Blame Russell, not Raiders
Well, JaMarcus Russell has truly circled the drain.
After essentially thieving the Raiders of $40 million by taking the money while failing to bring commensurate effort to the field, he has ridden off into the purple sunset, where his millions will come in handy for paying the bail on his arrest for illegal possession of a prescription narcotic.
He's like the second coming of Todd Marinovich. Sigh.
Now the media are piling on, using Russell's latest stumble as an opportunity to wag their finger at the Raiders, as if the Raiders themselves had swapped the sideline Gatorade for Purple Drank.
Sorry, nice try, but this is no one's fault but Russell's.
I do believe that the Raiders are to blame for drafting a low-effort, questionable-character guy like Russell. I don't believe that he turned into a loser overnight. Look at the successful quarterbacks in the NFL, the McNabbs, Mannings, Breeses, Bradys, etc. Look at the up-and-comers like Flacco and Ryan. They are all as sharp as a tack. They ooze not only talent, but leadership smarts.
Do you really think that Russell ever came across as "sharp as a tack" during the extensive interviews and background checks that you hope the Raiders would have conducted before making a $40 million investment in him?
I doubt it. Which should have been fair warning about his future prospects as an elite NFL quarterback.
So the mistake was made, and thankfully we bit the bullet and cut him loose.
But the rest is on Russell, despite the media nagging that the Raiders are somehow to blame for his illicit preferences in cough syrup. If he'd come to work, he might have worked out in the end. But he didn't, and that's on Russell, not the Raiders.
Oh, sure, it would have been helpful if the Raiders hadn't experienced coaching turmoil and related dysfunction during Russell's first years with the team. But that's tough nuts. Adversity almost always goes with being a top pick and the millions that come with it, because the team with the high pick is typically mired in losing. That's how they got the high pick in the first place, right?
Bruce Gradkowski came to the Raiders with three years and 19 games under his belt. At that time, Russell had two years and 19 games under his belt. Virtual equals in experience.
Yet there was Gradkowski, busting his ass and making it rain. Whose fault was his success? The Raiders? The same Raiders who are to blame for Russell's failures?
The Raiders failed in picking Russell. But Russell's own failure belongs to Russell himself.
After essentially thieving the Raiders of $40 million by taking the money while failing to bring commensurate effort to the field, he has ridden off into the purple sunset, where his millions will come in handy for paying the bail on his arrest for illegal possession of a prescription narcotic.
He's like the second coming of Todd Marinovich. Sigh.
Now the media are piling on, using Russell's latest stumble as an opportunity to wag their finger at the Raiders, as if the Raiders themselves had swapped the sideline Gatorade for Purple Drank.
Sorry, nice try, but this is no one's fault but Russell's.
I do believe that the Raiders are to blame for drafting a low-effort, questionable-character guy like Russell. I don't believe that he turned into a loser overnight. Look at the successful quarterbacks in the NFL, the McNabbs, Mannings, Breeses, Bradys, etc. Look at the up-and-comers like Flacco and Ryan. They are all as sharp as a tack. They ooze not only talent, but leadership smarts.
Do you really think that Russell ever came across as "sharp as a tack" during the extensive interviews and background checks that you hope the Raiders would have conducted before making a $40 million investment in him?
I doubt it. Which should have been fair warning about his future prospects as an elite NFL quarterback.
So the mistake was made, and thankfully we bit the bullet and cut him loose.
But the rest is on Russell, despite the media nagging that the Raiders are somehow to blame for his illicit preferences in cough syrup. If he'd come to work, he might have worked out in the end. But he didn't, and that's on Russell, not the Raiders.
Oh, sure, it would have been helpful if the Raiders hadn't experienced coaching turmoil and related dysfunction during Russell's first years with the team. But that's tough nuts. Adversity almost always goes with being a top pick and the millions that come with it, because the team with the high pick is typically mired in losing. That's how they got the high pick in the first place, right?
Bruce Gradkowski came to the Raiders with three years and 19 games under his belt. At that time, Russell had two years and 19 games under his belt. Virtual equals in experience.
Yet there was Gradkowski, busting his ass and making it rain. Whose fault was his success? The Raiders? The same Raiders who are to blame for Russell's failures?
The Raiders failed in picking Russell. But Russell's own failure belongs to Russell himself.
posted by Raider Take at 3:49 PM
391 Comments:
Nice shot, RT. But I'd have called Purdy out by name.
However, regarding your JaMarcus was always too dumb to be considered for NFL QB meme, I'd break the rules look back at NFL history. Two QBs I can remember in my time as being labeld too dumb to lead - Terry Bradshaw and Johnny Unitas.
Thanks. He's not alone, it's more than one columnist. What's-her-name with Sports Irritating is another example.
I think the meme holds. Unitas and Bradshaw played in a simpler time in the NFL. Look at the playbooks, then and now.
Also, it's not just a matter of book smarts, it's a matter of presence, awareness and leadership qualities. Hard to believe that Russell ever demonstrated these things enough to suggest he would join the elite.
It kills me that I wanted the Raiders to draft Russell, but I can't change that fact.
I can only guess the Raiders viewed the same YouTube videos I viewed prior to making their decision. Of course, that decision was against the better judgement of their then-HC, whom the Raiders would soon after spend several months building a case to fire "for cause."
Russell sure fooled the Raiders. Turns out he's just a punk with too much bling, looking for his next fix.
The question is, were his interviews and background checks as impressive as his YouTube highlights? Really hard to believe.
NY Raider, if someone wants to pay you (or me) the big bucks to break down not just the highlights but all of the film, consult with QB specialists, conduct one-on-one interviews and interviews with associates, and do serious background checks, then I'll be happy to hold you (and me) responsible for a bad pick.
Until then, it's not our responsibility to get it right.
NYRaider,
While i did not want Russell, I did want the Raiders to draft Matt Lienart.
Russell was a total bust, and I guess we'll find out about Lienart this year.
It just goes to show, you never know.
"The question is, were his interviews and background checks as impressive as his YouTube highlights? Really hard to believe." ~'Take
THE nutshell. I'd tried to defend the signing of Russell much like I'd done so for Gallery. The experts said this. That. Potential, et cetera... ad nauseum.
Inside, I didn't see Russell as a leader. Too laid back. However, I perceived the powers-that-be to have had an insight to which I was simply not privy. So I supported their stamp of approval.
Well, as it's turned out, Gallery's arms were "too short", noted after the fact. Who knew? The "experts" predicted him as the ProBowl Franchise LT for a decade. But he's worked his a$$ off to adapt, and has become an exceptional OG. Should he stay healthy, perhaps the left side of the OL may prove worthy for Jason Campbell.
These same experts had us pitting Russell against the other Brady... i.e. Brady Quinn (not Tom). Appparently there wasn't a QB worthy of 1st round selection in 2007, as it seems in hindsight. Calvin "MegaTron"? Hmmmph.
Again. Hindsight.
JaMarcus Russell's decisions to opt for a mind-numbing existence is truly his choice. If that's what floats his boat, well, more power to him.
But... he needs to accept the rage of an entire nation - the ORIGINAL Nation - who's been ripped off by not only our Management team who'd hired him, but by he who deemed us - and our money - unworthy of his efforts.
~'Cat
Well "RT" nice post...
I would add that many "QB"s are taken by teams with an element of risk not just by the Raiders...
Lianert may have appeared to have the intelligence but that has failed to translate to the field...Only now does the 1st "QB" taken that year start to show some signs of being a NFL "QB" of the future...Vince Young...And some said he was lower on the intelligence scale than Matt...We passed on Matt when most including myself expected him to be taken...Appears Al was right in that one...
Also I would add that many have had emotional and or drug/alcohol problems after joining the NFL...
Bret is an alcoholic...He also applied himself to overcome that disease and excel at "QB" with all the leadership skills you mentioned...Culpepper has had his issues and at times appeared to have it together but has failed of late..."Big Ben" is another who out performs his inherent attitude problems...And of course we all remember the "Snake"....Enough said...
"JeFat" has shown none of that drive to overcome and that's on him...Hell...Even our Beret Robins excelled at "C" to become a "PB"er until his mental condition overcame him during "SB" week...
PantyRaider...What A Total Waste And I Pimped That Guy!!!/_
A note on the pre-draft analysis of "JeFat"...
The Raiders were not the only team with him in their sights and there were reportedly offers to move up to the 1st position with him as the target...The "WR" was the other target...
When we selected "JeFat" most reported we had gotten our "QB" of the future and speculations ran rapid about our vertical passing game...That never materialized at all...
His "HS" and College careers were outstanding and everyone talked about how he was a quiet man who led by example which was not perceived as being a weakness at the time...And in all fairness to the scouting dept they are restricted as to what questions can be asked as we have now discovered...Someone asked if a player's mother had been a whore and that was off limits...
LSU quarterback JaMarcus Russell replaced Quinn as the projected first selection after his performance in the 2007 Sugar Bowl against Quinn and Notre Dame
RAIDERS Did the smart thing by taking JaMarcus Russell and get bonus points for unloading Randy Moss on the Patriots for a fourth-round pick (used to select Cincinnati cornerback John Bowie). RB Michael Bush of Louisville looks like a fourth-round steal. A-
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/jeffri_chadiha/05/01/afc.draft.grades0507/index.html
1. The Oakland Raiders - JaMarcus Russell (QB)
The top NFL Draft Pick goes to the Oakland Raiders, who have been in desperate need of a quarterback since 2002. LSU's Jamarcus Russell big, strong and versatile superstar, who completed 68% of his passes, threw 28 Touchdowns and only 8 picks in 2006. His size, Bowl game performance and combine showing shit him ahead of Notre Dame’s Brady Quinn.
http://national-football-league-nfl.suite101.com/article.cfm/the_2007_nfl_draft_top_ten_picks
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/1005/nfl.jamarcus.russell.hype/content.1.html
PantyRaider...There Is Allot Of History Archives That Tell The Story!!!/_
http://sprungonsports.com/2010/04/26/2007-nfl-draft-grades-3-years-later/
Raiders F
Grade given on 5/1/07: B-
Good Moves: JaMarcus Russell was a no-brainer. The Raiders couldn't possibly go into another season with Andrew Walter at quarterback. Zach Miller was a great selection in the second. Miller could be the Pro Bowl tight end Al Davis has been searching for. Quentin Moses, taken with the first pick in the third round, will provide depth the Raiders need at defensive end. In the fourth, Oakland took a chance on Michael Bush. If he can make it back from his multiple injuries, the Raiders will have a great running back for years to come. If not, they wasted a single fourth-round selection. Big whoop.
Bad Moves: Excluding quarterback, the offensive line and receiver were the Raiders' two greatest needs. Neither was addressed until the end of the third round. I would have spent pick No. 65 James Marten, Ryan Harris or Jason Hill. I thought it was a bit early to take Mario Henderson at No. 91. Cornerback John Bowie, picked in the fourth round, was also a reach. Can anyone explain the sixth-round selection of Oren O'Neal to me?
Instant 2007 Starters: QB JaMarcus Russell, TE Zach Miller.
Potential 2007 Starters: DE Quentin Moses, OT Mario Henderson, WR Johnnie Lee Higgins, RB Michael Bush.
Other Picks: CB John Bowie, DE Jay Richardson, S Eric Frampton, FB Oren O'Neal, WR Johnathan Holland.
PantyRaider...Total Difference Between Hind-Sight -n- Perception At The Time!!!!/_
And some are already trying to give a grade on this years draft...Now how foolish is that...Just because you like it for once...We...So do I but it's still a wait-n-see proposition as always....There are NO sure things...A lesson that "SOME" refuse to learn....
Now this is some funny shit for all who like a good laugh at our past pains "Hip-Hop" style...
http://www.silverandblackpride.com/2010/7/5/1554231/jamarcus-russells-raiders-post#storyjump
PantyRaider..."JeFat"s Photo-Op!!!!/_
Many in the punditry were giving Russell high marks pre draft. Some even said it was the only smart choice. Others were leaning toward Calvin Johnson. In hindsight, Johnson has had a very good start, but he hasn’t helped much in the win column, so neither.
Russell performed very well in a tough league in college. Normally that will translate, but this time no.
Take,
In your list of QB’s there is a common thread. All finished their time in college. That seems to be very important for quarterbacks. Ryan, Flaco and McNabb were fifth year seniors, Manning and Breese stayed through their senior years. Russell was a redshirt, played two years and declared for the draft. There’s a lot to be said for not drafting QB’s that declare early, especially in the first round.
My hope is that coming out early doesn’t hurt Rolando McClain. But, he seems very mature for his age.
The Raiders should have opted for someone else that year (evidently not Brady Quinn either), it was a mistake on their part to take him. But, for Russell, he had tremendous talent, was given money and opportunity. For now, he has wasted all three and only needs to look in the mirror to find the person most responsible.
Lawrence Taylor once complained mightily to the press that the cops set him up in a cocaine sting. Well, he could have said no, not bought the stuff and walked away. I have no sympathy for those who blame others for their own bad decision.
H
On a positive note:
I believe Jason Campbell was a fifth year senior in college. He graduated high school in 2000.
So, redshirt (2000) Starter in 2001, 2002, 2003 and 2004. Drafted April 2005.
Yep, that equates. Good thing I'm a math minor.
H
Raiders now look to be using this incident to jockey their position against Russell in a grievance seeking $9.55M.
They issued a statement that Russell had a "myriad of issues" and they did all they could to "intervene and assist" him. Of course, they couldn't say what issues because it's against NFL policy. Hmmm.
You can bet if the Raiders had any idea Russell was involved with a controlled substance that they would have reported it to the NFL in attempt to establish breach of contract. No way the Raiders were sitting on that information.
Here's the entire quote:
"We did all that we could to intervene and assist with a myriad of issues with JaMarcus Russell," the statement said. "NFL policy restricts our ability to comment publicly at this time. Therefore, those in the media who declare what the Raiders knew or should have known or what the Raiders did or should have done, are reckless, irresponsible and offensive, and do a disservice to all concerned, including the public."
Make of it what you wish. As always Alameda is very secretive about these things.
The larger question now is will the NFL now put codeine on its list of banned substances.
Russell isn't the only one, just the biggest fish so far.
H
The article stated it was a two month investigation. Perhaps it was the Raiders who initially provided information to the sheriff's office.
Just food for thought.
H
I don't get it. Every year, after ever draft, we all rant about how the media gurus don't have a clue.
Fine.
But now that JaMarcus has circled the drain, we use this critique that the media gurus don't have a clue...to give the Raiders a pass for not having a clue? As if we're all (me, you, the media and the Raiders) equally responsible for the drafting of Russell?
Preposterous.
Are you suggesting that there's no difference between Mel Kiper and the Raiders when it comes to talent evaluation? That it's just a crapshoot, at which point they should just toss darts around the war room?
The fact is that the Raiders had more access to, and focus on, Russell (or they should have) than me, you and Kiper and everyone else.
In considering him for the first pick at a cost of $40 million, they should have been breaking down more film and conducting more interviews and more background checks than anyone else.
And they whiffed. It happens.
I don't know what transpired behind the scenes, but I suspect that the Raiders didn't do due diligence on the character front. Let's face it, they weren't exactly in "character mode" at that time, as evident in Kiffin, Hall, Walker, etc.
So it happened. And now it's over.
I'm not going to blame the Raiders for Russell's low character and drug use.
For the same reason I'm not going to blame Mel Kiper and NY Raider or myself for the Raiders whiffing on Russell.
This is one of the best takes I've read on here, RT. I totally agree, every thing that has transpired since '07 is square on Russell's shoulders. The only thing I blame the coaches for is not being in his face on the sidelines going over pictures, etc with him.
I was hoping that we would've picked someone else, but knew that we were going to pick Russell. Overall, at the time, he seemed like a reasonable pick. After the pick, I was excited to see what he could bring, but I felt he was still 2 years away from being remotely ready (and that was if he put in the work).
His downsides (according to experts) coming in were: fumble/ball control, young, accuracy, questionable desire.
His upsides (according to experts) coming in were: teachable (yeah right), even keeled, enormous passing ability, potential.
In 2007, I was hoping to take Calvin Johnson with the first pick. Then select a QB in the 2nd round or later rounds. Here were the QBs available in that time frame:
Kevin Kolb (2nd round, we would've had to trade up for this pick)
John Beck (2nd round)
Drew Stanton (2nd round)
Trent Edwards (3rd round)
Troy Smith (5th round)
Tyler Thigpen (7th round)
I think Kolb and Smith would be the better picks out of this group.
BTW, I'm having problems posting a comment. Had to sign up on a google account to post a comment.
Opening up the Russell perspective...
I've mentioned this before. All through high school, college and preparing for the NFL draft, Russell had an uncle who served as his father figure/mentor. In this relationship, Russell was always well folded under the wing of his uncle.
Looking back, it cannot be denied that Russell showed steady improvement from the time he stepped on the Raider practice field until the conclusion of the 2008 season. We all held our breath, waiting to see how Russell's third year would unfold.
Then his uncle died in the off season before the 2009 season. And Russell went completely into the crapper.
Immediately after the signing of Russell he began collecting a "posse." He decked himself out in bling and furs, and tried to present the image of a Hip Hop star. I believe Russell's uncle likely shielded Russell (to a degree) from these guys until he died. And when the uncle died, the "posse" told Russell how to ease the pain. And he continued to ease the pain throughout 2009.
I think Eddie Anderson was then assigned to Russell as a baby sitter. Anderson probably suspected the drug use, but never saw it up close and personal - but none-the-less he informed the Raiders. It could well be that the Raiders confronted him and told him to seek rehab, but Russell refused, denying any problem. At that point the Raiders simply released him and made the decision to try to get some of their money back.
I'd also point out that for the first couple of seasons here - particularly in 2008 - Russell was showing signs of quiet leadership. "Chill, we got this one."
I don't think the issue is as simplistic as "due diligence."
On an interesting, and I think a good note, Campbell has been working out with Bret Favre.
Take,
Not sure who you were responding to, but here’s my explanation of the media involvement in this.
Back when Russell was drafted, we on the outside looking in, only had what was printed about the guy and the highlight videos and the games we saw. Todd McShay even said Russell had the best pro day he had ever seen.
We are not privy to the vetting process and hope it is handled properly. In this case it wasn’t or what was discovered was deemed to be surmountable. In the end it wasn’t.
Now, if anything good comes from this it is the trend toward draftees with better work ethic and character. DHB had hands of stone last season, but he is working his butt off to improve. Had Russell worked half as hard and steered clear of the “drank” I might feel differently about the guy.
But, he’s an adult and had all the opportunity and facilities available to him to improve his skills and image. He refused.
H
I can't believe the Raiders had any clue about Russell's possible drug use. Otherwise, it would have been presented as part of their grievence to recover money from Russell... even if only stated as some undisclosed basis for their claim.
But they did not.
Now they appear to be positioning themselves through the media to use this incident against Russell.
Like, "see, we told you so. We tried to help, but...."
"DHB had hands of stone last season, but he is working his butt off to improve."
With Russell, the Raiders whiffed badly on character (which greatly diminished his physical skills).
With DHB, the Raiders whiffed badly on talent. This kid did nothing in college to suggest he was a top-10 pick in the draft.
IMO, the 1st round selections of both Russell and DHB are indicative of the Raiders lack of due diligence in scouting and drafting.
NYRaider, I don't see it that way at all. You can suspect someone of drug use, but without proof you can't publicly say they have a problem unless you want to open yourself up to a law suit.
But if you're reasonably sure, and the person refuses to seek help or admit to the problem, your only remedy is to cut the person loose. And then all you can say when the person subsequently goes south is, "well, we offered help but it wasn't accepted."
This is going to be true for any employer, not just the Raiders.
And it appears that you're sticking with the DHB is an absolute bust after ONE season meme. Okay, stick with that. Let's find out.
Why does DHB have to be an "absolute bust" to be a bad pick?
He might be a bust. He might be serviceable. Or he might be Pro Bowler. We shall see.
At this point, I'm just hoping for serviceable.
And if that's all he becomes, it's a bad pick. It's a misuse of value, resources and needs.
Of course, he might prove to be more than that. Go ahead and make the case. But I bet you wouldn't go to Vegas and put your money on it.
Look...You can drag this thing out and try to put blame wherever it's desired but step back for just a moment and take a serious look around the NFL Draft...
Players come out with real noticeable character issues but are still drafted high because their perceived talents/value outweigh the risk in the mines of management...
In this case Russel presented none of those issues prior to the draft...Show me where there were any pre-draft issues about legal problems or attitude...It's still posted on line and I easily found and posted several pre-draft/post draft comments from "07"...
It was just the opposite case and as noted scouts have their hands tied as to what they can question regarding a prospects personal life or family...Management would face those same damn restrictions...
So evaluations are made and weighed against any perceived weaknesses to perceived values and a decision is made based upon need and the desires of that franchise...
And yes it is a "Crap-Shoot"....If you don't believe that look at the "07" class...I posted the "2010" grade given 3 years after and the site for the draft grade as of the time of the draft...Just go down that list and see how many turned upside down and than explain to me how it's an exact science...
The Raiders graded as an A- to B- in "07" but as an "F" in "2010" and with damn good reason...The only bright spots are at "TE" -n- "RB"...A "WR" who shows something from time to time and an "OT" who we hope can develop this year into the player we need along with a "DE" who has had a slight handful of good games at best...
Go look at those other teams and you may be highly surprised...AZ went from the top at #3 to a "D" grade 3 seasons later...Philly was perceived as a loser but are now given a "B+" 3 seasons later...The Rams were praised for their new "DE" but are now given a "D"...Dallas went from a "D" to a "B-"..."KC" from a "B" to "C-"...Miami from "B" to "D-"..."NY" teams from "C" to "A"...49ers from "C" to "A-"...Seattle from "C" to "F"...Tenn from "A" to "C"...
PantyRaider...Now that's allot of shifting around in "Hind-Sight"...
http://sprungonsports.com/2010/04/26/2007-nfl-draft-grades-3-years-later/
http://sports.outsidethebeltway.com/2007/04/2007-nfl-draft-grades/
http://walterfootball.com/draft2007GRADE.php
http://www.docsports.com/2007/nfl-draft-grades.html
NYRaider,
“With DHB, the Raiders whiffed badly on talent.”
Possible. But, I’m willing to withhold final judgment for now based on two things:
1. He is working hard to overcome any deficiencies
2. Receivers started performing better when Russell was benched
From the comments of many of the players, including those on the defense, the Russell experiment was a huge drag on both sides of the ball, physically and mentally.
H
Take, at this point I'm expecting more than serviceable from DHB. He's got the character, the speed and the ability to learn. And he no longer has Russell for a QB. I would gamble on DHB's improvement more than I'd gamble on a belief that Russell was NOT a cause of DHB's trouble.
While folks like to claim that OTA performance means nothing, the fact is that it is definitely an indicator of how much work has been put in in the off season. So my choice is not to bash DHB, but to encourage him.
The draft is a Crap Shoot.
Great. Bring the scouts back home. Kill the expensive travel for interviews and evaluations.
Just buy a dart board. Think of all of the time and money you will save.
Matt Millen, Bill Belichick. No difference in draft skills or track records. How could there be if it's just a Crap Shoot?
Honestly, some of the stuff said here to justify things is truly unreal.
Yeah, hard work and dedication should never be used to evaluate anything.
Blanda, that was an ironic response to PantyRaider's assertion that the draft is a Crap Shoot.
I think one thing that should be recognized is that there is a difference between the drafts of a team that needs EVERYTHING and a team that needs a FEW things.
For teams that merely need to fill a few holes, a bad draft pick can be obscured by the efforts and skills of the rest of the team. For a team that needs everything, nothing is obscured and every defect rings loud.
As this team improves, there will be far less focus on individual draft picks. I also think that the poor play of Russell last season made the team seem much farther away than it actually is. I think the excellent draft and free agency plan employed this season will take the team well beyond what we saw last season.
And if it turns out I'm wrong about this, I'll add my voice to the "fire Cable" crowd, and also to the "GM right away" crowd.
But let's be clear I've always been among those who say that Davis needs a talented executive to prepare for when he is no longer capable. And even most of his detractors admit he's still got it.
yeah but consistency is the key blanda. how do we know davis won't revert back to form next year's draft. oh wait, we don't have a 1st round pick. oh - there might not be a season next year... my point is, right now it's a good offseason. but let's see if davis can stay in this "mode" instead of his usual egomaniac mode. i'd like to see him string together a few offseasons like this one.
as for dhb, yeah he had a bad 1st year but he's putting in the work and i'm looking forward to seeing the improvement in the fall.
Scorpio, the point I've been making since last season is that the real Al Davis has been away. Since well before the Gruden years he backed way off the control he exercised over the team in earlier years. And that was part of the reason I was one of the people agreeing that a GM was required.
Over about the last four years Davis has been reassuming control of key decisions. If you examine the kind of moves the Raiders made in the 70's through the 80's, his moves over the last four are more in line with the things Davis knows to prefer. He hasn't been moving away from himself, he's becoming more like himself.
Unless you really want to believe that ALL of the positives have come from Cable.
Take,
In many ways the draft is a "crap shoot".
One of Murphy's Laws of Technology states, "Even under the most rigorusly controlled environment the organism will do as it damn well pleases."
The scouting, interviews, combines, wonderlick and such are there to assist in making informed dedisions.
Problem is, you ain't going to get them all right. There are probably more first round disappointments than Pro Bowlers.
Even the best wiff every now and then, except they keep it to a minimum.
The biggest wrench thrown into the draft the last 20 years is reduction to 7 rounds and underclassmen. The extra year helps evaluate players better. The addtional rounds allowed teams to find those gems in later rounds and lock in specific players to develop.
JMNLHSO
H
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BR said,
"Scorpio, the point I've been making since last season is that the real Al Davis has been away. Since well before the Gruden years he backed way off the control he exercised over the team in earlier years. And that was part of the reason I was one of the people agreeing that a GM was required."
So what happened during this time period? Was it not Davis' sole responsibility to find an executive to support the Raiders endeavors IF he wasn't going to be directly involved?
Over about the last four years Davis has been reassuming control of key decisions. If you examine the kind of moves the Raiders made in the 70's through the 80's, his moves over the last four are more in line with the things Davis knows to prefer. He hasn't been moving away from himself, he's becoming more like himself.
Unless you really want to believe that ALL of the positives have come from Cable."
Wow... a lot to digest, calibrate, and discuss.
Whether Davis is intimately involved (micro-managing, wearing all the hats) or not (macro-managing, delegating, hiring capable support staff to include personnel, operations, etc.), you simply can't have it both ways.
In other words, you are blaming the poor years when he wasn't involved. My response is that he was asleep at the wheel IF he wasn't involved while at the same time didn't delegate to capable people.
If he is heavily involved, as you say the past 4 years, than he needs to have the time, energy, and accountability for what happens.
By all reasonable standards the last 4 years have been a complete failure excluding this offseason. Your opinion seems to be that we should be grateful that Davis has had 1 good offseason over the past 8 and now he has suddenly found the magical formula from the 70's-80's. Just wondering BR, share some examples by what you mean by "If you examine the kind of moves the Raiders made in the 70's through the 80's, his moves over the last four are more in line with the things Davis knows to prefer."
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This comment has been removed by the author.
Part of the so-called crap shoot is making educated guesses.
DHB did nothing in college to warrant even a first round pick, let alone top-10.
The idea that he fit a pro-style offense is a farse. The numbers aren't there.
There are probably over two dozen WRs drafted in DHB's class that outperformed DHB last year.
Let's not kid ourselves, many of them will continue to do so on a regular basis.
Many here said 40 rec would be expected of DHB his first year.
The magic number was 9.
So is 40 rec the benchmark in his second year? I'll take the under.
If the draft isn't a Sure Thing, that doesn't make it a Crap Shoot by default.
Of course it's fraught with risk. Of course everyone makes bad picks at some point.
But to suggest that it's all just a Crap Shoot, and that teams therefore have no control over their draft destiny, is ludicrous. And it's enabling.
Sorry, it's not all blindfolds and darts.
When the Raiders are good, it's because we're smarter than everyone else. The Raiders outsmarted the league for a long time.
But when the Raiders are bad...it's a matter of astrology? Full moons? Blame it on the media? Black cats?
Why can't we just accept the fact that we were smarter for a long time, then we got dumber, and now hopefully we're getting smarter again?
Why must we always play intellectual Twister?
Owning up (no pun originally intended) to 7 years of pure ineptitude, poor decisions, and bad performance is the only way to set us on a better course.
Blaming poor results on "the crapshoot of the draft", not having the resources to make informed decisions, the whim of an owner who is sometimes "not involved enough" and other times "too involved", bad luck, etc. is nothing more than the worst case of excuse making and enabling.
At what point is about scoreboard results and all of the required efforts that define the true essence of competition?
I don't care how it gets done but whether it gets done. It = win.
07/08/2010 Released LB Isaiah Ekejiuba
The Raiders hired Craig Dickenson to replace Aaron Pelch as the assistant special teams coordinator. He will work under special teams coordinator John Fassel.
Dickenson spent the past eight years working with the Calgary Stampeders in the Canadian Football League.
Dickenson, 38, also has coached with the San Diego Chargers and several other colleges.
"RT"...
Why are you so hung-up on a freakin damn word like "Crap-Shoot"...Now you go to great lengths to define it in a way that befits you while also saying...
----------------------------------
If the draft isn't a Sure Thing, that doesn't make it a Crap Shoot by default.
----------------------------------
Now go back and many of you talk like it's a sure thing this season with the "LB" at #8...The reality is we just don't know yet and that makes it a "Crap-Shoot"...Hit-or-Miss...Risk Management...Educated Guess...Or whatever damn term you want to describe it with...I simply used the term most frequently applied to the NFL draft...
"Crap-Shoot"...a risky and uncertain venture;
Now I do believe that pretty well describes the NFL Draft...You risk your pick and half your teams cap $$$ on a prospect that you hope will produce and develop into the next "PB"er at his intended position...And of all those 1st rd selections how many ever do....Meanwhile you are at risk of torment from the fans and "Mediot"s if that selection fails to produce as desired and especially it the pick occurred high in that 1st rd....
Now what about this does NOT fit that definition...
a risky and uncertain venture;
So now go look at your poster boy in "NE"....
"07" grade as posted in "2010" 3 seasons after...."C-"....
Now as posted in "07"...
"D"...
Grade given on 5/1/07: A-
New England (B)
Depending upon who's grades you want to use....This from 3 different sites making future projections after the draft that season...
Now do you want to argue against that final grade give now 3 seasons after...Have at it...You want to post how they were still better than us...Have at it...But in the end even your poster-boy failed to produce satisfactorily that yr...
PantyRaider...It Is What It Is!!!/_
So here is how I described it...
----------------------------------
So evaluations are made and weighed against any perceived weaknesses to perceived values and a decision is made based upon need and the desires of that franchise...
----------------------------------
And this is what you said...
----------------------------------
If the draft isn't a Sure Thing,
----------------------------------
Now really how freakin different are those 2 statements...In reality now not twisted up with some freakin emotions...
PantyRaider...This Is Why Stupid Arguments Get Started!!!/_
Why must we always play intellectual Twister?
Yes "RT"...Why is that...
PantyRaider...I've Been Questioning That For Sometime Now!!!!/_
"CJ"...
Interesting now hold that thought...
"RT" said this...
I'm not going to blame Mel Kiper and NY Raider or myself for the Raiders whiffing on Russell.
But in the past some of you talked about "Tough Love" and using this board as a loud speaker to get a point across to Al while also promoting withdrawn support until your given what is desired...
Than you post that we are...
excuse making and enabling.
Now I have a problem balancing all that on my scale...You either had a voice or you didn't...You either supported or you didn't...
How do you accuse some of us as being "Enablers" while at the same time removing yourselves from any and all responsibilities...
PantyRaider...Make Absolutely No Sense To Me!!!!/_
Just some pretty words I suspect!!!...
Apparently, Dickenson, was hired in April.
Maybe the Raiders were too busy chronicling and prognosticating the greatest of DHB to bother releasing the news that they had hired some help to improve their failing ST.
Although, Dickenson's resume doesn't sound too impressive. But then again, neither is John Fassal's.
Meanwhile, Isaiah Ekejiuba, a core ST player, has been cut. But Sam Williams is still a Raider.
Neither move was announced by the Raiders.
Some things never change.
Two possible reasons for not reporting either move.
(A) Raiders PR (website) staff is incompetent.
(B) Al Davis still has the unsigned PR authorization on his desk, buried along with the authorization to post on their transaction page the re-signing of Chris Johnson.
Calico,
“By all reasonable standards the last 4 years have been a complete failure excluding this offseason.”
I would disagree, but it’s probably nitpicking. I would say last offseason was pretty good. DHB aside (and I’m still withholding final judgment), it was a decent draft (Shaughnessy, Murphy and Myers were decent pickups and jury is still out on DHB and Mitchell).
There were also positives from last season. It was shown this team can compete with proper QB play and leadership.
The two years prior, I’m inclined to agree.
By the way, “Owning up”, if memory serves, when the projector was turned off I do believe Al Davis accepted responsibility when queried by reporters. And, things have been markedly different since then in management actions. This is the year it should translate to the field.
NYRaider,
“educated guesses” they are still guesses.
“Maybe the Raiders were too busy chronicling and prognosticating the greatest of DHB to bother releasing the news that they had hired some help to improve their failing ST.”
Good one!!!! Try looking at the article again OBJECTIVELY. It was NOT a press release by the Raiders. It was an article by a reporter for the “Great Falls Tribune” and was basically an interview of the guy complete with a picture of him and his father. He went to the University of Montana. You know, hometown boy makes good stuff.
Hell, Willie Brown is still listed on the website and I believe he announced his retirement back in February. So, they maybe didn’t run to the press to announce the hiring of an assistant coach for an assistant coach. Big Fat Hairy Deal.
But, actually it appears as a one liner in an internet article dated April, 25th. So the info was out there. Maybe the press said Big Fat Hairy Deal.
Take,
Hey, I fully accept that we were smarter for a long time. But, at the same time I’m not going to say we were stupid when the real “sure thing” in the draft turned out to not be so sure. Or, a first round DT makes the Pro Bowl his first two years then decides drugs and lethargy are more important. Something that seems to be a common theme with instant millionaires, and not just with the Raiders.
But, yes, we’ve had some real head scratchers over the years.
“Blame it on the media? Black cats?”
Naw, I blame it on Raider Cat (tic).
“And it's enabling.
So, how can you enable something you have zero input to? Last time I checked my messages I didn’t get a voice mail from Alameda wanting my opinion. If they had we would have never had Moss, Sapp, Hall or a few others on the team.
So just how are WE enabling? To enable something implies you have some control over or input to the situation. Maybe I need to check my email. Yeah, that’s the ticket, Al was emailing me.
H
This comment has been removed by the author.
Take,
Strangest thing. I clicked publish, got a weird message then it posted twice. I deleted the first one.
H
PantyRaider, I'm sorry, I just can't follow all of your accusatory riddles. I'm trying.
H, you and I both know that the Raiders got operationally dumber, leading to a historic decline and the worst stretch in NFL history.
If you'll just allow yourself to admit it, you'll feel much better. No more yoga poses.
Even if we buy Blanda's theory, that our troubles really began when Davis got recklessly uninvolved. Well, that's not too smart, is it?
Furthermore, let's buy Blanda's theory that we began to turn it around when Davis stepped up his involvement "four" years ago, which includes the stupidest season in Raiders history, the 2008 season, the year of The Grudge and the Hall and Walker signings.
It's not a whiff here or there, it's a sustained series of whiffs, the kind that separates the losers from the winners.
So we got dumb. It happens to a lot of organizations and companies. They lose their compass. They lose institutional knowledge or key personnel. The leader gets distracted. Whatever.
But it can be turned around, and it can become smarter.
Trust me, you'll all feel better if you just accept that a sustained stretch in which we've lost roughly 75% of our games is built on a ton of bad decisions for which the organization and Mr. Davis are responsible.
What's the big deal? It happened. The record speaks for itself. Just as it did when we were outsmarting the NFL.
H -
"NYRaider,
“educated guesses” they are still guesses."
So you lump together good guesses and bad guesses (i.e., dartboard stuff).
Until this year, the Raiders recently have demonstrated their version of Russian Roulette for Top-10 draft picks.
Picking Eugene Monroe, Michael Orher or even Michael Crabtree over DHB would have been supremely better choices for the Raiders last year.
IMO, the only thing keeping DHB from being as big a draft miss as Russell is his attitude (which doesn't win games) and his slightly lower pay scale (but not by much).
"Whether Davis is intimately involved (micro-managing, wearing all the hats) or not (macro-managing, delegating, hiring capable support staff to include personnel, operations, etc.), you simply can't have it both ways."
Both ways? A couple of things I've said Calico (Mr. Bothways).
I've said that even if Davis hired a GM, you'd still blame Davis for anything bad that happened on the team. You assured me that wasn't true, and that if Davis did his best to find the right man for the job, you'd give him due credit.
I've also said that Gruden/Allen left the team with nothing but aging stars on the verge of retirement, and no developing players coming up.
The fault, according to you, belongs to Al Davis because he's the owner, and it's his job to insure continued development - even though he had a coach getting the players he wanted and a GM signing personnel.
Please explain. You seem to insist on having it both ways.
By the way, Calico, I know that you will tell me that your views are perfectly compatible. I want to see the Rube Goldberg invention you create to get there.
Gruden and Allen were stunningly brilliant, as displayed by their ability to win a Super Bowl with Dungy's team, and then build a continually declining juggernaught for several years.
I know that you will tell me they left a team on the verge of a Super Bowl behind - even though it was then destined for failure after the key players all retired.
Yes, the seven years of losing all came after Gruden and Allen were gone. Just like Tampa Bay will likely go through seven years of losing after they've left Tampa.
Ah!...No your not...
Now what confused you...Was it this dictionary definition...
"Crap-Shoot"...a risky and uncertain venture;
Or was it my application of that definition to the NFL Draft...Explain what about this you don't get...
You risk your pick and half your teams cap $$$ on a prospect that you hope will produce and develop into the next "PB"er at his intended position...And of all those 1st rd selections how many ever do....Meanwhile you are at risk of torment from the fans and "Mediot"s if that selection fails to produce as desired and especially if the pick occurred high in that 1st rd....
Well now...Lets add...
The "07" NFL draft has produced only 8 "PB"er -w- only 2 from the top 10 picks...That's 25%...Or we could say 75% have failed to produce at the high level expected of them and 80% of the top 10 picks have failed to produce at that high level which is where "SOME" claim there needs to be more certainty/scrutiny in the picks...And with all those "Sure Things" on the board...
80% failure...My! My!...Now how can that be...Oh! Ya! That was the bottom 1/4 or the NFL making those picks...I forgot...So the top tier teams send false scouts to lie to the bottom tier teams so they can pick the real best players later...OK!...Now I see how that works...Ya! Right!!!!....
Maybe it was this that confused you...
So now go look at your poster boy in "NE"....
"07" grade as posted in "2010" 3 seasons after...."C-"....even your poster-boy failed to produce satisfactorily that yr...
Go get your crayon so I can draw ya a picture...
In the end everyone makes mistakes so in reality it is by far a "Risky Uncertain Venture"...
So now I'm still waiting for an answer to your posted question as follows...
Why must we always play intellectual Twister?
PantyRaider...Prolley Due To Your Rubber Walls -n- All Those Bent-Spoons On The Turf!!!/_
This comment has been removed by the author.
Take,
It did it again. Weird message and double post. I deleted the second one.
H
NYRaider,
One more thing:
"So you lump together good guesses and bad guesses (i.e., dartboard stuff)."
Well... yeah.
It just depends on how good you are with your darts. I used to be pretty good with mine. Haven't used them in a few years so I'm a bit rusty.
H
Take,
By the way, I know you can't controll the way the site is acting. Just wanted you to know why all the deletes are showing up.
H
Playing "Intellectual Twister" while being "Intellectually Honest"....WoW!!!....That was right before you demanded that someone admits something they never indicated they ever believed because...Well because you said they knew it was true and if they just admit it everything would be just fine-n-dandy...
WoW!!!...Is that some kind of reverse therapy to turn a man inside out...
Well now that you have us all lying on your couch under a spell and indoctrinated with your ideas would you mind taking us to our happy place one more time...
PantyRaider...The Damn "SB"!!!/_
The NFL draft IS a crap shoot. Some people are luckier than others or have better control of the dice - just like craps.
A fact that many folks want to leave behind is that Russell was, and is, loaded with talent. His talent has NEVER been questioned before 2009, while some choose to rewrite recent history.
Russell's problem is that he's self medicated and doesn't care. He doesn't care because of the drug. The drug he uses to self medicate is not on the NFL or team watch list.
Did Russell show signs of not caring before the draft. I would think that any logical person would make the leap that if Russell put himself in a position to be a top ten draft pick (and he would have gone in the top ten whether the Raiders picked him or not), he likely cares enough to put himself in that position.
So the reality is that Russell at least initially cared. And we really don't know what made him start medicating and stop caring. Blaming that on the Raiders or Al Davis is completely absurd.
When the stupid statement is made that the Raiders sucked, and that destroyed his career, the commenter forgets that nearly EVERY #1 pick goes to a crappy team.
You know, I guess if you want to take that approach, Leon Bender was Al Davis' fault as well. How could he have missed a rare medical condition present in Bender? How could he have allowed Bender to drop dead one morning in his bathroom?
The excuse making has begun.
His attorney says he was "targeted" by the police.
Ok, no one, I repeat, no one held a gun to his head and made him buy or consume a pharmacutical (on multiple occasions evidently) illegally.
JaMarcus, here's a tip. Next time just say no. When someone else in the room is doing it, leave.
If your friends are trying to get you to do it, here's another clue. They're not your friends.
H
One more thing regarding Russell...
His lawyer says that Russell will beat the wrap, and he's now out on bond. It's very likely he will go home and ease his troubles with "syrup." His lawyer will not send him to rehab, because if that got out it would add credence to the prosecution's charges.
In this case, I think his lawyer is not acting in Russell's best interest. I think the way I might handle it would be to tell Russell, "You're facing CRIMINAL charges, so I want you to CARE! Get yourself into drug rehab, and I'll see what I can do to get the charges dropped. If you weren't specifically being targeted, there is a chance that we can make a deal if you agree to testify against your supplier."
If successful, Russell, by being contrite and working hard to get his career back, could come back from this. But I think it is very possible that Russell will never appear in the NFL again, and his money will completely run out before he reaches the ripe old age of 28.
There is so much material here, Balanda's reasoning is beyond belief. He comes around to a conclusion on the Russell matter = to Leon Bender death. He uses the death of a player to excuse Al Davis from drafting a failure named Russell. What kind of person does that? He also uses the death of Russell's uncle to try and cover the reasoning for Russell's decline. Again, using death and personal problems to excuse Al Davis. There are no depths when you are an Al Davis loyalist.
___"Did Russell show signs of not caring before the draft."
Yes he did, many pic's and stories of him being overweight at the COMBINE. One had to wonder what they were getting when they interviewed (?) him? He didn't come across as intelligent and that is one of the main ingredients needed at QB. Any athlete who shows up to planned workouts out of shape, it is a huge red flag. He wasn't really known until his final games at LSU, showed lack of commitment, it was a dumb pick. Just like DHB.
___"So the reality is that Russell at least initially cared. And we really don't know what made him start medicating and stop caring. Blaming that on the Raiders or Al Davis is completely absurd"
Here Balanda asserts that the "reality" is he initially cared. But, when he drank codeine he no longer cared. How are you jumping from transporting codeine to being a codeine addict? Many players have been drinkers and been "caring". Many smoked weed, many did speed, I'll guess that more than a few players have tried or do drink this "drank", most of them care. Usually those who don't care are that way from the get go. Russell showed signs before the draft.
JONES
PR, "Now I have a problem balancing all that on my scale...You either had a voice or you didn't...You either supported or you didn't...
How do you accuse some of us as being "Enablers" while at the same time removing yourselves from any and all responsibilities..."
-> I had a voice (opinion).
-> I support the team (since 1970)
-> My "responsibilities" are to be a dedicated, loyal fan which I have fulfilled 100% for 40 years and counting.
What's your point, PR?
CJ, "By all reasonable standards the last 4 years have been a complete failure excluding this offseason.”
H, "I would disagree, but it’s probably nitpicking. I would say last offseason was pretty good. DHB aside (and I’m still withholding final judgment), it was a decent draft (Shaughnessy, Murphy and Myers were decent pickups and jury is still out on DHB and Mitchell)."
This is where we will have to agree to disagree.
2009 5-11
2008 4-12
2007 5-11
2006 2-14
You can talk about guys like Shaunnessey, Murphy, DHB, Myers, Mitchell all you want and their potential til' you are blue in the face but the reality is that besides a guy like Zach Miller, the vast majority of players who have been selected in this 4 year period have not produced (yet)
BR, "I've said that even if Davis hired a GM, you'd still blame Davis for anything bad that happened on the team. You assured me that wasn't true, and that if Davis did his best to find the right man for the job, you'd give him due credit."
I'm still waiting for Davis to hire executive support. If he hired someone who was qualified but it didn't work out, I would at least give Davis the credit of trying to find the support the organization desperately needs. As I've said a million times and will continue to say until my ashes are spread in some ocean off of Thailand, Davis deserves the lion's share of blame when the team is mired in ineptitude and deserves the lion's share of credit when the team shines. He is the key decision maker.
BR, "I've also said that Gruden/Allen left the team with nothing but aging stars on the verge of retirement, and no developing players coming up.
The fault, according to you, belongs to Al Davis because he's the owner, and it's his job to insure continued development - even though he had a coach getting the players he wanted and a GM signing personnel."
Davis in partnership with Gruden and Allen devised a plan to acquire talented aging vets to open up a 3-5 year window to reach for the ultimate prize. I give Davis/Gruden/Allen credit for a very successful run. When the aging vets wheels fell off which was a forgone conclusion, and after Gruden departed, it was Davis' sole responsibility to hire a coaching staff and rebuild the team in earnest as early as 2003. This rebuilding effort was a complete whiff for 7 years and counting. I would have been fine with subpar records in 2003, 2004, even 2005 if we had a consistent, executed plan to rebuild the team with solid drafts and selective FA acquisitions. Instead, we have suffered conntless bad drafts, personnel moves, and high priced malcontents. It isn't until the past 2 years that we seem to be following a plan to truly go about building a TEAM.
BR, don't get things twisted. Saying I'm having it both ways is simply ridiculous. I have been consistent in my message for many, many years ... as a fan I can be patient if I see that the foundation is being built in a judicious way. I have been very complimentary of this past offseason.
"CJ"...
The "Point-Counter-Point" was in reaction to you calling some of us "Enablers" as though we actually have some power relative to this team while at the same time "RT" has been excusing all of you from any and all liability for anything done by this same team...
Now that simply doesn't balance...
Now remembering back it was you -n- "RT" and a few others who pimped the idea that a stand needed to be made to let old Al know the fans just aren't holding to this crap and this board was used as that platform as if "SOME" here believed they had a legitimate voice with the franchise...But now those same individuals remove themselves from any and all responsibility while at the same time trying to hold the rest of us responsible by referring to us as "Enablers"...
Now how about explaining exactly how you come to the conclusion that we were responsible for enabling anything at all that was done by the Raiders...
Because we attended games despite the losing records or supported the franchise and management despite your protest while wearing our black garb...
Other than giving us the tickets we paid for...Or the clothing that we purchased...Or in my case in the past allowing me to be connected threw the "Raiders Booster Club" and on hand as security at Raider events or attending draft-day parties and such...Just what the hell do you suppose we are doing and receiving from that franchise...
PantyRaider...Enabling What!!!/_
It's the lowest form of humanity that attacks a man's family (Mothers/Wives/Children) because he can't hold his own in direct confrontation....That's a fuckin COWARD...
Now you dare to accuse another of using family deaths to justify what you perceive to be bad decisions...
You are one sick damn lying worthless BITCH!!!...And furthermore...
A: Russell has unheard-of stature and bulk, a howitzer for an arm and scored a solid 24 on the Wonderlic intelligence test.
Russell was a somewhat pudgy 6-foot-6 and 265 pounds.
Now that was from the damn combine you freakin idiot...He's was a big man and the words "Somewhat Pudgy" were used in comparison to Quinn who was trim and cut and 39#s smaller...
PantyRaider...Yo Mama Should've Had An Abortion!!!/_
PR -
Many of the posters on this board have continued to make lame ass excuses for the worst stretch of NFL losing in the entire history of the league. Why? I don' know. Instead of calling you an enabler, perhaps the more appropriate term is excuse-maker supereme.
Many posters have voiced their opinions about what has ailed the organization. Honest, heartfelt opinions are worth debating.
None of us are responsible in any shape or form for the team's results or actions taken by the origanization. All of us are only fans. I'm not interested in having a debate about what qualifies as supporting the team because it is irrelevant.
Let's not forget one obvious fact. This is merely a Raiders blog with a comments section for fans to voice their opinions. Nothing more, nothing less. In the grand scheme of things and in terms of affecting change, it is meaningless.
I look at blogs and fan forums as a platform to discuss anything and everything about the Raiders.
Raiders sign third-, fourth-round selections Veldheer, Campbell
"CJ"...
Point accepted and Thanks...
"Excuse Maker" could apply but the term "Enabler" absolutely does not...
Personally...It's not an attempt to excuse anything at all and that's exactly what excuses are used for...
I speak for myself but suspect the others agree that what we attempt to do is find a legitimate reasoning for the decisions that have been made and the resulting effects without believing the crap published by "SOME" that it's just "Old-Age"-n-Feeble Minds...Quite simply some of us are already of advanced age and don't believe that crap due to personnel experience...Now where was I going with that...Oh! Ya!...
Maybe it's a generational thing but "BabyBoomers" try to gain understanding threw reasoning on every little point...Reconstruct the issue and play it back a few times until it makes sense...
Well...Now come to think about it...Remembering back...That's what a "Sit-In" was all about...Kind of an inversion on the "Circle of Old Men" as the young tried to follow that same format under the influence...
PantyRaider...Ha! Ha!...Pass That Bowl Bro!!!/_
Not sure is this was ment to be positive but I would take it that way...
# Davis: The Raiders patriarch always — always — provides riveting speeches. His letter-reading dismissal of Kiffin in 2008 was stunning, and so is his command of history (see: Raiders, pro football, global issues). What could set him off like Gilbert: criticizing any aspect of the Raiders, or, for that matter, praising any aspect of the Raiders.
PantyRaider...Eternal Place In Sports History!!!/_
I won't back down from "enabling," and I don't agree with CJ that our opinions are meaningless.
The Raiders called me last winter, as a lapsed season ticket holder. They asked for my thoughts. I keep hearing that they don't care what the fans think. Then why did they call me? Answer that, please. I presume I was one of hundreds, and likely thousands (given the empty seats), that they called.
I told them what I thought. I did not excuse, nor ENABLE.
Everyone has a voice. And every sound makes a noise, however small. The smallest pebble in the pond makes a ripple.
So if you are excusing, you are enabling.
What some of you don't realize is that your excusing (enabling) insults, rather than exalts, Mr. Davis.
How can you give him credit for our future success if you tie yourself into knots by denying him chief responsibility for our recent misfortunes?
You can't. But I know it won't stop you. Such is what passes for "logic" around here lately.
"RT"...
OK...That's just fine...So you are the non sportive over critical motivation killer who was a distraction in the front office and responsible for the Raiders continuesd fall from success...
Oh! Ya!....Now I see how that works...Fans like you are rersponsible for our eventual fall from grace and the years of dongeon dwelling that we are attempting to recover from...
Not only that but as a direct result of your financial stinginess the teams hands have been tied while trying to sign suitable "FA"s in a competitive market...
Well I certainly hope your proud of yourself for all that you have done to derail my football team and than you have the audacity to ask...NO...To DEMAND that some of us admit to what we do not believe or support and join in with you in your perpetual assaults upon the ownership and management of our favorite football franchise...
Well all I can say to all of that is...
Wake-up boy...You just ain't all that...You answered a few silly questions from the marketing department and think with your direct line to the "MGP" that you had a positive affect on what Al Davis was doing while the rest of us who continued to support had a negative affect on what Al Davis did...W0W!!!...No that is some fantasy...
PantyRaider...Now I Knew You Were Off-Kilter But Until Now Didn't Understand Why!!!!/_
Dammit anyway "RT"...
I just couldn't leave this topic alone because the more I considered your very foolish reply to me the more and more foolish it became...I mean...Are for for real...I mean "Really" for real....
So when did you 1st start to entertain such feelings of grandeur...I didn't detect that from you early on but than we were on the same side of the fence back when...
So this sorta explains your reluctance to ever admit error or a mistake...Fight threw ridicules arguments one after another persistently/perpetually even when you have run completely out of support for your foolishness and your facing overwhelming established evidence against it...
Huh!...But than you wont consider the evidence anyway but just avoid the matter instead while pretending some sort of foolish victory which only you can see followed up with claims later that virtually everyone was on board with your ideas...Interesting solutions/delusions...
So evidently you now believe that you somehow had enough positive effect that old Al is changing the way he approaches the draft and "FA"s and who knows what else...Well that's just my assumption because you haven't actually started to claim that glory/fame just yet but I perceive it's close at hand in your mind...
Quite frankly I do believe that "CJ"s assessment of our power as fans was very realistic...So now I will personally invite anyone who cares to simply state their perception of the issue...
Question:
Is "RT"s perception of the power of fans realistic or is the assessment presented by "CJ" and supported by me a more realistic view...
Refer to "CJ"s last post to me regarding the power of fans and the follow-up by "RT" as he disagrees and states that he continues to hold us responsible for all that "Enabiling" horse crap...
Let the "Sit-In" begin!!!...
PantyRaider...WoW!...Just like old times!!!/_
Umm, PantyRaider, I didn't call myself a big fish. In fact, I compared myself and other fans to "the smallest pebble."
If I had told the Raiders representative, who asked me my opinion, that everything was just peachy in Raider land, I would have been enabling, even if it was on the smallest of scales. It's as simple as that.
Now, what if every single fan on the call list took your marching orders not to criticize the Raiders and to be a personal ATM for the team? What if thousands of fans gave the Raiders enabling feedback?
We all have a voice. I choose not to enable with mine.
I like how you dismiss it as "silly questions from the marketing department," as if it's some rogue outfit operating right under Mr. Davis's nose. Sometimes I think you hate Mr. Davis, you insult him so frequently.
So again I ask: If the Raiders don't care what the fans think, why do they make a substantial investment (through staffing, calls, surveys, information processing, etc.) in asking fans what they think?
Please don't skirt that question again. Or this one:
How can you give Mr. Davis credit for our future success if you tie yourself into knots by denying him chief responsibility for our recent misfortunes?
You are obsessed with proving me wrong about something. Is my track record that good?
Have at it. Let's focus on two or three of my wrongs. Please state them succinctly so I understand. I've always said I get things wrong. But if I don't think I'm wrong, I'm not going to be bullied into saying it. So I can't say in advance that I'll agree with you, but let's give it a try. Let's get the bees out of your bonnet.
Enabling, consists of anyone who supports an organization or system that is not in the best interest of WINNING. That includes buying tickets, trying to quiet descent and changing realities of the situation. Does enabling happen on this site? You bet your ass it does.
Does anyone think the billboards had no affect? Does anyone think that empty seats has no affect? Does anyone think that Raider fans who spread the word that the Org is not working in their best interests does not have an affect? Does anyone really believe that the internet and all the communication it gives us, doesn't have an affect on the mood of the Nation?
Why do you think the "crew" comes on here and defends Al Davis to no end? It's because they are trying to convince Raider fans that Al Davis has been and still is doing the right things for WINS. They use the excuses and twist the truth's to try and change reality of the Raiders situation. The say that speaking out about the reality of the Raiders situation will "do no good", hoping that fans will just give up and accept what we are fed by their god, Al Davis. Yes, it is enabling and they are guilty as charged.
Once Raider fans feel they have no voice or no power to change a situation....to say it doesn't exist is really giving up. Do people really have a voice in what is happening in America today? People blogging on the internet has no influence on how people see America today? Talk about giving up, jeez.
JONES
"I won't back down from "enabling," and I don't agree with CJ that our opinions are meaningless."
I guess I'm looking at opinions more in the context of this blog and other Raider fan forums.
What H, PR, BR, RT, NYR, CJ, RaiderCat, Jonesy, etc says or debates, isn't going to affect change. It is nothing more than a way to vent, share ideas, entertain ourselves, and discuss and debate anything and everything about the Raiders.
As far as how we support the team and spend our discretionary income, this does have a direct effect on the business side of the organization yet is difficult to quantify in a meaningful, tangible way.
The Raiders business isn't too much different from any other business in terms of supply and demand of a product. If the Raiders are playing outstanding football, create a fan friendly venue, have marketable players, it is easy to suspect that the demand for tickets naturally goes up since there is a cap on the total number of tickets available for each game.
In my opinion, a marketing rep. who contacts a fan and takes a survey is basically on a sales call. Of course the survey data is compiled and recommendations are made that could impact the profitability of the franchise. The marketing rep. was in essence gathering info. to make a more effective sales pitch to RT at a later date.
"What H, PR, BR, RT, NYR, CJ, RaiderCat, Jonesy, etc says or debates, isn't going to affect change. It is nothing more than a way to vent, share ideas, entertain ourselves, and discuss and debate anything and everything about the Raiders."
I disagree. Take this site for instance, if there weren't a couple of posters on here a few years ago that told the reality of the Raider situation, this site would still be singing the praises of Al Davis like the rest of the "crew".
The snowball began and now most fans see the reality of the Raiders. I'm not saying it's the sole doing, not even close, it's part of the process though.
When you feel powerless, you are and you will never change a thing. If the fans don't speak out, by whatever means and accept whatever is dished to them, that's wrong in my book. The fans deserve a well run Org, the fans deserve a competitive team. When it isn't there for a long period, any way possible, show it is not acceptable. This site and others are part of that process, no matter how small.
JONES
My point is that enabling behavior is enabling behavior, regardless of the degree of impact, big or small or collective.
If me and all of the thousands of other fans receiving those calls (or writing on these boards) take PantyRaider's marching orders of being a personal ATM for the team and never criticizing the team, it is enabling. If it's not enabling, what is it?
Atoms make molecules, molecules make matter, etc. I may just be an atom. But I won't be an enabling atom.
"RT"...
#1 I don't beat the drum you are posting about...No Marching Orders...
I have been critical myself but I split that between the parties involved and try to pay it out to their own area of responsibility...Thus a coach takes responsibility for coaching and the management takes responsibility for management and I don't follow some pre-ordained proclamation that one person wears all the hats...Period and consistent...
Also as you should remember I posted I have been down your road before during the Bugle year and regret removing myself from the team and attendance/support because I was up-set with what I saw on that field...I'm not going to do that to myself again...Why should I...I'm just the loser because I lose all my joy of being a Raider fan which is far to dear to me to sacrifice for some perceived activist plot thinking I'm doing something to make a difference...Revolt is stupid most of the time...As is mutiny...
So to each his own but don't push your "HateTrip" on me by accusing me of being an "Enabler" while excusing yourself from any and all responsibility...There in lays the problem here...I can speak about what I do or think without demanding that everyone march to my drum beat....Evidently you can not...It's your way or else and I for one will never cater to that march or your demands...
Now as far as your other questions...
"CJ" answered it very well and I'm in agreement with what he posted...In the marketing realm it's known as "Over Coming Objections" and businesses go to great lengths to teach that and perform it very well...You are a perpetual $$$ and a desirable thing to them...But your personal opinion is in file 13 and of very little to no consequence...Virtually worthless...
As for the "Future Success" question I already answered that but will show you where...Coaches get credit for coaching and Al gets credit as "MGP"...It's just that simple...There is no struggle at all with this format...I wont post Al Davis for "Coach-of-the-Year" if we make the "PO"s this season and I wont pimp Cable as "GM" either...
Now in clarification we throw allot of little names around on this board and that doesn't bother me in the least...But names like "Mutinous Dogs"/"ChickenLittles"/Doom-n-Gloomers/"IAAF"ers don't accuse anyone of doing what is impossible for them to have done nor do they make accusations that anyone here is responsible for anything that happened in The Raiders front office or on the "GridIron"...Yours do and that's a point of contention...
"CJ" was respectful enough to temper his and make a different choice of words for which I was thankful while you are not...Therefor you are delusional/entertaining fantasies/far too full of yourself to be real...
PantyRaider...Blame Me For What Is Within My Reach Not For That Which Is Outside The Ream Of My Possibilities"!!!/_
Well that explains why you thought your chess match with Mr Davis was actually accomplishing something...
Totally Delusional but I already knew that...
Ah! Right!...So now go tell that to all the Jets fans who have for years and years posted in every conceivable rag and are at every damn draft in force and demanding response from ownership...I have yet to see where it got them anything more than the "Mediot" attention on draft day....They are usually angry at the picks every damn year although I missed it of late due to the lack of availability outside US AirSpace so withhold that opinion for the past 2 drafts...
So "JoneAss" I suppose that explains your constant beating of the drum bashing Al Davis....You think he is actually listening...So your not just "FishPuke" that was responsible for the loss of favor that cost every seaman his life but you would also betray with the "Kiss-o-Death" while pretending to be his fan...
PantyRaider..."JudeAss" The Liar Is How You Shall Become Known!!!!/_
Enabling behavior is enabling behavior.
Enabling: "To allow a way out or excuse for an action."
Goes on here all the time.
And yes, those are your marching orders. You state them frequently.
You are among those who think they can decide who is a true fan and who is not.
I do not give marching orders, and I am not so grandiose as to believe that I get to determine who is a fan and who is not.
Still waiting for my succinct "wrong" list, by the way.
Not intending to get political but sense attention was already drawn to the "Voice-of-America" I decided to seize the opportunity with one small question...
Has all the international internet posting/complaining/years of evidence collecting/letters to politicians/public protest/"Mediot" response/U-Tube vids/foreign political questioning/fire and police reports/totally unexplainable occurrence that raised serious questions/public opinion polls or anything else ever got us a thorough investigation into what really happened "9-11"...
But someone thinks they have a voice....Remarkable....Totally remarkable...
PantyRaider....Now That's The Definition Of Delusional!!!/_
Oh, PantyRaider, nice try. I very clearly compared myself to the smallest pebble, an atom, yet you pounce with your accusations about delusions of grandeur. Typical.
The Raiders ask my opinion (which you say they don't want), and in that transaction, I choose not to enable. If others join me in not enabling, good for them. If there are enough of us, we might be heard. Simple as that.
Nice hijacking attempt, but it failed.
Enabling behavior is enabling behavior.
Well "RT" I don't remember replying that I was going to publish some list so the wait may be prolonged and I'm not sure exactly what you want and it sounds like allot of needless work in an attempt to accomplish what exactly...I just don't know...
Now as to my deciding who is a fan well I suppose that's a matter of opinion and regarding a fan of what...Just like you posting that I'm somehow belittling Al Davis with my continued support is no more than a personal opinion...I believe it's most likely not shared by the one to whom I give my support...I would suspect...So how do you suppose he would view you about now...
But by all means show me where I'm posting "Marching Orders" and I will do my best to correct that...Or explain it in a way that relieves you from any obligations to comply...I wouldn't want to enable you to do something you don't want to do or don't believe in doing/believing/supporting...
PantyRaider...Are You Having A Childish Moment here!!!/_
"RT"...Careful...
If others join me in not enabling, good for them. If there are enough of us, we might be heard. Simple as that.
In the words of "Moby Dick"...
"Helm over sir your traversing dangerous waters with this talk of mutiny"....
PantyRaider...May I Never Be Found To be Standing In Opposition To My Beloved Raiders!!!/_
Well, you've tipped your hand:
Not Enabling = Mutiny.
That pretty much says it all.
I don't know or really care what Al Davis thinks of my opinion. But I doubt he'd buy into the continual excuses you're making for him. If I were him, I'd find it insulting.
As for the "wrong" list, no, it shouldn't be hard at all, since you're continuously yapping at me to admit I'm wrong about something. Seems that it should be an easy burden, if not an obligation, to point to some examples?
RT -
I respect the fact that you gave your honest opinions to the marketing representative and stuck to your convictions. Good for you. I just don't buy into the notion that a survey call will have any meaningful impact on anything that matters to me.
The Raiders organization had your phone number. You had been a loyal ticket holder. You cancelled. The Raiders tried but failed to get you to renew your tickets. Life goes on. Why there is a debate about the significance of this marketing call is beyond me. It is much to do about nothing.
Expressing your opinions ... Deciding your level of fan support ... how you spend your discretionary income ... these are all choices we make. It is called free will.
All I really care about is the Raiders playing the type of winning, inspiring football that makes all of us proud to be fans.
CJ, you are missing my point .
I believe that enabling behavior is enabling behavior, period.
Remember, the discussion was whether or not ENABLING was a justifiable term for what's going on around here with the mind-bending excuses for what's gone down over the past seven years.
So my example about the call was just that--an example. Did I think the guy was going to run upstairs and report my feedback directly to Mr. Davis? Of course not.
I used a small and simple example (a conversation with a representative of the team) of how, in fact, I had an opportunity to ENABLE, and I didn't. One call of thousands. One that didn't go in the enabling category.
You are mistaken if you think I was suggesting that this transaction was significant. I was suggesting that it was an opportunity to enable or not enable, if only at the smallest level. Same with the comments on this blog and your blog and across the Internet.
And if enough people are of the same mind and voice, it can have an impact.
Apparently, tens of thousands of fans were of the same mind in not choosing to subsidize last year's DHB and Russell scholarship tour.
Not a single one of those fans is significant, I'll grant you that.
The question is, if they are all insignificant, how did they manage to become 25,000 strong?
Conversely, how can one conclude that thousands of fans making perennial and absurd and logic-defying excuses for the worst stretch in NFL history is not a collective act of enabling?
____"So "JoneAss" I suppose that explains your constant beating of the drum bashing Al Davis....You think he is actually listening...So your not just "FishPuke" that was responsible for the loss of favor that cost every seaman his life but you would also betray with the "Kiss-o-Death" while pretending to be his fan...____"
WTF, Waste, you are one, dumb, son oh bitch.
When thousands of people are beating those drums, Waste, Al Davis can't help but listen.
I am an Oakland Raider fan, Al Davis happens to be the major influence on the team. Only way I can try to change that is through communication with others, stop giving my dollars to the team etc...simple. I have stated on here many times that I give plenty of thanks to Al Davis for his contribution to the history of the Raiders. But, it has been shown for a very long time that Al Davis is his own worst enemy, that is not my fault. It is crippling the team which cripples the fans who PAY hard earned cash to pay for those players and Org. When a change needs to occur, it's up to the fans to make it happen. Especially if you happen to have a stubborn old man who won't let go.
You equate my frustration with Al Davis as killing deckhands and kisses of death, you are out there, Balanda does the same garbage, that's weird.
JONES
ok guys, put your swords down. here's a nice story by monte poole re: a raider fan friend of his who passed away:
http://www.insidebayarea.com/sports/ci_15487765
Scorpio....
ARRrrrr!....
"JudeAss"....Was that a very weak mind attempting to express itself forcefully...I thought so...
Now didn't your church teach you about Jona-n-Judas...Your the one who's always trying to preach some "TRUTH" around here as if you had any and making personal accusations directed at others families which must have also come from your Sunday upbringing...
Well..I suppose MaMa tried!!!...
Here Here now "RT"...
You already have been given that list a number of times as I copy posted your exact statements and listed them together...The records are all here sense my return so if you can't remember it ya could always go look it up...You did a damn good job of avoiding it repeatedly and than only addressing what you were willing to as you bent all those spoons and moved those rubber walls in order to try to make it appear that they all still apply today...That even though they were in direct opposition to one another...But hay!!!...Who the hell says your scales have to balance...
Far be for me to continue any further attempts to force feed you when your the one who constantly avoids the issues...Just like on this thread...
Where is your proof as to my beating a drum demanding anything as you very recently stated I was doing and I stated if you show it to me I will correct it or explain it so your no longer under any obligation to comply...REMEMBER....
And furthermore...Please take a moment or two to explain yourself about this one...As the accusation goes...
----------------------------------
Enabling: "To allow a way out or excuse for an action."
----------------------------------
Now release from what exactly...I allowed Al Davis a way out of what...
A)...Bad contracts he negotiated...
B)...Piss poor coach hirings perhaps...
C)...Or was it an escape from your damn continued accusations against him...If so I'm damn glad I could assist as if you or anyone else ever had him pined down...
D)...All the above...Damn I'm so powerful in your eyes...
Now as for the "Excuse" portion posted in that...
Do you honestly believe in your wildest imagination that a famous-n-powerful "Maverick" like Mr Davis needs an excuse for anything he chooses to do...When has he ever showed an inclination toward caring what anyone thinks as they try to second guess what he will or won't do...And you think I or anyone on this board has the power to excuse him...Well...All I can suggest there is to ask a man like "H" about all that because I just don't believe we have that power in our present life form...
Now I'm making jest of all your silly accusations because I honestly consider them to be just that...
PantyRaider...Absurd/Ridicules/Unreasoning/Unfounded/Unbelievable/Childish/Delusional Fantasies!!!/_
I know I missed something there but my old mind just wont let me remember what it was...
Scorpio...
Interesting post...I recon I never knew her but have known many many like her and that's what unites us together...That "Raider Luv"...Unyielding Self Sacrificing Perpetual Commitment honored with our "BlackBlood"....
Calico,
Did I miss something? I don’t think you were the one saying others were “enablers”.
And, what you said about debate, vent, etc.
Also, “This is merely a Raiders blog with a comments section for fans to voice their opinions.”
Exactly.
Take,
“I won't back down from "enabling,"
Well I won’t back down from saying you are using the term incorrectly. Please explain how one can enable something they have no control or direct say so?
Sure, someone from ticket sales called. I’m sure many season ticket holders shared their frustrations with the sales staff. But, when one does not renew their seats the sales staff’s mission then becomes finding someone to buy them.
How does a fan, thousands of miles away, watching from their living room or local drinking establishment through a medium that is “equally shared” by all teams enable anything? Where is my control? How do I enable? I’ve stated many times where I disagreed with management decisions. But, no one in management asked me before hand, so how am I enabling?
I don’t give Al Davis the authority to do what he does, he’s the owner. Nor do I provide him the opportunity and the meager resource I provide is shared by all 32 teams. I’m not asked if I want the Raider Package. It’s all or nothing.
Futher, if I disagree with someone who posts here, how is that enabling? If I don’t accept a premise, how is that enabling?
And, where has anyone of we so called “enablers” said everything was peachy in Raider Land? Once again words are being put into mouths.
You want enablers, Linday Lohan’s parents, now that’s enablers.
Except for the record we've had some very positive things happen the past two years. But, we're still stamping feet and holding breaths because people have a difference of opinion. So, we have to put a lable on it.
I think what some leave unsaid is they believe Al Davis no longer cares whether the team wins or not. Otherwise, how could anyone be enabling such bad behavior.
That’s another premise I won’t buy.
H
This comment has been removed by the author.
"Except for the record we've had some very positive things happen the past two years."
Yeah, that nagging record thing. Too bad about that.
I believe that if I go on the Internet and make repeated and absurd excuses for Lindsay Lohan's behavior, then I am engaged in an act of enabling. Sorry, that's what I believe. I don't care if she's listening, if she's a thousand miles away, if anyone's reading my comments, if they comments are changing someone's opinion, or whatever.
All I know is that I will not use my voice to join any potential groundswell of excusing the inexcusable. I won't join the "Lidsay is a victim" crowd. Or the "Al Davis is a victim" crowd.
(And before someone says I'm comparing Mr. Davis to Lindsay Lohan, back away from the ledge. The example is one of how using one's voice to make perennial excuses for someone is an act of enabling).
"I think what some leave unsaid is they believe Al Davis no longer cares whether the team wins or not."
Well, that doesn't describe me. I know he wants to win. The question is, did he want to win more in 2008 than he wanted to beat Lane Kiffin? Did he want to win more in 2009 than he wanted to prove that Russell and DHB were good picks?
Those are legitimate questions.
If you think they're not legitimate, then tell me how carrying the Kiffin grudge into the season, and starting Russell and DHB for so long (especially now that we know that Russell was even worse behind the scenes than we could have expected), increased our chances of winning?
Enable away, amigos.
Someone had better tell Al Davis about that rogue sales outfit operating right under his nose. They must be stopped!
They are spending a ton of money personally contacting thousands of customers and conducting numerous surveys, yet they are not sharing the accumulated data with anyone.
The Raiders are the first company in history to have a sales and marketing department actively seeking feedback on their product from thousands of customers, but not sharing that feedback with their superiors.
The product's sales are down 40%, but the people behind the product, despite funding a campaign seeking feedback, are unaware of the feedback (and if they were aware of it, they still wouldn't want to hear it).
Now that's good business.
RT -
Enabling behavior is enabling behavior ... brilliant!
All kidding aside, my perspective is that the term 'excusing making' is more appropriate term than 'enabling'. It might be splitting hairs on diction but so be it.
Hah!
I think one thing we can both agree on is that the excuse-making has been rampant, and has strained the limits of credulity.
And I'll speak for myself here, but I see the people making such perennial excuses are denying that they are doing it.
Winning 5 or less games for 7 consecutive seasons is ... wait for it ... INEXCUSABLE!
2010 is a fresh start where hopefully the decisions made by management and the performance by the players are squarely focused on winning.
The gorilla on our collective backs keeps getting heavier.
Take,
You go with our definition of enabling, I'll go with the real one.
Maybe you should have your enabling discussion with all the other season ticket holders. I never received a survey, or a call. Have a big rally at Jack London Square
And, yeah, except for that record thing. You have to start somewhere. Not every positive move goes immediately to the bottom line.
And, I'm not going to apologize for not joining folks in the muck and mire of despair. I continue to believe it is turning around.
Also, where is anyone claiming Al Davis is a victim of anything? Talk about bending spoons and running with scissors. He's the owner of a sports franchise. Lohan has a couple of idiot parents that say instead of finally doing jail time she should go to rehab for the fifth time. But, if she does have to go to jail, let’s negotiate a million dollar fee with someone for the first interview when she gets out. That's enabling her drug use. The only thing she’s a victim of are her own bad choices, as is Russell.
There are a lot of things I can enable. Al Davis’ decision making process ain’t in the list. Maybe you have that power, and maybe you not renewing your season tickets woke them up. But, I don't have that kind of power, control or input.
If one of my kids starts consuming "drank" and I don't kick their ass all over the county, that's enabling.
Being redundant doesn't change the word either. Being redundant is being redundant.
I still haven’t heard how I, Blanda, or others are enabling. Having an opinion does not an enabler make. And, to be honest, I do this as a fan of the team and the man.
I’m not out to change him because I believe he will do what he feels is right. It may not happen as fast as I want, but I believe it will.
We’ve been doing this dance for well over a year now and none of the two camps have given ground.
So, I guess it’s still all Al’s fault and he’s a total idiot now.
H
This comment has been removed by the author.
My bad, you're right, I can't imagine where I might have gotten the idea that people here have been making repeated and mind-bending excuses for the Raiders' sad record-setting stretch.
I clearly haven't been reading the comments here.
I'm sure that any impartial person walking in here and reading the comments over the past several years would conclude that excuses haven't been made, and that Al Davis hasn't been portrayed as a victim.
"RT"...
Beautifully said so than this totally applies to you...Guilty by your own testimony -n- beliefs...
Mutiny: is a conspiracy among members of a group of similarly-situated individuals (typically members of the military; or the crew of any ship, even if they are civilians) to openly oppose, change or overthrow an authority to which they are subject.
As members of the Raider Nation and crew on board their "Ship-o-War" I do hereby accuse you of attempting to incite "Mutiny" and using this board as a platform on which to promote that event...
As quoted you said specifically here...Your Testimony...
----------------------------------
Enabling behavior is enabling behavior
----------------------------------
If others join me in not enabling, good for them. If there are enough of us, we might be heard. Simple as that.
----------------------------------
Everyone has a voice. And every sound makes a noise, however small. The smallest pebble in the pond makes a ripple.
---------------------------------
And if enough people are of the same mind and voice, it can have an impact.
Apparently, tens of thousands of fans were of the same mind in not choosing to subsidize last year's DHB and Russell scholarship tour.
Not a single one of those fans is significant, I'll grant you that.
The question is, if they are all insignificant, how did they manage to become 25,000 strong?
---------------------------------
I believe that if I go on the Internet and make repeated and absurd excuses for Lindsay Lohan's behavior, then I am engaged in an act of enabling. Sorry, that's what I believe. I don't care if she's listening, if she's a thousand miles away, if anyone's reading my comments, if they comments are changing someone's opinion, or whatever.
----------------------------------
Therefor your continual efforts to speak out against Al Davis as "Commander-n-Chief" of the Raider Nation and the Raiders' "Ship-o-War" are hereby identified as a continual attempt to incite a "Mutiny" and use this board as a platform to encourage others to join in on that immoral act as co-conspirators as you have even posted how great the #'s in support have risen and belittle any and all who refuse to join you in your immoral act...
You immorality comes from your continued attempts to become a divider and cause division amongst the fans and our perpetual "Raider Luv"...
PantyRaider..."Mutinous Dogs" ARRRRrrrr!!!!/_
Conspiracy: The act of two or more persons, called conspirators, working secretly to obtain some goal, usually understood with negative connotations.
By your own definitions and by your own proclamation and by your own testimony you are all guilty!!!...
To be hung by the yards-n-flogged-n-keel-hauled onto humiliating repentance!!!...
*gavel slams!*
Got it, so your argument isn't that you're not excusing and enabling.
Your argument is that those who don't excuse or enable are...mutineers?
If you define mutineer as the opposite of enabler, then count me in.
Excuses, excuses. So plentiful around here.
"H"....
Beautifully said...
"I'm not going to apologize for not joining folks in the muck and mire of despair."
It's a sad sad day in the "Nation" when some deliberately attempt to cause divisions in our "Raider Luv" this way....And this right before the beginning of a bright new season...Perhaps even a new era in Raider history as we embark upon this new decade laid before us...
Oh! The hopeless ones...Faith is not the possession of all peoples...
PantyRaider...Faithful Onto Death!!!/_
"And, yeah, except for that record thing. You have to start somewhere. Not every positive move goes immediately to the bottom line."
True H. You've got to start somewhere but we all know, the ultimate barometer of "positive moves" is a team' record.
Al Davis would be the 1st one in line to say that the last 7 years have been a complete failure. A team to it's core can be defined by their record. A 5-11 team is a 5-11 team.
Doesn't matter if there were close games, upset victories, QB changes, players with potential, injuries, etc. A team's record is the final verdict on judging and evaluating.
I am very hopeful that 2010 is the year that we can all point to the "positive moves" and the record and tie to the two together.
"RT"...
You have the true definitions so there is no need to "Intellectually Twist" anything at all so stop trying to move those rubber walls and I'm damn tired of tripping over all your stupid bent spoons...
We have your established testimony that you are in fact encouraging others to join in with you and your continued attempts to belittle any and all who would refuse to do so...
So it is by your own words that guilt is established upon you and all who would join you in that mutinous endeavor as the "Mutinous Dogs" that they are....PERIOD!!!!...
PantyRaider...Proclamations Of Guilt Stand!!!/_
"CJ"...
One thing of note on that is that last year Mr Davis for the 1st time declared we wont be attending the "SB" after tat season so that has some special meaning here...He was fully aware that we were in a rebuilding phase and it would take time to solidify that...But I have a feeling thing will be quite different this upcoming season...
PantyRaider...Waiting On The Old-Man's Projections!!!/_
"H"-n-"BR"...
I made this point early on over the weekend in reply to all those "Excuse making" accusations but will re-post it now to see if it's agreeable with you...Speaking for myself but also as a generation of which we are all a part...
I speak for myself but suspect the others agree that what we attempt to do is find a legitimate reasoning for the decisions that have been made and the resulting effects without believing the crap published by "SOME" that it's just "Old-Age"-n-Feeble Minds...Quite simply some of us are already of advanced age and don't believe that crap due to personnel experience...Now where was I going with that...Oh! Ya!...
Maybe it's a generational thing but "BabyBoomers" try to gain understanding threw reasoning on every little point...Reconstruct the issue and play it back a few times until it makes sense...
Now we have a situation where this is being contrived by "SOME" as making excuses...As if we have the power to excuse any conduct what-so-ever...And when I ask what have we excused I get no replies...Obviously because we don't hold that power at all anywhere...I ask what have we enabled and it's that same situation...
So until someone can come up with some legitimate example of us excusing or enabling anything we should be able to write it off as another example of....
PantyRaider..."Intellectual Twister"-n-"Spoon Bending"!!!!/_
Just being intellectually honest between rigid walls and my spoons aren't bent either....
"RT"...
Constructed around you are the rigid walls built by your own testimony and they shall stand...
Lest you should develop a simple technique of just admitting a mistake was made and the walls can be torn down and reconstructed differently...But I doubt you have that in you...
PantyRaider...By All Means Just Continue Your Childish "Intellectual Twister" To No Avail!!!!/_
"CheckMate"....
What mistake?
This thread was started off on a good foot as noted by myself but than your proceeded to stick that foot in your mouth and step on your own tongue with your unfounded accusations against us so now you can suffer the consequence of your own proclamations...How freakin appropriate!!!...
PantyRaider...Guilty as charged!!!/...
As Expected!!!!...
If we go 9-7 this year, I don't know what some of you are going to do.
By dismissing wins and losses as a reflection of the state of the team, and by denying Mr. Davis the chief responsibility for the state of the team, I'm not sure what you're going to do.
Who will you hold responsible for our success. In fact, will you even be able to call it a success, since you don't believe in wins and losses as a direct reflection of the state of the team?
Because I have been consistent on these matters (PantyRaider calls it twisted), I will be in a perfect position to give Mr. Davis his due credit for what I consider a success (winning more games than losing).
PantyRaider, trust me, if the absurd excuses for failure stop, my critiques of such excuses will stop.
It's not enough for some of you that we might finally be turning a corner. You insist on retrofitting earlier failures with success, and demanding that I go along with it.
Not gonna happen.
RT, why bother? You can't reason with insane. The guy is short a quart, he isn't playing on a level field, his deck is missing a few cards. You may as well try and tell a monkey that the earth is round and orbits the sun.
He claimed to me that I was delusional because I felt I had a voice. Now he is finding others guilty of mutiny because they have a voice? One rule for the "crew".....
JONES
"But I have a feeling thing will be quite different this upcoming season"
It's the same thing you have said every season since you've been on this site. It's like crying wolf.....guilty of crying wolf = bullet between the eyes.
Go to sleep Waste, go for a very long sleep and wake up in mid September. All your insane ramblings and your "feelings" of what will occur won't be missed. They have no meaning until the team actually starts to win more than it loses. Then you can get up on your mutiny horse and your 10 year plans and tell the world how brilliant you are and how you knew all along....blah blah blah. Until then, have a little humble pie cause you have NOTHING to brag about. But in your fanatasy world, you are the greatest fan and the most positive guy and you can will the team to greatness. You can even change the past with your "new reality".....
JONES
"JudeAss"...
Is that your pitiful rendition of "Best Wishes"...Is that really all you've got...How pitiful...And a master of how to type 1,000 words and say nothing...And you the one who tries to claim glory as the instigator of the rebellion....
----------------------------------
Take this site for instance, if there weren't a couple of posters on here a few years ago that told the reality of the Raider situation, this site would still be singing the praises of Al Davis like the rest of the "crew".
The snowball began and now most fans see the reality of the Raiders. I'm not saying it's the sole doing, not even close, it's part of the process though.
----------------------------------
Just a "Mutinous Pup"...That's all...And a malignant disease that tries to infest the weak minded like yourself...
So where is your answers to posted info against your stupidity...Like the combine where you posted "JeFat" was stupid and fat/sloppy...While the reports stated he has unheard-of stature and bulk, a howitzer for an arm and scored a solid 24 on the Wonderlic intelligence test.
You run from the "TRUTH" as usual "LIAR"....
PantyRaider...Stupidity Abounds!!!/_
"RT"...
That point was already addressed...The coaches get props for coaching while the players get their props for the plays they make and managements get props for the decisions they make or influenced...This goes for the good and the bad as the pie is split amongst all it's members according to their area of influence...
No one wears all the hats...It is an absolute lie to project otherwise...For instance...You didn't disagree with the firing of Lance but the timing was your issue...If Al wears all the hats than why fire any coach when they are just a figureheads and responsible for nothing...
Meanwhile the fans get props for their continued support or the lack of it as is the issue on the table at present...We do not and will not get/take any responsibility for what he have no control over regardless of how often you attempt to saddle us with enabling...
Also meanwhile you have continued to avoid our request for prof....One single thing we have enabled...One single example that establishes we had control and effected the slightest change...There again I would challenge you to stipulate one stinking example of what you have caused to be different...One damn thing you have influenced...
I will give you one example...
The way this board has been turned into a "Pissing Stone" of dissension as you have continued to promote your rebellion against the "MGP" and his established organizational structure and his authority by divine right to continue to run his own damn franchise....Just as I posted before this board is a direct reflection of you and not of any poster who visits here....And this mutiny is of your own making...
This was your proclamation as to how things will be done here...As you speak so let it be done...
---------------------------------
Let's focus on two or three of my wrongs. Please state them succinctly so I understand. I've always said I get things wrong. But if I don't think I'm wrong, I'm not going to be bullied into saying it. So I can't say in advance that I'll agree with you, but let's give it a try
----------------------------------
Sticking to the subject at hand...No wavering in and out or moving those rubber walls is my understanding of being "Focused"...
So now in accordance with that please post the prof of your accusations against us or retract the falsehood which you have projected upon us...
I for my part have posted the expressions from you which invite mutiny and I will continue to post others as I dig them up and the new examples of future post as I see them in support of my accusation against you as stated below...
You have used this board as a platform to incite/encourage Mutiny...Dissension...Division...Rebellion...Withdrawal Of Support while continuing to attempt to humiliate any who dare to disagree and uphold "Raider Luv" and refuse to join with you in that endeavor...
PantyRaider...Awaiting Your Testimony -n- Evidence!!!!/_
OK, let me get this straight. In the past, on this sight, I have stated the following:
Bringing in Randy Moss is a big mistake.
Bringing in Warren Sapp was a big mistake.
Bringing in DeAngelo Hall is a big mistake.
Norv Turner was the wrong coach.
My initial support for Kiffin waned quickly as I complained about his overly restrictive use of the play book no matter who was at QB.
I disagreed with the drafting of DHB, my preference was Michael Oher or Raji. Hell, I wanted OL or DL instead of McFadden.
I’ve stated ad nauseum the above decisions, and others, and the coaching carrousel are the responsibility of management/ownership because they either directly make the decision or approve of the actions.
I’m restating these things for somewhere near the 20th time.
Yet, for some reason that escapes logic (I got an A in logic in college), from my recliner in a secret location in the metro Atlanta area, glass of porter in hand with my Sunday Ticket subscription, I’m making mind blowing excuses that have enabled all this and the last seven seasons????? Little old me, damn I'm good.
Maybe my ultimate sin was saying that coaching decisions and personnel request "contributed" to the collapse and current situation. How dare anyone suggest getting here was a team effort and getting out would require the same.
Are these now the new rules:
A – Don’t say anything positive about the team roster
B – Don’t say anything positive about Tom Cable
C – Do not disrespect St. Gruden by saying he was very good, but not great.
D – Above all don’t say anything positive about Al Davis
E – Repeat A through D as often as needed to totally destroy any optimistic outlook.
In addition:
“By dismissing wins and losses as a reflection of the state of the team, and by denying Mr. Davis the chief responsibility for the state of the team, I'm not sure what you're going to do.”
Where did you come up with that statement? Please see the above recitation published for the n’th time, and here are my statements on wins and losses based on the last two offseasons:
“There were also positives from last season. It was shown this team can compete with proper QB play and leadership.”
“Except for the record we've had some very positive things happen the past two years.”
“Not every positive move goes immediately to the bottom line.”
Where do those statements dismiss wins and losses? They are simple statements that I believe we have started moving in the right direction, and they only apply to the time that has elapsed since Cable took over.
For the first time since St. Gruden we didn’t go backwards in the coaches second year. Tom Cable’s current record is better after two seasons than Jimmy Johnson. And, yes I know he won 7 games his second year, but I’m sure the fans were oh sooo excited about that inital 1-15 campaign.
So, do those who don’t agree need to just go away?
Calico,
“True H. You've got to start somewhere but we all know, the ultimate barometer of "positive moves" is a team' record.”
Totally agree, that’s why I’m looking forward to this season with remote in the right hand, porter in the left, DVR in full record mode, recliner in its full upright and locked position during game time.
Also, “2010 is a fresh start where hopefully the decisions made by management and the performance by the players are squarely focused on winning.”
Well said. I keep looking forward to talking about the upcoming season, the final makeup of the roster and what other moves need to be made. But, every time I do I’m told I’m dismissing the last seven years and I need to be taken to the woodshed again and again until I admit Al is an idiot.
I believe he’s actually old enough to take the blame for the decline and fall of the Roman Empire. I think he was the one who told Nero to just keep playing that fiddle.
H
This comment has been removed by the author.
Hell "MrD" is so damn old and responsible that he prolley single highhandedly caused the rise -n- subsequent fall of the entire Egyptian Empire starting in motion all global warfare and the subsequent sinking of that Korean "Ship-o-War" last month....
Meanwhile...Back somewhere in Cali..."RT" continues his mutinous ways while humiliating all who wont join in by saddling them with accusations of...
We caused it all...We gave Al Davis a way out...We excused him...We enabled him with our constant non-stop support of his now past dead global empire...How dare we!!!...How dare we!!!...
All hail "RT" the "MutinousDog" who exposes our evil ways...
PantyRaider....Oh!...I'm So Shamed!!!/_
Additional comment:
"If we go 9-7 this year, I don't know what some of you are going to do.
By dismissing wins and losses as a reflection of the state of the team, and by denying Mr. Davis the chief responsibility for the state of the team, I'm not sure what you're going to do."
Once again, I never "dismissed" wins and losses, but if that's the final record, I'm going to enjoy the season and wish it were 10-6 or 11-5 or even better. And, I'm going to give credit to players, coaches, head coach and management/ownership.
Like I said, teamwork got us here, and it's going to take the right teamwork to get us out.
So, I assume nothing can be considered as a positive move except wins and losses?
McClain, Houston, Jason Campbell, Henderson, et al - not a positive move in that whole list, or last offseason or this offseason. Zilch, zero, nada.
Silly me, I was always under the impression that positive personnel moves came "before" the wins, I never realized it was the other way round.
H
Looks like Bo Jackson needs a good talking to from JONES. Bo apparently doesn't KNOW THE TRUTH!
http://tinyurl.com/38w3gem
"RT"...
Now sadly I have to identify you as an "Enabler"...
This board is the reference point where you have enabled the "Raider Haters" an un-checked voice against the "GodFather" of our franchise...Against the organizational structure of that franchise...Against our historical slogans and our cherished identity...Against the men -n- women who have or continue to work for that franchise including its players/coaches/scouts/front office personnel...And against our long standing record of achievements...
Now the record is established and the prof is posted on this thread and in the archives and this was well within the realm of your influence/power/regulatoryship as administrator of this site in your official capacity...
Furthermore:
Al Davis by virtue of his past achievements relating to the AFL/NFL/Raider Franchise/Court Victories/Innovative Influence/Community Service has earned the perpetual respect of every and all inhabitants of the "Raider Nation" as well as anyone else in the sports realm including those damn "Mediot"s whether you and them are willing to bestow that respect upon him or not...
Your use of or your allowance of this board to defame a great man such as Mr Davis is conduct unbecoming a "Raider" so again I will admonish you to....
"Avast...Hard Over "RT" your traversing dangerous waters with this talk of mutiny"....ARRRrrrrr!
PantyRaider...Still Supportin!!!/_
"BR"....
It's a shame that Bo's words had to be posted between such a negative opinion of Mr Davis...I doubt that's anything along the lines that Bo was trying to convey...
No doubt "RT" will jump on that negative bandwagon saying "See told ya so"....
PantyRaider...Always Slanted Negatively!!!/_
Don't you get it, H? If the Raiders manage a winning season this year, the cause will be that "tough love" issued by RT, Calico, NYRaider, and especially... JONES.
Davis and Cable will have had nothing to do with it. A few players might get some credit - you know, those guys who managed to sneak on the team when Davis and Cable weren't looking.
It's the same clown show, starring the "crew" on here every year at this time. You all claim greatness and the superior fan label, blah blah blah. You muddle and twirl the facts and play "make believe" because there are no games being played. But every year, once the season starts, you all disappear and wait till the season is over to start it all again. There is no reasoning with insane, trolls are no fun, case closed.
JONES
"BR"...
Now that you are on-line I will ask this again....
I made this point early on over the weekend in reply to all those "Excuse making" accusations but will re-post it now to see if it's agreeable with you...Speaking for myself but also as a generation of which we are all a part...
I speak for myself but suspect the others agree that what we attempt to do is find a legitimate reasoning for the decisions that have been made and the resulting effects without believing the crap published by "SOME" that it's just "Old-Age"-n-Feeble Minds...Quite simply some of us are already of advanced age and don't believe that crap due to personnel experience...Now where was I going with that...Oh! Ya!...
Maybe it's a generational thing but "BabyBoomers" try to gain understanding threw reasoning on every little point...Reconstruct the issue and play it back a few times until it makes sense...
Now we have a situation where this is being contrived by "SOME" as making excuses...As if we have the power to excuse any conduct what-so-ever...And when I ask what have we excused I get no replies...Obviously because we don't hold that power at all anywhere...I ask what have we enabled and it's that same situation...
So until someone can come up with some legitimate example of us excusing or enabling anything we should be able to write it off as another example of....
PantyRaider..."Intellectual Twister"-n-"Spoon Bending"!!!!/_
CJ:
"BR, don't get things twisted. Saying I'm having it both ways is simply ridiculous. I have been consistent in my message for many, many years ... as a fan I can be patient if I see that the foundation is being built in a judicious way. I have been very complimentary of this past off season."
Well, the other thing you've been really consistent about is pretending like you know the inside conversations at Alameda Parkway. You have NO idea what planning went on between Davis and Turner, Davis and Shell, nor (for that matter) Davis and Kiffin. You are beginning to see results from Davis and Cable.
Every one of these HCs came in and said "I'm going to turn this team around." But there is one difference. Cable said, "I know what's wrong, and I know how to fix it, but I can't do it without Mr. Davis' help."
To you, these statements mean nothing. To me, they lend credence to what I've been arguing all along.
Hey Balanda, if you haven't noticed, most of the Nation isn't on your team. It is a voice of hundreds of thousands, not just a few on here. See how the crew is twisting this all around? They couldn't stay with the truth if it grabbed their balls and twisted. They live in a world of mis info and made up realities. Their minds are so weak and diluted that they have to make up a reality to cope....only the insane does that.
Your reference to Bo shows how pathetic you are. Yes Al defends his players, no one ever questioned that, big deal. But in your propaganda drive, you try and use that as an attack on me? Talk about weak.
JONES
Well one thing will be allot of fun this season...
"BR"-"H"-Gary-Myself-n-others will tip a brew while listening to the out-cries of "JudeAss" the liar when he realizes his "TRUTH" has abandoned him and that old men rule!!!/_
PantyRaider...Oh! da Horrah!!!!/_
"You are beginning to see results from Davis and Cable."
What results?
JONES
I agree with you, Panty. Our generation's quest was for knowledge and understanding. But we are now in an age were you have to say "I know everything!" to protect yourself against people who actually do know something.
Truth never lies, you on the other hand......the truth will NEVER fail, that's why you are a failure.
JONES
"BR"...
Yes...As stated by my friend who is a great political debater and "73"...
"If you say it loud and frequently some will begin to believe it simply because it appears to them that you know what your talking about and it has become familiar to them"....
Thus what has taken over this board...
PantyRaider...Repetition Rather Than Sensibility!!!/_
Ah! "JudeAss"...
Again you displace the "TRUTH"...
It is written "Love never fails"...
As to what you just posted it's now very apparent you suffer from some sort of disassociation -n- confusion...
Maybe you just got dropped on your noggin too many times as a baby...
PantyRaider...Only A Liar Needs To Promote Himself With A Billboard Saying...."I Have The TRUTH"!!!!/_
Did you ever sale used cars....
"Honest JudeAss Here"....Ha! Ha!...
Excuses -vs- Reasons:
If a son was questioned as to how a window became broken and he explained...
"My friends came over and we were playing ball and by accident the ball hit the window and it became broken"...
Should the father become angry because his son is making excuses...
What if the son said...
"I don't know...When I got home it was already broken...But I did see some bad boys in the neighborhood running down the street away from our house"...
Or...
"Billy was mad at me and he threw a ball at me but I ducked so it hit the window"...
Or...
"We were all playing ball when this stupid bird flew by and the ball hit it and the bird broke the window"...
By the way the "TRUTH" is that the ball broke the window...
So in all of this how can you make excuses without also bending the truth...
This way perhaps...
"It's my home and it's my ball so if I want to break the damn window I will"...
So...As I have said repeatedly...
"It's Al's team and his right to run it as he pleases despite any objections from you"....
PantyRaider...Excuser Galore!!!/_
Blanda,
I’m not sure I would include Calico in the list. I think he just likes a good debate and welcomes disagreement. Most Jar Heads like a good fight. At least the ones I’m related to do. Wink, wink, nudge, nudge.
As a baby boomer I don’t go in for all the age of enlightenment stuff. Never had my intellect expanded with mind altering substances. Well, except for a solid 9-10% beer. I just figure I got my education back when they actually taught folks how to read, write, do math, know history, the English language, think, etc. And that was high school.
H
Panty,
Actually I was mad at my sister for locking me out of the house. So I put my fist through the glass pane on the door and opened it.
Then my father kicked my butt once for breaking the glass and once for bleeding on the floor, before he took me to the hospital to get sewed up.
H
H, to a degree I misspeak. Actually it was our parents who set up the opportunity to educate ourselves. And I also remember how much we objected to it. Our response was, "Everything I ever needed to know, I learned in Kindergarten." In fact WE DID actually learn more in Kindergarten than the current public schooler learns in 12 years. But that only goes to show how we failed to protect what our parents, "the Greatest Generation," gave us.
But the fact of the matter is, also, that many of us did use the time and resources available to learn something - other than drugs.
I get a little tired of the meme that says that the boomers only consisted of two types - VN war veterans and stoners. Believe me, H. There was whole range in between.
Well said Blanda. Daughter of H is a kindergarten teacher and she is always amazed at how many parents do not get involved in their kids education.
H
Tell her to take heart, H. My mother was a teacher of elementary school and jr. high school for 30 years. She ALWAYS said exactly the same thing, and she retired in 1981.
Some things never change, but somewhere along the line folks seem to have decided that education costs nothing, so any money spent on it is a waste. I'm sure many of the parents of your daughter's pupils feel that teachers should get paid no more than 1950 era minimum wage.
I've been offered two high school teaching jobs in my time. I turned down both because they didn't offer a salary - they offered a stipend.
Take, CJ...
"So if you are excusing, you are enabling.
"What some of you don't realize is that your excusing (enabling) insults, rather than exalts, Mr. Davis.
"How can you give him credit for our future success if you tie yourself into knots by denying him chief responsibility for our recent misfortunes?"
What I find amusing, which discredits your post, is that I have consistently said, for a matter of years now, that Al Davis removed himself from much of the process going back at least to the early '90s.
I have said the he no longer has the physical mobility to be the same firebrand he was even 10 years ago. Because of that, I've said Mr. Davis needs executive help, but I leave him to his own schedule. I've said that the choice Mr. Davis has is to either find the way to make up for the physical capabilities that he's lost, or he needs help.
In the last couple of years, I've said that Tom Cable appears to have developed into the physical body that Al needs because of their constant consultation in all matters of Raider football.
So... For pointing out the Al Davis flaw that I think is real and I think is being at least temporarily repaired, I too have been called an enabler.
So you are being fairly disingenuous when you say that you don't consider someone an enabler when they are willing to see flaws and point them out. There is another element also. They apparently must also support your specific opinion.
No thanks. I'll stick with the merits of my own.
Well, since you give me no credit for ever praising Mr. Davis and the Raiders, I guess the shoe's on the other foot.
If I suggest that it's weird to trash the Gruden era and if I give Gruden some measure of credit (didn't PantyRaider say the coach gets credit?) while giving Mr. Davis most of the credit, I'm told that I am "sainting" Gruden and declaring his "greatness," not the Raiders' greatness.
If I hold Mr. Davis chiefly responsible for the failures and successes of the franchise, I am told that I'm saying it's "all" Al Davis's fault.
These are flat misrepresentations.
I try to avoid the superlatives that are being thrown around here as cover for honest debate.
I can give you credit for critiquing Mr. Davis while still stating my opinion that I believe you have made ridiculous excuses on his behalf. I don't need easy if inaccurate superlatives to make that argument.
I wish I'd compiled a Greatest Hits of excuses. If you keep daring me to do it, I just might.
;)
Also, not every comment is directed at you, Blanda. Apparently we both believe that Al Davis needs executive help, although we seem to disagree on the urgency of the matter. But others eviscerate me for holding that opinion, which is your opinion. So if I push back on that, I'm not pushing back on you.
From 1962 to 1992, Al Davis had a Hall of Fame career.
But, from 1993 to 2010, can anyone honestly say Al has had Hall of Fame type success ?
I would say no.
All I know Raider00 is that that after Raiders' last Super Bowl victory in 1984, they haven't put together a run like they did in the early 2000s, culminating in the team's first Super Bowl appearance since 1984.
And yet that run in the early 2000s has been dismissed by several folks here as no great shakes. I can only conclude that these people feel that Mr. Davis, and the Raiders, haven't exhibited greatness for 26 years running.
Balanda makes up the EXCUSE that Al Davis stepped away for years but only stepped in when there was success....if that doesn't sound like an enabler....it's making false realities to fit their position, be damned if it's bullshit, it doesn't matter. All that matters is preserving the legend. Winning and losing is just the sideshow, Al is what matters. Al could never be at fault, he is the genius, the maverick, the "creator of all the human race"...they sound like alcoholics, making the excuse, ANY excuse to have one more drink. They'll tell the most exaggerated lies to further their enabling, actually convincing themselves that they are telling the truth. It's INSANE.
JONES
"I wish I'd compiled a Greatest Hits of excuses. If you keep daring me to do it, I just might."
Take, please - take your best shot. But remember it's a two way street.
I've given both Gruden and Allen plenty of credit for their success while they were here. My problem with you is you feel that rate zero criticism. Apparently arguments about Davis must be balanced, but not in regard to St. Gruden.
I gave him full credit for the Super Bowl run - just like I gave full credit to Madden and Flores. What is rejected by you and Calico is that I feel he and Allen share quite a bit of the blame (not all of it - a LOT of it) for all of our key players retiring within a three year time frame.
Sounds a little like what I'm hearing from you guys are "superlatives that are being thrown around here as cover for honest debate."
"Zero criticism."
There you go again.
Okay, let's start the Greatest Excuses Hits with this gem from a few hours ago:
"What I find amusing, which discredits your post, is that I have consistently said, for a matter of years now, that Al Davis removed himself from much of the process going back at least to the early '90s."
I know that you meant that as a critique of Mr. Davis, but it's also a great imitation of an excuse.
I suppose that if Mr. Davis was fairly checked out during Gruden's tenure, as you suggest, then we should be giving Gruden and Allen even more credit for what we achieved in the early 2000s. Of course, you get angry if they get credit. So consider me confused.
"Retrofitting earlier failures with success...."
I like that. That statement sums up a lot of bizarre takes posted on this site.
One of my biggest criticisms of Al Davis has been his sabotaging the 2008 season to build a case against Kiffin. Many of us saw the writing on the wall at the beginning of that off-season, only to wait and wonder why Davis wouldn’t pull the trigger until after the 4th game.
His reasoning turned out to be vindictive and self-destructing to his team.
Now I wonder why those who continue to support Davis as GM have never provided a legitimate “excuse” why Davis abandoned the 2008 season. Instead, they denigrate anyone who suggests Davis lost sight of winning as a top priority.
I forget, what was the “excuse” for that one?
"Well, the other thing you've been really consistent about is pretending like you know the inside conversations at Alameda Parkway. You have NO idea what planning went on between Davis and Turner, Davis and Shell, nor (for that matter) Davis and Kiffin. You are beginning to see results from Davis and Cable."
PR show me 1 comment, 1 line, 1 statement over the past 4 years that I've been visiting this site where I EVER said I knew the inside conversations at Alameda. You can't because I didn't. Like all of you fans, I pick up my Raider information from a wide range of media outlets. I comment about what I've read BUT I have in no shape or form EVER acted like I knew what was going on behind closed doors. Speculating and having inside information are 2 entirely different animals and you know it.
This is the type of BS, slanderous, out-right lie that loses you an important currency which is credibility.
I expect 1 of 2 things from you. Either (1) Back it up with the post or (2) Apologize
If you do neither, you are a complete coward. If you apologize and admit it was a complete mis-statement by you, it's water under the bridge.
"I have consistently said, for a matter of years now, that Al Davis removed himself from much of the process going back at least to the early '90s."
BR - You might need to expound upon your thoughts here. As I read it, it is basically saying that Davis was asleep at the wheel. To remove yourself from the process is negligent. To hire capable management and delegate is another story. I won't put words in your mouth but this is probably the most insulting comment you could ever make about your hero.
You're right, NY Raider, nobody wanted to touch that take on 2008, at least not directly.
The excuse was indirect in that case, because the 2008 season is included in the "past two years" and "past four years" and other alleged periods during which we supposedly really started to turn things around.
The dumbest season in the history of the team and it's considered part of a turnaround.
07/12/2010 Signed CB Walter McFadden (D5-10)
"H"...
I can remember those discipline sessions myself...Funny...At the time they were terrible but in retrospect they made a point....Generation "X" has been treated with "Kid-Gloves" and it shows...As is written "Spare the rod spoil the child"...Respect has now flown out the window...
As "BR" noted there was a very wide range of results that made up the "BabyBoomers"...As for me I was both the "VN" era vet and the "Stoner"...Educated frequently as in every time the opportunity presented itself and grew to highly appreciate the instructors/teachers who have helped me on my way....Respect has been earned by them...
"RT"....
It's funny how you attempt to soften your position now when in fact your posts have been quite different...
You did not just post Al should get some help....You posted demands for it and that your withdrawing your support until moves in that direction are made...
You posted repeatedly that his designed organizational structure is somehow wrong and in violation of nationally accepted corporate structure as if you ever even looked at that corp and it's officers or read one damn minute taken...
You repeatedly posted about his age and how those limitations would restrict any and all from running a corp and on that basis he should step away and you demanded that he do so while totally ignoring the facts that old men around his same generation continue to hold kingship over countries such as Thailand and are caring for a great deal more than what's on Al's plate with a small NFL franchise...
Now the list goes on and on...
You didn't just post about the good Gruden did as a Raider but you posted about his time in "TB" as well and the "Greatness of Gruden" was refereed to on this board which is why I used it in my posts and all this while posting to diminish the "Greatness of the Raiders" as some ancient historical event...In one breath you praise Gruden for the 3 year run of which he only contributed during 2 of those years while at the same time you diminish the Raiders as a team of the decades and say those 3 seasons weren't enough to give them that identity...
"CJ"....
I would gladly accept your challenge if not for the fact that those are not my words...So now please...Withdraw your accusations from me and we can stand toe-to-toe on something I'm legitimately responsible for...Like excusing Al Davis for instance...But the prof is on you...
One point on Mr Davis' reduced activity...He said his wife was in harms way and needed his attention...Now is there a single man amongst you who wouldn't deem it honorable to do for his spouse what Al did for his...After that period of time Al's own health took a dive and it has taken him some time to learn how to deal with that issue..."H" and myself have been down a similar road in our adult lives and fully understand what it take to make such adjustments...Do You???...
So now by pointing out those legitimate reasons why the man may have deemed it necessary to let others take over a larger share of his corporate responsibilities am I excusing him for something...In other words....When your mommies wrote those notes to excuse you from class was what she did wrong...Enabling...
"NYR"...
Legitimate reasons have been posted and ignored by you...
The corporate world has a few legally binding laws regulating contracts and some of those have to do with "Release for just cause"...The "Just Cause" just was not there prior to the time action was taken...Now by all means if you have a law book or some understanding of corporate law please continue to argue that point but I doubt you have either...
Mine is also limited and relates more to union activities which apply to that realm and subcontracts which have been awarded to small contractors on job sites...
PantyRaider...So Much To Discus -w- So Little Time!!!!/_
"CJ"...
Now that knocked down my door and game in with guns a blazing and shot holes in my new home would please consider making the return trip to Asia and bring some tools to make the necessary repairs...I'll gladly feed you while you work and give you a beer or two....
Damn!!!..Got a little excited didn't we???...
PantyRaider....LoL!!!!/_
PantyRaider, it sounds like you have a beef with Blanda. Hope you two can work it out.
When did I withdraw my support?
When I decided not to renew my season tickets? Why don't you pay for them? I know, you're far away. Well, why not just make cash donations? Better, yet, why don't you let me tell you to make cash donations, under threat of me telling you that you are otherwise withdrawing your support?
I am not a personal ATM for the Oakland Raiders.
Winning was not the top priority in 2008, as I (and the Raiders) clearly demonstrated. That changed the value equation for me.
I decided that if winning wasn't the top priority for the Raiders, then season tickets were not the top priority for me.
I didn't withdraw my support. I still go to the occasional game. But I am not a personal ATM for the Raiders, and the fact that they lost me (and thousands of others) as season ticket holders due to their own shenanigans is on them, not me.
“Reaching the playoffs in 3 of 10 years in both the 90's and 2000's is not a remarkable achievement in my book.”
Oh!...But Gruden doing this is...
Gruden deserves credit for his leadership that led the Raiders to the cusp of greatness.
I'm "sainting" Gruden by being proud of what he and the Raiders accomplished, instead of dissing those years as ho-hum
Almost the entire thread talks about how Gruden was Great and the Raiders are not...
Oh! WoW! "RT" now that "Enabling" yourself galore as you cry...
"The Raiders Made me Do It"...
What a freakin joke...
----------------------------------
the fact that they lost me (and thousands of others) as season ticket holders due to their own shenanigans is on them, not me.
----------------------------------
Yes you did so state you are withdrawing/limiting your support and you took actions to that extent as so noted in your own damn testimony as posted here...
PantyRaider...Short Memories Or What!!!/_
Living In Total -n- Complete Denial!!!...
PantyRaider, according to Blanda, Davis needs help, and was largely checked out during Gruden's tenure, which naturally would give even more credit to Gruden for our success.
You two have a major disagreement. I hope you can work it out.
And let me know when you've decided on that cash donation you're going to make to prove your support.
"RT"....
PantyRaider, it sounds like you have a beef with Blanda. Hope you two can work it out.
Your a little inept when it comes to understanding what you read aren't you...
The "Beef" was posted by "CJ" not by me and all I did was to point it out in a somewhat sarcastically humorous way...So did that upset you or something...
PantyRaider...Rigid Walls Dammit!!!/_
Since when is the money one spends a measure of support? Where's your cash donation?
Raiders tickets are a luxury for most of us. For some of us, winning not being the top priority is a deal breaker on that luxury. No fan owes the Raiders anything.
Talk about enabling: You must be a personal ATM for the Raiders no matter what they do, no matter if they abandon winning as the top priority, for the rest of your life.
That's the most enabling idea I can conceive of. Well done.
I wasn't talking about you and CJ, I was talking about you and Blanda. You have a disagreement, as noted above. Hope you can work it out.
"RT"...
How long are you going to persist with this stupidity...
You post demanding Al Davis hire a "GM" immediately -w- a new "HC" and give them 3 full years with no interruptions and than you smack on Al Davis because he evidently did so in the past as his attentions were give to his dying spouse...
Now it is just damn sick the way you continue to slant everything against the "OldMan" and than attempt to live in denial that you are in fact doing just that...
PantyRaider...Get Over Your Damn "HateTrip"!!!/_
What damn disagreement...Go back and read it again until you get the sense of it...Start with "CJ"s post as a challenge to me...
PR - I repeat, and this is the last time:
I expect 1 of 2 things from you. Either (1) Back it up with the post or (2) Apologize
If you do neither, you are a complete coward. If you apologize and admit it was a complete mis-statement by you, it's water under the bridge.
If you try to spin, deflect, or change the subject, you are a coward. Either back up what you said of step the F back. You can't just accuse me of something, make up wild accusations without backing it up. It doesn't work that way. I threw a potential olive branch you way by saying it's water under the bridge if you ADMIT that your statement is categorically false.
I stand corrected PR and I apolagize to you. My same statement goes to BR. Either back it up or step off.
"RT"...
The money was your damn post and never mine...That's how you said you were withdrawing your support...I never made any mention of $$$$ in reference to myself or any other fans...I only quoted from your posts regarding $$$$...
Now show me to the contrary...You make your damn stupid accusations and never back up a single one...Repeatedly...Empty words slanderous activity...
PantyRaider....Maybe You Should Borrow Some Of "JudeAss"s TRUTH!!!/_
"CJ"...
ThankYou...
Now would you please come and repair my home after all the damage from your "Blazing Pistols"....
PantyRaider...Holy Fire BatMan!!!/_
"RT"...
Perhaps you should view the threads between "CJ" -n- myself and get an understanding of how a man is expected to behave...You can also find good examples of that by viewing past post from "BR"-n-"H"...
Contrast that to how you are acting and you should come to an understanding of why I post about your damn childishness...
PantyRaider...Damn Man Just Grow Up "BABY"!!!!/_
I like how some of the posters continue to point towards RT not renewing his season tickets as a "gotcha" for not "supporting" the team. What a load of crap.
The premise that total dollars spent defines the level of support is a complete joke.
The vast majority of Raider fans don't go to a single game during the season due to where they live, financial situation, etc.
For me to take my 13 year old nephew to 1 game cost $600. PR, if you want to write a check for $600 to the managing general partner to prove your "support", knock yourself out. Or you could just fly from Thailand for each game and spend over $20,000 per season.
Another gIft for us! Ummm, guh-bye vinnie!
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2010/07/12/sports/s221338D36.DTL
man, all is not well in the nation! come on guys we're all on the same team! training camp's just around the corner. simmer down! lets be united and most of all respectful of each other. look, we'll always have differences of opinion. we all know the reason for our sorry state so lets just focus on moving forward.
"CJ"...
Now that was one weak ass attempt to humiliate me over something posted by "RT" himself...He is the one who said that's how he was going to limit his support of the team...That was NOT and never was my take at all and in fact I'm the one who suggested he reconsider that plan because the only one he was hurting was himself...
As far as my cost to view the games it's much deeper than that...I paid threw the nose for a piece of shit service supplied from NFL.com last season and went threw a ton of crap just to get my money back after they charged me double on my debit card and I was never allowed one damn game of the Raiders ta boot...This season I haven't looked yet but I'm more than willing to pay-per-view if I can get a reliable service dispite the fact that I'm on a fixed income as retired but would still croak-up $50/game if available...
The local casino may be my best hope at present...They have sports-book and I'm hoping the vids so if need be I will bet on the games and request to view them...So although I don't gamble I'm willing to pretend to but win or lose on the money doesn't matter as long as I get to see my damn games...
Here is where I hang out...
Located between these two cites on the casino beach are my 2 side-by-side double units -w- second level...Each unit is Thai shop-house style with 2 garage doors down and 2 rooms -w- covered sun deck up...Cost...4,000 B/mo ea...Less than $250/mo for both units on my beach...And I rent from the casino which owns everything in the area and damn good security ta boot...
http://www.koh-kong-cambodia.com/kohkongplaces/koh-kong-casino.html
http://www.koh-kong-cambodia.com/kohkongplaces/safari.html
PantyRaider...Now Ain't Retirement Just Grand!!!/_
Scorpio...
Nice!!!..Ya know we could use a "WR" so maybe old Al should make a deal...
But of course that would just result in more scorn from "RT" for throwing $$$$-n-draft picks at "FA"s...Refer to his comments regarding Seymour's acquisition...
So "RT"...Could you possibly get on-board with going after "SD"s "PB" "WR" while getting addition by subtraction ta boot...His value should have been driven down as a result of his addictions...Alcoholic...Or just plain foolishness...
Here is your past thread again in it's entirety because obviously "Some" have forgotten what your actions we all about....
PantyRaider...The Huge Reminder!!!/_
I will not renew my Oakland Raiders season ticket package for 2009. I can no longer pay for the privilege of watching biblically awful football, in the vein of the recent games against the Falcons and Chiefs, which were akin to washing my eyes out with Clorox.
I can handle losing. What I can’t handle is season after season of reckless organizational behavior that produces a sub NFL-level product. My trust has been broken. I will consider renewing my season tickets when my trust has been earned back. Here’s what it will take for me:
-Tangible, forceful change. The kind of change you can see and taste. There will nothing vague about it. I’m not sure how or when it will happen, but it will be evident when it does. You will see it on the field and sense it in the air, in the way that you knew 8-8 under Jon Gruden was different than 8-8 under Mike White. When a culture of losing changes, you know it. I believe that the quickest route to such change will come with the following:
-The hiring of a qualified general manager with the stated authority to have a say in the draft, free agency and football operations. I’ve heard some folks make excuses recently by noting that Mr. Davis is ailing. Well, that’s what 79 year olds do, they ail. All the more reason to have a strong supporting cast. To not have a competent football executive in place and available at this time is reckless, and it’s something that needs to be remedied immediately.
-No unchecked rumblings of the head coach—whoever he is—being fired. I don’t care if we’re 2-6 by the halfway mark of the upcoming season, or 3-9 after that, I want to see a Raiders coach go a whole season without rampant unchecked speculation about his job security. If the Raiders can issue statements about Al Michaels’ comments on Monday Night Football, Rob Ryan’s job status or who they’re not interviewing for the head coaching position, they can sure enough give their head coach a public vote of confidence if rumors become rampant. Stability is vital right now. Commit to a coach and stick with that coach. Of course, it helps if you hire the right coach.
-No more overpaying overrated free agents with known character issues, such as Randy Moss, DeAngelo Hall and Javon Walker. That’s not too much to ask, is it?
-No more scholarships. Play to win using the best players. Anything less is a perpetuation of the culture of losing.
So there you have it—the things I need to see in 2009 for me to consider purchasing season tickets in 2010.
I can already hear the blood boiling among some of you. Every time I write something like this, I get a flood of comments such as: Al Davis doesn’t care what you think! He’s the owner and he can do what he wants! You have no right to make demands or have an opinion! Blah, blah, blah.
First off, if the Raiders don’t care what I think, then they should stop conducting expensive marketing surveys asking me, as a season ticket holder, what I think. Second, I have every right to decide how I spend my money, and to publish my opinion on my own blog.
Also, I am not making demands here. I am stating conditions, which is what consumers do every day. For example, I won’t buy a Blu-ray DVD player until the prices come down. I won’t purchase an iPhone until Apple demonstrates that the 3G networking bugs have been fixed. And I won’t buy Raiders season tickets again until I see the aforementioned problems addressed.
Note that I said nothing about having to win this or that amount of games, because I know that our record will improve if these conditions are met, be it this year or in the coming years. The record will take care of itself. Nor have I said that I won't be an ardent Raiders fan any longer. I will be as ardent as ever. I'm just cutting back on my investment, not my passion.
Before you get too excited about my conditions, consider what they boil down to: a smart, aggressive implementation of change to address what has become a record-setting culture of losing; the installation of general manager; a good head coach with at least one full year of organizational backing; sensible free agent signings; and a roster and depth chart chosen on the merits of performance, not scholarships.
These are not exotic or outrageous concepts. They are standard operating procedures for any successful franchise. Until then, I'm off to spend my $612 elsewhere.
posted by Raider Take at 9:36 AM on Jan 8, 2009
I’m glad it’s going to someone smart enough, and willing enough, to reinvest it in playmakers like Randy Moss and LaMont Jordan
Just had to add in one of your little contradictions here...
-No more overpaying overrated free agents with known character issues, such as Randy Moss,
PantyRaider...Way Too Funny "RT"!!!/_
"RT"...
You enabled old Al to throw huge $$$$ at a known character issues like No-Moss....
PantyRaider....Oh!..This Is So Much Fun!!!/_
Take,
“Well, since you give me no credit for ever praising Mr. Davis and the Raiders, I guess the shoe's on the other foot.”
Ok, how many times have we posted disagreements with Al, then get labeled spoon benders, scissor runners, Kool-Aid drinkers and now enablers. We’re not the ones labeling folks.
“If I suggest that it's weird to trash the Gruden era and if I give Gruden some measure of credit” and “And yet that run in the early 2000s has been dismissed by several folks here as no great shakes.”
Wow, so “very good” is now the new trashing and dismissing? It was good, maybe even very good, but great? I’ve given Gruden a share of the credit for both the rise and the decline. But it seems associating him with the decline is verboten.
“If I hold Mr. Davis chiefly responsible for the failures and successes of the franchise, I am told that I'm saying it's "all" Al Davis's fault.”
Who else is on the list?
“The dumbest season in the history of the team and its considered part of a turnaround.”
Yep, could very well be. There has been a marked change in this team from personnel to attitude and management since we discovered overhead projectors still exist. Rock bottom isn’t where you want to start, but that’s what happens sometimes.
Since then gone are Walker, Hall, Russell, Warren, SOB and others, added are McClain, Houston, Murphy, J. Campbell, Seymour, Henderson, Marshall, Jackson and others and a me first attitude has been replaced with a team first attitude.
If this team wins 9 or 10 (maybe even more) games this season and makes the playoffs, this season will not be the turning point. It may well be when the turn was completed, but that news conference will have been when the pivot started.
Scorpio,
The Dolts could be weekend if he sits the full 10. They are losing a top receiver and OL. One more bonus for us.
H
"H"...
Sense "RT" said he would look up how many times we enabled Al Davis perhaps we should compile a list of how frequently he has pimped those same damn arguments...
Now maybe I'm not entirely clear on this but it seems to me that if someone posts the same thing over and over and over again he is in fact demanding compliance on that issue or why would he feel the need to re-post it so frequently...
Except to shove it down our collective throats...
PantyRaider...I'm Not That Hungry!!!!/_
PantyRaider, you are trying so hard to get me to disown my takes. Not gonna happen.
I re-read that take that you pasted, so what, sounds like a passionate fan who is fed up with his money being wasted on a petty grudge at the expense of winning being the top priority, for the privilege of watching the worst "football" he's ever seen in his life, as the Raiders set the NFL all-time record for the worst stretch of failure.
And wow, I was wrong about Moss and Jordan. Scandalous! Am I right so often that that's one of your big examples?
The question is, after Moss essentially lays a turd on the Raider Nation, defiling the notion of competitive football, why does Mr. Davis still throw roses at him?
And guess what? I don't have season tickets for 2010. I'm sure you'll be glad to pick up the tab.
I don't disown my takes. I also don't erase them. They are opinions, ideas and thoughts rendered in the moment, for all to see. Like I said, this is a diary of sorts. They may be wrong or right or somewhere in between.
As for my "demands," let's look at them:
"Before you get too excited about my conditions, consider what they boil down to: a smart, aggressive implementation of change to address what has become a record-setting culture of losing; the installation of general manager; a good head coach with at least one full year of organizational backing; sensible free agent signings; and a roster and depth chart chosen on the merits of performance, not scholarships."
I don't know, sounds like a good plan to me.
Re-pasting what PantyRaider pasted, I find this entirely reasonable:
Al Davis doesn’t care what you think! He’s the owner and he can do what he wants! You have no right to make demands or have an opinion! Blah, blah, blah.
First off, if the Raiders don’t care what I think, then they should stop conducting expensive marketing surveys asking me, as a season ticket holder, what I think. Second, I have every right to decide how I spend my money, and to publish my opinion on my own blog.
Also, I am not making demands here. I am stating conditions, which is what consumers do every day. For example, I won’t buy a Blu-ray DVD player until the prices come down. I won’t purchase an iPhone until Apple demonstrates that the 3G networking bugs have been fixed. And I won’t buy Raiders season tickets again until I see the aforementioned problems addressed.
Note that I said nothing about having to win this or that amount of games, because I know that our record will improve if these conditions are met, be it this year or in the coming years. The record will take care of itself. Nor have I said that I won't be an ardent Raiders fan any longer. I will be as ardent as ever. I'm just cutting back on my investment, not my passion.
"RT"...
As you can see I posted it in it's entirety so it would not be misunderstood...So now "CJ" and others can get off my back for repeating only what you wrote...It was not of my making...I never spoke about $$$$ as an issue of anything at all...I never used it as a way to withdraw or give support nor as a gauge as to how much support anyone was giving/not giving...
I'm more than willing to shoulder the blame for what I actually did/do but fervently/ardently refuse to take responsibility for that over which I have never had even the most insignificant amount of control...
Thus...I have never enabled a single solitary thing relating to the Raiders...
But "RT"....You have...As propitiatory of "RT" and by your own definitions you enabled Al Davis to throw tons of $$$ at a known character issue and all the abandonment of that responsibility will never earn you anything at all...
PantyRaider..."RT" The Enabler!!!/_
At least I can post legitimate examples while still waiting for you to post even one...
A quick hit talking the actual current team and upcoming season. After looking at the moves, and we are on track to have all draft choices signed, I would like to provide the following analysis for the upcoming season.
It’s pretty safe to say we have enough of a team to get five wins. So I’m going to start with that as my base.
The upgrades on defense should be enough to provide two additional wins by coming up with a stop or two late in games when we have a lead. Something that has been sorely missing.
The upgrade at QB should give at least two more wins. The health of the starters on the OL is critical here. I believe the OL play will be improved, but depth is still a question.
On special teams, if Lechler can pin a team deep with under two minutes to go (85+ yards needing at least a TD) that should at least be one victory when combined with the improvements on defense.
With Janikowski’s leg Campbell need only get the team inside the opponents 38 to have a very legitimate shot at winning with a last minute FG. Jano had one of his best years in ’09 and did not miss from inside 40 yards and was 6 of 8 from 50+. He got 95 total points with only 17 coming from PAT’s. This should contribute one and possibly two additional wins when combined with the improvements on the offense.
Should this team stay healthy, it is reasonable to expect 9 wins as a minimum. Eleven is not out of the realm of possibilities when considering the Dolts potential problems at WR and LT, and the Gelding’s head scratching first round draft. The Chefs have improved, but in my not so humble opinion they had further to go than we did.
While the DC Sunburns picked up McNabb he still has the same basic weapons to work with that Campbell did. So, I expect Campbell to have better numbers than his replacement in DC when all is said and done.
JMNSHSO
H
Oh! Profless One...
Duck-n-Hide-n-Avoid...That's your continual tactic...Like some damn politician while making unjustified accusations against any who dare to disagree with your divine opinions....
Stand up and address it for once...Where's the damn prof...It's been requested repeatedly now what do you got...
If you have nothing at all than do the manly thing and withdraw your unfounded accusations...Like a man...
PantyRaider...This Is Like Pulling Teeth!!!/_
By saying that I withdrew my support of the Raiders because I decided not to spend a certain amount of money on tickets, you ARE talking about money, PantyRaider. You've been on my back about it for more than a year.
So there's the proof that you demand.
You're not going to bully me into denying my takes or into buying season tickets. You are the only one here trying to do it, and it's getting old.
"H"...
Nice...I would confer...
My past projection was based upon our schedule but this was a different approach and an intriguing one...The schedule is difficult to project because one never really knows how teams will play in the new season...
My projection was 10-6 -n- 4-2 in the AFCW -w- possible 11-5 if we can defeat "SD" once...Our losses would be...
"AZ"...
"SD"..
Pits...
Fish...
"SD"...
Indy...
Add to your possible wins the addition of Hue Jackson as "OC"...The return of our "DL" coach from the Gruden era...
PantyRaider...More Promise Than Despair!!!/_
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