A Raider Take Apology
I have an apology to make.
I am sorry for taking a largely dim view of an operational approach that has resulted in the extension of the worst stretch of consecutive seasons in the history of the National Football League.
Despite all the sunshine the Raiders have brought us lately with seven consecutive seasons of 11 or more losses, I have been responsible for spreading gloom.
My predictions of continued failure in the absence of tangible change have been accurate yet nevertheless erroneous.
If only I had been wrong, I would have been right.
As penance, I am going to jump off the Oakland bandwagon and move to Detroit, where I will establish a Matt Millen fan club. I will urge Lions fans to stop criticizing the team and to, in fact, re-hire Matt Millen as GM.
Lions fans will feel shame when I point them to this blog, where in my former life, I, like them, dared to agitate for tangible change. They will see how, every January, a dedicated band of self-proclaimed optimists returned here to demonstrate that results are immaterial to analysis, and that substantive change in the face of failure is an unrealistic, unreasonable and, in fact, outrageous expectation.
Lions fans reached a breaking point. They demonstrated for change. They agitated for a new GM. In doing so, they revealed that they are not true fans, but bandwagon fans.
I will show them the shining light of Raider Take, where you can come each January, like the swallows of Capistrano, with the same shameless sales pitch in the wake of yet another failed season, shouting down those who would dare to recommend a new GM or express disappointment.
I will share my story: "If only I had been wrong, I would have been right."
Lions will then see the error of their ways, Matt Millen will return a conquering hero, as performance will no longer be a criterion for the GM job.
Negative words will no longer be uttered by Lions fans, and Raiders fans, inspired by their example, will embrace a new motto: Commitment to Sunshine and Lollipops.
And that is my plan to save the Raider Nation from its misguided disappointment in an organization that that has produced three winning seasons out of the last 15.
Hooray!
I am sorry for taking a largely dim view of an operational approach that has resulted in the extension of the worst stretch of consecutive seasons in the history of the National Football League.
Despite all the sunshine the Raiders have brought us lately with seven consecutive seasons of 11 or more losses, I have been responsible for spreading gloom.
My predictions of continued failure in the absence of tangible change have been accurate yet nevertheless erroneous.
If only I had been wrong, I would have been right.
As penance, I am going to jump off the Oakland bandwagon and move to Detroit, where I will establish a Matt Millen fan club. I will urge Lions fans to stop criticizing the team and to, in fact, re-hire Matt Millen as GM.
Lions fans will feel shame when I point them to this blog, where in my former life, I, like them, dared to agitate for tangible change. They will see how, every January, a dedicated band of self-proclaimed optimists returned here to demonstrate that results are immaterial to analysis, and that substantive change in the face of failure is an unrealistic, unreasonable and, in fact, outrageous expectation.
Lions fans reached a breaking point. They demonstrated for change. They agitated for a new GM. In doing so, they revealed that they are not true fans, but bandwagon fans.
I will show them the shining light of Raider Take, where you can come each January, like the swallows of Capistrano, with the same shameless sales pitch in the wake of yet another failed season, shouting down those who would dare to recommend a new GM or express disappointment.
I will share my story: "If only I had been wrong, I would have been right."
Lions will then see the error of their ways, Matt Millen will return a conquering hero, as performance will no longer be a criterion for the GM job.
Negative words will no longer be uttered by Lions fans, and Raiders fans, inspired by their example, will embrace a new motto: Commitment to Sunshine and Lollipops.
And that is my plan to save the Raider Nation from its misguided disappointment in an organization that that has produced three winning seasons out of the last 15.
Hooray!
posted by Raider Take at 2:29 PM
485 Comments:
i too have turned over a new leaf, i hereby annoint myself part of the "turd sandwich crew"!! how dare the Raiders think i should be their fan after the last 7 years. forget the previous 40 years and the three trophies and 5 superbowls!! what have they done for me today?!! how dare they think that i will stay loyal to them when they have some losing seasons. screw them, they will NEVER be relevent again until Al Davis is 6 feet in the ground!!! until he dies they should just move this franchise (can they still call it a franchise after all this bs?) and move it to the areana league, or over to europe or where ever they play an inept and pitiful brand of football (can they still call it football when they play like this?)
i have seen the light, i shall spend narey a dime on anything that is either silver or black much less has a raider patch on it. they will get none of my money, they suck and will suck from here and forevermore!!! and btw i'm one of their biggest fans.
frkyraider
Now I get it!
Al Davis for GM!
Al Davis for GM!
That was easy.
I'm reminded of the scene in "My Cousin Vinny," when Fred Gwynne (the judge) suggests to Vinny he would like to skip the arraignment and go right to trial; skip the trial and go right to acquittal.
Some posters here would like the Raiders to skip hiring a GM and go right to winning; skip winning and go right to the playoffs.
Pure genius!
Oh yeah, and the best line:
"I'm not about to revamp the entire judicial process just because you find yourself in the unique position of defending clients who say they didn't do it."
Translation:
Some posters here don't want the Raiders to revamp their entire off-season process just because they find themselves in the unique position of losing 11+ games for an NFL-record-breaking seventh consecutive season.
The absurdity of it all.
Thank god I'm only 5'6", nothing you say in your comments make sense to me, sarcasm is suppose to do what RT, again I don't understand?! what lead you to write this, what do the Lions and their fans have to do with the Raiders and their fans, is it just because Matt use to play for the Raiders again this went waaay above me!
I typically make sense of what you wirte and appreciate your efforts to guide this group of "bloggers" well, but today you are in complete dissaray, my brother you need to take a vacation or have Calico or Jones write the next blog, they always think that they are Pereira and Godell.
RT asked:
"... was that more entertaining for you?"
No, and I didn't mean you to take my haiku personally. It was more of a generally directed statement and a veiled reminder (ok, a haiku - perhaps a bit too obscure these days) of how this used to be a fun place to visit.
The point is, football is supposed to be a fun past time, and this used to be a pretty good representation of that fun. The Raiders are terrible; they have not made good decisions over the past several years. Many of us have many different opinions related to what that means.
Generally, I think you (RT) have a pretty solid view of the way things are going. However, I see differences of opinion translating more and more to strong negativity between Raider fans not in agreement about the situation (can't y'all just get along?). I know there is a lot of passion from the contributors here, and personally love debate among passionate folk.
However, posting the same arguments back and forth with the same people posting their same arguments over and over is bickering. Bickering is neither fun nor entertaining. (Most of us probably get enough of that during the holiday season.)
Q: Is football still fun? Truth be told, I had a hard time watching Raiders games this year, and was quite happy about blackouts until I found a way to watch them online (2nd blackout of the season which happened to be Philly). After that, like the football addict I am, I couldn't stop no matter how difficult; even found that I had some fun watching several games this year. More fun than since before Shell 2 (last years two season ending games not withstanding).
Not saying you shouldn't post your take - positive or negative. Not asking you to be cheery about the state of the franchise. Just trying to keep things in perspective myself. I watch football for fun. I get upset when my team sucks and have ideas about how it could be fixed, should be fixed, probably will be... addressed. I discuss these ideas passionately in other forums, but when the conversation becomes repetitive and argumentative, I am not interested.
Now back to the haiku:
I love Al Davis.
Hope he makes a winning run
before his time's done.
Anon, I guess it was finally my turn to not make sense. Now I know how it feels.
By the way I just came back from the raider image store in Lakewood, it's closing its doors today and there is only 1 jersey left, if you want to find out who's jersey it is you can call 562-272-7300
Fair points, Black Begonia.
It is fair point, but it's also difficult to simply talk football, e.g., players, free agents, coaching, draft, etc, when the underlying structure of this organization is so bad.
The Raiders have helped all of us take some fun out of football.
I'm a fan of the game, so I plan on enjoying the playoffs tomorrow. Somehow, I think I will get to see how the game should be played.
I would add this; being the bandwagon fan that I am, I just bought a Raiders' greatest games DVD. I figured it's about time for me start living in the past.
I can hear Rod Serling welcoming me to the Twilight Zone!
The breaking news is that Cable is being retained, per BSPN.
My advice to fellow Raider fans that are sick of Al Davis and sick of the losing, is to follow your local college or high school football team until Davis no longer is calling the shots for the Raiders. That is what I am doing. Here in Florida, I am turning my energy and devotion towards the University of South Florida Bulls, who just hired Skip Holtz as their new head coach last week. My money and time will now be going towards the University of South Florida, until the Raiders can show me sustained and tangible change. I could never in a million years cheer for another pro team, so I am focusing my time and energy on college football. At least at USF, there won't be an 80 year old crypt keeper calling the shots.
Sarasota Raider
BlackBagonia,
THANKYOU!!! I've tried to get that point across many times in the past.
Sarasota,
Good for you. I've been blessed with Bama's resurgence to maintain my football sanity.
Take,
It's OK to cry. Just let it out, man. I guess it's official. Al has driven the fans insane.
-moshbucket
Not sure about BSPN's confirmation, but I was pretty sure Cable was staying once it looked like Al was interview Cable picked assistants.
-moshbucket-o-rumour-mongerer
Regarding the report tonight: "Raiders spokesman John Herrera did not confirm that Cable would remain coach for the 2010 season, saying only that, despite meetings into the night the past two days, no decision has been reached."
Since Herrera would never lie, our head coaching situation remains up in the air.
As of tonight:
Senior executive John Herrera says owner Al Davis' evaluation process of Cable "is ongoing and has not reached a conclusion."
So, as of tonight, there is no conclusion as to who our head coach will be in 2010.
I'm surprised the Raiders are even speaking about Cable at all. Either Al is just jacking with the media, or he's jacking with Cable. Whadda mess. I'm thinking that Cable could stay and Al cuts off his other ball. In other words, Al may be structuring it so he has more say on what goes on down on the field. Scary thought.
It's three weeks since the Raiders' season ended and, WOW, that's some vote of confidence in your coach. Well, we don't know if he's the coach or not.
What we do know for certain is who the GM will be... the same one that's steered us into this iceberg.
I wonder, after all this wavering by the Raiders about Cable, will they make a statement at some point to announce he was the guy all along? Maybe they won't say anything... some cone of silence BS with the media.
So at the end of a seven-year string of horrible football, this is the best the Raiders can offer us. That sucks!
Oh, that's right; they don't owe us anything. We're just the fans.
Onandon -
You got that right. If and when Cable comes back to coach the Raiders, in whatever capacity, he will have been neutered by Al Davis.
As many have said, why should the Raiders have to confirm that their coach is still their coach?
This, we've been told, explains why there has been no statement about Cable being retained for 2010.
Move along, there's nothing to see here, right?
But then why is Herrera issuing statements tonight denying that Cable is safe?
So either Cable's status actually remains up in the air, or Herrera is lying for the sake of playing games with the media.
Strange.
Good points, Blackbagonia. Specifically, "football is supposed to be a fun past time".
Truth be told, I will always enjoy watching Raider games. I particularly enjoy the uniqueness of each game, the stategy involved, and the remarkable athleticism and gladiator spirit demonstrated by the combatants. In short, it is a beautiful, complex, drama filled, entertaining sport to watch.
What I've been desperately searching for these past few years is a Raider organization that gets it's act together and by extension offers genuine hope to the fans.
I honestly believe that with our current organizational structure, the lack of executive support, and our out-dated football philosophies, that we are at a distinct competitive disadvantage.
As far as Frykraider's rant, a couple counter points to your weak attempt at humor? sarcasm?
"how dare the Raiders think i should be their fan after the last 7 years."
Honestly, is there anyone on this board who visits daily who is NOT loyal fan?
"forget the previous 40 years and the three trophies and 5 superbowls!!"
Raider fans are naturaly proud of our past accomplishments ... key word is 'past' ... 3 winning seasons in the past 15 is a pretty good chunk of data. Without the Gruden/Allen years, you are looking at a drowning team for the past 26 years.
"what have they done for me today?!!"
Good grief Frykraider ... are you living in another world. It isn't so much today, last week, last year but 7 solid seasons of complete ineptitude. At what point is 'ok' in your world to understand the difference btwn an aberration and a bottom feeding trend? Yikes.
"how dare they think that i will stay loyal to them when they have some losing seasons."
Once again, you are making a huge mistake by ASSuming that a critical fan and a loyal fan are mutually exclusive. Further, you act like a Raider fan doesn't have the right to express his opinion about a 7 year train wreck. We are not talking about 1 or 2 or 3 bad seasons. 7 consectuive 11+ loss seasons is now an official NFL record of ineptitude. BIG difference.
"screw them, they will NEVER be relevent again until Al Davis is 6 feet in the ground!!! until he dies they should just move this franchise (can they still call it a franchise after all this bs?) and move it to the areana league, or over to europe or where ever they play an inept and pitiful brand of football (can they still call it football when they play like this?)"
No, you are a complete hypocrite. You are constantly saying how others take your words out of context and "spin" things. The vast majority of us believe Davis NEEDS AND DESERVES executive support. Ultimately, he would still have final approval but the organization would have a better chance of sustained competitiveness ... Please name 1 person (besides maybe Jones) who has ever said in effect that "until Davis dies ...". Crickets.
"i have seen the light, i shall spend narey a dime on anything that is either silver or black much less has a raider patch on it. they will get none of my money, they suck and will suck from here and forevermore!!! and btw i'm one of their biggest fans."
As I pointed out earlier there are MANY ways a fan can support the team, be an avid follower, and loyal fan. Money invested is one of the more obvious ways but certaintly not the only way. If a fan watches every Raider game on his t.v. is he a fan? If a fan gets Raiders news from the net daily is he a fan? Yup. Does it really matter in the grand scheme of things whether a fan spends $20 or $2000 in a given season? Nope.
lol, damn CJ. it is called sarcasm, ever heard of it. ripping on me once again, everyone else in here can riff sarcastic and over the top with their posts, but mine you just have to tear down point by point. offend you did i? quite the big surprise. tough crap!! get over it.
frkyraider
Don't worry Fryk, I'm over it.
The funny thing is that although you won't admit it, the same stuff you said in your "sarcastic" post is basically the same crap you projected in your regular posts.
What is really annoying about your most recent posts is that you have weakly attempted to draw a line in the sand as far who is (by your definition) a loyal fan. PFFFFFFT.
Simple question for you ... a yes or no answer will suffice:
Do you think a fan can be highly critical of how the organization has conducted business away from the field and performance of the team on the field AND still be a loyal fan?
If you answer "Yes", then I really don't know why you have a problem with some of the posters (including myself) venting our frustration with the past 7 year train wreck.
it's not the venting CJ. its the constant crying the foot stomping and the "turd sandwich" attitude. gets tiresome. thats all you bring anymore. bring something new, you are quite capable but refuse to shake your doom and gloominess. go have a coke and a smile!!! and get over yourself!!!
that was me, i case you didn't know.
frkybaiter
"Don't worry, be happy."
Gawd, I can't stand that song or the philosophical outlook on life it promotes. The doers in this world worry and get things done because of it. Happiness comes in many forms. Ignoring reality doesn't make me happy.
complainers get nothing done. they just live miserable lives.and who is ignoring, most of us "sunshine and lolipop" guys are just copeing with what the reality is. turd sandwich anyone?
frkyraider
Actually RT your post would make more sense if you became a fan of a team that doesn't make your life so miserable.
I suggest Indy, NE, or Pitts.
Then the "sunshine and lollipops" mantra would be easy to do... their owners are more sensible and methodical, they already have HOF quality QB's in place, and the teams win all the time.
Course by the time they start sucking the Raiders might be winning again..
Might be a tad embarrassing.
Actually, if all the Raider fans protested and didn't come to the games, or buy Raider paraphernalia, Al would have to change. So I do DO something. Sitting there and pretending this organization is going in the right direction, when it clearly isn't is doing NOTHING. Nothing wrong with protest. It's the only tool we have in our toolbox.
Again, Gary why are posting to a place you supposedly despise?
Tap tap.
lmao onandonandon , and how has that been workin out for ya? mass changes happening with your complaints and protests in the last year or two eh? yes complain more!!!
frkyraider
To lighten the mood I will tell you once again what it will take for the faidas to ever be competative again, they need to loise the gangsta thugsta fanatics who only make the faidas look like neanderthals and the "hangers oners" like "tommy boy mr. flowers flores", "gregor papasmear", "jimmy boy the plunk plunklet", "jt the shizzle brick", "artie the midget gigantinoooo", " ol' mushmouth asskinson", etc., etc. They all need to be dumped from the pay-ola rolls, big smell (MR.) davis needs to be lobotamized, or put into a coma to get him out of the football business, then you faida fanatics might see a slow change for the positive! Just hope against hope babies, 0-16 in 2010, 0-16 2011....and then what?
It's not working because there's a group of Raider fans that worship the owner more than they like the team. You're proving to be one of those types.
I live in the real world, and I don't need to hide from it. Rather than complain, I assess the situation for what it is and offer solutions. What better chance is there for change? To do nothing at all, or to protest what's going on at present? Nothing I can't stand more than an enabler. Wake up Al jockers!
Looks like someone just remembered the thier 'pro-bowl' kicker and QB CHOAKED another playoff game for them.
Here we go with the 'enabler' discussion again. Do you really think people walk around with 'Al' t-shirts, hats, and white jumpsuits screaming 'Go AL!'??? Any merc I buy goes straight into the profit sharing pot anyway, so do you think my $5 or so a year (if that) is keeping Al in power?
And I don't understand everyone getting re-bent out of shape every time the press starts yelling and Herrera has to say AGAIN that cable is still under review.
It's like kids in the back seat: "Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?". Any minute now Herrara's gonna jump in the back seat and lay the pimp hand on someone.
-moshbucket
RT-
Great news! My wife does business regularly in Detroit. She gets a corp. rate at the MGM and hosts skybox events at both Comerica and Joe Louis. It will be great to see you again!
Thanks, Memdf! I hope you and your wife will join me in showing Lions fans the error of their ways.
Lions fans reached a breaking point. They demonstrated for change. They agitated for a new GM. In doing so, they revealed that they are not true fans, but bandwagon fans.
I will show them the shining light of Raider Take, where you can come each January, like the swallows of Capistrano, with the same shameless sales pitch in the wake of yet another failed season, shouting down those who would dare to recommend a new GM or express disappointment.
I will share my story: "If only I had been wrong, I would have been right."
And Matt Millen will return a conquering hero, because I will have taught them that performance is not a criterion for keeping the job.
Hooray!
I think I just figured out why there are so few trolls here... the "fans" post the exact same stuff that any troll would post... so what would be the point?
The team sucked for the last 7 years so that means it will suck for the next 7 (despite the influx of talented young players, some veteran pro-bowlers, and an exciting new QB).
I think we get it.
And JC.. its your fault I am here... did you forget about the deal I offered already?
Here's my leg...HUMP AWAY!!
you gotta love the determination of the "turd sandwich crew". they keep yelling and screaming the same tired line day in and day out. big deal, alot of good it's done ya. you've gotten the same exact results that we in the "sunshine and lollipops crew" have. you just haven't enjoyed it as much.
they believe that we live in a fantasy world and they live in reality when the opposite couldn't be more true. they live in a fantasyland were they think that their opinions actually matter. you see i live in the real world, where the reality is my opinion doesn't make one bit of difference. it aint my team, it's AL's, and Al doesn't ask for nor want my opinion. if he did i would tell him that i want to hire a new GM. which the "turd sandwich crew" just can't seem to come to grips with thats what i would like to see.
but Al wouldn't care what i thought nor does he give a shit what you think, (maybe you already knew this) you want to withhold your money for mechandise, he'd flat tell you fine, get out. you want to stand there and tell him your not buying tickets because you don't agree with the way he runs this team? he'd tell you fine, kick rocks then quitter!! you see Al believes that Al will make the right decisions and that the winning will start as soon as next season. he's always believed that, thus the reason we don't rebuild we reload we so often hear. Al believes (and rightfully so) that when the winning starts your bandwagon jumping asses will be replaced with some new bandwagoners. he believes that the butts will fill the seats when the winning starts, he believes that the winning aint too far away and when it does those butts might just be yours!!! he may be right about that last part too. Al is gonna do what Al is gonna do regaurdless of what we as fans say, thats the REALITY and you can deal with it (this is my way) or you can throw a hissy fit and say the same crap about "your" team day in and day out, either way, same result. but the guy that comes to grips with the reality will probably enjoy his daily life more. just sayin.
but the reality is he doesn't give a crap what i think or what you think, the only opinion that matters is Al's. now you "turd sandwich crew" guys keep spreading your that negative shit and i'll keep living in my sunshine and lollipops world and nothing either of us says will have an impact on the way Al desides to do things. but you go ahead and keep thinking what you think matters to the Raiders and i'll just keep living in reality. you guys enjoy your turd sandwiches and fairy dust.
frkyraider
Frky -
“complainers get nothing done. they just live miserable lives.and who is ignoring, most of us "sunshine and lolipop" guys are just copeing with what the reality is.”
This is the same mentality that prevents people from voting in elections.
If nobody ever voiced their opinion or protested, we’d have no freedoms and civil liberties. We’d just be sheep under communist control. Enter Al Davis.
But there’s no need for us to get worked up; it’s only seven years of record-breaking ineptitude which resounds from the position that Davis maintains his stranglehold.
What’s the big deal? We’re on the right track now.
One of the largest of many fallacies repeated here is that I think Al Davis cares what I think.
No, I don't. And you know what? I don't really care what he thinks, either.
Try that on for size.
This is a blog chronicling the Oakland Raiders. If they, to borrow a phrase, continue to "spread s***" on the field, well, the takes will reflect that fact.
If they get their act together, praise will follow.
It's a simple and natural equation that is lost on the Swallows of Raider Take.
Saints fans are happier with their team today than Rams fans are with theirs. That must boil your blood, eh, Swallows?
NYR,
"This is the same mentality that prevents people from voting in elections."
i voted.
too bad we're talking about the Raiders where there is no vote to be had. therefore no voice in the matter. you see it's OUR country but it Al's team. only his voice matters. it's his toy, not ours. you want to withhold your money from the Raiders, he'll tell you good riddence. try withholding your taxes for a season or two, then see what happens.
yeah RT i know you knew Al didn't care about your opinions, you were the sole reason for the (maybe you already knew that) part.
i understand the Raider Take is where the opinions fly. including mine. i have opinions about the way you guys go about your fandom and seeing as how this is the only outlet i like, i'll be throwing mine in too, regaurdless of wether you like em or not. just like you do. i'm just trying to even the playing field and keep this place in balance, for every turd sandwich a little sunshine and lollipops must fall.
frkyraider
"Al won't care what any Raider fan thinks"
Well, that pretty much sums up the problem huh? Al will only listen to those who kiss his ass. And look how well it is working. Everyone is just amazed at how great the Raiders are and how great those ass kissers must be. Man, where would the Raiders be without the ass kissers?
JONES
I hate to put myself out on a limb but I'd venture to say that 100% of ALL fans enjoy their "fandom" immensely more when their team is winning. It is only natural.
I know, I know ... this isn't some ground-breaking revelation but it is pertinent when discussing the "real world" vs. "Fantasyland".
You see, in the real world consumers of Raider football have been naturally unsatisfied with the product on the field the past 7 years. There is obviously less joy in a 2 win, 4 win, or 5 win season than a season filled with legitimate playoff and SB dreams.
Losing a game or having a losing season by itself is not the sole reason for some of the dissatisfaction. The dissatisfaction (and frustration) is that the organization is conducting business like a local mom & pop shop. There is no sense that there is a vision, plan, or being on the right track.
As far as the proverbial "doom and gloom" tag bandied about ... my answer to that is:
(1) I love sharing my opinion about positive news (ie. excellent performances, exciting acquisitions, thrilling victories, etc.).
(2) When the Raiders get their act together and become a playoff caliber team, my opinions will reflect these changes.
(3) The majority of decisions off the field and performance on the field the past 7 years has been pathetic. 29-83 speaks for itself. A 25% winning percentage over the course of 112 games is pitiful. It is what it is ... and I'm not happy about it.
I will gladly adjust my opinion when positive developmennts take place. And yes, I realize that my opinion isn't going to affect change.
"You see, in the real world consumers of Raider football have been naturally unsatisfied with the product on the field the past 7 years. There is obviously less joy in a 2 win, 4 win, or 5 win season than a season filled with legitimate playoff and SB dreams."
on this we can agree. i feel the same way. i just CHOOSE to express mine differently than you. you can choose to be doom and gloom about it if you like, thats your choice, i'll have my opinion of it, thats my right.
"I will gladly adjust my opinion when positive developmennts take place. And yes, I realize that my opinion isn't going to affect change."
well then, since all you have posted for quite some time is negative, this must mean you see ZERO positive things with this Raider team. is this correct? for i see many positive things amungst quite a few negative things. i see both sides. do you? i just haven't heard you express any of the positive things you say you would express if you saw them. must mean they don't exsist in your eyes.
i would love to hear some of the positive things you see, if there are any. can't all be turd sandwiches can it?
frkyraider
Frky -
You’re wrong! You do have a vote, and you’re casting it right now. You’re for apathy and enabling.
What I’m talking about is voicing an opinion for changing a losing culture. Squeaky wheel gets the grease. And I disagree that we can't do anything about it. Attendance speaks volumes. Now, if the NFL reworks its revenue sharing, that would turn up the volume.
Of course, with Al Davis, there’s always a concern that the more the fans and the media speak out, the more he’ll tighten his grip as a way of saying F-U to all of us.
Al Davis is under some delusion that he is the ONLY one that can fix the Raiders, and he's proven he is willing to sabotage his team in order to prove that.
"You’re wrong! You do have a vote, and you’re casting it right now. You’re for apathy and enabling."
no NYR your wrong.think about it this way, if it's a landslide win for the way your voting what will happen? thats right nothing. your "vote" don't count!! face the fact dude. if it did things would have already changed. they haven't dispite your continued "vote" against Al. Al owns it, you don't. his vote is the only vote that matters.
go ahead and stay away, when the winning starts those seats will fill up. period end of story. and when the winning does start my bet is you'll be jumping back on the 'ol bandwagon. it's just your nature. the sooner you realize this the more you'll enjoy the ride.
frkyraider
NYR,
i re-read your last post and i have a couple of things to add:
" Squeaky wheel gets the grease."
well you've been squeakin and squeakin and squeakin, have ya gotten any grease? sometimes the wheel squeaks and squeaks and squeaks till it falls right off the bandwagon.
"Al Davis is under some delusion that he is the ONLY one that can fix the Raiders"
uh....sorry to break this news to ya dude, but he is the one that owns it and makes all of the final decisions. without him making a decision to go in the direction you desire it aint gonna happen. how delusional of him to think that. who is it that you believe can make that decision and fix this team? talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
frkyraider
Imagine that, when the Raiders change their ways and start winning again, the fans will be happier and more excited about investing in the product.
What a strange and utterly alien concept! Thank you for bringing it to light.
Frky doesn't think the Raiders should hire a new GM, or that Al Davis should get executive football help.
Frky doesn't think the Raiders head coaching selection process has been a farce.
Frky doesn't think the draft and the roster have been serially mismanaged.
Frky doesn't think our scouting department needs an overhaul.
Frky doesn't think the Raiders should treat the fans better.
Frky doesn't thin the Raiders have been that bad lately.
This is the only explanation for what I am hearing here.
Otherwise, he wouldn't be so opposed to the tangible change I am recommending.
Frky seems to lack a common understanding of business. The NFL is an entertainment medium FOR THE FANS. Al has been losing money left and right. He WILL get a clue. He has before and he will again. His problem is that his ego gets in the way of making the right decision at the right time. So yes, Al may not give a shit all of the time, but he will have little choice in the years to come.
Why did the Raiders call me a few weeks ago and ask me my thoughts and if I would consider buying tickets in 2010?
Wait until Mr. Davis hears about that, he'll put an immediate stop to it, right?
Clearly, there's a rogue element in the organization that is worried about ticket sales and fan disillusion.
This rogue element must be stopped. The Raiders are immune to supply and demand, don't they know that?
If the Raiders suddenly announced tangible change, with a fresh new plan, competent football executive hires and an exciting coaching staff, ticket sales would soar before a single ball was snapped, and before any games were won.
What does that tell you?
Give the fans hope, and they will come. It's not the losing that has emptied the Coliseum, it's the loss of hope.
RT, i was mistaken again, for i thought that you could read and comprehend the words you were reading.
thats a whole bunch of strawmen there RT, your really becoming their leader, now you can march them right down your little yellow brick road to see the great and powerful OZ and maybe he can convince Al that YOU should be running the team. couldn't do any worse hey? not from your armchair anyway. your track record should speak for itself!!! you are one great armchair GM!!! as long as your mistakes are forgotten and your prognosications touted by...well....you!!
two can play the strawman game my freind, and if thats the way you would like this to go...allright then. i'd rather do this without strawmen but if thats your choice then so be it.
"Frky doesn't think the Raiders should hire a new GM, or that Al Davis should get executive football help"
my many posts in here say otherwise, but that may be a comprehending problem of yours. my only guess. i could go down the line and dispute the things that you are TELLING me that I think. but i'm not sure you could comprehend what i write. so maybe i'll go the same direction as you.
Take thinks the Raiders suck and will forever more.
Take thinks that what he says make a big difference in how the Raiders are run.
Take thinks the more times he says this crap about me the more true it makes it.
childish isn't this?
face it, you just don't like me calling you to the carpet for the bandwagon fan that you are. you call me out on everything from here to the sun but you don't like it to happen to you. dispite how many times i've said it about you and the other members of the "turd sandwich crew" i haven't heard one, i repeat not one of them say that they are firmly seated on the bandwagon next to me. you haven't, and neither have they. don't bother to now just because i've called you out on that too. nobody has said that they are for the pure and simple reason that they are NOT!! your off of the bandwagon and so are the rest of your crew. i understand that it hurts your feelings for someone to openly say these things, but the truth hurts sometimes. didn't seem to bother you calling me out for being and enabler amoung several other things you said about me true or not, didn't seem to matter either. fair is fair. do unto others as you wish them to do unto you. your getting what you deserve and the more you keep spreading untruths about me the more you'll get spread about you. thats not a threat, it's a promise. treat me fairly and thats the way i'll treat you. if you don't you'll get the same.
your opinion of me means about as much to me as mine does about you to you. not much if at all. but your entitled to your opinion of me just as i am entitled to mine of you.
but please stop saying that i think this or that when you KNOW the opposite is true. it only starts shit, i'd rather do this honestly instead of having to resort to lies and strawmen about you the way your doing to me. i thought you were better than this. my mistake.....again, i guess.
frkyraider
That was one long straw man, amigo.
Where do you disagree with the substance of my recent takes?
I hear lots of screaming and shouting, but very little disagreement with what I'm actually saying.
Which is weird.
Frky -
“without (Davis) making a decision to go in the direction you desire it aint gonna happen. how delusional of him to think that.”
No Davis’ delusion stems from him making the same mistakes over and over, thinking the results are going to be different. A delusion you apparently share.
If you failed at your job for seven years in a row and lost money for your employer, would your employer pat you on the back and say, “it’s ok frky, try the same thing next year.”
Who lives in a world where results don’t matter? Al Davis and frky.
“who is it that you believe can make that decision and fix this team? talk about the pot calling the kettle black.”
Huh? You want me to hire a GM?
"Why did the Raiders call me a few weeks ago and ask me my thoughts and if I would consider buying tickets in 2010?"
you keep bringing this up, as if the sales chick got off the phone with you and marched right into Al's office to proclaim that Raider Take has rufused to buy tickets agian because he thinks your priorities are in the wrong place!!! to which Al should say, "oh no, RT doesn't like the way i'm doing things. i had better change my ways!!!"
get real he would say, "F that guy, who the F is he? what the F does he know about football? if he knows so much how come he aint in the football bussiness? he don't want tickets to my games? F him, there will be 50,000 guys just waiting to replace that quitter when i start winning next year!!"
now you know the second one is more likely than the first, don't you?
frkyraider
It's coming down to a pissing contest = who's the better fan. Just calling someone a Bandwagoner, doesn't make them a bandwagoner. Anyone who uses the bandwagon fiction, has nothing else to stand on.
Freak wants to prove he is a better fan than everyone else = He will support and go along with a losing formula, also because he owns choo choo twains and xmas balls.
He is obviously absurd and trying to convince him of anything is like trying to catch a fish with a rock. His mental capability can't comprehend that the formula is a PROVEN failure. I get the feeling that freak is used to failing, it's what he feels comfortable with, thus, it's what he embraces.
JONES
I think Jones hit the nail right on the head, when he just described FrkyRaider. I could not have said it better myself.
Sarasota Raider
NYR,
"No Davis’ delusion stems from him making the same mistakes over and over, thinking the results are going to be different. A delusion you apparently share."
oops, now you've veared off in another direction, typical, when your proven wrong, quickly change the subject.
it wasn't about the decisions he makes it was and i quote, "Al Davis is under some delusion that he is the ONLY one that can fix the Raiders" if he is the one that makes the decisions then who the F else can fix them, i all comes back to him eventually. he IS the only one that can start the big changes we all, oops i forgot i apparently don't want it, that you all want!!
the difference between me failing at my job for 7 years and getting fired is that if it was my company then i wouldn't fire me. it would be up to me to fix it or die tryin. big difference between being the owner and being an employee.
and god no i don't want YOU to pick the GM, just what experience do you have in football management? my question was, just who is it that you think can fix it besides Al if all the decisions always come right back to Al? get it this time. m a y b e y o u s h o u l d r e a d s l o w e r!!!
frkyraider
"I think Jones hit the nail right on the head, when he just described FrkyRaider. I could not have said it better myself."
lmao, you did say it yourself.
FrkyRaider,
I don't think anyone here wants to forget the previous 3 championships.
However, the point is, I think, trying to win a fourth.
That is, I believe, what Raidertake is saying.
The once proud Raiders now keep company with the lowly Lions.
And that fourth championship seems as far away as the Sun.
just so ya know, all this defending of myself from the lies and propaganda being spread in here about me has wore me out. i'm takin a break. but don't worry i'll be back to correct you about what you'll be saying what I think and how I feel. even dispite all of my many posts to the contrary in here, i'll read them all and address those i think need addressing. except of coarse for jones's, i'm ignoring that troll.
frkyraider
Bama7
The Cable thing is still undecided because no one of value wants to come here to coach yet Al is still trying to make a splash (hire). He can't cut Cable loose because then all eyes will be on the fact that no one wants to come here. So he keeps Cable undecided while they get turned downed in private. That's what's going on. If they can't land anyone they'll announce Cables is the guy as if they were just thoroughly evaluating his performance all that time.
How bad does it suck that no good coach wants the opportunity at an NFL HC job?
You could write a book on ruining a solid brand on what we've done in the last twenty years.
Our only success came when a strong-willed man came here and forced change with an offense that was pretty damn efficient. Al ran Gruden off becuase Al's ego is colossal.
RT- I think that most that write here now know that the problem with our team is our owner. That wasn't the case a year or two ago. It was split around here, perhaps more in Al's favor. I personally think Al has f'd us up since the nineties. A long time. We have run a stinky defense for a long time now. It sucked in the nineties too. The scheme makes everyone look bad. The coaches are starting to defy the old man and try to modernize here and there, but it's a mixed bag of guessing coupled with the old crap. Offensively we've quit the Lamonica 7 yard drop and moved to drawing things up in the dirt. We're still lost top to bottom, so venting about the players... even Jmarcus is useless. IF Sanchez had come here everyone would be talking about how awful he is. Instead he is on a team with an innovative defense and a well-run coaching staff and he is learning and doing okay. The only QBs that can do well here are guys that have failed at every other opportunity so no one expects anything from them. They have nothing to lose. No "star" can carry the weight of QB in Oakland with all of the rotteness we hacve. Until we have a modern-day, professionally run franchise we will suck.
I actually think that perhaps Leach might work under the current conditions because at least Al would leave him alone while he built another gruden type thing.
Then if we had a ball control, high pwered offense it would hide, to a certain degree, Al's stinky defensive scheme.
Ah, I ask Frky where he actually disagrees with the substance of my recent takes, and he exits stage left without a reply.
I think I've figured out the psychology of what's going on around here.
Everyone is equally frustrated with the state of the Raiders and no one really disagrees with the substance of the situation and where change is needed.
However, it simply comes down to where that frustration is being directed.
For most of us, it's directed at the Raiders.
For some, however, it's directed at a blog, due to some sort of weird psychological transference.
Bama, the difference between knowing things and admitting things pretty much sums up the growing rift on this blog.
"well then, since all you have posted for quite some time is negative, this must mean you see ZERO positive things with this Raider team. is this correct?"
Nope. Not correct. I have posted hundreds of positive posts on various aspects related to the Raiders. For example, I loved the Seymour acquisition. I have applauded the development of some of our core, younger players (Miller, Murphy, Shaunnesey, T.Scott, Bush, Branch), I applauded the spark Ski gave us.
Don't believe me Fryk? I have been blogging for 4+ years and have over 200+ posts. If there has been a higher negative to positive ratio lately it is because that is how I have viewed the current conditions and lack of hope being generated in Alameda. When your team is setting records for ineptitude, what the hell do you expect? Oh, that's right, how dare me offer critical analysis based on performance in a performance based world. My bad.
"dispite how many times i've said it about you and the other members of the "turd sandwich crew" i haven't heard one, i repeat not one of them say that they are firmly seated on the bandwagon next to me. you haven't, and neither have they."
The ultimate Strawman fallacy. Ridiculous. Once again, Frykraider wants to define what a fan is, how a fan supports his team, etc. Naueseating.
For starters, the term "bandwagon" really means someone who recently became a fan of a team (jumping on the wagon)or a fan who no longer associates/follows/supports the team he had been following. Have any of the regular posters here stopped following the team? Nope.
Newsflash Fryk:
I don't need to affirm to you that I'm seated on any "wagon" next to you because I will NEVER be a wagon fan. I have been a loyal, supportive Raider fan for 40 continuous years and counting.
I think Bama7 is right about Al Davis. In my opinion, in the year 2010, the Raiders have the absolute worst owner in the NFL right now. I would take any other owner in the league right now over Davis. And that includes chumps like Ford, Snyder, and The Glazer Family. Every last owner in the NFL in the year 2010 are doing a better job than Al Davis, at least in my opinion. This team is not going anywhere until we are under new ownership. So enjoy the double digit losing seasons folks and the embarrassment of the circus that is in Oakland. As long as the heart beats in Al's body, that is what we have to look forward to.
Sarasota Raider
oh, sorry Rt let me address that before i go on break since you sooo quickly and always respond to my questions.
what do i disagree with:
attitude for 1. yours is piss poor along with the rest of the "turd sandwich crew"
jusping off the bandwagon for #2. yeah we've lost some seasons to the down times. of epic proportions even. just what was your critiria for when to quit? 5 years 6? or was it the first one? whatever your answer you still quit, signed out, jumped off. thats what i disagree with!!
as far as the changes in the organization i beleive that i have expressed my desire to hire a GM ad nausium. time and again i say it but for some reason you just don't believe it. i agree with many of your opinions about how to go about changing the culture. where we differ is how we represent it. i do in a positive way with out trying to disrespect and slam my favorite team in every sentence and post. you go about it with insults and slams and pithy coments in every sentence and every post. anyone that disagrees get the same treatment. we're different that way.
is there anything else before i go on break for a day or two? maybe you could go back and answer some of my questions that i asked you now. i doubt it but hey....
frkyraider
In frky’s world, having solid management with a plan is inconsequential.
At the end of the day, it's no accident that the Jets are playing in the AFC Championship Game, and it's certainly no accident that the Colts are there.
The Jets placed a high priority on drafting and signing FA linemen. They also hired a top HC prospect in Rex Ryan, a coach that has had tremendous success in the NFL as a DC.
So with a nucleus of sound management, coaching, and smart decisions, the Jets look like a perennial playoff contender while fielding rookie starters at QB and RB.
The Raiders have done almost exactly the opposite, and have the opposite results to show for it.
But all is well.
"Ah, I ask Frky where he actually disagrees with the substance of my recent takes, and he exits stage left without a reply."
He will say he agrees with the substance of your takes while at the same time seem quite content or patient with the status quo of losing 11+ games every year.
Comfortably numb to losing or blissfully delusional. Are they serving tranquilizers on the Fryk Wagon?
I ask where Frky disagrees with the substance of my takes, and the first thing he cites is my "attitude."
That exchange says it all.
Fryk:
When you return from your break, please answer this question:
Why do you keep saying RT is "jumping off the bandwagon"? It makes absolutely no sense.
If you are trying to imply that he is no longer an avid, dedicated, loyal, supportive fan then you need to get your head examined. Very weak Fryk.
If you are trying to imply that he isn't jumping up and down waving his pom-poms in support of the decisions made by Raiders management, then you are on the money.
HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE difference. This difference doesn't seem to register with your way of thinking.
at what time did i say i was content with the 11 loss seasons? produce it or shut it. propaganda and lies CJ, you should be ashamed. uyour better than that too.
"He will say he agrees with the substance of your takes while at the same time seem quite content or patient with the status quo of losing 11+ games every year."
time and again i say i want the same change in the front office you do. but i refuse to rip my team like they waren't my favorite. i just voice my opinion unlike you. you would like to tell everyone lies about me like then one you just did. keep up the propaganda and the rest of your turd sandwich crew will believe, liar!!
frkyraider
funny how you waited till i said i was takin a break before you attacked me again.
ok, i'm goin now, let the lies fly
This is a blog forum. Why should anyone hold back on their unfiltered opinions to "keep a positive attitude". Hilarious!
he can't even tell me he IS on the bandwagon with the Raiders. can he? hell no, he disagrees with everything in silver and black right now. you name it he dislikes it. same with you. go ahead tell me your on the bandwagon and i'll tell you the same shit you tell me, that your content with 11 plus loss seasons and happy with the status quo. spin on spinmaster!! weave your web of lies!!! later.
frkyraider/driver of the bandwagon
NyRaider,
Rex Ryan could never be considered for HC of Raiders because he was a DC.
And doesn't that really tell us all we need to know about why the Raiders are such a mess.
I'm sure you will be back from one of your "breaks" in a jiffy Fryk.
No, I didn't put words in your mouth. I always cut & paste all of your quotes when I'm responding directly to something.
It was my opinion that anyone who isn't disgusted, frustrated, disappointed, dismayed, outraged by 7 consecutive 11+ loss seasons would seem to be someone who is either content with losing or extremely patient.
Fryk:
You seem very fixated on this magical term of "bandwagon". Why would someone need to "get on the wagon" if this same person has continually supported and followed the team? No need to get "on" or "off" any wagon.
Got to admit...freak lives up to his name.....and then some.
JONES
Bama7
Was that our boy Frampton that made th bid special teams play on Bush?
Eric "Peter" Frampton?
Funny, didn't the Raiders get called on a similar play this year in which the officials said they didn't give the receiver a chance to field the ball before the hit?
Not to fuel the bad officiating fire, but that call against the Raiders was a head scratcher for sure.
FYI, Raiders 2009 avg home attendance was 44,284. That ranks 32nd - worst in the league. At #1, the Cowboys avg home attendance more than doubles the Raiders.
The Redskins averaged almost 85,000 per game.
The Rams, who had a horrible season, avg over 10,000 more than the Raiders.
Obviously attendance doesn’t paint the entire picture; however, based on dollars and cents, performance trends and numerous peculiarities, you have to question the competence of Al Davis to move forward, at age 80, and operate this franchise by himself.
At what point will the league have a say? Certainly, they have a stake.
And don't forget that Al Davis will be 81 when next season gets underway. God, I can't believe we have an 81 year old coot running this franchise straight into the ground.
Sarasota Raider
>>>
It was my opinion that anyone who isn't disgusted, frustrated, disappointed, dismayed, outraged by 7 consecutive 11+ loss seasons would seem to be someone who is either content with losing or extremely patient.
>>>>
Occasionally the NFL requires patience.
Gosh... the NO Saints are the definition of the word "mediocrity" since, well forever.
Now they get to get crushed in the SB by Indy.
How long did Arizona stink before last season?
You get a hot QB and any team is in the mix.
I'm hoping for Gannonkowski next season!
Oh wait... my bad.
What was I thinking?
>>>
Why would someone need to "get on the wagon" if this same person has continually supported and followed the team?
>>>
This much I agree with.
Raider fans almost seem suicidal because of the losses.
No frigging way anyone here at this point is "bandwagon."
Why they REMAIN a Raider fan is a different story.
Correct Gary. There are 'fashion fans,' who are more interested in the Al Davis iconography and legend; and then there are Raider fans who care about the team first and foremost.
>>>
Give the fans hope, and they will come. It's not the losing that has emptied the Coliseum, it's the loss of hope.
>>>
You nailed this one RT.
And I don't think he will gain it back with Russell and H-B front and center of the offense next year either... something I think we can agree with.
But can't you find SOME excitement if Gannonkowski is our QB from game one on, and the offense revolves around him, Murphy, Schilens, Miller, and Bush?
Or do you look at that as a lost cause?
Seriously... how down in the dumps ARE you?
Those look like good young players to me.
Do I watch a different NFL than you do?
Did you see pro-bowlers up and down the line on offense in todays games or something?
I didn't.
Gary, you surprise me sometimes. In a good way.
I am excited by those players, but in my estimation we are not close to becoming a serious contender. Frosting is nice, but we still need a cake.
I'm not down in the dumps, I'm just processing the information provided by the Raiders.
My brain just can't compute this equation: no change = change.
Al Davis needs help, you said it, I said it, Madden said it, but he's still not getting it.
Consequently, the Raiders remain a dis-organization.
Yet under these circumstances, you expect a serious turnaround? Really?
One would think that 99% of the GM's evaluation of Tom Cable would have taken place during the season.
A GM is at every game, speaks with his HC regularly, attends numerous practices, discusses personnel needs, team deficiencies, etc.
No, I'm inclined to agree with Bama. Davis has been searching for a replacement HC that doesn't exist. He has run out of options, and Cable is the last man standing.
So far this off-season, Herrera has announced the Raiders have received numerous calls for coaching jobs (i.e., dropped the cone of silence in a lame attempt to make the Raiders sound like a desirable place to work), and he has sent mixed signals regarding Tom Cable (at Cable’s expense).
While the motivations behind both are highly suspect, the simple fact that Herrera is still the face of the Raiders from a media perspective tells us the Raiders have no clue.
If the Raiders had any PR savvy, they would stop fighting with the media (by first pulling Herrera off that duty) and use the media to embrace and ingratiate their fans.
Seems like everything the Raiders do and say is counterproductive.
Ignoring the fans is no way to get bodies back in the stadium. Sure, fans will come back if they win. That sounds simple enough.
The information here is great. I will invite my friends here.
Thanks
What kind of bothers me are the non-statement statements.
"Since Herrera would never lie, our head coaching situation remains up in the air."
All Herrera said was that there was never a statement made, so what's to be "up in the air?"
Face it RT, you have now completely turned yourself into the a media voice for repeating rumors and insisting that statements that have never been made are the truth.
After 7 loosing seasons there's no question that the Raiders (Al Davis) have made some poor choices - or worse, no choices at all when choices needed to be made. But in terms of what is going on behind closed doors at Raiders HQ, nobody knows. The media has long since decided that "if we don't know what's going on, we'll just make crap up."
Take, I've been saying that Tom Cable isn't going anywhere since the end of the season. If I'd have listened to the media, I'd still be waiting for him to be fired. How did I know he was staying? Simple. I ignore the press, and watch what the team is actually doing.
You used to criticize the media, RT, and now you seem to support it. I can't remember the last "News You Can't Use" article. It's as though you believe that being loud, even if it's uninformed nonsense, might break a hole in the 7 year losing streak.
The Raiders will be secretive as long as Davis is in charge. You can always criticize him for not making the right decisions based on the losing streak. But you will never know what, exactly, those decisions were.
And you can't point to a time during Al Davis' association with the Raiders that this hasn't been true. All we know for certain is that we were winning before, but we're not winning now.
While I want the team to turn it around as much as anyone, part of the attraction to me has always been the mystery. And, frankly, I really expect Al to find his way back to the Super Bowl before he's done.
For this, I make no apology.
One of the reasons that I've supported Davis to the extent that I have is that there would be no Oakland Raiders (or Los Angeles Raiders) without Al Davis. He is as much a part of them as ANY individual could ever be identified with a single team.
That said, if Al Davis manages another Super Bowl appearance on or before 2012, he will have done something that will quite probably never be equalled, and certainly never surpassed. He will have engineered a Super Bowl appearance in every decade of his service.
1963-1972 = 1 Super Bowl
1973-1982 = 2 Super Bowls
1983-1992 = 1 Super Bowl
1993-2002 = 1 Super Bowl
2003-2012 = ?
Name another man (owner) who has ever done it. Name another man who ever will do it. In fact, name another man who will ever come close.
I think Al will retire on, or near, 2013.
The king said:
"After 7 loosing seasons"
- Why does the "crew" always spell LOSING as loosing?
"All Herrera said was that there was never a statement made, so what's to be "up in the air?".
- Herrera also said "evaluation process still isn't complete" so I think that means they are still evaluating Cable's performance, right?
"How did I know he was staying? Simple. I ignore the press, and watch what the team is actually doing."
- Herrera said that the evaluation process isn't finished, that means that Cable still might be going somewhere other than HC. I've seen you use press clippings to support your argument, king. So don't make out like you ignore the press, you also comment on their stories , so you don't ingnore the press.
"All we know for certain is that we were winning before, but we're not winning now."
- When were we winning, king? Many have put the pieces together why we were winning before, 70-80's/ early 2000/ and it ISN'T THE SAME FORMULA AS TODAY. Stop with the propaganda that it is.
"part of the attraction to me has always been the mystery."
- Here comes the meloncholy king.....well, the mystery is GONE, It is very obvious to see what is going on and it is RIDICULOUS. If you find ridiculous attractive, well...that says it all.
JONES
This is what Herrera said the other night: "We've consistently stated that we're going through an evaluation process to determine the direction that the organization needs to go. The process is ongoing, and it has not reached a conclusion."
So either you are right and Herrera is lying instead of simply stating that "Cable is being retained for 2010" (six simple words).
Or you are wrong, and Cable's fate is still up in the air.
Which is it?
The mysteries of Al!! Soooo attractive! The iconography! The shield of death protecting those feeble folk who dare criticize the almighty legend, Al Davis. ROTF Good grief. I'll settle for structure, organization and winning.
FYI, I think Al has been looking for other candidates; these rumors don't come out of nowhere - no, there is no media conspiracy against Al.
But what experienced coach or GM is going to come here if Al won't put in writing that he's giving up a certain level of authority? Cable stays IMO. But not because Al wholly endorses him. Since Al knew nothing about Cable when he hired him (see Youtube), Al must know by now that Cable has never won at any level, both college and the NFL.
Al Davis in fact will take more control away from Cable, not less. Sounds like a lame-duck situation to me.
Can you guys read what you write. Herrera said that the "evaluation" process is continuing to determine the direction the team needs to go.
What the hell in that statement says that "we are considering whether or not to retain Cable."
It certainly appears to me that an evaluation process is taking place because they've hired two new coaches. It certainly appears to me that Cable is a part of that "direction" because he has close connections to both of the coaches who were hired.
Oooooo. Logic is SO hard. It hurts sometimes.
>>>
Yet under these circumstances, you expect a serious turnaround? Really?
>>>>>
Yes I do! Why? Well for one thing Al finally seems to have found some patience in a HC... that is one of the major reasons we have set losing record marks you keep dwelling on... prolly the MAJOR reason.
Name a team with 5 HC's in 7 years that isn't a clusterF---?
This will be Cables 3rd season as HC, and it looks like he is bringing in help with play calling and an OC... two of his biggest weaknesses.
Secondly, as I keep pointing out to you, Al actually did a pretty outstanding job in drafting outside of the first round... and with the NFL rewarding crappy teams, I hope he knocks one out of the park in April with the following:
Round 1: Blue chip LT we can plug in right away to shore up the HORRIBLE o-line... if Henderson beats him out play him at RT, move Green to guard. If blue-chip beats out Henderson, flip him to RT. If Gallery is healthy all year we will go from the worst O-line in football to pretty formidable.
Round 2: Best available DT to replace Warren.
Round 3: Best available MLB to replace Morrison (whom I hope is cut loose)
Round 3: QB for depth to take Frye's place
Round 4 KR/PR specialist.
Thirdly, and possibly even a bigger wildcard is Gannonkowski! Was the Steeler game and his inspiring play a fluke? Possibly, however, if you pay close attention to NFL QB's the "light goes on" fairly regularly in the fourth year. Take a look at Drew Brees before and after his fourth year, fer instance.
Tom Brady was mostly just a QB throwing screen passes until his fourth year, and didn't fully take the team on his wings until his fourth year (his 2nd SB winning year). Rothy didn't have a great year until his 4th.
I am not suggesting that Grad is even in the same league as these three, just providing evidence that what we saw might not have been a FLUKE!
Conclusion: The NFL is mostly two things... coaching and QB's... and despite Al's obvious previous failings, he might have actually stumbled into something that works here... and all done without the GM he so desperately needs, but lacks the trust to bring in.
Thats why I think this can work!
Now if he fires Cable, makes the new coach play Russell, and he drafts the fastest player at the Combine at 8... all bets are off.
I will join you in the gloom and doom!
Logic would suggest that if you are sick of rampant media speculation, you would utter a few syllables confirming that Cable is staying put for 2010 if, indeed, that has been decided.
Why should I rail on the media speculation when the team openly courts and obviously enjoys the media game?
gary:
Thanks for being, consistently, a voice of reason (and exercising the voice of a fan).
Disagree on a couple of points. I think we should go free agency for O-line help, selecting players best suited for zone blocking or power blocking (should they decide to change back). We also did appear to find our return man (Miller Lite) although he never was able to come back from injury after going down in the pre season.
I'd like to see Morrison moved to WILL - his natural position.
100, natch.
---Jeff
Take, another thing I don't understand is why you seem to think that Al Davis is responsible for an irresponsible press.
If the press doesn't know anything, what's wrong with them saying "we don't know." If Al wants the world to know something, he's capable of pulling out the overhead and holding a press conference. No? But he's never revealed the internal discussions in his entire history. You seem to think seven losing seasons requires him to state every intention specifically. For what? To be mis characterized by ESPN?
I thought I was the voice of reason? Everything I've said has basically come true. How come Gary gets the title? Not fair.
ESPN's predictions about the 'going-ons' of the Raiders have been more truthful than Herrera over the years. The fact is that the press reports leaks that come from within the Raider organization. Since there is no organization over there, leaks are obviously going to happen.
The fact is this Blanda: every team in the NFL handled conjecture regarding their head coach properly EXCEPT for the Raiders. Al Davis is responsible for his image, not the press.
King said:
"Can you guys read what you write. Herrera said that the "evaluation" process is continuing to determine the direction the team needs to go."
- Yes, isn't the HC a big part of the direction? When evaluating a team for direction, wouldn't the HC be a big part of that direction? Seems to me, on any other pro sports franchise, if they said they were evaluating a direction, the HC would be front and center, NO?
JONES
Gary and Blanda are in the vast minority when it comes to Raider fans' sense of what it going on with the Raiders.
The voice of reason??? ROTF. Riiiiight.
Blanda says:
"You seem to think seven losing seasons requires him to state every intention specifically."
I love the strawman here. Blanda loves this technique. Who said the Raiders need to state "every intention specifically?" Good grief.
Gary says,
"...and despite Al's obvious previous failings, he might have actually stumbled into something that works here."
--------
Do you believe in magic? All hail Al!!!
The "crew" obviously believe in magic. LOL, too funny onand. They come up with their magic scenarios every year at about this time. It's insane, but it keeps the comments coming.
JONES
BlackBagonia, how dare you state something positive about your favorite team. Didn't you know that the team is run by a senile old coot who's never succeeded at anything, eats babies, lies to the ministry, and constantly needs to be told he walks on water? He's done nothing but destroy the team ever since he's been here!
And you enjoy this? Well... well...
Welcome.
Blanda says:
"Didn't you know that the team is run by a senile old coot who's never succeeded at anything, eats babies, lies to the ministry, and constantly needs to be told he walks on water?"
------
Already on your second strawman for the day, eh Blanda? I don't remember anyone here saying that Al has "never succeeded at anything," do you? That's kind of an irrelevant point anyway. We're in the year 2010 as far as I know.
From the media:
"...conjecture over Cable's job status has been going on for months. If Cable's job was safe, it would be a simple matter to get that message out. For example, Davis could tell reporters, "Cable's job is safe."
See how easy?
...this business about internal review is a head-scratcher. Making a call on a head coach isn't that difficult. Within 16 days of the end of the regular season, six teams (Washington, Chicago, Seattle, Dallas, San Diego and Buffalo) hired new coaches or decided to retain their old ones. Davis is now beginning his fourth week of deliberation on a decision almost devoid of gray area."
___________
Didn't we have these same conversations two years ago about Kiffin, in which many here said all was fine, and why should the Raiders feel they need to make a statement regarding the status of a coach under contract?
Doesn't history teach us anything?
At this point, Randy "glass jaw" Hanson looks more welcome in Alameda than Tom Cable. But why should the Raiders care if their "HC" is getting bounced around in the media like a rag doll?
"At this point, Randy "glass jaw" Hanson looks more welcome in Alameda than Tom Cable. But why should the Raiders care if their "HC" is getting bounced around in the media like a rag doll?"
Really? The two coaches hired by the Raiders were obviously Randy's choices then? And it's Randy who's being sent to the Senior Bowl to scout players and potential staff? What an evil genius Al must be. Using Cable as the front man for the organization, letting him pick the coahes and the players - and then giving the job of HC to someone else. Truly evil.
Onandonandon:
I don't think "strawman" means what you think it means. Sarcasm/strawman - not the same thing. But they do begin with the same letter - I'll give you that.
Al picks the coaches, not Cable. That's not conjecture; that's a fact. Moreover, Waufle coached on the Raiders long before Cable was here, and Al likely has it in his mind that since Waulfle coached a successful team in 2002 (we still had a porous D if you ask me), he's our answer. Typical Al. Bring in the retreads and repeat old successes. Not a real formula for winning if you ask me.
Oh, I got your sarcasm Blanda; but, within your sarcastic comments, you planted a strawman. You have a tendency to overstate an opposing viewpoint in order to prop up your argument. I think you can do better.
Frky had asked me before who I would hire as GM.
Not sure I can answer that question so simply. However, if I'm being put in charge, I would arrange for Al Davis to have a more comfortable chair in the owner's box and immediately start interviewing GM candidates. Tom Cable would be lucky to retain a job as line coach, but this would be left up to the new GM and HC.
Conversely, under the present management, I can only hope that Tom Cable is retained as HC. I just don't see how starting over with a retread, or some inexperienced assistant coach who is off every other team's radar, is going to improve this team (history tells us this much).
My goal next season under Tom Cable is 8 wins, which seems pretty ambitiuos based on the last seven seasons.
Blanda -
Why don't you address the first part of my post?
Why is Cable being allowed to swing by a noose in the media, ala Lane Kiffin?
Could the reason be that Al Davis hates the media and could care less about the fans, nor the public peception of his coaches.
Honestly, the Raiders seem to go out of their way to belittle their coaches.
Okay, enough of this. Let's talk Saints football. My big beef is that Brees, a QB I badly wanted Al to sign when he was a free agent, should have won th MVP award. Brees was really the best QB in football this season and deserved the MVP. His QB rating was just about 10 points higher than Manning's, he had a higher completion percentage, he threw for less interceptions; and finally, he threw for more TD's. What was the NFL thinking?
Go Saints! At least I have something to root for this season. There's a great story brewing here.
nyraider, why is it Davis who's letting Cable twist in the wind. Davis never blew any wind to swing him. No rep for the Raiders anywhere, at any time, suggested that Tom Cable wouldn't be back for the remainder of his contract. When Cable was asked himself, he said he expected to be back. The Raiders have not created a controversy here, the media has - and now they want the Raiders to give it justification.
Just because Kiffin was fired at mid-season, that doesn't mean that's always the way Davis handles it. Just because Davis failed to get one first round draft pick signed before camp, that doesn't mean it happens every season.
Jones backed up his HC because he had said DURING the season that Phillips might not be back. The same thing is true in Cleveland. Davis hasn't made ANY comments regarding Cable since he was hired. He has nothing to clarify or retract.
Also, I don't think Cable is on pins and needles. He's acting like he's been told he's staying. Unless he's only going to the Senior Bowl to look for a new job for himself. But then, why bother to drag the Raiders' business along with him to slow him down?
The media has assured us that Al Davis can't stand Tom Cable because 1. He beat up Randy Hansen (proven untrue) 2. He beat up an ex-wife (shown to be a big assed stretch - while I disapprove of striking women, Cable said he slapped [open handed] his ex-wife when he came home and found her in bed with another man - and at the time it occurred, if he had actually killed her, it would have been viewed as a reasonable justifcation to reduce a murder sentence to manslaughter), 3. he "roughed up" an ex-girlfriend (his ex-wife put the kibosh to that lie), 4. he only won five games.
Therefore, if Al Davis has talked to Fassell, Trestman or Harbaugh, it must be with the intent of firing Cable and hiring one of them. Well, other than the fact that each of these three has worked for Davis in the past, that he's good friends with them and CONTINUALLY maintains contact with them, and that they all respect Al Davis a great deal, there is another reason.
Have you considered that free agency and the draft are coming relatively soon? Do you think Al Davis might be currious to find out from Harbaugh who, in this draft class, might be a choice for the #8 overall selection in the draft? Do you think that Al Davis might be curious to find out from Jim Fassell whether or not one or two UFL players might have been overlooked by the NFL. Do you think that Al Davis might have a curiosity as to whether there are some talent prospects in the Canadian league that others haven't noticed, and might be seeking that information from the guy (Trestman) who coached the championship team? Might this be called off season due diligence?
Naw! No such thing. Obviously he's just bumbling around, messin' with the press. That's all that's on his mind.
There you go, Take. That last paragraph is "News You Can Use."
In the balance, until further notice, the organization's operational behavior is largely flawed, if not outright incompetent.
Brilliant maneuvering does not lead you to the worst seasonal losing stretch in NFL history.
That's not to say that every move is a disaster, or that the behavior cannot be changed, or that the situation is permanent.
But for several years, Blanda, you've been trying to convince us that virtually every move the Raiders make is a smart one.
Which is impossible considering the results.
Sometimes, organizations just stink and make tons of awful decisions. Losing of this magnitude isn't bad luck. It's earned.
In time, things may change. The decision making and operational behavior may improve. We will know it when the results change.
Until then, how can I be expected to suddenly hallucinate brilliance in every move? Based on what track record?
How can one man, at the age of 80, handle the busy workload of what requires two or three people in other organizations (owner, GM and, to a large degree, scouting director)?
It doesn't compute. No wonder we can't keep up in the NFL. I'm just not sure how we're suddenly going to turn it around while lacking crucial manpower at key operational positions.
Well, Take, your response is crap.
I have had plenty of complaints regarding some of the moves, and you well know it. What I haven't done, as many here have, is label everything a disaster and put all of my eggs into the GM basket.
I have said that Al is slowing down due to age, and needs help. I just don't DEMAND that help come in the form I'm demanding it. And I, unlike others, have even presented a detailed analysis of how I believe we got here (and no, having a GM wouldn't magically change it). It appears to me that Al Davis IS getting some help if he's consulting with Harbaugh, Trestman and Fassell. That he's keeping Cable is another positive sign.
In short, what I haven't done is jump everytime the media said "rabit." I think that to a very large degree, over the last couple of years, you have.
Blanda, both the media and most of us here have out-analyzed you on the current Raider situation by a loooooong-shot. What planet are you on. Shall we pull some of your absurd quotes about the H-bey pick or how well we were going to do this season? You have nerve; I'll give ya that. Good grief!
Ummm, no.
My takes have been about 25 percent positive and 75 percent negative lately (meanwhile, yours are at least the inverse of that) which squares with the .250 average winning record of late.
My takes tend to square with the results. Imagine that.
As for "demanding" anything, that's just like FRKY saying he doesn't really disagree with me, he just doesn't like me saying it.
Who says I'm demanding something?
I'm politely asking for tangible change in the wake of persistent failure. What's wrong with that?
Blanda -
"nyraider, why is it Davis who's letting Cable twist in the wind. Davis never blew any wind to swing him."
What about the wavering statements about the coaching situation made by Herrera at the behest of Al Davis? I think it's pretty well understood that Herrera doesn’t blow his nose without Davis issuing his authorization.
Besides, how often does Al Davis ever really fire anyone straight up? He prefers to reassign, relocate, or otherwise place in purgatory, as he sees fit.
“Just because Kiffin was fired at mid-season, that doesn't mean that's always the way Davis handles it.”
You’re right. That’s the way Davis handles it when his personal vendetta outweighs his desire to win.
Imagine for a second where this team would be if Davis redirected his hatred for Kiffin and his money for players like Walker, DBH, Russell, McFadden, etc., into a new, highly professional organizational structure filled with an identifiable hierarchy working in concert to fix the problems that have serially plagued the Raiders for years and years (some here say decades).
With some of the left over money, he could have modernized his owner’s suit.
"suite"
Take, you can color what people say anyway you want, but if it doesn't square, it doesn't square. FRKY said no such thing, and neither have I.
Okay, onandonandon, what did I say about DHB? Seems to me that I disagreed with drafting him (wanted a D-lineman) but I said I understood what the Raiders wanted to do with him. I also said that I didn't think he should start in his first season, but he should get time in the slot. I also said (half way into the season) that they should get him out of the starting line-up, but I understood Cable's comments that in the deep strike offense, a flanker is a different position than split end. I've stated plainly my reasons for those things.
All of that expresses more analysis than you could even fathom. I think your analysis was something about him never being a professional quality football player to begin with, and we should just cut him (but not nearly as polite). The quality of your "analysis" is laughable.
And Take, you've simply turned into a one trick pony. It's not that I hate you saying it, I'm just tired of hearing it - "GM, GM, GM..."
You don't need to say it again. I can remember (unlike onandonandon and Jones) your statement from three posts ago. You haven't provided anything new.
Your takes have largely become simple-minded, repetitive, cheap, easy and snarky. They are not of the same quality that attracted me to this site.
nyraider, while you actually approach analysis, you ignore a lot of the truth. Fact is, Davis has been in the business for almost five decades and has a Super Bowl appearance in everyone of them but the last (but there's still time).
I'll take that record in spite of the last seven years. Imagine now turning over the franchise to JONES because he knows the "truth." Or to onandonandon because he likes the Saints - and they are winning this year.
I have a theory about Al Davis and it is this.
Since Al got into the Hall of Fame in 1992, he turned his attention to other things besides winning.
Al became more interested in making sure minorities got a fair shake to be hired as a HC(Art Shell).
Al wanted to see to it that women could rise to the highest levels in the NFL(Amy Trask).
Al drafts, signs, and holds roster spots for players,(list too long to write), who, maybe aren't good players, but he likes them and wants to help them and their families.
Al Davis has done it all in the AFL/NFL.
A 4th championship would be nice, but it's not number one on Al's agenda any longer.
Al, IMO, has decided to use the Raiders to impose some social justice/change, in the NFL.
And in doing so, winning has been thrown out the window.
This all sucks if you're a fan of course, but that's the way things seem to be.
Blanda-
"nyraider, while you actually approach analysis, you ignore a lot of the truth."
See, I don't believe I am ignoring the truth. The truth is that Davis can no longer handle all the responsibilities of 3-4 men at age 80.
Don't hold your breath on that last decade, Blanda.
Many investors will tell you, "only buy a stock when it's on its way up." Trouble is, when it's falling, you can never be certain how far it will fall before it turns around.
Blanda, you are nothing but an ACT....you are a poser. Notice he never faces the questions, he just deflects and rambles, it's another sign (like bandwagon jumper) that he has no leg to stand on. He is nothing but propaganda, hot air and really, anyone who posts to him like he is relevant, you are enabling the posing to continue.
JONES
00 ... you never really know what his motivations are...what we do know is, his motivations are not conducive to winning.
JONES
This is the kind of thing I'm talking about. PFT is now reporting that Cable might still be fired, because the Raiders have said everything coming out of the press has been irresponsible reporting. Here is Herrera's entire statement. Tell me where he says anything about firing Tom Cable.
“We’ve never made any statements that the head coach would not be back. That has been media speculation from the beginning. We’ve consistently stated that we’re going through an evaluation process to determine the direction that the organization needs to go. The process is ongoing, and it has not reached a conclusion.”
What Herrera seems to be addressing is the "direction of the organization." Now, that could involve the HC, but considering that Cable is the one going to the Senior Bowl, and Al Davis has never in his history interviewed a new HC without first firing the previous one, two new coaches have been hired who have working experience with Tom Cable, I'd say he's talking about a multitude of things (including, possibly, a GM). But Tom Cable will be the HC in 2010.
Imagine if Al turned the ship over to Blanda...LOL. You know how they say " it couldn't get any worse"....well.....the team wouldn't be allowed to play Pop Warner. Blanda would be lost and his ego wouldn't allow him to see it...hmmm, sounds familiar.
JONES
"This is the kind of thing I'm talking about. PFT is now reporting that Cable might still be fired,"
Blanda, hit the stop button, were you not just quoted for writing that you IGNORE THE PRESS? Thus your brilliance in declaring that Cable is staying? You are circling yourself, STOP, take a breath.
JONES
Seems to me that blanda clearly explained his position, didn't want dhb, but understood why the raiders drafted him (never saying it was right or wrong). Same with how they used him. Explained his position, and then his analysis of what Al/Cable was thinking in how they ended up using him.
Not sure what the question is/was, or what was deflected?
I can't follow all the drivel, so when I log on and see the last few posts, I just have to chim in :-)
-moshbucket
Cable is doing the same thing he did last year, except this year he's at least under contract. Remember all the hoop-la about he being down there and not even being under contract?
Hopefully he's taking a serious look at Mt. Cody.
-moshbucket
wow, BR....your a better man than i. every time these guys spin my words into something i didn't say i F-ing lose it. they are so bent to drive out anyone that has a positive thought about this team that they they spin everything you say into total BS. even if that means to make up blatant lies about things you've said, posts you've written and things you think. very common in here lately.
Blanda...your response couldn't have been more in line with what i wanted to say, you just say it better than i can, and you seem to keep your cool about it too, which i admire. used to admire those things about a couple other guys in here too. seeing as how i can't seem to keep my cool with the bandwagon jumpers (yeah i said it again, it's a very common term used in sporting circles to clearly descibe those whose support comes with winning and goes away with losing,the term paints a very clear picture thats why i keep using it, get used to it, it's what you are) i think i'll let BR handle the heavy load in here for a while. he's better equiped to deal with these quitters. yeah thats right i called you quitters, thats what you are, get used to that too. not saying i won't be around to jump in and call a spade a spade like i have been the last week or so, i will be. just aint worth the time and effort it takes to defend agaisnt outright lies. like the one you just defended about me from RT, thank you for that BR. you are an honorable man. i'm sure that this is great news to the bulk of you so called loyal dedicated supportive fans, to use a line from Calicko(yeah purposely misspelled your name so as to disparage you, just like you do, pretty cool huh)...PFFFFFFFFFFFT!! (and you call your blog silver and black forever? you really should change that title to silver and black forever or until they lose too much and i quit on them!!!) if this were midevil times you'd all be beheaded for that kind of loyalty. and dedicated, yeah..to insulting and ripping on your "favorite" and anyone who supports them. that brings us to support, just how are you quitters supporting this team? now don't go into the past, we're talking about today, this year, next year. i have heard time and again from several of you that you will no longer spend a dime to support this team. it is you i'm calling quitter and bandwagon jumper. you can't have your cake and eat it too. quit supporting then call yourselves supportive!!! you get this right? you have QUIT on the Raiders, no two ways about it. it's in black and white, and you said it not me. you have admitted it by saying you are witholding any money until such and such is done. as you like to say to us, those are not reasons for you quitting those are excuses. made to justify to yourself that you quit on your so called "favorite" team. thats what quitters do, make excuses to quit. shameful and sad, very very sad. you want to keep the "fan" title? ok i'll let ya, but we have to add a little something to it. what is it they call a father who refuses to pay his child support? yeah thats it, a deadbeat dad. thats what we'll add to the fan part, your deadbeat fans. just as he gives up the right to be the active father in his childs life, you should have to give up all things Raider.
just my humble opinion of the quitters and bandwagon jumpers known from here to fore as the "turd sandwich crew".
frkyraider
hey Mosh....you said you wanted to drive the bandwagon for a while? well take the riegns baby, i'm gonna go take a nap in the back for a while!! drive safe now you big 'ol Raider fan you!!!
frkyraider
Ummm, when I asked you, FRKY, where you disagreed with the substance of my recent takes, you cited my "attitude."
Forgive me, but I interpreted that as you not really disagreeing with what I am saying, but simply that I'm saying it, and that you don't like hearing it.
Similarly, Blanda doesn't really seem to disagree with me on any of the major points, he just doesn't like my tone (ie: the fact that I'm supposedly "demanding" things).
You both have have created a new form of the phrase, "I agree to disagree."
It's become, "I agree but I disagree."
This, I presume, is the only way to square a fixed position (Raider Take is wrong) with the mounting facts.
Frky, you're nothin' but an Al jockin' fashion fan. Congrats on your friggin' Raider ornaments. I was born and raised in Oakland. This is my team for far better reasons than mere owner worship and iconography that makes you one more manly. WTF? Who are you to bring up a term like "bandwagon jumper" you silly AL JOCKER. Between you, Gary and Blanda, I've had enough of this enabling garbage. I'll tell you what. If we don't reach 7 wins next season, will you admit that most of us actually have a god damn clue, or will continue to gloss over what's really going on here? Eh?
Here were my takes on the major developments of the 2009 offseason:
Coaching Search: A farce
Draft: Bungled
Free Agency: Well done
Preseason: A portent of a bad season to come
I caught so much crap for those takes (except for the free agency one), and yet each proved to be accurate.
On the four major points of the offseason, I was 25 percent positive in viewpoint and 75 percent negative in viewpoint, which proved to be a fairly good reflection of the resulting 2009 season.
In 2008, I wrote early and often that the Kiffin situation was going to blow up in our face, and that what was happening was inexcusable from an organizational standpoint.
I caught tons of crap for that, too.
Yet the crap slingers are back, as they are every January. You'd think the Raiders went 12-4, the way they are disrespecting my takes (while disavowing their own, apparently).
I just don't really see where the big beef with me is?
Is it because I want a GM and am not afraid to say it? You all want a GM, too, supposedly. Madden himself essentially said a football czar was necessary, and that Al Davis knows he needs one.
Is it because I don't have enough positive things to say about a team that is setting records for futility?
I'll tell you what, wait until I am wrong before you tell me I'm wrong. Is that too much to ask?
lmao RT, i been saying again and again and again, i agree with alot of the things you suggest. you just don't seem to beleive me. i disagree with your attitude and the quitting on YOUR team. the insults and all the crap that goes with it to and at the Raiders and anyone who dares support them. try reading my takes instead of trying to tell me what i think.
you see i chose this team a long long time ago to be my favorite, and nothing that goes on is going to change that. no amount of draft mistakes no amount of loses nothing will make me quit this team. does that mean i'm happy with the 11 loss seasons, hell fuckin NO, it doesn't!! i am not. does it mean i'm happy with the status quo? HELL FUCKIN NO!!! it doesn't. i am not. i want the Raiders to WIN. am i willing to quit them if they don't? HELL FUCKIN NO!!! never never NEVER!!! is it sinkin in yet? i will support MY team no matter what!!! i will never quit them, call me whatever the hell you want, i call it being a loyal dedicated supportive fan. maybe you should take some notes because thats what those words mean.
frkyraider
No, trust me, I hear you, that's why I said this:
"That's just like FRKY saying he doesn't really disagree with me, he just doesn't like me saying it."
Yet you didn't like me saying that, either.
Consider me confused.
As for quitting on my team, no, it's the opposite.
I am taking slings and arrows from the likes of you and Blanda to stand up for the type of change that is necessary turn this team around. That's not quitting by any stretch of the imagination.
I am standing up for the things that even Madden says are necessary. I am asking that broken ways be fixed.
Quitting would be acceptance of the situation. Whom might that describe?
ok, i'll almost give ya that one. but lets just chang it a little bit, like to this:
"That's just like FRKY saying he doesn't really disagree with me, he just doesn't like the way i'm saying it."
that and the pulling of your monetary support also known as quitting on your team. those things bother me the most. not that that matters to you. just stating how i feel for the record.
frkyraider
I am standing up for the things that even Madden says are necessary. I am asking that broken ways be fixed.
on this we can fully disagree!!! i think i explained that with the deadbeat dad analogy. as soon as you stop supporting this team, you have in effect quit.
frkyraider
ok, i won't be pulled back into this, thats the way i feel. i think it's black and white where you stood too. i'm out, peace!!!
Monetary support? Can I send you a bill for the 2008 season?
Here's what the 2008 season ticket package said when it arrived that summer: "I will always exemplify the pride and poise of the Raider Nation."
Also: "The PROMISE of a team of elite athletes dedicated to living up to the code: the commitment to excellence...Your 2008 Oakland Raiders."
Little did I know that, as I wrote the check, Al Davis was building a "for cause" case against the very coach he allowed to run training camp and start the season.
And you have the gall to call me out for not renewing my season tickets after that?
so quit already!!!
frkyraider
So we've reached the intellectually bankrupt point of no return: it all boils down to me deciding not to spend $620 every year for the rest of my life for the privilege of watching the Raiders no matter what type of product they serve.
I knew it was something like that at the bottom of all this. It's really they only way to explain the spoon bending.
no not the $620, it's making the CHOICE to refuse to spend any. you don't HAVE to buy season tickets. it's the choice to NOT support: i.e. deadbeat fan, see the difference? make all the excuses you want. the truth is you quit them. whether it's because they have slogans that they are not living up too, not winning enuff, not doing things the way you would, whatever. you quit.
frkyraider
But "we" have 5 pro bowlers!
Good, god, where to begin with Fryk's latest rambling delusions ... what a complete load of juvenile, off-base crap.
"bandwagon jumpers, yeah i said it again, it's a very common term used in sporting circles to clearly descibe those whose support comes with winning and goes away with losing"
My support of the Raiders has been continuous for 40 years and counting whether the team was 2-14 or won a Super Bowl.
"yeah thats right i called you quitters, thats what you are"
A quitter is someone who no longer has a keen interest in the team, no longer follows the team, no longer goes to games, no longer watches games on t.v. etc.
"and you call your blog silver and black forever? you really should change that title to silver and black forever or until they lose too much and i quit on them!!!"
I haven't quit on the team. I continue to blog. I continue to go to the games. The last time I missed a Raider game was in 1990 when I was in the Persian Gulf. Who is quitting? Ridiculous.
"just how are you quitters supporting this team? now don't go into the past, we're talking about today, this year, next year. i have heard time and again from several of you that you will no longer spend a dime to support this team."
I support the team by flying the colors, attending Raiders booster club meetings, by blogging the past 4 years, by going to 1-2 games every year without fail, by watching every game, by visiting the net daily for Raider news, and on and on. What are my plans for this year? See above. My support has been and will continue to be unwavering no matter how twisted you get shit Fryk. Deal with it hombre. And when I say "deal with it" I mean deal with long time, dedicated, loyal, die hard fans who are sick and tired of the monkey business being conducted in Alameda.
The Raiders have been a complete train wreck the past 7 years. As I've said a zillion times and will continue to say, I would love to see some positive developments, and sound managment decisions that leads to less double digit loss seasons and more double digit win seasons.
I am an optimistic realist which means I hope for the best but base my opinions on reality. Our reality right now is an 81 year old who is incapable of handling the demands and workload in a hyper competitive sport. We are competing with 1 arm behind our back because our owner has chosen to keep the status quo and not get the exeucutive managment support he desperately needs and deserves.
And with that, I can officially declare, the emperor has no clothes.
The emperor is buck naked. Heaven forbid that a consumer adjusts his discretionary spending based on the quality of the product and his own financial means.
Newsflash to Frykraider:
Money is not nor will it ever be the ONLY way a fan can support his team. A buddy of mine Rey rocks the same Lott jersey he purchased many years ago. It is the only Raider jersey he owns. He hasn' attended a game since the Raiders were back in LA. He watches the majority of games on t.v. at home. In your distorted, warped concept of fandom, you would say Rey doesn't support the Raiders which couldn't be more further from the truth. Your whole notion of a "deadbeat fan" is completely misguided.
financial hardship is totally acceptable. and i stand corrected on that you still spend money on this team. if that is true then you have not quit as i had thought. i had thought you had expressed the same "i won't spend another dime on this team until...." for that i appologize Calicko.
my opinion of those who are making the choice to withold the money that they would NORMAlY spend,.... ah screw it, you know exactly what i mean, what i meant and how i feel about it, twist the shit anyway you want to, i've given up on you guys. if you don't support them you've quit them, you know it and i know it. justify with any excuse you want, it won't matter.
now back to our regular scheduled slamming and insults. fun blog this is becoming.
frkyraider
p.s. it's spelled F R K Y Calick-o!!!
hey on the bright side, it looks like i've made emperor!!!
frkyraider
Freak spent 20 years of cash on the shithawks...by his own "logic".....he must of been a shithawk fan.
These guys (the crew), they always end up shooting themselves in the foot. Their own BS always comes around and kicks them in the ass. So, again, by freak's definition, you can only be a real fan if you are,
a) buying Raider gadgets/ chooo chooo twains
b) Having your ass in Alameda county coliseum.
c) Kissing Al Davis' ass.
JONES
There are certainly worse titles than Emperor.
Signed,
The Bandwagoner
you still got a good sense of humor RT. thats a good thing, i'll give ya that.
Emperor Fry K
Frkyraider aka Seahagraider-
You have no clue about what constitutes being a supportive Raiders fan.
By your definition, you have supported the Seahawks above and beyond supporting the Raiders.
Supporting a team is NOT purely by dollars spent. You know it and I know it but you've boxed yourself in by your faulty definition of fandom and drawing unnecessary lines in the sand.
As you know, Raider fans come are a highly diversified group of people not only in their perspectives and opinions but their financial means, and how they demonstrate their fandom. Whose to say whether 1 fan is more supportive than another fan just because he spends more money on merchandise? And quite frankly, who really gives a shit anyway.
Finally, when you start calling people out as 'quitters' 'deadbeat fans' and have absolutely ZERO ammunition to back it up, I sincerely suggest you either get wise or step off.
Real Raider fans join booster clubs and buy Raider X-mas ornaments!!! *chuckle* Riiight.
These 'fashion' fan types are too much. I take pride in being a East Bay dude who was raised Oakland, CA. I attended Raider games growing up as a kid and I have great pride in my hometown team. Yeah, we've been 'dicked' by Al Davis on more than one occasion. Of course, 'fashion fans' have nothing invested in our community, but those of us from Oakland support the Raiders because of the players who fought for us and our community. We gave up on Al long ago, because we knew that his head wasn't right: once he put himself above the players and the fans, losing became the norm rather than the exception. Take Marcus Allen for example. Everyone who played with him saw Marcus as an inspiration and a great leader. Yet to Al, Marcus was a mere locker room cancer. Guess where the jealousy lies?
Look, I don't need some panzy-ass fashion fan telling me what's fair-weather fan. I didn't become a fan because I thought the colors were cool or because Al is a rebellious saint who represents the working class. You haven't a clue. Nor do you understand what the hell is really going on here. How many fuckin' times do I and other have to be RIGHT for you dim bulbs to get a clue?
Sorry Take, I'll tone it down from here on out, but I felt compelled to get that off my chest.
Frky doesn’t understand that Al Davis abandoned this team, not us.
Yet here we all are, the bandwagoners, pining for smarter (reasonable) decisions.
No news, is like - no news.
H
Here’s a good read about the coaching status.
http://tinyurl.com/yb7weez
Raiders made Callahan wait until the middle of march before giving him a contract and, in a similar fashion, they made Cable wait last year.
___________
“Callahan wasn’t called in to talk contract until March 12 and his hiring was announced March 13.
Davis explained why he proceeded that way the following day when Callahan was introduced.
“I wanted to see and we wanted to see Bill function in that role to see how the organization would operate, how would we do in the free-agent market,” Davis said. “And we felt after a short period of time we could compete with anyone.”
_____________
That part about competing with anyone didn’t last too long.
This year Cable is under contract, but there is NO certainty he'll be HC for 2010. As J-mac aptly puts it, “no reason to let him get comfortable.”
Looks like we have come to grips with the fact that our head coach was thin, and so we now have an OC again (Hue Jackson).
Now, if we could get our owner/GM to do something about himself being spread to thin, we might be onto something.
Blanda... I want to pick a blue-chip LT at #8 instead of a FA lineman because the only FA linemen available are crap ones like we always end up stuck with. Almost all of the blue-chip LT's have an immediate impact, and an improved o-line is the QUICKEST way to improvement. As I said to Arky on Usenet... I'm still not convinced that our defensive woes aren't mainly due to coaching problems, and we can't afford to use defensive draft picks when the problem might be coaching.
RT... I don't recall what you were right about during the Kiffin debacle... not pointing a finger here, but did you want Kiffin fired during the off-season or something? I didn't want him fired until it was OBVIOUS he was trying to get fired. [shrug]
Not sure why anyone would be PROUD of being right about the team they root for sucking, but I guess thats a cross you and your pal Onandon have to carry. You two are the only people I see bragging about it.
Could you go into a bar ans yell "Hey everyone... LOOK AT ME!! I told you the team I love SUCKS!!"
Isn't that even a LITTLE embarrassing to you?
At the very worst I'd say something like "Yea they might suck, but I still love them regardless, and ALWAYS have hope."
Guess thats just me?
>>>
we can't afford to use defensive draft picks when the problem might be coaching.
>>>
Let me clarify... I still want to use our 2nd and 3rd round pick of defense... don't get me wrong.
There are plenty of talent holes to plug on defense.
I thought Jackson was to interview with da Bears today...?
he CHOSE the Raiders over the bears, a concept thought to be impossible to many in here, he must not be in his right mind if we are to believe the nay sayers. or as they will spin now, he is just a desperate unqualified coach. just guessing on the turd sandwich spin.
guess who
He took the Raiders over the Bears? The Bears just wanted to interview him, doesn't mean they would hire him.
Have you done any research on the guy? As an OC, he sucked, he has been floating from one team to another his whole career. The guy is mediocre at best. If you think this is a steal.....does the "crew" ever think before writing?
JONES
Once again, Al hires mediocre because he offers them a job that they aren't qualified for. They look at it as furthering their career, knowing that it probably won't last long, but looks good on their resume......meanwhile, they dumb fans of the Raiders, jump for joy because he chose the Raiders over the Bears.....the "crew" is just as absurd as Alameda.
JONES
In 2003, with Steve Spurrier as coach, Jackson’s offense was ranked 23rd overall (291.2 yrds per game), was 22nd in scoring (17.9 points per game), 21st in passing (187.9 yards per game and 22nd in rushing (103.3 yards per game). His quarterbacks were Patrick Ramsey and Tim Hasselbeck. The Redskins finished 5-11. The previous two years in Washington, Jackson was running backs coach.
In 2007, Jackson joined Bobby Petrino in Atlanta, leaving the staff of the Cincinnati Bengals, where he coached wide receivers from 2004 through 2006. The Falcons were 29th in scoring (16.2 points per game), 23rd in total offense (301.0 yards per game), 18th in passing (206.0 yards per game and 26th in rushing (95 yards per game. Jackson’s quarterbacks were Joey Harrington and Chris Redman.
there is your research. lol, yeah he stank, he had some very formidable coaches and talent to work with there didn't he.
your knee jerk reaction to quash anything that might be seen as a positive is laughable and all too predictable.
frkyraider
The last two hires are both guys that have worked with Cable before. That is, if the Jackson Hue reports are true.
That alone would indicate to me that Cable had input into their hiring.
As for Detroit, they pretty much sucked before Millen and inporved from 0 to 2 wins last season without him.
The fans there are on about their tenth or twelth revolt since 1960.
I'm beginning to believe their isn't enough cheese in the state of Wisconsin for all the whine going on.
Bottom line for me is I can't change what is going on. I can offer my critisism, say who I would like in the draft, FA and coaching and that I would like to see a new GM. After that, I have to let it go.
But, at the end of the day, I'm a fan. No if's and's or but's. I'm in or out, no middle ground. And, if I make the decision to go out, it's irrevocable.
It bugs me we are losing. It bugs me that Al Davis hasn't hired proper help. But, I can't continually wring my hands about it.
H
"As for Detroit, they pretty much sucked before Millen and inporved from 0 to 2 wins last season without him.
The fans there are on about their tenth or twelth revolt since 1960.
I'm beginning to believe their isn't enough cheese in the state of Wisconsin for all the whine going on."
My goodness.....doesn't even know what state Detroit is in....it's a losing battle.
JONES
Ain't my fault Al can only hire people no one else wants...blame it on me, if it makes you feel better, freak. I don't see a positive in hiring Huey except for he worked with Cable before, it's just more of the same. You just continue to be fooled by it, I don't and that's where we differ.
You know what else is predictable freak? You said you wouldn't be reading or responding to my posts anymore..how long did that last....way too funny, I can't wait to be a gwown up, just like you, freak.
JONES
"Jackson’s quarterbacks were Joey Harrington and Chris Redman."
Just wait and see what Huey can do with Jafatass...he'll be a ProBowler next year, sure as tits are on my lawnmower.
JONES
Not sure what to make of the Jackson hire. The Raiders track record speaks for itself.
True to form, the Raiders are not connected with any other contacts or interviews for OC. Another coach hired by default?
I don't remember the Raiders approaching a guy like Mike Martz to be OC.
In fact, what top level coach has the Raiders interviewed or hired in the last seven years? What few good assistants they had in 2008 they let slip right through their hands.
Also, many here just assume Cable was involved in this choice. Sure, there's a connection. But the report I read seemed pretty clear that Cable was not involved in at least one interview involving Jackson.
This hire may have gone down the way Lofton and many other assistants have been hired, without the HC's knowledge.
What amazes me is that we go through these types of hires every year, and they are viewed with great anticipation of improving the Raiders; in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
History tells us this just might be Davis shooting blanks with his toy pistol, again!
And it's probably safe to assume the most critical change needed is not even being addressed.
Hey Jonesy,
Know your states. They make cheese in Wisconsin. You know, "The Dairy State" They kinda sorta make cars in Michigan, but are more recently known as the unemployment state.
And most of the Whine is coming from your post.
Like I said before, if you can't figure it out, your problem, not mine.
H
Jonesy,
Next time I'll draw a picture, maybe then you'll understand the sarcasm a little better. I'll use the big crayons.
H
OK. I have been one to call for Cable's head on other forums. I thought he was Al's "yes" man. I never thought JR was ever going to pan out and still believe that.
BUT, OTH I will go on record here and now and advocate that Cable remain as the Raiders coach. Several reasons. 1. No other competent coach would sacrifice his career by coming to Oakland.
2. Maybe Cable can right the ship under the right circumstances. I really think he can do it. So I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and back him up. Needless to say, Al and JR will have to stay out of the mix in order for Cable to turn it around. The former being hard to predict the latter more predictable.
So as of today, I'm off the bashing bandwagon and behind the team 100%.
Now, where can I get the DVD of the Raiders greatest games?:>)
Quote from Hue Jackson:
"I've been to the Raiders and spent time with [owner] Mr. [Al] Davis and talking to [coach] Tom Cable,".
Tells me Cable was involved.
H
Just thought that since you were talking about Detroit....my bad if I took it wrong.
As far as Cable being involved.... who cares, what does it matter, nothing has changed, now we just get to sit and wait for the fun to begin. Huey is just another below Avg coach, nobody else wanted him and the Raiders "stole" him. Al asked Huey if he would take orders from him during a game and Huey said "yup" Al said "hired".
JONES
Here's the full quote from Huey:
"Tom [Cable] and I have had some good conversations, but I spent most of my time talking with Mr. Davis. What a man. He’s one of the guys in this profession that you would like to have an opportunity to sit down and talk with, let alone work for. My conversations with him led me there. Hopefully, things will work as planned, and I think we’re capable of doing it."
Hue Jackson
Sounds like an Al hire to me.
JONES
H -
"I've been to the Raiders and spent time with [owner] Mr. [Al] Davis and talking to [coach] Tom Cable,".
"Tells me Cable was involved."
Yeah, and Kiffin said he "spoke" with James Lofton, but didn't know that he had been hired.
I didn't need to go past the first sentence to show why I think Cable was involved.
Waufle also worked with Cable and I'm sure they also talked.
It gives me the impression Cable is staying. Now, something might just happen after the Super Bowl, if it did I wouldn't be surprised. But, I think the continuity angle is the one being most looked at this off season. That and what to do with Russell.
H
NYRaider,
Kiffin has been pretty clueless about a lot of things. He goes to Tennesee and shows all the new recruits USC highlights. Kinda showed where his heart and head really was.
H
H, Waufle worked for the Raiders in 02. So let's not get carried away. Al chooses who to hire; no one else, period.
Yeah, Cable is staying. Al can't find anyone better to replace him. Big deal. I could care less whether Cable stays or goes myself. The results will be not much different than last season. Don't say I didn't tell ya.
Cable could be staying and Russell WILL be starting. Read Huey's comments on Russell....here we go again....Al Davis' idea of continuity and the rest of the world's, is very far apart. If that's all you have to grasp to after an OC hire...YIKES, why isn't anyone saying this is a good hire? I know, we have to look at the positive's, right? Otherwise you will be known as a bandwagon jumper, right?
JONES
H -
I can't really argue about Kiffin being an ass, but it doesn't change that Davis has a propensity to hire and fire (or not fire) coaches without the agreement or even knowledge of his HC.
The fact that Davis might have been at odds with Kiffin (or other coaches) at the time doesn’t make it right.
Davis' job is to make the Raiders a winner, not to make Kiffin look like an uninformed boob with no authority. Unfortunately, he spent way too much time on the latter... and probably still is (Kiffin's contract is still not resolved).
Onandonandon,
Perfect handle since you go on and on and on.
Take my word for it. I won't say you didnt' tell me. But, I will remind you of it if we make a good solid run at the playoffs next season.
As for Cable's "status", one thing has been taken care of, he's not the play caller.
For Russell, I wouldn't pencil him in as the starter. If Gradkowski and Losman come back (and I think they will), Frye may be the odd man out. But, this should definitely be Russell's last hurrah. I'm a patient guy, but it's not like he is surrounded by lousy players, Gradkowski proved that.
NYRaider,
At least we can agree Kiffin is an ass.
H
He was spread too thin, trying to handle too many jobs at once, and his performance suffered. So we went out and hired someone to fill one of his roles, to provide crucial help in making sure that this role was executed with sufficient energy and attention to detail, so that we could become more competitive.
On that note, I'd like to welcome our new GM...err, I mean, OC.
"I will remind you of it if we make a good solid run at the playoffs next season."
If we make a good solid run AT the playoffs....wow, wouldn't that be something, a solid run AT the playoffs. How bout a good solid run IN the playoffs? The "crew" sure set their sites low.
Again, why isn't one "crew" member telling us that this is a good hire? Are they jumping off the wagon?
JONES
H said,
"It bugs me we are losing. It bugs me that Al Davis hasn't hired proper help. But, I can't continually wring my hands about it".
Gee H, I'm sure glad you weren't around for the Boston tea party.
You would have said,
"Yes taxes are sky high and we're not free, but what can we do ? Put down that tea, let's go home and hope for the best".
Oh well, even King George lll had his loyalist.
Jonesy,
A solid run at the playoffs is what I need to remind you. My current expectations ARE the playoffs. I stated so in the last take.
The Bi-Planes made a solid run at the playoffs and only got in because the Ponies pulled their starters. Then they made a solid run "in" the playoffs.
Raider00,
So, you are saying we should storm the castle and throw the bum out.
Come on man, you aren't even in apples and oranges territory with that annology. It's more like apples and blue whales territory.
It's his business, he owns it. He's not some oppressive government demanding, with the threat of an army to come occupy my house and send me to prison if I don't comply.
If it comes to that in this country, I'm down for the struggle as they say. But, we're talking about a sports franchise here. A game. If the NFL ceases to exist tomorrow, I'll find something else to do on Sundays in the fall.
There's way more important things for me to attempt to affect change in.
It's still a free country. If Al Davis wants to run the team this way, it's his choice. And, I'm not going to wring my hands over it.
And yes, my congressional delegation hears from me on a regular basis.
H
Tell 'em H. People comparing a game to real life like that makes you wanna slap a .. person.
Now if they quit playing football on Saturday also... well, we might have a problem ;-)
-moshbucket
Hue Jackson was a great hire.
There, feel better Jones?
Nobody will know if he is a great hire until we see how he does at OC.
Would Mike Martz be a good hire?
I'm sure it was all Mike Martz, and Kurt Warner and Marshal Faulk could have been replaced by anybody with the same results, since it's all just the system, right?
And he did so well at Detroit and San Fran, didn't he?
jackson's coached all the skill positions, so maybe he will be able to bring it all together. The question is will he be stuck with an uninspired JaBustus, will JaBustus 'get it' and be able to turn it around, or will Jackson/Cable be free to replace the QB if desired?
There are plenty of coaches that stunk it up, then came back with great performances.
-moshbucket
H,
ok, perhaps my analogy was a bit over the top.
But with the Raiders mired in an epic streak of losing seasons, I do not think silence is the answer.
wringing of hands, & whining, as you call it, are also known as opinions.
And with enough voices, over time, it can bring change.
Al is the owner, and he can ignore all the voices & billboards for now.
But as the voices grow, attendance dwindles, and less $$ spent on his team, he cannot ignore the fans forever.
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