Postgame (Non) Take
Okay, I didn't see the game. Wish I had, but I was on the road, and haven't yet had the chance to view my recording. But I've read the reports, and what a bittersweet win it was.
On the one hand, it was a fate-driven victory for Al Davis and the Raider Nation, one that put the Raiders squarely in the playoff hunt. On the other hand, Shane Lechler can't be our full-time QB, can he?
We saw this coming, didn't we? Here's what I said just a few months ago:
"Another elephant in the room now that the lockout has been lifted is our lack at depth at the most important position in the game: quarterback. It's Jason Campbell, and then a drop off the cliff. And there are some who would argue that Campbell himself isn't that far from the cliff."
AND: "Replacing Bruce Gradkowski (whom some would argue was our best quarterback in years) with Trent Edward as our backup QB is a step backwards."
AND: "I'm not particularly sold on Vince Young, but I will say that if the Raiders don't do anything about the weak depth chart at QB, it's going to bite us in the ass in 2011. Mark my words. I can see it from a mile away. Can the Raiders?"
Whom would you rather have at QB next Sunday: Gradkowski, Boller, Pryor or...My vote is for Gradkowski. So why is he backing up a rookie in Cincy instead of backing up Jason Campbell in Oakland?
I hope I was wrong about our (lack of) QB depth biting us in the ass. The Raiders are poised to make a significant step to the next level. I guess it's time for Kyle Boller to make it happen.
Consider me cautiously optimistic.
On the one hand, it was a fate-driven victory for Al Davis and the Raider Nation, one that put the Raiders squarely in the playoff hunt. On the other hand, Shane Lechler can't be our full-time QB, can he?
We saw this coming, didn't we? Here's what I said just a few months ago:
"Another elephant in the room now that the lockout has been lifted is our lack at depth at the most important position in the game: quarterback. It's Jason Campbell, and then a drop off the cliff. And there are some who would argue that Campbell himself isn't that far from the cliff."
AND: "Replacing Bruce Gradkowski (whom some would argue was our best quarterback in years) with Trent Edward as our backup QB is a step backwards."
AND: "I'm not particularly sold on Vince Young, but I will say that if the Raiders don't do anything about the weak depth chart at QB, it's going to bite us in the ass in 2011. Mark my words. I can see it from a mile away. Can the Raiders?"
Whom would you rather have at QB next Sunday: Gradkowski, Boller, Pryor or...My vote is for Gradkowski. So why is he backing up a rookie in Cincy instead of backing up Jason Campbell in Oakland?
I hope I was wrong about our (lack of) QB depth biting us in the ass. The Raiders are poised to make a significant step to the next level. I guess it's time for Kyle Boller to make it happen.
Consider me cautiously optimistic.
posted by Raider Take at 9:15 PM
72 Comments:
favre - PLEASE!
i KNOW he's 42. but dangit! this guy has swagger, he has leadership. he still has that arm AND he has two things all those names mentioned don't have - a superbowl ring and a pass to the hall of fame!
sure he might have an attitude but if the vets on this team can't straighten him out who will?
FAVRE!
one more shot for brett!
The other elephant in the room is that BECAUSE of the signing of Pryor and his 5 game suspension, we didn't carry an additional veteran QB on the roster. We went with 2 QBs (Campbell and Boller) and prayed (unanswered) that Campbell could make it through a 16 game season in 1 piece.
Moving forward, I trust that Hue will be able to creatively game plan to give the Raiders a competitive chance in each remaining game. He might need to take a few more chances (trick plays, defensive blitzes, etc.) to find a way to win.
The reality is that the coaching staff and 53 man roster will need to adjust and compensate to allow Boller to be a game managing QB.
Building early leads, using the rushing attack, screens, and safety valve TE, being more opportunistic on D, to get us to the finishing line is a tall task.
In the back of my mind, I fully realize the deck is stacked against us BUT I really do admire the character of this team. "Next Man Up" "Don't Blink" "Honor Al" all might sound like cliches but this team's words and actions tell me otherwise.
It could be a massive disappointment if this season goes down in flames or conversely, it could be a dream season of overcoming the odds to honor Al.
My glass is 3/4 full. Cheers, CJ!
"RT"..
Congrats on patting yourself on the back...You got "One"...Was there ever any acknowledgement when you failed to guess right??
Seymour
"DHB"
This draft class
Todd Haily -n- Pulsi to "KC"
McDaniels to the "MuleValley"
Gads!!...The list goes on and on!!!
But on this one you and I were in agreement...But I also added that Pryor was on the way!!!..You failed to believe!!
I also questioned why we released Trent Edwards before Pryor was active???...To keep Miller???...But some things happen and in the end it's obvious there was a better way...Hindsight..
I don't need my team to be perfect!!...They never have...It's the fact that we can keep winning despite the adversities that makes this thing so damn exciting...And if you look at what I left behind on the last thread "JC" was not doing very well these past 3 weeks...Not all that difficult to replace....He was not the franchise!!!
Well!!...I must say it's interesting that "CJ" finally has more than a half empty mug of "Raider KoolAid"...Lets hope he doesn't spill it!!!
On that note I will leave you with this to consider:
Is you support of this team contingent upon their winning success???
Is it your take that if out of some 50 years of Raider history failing to win for 7-8 seasons justifies you labeling the Raiders as the "Worst Team In The History Of The NFL"???
As for the rest of us we have been very loyal supporters even onto death because that's about how low this team sunk into that deep dark abyss...So I'm just not going to let you forget and walk away from all the long seasons of your "Doom-n-Gloom" on the "Trail-o-Tears" as though it never happened and you were always right...
PantyRaider...The Record Shows Otherwise!!!/_
Tarzan is beating his chest...More like Cheetah!!
LoL!!!
Re: Last Thread...
"BR"...
YES!!...I see the "WildCat" as an option if Boller can't hang...But with "D-Mac" -n- Pryor together...WoW!!...What speed!!!...
This could be very exciting:
"DHB"/Ford/Moore/Murphy/Chaz/Hagen
Boss/Ausbeery/Myre
Bush/"TJ"/Reece
And Bush was also a "QB" at the lower level...
AngelicRaider...
Are those shirts for sale...I would love to get one...Ultimate KeepSake!!!
PantyRaider...No "Doom-n-Gloom"...This Team Will Still Win!!!/_
Did someone hear that faint crying in the shadows???...Oh!! Ya!!...That was just the LIAR bitchin about too much positive posting in relation to the Late Mr Davis and his storied franchise!!!...What a phony freakin BITCH!!!...
Just can't hide it...Once a HATER always a HATER!!!
Scorpio...
Your becoming a Pimp!!..
That's OK I have been pimping Trent Edwards and that "WildCat" with Pryor...Not just here either...
But I don't think Farve has enough left...But what he has may indeed be more than Boller because he was so far above him that even losing 80% would still make him 50% better...LoL!!!..
The age is no the only issue...Gorge Blanda played until the age of 45 and could still come in off the bench to pull out a "V" when needed...
Things have changed so much now days that it may just be too much of a liability...If the Raiders brought him in and he was crushed and broken we would never hear the end of it as to how we destroyed an old man for the sake of our game...The damn "Mediot"s would have themselves a field day and ya know their all sitting there lickin the chops to get at us about something...
No doubt many lurking in the shadows are in hopes that "JC"s loss destroys all our hopes...
Ain't Happening BITCH!!!
Raider News:
Raiders | Interested in Reggie McKenzie?
Mon, 17 Oct 2011 08:50:38 -0700
The Oakland Raiders have formed a team of consultants to find a general manager for the organization now that managing general partner Al Davis has died. Among the consultants is former Packers general manager Ron Wolf, who along with others recommended Packers director of football operations Reggie McKenzie. It is not clear, however, if the Raiders have approached the Packers for permission to interview McKenzie.
Raiders | Chinedum Ndukwe signs
Mon, 17 Oct 2011 19:07:28 -0700
The Oakland Raiders signed free-agent SS Chinedum Ndukwe (Bengals) Monday, Oct. 17.
Chinedum Ndukwe
6' 2"
7 seasons Cinnci
Tackles 257
Sacks 7.5
INTs 6
Raiders | Joseph Porter released
Mon, 17 Oct 2011 14:28:17 -0700
The Oakland Raiders have released CB Joseph Porter.
Raiders | Trio of veteran QBs not scheduled for workouts yet
Mon, 17 Oct 2011 19:10:29 -0700
Free-agent QBs Trent Edwards (Raiders), David Garrard (Jaguars) and Josh McCown (49ers) have each not yet been scheduled for workouts with the Oakland Raiders, although they have been contacted by the team.
Raiders | Todd Bouman to work out
Mon, 17 Oct 2011 15:22:10 -0700
The Oakland Raiders will work out free-agent QB Todd Bouman (Jaguars) at some point this week.
Gradkowski would have been ideal in this situation, and I believe our current O-line could provide him better protection than he had in the past. That should help Boller as well.
Campbell's stats might not be too impressive, but it's what he didn't do that was most valuable to the Raiders, and that's make a lot of mistakes.
Whoever plays QB needs to stay that course and secure the football, don't force passes and hand off to McFadden.
"Next man up."
"NYR"...
"JC" had the fumble that put this game in jeopardy...
He has thrown 3 "Int"s in the past 3 weeks and only 3 "TD"s produced...I count 4 "TO"s against 3 "TD"s...His game was falling off starting against "NE"...He did play well prior to that...
Here is his last 3 games:
Browns:
J. Campbell 6/9 52yds
Jets:
1st Half: J. Campbell 9/19 132 "TD" "Int"
2nd Half: J. Campbell 6/16 58yds "TD"
Pats:
J. Campbell 11/15 144yds "Int"
J. Campbell 14/25 200yds "TD"-n-"Int"
If you recall we failed to make a single 1st down until very late in the 1st half against the Jets...That's the kind of play that got is in so much trouble last season in games against SF/Miami/Pitts/Tenn...He just goes dead/numb for long periods of time...Have no idea why!!!
I'm very confidant that we can win without "JC"...I'm just not sure we can win with Boller???
To be real honest I would feel more excited this week if Pryor was playing because his legs will light up "KC"s "D" along with the rest of our running game....Than he has an unbelievable nack for making plays out of nothing when the defenders come in pursuit while throwing on the run...
PantyRaider...But That Won't Happen This Week!!!/_
PR:
"Is your support of this team contingent upon their winning success???"
CJ:
No and it never has been. I have been an avid, loyal follower for 40 years to include some bad stretches such as 2003-2009. Of course, it is more enjoyable when your team is playing good football, winning, and has players and coaches that you admire/respect.
"Is it your take that if out of some 50 years of Raider history failing to win for 7-8 seasons justifies you labeling the Raiders as the "Worst Team In The History Of The NFL"???"
Worst stretch of ineptitude (fact). Worst team in the history of the NFL (BS, never said it.) You are an A-Hole for taking $hit out of context.
CJ
It's official. Carson Palmer is a Raider!!!!!!
If this trade for Carson Palmer goes ahead it'd better work.
Looks like it could be costing us first round pics in 2012 and 2013.
Guess the 2012 draft is not going to be very exciting for Oakland fans is it?
At least he should be a decent pick to help Pryor along.
AngelicRaider-
When we were losing these last few years I understood why all the negativity and heated debates. Since we started palying some decent ball we haven't had a 400 or 600 post take in awhile. But now the Raiders are on the mend and we as the craziest fans should also start to heal. Ef all this I am the greatest Raider fan BS, Al was the best Raider fan so the trophy goes to him!!!
We are now on the greener grass of the pasture and I feel there's no good reason to continue to berate other Raider Fanatics. That energy can and should be used for the stabbing of fans of other teams, IE chiefs, chargers and broncos.
Raider Take makes some very well thought out assessments about the state of "our" favorite team and I enjoy them. But to see 40 year olds(or older) act like those little fuckers who shoot me while playing "Halo" online, totally sucks.
On a ligher note.....
Farve are effing kidding me!!! I was looking for minty fresh not old and bitter. I heard Farve was thinking about joining those two grumpy old men from the muppets on the balcony.
all,
carson palmer is costing us too damn much!
2 first round picks? and what has carson palmer done the last two years???? what the hell is hue jackson smoking that he gives up TWO forst round picks for a 32 year old QB? this is the type of transaction that will take you over the top. the kind of transaction that fits a final piece of the puzzle. the kind that wins you a superbowl.
and what are you telling jason campbell? that he just took his last snap for this team? he's a free agent at season's end and with the salary palmer makes and the draft6 picks you give up for him, you make a serious and permanent commitment to palmer. goodbye campbell.
i think the trade is "OK" personnel wise but damn, that is wayyyyyy, way too much! bring in a GM mark and FAST!
My understanding is that the second #2 is a conditional pick. If Carson's our QB for the next 3 years, I'm fine with that.
It's an aggressive, risky move, no doubt, but I was excited when I heard it, which is how I take the temperature of these things.
He *could* be the missing piece of a deep playoff team for the next three years. Two #1's? I'd take that.
Raider Pete / Conch Republican
"You are an A-Hole for taking $hit out of context."
I agree
"Ef all this I am the greatest Raider fan BS"
I agree, someone's ego is much bigger than his/her brain...
Carson Palmer will be an upgrade BUT it sounds as if he is coming at a steep price. Got to give them credit for recognizing the Boller is not the answer and that the position is much more important than a 'manager'. The Org feels as if this team can do it so they are trying to go for the Home Run...Palmer could play a good 4 more years, I heard it's a 1st rounder in 2012 and a 2nd in 2013?
JONES
AngelicRaider-
Please don't get in the middle:
Old adversities that I don't forget when someone wants to beat their chest as if they were always right and always supportive when as noted that was simply NOT the case!!!...But I told him I would remind him of it later and I do...
As for you Jack!!...
Don't you even begin to jump in the middle of something again like last time when you punked out and proved yourself a freakin coward!!!...You lost and that will forever follow you because you failed to acknowledge it and tried to move your freaking rubber walls while hiding!!!
I was so right on with what I challenged that even I'm surprised!!!..
I called out by name both Carson Palmer and Terrelle Pryor as becoming Raiders...
I also noted that an un-named top talent would come in at "OLB"...Now we know that to be Arron Curry....
I specified a "WR" but not correct on the name nor the stature but Hagen is that man...
I also noted "OL" but only one has stuck and not starting but we did try and made moves in that area...
I failed to name the "TE" Boss or our 2 new "S"...
But now take a look at that list...5 big name players BITCH!!!
Palmer "QB"
Pryor "QB"
Boss "TE"
Curry "OLB"
Chinedum Ndukwe "S"
Now add
Gerdano "S"
Hagen "WR"
Heyer "OT"
Blackstock "ILB"
And whoever I missed and your LYING ASS we didn't make a splash this season....You were so freakin wrong it's pathetic while crying nothing would happen because we got's no $$$$!!!
Your a freakin Idiot Jack!!
That post was directed at RT" and only contained a small note about your but as usual you pussy got jerked off and you pissed all over yourself....
Ha! Ha!...If anyone should beat their freakin chest it's those of us who have remained true to this franchise and Mr Davis instead of punking the man the way you disgusting bastards have the past few seasons!!!
PantyRaider....My Raiders Will Win!!!/_
That's a great big "Told You So" in case you didn't notice...
Side Note:
One poster on the "Trail-o-Tears" has sense earned respect and I'm NOT punking him...He was man enough to face the reality and acknowledge the facts way before they became as evident as this...
"NYR" thanks for being a man about it...Shame others don't share you adult honesty...
Now back to my FootBall:
YES!!!...Welcome Carson Palmer to the Raiders...
Yikes!!...Take a look at that roster now!!!
PantyRaider...I'm Thinking More Than Just The "PO"s Now!!!/_
Jones...
You haven't a brain and that's been demonstrated threw time as has your lying ASS!!!
Your nothing but a damn "HateTipper" trying to pose in the Black!!!
Word is the 2nd pick is only a 1st if we win at least one play off game this season...
Damn I gotta say that "V" will be worth that pick...
Me like's it!!!
According to ESPN's NFL Insider Chris Mortensen, the second round pick will be upgraded to a first rounder in 2013 if the Raiders win a playoff game (we're not sure if that means just this year, or one playoff win over the next two post seasons). Otherwise it will stay as a second rounder. Currently the Raiders are 4-2 in the AFC West in second place behind the San Diego Chargers.
It's like 8 years never happened, that a franchise was run into the ground with a stadium more than half empty, never happened and that a certain person was "always right" when history clearly shows that it was always wrong.
I'm sure the pissed off fans had a lot to do with the franchise turning it around, just like all the protests we see across the country, that's how change happens. When something is being run in a horrible manner, speaking out against it is the best thing to create change. Those who spoke out helped create the change that we have seen occur over the past couple years.
I am proud to say I pushed for the " losing is not acceptable". Those who made excuses for the losing did nothing but prolong it, congrats.
JONES
HERE COMES CARSON PALMER!!!!
Perfect!!...YOU ADMITTED YOUR AN IDIOT!!!
The reason why I like this move is because Palmer was a Pro Bowl QB under Hue Jackson, and knows how Hue operates.
The dislikes, we don't have a draft pick until after the 4th Round.
JUST WIN, BABY!!!!
RaiderNate75...
We may yet receive compensatory picks for the loss of Gallery/Namdi/Zack in the 3rd rd...The new players we have are by trades and don't count the same a "FA"s...
Curry -n- Palmer were also top quality 1st rd picks but NOT "FA"s...
To tell ya the truth after so many seasons of sitting home during the "PO"s this is well worth it...If we win those will be very late round picks and won't produce such a top quality "QB" anyway...Prolley...But that there is Pryor for a 3rd...
This is really great...Our new young stud can learn behind Palmer and be ready when needed...This make us potentially set at the most important position on the field for many seasons to come...
Yikes!!!...I'm just way too happy!!!
I didn't admit I'm an idiot....but, you prove you are an over egoed jerk every time you write a post, congrats. Stick to copy and paste.
JONES
Redheaded Jesus!
Panty, I believe the Raiders lost the 3rd round comp pick with the selection of Pryor. The trade is also a 1st round, and a few Comp picks this year and next.
So here is a scenario we need to consider. Say Carson gets us to the Promise Land, and we win the Super Bowl this year, what do we do with Campbell? Do we trade him and get back in the 2nd or 3rd Round?
I think we didn't trade for Carson for the short term. As much as I like Campbell and the job he's done, I think Carson is the better of the 2. Does this put Campbell on notice for when he's healthy? I think so.
I'm extremely excited about this trade. We want to win now, and we are showing that we want to win now.
Man, you have one little heart attack that takes you out of circulation for a few months and you come back and people are still sniping at each other.
Who cares what somebody said or might have said six to twelve months ago. We have a team at 4-2, on the rise, just acquired a former pro bowl QB (although at a fairly stiff price) and we have a division to win.
Let it go and lets move on.
Angelic Raider: Correct, Al was the Biggest Raider Fan.
H
Nate,
Campbell is in the last year of his contract. Doubtful anyone would trade for him.
H
DID I JUST HEAR RAIDER NATE ON KNBR WITH GARY RADNICH?
if carson palmer wins the superbowl for us, those lost 1st rnd picks are moot. but there is NO guarantee we're even gonna reach the playoffs which makes this trade an incredibly risky trade.
why couldn't they make a trade for a lesser known QB who won't cost us 2 1st rounders, and trade for another d-lineman so we could stop the run? isn't THAT more of a higher priority than a QB? or even a big name CB?
with that steep price we paid for this guy (palmer), i say START HIM NOW. next home game, let's go man, let's see what this guy has right now.
another thing i have is bengals owner mike brown KNOWS he fleeced the raiders. OK we'll give you two 1st round picks the next two years, here's what i want from you mike brown: why coulnd't hue jackson work out a deal where the bengals pay the remainder of his contract?
the bengals got the better of this deal BIG TIME because hue jackson is NOT a freaking GM and he was taken advantage of in every which way!
damn, they could've gotten favre and gave up ZERO draft picks...
"H"...
Take care of your health Bro...
As for the past I told "RT" I would remind him and I have...That shouldn't be too big of an issue if a few other idiots can learn their place and stay the hell out of it...
That was you Jack!!!
I don't think there's any doubt that this deal is for the long run...Carson is the man and "JC" will go on the "IR" and prolley not be retained next season...
Pryor is the future which will hopefully be a few seasons down the road when he's completely ready while he makes a few appearances in the meantime...Like the "Snake" -n- Blanda...
Boller will play #2 for now and be done at the end of the season...
We may bring in another developmental "QB" to be #3 and promote Pryor to #2 in the off season...So I suspect...
I had to look it up as I had forgotten...The Late Mr Davis must have had his hand on this one...
Carson Palmer was a USC Heisman Trophy Winner...1st pick in the "03" draft...That was the 1st draft after our "SB" loss to "TB" so Al Davis never had a shot at him from the #31 spot...We all know how Al Davis loved those USC players...
Hue by the way was the "QB" coach for USC in 2000...Than he was "WR"s coach for Cincy from "04" to "06" so he knew Carson Palmer very well both from his college days and time in the NFL...Now they are reunited again...How about that!!!...
So there's really NO doubt that this is for the long run...
PantyRaider....Hue Knows Best!!!/_
Farve, come on, he is DONE. Palmer is a good trade if he works out, if he mails it in, then...not so good. He is an elite QB when he is playing his best. If he reaches that plateau, he will be worth it. Farve, forget about it, the guy isn't even in the picture.
H...you had a heart attack? I could tell you some stories....did it damage your heart? Or did you just need stints?
JONES
According to Corkran:
On the bright side, the Raiders likely will receive one or more compensatory selection for losing free agents Nnamdi Asomugha, Zach Miller and Robert Gallery.
I think this trade proves it's a QB driven league. Even with the power of our running game, there will be contests that teams stop the run and we will need a top QB to carry us.
Palmer is as close to the top of the NFL's QB heirarchy as we could have gotten right now. He was the best available option, and the Raiders got it done. Costly or not, it's impressive. When it comes to personnel, I'd would have anticipated no less from Al Davis.
So much for the "next man up" theory.
As I said before, you think Hue Jackson wants to win, or what?
scorpio, i live in austin, so it was an impostor raider nate.
Jonesy,
The Reader’s Digest version is I’ve been having some off the wall problems for a few years. So, my doctor decided to test my heart. Cholesterol good, blood pressure good, heart rate a little slow but strong, even passed my stress test with flying colors. Then July 27th I had a heart attack. Felt like someone had tied two cinderblocks to my chest.
I’d never felt anything like that in my life so I knew something was wrong. So, thanks to some excellent paramedics and ER staff and two stents later I’m back here to occasionally irritate folks. They stabilized me so fast there was, according to the cardiologist, very little damage that he could see. I had an 80% blockage in one branch of the left artery and 90% in the other. Very lucky I’m still around. After all I’ve got Grandson of H to indoctrinate into the Raider Clan.
For all you guys and gals out there, especially those over 40 (I’m almost 62), if you think something is wrong, it probably is. Even if you have no classic signs of heart disease. I officially have ischemic heart disease. Don’t mess around, the faster you get help, the better off you are. And, thanks to those who asked.
Carson Palmer, welcome aboard. You are now a part of a team that has the most loyal, and some would say loony, of fan bases in the known and unknown universe. Don’t disappoint.
H
Wow, H, glad to hear you came through okay.
Good advice. But if your blood pressure, cholesterol, stress test, etc. all check out okay, is there anything you can do (without breaking the bank) to find out if something's wrong before the heart attack?
Regarding Palmer, I feel like I should be horrified by the cost, but for some reason I'm not. Maybe it's because we've already been handing out draft picks like M&Ms anyway, and because there's this weird sense that Palmer, with a familiar coach and a great running game, could recapture his mojo and deliver three or four good years right as the rest of the team is hitting its stride.
H, I agree. I left for months because I got tired of it. I mean, when you have to take shots for suggesting that Boller's situation is like Plunkett's in 1980, or that Hue Jackson has to be feeling a shit load of pressure, it kind of takes your breath away.
Regardless, it seems that Jackson made the decision between winning it all this season and a more prudent long term solution. He's going for it now.
And - guess what JONES - that means that Carson Palmer is now in the similar position to Jim Plunkett. That ought to make your head explode. I wonder if you are aware of the manner in which Plunk led us to the Superbowl in 1980. I know it must have happened before you were born. It's on Wiki. Look it up.
Now, I don't know if Palmer will match Plunkett. It could be that Jimmy's a once in a lifetime guy, and he's still alive. But that is the example in front of Palmer. According to Plunk, he was just going to make sure that he took advantage of his opportunity.
So, regarding our lack of draft choices for 2012... We're just going to have to make sure that our trade partners do no better than the 32 pick in each round.
By the way, H. Take good care. I developed CHF several years ago. Fortunately I've been able to live with it fairly well. You're good people. I hate to lose those.
I predict that there is no way that Palmer will be ready for at least three weeks - minimum. I'd say that it's fortunate that one of those weeks is a bye, but the team is off for that week so he'll have a full compliment to practice with. That's one reason why I didn't like that move. On the other hand, if Boller does really well and gives Jackson pause as to whether to start Palmer instead, that could be really good news.
I never was a big fan of Carson Palmer.
Blanda, Palmer reminds me more of Jeff George, then Plunkett.
Palmer is a pocket passer, playing in a blitz happy era.
That's why Cincy could never get past Steeler, & Ravens.
Palmer is a sitting duck in the pocket, and they blitzed the hell out of him. And it worked.
IMO, we gave up way too much for Palmer.
Logic suggests Palmer backs up Boller vs the Chiefs and those roles reverse when we play the Chargers.
IMO, Jackson should be prepared to give either starter the hook if the circumstances call for it.
Just win, baby!
Q; now that Palmer is here, does Campbell go to IR? Raiders don't need 4 QBs (particularly after carrying only two for 6 weeks) and Campbell's contract is done after this year.
Raider 00-
Give the Raiders more credit than to place them with the past Bengals teams that Palmer played on.
I never compared anyone to Plunkett in terms of their talent or style of play. All I ever said was that Plunkett's introduction as a Raider starter is similar to the paths taken by both Boller and Palmer - with the exception that Palmer was still wanted by his former team. Palmer just refused to play for Cincy.
Plunkett was highly touted out of college and a first round pick - just like Boller and Palmer. Boller was cast off by his former team because they gave up on him, just like Plunkett. Plunkett came on board as the season was in progress. The Raiders had a new HC, then and now. Then and now, the team was undergoing a rebuilding. The team, now, has been losing for awhile. The team, then, had experienced it's first two seasons out of the playoffs since Al had come to Oakland.
Gee... Can you see any similarities in circumstance here?
The nice thing about having experienced Raider history in real time is that it adds a tremendous amount to the present. I have heard Al Davis say that his favorite Superbowl was 1980. He loved that one the most because it was the most unexpected.
Can the history of Al's favorite year repeat itself in the year of his death? Don't forget I'm an old dramatist. This season has an excellent plot.
You know me. NO fan will miss Al more than I will. But, dear God, so far I love this season. How ever it comes out, it will be one I never forget.
NyRaider,
The issue is not how many weapons the Raiders have on offense. I know they have many.
The issue is, can Palmer get the ball out in the face of heavy blitzing ?
Can he move around, and give himself enough time, to find open receivers, and deliver the ball on target.
In Palmer's career up to now, he has not done it.
Steelers, & Ravens, have always shut him down with heavy blitzing.
Raider00-
I think Palmer is more mobile than you give him credit for. Clips I've seen and what I remember seeing him play is that he can roll out and pass on the run.
Also, my comment wasn't just directed at the Raiders weapons, I also meant the solid play of their O-line. How many sacks have they given up? Not many.
Too, Campbell is not a very mobile QB himself. If he was better skilled at scrambling (and sliding), he'd still be the QB.
NYRaider,
I think the Raiders 0-line is very solid.
But no 0-line can stop all blitzes.
Palmer is a 31 yr old, pocket passer. any scouting report will tell us that.
Not sure what you're reading into Campbell's injury.
I've seen Mike Vick get hurt during scramble.
Does this mean he's not good running with ball ??
Anyway, Palmer will be starting QB at some point. I hope I am wrong about him.
I feel like Take. We gave up a small ransom but, I am not upset. I was very critical of Davis firing Cable, among other things, and I was 100000% wrong. Hue Jackson is the man.
Even before this trade I have not been able to shake the minty freshness feeling. I am excited for the future of the Raiders and I don't have to worry about Hue being fired in a pissing match.
I love his boldness and aggression. This trade just exemplifies his personality. I love it. He reminds me of the coach I always wanted Gruden to be. A great X & O's coach but not scared to bet big.
If we lose, I want to go down swinging!
In Hue I trust!
Roy
Geez, touchy crowd? I brought up that comparing EVERY QB TO PLUNKETT is just, well, reaching for the past. Been a fan since 1970, I know full well what the Plunkett story is.
The Raiders easily could have missed out on winning the Bowl in '76 because Mr. Plunkett had them beat, first in Reg season then in playoffs, thanks to a borderline call, the Raiders advanced to win it all.
Palmer is nothing like Plunkett, Plunkett was beat down and disillusioned when he came to the Raiders. Palmer was just fed up and disgusted with his team. The Raiders picked up Plunkett off waivers, Palmer was traded for with high picks = heavy price.
Boller was not a #1 pick overall and never had any success in the NFL, Plunkett was a rookie of the year in N.E. when N.E. sucked, Plunkett had shown he could do it in the NFL, Boller never has. So to me, comparing everyone to Plunkett, it's just to dreamy.
H....Glad to hear you made it out with little or no damage, the damage is the killer part of it. I received a AICD in 2001, have received plenty of shocks from it. Been in and out of the hospital many times since. Have plenty of damage from the original event and now I am in transplant clinic waiting to go on the list. So I know all about it, glad to here you missed that boat, it's a rough ride. And even though we have had our run ins, wouldn't want to see anyone go down that road, it's tough.
JONES
I got 99 problems...
but a QB ain't one...
Before the deal was done, while it was still speculation, whenever I would think about it, the first thing that would pop into my head was "Go get him, Al!"......
-moshbucket
Palmer's going to tear it UP!
And we didn't give up a ransome, we gave up f-ing LOTTERY TICKETS!
Plus, We're paying him like $350k this season!
I'm a little concerned about chemistry between him and the WR's, but they love Hue, and Carson's Hue's guy!
Fluke injury to JC. Not sure if he's up for backup next year, but I like Palmer/Campbell/Pryor. I call it my PCP QB strategy.
-moshbucket
Raider00-
Have you read a scotting report that says Palmer is not mobile?
You said: "Not sure what you're reading into Campbell's injury."
Look no further than the Browns game for an example. Campbell often looks very awkward when scambling for yardage. On one such play during the Browns game he fumbled. On another, he broke his collar bone. On either play, he could have slid feet first, made positive yardage and avoided what turned out to be really bad results.
By extension, perhaps we are going from one pocket passer to another.
I read the Raiders are on the hook for the balance of Palmer's 2011 contract, or approximately $7.7 mil.
We're paying Palmer more than we're paying Campbell. By a lot. But there are short term consequences and long term consequences.
Palmer's got more than one year on his contract, but there's no doubt that if he got us to the SB we'd renegotiate. We're only on the hook with Campbell for this season. We'll only keep one of them. However, we gave up a 1st round pick for Palmer, so it would appear to me that we intend for him to be the man going forward until Pryor is ready.
JONES, you know your history after all, but I disagree somewhat regarding Plunkett. NE dumped Plunkett because he failed to fulfill their vision of being a roll out option QB. They wanted him to do that because they had a crappy O-line.
NE traded Plunk to SF who loved him as a local celeb because he grew up in San Jose and won the Heisman at Stanford. But SF had NO O-line what-so-ever. All Plunk ever had time to do was drop back two steps and duck. So when Walsh came in, he dumped Plunk's battered and bruised body on the open market.
Al picked him up and said, "Heal and watch what we do." The saving grace for Plunk was one of the best offensive lines in professional football. Plunk could keep his head up. He no longer had to duck.
Our offensive line is currently one of the best in football.
I guess what I'm saying here is that the comparison isn't to Plunkett. It's to 1980.
Also, we can currently afford a pocket passer. Our O-line will support one this season. Don't worry about Palmer's age, because Pryor is designated as the future. If that holds, we only need Palmer for about three years.
1980 is so long ago and with a much different cast, It's like comparing todays Packers with the 1965 version, does anyone do that? Other than G.B. starting the season 6-0? No need to tie them together, this is today, not 1980.
JONES
Bold, aggressive, and living in the moment ... this is Hue Jackson to a T. The key to this trade was the relationship between Palmer and Jackson, in good times and bad.
"Revisionist History" starring PR:
But now take a look at that list...5 big name players BITCH!!!
Palmer "QB"
Pryor "QB"
Boss "TE"
Curry "OLB"
Chinedum Ndukwe "S"
Now add
Gerdano "S"
Hagen "WR"
Heyer "OT"
Blackstock "ILB"
Yes, I'm looking at the list. The bet was a BIG free agent splash.
Newsflash PR:
Palmer, Pryor, Curry and Ndukwe were NOT free agents. Don't let the facts get in your way. LOL!
Gerdano is a back-up safety. Hagen is 6th on the WR depth chart. Heyer is a back-up to a back up OL. Blackstock is a special teamer.
If you won't to get technical and yes, accurate, we signed 1 and only 1 "Big Name" free agent, Boss.
What are you doing on this board still PR? You lost. Your lost. Get lost.
New take is up: Palmer, foolhardy or fateful?
"CJ"...
Your just a lying ass!!...
You knew damn well this would include any form of siging new players..."FA"s/Trades/Sup-Draft!!!
Stop hiding behind your damn LIES!!!
Who is the liar?
(Original Bet)
Blogger PantyRaider said...
"Doubt your man enough to "Put Up Or Shut Up" but I will wager that Mr Davis makes a splash in "FA" this season"
---------------------------------
Blogger Calico Jack said...
PR - "I'm in. I will stop visiting this site for 1 complete year if the Raiders sign 2 big name free agents who are legit starters."
----------------------------------
Blogger PantyRaider said...
"CJ"...Fare enough...Your officially in
----------------------------------
Bottom Line: You signed off on the terms which were for the Raiders to sign 2 big name free agents. Didn't happen. I don't give a $hit how you want to spin it. You lost.
CJ
NYRaider,
I've read online scouting reports that describe Palmer as a "Pocket Passer".
At age 31, with at least one knee surgury, I do not believe Palmer is more mobile then Campbell.
On a 3rd down and 8, Campbell could get that 1st down.
We'll see what Palmer can do.
I think it's easy to get caught up in the moment.
The Raiders just picked up a big name QB. But all these high picks. We also gave up a 3rd rounder for Pryor.
Lost in the noise, is that the Raiders have a defense to build up. The Raiders D is not championship caliber.
We are going to miss these picks.
The last brilliant thing Al Davis did, was to stop signing so many free agents.
No more desmond howards, larry browns, warren sapps.
No more hand outs to players who didn't really appreciate what it meant to wear the silver & black.
Al rebuilt this team through the draft, and shrewd trades.
He got players that wanted to wear the Raiders uniform with pride.
And it's paying off.
But whats left if all the draft picks are gone ?
Free agents is all that would be left to improve team.
Al Davis, after being burned so many times, wisely stopped going down free agent road.
Now, I like Hue Jackson. I was one of the first, and few at the time, to endorse letting Cable go, and promoting Hue.
But Hue is not Al Davis.
Hue is a HC who, understandably, just wants to win his next game.
But a "scorched earth policy", where nothing is left, is not the best way to do it.
We need a GM fast, to put the brakes on Hue.
Someone that won't react to every injury in a knee jerk way.
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