A Little Less "More, More, More," Please
I’ve complained in the past about the Raiders being too retrograde in their operations and their marketing, and I still think there’s room for progress.
But right now I believe that the NFL could now use a dose of Raiders-style “retro-ness,” because I fear that the league is rapidly losing its roots, and perhaps undoing the very things that have made it so successful for so long.
Indeed, shortly after charging 4,000 fans $200 each to watch the Super Bowl on a big screen outside of Cowboys Stadium for a tidy profit of $800,000, the NFL is flirting with sticking a fork in the golden goose with an impending lockout.
(Now, I think that the Raiders could use more porta potties and other gameday fan amenities, but charging 4,000 folks $200 to watch a game outside of a stadium just because you can doesn’t mean it’s a good or noble idea).
One sticking point in the negotiations is the 18-game season. After a year in which the NFL tripped all over itself to demonstrate its supposed concern for player safety, it wants to add about 15% more full-speed playing time to the schedule.
We now have games on Monday night, and Sunday night, and Thursday night. Pretty soon, it will four nights, then five.
More is not always better. Quantity does not always equal quality. But that seems to be the NFL’s motto these days: More, more, more.
The league is gorging on the buffet of seemingly endless fan goodwill. Tasty? Sure. Healthy? Not in the long run.
I love how the debate about the two extra games has been framed: “Hey, it’s two more real games, which means we can now stop ripping you off for the equivalent of two meaningless pre-season games!”
It reminds me of the serial killer who left a message for the cops at one of his crime scenes: “Stop me before I kill again!”
Why do we need two more games? Did you really want to see two more Carolina Panthers games last year? Didn’t the season sort of seem long enough? By the time of the Super Bowl, we were 22 weeks deep if you count each team’s bye week and the week between the championships and the Super Bowl. For me, that’s plenty.
A big part of the NFL is anticipation. Anticipating the season, anticipating the next game, anticipating Sunday. Soon, there will be nothing to anticipate. There will be games on every day, and the regular season and playoffs will span nearly six months, or half the year.
Isn’t that baseball’s problem? The seemingly interminable, always-on nature of the season? Ask the MLB how that's working out.
In terms of the players vs. the owners, I don’t have a dog in the hunt. I don’t really understand all of the nuances of the revenue sharing, and who really deserves what.
All I know is that the NFL is starting to look gluttonous. I want the league to succeed, and I don’t mind everyone involved, the players and the owners, getting rich.
But there’s something increasingly soulless about the league. I’m not naïve. I understand that the NFL has always been a product in one way or another, and that the objective is to make money, as it should be.
My take, however, is that the product is being eroded. I think that the league’s success is being taken for granted, and that there’s an assumption it will always be this way, so that if some is good, more must be better. More, more, more.
The irony is that in the relentless pursuit of "more," the NFL might actually end up giving us nothing for 2011 if the lockout persists.
Go figure.
But right now I believe that the NFL could now use a dose of Raiders-style “retro-ness,” because I fear that the league is rapidly losing its roots, and perhaps undoing the very things that have made it so successful for so long.
Indeed, shortly after charging 4,000 fans $200 each to watch the Super Bowl on a big screen outside of Cowboys Stadium for a tidy profit of $800,000, the NFL is flirting with sticking a fork in the golden goose with an impending lockout.
(Now, I think that the Raiders could use more porta potties and other gameday fan amenities, but charging 4,000 folks $200 to watch a game outside of a stadium just because you can doesn’t mean it’s a good or noble idea).
One sticking point in the negotiations is the 18-game season. After a year in which the NFL tripped all over itself to demonstrate its supposed concern for player safety, it wants to add about 15% more full-speed playing time to the schedule.
We now have games on Monday night, and Sunday night, and Thursday night. Pretty soon, it will four nights, then five.
More is not always better. Quantity does not always equal quality. But that seems to be the NFL’s motto these days: More, more, more.
The league is gorging on the buffet of seemingly endless fan goodwill. Tasty? Sure. Healthy? Not in the long run.
I love how the debate about the two extra games has been framed: “Hey, it’s two more real games, which means we can now stop ripping you off for the equivalent of two meaningless pre-season games!”
It reminds me of the serial killer who left a message for the cops at one of his crime scenes: “Stop me before I kill again!”
Why do we need two more games? Did you really want to see two more Carolina Panthers games last year? Didn’t the season sort of seem long enough? By the time of the Super Bowl, we were 22 weeks deep if you count each team’s bye week and the week between the championships and the Super Bowl. For me, that’s plenty.
A big part of the NFL is anticipation. Anticipating the season, anticipating the next game, anticipating Sunday. Soon, there will be nothing to anticipate. There will be games on every day, and the regular season and playoffs will span nearly six months, or half the year.
Isn’t that baseball’s problem? The seemingly interminable, always-on nature of the season? Ask the MLB how that's working out.
In terms of the players vs. the owners, I don’t have a dog in the hunt. I don’t really understand all of the nuances of the revenue sharing, and who really deserves what.
All I know is that the NFL is starting to look gluttonous. I want the league to succeed, and I don’t mind everyone involved, the players and the owners, getting rich.
But there’s something increasingly soulless about the league. I’m not naïve. I understand that the NFL has always been a product in one way or another, and that the objective is to make money, as it should be.
My take, however, is that the product is being eroded. I think that the league’s success is being taken for granted, and that there’s an assumption it will always be this way, so that if some is good, more must be better. More, more, more.
The irony is that in the relentless pursuit of "more," the NFL might actually end up giving us nothing for 2011 if the lockout persists.
Go figure.
posted by Raider Take at 8:08 AM
186 Comments:
Back in the day.......there were SIX preseason games and 14 Regular games. It was 20 games just like it would be today, only with 2 worthless games instead of six. The owners need the revenue, the fans are tired of paying for meaningless games, what's the hubbub? The players just want a bigger chunk for playing 2 more meaningful games.
The extra weeks involved is because of the wildcard teams in the playoffs. Again, more revenue for the teams. I say, keep the Saturday and Thursday games for the end of the year.
If the players do not sign and there is a lockout, well, the country will be turned off and they will be shooting themselves in the foot, the rest is a natural progression. No need for 4 preseason games anymore, players come in with mini camps and year round fitness program......let the games begin.
JONES
Well said, RT. That's mid-season form for an off-season take.
I'm torn on making the season 18 games. As meaningless as the last couple pre-season games appear to some folks, I believe it is somewhat critical to the process of paring down rosters, establishing practice squads and searching the waiver wire for depth.
It does appear the NFL (and players) are once again allowing greed to get the best of them. I don't know many fans who really side one way or another, but most agree that there should be more than enough money to go around without all the drama of a protracted CBA negotiation every freakin' time one expires.
In a matter of days, the absence of a new agreement will start to impact the 2011 season. At the end of the day, that's all the fans care about.
Good take, RT.
However, if the platform is 20 total games come hell or high water, I would lean towards more regular season games and less exhibition games.
One possibility that isn't talked about is a 17/3 split. 16 teams (2 in each division) would play 9 home games and 8 away games while 16 teams (other 2 in each division) would play 8 home games and 9 away games. Each season it would rotate.
3 pre-season games
17 regular season games
2 bye weeks
4 weeks of the existing playoff format
Start the 1st Sunday after labor Day. End on the 2nd Sunday of Feb.
Adding 1 regular season game, subtracting 1 meaningless pre-season game, adding 1 additional bye week seems to be a sensible, beneficial compromise. The rosters should go from 60 players per team vice 53, 50 active on game day vice 45, and loosen up the rules about IR and using the practice squad.
It's possible that expanding the rosters (salary base) for the purpose of adding more games reaches a point of marginal returns for the NFL, all at the risk of diluting the product.
The biggest bang for my buck is keeping the season at 16 games. Plus, I hate the bye week (Raiders seem to always come back flat), so adding a second bye week wouldn’t make me happy.
The NFL has a revenue base for pre-season games. I threw them $40 to watch ridiculously bad feed on the Internet. I'd be happier if they spent their time and money upgrading that system.
Another point is regarding NFL records. Increasing the number of games increases the plateau for individual and team performances over a season (player career records too). Good or bad, that's how many records have fallen in the past, with an asterisk next to them.
>>>>
3 pre-season games
17 regular season games
2 bye weeks
4 weeks of the existing playoff format
>>>
Hey... I said it first! lol Thanx for expanding on the idea... I think its a perfect compromise. 18 does seem too high, and there's just too damn many practice games right now.
Thanx for changing the Take, RT.
routt signs for 3 more years @ 31 million? WOW WOW WEE! what an incredible waste of valuable $$$$ on a guy that gets burned too damn much. good job al!
Well said NY.
And the Sunday Ticket price WILL go up if they add games. Each game becomes less important the more there are. Eventully we'll have a 68 game flag football league.
As for Route, corners get burned, it's part of the job:
Routt was thrust back into the starting lineup after being tendered at the highest level (1st and 3rd round level) by the Raiders. And statistically had his best year to date with 55 tackles, tackle for loss, 15 PD, 1 FF, 2 INT, 1 TD. He also more than held his own as he filled in matching up against top receivers Mike Wallace (Steelers) and Dwayne Bowe (Chiefs) while Asomugha was out several games with a high ankle sprain and played a hand in helping the Raiders secondary finish 2nd in the league in Pass Defense trailing only San Diego Chargers. He played brilliant in Week 9 against the Chiefs to take the division lead while holding Dwayne Bowe to 3 catches for 24 yards and also did the same in Week 17 while also adding a INT for TD en route to capping off an 8-8 season, the best since 2002. He and Nnamdi Asomugha teamed together to form the #1 CB tandem in the NFL surrendering a stingy 38% completion rating and only 4 TD's given up rivaling the Jets tandem of Revis and Cromartie at 43% and 10 TD's. Routt himself would finish with 10 lowest Opp QB rating (69%) and the 2nd lowest comp % in the NFL among all corners behind Revis.
Thanks, amigos.
Is it just me or is the recent cash give away eerily similar to the crazy off seasons that we grew accustomed to up until last year. High priced signings that do not seem based on market value.
Who was going to offer Route anything close to $20 million guaranteed?
This is not a good at all.
Roy
For all you Al Davis apologists who think any Raiders' DC has a say in the defense, here's what Hue Jackson has to say about naming a new DC.
“Honestly I don’t think that’s the issue right now who the defensive coordinator right now because our system’s our system. We know exactly what we’re going to do. The guys who are there know exactly how we’re going to coach that particular side of the ball."
Why even bother hiring a DC?
J-Mac had previously reported this:
"Whoever the coordinator is, Jackson said the Raiders would remain primarily a 4-3 team but be multiple in scope, meaning whoever the coordinator is will come into a situation where scheme and philosophy is pretty much in place."
Note to Al Davis apologists: Please don't type another word about how Davis doesn't dictate the defensive scheme!
Somehow, without playing a single snap, Wimbley went from making $650k to $3.5M to $10.1M
How is that possible? Am I missing something?
And with the mega contract given to Routt, the chance of signing Asomugha just went down even more (note to Gary).
Of course, if he does sign, that means the Raiders will have tied up somewhere in the neighborhood of $40M annually on three players (all on defense).
First this:
>>>
Routt himself would finish with 10 lowest Opp QB rating (69%) and the 2nd lowest comp % in the NFL among all corners behind Revis.
>>>
And then this RIGHT BELOW IT:
>>>
Who was going to offer Route anything close to $20 million guaranteed?
>>>>
Prolly a lot of teams actually.
Jeesh.
I'm not a huge fan of him, but what would you guys be screaming if we lost BOTH Asum and Routt??
Yeah, Routt at 10 mill plus is a steal, Wimbley at 10 mill is a great deal, Seymour, if he can last a full year. Hue declaring HIMSELF the DC, Who said you couldn't see it coming?
JONES
Over 30 mill for 3 players, throw in Tommy Kelly's, McClain's contract and WHOOOO, money really does grow on tree's. Is Al banking on no salary cap or what? Hue saying the Defensive scheme is already in place, LMFAO, hey "crew", how do you like them apples? Now do people see why Cable was good for this franchise? Al is running amock and there is no one left to talk him down, Hue is kissing his ass more than Cable ever did, you got what you wanted, stay tuned, more to come.
JONES
"Somehow, without playing a single snap, Wimbley went from making $650k to $3.5M to $10.1M"
I like Wimbley and glad he is back on the Raiders but this is just bad business.
Every additional $M doled out to Wimbley ties our hands to sign additional players.
The thing that strikes me as odd, ridiculous, funny, and head scratching is that we easily could have signed Wimbley for a 3 year $10M deal but instead thought it was good business to sign him for 1 year at $10M.
Well said, RT. But the NFL has been eroding for a long time now.
The way I put it is, in between all the commercials, and penalty flags, is a football game somewhere.
It's gotten to the point where, when I see Ed Hokuli's face, I pretty much change the channel.
The games his crew refs are unwatchable.
Yep, I long for the days when we didn't even know the officials names.
We didn't know how much money our favorite players were making.
When we didn't know about players agents, and contract negotiations, and endless, pulled hamstrings.
We didn't know the dollar value of the franchise.
We didn't suffer if our team played in an old stadium, rather then a state of the art facility.
A time when the fans at the game were actually watching the game. Not wandering around, looking for the best food to eat.
Yep, sure is about time to pop in a copy of Super Bowl XI.
Is there a salary cap issue that suddenly is in place? My only concern with Al in spending money is if he cannot sign good players because he cant afford it.
Obviously the opposite seems to be the truth.
Why does anyone care how much money Al spends to keep this team together?
Please explain... I don't have a IAAFer interpreter handy...
Well, if he has unlimited money, then why not buy a few more porta potties for gameday? Anyhow, I digress...
Now, you could debate whether or not this is a matter of overspending on players.
But that's not what you're debating, right?
It sounds like you're saying, well, spending like a drunken sailor is good management as long as you have the money.
I would say that chronically overspending on players is a sign of poor management.
Aren't we on the brink of losing Aso because of money? But wait, I thought it grew on trees in Alameda?
$3.5M sounded high, but $10.1M means Wimbley just won the Al Davis lottery.
SF's deal with Willis is $53M over seven years.
Chicago's deal with Urlacher is $40M over five years.
Wimbley is set to make more annually than both these guys.
Have the Raiders become the dumb blonde who believes she must still have money because she still has unwritten checks in her checkbook?
Once again, the Raiders are banking their entire roster on a hand full of overpaid players.
One thing for certain, the Raiders defensive scheme is set in stone.
From CJ -
Gary: How do you expect the Raiders to sign external free agents such as Santana Moss or any other desirable free agent? Does Al have an ATM in his office? Does he have an unlimited budget? Of course not. He has a budget (or wherewithal) to spend "x" amount of dollars on a 53 man roster.
As I alluded to earlier, each additional, unnecessarily spent $1M
is in effect $1M less to spend on additional players or in some cases, our own players.
Using a few of the recent signees to illustrate the point:
John Henderson - We spent $4M for his services this year.
A reasonable (actually VERY generous offer would have been $1.5M)
Karmeion Wimbley - We spent $10.1M. A fair market contract would be in the neighborhood of 3 years at $4M per year.
Do the math. We would have $8.6M more to spend on other players.
CJ
CJ: I'm not a NFL executive, I don't know what the fair value is of these players on the open market.
How do you know what Wimbley is worth after last season?
>>>>
Do the math. We would have $8.6M more to spend on other players.
CJ
>>>>>
What does this even MEAN? I don't know what Al's budget is, and there isn't a salary cap in place...
WTF are you even talking about?
If the budget is UNKNOWN, why are you pretending its an arbitrary figure?
If Al is planning on spending unlimited money to keep the team together before a new CBA is in place, why on earth are you COMPLAINING about it?
Just because everyone else does here?
According to Forbes, the Raiders are worth $758 million. How are they able to spend like this, and how long will it be before the Raiders completely tank in a monetary sense?
>>>>
Gary: How do you expect the Raiders to sign external free agents such as Santana Moss or any other desirable free agent?
>>>
I dunno... maybe hes going to rob a bank... or sell cocaine like DeLorean. I've never heard Al say he didn't sign "XXXX" because he didn't have enough money. Have you?
>>>
Does Al have an ATM in his office?
>>>>
You tell me? He seems to always keep the players he wants somehow... maybe the NFL is more lucrative than you obviously think.
If you have proof that Al is about broke, produce it please.
>>>>
Raided Nate 75 said...
According to Forbes, the Raiders are worth $758 million. How are they able to spend like this, and how long will it be before the Raiders completely tank in a monetary sense?
>>>>
LOL!
WHens the last time you've heard of a NFL team go broke?
The 60's??
Good gawd... THE SKY IS FALLING THE SKY IS FALLLING!
This time its not the team that is going to stink...its our OWNER's BANKROLL!!
Ok, someome tell me how a 27 year old LB coming off a season with NINE sacks isn't worth $10 million a year on the open market?
NINE SACKS.
James Harrison had 10.5
Freeney: 10
Jared Allen: 11
Suggs: 11
Julius Peppers: 8
Cmon people... Wimbley might still be signing a longterm contract that makes the deal more reasonable.
The Routt deal will prolly work out to 7 mill a year which is prolly median for a CB, if not low.
Take a breath people... leave the hysteria to ESPN.
>>>>
A fair market contract would be in the neighborhood of 3 years at $4M per year.
>>>>
This is about as big of a line of BS I have ever read hear, and that sez a lot.
No way has any 27 yr old free agent coming off a nine sack season signed a frigging contract for 4 million a year... this is downright ignorance.
Please.
Davis is on a spending spree during a very uncertain period in terms of the CBA, salary cap, and revenue sharing. Where would the Raiders be right now without revenue sharing? They have sunken to at or about the lowest attendance level in the NFL, and they have essentially lost their once long-held prime-time TV privileges.
Gary thinks there's nothing wrong with throwing caution to the wind, or that Wimbley will now be paid above the likes of Patrick Willis and Brian Urlacher.
Nine sacks is terrific, but didn't he have like four sacks in one game, then disappear for long stretches at a time.
And Wimbley isn't a LB that consistently stops the run, like the LBs in his pay new scale (who are mostly MLBs).
It’s a complete mystery.
"Ok, someome tell me how a 27 year old LB coming off a season with NINE sacks isn't worth $10 million a year on the open market?
NINE SACKS.
James Harrison had 10.5
Freeney: 10
Jared Allen: 11
Suggs: 11
Julius Peppers: 8"
OH, so Wimbley is in this class of player now? Because he has A STAT that coincides with these others. It reminds me of that Sesame St. song....which one doesn't belong. That would be Wimbley. Here come the stats that don't add up again, same ole tricks by the only "crew" member left. All the rest have "jumped ship" when they proclaimed they were the REAL fans.
JONES
"Gary thinks there's nothing wrong with throwing caution to the wind, or that Wimbley will now be paid above the likes of Patrick Willis and Brian Urlacher."
How long before he starts to declare that Al is hitting out of the park? If there is a salary cap, maybe they will give Al a do-over because he thought the deal was done already? Hey Al, why sign the fringe players to big money when there might be a huge amount of free agents to throw money at? There is a reason why other teams aren't throwing money around right now. At least Al gives us something to write about again.
JONES
>>>>
How long before he starts to declare that Al is hitting out of the park? If there is a salary cap, maybe they will give Al a do-over because he thought the deal was done already?
>>>>
Uhh moron, no way will they suddenly throw a salary cap on contracts ALREADY WRITTEN.
How could a cap even be drawn up to cover contracts already written???
JFC... use your brain every once in awhile.
So you are telling me there is no chance for a cap? Gary, what do you know that the rest of the world doesn't?
JONES
>>>>
And Wimbley isn't a LB that consistently stops the run, like the LBs in his pay new scale (who are mostly MLBs).
It’s a complete mystery.
>>>>
So is your point that Al should not have franchised him and risk losing him? And how much would you have squealed if someone like KC, SD, or Denver picked him up?
Or is your point that we shoulda just signed him to a 4 mill a year contract like CJ suggested?
Like that number is set in stone or something equally rediculous.
If you want to make the point that Al shouldnt be signing these contracts because HE CANT AFFORD them, then show your fucking homework and prove that AL is broke.
Until then this is all just the usual IAAFer THE SKY IS FALLING bullshit.
Same shit... different day.
As far as using your brain.....claiming that Routt is worth 10+ mill, Wimbley is in an elite class and that it's ok that the franchise is going back to insanityville. Yup, that Gary, he sure uses his brain?
JONES
"Like that number is set in stone or something equally rediculous."
Ahh, here we are, the "crew" member spelling R I D I C U L O U S (rediculous) and L O S E R (looser) wrong. Is that mandatory to be a member? Hey, the stripper bar is open, you better get a runnin.
JONES
"How could a cap even be drawn up to cover contracts already written???"
Huh? Does that make sense to anyone but Gary?
Gary:
My points about the wild spending were pretty simple but obviously flew right over your head.
If you don't think over-spending has repercussions, that is your choice but quite frankly it a very naive view of the real business world.
No matter how much Davis intends to spend on the 2011 payroll, there are choices and priorities that dictate consequences.
Bottom Line: Getting the most bang for our buck and putting together the best possible 53 man roster go hand in hand.
Let's use the most obvious example that has been reported on regularly; Nnamdi Asomugha.
Nnamdi Asomugha is a proven performer, first class citizen, and life long Raider.
To re-sign Nnamdi, it is fair to assume it would take a $15M+ per year deal.
To suggest that over-spending on Henderson, Wimbley, and Routt, doesn't have ramifications on re-signing Asomugha is categorically false.
Paying steak prices for hamburger is the best analogy I can describe when you pay good players elite type money.
Routt is Champ Bailey material? They are getting paid the same.... reminds me of Godfather III. Just when you think they are out of it, Al pulls them back in. Godfather III sucked by the way.
Is Al's vendettas ruling his thought process? Is he still living with the idea that he must screw the league over, is this ahead of WINNING? By signing these avg players to huge money, does it not throw the labor agreement into turmoil? Could this be a planned attack at the league by Al Davis? I'm truly trying to understand his thought process, what is it that REALLY motivates him in the dusk of his life.
He makes outrageous signings to make the moves he does look great? His pick of Routt, Routt is a career 3rd corner, Al has just made him an elite corner, is Al trying to show he knows what everyone else doesn't?
His trade of Seymour, needing to justify him by signing him to huge money. Wimbley and the trade of a 3rd rounder is now a top paid LB. Campbell, DHB. Watch, when it comes time to sign DMac again, he will lowball him, or Huff because he was "Art's pick".
He is definitely working under his own design and I'm not so sure the top priority is winning, at this point. It seems to be more of vendettas and ego that rule the agenda. As we can see, it isn't a recipe for wins.
We, the fans, deserve better, 2 steps forward and 3 steps back, like Chris Carr (sp) of the Ravens saying that he doesn't want to go back to a team that can barely make it to 8-8, like the Raiders. All arrows are pointing to a step back again. Guess Cable will be blamed for messing up the team when they fall below .500 again next year. Around the circle, one more time.
JONES
oops....just read J mac and saw he wrote about this....didn't read his till now, not trying to plagiarize.
JONES
It's pretty insane that Davis would qualify potentially not re-signing Asomugha by suggesting he could sign three players instead, only to write huge checks to lesser players.
Value in not re-signing Asomugha can only come from making smart decisions in the players you sign instead. Paying Wimbley and Routt at the top of their position pay scales is not a good way to start.
NYR -
That was my point about "over-spending has ramifications" and "there are choices and priorities that dictate consequences."
>>>>
To suggest that over-spending on Henderson, Wimbley, and Routt, doesn't have ramifications on re-signing Asomugha is categorically false.
>>>>
I guess we shall see, won't we?
I still think Asum stays.
I'm not saying there won't be casualties though.. Gallery for one, might not be back.
>>>>
Calico Jack said...
NYR -
That was my point about "over-spending has ramifications" and "there are choices and priorities that dictate consequences."
>>>>
What were the consequences when Al overspent on Asum, Lechler, Jani, and even our long-snapper?
Be specific.
Gary -
It is quite simple. When there is a hard cap, Davis knows how much he can spend on his roster. If there is no cap, Davis knows how much he is willing and capable of spending on his roster. When you over-spend on players, it shrinks the dollars that can be allocated to other players (your own free agents and external free agents).
You keep naively thinking that Davis has an unlimited budget to spend but he doesn't. He has to make choices on which players to keep, which to let go, and how aggressive he can be in the free agent market.
BTW, when Davis over-spent on Lechler, SeaBass, Asomugha, and Condo, how many NEW free agents did we bring aboard? Seymour and Wimbley were brought via trade. The only external free agent during this period that I can think of is Rock Cartright, a journeyman 3rd RB/ST player.
This is my entire point. Each additional wasted $1M is one less $1M to spend on additional players.
I know you will fall-back on your argument of "it's not your money, why do you care?" I care because I want the best possible 53 man roster where we get the most bang for our buck.
Simple questions for you:
Do you think Henderson would have re-signed for 2 years/$4M? I do.
Do you think Routt would have re-signed for 3 years/$21M ($15M guaranteed)? I do.
Do you think Wimbley would have re-signed for 3 years/$15M? I do.
This would be a $10M savings and very fair, generous contracts to dole out.
To act like this extra $10M wouldn't come in handy to help re-sign some of our other players or to aggressively pursue external free agents is a pretty dim business view.
If Davis can more or less throw away $10M like that (or however many millions of dollars he clearly could have saved), why do you suppose he faught Kiffin and Cable for their minimal salaries?
Is this further proof that the priority of winning had been compromised during both those regimes?
As I said before, there are other issues, like profit-sharing, league-lowest ticket sales, etc, that place the Raiders at greater risk here.
Maybe Davis knows more than the rest of the league owners (who mostly prefer to sit tight), but he appears to be gambling away the title to his house like a drunken fool.
>>>>
Maybe Davis knows more than the rest of the league owners (who mostly prefer to sit tight), but he appears to be gambling away the title to his house like a drunken fool.
>>>>
Considering you basically want him to die, or turn over the keys to someone else... why aren't you rooting for him to go broke so he has to sell the team to someone else?
Or do you just like whining about him because thats your default position in life?
>>>>
Do you think Henderson would have re-signed for 2 years/$4M? I do.
>>>>
How would I know?
>>>
Do you think Routt would have re-signed for 3 years/$21M ($15M guaranteed)? I do.
>>>>
How would I know?
>>>>
Do you think Wimbley would have re-signed for 3 years/$15M? I do.
>>>>
This one might have been a knee-jerk decision on Al's part... he for sure didn't want to lose his sack leader, and might have pulled the trigger on the franchise tag before it expired.
Shrug?
Not sure why all you people are sitting here using 20/20 hindsite when you are obviously qualified to be NFL GM's.
What jobs do you do to bypass such a lucrative payday?
CEO's of major businesses I hope!
No need to be a CEO, it's very basic, basic is what you have a hard time grasping. You keep your head in the clouds and watch your strippers, that is your gift to this world. Basic economics, basic football management and football knowledge is your weakness, we get it.
JONES
Gary -
I don't know with any certainty whether Henderson, Routt, or Wimbley would have signed the contracts that I suggested. However, it doesn't take a rocket scientist, GM, or Federal mediator to figure out a few simple facts:
Henderson is at the tail end of his career. Last season he was injured and played only a handful of games. Do you honestly think another team would have signed him for much more than 1 year at slightly above the veteran's min. of $1M?
Routt received the highest possible tender last year of $3.268M. He has had 1 good season in the NFL. To act like going from $3.268M to $7M (more than double) for 3 years wouldn't have got him to sign is foolish. Just look at what the ELITE cornerbacks are paid and it is pretty easy to slot Routt a full notch or 2 below that. The Elite cornerbacks(Bailey, Asomugha, Revis) are the only cornerbacks earning $10M+.
Wimbley was making $650K and was due to make $3.5M this year ... now $10M? Please.
A little common sense and using the salaries of existing players gives more than enough guidance for fair market contracts.
As I said before, if we signed Henderson to $2M/1yr, Routt to $7M/ 3yrs, and Wimbley at $5M/3yrs, these would have been very generous offers. The over-spending when it simply wasn't necessary is simply bad management.
BTW, who were we bidding against?
Given the fact that I've been able to call numerous Raiders missteps in advance of their eventual outcome, I guess I must be a Fortune 500 CEO, at least on paper.
Gary, you seem to be saying that the Raiders aren't overspending, or they are and you are rooting for them to do so.
Either way, I don't get it.
>>>>
Henderson is at the tail end of his career. Last season he was injured and played only a handful of games. Do you honestly think another team would have signed him for much more than 1 year at slightly above the veteran's min. of $1M?
>>>>
Ok... you're whining like NYR now... I don't even know the amount you are whining about... one million, or is it two a year?
If you think the season is going to swing on such things like this, you are on crack.
>>>>
Routt received the highest possible tender last year of $3.268M.
>>>>
And nobody will want to mention that nearly every single one of you guys had an even bigger conniption about that "Crazy Al" signing last season... but all of you suddenly didn't say a word once he started performing.
As USUAL.
>>>
He has had 1 good season in the NFL. To act like going from $3.268M to $7M (more than double) for 3 years wouldn't have got him to sign is foolish. Just look at what the ELITE cornerbacks are paid and it is pretty easy to slot Routt a full notch or 2 below that. The Elite cornerbacks(Bailey, Asomugha, Revis) are the only cornerbacks earning $10M+.
>>>>
Bailey is at the end of his career, and Revis had to nearly hold out to get $10+.
We've all seen the stats of Routt, CJ.
To pretend he wouldn't have gotten a great contract elsewhere is just a wild guess. CB's are kinda in demand in the NFL.
Sorry to inform you of this.
Carry on....
>>>
Gary, you seem to be saying that the Raiders aren't overspending, or they are and you are rooting for them to do so.
>>>>
Uhh, let me type slower for you then.
I was wondering why NYR wasn't rooting for Al to go broke so we could get a new owner.
Is that clearer now?
Okey dokey, I'll type even slower than that: Mine was an either/or question. So what's your answer?
>>>
Raider Take said...
Okey dokey, I'll type even slower than that: Mine was an either/or question. So what's your answer?
>>>>
Actually I am not saying they are or they aren't... mostly that time will tell.
I'm just trying to figure out why a person that wants the owner of his team dead, or no longer in charge... wouldn't be rooting for him to become bankrupt so he could no longer be in charge?
Wouldn't that be his dream? Al doesn't seem to die or turn control to anyone else until he dies.
>>>>
Raider Take said...
Given the fact that I've been able to call numerous Raiders missteps in advance of their eventual outcome, I guess I must be a Fortune 500 CEO, at least on paper
>>>>>
Where was your prediction of last years improvement RT?
You were too much of a pussy to even make a prediction of a W/L record... kinda funny to see yourself patting yourself on the back now.
Or do you think last season was another unmitigated disaster (which is all you have been predicting since Kiffin cut your balls off ("minty fresh."))
"Ok... you're whining like NYR now... I don't even know the amount you are whining about... one million, or is it two a year?"
Not whining just pointing out that a guy like Henderson would be lucky to get another team to sniff around him for more than the vet. min. of $1M. $2M for 1 season as opposed to $8M for 2 seasons. That is a $6M difference. I guess $6M wouldn't be useful to re-sign our other unsigned players or additional talent, right? Didn't think so.
"And nobody will want to mention that nearly every single one of you guys had an even bigger conniption about that "Crazy Al" signing last season... but all of you suddenly didn't say a word once he started performing."
Are you asking if Routt earned $3.268 last season? Yes, I think he did. Does that mean that after 1 good season we should open the vault for him like he is an established, elite CB? No. Does it warrant a 310% raise. Absolutely not.
"Bailey is at the end of his career, and Revis had to nearly hold out to get $10+."
Bailey and Revis were 2 of the top 5 CBs in the league. Are you implying that Routt is on par with Bailey and Revis? If so, you are a complete idiot.
"We've all seen the stats of Routt, CJ."
Seen the stats and watched him play and I would say he had a good not great year. 1 good year doesn't warrant elite CB money. 1 good year warrants a good, fair, contract.
"To pretend he wouldn't have gotten a great contract elsewhere is just a wild guess. CB's are kinda in demand in the NFL.
Sorry to inform you of this"
No need to inform me. I fully understand the value of CBs. You might look up other good CBs and notice that they aren't getting paid $10M+ per season. If another team came along and outbid the Raiders, so be it. Take that $10M and invest it in 2 proven players including a CB at $5M a piece.
What, you don't think we could find a CB as good as Routt at $5M? You have no clue about the CB market. Paying a good CB $10M is the equivalent of paying a QB like Campbell $20M. Get a clue Gary. It is almost as if you endorse overpaying and that this over-spending has no consequences for future talent. Keep you head buried in the sand Gary.
Henderson was there for the taking last year, at or about the vet minimum. What he did last season was demonstrate what many teams feared, that he is getting older and an injury risk.
His value to the Raiders was that he might still have some gas left and he was inexpensive.
IMO, Al Davis turned that value into risk. If he plays eight games this year he will make in each game nearly what he made all of last season.
I guess that means nothing (to Gary) if there is no salary cap. But what are the chances of that?
As J-Mac pointed out, Davis continues to raise the bar for player salaries at a time when all the other league owners are trying to negotiate in their own best interests for a new CBA.
The Raiders (who are on a spending spree) represent the bottom of the league in terms of ticket sales, stadium, etc, that devalue them as a franchise. I would imagine that the newly signed big-money contracts - with the tremendous financial liability they represent - diminishes their valuation even lower.
Another thought is that Davis has discovered a new way to approach an old vendetta. Hasn't he been embattled with the NFL since the beginning of time? It’s almost like he is forcing these huge contracts down the throat of the entire NFL as just another ‘F-U, I’ll do whatever I want.’
At the end of the day, I guess you can ask yourself if you think Davis re-signing any of the aforementioned players (with huge pay increases) makes the Raiders a better team?
Probably not.
IMO, the Raiders would have a better chance of improvement if Davis had taken the money he committed to Henderson and used it to bring in a top level DC and give him the authority to remake the defense.
That, IMO, would have a far better chance of improving the team than simply passing out 400% pay raises to the existing players in a failed system.
Here's what Henderson did to earn a huge pay increase from Al Davis.
from the media:
"He played in a career-low nine games with a career-worst 30 tackles and did not have a sack for the first time in his career."
Somehow that translated into over 300% pay increase, which is being defended by Gary as reasonable and logical.
Keep up the good work, Gary.
Just throwing this out there.
Is it possible, when the new CBA is in place, that some of these contracts Al has negotiated will be restructured ?
We've seen this sort of thing done in the past. So it should probably remain as part of the proccess of any new deal.
"Is it possible, when the new CBA is in place, that some of these contracts Al has negotiated will be restructured ?"
Maybe....maybe the league tells Al he has to eat them for trying to bump up salaries and put the CBA talks in chaos. I think the league likes to stick it to Al, as much as Al likes to stick it to the league. It should be interesting to see how it all plays out though.
JONES
The end values of those contracts shouldn't change, particularly not the guarantees. Why should Wimbley accept one penny less than the $11+ million value of his franchise tender? Why would he? That's 3-4 years' salary wrapped into one year for him. He and a few others won the Al Davis lottery.
To Davis's credit, he always seems to get (or keep) the players he wants, at whatever the cost.
Now if he would just step down from coaching the team....
Far greater value would come from hiring a top level DC and allowing him to take over the defense. That would trump the mega contracts Davis just awarded.
RT...
Interesting perspective even if we don't share the same views...
"MORE" is NOT bad if we long for it and thirst for it...However there is a point of crossing the line but I don't think an 18 game season will be it...
As far as watching Caroline I never saw them once so that's not an issue...I haven't seen every game every night of the week and no doubt won't now either...But I do thirst for my Raiders and seeing them 18 times a season will no doubt prolong my pleasure not destroy it...
One thing we have is the control...Simply turn off and tune out what you don't need to see...Unless your finger fails to respond to your mind it shouldn't ever be an issue...Just like "NE"...I have NO desire to see them and have NOT wasted a moment watching the bastards...Even when the games are on at the bar I tune it out and pay attention to my Raiders NOT that "Cheatster Scum"....
Coach of the year for freakin what!!!...
So now I will look around to see what has transpired sense my departure...Long absence for connected info...Hopefully we have are new "DC" in place and are moving forward with more player signings...
PantyRaider...Hope I'm Not Disappointed!!!/_
Interesting...
A player who several were very high on and wanted the Raiders to take just got cut but the team who drafted him after showing absolutely noting in 3 seasons...High 1st rd pick...Now where's all the bashing-n-tears from NY for this stupidity!!!...
Vernon Gholston | #50 | LB
Meanwhile no news on Nnamdi...No offers/No deals...
Same can be said about Zack...
Bush also remains quiet after his drunken derailment...
There are also Galery and Loper on the "OL"...
That's 5 players I would very much like to have back and will keep an eye on...Otherwise I'm happy to see we are keeping some key players on our "D" and that's huge...
Meanwhile no movement at "DC"...A little confusing but certainly not the end of the world...Winston Moss is still free as I can see and available...Maybe after we have something on the "CBA" it will get done...
Here is a list of "FA"s who are available...Quite a list at virtually all positions of need...
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81e58b27/article/cba-or-no-cba-teams-still-preparing-for-freeagency-market?module=HP_cp2
Meanwhile who will we target in the draft...
Donte Moch watch:
http://blogs.nfl.com/2011/02/28/nevada-de-moch-sets-unofficial-combine-40-mark/?module=HP_cp2
PantyRaider...Lots left To Get Done!!!!/_
Projection of our 1st pick in the 2nd rd...
Ras-I Dowling, 6-2/200
Cornerback Virginia
According to the report Wiz is gone already to Detroit...
The Moch Watch:
Height:6'1"
Weight:248 lbs.
Arm Length:33 in.
Hand Size:9 1/4 in.
4.44 speed but showed better at personal workouts in the 4.20's and one time posted a 4.18...
Top Performance in:
40-yard dash | Vertical jump | Broad jump
Moch's a college defensive end and lacks size to keep his hand down in the NFL but is blessed with the burst and athleticism to develop into a 4-3 outside linebacker. Has the potential to be a pass rushing specialist. Lacks experience playing standing up in space, finding the football, and in pass coverage but fluid and quick enough to develop in these areas. Relentless in pursuit. Not stout at the point of attack and also doesn't currently have a wide arsenal of pass rushing moves. It may take some time, but Moch has several redeeming qualities. Mid-round prospect.
Mid 3rd rd or later???...
"VY" Watch:
Teams show interest in Titans QB Vince Young
A trade is unlikely, though, because of Young's contract. He's due $4.25 million 10 days after a new CBA is reached, and then he has an $8 million base salary for '11. The likely scenario is the Titans will attempt to trade Young but then give up soon after the CBA is completed and release him.
On the open market, Young is sure to find multiple suitors, even though he had repeated run-ins with coach Jeff Fisher during his tenure in Tennessee. Young does have a 26-13 record as a starter, even though he lost his starting job twice in his five-year career, including last season.
Young completed 59.6 percent of his passes in '10, throwing for 10 touchdowns with three interceptions. His 98.6 passer rating last season was the highest of his career.
PantyRaider...Establishing My Wish List!!!/_
same ol same ol in RT land i see, all the chicken little's running around with their hands over their heads and a few of the faithfull tryin to talk em off the ledge. good to know some things NEVER change.
whoa hey, that actually posted!!! haven't been able to do that for a while.
AJ Hawk has been cut by the Packers hoping to resign him.
Would he jump the coup for the right amount? That is a player worth spending the bank on.
RaiderNate75....
Not sure how AJ Hawk fits in our "D" with "DeathRo" already playing inside but certainly couldn't hurt for the right price...
frkyraider....
True very true...
The "Trail-o-Tears" in the "Valley-o-Doom-n-Gloom" remains intact no matter what happens...Hell!!...If we had just won the "SB" like "GB" they would still find something to shed a flood of tears over...Like everyone in "Pitts" should be so depressed...
PantyRaider...Perpetually On Empty!!!/_
We should be getting 2 of the following Top 100 in this draft...
Dante Mock is posted at #86 of top 100...Prolley a 3rd rd pick...
Ras-I Dowling, DB, Virginia, 6-2, 200 is at #41 and possible 2nd rd pick...
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81e93b06/article/20-out-with-old-in-with-new-top-prospects-after-combine?module=HP_cp2
We will need to address other issues 1st with "FA"s such as "QB"/"ROT"/"C" and resign the rest of our key "FA"s...Less than 2 months to get it all done...
PantyRaider....Interesting Off Season!!!/_
Wait, considering the reaction here to 8-8, I thought we did win the Super Bowl?
What for sure hasn't changed in eight years is the Raiders not posting a winning record.
I don't get it. Al Davis was clearly pissed off by the outcome of the 2010 season and felt that the team underachieved.
Yet you freak out if I have a similar outlook as Al Davis? In fact, I'm more charitable. I said that I expected a bare minimum of eight wins, and that's what I got, and I thought it was enough for Cable to keep his job, but it wasn't enough for Al Davis.
If you love Al Davis so much, I confused as to why you don't seem to share his distaste and disdain for anything less than a winning record, particularly for eight consecutive seasons?
"RT"....
Please...Don't confuse the reality...
I'm the one who was NOT happy with the outcome of 2010 at all...I post 10-n-6 or BUST!!!...Right from the start to the finish and said it was in fact a BUST when all said and done...
Now as far as Mr Davis...Is he in the dumper in your perception or moving forward with a very good coaching staff while building a productive roster...
I would have to suspect Al Davis is on a role and has very high hopes for the 2011 season if there is one...I share with him in that excitement as we move forward...I like "MrD" have NO desire to wander around in the muck-n-mire on the "Trail-0-Tears" in the "Valley-o-Doom-n-Gloom"....Like Al I'm fully expecting bigger -n- better this season with 18 exciting games on the schedule...
Now I don't get it...We're being served up a huge fresh clean mug of "Raider Koolaid" and your refusing to partake because...Well because you were lied to in years past and can't find the faith to believe now...
PantyRaider...I Don't Have Such Weaknesses!!!!/_
Nor does the NFL who projects the Raiders are moving in the right direction....
For instance:
What's your stance on the possible "FA"s who are available or don't you care to look...
Who should we be targeting in the 2nd rd next month depending upon who we sign as "FA"s or don't you care...Like last season when you projected it was a waste of time to even consider it...
Have an opinion on the CBA???
OK...We saw that you don't want more...You have had quite enough already...Right!!!...
Hell!!...I have been in disconnect for the past 2 weeks or so with travel and time in the wilderness of Cambodia in Svey Rien on the Viet Nam border...Now back in Phnom Penh I couldn't wait to get caught up on all things Raider while feeling excited about what lays ahead...But my Mug is always on the full side not wasted away in the dust of obscurity...
Hell!!!...I even bought a new partial of land for a 2nd home...Cost me 1,500,000 Riel for 50M X 75M surrounded by trees with a water pit on one end...$375...Than I spent $75 having a water well hand drilled 38M deep with a brand new hand pump installed for fresh clear ground water...
Extravagant I know but this is KOOL!!!...Even if the crash deepens I can hang out indefinitely for free!!!...Generate my power and grow my food on others lands nearby...
NOW!!!...How do I get the net and my NFL...Such difficult things to deal with in life...Maybe "NYR" will cry for me a pool of tears for the watering hole and my fish!!!...
PantyRaider...Must Be Terrible To Be So Depressed In Life!!!/_
Let's review:
- another non-winning season (eight in a row)
- another HC fired (ok, not retained)
- we find out the HC and GM have been embattled all season, with Davis deciding unilaterally to withhold the HC's pay ($20k a week)
- DC let go (lose continuity on D; or do they?)
- Raiders have yet to hire a DC, but have their defensive philosophy fully in place (essentially, the same defensive philosophy that has failed to stop the run, season after season after season.
- Raiders re-sign four defensive players at huge pay increases, one player at over 1,600% increase, and commit somewhere around $80 million to those four players.
- Raiders have six free agents on the O-line alone.
- Raiders have no first round draft pick
- .... and still no DC
This is only scratching the surface. No one really knows what damage Davis has done to the NFL owners’ best interest in the CBA by signing marginal players to mega contracts.
Some here will not like what I posted, and some of you will whine and cry about it; but there’s nothing stated here that is not based on the facts (including your crying and whining about reading the truth).
Just another banner off-season for the Raiders.
The "real" crying and whining starts with making excuses. So let 'em rip.
no excuses, non needed. we get it. your perpetual distain for all things Raider is very obvious. nothing we say is going to change your hate. hate on hater!!
you guys still pissed about the Seymour trade? yeah, that #17 pick could have filled King Richards shoes!!! oh, now it's Route your pissed about? yeah, paying a guy that just vaulted himself into the top 5 CB's in the league by being the target of every qb he plays is just silly aint it. lets talk about Huff. quite a few in here have wanted him CUT for a while now. well he's a FA, you guys happy to lose him? i would have to imagine so. you guys hated on Kelly when he got his money. refusing to look at his top 5 #'s. just scream "he doesn't deserve it!!", yeah that works. stick with pickin on DHB, at least you have a leg to stand on with him, so far. get it in while you can, because next year may be different.
I think we Raider fans just want a team that has a chance to compete. As is, the team is way behind the 8 ball before the even step on to the field. It's very obvious to those who aren't stuck on Al's nuts.
The only whiners I see are those who cry buckets o tears about people who say the truth about the Raiders. They cry like a little boy who cries about being called a fag. Get some balls kids, it's the NFL, if the Org is run like a badly run McDonalds, it ain't going to work.
All your wishing and pretending and crying doesn't change that. We should be able to voice our displeasure with our team if it is run poorly and has no chance of winning because of it, no matter how much the little boys cry.
You little boys love fairytales and dreamy realities, fine, go watch Disney shows and leave the football to men who KNOW what's up. You guys better go ask Mommy if it's lunch time yet.
JONES
Freak -
I'm just stating the facts, and you're crying and whining because you don't like them... just as I said you would.
And since when is Routt an "elite CB"? He had one good season, before which he looked like waiver bait...; suddenly he's elite?
That's the Raiders' MO this offseason... transitioning marginal players with previously market-driven salaries into the stratosphere of mega dollar contracts.
The Raiders have tried that before and failed.
BTW, I like Huff, and always have.
and we wonder why the readership around here keeps diminishing. no need to read further than the last post. (jones 8:31)
of course it's totally IMPOSSIBLE to win with the way the org is run. (<---sarcasm) thats why we have three rings in 5 trips to the dance. and i thought (just my humble opinion) we were improving, thought we took a nice step forward in 2010. doesn't mean i'm satisfied with .500, i want more, but i liked what i saw last year. just because we improved and stepped forward doesn't mean Cable deserved another couple years to see if he could continue progress. he made some mistakes. he wasn't as dedicated as he should have been. he got the Raider org sued. there was progress but it probably had more to do with Hue than it did with Tom. so Al made a move that he thought would continue the progress. i thought it was a good move. it really doesn't matter it seems what moves Al makes you people will find something you don't like and bitch about that. so tell me again why he would give a hoot what we fans think. win they come, lose they don't show. bandwagon fans will show and cheer when the winning starts. reguardless of how much they bitch, which it seems is their favorite pastime. i for one like Blitz Chicks mantra of "win, lose or tie, Raiders till i die".
don't hate, appreciate.
NYR- "I'm just stating the facts, and you're crying and whining because you don't like them... just as I said you would."
not crying, laughing. your repeated attacks and barbs thrown at "your" Raiders is laughable. you won't EVER be happy. that is the FACT. you and jones should throw an anti-raiders pity party and see how many of your fellow haters show up. i'm sure with your rosey outlooks that the two of you have tons of friends!!!(<--sarcasm and eye rolling)
"don't hate, appreciate."
You forgot the 2...4 ...6...8 before your brilliant advice. Records speak for themselves, the Raiders record shows a poor Org....your record of being on target is poor. Both of you are still continuing with your poor roads, why would anyone believe in you or a system of continued failure that is the Raiders?
I mean, you clowns write like you have it all sewed up, like you have been on target all through the 8 years. Got news flash for ya sparky, NO, you haven't, you can whine about others thoughts and cry that people are hating...BOOO HOOO, bottom line is the team is going backwards again from reaching .500.
But here we have the 2 dolts who act arrogant and disrespectful to those who have for YEARS been on target and told it like it was. It's OK, that's what DOLTS do, they don't know any better. It's OK, I forgive you.
JONES
"and we wonder why the readership around here keeps diminishing. no need to read further than the last post."
Here we have a guy who hasn't been on here for months CRYING about A post. Whining that the readership is gone down. You can thank your alter ego for that one FRKY. The insane ramblings and continued nonsensical rants drove even the "crew" away. Or maybe, they see that bad winds are blowing again and just can't bring themselves to defend it anymore.
Seems to me that Gary, Jethro and now yourself continue to try and drag it in the mud. I just oblige sometimes and you cry about it like a 5 yr old. Don't be a goof = no problems, act like a goof and you will wear it.
JONES
oh yes jones, your solid debating skills have chased all away. your nothing but a troll who just attacks people personally. you have nothing else. it's not worth peoples time to confront you and try to debate. you sir are the dolt. nothing gets thru to you.
call it crying if you'd like, doesn't make it so. i'm just stating the FACTS, you and your like never have anything good to say, about anything= hater. i know you don't like it. but i couldn't care less, it's what you are. there are plenty of people in here with debating skills and bright minds. those people are worth talking to and debating differing opinions. with you? not so much. but go ahead with your bad self and hate on hater. we all know what you are. it's nothing new.
and yes the readership here HAS diminished. and most here have curbed the personal shit for just that reason. take some ownership of it. respect and you shall receive it. and btw i never left, i've read every post now matter how disrespectful it's been. and there has been plenty of that.
Freak - the dialogue here was almost strictly football until you brought your own version of hate back to this board.
You've been back here for like 30 seconds and already you're throwing around accusations.
That's got crier and whiner written all over it.
If you'd been here after the season, you’d know many so-called 'haters' were praising the Raiders for their 8-8 campaign, only to find out afterward the very dysfunction we thought they’d rid themselves of (post-Kiffin) was still alive and kicking.
You said, “call it crying if you'd like, doesn't make it so. i'm just stating the FACTS.”
What facts? You’ve stated nothing factual. You’re here just to complain about the opinions of others, instead of forming any football-related opinions of your own.
Open your eyes. You’re the troll here.
If you want to have a football dialogue, then start it, and stop complaining.
Here's exactly the stupidity that some here defend:
“He [Gallery] was asking for $8 million a year, and we were willing to pay him in the $2.5 million range,” Raiders executive John Herrera told beat writer Steve Corkran. “His asking price was way too high.”
First off, it's apparent the Raiders chose to make this public as a means to trash Gallery (it's doubtful $8M was an absolute, and may have been fabricated by the Raiders).
Secondly, they had no problem writing mega contracts to Henderson, Routt and Wimbley, and dozens of others in past years.
So why is Gallery being dissed? He's only their most consistent performing OL-man for the last several years, and now he is all but gone.
The Raiders have five other OL free agents, and face the daunting task of a complete OL overhaul.
Is Gallery worth $8M a year? IMO, probably not because of his chronic injury history and the position he plays. Is he worth $5M a year? I would say yes for (1) consistency sake of the OLine (2) he has been our best overall performer on the OLine when healthy.
Quite frankly $2.5M is an insult to a guy like Gallery who has been a loyal Raider soldier, 1st class teammate, and a good overall player. The fact that this "negotiation" was publicized shows a lack of class. It begs the questions:
* Did we shoot our wad by tying up $80M on 5 players?
* Are we clearing the decks of Gallery because of his association and backing of Cable? To make room for Bruce Campbell or Wiz' nephew?
If you look at our OLine and the move to power blocking vice zone blocking, we have some MAJOR holes to fill.
LT - Veldheer (good fit)
LG - Wiz' nephew/B.Campbell ???
C - Satele (ok but need an upgrade)
RG - Carlisle (bad fit; old and more of a ZBS guy) ???
RT - Langston Walker (avg. at best)
You oould easily make the case that we need to fill at least 3 if not 4 positions on the OLine.
When I mentioned earlier that the over-spending on guys like Wimbley, Routt, Henderson has ramifications this is what I'm talking about.
If/When free agency opens up, how much will we have left to spend on upgrading our OLine with external free agents?
Al is getting rid of the Cable backers. If Gallery is asking 8 mill a year, he must be awfully stupid, either that, or someone is lying????
Nnamdi speaking out about the Defense could be why Al doesn't want him, the iron fist has hit the players, some of the players. Some players get coddled like they were his children. If you speak out, Al will turf you and try to slight you on the way out, NICE. Is this how a winning Org works? Vendettas and ego's?
DRAFT
Eli Manning (traded to Giants)[4]) Quarterback Mississippi
2 Oakland Raiders Robert Gallery Offensive Tackle Iowa
3 Arizona Cardinals Larry Fitzgerald Wide receiver Pittsburgh
4 New York Giants Philip Rivers (traded to Chargers[4]) Quarterback NC State
5 Washington Redskins Sean Taylor Free safety Miami (FL)
6 Cleveland Browns (from Detroit[
4]) Kellen Winslow II Tight end Miami (FL)
7 Detroit Lions (from Cleveland[4]) Roy Williams Wide receiver Texas
8 Atlanta Falcons DeAngelo Hall Cornerback Virginia Tech
JONES
Q: Are we clearing the decks of Gallery because of his association and backing of Cable?
A: Absolutely.
The priority of winning only goes so far... something Davis has proven over and over.
When you take an 8-8 team and send your most consistent (and arguably best) position players adrift, what will you end up with?
I understand Davis not wanting to pay Nnamdi $17M a year, but Asomugha and Gallery will be the best free agents at their positions. If the Raiders are lucky, they might get to compete (with 31 other teams) for the rest.
When Seymour came to the Raiders and said he could help build a winning team like he did in NE, he probably never imagined the Raiders would repeatedly shoot themselves in the foot and never establish the kind of foundation that made winning possible in NE.
Freak, this is why this board has gone silent. Because your counterparts have found it increasingly difficult to defend the Raiders' self-defeating behavior.
- the dialogue here was almost strictly football until you brought your own version of hate back to this board.
BULL SHIT!!!...
When was your posting ever strictly FOOTBALL!!!...
And "FrkyRaider" called it right...You are a hater and that's been apparent for a very long time now!!!...You and your shadow!!!...
"CJ"...
Not sure I would want to let Galley go...He may not be the "LT" he was drafted to be but most certainly a very high quality "LG" regardless of being shunned by "PB" voting...
As for the $$$$ no one here knows a thing about that yet...What will our projected cap be and what will be the issues if when the "CBA" is signed a few teams already have very high cap figures...Prolley all it does is benefit the players by pushing the cap even higher...That's why the owners didn't want Al Davis on the board this time around...He's much too generous while "Some" have tried to call him "Cheap"!!!...
Now that was stupid...
PantyRaider...NO Time For Tears!!!/_
NYR- "Freak, this is why this board has gone silent. Because your counterparts have found it increasingly difficult to defend the Raiders' self-defeating behavior."
lmao, get serious!! this board is far from silent. i see the same people complaining about everything under the sun that has Raiders attached to it. it is the quality writers and readers that have fallen off. they grow tired of debating jr high style, you know, "either you agree with this or your an idiot" one of jones favorite ploys. as i said i read every post. i know exactly what you and the other haters have been writing. the "praise" you brought to this board for the improved Raiders was really something to behold (another eye roll). it seems you guys want stuff to complain about so you will actually just out and out jump to the anti-Raider side of almost any argument. lets take the coach for example, did jones support and think highly of cable before he was getting fired? hell no, bashed him every chance he got. sure he was a bit more supportive once we evened the record at 500, but he didn't go all pro-cable till he was a goner. you see it doesn't matter what we talk about you negative nellies will always take that side of things. it's just being a hater. thats what they do. i've come to grips with the fact that to read this site i have to deal with the negative nellies of the Raider world. i'm fine with that. but i will call a hater a hater. sorry if that offends you which it obviously does. oh well, your a hater, i guess it's my job as a positive thinker to offend the likes of you.
panty has been carrying the fight to you guys. way to fight the good fight panty!! we need another positive voice out here. now that will be me!! i will continue to post here periodically, enjoy. i just can't sit back quietly and allow you haters to all sit in a big hater circle and sing songs about Al's ouster!! but go ahead and hate on. but expect to be called on it. btw, how did that billboard work out for the Haters Circle? and did you donate any $ for it? seemed right up your ally.
Freak -
"...it is the quality writers and readers that have fallen off."
LOL, there's no chance of you bringing up the level with "negative nellies." That's rich!
As I said before, you're just here to point fingers and make accusations.
If you want to start a football dialogue, then start it. Don't keep posting your hate.
Tell us all the things the Raiders are doing "right". I think we'd all like to hear.
Do you agree with pushing Gallery out?
Do you agree the Raiders needed to guarantee Wimbley top 5 LB money to retain his services off a season in which he made $650k? That's over 1,600% pay increase.
Do you think Routt deserves elite CB money? And does that mean Asomugha is done?
With the Raiders scrambling to re-sign some of their own FAs at huge pay increases, will they have a chance to compete for other quality FAs?
What do you think of the Raiders having their defensive scheme completely set prior to hiring a DC? What does that mean to you?
If you want football dialogue, then start it. Stop whining and crying about us "negative nellies."
On the spot, NYR! Just read that Wimbley's contract is going to be over 11 mill, one player gets coddled, another (Gallery) gets a boot up his arse and insulted as they tell him, F YOU. When the negatives are so many and are unthinkable acts, it takes away any positive that might have been gained.
What's the use of talking about direction and continuity and focus when the whole thing is being blown up again. There will be big turnover and another wave of different players and coaches come through the revolving doors and what will always be present is......Al, pointing the finger at someone else for failure and saying the "new" team will be great, like the 80's. And there are people who still believe this.
I don't want to talk about What Jason Campbell MAY BE. I don't want to talk about DHB, or how Routt deserves elite money. I want to talk about a team that keeps a TEAM, has solid coaching, a direction. If Al Davis cannot provide that, then I will voice my displeasure, that's what this place is for, no? I'll tell my family, my friends, anyone I meet, that Al Davis has to get out of the way. Instead, he dominates the franchise, literally suffocating it.
Been for this team for 4 decades, have never cheered for any other team in the NFL. Have sat through horrible times, guess what, I'm still here, ain't leavin, wait it out, sooner or later it will turn around, it's the Law of the Universe.
JONES
NYR- "Tell us all the things the Raiders are doing "right". I think we'd all like to hear."
all of em? well i'm not gonna name em all, but i will name a few off the top of my head. that good enuff?
for the past few years our defensive line has been lacking in push to the qb. seeing as how we use the four man line and rely on them for qb pressure we need a good to great d-line, i would say that we made great strides in that area in the recent past. with King Richard and Wimbley, Kelly and Shonasty, i really like where our d-line is headed. it was imperative to get Seymour signed as he is the leader and best player among them. couldn't possibly replace that with the draft pick we gave up. great trade imo. as far as his contract goes, i thought it was a win win. we give no bonus, sign THE leader and probowler of this D and compensate him among the tip top of his position. he's slightly past his prime so you don't go long term but a couple years. nice deal i thought.
how bout the strides the offense took this year? holy crap top 10 scoring offense? did i read that right? i can remember this team not being able to run a 2 minute offense just a few short years ago. couldn't get in and out of the huddle on time. and if they got behind early it was over!! i thought our offense was spectacular last year. the other positive part abut it is the core of it is awfully young, they are going to get better. yeah, we need some new lineman, fine. so what. we'll find some. i like cambell, hope he will see the field some this year. veldeer is a total stud, love this kid. what round was he again?
that leads us to gallery. do i agree with pushing him out? well without answering yet, can you see the negative way this question is asked? push him out? please. he asked too much for what Al thought he was worth. period. all the other stuff after the fact is media blown hype. i was a bit surprised to see the Raiders throw the numbers out there tho. very strange for them. maybe they were trying to avoid the usual backlash to any move they make by giving his asking price. damned if the do damned if they don't. well, i don't have to tell YOU. for all we know the coaches told Al that in the power blocking we're switching to gallery aint worth it. maybe Loper is the guy. maybe we draft someone. we'll fill the spot. would have liked the continuity if the coaches felt he was a fit, but not at that price.
next- "Do you agree the Raiders needed to guarantee Wimbley top 5 LB money to retain his services off a season in which he made $650k? That's over 1,600% pay increase."
whew, tough question. that is quite the pay raise i will agree. what was the alternative tho. let him go to free agency and get in a bidding war for him? don't really like either senerio. it was a pickle, they thought they had the option on his contract, when it got over ruled they had what a day till they had to use or not use the tag. something like that. tough spot. my opinion is that i would have rather used it on miller at 7.2 which would probably be overpaying him too. but that is the way it is if you want to retain these guys. it's league wide not just here. Route? same thing. i think he deserved to be paid as one of the top cb's pure and simply because his numbers show him to be, he knows our system so he's worth more to us than to other teams. but believe me he would have been snatched up if he hit the market. they are snatching up the likes of the chriss carrs and philli buchanons that we let go. route is a top cb in this league. one that gets tested more than any other, he proved his worth. all that said i thought we could have gotten him for a couple less million sure, but what am i gonna do, complain till the cows come home? i'll leave that for others. does paying Route all that money mean that Aso is out? i dunno, depend on the cap no cap situation i'd say. wouldn't surprise me to see him retained for a couple year deal.
will we have enuff left to be active in FA? first off Al is always active. we had some cap issues a couple years ago that hindered some signings, but that wasn't the only problem then, we had fat we needed to cut in order to free up some $. happens on every team. take a look at the waiver wire. so active or not active? again depends on cap-no cap.
defensive scheme and it being chosen for them. i'll try and keep this short.
when you have an owner that was a coach and understands the ins and outs of the game of football, been around it all his life, he tends to form opinions about how he thinks the best ways are to play the game. everyone has their own ideas on what the best way is. some believe in the 3-4 some the 4-3. i don't hear anyone complain that when somebody hires bill parcells that he hires around his own philosophy. thats all it is. he likes that system so he hires someone to come in and run that philosophy. again it's league wide. our guy that does the hiring happens to be a football guy AND the owner, only thing that makes it different.
ok enuff hoop jumping, i'm out.
once again these things are mearly my opinions. stating nothing as fact except that i believe them.
It's not that they let Gallery go, it's how they did it, it isn't necessary. It's the signing of Routt and the non-movement on Nnamdi, the enormous gaffe on Wimbley, the boot up the arse to Cable, who wants to work under an enviroment like the Raiders? It's common sense, no matter how much one will write his take like a Prozac commercial. All signs are showing that Alameda is in turmoil, again. Spin as you will, can't hide the truth.
JONES
See, Freak, you DO have a football opinion.
My take is that the Raiders have unnecessarily wasted millions of dollars they could ill afford to waste, and I see that as bad management.
IMO, no Raider player was worth a franchise tag, even Miller, and especially not Wimbley. Wimbley was on target to receive a huge pay increase, but the Raiders turned it into their own version of the CA lottery.
Comparatively, Miller and Bush were tendered at about $3.6 million each (assuming a new CBA will validate that process), which is about what Wimbley was scheduled to make and what he should have been worth +/-.
Henderson was a castoff from the Jags, and was lucky the Raiders signed him at all last year. He only played in half the Raiders' games as a rotational player, but now he’s about to get starter’s money.
At Routt’s new pay scale, he has been anointed Asomugha’s replacement, who was previously Woodson’s replacement. Is Routt up to filling those shoes? Big ?
According to the media, the Raiders will have about $26 million in dead money, should there be a salary cap as part of a new CBA. Some of that will come from Asomugha and his voided contract (so not resigning him has cost as well).
So for every mega deal the Raiders overspend on a player, there are consequences. At a minimum, each deal represents less buying power they will have for other free agents and under a salary cap (which is sure to exist).
Unless I missed it, you never did tell us what it means to you to have the defensive scheme completely set before hiring a DC.
i did address that. what i'd like to know is how is our situation any different than any other teams GM hiring a coach to run the style of defense he desires? thats what GM's do. our owner happens to be our football savy GM, so he does the same as all the other GMs. its the other owners who aren't football savy, they hire someone who is and they make the football choices according to their opinion on how things should be. for example, "i like the run and shoot offense so i'll hire a guy who has that offense in his resume."
how bout this, what defense do you think is the best to run in the nfl? 4-3, 3-4, 46? yes yes i know a mix of different looks is...everybody has a base defense.
if you have one, next ask yourself if I were the GM and needed to hire someone, would i hire the guy who ran the defense that I think is best? or just hire a coach that is a good coach but runs a defense i don't think is the best?
if you believe strongly in your opinions about football it's pretty simple. you pick the guy that runs what you think is the best.
" how is our situation any different than any other teams GM hiring a coach to run the style of defense he desires? "
You don't know that? The difference is, the Owner/GM IS THE DEFENSIVE COACH. He hires a token stooge to take orders on how to run the scheme. Most teams hire a DC and allow him to coach and do what he thinks is best in talks with the HC. If the GM was to make the schemes and gameplans, he would be the coach, wouldn't he? Hence, Coach Davis. Understand? I see frky is here to run us all through the same circles of stupidity AGAIN. Been there done that, freak. Can we have a new game on here? The same circle of stupidity is very boring.
JONES
Freak is a firm believer, ala Jethro, that formations make scheme. Another circle, come on freak, pick up your game.
JONES
well that didn't take long. it starts with telling me what i believe, next up, telling me how i feel. have at it!!
your right about one thing tho, those circles you keep spining are getting boring.
Personally, I find the Raiders having a defensive scheme set in stone before hiring a DC both typical (for them) and yet alarming to have that finally made public.
That's actually opposite of what many here have argued for years; but of course now they will try to sell that as being "normal."
There's nothing normal about it. A defensive coordinator is just that. A GM is not the coordinator, and neither is the owner, unless his name is Al Davis.
IMO, the insane money spent on Wimbley, Henderson et al, could have been better spent on a top quality DC who brings a new D philosophy to the Raiders.
To say the old one is tired would be a gross understatement.
Again, IMO, the Raiders have neither the coaching nor the personnel to make Davis's ideal defense work, well, ideally.
The last umteen years of spending money and trying to make it work tells us that it doesn't.
And with free agency and financial issues facing the Raiders, they will be lucky to field as talented a D this season as they did last. Therefore, logic suggests the potential to improve would come more from changing the philosophy.
How many years of trying and failing at the same thing does it take? The square peg doesn't fit in the round hole.
P.S. please don't tell me the top DCs and defensive-minded HCs in the league are taking instruction on how to call their defenses from the GM and/or owner... cause that's going nowhere.
Freak -
I understand your point about Davis having a strong opinion on the best defense the team should run.
However, you are really blurring the lines in terms of roles and responsibilities for a football organization.
A DC is and should be fully in charge of the defense in every possible aspect. I don't have any problem with Jackson/Davis selecting a DC with a 4-3 pedigree.
The problem I have is for a DC to be handcuffed by how he runs the D. A DC runs the D not the owner/GM. A DC should be able to incorporate exotic blitz schemes and zone coverage as a vital tool in the tool box.
By force feeding a pre-determined defensive blueprint to any incoming DC, Davis is stripping the DC of valuable tools and in essence neutering him in the process.
Freak is a firm believer, ala Jethro, that formations make scheme.
Perfect!!!...Only the LIAR could be stupid enough to try to define a defensive football scheme in any other way....
Go for it IDIOT!!!...
Define any "DFS" without the use of designated alignments...Prove yourself!!!...Your stupidity is deep!!!...
"CJ"...
A DC should be able to incorporate exotic blitz schemes and zone coverage as a vital tool in the tool box.
Marshal was allowed to do that but failed...His use of the Zone in the "Red Zone" was sick to say the least...Some of his Blitzes worked very well while at other times he put our "D" is horrible situations and we got burned big for it...
Inconsistency was his issue and apparently always has been from what I have been able to uncover about him and that's why I wanted him replaced...He took us to a point of improvement but not over the hump...
You said:
By force feeding a pre-determined defensive blueprint to any incoming DC, Davis is stripping the DC of valuable tools and in essence neutering him in the process.
Well at this point we just don't know any of that yet...We don't know who that "DC" is or if he is already on staff...We don't know if he has already had an effect on things or is completely outside the box...
I read an interesting speculation a few days ago...
Al hired one and Hue hired one who will compete to see who can bring the best plan to the table and he will get the nod...
So Al rehired Chuck Bresnahan while Hue designated Mike Waufle is the word I got...Not sure I believe it but it's an interesting possibility...If so they have both had an opportunity to give their input to the design and designate the personnel they need...
PantyRaider...We Will Understand In Al's Due Time!!!/_
In Other News: Put on your smiles!!..
Bush, Miller get highest tenders
If Bush and Miller received tenders, it’s safe to assume others received them as well.
Miller optimistic he’ll remain a Raider
“It does feel good,” Miller said. “It’d be great to be back in Oakland. I really feel like we’re headed in the right direction with Hue Jackson and the way things are going. We had preliminary discussions (on a contract) before deadline and I’m sure they’ll pick up again once there’s a CBA in place and we get back to business.”
PantyRaider...Key Moves But More Needed!!!/_
Burress plans to return to NFL after June release from prison
With Burress' release date now set for June 6, his agent and lawyer said he's looking to return to football -- and a number of teams are looking at him.
"He's counting the hours," lawyer Peter M. Frankel said. "He's extremely positive."
So how does the NFL lessen the ill effects of the Jets choosing a Bust in the 1st rd...6th overall...
Well after listing the Jets bad draft history they list the Raiders...
http://blogs.nfl.com/2011/03/02/pick-six-biggest-new-york-jets-draft-busts/?module=HP_cp2
http://blogs.nfl.com/2011/03/03/pick-six-raiders-all-time-draft-busts/?module=HP_cp2
It would have been interesting to list all the NFL teams worst but of course they couldn't go there...
PantyRaider...We Always Be #1 At Something!!!/_
We're still posting on the same thread that this revelation was presented after being made public, yet some folks just don't get it.
“Honestly I don’t think that’s the issue right now who the defensive coordinator right now because our system’s our system. We know exactly what we’re going to do. The guys who are there know exactly how we’re going to coach that particular side of the ball." (Hue Jackson)
It's not about two coaches on staff presenting their defensive philosophies for Hue Jackson to review and decide on, it's about Al Davis running the defense.
Do we need to dig out Nnamdi's quote again? The defense is run "one way" regardless of the opponent.
Stop living in denial.
"...our system’s our system. We know exactly what we’re going to do."
That doesn't sound like they're waiting for someone to fill in the blanks.
"The problem I have is for a DC to be handcuffed by how he runs the D. A DC runs the D not the owner/GM."
many people may believe this statement but i am not one of them. but if you think our DC is being handcuffed by telling him we run a 4-3 man for our base d, well thats your opinion.
"“Honestly I don’t think that’s the issue right now who the defensive coordinator right now because our system’s our system. We know exactly what we’re going to do. The guys who are there know exactly how we’re going to coach that particular side of the ball." (Hue Jackson)"
i see this statement as a "well we run a 4-3 man defense, our guys already know what to do in this defense. we don't want to change it and start from ground zero."
it's my opinion that if you have a negative view of things you are constantly looking for something you can condemn Al for. YOU read these thing into these statements. but thats your opinion and you are entitled to it. but i just don't agree with it.
Freak -
Your take on the statement by Hue Jackson is grossly understated. Jackson isn't referring to a simple matter of sticking with a 4-3 defense, he's saying it doesn't matter who the DC is, their defense is already set. There's a huge difference.
Q: How can they know "exactly" how the defense will be played before hiring a coordinator?
A: Al Davis.
Who cares if you agree with it, just shows you will deny the truth because it doesn't fit what you think it should. It's a proven fact but you won't agree with it, like it isn't a fact because you don't agree with it. That's exactly how women think. Maybe you are blitzchick.
JONES
"it's my opinion that if you have a negative view of things you are constantly looking for something you can condemn Al for."
It has nothing to do with opinion, but you will try your damn hardest to make it out like it isn't fact. That's how you and Jethro roll, some people see things for what they are, some people live in a dream state, their own made up reality because they just can't handle facts = YOU. Your opinion doesn't change facts, Hue said it, all the evidence points to it, but still, you reject it as hearsay, impossible to have discussions with those who cannot except facts. So, it turns into the usual stuff from you and Jethro.
JONES
At this point, saying Davis doesn't control the defense is like saying Wimbley won't be overpaid at $11.3 million, which is the current estimated value of his franchise tag.
As ridiculous as it is, we are being asked to believe both these things are true.
I guess like anything else, if some people are exposed to something long enough, they start to believe in it, right or wrong.
The proof of Davis running the Defense goes back decades, the proof of Davis being involved in what happens on the Offense goes back decades, hence Coach Davis.
To say that the Raiders are doing what other teams are doing as far as running the Org, speaks volumes on the depths they will go to change facts into a grey area. They are apologists for the Org, they have no interest in hearing the weaknesses of the Org that hold it back. You can't reason with that, it's impossible.
JONES
ah yes, the ol jones debating strategy, "if you don't agree with me then you are...(this time it's blitzchick)" good one jones, you've really come along way from your jr high days. (eyes rolling again) this strategy was predicted in my earlier post. tried and true eh jones. jeez and you talk about others needing to step up their game.
NYR- "Your take on the statement by Hue Jackson is grossly understated. Jackson isn't referring to a simple matter of sticking with a 4-3 defense, he's saying it doesn't matter who the DC is, their defense is already set. There's a huge difference."
that is your opinion. i accept that it is your opinion, and i have my own. my opinion is that your interpretation of the statement is grossly overstated. which in my opinion is because of your negative bias. you automatically take things with the intent to condemn Al.
NYR= "I guess like anything else, if some people are exposed to something long enough, they start to believe in it, right or wrong."
maybe you should heed some of your own advice.
i never said wimbley wouldn't be overpaid, as a matter of fact i believe to stated i disagreed with the franchise tag. he will be overpaid, but the alternative is we'd lose him, then the "negative nellies" just jump to the other side and complain how inept we are that we can't retain the people we need to implement this particular defense. they retained him, your not happy, i'm not surprised. business as usual.
jones- "The proof of Davis running the Defense goes back decades, the proof of Davis being involved in what happens on the Offense goes back decades, hence Coach Davis"
show me said proof, and if it went back decades, that would include the 3 rings then? and by the way, the term "coach" applies to any person that has coached, it's a term of respect between people of the same trade.
in a reversal of hater BS, years ago he was accused of having too much input into the offense. since gruden tho those arguments lost steam and nobody talks about that anymore like they never said it.(oops, jones just brought it back up, kinda hurts your argument doesn't it?) they just jump to the next one they can think of. these hater trends actually amuse me.
"show me said proof, and if it went back decades, that would include the 3 rings then?"
Do you watch the team play? Look at how the defense played under Ryan, then go back to the 80's and watch video on some games played in the regular season, the defense mirrors itself. Straight up, man to man, beat the guy across from you, safety deep zone. Not much blitzing or stunting, that is plenty of proof. Then you can go by what players and coaches have said over the decades, what Al has said himself. It's only obvious if you HAVE EYES and ears.
As far as the 3 rings....THIRTY YEARS AGO, the game has changed, honey. How many circles are you going to try and reproduce?
JONES
"you automatically take things with the intent to condemn Al."
That's very convenient to say, but simply not true. I roll with the information. I praised Davis for minimizing the Raiders' FA activity last off-season, then again for a tremendous draft. I was on board with Davis moving forward as GM at the end of last season, provided Cable kept his job and we could continue to build off the progress he and Davis appeared to make (little did any of us know that Cable-gate was in full swing).
I have always praised Davis' ability to retain players, although I do tend to criticize when said players are grossly overpaid, like in Wimbley's case (and Henderson).
I am confident both these guys could have been retained for far less. The Raiders could have doubled Wimbley's $3.5M buyback after it was voided and still saved over $4M.
That's not exactly chump change and may have been enough to bring back Gallery, as I believe the $8M quoted by Herrera was a fabrication. Why in 50 years of silence would they go public with that type of information except to harm Gallery in some way? It follows a pattern of vindictive behavior that cannot be denied.
Regarding the defense, it is set, and Hue Jackson said so himself. If Davis wasn’t fully in charge of the D before, he is now, and Jackson is telling the world.
My guess is that you and others are not savvy enough to see a pattern. History is a powerful tool to understanding the present and the future.
Things have a way of repeating themselves unless you can recognize your past failures and avoid making the same mistakes.
Raiders behavior tells us they will continue to do things as they always have, regardless of the consequences.
jones jones jones, thats it. thats your "proof"? lmao. all you have proved is that we play a 4-3 man up d. while i'm glad your able to slueth that out, it doesn't prove your point. you'll have to try harder than that. we all know that we're a 4-3 man team already. and by the way, little blitzing is a known byproduct of the 4-3 man defense. you pressure the qb with the front 4, and the linebackers cover, mostly. doesn't mean you can't blitz, like marshall showed, doesn't mean we can't use zone, like we showed last year, weren't any good at it but we did show it.
so in summary, we are and have been a 4-3 man team, built it on that premise. this is not a new or outdated defense. we are not the only ones to run a 4-3 man defense.
the coaches we have had ran the 4-3 very differently. marshall was pretty aggressive with the blitzing in my opinion. rob ryan had his linebackers 5 yards off the ball!! (still have yet to see that again) breshnahan ran a pretty conservative 4-3. every one of them ran it differently. we will hire a coach to run this 4-3 man defense which the team was built for. i feel it's pretty cut and dry. most teams searching for a new dc pick one thats skilled at the defense they have been built to run. when a team changes its philosophy it makes news. and takes time to shape the team into the new philosophy. we are built for 4-3 man defense and Al Davis thinks it's the best defense to run. what i don't understand is why you are so against it.
jones-"As far as the 3 rings....THIRTY YEARS AGO, the game has changed, honey. How many circles are you going to try and reproduce?"
well did Al run those defenses back then or just now? you can't have it both ways.
and i'm not goin in circles thats just your head spinning from the football talk.
Freak, already been through this crap with your alter ego = jethro. If you want my take on it all, go back and look in the archives. You expect me to go round the circle again? Don't know how many aliases you have or if you just like being a freak, but I ain't playin your silly game, ok?
JONES
My only wish is that our DC would have as much latitude to run the D as has been shown by our HC/OC to run the offense.
Some quick examples in our recent past;
Davis is not a big "west coast" offense proponent but he let Gruden install it and run it.
Davis is not a big "zone blocking" advocate but he let Cable install it and run it.
If you look at our history, there is a very clear pattern of hiring offensive coaches as HC.
Does anyone think this is a coincidence?
If a defensive coach was hired as HC, there would be a conflict for Davis. A HC with strong opinions about the defense would pose a conflict with how Davis wants the D run.
It is the closest thing to a "smoking guy" if you ask me.
Offensive coaches are allowed to implement their philosophies but come hell or high water, the D is Davis' baby.
"CJ"...
Davis is not a big "west coast" offense proponent but he let Gruden install it and run it.
Well he let Mike White install it a run it for 2 seasons before that than 1 season returned to the "VO" under Bugle and right back to the "WCO"...
Offensive coaches are allowed to implement their philosophies but come hell or high water, the D is Davis' baby.
Well than how do you explain the transition to the 3-4 under Madden/Flores and the transition to a Hibred 3-4/4-3 under the "Rat" for 1 1/2 seasons than the eventual return to the 4-3 under Shell I....Than the attempted return to the 3-4 under "SOB" and the improved "D" under "Shell II/"SOB"....Than the heavy dose of blitz -n- Zone coverage we saw in the "RedZone" this season along with the use of the "Monster Big-Nickle" at times...
All from the mind of Al Davis Right!!!...No "DC" ever had any input...
So now why was our "D" in the top 5 under Willie Shaw for 2 seasons but but below the top 10 under Bresnehan a season and 2 later under the same "HC"...Gruden...
Al Davis has his "O"-n-"D" philosophies but allows his coaches to coach if they are productive...
PantyRaider...How Things Get Twisted To Support Personal Beliefs/Agendas!!!/_
Don't post as stupid as JONES who thinks the "D" has always been the same...Open the books and see how the production has varied from "DC" to "DC" threw time...NO reason to be misinformed about anything...
In Other News:
All quiet on Gradkowski front
They may still have interest in Charlie Fye but I'm hoping NOT...
Reportedly Colt Brennen is healed from his car accident and available so I hope we bring him in again...
Go after a Vet...."VY" is my choice for this "O"...
Also reported:
the Raiders issued a second-round tender to long-snapper Jon Condo. Condo played under a second-round tender last season and earned $1.68 million and would make roughly that amount again if restricted free agency holds up under a new CBA.
PantyRaider...Holes Remain But Work Is In Progress!!!/_
Well now the dust has settled...
Chuck Bresnahan named defensive coordinator for Oakland Raiders
So...He was on board for all that has been done so has been in the loop...We have just NOT been informed until the schedule of Al permits...As it always has been...
Now let the tears begin...
Acknowledgment: I didn't get what I wanted...Winston Moss and a "GB" style attack...Tisk-Tisk!!!...Nothing to cry about there...
The last time we had a winning season it was under Chuck as the "DC"...Now why should his return be viewed as a step backwards...It's forward in my perception and I look forward to what he now brings to the table...
Surprise! It’s Bresnahan as DC
The Raiders won three consecutive AFC West titles, including an AFC title, with Bresnahan as defensive coordinator from 2000 through 2002. He was fired along with much of Bill Callahan's staff after a 4-12 season in 2003.
Jackson indicated he'd seen what he needed to see over the past month.
"The fact that I've had the chance to be in defensive meetings with Chuck and watch him lead the defensive staff made it an easy decision to name him our defensive coordinator," Jackson said in a statement. "I am impressed with his passion, attention to detail and energy. This staff gives us the opportunity to have one of the top defenses in the NFL."
So the speculation that I posted was correct after all...Remember...I wasn't my words but something I had read at "S-n-B Pride" which is a great source for intelligent info that eventually comes true...
I Said:
I read an interesting speculation a few days ago...
Al hired one and Hue hired one who will compete to see who can bring the best plan to the table and he will get the nod...
So Al rehired Chuck Bresnahan while Hue designated Mike Waufle is the word I got...Not sure I believe it but it's an interesting possibility...If so they have both had an opportunity to give their input to the design and designate the personnel they need...
PantyRaider...We Will Understand In Al's Due Time!!!/_
"NYR" than followed with his infinite incite posting incorrectly as usual with this CRAP!!!...
If Davis wasn’t fully in charge of the D before, he is now, and Jackson is telling the world.
Ya!!....Jackson is telling the world it was his decision to promote Chuck to "DC"...Now what...You call him a LIAR too!!!...
PantyRaider...Your Stupidly Is Exposed Again -n- Again!!!/_
That last post was ME!!!...
Don't know how my "Joke Name" keeps showing up...
More from Hue on the new "DC"
New coach Hue Jackson said he talked to some people outside the organization about the job, but he stuck with someone he had previously worked with in Cincinnati.
The Raiders have made significant changes on their defensive staff since Jackson replaced Tom Cable as coach in January. Hall of Famer Rod Woodson was brought on to coach the cornerbacks, and Greg Biekert was promoted to linebackers coach.
Woodson and Biekert played for Bresnahan during his first stint as defensive coordinator of the Raiders, from 2000 to 2003. Oakland won the AFC West in his first three seasons and went to the Super Bowl following his third year in 2002.
"This is an incredible opportunity for me to come back to the Raiders and work again where we had so many great years," said Bresnahan, who also was a defensive backs coach in Oakland in 1998 and 1999. "It's so exciting to be reunited with Hue Jackson because of the passion and energy that he brings. I'm also thrilled to be a part of this talented staff, many of whom I've shared previous success with."
Bresnahan's primary task will be to improve a run defense that has been a problem for years in Oakland. The Raiders allowed the fourth-most rushing yards in the NFL last season at 133.6 per game and have the worst run defense in the league since Bresnahan left before the 2004 season. Oakland has allowed 140.4 rushing yards per game over those seasons, with a league-worst 139 touchdowns on the ground.
Oakland did finish second in the league in pass defense and was tied for second with 47 sacks.
But NO doubt "NYR" -n- his STUPID "SideKick" will try to spin some more of their LIES on this one as usual....
PantyRaider...Your Being Exposed!!!/_
There's not many ways to spin this one. Two primary factors are at play:
1) It had to be a coach that was willing to work directly under Davis and acquiesce to his philosophy on D.
2) Davis works within a very limited circle of trust. Options were (and usually are) past Raiders coaches and past Raiders players.
Much of the Raiders success in their last period of AFCW dominance fell squarely on Gruden and Gannon.
Funny how those willing to trash the Gruden days as being insignificant in Raiders’ history are now willing to ride that coattail to substantiate Bresnahan as the new DC.
His resume is not impressive.
He spent the last two years in the UFL.
Prior to that, he was DC for a Bengals team ranked 28th, 30th, and 25th in yards allowed before being fired in 2008. He’s been out of the NFL since.
This is the makings of B&B written all over it... no spin needed.
Question is, how many "joke names" do you have on here? I know you would never come clean because you are playing a "mans game". YOU'RE being exposed, as time goes along, it shows your colors and they are ugly.
Well, we could all see this coming, except for you know who. Who was telling us all that Al would hire Moss and he would come in and implement the G.B. defense? But now, they are kicking their heels and proclaiming that this is a great move because Bresh was the DC during the "glory years" of the west coast, ball control #1 Offense in the league. An Offense that carried the team to west division titles and a AFC title.
Yes, it was still Al's defense but the veterans on that defense made it work, it wasn't Bresh. The veterans ran that team the year they went to the bowl. Bresh was a spectator, trying to smooth over Al and the players, just as Cable had done. So, Bresh maybe able to smooth over some, but he won't have the Vets to make it work, IMO. Al is forming a team and coaching staff of Al Davis ass kissers, it is not a formula for wins.
JONES
Raiders reportedly re-signed Hiram Eugene to a three-year deal worth $8.25M, making it likely he will replace Huff (unless they are just giving away money - which it looks like they might be).
Also, Daniel Loper was signed to a two-year deal worth approximately $4.0M. Loper made $630k last year as a reserve, giving him approximately 215% pay increase.
Can this team really improve by replacing FA starters with overpaid backups?
So far, it looks like Gallery, Huff and Asomugha are done. These are three of the Raiders most professional and consistent players.
From J-Mac:
“In Oakland, the coordinator doesn’t install the system. The system, as Bresnahan knows, dictates to the coordinator.”
Why would anyone doubt this to be anything but the absolute truth?
Several folks here clamor about how Rob Ryan was able to run his 3-4 defense in Oakland. Well, J-Mac reminds us how long Ryan was given that privilege; "exactly one game".
No spin required. Al Davis is the Raiders' defensive coordinator de facto. It should be as obvious as the nose in front of your face; unless of course you don’t believe you have a nose.
http://tinyurl.com/5wau7ez
Been saying it for YEARS, I don't know how anyone who watches this team could think any different? The truth will always show itself and this blog is a great example. This comes as no suprise to those who have their eyes and minds open. Those with dreamy eyes and ears plugged with a few years of wax are speechless. Let this be a lesson to all you socalled "positive" people. It's not about being positive or negative, it's about being CLEAR.
JONES
I don't believe the Raiders have ever been so transparent as they are now.
They have been exposed by Davis publicly revealing his personal wars with previous coaches; by Jackson more or less telling us how the defense is run (i.e., by whom); and by other strange public displays which contradict decades of silence.
Did the cone-of-silence break?
IMO, the cone of silence was a myth, propaganda always spewed from Head Office. Once you recognize the truth, you see right through the propaganda and disinfo. The media is full of crap but Alameda tries to out do even them. Saw a long time ago what Al Davis had become, a bitter human bent on getting revenge. It's what still drives him, the treatment he got from the league when they recognized Lamar Hunt, instead of Al Davis, to head the merger.
Al has never gotten over it, throw in the biased reffing and it has driven Al to what he is today. I don't blame Al Davis for feeling like he does, he should understand though, that WINNING will slap the league better than his tactics of today.
His vendettas has overtaken him and driven him to a place where he can no longer create a winning atmosphere. If Al HIRED someone to run the operation , someone who can bring the wins, it would be the best thing he could do for all of Raider Nation. It would piss off the league and Al could always be remembered for getting the last laugh.
Right now, it is tears that rule the day. It isn't fun watching this, anyone who can say they enjoy what the Raiders are, they must like watching Al Davis and the Nation suffer. Because that is all this is, SUFFERING, watching a LEGEND crumble before our eyes, it isn't pretty.
JONES
This statement from Gallery more or less confirms what Herrera said regarding Gallery's alleged money demands was not accurate.
"My parents always told me to be professional, be classy and tell the truth. What he [Herrera} chose to say is his business, and I really don’t have any comment on what he said. I’ve always told the truth."
Translation: Herrera did not tell the truth.
"Translation: Herrera did not tell the truth."
Translation.....the wheels are falling off. Good to see Boller taking over for Grad, looks like another upgrade and he deserves the raise, I mean, look at what he did last year. Ugene? Great signing, he deserves the big raise, he really has shown himself to deserve it. Satele, is just me, does his head bobbing really confuse the other team? It's good that he shows the other team when the snap is. He deserves a raise, he doesn't get pushed around at all.
Raiders will probably end up with a top 5 payroll with bottom 5 talent.
JONES
Gallery --> Loper
Huff --> E. Hiram
Asomugha --> Routt
I don't know if we will sign any significant external free agents or draft any impact rookies BUT ...
If Loper, Hiram, Routt start (Routt as #1 vice #2 CB), these are all serious downgrades in talent.
I'm sure I sound like a broken record BUT how you spend on payroll directly impacts the choices, consequences, and ultimately, how the 53 man roster is constructed.
When you vastly over-spend (200% to 1000+% raises) on a few players, it handcuffs your ability to:
(a) add additional external free agent talent
(b) re-sign some of your top players (see Gallery, Huff, Asomugha).
Keeping the status quo of having the vast majority of players/starters from 2010 return from 2011 is one thing.
Subtracting or downgrading from that nucleus is another entire different proposition.
The only "upgrades" that I see on the horizon are:
(1) the growth and development of existing players (ie. Veldheer, Shaunnessey, Houston, McClain, Ford)
(2) the return of players injured throughout most of or part of 2010 (ie. Henderson, Shillens)
(3) and hopefully a few impact rookies (ie. drafting Ski's newphew in the 2nd round).
If the overall talent level is improved, the Raiders will need to be banking on significant improvements in key players, improved systems, play-calling, coaching, and across the board improvement in performance and execution.
If the overall talent level is improved, the Raiders will need to be banking on significant improvements in key players, improved systems, play-calling, coaching, and across the board improvement in performance and execution.
should read:
If the overall talent level ISN'T improved ...
Maybe Davis sees something we don't, like the players mentioned (Huff, Gallery and Asomugha) were holding us back in terms of talent.
That's a reach, but who knows.
It's also possible that each one of these guys made the Al Davis hit list. We know Gallery did, and Nnamdi has spoken publicly about his displeasure with the "one-way" defense. Huff is more of a mystery.
All three of these guys maintain their professionalism in everything they do or say publicly. Of course, I was dumb enough to believe Davis and Cable were getting along.
What's hard to believe is that the payscale needed to retain these players is really much different than the salaries given to their replacements and/or other players like Wimbley and Henderson.
At the end of the day, the same (or more) money is being spent on the same team, less a few key starters.
I think it has become clear that Al is putting his faith in the "up and comers" instead of trying to keep the team together. The team makes big steps last year and Al breaks it down, makes no sense.
Gallery, Nnamdi, Huff, Grad = gone. Keeps Satele, Routt, Ugene, Loper, Boller. Gives an aging Seymour peak money and gives an avg LB Wimbley, elite money. The Org totally trashes it's ex HC AGAIN and trashes an OL, basically lying that he wanted outrageous money. They better get an O-line going or else Campbell won't last long and the season will be toast. And, if the Raiders return to the Art Shell style power football on the O-line, it will be ugly. It's back to preKiffin football in Oakland, it will bring back great memories of the Kerry Collins/Aaron Brooks era, I'm on record right now.
JONES
It just got ugly. The NFL owners and players are going to court. This thing could get stretched out for months.
It looks like, when a new CBA is finally in place, there will be a rookie salary scale/cap.
This should save the Raiders a good deal of money.
Losing Huff, an average player, is not the end of the world.
Not resigning Gallery, a guard who wants 8 mil, is good business sense.
Raiders will get a compensation pick if Nnamdi leaves. Most likely last pick of 1st round.
In a perfect world, Raiders can keep everybody. But in real world, choices must be made.
Lets see what Raiders look like when all the chips have fallen.
Raider00 -
IMO, Huff is the Raiders best FS since Rod Woodson. He came on last year when he was allowed to play closer to the LOS... something the FS seldom gets to do on the Raiders.
Gallery practically stated he never gave the Raiders an ultimatum for $8M (read between the lines of Gallery’s quote to J-Mac). That was a fabrication by Herrera to spite Gallery.
Asomugha would be a unrestricted FA. The highest compensation the Raiders could likely obtain would be a late 3rd round draft pick. No way they would get a 1st round pick.
IMO, the Raiders have not demonstrated good business sense by grossly overpaying players just to retain them. Looks more like desparation to me.
Why not throw some money at a decent DC?
I would bet if you added the salaries of Jackson, Saunders and Bresnahan together you'd still be below the average salary for an NFL HC.
Meanwhile, Wimbley gets the pay of 10 good LBs.
The Raiders would be far better served to invest their money more wisely in coaches (and a new GM).
Oh boy....So instead of Huff, you want Ugene? Instead of Nnamdi, you get Routt at nearly the same price? If Al would of used his money wisely, he could have both Nnamdi and Routt and probably Huff. Instead he overpaid Wimbley, Seymour, Routt, Ugene, Henderson. Gallery wasn't asking 8 million, man, some people will believe anything. Ugene is better than Huff? Really?
Look at the symptoms and it will tell you the story. Big signings for fringe players and the casting off of your best players? No biggie? Really? Gallery was the best O-lineman, Huff was the best safety on the Raiders, Nnamdi one of the best corners in the league...frittered away for nothing, but, it's no big deal. Assets gone for nothing and replaced with fringe players....yikes.
JONES
"In a perfect world, Raiders can keep everybody. But in real world, choices must be made." - Raider 00
EXACTLY!
Choices are made on how $ is spent to construct your 53 man roster.
Choices are made on who to re-sign and at what cost ... who to cut loose ... and how much you have to spend or will spend on external free agents.
How much $ is spent to attract the best coaches should be thrown into the discussion too.
Raider00...
Thanks for making sense...As to the rest why would I even comment???
"CJ"...
As usual you see only what your allowed to see at this time...Both Nnamdi -n- the Raiders have voiced interest in staying together...
As for Gallery you didn't like him anyway and posted he was a bust...Loper played very well and I'm glad we kept him...
Huff you also bashed so why all the turmoil mow...He was improving but again we just don't know yet...
PantyRaider..As I Told Ya When The Dust Settles We Will Know..."DC" Is Now Clear!!!/_
“In Oakland, the coordinator doesn’t install the system. The system, as Bresnahan knows, dictates to the coordinator.”
What's the "System" you moron!!!..
Every team has a "System" to some extent and hire a "DC" to run it...
League plans to lock out players, whose union decertified
WASHINGTON -- NFL labor talks broke down Friday, just hours before the collective bargaining agreement was set to expire, as the union rejected a proposal from the league, then decertified, and 10 players, including MVP quarterbacks Tom Brady and Peyton Manning, sued the owners in federal court.
In response, the NFL planned to impose a lockout of players, starting at midnight ET, after the CBA officially expired, two team sources told NFL Network insider Michael Lombardi. No official announcement of a lockout was made.
The players went to court to request an injunction to block such a move by the league.
Well...Until this dust settles everything else is just mute!!!...
No other business pays it's employees 60% of the gross revenue...And they want to walk away from an offer to go to work...
FUCK'em!!!...
I for one hope the owners stick it to the bastards and the union!!!
PantyRaider...On Record As Pissed At The Players!!!/_
Officially what you don't understand:
Raiders an Evolving Defense
Using all forms of defense, these powerful, determined, intimidating football teams contributed to the Decades of Dominance, during which the Raiders have won an AFL Championship, four American Football Conference Championships, three World Championships of Professional Football, participated in five Super Bowls, played in 14 Championship Games, won or tied for 17 Division Championships, had 21 playoff seasons, finished 34 seasons at .500 or better and played in 40 postseason games.
http://www.raiders.com/news/article-1/Raiders-an-Evolving-Defense/976e0e85-7da8-4c90-a489-e0ba8f6539fb
PantyRaider...Get Educated And stop Being Idiots!!!/_
“In Oakland, the coordinator doesn’t install the system. The system, as Bresnahan knows, dictates to the coordinator.”
I thought it was obvious that statement implies the Raiders are the exception, not the rule.
As pointed out numerous times, there's a difference between having tendencies of a 3-4 or 4-3 defense, e.g., personnel, vs dictating the scheme.
Al Davis is still running the defense, perhaps more than ever now that he's hired a DC from the bottom of the coaching pool.
"Using all forms of defense,"
Isn't odd, the timing of this statement after hiring a DC that is an obvious yesman to Al's defense. A defense that is primarily man on man, safety deep, beat the man vs you. 4 man rush with little blitzing and stunting. The propaganda, it's very transparent, only a fool would use that as his "proof". Sorry "agent orange", propaganda does not count as proof, try again, Jethro.
JONES
Whatever intention Davis might have had to trade into the first round probably was squashed by the lockout.
The trade value of a first round pick is too valuable to simply trade later round picks. It would cost the Raiders their entire draft to get into the middle of the first round.
Of course, Davis could trade future picks, but that's expensive too when you consider the time-value of draft picks.
It's ironic, however, that the Raiders--after signing huge guaranteed contracts for rookies at the top of their draft classes for so many years--won't have a first round pick for the first time since trading for Randy Moss, and it will happen in a year that might have a rookie salary cap.
vs dictating the scheme.
Hay Stupid!!...
3-4 or 4-3 is the damn "Scheme"...
This was total stupidity:
there's a difference between having tendencies of a 3-4 or 4-3 defense,
That is the damn "Scheme"...
PantyRaider or AgentOrange or whatever this damn site wants to post me as now!!!!/_
Report: 2011 rules could be same as 2010
The Washington Post is reporting that if the NFL is forced to open its doors through the court system, the playing field would be the same as they were last season.
No salary cap and restricted free agency for four- and five-year veterans with non-guaranteed contracts and tender levels which vary according to the player’s perceived importance on the team.
So that makes it very easy on the Raiders who can keep who ever they desire...Only Nnamdi -n- Gallery are beyond that limit...Huff is also inside these parameters...
We get a reprieve on signing our vets for another season...So open the damn doors and let the games begin same as last season...
PantyRaider....Under The Umbrella Secure From All The Tears!!!/_
Pure speculation on the part of The Washington Post.
Rules imposed by a court order also could reflect 2009, which is the last season of a salary cap (and the essence of the former CBA).
If that's the case, then the salary cap level would be much lower than the one proposed by either side in the recently failed negotiations, which means the Raiders and their new mega contracts are way over the heads.
Pure speculation on your part too...Anything to paint the Raiders into a devastating corner of your liking...RIGHT!!!...
The whole world does not fit in your depresses society...Get over it...
According to Rotoworld and The Washington Post, if the 2011 season is played it will be uncapped.
Here’s a year-by-year comparison at how the Raiders starting lineup looked in 2010 and how it is projected to look for 2011:
2010 2011
QB – Jason Campbell Jason Campbell
FB – Marcel Reece Marcel Reece
RB – Darren McFadden Darren McFadden
WR –Louis Murphy Louis Murphy
WR –Darrius Heyward-Bey Darrius Heyward-Bey
TE – Zach Miller Zach Miller
LT – Mario Henderson Jared Veldheer
LG – Robert Gallery Daniel Loper
C – Jared Veldheer Samson Satele
RG – Cooper Carlisle Bruce Campbell
RT – Langston Walker Langston Walker
DE – Matt Shaughnessy Matt Shaughnessy
DT — Tommy Kelly Tommy Kelly
DT – Richard Seymour Richard Seymour
DE – Lamarr Houston Lamarr Houston
SLB – Kamerion Wimbley Kamerion Wimbley
MLB – Rolando McClain Rolando McClain
WLB – Quentin Groves Travis Goethel
LCB – Stanford Routt Stanford Routt
SS – Tyvon Branch Tyvon Branch
FS – Michael Huff Hiram Eugene
RCB — Nnamdi Asomugha Chris Johnson
K — Sebastian Janikowski Sebastian Janikowski
P — Shane Lechler Shane Lechler
KR – Jacoby Ford Jacoby Ford
PR – Johnnie Lee Higgins Nick Miller
LS – Jon Condo Jon Condo
Add in the very possible return of Nnamdi -n- Huff and this yr's draft picks...Another "QB" I hope...
PantyRaider...Almost At The Point Of "Just Reload Baby"!!!/_
I guess for some, the cost of bringing back the same team (less a few of its best players) doesn't matter.
Also, the strength of any team is not just in its starters, but in its depth. The Raiders were not a deep roster to begin with, so transitioning backups into starters is likely to leave a few more holes.
No matter, I'm sure money has been spent wisely, and there's plenty more to go around.
And no need to worry about any limitations on spending because The Washington Post says there won't be any....
One thing for sure, we have continuity in coaching on both sides of the ball.
Jackson - offense
Davis - defense
You can take that to the bank.
More pure ignorance of the game of football...You continue to demonstrate your extremely shallow perception of a "DC" and Defensive Football with this total crap....
----------------------------------
One thing for sure, we have continuity in coaching on both sides of the ball.
Jackson - offense
Davis - defense
You can take that to the bank.
----------------------------------
You see lil' foolish one...NO...You don't see and you wont and it's a total waste of time trying to draw you a picture with that now completely warn out crayon of yours...But non the less I will continue to expose your stupidity...Just because it's so damn easy..
The primary/sole responsibility of a "DC" is NOT necessarily to dictate the Defensive "Scheme"...That's usually set forth for him by the "HC"/"GM"/Ownership prior to him being hired...In simple terms they went out a hired a man to run their desired "D" and didn't think to inquire of your permission 1st...
The "DC" has the responsibility to put that/those "Schemes" into practice in a way that's both productive and cooperative with the overall philosophy of the team/organization...
He is apportioned the responsibility of pre-camp preparation as well as installing a complete package during training camp...Than he is expected to call the game in real time and prove himself as well as his squad...Build a report with his players as well as with his bosses..."HC"/"GM"/Ownership and excite the fans...
Now in you infinite stupidity are you trying to post that somehow an 82 year old Mr Davis is now doing all that and not allowing his "DC" to coach his squad???...Especially at a time when reportedly the players rarely even see the man and almost never on the field...
You must think he's "SuperMan" or something...Using his "OHP" or that PS3/XBox game controller under his blanket up in the booth sending down orders in real time...Or don't you remember that the "DC" was on the sidelines all damn season long...
Well maybe he has advanced to the XBox Kenict/PS3 Move and he is going threw all the motions with his old decrepit body and making his players respond...Ya!!..RIGHT!!!...Your so damn believable now aren't you!!!..
Did you post that total crap using your Wii or something!!!
Now I have spent enough time in NY to know it's NOT an inherently ignorant society so I suppose you come by it all on your own...NO neighbors to blame or Walmart patrons on that one...
Do yourself a favor and accept the fact that in the sport of Football a Defensive Scheme is denoted by it's use of formations...Coverage Schemes also are denoted by backfield formations...Thus a 3-4 depicts where the players line up in that Base Scheme as well as Zone depicts how "DB"s line up and react in that base Coverage Scheme...
Same goes for the other side of the ball where Offensive Game Plans are also denoted by Formations that depict what specific players actions typically are...Spread "O"/Double "TE" Set/WishBone/Power Formation/"WCO"/Sid Gilman and such...
Damn now I know that all sailed way over your head!!!...
PantyRaider...Ignorance Is Bliss!!!/_
PS...Last years rookies are now 2nd yr vets and expected to have improved as such...3 yr players are now in their 4th season and expected to have separated themselves from the youngsters or did you think it's all their when they were drafted and had no need for improvement...Take another look at that roster...The depth is there even to the very blind like yourself!!!...
Oh!!!...And by the way...
In all the games where the "Mediot"s have shown Mr Davis discouraged sitting in his booth did they even once catch him wearing that "HeadSet" he uses to call plays down to the "MLB" wearing that miked helmet...Or don't you think that would be a primary agenda of the damn "Mediot"s to catch such a thing on tape to prove it's all Al Davis' fault in support of you "IAAF"ers....Their CLONES!!!...
PantyRaider...The More You Post The More Your Proven A LIAR!!!/_
“Honestly I don’t think that’s the issue right now who the defensive coordinator right now because our system’s our system. We know exactly what we’re going to do. The guys who are there know exactly how we’re going to coach that particular side of the ball." (Hue Jackson)
That statement goes well beyond any reasonable perception of the responsibilities that a typical NFL DC might have, or NOT have.
Davis is so confident in his ability to coach the defense, he has reached into the absolute depths of the coaching talent pool to hire Chuck Bresnahan, who has been out of the NFL for the last couple years and brings his incredibly underwhelming talents back to Oakland (a la Art Shell, Tom Walsh et al). Chuck is the Raiders new "yes man" on defense.
What's really funny is that the Raiders did this whole tribute thing about how they won championships using a 3-4 defense, but they are stuck in a 4-3.
PR -
The only real "upgrades" that you can honestly point to would have to come from the potential growth of the young players and a few players being healthy who were not for most of 2010.
If you want to be honest about the roster, there are at least 3 obvious downgrades in talent and experience when it comes to FS, CB, LG.
It will be ABSOLUTELY critical for the Raiders to make a concerted effort to provide new talent to the OLine by the draft and free agency. As it stands now, we will probably have to lean on B.Campell and Loper as our starting guards.
My biggest concern going into the 2011 season (assuming there is a "normal" season) is our OLine. Moving to a power blocking scheme without the talent, experience, depth, or right fits is a recipe for disaster.
The fulcrum for a continued dynamic offense rests on how proficiently we can reconfigure, re-stock, and get the OLine up to speed.
Davis is so confident in his ability to coach the defense,
WoW!!...Your so blinded by your perpetual view of anything bad that you can't see the apples behind the leaves...No wonder you go hungry in your Al Davis "HateTrip"!!!..
Now what was the context of Hue's statement...
#1...We had not yet named a "DC" but had Chuck already on the staff...
#2...A "Mediot" was pushing for info and a story...
#3...Hue fully knew what he and the Raiders were planning and was not interested in tipping his hand just yet...
#4...Evidently the "DC" job was being evaluated between to possible candidates who both knew very well the Raider way...Chuck and Mike both of whom had been Raider coaches before.....
#5...Hue said:
The guys who are there know exactly how we’re going to coach that particular side of the ball."
Now in your infinite stupidity you perceive that to be Al Davis as "The guys who are there"....
"Guys" would denote more than one...Therefor it's much more logical to suspect that Hue was in fact referring to both Chuck -n- Mike as the "The guys who are there" and their coaching assistants...Like Woodson -n- Biekert who also played under both of these coaches the last time the Raiders were winners...
Or maybe your so confused that you think he was referring to the players...
#6...Hue said:
I don’t think that’s the issue right now who the defensive coordinator right now because our system’s our system.
So from this we ascertain that either of these two "DC" candidates were appealing to Hue...It didn't really matter to him which one surfaced as the "DC" because everyone was already on the same page anyway and understood what they wanted to accomplish...
But you want to perceive this as the "Smoking Gun" that testifies that Mr Davis at the age of 82 is somehow coaching the "D"...Acting as the "DC"...
Well OK...Now explain HOW!!!...
Where is he when the "D" is prepping during Mini Camps/Training Camp -n- during the season...Virtually never on the football field and the players rarely ever see him but he's their "DC"???...Not even in the locker room at halftime...If he was the "Mediot"s would have been all over it...How the hell could he sneak down their with his walker without them seeing it especially at opposing stadiums...He would have to leave well ahead of the half to even be down there in time before the 15 mins is up...
WoW!!!...Now don't you have a twisted perception of reality Mr Pseudo "FFF-GM"...
OK!!...Now how the hell is he calling the game...Real Time...
No HeadSet in the booth...NO "OHP" available...Never been caught red handed with that XBox/PS3 controller or detection of wireless service even at opposing stadiums 8 games per year...And that during a period of "SpyGate" East -n- West but NO one can catch "MrD"...Ya!!...RIGHT!!!...
So just keep holding onto your stupid "SmokingGun" as you continue to stumble around in your "Blinders"...Eventually ya gotta fall off that bridge and be gone from all memory...
PantyRaider...Can You Genuinely Be That Damn Stupid!!!/_
"CJ"...
I agree with this...
It will be ABSOLUTELY critical for the Raiders to make a concerted effort to provide new talent to the OLine by the draft and free agency. As it stands now, we will probably have to lean on B.Campell and Loper as our starting guards.
The fulcrum for a continued dynamic offense rests on how proficiently we can reconfigure, re-stock, and get the OLine up to speed.
I disagree with this...
If you want to be honest about the roster, there are at least 3 obvious downgrades in talent and experience when it comes to FS, CB, LG.
"CB"...Nnamdi may yet resign with the Raiders...
"FS"...While Huff was experienced he also was burned and failed to make tackles...Last season was an improvement but I don't see this loss as all that detrimental to the "D" and he may yet resign anyway...
"LG"...Loper played very well when Galery went down to injury...In fact some think he should have remained instead of Gallery coming back in but Cable had his favorites...Loper also played very well at "RG" but was not allowed to remain there either...
Campbell was held out by Cable for what ever reason...I suspect that to have been spite for Mr Davis and I suspect he will play very well this season and show the talent that got him drafted in the 4th...He was a very good "ST" performer and was noted for making good plays down field...Than he was not played at all for the last few games of the season...He was noted for his athletic ability and speed on "ST"s...I think we can use that on our "OL" and look forward to his development...He is projected as a powerful "Pulling Gard" by some others perspectives...
I fully expect the Raiders to be very active in "FA" once the CBA is resolved...I expect help on the "OL" as well as at "CB" and "OLB"..."QB" too is an issue in my mind...Than the best player available in the draft...
Just for info one report I read said if the Raider lose both Nnamdi and Huff and Gallery to "FA" that we will get compensatory picks as a result and most likely the last pick in the 1st rd plus additional picks at the end of other rds...3 high 1st rd draft picks carry a high value if lost...
PantyRaider...Just Get That Damn "CBA" Finished!!!/_
Well this should really frost "NYR"s ass coming from the replacement writer of his favorite "Mediot" and "GodFather"...
The Raiders are counting upon using an 8-8 season in 2010 as a springboard to the playoffs next season. Hence the reason, they have signed or offered contracts to most of their top players who are prospective free agents.
And, why not? The Raiders rattled off several impressive victories in 2009 and won more games last season than they had since 2002. The thinking goes that, another year’s experience for the younger players, keeping the core of the team intact and the promotion of Hue Jackson to coach will be enough to make the difference.
Your now on the clock for a rebuttal!!!
PantyRaider...Oh!...So Much Fun!!!/_
"StupidMario" just got's to prove himself dumber than dumb...
Oakland Raiders offensive lineman Mario Henderson arrested on concealed firearm charge
Hopefully that's one idiot that is NOT invited back...On and off the field he is just plain dumb!!!...
Officers break Niners fan's arm during Raiders game, Oakland pays
Raymond Castillo filed the federal civil rights lawsuit against Oakland and the Oakland Police Department in October 2009. In his suit, Castillo argued that Officer Bryant Ocampo and possibly others used excessive force that caused his arm to break at the elbow.
Haddad also said it was unfortunate that the city waited to settle until two business days before the trial was scheduled to start because it caused both sides' legal bills to skyrocket. Of the settlement, Castillo will receive $167,500, and Haddad will receive $245,000 in fees and court costs. Alex Katz, spokesman for the city attorney, said the city did not admit liability but recognized that a trial carried risks and settled to limit liability to taxpayers. The city spent $21,000 to hire an outside firm to help with the case.
Now I have been in the middle of one of these ridicules situations up in Olympia back in "03" while still on disability and at 100% for spinal injuries C2 threw C7 -n- L3 threw S1 so although it was a Niner fan I say Kudos to him for standing up but "BS" on the attorneys who walked away with most of the $$$$...
Excessive Force was an understatement...I was Teased in the back 5 times and my knew was kick our from behind and I was kicked in the back to the ground while a 280# "Pig" put his knee on my upper spine and ripped both arms back at the same time...Than they had nothing to charge me with so they said "Obstructing" which was consequently thrown out of court...
Ya!!..I love that damn "Patriot Act" and all those damn "Heroes"...That's why I feel safer living outside USAirSpace and I'm most certainly NOT alone in that...
Goodell outlines owners' offer in letter to players
I will voice my very strong and experienced opinion on this one...Over 30 years -n- 4 Metal Trades Unions...
To the players: Don't trust that Union to have your best interest in view...They are being controlled by the Agents as are you and those Agents as a whole only have their hearts in their own damn pockets...
One-third of game could be devalued if rule change passes
"Smoke Screen" of fear...
That's where the "KO"s were before it was moved back and the game was still good so this argument is stupidity...Only a few teams have elite "K"s who can consistently put the ball deep enough to illuminate a return and mistakes still happen...
What it does do is make it more likely that teams will try On-Side Kicks when down instead of just punting late in the game...That extra 5 yds will put the ball closer to Mid-Field instead of around their own "40" with their backs up against the Goal if they fail to recover the Kick....
I like it...Bring back the old that never should have been altered...Besides!!!...The Raiders will continue to spend $$$ on their "ST" just as before and our overall units have been good....
PantyRaider...NOT Much Happening Yet!!!!/_
NFL Players are down right stupid and gullible while their being misled by the Agents and NFLPA who say's it no longer exists...They De-certified...So what if their leader says he will lower his salary to 0$ until solved...He cut himself out of a freakin job so why should he be paid at all...
Players: Goodell's letter was attempt 'to divide us'
Ya!...If your friend telling you about your spouse cheating is an attempt to divide your marriage than I totally agree...
With the NFLPA decertified, the trade association says it no longer is empowered to collectively bargain, but its lawyers still can seek a settlement with NFL lawyers.
Now here is stupidity at it's best:
other team reps took umbrage with Goodell continuing to refer to them as a "union" in the final sentence of that letter.
Well if your NOT unified under the blanket of one organization than why the hell are you talking for every damn player and worried about divisions in your ranks Ass Holes!!!...You are a fuckin Union and acting like one no matter what that De-Certification said...Acting as one body under old -n- expired "Union" leadership...If NOT...Remove your damn asses from the equation and let someone else step up to settle your mistakes...
Now for the post parted lies:
Kendall said under the league's final proposal, the cap would have been $141 million, with "no upside" for players to share in revenue that exceeded projections, with 90 percent of it guaranteed. The NFLPA's offer would have included a $141 million cap, with the players sharing in revenues above 5.5 percent growth
WoW!...90% guaranteed revenue so walk away...Than say what your proposal would have contained when you never even bothered to make a damn proposal at all as you walked out that door...
Ass-Holes!!!...Your getting paid according to projected revenues NOT actual in their hands $$$$...What happens if the NFL crashes on TV revenues and gate revenues...Would you bastards cut your 90% Guarantees...So why the hell should you benefit if the owners find a way to improve on revenues as the seasons progress...
The team Salary Cap does NOT grow so why should your damn revenue which would count against that cap...You damn IDIOTS!!!...
This was the most likely reality NOT what the NFLPA LIARS are trying to propagate to the players:
"If the union had a problem, the best course of action would have been to make a counter-proposal, continue to discuss the issue, or explain the problem. They were in such a hurry to get out of the room last Friday and file their lawsuit that they never mentioned this so-called 'true-up' issue. The facts are that our proposal was for a fixed sum for both sides for four years with the clubs taking the financial risk that revenue might decrease or not grow as much as we thought.
we made it clear that there WOULD be a 'true-up' beginning in 2015 to reflect revenue growth generated from new stadiums, new television contracts, a possible shift to an 18-game season, and other potential opportunities."
So they end with their final and perhaps real gripe:
how much family members and certain team employees, including the owners themselves, are paid by the clubs in salary each year.
How in the hell does that concern you!!!...Sense when does an employee have the right to know who much his boss is making...Or his family!!!...
PantyRaider...What A Bunch Of total Bitches!!!/_
Meanwhile we don't have a season to look forward to...Fuck the NFLPA!!!...
Projected $141,000 Salary Cap:
An average of $2.66 Mil per 53 man roster # if that stands...Thus a $3 mil salary for a quality Vet is NOT an exuberant salary at all...
How do the Raiders stack up:
#1...We don't have a 1st rd pick to count against our cap this season unless we are awarded one at the end of the 1st rd which would count about as much as a high 2nd rd player...
#2...Our highest payed player is Seymour around $18 Mil and we don't have one of those exuberantly high "QB" salaries to support on the current roster...
#3...Next would be Whimbaly as the "F-Tag" and the new contract of Zack..."JC" was around $8 Mil if my memory is correct...Than the recent 1st rd picks like "D-Mac"/"DHB"/"Death Ro"
#4...NFL minimums will be around $0.6 Mil and count for a good 1/3 of the roster which more than makes up for the few top loaded salaries we currently have....Than the middle of the pack will still be below the $2.66 Mil Average...
#5...The contracts for Routt/Bush/Loper/Satale and other tendered players are projected just above the $2.66 Mil ave at around $3.5 Mil...
#6...We cut the deep salaries of past 1st rd picks like Gallery/Huff but hopefully come to a new agreement to keep Nnamdi...The two other cut salaries more than pay for Nnamdi's new contract???...
Thus by my projections we should have plenty of reserve $$$$ to go after additional Vets this off-season...
"QB"/"ROT"/"OLB"/"DT"/"CB....
Conversely the teams who have waited may find it very difficult to sign their quality players after the Cap has been established and find themselves constrained under that cap...And if we proceed without a cap this season it will obviously be even more expensive to get players signed with the way the Agents -n- NFLPA are acting...
PantyRaider...Al Davis Has His Team In Very Good Shape As Usual!!!!/_
Corrections:
Seymour's Cap value may be closer to $15 Mil not $18 Mil...
LB Kamerion Wimbley will cost us $11.2 Mil if no contract is structured...
CB Stanford Routt will have a cap value around $10 Mil...
"D-Mac" $10 Mil...
Rolando McClain $8 Mil
"DHB" $8 Mil Base + Incentives
"QB" Jason Campbell $4.5 Mil...
John Henderson about $4 Mil...
Zack Miller $3.2 Mil
Eugene $2 Mil
Loper $1.9 Mil
Kyle Boller $1.2 Mil
Michael Bennett $0.86 Mil
Roughly $70 Mil in 13 of our top players...Less than a $5.4 Mil ave for these starters and roughly 1/2 our starting roster...Most of the remaining starters will have a cap value far below this...Maybe 1/2...So that would project the Cap value for our starters to be around $100 Mil with some $40 Mil remaining for the other 30 players on our roster...An ave of over $1.3 Mil per player with a NFL Min Salary of around $0.6 Mil...
But "NYR" wants to paint us in despair!!!...Go Figure!!!...
PantyRaider...So Much To Fear So Early!!!!/_
CBA "Propaganda Wars"...
The most obvious thing that jumps out at me is the two sides to any coin…
#1…In the Players demands for a larger share of the Owner’s revenue is there any attempt to share their personally arrived revenues with their teams…Such as their “Nike” contracts…Are they willing to share some 60% of that gross $$$ with their team and fellow players when such revenue is directly tied to who they worked for…
I think NOT!!!…
#2…We have seen almost league wide a problem this past season selling out NFL games and lifting the “Black-Out”s…Was that real or just an illusion…Were these players willing to adjust their $$$ accordingly because their failed played didn’t get their teams into “PO” contention and result in sell-outs…
It’s all the "HC"s fault RIGHT!!!…
#3…If NFL revenues grow at 8% over the next four years (consistent with Moody’s projections)
While the cost grow at 10-15%…Are these players willing to adjust down yr by yr if the cost growth %‘s out weighs the revenue growth %’s….
NOT a chance!!!…
So here is my proposed solution but it will never happen:
#1…Give the NFL it’s 18 game season with 2 less meaningless preseason games that produce very little extra revenue…
#2…Give the teams an expanded roster so that players who never get the opportunity to develop can eventually show who they could be and "ST"s can be made up of these extra players taking some potential risk away from the starters…
#3….Make the mandatory “FA” period a minimum of 5 seasons so teams have an opportunity to reap the full benefits of their investments…Than a one yr “RFA” period to follow prior to becoming "URFA"s and free to solicit with any team…Thus any 7 yr vet is free to sign anywhere he is wanted…NO "FT"s…
#4…Give the Players the $$$$ that they are fighting for but with distinct stipulations as follows:
A….They will earn it and any misconduct will result in them paying $$$ back to their respective teams…
B…NO Hold-Outs will be tolerated while under contract to play…This conduct will result in NFL sanctions regardless of how valuable the player is to his team and he will be sat and fined and have to be reinstated by the league to come back….
C….Any and all $$$ derived by the Players as representatives of the NFL or their teams will be Taxed/Shared with teammates threw their respective teams at some disclosed % rate…
D…Agents will be held responsible for the conduct of their players and a % of their $$$ will be held in escrow until completion of the contract or release there of…
Fat Chance!!…The Players and their Agents want want want but are unwilling to concede anything of value to their Teams or the fans…
PantyRaider....No Loyalty Anymore To Anything But The Almighty $$$$!!!/_
Isn't it funny how, as soon as Raiders have a great return threat, Jacoby Ford. NFL is interested in stopping returns ?
NFL, usually always looking to add offense, and points, not eliminate them, says it is a safety issue.
This is complete bull.
By forcing most drives to start at 20, instead of beyond. NFL is forcing teams to drive further up field to score.
So by adding plays to each drive, NfL is acually increasing risk of injury to players.
And it makes me think twice about what league is saying regarding this labor dispute.
If they can pull this fast one with the kickoff rule change, you just cannot trust these guys.
Raider00...
I understand where your coming from but for once I agree with a rule change simply because it reverses the rule that changed things in the 1st place...
"KO"s from the 35 give more opportunities for "SeaBass" to put it out of the End Zone thus crippling anyone else return game while most teams don't have "K"s who can consistently accomplish that so we still have opportunities to return "K"s-n-"P"s...
As for the Union/Owners Debate there is a very good on-going discourse you may be interested in joining here...
http://www.silverandblackpride.com/2011/3/22/2066972/the-nfl-players-union-is-making-a-mockery-of-unions
PantyRaider...Game Of Words!!!!/_
The rule change is BAD for the game in terms of the fans.
PR - You can't tell me that a "touch-back" is more exciting than a KR taking it out for a spin.
Personally, I think this is a double whammy against the Raiders.
#1 SeaBass has a strong leg. He is typically in the top 5, year after year in terms of touch backs kicking from the 30. This rule gives the kickers with weaker leg strength a 5 yard handicap.
#2 Jacoby Ford will have fewer opportunities to use his god given talents. How is that a good thing?
As far as the owner/player debate ...
In a league with growing popularity and revenues, my opinion is that the owners and players have equal culpability and responsibilities to figure out a way to divy up a $9B+ pie in such a way that it truly is partnership between the owners, players, and fans.
Nice comments from Routt...Proud to be a Raider...
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/25657/five-questions-with-stanford-routt
Also positive billing for our Owner..
The alleged gag order during mediated collective bargaining was a joke. DeMaurce Smith, Jeff Pash and Roger Goodell could hardly wait to get behind a microphone to disparage the other side, and there was no shortage of leakers for ambitious reporters such as Mike Silver and Jim Trotter.
There hasn’t been a peep out of Oakland. Davis, relegated to the background in part because he helped push forward the 2006 agreement which is the root cause of all the disagreement about how best to divide $9 billion, has had nothing to say.
Both sides would do well to follow his lead, because in this case, Davis is right.
Nobody cares.
PantyRaider...I Continue To Care As Always!!!!/_
"CJ"...
Exciting yes on that I'll agree but it was good back when to me and I never liked that rule change to begin with so now am quite happy to re-establish what was and never should have been changed...
As far as our "K" goes his job just got easier and so did our "ST"s who avoiding mistakes should never have to give up an inch past the 20 in a season...And the likelihood is that it potentially gives us better opportunities for the On-Side "K" if we are down and restricted by time...
Add to that that perhaps we elect to kick it high and deep so the Cover Teams are down field and have more opportunities for the Take-Away...It may result in more "TO" opportunities...
To hear Routt talk it's all good and nothing bad...He says Ford will still get his opportunities from just a little deeper in the "EZ"...
PantyRaider..Any Coin Has Both (+)s -n- (-)s Attached!!!!/_
PR - I'm sure Ford will get some opportunities to go for a return but it will definitely be less. The rule change is being pitched for safety reasons but that is nothing more than spin. Frankly, I'm shocked that the league would want to diminish one of the more exciting elements to football.
Parcells formally departs Dolphins' front office, takes TV role
'Boys also reportedly contacted players during 'dead' period
The Cowboys are among the five teams that the NFL has either fined or told is under investigation for violating offseason rules prohibiting contact with players before team activities are allowed,
the San Francisco 49ers and Cleveland Browns also are believed to have violated the rule.
These teams are the same ones who typically are involved in underhanded dealings…Eddie n Policy were bother doing shit while with “SF”-n-“Clev”….
Who could possibly be surprised by JONES!!!…
Now this says it all as to the NFLPA’s attitude…
“The faster we can get back to mediation, the faster we will get an agreement,” Goodell said. “We made a lot of progress in mediation. The 17 days we were there forced us all to consider our positions, find the common ground, negotiate and come up with solutions for the issues that we’ve all addressed that are important to the game, important to the players and important to the clubs. I’m hopeful that we’ll get back there and resume them.”
But Harrison noted the optimism by the players — current and former — about prospects for victory in court.
PantyRaider...When Will It Ever End!!!!/_
7th rd #40/240th pick in draft
Yup!!...That's what we got's so far as compensation picks but if we lose Nnamdi/Galery/Ford the list should grow...
Hopefully we resign Nnamdi and get picks for the others...
The Panthers got 3 picks for loosing Peppers a top draft choice...3rd rd and later...33rd @ #97 in the draft...
Cleveland fan files lawsuit vs. NFL, Browns over lockout
CLEVELAND -- A Browns fan sued the NFL and its teams over the player lockout, claiming it violated his contract to buy tickets through his personal seat license.
The lawsuit asked for damages of more than $25,000 from the Browns on both breach of contract and bad faith counts and more than $25,000 from the league and its teams for alleged contract interference.
The lawsuit claims the NFL and its teams have "conspired with the Browns and one another to lock out the players, without justification, resulting in the Browns' breach of the PSL agreement."
Now that's something we should all get behind...I'm down with that!!!...But I don't have a PLS or know if they still exist in "OakTown"...
Ex-Raiders center Robbins sentenced to five years in prison
WoW!...When it melts down it doesn't get straight...Pick your big dumb ass up and get a grip!!!...
“I’m happy to have a resolution,” Robbins told a reporter. “It’s kind of a relief to be honest with you.”
Well maybe the time will help him get straight but the inside influence could be devastating...
NFL wants its players tested for human growth hormone
Ha! Ha!...I'm "60" and have been on that juice religiously for the past 10 1/2 seasons...Sense Oct 1990...And I'm here to tell ya that shit works but it needs to be done with exercise and the components that enhance it properly...And dammit it's suppose to be for us who are at an advanced age NOT for you kids...
The simple fact is it works because if Not it wouldn't be a problem with the youth...Not just athletes either...Hell one site I shopped on already got shut down because their the ones who sold to some NFL Gangster Player who failed his piss test and was under investigation for being a supplier...Dallas I think...
I Squirt what I buy in my own damn mouth...NOT for sale!!!...
PantyRaider...Juiced -n- Happy!!!/_
i hate reading articles from this "football news now".
http://www.footballnewsnow.com/2011/jackson-looking-to-give-raiders-a-retro-look/
what about the HOF guys we had coaching the offensive line during the shell 2 era: shell, slater and i forget whoever else. it was a disaster!
jackson should be looking for "coaches" and not "greats" or HOF's to actually know how to COACH and TEACH.
i hope this current collection of raider greats and HOF's doesn't bite us in the ass like it did then.
Scorpio...
Don't think I would worry too much about it this time around...You'd think it difficult to find another group of "HOF" players who can't communicate the way the "Bread-n-Breakfast Club" failed...
This time only one is on the "OL" as an assistant...The rest are on "D" with the returning "DL" coach who sparked some nice activity last season...Add to that the returning "DC" who worked with these players as their "DC" the last time the Raiders were winners and I think it's a great trend...
Prof is in the pudding but I think time will tell a sweet story this time around...
PantyRaider...If We Have A Season!!!/_
With the lockout, pending litigation, and uncertainty of the 2011 season, I find myself (as a fan) losing interest. Normally, I would be getting more excited about the upcoming draft, free agency, and camp. Instead of avidly following the league this off-season, I've got the news on mute. The 12 month cycle of following the league has been broken which is a shame.
"CJ"...
Understood and I will be in the same boat very shortly while away from the net even during the Draft which I have not missed in way too many seasons to remember when...It just sorta doesn't matter...I would rather just enjoy my escape in the "OutBack" of Cambo near the "VN" border on my new land working up a new hut while NOT very concerned about what's happening with all the big $$$ folks who don't want to work and cry a pool of tears like we should all listen...
Here is a post that really puts it all in perspective and calls for a "Fan Union" to give us a freakin vote and voice in the sport that we finance with what little $$$$ we have left....
http://www.silverandblackpride.com/2011/3/29/2079425/nfl-lockout-the-needs-of-the-fan-union
Pass on the idea...This is the type of Grass Roots movement that we need to see happen...And I don't care what fans I stand side by side with...Hell!!...I will stand shoulder to shoulder with a damn "MuleHead" to get this situation under control...
PantyRaider...Time For Action NOT Tears!!!/_
Please Sign and pass around...
http://www.petitionbuzz.com/petitions/nflsettlenow
Show the NFL -n- NFLPA and the Agents our disgust at how they act...
PantyRaider...Time To Gain Force In #'s!!!!/_
I'm with you, Calico Jack. It's taken some serious wind out of the offseason sails.
The NFL has become self-indulgent and seems to be taking its success for granted.
What about these folks holding these expensive PSL licenses for the privilege of buying tickets? How must they feel right now, knowing that they might be watching replacement players?
All this posturing, with Goodell lowering his salary to $1, etc, is nonsense.
I think fans should stop consuming the NFL until it earns back its status as a FOOTBALL league. No gear on NFL.com, no high ratings for the draft broadcast, no ticket purchases, etc.
Since they seem mainly concerned about the pocketbook, that's the best place to hit them.
I know this is way too simplified, but doesn't setting a salary cap (which both sides agree should be higher than 2009) and allowing market forces to set individual player worth kind of solve the distribution of income?
I think the owners agreed to up the pension fund for retired players, and I believe both sides agree that a rookie wage scale is in order (at least in the first round), which immediately makes more money available for vet players.
What's the freakin problem?
At this point, both sides appear far too greedy.
RT -
The NFL is playing with fire when it comes to the nature of fans and the popularity of the league.
It is only human nature for a true fan to be completely turned off and disengaged with what is going on. This is especially true with the current national economic climate (layoffs, bare bottom housing market) and real world issues (disasters, wars, etc.)
The majority of fans don't give a rats a$$ about how the owners and players are going to divvy up a $9B+ pie.
One of the reasons the NFL enjoyed such unprecedented popularity was because the league sculpted a 12 month NFL news cycle:
Sept-Dec -> Regular season games
Jan-Feb -> Playoffs & SB
March -> combine
April -> draft & free agency
May-July -> OTAs, mini-camp, camp
Aug-Sept - pre-season
And the cycle would begin again.
Now, the cycle of news and interest is completely broken.
Everything is on "pause" until they put humpty dumpty back together. If the owners and league aren't careful with understanding how petty, selfish, misguided, and ignorant they are about the game, the fans, and the cultural context the NFL has in many people's lives, it will be taking a BIG step back.
"RT"-n-"CJ"...
I think we all agree so now what can you and I do about it...That's the real question facing all the Fans right now...
Actions speak loudly while words just seem to evaporate in space...That's why I signed that petition and passed it around...It's got to start somewhere and until they understand the adverse effect this has on us and see our determination NOT to accept this crap they will continue to develop new ways to screw us...
Time for action and to put it on the line...I called for something to be done months ago before this ever developed and I applaud the few who are standing up like that PSL owner in the "DawgPound" who filed his law suit...
Time to cross divisional lines and band together as Fans regardless of who our team is...A "Fan Union" of some sort is imperative at this point and I don't care who organizes it as long as we get it done and band together for the common good of all sports fans...Thus the site I posted was from a "Squaws" site and I signed it right along with them...I was #101 on that petition and I don't know how well it's progressing but dammit something needs to be done and done now...
PantyRaider...Standing By "MrD" But NOT Supporting This Product In Any Way!!!/_
Funny how some folks can accept (even embrace) years of Raiders' mismanagement, but a couple months of misguided activity by the NFL and the Players Union should be our call to action. LOL!
Hay Dumb Ass!!!...
Did you notice the work stoppage again...How damn many times does this need to happen before an idiot like you thinks something should be done about it...
Go cry your "Circle-0-Tears" on your pillow in private...No one needs to listen to /read your stupid crying crap!!!
PantyRaider...Only A Complete Dumb Ass Would Have Made A Comeback Like That!!!/_
PR -
It is your choice and right to sign a petition.
Your question was "what can we do about it?"
My preference is to to move on until things get settled.
As a life-long NFL/Raider fan, I'm not happy about the lockout. I am angry and disappointed.
I refuse to "take action" or lose any sleep over it because at the end of the day, following the NFL and the Raiders is only entertainment.
If and when the league puts it's house in order and the games resume, I will make an informed, personal choice on how I (a) spend my $ (b) how I spend my time (c) and ultimately, how vested I am in the product.
Following the Raiders has been a HUGE part of my life. I'm looking at this as a break as an opportunity. It is an opportunity to spend more time on other hobbies and interests.
"CJ"...
Well your correct that there are never enough free days to accomplish all the things that interest a man and I'm doing likewise including missing the NFL Draft for the 1st time in I don't remember how long...But I'm a little more than just slightly put out by this...It's a major part of life and NOT just a passing hobby to waste my time...
Few things are worth fighting for...The Raiders happen to be around #3 on that short list after Family and Friends but before anything political...
PantyRaider...Just My Personal Perspective!!!/_
not sure if any of you have sen this but what the HELL is wrong with our players????
http://www.insidebayarea.com/sports/ci_17765616
Scorpio...
The dumb ass had Viagra...Now why the hell does a young dude in good physical health need something like Viagra...Can't be suffering as a "Lame Dick" already can he???..
Hell I'm 60 and have never needed that crap...Why the hell do young guys use the crap...Unless he was selling it or something...How damn much could you make dealing that as a drug???...
Is Viagra an NFL banned substance now???..Does it do something I don't know about that enhances athleticism apart from fucken yourself to death??...
Speculation: The players have noting to do now with the CBA crap so get in trouble with all their free time...Doesn't sound to me like these guys are staying in shape in prep for the up coming season...
PantyRaider...Virtually NOT Well Informed!!!/_
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