QB, Vick is a gimmick.
[Comment From John in Seattle]
Given the recent DHB upsurge does he remind you of any previous Raiders when he isnt dropping the ball
12:35 jerrymac: The best comparison i heard was the Bears-vintage Willie Gault, whose speed was a constant danger and always accounted for with coverages. Gault's hands were only so-so, but he made big plays and opened things up for others. That's DHB in the early stages.
[Comment From jeff]
have the problems on defense been an outdated scheme or is it poor execution and personel?
1:10 jerrymac: If they truly want to line up and be the better team physically, then they need better players _ particularly up front.
He's not impressed with my boy Vick so that's apparent but some interesting info here....
"RT"...
Thanks for the advise...I wasn't going to do it but than decided to stay up anyway...It's now 3:15am here and the game is at 9:00am so I will get short sleep if I sleep at all...
PantyRaider....Excitement Is Brewing!!!/_
PR - No inconsistency here, just irony.
My reference to Atlanta was in response to Realist’s assertion that they were stable. IMO, they were anything but stable, and their wholesale changes at key positions (front office, coaching, and QB) are evidence of that.
The irony here is that the Falcons were the picture of stability compared to the Raiders (team histories aside). They were actually making football decisions.
NY Raider, allow me to clarify:
Let me throw out "stability" for the word "functional." During Matt Ryan's rookie season the Falcons were "functional" in that:
The HC and owner were on the same page.
The same OC ran the same offense all season long.
The HC did a remarkable job picking up the pieces from the Bobby Petrino and Mike Vick fiascoes.
The opposite of "functional" is "dysfunctional." That is what happens when:
The head coach and owner feud all offseason and don't get on the same page.
Three different coaches take turns running the offense.
The HC winds up getting fired mid-season.
Does anyone believe we were "functional" last season?
I'm amazed that folks are stuck on the word "stability." As I stated in my previous post, Atlanta with whatever they had came into our house and kicked our ass 24-0. Was it so humiliating that people have blocked it from their memory? Yet we want to debate whether or not they had "stability."
Whatever you want to call it, last season Atlanta had it and we didn't. We sure could have used it, though.
Bama7
Raider realist- agree on post 12:55
Panty- your quote from jmac seems to add to the notion that Al has a heavy hand in the D scheme.
Right or wrong, it is clearer every day that our 80 year old is coaching. He owns the team and has done a ton of great things so he can do what he wants.. but let's all stop the debate on whether or not it is happening (him coaching, particularly the D).
PR:"Same goes for a Republican/Religious Leader/Used Car Dealer....They all have a proven tract record as "Liar"s and they will never gain my trust at any point in my future..."
I am a jail minister, have voted Republican, and even sold cars for about 6 months.
However, I've never been a mediot, unless you count the first semester of my high school freshman year and my current blog.
Thank you for your friggin' support.
Oh, and BTW, I double dog *dare* you to trust the current administration. You will only die disappointed.
---Jeff
Vick signs with Eagles...2 yr contract...
"AR"...
My reference was to the "Leaders" in those capacities not to the individual who is fooled and follows them...And we all have been fooled....But look at the tract records....
No doubt my attitude will annoy someone though but it was not directed at you as anything personal...Working with inmates is most likely not the same as being the Pope...And a "Used Car Dealer " is a "Joke" because they always get that Tag....Right....
Bama...
You though are the most rediculas poster I have ever had the displeasure of reading...Now that puts you below "I KNOW THE TRUTH" JONES....
You take this....
Davis likes certain things in his defense, regardless of the coordinator
And turn it into this...
your quote from jmac seems to add to the notion that Al has a heavy hand in the D scheme.
Right or wrong, it is clearer every day that our 80 year old is coaching.
Pure Stupidity nothing less and does NOT even merit a reply...
What "JM" prints is his personal opinions on his blog not the absolute factual truth but I don't disagree with him on this point...
PantyRaider....Gots Your Game-Faces I See!!!/_
RaiderRealist -
Sounds good. Functional it is.
They actually Bilitzing? NO WAY.
Go Raiders!!!!!!
Wow, five straight first downs given up. Yikes.
"AR"...
You can now add to that list of "Liar"s the freakin NFL...They sell their stupid "GamePass" that shows all the games live but NO pre-season games so my one month subscription is totally worthless...
Gots the radio and NFL Live GameCenter....
Wow!...This is exciting...Guess I will get to see the highlights...
PantyRaider....Details Are Appreciated!!!/_
The D giving up big runs, again. To paraphrase J-Mac earlier today, "if you want different results, you need different players."
Hey, the blitz actually works. What a concept.
Rushing 68yds/16 attempts = 4.25yd ave....That's our Rush "D" for ya...
106yds/9 attempts = 11.8yd ave...That's our Rush "O"....
For one half...
Chaz = #1...
PantyRaider...Stats Is All I Gots!!!/_
Crymany...NFL GameCenter is 4 mins behing the radio brodcast...They suck...the 4th is starting but their still showing the "TD" drive...
"O" Balance...30 passes -n- 15 runs
2 min warning but GameCenter is at 9:44...Refresh-refresh-refresh but no work...
Pre-Season for the NFL...
I understand all of that, PR.
I was trying to make the point that making political references here needs to stop. If you had said "political leaders" rather than Republicans, you wouldn't have gotten an argument.
If you had said "flashy televangelists" instead of religious leaders, I'd agree. Most religious leaders, however, are good folks who are in difficult spots.
Just be careful about how you say things, as it can degenerate into a flame war pretty quick. And this is one of the few places I can go that politics rarely comes up. I'd like to keep it that way. Think about how you'd feel if I brought up gratuitous DemocRat or Odumba references... See what I mean?
JMHSO
---Jeff
"O" Stats...
Passing 22/37 for 283yds 2 "TD"s...
Rushing 25/176yds 2 "TD"s 7yd ave...
Note...I left off the knee at the end of the game...That's a worthless stat but a nice play...
"D"...1 sack -n- 1 Int...
Rush 29/127yds 4.4yd ave...
Pass 16/26 157yds 1 "TD"...
Personal opinion not being able to see the plays...
The Passing "O" has improved tremendously over last season...We have quality at the back-up "QB"s and should consider letting Garcia go...He's lame and on the downside of his career...He might still be worth something as a trade so get what we can and let him go...
"RB" is a very deep position and I like Rankin over Fargas...Much more universal as a "RB"...Fargas would be worth a pick to some team so I would consider letting him go...
The "D" is still a work in progress but if the "O" works well they will be under less pressure from the rush....The blitz was a good thing to see so now maybe some posters will just let it go now...The "DC" was allowed to do what he does...Blitz...Just like in Seattle...
PantyRaider....Work In Progress!!!/_
"AR"....
No Problem but I don't share the same sensitivities politically...When I was discharged back in "71" I had already lost any and all "Impressionism" politically and also religiously after a few meetings with the Navy Chaplains...
But I agree this is a good place to be removed from the politics...My reference was to "Liar"s and not to anything political...The "Mediot"s are just in the same camp....I also mentioned the Cops...
I make general group "Broad Strokes" and will carry my suspicions when ever around them and keep the guard up but had no intention of being offencive to you or any other poster...
My Apologies...
PantyRaider...NOT Politically Correct!!!/_
Questions...I had no eyes...Only ears and stats...
#1) It was said on the radio that "DHB" was drawing the "Double" top-n-Bottom but was that on every play...
#2) We threw 2 to 1 over running while the run was working....Why....Was it just the plan to work on our weaknesses confident that the run is a strength....
#3) Run "D" gave up 127 yds but did they seem to be in their gaps and tackling well...
#4) The "D" blitzed on the only "TD" that was given up while the radio said we had no pressure on their "QB"...Is that what was seen....
#5) We made 2-3 goal-line stands and held them out of the end-zone even on 4th down...How did it look...
#6) The "QB"s did well regarding stats but how did their passes look and who looked the best...Pecking-Order #2-#3....
#7) Huff made the "Int" but how did his play look overall...
#8) The radio said their "D" was bringing the heat with the blitz but our "OL" was picking it up well...Is that how it appeared....
PantyRaider....Just Wondering Baby!!!/_
This win feels pretty damn good all things considered....The "CowGirls" are suppose to be a quality "PO" bound football team so this speaks very loud...It's not what most of us expected to see this early....Cable's teaching process must really work....
If I take anything away from the 1st preseason game, it's that the Raiders appear to have more depth this year... almost across the board. Hell, John "David" Bowie made 5 tackles.
"NYR"...
Cut-Downs will be painful...
80-53=27 for the "Turk"...
Panty,
What Arkansas said. This is a fooball site. There are enough political sites out there to argue on.
Arkansas,
One of my favorite uncles was a used car salesman. No one in the ministry though. I think that night in Honolulu in '73 got us banned.
Interesting from BSPN, the Cowgirls get creamed, but the article headline was "Romo throws TD to Whitten but Cowboys lose" Why not, "but Raiders win". Oh well, consider the source.
I didn't get to see the game. Stupid Atlanta stations wouldn't carry it. Only got to listen to our TD drive with the long run by McFadden. So I need help with how the team looked overall.
I am encouraged since last preseason we scored a total of 50 points in 4 games.
To me that's a sign the team is energized and are excited to play.
Who needs Craptree, we got "The Chaz". Take that Mel Kiper.
H
"H"...
The "Used Car Dealer" was a joke...Sarcasm....And specifically naming a "Republican" was a "Loser's Bashing"....Just love to kick a dog when it's down...The post was in regards to "Liar"s not politics but everything is sensitive now a days...
I posted before the game the thread at raiders.com to their radio broadcast so you can listen to the entire game and pre-game/post-game shows...
I will look it up and mail it in again....
http://www.ksfo560.com/article.asp?id=723446
Or go to raiders.com
GameDay
KSFO Radio
or
Multimedia
Radio Broadcast network
No reason to be completely left out in the cold...
You can also go to nfl.com and click on the game at the top of the intro page and it will take you to a page that maps out the field of play with play-by-play write-up
NFL LIVE I think it's called...
PantyRaider...Next Week Enjoy!!!/_
Roger that, PR. Thank you.
I thought all of our QBs looked good.
JR looked really good on all of the short stuff--except that he's still throwing hospital passes--way too high. His long ball is still suspect.
Gradkowski and Frye looked interchangeable to me--and both looked really comfortable in the pocket. They seemed to manage the game very well, and threw some good heat. However, they were also throwing some hospital passes that had me scratching my head.
Is there something about camp that has them all throwing too high? If the receiver has to stretch or jump over the middle, he's gonna' get killed every time. Yet that's what I kept seeing.
I guess they're figuring we have to weed out the WRs somehow...
Our running game was friggin' ferocious. McFadden was leaving everyone behind--looked to be the fastest man on the field. Bush was hitting so hard, the Cokeboys had body parts flyin'. Fargas looked good, but heck, how do you keep up with the other two?
Our D actually showed some blitz! Routt didn't look too good, though. It seemed they were pickin' on him all night.
That's all off the top of my head, I'll maybe post more as I remember it.
---Jeff
Panty,
I got the link (and thanks for it), but my streameing was so intermittent last night I gave up and watched the first half of the Suckaneer game again.
NYRaider,
Good observation on the "depth". That was my big complaint about the big FA spending. I would have rather had depth at the time. It appears this off season Cable is in agreement with that sentiment. Time will tell.
Arkansas,
How did you get the game?
Oh, wait a minute, you're next door to Texas and Jerry Jones owns half of Arkansas.
Never mind.
H
LOL@H
This is deep, dark Cokeboy and Grief country, my friend.
Any game the Cokeboys or Griefs play against the Raiders will be on local TV here.
---Jeff
Arkansas,
Happy to bring a smile anywhere I can.
I didn't read the article, but didn't need to. The heading said it all. "DeAngelo Hall rips Raiders, Davis". That's as predictible as the sun rising in the east-northeast this time of year.
Remember last fall he was ripping the Parakeets and praising Davis while saying how he was going to recruit players to the team.
Little did he know Tom Cable wasn't buying his shtick. And, we are supposed to believe what he says?
H
Panty,
Mine was a little stab at some self deprecating humor. Although I do wonder if that night in Honolulu made it into my FBI file.
H
Ha! John "David" Bowie is great. I guess that makes Nick Miller the Thin White Duke, and what the heck? Justin Fargas can be Ziggy Fargust.
Arkansas, you're right, Jamarcus really needs to work on the deep ball. The first one to DHB was on the money, but the defender kept him from making the play. The others were off the mark, though.
That long pass interference brought a smile to my face, I have to say. Perfect vertical offense result. The stats may not reflect it, but that's as good as completing it.
The defense still needs a lot of work, and at this point we need to hope Nnamdi doesn't get hurt, but it is positive that they only gave up 10 against a pretty prolific offense.
Speaking of, I was really impressed with the offense in general. Jamarcus looked like a good starting QB should, DHB commanded double coverage, and how about McFadden and Chaz? All in all, the playcalling seemed a lot more sophisticated than it has since Gruden. And blitzing!
I can't get too overexcited about one preseason game, and I know they went 4-1 during Art Shell, but did they ever kill somebody like this? I remember a lot of close, defensive games without a lot of offense. Did they ever put up almost 500 yards of offense?
"That long pass interference brought a smile to my face...."
This is what can happen when you throw deep. Makes you wonder why the Raiders have played so conservative toward the end of games when they're down by a score (or two).
russell was just ok last night.
alright guys, i won't say one GD thing about your party boy. so let's see just what happens by mid year.
like i said earlier, it looks like all the pieces are in place. the team good in some places (ie: schillens), and bad in others (ie: penalties). so we'll see!
Tom Flores breaking down the Dallas TD:
“Raiders going with just a 3-man rush. That’s the one thing I don’t understand; they knew (Romo) was going to pass the ball.”
Plunkett on the same play:
“You’d think they’d at least want to rush four people; put a little pressure on the quarterback.”
Did somebody see Rob Ryan in the house?
Fly"NYR"...
That's the way it went down on the radio too....But they said the "D" blitzed a "LB" and dropped a "DT" back in coverage...Thus only 3 came..Seemed strange so my thoughts/questions were this....
#1) Was it a blown assignment/miscommunication....
#2) Was it a trial run on an idea that can now be scraped...
#3) Was it what we can expect to see again...lord help us...
According to the Play-by-Play the goal-line stands that worked did very well but this one totally failed and that scheme needs to be scraped or adjusted....And that play had more of our starting personal in the game...It was early in the 2nd quarter...Scary...
I definitely came away with more positives than negatives but the "Neg" was some pretty important issues that definitely need to be addressed...
#1) Run "D"...As usual...
#2) Foolish penalties...As usual...
#3) Poor "CB" play...Un-Expected...
#4) Under-Thrown Deep Ball...Un-Expected...
The questions I have are...
#1) Tackling...Improved or not...
#2) Coverage....Tight or sloppy...
#3) Pressure...Close or same as usual..
#4) Pass-Blocking...Improved or not...
All-n-All a good way to start it off but now we expect a lot more than what we expected to see this week in the coming weeks...We want to see continual improvement but this really raise "RT"s bar...No Doubt...
If that continua improvement materialises I for one will start projecting "PO"s "09"....
One side note...The "CowGirls" were without both starting "CB"s so that has to be taken into account but we still did what we did...1/2"K" performance is good any way it comes...
PantyRaider...Bring On The "SadFran GayBay'ers"....Where's "CrabsFree" Hiding!!!/_
Fly"NYR"...Was a "Typo" but don't ask me how...
One more question on the "D"...
Did the "LB"s play closer to the line or was it more of the same...
"SOB"s In da House....Let's Hope Not...
PantyRaider....Just Correct It Baby!!!/_
This speaks very well about the camp designs and teaching abilities of Tom Cable...
“One thing I was surprised at, and I felt this way as I was watching it unfolding, and I feel that way after watching it on film, is just how fast we looked as a football team and in terms of decision-making,” Cable said. “I’m talking about everybody, not just the quarterback. We really got where we needed to be in a hurry on both sides of the ball and on special teams.”
“I just wanted to work to throw the ball,” Cable said. “Where we will be I think depends on how far we can take this passing game
WoW!!!...How long has it been sense those strong points in "RaiderVille"...
But it all wasn't good and here is why....
Raiders penalties vs. Cowboys
Cooper Carlisle, holding, 10 yards
Stanford Routt, defensive holding, 10 yards
Seth Wand, false start, 5 yards
Tyvon Branch, holding, 10 yards (special teams)
Samson Satele, tripping, 8 yards
William Joseph, encroachment, 5 yards
Paul McQuistan, holding, 10 yards
Michael Huff, pass interference, 5 yards
Brandon Myers, offsides, 5 yards
Jason Horton, pass interference, 5 yards
Jason Horton, pass interference, 5 yards
Brandon Myers, illegal shift, 5 yards
Darrell Strong, holding, 10 yards
Jason Horton, pass interference, 16 yards
Horton accounted for 26yds on 3 Interference calls which helped drives continue so his case for making the team is very poor....
Brandon Myers had 2 5yd calls but that was a different issue...Learning the positions so lining up Off-Side or a Shift is lots more excusable than Interference on a regular basis...
PantyRaider....Still Learning -n- Improving!!!/_
Scorpio -
Russell was in for only 2 series. The first series he moved the Raiders to the 2 yard line. Carlisle holds on the next play and the Raiders end up settling for a FG. If Carlisle doesn't hold, the Raiders get a TD 99 out of 100 times. Was that Russell's fault? It's a team game last time I checked. No matter how well an individual plays, he is dependent on his other 10 teammates to fulfill their assignment.
The 2nd series he converts a 3 and 8 to Schilens.
No 3 and outs. 8 for 9 on his passes plus an 18 yard scramble/run. 3 points for 2 series. Certainly nothing spectacular but it looks like you've got your mind made up. If I wasn't mistaken you want him to fail. By any reasonable standard, Russell did just fine last night.
You have Russell all figured out from a non consequential photo taken in early March. Knock yourself out Scorpio. If you are expecting a HOF QB in his 2nd year as QB, keep waiting. I hope you can enjoy the season in spite of your unfounded judgments about Russell.
Typo: 6 for 9 on passing. Oops.
Scorpio...
What "CJ" said....
There are enough real issues to be concerned about without making something up....
Run "D" just for starts....
PantyRaider...."QB"s NOT An Issue!!!/_
I know many of you probably won't agree with me but at this point in time, based on last night's game and Garcia's current physical woes, I would prefer keeping BOTH Gradowski and Frye and saying "Bye bye" to Garcia. Both Gradowski and Frye seem to be very capable backup QBs. If Garcia isn't able to go vs. SF, I would prefer to cut the cord.
Your thougts ...
guys,
I said i wouldn't say a thing about him for now and let's see!
isn't THAT giving him a chance?
SHEESH!
Scorpio..OK..You wont regret it...
"CJ"...
I posted the same thought but that we could get something in return for him in a trade....Maybe let him play a little in next weeks game so other teams know he can still do it and than look for a trade....He should bring at least a 4th I would think to a team in need....
Looking at the present state of the Raiders compared to the last few seasons and our glaring weaknesses what has changed....
"O"...
"QB"..Solid with one extra for trade..
"TE"..Solid with depth...
"RB"..Tops in the NFL...Depth...
"WR"..Possibly an area of strength -w- depth..
"OT"..Solid lacks depth
"G"...Solid possible strength...Depth..
"C"...Solid lacks depth injury need..
"D"...
"DE"..Solid lacks depth...
"DT"..Questionable run support...
"ILB".Questionable run support...
"OLB".Solid lacks depth...
"CB"..Solid posibly top unit lacks depth...
"S"...Questionable could be solid..lacks depth...
What was once our weaknesses at...
"QB"/"WR"/"RB"/"TE"/"OT"/"C"/"G"...
"DE"/"OLB"...
Have all been addressed satisfactorily during the past 3 seasons while...
"DT"/"ILB"/"S"
Remain questionable areas...
PantyRaider...More Work Yet To Be Done!!!/_
"Donko"s -vs- "SadFran"...
Score 16-17...
MuleHead "QB"...
K. Orton 9/16-Passing 89yds 0-TDs 3-Ints....
No points scored until the 3rd quarter against the scrubs by the scrubs...
"D" gave up 136yds 26 caries -w- runs of 15 -n- 25 yds...
Just think about what were going to do to them if they can't stop "SadFran"s rush-attack....
And somebody said they wanted McDaniels for "HC" here...Why wasn't he interviewed they cried...
"KC"-n-"SD" play today so keep an eye out for how they look....
PantyRaider...Spying The AFCW!!!/_
Calico - I agree that Garcia needs to make a stand. The backup role should not be his automatically.
I said before we appear to have more depth. I would add that QB is clearly the most obvious position of improvement. However, if Russell stays healthy and does his job, QB depth should be good for a couple more preseason wins and not much more. But I like what I see.
If y'all want to hear some "Donko"s crying go to this thread it's hilarious...This is what I left for them to feed on just for more laughs...
Broncos induce chant of worry
HE! HA!..HE!HA!..HEEE!HAAH!..Said Roton as he Choked up 3 INTs..
That's only half your worries If you let "SadFran" get loose for 136yds on 26 caries -w- runs of 15-n-25yds than how do you expect to deal with the "3-Headed Monster" OakTowns sending your way...
A word out to Roton...Just Throw baby...HE!HA!...Just Throw Baby...
Now ya know were strong against the pass and you can't stop our run....
PantyRaider...All Too Easy....
PS...It will be nice not to look at that "MuleHeaded" Maggot "HC" The "RAT" anymore on the sidelines when y'all come to town....Good Ridden!!!....
http://neighbors.denverpost.com/viewtopic
.php?f=2&t=13107708&p=970389#p970389
Scorpio: I'm fine with your current "wait and see" approach to Russell. I will support our final 53 men and judge them by what they do in the regular season.
I re-watched the Cowboys game earlier this morning. WOW! Chaz Schilens was VERY impressive. A 7th round draft pick emerging as a potential star and legitimate playmaker is always a good story.
The one thing that Russell was praised for coming out of college was his ability to throw the deep ball. Quite frankly, no matter how strong his arm might be, this is one area that he really needs to improve. What I'd like to see him do is get rid of the ball sooner and throw it with more arc allowing the WR to run under it and/or make a play on it.
Sorry for my absense, guys, but my father passed on Friday. No condolences are required - only celebration for a brilliant life, well lived.
I'll be back to my old self in coming weeks.
"BR"...
I understand the feelings Bro...I'm parentless my self and now so is my wife...
Before my Grand-Pa died he said something I will never forget and I have always praised him for it and tried to live my life accordingly...He said...
"There are many things in life I regret doing but there is nothing left that I regret not trying"
He left everything on the table and was 85 when it finally came to an end...So should we all...
Long and exciting life to you Bro...
PantyRaider....
Roger that, BR.
You're in my prayers.
---Jeff
blanda - i will say a prayer for your dad as well as you and your family.
Cherish the wonderful memories of your dad, BR. Best wishes to you and your family.
Scorpio,
“guys,I said i wouldn't say a thing about him for now and let's see!
No, you said.
“alright guys, i won't say one GD thing about your party boy.”
There’s a big difference in the implication there. That's saying something after you said you won't say anything.
It sounds like you have an axe to grind. Russell’s stats, aside from the non TD were as good or better than Romo’s, yet BSPN was all a twitter over Romo and they had a three and out on their first series. The actual stars of the game were McFadden and Chaz. But the article concentrated on the cowgirls.
BR,
What Arkansas said.
H
calico,
i have to disagree with you. throwing more "arc" is exactly what russell shouldn't do. as pointed out by d. white in the chron, he had too much air and too much flutter on his long passes.
russell should get the ball there in a low lying arc. everyone knows the receivers have great speed. they should run their route as fast as they can to where the ball's supposed to be. this would place a disadvantage to the corners because they'd have to catch them. if he threw it up in a high arc, the receivers would have to wait for the ball or have to come back to catch it. true, there's always the chance for a PI call but the corners also have a better chance to bat the ball away or make an interception.
his arm strength would be better served if he threw his long passes like that.
H,
bottom line is - i said i won't criticize russell and let him do his thing for now.
BR, thinking of you, raising a toast to a great father and life well lived, and a blessed afterlife as well.
Blanda-
To your father, a life well lived. You're in my prayers, BR.
Scorpio...
I have to agree about the "SlowBall" being a dangerous "LongBall"....
These are "Timing-Patterns" and it takes time to get that down...It was reported several times the ball is coming out prior to the player making his cut...This makes it very dificult for the "DB"s to have a play on the ball so they must play the man and risk drawing the "PI" call which as was said is just as good as the completion....Sometimes....
The actual "Timing Pattern" would be to the first read but if he's covered than the "Check Down" goes to who's open and involves normal "Read-n-React" communication between "QB"-n-"WR"....In this case with the long ball "DHB" was drawing the "Double" as reported on the radio so I doubt "Kid" Russel had a good read on the timing and thus was not good on the connection...If he had Top-n-Bottom coverage throwing to a spot on the field would be dangerous but that's the throw in a "Timing Rout" not to the man....The "CowGirls" "D" was looking for it...
What it did do is open things up for Chaz and he did a lot of damage while in the game....So it's going exactly as planed early on but as Cable said in time "DHB" has to learn how to make a play even under the scrutiny of the "Double"...When that begins to happen and the timing is down than we will see an explosive "O"...
Possible "D" reactions...
#1) Play 2 "S"s deep...
That takes them out of run support and short to intermediate support which opens everything up between the 20's...
#2) Play the "Nickle-n-Dime"...
Now they don't have the "LB"s to cover the run and their "DB" are in a "Deep Zone" so the short shit is there and the running is open between the 20's...
#3) Play one "S" deep and tight coverage on the "WR"s...
Now they can't have 8 in the box so this helps the run but also the "WR"s have single coverage and there are few teams who have the "DB"s to cover tight "One-on-One"...Meanwhile "LB"s are devoted to the "TE"s-n-"RB" so that's a huge advantage for the "O" again between the 20's...
The "QB"s threw to 15 different receivers in this came...That's a huge advantage going in...Not that we will have that many receivers to go to but it says we will spread the ball around so in effect confusing the "DC" on where to devote the "Double" if he employs it at all....
PantyRaider...Exciting Plays To Come!!!/_
Scorpio:
The low arc deep ball is only good if the WR is wide open and the QB has a lot of time to sit back and wait for him to get open down the field. However, this leaves a VERY small margin for error. I'm not saying it can't be done but it isn't the best way to connect on a deep strike.
When I said that Russell needs to release the ball sooner, put some air under the ball, and let the WR run under it, I wasn't inferring that he put the ball where defenders can make a play or for the WR to wait on the ball.
The key is Russell releasing the ball sooner instead of holding the ball and allowing the defenders time to react to the ball. With more arc, the ball is targeted down the field ahead of the WR. This gives the WR a better opportunity to adjust to the ball. A low arc pass doesn't give the WR a chance to adjust and it is a much more difficult pass to connect on. A low arc pass is fine up to maybe 35 yards. Beyond that it is only natural to increase the arc.
It is a matter of timing and trust and increasing the odds for a favorable outcome.
Here is the type of humor that is being posted by the "Donko" fan as they cry-cry-cry....
THE B.S. PRESS IS REPORTING THAT THE DENVER BRONCOS HAVE RENEGOTIATED QUARTERBACK KYLE ORTONS CONTRACT AND SIGNED HIM TO A NEW, 30 YEAR, 300 MILLION DOLLAR DEAL
THE CONTRACT IS UNDER SCRUTINY BY THE LEAGUE BECAUSE, WHEN KYLE WENT TO SIGN ON THE DOTTED LINE, HE MISSED.
Hilarious....I'm enjoying the hysterical read....I need something to cheer me up sense the NFL lied about their "GamePass" and I failed to see the game...They showed the "Patsy"s and the Eagles games....
08/15/2009
TE/FB John Paul Foschi Released
CB Ricky Manning Signed
7 seasons 14 INTs 19 Knock-Downs..
– Quarterback Jeff Garcia “left camp to take care of some personal business at home,’’ Cable said
When Cable was asked how close McFadden was to starting and carrying the ball more, Cable said, “I’d say pretty close.’’
When it was suggested fans might want to see McFadden get 20 touches a game, Cable said, “I was thinking more touches than that, but if they want 20, we’ll work on it.
– Asomugha on what makes wide receiver Chaz Schilens so tough to cover: “He outworks everybody on the team and he’s been like that every since I met him. When he drops a pass he’s upset. He’s fighting, he’s feisty. He’s going to help out.’’
The Raiders worked out 11-time Pro Bowl linebacker Derrick Brooks on Friday, but they didn't offer the 14-year veteran a contract. Yet.
PantyRaider....News Up-Dates!!!/_
Well this is the reply I get from the freakin NFL about my demand to cancel the subscription and refund the money....$69...
Dear NFL Subscriber,
Game Pass terms and conditions clearly specify that only regular and post season games will be available on game pass. Monthly subscriptions is required in order to see all post season games on game pass. Please let us know if there is anything else I can do to assist you.
Thank You,
My reply was to transfer the sub to the next month or I will blog about this everywhere so keeping my word I have already started it...
To Be Continued....
PantyRaider....Totally Disgusted!!!/_
"CJ"...
How do you do that with "Top-n-Bottom" coverage if that's what was there....
Monthly Pass
Get unlimited access to live action and NFL Network for an entire month.
Now that was their add so how does that translate into the pre-season games wont be shown but only their determined "Game-of-the-Week"....
"KC" in trouble just like the "Donko"s...
Matt Cassel looks rusty: The former Patriots QB played in three series during his Chiefs debut, but he failed to put the team into scoring position -- or past the 50-yard line for that matter. Cassel finished the game with just 15 yards on 2-of-5 passing
They has 3 Turnovers....
"SD" also had 3 turnovers in a lost..
P. Rivers 5/8 26yds no scores...
If the Raiders can keep improving we will be primed to take the AFCW...
PantyRaider...Wishful Thinking???/_
Blanda - In your dad's memory; Cheers! He'll now get to see every Raiders game.
For what it’s worth, the deep ball to DHB was a fairly high arc ball that was under-thrown. While it resulted in pass interference, it could easily have been intercepted.
Russell definitely has some work to do. He consistently telegraphs his passes, is somewhat streaky with his accuracy, and has had problems holding on to the ball.
That said, when he’s on he can be as dangerous as any QB in the league. My prediction is that he will manage to “wow” us at least a few times this year.
"NYR"....
At least we don't have to watch Orton or Cassel being totally inept...Something could change but for now they look sick and I hope that continues...
With Garcia taking leave and Cable worried about how much camp has been missed I'm looking for news of a trade or retirement...
"Glad-to-be-a-Raider" -n- "Fry-the -Competition" are looking pretty damn good and either could run this "O" as it appears now...We have very good depth so that means "Kid" Russell is not a major target for the "D" to do a "Take-Down" on cause they may worry about facing the replacements who have more experience and are still young but proven....
PantyRaider....Interesting Season Approaching!!!/_
Sure would be ironic if we signed the guy that put us in this dark age and he was instrumental from returning us from them?
Make no mistake, Brooks snapping Gannon's neck was the end. Norve would have done well with that offense, and I don't think we would have ended up back in the coaching carrosel.
-moshbucket
moshbucket...
If the injury hadn't happened Callahan may have survived so Turner was never here....But Ganon was already looking less than himself before the injury happened so I feel it was like with Plunket...The time was at hand and we had no one to go to to keep progressing....
Now we have addressed that situation very well with 2 young but experienced "QB"s who have shown the ability to run this "O" while waiting for an opportunity behind "Kid" Russell...He has "Back-Up"...
It is interesting though..."TB" took or "HC" and subsequently demolished us in the "SB" that followed while me and many Raider fans considered we got the best of that deal sense we had all those draft picks to keep us competitive but something definitely went south...
The reality is we were decisively defeated on the field and for seasons to come...We just didn't know it at the time...The following season they put an end to our "QB" and our hopes...After 6 long and painful seasons down in the "Abyss" of our "BlackHole" we rise by defeating those same "Buc"s while knocking that X-coach out of the post season and he gets run out of town...
So if we now use one of those players who helped knock us off the top of the AFC to fulfil our ComeBack than ironic becomes Full-Circle...
I hope we make the deal and he still has enough left to take us as far as we need to go...His money will be small at this point because teams just don't have the Cap space for a large contract...A cheap but good addition is desirable...
PantyRaider...TrainWreck Survivors!!!/_
PR:
One of the keys to deep ball connections is the QB's ability to freeze the deep safety momentarily by looking towards the other side of the field.
For example:
DHB wide left with 1 deep safety playing centerfield.
Russell needs to turn his head and shoulders towards the right as if to pass to Schillens running an intermediate route on the right side of the field and then come back immediately and launch the ball towards the left sideline.
The timing is critical. Russell picks a spot down the field, releases the ball after looking off the safety. The deep safety has a lot of ground to cover especially if he has been pulled to the right side of the field.
The problems that I've seen with some of Russell's deep passing attempts are;
(a) He has underthrown the ball
(b) He has telegraphed where he is going.
(c) He hasn't put the ball in a place where the WR can adjust to the ball and/or go up and get it while the defender has his back to the play.
(d) He has held on to the ball too long allowing the safety to make up ground and bracket the WR.
"CJ"...
Now this becomes an interesting discussion...There are several different schemes involving coverage and I didn't see the game so don't know what coverage was initiated....All the radio crew told me was he was drawing the "Double" Top-n-Bottom...
I took that to mean the "S" was not playing far off of "DHB" but following his movements...Also I don't know how many "WR"s were in pattern...2-3...Did "DHB" have "CB" coverage with "S" help or did he have Double "S"s...What type of "Zone" were they playing...etc...I just don't know so I have to speculate here...
I'm going to guess he drew a "CB" and a deep "S" who did not have to run with him initially but stayed with "Top" coverage but not center-field...
Shillings drew the other "CB" and the 3rd "WR" drew a "S" in some type of "Zone" scheme not with "Man-to-Man"....
Now there is some space between Chaz and his coverage as well as with the #3 "WR" -n- the "S" while they watch the "QB" for a clue where the ball is going...
I further speculate on most played "Kid" Russell was looking at "DHB" and drawing coverage off from Chaz...As to how he looked when throwing to "DHB" I can only speculate but if "DHB" had the "Double" Top-n-Bottom that's going to make it dificult to draw away...They need to develop a system together as time goes along so they know where the play goes without the "DB" reacting in time so I think the ball needs to be a "Bullet" and not a "lab"....
PantyRaider...Speculations Only!!!/_
"CJ"...
More thoughts...
The "CB" who had "Bottom" coverage would be playing the man until he has indication the ball is in the air so his back is to the "QB" while the "S" with "Top" coverage would be playing the the "QB" and have an eye on the ball....That makes it dificult to fake the "S" by looking him off....His initial assignment is to provide the "Double" and he has a play on anything over-thrown so it would be safer to under-throw in that environment....
Also I don't know where they were in relation to the side-lines...I would think it better to run the rout 5-10yds off the side-line in order to give the "WR" an area to cut towards the side-line to gain separation not towards center-field where their is more likelihood of giving up the INT...If he's playing close to the sidelines the ball needs to come on a close-line and heading out-a-bounds where only he has a play on it....Anything floated his way would be susceptible to INT by the "S" or the "CB"...
Please let me know what coverage was seen and what "DB"s were on "DHB" for coverage and their proximity to man....
PantyRaider....Fun Speculations!!!/_
Quote from Cable:
“Tom Cable says that Darren McFadden is "close" to getting the starting job at running back and getting more than 20 touches a game.”
Somewhat to Calico’s point. Deep throws need to be thrown quicker than people think. If you look at some older video for technique, the good QB’s would take their seven step drop, set, look, turn and throw. Very little hesitation, very little surveying the field.
If you have a receiver with the speed you have to have confidence he can get there. And, it has to be deep enough that if he can’t get there the defense can’t either.
Russell’s problem Friday seemed to be under throwing. But, that's just from what I have read, I didn't get to see the game. The seven step drop is as much designed to give the receiver extra time as it is to give the QB more time. An extra step or two gives him time to create more separation.
Plus the deep pass is a surprise weapon. Many times it is used when you don’t need it. While I agree he has to look the safety off, it’s got to be quick, all you’re looking for is a step. You keep banging the middle and the short sideline until the safeties have to come up and keep the defense honest to set it up. Then BOOM, as Madden would say. The deep pass doesn’t work if it’s the only weapon you have. That’s why I’m very encouraged about the offense. Multiple ways to attack.
NYRaider,
“Russell definitely has some work to do. He consistently telegraphs his passes, is somewhat streaky with his accuracy, and has had problems holding on to the ball.”
He definitely telegraphs his deep throws, but is doing better on short and medium. And he does need to get the deep ones out quicker. He has made some good strides, but still miles to go before he sleeps. And, I don’t understand the problem holding onto the ball. The guy’s hands are huge.
Panty,
Gannon was becoming injury prone, the injury with Callahan was a torn labrum that required surgery and put him on IR. Next year under Norv, cracked cervical vertebrae, end of career. Now, helmet to helmet with Brooks would probably put me in a wheelchair instead of a cervical collar, so Gannon make the right choice in retiring. That team got old in a hurry and we did a poor job of having young guys ready to take over.
H
Best thing I've read in a long time:
__________
Soon after his arrival at training camp, Raiders linebacker Kirk Morrison learned his grip on a starting job he has held the past four seasons wasn't as secure as he believed...
"He's handling the competition well," coach Tom Cable said. "He has to. He doesn't have a choice."
It's all part of Cable's ploy to create competition at as many positions as possible so that starters don't become complacent and backups are pushed to elevate their play.
_____________
Nothing against Morrison. I expect him to be fine.
But hopefully, this "no one is sacred" approach is being applied evenly and consistently across all positions (Russell, DHB take note).
I truly believe that the end of the scholarship era will usher in a new era of winning.
"RT"....
But as we all know the "Scholarships" are Al Davis' so surly he won't let his players lose time or feel the heat...
Just had to throw that in there remembering all that has been said this past off-season....
"H"....
The point was how do you make that throw if "DHB" draws the "Double" as "Top-n-Bottom" coverage and it's consistent as it evidently was according to the radio...
#1) Overthrow and it's the deep "S"s....
#2) Throw inside and it's the deep "S"s....
#3) Under throw and it's a jump ball with the "CB" as seen....
#4) Put some heat on it and throw the side-line out and only "DHB" can reach it...
"#5) Float it and it's anybodies...
But I'm like you and didn't see the game so have to go by what's written and reported by the radio team...Need a viewer to come in and clarify what was actually taking place...
PantyRaider...Print-n-Sounds All I Gots!!!/_
08/16/2009
DE Derrick Gray Waived
LB Morlon Greenwood Signed
Again, let's give Davis some credit. He can adapt and change, can he not? He can self correct. And by doing so, he can win again.
There's no way we are going to win again if he, as the top dog, doesn't make changes in how he and the organization operates. The elimination of scholarships would be one such change. Winning and losing are not accidents.
I give Morrison credit. Reports are he's handled it well. He's a true Raider and has become a leader on D. Hopefully, the entire front can elevate their play and solve this BS run D problem.
Somehow, though, Sam Williams is still a Raider.
H - The highlights I saw from the Cowboys game demonstrated Russell looking to one side even on short to intermediate routes. There are many tricks at his disposal, which apparently he still needs to learn (or at least implement). It will be up to the coaches to push him.
"PantyRaider...Print-n-Sounds All I Gots!!!/_"
Me too bro.
I realize it's just pre-season, but in the last three games going back to last season we've scored 27, 31 and 31.
Last pre-season we scored a grand total of 50 in 4 games. That's 12.5 per game. Fairly decent change don't you think? Kind of gives you reason for optimism.
H
"H"...
I agree totally...Optimism is high and contagious...It's even spreading to "RT"/"CJ"/"NYR"/Scorpio...
"RT"....
So now if we see something different under Cable as "HC" it's because Al Davis has learned to change his ways and NOT because the "HC" did what others failed to do....Coach the freakin team....
I for one don't buy into this concept at all...Al allowed those previous "HC"s to operate within the system just as he's allowing Coach cable do so now and allowed Madden/Flores/Shell I-n-II/Gruden/Callahan/Turner/"Rat"/Bugal/Lance/etc..etc...etc...In the past...The simple truth is most who were given that opportunity were not worthy of the cause and failed miserably...
Un-Just credit translates into Blame where Blame should not be given and robs the one who has earned it from us and from Al Davis alike....
PantyRaider....Old Silver-Snakes Don't Change They Just Keep Striking!!!/_
Now talk about a "Moving Target"...
Under "SOB" it was said Al coaches the "D" and wont let the "DC" do his job....So now the table has been set to show that when the new "DC" blitzes and employs other techniques that "SOB" failed to do than it's because Al has changed his ways and NOT because that previous "DC" failed in his responsibilities while Al allowed him to do his freakin job....
Ya!...Now I see how that works...
It's all a continuation of the same "Blame-Game" just change the ground rules and come at it from a different direction...In essence...Move the freakin "Target"...
There goes that "Rubber Fence" again...
It was agreed that if Marshal came in and noticeably changed the "D" and it's performance than that supports the fact that Al allows the "DC"-n-"HC" to do there jobs and is not wearing all the hats and coaching the team....But now that Ever Flexible "Rubber Fence" has been moved to suggest that instead the changes imply a change in Al's coaching philosophy....
WoW!!!...Now why didn't I see that one coming....
PantyRaider....Shaking My Head in Disgust!!!/_
Careful using pre-season as a gauge to the season.
Lions went 4-0 in pre-season last year before their record-breaking 0-16 season. And, didn't we win all of our pre-season games under Art Shell Part II before embarking on 2-14?
As far as seeing the plays, go to NFL.com or Youtube and you can see video (more than just highlights) of the Raiders' v Cowboys.
Quick observation concerning last Friday's game.
While it's been written with great detail that we had 14 penalties and some in the media going "same old Raiders," me thinks they doth protest too much.
The Cowgirls had eleven and yardage was virtually the same. It appears there was a flag happy crew working the game.
It wasn't Ed Hochuli's crew was it?
H
NYRaider,
Not guaging the season by one preseason game. Just noting a trend which gives one reason to be optimistic.
Even when we beat the Dolts on opening night, there's still 15 more games to play. Take nothing for granted.
H
NYRaider,
Thanks for the info. After reviewing the video the glass is going up from 62.3% to 64.4% full. Don't want to move too quick on a single preseason game.
Nick Miller seems to be the highlight of camp amongst the UFA's and he didn't dissappoint in the game.
H
I don't know if this works...I just found it on-line...take a look...
http://www.watch-football-here.com/
?gclid=CMeU8Kemq5wCFZcwpAod4glAiQ
Say you can see the games completely from anywhere live...
Ok, if you ever wondered about BSPN, here's something to chew on.
I went to each AFC West teams team site on BSPN. Each had a picture from last weeks games.
Captions (slightly paraphrased)
"SD defensive back just misses and interception"
"KC tight ends celebrate touchdown."
"Denver WR Brandon Marshall jokes with teammates."
All those teams lost.
"Oakland tight end tackled by Dallas Linebacker."
The picture looked like the TE was being cut in two.
If you ever wondered???????
H
I can't begin to tell you how much your good wishes mean to me.
Thank you all.
I'll be back to posting regularly soon.
We might bicker over the grog and biscuits, but we're still all on the same pirate ship. Our flag is at half mast this week. All for one, one for all.
i have just finished re-watching the game. someone stood out huge to me. would someone else besides me go back and watch sampson satele on each of mediocre to large running plays please. just watch him, nothing else. then come back and tell me that jake grove got to the second level that quick and sealed off the flow of the linebackers. not only does he get second level in a flash and get a peice of a backer, he gets his freakin shoulders square and walls off the hole!!! don't believe it. go watch McFaddens big run, you'll see what i'm talking about. nice block by morris on that run too, about his only one of the game.
needless to say i'm jacked about the new addition at center from the looks of the first meaningless game. he could be a steal, 6th rounder and a swap of 4ths for him? kudos to Al...or eh Tom....or eh scouts.... ah hell, lets just give the Raiders the credit then it all trickles down to all the right places.
frkyraider
my condolences BR. my prayers are with you, your Pops and your family.
frkyraider
frkyraider -
No doubt Jake Grove was an under-performer with the Raiders. He struggled to become the starter, then could barely hold a starting spot when he was healthy.
Satele offers his youth, health and agility. And, if you go to Raiders.com and listen to his video interview, you'll hear he has a great team attitude.
IMO, it was too soon for the Fins to give up on him. Alternately, he may benefit from the different system that the Raiders play.
Cable apparently punched an assistant coach a few weeks ago and sent him to the hospital.
Disappointed to hear this about Cable. I understand that aggression is and the occasional fight is part of the sport, (and in the interest of full disclosure I am a huge boxing and UFC fan) but for our coach to punch another coach shows a lack of mental discipline. I am not going to make a huge deal out of it because again this is football.
Roy
The following shows you have to take ALL media with a grain of salt. This was posted by the normally reliable and objective Jerry McDonald.
Cable said: “Each of (the top three RBs) kind of did what we thought we needed them to do.”
Jerry said: “In Fargas case, they thought they needed him to run one time for two yards.”
That’s not true, Jerry. I saw at least one play that Fargas got his body in there and threw a nice block. I only saw highlights, so I image there were other plays as well.
I normally like J-Mac’s dry humor, but I guess sometimes sarcasm can go too far when it takes objectivity out of perspective.
It's the same assistant coach (Hanson) that Kiffin had a problem with. A little too coincidental perhaps. We know Cable holds no loyalty to Kiffin, so there was obviously another set of circumstances which led to this new development.
is this guy still on the team???? if so, WHY?
From J-Mac: "Chances are Hanson will be a witness for Davis in his legal battle with Kiffin over pay."
BOOYA!
100!
---Jeff
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