One Postgame Take
Once upon a time, we were dazzled by the Mad Bomber, Daryle Lamonica. Today, we are confounded by The F-Bomber, JaMarcus Russell, who produces little more than profanity from the mouths of the Raider Nation.
I'm not sure what to say tonight. This was the Raiders' worst home loss ever in terms of points margin. It was the most sparsely attended Oakland Raiders home game since 1968, for good reason, apparently.
Sure, the offense stinks. But the defense didn't exactly step up, either. Allowing more than 300 rushing yards isn't acceptable under any circumstances, especially at home.
We now have just one wide receiver with more than five catches total after seven games. It's mind boggling. Murphy, our only receiver to exceed more than five catches total after seven games (16 total), is on pace to lead our receivers with a total of 37 catches.
Benching Russell was the right thing to do. The wrong thing to do was to create a QB depth chart with absolutely no depth, leaving our hopes in the hands of Bruce Gradkowski.
We are now 31st in the NFL in total offensive points (62, just two points ahead of the Rams), and we are currently trailing our offensive points-per-game average of 2006.
What else can I say? How can we find ourselves in such a dismal state, still, after so many seasons?
For once, I am at a loss for words. Take it away, amigos...
posted by Raider Take at 6:44 PM
141 Comments:
And it looks like Russell remains the starter. If he had any chance at making it in this league - and I believe he was highly overrated coming out of the draft - he has very little chance now. Combine a big arm, with little to no instincts, with a dysfunctional organization, poor coaching staff, average offensive line and no-name receivers, and the writing on the wall is in bold typeface. Top it off with the fact that Al wanted a receiver in the most recent draft and passed on the best one in order to take an average college player (4 TD's only in his senior season!) better suited to track and field. What a waste on so many levels.
Deep breath.
Worst Raider team ever. Our first round picks the last three years (Bey, McFadden and J-Fatty) have set the franchise back for years to come.
Another BOZO convention up in Oakland again. AWESOME!!! Forget the clown car, Al just bought a CLOWN BUS. Cable is fighting Hanson for the driver's seat.
PISSED OFF RAIDER FAN
Cable will probably be fired tomorrow for benching Russell.
This game (and season) really is beyond words.
What's truly sad, the Raiders' management undoubtedly still thinks it’s the players and coaches causing this seven-year epic collapse.
Take,
The worst part is that while watching this game from home, seeing Mark Sanchez eating hot dogs on the sidelines, and Bill Callahan getting the gatorade bucket like he won the super bowl. This so getting really pathetic.
I thought the Giant loss was a new low in Raider history, but this beats it (even though it was preceded by a win). History shows it too - worst home loss ever.
Like anon wrote, all you have to do is look at the last 3 #1 draft picks - all on the road to bustville.
Crabtree has surpassed DHB's production in his first game, as expected. And even with DHB doubling his season output today. Pretty depressing. Crabtree looks like a player! I don't care if he's a diva.
Did you listen to Russell on his getting pulled and his fumble and picks? Excuses for every one. Give me a Sanchez, who takes responsibility, apologizes for his poor performance and says he'll work harder, any day over an excuse-maker.
I read what Russell said. Wow, some of these kids today are clueless about the concept of self-responsibility. In this case, Russell should be embarrassed by his play. But he's not. Crazy. H-bey kind of came off the same way the other day. He said he's doing everything right so far. Uh uh. How the hell can you get better at anything without recognizing the very flaws that you could improve on? Madness I tell ya! Clearly the Raiders organization has a narrow view of what 'character' entails.
Yeah, DHB's perception of his play is crazy too. The kid thinks he's doing fine. In a Scott Ostler article, he says he runs good routes, makes few if any mistakes, and grades out well. Grades out well? Are the coaches telling him that?
Hell, if he grades out well and still has only 4 catches in seven games, then that tells me it's all on the QB for not getting him the ball.
He sounded positively ecstatic today after catching a whopping 2 passes: "It’s good to catch the ball. I had two catches today," Heyward-Bey said. "That was a positive thing during the game. We just as a group we have to do more."
Yeah, never mind the dropped TD catch that hit you square in the hands, Darius. Don't bother mentioning that one. Could have avoided the embarrassing shutout and worst ever home loss.
Well, John C., you wanna' tell me why JaMarcus's TDs seem to usually come on either 4th down or in two-minute offense?
---Jeff
Take, I couldn't agree with you more.
You know, there are many unwritten rules within Al Davis' “The Raider Way" a.k.a. Dictatorship of general business edict. One of those rules is not to air your dislikes about how things are structure within the organization or its players. i.e. (Lance Kiffin)
The players are so convinced, like Cable, that they are a great bunch of players who are just 1 or 2 plays off of really putting something together, huh? Or like Al likes to think, 1 or 2 players away from the SB. I mean being optimistic is one thing, but flat out denial is another.
The bottom line is this. And most of you will think of me as bigoted, racists or what not. I’m a person of ethic origin, so those comments can be negated. When black athletes are set above most other athletes either based on certain gifted skills (and I use that term lightly) they command a sense of praiseworthiness. They are preconditioned to believe they are inherently greater players than most of their counterparts; hence the demeanor of Russell and DHB. Enough of the excuses Cable and Co. Put up or shut up. Thankfully Russell is not a Randall Cunningham, Warren Moon and Dante Culpepper. I mean those guys were horrible weren’t they?
Ark, he has two touchdowns all season, and his TD% is in the mid-one percentile. What kind of sample size is that? Yeah, during his career, he's thrown 7 TD's in the 4th. Gee, maybe that has to do with the fact that teams are playing soft on the Raider in the 4th quarter when they are down. Regardless, his stats are crap, no matter what quarter. Two-minute offense??? LOL Yeah, this kid is real clutch...not. Watch his eyes Ark. He's completely confused out there, and he doesn't have the ability to look off his primary receiver. When a play breaks down, JaMarcus throws insane passes to NO ONE. PLUS, the kid can't even recognize his own mistakes. And that's taking into consideration that he's running the most simplistic offense in the NFL. I'm gonna say: this kid is the dumbest QB I've seen since Ryan Leaf. And I have no idea what you're arguing. Are you really trying to sell the idea that JaMarcus is a clutch QB, or are you just saying that he's one-dimensional and can only excel in a no-huddle offense? Umm, that's not gonna make the cut.
Great. Now what.
I would have expected Jeff Garcia to be the Raiders' QB by this point in the season, given Russell's uninspired play. But for some reason, the Raiders decided not to have a veteran QB on their roster, just as they decided not to have a veteran WR.
There's no question that Russell's play, along with the ineptitude of his WRs, is absolutely deflating this entire team.
When you add in bad coaching and poor management, we are basically screwed as fans.
I enjoyed watching the Steeler-Vikings game. I love watching 2 really good teams compete for 60 minutes.
JF
Richard Seymour + 316 yards rushing - 1st Round Pick in 2011 = ???
Holy cow!, How many times does it need to be repeated that Garcia figgin' ASKED to be released? Every Monday there is at least one clown posing the idea that the Raiders mysteriously decided to give the best QB on their roster the boot.NObody knows why Al Davis would do such a stupid thing. For Chrissake,they gave the guy what he wanted!Thats why he's no longer a Raider. How many times do you have to hear Cable say Jeff Garcia asked to be released. How many times does Garcia himself have to say it? And he has. If he hadn't requested his own release he would be a Raider today. No, it's just weaseir to add it to thw Al Davis bashing.
when j-suck gives the jets the ball twice inside the 5 to start the game you cant blame it onthe D. we dont have a team that can spot teams 14 points, once that happen the rest of the game they mailed it in on both sides of the ball. game was over in the 1st 10 minutes.
Being 14 down doesn't make the game over (unless you're the Raiders obviously), especially in the first quarter. There was no reason for the D to mail it in. But then, they've been mailing it in for years. Our rushing D is a consistent joke. When are we going to learn that our linebackers are good at racking up tackles beyond the line of scrimmage, but rarely are they capable of plugging the gaps. Pathetic.
FYI, Garcia wanted out because he saw that the organization was is disarray. He pointed out that not ever player was on board in terms of winning. That is 100% Al Davis's fault. For years, he's mastered the art of creating a dysfunctional environment. Deny it all you want, but the evidence is crystal clear.
You know it's bad when the excuse for the defense is that they "mailed it in" at home after 10 minutes because they were behind.
Maybe they like the sight of empty seats, because with that mentality, the empty seats will only continue to proliferate.
We ask our players to give maximum effort for 30 minutes (depending on their side of the ball) over sixteen games.
That's eight hours total that paying fans ask in exchange for their own effort and expense to attend the games. If that can't be done, then let's make it four hours total spanning only the home games.
Four hours total of maximum effort for the Raider Nation is not too much to ask.
Anon 6:35am said: "How many times does it need to be repeated that Garcia figgin' ASKED to be released? Every Monday there is at least one clown posing the idea that the Raiders mysteriously decided to give the best QB on their roster the boot."
Sorry, I wasn't aware that the players make those decisions for themselves. That explains a lot.
Alternately, there's a 53-man roster being held against their will.
This season is over, might as well see what Russell can do before he gets let go or benched for good.
What we need as a franchise is a QB. Who is out there as a free agent/trade next year? Tavaris Jackson? Brady Quinn? Thigpen? Somebody stop me. I can't see going with a another rookie.
Spicoli
Stoopid clown car!! lol
I don't know if its necessarily "mailing it in" but perhaps just losing focus and reverting to the old bad habits.
The defense held the Jets to like 20 yards (besides the fake punt yardage) until they fell behind by 14 points and then the dam broke.
You don't think knowing they now have no chance of winning plays havoc on ones focus??? You have never played sports then.
Can't get that Aso comment out of my head concerning the DC getting yelled at for changing the defensive scheme. Speculation, but, he probably did get yelled at, thus the lackluster defense vs the Jets. Dc shows the defense in meetings what scheme will be run and the defense, says WTF!!!!!
Al Davis just couldn't keep his dumbass out of it, how absurd is this organization...Al Davis will cut off his own nose to do it his way. How could anyone succeed under these conditions. Intervention, someone please step in, lock him in a room and slap him out of his denial. Al Davis considers himself a legend more than anyone else in the world. When a man's ego is so huge and his mind so old...you can see the results.
JONES
"The defense held the Jets to like 20 yards (besides the fake punt yardage) until they fell behind by 14 points and then the dam broke."
That was just the one set of plays in between the Touchdowns. So it has no meaning.....it's not the defenses fault that a successful scheme was tossed out the window either. It all comes back to Al Davis...he makes the calls, he drafts a lazy QB, most fans knew it when he showed up at the combine out of shape, remember the Picture? Now Al is forcing the HC to play him, the offense is basic because Russell can't work under a complex offense, Al throws out a good scheme on defense, team morale is IN THE DUMPS AGAIN. How many times have we seen this in the last 25 yrs? How could there be anyone questioning why this is happening? One constant, all kinds of different players and coaches, same results....
JONES
Gary shows up with more excuses. In other news, the sun rose this morning.
There's losing your focus and then there's giving up 300+ yards on the ground during the worst home game deficit in the history of the franchise.
But hey, those 39,000 fans (announced) never played professional sports, what do they know, they didn't deserve an all-out effort from our defense, because they never played the game.
These fans got ten minutes of maximum effort, and they should be happy with that, because we're the Lions...I mean, Raiders.
First time I haven't either been at the game or a sports bar here in LA watching it. I decided to wait and listen to the start online. Within 20 minutes I was mopping the kitchen floor.
Bring back Chuckie and Bruce Allen. I'll not invest another cent in this debacle. Seven years of this is enough. I've shown my allegiance to the Raiders, now it's time for Al to show his and step aside.
In the 3rd quarter,my friend suggested moving down to better seats. "Why" I asked, would you want to get any closer to this train wreck? If anything, I would've agreed to move to the upper deck, or even further away from the action...like to my car.
’m a person of ethic origin, so those comments can be negated. When black athletes are set above most other athletes either based on certain gifted skills (and I use that term lightly) they command a sense of praiseworthiness. They are preconditioned to believe they are inherently greater players than most of their counterparts; hence the demeanor of Russell and DHB.
A person of "ethic" origin? You are an idiot. There are plenty of white players who are "preconditioned" to believe they are better players than they are. Brian Bosworth and Matt Jones come to mind.
If you want to make idiot racist comments, stand by the fact that you are an idiot racist, regardless of your ethic background.
AnonASS...12:30pm
"If you want to make idiot racist comments, stand by the fact that you are an idiot racist, regardless of your ethic background."
You need to refrain from name calling. If you want to retort what I wrote, then do it. This is an open blog for discussions.
>>>>
Gary shows up with more excuses. In other news, the sun rose this morning.
>>>>
Hey, at least I watched the game RT... you tried to blame the loss on Seymore when anyone that actually watched would have noticed they were avoiding his side of the field like the plague.
Almost all of the running took place between Ellis and Warren... with the always out of place Howard linebacking on that side.
BTW I think I will defer to JMac on his live blog when he said Seymore is the best D-lineman to play for the Raiders since they moved back to Oakland, over someone that almost certainly quit watching the games altogether.
R.T.-
Next time you should buy the clown car rather than lease. This team is really startin to rack up mileage! Ut oh here comes San Diego. Just Rotate the Tires Baby.
RaiderMike
>>
These fans got ten minutes of maximum effort, and they should be happy with that, because we're the Lions...I mean, Raiders.
>>>>
Well no, if you watched the game the defense wasn't bad until JaMoney gave up his third turnover... and even then forced a three and out only to give up a fake punt due to incompetence on STs... and then another three and out the following series.
The train wreck didn't start until after Russell responded with one of his patented three and outs at crucial times in the first half.
BTW.. to blame the run defense on Seymore is a case study in incompetence... go look at the play by play.. the runs to the left side totaled maybe 40 yards all game.
Here's an example of the play by play after we had them pinned at the three right before half (notice how many times they go right tackle):
#
# 1-10-NYJ 3 (5:14) 20-T.Jones right tackle to NYJ 9 for 6 yards (52-K.Morrison).
# 2-4-NYJ 9 (4:39) 20-T.Jones right tackle to NYJ 17 for 8 yards (33-T.Branch).
# 1-10-NYJ 17 (4:03) 20-T.Jones right tackle to NYJ 18 for 1 yard (33-T.Branch).
# 2-9-NYJ 18 (3:24) 6-M.Sanchez pass short left to 81-D.Keller to NYJ 44 for 26 yards (24-M.Huff). WATCH HIGHLIGHT
# 1-10-NYJ 44 (2:39) (No Huddle) 23-S.Greene right tackle to OAK 45 for 11 yards (24-M.Huff).
# Two-Minute Warning
# 1-10-OAK 45 (2:00) 23-S.Greene right tackle to OAK 39 for 6 yards (52-K.Morrison).
# 2-4-OAK 39 (1:28) 23-S.Greene right end pushed ob at OAK 38 for 1 yard (33-T.Branch).
# 3-3-OAK 38 (1:16) 20-T.Jones right end to OAK 34 for 4 yards (Team).
# Timeout #2 by NYJ at 01:15.
# 1-10-OAK 34 (1:15) 23-S.Greene left end to OAK 30 for 4 yards (53-T.Howard).
# 2-6-OAK 30 (:51) (No Huddle) 23-S.Greene left tackle to OAK 28 for 2 yards (90-D.Bryant).
# 3-4-OAK 28 (:12) (No Huddle) 6-M.Sanchez pass short right to 15-W.Wright ran ob at OAK 21 for 7 yards.
# 1-10-OAK 21 (:07) 3-J.Feely 39 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-85-J.Dearth, Holder-11-K.Clemens.
The Raiders knew the Jets would run the ball all day and couldn't do a thing about it.
There was one play the Jets ran several times on 3rd and short where they stacked 3 WRs to one side, then ran the ball up the middle. The Raiders saw the play over and over, but never defended it.
The last time the Jets ran it, TV coverage showed Rex Ryan on the sideline laughing in disbelief.
Another choice moment was Mark Sanchez eating a hot dog on the sideline toward the middle of the 4th qtr (he was either hungry or really bored). That was a close second to the Jets dumping Gatorade on Bill Callahan.... like Callahan worked some magic with his O-line that beat the Raiders.
J-Mac noted that Bill Callahan refrained from calling the Raiders the dumbest team he'd ever played against.
Cable commented that Russell failed to recognize the Raiders were out of formation on one play. Apparently, the Raiders’ offense is too complex for Russell. Time to scale it back another notch.
The Raiders knew the Jets would run the ball all day and couldn't do a thing about it.
I think that is the most damning statement of all. They knew it was coming and still gave up 300+ rushing yards to the Jets number one and number three RB, after Leon Washington left with a broken bone.
btw did not you call that before the game NYR? Because you look like a soothsayer... care to help me with some lotto numbers?
;-)
It was such an epic fail, on every single single level.
And I'm not sure why everybody is up in arms about Sanchez eating a hotdog... he immediately apologized for it, he tried to keep it hidden and Jerry Rice did it once. Maybe it's my Pac10 bias and I like Sanchez, but I didn't think he was trying to show anybody up.
And Callahan getting gatoraded was golden. I'm sorry I'm so fed up, good for him.
Anyone who thinks Al's defense is capable of greatness is absolutely clueless. The trending is clear here. To blame their lackluster play solely on the offense is madness. The rest of you got it right: the Raiders knew the Jets were going to run, and STILL couldn't do anything about it.
One of the biggest problems in our run defense is that our LB's think their job is to throe their body into one of the linemen (thus taking himself out of the play) instead of shedding off the lineman and making the play on the RB.
I don't know if this is just a hangover from the inept SOB days or Al himself is teaching them to do this... but if you watch any big play given up by the Raiders on the ground we always have a LB sacrificing himself at the LOS instead of playing his gap.
OK stat time: Running plays to the Seymore/Kelly side (LT/LE) 7 for 23 yards.
Running plays to the Ellis/Warren side (RT/RE) 26 for 113 yards.
Plays to the RG gave up a staggering 8.6 yards a carry, and runs up the middle were 6.5.
Warren got abused like a granny, and Ellis was not much better yesterday.
I think our main objective next year is to replace Warren and JaMoney.
Gary, you're making me sentimental with your excuses and mischaracterizations. It's just like old times around here.
I did not blame Seymour for the run defense.
I wrote: "Richard Seymour + 316 yards rushing - 1st Round Pick in 2011 = ???"
Remember when you freaked out that I would dare question the value of the Seymour trade?
Now, let's see, the Patriots got our 2011 first round draft pick, and we got the 30th ranked rushing defense in the NFL through seven games. How's that working out?
I know that in your world this constitutes value, which would explain why you've defended nearly every bad move the Raiders have made over past several years.
My point wasn't that Seymour was to blame for the run defense. My point was that his presence is having minimal impact if we can still give up 300+ rushing yards and, in your words, "lose focus."
Hey, I've got another idea, let's give up our 2010 first rounder for another quick-fix scheme where no quick fix is possible.
That way we could just extend this NFL record of futility in perpetuity. Hooray!
AvantGrape/John C./J.C.:
Dude, the forum has changed, but your argument style has not.
You are arguing something that I've not said:
"Are you really trying to sell the idea that JaMarcus is a clutch QB, or are you just saying that he's one-dimensional and can only excel in a no-huddle offense? Umm, that's not gonna make the cut."
What I said is that he's thinking too much. That could come from too many signal callers over the last three years, that could come from not studying the playbook, that could come from him not absorbing the playbook despite studying, I don't care.
He's thinking too much, period.
When he's in read-and-react mode/gotta' get it done NOW mode, he seems to see in clarity and gets it done. This is usually in two minute offense or 4th and goin' for it offense. He does well there.
I am far from the only person who has said that we need to put JR in shotgun/no huddle/two minute drill for the entire game. I think that would maximize his skill set.
As far as the rest of his game, obviously he leaves a lot to be desired, to purposely understate it a bit.
However, once he gets that down--IF he gets that down--he could be a monster.
JMHSO
---Jeff
Seymour isn't staying around either.
That's only if you are calling Seymour a liar, J.C.
Are you?
---Jeff
Jerry Mac..
– Asked Cable whether he would have liked to see Russell meet the issue of his benching head on with the media and be accountable in that regard,and this was his response:
“I think when he’s comfortable enough to do that, mature enough to do that, he feels good about where he’s at as a quarterback, I think that will happen,” Cable said. “I think it comes with the development at that position. Probably being scrutinized isn’t anybody’s favorite thing to do but it’s part of our job. You can’t run away from it necessarily but I think you have to be at a place where you can handle it.”
In other words, Russell may be getting paid like the face of the franchise, but he’s not comfortable enough to take on the role in its entirety.
Gannon and Boomer were both right.
Let the dice roll...
the raiders are a joke, so there's no use in rehashing yet another debacle.
the most laughable moment to me was, after game, rex ryan said to reporters, with tears in his eyes, how this win meant so much to him because of how badly raiders treated his bro, rob.
WHAT ? rex should write al davis a check for one million dollars as thanks for carrying rob's dumb ass for 5 years.
what other team, except the goofy raiders, would keep rob the terrible around for so long just because "the owner likes him" ?
hell, al davis even fired 2 HC's in defense(sorry for the pun) of rob.
well, it won't take rob ryan 5 yrs to be fired in cleveland.
i guess those games against the browns will then be of greater significance to fat head, rex.
btw, how come rex didn't hire rob in the off season ??
The early line has the Chargers favored by 17 points.
That college-like spread looks conservative compared the 38-0 thrashing by the Jets, as well as the three other losses by 20 or more points.
But Cable thinks we're on the brink of a real breakthrough.
Meanwhile, our QB can't figure out why he was benched... he said he made all the right reads. So I guess the 13 turnovers he's coughed up and his negative QB rating had nothing to do with it.
Note to Russell: Man up!
As for last week's prediction, file that under "duh."
However, you may be surprised to see the Raiders bounce back and bring the fight back to the Chargers this week. I believe they will continue on this crazy "good week, bad week" pendulum. I’m not saying they’ll win, mostly because Rivers is 10x the QB that Russell is.
Personally, I’m hoping the Raiders wear their white, throwback jerseys (the black ones didn’t work).
Cable said that on the first play, JaMarcus' problem was that he lined the offense up wrong, and because he lined the offense up wrong, caused him to hold the ball long, which in turn caused the fumble. His mistake was that he didn't even have the play right from the time they left the huddle.
My question to Cable then is this, "Why didn't you call a time out? Why did YOU (as HEAD COACH) allow that play to continue?" So I think JaMarcus was wrong in that, but Cable was also wrong for allowing them to even snap the ball.
His interception in the end zone, Cable said Watkins made a great move inside the CB, and JaMarcus should have drilled the ball to the inside instead of throwing it up. I agree with that, actually. That comes from not knowing, or working with your receivers. That further proves that he doesn't watch film with these guys and discuss what they would do; nor do they practice those situations during the week. It further proves that JaMarcus is "just going through the motions" of his position, which was the biggest knock against him coming out of college.
Again, my BIGGEST problem with all of this is that they just let JaMarcus sit on the bench by himself. No other coach was there talking with him, showing him pictures (or overhead projections), he wasn't "on the phone" discussing things; HE WAS BY HIMSELF ON THE BENCH THE REST OF THE GAME! A big part of coaching and preparing your team happens during the game, making adjustments. A big part of TEAM CHEMISTRY, and a QB building a relationship with his WRs, is grabbing game photo's and going over the situational coverages and what they will do differently. Instead, they allow him to sulk on the bench without guidance. They aren't helping him BE the face of the franchise. I would have a lot more respect for the coaching staff, and what Cable said about JaMarcus' mistakes, if they had shared that with him ON THE SIDELINES DURING THE GAME!
Now don't get me wrong, I am not defending JaMarcus in any way, I think he's wrong, and I think his play is crap. But at the same time, this coaching staff is not doing everything they can to help him succeed. "Dear Kettle, you are black. Sincerely, Pot."
It's pretty clear that the coaching is equally as bad as the playing.
Somebody made the point that Fassel should be fired as STC for not conveying to his players what Cable told him about the probability of a play fake on ST.
It seems obvious that you would maintain a "spy" to prevent any such fake from EVER happening.
So Coach Calbe is sayinig that he and JaMarcus have "cleared the air" and that JaMarcus "understands why he was benched". But the question remains, even though he understands, does he truly care?
Most QBs have more TD passes in one game than Russell has all year, yet he wonders why he might get benched.
It's really amazing how casual Russell is about his poor play.
Sanchez had a bad game against the Bills and took it like a man, saying he needed to work harder and play better. He backed up those words and helped the Jets thump the Raiders.
Conversely, Russell deflects blame to others, stating he made all the right reads.
Seems like a lot of people in Alameda are in denial these days.
Couldn't bare to read posts here, but had to mention this because it was so funny.
Evidently Tom Cable won an award.
Right there, first 'headline' on raiders dot com:
Highschool Coach of the Week.
-Moshbucket
Lined up the offense wrong on the first play of the game. Wow! This guy's getting worse, not better.
And about that porous run D. I know Raider fans love our linebackers, especially Morrison and Howard, but maybe they're the weakness. They're fast and active but maybe they are just weak at the point of attack. It seems to me they need a strong, stout middle linebacker ala Matt Millen. How sweet if they had picked Brian Cushing over DHB. The guy's relentless.
X - Funny you should mention Cushing, because at LB he has scored more points in his rookie season than DHB at WR. Cushing had a safety against the Raiders.
Of course, Cushing can't run a 4.23 40.
"And about that porous run D. I know Raider fans love our linebackers, especially Morrison and Howard, but maybe they're the weakness"
IT'S THE SCHEME, you saw what happened when Marshall put in a NEW scheme vs Philly. How he was going to get "yelled at", obviously he did. Al told him never to do it again, THUS BACK TO THE SAME OLE SAME OLE on defense. The players have said F IT once again. They know what the truth is, imagine trying to play under those circumstances? IMPOSSIBLE to succeed, Al Davis is freakin crazy.
JONES
Well, there is a problem with the scheme, but there's also a problem with player evaluation. Speed isn't everything, and our linebackers lack instinct when it comes to plugging the gaps at the lines. They don't like to get their uniforms dirty. That's a problem.
Bama7
I see no use in blaming any of the players any more. when we get a real front office and a real coaching staff that is allowed to do their own thing, then we can evaluate players. As for Jruss... what Raider QB in the last 20 yrs has been good (exclude the Gruden yrs please)? We are not a franchise that can grow any player, much less a rookie QB. That's why no one wants to play here anymore and coaches and other players recommend other players NOT come here. Hell, we turned Randy Moss into a bust. Think about that, when you evaluate Jruss who is playing the hardest position on the field and came here as a rookie. Randy Moss... a bust in Oakland. Shell said something like, "The patriots will see... his legs are gone." Uh yeah, Art... Randy couldn't make the Lamonica post pattern work.
Scheme and front office... that's the problem.
hey, russell says he made all the right reads.
DhB says he ran all the correct routes.
hey, it's all good in oakland. there's no problems.
just slap each other on the back, and pick up those huge paychecks from uncle al.
hey, let's all meet up with jevon walker in vagas. he got 11 mil from uncle al just to watch the games.
it's great to be a raider these days. LET'S PARTY !!!
"Scheme and front office... that's the problem"
Well, the front office (Al) is the one who dictates the scheme, what other team can claim that dubious distinction?
JONES
"Well, there is a problem with the scheme, but there's also a problem with player evaluation."
IMO, the team showed that they can shut down a good offense when the scheme was right...is it the players? It's so hard for the players when the other team knows your defense in and out + there are no adjustments. This puts so much pressure on the defense. When you keep lining up in the same formation, same coverage and a defensive scheme that has been outdated since the 80's......I give the players a pass.
JONES
Jones, how the heck has the team proved anything to you? This seems like the kind of logic I'm hearing from Gary. You don't use a single snapshot to evaluate a scene and call that evaluation reasonable. You have to look at the trends of both the individual defensive players and the defense as a whole. The bottom line is this: our defense is chronically shitty against the run. That is due both to Al's philosophy, the organization as a whole, and very poor personnel choices. A good game here and there doesn't change that reality, just as a month of increased housing sales doesn't tell us that the housing sector has recovered. There's no 'identity' with this D. Like I said previously: many of them don't like getting their uniforms dirty. Hey, the linebackers are quick, but they don't like getting up at the line and banging bodies. No excuses for it: it just IS.
And BTW, we can blame the offense all we want, but teams like Baltimore have played great D, even though on the field most of the game. There's no excuse for giving up on a play, 14 down of not. Anyone who defends that defends continued mediocrity IMO.
"There's no excuse for giving up on a play, 14 down of not."
Preach.
---Jeff
FUCK THIS TEAM....WHAT A WASTE OF TIME.....IM OUT!
Ummmmmm... Yeah.
I love anonymous shouting.
---Jeff
John C
Do not put me in a comparison with Gary, those who have been on this site know we are polar opposites.
Guess you have a hard time with logic. Quote from Aso, have you read it? The game vs Philly, did you see it? The complete drop off in play vs Jets when the scheme was obviously switched back to the basic Al Davis defense, did you watch it? So, putting this together with the fact that Blitzing is a 4 letter word in Oakland which reeked havoc on Philly...see what I am getting at?
Give the players a CHANCE before you can evaluate them, in the Raider defense or offense, you cannot properly evaluate any player. The basic defense, without adjustments and same formations.....no player can succeed in that.
JONES
Jones, we blitzed against the Eagles because they decided not to run on us at all. And truly, the Eagles are fairly overrated: their O-line is average at best. Now, I apologize for putting you in the same boat as Gary. That was a knee-jerk reaction on my part, and a pretty low blow looking back at it. But I disagree that one or two games tells any big story. I've seen that we don't play the run well time and time again. The scheme sucks, yes; although, it didn't become anything more than a base defense in either of the games you were talking about. Instead, teams expected us to play one way, and we threw a wrinkle in. The expectations are so low for any team that plays against our D, that of course a team will flub against us from time to time. We don't disagree that the Al Davis D is backwards. But I also see that Al drafts for athleticism above all, and that really kills us both on offense and defense. Take JaMarcus for instance. The Raiders don't allow any QB to flourish in its system, but JaMarcus IMO would be a bust on any other team. He's slow and lazy. Bad combination no matter what the situation.
Fortunately, I was unable to witness the clown car taking a "victory" lap around the Alameda track. I had to fly out to Ohio on Sunday morning for a business trip.
A few points to make about the blitz.
Most fans naturally associate the blitz with pass pressure. However, most sophisticated defenses (college and pro)incorporate run blitzes as a part of an aggressive defense.
Playing a vanilla, predictable, passive D at the college or pro level regardless of the opponent is a recipe for losing.
I have to assume that our DC is very familiar with coaching different blitz packages (zone blitz, corner blitz, delayed blitz, run blitz etc.)
I have to assume that professional football players who are above average athletes and earning substantial sums of money are more than capable of executing the different schemes and blitzes.
So what gives? The only answer that I can come up with is that Davis has Marshall's hands tied which in turn has the players' hands tied.
If you bring up the Eagles game, it is nothing more than an aberration. 1 game out of 7 using the blitz as a vital tool.
If we didn't blitz vs. the Eagles and played 90% M2M, we would have lost by 2 touchdowns.
We might end up with more wins than the 2006 team (2-14) but the 2009 team could be worse if that makes sense. The Broncos, Giants, and Jets games were 3 of the most lopsided games in the past 20 years. The average deficit for these 3 games (2 at home) was 34 points or very close to a 5 TD deficit.
>>>
I did not blame Seymour for the run defense.
I wrote: "Richard Seymour + 316 yards rushing - 1st Round Pick in 2011 = ???"
>>>
LOL!! If this wasn't blaming the rushing yards allowed on him WHY DID YOU MENTION ONLY HIM???...
You are a pant-load RT!
Seymore is the best defensive lineman we have had in years... anyone that ACTUALLY STILL WATCHES THE GAMES would know this.
I like how you don't even try to deny that you stopped watching the games.
Why is that? Because you know I nailed it?
>>>>
John C. said...
Seymour isn't staying around either.
>>>>
Ok genius... where is he going next year?
>>>
They aren't helping him BE the face of the franchise. I would have a lot more respect for the coaching staff, and what Cable said about JaMarcus' mistakes, if they had shared that with him ON THE SIDELINES DURING THE GAME!
>>>>
Why isn't on JRuss to man up and still involve himself in the game?
Gary, you don't know when to quit while you're behind, do you? It's a lesson you should teach our defense.
You (and many others) told me that it was a fantastic idea, on the eve of the season, to panic and give up a first-round draft pick for Richard Seymour, as if we were one or two players away from doing some damage.
Now you're pouting because I dared to bring the subject back up in the wake of a loss that revealed just how unimproved our defense is. Boo, hoo.
We are now 30th in rushing defense after giving up 300+ yards at home. Is that Seymour's fault? Of course not, I never said it was, so quit flapping your gums about it.
I am just pointing out that we are getting very little return on our investment at this point, and that just as we are facing rebuilding (again) we will be missing a first rounder as part of the process.
You seem to be on board with the 10-year plan to reach .500, and continue to make excuses for everything, and love wasting first rounders on guys like DHB, so I can see why you'd be bothered by my take.
And don't tell me I didn't see the game, I don't live in the blackout area.
"You seem to be on board with the 10-year plan to reach .500"
Raidertake, what makes you think we will reach .500 by yr 10 of rebuilding/reloading ?
it looks to me by yr 10, we might win zero games.
Take,
What makes you think a 1st round pick in 2011 will make a bit of difference? The last 3 1st rounders have been less than spectacular. At this point I hope the Raiders trade away all their 1st round picks. They are a lot of $$ for not much return.
I liked the Seymour trade. It was a risk that needed to be taken. Has it panned out as hoped? No. But likely the defense would be worse w/o him.
JF
JF, thank you for actually addressing what I was saying. Gary, put down the scissors and take note.
Now, JF...One way to read your take is that we got over on the Patriots because we saddled them with one of those costly, overrated first-round picks in the crapshoot known as the draft.
But you are looking at it from a uniquely Raiders perspective.
From the Patriots perspective, the draft is just one more opportunity to scout well, draft the next Richard Seymour, and get nine prime years out of him before trading him to the Raiders for another first-round pick.
only diff of not having 1st round pick in 2011 is, al will have to draft track star in 2nd round instead.
It's incredibly depressing to think that a whole new set of changes need to be made before we can hope to pull ourselves out of the abyss. It's even more depressing to think the next round of changes will almost certainly resemble the last....
I'm sure Davis thinks he still has the answers, it's just that he can't get others to effectively implement his solutions. It’s been a vicious cycle for far too many years. You would think any reasonable person would see this.
>>>>
I am just pointing out that we are getting very little return on our investment at this point, and that just as we are facing rebuilding (again) we will be missing a first rounder as part of the process.
>>>>
Thats exactly the short term I WANT IT ALL NOW OR I AM GOING TO HOLD MY BREATH UNTIL I TURN BLUE thinking I have grown to expect from you RT.
He's not helping NOW.. so what good is he? You are like a dude that dates a bisexual super model and doesn't get his dick wet on his first date so he sez fuck it!
Seymore at least gives us a CHANCE to turn things around by next year, and it sounds to me he is trying... even suggesting via the press the team needs to practice "live" (ask someone what that means).
So if the run stopping gets fixed by the end of the year, are you going to continue to pound your little fists on the ground RT? How about next year? How about if he signs a long term contract and we end up with the top rated run defense by 2011 (that seems to be the only year you care about) will you FINALLY stop whining like a little child by then?
When will you stop whining RT?
After they win another SB?
(I sincerely doubt it).
>>>>
From the Patriots perspective, the draft is just one more opportunity to scout well, draft the next Richard Seymour, and get nine prime years out of him before trading him to the Raiders for another first-round pick.
>>>>
Please try apples to apples sometime RT...
The Patriots can AFFORD to allow one of the best linemen in the NFL go because they have most of the other pieces already in place.
The Raiders OTOH are simply trying to stop the bleeding. They need some PROVEN players now (something Al should have addressed by picking up a proven WR last off-season)... so they can help out all the young guys.
So here it is... RT is going to whine like a baby because the team he likes keeps losing, and at the same time he wants to hold on to our 2011 draft choices because there is no hope now (while whining that we never use our draft choices on d-linemen)
Methinks you just like to whine RT.
You should rename this site "Whiner Take"
Sounds like defending the organization's bad decisions for so long has made you defensive, Gary.
Your only defense now, as before, is "What if..." What if Seymour reinvents our defense!!! What if, indeed. So far, it hasn't happened. What has happened is that we've sunk to 30th in rushing defense.
Here are the things you blasted me for saying over the past nine months:
-Our coaching search was a joke.
-Our head coach choice was very questionable.
-Our draft was a mess.
-Our preseason was an indicator of bad things to come.
-The Seymour panic trade was not a good decision from the standpoint of value.
Boy, was I wrong, eh?
Then, as now, you called it "whining," primarily because you can't handle the truth.
If you lived in Detroit, you'd still be the president of the Matt Millen Fan Club. I get it.
I think we do see the benefits of Seymore. He has allowed our LBs to step up and make plays; and they have showed they cannot.
The strength of any defense in this League is the LB crew. Yes, it doesn't hurt to have some pressure guys on the D-Line to make a push and create pressure; but the result of those things are to create opportunities for you Linebackers to make plays (much like the O-Line makes holes for the RB and QB to make plays).
Take a look at the above average defenses right now, and their strength is in the play of their LBs. The Ravens are prime example; the play of their LBs is the strength of that defense. The Patriots are the same, so are the Giants, Cardinals, Doncos, Bears, etc. Adding Seymore was huge for us in the immediate aspect. He has created double teams allowing for our LBs to make plays and create pressure, as well as other D-lineman. But it is clear our LBs are a step behind of where we need them to be, as far as reading the development of a play.
So I disagree that we haven't seen the immediate effect of Seymore; because we have. He is doing exactly what I thought he would do; and that is make the defensive front better to let our LBs make the plays they need to do (something Kelley and Sands weren't doing); but now our LBs have been exposed as average-to-below-average. So everyone who was complaining a few years ago that Morrison and Howard needed to be in the Pro-Bowl; no, they don't.
Seymore cannot change the play of this defense single-handedly; but he is a key figure; an anchor to build a LB crew from. Something we have neglected since we let Beikert go. Just saying.
Gary, I don't think RT is whining; he is disgruntled (like me) because we know the Raiders are a better team than this. We saw as much against the Eagles. But it appears the effort and work to do it consistently is not there. Even Cable said as much (just read J-Mac's article today).
Again, my problem with all of this, is on any other team; during the game you see coaches talking with their players during the game, going over formations from pictures, and making adjustments to improve and teach. You don't see that with the Raiders.
So to me, for Cable to call out the play of his team, is like the pot calling the kettle black. If he wants his team's attitude and play to change, he needs to coach during the game and help them function together. Something NO Raiders' coach has done since Gruden left.
Yes the play of our team offensively and defensively stinks; but I don't see the coaches on the sidelines helping them.
"The Patriots can AFFORD to allow one of the best linemen in the NFL go because they have most of the other pieces already in place."
Gary-- Why do the Patriots have "their pieces in place" and the Raiders do not?
JF
JF, you've just given us the perfect window into Gary's world with that question.
Fair, RaiderNate, but my point is "return on investment," not that Seymour is bad, or that he's not helping in some way (hey, we're not 32nd in rushing defense, right!?).
My issue is value, and how his trade shows that we are still more prone to panicking than planning.
Folks argue, well, you're pissed because we didn't draft a lineman, but when we gave away a pick for a lineman, you're not happy, so what gives?
What gives is that Seymour is surrounded by overwhelming mediocrity, so his impact is minimized. It's like putting leather seats in a Pinto. Hey, nice seats! Too bad you can still only go 45 miles per hour.
At some point, we need to get serious about building a new vehicle, one part at a time, with a plan, and through the draft and timely, smart free agent acquisitions.
Now, if we'd drafted a solid d-lineman of the future and THEN traded for Seymour, then Seymour's value to the Raiders would have skyrocketed.
Instead, we draft a DHB, then panic trade for Seymour, who is then on the field all the time with his weak linebackers because DHB and his friends can't get a first down. How can he add a lot of value in such a situation?
We overestimated our defensive talent (again) because we don't have a GM or proper talent evaluation system.
It took us an entire preseason to figure this out, so we panicked, and put leather seats in our Pinto with little regard to the long-term cost.
If and when we FINALLY decide to rebuild the vehicle the right way (hopefully starting in 2010), it's the Patriots who will be holding a key component of the process: our first-round draft pick.
Nice double-clutch, RT. ;^)
---Jeff
RaiderNate said,
"Yes the play of our team offensively and defensively stinks"
you forgot special teams.
we stink at that to.
just wanted to cover everything.
Good catch, Arkansan!
LOL
I just happened to open the page while it was there. I was as surprised as DHB to catch it.
---Jeff
I'll have to teach JRuss about proper checkdowns!
Seymour is a good player, not Hall of Fame good, but good. This argument needs to be looked at 3 ways. Look at Al Davis' track record on top 1st round picks, it ain't pretty. Look at all the money locked into top 1st round picks. Could the Raiders afford ANOTHER top 1st pick? When again this year the Raiders will have to shell out a massive amount of dough for a top 1st pick. Does Al ever trade down?
Second, the D-line was a problem, Al got Ellis and Seymour this, on paper, should show a high upgrade on the line. This line looks the same as 4 years ago. Is it the players? Anyway, point being that IF the Dline had become dominant, it makes it so much easier for the rest of the D. It's not happening. It really looks like our Dline from the 90's, one on one matchups, no blitzing...anyways.
Third, the value of the top first pick COULD be traded for higher value on draft day. This will be especially true if Seymour does not sign with the Raiders. I'm leaning to the " Seymour won't sign" side. Wouldn't it be another kick in the ass if he signed with the Patriots?
The trade would have been a good one if it worked, put the D over the top. They are still sliding down the shit rope, so, value has not been fulfilled. This trade has many sides, put that in Raider front office terms = CHAOS.
JONES
Hah!
Tell you what, RT: You teach JRuss, I'll work on DHB.
---Jeff
JONES, Seymour has said that he wants to sign with us--because he sees it as a new challenge.
You can go ahead and check that one off the list.
---Jeff
Ark
The season isn't over yet...We'll see how Seymour feels about that when he has put in a full season in Al Davisville. He is trying to lead...but he might be getting the sense that the culture that is the Raiders is UNCHANGABLE. His realization of that...another team offers him a sweet deal out East.....think about it, what would you do?
JONES
I agree that the Seymour deal demonstrates added value IF we presume that the first pick in the 2011 draft would be bungled.
If that is our presumption, then that's something that is factored into the value equation.
Being the optimistic guy that I am, I'd like to believe that by 2011, we'd have a proper GM and scouting system in place, and that we'd have started treating the draft like an opportunity, not a crapshoot and track star competition.
Hence, I must place significant value on that pick.
HAHA, some around here would beg to differ on your "optimistic" comment. I only have one thing to say...until Al Davis let's go and if it is before the 2011 draft....I don't see it happening.
Been reading that Gruden might be open to coming back....is Gruden reaching out to Al? IF Gru came back, most certainly Gru would have it in writing that Al needs to sit down... Can't see Gru lowering himself to a puppet like Cable...if we have a new management in place, there would be no more clown car, THEN WHAT??????
JONES
JONES, I'm only going by what Seymour has publicly said. Everything I've seen so far--including his actions, his words, and what his teammates have said--tells me that he's a man of his word.
If you want to be a mind reader, go ahead, but don't expect me to put any stock in what you have to say if you do so.
---Jeff
Unless I'm missing something, the Raiders will simply franchise Seymour into submission, just like so many before him.
Re: Gruden, J-mac was posed that question in his weekly chat, and suggested there's no way. Gruden is still collecting money from his previous contract, and appears to have a pretty cush job on MNF... much less stress; far fewer hours.
Also, for Gruden and/or Allen to come back to Oakland, they would have to accept below-market pay, 'cause uncle Al only pays players.
This is obscene:
J-Mac: “...the Raiders have given up 200 or more yards rushing in three games (214 to Denver, 220 to the New York Giants, 316 to the New York Jets) and has lost those games by a combined score of 105-3.”
That has to be another record in futility. Those are high school or college stats; this can’t happen in the NFL, right?
99
100
Hah!
Got it this time.
---Jeff
You didn't lose your "focus." You never gave up. You were in it to win it!
As far as franchising him..... Have you ever heard of Seymour holding out? I have and it was a lot better gig than the one he is in now. His family is East coast, his home....doesn't take much to read that picture on the wall.
Things change Ark, it's BUSINESS, it's the way it works. Lot's of people say a lot of things that don't pan out. How long you been a Raider fan?
JONES
Gruden supposedly said that he would be open to it, according to Tim Ryan. For Gru to come back, the situation that now exsists in Alameda would have to change drastically. It just depends on how desperate Al Davis is after another humiliating season. It was the same way when Al first hired Gru, Al had given in, a dink and dunk offense, are you kidding, since when?
But came the time when Al once again banned all that was new and wanted to bring back the 70's, much to the delight of delusional posters that cannot be found anymore. And since then it has been one blunder after another.
Has Al figured passed his ego...??? More to come in the next episode of Al Davisville,a story of an enigma.
JONES
RT, I gots my eyes on the prize, bud. ;^)
JONES, I've been in the business world as a buyer for Maytag and many years in retail. I know things change. But that's not what you were saying. You were saying that Seymour doesn't want to stay *present tense* and that's not what he said.
And I've been a Raider fan since the 1977 Super Bowl against Minny. How about yourself, Coach? Since you write like a youngster, I'm guessing you're 25 years old or less. That would mean I've been a fan around three years longer than you've been alive.
If you say you're older than that, I'm calling your B.S.
---Jeff
My bad, JONES.
You didn't say Seymour doesn't want to stay *present tense*, you said he won't stay here.
Since you have a crystal ball, why don't you call the Triple Crown Winner for me? I could use the money.
---Jeff
My take on Seymour:
As the season has progressed, he has taken on a more vocal, demonstrative leadership role. Instead of shrinking and collecting a check, he has gone above and beyond the call of duty both in performance, conduct, and leadership.
From a purely performance standart, Seymour has played at a Pro Bowl level. Take a dozen snaps from any game this year and watch just Seymour. The guy is a supernaturally strong beast who demands the attention of the multiple OLine players.
Just as teams game plan around throwing the ball away from Asomugha, teams are steering the action away from Seymour.
Forgot which poster said it (RaiderNate?) but it is our LBs that are killing us. I personally think that our LBs are partially handicapped by the scheme we run on defense. Instead of aggressively filling gaps and moving forwards towards the LOS, our LBs are moving laterally or backpedaling into soft coverage.
Ask yourself this question:
How often do you see our LBs cross the LOS into the opponent's backfield during the course of a game? Our LBs should be penetrating the LOS on a regular basis. Instead our LBs are reading, reacting, and letting the action come to them instead of dictating the action.
Jones: Seymour is without question a very strong HOF candidate by any measure or standard. I would lay out odds as follows:
Seymour signs a long term contract before the 2010 season: 60%
Seymour is franchise tagged: 39%
Seymour is allowed to leave to another team via a trade: 1%
Anyone who knows Al Davis realizes that under no terms will he allow Seymour to leave after this season. His ego will not allow it and he has all the tools (franchise tag) to make sure it doesn't happen. Al knows full well that he will get brutalized for the Seymour acquisition if it is a "1 and done" scenario. Come on Jones, you should know better.
Obviously, it makes sense to retain Seymour if at all possible, but, hopefully Davis takes himself (mostly) out of the equation; thereby, leaving the decision to retain Seymour in competent hands (GM and HC). This process should have already begun.
Hey Ark,
Can you provide a quote that says Seymour wants to resign with the Raiders?? I can't find one.
My take: the Raiders will have to franchise him to keep him, and Seymour will either hold out or join in with the losing culture that permeates the Raider organization. We're talking about an aging player who is still very good, but also on the downside of his career. Playing for a losing team isn't going to sit well with a guy who is used to playing with a professional organization. But maybe he's a money man first and foremost. It's a business after all. If Al will give him 'sucker' cash, then maybe he'll go that route. I'll concede its possible.
I always imagine foam spraying from Gary's mouth. The shit this guy comes up with in his head could over-stuff a textbook on logical fallacies. The guy makes a great case study.
One more thing about Gary: he whined continuously about Gannon when we were WINNING. I smell a hypocrite in the room.
J.C., you can't find a quote? It was audio from an interview about two weeks ago. I heard him say it.
Not to mention he's been quoted several times as saying this is a challenge he's looking forward to.
---Jeff
Here ya' go. Yahoo Search. Sixth entry. You obviously didn't search very diligently, J.C.
---Jeff
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2009/10/richard-seymour-to-stay-with-raiders-i-want-to-be-here-for-the-turnaround/1
“I want to be part of something special here,” Seymour said. “Days like this make you realize this thing can turn around here. I want to be here for the turnaround.”
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/5596/seymour-relishing-life-on-the-west-coast
Not hard to find, J.C.
---Jeff
Same interview, last couple of paragraphs:
"Seymour has no plans to go anywhere. Even though the Raiders and the Patriots were playing at the same time on Sunday afternoon, Seymour knew one major difference. The Raiders were playing in comfortable California weather. The Patriots were playing in a New England snowstorm.
“You saw what was happening there,” Seymour said. “This is nice. This is where I want to be.”"
You sure you looked for it, J.C.?
---Jeff
Seymour also said he started with the Pats after a 5-win season, making the comparison to the same number of wins the Raiders had last year.
What he failed to recognize at that time was the Raiders are still on their way down.
And we've already seen behavior on the field which is uncharacteristic of Seymour, e.g., the personal foul calls... including hair pulling.
Lately, the Raiders seem to bring out the very worst in players... and people.
Hey, Seymour might have been a good free agent pick up (had he been a free agent). You don't give up a first round pick for a free agent. See the difference?
People seem to be mistaking my question of value with somehow denigrating Seymour and his performance.
Is he great? Sure.
Is he lifting us out of the utter dregs of rushing defense? Not yet, not by a longshot. Did he cost us a first round pick? Yes. Is he adding to the lore of name players who come to Oakland on a white horse, only to get mired in a culture of losing? Yes. Will this make it more difficult to sign attractive free agents? Yes. Will he help us break our record streak of double-digit losses? Unlikely.
So was it all worth it? Fair question, don't you think?
Until we buckle down, face the music, realize that we're not a player or two away from greatness, hire a GM, develop a better scouting system, draft intelligently and establish credibility so that we can attract good free agents without overpaying them, I'm afraid a guy like Seymour is just window dressing (or as I like to say, lipstick on a pig).
It's not Seymour's fault. But the only reason to do that deal is so that he can come in here and have a serious impact. I'm not seeing the serious impact, not with us being ranked 30th in rushing defense.
Holy shit Ark..you are plainly a remnant from the stupid clown crew. AKA Blunda,Punty, Gary....
IF YOU COULD READ, I said I am leaning to Seymour not returning....stop trying to paint your bullshit pictures.
As for my track record....I feel no need to defend it, if you look back at ALL my posts since being here, my batting avg is fine thank you.
As far as the coach comment....jealousy, you know that is a sin right? How poor of a person do you have to be to be so deperate to lie about me being someone else on another blog? I've already been through this with CJ, so throw that out the window.How low can you go Ark?
If you can't win an argument, the next best thing is to slander and try to discredit the other person. The "loli pops and rainbow" crew is alive and well with Ark FAKING to try and stay up to date.
As far as me being a fan...1970 bud, if you don't believe me, WHO CARES. As far as the crystal ball......go get your own, nothing for free Mr Maytag repair man who sits on his comp all day waiting for a service call. My age, yes that commercial, the lonely ole fat dude, never gets a call cause Maytag builds them to last. I've been here, on earth, long enough to know a putz when I hear one....good job Ark.
JONES
Hey CJ, shut your yap.....you are on the "crew" but you try to disguise it. Yes it was you who fed the fire of me being COACH because this guy wrote "TRUTH" in his blogs...you guys are freakin desperate, trying ANYTHING to discredit me...wonder why????
There is a very real possibility that Seymour won't be back. He might have made a deal with Al Davis before he agreed to come to Oakland, remember, he had to think about it? That he would have the freedom to leave after this year, something made him change his mind and come to Oakland? He sure didn't want to be here after the trade. That is a possibility, the other is , if franchised, he might just say F this, I ain't playing...he's done it before.
Tell ya, when the crew has a shirt tail to chew on, they sure try their best to hang on....CJ, piss off, your record on here as far as knowing what you are writing about is not good. Stop making out like you are a freakin expert, far from it. Or do you just want to try and pile on to feel part of the "crew"?
As far as the trade goes, no Seymour is NOT Hall of Fame material....though Randy Moss is and Al let him go for a 4th rounder.....so take your BS and shove off mate.
JONES
Hey Coach JONES, your history is that of flame wars and personal putdowns and little else. Your last two posts are evidence.
And you're full of crap if you expect me to believe that you're old enough to have been a fan since 1970. I doubt seriously that you were even born at that time.
I still say you're under 25, living in your parents' basement, posting in your skivvies.
Coach Elkins JONES. You know who you are.
---Jeff
TRUTH.
Bwahahahahahahah...
---Jeff
Yeah sure Ark, If it makes you feel better to think your delusional thoughts...all the power to you. Have at er little man, test me on my knowledge instead of lobbing pathetic insults. You can't cause you will never win. Your knowledge is the dreamy BS that has haunted this site for years. Who was the first to outline the problems with this franchise? Who took it from the " crew" and just kept making you all look like fools? Attacking me to make you feel better about yourself....how low can you go Mr Maytag?
JONES
Hey, Jones, easy man. I don't think CJ was being disrespectful at all. Let's turn down the volume a bit. We're turning into cannibals here.
Hey, when under attack, pull out the guns and start blazing them. You know, this is what I have been up against since coming to your site, can you blame me?
CJ perpetrated the COACH lie, he isn't in my good books, when he writes "Come on Jones, you should know better."....out comes my gun. He loves to try and pile on with the old crew, I'm not letting that go.
I have proven myself on here, if there are those who STILL want to go to the the mud slinging...I'll go there, talk to them. You always give them a pass but hold the fire to my ass. Got to fend for myself obviously and I will not back down....
JONES
Sure. Tell me, JONES, how is it that you run a 5 TE offense, anyways?
---Jeff
Jeff, tell me why you are imbecile.
All my posts and you still think I would say an offense can run a 5TE formation? Disinfo, Panty was good at it and so are you...could be a connection there.
JONES
Jones:
You really are a bit sensitive, no? I am not part of any "crew" Jones. I am a independent thinking football/Raider fan. Go ahead and question my "credentials" or football knowledge all you want. I would gladly bet my last dollar that I know more about the game of football and the Raiders then you ever will.
If you read my post directed at you, I did 2 things; (1) Disagree with you about Seymour as a serious HOF candidate (2) Disagree with you about the likelihood of Seymour being "1 and done".
Guns blazing? For what? Having a different opinion. Yikes. Heaven forbid anyone have a different opinion. You are fine when you are arguing the merits of opinions. You are a clown when you argue using personal insults as your platform.
Here, I will re-state my positions.
Seymour as a HOF candidate:
- 9 seasons w/Pats
- 7 of 9 seasons the Pats went to the playoffs with Seymour as the anchor/linchpin of the D
- 3x SB champion
- 4x SB participant
- 5x Pro Bowl selection
- 3x 1st team All Pro
- Arguably the MOST versatile DLineman the past decade; DL, DE, 4/3, 3/4
Bottom Line: Who was the best defender when the Pats were enjoying their dynasty? Seymour. Enough said.
A good comparison to Seymour is 1st ballot HOF Howie Long who was also a distinguished, versatile DLineman.
Long
- 13 season with Raiders
- 1x SB champion
- 8x Pro Bowl
- 3x 1st Team All Pro
(2) Seymour as "1 and done"
You write,
"He might have made a deal with Al Davis before he agreed to come to Oakland, remember, he had to think about it?"
Really Jones? Davis might be misguided but to suggest that he would willingly make such a deal is nothing short of lunacy.
"He sure didn't want to be here after the trade. That is a possibility, the other is , if franchised, he might just say F this, I ain't playing...he's done it before."
His options would be to (a) accept the franchise tag or (b) retire from football. Yup, another line of faulty reasoning by our foul mothed, know it all, "TRUTH" seeking Jones.
I know your guns will be blazing after this post. Fire away. Frankly, I tune you out when you make ridiculous assumptions and shout out childish insults.
From David White:
"The Raiders have scored 62 points in seven games. By comparison, the 2006 Raiders, who finished 2-14, had scored 72 offensive points by this point."
"This offense is the NFL's worst in total offense, net passing yards, passing average per game, pass completions, pass completion percentage, passing touchdowns, overall first downs (tied with the 49ers), passing first downs, red-zone possessions, red-zone touchdowns and fumbles lost."
______________
I'm sure the D side of the ball is much worse this year - regularly giving up over 200 ypg rushing and over 400 ypg total - than in 2006. The 2006 D was ranked fairly high, albeit teams played very conservatively against them.
This 2009 team has a good chance to rank statistically as the worst offense (worse than B&B) and defense the Raiders have ever fielded.
How is that even possible?
That speaks volumes to the poor level of management, scouting, player development, coaching, etc.
How dare you twist the facts and make that comparison! Pessimist!
New take is up: The Case for Hope.
CJ, by your own admission, you have never played sports...nuff said there
As far as Seymour..when the time comes, it will be Bellichek who gets the praise. He can replace Seymour without missing a beat. Seymour will go down as a good player who had an attitude = no Hall.
As far as being in the crew....you tried and tried to discredit me ever since I have come on this site with the rest of the crew. I TOLD YOU and the crew what was up and you all called me every name in the book. So I went to your level to make my points and the personal attacks kept coming. JUST LIKE WHEN YOU MADE THE ASSUMPTION THAT I AM THE COACH GUY. YOU DID THAT.An outright LIE to get in good with the crew....remember?
You are just a wimp who never played sports trying to be an expert. You miss the mark CJ, all you do is side with what ever group seems to be right and kiss their ass'.
As far as Davis making moves of lunacy...what are we seeing now CJ? You think it is out of reach for AD to make such a move? Now who is nuts?
JONES
Jones:
You are the classic "internet tough guy" ... hiding behind your little keyboard, talking a big game, putting down people who you know nothing about, assuming stuff about other's personal lives, etc.
This internet tough guy act of yours is boring & childish.
Jonesey Boy, question for you:
Have you fought in a war for your country? The guy you are calling a "wimp" has yet go ahead and keep up the internet tough guy act ... I'm so scared of the Big Bad Jones. Yeah right. In the Marines we came across guys like you in bars or other branches ... All bark and no bite.
BTW, I have played sports my entire life and continue to do so. No, I didn't play H.S. football. Who the F cares?
Who's the tough guy CJ? You have to join a pack to feel tough and or belong. You have to make lies (COACH) about other people to be accepted in the "crew". Who's the tough guy CJ? I go it alone, no kissing ass to BELONG. Nope, that would be you CJ, practise what you preach, otherwise you become known as a HYPOCRITE. CASE AND POINT:
" You are the classic "internet tough guy" ... hiding behind your little keyboard, talking a big game, putting down people who you know nothing about, assuming stuff about other's personal lives, etc."
think about it CJ, you are projecting.
JONES
"Yeah right. In the Marines we came across guys like you in bars or other branches ... All bark and no bite."
Another classic, I was in the war...how many times do we hear this one thrown out to "prove" that they really are a tough guy...
CJ, give it up, everyone one of the "crew" have been in the army...is this why you all band together like (ding) bats?
JONES
Jones:
The last thing I need to do is prove anything to you. You started this with calling me a "wimp". Everything I wrote in the previous post was in response to your wacked out B.S.
Yeah, I'm proud of my service in the Marine Corps. You got a problem with that?
You can keep on spewing out the same unsubstantiated garbage all you want and guess what ... it will remain completely meaningless and hollow just like yourself. Deal with it Jonesy boy.
Actually, Coach Elkins JONES, we've not all served in the Army. Some of us have served in the USMC.
Semper Fi, CJ.
TOW Plt, HQ Co, 3rd Marines, '85-'89.
---Jeff
Wow, my heroes, you guys really are the "tough guys".
CJ, if you have nothing to prove to me, why bring up the service? Why even bother commenting on my posts, why even worry about who I am (COACH)? Contradictions CJ, you are full of them as well as an inferiority complex, good luck with that.
Jeff, you are just a remnant from the loser crew, so you are just to be laughed at cause you don't know a damn thing about football, you have proved it with all your lame posts. Go back to the dreamy crew, it's where you belong..."Dream on, dream on, dream until your dream comes truuuue"......
JONES
Marines Security Forces, Bravo Company, Republic of Philippines
1st FSSG, HQ Battalion, Operation Desert Shield / Desert Strom
CPL, USMC (1988-1992)
Semper Fi Jeff!
Damn proud to be a former Marine.
It must be difficult for Jones to deal with guys like us who are proud of being Marines and completely secure in our manhood. Deal with it Jonesy Boy.
BTW, we are still patiently waiting for you to share your football knowledge and expertise. I'm sure it will be a revelation.
BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
Well, given the fact that he's felt the need to make up his age, let alone his coaching history and his fanhood history, it must be *extremely* difficult for him to deal with people who have no such need.
Coach Elkins JONES, you just keep typin' in your skivvies underneath your parents' house. We'll still be here when you're ready to tell the TRUTH. And we'll debunk your mess every time.
---Jeff
Whatever maytag boy. Look at the crew, only tough in numbers, can't stand alone, always have to have help. Your manhood, anyone who has to declare their manhood on an internet chat site...talk about BAAAAAA HAAAAAA, hey CJ? You guys are fart dust, wannabe's.... still think it's so close to turning the corner....FOOLS, everyone of you. Either that or you guys work for Alameda, suckin the ole man's nutsack.
JONES
LOL
You can't handle the...
TRUTH.
*chuckle*
---Jeff
"Are you gonna bark all day, little doggy, or are you gonna bite?"
Post a Comment
<< Home