Lions Gameday Thread
Today we will see if the Raiders' "rejuvenated effort" in practice pays off and keeps us in the playoff hunt. This is the organization's biggest game in nine seasons. Good tidings await. GO RAIDERS!
posted by Raider Take at 12:59 PM
187 Comments:
...wow... disciplined play! Go Oak... 4 quarters.... hey look.. wait.... TD!
Damn Raiders!!...Just NO heart!!...They suck so bad...If "RT" tells us so it must be true!!!
DET OAK
First Downs 10 15
Total Yards 217 260
Passing Yards 204 190
Rushing Yards 13 70
Penalties (Yds) 4(37) 3(15)
Turnovers 0 0
Punts (AVG) 4(39) 2(45)
Time of Pos. 14:41 15:19
OAKLAND RAIDERS
Passing CP/AT YDS TD INT
C. Palmer 17/21 202 1 0
Rushing CAR YDS TD LG
D. Moore 1 13 0 13
M. Bush 8 19 0 6
M. Reece 1 26 0 26
L. Murphy 1 12 1 12T
Receiving REC YDS TD LG
D. Heyward-Bey 3 83 1 43T
M. Bush 4 46 0 18
M. Reece 3 16 0 18
C. Schilens 2 14 0 9
L. Murphy 1 8 0 8
D. Moore 2 13 0 13
T. Houshmandzadeh 2 22 0 16
looks like the chiefs game is going to be more difficult than first thought.
the raiders have got to find sync with each other offensively.
looks like the troops might keep their composure... thats been my position since. .. whoa... TD for the D!!!!!
That 4th down pass to Moore that went over his head...illegal contact on Defense = no call = BS. DHB, FINALLY, 4 yr project coming to fruition, still needs to learn some fundamentals = fumble. Lots of Defensive aggression with play calling = more effective Defense.
Routt playing well, Ronaldo should be called to blitz more often.....
JONES
Unsportsmanlike conduct?????? i could see if Kelly punched Stafford.... cmon Zeebs
Bresnahan is an idiot! 4 and 2, and you put 3 on the line and let the QB run for a first? Good job, numbnuts
Four Quarters.
UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Once again our Defense lets us down!!!!
weak sauce.
on the freaking two, and the raiders d cannot hold. unfreakingbelievable!
Tom Flores himself is irate because of the lack of defensive play.
"Insane, it doesn't make sense!" said coach Flores.
How can you have a LB covering C. Johnson????
KC licking chops.
From now on, they should call themselves the "Oaklan Raiders"
Because there is no "D" in Oaklan.
Honestly??? This is very sad that we have once again allowed a team to come back in the 4th qtr again. This is just unacceptable!!!!!!!!!!
Our D allowed 2 TD's in 5 mins, really?
Our Defensive is despicable.
C. Johnson is allowed to like a beast.
9 214 23.8 51 2
I am so offically done with this team
Hue never should have passed on 3-2.
Why do the Raiders do this so often? Why do they go soft at the end of games and run around in the secondary like beheaded chickens?
The defense finally showed up, but forget to stay until the end.
Coach is way to f-ing cocky. First, he should have kicked the fieldgoal in the 1st half (would have won the game). Then he's talking to Bresh after we went up by 13, and from that point on, not a single blitz, and they just marched all over the field until it was over. Then, the deep ball when we should have ran bush again and atleast would have taken it down to the 2min warning (instead, they were able to get several more off before).
So, Hue, there ya go. Everyone would be talking 'hot seat' if Al were still alive....
-moshbucket
OAKLAN Raiders!
I remember seeing this happen in the 80's, the 90's and 2000's, the prevent Defense that the Raiders have run for DECADES. PREVENTS THEM FROM WINNING. Renaldo covering deep over the middle in the last 2 minutes while playing prevent? I mentioned this during the Jets game when he did the same thing vs the Jets. INSANE. How could it be possible that Renaldo has resposibility for a WR who is in 'beast mode' for most of the day? INSANE. Poor Coaching in another 2nd half letdown, this team does not have the coaching to be more than an 8-8 team. New GM, New Coaches and a new system...Aggressive 1st half and it was working, all kinds of Blitz packages, stunts, zone and man....WTF happened? POOR COACHING, a 'bully' doesn't let up, he continues to pound. It's done, unless there is a miracle.
JONES
...you should have seen Tebow playing for four quarters. That pass to Schillens was some irresponsible crap. Like I said, I'm a Football fan first, raider fan second, and man, them Lions sure hung in there. One point spread was called too... Oaklame Faiders have no excuse... Palmer should have changed the play too... That's called SWAGGER and it's time for something, SOMETHING besides Clown Car RT... this is a new low.
Panty's excuses should be entertaining too.
"Hey Schillens, don't forget our toenail appt tomorrow, and hey, by the way, we have such a massive lead, it's in the bag, how bout runnin' a Clown an' Out for AL, buddy" ~ Hue Jackson
For some bizarre reason, Jackson preferred to try a 65-yard FG at the end of the game instead of kicking a 35-40 yard FG at the beginning.
What's up with the low percentage pass plays on 3rd (and 4th) and short? The worst was the call with time running down and Bush on a role... Jackson calls a long pass which stops the clock on the incompletion. (That's almost as bad as Marion Barber running out of bounds.)
Bresnahan is a boob! No pressure when it mattered most. Instead, McClain is chasing Calvin Johnson down the field for what was the equivalent of a hail marry.
99-yard TD drive?! Are you friggin kidding?
at the very least, bresnahan must go. the lions burned them a couple of times in zone d if im not mistaken...
you take the freakin 3 points hue dammit!
lechler sure as hell did his job late, defense did not.
no pressure on the qb at all, most of the game. did we get ANY sacks????
haywerd-bey man - hot one minute, cold the next.
it was a bad omen late 4th when they couldn't get that last 1st down. to rely on this defense was extremely dangerous and sure enough, look what happened.
i don't know anymore what to make of this team. like atkinson said in the postgame, you gotta play 60 minutes. they played 60, we played 59. end of story!
I guess the playoffs are still theoretically in reach. But one thing is for sure, if we don't run the table, that will be NINE straight seasons without a winning record.
Like Gannon said a few years ago BOMB the place and start all over again. HUE IS SOOOOOO FULL OF SHIT HE NEEDS TO BE FIRED. He's not head coach material. WHAT AN IDIOT!!!
What the FK was He thinking? All we needed was a first down and we win. Time runs out and BINGO!!!
WETPANTY, WHAT'S YOUR EXCUSE NOW? I BELIEVE THIS CLOWN IS NON OTHER THAN JOHN HERRERA. IF YOU DON'T LIKE RAIDER FANS EXPRESSING THEIR THOUGHTS AND FRUSTRATIONS ABOUT THE RAIDERS CAUSE YOU GET ALL MOIST, THEN GET THE FUCK OUT OF RAIDER TAKE. YOUR CRAP IS GETTING OLD!!! I GOT AN IDEA FOR YOU, CREATE YOUR OWN BLOG AND TAKE ALL YOUR SILLY ASS STATISTICS WITH YOU.
SCALR8R
A SEVEN AND SEVEN RECORD MEANS YOU CAN'T WIN MORE THAN YOU LOSE. T H A T S U C K S !!! GANNON AND BROWN STATUES ARE ON MY DESK, AND THERE THEY WILL STAY. MY BLOOD IS STILL BLACK, BUT IT'S BOILING...
IT IS TRUE. THE RAIDERS SUCK.
NO STAT CAN DENY THAT.
LEVEL THE PLACE
NEW UNIS
NEW EVERYTHING
THE PAST IS FREAKING KILLING THEM
OUT.
Oaktown new unis. You're crazy dude. Raider unis are AWESOME. BEST IN THE NFL.
SCALR8R
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice I must be Chuck Bresnahan.
I for one am not blaming Hue for taking gambles early knowing full well how horrific our defense is... and anyone claiming he should be fired is out of their mind. Ja, keep the head coaching carousal turning... THATS the way to change a franchise! Please.
That said, Breshnahan should be fired NOW. That was the worst coaching of a defense I have witnessed in 40 years of watching football. Lazy zone all throughout the first half... every time he blitzed it worked but he rarely did it. No fake blitzing... I don't think I have seen it all year. You have the team pinned back on the two with no option to run and you DONT BLITZ to give your team a chance to end the game with a safety? And don't get me started with his refusal to double Johnson the entire game.
A 6 year old playing Madden randomly picking defensive plays could have called a better game.
Its bad enough to have the worst secondary in the league, but a DC THAT DOESNT EVEN KNOW WHAT HE IS DOING???
They fire HC's this late in the season... why not DC's?
Put RWood in charge.
>>>>
RaiderRealist said...
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice I must be Chuck Bresnahan.
>>>
Who woulda thought he might try a long pass to Calvin Johnson with the game on the line though???
If you refuse to blitz in that situation, at least dbl CJ. Make the rest of the team beat you... they had EIGHT drops before that. Maybe Breshnahan didn't notice that.
Its like leaving Jordan wide open with 5 seconds to play... gosh.. whodathunkit!!
"IF YOU DON'T LIKE RAIDER FANS EXPRESSING THEIR THOUGHTS AND FRUSTRATIONS ABOUT THE RAIDERS CAUSE YOU GET ALL MOIST, THEN GET THE FUCK OUT OF RAIDER TAKE."
Yeah, and take all your alias names with ya. Just drive your clown car over to the San Diego site that I see you hang out at. Jethro is is musing with Charger fans about what the Chargers need to do, to win. Talk about a JUDASS.... and Jethro can kiss my ass.
JONES
"and anyone claiming he (Hue) should be fired is out of their mind. Ja, keep the head coaching carousal turning... "
Raiders need a GM Gary, someone with a vision, that vision probably won't be Hue. Hue was Mr.Davis' vision, a guy who he could 'work with'. The new GM probably won't want a HC to 'work with' the way Mr.Davis used to work with them, know wat i'm sayin? If a new GM is hired, no getting around it. New culture, new design, new vision.
Mr.Davis was the Raiders, he controlled the operation, with his passing, no one else alive could or would attempt to do that. If the Raiders lose the last 2 GMs., good chance Hue is gone or, he could be kept as an assistant coach.
JONES
Thats like the 4th or 5th time we've given up a huge play down the middle with the game on the line: Cleveland, Bears, Vikings, Texans did it twice in their last drive (once on 3rd and 25, then later on same drive down to the 10 or so when Schaub got outside the pocket).
And now the Lions.
And I'm getting really sick of Hue's playcalling when he goes deep on 3rd and 4. Even a short run and more time off the clock works way better.
I'm not done, but I was certainly hoping for more this year.
>>>
Raiders need a GM Gary, someone with a vision, that vision probably won't be Hue.
>>>>
And that is a "vision" you are interested in??? Thank gawd you have NOTHING to do with any football operations related to the Raiders.
All head coaches deserve three years to prove themselves... unless the wheels are obviously coming off (cough Haley).
You are just an obnoxious knee jerk football fan. Your opinion on this subject is as next to meaningless as anything on this board has ever been written.
That said... you are not as obnoxious as you used to be... keep up the improvement!
>>>
And I'm getting really sick of Hue's playcalling when he goes deep on 3rd and 4. Even a short run and more time off the clock works way better.
>>>
Only if it doesn't work.
I think the team appreciates Hue TRUSTING his players and franchise QB to make those plays... this will help in the future.
I have ZERO problem with those calls.
But calling a zone with a 5th string FS???? Thats what a 7 year old does in Madden.
Breshnahan is over his head...
Gary...
It's really no use Bro...These damn Criers couldn't wait to join in that "Circle-o-Tears" again...As it will always be on this board now...NO commitment to support only commitment a to TEARS!!
Your absolutely right about "SuckChuck"!!!....He Should have already been gone!!!
Our "D" could play and help this team win as witnessed in the 1st 3 1/2 quarters of play but NOT with "SuckChuck" at "DC"...He totally blew it...
Hue made a few mistakes but also called the plays that worked too so before you bastards jump on his ass take a look at all the positives that got us up by 13 late in that game!!!
"DHB" played a one hell of a game but wasn't perfect...That fumble going down to the goal line was NOT Hue's fault but it cost us at least 3 if not 7 points...Those points would have won this game...So add that to what Hue would have produced...
For the record:
It's been a great season...Ups -n- Downs yes...Good -n- Bad yes...But exciting right down to the end...But evidently it ain't over yet but very damn close...But I for one am thankful to have had it to watch and enjoy the high moments that this teams has struggled to bring to us...
Appreciating that just a few months ago we didn't even know if we would view our Raiders again ever???
Now's NOT the time to shit on that "Raider Parade" with your disgusting little girl tears...It's time to muster up some support and continue to hold hope as long as this team continues to hold hope...And that will be right into the off season and that season which is to come later....
This is a damn good team...Needs a few additions and a few subtractions to be great but we be right on the cuff...
PantyRaider...Lovin -n- Supporting My Raiders To The Bitter End!!!/_
NOT the god damn little girl crying bastards who are always fuckin each other in the ass!!...Or sucking it!!
The Current Play Off Picture: Week #15
Fight for the AFCW -n- "WildCard"
Raiders Can Not Finish Above 9-n-7
Not sure but think "KC" still has a chance to take the AFCW??
Notes; Raiders hold the tie breakers over the Jets....
AFCW:
"OakTown" 7-n-7 Div 2-2
16 Dec 24 OAK @ KC
17 Jan 01 SD @ OAK
"Donkey"!!! 8-n-6 Div 3-2
16 Dec 24 DEN @ BUF
17 Jan 01 KC @ DEN
"SD" 7-n-7 Div 2-n-3
16 Dec 24 SD @ DET
17 Jan 01 SD @ OAK
"KC" 6-n-8 Div 2-n-2
16 Dec 24 OAK @ KC
17 Jan 01 KC @ DEN
AFCS
Tenn 7-n-7 Div 1-2
16 Dec 24 JAC @ TEN
17 Jan 01 TEN @ HOU
AFCE
Jets 8-n-6 Div 3-2
16 Dec 24 NYG @ NYJ
17 Jan 01 NYJ @ MIA
AFCN
Cinci 8-n-6 Div 2-3
16 Dec 24 ARI @ CIN
17 Jan 01 BAL @ CIN
Adjustments: Conference Records
Tenn 5-5
Cinn 6-5
Jets 6-5
“Donkey” 6-5
“SD” 6-5
Raiders 5-5
“KC” 3-7 Note: Can’t win a “WC” spot…
No thanks to the coaching, Raiders played well enough to win yesterday. Anytime Stafford was pressured, he fell apart. The lack of pressure at the end allowed him to drop back for a long sideline pass and a bomb down the middle.
Raiders strength on D is up front but Bresnahan put the game in the hands of his depleted secondary. Stupid and predictable.
Short-term:
Raiders have to win out and hope KC can beat Tebow. Unless I'm mistaken, the Raiders would win the division.
Long term:
Bresnahan has to go, but I wouldn't replace Jackson. However, I believe he should turn over play calling to Saunders.
Jackson's apparently is in the same funk that Cable experienced his rookie year as HC. Both spread themselves too thin by trying to be OC as well as HC.
Leaving three points on the field in the first quarter. Third and three with a shot at running the clock out and you go deep. The slant had been there all day, plus Bush had been doing a good job on that series.
It's another example of Jackson sometimes being just a little too cute by half.
There there was bad clock management. Why are you calling a timeout when you are up by 13 with five and a half minutes left and your defense on the field.
The defense deserved a better fate. A fourth down stop, a defensive TD.
Third a three and we go for not only a low percentage play, but one that stops the clock.
We're supposed to be a good running team. Well, just line up and tell the Lions, "Stop us if you can."
Hue Jackson snatched defeat for the jaws of victory.
My biggest complaint about the defense is 99 yards to go. Pressure with at least five, maybe six on the first play. You just might sack him or a holding call in the end zone is also a safety.
H
SCAR
First off, let me say I don't intend my first post of the year to be after a loss, but if I dont rant, I might start burning Raider jerseys.
The Good.,
The offensive line played thier guts out. The lions strength is their defensive line, but you wouldnt know it. Palmer had time to pass, Bush had holes to run through, and the offensive line had very few flags.
D Heyward Bey rumbling for 2 touchdowns....oh wait...
The bad.,
I don't care if Carson Palmer throws for 400 yards,
When the temperature gets turned up this guy wilts. WHY does Carson Palmer have to go for the HomeRun when a single or double will win the game?!? 3rd and 2, with under three minutes in the game and Schillens has no one within 5 yards of him!! Carson, stop trying to be Superman and WIN the FREAKIN game! Throw him a pass that you know will reach him, even if it isnt a touchdown. Are you worried about your freakin QB rating more than the win?!? Oh, let's not forget about D. Moore being 10 yards open in the first half and Carson overthrows him...
D. Heyward Bey...Are you Really going to fumble the ball in the fourth quarter inside the lions ten yard line when a touchdown(maybe even a field goal) will put the game out of reach???
The Ugly.,
Wow Bresnahan, you sure know how to call 60 minutes of defensive football dont you???
Did I really see McClain make the tackle of C. Johnson 40 yards from the line of scrimmage in the fourth quarter of a game?? Can someone please explain to me why that was a good defensive call from the sideline? I didn't like Bres the first time he was here, and he hasn't changed my mind.
Secondary,,,,,,,The Lions thank you for giving them every opportunity to win this game....How in the world do you let The WR's get behind you SO DAMM MUCH!!! Boyd gets burned, Mitchell gets burned, Digiorno should have caught an int that could have sealed the game.
I just dont get it... a prime opportunity to get back into the race. If you are an outsider looking in, you say,,,that was a heck of a game,,,back and forth, big plays... Then you take a closer look, and see that this game was FULL of Raider Mistakes.
The playoffs arent completely out of the picture, and limping in would be better than not at all, because you cant win playoff games if you aren't in the playoffs, but this loss stings and stinks.
P.S. is Mcfadden in a contract year or something?
SCAR,,,
"NYR"...
"WC" still in the picture but slim...
Cinn has to lose to Baltimore...Could happen...
Jets have to lose one to "NYG" or Miami...Could happen..
Tenn not sure...Win out of lose one??...Jacks/Hou...
Raiders have to post "V"s against "KC"-n-"SD"...Not sure that happens??
"H"...
Add to your list of mistakes:
Players:
"DHB" fumble...Sad but shit happens
Palmer...2 wide open targets missed for the score...Again shit happens...
"DeathRo"...Out of position at the worst time...Again shit happens..
Chaz...Glass hands too..
Sure there were others??
But each of these players also made some very nice plays in this game...So let's give them some credit as well...
Same goes for the coaches "H"...
That "D" in the 1st 3 1/2 quarters was nice to see...Than the idiot surfaced and everything went south...But can't have that so "SuckChuck" must go but thanks for showing us what could have been...
Hue called some nice plays and had the right game plan to take this game...But yes he made some rookie mistakes and we all have to live with those...
So it is what it is...Can be fixed prolley after the season...2012 looks rewarding...
PantyRaider...Time To Move On...If We Get Some Help!!!/_
Stupid is as stupid says.....Look you mental midgets, the team is going to have to hire a new GM = FACT. The new GM will only take the job if he can mold the team in his vision = FACT. There is no way a GM worth a crap will take the job if he has to work under Mr.Davis' system = FACT. You dummies want to keep banging your head against the wall trying to prove that the old way will still work. A new GM will not = FACT. So if you have any reasoning ability, you will see that this is how it will go down. AND, when the new GM is hired, you can be sure that he won't want Hue to be HC. I know that might be hard for you posers to understand, but it is the facts...so blow me. The vacuum has begun to suck up all the old dust and you dusty farts will get sucked up with it. HAVE A GOOD TRIP.
JONES
Typical...The fagots looking for a boy friend...That's what he's always posting about...Some man's ass!!
"so blow me. The vacuum has begun to suck up all the old dust and you dusty farts will get sucked up with it."
The TRUTH...Now it's "= FACT."
= FACT.= FACT.= FACT.= FACT.= FACT.
Same-Same!!!....LIAR!!!
Talking about your childhood sweetheart???...You sick son of s BITCH!!
----------------------------------
Anonymous JONES said...
Reminds me of a gay kid that used to live in my neighborhood...he would wear all his gay clothes and flaunt that he was gay. Then someone would call him a fag and he would scream "bitch" and "liar" and other things. As soon as you would chase after him, he would run like a coward.
.where are they now? And who has been reduced to that kid who wore the gay clothing?...
panty, yes while hue does make rookie mistakes, he should have learned by now to correct those mistakes. he's been making 'em all year. now we have 9 toes out the playoff door. if hue decides to kick the field goal on that 4th and 1 instead of getting greedy, that 3 points would've been the difference in the game. one thing's for sure: bresnahan must go.
jones, i agree with you, except the blow me part. i said it before here also and i'll say it again - the new gm will want his OWN coach.
Flag on Panty... obvious. No tears here... I chuckled on 3rd and 2... winced first... nature of the call was greedy and uncalled for. I thought they might lose at that point. And they did. No surprise. Then I switchef channels and the way Teebs was scrambling ud think it were a three point game... wow. Four Quarters.
Can't refute what I wrote, hey Jethro? Keep trying to discredit with your childish attacks, you cannot refute the message = you are a feeble minded doink.
Scorpio...it's a figure of speech directed at the 2 stooges called Gary and Jethro and all his alias.
JONES
By the way Jethro, why are you on Charger sites sucking up to their fans and discussing how the Chargers can win? I knew from the moment I started on this site that you are nothing more than a freak/ fraud. You have no value but to spread deceit and a false bravado = you stink up the joint. Why do you run on Pacific time zone when you supposedly live in Cambodia? It is you who is full of lies and your constant projection of yourself onto other posters is way too obvious. The king of name calling and LIES is you , Jethro. Go to the Donkies site and tell them how much you really love Tebought, ya phony.
JONES
Another head scratcher. After Curry scored with the fumble. Why not go for two. One point did you not good if they score two TD's.
If you get the two, at least you will probably be looking at overtime.
There were just a few too many bad coaching decisions a play calls for even my optimism to over come.
I like being agressive and "dying with your boots on", "stepping on their necks" and all that. But, on occasion descretion is sometimes the better part of valor.
When a three yard run or pass will accomplish the same basic thing as a fifty yard TD pass, which is easier to accomplish. Palmer had been nailing the short ones all game long.
H
First off, tough, TOUGH loss. It is still eating me up.
However, everyone blaming Hue is missing the point. I LOVE his aggressive play calling. I am sick and tired of losing due to passive play calling at the end of the game. Hue is a gambler and I will take that. I think his first season has been a tremendous success.
Before this season started myself and the rest of the IAAFers were prepared for doom and gloom. I thought we would go 6-10. To be in the playoff hunt at the end of the season is amazing. This does not take into account that all of our offensive weapons were gone for most of the year.
We need to bring in a GM--and no Jones he won't fire Hue--and we need to fire Chucky. Let's go get a talented DC and maybe a younger OC.
This is a talented team and even though this season is going to be filled with would a, could a, should a, I am EXCITED about the future.
Roy
Roy, what makes you think that a new GM would keep an 8-8 HC that was hired by a prior GM/Owner? Do you not think there are better options than Hue? The only reason Hue became HC of the Raiders and no other team, is because of the unique situation that WAS Oakland. That situation has now passed and IF a new GM is hired, he will only take the job if he can run the team in his vision, as any GM worth a shit, would....if you think hiring a psuedo GM is in the works to continue the status quo in Alameda, I would have to disagree. The team needs strong leadership in the Front Office = GM. Any GM worth a shit will not run Alameda the way it has been run since it's inception. Hue could be retained, but not as a HC, IMO. A new GM = a new HC.
JONES
who here, after this week, really believes that the raiders are going to beat the chiefs this week?
not me. i'm back to "just prove it, baby!"
You know, it shouldn't be forgotten.
As much as the Raiders defense choked at the end.
The Raiders offense, once again, failed to score a TD in the 2nd half of a game.
Jones, I think the Raiders should go for a young GM that is not a retread from another team. Hue is a young dynamic coach and I think any GM should want to work with him.
Please remember we are not hiring a GM because we just fired a failure. We are hiring a GM because ours died, HUGE difference. Also, 8-8 is not a negative when discussing the Raiders who had set the record for most 11 loss seasons in a row ending just last year.
Roy
Last year, everyone said that Cable had to go, with a worse team compared to this yrs version and finished at 8-8. Now, it's "can't fire Hue, he is too good"? Hue worked well with Mr.Davis, without Mr.Davis, Hue hasn't gotten the same results. If I was the new GM, I would have to look at that very closely. Hue was a QB Coach prior to Oakland, he had 2 tries as OC and lasted 1 yr each time. If the Raiders have a poor finish, those who would want to keep Hue....doesn't make sense, IMO, there would be better choices.
JONES
"Please remember we are not hiring a GM because we just fired a failure. We are hiring a GM because ours died, HUGE difference."
And because the 'GM' died, that would cause a difference in who the new GM would want as a HC? You are trying to tell me that Hue is a top HC? IMO, he isn't and a new GM will be brought in with the reigns so to speak.
I believe a QUALITY GM will not sign UNLESS he is allowed to run the franchise as he sees fit. I could see the new GM keeping Hue as HC if he was burning it up, but he isn't. We have witnessed mediocre for so long, that Hue looks like gold. There is better and hopefully this franchise is going to be run better starting this offseason.
JONES
..."Also, 8-8 is not a negative when discussing the Raiders who had set the record for most 11 loss seasons in a row ending just last year."....
Yikes, another example of a Raider fan being beat down to accepting an 8-8 season after yrs of not good football...it's a shame that the bar is so low. Come on Roy, we have got to have higher standards, are Raider fans like a beaten dog? beaten to submit to mediocre as acceptable? Say it ain't so.
JONES
Jones,
There were several of us Raider fans pleading with Al not to fire Cable. Although I love Hue, I thought that was a bad decision. Good teams do not fire coaches every year, it is bad for player development.
I believe Hue is a top HC. I think he needs to be unshackled from Chuck and Al Saunders and be allowed to choose his staff.
IMO, a head coach must be given three years to truly gauge his talent, unless you have an epic failure.
What were you predicting at the beginning of the year? If I remember correctly it was not a positive outlook, nor was mine. I think Hue exceeded expectations and should be given an opportunity to see what he can accomplish given an offseason.
He had no OTA's and an short training camp, plus he had to work with all the constraints that come with working for the Raiders.
Roy
Roy,
I picked 5-11..I was totally against Cable being fired because he had brought stability and the team played for him. I didn't want Hue as HC and thought it was a bad move. The team kept it's stability but it has disappeared soon after the passing of Mr.Davis.
It seems, that once Hue wasn't working "under the constraints" of Mr.Davis, the team hasn't been the same. That's my point, Hue needs his 'mentor' to be at his best. That 'mentor' is gone, he is on his own, the results show a decline. I don't see the same focus from the team and RT alluded to it.
I see a team that is fractured. It could be the O vs the D feud again, or it's frustration of the team being stuck with Mr.Davis' DC, who continues to run the same Defense for whatever reasons. It could be something from the Front Office....hard to say. I hope they hire a top GM and let him do his thing.
JONES
Jones,
I think the team falling apart traces back to losing McFadden, Jacoby and Moore. McFadden is a top 5 back and adds another dimension to our offense.
Here's to hoping we go 9-7 and make the playoffs!
Roy
Offense put up enough to win vs Detroit...Offense isn't the problem, the Defense is killing them, they had their best gm in a while yesterday and still blew it. 1st down from the one yrd line @ 1:30 to play, Detroit had no timeouts...Palmer was 30-38? and 2 of those were spikes...Coaching and Defense lost that gm. Coaching was nonexistent vs Miami and GB...the coaching is missing. I agree that McFadden is a big blow, he is the heart of the O and a gamebreaker. Bush wears down a D though. If they make the playoffs, Hue could still be HC next yr.
JONES
It's a blue monday...
Blue Monday
"H"...
Here are my thoughts as to why Hue did what he did???
Up By 12...(7+5) If You Miss The 2 Pt Conversion....Up By 13....(7+3+3) Possible 3 Scores.....Up By 14....(7+7)..Either Way It's 2 Or More Scores..
That “D” should have been able to hold and prolley would have if it was called the same way it was most of the game…Aggressive!!..
It Wasn't All The "D"..."O" Had It's Failures As Well...
Lions…………………………………….Raiders
Third Down Efficiency 8/17 – 47% Third Down Efficiency 1/9 – 11%
Fourth Down Efficiency 1/2 – 50% Fourth Down Efficiency 0/1 – 0%
Net Yards Rushing 57 Net Yards Rushing 132
Average Gain per Rushing Play 3.0 Average Gain per Rushing Play 6.0
With Only 1 Out Of 9 On 3rd Dn How Confident Are You In Making A Play???
3-3-DET 48 (2:32) (Shotgun) 3-C.Palmer pass incomplete deep right to 81-C.Schilens.
So time is short…Your only up by 6…Your on Detroit’s 48…Too far for a “FG”…Their “D” is Max-Protect for anything within 5 yds…You have consistently failed in this situation this entire game against their “D”…
#1…Try for a 3-4 yd play again and see if you can bust threw their “D”…If so a fresh set of dns around their 45…
#2…Dial up something their not in max-protection on to see if you can shake someone loose…If complete your at their 25 already in “FG” range to put yourself up by 2 scores…9 pts…
Hue gambled on the bigger play with the bigger payoff…NOTHING is high percentage in this situation because you don’t have any consistency in converting 3rd dns…So the odds on one are about as good as the odds on the other…But on one their not looking for it…Not expecting it…
PantyRaider...Always 2nd Guessing If It Doesn't Work!!!/_
The Shadow Talks To Himself...Or was the himself talking to his shadow???...Prolley difficult to keep that all straight in his Pseudo Personality Split!!!
Anything to look popular!!
VERY PROMISING SEASON,7-4 @ ONE TIME.
BUT AFTER 3 VERY POOOOORLY COACHED GAMES OUR SEASON SEEMS TO BE LOST, THANKS TO HUE. 14 GAMES INTO THE SEASON AND "COACH JACKSON"(what he calls himself) "STILL TRYING TO GET IT FIXED". HIS FUCKIN' QUOTE WEEK IN WEEK OUT!!!
WHERE'S THE BULLY THAT I WAS PROMISED WHEN HE WAS HIRED?
SCALR8R
The Raiders played a spirited game and made numerous dynamic plays by all 3 units.
The failure to close out this game should haunt the coaching staff.
Overall, I liked Hue Jackson's gameplan and Palmer was extremely sharp.
However, poor clock management, understanding the context of a game (both offensively and defensively), and a few key failures to execute disallowed the game being closed out.
My opinion:
Hire the best, available GM. Would love to see McKenzie join us.
Retain Jackson as HC. Have Jackson pick/tinker with his coaching staff to include a new DC. (Nolan and Zimmer come to mind)
Year 1 Under New GM
Give Jackson and staff 2012 to prove their worth and concentrate soley on personnel related duties.
If Jackson either comes up short to (a) win 10 games or (b) make the playoffs in 2012, the GM can select his own HC for 2013.
I agree about stability. In spite of Jackson's rookie mistakes and errors in judgment, I believe he has earned the right to a full camp, healthy bodies, and an opportunity to improve upon 2011.
Once again, Calico Jack, could not have even come close to saying it better myself. Overall happy w effort, but not enough, deal not closed.
ABC, OTB ... always be closing.
In spite of an extremely frustrating and in many ways, disappointing season, I really like our team.
In past years, there would be negative comments, excuses, and finger pointing by the players. Not this year which bodes well for Hue Jackson's leadership abilities.
This team has good chemistry, an exciting core group of young guns, and a very bright future. I'm in now, 2012, and beyond!
yep. might as well look forward to next year!
with no draft, management is gonna have to get super creative to improve this team. and that starts with a new GM.
our hopes must start with a GM. let HIM build the bully.
Improvement for 2012 is a healthy roster, Carson Palmer utilizing a highly talented group of skill players, and a defense deployed by a competent DC.
In the meantime, it would be nice to see the Raiders beat divisional foes in their last 2 games and finishing up strong.
>>>
This team has good chemistry, an exciting core group of young guns, and a very bright future. I'm in now, 2012, and beyond!
>>>
I couldn't agree more! This is an extremely young team with a veteran QB and a coaching staff that seems dynamic but flawed at times, a rookie HC does make mistakes too.
And to discount the injury problems? Look at Chicago after they lost their QB and RB... they are a grease fire now, and they have 5 times the defense we do.
This team is set up to be pretty stellar for many years...
>>>>
Before this season started myself and the rest of the IAAFers were prepared for doom and gloom. I thought we would go 6-10. To be in the playoff hunt at the end of the season is amazing.
>>>
Good point... I purposely stayed away from this hell-hole because of the gloom and doomers... how many of them thought we would win 7 games before the season started?
Now they are all pissed off because we aren't going to win TEN??
And don't want to hear excuses because of the injuries... name ONE person here that thought we would win even seven games before the season started... JONES???
You going to step up to the plate???
Yikes!!!
Gary...
Ya can't challenge the over challenged like that...They may throw their asses of the cliff...LoL!!
Now For A Corrected Re-Post From The Last Thread:
-----------------------------------
Bills fall from 6-n-1 after injuries:
9 Nov 06 NYJ 27 @ BUF 11
10 Nov 13 BUF 7 @ DAL 44
11 Nov 20 BUF 8 @ MIA 35
12 Nov 27 BUF 24 @ NYJ 28
13 Dec 04 TEN 23 @ BUF 17
14 Dec 11 BUF 10 @ SD 3
15 Dec 18 MIA 30 @ BUF 23
da Bears fall form 7-n-3 after injuries:
12 Nov 27 CHI 20 @ OAK 25
13 Dec 04 KC 10 @ CHI 3
14 Dec 11 CHI 10 @ DEN 13
15 Dec 18 SEA 38 @ CHI 14
"KC" fails due to injury early and again late: Winning only once against another team losing due to injury...Remarkable now win against the best.."GB"...
1 Sep 11 BUF 41 @ KC 7
2 Sep 18 KC 3 @ DET 48
3 Sep 25 KC 17 @ SD 20
9 Nov 06 MIA 31 @ KC 3
10 Nov 13 DEN 17 @ KC
11 Nov 21 KC 3 @ NE 34
12 Nov 27 PIT 13 @ KC 9
13 Dec 04 KC 10 @ CHI 3
14 Dec 11 KC 10 @ NYJ
Mounting injuries take "SD" down: Now winning 3 in a row...
7 Oct 23 SD 21 @ NYJ 27
8 Oct 31 SD 20 @ KC 23
9 Nov 06 GB 45 @ SD 38
10 Nov 10 OAK 24 @ SD 17
11 Nov 20 SD 20 @ CHI 31
12 Nov 27 DEN 16 @ SD 13
Indy...Losing their entire season after the loss of Manning until posting a win this week...
Minn...Basically lost their entire season without a healthy "QB" and "AP"...
But Damn those Raider who had a 3 game slide due to the lack of "character, dedication and teamwork"...
Yikes!!...Are you suppose to be a Raider Fan???...This is the type of trash talking I would expect to read from a damn "Hater" NOT a fan!!!
PantyRaider...Shakin The Head In Disgust!!!/_
12:54 AM
Raider Fan: simply, does not mean cheering section, it means being pissed when potential is missed, and being there when it ain't.
It sure as hell doesn't mean pimping the gad damn Broncos!!!
You putrid Orange shows threw so Tebow yourself into the next fantasy!!!
7 wins? That's not success by any measure! The expectation (right from the top of the org down) has always been playoffs or bust. This season is no exception.
You guys make seven wins sound like the playoffs.
What's worse than our record is the way we've lost games this year, giving up huge comebacks to multiple teams.
The bar is low!
I'm counting on the Raiders to put everything they have on the field this Saturday, then again next Sunday, and make a run for the playoffs.
Anything less should be unacceptable to the players, coaches, organization, AND THE FANS!
If we don't make the playoffs, heads should roll.... players and coaches. Jobs are at stake! Or at least they should be.
“With Only 1 Out Of 9 On 3rd Dn How Confident Are You In Making A Play???
3-3-DET 48 (2:32) (Shotgun) 3-C.Palmer pass incomplete deep right to 81-C.Schilens.
So time is short…Your only up by 6…Your on Detroit’s 48…Too far for a “FG”…Their “D” is Max-Protect for anything within 5 yds…You have consistently failed in this situation this entire game against their “D”…”
Panty,
First you are cherry picking the one play and asking about my confidence in getting a first down when you are 1 for 9. The previous five plays Bush had run for 12, 3, 15, 5 and 2. And, that’s with the D expecting the run. Plus it forced Detroit to use a time out. It’s also very reasonable to assume the D is gassed and you have a fairly fresh 245 pound back who can move the pile. Add to that, you don’t stop the clock with a potential incomplete pass and Detroit is forced to use their final time out or let the clock run to the two minute warning.
There were plenty of options to pick up the first down and/or not stop the clock. Run a sweep, roll out with a run pass option. All kinds of options.
The last part of your scenario is not true. The Detroit corners were playing off all game. Palmer must have hit five or six slants. The short stuff was there all game long and the LB’s were playing up on the line to stop the run at that point.
There is also the wasted timeout in the first quarter that resulted in an incomplete pass on fourth down. Kick the field goal. Save the TO for the end of the half and maybe we get a TD instead of a field goal.
We are always geniuses in hindsight, but there was a pattern there that didn’t leave me with a good feeling even though Detroit had to go 99.
The defense had come through with stops against Houston and San Diego. I think it was time for the offense to impose their will on another team. You do that by making first downs and their offense has to watch the clock run out from the bench.
Also, how confident are you when he missed a wide open receiver in the first quarter? I go for the three yards and let the opposition defense go into panic mode. Plus, I've drafted the two guys on the left side of the line for these types of situations. So I can impose my will on the opposition.
Good points Calico.
Last year we were 3-2 in December, averaging 31 points per game with Bush going for over 130 in the final. Then we fired the coach. This year we are 0-3 so far and averaging 19. Make up your own mind but it doesn’t sound like progress to me.
H
CJ said, "Improvement for 2012 is a healthy roster, Carson Palmer utilizing a highly talented group of skill players, and a defense deployed by a competent DC."
Well, lets break this down with #1.
Health; this means we are going to have to trade Bush for a quality RB that can help take the load off McFadden (who hasn't had one complete season with us); someone that would give us the Garner/Wheatley type combo. I like what they've done in B-more with Rice and Rickey Williams.
Louis Murphy, Jacoby Ford, and Chaz Shilens are the WRs who haven't finished a season. Same thing, time to get competent people around them. For all the grief, Heyward-Bey is the only one who has completed every season he's been with us (so far).
#2-I don't doubt Palmer's ability to do that. He's a terrific QB, and highly underrated in a time with Brady, Manning, Brees, Rodgers, and Rothlesberger.
#3-A competent DC. I like Del Rio in this spot. John Fox runs a similar D, and look what he's done in Denver. I think Del Rio could do the same. Hue needs to give up control of the offensive playcalling. Give it completely to Saunders, or get someone else. Anyone think Callahan will come back? I wonder if Al is in heaven thinking, "Should've hired Jim Harbaugh...."
Just prove it, BABY!
Nate,
Problem is we can't trade Bush. He will be a UFA this year.
If we are going to wish for something, here's mine. No one will bite on it, but at least make the offer. Take McFadden, our second round pick and one other player. Offer it up to one of the top five picking teams. Probably the number three pickers.
Take Trent Richardson. He's tough, fast and strong. Hard to tackle and can make you miss. Good receiver out of the backfield and has only fumbled once in close to 600 carries. Did not miss a game in college, if memory serves. He might be the best back to come out of college in the last 10 years, at least since Adrian Peterson.
If you're going to dream, dream big.
H
"H"...
You are correct about this..
"The previous five plays Bush had run for 12, 3, 15, 5 and 2."
The pattern was decreasing...When the Raiders got to mid field the Lions began to crowd the box and dare us to win threw the air and risk stopping the clock...So it was at this time that they were in "Max-Protect" for anything within 5 yds...Prior to this they were playing the run but also the pass so didn't have 8 in the box...
Part of this is based upon what was being said in the booth...Then Lions played up to stop our run because they couldn't stop us otherwise and we would run out the clock...
They wanted us to throw..We ran once more for only 2 yds on 2nd -n- 5...Than it became questionable if we could gain 3 on 3rd-n-3?...
Palmer saw that opening and pulled the trigger...The play was right for the situation as evident in how wide open Chaz was...The execution was off and that's also documented...
I'm just noting what Hue saw and what Palmer saw...I'm not arguing what would have been the best play...Just what was going threw their minds at the time and that I don't have a problem with their aggression...
For the past couple weeks all I have seen is crap about Hue being too conservative and running Bush up the gut..up the gut...up the gut when it's not working...Now he gets creative and it's bash time again...I don't get it...
We played this exact play in the same situation and won with it this season...Vikes I think...
Screen pass could have been dangerous with 8 in the box if they don't bite...End Around or Reverse could potentially lose yds...Sweeps and runs up the middle with 8 in the box are difficult...But maybe Play Action Flea Flicker or Bush Half Back Pass would have been wide open as well...But here again execution is still the problem...
Fact is there is NO substantial evidence that any of those plays would have netted the 3 yds at that point in the game...There is indisputable Video evidence that what Hue dialed up was correct and wide open...
Tried to find Video of that play but don't see it...If you find it please let me know...
NFL.Network...
9:30 PM NFL REPLAY: DET vs. OAK
2:00 AM NFL REPLAY: DET vs. OAK
PantyRaider....I Will Watch It Again!!!/_
This comment has been removed by the author.
Wednesday:
2:30 PM NFL REPLAY: DET vs. OAK
Watch it here if you don't have the TV coverage:
http://www.firstrowsports.tv/sport/american-football.html?game=american-football
Season's over. Two takes.
Take one: We lost the Detroit game because of a combination of our defensive backfield injuries and Hue Jackson's brain fart (forgetting to call for a two point conversion after the last TD).
Take two: It's no longer too early to start talking about next season. My vote would be to bring everyone back possible (players and coaching staff) with the addition of a new GM (since our last one died) in order to give Jackson more time to focus on preparation.
I'd also do a serious evaluation of Raider physical training. For about four years in a row now our key skill players have been injured at critical times of the season. Why?!!! We can't blame it on the lack of off season because the players should be training on their own. We've also (as stated) had the SAME problem for several years.
What makes it even more frustrating is that these injuries should be preventable injuries because they've all been (with the exception of Campbell) NON CONTACT INJURIES. They have been ham string pulls and mid foot sprains - the types of things you get merely by running.
So it's either a matter of poor training or we have a bunch of China Dolls in our skill positions - magnificent, delicate craftsmanship that you are afraid to display for fear of breakage.
Wow! Most here are on to next year.
That's BS! It's time for the Raiders and their fans to stop crying and play out the season like it matters, because it does.
9-7 offers opportunity to potentially win the division or a wildcard.
2012 dream superbowl Raiders Niners... this year
Niners beat Pats. Green Bay and Pitt will fall. My guess... but yes... NY Raider... were done, sadly.
Panty,
The last couple of weeks we've been down by thirty. So that doesn't fit with last Sunday.
A guy is averaging over six yards in his last five carries, so we need to trick 'em. Three yards and we probably win the game. A field goal instead of going for it in the first quarter and we progably win the game. Calling a time out late in the game that wound up benefiting Detroit.
I seem to remember Cable being labled an idiot for doing one trick play. Now, it's ok for Jackson to totally mismanage a winable game attempting to "trick" the opposition?
No, Jackson has earned his criticism. He'll probably stay as HC. But, there's still a lot he needs to learn. If it had been second and three I wouldn't have had a problem with the call.
Also, things don't become questionable because of one play. A guy that averages five yards a carry doesn't get five every carry. He has a bunch for a lot less. My O-line has been performing well most of the game. I put it in their hands. Go out and block someone.
H
"NY Raider... were done, sadly."
I hope the players don't share that sentiment!
If so, why should any of us bother watching the last two games? Inform the players, coaches, NFL offices, Chargers, Chiefs, media...
The Raiders forfeit!
That's lame.
"That's BS! It's time for the Raiders and their fans to stop crying and play out the season like it matters, because it does."
Sure it does, but the team has just lost 3 in a row, 2 in blowouts and one with a ridiculous letdown that kills a team. Raiders now have to play 2 teams that are playing their best ball of the year. Of course we all want the Raiders to win both games, but the confidence in the team is at a season low. If the Raiders win these 2 games and make the playoffs, I'm sure all Raider fans will be the happiest fans in the NFL. BUT RIGHT NOW, it ain't looking so good and after 9 yrs of it, what do you expect?
JONES
Quick note on DHB. He has 51 catches for 775 yards. There is an outside shot at 60+ for 1,000. Low numbers for what you want from a #8 pick, but he's coming around.
The fumble hurt, but he was breaking tackles and getting yards after catch all game long.
H
Yep, we need to win these last two games. You never, ever throw in the towel. Hell, Indy beat the Thumb Tacks giving us a shot for wild card.
I'm just a little upset at the blown opportunity on Sunday. Big, big missed opportunity.
H
So it's time to fold? Really?!
2011 season has been filled with missed opportunities, but if the team isn't good enough to beat the Chiefs and the Chargers over the next two weeks, then what makes anyone here think they'll be good enough next year?
This pattern has to stop. It's time to finish a game (and a season) the right way. No excuses!
Gut check time for EVERYBODY!
Who is folding...we are still here. We all want them to win, but recent history and the way the team is playing makes EVERYONE wonder if they really have a chance. The TEAM are the ones who have to make it happen, it doesn't really matter what you are I or anyone else writes on this site, it will have no consequence on the field. It's gut check for the team, the fans have shown their guts by hanging in with this team for years of poor product. The fans should not be in question, this is on the team. The team has to step up, not the fans.
JONES
SCAR
You got it NYR....Gut check time for everybody!!
I talked to a chiefs friend yesterday,and that guy was talking all kinds of scenarios about how the Chiefs could get in. GUT check time Raiders...Any given sunday is a cliche that is not tired. Raiders win out, Chiefs beat the Broncos and we are in.
I was ready to burn jersey for about 36 hours after sundays loss, but this thing aint over yet.
SCAR
...not lame... jusy a prediction... hope Im wrong! but I think im right... lets see. Win out.
Besides the addition by subtraction of Bresnehan, I'm not sure how optimistic I can be about our defense, which largely stinks.
Our draft selections will be limited. I'm still waiting for Seymour, Huff, Routt, Kelly, McClain and Co. take us to the next level. They all shine at times, but collectively they aren't getting it done. There are just too many breakdowns and brain farts, and I'm not sure how much of that can be blamed on our DC.
It was hard to watch the Niners last night show such toughness, decisiveness and discipline.
What's it going to take?
Jones -
Sure, it's up to the team, but I disagree about it not being time for fans to gut check. You can be sure Arrowhead Stadium will be screaming with Chiefs fans on Saturday, as SCAR implies.
Raiders fans need to be on call Jan 1st for their loudest presence in nine years. I wish I could be there but it's not doable.
No time for this "woe is me (the fans)" shit.
I'm pissed off about Sunday, but I'm putting it behind me until the fat lady is done singing.
I don't carry any false optimism that the Raiders will suddenly become a better team on Saturday; only that they leave everything they have on the playing field.
They wanted to win Sunday (and could have) but we were all let down by the coaches and playcalling.
Coaches can rally too.
...sadly, brothers, many of you are Raider Addicts, Win Junkies, and/or downright blind. Fortunately, you have a safe haven for correction, not rejection, in this wonderful intervention called Raider Take. RT, Merry Christmas and Happy Howlingdays over the next few weeks... its beginning to look a lot like last year(s)! Cheers and thanks to you, Take. OTB
"No time for this "woe is me (the fans)" shit."
Is this Jethro or NYR? The fans have sold out the year, what else do you want? There is no "woe is me shit", it's calling a spade a spade, the team has had 3 crushing defeats, it's the team we should all be worried about, not the fans. The fans have been waiting for 9 years, when the team showed up for the last 2 years, the fans responded and showed the support. Raider fans have the guts, does the team?
JONES
For one thing, it will take a DC. As much as I like Jack del Rio, he would only be here for a year or two. He wants a HC gig.
Winston Moss understands the 3-4. We have personnel who might fit better in that scheme. Wimbley, McClain, Seymour and maybe a few others. Reggie McKinze also wants to be a GM. Maybe we can raid the Cheeseheads and get t package deal.
Moss has the words "assistant head coach" in his title even though he's not the DC. Not sure, but I believe it means we have to have the Packers permission to be in the same room with him.
In the mean time lets win these next two games and see what happens.
H
"What's it going to take?"
What made SF what they are today? They get a high quality HC and maybe it takes them there? Hello? Harbaugh has made a huge difference, imagine the Raiders with a top HC/DC = they win the division.
JONES
As Corkran said, Sunday was probably the most meaningful loss in nine years. That game hurt, for sure. But I'm not done, and I don't think the Raiders are either.
Chiefs/Chargers! In that order. We swept both last year and we should have beaten the Chiefs earlier this year.
I don't expect the Raiders to change colors, I only expect them to lay it ALL down on gameday.
9-7 is doable, and so is the Raiders making the playoffs.
Man, what a bunch of defeatists.
We can talk about cleaning house later.
Is Tebow holding any motivational seminars over the off-season? Maybe the Raiders could attend.
I've seen this comment on a few boards and here so I am looking for clarity. Forgive the ignorance if I am incorrect.
My first response when Jackson did not go for two after the defensive TD was why! I was then hoping to hear the commentators note something about it or give any explanation why you would not go for two in that situation. Crickets.
Since I have seen nothing on this nor have I heard the question asked of Jackson, my only guess to the logic became that Jackson did not go for 2 because of the unsportsmanlike penalty on Curry. I did not pay attention to where Seabass hit the point after from. Does anyone know when the penalty would have been assessed if they were going for 2? Would the penalty have caused Jackson to have to kick the point after?
Blue Monday
hanks, OTB.
Blue, I thought the same thing immediately about the extra point. I think that the penalty is assessed on the kickoff, not the extra point or two-point conversion attempt. If so...
So you go up 13 instead of trying for 14 and possibly only being up by 12. This is with eight minutes left.
So here's the deal. If you're up by 12, the Lions would have to score two touchdowns to win, same as being up by 13 (which they did). Or they have to score one touchdown and two field goals to win, which would require three possessions (all scoring possessions) within less than eight minutes.
In other words, it was a HORRIBLE decision by Jackson that cost us a chance to win the game in overtime.
I recall while listening to to the Miami game, Greg Papa noting that Jackson called a time out to take more time to review a play that he was possibly going to challenge. Of course, you lose a time out if you lose the challenge anyway, so it was a poor decision. Don't know if I heard it right, but that's what it sounded like.
These are rookie HC mistakes, and that last one cost us.
His answer makes no sense in the context of the game, with less than eight minutes remaining. He says he figures there's no way the Lions are going to score 13 points, so he makes a decision that favors the possibility of the Lions scoring on three possessions with less than eight minutes to go:
Q: Did you think about going for two instead of the extra-point folloinwg your last touchdown?
Jackson: Honestly, I looked at it and at that time we were up by 13 and I thought you know 13, seven minutes, we’ve got a chance to get the ball. I figured there’s no way this team’s going to score 13 points. You know you look back at it now, maybe that’s a decision you could of did differently. But at the time, it wasn’t, I felt very comfortable where our team was being 13 up. Let’s kick it, let’s go in. I think the rhythm, the team was excited, the Special teams unit was out there. I was talking to the defensive coaches to get a stop, make sure we slow this team down, that’s where my head was. Not that I wasn’t into the game, or thinking about well should we be up 14, should we be up 13. I just felt very comfortable if we kick it, let’s go play defense, get this ball back three and out, let’s go.
"I don't expect the Raiders to change colors, I only expect them to lay it ALL down on gameday."
Are you trying for 'fan of the year' award? I have seen 2 posters say that the season is done and one of them is an alias of a certain someone trying to create a reaction. So to include everyone else as a "bunch of defeatists", your emotions running a little high NYR?
Talking about a new GM and what could be in the future for this franchise is not admitting the season is over. Saying the Raiders are in trouble because of the 3 demoralizing defeats in a row is not "throwing in the towel". It's up to the team, not the fans.
JONES
Thanks RT...I assumed I didn't know the rule on when the penalty would be assessed.
Jackson's decision and his answer are misguided at best, woefully ignorant at worse. Or maybe he just sucks at math.
Seems like a rather simple equation if you deploy some deductive reasoning. If you feel that there is no way a team is going to score 13 points, then certainly you should feel the same about 12. Given the "if" possibility, why not take that out of the equation.
I have no problem with the other offensive decisions like going for it on 4th down instead of kicking a field goal or a 3rd and 3 pass. If you make them, you win. This one however, is fundamentally flawed since if you fail to get the two points, you lose nothing.
Blue Monday
I'm in, and I'm still pulling for the Raiders to win the division; but the way we've played of late, Hue Jackson and company need to Just Prove It, Baby.
We all heard the talk early in the year, and we all got excited when they were backing it up. Now it's crunch time, and the wheels are falling off. It's time to put on the spares and hit the gas!
We pushed out big for Carson, and that was a bold as move as you can get, let's not wind up with an empty tank.
Anything less than Super Bowl is disappointing.
A record of 3-5 over the last eight games is a bad trend that needs to be reversed immediately. Playoffs or not, the Raiders need to notch a positive game or two to demonstrate that optimism is deserved heading into 2012.
Jackson's response that he didn't think the Lions could score 13 pts is ridiculous and grossly uninformed.
The Raiders proved early and often this season that no lead is safe.
Who is he kidding? He totally spaced out and neglected to make the obvious decision to go for two. It was a major brain fart.
Jones - between you and me, I'm just trying to keep my sanity. In reality, I can't believe the Raiders have blown so many winnable games (well, maybe I can).
Deep down, I'm hoping it was all a mistake and we can have a recount.
Denial is one of the early stages of insanity, right? ;]
Jeez... Win or lose the last two games and we are most likely done. When you put yourself in a position where you have to rely on sixteen other teams to lose, reality should begin to set in.
But why should that mean "throwing in the towel"? To my way of thinking, it is incumbent on this team to prove, more than ever, that they belong in the playoffs.
As Raider fans, we all fully support that effort. These guys need to prove they deserve to come back next year (coaches and players). But until the end of the season - they're Raiders and we have their backs.
That's the essence of Al Davis type loyalty. It goes both ways. The organization has been damn good to the fans in this year of loss. We give it back now, and in the off season.
I assert that if we would have swallowed hard and resigned Asum.. the Raiders would be looking EASILY at the playoffs right now.
The Buffalo and Det games would never had been losses with Asum and Routt locking down both sides.
CJohnson got butt-fucked the second half by Stevie Johnson (in Asum's spot on the field) and there would have been no need for the Tampa-2 with Asum on the field on Sunday.
9-5 would look pretty good right now, I'm thinking...
>>>>
nyraider said...
7 wins? That's not success by any measure!
>>>.
How many games were you predicting before the season started, NYR. Be honest... I am guessing 5 at most.
Jones prolly predicted 3-4 wins... if not TWO.
RT punted of course.
Just my guesses...
And the irony to end ALL ironies!! If the hated Al Davis was still alive the Tampa-2 would never had been used against Megatron in a million years.
Be careful what one wishes for it seems!!
lemme ask you guys this:
let's assume we get a GM...
if we go 9-7 (a winning record but miss out on the playoffs) hue stays right? based on the 1st winning record in a bazillion years.
if we go 8-8 or even 7-9 NOW does hue stay? hmmmm...
to me, as nate said, anything less than the superbowl is unacceptable, especially with that expensive palmer trade. that ain't gonna happen so what now...
The Tampa 2? Since when does 'cover 2' employ the MLB to be the deep cover on the #1 WR? Ole man Kiffin would laugh at your assertion that it was the Tampa 2...you 2 stooges are very dumb. As far as my prediction in preseason...I wrote it clear as day earlier in this group of posts. Freakin clueless....IF the Raiders end up with 7 or wins and miss the playoffs, you will be content with that? Dumb diddly doooo.
JONES
I'm tired of the finger-wagging marms of the School of Perpetual Tolerance who return here each December, defining success by the measure of painfully incremental progress that is on the verge of reaching a decade without reaching the playoffs.
Thank you.
"How many games were you predicting before the season started, NYR. Be honest... I am guessing 5 at most."
Gary, I was upset that Cable was let go after ascending to 8-8. The barometer for 2011 was always to exceed Cable's best results. Otherwise, what the hell was the point of letting him go?
That's common sense.
My expectation from the start of 2011 was playoffs! No matter the record.
The Raiders still have a chance, so, unlike some folks, I'm not throwing in the towel.
That doesn't mean I'm not pissed off at the lackluster performance and coaching of late. I'm actually more pissed off than ever. My hope is that the Raiders are too. That's what I'm counting on right now. It's all I have.
I'll add my vote on what my expectations were for this year - playoffs and at least a 9-7 record.
Agree also that Hue Jax made a coaching mistake in not going for the two. His explanation makes no sense, other than the read-between-the-lines part where he basically says he forgot.
I also remember that comment in the Miami game - you don't call a time out for a review. They're not looking at the play upstairs unless the game is in the last 2 minutes. You have to throw the flag.
Many have been pointing to the missed passes to Moore and Schilens and the DHB drop and fumble, but what about the whiff on the QB by McClain on the 4th down play? He was keying on him and plain missed him and he's no Michael Vick. Game would have been essentially over. McClain's performance and off field antics have disappointed me more than anything this season. Hope we see dramatic improvement on both play and attitude from him his third year, like McFadden, but right now looks sorta like a bust.
>>>>
My expectation from the start of 2011 was playoffs! No matter the record.
>>>
You are playing games. Expectations and predictions are two different things.. and as one of the leaders of the gloom and doom "IAAFers" I would be amazed if you actually predicted anything close to the playoffs.
That said.. congrats on losing the gloom and doom.
Your posts are no longer insufferable to read.
Keep up the good work!
As a charter member of the School of Perpetual Tolerance, I have no problem with a team that lost its MVP RB, and its QB after 6 games and is STILL in the playoff hunt... I have yet to see anything you type here that makes me think I shouldn't be tolerant of it.
BTW... how well has Chicago been doing since their QB and top RB went down, Bubs?
And they even possess a top rated defense yet!
Address these issues RT.
Or just continue being intolerant of all things Raiders (to the point I bet he doesn't even watch the games anymore.)
JONES... you keep avoiding an obvious question... what was your PREDICTION before the season started.
If it was less than 7 wins (which is what anyone reading his posts over the years would suspect) then why are you here bitching. moaning, and whining?
They already surpassed your wildest speculations!
Psstt... the MLB would be in charge of covering a WR in his "zone" in the middle of the field, along with the free safety.
Those were the two people covering Megatron.
If he were on the sidelines, he would have been covered by a CB.
Now go suck your thumb in the corner.
Oh dumb diddly dooo.....The Raiders gave up a possible 2 1st rd picks to stay in the playoff hunt. The Offense hasn't been the problem, so setting the blame or EXCUSE that an injured Offense is the reason for the Raiders 'slump' of 9 yrs is void. The ONLY reason why the Raiders are even mentioned as a playoff contender is because the AFC West is pathetic. Any other division and they aren't even close. Here comes the 'crew' and we start all over again....some things never change.
JONES
Nice comparison of Carson Palmer to Caleb Hanie, and Michael Bush to Kahlil Bell. Well done. Maybe when Bush leaves, we can replace him with Bell, and then give up two first rounders for Hanie if Palmer goes down.
PSSST, in 'Cover2' the MLB does not have the zone of 40-50 yrds deep over the middle. 2nd, who's moaning and bitching? I have stated the case for a GM and what that GM will probably want if hired. If anyone is bitching, that would be you, complaining cause people are coming to grips of another probable lost season. 3rd, can't you read? I told you I already posted what my prediction was in a convo with 'Roy'. Dumb Diddly Dooo strikes again, good job, Gary. You keep your place at the top of the dumbass club.
JONES
The Raiders last 2 games are TREMENDOUS opportunities on many levels.
First, the obvious: Playoff contention.
If the Raiders win the last 2 games and finish up at 9-7, there are 2 distinct avenues to reach the playoffs as a divisional winner or Wild Card entrant.
Divisional Winner:
Raiders win AFCW outright with 2 wins and 2 Donkey losses.
Raiders win AFCW tiebreaker with 2 wins and a Donkey loss to Chiefs.
Wild Card Winner:
Raiders win 6th and final wild card entry with 2 wins and a combination of complicated results transpire.
Basically, you've got 4 teams fighting for 1 WC spot.
NYJ (8-6) play NYG and MIA; we need 1 loss (we beat the Jets) or 2 losses
Cincy (8-6) play ARZ and Balt; we need 2 losses; common opponents come into play with 1 loss and my brain is too fried to check it out.
Tenn (7-7) play JAX and HOU; 1 loss to either opponent
Oak (7-7) wins over KC and SD
Second, these games are an important benchmark in terms of finally having a winning record.
Third, we need to end the losing streak immediately. 2 losses becoming 3 losses to 4 losses ... next thing you know we close out the 2011 season with 5 consecutive losses and a LOSING season.
Fourth, IMO, the majority of players are likely to return in 2012. Finishing the season strong establishes a higher base line of expectations for 2012. To not make it to the playoffs is disappointing but throwing in the towel would be a poor reflection of the leadership and character of the team.
Fifth, the fans have done their part (7 consecutive sellouts) and the Raiders players and coaches needs to "pay" back the loyal fans with a spirited, balls to the wall, final 2 game push.
6th, and I hate to bring this up BUT, going out with a whimper is the ultimate dishonoring of Al Davis' memory. It is NOT the Raider way to roll over and wave the white flag under ANY circumstances.
"H"...
I was wrong...The lions were already crowding the box well before that last 1st dn and we ran the ball to the left on them...The short carry for only 2 yds was up the middle to the right...So apparently we could have gotten the 3 on 3rd -n- 3 to the left running it...
But still that pass to a wide open Chaz was beautiful and caught them totally by surprise...Off his hands and should have been caught!!!
PantyRaider...Next Time!!/_
Re-watching this game there were several blown calls...
RE: Stafford to Megatron deep seam route for a 48 yards
To 'cover' arguably the best WR in the NFL with a MLB and 3rd string safety is nothing short of negligent on the part of our DC. Using a cover corner (ie. Routt) and a better coverage safety (ie. Branch) is the obvious solution. Routt has the closing speed to stay with Megatron and you have Branch playing deep center field which would normally be handled by Huff.
Asking a MLB to run 40 yards down field and a safety who rarely is on the field besides special teams duties is embarrassing.
Simple Logic: Keep everything in front of you. Pay special attention to Megatron. Force another WR to beat you. Give the Lions short passes to eat up precious time on the clock.
Gaining 48 yards of real estate on 1 play is inexcusable.
Playoffs... Playoffs? We can't even hold our own for 90 seconds! You guys need to reality check... The 2012 Raiders will be what they will because of the offseason, NOT the next two games! Were banged up, in transition, and the playoffs mean NOTHING. Only a SB WIN will EVER matter, I am sick and tired of the pic with three trophies. Cobwebs in the attic, forget nostalgia. 2012 raiders with Palmer look great, i am already happy with the lessons learned. Thank you Oakland Raiders... I'll give you a B minus because you managed to improve.
OTB hath spoken.
:)
OTB hath spoken.
And that is the problem! LOL!
Indulge me in offering my counter-point to this gibberish.
"Playoffs... Playoffs? We can't even hold our own for 90 seconds! You guys need to reality check..."
Yes, Playoffs, Playoffs. Newsflash to OTB. Reaching the playoffs is step 1 in reaching the ultimate goal, becoming SB Champions.
Your chancing of becoming SB Champ if you don't reach the playoffs is 0%. Reaching the playoffs gives ANY team a chance regardless of seed. Further, you need to climb the competitive ladder to reach greatness.
Step 1: Earn a playoff spot
Step 2: Win in the playoffs
Step 3: Become a SB caliber team
Step 4: Hoist the Lombardi Trophy
"The 2012 Raiders will be what they will because of the offseason, NOT the next two games!"
How do you build on a foundation of success without success? Which would you rather be going into 2012, a team that showed character and finished with a winning record, their heads held up high or a team that closed up shop and crawled into a hole and finished with 5 consecutive losses?
"Were banged up, in transition, and the playoffs mean NOTHING."
Excuses and poppycock BS. If you don't think beating 2 divisional foes and reaching the playoffsO has an meaning than you need to pick another hobby.
Bottom Line: Reaching the playoffs is in fact an accomplishment and something to be proud about. Of 32 teams, only 12 qualify for the playoffs. We have not been inthe playoffs since 2002. It is time to take positive steps forward and earning a playoff spot is 1 step in the right direction regardless of whether or not we win the SB.
"Only a SB WIN will EVER matter, I am sick and tired of the pic with three trophies. Cobwebs in the attic, forget nostalgia."
Yes, I agree that the ultimate goal is to win the SB. I honestly believe that to reach that goal we need to make incremental progress.
There are no short cuts to success. The outlook for 2012 does look bright but if you don't think what happens in 2011 and the last 2 games has any bearing on 2012, you are only kidding yourself. Players and coaches are being evaluated and jobs are on the line. The NFL is a cut-throat, ultra competitive league where performance and results dictate everything.
Panty, lets not get all emotional. When the trend of win one lose one plays out this season, likely, we will go into the offseason with renewed swagger and kick ass all over again next year. Betcha.
Success breeds success. Give the players a taste of the playoffs and they will want more next year.
Tenured Raiders players have never been in a playoff race this late in the season. It's time to put a foot on the gas, not the brake!
Dump these last two games and send them home with their collective tails between their legs and it's same ol' same ol'... just another lost season and a wasted decade.
If you don't think the Raiders are capable of beating the Chiefs and the Chargers to end this season, what makes you think they will beat them next year?
The season has come down to these last two games, and folks are packing up like that's not good enough... when, really, it's the best we've had for nine years.
Wake up!
Obviously, some fans have decided to check out, but Raiders players need to be reminded that this is the last chapter in the legacy of a football legend.
This comment has been removed by the author.
Hue Jackson is described as a "River Boat Gambler." But, as Kenny Rogers once sang, "You've gotta know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away, know when to run."
Jackson also said on the coverage of Calvin Johnson late in the game, the it wasn't the scheme. McClain just has to make the play.
That's confusing. Your MLB covering a 6' 4" pro bowl wide receiver, who runs about a 4.3 forty and has a 40 inch verticle, the length of the field backed up by, not your best cover safety, but your run support safety. With the game on the line. After thinking about it, I'm still confused.
Two teams fighting for a playoff spot. Jackson had a chance to "out coach" the guy on the other side of the field. He didn't. The team deserved better.
By the way, we are a 2.5 favorite in KC.
H
Panty,
Yes, Chaz was open. It was a bad throw. Chaz was stretched out and the ball went off his finger tips.
Palmer, by his own admission, did not put enough air under the ball. He says he delivered the ball too fast. The receiver did not have enough time to adjust to it.
Even an unsuccessful run would have depleted the clock more.
Let's agree they were putting 7-8 in the box. Fine. The 5 yard slant is wide open and a much higher percentage. I seem to recall DHB's TD was about 8-15 over the middle with yards after the catch.
You get the first down, a couple more positive plays and you've run time off the clock AND you are well within Janikowski's range.
What's the use in building a bully if you're just going to go out and try and trick 'em all game long.
I'm just saying there was a more common sense approach, with more options. Hue Jackson decided on All or Nothing. He got Nothing. Twice.
H
Panty,
Yeah, that's why I was screaming at the TV. I just didn't understand some of the decisions.
Just run behind your two best linemem. If they stop you, they stop you. But, at least you force them to stop the clock. Don't do it for them.
For me that was the most frustrating game of the year.
H
>>>>
JONES said...
PSSST, in 'Cover2' the MLB does not have the zone of 40-50 yrds deep over the middle. 2nd, who's moaning and bitching?
>>>>
You seem to be alone in thinking that was anything BUT Cover 2 in that situation.
http://tinyurl.com/cnxy7ef
Why don't you just admit you don't know what you are talking about and move along...
...quote....
What has many observers scratching their heads was not necessarily the call to put the Raiders in a "Tampa-2" zone defense during the Lions' game-winning drive, which took all of 95 seconds. But going into that defense with the limited personnel at the Raiders' disposal.
Would you want the lumbering Rolando McClain dropping 40 yards deep into coverage on Calvin Johnson with the middle linebacker depending upon the inexperienced Jerome Boyd to come over the top on Megatron?
That's what happened, what with Michael Huff inactive due to a strained hamstring.
And while Matthew Stafford launched a ball that hung in the air like a Shane Lechler punt, neither McClain nor Boyd made a play on the ball; they both made plays on Johnson, who came back to the underthrown pass and caught it from his keister for a 48-yard pickup to the Oakland 13-yard line as both Raiders looked on.
...end quote...
NY Raider,
Nobody is packing it in. What you fail to mention is that even if we win our last two games we don't get in the playoffs. We need other teams to lose. This is out of our control.
I, like all Raider fans, desperately want to win our last two games. I want the playoffs even worse, however, that is no longer in our control. After a crushing loss at the end of the season, it is nice to focus on the positive future I think we have.
Also, for everyone bashing Jackson for throwing it on third and 3, I LOVED that call. No need to play scared or play not to lose. The extra time from the run play would not have meant anything. They scored with time to spare. If Palmer makes that throw, the game is over and our momentum is HUGE.
Roy
Oh dumb didddlllyy doooo....you believe that a 'MEDIOT' knows what the Tampa 2 is? A guy who has never played? That is your 'proof'? HILARIOUS. AS I mentioned earlier, McClain was seen in the same coverage in a Gm vs the Jets earlier this year. He had a WR some 40 yrds downfield, covering him, one on one in 'prevent' Defense. It's the Raider 'prevent' scheme, it's not the Tampa 2 and it isn't because they were out of safeties. Just because a 'reporter' wrote it, doesn't mean that it is....You say I should admit I don't know...and here you are using a 'reporter' as YOUR proof. You are a clown, get in the car with Jethro and drive, just drive and keep driving far away.
JONES
"If you don't think the Raiders are capable of beating the Chiefs and the Chargers to end this season, what makes you think they will beat them next year?"
Again, momentum...SD and KC are on an upswing, the Raiders are slipping. It could all change next yr or even this week, it will be a new yr next yr and HOPEFULLY the Raiders will have improved starting at the Front Office. As you can see, a strong F.O. can change a team quickly.
Why do you keep saying that everyone has thrown in the towel? Yes the Raiders have a chance and we all want them in the playoffs, but the odds are saying it's slim. This yr IS NOT good enough, having to depend on other teams to get you in when playing in the worst division in the league...the bar is low.
JONES
>>>>
Oh dumb didddlllyy doooo....you believe that a 'MEDIOT' knows what the Tampa 2 is?
>>>>
So if it wasn't cover 2, what cover was it? M2m prevent would still had a CB on him. The simple fact that he didn't have a CB on him would lead most normal people to believe they were in zone defense... the "prevent" is usually just a term for how many linemen are rushing the QB (Usually 3...football 101)... it has nothing to do with whether it was zone of M2M coverage.
Jesus you wear me out. You remind me of a rightie in the political notestreams.
...anything but admit you are WRONG about something... right JONES??
Watch Jones jump through hoops for me again... good doggie... roll over...
Here you go Little Boy Jones:
...quote...
The defense is similar to a Cover 2 defense, except the middle linebacker drops into a deep middle coverage for a Cover 3 when he reads a pass play.
...end quote...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampa_2
Jesus... stoopid kids.
if you lost the last two games wouldnt you be hungrier? dome of you guys know how to wear the fan jersey but may never have worn the competitor jersey. you cant keep a winners heart down. ingest that... its Lombardi 101.
Jones -
Sifting through comments on this thread there seems to more than one or two that strongly imply giving up on this year.
I get the frustrations by everybody. Some haven't given up, per sae, but they hope to be pleasantly surprised by improbable Raider wins... which sounds suspiciously the same to me, but, whatever.
I guess my attitude is more urgent in that I expect the Raiders to make good this year.
And yes, Roy, I know the Raiders need help. It's not an oversight.
9-7 gets us out of a nine-year funk and gives us a chance for the playoffs.
Honestly, anything less should be unacceptable. If this season yields 7-9, or even 8-8, Jackson should be looking for work.
Enough of the "oh well, there's always next year" attitudes.
OTB said: "if you lost the last two games wouldnt you be hungrier?"
Really? Has losing over the past nine years made the Raiders any hungrier?
You've been hanging out with Gary, right? Next thing you'll tell us is the Raiders should intentionally blow the last two games so they place higher in the draft.
Unfortunately, we barely own any of our own draft picks... all the more reason the time is now.
Roy,
A three yard run for a first down accomplishes the same thing.
Being a "bully", as Jackson says, means imposing your will. That is not playing scared.
We used to come here had complain that we didn't have a back that we could use to "close out" a game. One where we could put the game on his shoulders and dare the defense to stop us.
Well, now we do and we don't use him. And, we're all excited because we threw a 40 yard incompletion? Something doesn't compute here.
So, I want to get this straight. Running out the clock is "not" playing to win?
H
nope just a reality check for those in the ether... again I hope Im wrong! Win Out!... but lets keep our brains... like the rest of the West.
...winning all the division games last yr shoulda done it by your "winnung formula"... which is Weak Sauce.
So Gary pulls the "your my lapdog" card, gee, how original and juvenile.
You tell me GARRY, what other team in the NFL would have the MLB deep coverage responsibilty in that situation? Only an idiot would believe that prevent/zone coverage, in the last minute of a gm, has the MLB responsible for deep middle, unless it is on the Raiders.
It's ridiculous that McClain was put in that situation, Flores couldn't believe it and either could I. Let me remind you, only an idiot would think that McClain should have that assignment.
If you claim to know football, gary, why in the hell are you searching 'Wiki' for your information? And if you didn't notice, by your own copy and paste statement, IF the MLB takes deep middle, it's a Cover 3 = is that the 'Tampa 2'? so either way.... guess where that leaves you, gary? On dumbass street once again....keep going.
JONES
What amazes me is how many times will a HC (specifically, a Raiders' HC) stratch his head and wonder why some type of prevent defense didn't work.
Up 13, Jackson thought he had the game in the bag with over 7 minutes left. Even with a 2 pt conversion, the game would have tied and gone into OT.
Meanwhile, McClain is a liability in coverage. So why put him on the best WR in football? What sane person does that? (I know I'm repeating what H and others have said, but I still can't believe it!)
I went to your Wiki site and it had this as the explanation...Gary, forgot a little something in his quote, another deceiver, see where it says the team lines up in a 4-3, were the Raiders in a 4-3 during the play that McClain was left in nowhereville?
http://www.detroitlions. com/media-center/videos/GameDay -Lions-vs-Raiders- highlights/ 4c1e21ac-7f6c-4030-9b1a- 8005d0419137 remove the spaces.
"The Tampa 2 is typically employed out of a 4-3 defensive alignment, which consists of four linemen, three linebackers, two cornerbacks, and two safeties. The defense is similar to a Cover 2 defense, except the middle linebacker drops into a deep middle coverage for a Cover 3 when he reads a pass play."[1].... So Gary, you took it out of context to fit his Bullshit. Ya clown.
"The personnel used in the Tampa 2 are specific in position and required abilities. All positions in this defense place a premium on speed, and often the result is that they are all undersized by league standards. The defensive linemen in this scheme have to be quick and agile enough to create pressure on the quarterback without the aid of a blitz from either the linebackers or the secondary, with the defensive tackle in the nose position having above-average tackling skills to help stop runs.
The three linebackers, two cornerbacks and two safeties are responsible for covering the middle of the field. The outside linebackers' general zone is between the cornerbacks, covering the area of the field from the line of scrimmage to 10 yards back. The middle linebacker must have better-than-average speed, and additional skills to be able to read the play and either maintain his central position to help the outside linebackers cover short passes, drop behind the linebackers in coverage and protect the zone of the field behind the outside linebackers from 11-20 yards out, or run up to the line of scrimmage to help assist in stopping the runs. “It takes a special linebacker to do that, a guy with speed,” ...
What the Raiders ran, was not the Tampa 2, it was not a 4-3 alignment. You can see Mclain took off deep as fast as he could as the ball was snapped, what NFL team requires the MLB to do this in a prevent? It's insane, and so is Gary.
JONES
H,
The problem with believing that a run would have been better is that the Lions were able to score so quickly. The only difference would have been we would not have had enough time to even attempt the 65 yard field goal.
NY Raider,
So you believe if we go 8-8 Jackson should get fired? No thanks! I have seen how firing a coach every year end up. A coach should get three years, this gives the players time to learn the system, time for him to get his players and a large enough body of work to be judged fairly.
Let's try a little stability. Hue did not even have an offseason. He has accomplished an awful lot IMO. He is a rookie and a damn good one at that. I feel very minty fresh about the future.
Roy
>>>>
What the Raiders ran, was not the Tampa 2, it was not a 4-3 alignment.
>>>>>
Now Jones claims we are a 3-4 team?
>>>>
You can see Mclain took off deep as fast as he could as the ball was snapped, what NFL team requires the MLB to do this in a prevent?
>>>>
All that are employing the Tampa 2 on a long passing play.
>>>>
It's insane, and so is Gary.
>>>>
You got anymore fairy dust you want to shovel on this, JONES?
It was called the Tampa 2 by a journalist I quoted, I then provided a quote identifying the MLB dropping back in passing plays after you JUST GOT DONE saying the MLB doesn't drop in a Tampa-2.
You would make a great Usenet rightie... when proven wrong you spin like a top, and then declare victory!
At any rate... I am done with you, Little Boy, as usual... your posts will be the first ones ignored.. congrats.
[plonk]
>>>>
Roy:
H,
The problem with believing that a run would have been better is that the Lions were able to score so quickly. The only difference would have been we would not have had enough time to even attempt the 65 yard field goal.
>>>>
Thats a great point... in fact I was saying "Let them score" right after Megatron caught the long ball against our Tampa 2.
If H-B hadn't dropped that last pass... Jano would have been kicking a what. 54 yarder?
He could make that in his sleep.
I'd blame H-B for the drop, and Palmer for the two missed passes before I blame Jackson for aggressive play calling.
This team needs to learn to make those plays... would anyone be second guessing Bellichick for making those calls?
He's been doing stuff like that for a decade. Its called TRUST.
So what if a 'journalist' said it was a tampa 2. If you look at the film, you see they were not in a 3-4 or a 4-3....proof is in the vid, try watching it instead of using some 'journalists' word for it. The Safety's stayed underneath and McClain took off deep, McClain was the only LB in the 'prevent', that is not a Tampa 2, get over it. Go back to Wiki and try again, now it's over.
JONES
Roy and Gary,
You guys missed my whole point. We had just run five running plays for 37 yards. 32 of that came running behind Veldheer and Wisniewski on three plays. The defense was gassed.
A first down forces Detroit to use it's last time out, then there's the two minute warning. If we don't pick up another first down Detroit gets the ball back with about 45 seconds and zero time outs.
The incomplete pass gave them the ball with 2:14 left, and the imcomplete pass constituted a free time out for them.
When you have the ball, the lead and it's late in the game, you keep the clock running.
Marion Barber ran out of bounds late in the Denver/Chicago game. That stopped the clock. Denver was out of time outs. Stopping the clock left enough time for Denver to get in field goal range. Denver tied the game and won in overtime.
If Detroit stops us, fine. But, I liked our chances of getting three yards behind Wiz and Vlad with Bush carrying the ball. Two first downs and we're taking a knee. If we can't get those first downs fine.
So, don't tell me that going for broke was the smart thing to do. Bad clock management by us and Chicago cost us two games in the standings.
Besides, what's the use in building a bully if you don't bully them. As optimistic as I am, I'm getting a little tired of the platitudes, with nothing to back them up.
H
"NY Raider,
So you believe if we go 8-8 Jackson should get fired? No thanks! I have seen how firing a coach every year end up."
I think Jackson should be judged on merit. These next two weeks, IMO, are critical in that regard.
While two wrongs don't make a right, I would agree that firing Jackson the way Cable was fired for going 8-8 doesn't make sense.
That said, this Raiders team may not be as good as last year's team. That falls on the coach.
Frankly, it's got to make Raiders fans sick to see what Harbough did in one year in SF, and to know that that level of coaching is out there but we've never solicited it.
I think these last two weeks are critical for the Raiders this year and moving forward.
IMO, if Jackson can rally this team to 9-7 (playoffs or not) he should remain and help set the direction of hiring a GM to work with.
This is the end of the season and the Raiders are in a playoff race. Jackson's been on the job all season and should be staging some of his best work right now.
Unfortunately, I believe what we are seeing is some of his worst effort to date.
Keeping Jackson as HC, adding a solid GM and DC, IMO, gives us the best chance to succeed in 2012 and beyond.
Tampa 2, Cover 3, prevent D ... pfffffft whatever. I'm not remotely pissed at McClain or Boyd. I'm over the moon angry with our DC who set up these guys and the team up to fail. How dare you be so GD negligent by tossing common sense out the window in such a critical moment in the game and in the season.
H:... I am not going to arm chair QB EVERYTHING here... yes, there were mistakes made on both sides of the ball.
I can live with the offense being TOO aggresive, I just don't get the PUSSY defense that Breshnahan calls over and over and over and over.. any time he gets a lead.
I thought I hated SOB... but Bresh is in a category all to himself.
Play to not lose.
Screw you...
JONES... shhhh adults are talking...
Does anyone know if John Madden is involved at all in this "proccess" of finding a GM ?
If he is, he must be way, way, back in the shadows.
I never hear a word from Madden.
I really wish big John would be more front and center about his involvment.
I said after Al Davis died, Raiders should give Madden a 2 year contract with mission to lead transition, and find GM.
It would have given the Raiders something they never seem to have. Clear Direction.
The Raiders need a GM sooner, then later.
Things happen fast after season. Evaluating current players, and coaches. Free agents, the draft.
Are the Raiders ready ? Are they getting ready ?
Or, as usual, will they be a mile behind.
If John Madden is doing things behind the scenes, I wish we fans could know about it.
We need Madden to come out from behind the curtain, and say a few words that would ease the Raider nation.
And if Madden is not invloved, we need to know that too.
Whats going on ? We need some answers.
I can live with aggressive playcalling within the context of a game.
I can live with failed execution by the players.
What I can't live with is highly paid coaches making the type of decisions that defies simple common sense and sound football logic.
...amazing how many here only post and copy/paste what other people say instead of just commenting on the game. I want to hear your take, not your take of a take, for goodness sake, back off Pirates! Yer cuttin' each other's throats, sorta like a football team we all like. Keel haul the whole buncha you skurvy dawgs. Arrgh. Get yer arses up in the crows nests, keep yer unpactched eye on the game and give a holler when you see somthin' reportable. Till then, shut yer infightin' yaps, ye sound like girls. OTB starboard side, avast, Injun Chiefs approachin' with fire in their eyes and cheese on their arrows.
PS... Calico Jack could replace Hue as coach in my book. (dont let that go to yer head, landlubber)
Gary,
“Screw you...”
And.
“JONES... shhhh adults are talking...”
Very adult of you.
Calico,
“How dare you be so GD negligent by tossing common sense out the window in such a critical moment in the game and in the season.”
That is how I feel about BOTH situations. Down, distance, score, time remaining. It was as if they decided since they couldn’t trick ‘em on offense, then they were going to trick ‘em on defense. They wont be expecting us to cover Johnson with McClain. I would have preferred to see McClain blitz on that one and not give Stafford time to breath.
On the two yard line. Why not send five or six. Even if you don’t sack him, you have an opportunity for holding in the end zone, which is a safety. We had two opportunities on the two to get to him.
This game was a waste of a lot of good effort on both sides of the ball. Points left on the field, time management, use of timeouts. All in all, not a good day for the coaching staff.
H
We can analyze all we want. Questionable play calling, passing up the field goal, Tampa 2, etc..
The fact is that our defense is just not very good.
Plain and simple.
Have there been issues with defensive scheme and or gameplan this year? Absolutely.
Could an elite defensive coordinator have gotten more out of THIS squad THIS year? I believe so, which is why there is no way in hell that Bresnahan comes back next year.
But at the most basic level, I just don't see any real difference makers out there on that side of the ball. There are very few offenses in the NFL with enough firepower to mask a below average defense.
I think with all the injuries we've had to deal with this year, (and it HAS been unbelievable) the loss of Matt Shaunessy may have been one of the biggest. I really hope that guy can come back next year and pick up where he left off.
It would be fantastic to win these last 2 games, get some help and make the playoffs. I REALLY hope it happens, but this team will never be what we want them to be until they make serious changes on the defensive side of the ball.
GO RAIDERS.
Why???...A "NT"??
12/19/2011 Signed NT Travis Ivey to practice squad
Hue talked about the 3-4 this week...
PantyRaider...As Long As It's Without "Suck-Chuck"!!!
JudasJones Your Such A Freakin PUTS!!
Go away!!...Adults are talking!!!
And NO way in hell your even close!!
You just couldn't wait to stir that pot again to get adversity going again after you LIAR comments about trying to befriend someone while pimping yourself as "Compassionate""....LoL!!...What a freaken JOKE!!!
Phoney as they come!!!
"Shut Up!!...Adults Are Talking"!!!
LoL!!!...
H said...
Gary,
“Screw you...”
Very adult of you.
>>>>>
Because I told Breshnahan "screw you?"
There's a lot worse things I could hypothetically say to him... considering he is a complete moron... and is almost single handidly keeping us from the playoffs. What DC handed the Buffalo and Det leads couldn't pull ONE of those games out?? I could honestly say there isn't anyone else in the NFL unable to do so. Agreed??
That said... you don't find JONES' trolling here childish?
The 2 stooges are just sad...I mean, just pathetically sad. Yo Jethro, why are you still visiting Charger sites and encouraging their fans? Are you still "pimping" tbought on the Donkies site? That's as far as I will respond to you 2 stooges....have fun boys/girls, whatever and where ever you are.
JONES
...anyone see that Texans mentdown? Hmmm, we're not alone, but at least they can realistically blame the Zebras.
Just an early thought on Saturday's game ...
I honestly believe that it boils down to whichever team is able to run the ball the most effectively and has the fewest turnovers wins.
"OTB"..
"at least they can realistically blame the Zebras."
As if we can't in several of our games??
LoL!!...Listen to that little baby cry!!!
Wha!!...Wha!!...Wha!!...I'm NOT Talking To You!!!
LIAR!!!...You can't help but stir that pot and with your ignorant damn stupid crap and reply-reply-reply---
SEE...YOUR DOING IT AGAIN!!!
Derick from Section 344....
I tend to disagree...We have seen this "D" even threw the injuries do some very fine things...Like the short yardage stand this week against the Lions...Like that game against "SD" with pressure so intense that Rivers was constantly under assault...The same we saw at times this week as we took the game out of the Lions hands and scored...
The huge problem has been inconsistency and adjustments...There simply are none!!..When they moved Johnson to the slot we nave adjusted and they did what they wanted to...Score 2 quick "TD" and take the game...Instead we played that "Tampa-2" which was dumb...And when it became apparent that bit was dumb why the hell did we stay in it???...Why the hell didn't we go back to what was working...Rushing their "QB"????
That's coaching and that's our "DC"...
These players can play the game...They can win...That's been shown...And they can lose with best of them...That's been shown also...How many 4th quarter breakdowns have we seen??..."Donkey" for example...That's more than just the players!!!...That's the coaching or lack of it..
PS!!...If this was just the scheme one would expect to see the same collapse consistently but that's just NOT the case...This Scheme works and has proven to at many intervals in several games before our "DC" goes south and goes away from what's working...
PantyRaider...Give Me A "D" That Never Lets Up!!!/_
Raiders wonder why Suh not penalized for removing helmet
Oakland Raiders coach Hue Jackson said Thursday that he asked the NFL why a penalty wasn't called on Lions defensive tackle Ndamukong Suh for removing his helmet after he blocked Sebastian Janikowski's 65-yard field-goal attempt as time expired in last weekend's 28-27 Detroit victory.
Players can be penalized 15 yards for removing their helmets on the field of play. That could have given Janikowski another field-goal try, this time from 50 yards.
But Jackson said league officials told him that the game was over when Suh removed his helmet, so no penalty was called.
"They had blown end of regulation," Jackson said. "... So it's like going to shake somebody's hand. But it looked like it was close. It was inconclusive is what they said."
"I'm not surprised anymore," Jackson said. "I'm not bashing the officials; I'm not saying that. I just think if you ask me what's been the difference (in losing close games), that's been a big difference."
----------------------------------
EXACTLY!!...Guarantee if it was one of our players that flag would have been thrown and the other team given another kick!!!
Here are some obvious penalties that were very evident when I re-watched this game:
Early possession: Head to head tackle on Bush…No Call but was obvious…If one of our guys does the same we get the flag!!
On the missed throw to Moore…Defensive Holding on Lions…No Call but was obvious…Mentioned by Radio crew as well..
Int Grounding Lions….no call when we were going to sack the “QB” and he threw it away…
The fumbled reception when Sheppard hit the “WR” could have been a complete pass -n- fumble but he didn’t take a step…Still both feet down and he had control of the ball to his chest prior to the hit???
Lions “LDE” lined up off sides clearly in the Neutral Zone…No call just prior to the half…Would have helped us get better “FG” range but we made that kick anyway….
BS Blind Side Block personal foul on the long kick return…Was mentioned by the Radio also but very obvious…
Def Holding BS Call on Rout…Gave them the 1st dn on a drive they cord on...
Celebration penalty BS on Curry…Gives good field position on the kick…But no call on times that the Lions celebrated as a group even gang banging each other on the freakin ground!!
Lions catch at 40yd side line was “BS” on their “TD” drive….That was out of bounds and NO feet were down so the NFL-NetWork shows a play with their feet cut off…Real stupid!!!
Any # of these "BS" call -n- Non Calls could have made a difference in the outcome of this game...
PantyRaider...Just More "Zebra" "BS"!!!
PR- You forgot the best of all! The offensive pass inteference call on Schillens. That call (I Believe it was on a 3rd down) was so ridiculous it wasn't even funny. It was one of those calls you will only see in a Raider game and makes you wonder if there is an agenda by the officials. It was too bad of a call just to be categorized as a mistake or bad call.
RaiderMike
Suh taking his helmet off? Big Fat Hairy Deal.
That's the Lame Kiffin excuse. When he was at Tennessee he whined for two weeks that Terrance Cody should have been penalized for taking his helmet off when he blocked the game winning field goal as time expired.
Indy got the benefit of a couple of questionable calls against the Texicans defense on their game winning drive (according to Mike Golic). One being a third down incomplete that gave Indy a first and goal. That's when you have something to complain about.
Even with Janikowski's leg the odds were less than 50%. There were points left on the field and too much time left on the clock and bad coverage calls.
H
Ok, new game on Sunday. So, Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah and a Go Raiders to all.
H
Couple of things...
JONES is not alone. I too believe that play was NOT a Cover 2. A Cover 2 is when both safeties play deep instead of one covering the box or TE. In the Cover 2, the MLB will often cover the TE.
But according to Bresnahan, the strength of the play was supposed to be at the beginning of it to disrupt the timing, and that's where the failure existed. I disagree with Bres. They did disrupt the timing. That's why the pass was short. The problem was the receiver was given time to come back to the ball, unattended by either of the players who were supposed to cover.
Re a GM. I seem to remember that Al left a list of people he would like to see take over as GM. He had designated that Marc and Trask would go over the list, including Hue Jackson in the process. They also said that no decision would be made until the off season. I presume that means, not until AFTER the SB (not at the point of elimination - unless that should happen in the SB). The tradition of this kind of thing is that you don't upstage the playoffs or SB.
We don't know who's on that list. We don't know if anyone on that list wants the job (although I'd think it would be viewed as a pretty sizable honor to be personally selected by Al Davis to replace Al Davis).
So, from either the end of the regular season or from when the Raiders are eliminated in the playoffs, we won't hear a peep out of the organization about anything until after the SB.
I would just like to say that,
because of a foot injury,
I will not be able to watch the Raiders game this weekend.
>>>>
BlandaRocked said....
JONES is not alone. I too believe that play was NOT a Cover 2. A Cover 2 is when both safeties play deep instead of one covering the box or TE. In the Cover 2, the MLB will often cover the TE.
>>>>
Well it was for SURE a zone... it was Jones that got in a tizzy because I called it the Tampa 2. The point was all along... why ZONE?
It's the only way for sure not to have a CB on Megatron in the middle of the field... when our free safety shouldn't even be in the NFL!
I'm happy the press is doing its job by pressing Bresh on the issue.
It was a moronic call, and these things have to get fixed quickly... if not already too late.
"BR"...
Johnson was moved to the slot position to insulate him from our "CB"s and NO adjustment was made...That's why he was on a "LB"...
As for the pass being short we don't know if that's something they practice???...Let Johnson run the "D" deep and comeback for the ball??
Fact is it was a bad match-up and that's on the "DC"!!!
As far as the "Tampa 2" the radio crew made mention of it...Whether that was every play I don't recall but it was being used...I will look for vids...
"H"...
There were enough bad calls in that game to have an effect irregardless of when they occurred...There's just as much ill effect if opportunities for points are taken away early as late...Or opportunities for points are given early or late...
And I don't give a damn what "Lance" cried...That has NO bearing upon the Raiders!!!
RaiderMike...
That one was not re-shown in the NFL.NetWork's rebroadcast of the game...And when they showed the out of bounds reception they selected a view with the feet cut off...It was so flagrant!!!
PantyRaider...Raiders 30 "Squaw"s 24!!!/_
PR- Bottom line is we have beat this horse to a million deaths. We aint gettin any help from the zebras today, tomorrow, or ever. That's why when we have a 13 point lead with 5mins left we can not have a defense shit the bed or a scheme that plays it to close to the vest. The thing we all love about Hue is that he can coach the offense with reckless abandon and though it sometimes backfires, I think we all can live, for the most part, with the results. We need to see a little more of this on the d. Talent-wise our front 7 is pretty dam good. Why hold them back?? Gotta let it all hang out the next 2 games.
RaiderMike
One thing is for sure, it doesn't take much to throw the Raiders defense off their game.
If simply putting the Lion's best WR in the slot position causes such a breakdown in coverage, you can be sure Bowe will play some slot today.
Will the Raiders have an answer? Or will the shooter be back in coverage again in what would be another gross mismatch of talent.
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