Raiders v. Bears Preseason In-Game Take
Second quarter, four minutes until halftime. Going okay, I guess. Trying to read the tea leaves here, but the picture is unclear.
Some nice movement on offense, nothing spectacular, with the all-too-familiar 90-yard run gash given up by the defense. DHB is too tired to play (yawn).
Not going to put too much stock into preseason performances. And if the Raiders were a stock, I'd give them a "hold" rating right now. Not selling, but not buying, either. Come on, Raiders! Bring the change!
Some nice movement on offense, nothing spectacular, with the all-too-familiar 90-yard run gash given up by the defense. DHB is too tired to play (yawn).
Not going to put too much stock into preseason performances. And if the Raiders were a stock, I'd give them a "hold" rating right now. Not selling, but not buying, either. Come on, Raiders! Bring the change!
posted by Raider Take at 6:49 PM
194 Comments:
"JC" is prolley done at...
Passing CP/AT YDs
"JC"...10/20 170yds 1 INT...
Bush -w- 8/26 3.2yd ave...
Murphy 3/53yds...
Not so impressive but the outcome on the 1st two possessions was nice...
K.Wimbley gets his 4th sack...
Murphy on the reverse for a measly 4yds but now everyone will have to look for that...Than Murphy gains 14 and than he has a drop...Good thing it's preseason....
"FG" adds 3...
Not beautiful so a work in progress but "JC" scrambles and keeps plays alive while the running is very suspect against da Bears...
Raiders "D" is blitzing so hopefully that continues...
S.Satele injured on a great play by Zack -n- than "CJ" fumbles the snap from "C"...Not sure who was at "C"...
Now the "D" can't stay with coverage and da Bears score...
Now we give up the 2pt conversion...Down 13-14...
Our "D" is giving up the big play without all the #1s in there...
"JC" fumbles again but Galery saves it on the sack...
Halftime stats...
...............Oak.....da Bears...
First Downs 11 8
Total Yards 211 203
Passing Yards 165 62
Rushing Yards 46 141
Penalties (Yds) 3(20) 2(29)
Turnovers 2 0
Punts (AVG) 3(40) 4(37)
Time of Pos. 18:10 11:38
PantyRaider...Still A Work In Progress!!!/_
Great! More stats!
Sad that the Raiders pretty much dominated the entire first half, but still find themselves on the losing side of the score.
The D appears to still lack discipline. Decent pass protecting, and Campbell has had time, but has little to show for it.
Wimbley is a guy that showed up for this game. Hope he can do that during the regular season.
"NYR"...
yes because he was blitzing very well...
Yes, what? What was the question?
Wimbley is a guy that showed up for this game. Hope he can do that during the regular season.
He was blitzing very well...
Well we failed to establish any resemblance of a strong running game but instead went pass happy again...
"ST"s makes points on the muff..."ST"s has played well so far today...No long run-backs...
20-14...But we lost the 1st half..
PantyRaider...Mixed Emotions But Several Pluses To Focus On!!!/_
Neither team looks like they're ready for the regular season. Pretty sloppy game.
Question is, which team wants to lose this game more than the other team? That's the team that will get it done... umm, lose, that is.
Well I'm overall happy with the "D" except for giving up a few huge plays where things broke down run-n-pass...There were many more positive plays than negative but the negs are the ones that standout sometimes...We were without Seymour/Nnamdi/"CJ"....
We already have 6+ sacks and we blitz...
It's the "O" that is really raising the questions..."OL" is suspect at times as well as the "WR"s -n- play at "QB"...So what else is new...
"QB" makes a rushing "TD"...27-14...
PantyRaider...Well Now We Get The Running Game Going!!!/_
Bend Don't Break "D" gave up ground but stiffened at the goal-line...3pts is all...27-17...
Now come on "Colt"...I wanna see what you got's...
Come on Cable you promised...Let your pet "BlackBird" sit on the bench for a few...
AssHole...Boller back in...Sucks...
PantyRaider...Can't Trust A Thing They Say!!!/_
"OK"...INT run back to the 10...Now bring in the "Colt"...
"Colt" no passes just 3 runs -n- the "FG"...
Let him play the next series and throw the ball...
"ST" now gets the "S"...Nice work for the "ST"s...2 more so 32-17...
Now common "Colt" throw some passes...
OK "Colt"...
Ford does well as "WR"s...Bennet does well running the big one...helps the stats late...
Nice 14yd completion...
OK it's over...Final stats...
First Downs 19.......11
Total Yards 338......274
Passing Yards 225......100
Rushing Yards 113......174
Penalties (Yds) 5(40)....7(58)
Turnovers 2........2
Punts (AVG) 6(43)....8(34)
Time of Pos. 34:02....25:13
"TOP" was nice so the "D" was well rested...
"ST" were great...
Pass "D" had constant pressure while the run "D" fell apart at times...Too many big runs for 174yds...
"O" was inconsistent but moved well early...
"JC" had fumble problems after the "C" change and while avoiding the rush...50% passer -w- the Int...
The rush was nonexistent most of this game...
PantyRaider....Just My 1st Perceptions Good-n-Bad!!!/_
Sounded good on the audio feed. Aside from two plays, the defense did well again.
Campbell 170 passing in a half. Decent. TD on first possession, been a while for that, don't know if we did that at all last year.
Have to wait to watch the video, for those who want to record it. 2300 Eastern time on NFL Network. Set your DVR's.
Bush ran only fair, but made up for it on the screen for 24.
Decent all around team effort, Offense, Defense and Special Teams.
But, that's the audio.
H
"H"...
I got to see the 2nd -n- 3rd quarters until my vid became too choppy to suffer threw any longer...The times we broke down it looked bad like we broke down but the other times we looked damn good considering what we have been the past 7 seasons...
It was da Bears who looked like/played like we have been recently with one stupidity after another....I felt sorry for their fans having to suffer threw all that...I know from personal experience just how painful that all is...Except for a few times where their "QB"s had the time to react is was very bad for them...We had the pressure....
They had pressure on us also but we played very well at "QB" despite that except for one of "JC"s fumbles-n-INT...It was the run that suffered at their hands...
More after I view it threw the eyes of the writers...
PantyRaider...Stats Anyone!!!/_
"Aside from two plays, the defense did well again."
You mean those two back-breaking plays that exemplify last year's D failures.
Ok, so I read some media reports of the game and came out with this nugget.
"On the offensive side of the ball it was no Darren McFadden, no Chaz Schilens, No Darrius Heyward-Bey, no problem...."
Huh? Three guys that have contributed nothing to the Raiders offense. Why should the Raiders miss them?
I watched the 89-yard TD run again. McClain ran right past the play, while it looked like one LB (Wimbley I think) was badly held. Then Forte put a move on Huff, who did his best Stuart Schweigert imitation.
The breakdowns seem simple, and often involve different players, but they can't seem to be avoided.
Before I get excited about the Raiders winning 2 preseason games, I remind myself of 2006. Nuf said.
NYRaider,
Yep, aside from two plays the defense played well. It’s preseason. The 22 yard TD was against a rookie DB (McFadden). It sounded like Cutler was running for his life on that one too. Our starting DT (Seymour) and both starting CB's were being rested.
The fumble that preceded the Cutler TD pass was not Campbell’s fault. Chris Morris came in for Satele and snapped the ball too high. Once again, according to the audio feed.
So, yes I stand by the statement. Cutler was harassed, completed less than 50% of his passes due to the pressure and was sacked multiple times.
“McClain ran right past the play,”. Well now, let’s just release the guy. Obviously that one play has shown that he is another wasted draft choice, what the hell was I thinking? Glad you set me straight on that one.
You seem to be fixating on a single play, like the Romo scramble where our CB’s had their backs to the play because they weren’t in zone coverage to show zero improvement.
Those three offensive players out of the game and we still scored on the first two possessions. Campbell made a bad decision on the third possession or we would have scored again. Bad on his part, but that happens to every QB in the league, even Saints Brady, Manning and Favre. We also had somewhere around 11 minutes time of possession in the first quarter. Another positive.
We had just under 150 yards of offense in the first quarter. Chicago had 89 yards in the first quarter. In other words, that one single play. Good improvement in one week. More variety in plays called. Good results on screens with down field blocking.
Don’t get excited, fine. I’m not excited either. I am encouraged though. On the surface it seems, except for those two plays, our first units dominated and controlled the game while they were on the field.
H
Well there was just too damn much positive crap written about my Raiders tonight so I had a tough time wading threw it all but this is the meat of it or at least what stood out to me as most important...
-----------------------------------
– Hue Jackson has the Raiders running screen passes better than any Raiders offensive coordinator in years. If McFadden can’t do some serious damage with the way Oakland executes this play, something’s seriously wrong.
– Defensive tackle Tommy Kelly and cornerback Stanford Routt, two players I wrote about earlier this week who have pay grades that far outweigh their production to date, were impressive.
– Cable is going to be mad about the pre-snap penalties on the offensive line. Guaranteed. It’s a direct reflection on him as a coach. He keeps harping on it, the line is his specialty, and it keeps happening anyway.
– Jackson’s addition of blocking schemes other than zone will make the Raiders a better team inside the 20. I like the way they powered their way to the 2-yard Boller run on a 10-play, 51-yard drive that put them up 27-14. A 14-yard pass to Michael Bennett and a 14-yard completion to rookie Jacoby Ford got Oakland to the 21. From there, they ran it six straight times right at the Bears until Boller scored.
Left offensive tackle Mario Henderson and left guard Robert Gallery matched up against defensive end Julius Peppers and defensive tackle Tommie Harris, respectively, and acquitted themselves well against two of the league's premiere defenders.
2. Michael Bush can be the Raiders' mainstay running back. That was the sneaking suspicion his first two seasons, and even more so now. It has to be reassuring, especially with Darren McFadden's injury history. McFadden (hamstring) has not played this exhibition season. Also good to see Bush (and Marcel Reece) catching short passes out of the backfield, a staple in Jason Campbell's repertoire.
5. Maybe it is just me but the center position is the most concerning one. And not because starter Samson Satele got hurt tonight. I am not sold on Satele, who might eventually develop into a strong center, but the Raiders' inexperience on offense demands a quality anchor snapping the ball. Chris Morris' first snap resulted in a fumble to Campbell in the shotgun formation. Yo, Jeremy Newberry, how 'bout a comeback?
----------------------------------
PantyRaider...Damn Pleasure To See So Keep Up The Progress!!!/_
Now for some personal "Gut Feelings" to post...
We break camp and go home this week which translates to closed practices under that "Cone-0-Silence"...So here it comes about Chaz-n-"D-Mac"-n-"DHB" who have all been held out from view of late...
I'm thinking Hue will develop these 3 into his game plans secretly and not showcase it in the preseason at all so the Titans have no idea what to prepare for...These 3 could very well constitute a very large percentage of our offensive output and the mystery silence that surrounds them is almost deafening...
Every damn "Mediot" wants the full scoop and no doubt the Titans too but that's privileged info not for all eyes to see...
PantyRaider...Need To Know basis Only!!!/_
Please lawd... let the Raiders get off to a great start so we get to see RT scramble for tickets on top of Mt Davis as he madly jumps back on the bandwagon!
"NYR"...
We're all going to see a few things that aren't right yet but prolley fixable...The best thing to do would be to keep it real and keep the perspective of comparisons to the past few seasons...Virtually everything is better than before but we're not "SB" champs yet so shouldn't be compared to them until we actually beat one of them in a real game...
If this team were to play any team the Raiders have fielded the past 7 season what would be the probable outcome...I think that's pretty well agreed upon by most on all sides of the ball...
This years team would slap the past bastards into complete and total submission and we're still improving...This game against da Bears put that in my scull as I could see us reflected in them and how our new Raiders were able to totally dismantle them piece by piece even with their high quality "QB"-n-"RB"...
So enjoy the real improvements unless of course there was another team during those piss poor 7 seasons you would rather be fielding now instead...
PantyRaider...Greatness Is By Comparison And This Team Is Great Compared To Our Last few!!!/_
H -
"'McClain ran right past the play,'. Well now, let’s just release the guy. Obviously that one play has shown that he is another wasted draft choice, what the hell was I thinking? Glad you set me straight on that one."
H, no need to be an a-hole. I was just making an observation.
I watched it several times and that's what I saw. If you read above, when it happened, I described it as a rookie mistake.
The "fumble" you think wasn't Campbell's fault was snapped shoulder high, and just outside the numbers. It looked more like a communication breakdown than a bad snap... if you're interested in my observation.
H said: "Those three offensive players out of the game and we still scored on the first two possessions."
Do you actually mean McFadden, DHB and Schilens? Come on! None has done anything in a Raiders uniform.
There's no evidence that any of these players will help the Raiders score more points.
McFadden has almost twice as fumbles than TDs since being drafted, and DHB has 9 career receptions. Schilens may be a quality WR, but he's watched more games than he's played.
And are you now comparing Campbell to Brady, Manning and Favre? Sure sounds like it. Why not just say he's the next Jim Plunket?
So far this year, it looks like Boller is the Raiders' best QB.
That's just my opinion.
Howdy-Howdy Gary long time no see...
I too got tired of the crap and departed too so totally understand the frustrating feelings...But hay!...Now wee's the ones in the know and on top of the world...Wee's that never departed into "Mutineers" and never forsook our faith in our beloved Raiders...Wee's that could see the writing on the wall as the rebuilding was slowly taking place...
And the damn funny thing is that them's who couldn't see it and tried to belittle wee's that did are now trying to disclaim the rebuilding as something that happened in less than a season like that roster was completely overturned sense January 1...Now how freakin foolish is all that...
So for my part...
"Welcome Aboard Mattie Let's Give'em Hell"...
PantyRaider...Who Who Laughs Last Laughs Loudest -n- Longest!!!/_
Can ya's dig all that laughter in the middle of all them's tears...
PR said: "[NYR] best thing to do would be to keep it real and keep the perspective of comparisons to the past few seasons...."
That's exactly what I'm trying to do.
I'm not the one comparing Campbell to Brady, Manning, and Favre (and Plunkett).
I saw the game, and I believe both teams played pretty sloppy at times. The Bears happen to look exceptionally bad, so I'm reluctant to give the Raiders more than a pat on the back for beating a really bad Bears team.
And if we're counting players we missed, let's not forget they were without arguably the best LB in football, after Urlacher went out on the first play. Plus, Peppers was absent for much of the play after he was injured.
And (in a real game) Hester would have been fielding that punt they muffed and we scored on. If we're keeping it real.
"NYR"...
No...Boller made mistakes too and against scrub talent so his stats are punctuated by an (*) denoting weak competition...And talk about "Scholarships" that one is Hue's...His boy from the "BlackBirds" who has history to be evaluated by...What was it...One good season because that "D" carried them...
"Colt" is the man but we may never know that if he isn't given the opportunity to perform on the field and showcase what he has...
PantyRaider....No Fare Compition @ #2!!!/_
"NYR"...
So in your opinion who would win between this roster and those of the past 7 seasons of futility...
PantyRaider...And No Draw Allowed!!!/_
PR said: "I'm thinking Hue will develop these 3 into his game plans secretly and not showcase it in the preseason at all so the Titans have no idea what to prepare for..."
Brilliant. The three guys that need the most work are given the least work, because we need to be secretive about how we prepare to avert our 8th consecutive, record-extending, losing season.
If that's what the Raiders are thinking..., well, priceless!
PR - How is Boller a "scholarship" player? He hasn't even made the team. I merely said I thought he's been the best QB so far, based on my watching both preseason games.
You say Boller has only played against scrubs, but he's also been supported by the Raiders' scrubs, and looked pretty good. So it's all relative.
Kyle "Fuck-Up" Boller's Stats...
TD-INT 48–49
Passing yards 8,609 7 Seasons
QB Rating 71.4
On top of that he's often injured and out for the count...
Now is this the man we want to depend upon off the bench...
PantyRaider...I Think Not!!!!/_
"NYR"...
He's Hue's pet so that's the scholarship and will most likely make the team ahead of "GradSki"...He's getting all the 2nd team snaps now so it's kinda evident I think...He's been about 50/50 in practice and throws INT's daily to our rookies...
Hell...I hope I'm wrong about all that because I don't want to have this crap stinking up the roster but that's the way it appears...He has familiarity with Hue's "O" but was relieved of his duties on that team for an unknown Joe Flaco who excelled in that "O"...I just don't see him being stable here anymore than he has been anywhere else...
"Colt" for his part just hasn't gotten the opportunities yet sitting behind others...I would like to see what he has outside of practice where he has looked good so far...
PantyRaider...Quality Back-Up Needed!!!/_
PR -
So don't believe my lying eyes? Is that it?
Gradkowski is getting paid as a backup, but has been injured. If Boller supplants him as backup, he could be a roster casualty. That's how the NFL works.
PR said: “So in your opinion who would win between this roster and those of the past 7 seasons of futility...”
Well, let’s see. Asomugha, Lechler and Seabass have been on the roster the whole time, so it’s safe to say these guys, by themselves, don’t make the team any better. Same could be said of Tommy Kelly and Robert Gallery (since 2004).
Sam Williams is the ultimate scholarship player, and he’s still here.
I don’t think Campbell is any better on paper than Dante Culpepper or even Aaron Brooks. And Kerry Collins lit it up after he left the Raiders, so that’s a tough call.
Zack Crockett is hands down better than any FB we currently have.
Past 7-season LBs have included Eric Barton, Danny Clark and Bill Romanowski.
We are sorely deficient at WR, while the past 7-season WRs have included Randy Moss, Tim Brown, Jerry Rice and Ronald Curry (before the injury).
We had RBs like Charlie Garner and Tryrone Wheatley.
Langston Walker was here seven years ago, and is now back, despite being released for his ineffectiveness. Same with Chris Cooper. How did these guys find their way back?
We had D-linemen like DT Roderick Coleman, DT John Parrella, DT Ted Washington and DE Derick Burgess.
Charles Woodson and Philip Buchanan wasn’t such a bad CB tandem.
We used to have Lincoln Kennedy at RT instead of Walker/Barnes.
I could keep going.
What’s your point, PR?
Raiders have had plenty of talent the past seven years. They just couldn’t play football as a team.
"their high quality "QB"-n-"RB"..."
Cutler sucks, his throws were horrible, their O-line could be worse than the Raiders. Raiders D was all over them, but once again, the scheme gets burned for a big run. It's hard to balance how good the Raider D played compared to how poor the Chicago O is.
Poor coaching was evident on many occassions. Satele gets hurt, the put in Morris, on his first snap from scrimmage, they make him snap in shotgun. Now come on, deep in your own end, new center, you don't call shotgun. Campbell is late reacting and give it up. Then the Raiders had the ball near the end of the half and instead of playing down the clock, they call poor calls and give the ball back with plenty of time on the clock.
Just seems like they play dumb football and that will hurt vs respectable teams in the Reg season. The defense is playing good aggressive ball, thing is, seen that before in pre season, once Reg season starts, it always goes back to the usual. It was a good opening drive followed by so so...Campbell doesn't look that good, he doesn't seem to be making the passes, his accuracy is questionable.
Qb is still a big ?, O-line was making a pocket, didn't like the way Campbell reacted when he got hit the one time he stayed down. He's going to have to take the punishment that Raider Qb's have been enduring for quite a while. Could see a few Qb's again this year.
JONES
Overall, I was pleased with the Raiders performance in this 2nd exhibition game.
I liked Campbell's mobility and poise on the field.
Wimbley was impressive with his relentless pressure and multiples moves to get to the QB.
Desmond Bryant played solid football inside which bodes well for our DT rotation.
Tommy Kelly also looks like he has taken his off-season conditioning more seriously.
The 2 big screens (Bush, Reece) were well designed and executed.
If anything, this pre-season game showed a mix between some of the positives (front 4 pass rush, overall rush D minus 1 big play, solid special teams) and areas of concern (WR unit, OLine, propensity to give up big changing plays).
Based on the 2 games that I watched, Boller is hot on the heels of Ski for the #2 QB role.
Brett Favre will play tonight. We can match his skills (without the benefit of training camp) against Campbell's, as suggested here.
To me, the most telling game the Raiders will play during preseason will be next Sat against the 49ers, who play tonight.
The Niners embarrassed the Raiders last year in team scrimmages.
First team players should get their longest loook, including at least some time for McFadden, DHB and Schilens.... i.e., unless their participation is too secretive to be made public.
“H, no need to be an a-hole. I was just making an observation.”
I wasn’t being an a-hole. I was being sarcastic. There’s a difference. But, you do seem to fixate on one or two plays to bring out the negativity. I understand the “prove it” attitude. Got no argument with it.
The fumble was described as an “early snap” by Greg Papa and Tom Flores, along with being high. My reason for pointing it out is without that fumble Cutler doesn’t get the chance. Plus, he had to go four downs to get it. In regular season they go for a field goal and we are talking about what a good stand the defense made.
Now, I am on record as wanting to draft someone else besides McFadden and DHB, and I agree they have done very little. But, much is expected from them. My point is, without them we still played well against Da Bears first team defense. And, without three starters on Defense the first unit still played well.
Yes, I’m comparing Campbell to the current NFL Quarterback Trinity. During the course of a season they will throw an interception at the wrong time. So, I’m cutting Campbell some slack on that one for now. I’d love for him to be the next Jim Plunkett, but Boller actually fits the description more. He’s coming back from the trash heap. We traded for Campbell who had good numbers with Washington.
Boller more fits the Plunkett template, but I’ll have to see him with the starters against the other team’s starters before I say he’s the better of the two.
Just my opinion.
Calico,
That’s pretty much the way I heard it. I’ve set the DVR to record it tonight so I can watch it tomorrow.
H
NYRaider,
Yes, we will see about Favre. But, over the years I’ve become less enamored with him as a “team” guy. The players actually had to ask publically if he was coming back. He could have come to the opening of camp and been there with the team the whole time and taken it easy.
But, my comparison, and the context with which I stated it, still stands.
H
H -
Favre is what, 41? He's a family man, and a stand-up player. It's quite apparent his teammates love him.
He effectively needs little or no rehearsal for his 19th +/- season, so showing up late shouldn't matter... particularly to a Raiders' fan.
And how do we know that Vikings management didn't know all along that Brett Favre was going to play this year?
Since when is it the team's responsibility to inform its players? That doesn't happen in Oakland. Why should it happen anywhere else?
By extension, why is it unacceptable that the Vikings may have withheld info about their team from the media, yet the Raiders can operate in a "cone-of-silence" in which the media has no clue.
That's right, PR thinks the Raiders are secretly game-planning with DHB, McFadden and Schilens for the Titan's game with none of the aforementioned getting any reps in open practices or preseason games.
Yes "NYR" your correct as I speculated...Gut feeling...Hue has something secretively developing for Chaz/"D-Mac"/"DHB"...But where the hell did I post this...
---------------------------------
with none of the aforementioned getting any reps in open practices or preseason games.
---------------------------------
My My how you can twist things...Here is what I said...
I'm thinking Hue will develop these 3 into his game plans secretly and not showcase it in the preseason at all so the Titans have no idea what to prepare for...
They could play a little without showcasing what is being developed...
As for your listing of players on those past rosters that was very funny...I didn't think you would be able to find anything positive about any of those team rosters/coaches from your period of "Doom-n-Gloom"...Good job...So maybe if you assembled the best we had in their primes and the best coaches they might have a chance against this roster/coaches...
In my opinion all things considered...No team aside from the diminishing "SB" losing team of "03" was as good as what we now have re: Roster-n-Coaches and would get "Bitch-Slapped" in a game...I guess I neglected to consider that "03" team as part of the past losing seasons but they were as soon as Gannon went down...
Even if you assemble the best coaches it will still have "SOB" as "DC" so I'm feeling very confident right now...
PantyRaider...We Will Have Difficulty Making Cut-Downs to 53!!!/_
As for Boller he was brought in for help due to injuries without much hope of gaining a permanent roster spot...Those injuries have been stubborn so now he looks to have a chance but I don't like this guy...I don't see him as a dependable player...
He is one of those "QB"s that can show flashes and than go deep into the dungeon of "SucksVille" without warning...Like Rick Mire...His consistent #'s are very poor as I posted...
I don't recall off hand but would wager Plunket's #'s were good early on with "NE" but he was often injured...Guess I will have to look that up now and get back...
PantyRaider...Old Tigers Remain Old Tigers!!!/_
Jim Plunkett stats...
NFL Draft: 1971 / Round: 1 / Pick: 1
1971 UPI AFL-AFC Rookie of the Year
1980 NFL Comeback Player of the Year
2x Super Bowl champion (XV, XVIII)
7 seasons prior to Raiders...
TD-INT...84-117...
Total Yds Pass...13,217yds...
Rush...983yds...10 TD's...
% Complete...48.4%...
OK...Not very much difference I guess although he was way more talented by all perceptions than Kyle Boler is...
PantyRaider...Still Can't Trust Boller!!!/_
H:
The Raiders game was showed taped delayed in the LA market on a local channel (KTLA, Channel 5) at 12:00 midnight Saturday. I DVRd it and watched it today.
The worst thing about the preseason games is having to endure Atkinson's "reports" and interviews on the sideline. The guy brings nothing to the broadcast but mumbled, jumbled, dummy observations. Greg Papa is very professional, lucid, and nice to listen to. I wish I could say the same for Plunk and Flores.
Other CJ observations:
Routt, Ware, and McFadden did a decent job in pass coverage.
The fumbled snap from Morris looked like Campbell wasn't ready for it ... meaning, it looked like Morris snapped it a beat early. It was catchable but seemed to catch Campbell off-guard.
We are definitely mixing up our blocking schemes with more power blocking, man on man blocking, and an emphasis on the guards pulling.
There also seems to be a mix of pass rusher schemes using the outside LBs (Wimbley, Scott) playing hybrid LB/DE roles.
The biggest improvement that I've seen to date is our defensive front 7's play in terms of gap control, being stiffer at the point of attack, and creating a relentless pass rush. Cable made the comment that Wimbley is the 1st SLB he's had who could neutralize the FB on rushes to the strong side.
The SF exhibition game is the closest we will come to a true indicator of the team's progress since traditionally, the 2nd to last exhibition game is when the coaches really try to gauge their starting unit's execution. SF is also a nice test because both the OL and DL is very physical.
PR -
Every year the perception is the Raiders have improved their roster. Why should this year be any different?
In no way am I ready to prop this team above any of the last seven teams.
While the D has potential to be decent, the offense is suspect at O-line, WR, RB, FB and QB. Lots of "?"
“Favre is what, 41? He's a family man, and a stand-up player. It's quite apparent his teammates love him.”
My opinion is if he is a team player and under contract he should be at camp when it starts, or announce his intentions on when he will be there, or retire. And, if he is truly not coming back next year, he should be there doing what he can to insure the team is in good hands from a quarterback standpoint when he does retire.
The Horned Helmets are paying a ton of money, he should have been there. There are also reports that some players ain’t real happy with the kid glove treatment Childress is giving Favre, so the love isn’t universal.
What will be the stance from the team in three years when Adrian Peterson, or some other top player, says “I’ll be there when I get there.”
Now, here’s some quotes from players:
“The mission was clear, Jared Allen said of his trip to Mississippi this week with teammates Steve Hutchinson and Ryan Longwell.
"”We needed a 'yes' or a 'no," Allen said. "One way or the other. We were starting to get along in this preseason and that was it."
The group carried a "message from the locker room," according to Hutchinson.”
Things weren’t exactly copasetic for everyone in Vikingville. Not if three team members have to leave camp and go to his house 800 miles away and get an answer.
Something like that should never happen. If you are under contract, show up. Even if you don’t like your contract. You signed it and other people are also counting on you. You owe it to them.
The link to the article for those interested, http://tinyurl.com/2uf2xab
Correction:
It was not McFadden who was beaten on the TD pass by Cutler, it was Jeremy Ware. Still a rookie, but I don’t want to hang something on Walter he didn’t do.
Calico,
If it were me I would do away with sideline reporters all together. They add nothing to the game.
Also, based on your observations, I saw some of that in the Cowgirl game. The LB’s, especially on first and second down, are within three yards of the line of scrimmage. Many times the SLB was on the LOS on top of the TE.
The SF game this week will definitely be interesting.
H
One quick caveat on the opening game in Nashville.
The weather this summer in the southeast has been brutal this summer. Weeks on end with the temps well over 90 and humidity levels at or above 90% also. I hope the players start hydrating 24 hours in advance of the game.
This after one of the coldest winters in a hundred years.
H
"NYR"...
That's OK because I have already anointed them in your absence...
"H"...
Was it really that cold there...Wow!...Makes me damn glad I'm in the heat but looking forward to my trip back to "RaidersVille" sometime in September depending on when I can get a reasonable ticket price...
I think that 1st week of the season is going to be huge and wanted to be there for it...Prolley not going to happen now so maybe I can make an early home game instead...
Meanwhile I will continue to suffer with the slow net while trying to get a view of what is really going on...
Things like this keep me very positively optimistic...
The Raiders notched six sacks against the Bears. That gives them 12 in two games. Eight of those 12 came against starting quarterbacks Tony Romo (Cowboys, three) and Jay Cutler (Bears, five).
Now that's improvement in anyone's book over what we have been...Add in the INT's and such and we look to have a "D" again...
Anyone for bringing back "SOB"...
PantyRaider...Glory Days Still Ahead!!!/_
"H"-n-"CJ"...
Mostly from what I have read the left side of the "OL" played very well and the right side was adequate but problems were at "C"...My view was only of the 2nd-n-3rd quarters and than it stuttered just enough to keep me from being able to really concentrate on what was happening...
I would be interested in what you see regarding the "OL" play...Run blocking was said to be strong although we gained very little on the ground early on...Left side pass blocking was said to be pretty good...
PantyRaider...Wishing I Had Eyes!!!/_
H -
You point a finger at Favre and the Vikings for their protocol, but never at the Raiders for theirs. See the irony?
So the Vikings players didn’t know the scoop. So what? I repeat, since when is it the team’s responsibility to inform the players?
See the double-standard you’re setting for another NFL team?
Favre was recovering from surgery. As a result, his status was somewhat uncertain. How do you know he didn’t have an open line of communication with Vikings’ management?
You make it sound like the players were pissed off, so they flew to Favre's home to confront him.
NYRaider,
Nice try but, I don’t know their protocol and neither do you. I’m commenting on an individual, not an organization.
Why did three players have to go to his house and basically say, “put up or, shut up?” As for the surgery, he could have come to camp and continued his rehab there where he could attend all the meetings and watch the film with the team.
You were all over an eight year veteran for his “mysterious” four day absence before the start of last season and the “letter” the Raiders had to send to him. If Favre hadn’t made his mind up, well his teammates sent him a message from the locker room telling him it was time.
My point is simply this. If you are under contract, show up. If there are reasons for you not being there, you tell the team members. Don’t wait for three teammates to show up on your doorstep wanting to know what is going on.
H
NYRaider,
I don't know if they were pissed or not. I wasn't there. But, from the statements from Allen and Hutchenson, one could infer they were reaching the upper limit of their patience.
"We needed a yes, or a no."
"One way or the other."
"message from the locker room."
Answer this. Your mission is to reach the Super Bowl. You've spent years putting the talent in place to do it. The guy who is supposed to lead you to the promise land is in Hattisburg, Mississippi hemmng and hawing. What is your reaction if you are in camp busting your butt to do your part?
H
H -
The Vikings didn't send anyone down to Favre's house. Players took it upon themselves to “recruit” Favre. I think that's the ultimate compliment. These guys hold Favre in the upmost respect and admiration.
But once again, how do we know that the Vikings didn't know what Favre was doing?
Favre made it clear in the media that he wasn’t sure what would happen, and the Vikings (Childress) made it clear they would leave the door open for Favre, on his own terms.
That was their choice, and that appears to be how it played out.
Why is NOT OK for the Vikings and Favre to handle their business in their own way, but it is OK for Cable (and the Raiders) to not inform Raiders' players he's still the head coach, when clearly he was on the bubble to begin this offseason? Or is bringing back a second-year HC off a 5-11 record and a plethora of personal issues a no-brainer?
NYRaider,
First, I never said the Vikings “sent” anyone down there. I said this “Why did three players have to go to his house” I did not mention who made the decision.
And, where am I saying I give a rat’s ass about how the Horned Helmets run their business from a management standpoint. Please find that quote.
I’m talking about players. Players who felt the need to find out what the guy was going to do. Which Favre himself should have been doing. My opinion is about the relationship between Favre and the players on the team. I don’t give a crap if management knew and were passing secret messages with Favre about his status. Even if they were I don’t have the secret decoder ring.
How many other ways am I going to have to say it? I’ve never even insinuated management. Strictly players.
Is that plain enough for you.
Management and Childress may have left the door open for Favre “on his own terms”, but it evidently wasn’t setting well with some players.
It’s just that simple. You are making this way too complicated in some convoluted attempt to get me to say something negative about the “cone of silence”. One last time, I don’t give a rat’s ass about how they run their franchise and I never mentioned I did.
Now that that’s out of the way, would you please answer my question from my previous post.
H
H said: "You are making this way too complicated in some convoluted attempt to get me to say something negative about the “cone of silence”.
LOL.
That doesn't change the fact that Raiders' players were no more informed about Cable's status as HC to begin this offseason than Vikings players were about Favre, except that it was Favre's decision to make.
Careful you don't set a double-standard.
The Vikings were moving forward with Jackson and Sage Rosenfels as their QBs, assuming one would be starter and one backup, should Favre not return.
I see the trek to Favre's house more as a group of players on a mission to bring Favre back for one last try. They did not go down there and disrespect the man. This team has a bond that exceeds the Raiders by 10. If they fail it won't be for lack of coaching, talent, team leadership or the heart to win.
From the media:
"Coach Tom Cable told reporters on a conference call Monday Schilens may need an arthroscopic procedure on his knee."
Would it be redundant for me to say the Raiders need help at WR?
What's it gonna take?
GREAT! another porcelain doll we have in schilens! i really was gonna give him a chance to come back from his latest injury but this guy just can't stay healthy! time to get some veteran receiver help!
"I see the trek to Favre's house more as a group of players on a mission to bring Favre back for one last try."
You're certainly entitled to your opinion. I saw it as a make up your mind, as in "Yes or no".
And, if you are going to insinuate some sort of double standard, would please back it up with something substantial as opposed to these verbal gymnastics.
H
NYRaider,
By the way. With all the verbal gymnastics, you have still yet to answer the question. It's pretty simple.
H
With Shilens out again for the third time in as many seasons with another knee scope; this is why I was hoping for the Raiders to sign some veteran leadership in that position.
Not too mention, 2 big plays missed by the defense that hurt us from winning games last season. It only takes a couple a game, and bam, we lose 2 or 3 winnable games. Luckily, this wasn't regular season, and we pulled through. I feel had it been a regular season game, we may have lost.
Well, now that DHB is "rested", the skies the limit with him? Maybe Jevon Walker will be let go from the Vikes, he knows this Offense.
JONES
H...you luv the verbal gymnastics, stop with the coy roy.
JONES
Going into the 2010 season with Murphy and DHB as the starting WRs is shameful. It is shameful for a few key reasons;
#1 - Both guys only have 1 year under the belt.
#2 - The lack of quality depth, experience, and proven performance in this WR group is, bar none, the worst I have EVER seen. Add up all the years of NFL service plus the TOTAL receptions for this collective group.
#3 - As it stands, Murphy is are ONLY proven commodity and he had less than 40 receptions and played only 60% or less of the offensive snaps last year.
This lack of foresight in having a serviceable WR corps is inexcusable.
Going into the 2010 offseason, the following could be said with reasonable certainty;
#1 - Schillens has yet to prove he can withstand the rigors of the NFL. His injury history is filled in 3 short years. His record is a guy who can not stay on the field.
#2 - DHB is a MAJOR project. 9 receptions in 10 games started ... enough said.
#3 - The WRs fighting for rosters spots (Watkins, Miller, Figurs, Boudford (sp?), JLH, Ford) have yet to prove anything in the NFL.
During the offseason, it was crystal clear to most of us that our WR corps needed at least 1 proven veteran. Now at it stands, we really need to add 2 proven veteran WRs to make this a somewhat competent group that can give our passing attack some semblance of a threat.
If and when proven WRs get cut for roster pare downs, we had BETTER be aggressive, active, and vigilant in securing the services of WRs who can add stability and production to the group.
Chaz is one of those talented athletes who's body can't endure what his heart is motivated to do...I see allot of that in many different sports...Had he opted for basketball he may have made it but this is just too physical of a game and takes a toll even on the most durable bodies that enter...
His lanky frame turns out to be very fragile and that was also the case at the lower level which is prolley why he was still available when we picked him...Macaferty looked the same but could take tremendous punishment and keep getting back up...Chaz hasn't shown he can do that yet and now I have serious doubts that he ever will...
So much for my hopeful speculations regarding Hue's plans in secrecy...Now I start to worry that "D-Mac"-n-"DHB" may have something unreported also under that "Cone-0-Silence"...
As far as another "WR" vet...WHO...I have asked that question this entire off-season...While many are demanding results in the free-market none are willing to go after Plexico -or- "TO" types and who the hell else was out there...That's an extremely thin position in "FA" this season and the ones with high talent went for big bucks-n-picks that none were willing to give up on this board.
Now your all kinda stuck with what is because you refused to "Enable" the Raiders to go after the players who were available and needed...Ha! Ha! Ha!...You failed to "Enable" and now you want to cry about it...How sad!!!...Too bad!!!...
Meanwhile we still have a disabilitirized "DHB" and you will all just have to depend upon him...Ya see...I'm happy to do that so no problem here from an "Enabeler" like me who "Enabled" my team to go out and overturn our roster and bring in some coaching help and get this thing on the right road all under the watchful eye and hands of Mr Al Davis...
PantyRaider...Oh!...So Painful For "Some" To See!!!/_
Just a short look at what we have coming up...
Tenn vs AZ...
Tenn ran well -n- AZ's run "D" has problems while their run "O" was nonexistent...
Personal Evaluation: We knew Tenn would be tough to stop running so nothing new there...
"AZ" looks to be an easier game than it would have been last season...Lianert doesn't strike fear and they don't have that "WR" core anymore while the run is weak..
Denver-vs-Detroit...
"MuleHead"s got gashed on the run giving up 5yd ave on 30 carries while they managed only 75yds on 20 attempts for a 3.8yd ave...
They were efficient passing but not great and gave up 4 sacks...
Personal Evaluation: One dimensional team -w- a good rookie "RB" but weak against the run and inconsistent passing -w- protection problems we should be able to exploit...
"SD"-vs-Dallas..
Neither team did well rushing...Less than 3yd ave...
Passing "SD" gave up 3 sacks and 2 INT's...Rivers 11/15 was decent #'s but nothing to show except an INT...
Personal Evaluation: Not allot known yet but "SD" seams to be slipping and now have a player facing suspension...
"KC"-vs-"TB"....
"KC" can run the ball which we already knew...152yds -w- 4.5yd ave...They only gave up 3.8yd ave rushing...
Passing is another story giving up 2 sacks -w- 2 INT's and allowing an 8.5yd ave to "TB" per pass...Matt Cassel was efficient though at 14/19 125yds 1 TD...
Personal Evaluation: Still early but appear to be a one dimensional team...Stop their run and they are ours...
"SF"-vs-Minn...
Neither team was good on 3rd dn -w- less than 40% efficiency...
"SF" couldn't run with a 2.6yd ave on 31 for 80yds but were gashed by the run for a 5.7yd ave on 20 runs for 114yds...
Passing A Smith was 9/13 for 80yds and nothing else but their "D" gained 4 sacks and limited Minn to a measly 2.1yd ave per pass...
Personal Evaluation: One dimensional team that we should be able to slap this week...Stuff their weak ass run and take away their pass...
The test will be against their "D" to see if we can protect in the passing game...We should come out and run the ball down their throats and pass of the runs success...
PantyRaider...3-0 Pre-Season Start!!!/_
H said: "Answer this. Your mission is to reach the Super Bowl. You've spent years putting the talent in place to do it. The guy who is supposed to lead you to the promise land is in Hattisburg, Mississippi hemmng and hawing. What is your reaction if you are in camp busting your butt to do your part?"
First of all, that's not how it played out. Last year was supposed to be Favre's swan song. This year, the Vikes knew and accepted the situation as presented. What more do I need to say.
Worse yet, Raider fans continue to wait for the Raiders to smarten up and sign a vet WR... to bolster a mostly inexperienced and arguably incompetent group.
It's not gonna happen by magic.
QU: How long will Schilens remain on the roster this year before he plays a snap?
Cable said: "Hopefully we don’t lose Chaz for any time here. But if it does happen I do think we’re developing that group."
Translation: the Raiders have no intention of signing another WR.
Realistically, it could be another season or two before the Raiders WR position group reaches a competitive NFL level, i.e., assuming DHB can dramatically improve on his 9 receptions last year and actually lead this group. (Yikes!)
Best case, the Raiders are determined to stick with the 10-year plan.
NYRaider,
“First of all, that's not how it played out. Last year was supposed to be Favre's swan song. This year, the Vikes knew and accepted the situation as presented.”
First of all, I didn’t ask how it was “supposed” to play out. I asked how you would feel about it? If last year was his “swan song” he could have said, “that’s it” or done the Warren Sapp method and posted “I’m done” on his website, if he has one.
Secondly, you want to compare the end of season “cone of silence” evaluation of the team to a supposed three weeks before the first live game “cone of silence” about your maybe starting quarterback’s indecision on maybe I want to play, maybe I don’t, I can’t make up my mind. I guess it would have been ok with you, as a player, if he just showed up September 10th and said, “I’m here, all is well.”
Thirdly, I’m speaking specifically to the relationship between players. You keep trying to say I’m condoning some theoretical management decision. I’m not. I don't care what arrangement the Horned Helmets management had with him. Can’t say it any simpler than that.
I’m talking apples, you’re talking oranges, or maybe it kumquats and prunes? I’m not sure.
Now, moving on, Saturday’s game is going to be a huge test of the weakest part of our O-line, center, right guard and right tackle. Patrick Willis playing ILB went up the gut to get Favre. Satele had trouble with a strong rush up the middle last game.
Henderson held his own when he was in the game against Julius Peppers. Gallery made up for his holding/false start with a very good downfield block on the screen pass to Bush.
Bush had success on the right side when Gallery pulled to that side.
Right now, Campbell seems to have better accuracy when he sets and throws quickly. Read, decide, throw, no waiting to think it over. His sideline throws are still just a hair off, another one caught out of bounds. His mobility paid dividends on at least two plays, including running for a first down and diving headfirst with the ball instead of sliding. He seemed better in command of the offense than Cutler did of his.
If Chaz is out, I say move Zach Miller to the slot receiver position. I also then look for 50 – 70 catches for Murph and 75 – 90 for Miller with a 1,000 yard season. Keep moving forward.
H
"NYR"...
What up with all the tears...
Just Run-Run-Run-n-Dump Off To "RB"s-n-"TE"s Baby and pass off of that to the "WideOuts" and ya don't need that tremendous talent at the "WR" position while we depend upon that "D" to keep us in the games...Than as the "WR"s develop more can be added and next season we address it the way we have addressed everything else...
We get's "DHB"s big brodder...Plexico "GunMan" Burris ...Ha! Ha! Ha! and listen to you cry all damn year under that "Cone-0-Denial"...
Hell...Zack is more than capable of being our #1 receiver and the "Murf" can play back-up role while the others like "DHB"-n-"JeCob" keep dragging everyone deep and out of position to stop that run...
OR...We just move your favorite poster boy to "WR" and let him run occasionally and we have our #1-or-#2 "WR"..."D-Mac" can do it Baby!!!...
No need to worry yourself into a frenzy when I already have all the answers right here for ya...
PantyRaider..Sheech!!!...Not A Positive In Site!!!/_
Seems I'm not the only one predicting smoother sailing for the 1st few games of the regular season...This from your favorite "Mediot" "J-Mac"...
Based on Monday night’s Arizona-Tennessee game, the Raiders ought to be at least 2-1 after three games. The opener in Nashville will be rough, with an extremely difficult defensive opponent played in high heat and humidity. But the home opener against St. Louis and Sam Bradford (A.J. Feely is hurt) in Week 2 and the Cardinals in Week 3 is a nice bit of scheduling.
Both Matt Leinart and Derek Anderson struggled to complete the most basic pass. The Cardinals, without Kurt Warner and Anquan Boldin, looked lost.
PantyRaider...Nice!...Hope It Holds Up!!!/_
"H"...
We have a 2nd "TE" who is pretty good too so 2 "TE" sets wouldn't be out of the question either...
"D-mac" may be better suited to playing "WR" with the backfield threat of running sweeps-n-reverse added in along with the short stuff they already have planned...
Bush as our #1 "RB" -w- back-up from Bennett and questions at the "FB" position still left undecided...
A strong running game will make it easier on the "QB" and also the "OL" while pass blocking...
With the play of the left side of the "OL" looking improved we could see "Student Body Left" as a staple so the pressure is relieved from our weaknesses on the right side...I would start sticking the young guys in there now and get them up to par as soon as possible because the vets we have on that side aren't going to get any better...
The key to this season is going to be that "D" and how well it can keep it close and keep us in the games...
PantyRaider...Not Time To Panic Just Go With The Strengths -n- Minimize The Effects Of Our Weaknesses!!!/_
H -
What’s the big deal? So a few players went down to Favre’s house and pleaded with him to give it another try. The guy is 41, and has been in the league for approx. 20 years. If the Vikings win the SB this year, that scene will be in Favre’s film biography.
Some media coverage I saw portrayed it as a selfish act by the Vikes players to recruit Favre away from his family, as he has stated for several years he wants to spend more time with them.
As for the relationship between players, we’re not supposed to believe in chemistry. Right? It’s a business. S**t happens in business.
Except, now, the Vikings are a team for which that “forbidden” chemistry exists at a high level. And we are left to only wish that could happen to the Raiders.
So don't ask me what I “would” think... blah, blah, blah. Instead, think for a second how Vikings players now feel to have Favre back.
Ok, I’ll bite. If I’m a Vikings’ player, I’m pretty freakin’ stoked.
PR said:
"...ya don't need that tremendous talent at the "WR" position...."
Huh? We don't even have mediocre talent at WR. When you remove Schilens, it's worst in the league, hands down.
But you keep living the fantasy of secret game-planning and the Raiders will be fine.
PR said: "Seems I'm not the only one predicting smoother sailing for the 1st few games of the regular season...."
No team in the NFL is a pushover, particularly for the Raiders.
Some here leave the bizarre impression that the Raiders are the ONLY team preparing for the season.
NYRaider,
"What’s the big deal? So a few players went down to Favre’s house and pleaded with him to give it another try."
First of all, according to the comments, they were asking him to make a decision, yes or no.
Secondly, do you really think Jared Allen is into begging and pleading? I don't. Part of his job is to hit quarterbacks as hard as he can and put them on the ground.
Seriously, could you see Phil Villapiano pleading with a quarterback to give it one more try. It would be more like, "Get your ass into camp or retire, I don't care. Just give me an answer today, now. We've got a season to get ready for."
But, it was also said Villapiano would start a fist fight with his grandmother if he thought it would help win a game.
Based on your arguments here I can only assume you are in the Al Davis camp that team chemistry is overrated. It happens to be one of the areas where I disagree with the big guy.
So, if you think chemistry between the players is meaningless, that's your opinion.
H
Panty,
I wouldn't mind seeing what Vlad and Bruce could do with some extended time at center and RG, with Henderson and Gallery on the left. Maybe we will see something like that in game four.
Still have the problem at LT though. At least Walker didn't false start Saturday. He left that to Gallery.
McFadden at WR is a thought.
H
H said: "Secondly, do you really think Jared Allen is into begging and pleading?"
That's exactly right. Brett Favre said in a TV interview that Allen (and the others) asked if he would come back and play for the Vikings "as a favor to them."
I couldn't believe my ears.
Did you watch the game Sunday night? That's when they aired the interview.
"McFadden at WR is a thought."
We can't get him to play RB, so how's he going to play WR?
The reason the Vikings bent over backwards to bring Favre back is simple. He's an elite QB, and it's extremely hard these days to win big in the NFL without a top-flight QB. Look at last year's division winners, and then ask yourself who was the best QB in each division, and you will see a massive correlation. That's the NFL of today. It's a passing league.
The Raiders should put some bunk beds on their sidelines.
This way, DHB, and Mcfragile can fight over who gets top bunk.
While the game is on, DHB can get his rest, and Mcfragile can mend his endless injuries.
The bunks can be placed over by the Raiderettes, so they could dance around it.
And Al Davis can read DHB, and Mcfragile a bedtime story before each game.
Let the games begin !! zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
"That's the NFL of today. It's a passing league."
So, I guess having a couple healthy and capable WRs might be in order.
Raider00 - instead of bunk beds, maybe they could just stack trainer's tables on the sideline to make them look like bunkies. That should help "McFragile" and DHB feel right at home.
Here’s J-Mac’s take on Chaz Schilens and the Raiders:
“Good guy, good talent, bad body. It was a major roll of the dice when the Raiders opted not to pursue a veteran receiver.”
Ah! Sanity at last.
Has anyone been watching or reading about the HBO special featuring the Jets? They are stacked at FB. Two talented young guys and vet Tony Richardson. Since three’s a crowd at the FB position, Richardson is likely a roster casualty.
There has been talk on various blogs that the Raiders should pursue whomever the Jets release at FB.
I totally agree. Any one of their FBs is a significant upgrade for the Raiders.
PR said:
"...ya don't need that tremendous talent at the "WR" position...."
PR - Offenses in the NFL over the past 15+ years has evolved. Passing attacks are the most critical component to a successful offense more so than ever.
I suggest you read Greg Easterbrook's column in ESPN today. He breaks down this evolution very clearly.
To suggest that not having 1 single WR who has produced more than 40 receptions in a single season is not a MAJOR concern is sugar plum and fairly land thinking.
If the season were to start today, this is what we would be looking at in terms of production and years of NFL experience:
PUP - Chaz Shillens; 2 years experience; 44 career receptions, 4 career TDs
#1 WR - Murph; 1 year experience; 34 career receptions, 4 career TDs
#2 WR - DHB; 1 year experience; 9 career receptions, 12 career TD
#3 WR - JLH; 3 years experience; 47 career receptions, 0 (reception) career TDs
#4- WR - Watkins; 2 years experience; 8 career receptions, 0 career TDs
#5- WR - Ford; 0 years experience; 0 career receptions, 0 career TDs
#6- WR - Miller; 0 years experience; 0 career receptions, 0 career TDs
Our top WR (Murphy) has 34 receptions and 1 year under his belt.
obvious typo ...
it should read 1 career TD for DHB not 12!
Just a few Positives -w- a Negative....
---------------------------------
– Quarterback Bruce Gradkowski will see considerable action in the last two preseason games, although Cable would not commit as to whether he would go in as No. 2 or No. 3.
– Wide receiver Darrius Heyward-Bey returned to practice and looked the better for sitting out four practices with “fatigue,” making a few plays after dropping off in the sessions that preceded his absence. Running back Darren McFadden was also back on the field.
– Wide receiver Chaz Schilens underwent arthroscopic knee surgery. Coach Tom Cable was not sure how long he would be out.
"CJ"...
I you read my suggestions I covered that with one of the few true options the Raiders have considering the real life circumstances that we now face without all the damn "Tear Drops"...
#1 Receiver "TE" Zack as "H" also suggested and as has already been the case with this team...Also using the 2-"TE" scheme more frequently to get both our "TE"s active in the game as receivers...
#2 "WR" Murphy...
#3 "WR"/"RB" Slash "D-Mac" as is being developed out of the backfield as a "RB" plus getting him more into the game as a "WR"...
#4 "WR"s "DHB"/Jecoby as the deep threats that force the "DB"s to play back off the "LOS" and out of run support...
#5 Strong running game as #1 weapon -w- Bush/Bennett...
#6 Dump-offs to the "RB"s in short passing scheme as is already being developed...
#7 Chaz added to the mix when healthy and others as they develop...
#8 "FB"s used in the short passing game as is already being developed and go after that Jets "FB" when he becomes available...
#9 Rely upon the "D" to keep us in the games...
#10 Address the "WR" deficiency at the end of the season -w- Plexico "GunMan" Burris and other acquisitions that present themselves as realistic legitimate possibilities...
Now for #11 that I keep asking with no answer in sight...
Who the hell should we have gone after to settle this problem this season...
"TO"...
Did you want to give up the price to "AZ"...
Did you want to draft one in the 1st 2 rds instead of who we got on the "D" or at #3-4 instead of the "OL" help...
Talking crap about it doesn't solve a thing...Look for legitimate ways to deal with the real issues that we face...
And as for what the NFL has become those are trends and everyone follows whatever is working well at the moment...If it's the "WCO" everyone wants to run it...If the Raiders win well with a power running game supported by dumping off to the "RB"s-n-"TE"s -w- a Slash "RB"/"WR" -n- Deep Speed to stretch the "DB"s than someone will try to copy that one too...
PantyRaider...We Didn't Fix Everything In One Season!!!/_
PR - What you simply fail to understand, realize, and come to grips with is that WRs are what makes an offense potent. When you don't have legit WRs, the opponent's D naturally game-plans around that aspect and adjusts accordingly.
What this means in short hand is that a D puts 8 in the box to take away the run and basically says "Go ahead Oakland, try to beat us with your outside WRs".
Using RBs and the TE is an important aspect to the passing game but it is more of a supplement not the driving force.
As far as who we should go after, my answer is the same as it has always been ... be active, vigilant, and aggressive when looking at the waiver wire. It isn't rocket science. Sign 1-2 veteran WRs who have proven to be productive and are in good health. Sign these veteran WRs to a reasonable contracts. Let's face it, a non-disruptive, veteran WR who has caught 30+ balls in recent years is a HUGE upgrade to our current corps.
Correction:
Still have the problem at LT though.
Should read:
Still have the problem at RT though.
H
PR said: "you [CJ] read my [WR] suggestions I covered that with one of the few true options the Raiders have considering the real life circumstances...."
Yeah. Tory Holt. Pats gave him an injury settlement and released him. He's not an option.
PR, you act like this problem just happened. But the Raiders have faced the same circumstances for at least three seasons... really longer.
I haven't been watching other teams, but you can be sure some teams are stacked at WR and will be releasing proven players to make room for up and coming young talent. Once upon a time, this was a problem the Raiders faced.
But Cable made it pretty clear on Monday that the Raiders would not seek to add depth to the position, regardless of Schilens status.
So this continues to be the Raiders stupidity. They are not victims of circumstance. They are ridiculously blind to their own needs.
"CJ"...
Every "O" is not the same and to make a blanket statement that without a wide open "WR" active "O" you can't succeed is pure nonsense...Look around the NFL and note how many teams have a good core of "WR"s...Damn few I would suspect but some can still perform adequately without that...
Our core of "WR"s may be young -n- as yet un-proven but that's far from saying their not adequate...They are not super by any stretch of the imagination but with a "QB" who can deliver the ball to a target on time they still need to be respected and will be...
Hell last season we had "DHB" drawing the double coverage as a rookie with a "GlueSniffer" at "QB"...Ya think for one damn moment "DB"s will ignore him with "JC" throwing that football...
Murphy played well as a rookie and was a consistent legitimate weapon in that "O" and had to be dealt with...Now do you think being targeted by the likes of "JC" will diminish the "DB"'s attention on him...
Jecoby is showing himself as a reliable target as a rookie so do you think "DB"s will be instructed to ignore him and crowd the box...
If Chaz comes back healthy and ready to play than we are in a much better position but until than we need to deal with the reality at hand and just play ball...
If and when the "DB"s play up we will play action deep and burn them big or scare the crap out of them if it's close and make them adjust their coverage...Than we will run-run-run and dump off to the "RB"s-n-"TE"s until they try to take it away by crowding the box...Than again we will attempt to burn them deep and make them adjust...
Inside the 20's is where that becomes more limited but using that 2-"TE" "O" would be more effective in close anyway...
With a little imagination and allot of preparation a good "OC" could make this work...Making proper adjustments and the play calling will be far more important than the name of the "WR"s in the game...Hell...The "Fish" did it with "Smurf"s that no one respected and Elway was effective early on with those stupid "Amegos" who were far less than adequate but Elway could scramble around until one found his way open...
And for the record no one is talking "SB" here...We are talking an "O" that is consistent and adequate with a "D" that keeps it close and keeps us in the game while maybe scoring a few points in the process...The great "O" is something for the future when we have all the necessary parts at "WR"-n-"OL"-n-"FB"...Those are still future considerations...
The #15 "O" -n- #5-#10 "D" would prolley be enough to get us the AFCW...
PantyRaider...If That "O" IS Better Than #15 We Are A Play Off Team!!!/_
"09" Top Rushing "O"s...
1. New York Jets 172.2
2. Tennessee Titans 162.0
3. Carolina Panthers 156.1
4. Miami Dolphins 139.4
5. Baltimore Ravens 137.5
Now here are the Top Passing "O"s...
1. Houston Texans 290.9
2. Indianapolis Colts 282.2
3. New England Patriots 277.2
4. New Orleans Saints 272.2
5. San Diego Chargers 271.1
Hell take your pick...I would be damn happy to be any one of them this yr in the AFCW....
Notice the Top Passing "O" missed the "PO"s -n- the #2-#4 Top Rushing "O"s missed the "PO"s as well...
Baltimore-n-"AZ" were the #13-n-#14 "O"s last season...The Jets were #20 -n- Cinn was #24 but all made the "PO"s...
The difference is most also had top "D"s except for "AZ" @ #20 -n- "NO" #25...Hell "SD"-n-"Indy" were #16-n-#18...
So if we can put together the #10 "D" and a top 10 rushing team what makes you think we can't compete in the AFCW...
What worked before can most certainly work again...
PantyRaider...Trends Are Just Trends NOT The Ultimate Limiter!!!/_
Just some delightful humor from another board/post..."J-Mac"s thread...
----------------------------------
The billboard demanded a GM, where’s the GM?
The status is guo you retard Big Al loked at that billbard farted and kept doing what he was doing.
-----------------------------------
I think that says it all and it's way too funny while now all those "Mutinous Bastards" who were demanding "Al's head on a platter are eagerly waiting to see what transpires Saturday Night...Well all except for one or two maybe...
PantyRaider...All Hail Our "MGP"!!!/_
"NYR"...
Nice try but I already mentioned that one before I saw this...
----------------------------------
He was placed on injured reserve on August 15, 2010 as a result of a knee injury that would require surgery. He was released by the team on August 17 with an injury settlement.
----------------------------------
So maybe he is available next season or late in 2010 if he has that surgery and gets back healthy in time before the season ends but the probability of something happening now is very slim indeed...
PantyRaider...Just Keep Lookin Baby!!!/_
On the heels of criticizing Al Davis for paying Nnamdi Asomugha the highest amount ever for CB and creating their impasse with CB Darrell Revis, the Jets just signed their C, Nick Mangold to a new contract paying him the highest amount ever paid to a center.
Hypocrites!
Expect the Mangold contract to grow legs on Raider blogs.
PR -
You posted top rushing offenses and top passing offenses, yet you don't even get what that shows.
Take another look. Which group predominantly went deep into the playoffs.
It's a passing league. You need a top QB, solid WRs, and a decent O-line to protect them. The Raiders fall behind in all categories.
NO "NYR" I didn't miss anything you did...
I said we are not talking "SB" here and to add to it we only hope to make a "PO" appearance simply because we play a weak schedule in the AFCW and it may be up for grabs...Had we been playing in a tougher division I doubt any of us would seriously be talking "PO"s at this point...
I also posted that any of those teams should have been able to take our division or been in contention...Or do you now doubt that as realistic...Even Carolina who were 8-8 against "NO"-n-Atlanta...Tenn who were also 8-8 and the "Fish" at 7-9 played in much tougher divisions than we do and had top 5 running games...
Now are you posting you would not have been happy with that for the Raiders last season...If so please say so and state what your expectations are now...Hell As far as I have seen from your posts you don't even expect the "PO"s now do you...
PantyRaider...Do You Even Expect To Compete!!!/_
Pr said: "NO "NYR" I didn't miss anything you did..."
So going into a season in which we have a weak schedule and could do some damage in our division, we shouldn't address critical needs?
How can that possibly make sense to you?
By all means, let's continue to hide behind the eight ball. Cause we don't want to win, we just want to keep the dream alive.
Genius!
"It is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma."
That one was good and applied to what is happening with "DHB"-n-"D-Mac" regarding injuries...Chaz too I suspect...Way too funny under that "Cone-0-Silence" that some are finding so difficult to live threw...
I don't know why it should be so difficult...Aside from the few seasons with that "Mole" it's always been there to seal off any and all who dare seek a peek...Hell...I'm so familiar with it that I scarcely notice anything except for all that habitual crying by the "Mediot"s and their fans...
Besides...It has always opened the door to all sorts of speculations that would just not exist was it not for that "Cone" being kept in place...But I guess some would rather be like other fans and be told everything so they don't have to exercise their minds trying to figure anything out...
PantyRaider...Deep Thinking Is Not For All To Enjoy!!!/_
A mind is a terrible thing to waste...Just ask...Jerk knows the truth!!!...
Early Odds don't seem near as low as last season...
80-1 for Super Bowl Champs. 40-1 for AFC champs. 8-1 AFC West Champs.
Oh! Dammit "NYR" now you can't really be that damn blind when you read something now can you...Now when the fuck did I even imply that crap you posted...
How the damn hell did your brain turn...
----------------------------------
With a little imagination and allot of preparation a good "OC" could make this work...Making proper adjustments and the play calling will be far more important than the name of the "WR"s in the game...
----------------------------------
And turn it into this total crap...
we shouldn't address critical needs?
How can that possibly make sense to you?
By all means, let's continue to hide behind the eight ball. Cause we don't want to win, we just want to keep the dream alive.
Genius!
----------------------------------
Yes I suppose so...It would take a freakin "Genius" to figure out where the hell your head is at...
PantyRaider...Too Damn Confusing-n-Illegitimate To Pursue!!!/_
Just read this online...
“San Diego gave Seattle permission to talk to holdout receiver Vincent Jackson. It is the first evidence that San Diego might be willing to trade Jackson.”
----------------------------------
OK for all those stats lovers here is one...
Looking at our schedule this yr based upon their records last season...
Ave per team 16 games is 8.4 "W"s...
Ave outside the AFCW is 8.5 "W"s
Ave inside the AFCW is 8.3 "W"s...
So the toughest part of our schedule is outside our own division and the other teams also have to play those games or worse...
Indy at 14 "W"s -n- "AZ" at 10 "W"s are both appearing to have weakened slightly...Saturday will give us an idea how we stack up against the rest of the NFCW...
"SD" at 13 "W"s who we play twice is also appearing to be weakening..."KC"-n-"MuleHead"s have very one dimensional "O"s...
Rush "D"s we face...
#1..."SD" Twice..
#5...Tenn...
#11.."SF"...
#13.."SL"..
#16.."Fish"...
#19.."KC" Twice...
#20..Pits...
#22.."AZ"...
#27.."Houston...
#28..Seattle...
#29..Indy...
#31..Jacksonville...
#32.."MuleHead"s Twice...
The ave is #19.125...
Now explain to me again why having a top 5 running game won't translate into "V"s in this new NFL...
PantyRaider...What Do We Offer "SD" For That "WR"!!!/_
Don't read too much into it
Seattle was given permission to talk to Vincent Jackson (re: his demands for a new contract). Apparently he is looking for Brandon Marshal type money ($50 million over 5 years; $30 million guaranteed). Its doubtful San Diego would trade Jackson for a 3rd round draft choice. According to what sources have told Kevin Acee of the San Diego Union-Tribune, the Vikes — and previously, the Seattle Seahawks — have decided to take a pass after finding out what type of deal Jackson wants from his new team.
----------------------------------
So now all you who be demanding that #1 "WR" are you willing to pay that price to get him...
PantyRaider...Put Up Or Shut Up Time!!!/_
Vincent Jackson 6'5" 230# "PB" "WR" -w- 4.48 speed -n- 39' "VJ"...
Would he make your #1 "WR" position...
PantyRaider...Come-On Pull That Trigger!!!/_
PR -
Aren't you the one on this board harping about how the Raiders can just use the TE and RB to compensate for their deficiencies at WR, and that they are using the cone-of-silence to secretly game-plan that into action?
Do I really need to find the posts?
It's not just one clueless post, it's your whole body of work on this board that's clueless.
WoW!...Now that really explains allot...
But you just can't fine the post to show it while your the one on this board being so gloomy it sounds like your ready to throw in the towel before the 1st flip of a coin in a game that counts...Preseason just too much for you or what...
Your wrong again...
I'm the one who is posting alternative actions that need to be considered to compensate for our obvious deficiencies at "WR" and showing statistical evidence that it's very possible to win without a good core of "WR"s if you have good "RB"s and "TE"s along with a creative game plan by the "OC" with good adjustments and tactics and simply adiquate "WR"s -n- good "QB" play which I believe we definitely have now...All of which is undoubtedly way outside your realm of understanding as you try to twist every word rather than discus anything logically...
Logically such as...
#1...Why can't a strong run game win in today's NFL when you look at our opponents record against the run...
#2...Why can't a "TE" be the #1 receiver when that's the way it has been with this team in the past...
#3...Why can't throwing to the "RB"s -n- "TE" compensate for deficiencies at "WR"...
#4...Why can't we depend upon our "D" to keep it close and perhaps score a few points occasionally...
#5...Why can't the tandem of "DHB"/Ford be used to drive the "DB"s deep and out of the box so as to help that run game...
#6...Why can't Murphy be considered an adequate "WR" when he played well as a rookie with a "GlueSniffer" at "QB"....
#7...Why can't a 2-"TE" scheme work well in today's NFL considering our opponents weakness against the run...
#8...Why can't the tandem of Bush/Bennett work very well in our running game...
#9...Why can't "D-Mac" perform well as a "Slash" type player in the mode of "RB"/"WR" and help compensate for our deficiencies at "WR"...
#10...Why can't Chaz eventually return to help our core of "WR"s become stronger...
And for extras...
#11...Why wouldn't you throw the money at Vincent Jackson -n- give "SD" what they want in order to solidify that core of "WR"s and make it a strength on this team this season...
PantyRaider...Now The Ball Is In Your Court But Can Ya Make A Play!!!/_
PR said: "But you just can't fine the post to show it...."
Once again, I am the one forced to find evidence to support my every post. You on the other hand, continue to throw BS against the wall without a shred of support.
Quote 1:
"We break camp and go home this week which translates to closed practices under that "Cone-0-Silence"...So here it comes about Chaz-n-"D-Mac"-n-"DHB" who have all been held out from view of late...
I'm thinking Hue will develop these 3 into his game plans secretly...."
Quote 2:
"Just Run-Run-Run-n-Dump Off To "RB"s-n-"TE"s Baby and pass off of that to the "WideOuts" and ya don't need that tremendous talent at the "WR"
____________
PR, Your statements have no credibility, therefore, you have no integrity.
PR said: "I'm the one who is posting alternative actions that need to be considered to compensate for our obvious deficiencies at "WR" and showing statistical evidence that it's very possible to win without a good core of "WR"s"
All your so-called statistical evidence showed was that teams with a strong passing game made it further in post-season than teams without, despite the presence of a strong rushing game.
Stats are dangerous when you don't know how to interpret them. In your case, it's like nuclear Holocaust.
Best Illustrated This Way For Your Consideration:
Let's just say we go out and somehow sign a magnificent "WR" as our new #1...OK...Now everyone just so happy...
Than to top that we also get Chaz beck early and in the game...OK...Now we be playing ball...
So now as happens in this game "Shit happens" and we lose our new toy to the "IR" for the season while Chaz also gets a little banged up...
So what do you do???...Oh! My!...Throw in the towel and say it's over...
NO STUPID!!!...
You look at where your strengths are and make adjustments accordingly...You rely upon your "RB"s-n-"TE"s to take up the slack...You trust in your "D" to keep it close and you go out and play ball...
Now why the damn hell wouldn't that be the same damn focus now in preparation for this season with a less than top rated core of "WR"s on the roster...
Damn...This must be worse than "Rocket Science" if it's this damn difficult to get across...
PantyRaider...Quantum Mechanics Anyone!!!/_
"NYR"...
Now that was very nice but you forgot what was posted just after...
-----------------------------------So much for my hopeful speculations regarding Hue's plans in secrecy...Now I start to worry that "D-Mac"-n-"DHB" may have something unreported also under that "Cone-0-Silence"...
-----------------------------------
So ya see a dime short and too damn late as I already slightly corrected that posted speculation...And I did say it was merely a "Speculation" now didn't I...
Now as for the other one correct and I added to it again and again while you have done absolutely nothing to debate it's possibilities what so ever and I doubt your at all capable to do so as you keep trying to throw your ridicules little "MudBall"s at something that was mere speculation just as so stated when posted...
PantyRaider...How Shallow Can It Get!!!/_
And by the way don't throw words around when you don't understand their meaning...
Now how the damn hell in your feeble little mind does credibility relate to integrity as you attempted to apply it to me...
Ant that "Statistical Evidence" was relating to our 2010 opponent's record against the run fool...
PantyRaider...Your Just Losing It With Your Stupid "MudSlinging" Crap!!!/_
Mark My Words:
We will find a way to compensate for our perceived weaknesses at "WR" and I will identify it when it happens just to be sure your fully aware of what has happened...
End of story...I'm sick and tired of this ridicules childishness injected into discussing Raider Football...
I posted this before. But I'll re-post it for the weak-minded to digest.
Cable said: "Hopefully we don’t lose Chaz for any time here. But if it does happen I do think we’re developing that group."
Translation: the Raiders have no intention of signing another WR.
They are content to place their entire season in the hands of inexperienced WRs.
As J-Mac stated, this is a major role of the dice. I would add that it's unnecessary and stupid.
Sorry, but I can't defend the Raiders leaving Schilens in roster limbo for a second year in a row without the assistance of at least one experienced WR.
How many times did Pavlov's dog need electric shock to realize that the door to the SB includes a corp of decent WRs?
Hey Panty Waste, when are you going fishing again?
He's mopping the floor with ya and you way to dumb to see it. Why don't you shut up, you to busy talking, how can you learn or understand anything when you to busy talking? You have been proven, year after year, that you don't know a damn thing, except to make yourself look like a complete fool.
Just shut the hell up, your posts are like reading the National Enquirer, after the 1st one, you never want to read them again. Nobody reads your garbage, even the rest of the "crew" has abandoned you, take the hint bubs.
JONES
It was the same thing last year when Chaz got hurt. Chris Chambers was released by the Dolts and Cable said the same thing. Something about how happy they were with the crop they had. The 10 year plan continues!
JONES
"PantyRaider said...
Mark My Words"
What a WASTE of time, do you really think anyone will? Nobody marks things that are worthless, sit down bubs.
JONES
Truthless Liar...He wouldn't comment on it if he didn't read it...
NOT a shred of truth in that liar...Just hypocrisy -n- delusional grandeur...
I have the truth. I am the TRUTH. You all have to respect me, who I am. You don't have the truth. Only I am the TRUTH so stop the lies and respect me.
You are all like WASTE and full of lies. Don't laugh at me. I am the TRUTH. Stop laughing at me.
JONES
The following is an excerpt from the book, "Jim Otto, The Pain of Glory".
**********************************
'Playing Buffalo during the 1972 preseason, I snapped the ball for a field goal, and the whole right side of the Raiders offensive line fell on my right leg.
I tore five ligaments on just that one play.
The leg was absolutely crushed, and so was I, emotionally. That injury looked devastating even to me. Someone who had as much pain tolerance as anyone who ever played football.
Fearing the worst, the Raiders sent me to Mt. Sinai Hospital in L.A. Dr. Robert Rosenfeld, our team physician, tested the knee in a three and a half hour fluoroscopic examination. it's a procedure where he went inside the knee to probe for damage, without operating.
But I knew surgery was the nesxt step. Dr. Rosenfeld knew it too. My leg was black from the groin down to the toes from excessive internal bleeding. Dr. Rosenfeld informed me I wouldn't play any more that year. And with the seriousness of this injury, he doubted if I would ever play again.
Not play that year ? Did he think he was talking to an accountant ? And if he really was recommending I retire, then he was out of his mind.
So, unbeknownst to Dr. Rosenfeld, I sought a second opinion...My own.
not long after he left my room, I consulted with myself, and immediately got dressed. Without telling anyone, I walked out of the hospital on my crutches and caught a cab to the airport. By now, I was putting weight on the damaged leg, and it felt fine. I felt encouraged.
Injured reserve my eye !!!
After, the plane landed in Oakland, I climbed in my Volkswagen. Using my right leg on the accelerator and my left leg on the clutch and brake--hey, what's five ligament tears in a cramped VW bug?--I headed for the Raiders training camp in Santa Rosa, a 75 minute drive.
The right knee held up well...I can play !!!
When I arrived at the El Rancho Tropicana Motel, our summertime practice site, afternoon practice was starting. The team was on the field. I told George Anderson, the Raiders trainer, to tape my knee because I was suiting up. He stared at me in disbelief.
"you're out of your mind", he said. "Madden's going to be madder than hell".
I persisted, and George taped me up. I walked out on the field and sure enough, coach Madden was madder than hell.
"Otto, what are you doing here?", he yelled at me while waving his arms wildly. "You left the hospital without the doctor's permission. You're not practicing. You're injured. Now get outta here, and take off that uniform."
Although I didn't object to John running me off. I was emotionally upset. If he too believed I was disabled for the year, and even beyond, then he was crazy too.
I waited after practice and begged John to let me practice the next day. I told him if I couldn't do the necessary work, he would know right away, and he could do whatever he wanted with me. But at least give me a chance.
Finally, John agreed. The following day, I went through the same drills as everyone else without missing a beat. I made my point, yet the coaches and players stared at me in utter amazement, wondering if I had been born with rubber parts.
I was muscle mass just like they were, but I also was the Raiders team captain. And it was my job to set an example for the younger players, who needed someone to teach them the Raider way.
In my mind, the Raider way meant if you could walk, you could play.
I started the season opener against Pittsburgh. Although my leg remained as black as coal that first month. George taped it up, and I made it through the entire season. I played well enough to be selected to the Pro Bowl, my 12th postseason all star game.
After that, I had surgery on that so-called career-ending injury, and I played another two seasons for the Raiders.'
***********************************
OK, I wish someone would post this above the lockers of Mcfragile, DHB, and Schillins.
The following is an excerpt from the book, "Jim Otto, The Pain of Glory".
**********************************
'Playing Buffalo during the 1972 preseason, I snapped the ball for a field goal, and the whole right side of the Raiders offensive line fell on my right leg.
I tore five ligaments on just that one play.
The leg was absolutely crushed, and so was I, emotionally. That injury looked devastating even to me. Someone who had as much pain tolerance as anyone who ever played football.
Fearing the worst, the Raiders sent me to Mt. Sinai Hospital in L.A. Dr. Robert Rosenfeld, our team physician, tested the knee in a three and a half hour fluoroscopic examination. it's a procedure where he went inside the knee to probe for damage, without operating.
But I knew surgery was the nesxt step. Dr. Rosenfeld knew it too. My leg was black from the groin down to the toes from excessive internal bleeding. Dr. Rosenfeld informed me I wouldn't play any more that year. And with the seriousness of this injury, he doubted if I would ever play again.
Not play that year ? Did he think he was talking to an accountant ? And if he really was recommending I retire, then he was out of his mind.
So, unbeknownst to Dr. Rosenfeld, I sought a second opinion...My own.
not long after he left my room, I consulted with myself, and immediately got dressed. Without telling anyone, I walked out of the hospital on my crutches and caught a cab to the airport. By now, I was putting weight on the damaged leg, and it felt fine. I felt encouraged.
Injured reserve my eye !!!
After, the plane landed in Oakland, I climbed in my Volkswagen. Using my right leg on the accelerator and my left leg on the clutch and brake--hey, what's five ligament tears in a cramped VW bug?--I headed for the Raiders training camp in Santa Rosa, a 75 minute drive.
The right knee held up well...I can play !!!
When I arrived at the El Rancho Tropicana Motel, our summertime practice site, afternoon practice was starting. The team was on the field. I told George Anderson, the Raiders trainer, to tape my knee because I was suiting up. He stared at me in disbelief.
"you're out of your mind", he said. "Madden's going to be madder than hell".
I persisted, and George taped me up. I walked out on the field and sure enough, coach Madden was madder than hell.
"Otto, what are you doing here?", he yelled at me while waving his arms wildly. "You left the hospital without the doctor's permission. You're not practicing. You're injured. Now get outta here, and take off that uniform."
Although I didn't object to John running me off. I was emotionally upset. If he too believed I was disabled for the year, and even beyond, then he was crazy too.
I waited after practice and begged John to let me practice the next day. I told him if I couldn't do the necessary work, he would know right away, and he could do whatever he wanted with me. But at least give me a chance.
Finally, John agreed. The following day, I went through the same drills as everyone else without missing a beat. I made my point, yet the coaches and players stared at me in utter amazement, wondering if I had been born with rubber parts.
I was muscle mass just like they were, but I also was the Raiders team captain. And it was my job to set an example for the younger players, who needed someone to teach them the Raider way.
In my mind, the Raider way meant if you could walk, you could play.
I started the season opener against Pittsburgh. Although my leg remained as black as coal that first month. George taped it up, and I made it through the entire season. I played well enough to be selected to the Pro Bowl, my 12th postseason all star game.
After that, I had surgery on that so-called career-ending injury, and I played another two seasons for the Raiders.'
***********************************
OK, I wish someone would post this above the lockers of Mcfragile, DHB, and Schillins.
The following is an excerpt from the book, "Jim Otto, The Pain of Glory".
**********************************
'Playing Buffalo during the 1972 preseason, I snapped the ball for a field goal, and the whole right side of the Raiders offensive line fell on my right leg.
I tore five ligaments on just that one play.
The leg was absolutely crushed, and so was I, emotionally. That injury looked devastating even to me. Someone who had as much pain tolerance as anyone who ever played football.
Fearing the worst, the Raiders sent me to Mt. Sinai Hospital in L.A. Dr. Robert Rosenfeld, our team physician, tested the knee in a three and a half hour fluoroscopic examination. it's a procedure where he went inside the knee to probe for damage, without operating.
But I knew surgery was the nesxt step. Dr. Rosenfeld knew it too. My leg was black from the groin down to the toes from excessive internal bleeding. Dr. Rosenfeld informed me I wouldn't play any more that year. And with the seriousness of this injury, he doubted if I would ever play again.
Not play that year ? Did he think he was talking to an accountant ? And if he really was recommending I retire, then he was out of his mind.
So, unbeknownst to Dr. Rosenfeld, I sought a second opinion...My own.
not long after he left my room, I consulted with myself, and immediately got dressed. Without telling anyone, I walked out of the hospital on my crutches and caught a cab to the airport. By now, I was putting weight on the damaged leg, and it felt fine. I felt encouraged.
Injured reserve my eye !!!
After, the plane landed in Oakland, I climbed in my Volkswagen. Using my right leg on the accelerator and my left leg on the clutch and brake--hey, what's five ligament tears in a cramped VW bug?--I headed for the Raiders training camp in Santa Rosa, a 75 minute drive.
The right knee held up well...I can play !!!
When I arrived at the El Rancho Tropicana Motel, our summertime practice site, afternoon practice was starting. The team was on the field. I told George Anderson, the Raiders trainer, to tape my knee because I was suiting up. He stared at me in disbelief.
"you're out of your mind", he said. "Madden's going to be madder than hell".
I persisted, and George taped me up. I walked out on the field and sure enough, coach Madden was madder than hell.
"Otto, what are you doing here?", he yelled at me while waving his arms wildly. "You left the hospital without the doctor's permission. You're not practicing. You're injured. Now get outta here, and take off that uniform."
Although I didn't object to John running me off. I was emotionally upset. If he too believed I was disabled for the year, and even beyond, then he was crazy too.
I waited after practice and begged John to let me practice the next day. I told him if I couldn't do the necessary work, he would know right away, and he could do whatever he wanted with me. But at least give me a chance.
Finally, John agreed. The following day, I went through the same drills as everyone else without missing a beat. I made my point, yet the coaches and players stared at me in utter amazement, wondering if I had been born with rubber parts.
I was muscle mass just like they were, but I also was the Raiders team captain. And it was my job to set an example for the younger players, who needed someone to teach them the Raider way.
In my mind, the Raider way meant if you could walk, you could play.
I started the season opener against Pittsburgh. Although my leg remained as black as coal that first month. George taped it up, and I made it through the entire season. I played well enough to be selected to the Pro Bowl, my 12th postseason all star game.
After that, I had surgery on that so-called career-ending injury, and I played another two seasons for the Raiders.'
***********************************
OK, I wish someone would post this above the lockers of Mcfragile, DHB, and Schillins.
I'm Mr wiki, if I don't know something I wiki it and I write useless stats all the time to make it appear like I know something. I lie about everything and then point fingers at everyone else for being a liar. Don't do as I do, just do as I tell you.....because I can.....oh yeah, this is my best spelling in a post EVER
Signed pantyWASTE of time.
PANTYBOY
00
Excellent exert from the real 00. Players are worth too much now to endanger their longevity like that, even though 00 played a long career. Today they want the dough, everything else takes a backseat to that.
JONES
PR -
I suggest you read these 1st few 3 paragraphs of Gregg Easterbrook's column from Tuesday:
"The National Football League is all about running the ball, right? That's what you hear. Yet for two consecutive seasons, the last-ranked rushing team made the Super Bowl -- Arizona in 2008 and Indianapolis in 2009 reached the ultimate game despite having the league's worst rushing offense those seasons. True, both lost, but 30 of the 32 NFL franchises gladly would have traded places with the team that lost the Super Bowl. And last season, the AFC's two best teams, winning the first-round byes -- San Diego and Indianapolis -- were 31st and 32nd overall, respectively, in rushing.
Thus you don't have to run the ball well to win at football. Increasingly, you can't run the ball even if you try -- because linemen are getting so big, there's steadily less room for running.
n 2008, only seven NFL teams rushed more often than they passed. In 2009, the number fell to just four -- Carolina, Cincinnati, Jersey/B and Tennessee. Maybe this is because, as the Football Outsiders website long has contended, establishing the pass has more tactical value (because of more yards gained per attempt) than establishing the run. Maybe it's because rules changes (no contact with the receiver after 5 yards, no head slaps by pass-rushers) encourage the forward pass. Or maybe it's because linemen are now so big."
The NFL is a QB/pass driven league. Our current corps of WRs is arguably the worst, least experience, and least productive group EVER assembled.
You write,
"NO STUPID!!!...
You look at where your strengths are and make adjustments accordingly..."
The adjustment is self-evident ... acquire depth and experienced WRs. If we were to play tomorrow, our only known commodity is 2nd year WR Louis Murphy. That statement in itself is a 5 bell alarm.
So "CJ" we play tomorrow so what are you going to do as "OC"...You are powerless to go out and bring in new "WR"s...Just simply state what actions you take as the "OC" because that's the point of view I'm approaching this whole damn thing from...
As in what can be done to make this current roster a chain moving productive "O" that scores points...
I'm just not into the damn tears...I'm into the damn realities of the hand that is dealt that "OC" and until something new presents itself this is what it is...
And by the way do you go after that "SD" WR" or not..If so with what as the projected payment...
PantyRaider...Just Get Real With What's Real!!!/_
Raider00...
Your post about Jim was timely...We now will be starting a new "C"...
Go Veldheer!!!...
If we stand pat, meaning we don't aggressively try to add 1-2 experienced WRs, than my hand is forced.
I would use some twin, split RB formations with both Bush & McFadden to incorporate more RBs into the passing game.
I would use more double TE sets of Miller and Myers.
I would use McFadden as a slot WR on 3rd and long situations.
I would utilize more WC offense principles to complete more 1st down passes to make the down and distances more manageable.
I would pray that one of these guys steps up and produces; DHB, JLH, Miller, Watkins.
I would be counting on the D to keep the game close and for the ST unit to win us the field position battle.
Lastly, which is a sure sign of dealing from weakness instead of strength, I would be resorting to using more trick plays to find a way to create some big offensive plays.
Ah, F, it. Go deep DHB.
Now as far as this game being a barometer as to what we will be in the regular season that just may not be the case according to Cable...
-----------------------------------
– Cable hinted the Raiders would game plan more to put players in situations to make roster decisions easier, rather than devise a plan to beat the 49ers. The third regular season game typically is the one that’s a dress rehearsal for the opener. The fact that the two teams play in the regular season is also a factor.
“Because we’re playing them later we probably won’t show everything we normally would,” Cable said.
---------------------------------
So he is taking care of business in "Secrecy" and it's all on a need to know basis...Kinda as I expected/posted RIGHT!!!...
PantyRaider...Oh! I Just Love It When Things Like That Come Together!!!/_
"CJ"...
Now that was a funny approach to getting teeth pulled...Good job by the way and I fully agree...
PantyRaider...Let's Hope It Works!!!/_
This just in...
-----------------------------------
NFL owners are eager to increase the regular season from 16 to 18 games. During a five-hour meeting Wednesday, the push to add two more games to the regular season picked up steam -- at least among those who sign the checks. The players aren't so sure. But talks on the expanded season dominated most of the meeting.
-----------------------------------
So what does that do to the pay scale on contracts already signed and for those that will be made later...Any Answers...Ideas...
Now we just need that rookie salary cap -n- were heading in the right direction...
Now for a little speculation:
the owners want to push for the Rookie Salary Cap but the players don't want it so they throw up another target of opposition to get the players arguing about that one and than a trade-off is made...We stop pushing for the extended season and you give us that cap...
PantyRaider...Anybodies Guess!!!/_
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-nflmeetings
Truly love to see this one..."SD" is heading down the wrong road and in deep shit at "LT"-n-"#1 "WR"....Both out for the 1st 3 weeks of this regular season...
Should we pursue either of these "PB" players...How about both...Now that would be a god-sent to our "O"...
PantyRaider...What Dreams Are Made Of!!!/_
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AlELfOXDZ9YpfiijzXq3pRwdsLYF?slug=ap-chargers-jackson
This just in:
Vlad the Impaler will start at center Saturday.
This is both good and bad. Good, we will see how he can perform with a few consecutive practices.
Bad, the middle of the Whiner front seven is pretty good (as much as I hate to sat it).
A true test for the rookie.
For the DVR folks, the NFL network will be rerunning the game at 2300 on Sunday.
H
The
PR posted the following quote and comment:
Cable: “Because we’re playing them later we probably won’t show everything we normally would,” Cable said.
---------------------------------
PR: "So he is taking care of business in "Secrecy" and it's all on a need to know basis...Kinda as I expected/posted RIGHT!!!..."
That might make some sense on defense. But, IMO, a team with so many weaknesses on offense in terms of their starters, injuries, epic lack of depth, and historically poor game-planning and execution doesn't have the luxury of being coy with their presentation.
We’re not talking about the Colts here. The Raiders don’t have some well-oiled offense that can shift from preseason mode to in-season mode.
You mean the Raiders playbook is so simplistic they can’t open up a few plays and not be concerned those plays might get duplicated in Week 6? Let’s not pretend like the Raiders tendencies won’t be on public display by then.
There are guys the Raiders will count on to produce on offense that have barely participated in training camp. These guys needs reps.
Don’t be surprised if this offense falls flat on its face against a stout Titans defense in the season opener. Guys like DHB and McFadden will have barely played a snap through preseason, and they will not be ready to carry this offense... as they are being depended on to do.
Ya!...Don't ya just hate it when your proved to be wrong -n- ya have to eat that other guys "Crow"...But I acknowledge your on the record projecting failure as usual...What else was to be expected...
nyraider:
"How many times did Pavlov's dog need electric shock to realize that the door to the SB includes a corp of decent WRs?" 12:44 PM
Pavlov's dog wasn't given electric shock. Pavlov's theory was based on conditioned response.
Bell rang, no response.
Bell rang, dog given treat. Repeat.
Bell rang, dog given treat. Dog's salivation response noted.
Bell rang, dog given treat. Response again noted.
After prolonged conditioning, the dog began salivating the moment the bell rang.
Semantics aside, I agree with you.
Our multi-seasonal need for added ability and depth for our meagerly-performing WR corps should have been a wake-up call requiring some sort of defibrillator to restart our [lack of] WRs' hearts...!
Perhaps like, "F'ck me once, shame on you. F'ck me twice, shame on me!" (Read as,"will we ever learn from our mistakes???")
~'Cat
Cat - of course you are right. I was just trying to make a point. Good to know somebody gets it.
PR said: "!...Don't ya just hate it when your proved to be wrong -n- ya have to eat that other guys "Crow"..."
Proven wrong about what?
As far as predicting failure for the offense, I'll go one step further. I'll predict the offense regresses against the 49ers.
I HOPE I am proven wrong on that one, but I don't feel good about my chances.
So "Cat"...
Would you be willing to deal with "SD" to get that "WR" and pay his price too...
We have dealt with several needs the past 2 seasons but naturally they have not all been satisfactorily settled as of yet...But who was out there that you were willing to go after this season...
"TO"...
Brandon Martial...
Would you have paid the price to "AZ"...
PantyRaider...Some Things May be Left For Next Season To Address!!!/_
Hell we have addressed the "OL" but may still need help at "C"-n-"LT"-n-"RT"...That will be known early in the season and known for sure by season's end...
We may still need some help at "S"-n-"CB" and "DT" too...That will make itself very clear as things progress...
And who really knows how we're set at the other specialty positions until after the season starts...
Will we need additional help at "RB"-n-"QB"..."FB" is already an issue...
So really "WR" is only one of the final pieces of the puzzle that needs to be finally addressed before we can talk about being an elite team...
PantyRaider...Hell Now We're Just Trying To Be A Contender Again!!!/_
Here is a comment from another source...Would any of you be willing to bite on this move...
----------------------------------
PFT is reporting...
…That Maurkice Pouncey has officially won the starting center job in Pittsburgh. Would love to see Howard packaged with a pick and shipped to Pittsburgh for Justin Hartwig. We get an experienced, proven center and I always thought Howard’s speed would make him a great 3-4 ’backer.
PantyRaider...Bodies Are Out There But Are You Willing To Make The Deals!!!/_
"NYR"...
I'll just take that bet and raise you this...
"Vlad the Impaler" will play well at "C" and the run will prosper as well as dump-offs to the "RB"s -n- "TE"s....
And to top it all off "DHB" will have a deep grab...
PantyRaider...On The Record!!!/_
This comment has been removed by the author.
PR:
"...But who was out there that you were willing to go after this season..."
Anquan Boldin, Cardinals. Possession WR.
As for Vincent Jackson? Yeah, I'd theoretically "pull that trigger". But San Diego wouldn't. At least, not without an exorbitant price, due to our divisional rivalry. So, ultimately, would he be worth multiple draft picks? What would SD have demanded of us?
The nagging question to me is, did DHB truly improve, or did we just get the company line? I didn't feel the puff of smoke, but the press release was rather hyperbolic. No warm 'n fuzzies there...
Y'know... I really don't get this John Herrera dude. I've read he's a cool-cat in-person, but... je ne sais pas.
~'Cat
There appears to be some angst across the internet about Vlad the Impaler’s height and Jason Campbell being able to complete passes over the middle.
Drew Brees is listed 6-0, two inches shorter than his shortest offensive lineman. He had a pretty good year throwing the ball last year.
If the passing lanes are there it shouldn’t be a problem for a 6-5 quarterback. Gradkowski, at 6-1, might need to move around a little more.
H
T.O. was looking for work. Some think he's too high maintenance, but there's no question he would have been the undisputed #1 WR in Oakland... something he would have embraced as a competitor.
Now he's hanging with Ocho Cinco and he appears to be a good citizen.
Let's not pretend the Raiders haven't had any options at WR the last two plus years, while Nick Miller and Chaz Schilens have been no more than ghosts on the roster and while DHB juggled 9 receptions all last year.
How many years has it been since a Raiders WR topped 34 rec in a single season? And don't tell me it's all because of JaMarcus Russell.
This is why simply ringing a bell is insufficient. Somebody needs electric shock therapy... IMNSHO.
"Cat"-n-"NYR"...
Last few months every time I posted about going for "TO" or Plexico I was told about the company line regarding in house attitude and how that would disrupt it...Same story last season when I posted about Michael "DogMan" Vick who we most certainly could have used at the time...Than when I talked about players like Brandon Martial -n- Boldin I was told the price was too high and we shouldn't sacrifice more draft picks -n- our cap for such high priced vets...
So I guess I was trying to "Enable" the Raiders to go after what we are all perceiving now to be huge needs while "Some" were fighting against that and "Disabling" the Raiders in their abilities to fill needs that really needed to be addressed sooner rather than later...
So now I'm not one to cry a thousand tears...Just the type to go out and deal the hand that has been dealt and find a way to win as best we can with what we have available...
Today I posted about that "SD" "WR" and Pitts "C" and "SD" "LT"...While it's prolley true that "SD" wont want to deal with us there are creative ways to get a deal done with a 3rd party involved like in the past...If we have what Seattle wants and we work that deal threw them for instance or some other team of interest...
PantyRaider...Never Just Throw In The Towel!!!/_
"H"...
Seems to me the opposite may be closer to the reality...Behind that tall "C" it may be more difficult for the defenders to see and knock down his passes and more difficult to see the "RB"s/hand-offs/fakes/movement of the "QB"...
PantyRaider...Could be Used To An Advantage!!!/_
The problem with TO's citizenship is it started out good with San Fran, Philly, Dallas and Buffalo.
It didn't end up too well though.
H
The sad reality of our current WR corps situation is that you could sign just about ANY veteran WR on the waiver wire and ...
(1) This WR will have more experience than any of our current WRs
(2) This WR will have produced more than any of our current WRs
(3) This WR would likely be our #2 or #3 or worst WR on our depth chart.
All I'm suggesting as an armchair fan is that it would be completely negligent of the Raiders organization to not make every conceivable effort to sign at least 1 veteran WR before Sept. 12.
And PR ... don't ask me for names. All any of us to include the organization itself will have to do is keep 1 eye fixated on the waiver wire.
I'm 100% confident that a WR will become available that would upgrade our current group.
1 further point of clarification;
The "negligent" reference was if we stand pat with our current group.
The perfect cover for negligence is "we can't fix it all in one year." Which neglects the fact that we've been broken for seven years. The predicament at WR is not merely a year old. It's many years old.
Name the last top-level wide receiver we have fielded (and I'm not talking about potential, and I'm not talking about what they did after they left Oakland (Moss), I'm talking about demonstrated results). Name him.
Believe it or not ...
But the last best WR we've probably had the past 7 years is Ronald Curry who was really a #3 WR.
What is going on in Alameda ...
The greatness of Jamarcus Russell PC
The greatness of DHB press release
Now this from SF Chronicle ...
The Raiders are wearing new shirts after practice this week. They say "We are going to win the AFC West and then go after the Super Bowl."
Now, I love optimism but they could have just put the period after AFC West there.
That's a bold enough statement. But if you're going to dream, I guess you don't have Jessica Alba tell Brooklyn Decker to leave the room.
Yup, go after the Super Bowl.
More Tom Cable from last night:
Because you will play Niners in regular season do you game plan differently?
"We're really more focused on just taking this team the next step. We'll game plan some things certainly. The fact right now is we have some tough decisions coming. We need to put our team and those individuals in a situation to show whether or not they can make the team. That's probably the primarily focus more than win the game kind of thing. Because we're playing them later we probably won't show everything we normally would."
Hey I'm all in favor of shooting for the stars, reaching for the brass ring, having lofty goals, etc. but this is ridiculous.
IMO, as an organization, you owe to the fans to prove 1st that you can win more than 6 games before you start printing out silly T-Shirts and peddling hollow slogans.
correction ...
it should have read 5 games vice 6.
"RT"-n-"CJ"...
Zack "Big Sure Hands" Miller in the image of Christensen as our #1 receiver at "TE" who led those teams in receptions...
Interesting that you would limit any attempt that was made during that past 7 seasons by not allowing the names of Moss or "DHB" on that list...Just like Porter who we had high hopes for but diminished returns...Same can be said for Walker who was another failed attempt...These are definite attempts to fill the need whether they worked out or not so the hell with your damn charge of "Neglect"...Efforts were made and some failed while some have yet to produce but that does not support your damn "HateTrip" charges...
Hell...You could say the same for the "DT"s...Sapp was a failure too and were waiting to see the full pay-off of Seymour...Why wasn't that in your charge of "Neglect"...
How about "Q"...Cole Pepper didn't make it and neither has anyone else so we're in wait-n-see mode as to whether that is solved now or not...Was that your "Neglect" too...
Go down the damn list from "OL" and on...We sucked as a team and it was shown by the players we fielded and the coaches who collapsed on the job...That wasn't orchestrated by failed front office attempts to bring in suitable players...It was the direct result of piss poor coaches that that front office gave the job to who failed to bring out even the slightest amount of success to those teams and the players themselves who were more eager to be cancer than a productive part of those teams...
PantyRaider...Charges Dismissed Insufficient Evidence!!!/_
Exerts From The Mind-n-Heart Of Hue...
Q: How will offense look different this year under you?
Jackson: I hope it’s already looking different. The most important thing is we’re striving for balance. We want to be a team that we can run the football when we need to run it and we can throw it when we need to throw it. We’re a multiple formation team. We have some no huddle. We do a little bit of everything. We do whatever it takes to win football games. That’s the most important thing that I’ve stressed from our coaches to our players that whatever it takes to win that’s what we’re going to do.
This environment is going to be the Raiders environment and whatever we do obviously we have a wealth of good players here: Darren McFadden, Michael Bush, Louis Murphy, Darrius Heyward-Bey, Zach Miller. We have some prime time football players and we’re tailoring our style of offense around those players to give them the best opportunity to have success.
What you do is you just kind of channel everything to the guy that’s playing. You want to play to his skill level and give him opportunity to have success. Our offense is driven by the quarterback, there’s no question. Obviously there’s 10 other guys who have to play at a high level too. But our quarterback is a guy who needs to play well. It’s proven, when a quarterback plays well you have a chance to have a pretty good offense. Obviously Jason’s strengths might be a little bit different than Bruce’s strengths and a little bit different than Kyle Boller’s so that’s my job as a coordinator to make sure I put those guys in the best position to have success.
Honestly, we’re trying to build a bully here. We want to go back and take our football team and understand what the Raiders’ tradition is. And I think every player that wears that helmet understands what we’re trying to build here each and every day, and it’s about competing. It’s about going out there every day and being the best at what you do, and I think our guys are taking that challenge.
Tom’s one of those old throwback coaches. He likes to get down in the dirt and get after it, and so do I. We kind of do it with a little flair. There’s a flair to what we do.....This is a different time in Raider football, and I’m excited about it, and we all are.
I think it’s so important that we do everything we can as coaches and players to put us back to where we actually belong, among the elite teams in this league.
Any time we take the field and we’re wearing that uniform, that’s what our intention is, to go win a football game.
There is an expectation here. The Raiders are supposed to win. And that is our expectation and that’s what we are going to do.
PantyRaider...I Luv This Guy Already -n- He Luvs Mr Davis!!!/_
“The perfect cover for negligence is "we can't fix it all in one year." Which neglects the fact that we've been broken for seven years.”
I beg to differ slightly. There were actually several attempts to “fix it all in one year.” That gave us, Javon Walker, Warren Sapp, DeAngelo Hall, Randy Moss, Gerard Warren, Lamont Jordan, Danny Clark, Derrick Burgess, and at few others I can’t recall at the moment.
Since Tom Cable took over after week 4 2008, here are some players that were listed as starters, according to pro-football-reference.com, who are no longer on the team:
Jamarcus Russell
Justin Fargus (I actually liked the guy)
Ronald Curry
Ashley Lelie
Kwame Harris
Jake Grove
Cornell Green
Derrick Burgess
Gerard Warren
Kalimba Edwards
Kirk Morrison
Gibril Wilson
DeAngelo Hall
Hiram Eugene and Ricky Brown are still on the team, but are no longer starters. Brown is a good contributor on special teams. That’s just starters. There are probably a bunch of backups gone too. That’s a pretty hefty turnover in two seasons, 15 of 22 starters replaced.
It’s part of the reason I point to that time as the starting point for rebuilding which has just completed its second offseason.
H
Sorry guys. Nice try. PR thinks a TE or RB out of the backfield is equivalent to (i.e., replacement for) a WR. He just doesn’t realize that these players might get double-teamed and the mismatches that could take place if we actually had WRs will no longer be possible.
Meanwhile, the ghost of DHB will streak down field drawing a crowd of defensive players with him, then throw a killer block and free McFadden for a TD.
These are the plans currently being hatched under the cone-of-silence.
The only thing we know for sure is that the Raiders need a new fashion consultant.
Now Now "H" we just can't have those inaccuracies on this board...Everything has taken place this season sense Jan-1 and there was never any plan before that...
Tell ya what...I will just take the time to post the roster from "08" and lets compare it to "09" and now to see how this roster has really evolved...But no matter...They wouldn't believe it staring them in the face...
PantyRaider...Nothing Was Good "08" Or "09" Is The Official Word On This Board!!!/_
Also, Cable's sentiment going into this game against the Whiners, is nearly identical to what Singletary said about the game and game planning for this one.
Panty,
I see Zach Miller more in the mold of Dave "The Ghost" Casper after he has several times knocked over and ran through DB's for extra yards. On one play he dragged three DB's with him for an extra four or five yards.
Take,
No question. The last top level wide receiver we fielded was, hands down, Tim Brown. Even though Rice gained more yards that year, Tim was home grown. But, we are comparing folks to HOF material.
NYRaider,
"Sorry guys. Nice try. PR thinks a TE or RB out of the backfield is equivalent to (i.e., replacement for) a WR."
I don't know, Christensen was our leading receiver on the SB-15 team. When Baltimore won it I think their top receiver was a guy named Shannon Sharpe. I seem to remember him taking a short pass and turnning it into a long TD against us. But, hey, at my age these things can be a little cloudy.
Getting backs involved in the passing game will help. The longest TD pass Plunkett threw in the Super Bowl was to Kenny King, if memory serves.
I believe there was a 3rd and 17 play last Saturday that was turned into a 24 yard completion to Michael Bush.
Backs and tight ends might not replace a HOF receiver, but it sure as hell will take some of the pressure off the receivers and the quarterback. Especially if you have guys willing to downfield block like Murphy did last season and Gallery did last Saturday.
H
One more thing, a guy named Dwight Clark gets lost in the shuffle, but I'd bet dollars to a doughnut he made Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison a lot more effective, and vice versa.
H
Hue Jackson quote: “We want to go back and take our football team and understand what the Raiders’ tradition is.”
So I guess he received the “Raiders tradition” speech too.
Jackson referring to Davis: “Just watching how he ran the draft.”
I guess this leaves little question about the draft, good or bad.
Interesting observations from J-Mac:
“Either the “competition” suggested by the coaches was a sham, or this group was extraordinary at determining its best players....”
“...The depth chart looks the same now as it did in OTAs and minicamps, with injuries being the only wild card.”
“The Raiders are holding out hope [Schilens will] be ready for Week 1, but that’s not the way to bet.”
“Louis Murphy is far and away the Raiders’ best and most dangerous receiver _ and he still drops too many passes for a real level of comfort.”
“Hope Zach Miller is in the best shape of his life. He’ll take more blows than Manny Pacquiao’s next opponent. It took Campbell about five seconds to discover Miller is his best option.”
H said: "I don't know, Christensen was our leading receiver on the SB-15 team."
What? We didn't we have any WR threats then either?
The pressure facing Miller is that the Raiders have very few options to throw the ball.
H, I'm not comparing subsequent guys to HOF material. I asked who was our last top-level wide receiver. The fact that our last ones were HOF doesn't change the question. There are plenty of great receivers who aren't HOFers.
Look at it this way, name our best two WRs since Brown and Rice (based on performance in Oakland, not in New England). Who are they?
NYRaider,
Yep, we had a guy named Cliff Branch who was nearing the end of his career. He caught 39 passes which led all WR's. Christensen caught 92 and a guy named Marcus Allen caught 68.
More recently, among Super Bowl winners, Shannon Sharpe led the Ravens with a massive 67 receptions, Quardry Ismail was next with a mind boggling 49. Two of their top five receivers were backs.
In 2001 Charlie Garner was our third leading receiver with 72 and in 2002, when we went to the Super Bowl, Garner was second on the team with 92.
They complement each other is my point. Our best offensive teams have always had backs and/or tight ends who could catch the ball and do something with it too.
And, whether we bring in a vet wide receiver or not, I'm very interested in seeing how having a quarterback who knows how to utilize backs and tight ends will affect our wide receivers production.
Personally I would like to bring one in. If nothing else, as an insurance policy. But, I'm not going to hold my breath.
Take,
I agree with you on WHO was the last top flight receiver. But, that, as I've been accused of, is dwelling in the past. It doesn't mean squat for now.
And, just so I can be redundantly redundant, whether we bring in a vet wide receiver or not, I'm very interested in seeing how having a quarterback who knows how to utilize backs and tight ends will affect our wide receivers production.
H
How is the fact that we once again find ourselves very thin at wide receiver "living in the past?"
Whenever I point out a current deficiency, I'm told that not everything can be fixed overnight. All I am saying is that this isn't overnight problem. It's a trend of negligence and poor talent evaluation that is impacting us TODAY, not in the past.
Take,
You asked a question, I answered it. Whenever I answer a question by bringing up something from the past, or making a comparison to the past, I'm told to stop living in the past.
Simple as that.
I agree on who. But I would still like to see what this group can do with a complementary attack from the backs and TE's. Especially Murphy, and I liked what I saw from Jacoby Ford last Saturday even if it was against the subs.
I think Murphy has Pro-Bowl potential and could catch 60+ passes this year.
I would like to see a vet brought in. Good insurance, if it's the right one. No head cases.
But, if we don't I'm ready to move on and see what we've got and how they work together.
I wouldn't consider Ismail a top flight receiver, but Baltimore seemd to get the job done with him and Sharpe. They had other parts of the team that took some of the heat off them and the quarterback.
I see lots of improvements. I'm not 100% satisfied, but I'm ready to get the season started and see what we've got for real instead of dwelling on a single position as the ruination of the season before it even starts.
And, just as a comment, I hope they don't go to an 18 game season. This game is tough enough on someones body without two additional season games. At some point the additional money isn't worth it. Not to mention the additional cost to the fan for season tickets.
They have a very good workable system now. Don't get like hockey and basketball that start in October and end in June and July.
H
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/rai/2007_roster.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/rai/2008_roster.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/rai/2009_roster.htm
It figures...If at all possible bring our the worse you can post Right "NYR"...There will always be something that needs fixing or a deficiency perceived by someone not even on the field but only you are apt at searching our every little dig that can be thrown up against my team...And by the way...That "Crap" you posted was "Mediot" remarks...Opinions-n-speculations and NOT factual evidence of anything...
Same goes for "RT"s attempts to find something derogatory to keep beating that perpetual drum of "Doom-n-Gloom"...Withhold/restrict evidence and twist something into a dig on Mr Davis accusing him of "Neglect" when you know damn well several efforts were made to upgrade that position and bundles of money were wasted trying to find a quick fix...
Totally pathetic...The both of you...
"H"...
It doesn't matter how many times they are shown the true facts regarding anything...It's an agenda to defame Mr Davis as "MGP" and that's all it is...Their personal "HateTrip"s...
Hell...Antonio Gates prolley led the "Dolts" at some point...So why did the "Midgets" spend such a high draft pick on a "TE" instead of a "WR" if their so much more valuable...And did Sharp ever lead the "MuleHead"s in receptions/yards/"TD"s...It goes on and on in the history of the NFL...
And how many "RB"s threw time have been leading receivers on their teams...But the idea of using "RB"s-n-"TE"s as prime receivers is of course ludicrous when we have far more talent/experience at "RB"-n-"TE" than we do at "WR"...
Than there are the "FB"s who were amongst the leading receivers on some teams...But NOT today...Only a "WR" can do that job in today's NFL...
Ya Right!!!...They need to put down the "Purple Drank" and get their heads out of those plastic "Glue Bag"s before their heads explode...The stupidity is endless...
PantyRaider...Just Disgusting!!!/_
This from another set of eyes at the camp practices...A Raider fan and not a "Mediot"...
----------------------------------
He has added alot of higher percentage passing plays to the offense in the little that I've seen so far.
If you watch Raven’s highlights from last year they implement alot of “react” plays. That would include alot of play-action bootlegs from the QB, reverses and most often being screen-plays. Those are the types of play calls used to slow down the pass rush and misdirection leading to good yardage. We’ve already seen alot of successful screen plays this pre-season.
---------------------------------
Fairly close to what I have been posting as an approach that needs some consideration...His comments were posted in reply to my question....
Now That They Practice Under That "Cone-O-Silence" What Do You Suppose "Hue Is Adding...
He prolley wont be able to continue getting a look at things now but it's was nice to know what was being done so far...Maybe we will see some of this in the game against "SadFran"...
PantyRaider...Just Something To look for!!!/_
Zack Miller "TE" 66 receptions led all receivers "09"...
Shannon Sharpe "TE" "93"-"98" receptions for "Mulehead"s...
81...87...63...80...72...64...
That would have made him the leading receiver on any of our teams of late...
Ravens 2000-03...
67...73...61...62...
Antonio Gates "04"-"09"...
81...89...71...75...60...79...
Jermichael Finley | "TE" "GB" 55 reception "09"...
Dallas Clark "TE" Indy "07"-"09"...
58...77...100...
Jeremy Shockey "TE" "02"-"09"...
74..48..61..65..66..57..50..48..
I didn't even finish searching...Are any of you tell me you don't like these #'s and wouldn't want that production on our team...Hell now add to that the list of "RB"s who have been prime receivers and anyone who doesn't believe this can be done in the new NFL is drowning in "Purple Drank"...
We have at least 2 good receivers playing "RB"...Bush/"D-Mac"...We also have 2 "TE"s who can catch...Zack/Brandon...Plus depending on who becomes "FB" that can prolley be added also..Add in Bennett if he sticks and that's 6 bodies to supplement to the passing game...
PantyRaider...Guess This Must Be RocketScience!!!/_
Damn I just hate to see such total "Neglect" of receivers on our football team...
2 "TE"s...
2-3 "RB"...
"FB"...
4-5 "WR"s....
Yup!...Total freaking "Neglect"...
PantyRaider...You Obviously Didn't Quit In Time!!!/_
Examples of the Raiders throwing to their "RB"s on past teams...Any one of these yrs were better production than we got out of our "WR"s last season...
Marcus Allen "RB" "83"-"87" receptions...
68...64...67...46...51...
Charlie Garner "RB" "01"-"03" Receptions...
72..91...48...
Napoleon Kaufman "RB" "97" 40 rec...
Mark van Eeghen "RB" "79" 51 rec..
Harvey Williams "RB" "94"-n-"95" rec...
47...54...
So don't act like this is something new to Mr Davis' teams...It's been a part of our history just as pitching to the "TE"s has been...
PantyRaider...The Historical Records Are Very Clear!!!/_
H said,
"I wouldn't consider Ismail a top flight receiver, but Baltimore seemd to get the job done with him and Sharpe."
Yeah, the team got the job done because it had the #1 defense and arguably one of the top 3 defenses in the entire history of the league.
Best Defenses of all time:
1976 Steelers
1985 Bears
2000 Ravens
http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/bestNFLdefense.html
Using the Ravens as an example is a bad idea for comparing their situation and ours. The Ravens SB championship team was clearly an aberration. The Ravens offense simply managed the game while the extraordinary defense was the key reason for their success.
Calico,
That's my point. I've always said the fastest way back to the playoffs is through a nasty mean defense.
We have upgraded the linebackers, upgraded the DL, the DB's are pretty good, or at least we are about to find out. We've played well against the run except for one play. One play is easily correctable.
We have a top notch TE, some pretty good backs if we can keep McFadden healthy.
Are there more holes to fill, absolutely. But, if after two exhibition games, we are going to fixate on a single area and say we haven't improved and the season is lost, we've got blinders on.
If you mention how well the defense played, someone comes back with, "yeah, but our receivers suck." If you talk about how Bush played, same answer. If you talk about Gallery making up for his penalty by springing Bush on his screen pass, or how he pulled and opened a big hole for Bush, you get the same answer or we suck because we gave up a single big run and a fourth down pass out of over 50 plays.
One gets the feeling that if we opened up 3-1 we'd hear, "yeah, but our receivers suck."
Each area of the team that improves has a positive effect on other areas of the team. Let's find out the overall effect before we write off the season. Let's find out who steps up and who doesn't.
H
2000 draft 1st rd #5 Jamal Lewis "RB" was also the key...
"CJ"...
I think what "H" is merely pointing out is that with a good "TE" and good "RB"s we could find ourselves in contention in the AFCW if our "D" can keep us in the games even with a suspect core of "WR"s...
I don't know if you saw it but I posted all our opponents this season -w- their records against the rush based on "09"...It was quite impressive sense the average of all 16 games was 19th against the rush...Now that's a fairly descent barometer of what we will likely face this season although not an exact measurement as things do change...Usually slowly...Up or down...
Rush "D"s we face...
#1..."SD" Twice..
#5...Tenn...
#11.."SF"...
#13.."SL"..
#16.."Fish"...
#19.."KC" Twice...
#20..Pits...
#22.."AZ"...
#27.."Houston...
#28..Seattle...
#29..Indy...
#31..Jacksonville...
#32.."MuleHead"s Twice...
The ave is #19.125...
PantyRaider...Why Wouldn't We Want To Run The Ball Against This Schedule!!!/_
Low standards. Lots of excuses as to why our WR corps is thin year in and year out. But there is no excuse for being in this position again.
Commitment to Excellence is dead. Commitment to Excuses is the new slogan around here.
I am less concerned about our WR's than others.
Despite what the silly t-shirts say, I am looking for 8 wins from the Raiders.
And I think they have enough at WR to win 8 games.
I'm more concerned about the 0-line. Why are the Raiders always drafting tackles, and moving them to the inside ?
Do the Raiders have to draft centers & guards in order to get some tackles ?
This switching everybody around on the 0-line is driving me crazy.
If we stand pat with our current WR group ...
Z. Miller & Murphy will need 60+ receptions EACH plus Bush & McFadden will need to account for 80 receptions combined to have a legit, point producing, threat worthy passing attack.
Where else do you see the receiving production coming from? Myers, N. Miller, DHB, Ford, JLH, Watkins, ... can you honestly see more than 20 receptions from any of these guys?
Schillens has the potential to be a 40+ reception WR if he could ever stay on the field.
CJ,
Raiders won 5 games last year with half a QB, and no WR's.
I think they can win 8 this yr, with upgrade at QB, and a slightly improved WR corp.
The question really is, can the 0-line block enough for anybody to do anything on offense ?
Raider00...
We already know what we don't have in the vets at "RT"-"RG"-n-"C" so I for one vote to get the young guys involved right from the start to see if we can improve enough by mid-season to be a contender...Otherwise as the vets drop the rookies wont be equiped to step in and by mid-season we may be on a down hill slide that can't be stopped...
This is also my area of deepest concern which is why I want them to come out and run block for a period of time to gain some confidence in that aspect and than build off that progress...
I fear most for the security of our "QB"s if these guys are expected to pass block substantially right from the start...Those "QB"s are the targets of opposition aggression and I doubt we have enough to protest them as of yet...We addressed it with 3-4 rd rookies but they need time to develop and we need to keep an eye on that wire for immediate veteran help...Maybe a trade for that Pits "C" would be a good idea and our rookies could concentrate on "RG"-n-"RT"...
PantyRaider....Fears At "WR" Are Overrated!!!/_
This "Mediot" post was a fairly respectable analysis of what we may still have to fear...I would say that "WR" void is grossly over emphasized by "Some" on this board to the point of being way beyond the realm of Ridicules...Absurd...Illegitimate...+ 10,000 other similar adjectives that I'm not going to list...
http://www.ibabuzz.com/oaklandraiders/2010/08/27/what-we-didnt-learn-from-training-camp/
PantyRaider...."C" May Be Our Greatest Immediate Need!!!/_
Why else would the coaches be try out a rookies there Saturday if not for it being their most glaring need...
A Statistical look at this weeks game just for reference...Don't get your feeling hurt because preseason stats are up when you don't have to look at them...Right!!!...
But be assured the in game stats will be here too...
"D"....
"SadFran" is # 4 total "D" -n- 2 Passing -n- #12 rushing...#10 Sacks...#8 Scoring...Tie #4 INTs...
"OakTown" is #8 Total "D" -n- #3 Passing -n #22 Rushing...#1 Sacks...Tie #3 Scoring...Tie #6 INTs...
"O"....
"OakTown" #8 "O" -n- #19 Passing -n- # 7 Rushing...#10 Scoring...
"SadFran" #21 "O" -n- #22 Passing -n- #14 Rushing...#8 Scoring...
PantyRaider...Yup!...We're Mid-Pack Passing With The Worst Core Of "WR"s In NFL History!!!/_....
Open your eyes faida fanatics, the 49ers will prove to you all that nothing is going to be different this season, the faidas will LOSE big in big smells monumental blunderdome, you'll get to see just how really bad your "d" and "o" are! This is the game that counts, any previous success was only the opponent's inability to produce, the 49ers will show that they have improved and that big smell (MR.) davis is no genius. 0-16 in regular season is the "cable-gay's" pink slip. Just wish babies. Defund the "nation", stop wasting your money on tickets to a loser.
Where's "j-busticus" when you need him? "j-cam" is not the answer, it will be shown that the Redskins got the best part of big smell's deal on this one.
Ya Bitch!!!...What's the deal here..."SadFranchise" pukes such cowards that they couldn't find the gonads to buy out that game to make it visible on the tube...Oh! Ya! I forgot...Economy got's ya by the pussies...
Chill...We Got's This One...Relax with another "Purple Drank" -n- stick that brainless sA Statistical look at this weeks game just for reference...Don't get your feeling hurt because preseason stats are up when you don't have to look at them...Right!!!...
But be assured the in game stats will be here too...
"D"....
"SadFran" is # 4 total "D" -n- 2 Passing -n- #12 rushing...#10 Sacks...#8 Scoring...Tie #4 INTs...
"OakTown" is #8 Total "D" -n- #3 Passing -n #22 Rushing...#1 Sacks...Tie #3 Scoring...Tie #6 INTs...
"O"....
"OakTown" #8 "O" -n- #19 Passing -n- # 7 Rushing...#10 Scoring...
"SadFran" #21 "O" -n- #22 Passing -n- #14 Rushing...#8 Scoring...
PantyRaider...Yup!...We're Mid-Pack Passing With The Worst Core Of "WR"s In NFL History!!!/_....cull back it your plastic "Gluesack" where it belongs...
PantyRaider..."JudeAss" "Shadow Poster"!!!/_
Damn...I gots no idea how that one happened...Something really weird out here in "CyberSpace"...
PantyRaider...Trying To Navigate Back!!!/_
Ya Bitch!!!...What's the deal here..."SadFranchise" pukes such cowards that they couldn't find the gonads to buy out that game to make it visible on the tube...Oh! Ya! I forgot...Economy got's ya by the pussies...
Chill...We Got's This One...Relax with another "Purple Drank" -n- stick that brainless scull back it your plastic "Gluesack" where it belongs...
PantyRaider..."JudeAss" "Shadow Poster"!!!/_
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Damn sure I will...That totally sucks...My damn mail box was full of this stinking crap including shit from "JudeAss"s shadow "FaidaBoy"...
Long time. Hope everyone is well.
Preseason is what it is. Seems to me that the teams that do the best in preseason usually do the worst in the real season (maybe because the crappy teams are playing thier starters more, and the good teams are playint the scrubs???)
I digress. just wanted to say I think the biggest thing to talk about this season is that STUPID plan by the owners and broadcasters to make it an 18 game season.
That's putting a wildcard team that goes to the SB at 22 games (correct me if it's actually 23. I always have trouble visualizing the playoffs since IT"S BEEN SO F-ING LONG SINCE WE"VE BEEN THERE!!!!)
-moshbucket
PS: Fantasy draft last night. Grabbed Zack late. Didn't draft a kicker or a D, will put in ours after I decide which WR's and RB's I will cut. Still haven't pulled the trigger on the Ro jersey yet, but might have to before next weekend (first Bama game)
H said: "Yep, we had a guy named Cliff Branch who was nearing the end of his career. He caught 39 passes which led all WR's. Christensen caught 92 and a guy named Marcus Allen caught 68."
H, you're missing the point. Whenever a player or players excelled from TE and/or RB positions, they had the compliment of a solid O-line, good QBing and/or good WRs.
Right now, the Raiders are suspect at all three.
So just marching out Darren McFadden and Zach Miller and pretending they're Marcus Allen and Todd Christensen is probably not gonna produce the same results, especially with all the double-teams these guys will face.
Sure, we'll give it go, because that's all the Raiders will do, short of realizing their roster deficiencies and acting on them.
The Raiders may field a decent defense this year. It would be a shame to let that go to waste.
Some want to put off til next year what perhaps can be fixed now, at least as a stop-gap measure(s) until better options become available.
"SD" Game Stats on the one that is suppose to matter...
Loss 36-21...
40% 3rd dns...
3.4yd ave on 20 rushes...
Allowed 4.2yd ave on 28 rushes...
P. Rivers 16/27 167yds 1"TD"....
Allowed D. Brees 18/27 240yds 2 "TD"s...
They look to have problems running and stopping the run this season...Hope that trend continues...Passing was average without their "PB" "WR" hold-out but their "D" had problems stopping the pass....
"KC"....Loss 17-20...
21% on 3rd dns...
4.7yd ave on 36 rushes...
Allowed 4.1 ave on 26 rushes...
M. Cassel 14/23 85yds 1"TD" 1 "INT"...
Allowed K. Kolb 11/25 103yds 1"INT"...
M Kafka 9/13 93yds 1"TD"...
They can run the ball but also will give up the run too...Their passing is inept but they did well at stopping the pass....
PantyRaider...Lets See What We Have In Comparison -w- "SF"!!!/_
"NYR"...WHAT!!!...1983 was the yr "H" posted...Here are the "WR"s...
----------------------------------
Whenever a player or players excelled from TE and/or RB positions, they had the compliment of a solid O-line, good QBing and/or good WRs.
----------------------------------
"QB" Jim Plunkett...
WR Malcolm Barnwell 25yrs old 2 seasons 16 starts 35 catches for 513 yards, 1 td, & 1 rush for 12 yards...
WR Cliff Branch 35yrs old 11 seasons 12 starts 39 catches for 696 yards, 5 td, & 1 rush for 20 yards...
1984...Now look at this one and tell us how your post applied...
QB Marc Wilson
WR Jessie Hester age 22 Rookie 16 starts 32 catches for 665 yards, 4 td, & 1 rush for 13 yards and 1 td
WR Dokie Williams age 25 -w- 2 seasons 16 starts 48 catches for 925 yards, 5 td
RB Marcus Allen*+ age 25 -w- 3 seasons 16 starts 380 rushes for 1,759 yards, 11 td, & 67 catches for 555 yards and 3 td
FB Frank Hawkins age 26 -w- 4 seasons 16 starts 84 rushes for 269 yards, 4 td, & 27 catches for 174 yards
TE Todd Christensen*+ age 29 -w- 6 seasons 16 starts 82 catches for 987 yards, 6 td
PantyRaider...You Couldn't Be Farther From The Truth!!!/_
Oh, here we go, now we are comparing stats to an 80's team to justify poor depth at WR. Different time, different game, different team. Because they could get away with it back then, doesn't mean it can work today.
Do the Raiders of today have a good oline? Do they have a threat like Marcus in the backfield? Is their Defense able to keep them in games? Then you throw in how the game has changed = apples to oranges.
If the WR's aren't a threat and the O-line can't give the Qb good enough protection....defenses will eat the Offense. The only way you can win playing conservative Offense is if the Defense is LIGHTS OUT.
JONES
Raider 00 - I agree. The Raiders should be capable of winning 8 games this season with a few favorable bounces, an improved defense, and more reliable QB play.
However, the difference between winning 6-8 games and winning 9+ is a dynamic passing attack.
My belief is that the opponent's defense will adjust their game plans in accordance with our weak outside passing game. Stacking the box, double-teaming the TE, and singling up on our outside WRs.
And Jones is exactly right ... football in the 80's and today is like night and day. On top of that, there is a huge difference between comparing Marcus Allen and Todd Christiansen to McFadden and Miller. The reasons Christiansen was so prolific was our outstanding OLine play and having the threat of arguably one of the best RBs to play the game.
PR -
I'm going to cut you some slack because you just don't get it.
In 1983:
A) The Raiders' O-line was far better, and included C Dave Dalby and Pro Bowl RT Henry Lawrence. Now we have Satele/Valdheer at C and Walker on the right side.
B) Jim Plunkett was the QB (started 13 games and had 20 TDs).
C) Even though Cliff Branch was aging and only had 39 receptions, the Raiders spread the ball out extremely well, including 35 rec by Barnwell. 35 rec’s by then #2 WR is better output than any Raiders WR in many years.
D) As I said, McFadden and Miller can not be confused with Allen and Christensen. I hope nobody is ready to go out on that limb.
E) Kenny King was our FB. He has no match on the current Raiders roster.
F) Today's NFL is a passing league. Todd Christensen's 92 rec probably led the league in 1983. Today, that barely makes top ten. On some teams today, 92 is a solid #2 performer.
G) The Raiders defense was stout. It was a who’s who of Pro Bowl players (5 PB players to be exact, plus guys like Lyle Alzado, Matt Millen, etc).
Now if you really think a comparison of the 1983 Raiders to today’s squad is worth while, you are probably alone. I’m not sure some of your buddies will follow you out on that limb.
Now get a grip of yourself and jump back into the 21st Century.
New pre-game take is up.
"NYR"...
NO...You grip it and take a look at "85" as I posted and the output of the "RB"-"FB"-"TE" was just as high with the likes of...
QB Marc Wilson
WR Jessie Hester
WR Dokie Williams
You are wrong so deal with it...
PantyRaider...Just Laughin Baby!!!/_
PR -
You keep moving the target, but you still can't (and won't) find a team more pathetic than the team(s) Raiders have fielded the past seven years.
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