Raiders Offense Taking a Knapp?
If reports are to be believed, Greg Knapp is our new offensive coordinator. Not sure what to think about that. He got his playcalling duties stripped by Tom Cable, of all people. Then again, he was working with JaMarcus Russell at quarterback at the time.
Go to the comments section below for Knapp's bio on the Texans site, which will no doubt be removed shortly.
Allen's introductory press conference yesterday was impressive. Yes, he said all the right things, the things you would expect him to say, but he said them particularly well.
In their initial pressers, I remember Kiffin looking like a deer in the headlights, Cable sounding strong but a bit unsure, and Jackson coming off as a bit strident.
By comparison, Allen just seemed cool, collected and quite sure of himself. That bodes well, but the players still have to really buy into him if this is going to work.
Go to the comments section below for Knapp's bio on the Texans site, which will no doubt be removed shortly.
Allen's introductory press conference yesterday was impressive. Yes, he said all the right things, the things you would expect him to say, but he said them particularly well.
In their initial pressers, I remember Kiffin looking like a deer in the headlights, Cable sounding strong but a bit unsure, and Jackson coming off as a bit strident.
By comparison, Allen just seemed cool, collected and quite sure of himself. That bodes well, but the players still have to really buy into him if this is going to work.
posted by Raider Take at 8:59 AM
204 Comments:
GREG KNAPP BIO:
Greg Knapp is in his 17th season in the NFL as a coach and second season with the Texans. Overall, Knapp is entering his 26th year in coaching, including nine seasons as an offensive coordinator prior to being named the Texans quarterbacks coach on Jan. 27, 2010.
When Knapp joined the Texans, he was already familiar with starting quarterback Matt Schaub, who he coached from 2004-06 as the offensive coordinator in Atlanta. Under Knapp’s tutelage in Atlanta, Schaub developed into one of the most sought-after players in the NFL. Schaub has had continued success in his second term under the direction of Knapp in Houston.
Under Knapp in 2010, Schaub ranked ninth in the NFL with a 92.0 passer rating and became the 12th player in NFL history to throw for more than 4,000 yards in back-to-back seasons, ranking fourth in the NFL with 4,370 yards passing. In addition, Schaub had a career-best interception percentage of 2.1 and threw twice as many touchdowns (24) as interceptions (12), which was aided a string of 110 consecutive passes without an interception.
During his 16 years on the offensive side of the ball in the NFL, his quarterbacks have participated in the Pro Bowl nine times. San Francisco’s Steve Young and Jeff Garcia played in the game from 1995-98 and 2000-02, respectively; and Michael Vick represented the Atlanta Falcons from 2004-05.
Knapp spent the 2009 season as the offensive coordinator for the Seattle Seahawks and guided an attack that averaged 316.8 yards per game, including 218.9 per game through the air. Quarterback Matt Hasselbeck passed for 216.4 yards per game and finished with 3,029 yards on the year with 17 touchdowns as he bounced back from an injury-shortened 2008 campaign.
Knapp joined the Seahawks after two seasons as the offensive coordinator for the Oakland Raiders (2007-08). In his first year, the Raiders averaged 294.8 yards per game despite starting four different quarterbacks over the course of the season. In 2008, the Oakland offense averaged 272.3 yards per game, including a rushing attack that ranked 10th in the NFL with an average of 124.2 yards per game.
As the offensive coordinator in Atlanta, Knapp’s Falcons offense featured the best rushing attack in the league, averaging 169.9 yards per game on the ground from 2004-06.
Knapp began his NFL coaching career with San Francisco in 1998 as the 49ers quarterbacks coach. Under his guidance from 1998-99, Young concluded his Hall of Fame career with a passer rating of 95.5 over his last two years. In 2000, Garcia took over the reins of the Niners’ offense and threw for a career-high and team-record 4,278 yards and 31 touchdowns.
Knapp was promoted to San Francisco’s offensive coordinator in 2001 and held that position through 2003. In his three years as the play-caller, the 49ers averaged 355.8 yards per game, which ranked fifth in the league. Garcia threw for an average of 213.0 yards per game and posted a passer rating of 87.4 in Knapp’s offense.
A native of Seal Beach, Calif., Knapp played quarterback at Sacramento State from 1982-85. He started his coaching career in 1986 at his alma mater and remained there through 1994. He coached the Hornets running backs from 1986-89 and wide receivers from 1989-90 before being promoted to assistant head coach and offensive coordinator from 1991-94.
This guy ranked him 30th of coordinators a few years back, and the part about ball-control scares the hell out of me. Thats what Hue tried to do with Bush in all those blow out losses. This team is not built for "ball-control"
...quote....
SCOUT’S TAKE: “Knapp runs a ball-control offense to the hilt. You don’t see creativity to go downfield or open it up as far as big plays go. I think a lot of that is tied into the quarterback (Matt Hasselbeck), but historically that has always been his game. It probably hurt that offense this year because they did not have the personnel to have sustained drives. They needed to get the ball downfield more — and it forced the quarterback into a lot of bad situations.” … “They could not run at all. The quarterback quit on them. (Knapp) did a terrible job, and it is the reason why Mora was fired and should have been fired.”
http://www.profootballweekly.com/2010/01/11/ranking-the-offensive-coordinators
...end quote...
McFaddens prolly going... "We're going back to the offense I HATED so much when I first got here???
Just as well trade him... prolly for two 4th rounders from the mentality of the new "saviors."
Blogger PantyRaider said...
"H"...Gary!!!
I'm sure there's a little more left hidden in Knapp's tank somewhere...But where I have NO freakin clue....LoL!!!
Ha! ha! Ha!...
I'm dieing laughin at this pointy...NOT because I'm so freakin happy for my Raiders....I'm NOT!!!....But because this "New Era In Raider History" SUCKS!!!!
And I was promised that with a shiny new "GM" that all the top tier Coaches would want to come here....LIES!!!!!...Fuckin LIES!!!
OK!!...Got that off my chest...
CRAP!!!!...That's all the hell I can See Is CRAP!!!!
As you all know I was NOT impressed with the selection of "Dennis The Menace" as our shinny new "HC" and questioned how he will do what he has never had to do before....Hire!!!...
Well this most certainly doesn't raise my expectations for this kid one damn bit!!...If anything it makes me question how he will do when it comes to coaching for the 1st time without being under someone else's directives???
He has NEVER even worked on his own!@!!!~!!~/_
OK!!!....Kum-Ba-Ya!!...It will all work out....
ARE YOU FREAKIN MAD!!!
9:25 AM
Delete
Ok... on the positive side... at LEAST the new guys were smart enough to get rid of Fassel. I am not sure he even knew that the coverage teams were supposed to have gaps to protect. If you watch all of the playoff teams the attention to detail on STs is amazing in comparison. There's rarely any breakdowns in assignments.. and that comes from coaching and attention to detail.
Also, I saw mention of Hillis... the word is he is locker room poison. I doubt he would find welcome arms here. At least I would hope not...
Meanwhile Fuckin Fisher is Raiding us and laughing all the way back to St Louie!!!
This:
"bright side... palmer not only has the ability to, but will audible out on the line. in the mean time knapp can develop pryor"
Right!!!...Another "Mutiny" like we had under Shell II....So promising!!!
Take a Vote Raider Nation:
I would rather have Gwen Knapp @ 57%
http://www.silverandblackpride.com/2012/1/31/2761183/oakland-raider-rumors-greg-knapp-is-rumored-to-be-new-oc
But com'on now I want to read about all that damn:
"New Era Minty Fresh Optimistic Pimp Champion Fraternity"
"It Doesn't Matter Who Our "OC" Is We Are Champions"!!!!
LoL!!!.....
I type "LOL" but you know inside I'm crying!!!
The sky is apparently falling.
>>>>
I'm sure there's a little more left hidden in Knapp's tank somewhere...But where I have NO freakin clue....LoL!!!
>>>>
There isn't even a visible TANK on his resume. This seems like Allen just desperately hiring the only guy he could find that he knew personally (that was available.)
It really reminds me of Art Shell bringing in Tom Walsh.
Ball control... ZBS... and a bit of a WC offense.
Palmers prolly wishing he stayed on his couch. There isn't ANYTHING on Knapps resume that has Carson Palmer written on it.
Maybe if we can get Gannon back this would work??
And McFadden has already hated this offense.
This seems more like a self-serving hire more than a team hiring.
this hire IS a bit confusing...
LOL! RT... do you LIKE this hire?
It simply doesn't FIT!
Why bring in a ball-control, ZBS guy??
For THIS offense??
Explain why we should be HAPPY with this??? Just because??
This hire makes me think its Campbell we are locking into. He would be a perfect "ball-control" QB.
Carson Palmer??? He's a "Let the big dawg run" QB... there is no way in hell he isn't going to retire and just let our two draft picks go to waste with Knapp.
Best hope is to trade him for MAYBE a first and sign Campbell.
What a waste...
"RT"...
Do I sound like "Chicken Little" running around squawkin -n- Squawkin??
Well now you know how y'all sounded for so many a defunct season on your "Trail-o-Tear" in your "Valley-o-Doom-n-Gloom"!!!
I just never dreamed I would be joining you there...Never!!!
I'm looking forward to this next season, and I do not share the sentiment that the sky is falling.
Unlike his last stint, Knapp will be able to call the plays. He will work with Allen to put together the playbook, meaning the playbook will mostly be contrived of Allen's philosophy. Though Knapp will have a say in some of the offensive plays, the style of play will (and has been) decided by Allen. With that said, I will admit, Knapp isn't who I had in mind for an OC.
PR-I know who the media is reporting as potential DC's, I posted who they were in the last thread. I still think we didn't interview Moss for HC, but rather DC.
Hillis was considered a locker room cancer last year by the Browns' organization, not the guys in the locker room. Hillis' injury was prolonged by the organization because of his contract perks (that he was about to shatter), and because his agent was hardballing the organization on a contract. Which is when the Browns started touting him as a locker room cancer. Because of his injury, he could come at a lesser price.
It's interesting about the fumble ratio to he and Bush though, didn't know he couldn't hang on to the ball. Do him like Friday Night Lights, duct tape his hands to the ball.
Don't get me wrong, I like Michael Bush, and want him to return as well; but if he doesn't return, we need to get a power back to compliment McFadden.
I'm still looking forward to the changes and up coming season. I am still optimistic that things will turn around to a winning season.
...am I the only guy who's willing to wait until Game 5 to decide if this worth worrying about? At one point, if you wanna enjoy the ride, you must trust in alternate routes beyobd your knowledge... that's part of the fun... and all the pices won't truly be in place until it's been proven on the gridiron. Mckenzie and Allen are driving... not Al or Mark, and I'm on the side that says the sky cannot be falling yet, because the stars have not been set in the sky yet, and they won't be fully scopeable constellations til Sept Oct... Magellan says Chill!
It's not the end of the world...RIGHT!!!...Keep telling myself that!!!
But I will tell you this...The Kid was right...
"Change started the day my father passed away"
LoL!!!....I'm missing your daddy big time about now!!!
For the record: My Prediction
We will NOT come out the gate posting a winning record and if and when we do start posting "V"s it will be late in the season with little hope of a "PO" berth....
Just my take based upon what I now see...
Can be updated later but that's it for now Boyz!!!
I was hoping we could've at least interviewed Haley as OC. He may be paranoid, but the guy is an offensive guru, with an explosive game plan. Look at what he did with the Chiefs offense (without a strong QB and WRs). That is who I was thinking more along the lines of as OC, not Knapp.
I don't think the sky is falling, I do still feel optimistic, and I do think the only way is up. JUST WIN, BABY!
"OTB"...
"because the stars have not been set in the sky yet"
NO!!...We can't find enough glue to hold them up yet!!!
LoL!!...Nice shot though so I admire your commitments to be positive....I will find it at some point and join in...NOT sure how at this point though???
Raider Nate75...
Thanks for staying positive..
Hopefully at some point I can find my way back to it as well???
Over all these years that you've been trashing me for not being optimistic enough, the RESULTS (or lack of) have borne my takes out: no winning record, no head coaches worth keeping.
Now it's my turn to be optimistic because the changes at hand are changes I've been advocating (and that you've been angry at me for advocating).
We don't have any results yet from this new regime. I'll let you know if/when I lose faith based on the results.
Many of you shouted me down for taking a dim view of an organization that STILL doesn't have a winning record after nine seasons.
Now you want me to suddenly buy into your sudden doom and gloom at the very moment my anticipated changes are afoot? When we have no results or track record to prove one way or the other how this is going to go?
Good luck, have fun pouting for the next six months until kickoff.
Knapp or no Knapp, I'm still BUY, BUY, BUYING the Raiders.
That's OK"!! "RT"...
You have now officially lowed the bar and posted:
"If it takes time so what"
I'm NOT going to join you in that space and never will...
Take,
"The sky is apparently falling."
One would think so. Amazing what consternation one rumor would create.
One of the undeniable facts about Knapp. As a coordinator he hasn't had a QB that could complete more than 54-55% of his passes (Us and Atlanta). If that's what you got to work with you have to be ball control.
I'm reposting my post from the previous one to answer some questions and also Pose some:
Gary,
“Uhh, he called the plays for us until he was FIRED from that duty because a kid playing Madden could do better.
There is no positive way to spin this.”
If you are trying to say I’m spinning anything, you couldn’t be more wrong.
I was simply stating facts.
But, I will make this correction. After Kiffin was shown the door, Knapp called the plays for a while, then Cable took over. The reason, according to the media, Al Davis preferred an HC that called the offensive plays. If true, it is definitely one place I would disagree with Davis.
As for him being FIRED—not true. His contract was up and Jim Mora, Jr. wanted him as his OC in Seattle. Whether his contract would have been renewed is another debate all together. But, he left to go to Seattle. It was rumored as soon as Mora got the gig in Seattle.
NYRaider,
From his highlights there were a few wobblies in there. I think that’s correctable. But, his overall mechanics and footwork are ahead of Tebow’s.
Vick’s problem as a passer was everything was the same speed. Screen pass or fifty yard bomb. Didn’t matter, all fastballs. Not much in the way of touch on any short stuff.
H
Nate,
Haley is a whack job.
By the way. Has it officially been announced? Is there a press release? Has a news conference been scheduled?
The first rumors were Winston Moss was the new HC.
These could be true, but I've seen no official announcement.
H
Take,
Welcome to the glass half full group. I never left. Kinking your colon is just way too painful.
Welcome aboard.
H
Now I Get It...It Was All A Misquotation!!...
NOT "Explosive Offense" But "Implosive Offense Is What Dennis Wants!!!
LoL!!...It can't really be this bad now can it???
Well there's still hope right???
Napp may yet turn down the job!!!
"H"...
I just spilled my Mug today and have such a quiver in my hand that I doubt I can hold it long enough for a refill...
Wheres my eyes???...I can't even see the damn thing now here on my knees searching around on this floor...
But not to worry...I will eventually get my composure back as soon as can find the toilet so I can PUKE!!!
This is a major buzz kill for me. I have been pretty pessimistic for the past 9 years and I am more optimistic now, but this seems like a big step backwards on offense.
Take, was your only desire to have a GM? Or did you want the dysfunction and paranoia to be eliminated as well. I definitely want a professionally run organization, and the reports I have heard is that the dysfunction is alive and well.
Again, perhaps I am too sensitive and too paranoid, after all I am a Die-Hard Raider fan.
I would have rather kept Saunders. At least Knapp does have strong running games.
Roy
I know Jerry McDonald is pretty reliable, as media types go, so I'll assume it's a high probability.
If true, I'm going to give the guy a chance. This may be the most talent he's had to work with on offense his entire career.
H
"H"...
What choice do we have???
It either give him and the Raiders a chance or off with our heads -n- out with our hearts!!!
"RT"...
Can I borrow your old Bucket to collect all these tears???
Roy, my only desire wasn't to have a GM. I'll reiterate some of the desires that I'm seeing come to fruition:
-A new GM to guide football operations.
-A broader search of head coaching candidates when there's an opening
-A head coach with the authority and independence to pick his own staff
-Less ownership involvement in the running of the defense
-Not being stuck in old ways, such as only hiring head coaches with an offensive background
Another thing I'm waiting for is a more healthy and holistic approach to the draft, but since we don't have picks, that remains to be seen.
But if there's organizational dysfunction and unprofessionalism the degree that you are hearing, then sure, I'll expect that to put a drag on things.
It would limit McKenzie's or Allen's potential, but it would be inherited, not something they created, right?
Yes, you can have the bucket, but you'll have to empty it, it's full 'o tears from nine years of playoff droughts.
Take,
I completely agree that it is inherited and not created, however, I want it eliminated and not perpetuated.
I do think it is soon and we need to give them time. I can only hope that McKenzie is able to stamp a positive professional identity on this team.
I am optimistic sort of. I think we take a step back this year but that our future is brighter, if that makes any sense. I just want to go to the playoffs.
Roy
Oh, criminy! Why do I always seem to be on the opposite side of conventional wisdom on this board?
Knapp will be fine. Allen is a rookie head coach who doesn't intend to call his own plays. He is going to find experienced coordinators with experience calling plays. While both Saunders and Knapp fit that bill, Allen is also going to turn to those he knows. Only Knapp fills that bill.
Put simply, Knapp is the most experienced play calling offensive coordinator he knows. He believes that Knapp is capable and willing to implement Allen's preferred style of offense. The experienced assistants, chosen by Knapp and Allen, will be responsible for making the players meet the system.
We have to have someone, somewhere with veteran experience at what they do. And it's going to be someone Allen is familiar with.
I believe Allen said in his presser that he would like to model an offense off New Orleans, in that it should be smart and up tempo (I'm paraphrasing). N.O. is not a ball-control offense.
Knapp's previous stint with the Raiders is no measure of his capabilities. In his last stint here, he was saddled with a bad team and some bad QBing.
For what it's worth, there were plenty of times in 2011 when Jackson's playcalling was unimaginative and ineffective. So I'm not sure what Jackson, Saunders, etc, bring to the table that Knapp can't.
BTW, Knapp wasn't "AL's guy"; he was Cable's. Cable and Knapp worked together in Atlanta, just like Allen did with Knapp.
Blanda,
"Why do I always seem to be on the opposite side of conventional wisdom on this board?"
Hey, I'm ready to give the guy a shot. The guy's never really had a quarterback of Palmer's caliber before.
Which brings up a quesion I have to ask:
How in the hell does a 55% career passer keep getting massively large contracts in the hundred million range?
Just asking.
H
"BR"
"ZBS"???
Run-Run-Run Vanilla "O"???
Unless Knapp has learned something sense yesterday that's who he is...
All I can hope for at the point is that Al Saunders has not been shown the door and will work with Knapp together with only one actually calling the plays...This would work for me...I think???
Otherwise all I can see is a huge set back for this "O"...At least in the short term if not the long term as well???
"Can't teach an old dog new tricks"
Sorry but that's just a simple reality because that "Old Dog" will always feel more comfortable returning to his own vomit!!!
"In the end he is who we thought he was"
Those are not just meaningless quotations...They live threw time because they tend to hold true more often than not...
"You can't change a tiger's stripes"
Frankly, Panty, while I liked the Saunders hire under Jackson, I've never been a Saunders fan. Saunders was the OC for KC under Schottenheimer. Marty's teams were always designed to have a defense capable of getting turnovers, with a plodding, ball control offense that didn't make mistakes.
Since I knew that the offense would be of Jackson's design, I figured Sauders would help with the "don't make mistakes" aspect. That didn't happen.
I agree with H that Knapp has never had a QB the quality of Palmer, and he's rarely had a decent HC to work with.
I'm hoping that two coaches who have spent a lot of time working for bad HCs spent a lot of time thinking about how they'd do it better.
LoL!!!...Now this is rather funny...
The new face of the franchise sailing the ship now... Mark Davis aka Capt. K
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-FMU0oWnc1bU/Tw4QL__MPSI/AAAAAAAAE54/R_cyYuw3-TI/s640/Kanagroo%255B1%255D.jpg
"Smokin cigarette's and watchin' Captain Kangaroo... now don't tell me i've nothing to do"
H, we don't mind low percentage ball throwers in Raiderland. I don't think Plunk or Lamonica ever had high percentages, but they could put the ball in the hands of a deep rout runner.
BR "I agree with H that Knapp has never had a QB the quality of Palmer...."
I think I read in the media that he has worked with Vick, Young and others.
Media said he worked with four QBs while OC in Oakland, including Russell... which was his demise.
"D" wins championships so why fret Right!!!
I think we all agree that the "D" should be vastly improved so what if the "O" takes a dive....
Maybe a deal for Tebow is in the works so we can be blessed!!!
LoL!!!
Blanda,
True enough, but remember, that was in the day of Hayes and Haynes and you could bump and run in man coverage all the way down the field.
Sixty percent passers were very rare back then.
Now you've got the five yard contact rule amongst other rules specifically to open up the passing game. If you're completing less than fifty-five percent you're fairly mediocre.
H
We had an absolute mess under Kiffin. I don't blame Knapp for any of that.
Knapp handled Vick while Vick was just a thrower. Vick might still be a thrower. I don't remember him working with young. But as a QB coach in Houston, he kept their rookie QB from destroying their season after Schaub went down.
Blanda,
He worked with Shaub in Atlanta. There were some in Atlanta that thought Shaub was the better quarterback. Houston ponied up and traded for Shaub to be their starter.
Speaking of back in the day passers, it was a huge deal when Stabler retired he was just under 60% completion percentage. At the time that was the best career percentage and stood for quite a while.
H
NFL Network: Knapp a done deal
Greg Knapp will return to Oakland as offensive coordinator, the NFL Network is reporting.
Allen declined to confirm Knapp’s addition to the staff in an interview with KNBR Tuesday morning, saying he and general manager Reggie McKenzie would meet and determine when to release information regarding staff hires.
O Da Drama...Knapp is not a big name hire, but he will work under the GM/HC's vision. It will not be up to Knapp on what style or scheme the Offense will run under. That comes from the vision of the GM/HC and he will be instructed on the style of the Offense. Knapp will play call accordingly.
Let's remember the structure of an Al Davis team. The 'HC' was an OC, the OC was an assistant OC (Saunders) in reality. Those who gave Hue all the credit for the "high powered Offense", now claim it was Saunder's doing. They think the Offense was so good and that only Hue or Saunders could get that production out of them....just another false reality.
When Knapp was in Oakland under Kiffin, he did not call the plays, Kiffin did. Kiffin was fired 4-5 games(?) into the next season, Cable took over and wanted to be the play caller and made the decision with Mr. Davis to take that duty away from Knapp who took over when Kiffin was let go. Knapp then went to Seattle and Mr.Davis hired Hue to take away the play calling from Cable. Cable was then fired because he really had no use for Mr.Davis because Hue was now the new 'HC'/OC. Mr.Davis didn't believe that a HC should oversee the whole operation because that's what Mr.Davis did.
The QB when Knapp was an ASSISTANT OC, was Josh McCown who was poor at best. Reading of Raider fans screaming bloody murder over this hire is ridiculous. Some are screaming for Mr.Davis to come back from the dead so he can run the team the way it was...those who are screaming the "sky is falling" are the same ones who said the team was on the right track under Mr.Davis' method. I wouldn't put too much value in what those people are saying, they haven't been right yet....the offer is still on the table....no takers?
JONES
The Knapp hiring is underwhelming at best. What troubles me the most is that our coach has a clear defensive background, which is great but it also means that the offensive coordinator will be in a very pivotal position. What I liked most about the Dennis Allen hire was that he wasn't just some retread. I guess I was hoping for the same philosophy when it came to coordinators.
Frankly, I may be even more concerned about the fact that they just interviewed Greg Manusky. This is a guy who couldn't make it work with the 49ers and all that talent on defense, the same guy who just got fired after one year with the Chargers with Norv Turner citing "3rd down defense" as a major problem area. (Sound familiar?) Whether our coach will be heavily involved in the defense or not, is this the type of guy we want to bring around??
Puzzling.
THE SKY IS NOT FALLING!!!!!
if you've followed this proccess from the beginning, you would know this.
What did Mckenzie say at his PC ?
He said he wanted TOUGHNESS, from his football team.
Did the Raiders lack toughness ? hell yeah. that's why they blew so many december games, and games in the 4th quarter.
So Mckenzie hires Dennis Allen. What does he bring to the table ?
Allen brings, defense, toughness, and never say die, attitude.
And Allen hires Knapp as OC. Knapp runs a "ball control" offense.
Ball control, means running the ball between tackles. slamming it in there. hard nosed running attack, that gets the tough yards late in game.
This is what the Steelers do. is it working so terrible for them ?
Am i missing something, or are there fans around here that would rather watch Carson Palmer throw his 20 picks again next year ?
Please. Raiders are following Mckenzie's plan.
Changing the attitude. bringing the toughness. it will work.
>>>>
Hillis was considered a locker room cancer last year by the Browns' organization, not the guys in the locker room.
>>>
You forget he was also shown the door at Denver.
Corky mentioned what a handful he is...
So we want malcontents now?
Along with career-underachieving assistants. I'm not sure what change everyone is so happy about.
These are all the WORST traits of Al, without the benefit of the doubt because of past SB rings and a SB visit 10 years ago.
>>>>
Media said he worked with four QBs while OC in Oakland, including Russell... which was his demise.
>>>>
This is simply not true. His demise was not because of Russell... if you remember that season, Russell actually looked like a serviceable QB AFTER Knapp was demoted from play calling duties.
Tom Cable took over calling plays and we won two games to close the season out... Houston and TB.
If anyone remembers that gawd-awful 24-0 loss to Atlanta that year with Knapp, they would be also sticking a fork in their eyes about this.
Atlanta was calling the plays from the sidelines... along with the rest of us watching.
I want those three hours back 4 years later.
>>>>
Changing the attitude. bringing the toughness. it will work.
>>>
What coach DOESNT say this? Pretty sure if you look back at what Haley and McDaniels said after being hired, you would have thought the Raiders were in deep doo doo in the AFCW.
Oh wait... thats what everyone expected here.
I am simply pointing out this could be true with the Raiders as well.
I am hoping for 7 wins tops next year.
This could be a grease fire... I've said it since Hue was fired...
I looked it up... with Knapp calling plays vs Atl, we had 3 first downs and 77 total yards.
Nov 2. 2008.
Pretty sure that is when Cable took over calling plays.
Found it:
Interim head coach Tom Cable has taken over the play-calling duties for the Oakland Raiders from offensive coordinator Greg Knapp in another move to spark the NFL's lowest-scoring offense.
Cable said that he relieved Knapp of his duties before last week's 17-6 loss to the Carolina Panthers and would remain in that role for the rest of the season.
"I feel responsible for where we're at offensively," Cable said. "With that being the case and my nature and my personality I've got to find a way to do more and help where I can. I really haven't been active in that role, obviously as the line coach, but I feel that responsibility now and want to shoulder that responsibility so I'm more involved."
Knapp was replaced after the worst offensive output for the Raiders in 47 years, when they gained just 77 yards and had a franchise-low three first downs in a 24-0 loss to the Falcons. Things picked up a bit in Cable's first game calling plays, with Oakland gaining 259 yards and making 17 first downs against the Panthers.
>>>>
Hey, I'm ready to give the guy a shot. The guy's never really had a quarterback of Palmer's caliber before.
>>>>
Valid point... Garcia, Vick, DuhMarcus, Hasselbeck.
But has Palmer ever ran a similar offense in the pro's before?
Will he even be WILLING to?
These questions have to be answered before I am going to start chugging this Koolade.
3 first downs and 77 yards is still on his resume.
This comment has been removed by the author.
FINAL word on optimism, from me at least... totally align with Take's point of view. WHY? Simple. If you are not optimistic, HOW CAN YOU EXPECT THE PLAYERS TO PERFORM TO THE BEST OF THEIR ABILITIES AND HIGHEST HOPES? If you aren't optimistic, by definition, and you expect the players to play four quarters, regardless of the scoreboard or the division standings, you, my friend, are a hypocrite. There is room for that kind of thinking with all the other teams. Not here. It's not what a Commitment to Excellence demands. Mediocrity, sure. But not the big E. Let's do this... (I think i just heard Al Davis)
Funny, where was all this offseason drama and hysteria from you when Chuck Bresnehan was named DC last year? He'd been out of the NFL for THREE years prior to that.
Meanwhile, Knapp had a hand in one of the NFL's surprising QB success stories just a month ago.
From the Houston Chronicle: "Knapp spent the last two seasons with the Texans and did an outstanding job coaching rookie T.J. Yates this season. Before he was hired by coach Gary Kubiak, Knapp had been an offensive coordinator in his four previous jobs, including Oakland, where he’ll be reunited with new Raiders coach Dennis Allen. Knapp and Allen coached together at Atlanta.
Before he left to coach the AFC team in the Pro Bowl, Kubiak said he was worried that one of the new head coaches in the NFL would try to hire Knapp as offensive coordinator. Knapp is highly regarded around the NFL."
The sky is falling! Funny how your patience suddenly runs out when the ways you patiently supported are finally and necessarily changed.
Buy, sell or hold the Raiders? BUY, BUY, BUY, Baby!
To suggest that the Raiders will use ZBS and be a ball control offense goes against everything that Allen believes in and has witnessed first-hand.
It will be an up-tempo offense with multiple sets, motions, formations, and personnel groupings. 3 & 4 WR sets will become a staple. We will see more empty backfield sets in 2012 than we have the previous decade.
Running the ball effectively will be a major priority along with the ability for dynamic plays down the field. I also wouldn't be surprised if Palmer has more latitude to audibilize at the LOS.
It is fair to say that Allen will model his offense after the Saints/Payton philosophy the past 4 years.
Is the Saint offense ball control? No. Does the Saint offense us ZBS? No. Is the Saints offense dink & dunk? No.
Knapp is a very experienced offensive coach especially with maximizing a QB's skill set.
What a lot of people are missing or under-estimating about the Knapp hire is the personal and professional relationship between Knapp and Allen.
News Flash.... THE SKY FELL THIS LAST SEASON! and we all watched it in extreme slow motion. Much as I like Al Saunders I understand the reasoning behind not keeping him. Do you buy a new house and install your old kitchen 'cos you made some great meals in it? New Floor Plan.
I think Reggie Mckenzie has a mind so quick that his mouth struggles to keep up... but is that so bad? Jackson had the opposite problem and it became clearer after Al Davis' death.
The up-side?…….. we need McKenzie's smarts more than his eloquence.
I thought Dennis Allen came across as nervous, but then who wouldn't be? It's the biggest move of his career… meanwhile, everything you read about him, along with player endorsements etc, paints a picture of a very smart, driven and dynamic young coach… there seems to be a vibe about him in the manner of Jon Gruden, obviously on the other side of the ball. But hey, they've gotta come from somewhere and they didn't break the mold with Gruden/Peyton/Kubiak etc, maybe we just hired the next one……. the scariest part of the whole two weeks were the names coming out of Oakland. Tice, Capers, Mornhinweg… phew!
The Gregg Knapp re-hire is a little disconcerting… BUT Reggie McKenzie is a personnel guy and if the hiring of Allen showed us anything, it was that he knows what he's looking for, has a plan and trusts Allen is on the same page. This is not Al Davis's famous Raider loyalty in action.
Lane Kiffin and Knapp not only had zero control, they had The Jamarcus Russell… which turned out to be a very expensive football team disease. They both seem to have recovered, we have yet to.
SO TAKE... I'm with you in reserving judgement… I've been begging for a legit GM for years. we got one, and now I'm gonna have faith in his ability to put our sky back in place and our team in the playoffs.
GO RAIDERS!
Note to Dennis Allen: please don't make me have to defend your DC choice.
I'm bullish on the Raiders.
Just texted my broker: BUY, BUY, BUY.
My simple check list:
Is Knapp a qualified, experienced offensive coach? Check.
Did Knapp's previous boss (Kubiak) positively endorse him. Check.
Has Knapp been a play caller? Check.
Does Knapp have a top level QB to work with in Oakland. Check.
Does Knapp have an offense with dynamic playmakers? Check.
Do I trust Allen to pick Knapp based on their professional experiences together? Check.
Sorry but my sky remains blue and expansive with the sun shining brightly. Try to call for rain and clouds at your own peril.
ALL YOU NEY SAYERS, KEEP YOUR NEGATIVITY TO YOURSELVES.
THE HELL WITH YOU IDIOTS!!!
NEW ERA IN RAIDER FOOTBALL AND FRICKON LOVIN IT!!!
GO SILVER & BLACK!!!
SCALR8R
We Now Have A "Coaches" Board Again At Raiders.com...
Dennis Allen
Head Coach
That’s It???
http://www.raiders.com/team/coaches.html
Raiders | Kelly Skipper to be retained
Tue, 31 Jan 2012 17:19:21 -0800
Oakland Raiders running backs coach Kelly Skipper will be retained by the new coaching staff, according to a source.
Raiders | Greg Manusky interviews for DC job
Tue, 31 Jan 2012 17:18:20 -0800
The Oakland Raiders interviewed former San Diego Chargers defensive coordinator Greg Manusky for their vacant defensive coordinator position Tuesday, Jan. 31, according to a source.
"the personal and professional relationship between Knapp and Allen"
Just Great!!!...We get It!!!
He hires his buddies!!!!
Someone must think that something was working very well with our team...Their hiring all our assistants...Not like these guys will sit out of work...Meanwhile we have???
Tight ends coach Adam Henry will coach wide receivers at LSU.
special teams coach John Fassel (Rams),
defensive coach Mike Waufle (Rams)
wide receivers coach Sanjay Lal (Jets)
In seasons past the "Doom-n-Gloomers" would have been squirming about the depleted talent pool for assistant coaches...Now we get this:
ALL YOU NEY SAYERS, KEEP YOUR NEGATIVITY TO YOURSELVES.
THE HELL WITH YOU IDIOTS!!!
NEW ERA IN RAIDER FOOTBALL AND FRICKON LOVIN IT!!!
LoL!!!...Obviously the "Shadow"!!!
If It's On Wikipedia It Must be True!!!
Al Saunders (born February 1, 1947) an American football coach, currently employed by the Oakland Raiders.
Is there still hope???
I can't find a thing that says for sure one way or the other if Al Saunders is staying on or going...Maybe he get's promoted to "Assistant HC-O" while Napp takes a nap as our new "OC"???
Stranger things have happened and nothing appears as it should be at the moment...
>>>>
It is fair to say that Allen will model his offense after the Saints/Payton philosophy the past 4 years.
>>>>
Umm... why would that be fair to say? What does Knapp have to do with NO's?? He watched them on teevee?
So if Allens next hire is Manusky.. is that another guy I am supposed to get fired up about?
Knapp lost his job as an OC for a reason folks... maybe he's a better QB's coach?
I'd like to see someone from Seattle raving about him as an OC... and I can't believe nobody remembers how horrible he was with the Raiders.
I don't remember anyone trying this hard to make the Breshnahan hire a great thing... shrug.
Ok... I guess I will hope for the best.
I can't remember the last time any coordinator with such a mediocre resume has suddenly "found it!"
Maybe there is a god!
This guy Knapp whom you're freaking out about got hired by an NFL team after the Raiders let him go. So what's your point?
PR... I think they are saying that Saunders is "still under contract" whatever that means.
I assume this means he will still be the QB's coach.
I hope he didn't WANT the OC job, or I don't see how this will work out... but gawd forbid anyone say anything negative about this mess...
"I can't remember the last time any coordinator with such a mediocre resume has suddenly "found it!"
I can: the moment you didn't freak out like this when Bresnehan became DC.
And what's with the Church of Al Saunders here? Was he even calling our plays last year?
You tell me what Al Saunders has accomplished in the NFL over the past five years. Specific examples please.
>>>>
Raider Take said...
This guy Knapp whom you're freaking out about got hired by an NFL team after the Raiders let him go. So what's your point?
>>>>
RT.. he got demoted from his OC job with the Raiders mid-season after the Atl meltdown, and then hired as OC for Seattle for one year.
He was then demoted once again to QB's coach for the last two seasons.
This is prolly his last desperate chance to have an OC job ever again.
But yes, you are correct... he was still in the NFL.
Again, what has Al Saunders accomplished over in the NFL over the past five years that makes you think the Raiders' fate is hanging by the Saunders thread?
Gary, don't move the ball. PR is pointing to the fact that Raiders assistants are moving on to parallel jobs right now, which, I am pointing out, is exactly what Knapp did after leaving the Raiders. Rendering the point moot.
Let's keep the these threads honest.
>>>>
I can: the moment you didn't freak out like this when Bresnehan became DC.
>>>>
I defended Al's decisions a lot... but I don't remember defending that.
I might not have "freaked out" about it.. but we didn't just FIRE a freaking top 10 OC like we did with Hue Jackson.
That is my point.
Get it yet?
We went from a PROVEN top 10 OC two years running, to a guy that keeps getting demoted.
>>>>
I am pointing out, is exactly what Knapp did after leaving the Raiders. Rendering the point moot.
Let's keep the these threads honest.
>>>>
So lets get this straight?
Are you REALLY saying the QB's coach is the same job hierarchy as OC???
REALLY?
Either you are being ignorant or dishonest.
Which is it, Mr. Glass House...
PR is pointing out that Raiders assistants are now moving on to parallel jobs RIGHT NOW. What did Knapp do when he left the Raiders? He moved on to a parallel job. For all I know, John Fassel will be selling life insurance in 2013. Again, follow the thread and follow the logic, and then you won't have to worry about that Glass House you're in.
Al Saunders, past five years in the NFL, please enlighten me as to why we're so worried about losing him...
..."Are you REALLY saying the QB's coach is the same job hierarchy as OC???"....
This coming from the same person who said Hue was a good hire by Mr.Davis when Hue was a QB coach for Baltimore and was hired to be the OC. A lot of chain yanking going on...these types are not sincere.
JONES
If you look over his stats here:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/KnapGr0.htm
...it looks to me like Knapp built his reputation almost solely as a OC with scrambling QB's (Garcia, and Vick).. after that he was pretty much a failure.
After Vick, he was 23rd, 29th, and 25th.
The good news is that Palmer has such great WHEELS!
RT... the idea was to keep Saunders because of continuity. If St. McKenzie had to get rid of a proven top 10 offensive guru (who had close ties to Palmer) it AT LEAST made sense to keep Saunders around... I was hoping as an OC.
Now who knows what is happening besides putting all our eggs in Knapps basket and pray that Saunders stays around.
I DON'T TRUST KNAPP (3 first downs, 77 yards)...
I did trust Hue Jackson with this offense.
Fretting about the loss of John Fassel, praying for the retention of Al Saunders...Sigh.
>>>>
Raider Take said...
Fretting about the loss of John Fassel, praying for the retention of Al Saunders...Sigh.
>>>>
Hey Glass House... I hated Fassel.
And tell me what your problem with Saunders is?
His SB ring?
His OCing the top ranked offenses three years running with KC?
He's accomplished a TON more than Knapp has... cmon Glass House... fess up...
>>>>
This coming from the same person who said Hue was a good hire by Mr.Davis when Hue was a QB coach for Baltimore
>>>>
I don't remember having any feelings at all about Hue when he was hired.
I'm pretty sure he wasn't the OC of a team that had three first downs for the RAIDERS a few years back...
Gosh, maybe honesty is only a requirement for people not as RT's pets?
If you hated Fassel, then take it up with PR, who seems upset about losing him.
I don't dislike Saunders. I'm simply waiting for a sincere reason why you're so worried about losing him.
And the next time you call someone ignorant and dishonest, and they call you on it, you might want to address it. People can actually follow this stuff, you know.
...."I did trust Hue Jackson with this offense."....
Hue was a QB coach before he came to Oakland. He failed twice as an OC before his QB gig in Baltimore. What's the difference?
JONES
Gary,
Calling Knapp a "QB coach" is completely out of line. The guy has been an OC 9 years and has 17 years of NFL offensive coaching experience.
I personally don't get unnecessarily hung up on total # of years of experience.
What is most important to me is that Allen hires guys that he trusts and has confidence in their capabilities.
You naturally have every right to be skeptical about McKenzie, Allen, Knapp, and the direction the Raiders organization is taking. When the results come in during the 2012 season we can truly argue the merits of each hire.
...."I'm pretty sure he wasn't the OC of a team that had three first downs for the RAIDERS a few years back..."....
A team that had Josh McCown/Andrew Walter and the immortal J Russell as QB and a team in total turmoil because of the 'Lance incident'. This Offense has more weapons and potential than the golden year of 2008. Face it, you and Jethro are pure provocateurs, your games are for kids, leave it at that.
JONES
Spouting doom and gloom because we lost STC Fassell is quite hilarious.
I find it remarkable that we are so worried about coaches who leave who were mediocre at best.
And for the last time, this drum of "top 10 offense" needs to cease. Calling the Raiders offense of 2011 top 10 is way off base.
C'mon... The only decent reason for retaining Al Saunders is to keep running the Hue Jackson offense which Al Saunders had no part in inventing, nor had any experience calling at game time.
Hue Jackson isn't here anymore. Dennis Allen is. Dennis Allen will do what all HCs do, and run the type of offense he prefers. Just because Allen is a defensive guy, that doesn't mean he doesn't understand offense. He certainly knows what he fears as a DC, right?
If you really look at the situation, there was no way that Allen was going to name Saunders as his OC.
Gary...
"but gawd forbid anyone say anything negative about this mess..."
LoL!!!...Now ain't that the truth...And when Al Davis was still on board it was:
" gawd forbid anyone say anything positive about this mess..."
Now they have turned the tables while scratching around looking for something to support their New Found "Optimistic Pimp Society"!!!
The "New Era"...What a freakin JOKE that is so far!!!
"RT"...
The "Play Book"!!!
Didn't you see it this season as our "O" climbed into the top 10 despite losing our "QB"/"WR"s/"RB"s and being supported by such a piss poor "D"???...Or are yopu just blocking that from memory???
Oh!!...I know!!...Your giving Hue all the credit...Right??
Because you don't remember or didn't bother looking that "CP3" complained that he rarely saw Hue at "QB" meeting or any other preparations during the week???
So now just who do you suppose was drafting up that "O" for Hue to call come game time as he stood in his lime light???
Your Turn!!!
Maybe your can speak about "Terminology" and how that applies to a "QB" and other players learning an "O" and becoming comfortable/productive in it???
By the way...Which one of us was pimping Bresnahan???
I was pimping Moss and disappointed if you recall but said he did have one season with a top rated "D" when the "O" was very strong so maybe could again....WRONG!!!...The 1st one was just a mirage!!!...
NFL Fact Raiders' 2011-12 Top "10" Offense!!!
NFL Fact Raiders' 2011-12 Top "10" Offense!!!
NFL Fact Raiders' 2011-12 Top "10" Offense!!!
NFL Fact Raiders' 2011-12 Top "10" Offense!!!
NFL Fact Raiders' 2011-12 Top "10" Offense!!!
NFL Fact Raiders' 2011-12 Top "10" Offense!!!
NFL Fact Raiders' 2011-12 Top "10" Offense!!!
NFL Fact Raiders' 2011-12 Top "10" Offense!!!
NFL Fact Raiders' 2011-12 Top "10" Offense!!!
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&offensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&conference=ALL&role=TM&season=2011&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=TOTAL_YARDS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1
Oakland Raiders
#9 Total "O"
22.4 Pts/Gm
359 pts
379.5 yds/gm
6.0 ave/play
Pass-#11
Rush-#7
Scoring-#16
Now shove that damn crap JackSmack!!!
"OL"-#5
NFL Fact Raiders' 2011-12 Top "10" Offense!!!
NFL Fact Raiders' 2011-12 Top "10" Offense!!!
NFL Fact Raiders' 2011-12 Top "10" Offense!!!
NFL Fact Raiders' 2011-12 Top "10" Offense!!!
NFL Fact Raiders' 2011-12 Top "10" Offense!!!
NFL Fact Raiders' 2011-12 Top "10" Offense!!!
NFL Fact Raiders' 2011-12 Top "10" Offense!!!
NFL Fact Raiders' 2011-12 Top "10" Offense!!!
NFL Fact Raiders' 2011-12 Top "10" Offense!!!
NFL Fact Raiders' 2011-12 Top "10" Offense!!!
NFL Fact Raiders' 2011-12 Top "10" Offense!!!
NFL Fact Raiders' 2011-12 Top "10" Offense!!!
NFL Fact Raiders' 2011-12 Top "10" Offense!!!
NFL Fact Raiders' 2011-12 Top "10" Offense!!!
NFL Fact Raiders' 2011-12 Top "10" Offense!!!
NFL Fact Raiders' 2011-12 Top "10" Offense!!!
NFL Fact Raiders' 2011-12 Top "10" Offense!!!
NFL Fact Raiders' 2011-12 Top "10" Offense!!!
NFL Fact Raiders' 2011-12 Top "10" Offense!!!
NFL Fact Raiders' 2011-12 Top "10" Offense!!!
NFL Fact Raiders' 2011-12 Top "10" Offense!!!
NFL Fact Raiders' 2011-12 Top "10" Offense!!!
NFL Fact Raiders' 2011-12 Top "10" Offense!!!
NFL Fact Raiders' 2011-12 Top "10" Offense!!!
NFL Fact Raiders' 2011-12 Top "10" Offense!!!
NFL Fact Raiders' 2011-12 Top "10" Offense!!!
NFL Fact Raiders' 2011-12 Top "10" Offense!!!
Blanda -
I agree with what you said about Allen knowing offense because he has to as a coach of the defense.
I think that's a point that a lot of folks are missing.
This is Dennis Allen's team to coach, not Greg Knapp. I expect Allen to be the visionary and Knapp to implement the vision.
Oakland Raiders
#9 Total "O"
How do we know besides the simple FACT that NFL.com calculates it as such???
Well lets for the sake of argument assign all 7 reported "O" categories with equal value/importance and thus get an average...
#9 Total "O" Yds/Game -n- Total Yds
#11 Pass
#7 Rush
#16 Scoring
#6 "FG"s
#10 Punting
#5 "OL"
---------
64 total points
64/7 = #9.1
Which is as far as I can tell mathematically still a top "10" rating!!!
Now how the fuck are you going to argue against that JackSmart!!!
I left off the duplicated #'s such as:
Receiving = Passing
"TD"s = Scoring
Total Yds 16 Games = Total Yds/Game
If you want to count that go ahead...It's still rated top "10"!!!
I left off Kicking/Kick Returns as being just purely "ST"s with NO effect from the "O" what so ever...Punting -n- "FG"s do have a relationship to the "O" as far as both field position and total points scored....
129/359 Pts Scored by Extra Pts/"FG"s...
Now if you also average the "Scoring" we have this:
#16 "TD"s
#6 "FG"s
------------
22/2 = #11 Scoring which is prolley a much more realistic representation!!!
Your Turn JackSmack!!!
Gary,
“but gawd forbid anyone say anything negative about this mess...”
Criminy man. Even in the darkest days of the last nine years I never saw anyone throw in the towel this quick.
First they didn’t have the new HC the day after McKenzie was hired. Now, they are bringing in folks fairly quick and it’s a mess! Please tell me you’re just being Devil’s Advocate? Because, if not, your colon is so knotted up a whole Boy Scout Troop wouldn’t be able to untie it.
Raider00,
“Ball control, means running the ball between tackles. slamming it in there. hard nosed running attack, that gets the tough yards late in game.”
Exactly. That was my point late in the Detroit game. Three yards, we run the clock out and we are AFCW Champs. Instead we throw an incomplete 40 yard pass, stop the clock then cover Calvin Johnson with our MLB fifty yards downfield.
Hey Take,
“This guy Knapp whom you're freaking out about got hired by an NFL team after the Raiders let him go. So what's your point?”
And, the team that hired him to coach their QB’s got to the second round of the playoffs with their THIRD string QB. Our previous HC dropped a first and a second, and we were sitting at home come the post season.
Ok, I may be getting old and feeble, but if I remember correctly this is the Knapp timeline for the past few years:
-Knapp worked with Cable in Atlanta and was highly recommended by Cable.
-Kiffin called the plays even though Knapp was the OC. (more on that later).
-Kiffin got fired
-Cable took over as HC, Knapp called plays
-Cable started calling the plays later in the season. It was reported in the Media at the time this was because Al Davis preferred the HC call the plays. Don’t know if it was true. But if so, it is something I disagreed with, but we ended the year on a positive note. It seemed fairly obvious Cable was uncomfortable calling the plays.
-Knapp’s contract was up at the end of the season. When Jim Mora, Jr. took the job in Seattle, he wanted Knapp. Knapp accepted the position. There was no OFFICIAL firing, though his contract was, most likely, not going to be renewd. Enter Hue Jackson.
-The Mora regime in Seattle lasted only one year after going 5-11. Welcome the fabulous Pete Carroll who has posted fantastic back to back 7-9 records yet still has a job.
-Knapp goes to Houston, is reunited with Matt Shaub, whom he coached in Atlanta, as the QB coach. Houston goes to the second round of the playoffs with their third string QB.
-Seattle has posted 4-12, 5-11, 7-9, 7-9, under three different HC’s and OC’s. So, it wasn’t just Knapp. Also, under Knapp their offense actually ranked better than the last two seasons. Marginally so, but still better. In fact, they attained their best ranking in the last four years under Knapp (that’s for those worried about our top ten offense).
Bottom line, Seattle sucked the big one from a personnel standpoint. And, right now still does. Their best receiver is Zach Miller and their OC basically refused to use him.
Holgrem left the cupboard empty and hasn’t set the league on fire in Cleveland yet. He’s a good coach, but I haven’t seen anything that says give him the personnel reigns yet. Remember, Seattle took that away from him.
That’s how I remember it. If any is incorrect, I claim senile dementia.
H
As for coaches being hired by other teams.
Well, that's the way this league works. There are probably guys that have worked for half the teams in the league. Look at Gunther Cunningham.
H
(Calico Jack)
PR, whatever our ranking in offense was in 2011, what's your point?
Is your point that now that we've lost the all mighty Saunders as OC and Huey the magnificent playcaller and hired Knapp that we are no longer capable? PFFFFT!
As I've said countless times, the offensive stat that has the most meaning by all definitions is scoring average. We were ranked #16 in scoring average ... the definition of mediocrity.
There are plenty of reasons our offense could IMPROVE in 2012. 2 obvious ones;
** A complete camp which will help Palmer and the WRs the most
**A healthy roster to include a full complement of skill players
CJ
For the record the "NappSack" may yet turn out to work...But at what odds???
The probability curve on this one has got to be negative as I posted already...
Now if Al Saunders is retained so as to keep the terminology and play book intact than that probability curve takes a nice spike upwards...
NOT that anything is guaranteed regardless of what happens...To lose or to win...But anyone who has ever followed the NFL should realize that having to instill a completely new "O" system while trying to get everyone on the same page with adequate timing and understanding of the "O" is a painstakingly slow process and is "Usually" not very productive out the gate just as we have consistently seen with the Raiders in the past...
But now also add the entire overturning of the "D" staff as well as the terminology and schemes and that doubles the chances of equating to slowed or diminishing returns...
Now add in also the "ST"s and this is a formula for failure!!!
OK!!...If that's not bad odds enough we are undertaking this experiment with a rookie "HC" who has only had one season as "DC" ever....Otherwise just an assistant "DL"/"DB"s...Now add in the fact that his one season as "DC" was in fact under a "D" coach who may or may not have had a great deal to do with that "D"s performance...Which by the way was less than average at best...
Now we sink even further as the "OC" has had a consistent tendency to fail threw time...And lets stop with the excuses about who he had for "QB" and such sense no "Excuses" have been allowed for Saunders losing his "QB"/"WR"s/"RB"s nor for the "DC" losing his "DE"/"CB"s/"S"s....
Now as regards Al Saunders: "86"-to-"12"
San Diego Chargers
(head coach)
Kansas City Chiefs
(assistant head coach)
(wide receivers coach)
St. Louis Rams
(assistant head coach)
(wide receivers coach)
Kansas City Chiefs
(offensive coordinator)
Washington Redskins
(assistant head coach)
St. Louis Rams
(offensive coordinator)
Baltimore Ravens
(offensive consultant)
Oakland Raiders
(offensive coordinator)
Al Saunders for the past 26 seasons has been either a "HC"/Assistant "HC" or "OC" and produced some nice stats in the process....Napp has NOTHING to compare with this what so ever...
So now where is the argument that Al Saunders is expendable while Napp is desirable coming from???...Just some crap pulled out of someone's ass???...
State your case!!!
PantyRaider....Probability Curve In Reverse!!!/_
"PR, whatever our ranking in offense was in 2011, what's your point?"
Very Simple!!!....Your Wrong JackLoser!!!
The more you attempt to come at me with some far fetched ignorant fantasy the more I will shove you stupidity right down your freakin throat!!!
Grow the F up and try to be a man like "NYR" who readily admitted he lost and acted accordingly with respect and honor neither of which have you been able to display!!!
I posted that it imperative that we sustain that top 10 rated "O" which in turn you tried to argue that our "O" was never a top 10 unit....
Bull Shit!!!....Your wrong JackLoser!!!
One Note: Kelley Skipper has been retained...Unknown capacity at this point??
He has had some very nice production form our "RB" both rushing and receiving so glad to see this and it should help with the stability...He has also coached "TE"s for us during Zack's time in the huddle...
Further sense I can find nothing stating that Al Saunders has left the team it appears as if he may still be involved....This will also help substantially if true...
That "Probability Curve" is relative to further info is gained threw time...Nothing is of yet written in stone!!!
PantyRaider....On Going process Of Evaluations!!!/_
When Knapp was the OC with the Whiners, they ranked 4, 8 and 5. The year after he left they went to 26 in yards and 30 in points.
Hmm—I remember pointing out that John Marshall had a #1 ranked defense with the Whiners. I was told that didn’t count because of the talent he inherited from the previous year. I believe we leapt up to #2 in sacks, were almost a top 10 defense and, I believe most would agree, he was a damn sight better than what we had this past season.
“So now where is the argument that Al Saunders is expendable”
Well, there is no argument. We are all expendable, no one is indispensable.
It appears Greg Manusky is being considered for the DC. Let the debate begin on how lousy a choice this will be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
H
Calico,
Under Knapp the Whiners were 2, 13 and 9 in points.
H
Correction:
That's 3, 13 and 9 in points.
H
>>>>
It appears Greg Manusky is being considered for the DC. Let the debate begin on how lousy a choice this will be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>>>
Oh for gawd sake NOOOOOOoooooo....
“The Chargers defense fell off after replacing Ron Rivera with Manusky while the 49ers defense surged to elite status after moving on from Manusky."
We are picking up _TWO_ trash-heap coordinators and people wonder why I am not excited?
Please Allen... at least pick up a rising star DC from college or a NFL position coach with potential... the has-beens and never-haves was supposed to have ended with Al's death, remember??
>>>>
There are plenty of reasons our offense could IMPROVE in 2012. 2 obvious ones;
>>>>
Actually there is only one.
A healthy McF for an entire season.
That is if he isn't traded before then.
There is nothing else I see with Knapp that would improve the offense, IMO.
Nobody remembers how CONSERVATIVE he was? And has been his entire career?
Gruden on his worst day was not this conservative.
Here's the quote again... I am sure everyone has compartmentalized it:
SCOUT’S TAKE: “Knapp runs a ball-control offense to the hilt. You don’t see creativity to go downfield or open it up as far as big plays go. I think a lot of that is tied into the quarterback (Matt Hasselbeck), but historically that has always been his game."
HE HAS ALWAYS BEEN CONSERVATIVE!
>>>>
Hmm—I remember pointing out that John Marshall had a #1 ranked defense with the Whiners. I was told that didn’t count because of the talent he inherited from the previous year.
>>>>
I actually liked the Marshall hire, and went to the Seattle Usenet group to ask what they thought of him, and heard some good things, and reported them here.. speaking of which, I will go back there and ask what they thought of Knapp.
And I don't care how good of a QB coach he is. That is not what he was hired to do. If he was hired as QB coach and Saunders was the OC, I would be doing back flips right now.
He has always been a predictable and ultra-conservative OC... his entire career.
I'm guessing that is why he was hired here...
Knew this one was coming.
Before Manusky took over in SF, the team was near the bottome in total yards at 26 and last in points at 32.
He improved virtually every year ranking 13, 15 and 13 his last three years with an offense that never got out of the 20's in total offense. In 2009 they ranked 4th in points allowed.
Anybody got a problem with those stats?
You cherry pick what you want, I'll cherry pick what I want.
San Diego has looked for scapegoats every year. Last year they blamed special teams coach, this year DC. Norv and Rivers are running out of people to blame.
San Diego is getting old and they can't take steroids any more, they got caught.
Bottom line--I'm going to wait and see what results we have before I climb into the bathtub and slit my wrist.
H
>>>>
You cherry pick what you want, I'll cherry pick what I want.
>>>>
Well no kidding. You are going back to SF to post glowing stats about Knapp... here's what he did before losing his OC job completely:
Look at those stats.
Here’s for Points Scored:
OC Atlanta Falcons
2004 #16 Scoring Offense
2005 #14 Scoring Offense
2006#25 Scoring Offense
OC Oakland Raiders
2007 #23 Scoring
2008 #29 Scoring
OC Seattle Seahawks
2009 #25 Scoring
There's a reason he didn't score much, IMO. He likes to sit on the ball. Always has.
This might work if McFadden stays healthy (although McF said he didn't like the offense until Hue took over) but other than that, I don't understand how anyone thinks this is anything but a step back.
Isn't it fun, H?
Hey.. here's something I like... we got new strength and conditioning coaches! Honestly... with all the skill player injuries last year, a change here is welcome! Good job.
This quote made me laugh:
"Knapps official nickname : RRPP= run, run, pass, punt."
Given his resume, Knapp is the best guy to work with Terrelle Pryor. IF Pryor doesn't cut it at QB, we won't have to wonder if better coaching would have made a difference.
GGRaider -
That thought just took Panty Raider off the list of Knapp haters.
Funny how a guy that is credited with so much success as a QB coach is being tagged as a run-only OC.
Take,
Having a blast.
Well, Cherry picking again, eh.
Ok, here we go. Knapp with the Whiners (Which you conveniently chose to exclude):
2001 - 3rd Points Scored
- 4th Total Yards
2002 - 13th Points Scored
- 8th Total Yards
2003 - 9th Points Scored
- 5th Total Yards
Those numbes were AFTER Steve Young retired.
In 2004, the year after he left they dropped to 30th in points and 26th in yards.
Phew, I'm gettin tired from picking all these cherries. I think I need a Knapp (Pun intended).
We can do this all day and night. The tale of the tape is wins and losses.
The Dolts had the top offense and top defense in terms of total yards in 2010. They went 8-8.
In the end these stats are window dressing. They're just indicators of potential not absolute predictors.
H
This is an interesting debate going on here. I went on the record saying that I did not want Saunders back. PR made some good points about keeping him for continuity, that I agreed with. I am not mad at firing him because this was Hue's offense not his.
However, the Knapp hiring is completely uninspiring. If memory serves me correctly, Take was telling me to calm down when I freaked out about Shell and B&B. Take pointed out that it was actually a hunting lodge, not a B&B.
Now we hire two mediocre coordinators and we are supposed to be optimistic because it is not Al hiring them? I don't buy that.
I killed Al for mediocre hires just as I will kill any Raider exec who make mediocre hires. I hope this works but so far this seems like a huge step back.
Jones pointed out that Hue was a QB coach and this is true. However, he was not fired as an OC by 3 teams. Huge difference.
Everyone wants to point out the success at Houston but fails to mention it is due to the fact that they have the best RB in football in one Mr. Arian Foster. Schuab's numbers were way down this year.
I am not going to say this is a for sure failure like B&B but this is definitely not a step forward.
Roy
What is all the success that Knapp had with QB's? He had the number 18 passing offense this year. Sure he lost his starting QB, and no we don't get to count him losing two because Leinert sucks.
Schuab's numbers were way down this year and there success was due to the running game not the passing game.
This is a mediocre hire and everyone knows it.
Roy
You know what RT... when Al was hiring retreads and has-beens, I didn't really freak out about it because I understood the team was nowhere close to a SB under even the rosiest of rose glasses.
This team is different. We don't NEED has-beens and career underachievers. We have a Ferrari body... we don't need to stick Honda parts into it. The offense needed very little tweaking at all... we just needed to coach up the defense (which is why I was excited about the Allen hire.)
Now that we have a OC that could possibly blow up in our face because he's been so mediocre, predictable, and conservative his entire career, you can't figure out why people are bellyaching???
NOW??
When we FINALLY have a franchise QB (that has a history of actually QUITTING if he doesn't like the offense?)
This is what I am supposed to be patient about? NOW??
I don't understand you people at all. Patience is when you know there is no hope. Not when the team is close and it could easily be blown up for no reason.
RRPP.
Run run pass punt... yea.. Carson Palmer waited for that offense for a SB.
No reason to think this could blow up...
"...you [RT] can't figure out why people are bellyaching???"
Quite a turn of the tables after years of failures and blind optimism during off-seasons, huh, Gary?
NYR & Blanda,
I think it is highly unlikely that a first year DC can be a standout OC, like you believe Allen can be. If he can be then we are in GREAT hands and we should be a serious contender next year.
I do not think this will be the case because I do believe there is a learning curve.
To be clear, I am still fired up about Allen but his first hire was uninspiring to me.
Roy
Gary,
What kind of offense do you want?
Pass, Pass, Run, Punt?
And, if not Knapp and Manusky, give us some names? Who do you want?
The Cowgirls have just denied us permission to speak to their special teams coach. And, the Geldings denied us permission to speak to their LB coach for DC.
Let's take a dose of reality here. Not everyone they want will be available, and some might just want to stay where they are.
But, consider this. Jeff Garcia was a Pro-Bowl QB in the offense Knapp ran. So was Michael Vick, though I don't understand that one.
I think Palmer wants to win. I don't believe the style of offense is more important to him than winning.
Teams that don't win, rarely send QB's to the Pro-Bowl. At least that was true before they moved the Pro-Bowl to the week before the Super Bowl.
So, that means Knapp has evidently been associated with some winning teams. Ultimately isn't that what we are looking for?
Shaub's numbers went down. Big, Fat Hairy Deal. They won their division and made it to the second round of the playoffs.
John Elway didn't win a Super Bowl until Terrell Davis got there and he didn't have to throw the ball so much. His numbers, and the teams passing numbers, were actually down the two years he lifted the Lombardi Trophy. I don't remember him bitching about it.
Drew Brees and Aaron Rogers lit up he scoreboard this year. Where are they going to be this Sunday.
Tom Brady, for all his gaudiness this season, barely escaped the Ravens due to a poorly secured pass and a missed field goal.
Flaco is being talked about like a dog. He put the ball in a perfect spot. The receiver let the ball get knocked out. He didn't miss the field goal.
When Rich Gannon won back to back Pro-Bowl MVP's I was on record saying I prefered Super Bowl MVP's bedause that usually goes to a player on the winning team, regardless of whether it is deserved or not.
Point is, let's not get so wrapped up in numbers and see what kind of TEAM shows up.
H
Look, Gary, all these years you've been arguing against my increasingly dim view of an organization that failed to make the playoffs or post a winning record.
The RESULTS ultimately supported the dim view that you vigorously argued against.
Now we are making major changes from top to bottom, and I am optimistic. Based on our history here, I would say that I've earned some analytical wait-and-see leeway.
If the Raiders stink things up, then you can have at me. Of course, in my defense, I can just post the same excuses and defenses for mediocrity that you've mounted over the years.
As for saying I'm really high on Knapp just because I'm not freaking out about him, let's keep it real. Do you recall me freaking out like that when Bresnahan became our DC? (In retrospect, I should have, but I didn't). Do I recall you freaking out when Tom Cable, with no coordinator experience, while handing head coaching duties, took over as OC?
Wow, all this sudden hysteria about coordinators and guys like Saunders who didn't even call plays. Is it sincere?
Look, Gary, all these years you've been arguing against my increasingly dim view of an organization that failed to make the playoffs or post a winning record.
The RESULTS ultimately supported the dim view that you vigorously argued against.
Now we are making major changes from top to bottom, and I am optimistic. Based on our history here, I would say that I've earned some analytical wait-and-see leeway.
If the Raiders stink things up, then you can have at me. Of course, in my defense, I can just post the same excuses and defenses for mediocrity that you've mounted over the years.
As for saying I'm really high on Knapp just because I'm not freaking out about him, let's keep it real. Do you recall me freaking out like that when Bresnahan became our DC? (In retrospect, I should have, but I didn't). Do I recall you freaking out when Tom Cable, with no coordinator experience, while handing head coaching duties, named himself as OC for a season?
Wow, all this sudden hysteria about coordinators and guys like Saunders who didn't even call plays. Is it sincere?
Raiders | Denied permission to interview Joe DeCamillis
Wed, 01 Feb 2012 09:10:41 -0800
The Oakland Raiders have been denied permission to interview Dallas Cowboys special teams coordinator Joe DeCamillis for their assistant head coaching position.
Roy -
"NYR & Blanda,
I think it is highly unlikely that a first year DC can be a standout OC, like you believe Allen can be."
Who said that?
All I said (or agreed with Blanda) was that Allen, being a defense specialist, must know more about offense than folks seem to want to give him credit. It comes with the territory.
Allen seemed to have a pretty clear idea about what he expected his offense to look like, so I doubt he just hands the keys to Knapp without that input.
Strangely, the impression I got listening to Allen about his offense is inconsistent with the perception of Knapp being conveyed here.
Is the perception off base, or is there real basis for concern? I don't know yet.
Roy and Take,
FYI, it is a B & B in eastern Idaho, but could be used as a hunting lodge. I know because I stayed there. He (Walsh) is an ass, but his wife is nice. Breakfast is mediocre.
Allen and Knapp hiring both uninspiring to me, but when GB hired McCarthy years ago I thought that was uninspiring. I even thought the Giants hiring Coughlin after getting fired from Jacksonville was also uninspiring. Both those teams seem to be doing ok. Sometimes it is just hard to know what will work and what will not. What makes this year so different than the past is the new blue print... mixing things up... changes in the way things are done, rather than "repeating the same behavior and expecting different results."
NYR,
Agreed, I probably took your comment a step farther than you intended, but I still believe this is a mediocre hire. I am suspicious that Allen is capable of designing a high level offense in his first year.
I do think it is nice for him to surround himself with coaches with more experience than he has. I am also not going to say this is a for sure failure like I did with Shell and B&B. That said, it this hire does seem like a step back on offense.
Roy
Anon:
Great points and I hope this turns out like McCarthy and not like Norv Turner.
Roy
"H"...
"The Dolts had the top offense and top defense in terms of total yards in 2010. They went 8-8."
They also had the worse "ST"s in history which gave up how many games???
This season it was the Turn Overs that literally killed their season...
So ya!!...They were great until their mistakes took them down...
Non of which really had anything to do with their "DC"...I'm nor excited nor depressed by that interview...Dennis is evidently still looking???
Knapp is a much different story if you have to go so far back to the turn of the century to find favorable stats which were diminishing and never posted on any above average level again...So he fit a specific team at at specific time in history but has never amounted to squat outside of that reference...
Kind of like that "Rat"/
Reeves with Elway or Gruden with Gannon...When that combination is there something good can happen...But when it's NOT their world was dismantled...
So how about checking how does his portfolio match up to Carson Palmer/Terrelle Pryor???...Our "RB"s/"TE"s/"WR"s....Shouldn't this be the basis of the evaluation instead of what was long ago across the Bay???
How does his "WCO"/"ZBS" make our Raiders any better or even as good as they were???
I'm all ears and would like to see something positive because as it stands I'm far from optimistic at the moment...
"NYR"/GGRaider...
If Knapp gets Pryor involved than I'm happy about that...It's what he does for the rest of our "O" that worries me???
PantyRaider...Coaching Roster Of 2!!!/_
This:
"I don't think a Allen/Knapp < Hue Jack/Saunders ticket is going to win the Oakland primary!!"
Oh!!...By the way!!
If it's going to be pimped that the "HC" is the only one that gets any credit for "V"s than shouldn't that also apply when trying to pimp your boy???
In which case Knapp never won anything...Am I right here???
At least Al Saunders has some "V"s to post on his portfolio!!!
Raiders hire Al Miller and John Grieco as Strength and Conditioning Coaches
Al Miller's mind never left the strength and conditioning field, and now his body is coming back.
Miller, who spent 21 seasons as an NFL strength and conditioning coach, accepted that position with the Oakland Raiders and will fly to Oakland on Wednesday.
Miller worked with the Denver Broncos (1985-92), the New York Giants (1993-96) and Atlanta Falcons (1997-05), and he interviewed with John Elway and the Broncos during the Senior Bowl in Mobile, Ala., this past weekend.
But he heard then-Denver defensive coordinator Dennis Allen, whom he knew from his Atlanta days, could be getting a head coaching job.
"It's been really something," Miller said of the interview process. "I received a call from John Elway, who I coached for eight years, to come down to Mobile and interview.
"But (Allen) started interviewing for head coaching jobs ... and I called (Elway) back but he didn't answer. That's when Allen and I talked over an oyster dinner. He got a second interview with the Raiders and thought he would get the job, so he started recruiting me."
Allen accepted the Raiders' job the next day, and Miller said he decided on Oakland.
Miller, a member of the inaugural hall of fame class in USA Strength and Conditioning in 2003, left the profession after the 2005 season.
His wife was diagnosed with Alzheimer's in December of 2004, and he said he wanted to spend more time at home.
"Whatever time we had left together, our dreams and our plans, had to be done at a fast pace," Miller said. "We moved back to Monroe and did as much as we could ... I had to move her into Stony Brook in October so she gets the care she needs.
"I had never wanted to get out of it ... but now the good Lord opened the doors."
Miller, a Northeast Louisiana University graduate, volunteered with ULM during his time back in Monroe. He hired ULM strength coach John Grieco as Oakland's assistant strength coach.
Grieco, who spent two seasons at ULM, said he enjoyed "talking shop" with Miller.
"He was a great resource for me, and when we got together, we would always try to figure out a better way to do things," Grieco said. "We are strength coaches at heart.
"I think what (ULM coach Todd Berry) and the staff has put together is phenomenal ... and there is no question where they are headed."
Miller has been part of four Super Bowl appearances, and he wants to help the Raiders return to that level.
"There's not a finer young man in football than (Dennis Allen) ... and I'm not saying that just because he's my boss." Miller said. "If you watch in the next 20 years, he will rise to be in that top group.
"Grieco also has a bright future. He has great communication with the kids and has a great passion for it. He also has a great work ethic and is an honest family man."
Allen continues his search for a defensive coordinator, with Greg Manusky moving to the forefront now that the New Orleans Saints denied the Raiders permission to speak with defensive line coach Bill Johnson.
Our new S&C coaches sound promising! This has been an area of weakness on the Raiders for many years... way too many non-contact type injuries to be coincidental, IMO.
Panty,
So, the DC gets fired because of all the turnovers???
Going back to the turn of the Century???
We're not talking about 1900. You have to look at the whole body of work. We're only talking about 8 years ago.
Tom Coglin was fired from Jacksonville. He's going after his second ring as an HC on Sunday.
Quite frankly, Knapp's time with Russell and Seattle can be flushed down the toilet as far as I'm concerned. Russell turned out to be useless and Seattle was crap from a personnell standpoint.
Bear Bryant once said nothing makes a coach look good like great players.
SF was worse after he left, dramatically so. Same thing in Atlanta and Petrinio snuck out of town in the middle of the night. Seattle, worse on offense after he left and still so.
With talent the guy has produced. Wouldn't you agree we have better talent than his first cup of coffee with us?
People are whining because he is a run frist guy. Well, don't we have a talented running game for him to play with?
Also, as you can see from your own post, we are not able to talk to everyone we want to.
H
"H"..
While I agree I'm not impressed...
Run 1st fits our "O"...That's who we have been under Hue/Saunders also...
But we have also been explosive...Tops in big plays 20+ yds...Unpredictable except that you have to expect the unpredictable...I for one will hate to lose that aspect of our top 10 rated "O"...It kept "DC"s off balance when it worked...
But Hue was a gambler and you win and lose on the edge with that...So a little more conservative while still being explosive would work for me...
But just how does Knapp bring anything explosive to the table???
I'm not at all excited about seeing "JC" make spectacular hand offs all season long!!!
Knapp worked well with Vick so that bodes well for my boy Pryor...That's the one plus I'm getting from this exchange so far...
Your right about the struggles to hire our coaching staff...These teams know who/what we want and are going to deny us that...
We play "NO" this season so they ain't helping us which can also be said about that damn "Donkey"...Twice...Dallas knew we wanted their man a "STC" even if we did say "Assistant HC"...Will "SF" allow us to raid them of their "DB" coach???
For any of these teams if they allow themselves to be Raided by us it leaves them with holes looking for replacements who may not be as good...So I fully understand their stance...But Dennis is running out of favorites and may have to look elsewhere for his "DC" -n- assistants...
Winston Moss is still on the table...
"H"...
The turn of the century seems rather like ancient history at this point...That's when we were 3 time AFCW Champs and a "SB" team...Just 9 seasons ago to the day...
I don't hold much in the fact that "SD" ran their "DC"....With all those "TO"s how the hell did they expect him to post great stats???
Knapp hired by Raiders as offensive coordinator
"I think it’s a great opportunity for him," Texans coach Gary Kubiak said on Wednesday. "Obviously, you don’t like losing coaches. But Greg’s been a coordinator in this league before and been successful, and he’s trying to make his way back to that opportunity and a chance to be a head coach, so we’re very happy for him. It’s a great opportunity for him. At the same time, we hate to lose him. He did a tremendous job for us, and we wish him the best."
Knapp received high praise from Kubiak this season for his work with rookie quarterback T.J. Yates after season-ending injuries to Matt Schaub and Matt Leinart. Yates started the final five games of the regular season and led the Texans to the Divisional Round of the playoffs.
Knapp and offensive coordinator Rick Dennison spent countless hours meeting with Yates and veteran backups Jake Delhomme and Jeff Garcia late in the season. The Texans used four different quarterbacks and had six on the roster in 2011.
"I’ve been in this league a long time," Kubiak said. "I’ve never seen that happen. I’ve been down to my backup a couple times and that’s tough enough in this league, and to get down to our third who was a fifth-round pick, young rookie, it’s extremely difficult.
"For us to still go as far as we did and win a playoff game have an excellent chance to win a second one, it just says a lot about the job Rico (Dennison) did, Knapp did, with the young man throughout the course of the year, and the job that our team did of lifting him up and playing well around him."
In addition to his quarterback coach duties, Knapp played a significant role in the Texans’ game-planning process with Kubiak and Dennison.
"We kind of all work together as we game plan," Kubiak said. "Knapp’s ear is through the quarterback. When you’re sitting there with Matt (Schaub) every day, you know the things that Matt likes, and he’s a guy that has to get those quarterbacks ready to play. He’s a guy relaying plays to them in their helmets on gameday for me, so it’s a big, big task; it’s going to be a tough guy to replace."
Kubiak said he’s "talking to a few guys" who could take over for Knapp but that the Texans probably won’t do anything until next week.
"I’m looking for the same type of guy," Kubiak said. "I’m looking for somebody that could help me from a game-plan standpoint, somebody that has some background from a play-caller, coordinator, those type of things, and then yet, just somebody that I know will fit with Matt Schaub. The number one thing I want to do is make sure I bring in a guy that will fit with Matt very quickly in the meeting room and we can get started on next season."
"SD" Stats:
"D"-#16
Pass-#11
Rush-#20
Sacks-#23
Scoring-#22
Int's-13
Raiders:
"D"-#29
Pass-#27
Rush-#27
Sacks-#15
Scoring-#29
Int's-#12
Anything would be an improvement!!!
>>>
nyraider said...
Our new S&C coaches sound promising! This has been an area of weakness on the Raiders for many years... way too many non-contact type injuries to be coincidental, IMO.
>>>
\
Hey! Something I can agree with!!!
This may have been LONG overdue.
>>>>
If the Raiders stink things up, then you can have at me. Of course, in my defense, I can just post the same excuses and defenses for mediocrity that you've mounted over the years.
>>>>
My excuses were mostly MANY teams suck for many years.
You didn't think that is valid.
That is why I am so surprised that now we are on the cusp of greatness after all these years, you have no problem taking two more steps back again.
You demanded a "SB quality" coaching staff.
I see a rookie HC that hires some retreaded cronies. Now that Wilie is let go... we got a Houston line coach that will certainly go almost exclusively to the ZBS.
McFadden HATED the ZBS, and we don't really have the fullback for it... so what do we do now?
Get rid of Reese and McFadden?
Plus we were in the top of the league for sacks allowed for a change... why change that??
I don't see any "plan" at all right now.
None of the hires suggest that they have any of the players in mind.
So will you REALLY be fine with a horrible team next year again?
Just because Al didn't do it?
It seems pretty petty to me.
>>>>
And, if not Knapp and Manusky, give us some names? Who do you want?
>>>>
Who do I want?
Hue Jackson and Al Saunders.
Didn't I make that clear?
I said from the beginning that if they ditch Hue they better have someone DAZZLING ready to replace him.
I can prolly live with Allen... he might be a rising star.
But he knows nothing about offense... and he hired prolly the LAST person as OC I would have wanted to see on the job.
We are not a WC-like, ZBS, ball control offense.
Its like sticking a Honda engine in a race car.
This doesn't "dazzle me" in the slightest.
This looks like a bunch of rookies desperately filling up their coaching staff with cronies.
What happened to everyone demanding a "SB quality" coaching staff??
Nobody cares now because Al is dead?
I am going to paraphrase here. someone asked Reggie Mckenzie at his PC:
Q) Reggie, are you a 3-4, or 4-3 guy.
A) 3-4, 4-3, it's all good. once you have the players, you can do whatever you want.
So don't get all wrapped up in who the coordinators are.
We've seen guys coming off super bowl teams, Josh Mcdaniel, Charlie Weis, Romeo Crennel, that didn't cut it.
Ken Wisenhunt had early success, when he had the players. but now struggles.
Haley flopped, with the Chefs. it goes on and on.
All these guys were considered top coordinators, at one time.
Follow the Mckenzie plan. get the warriors on the field, with the will to win, and set them loose.
You can draw up all the pretty plays you want. without the players, it means nothing.
"That is why I am so surprised that now we are on the cusp of greatness after all these years, you have no problem taking two more steps back again."
Gary, this is our problem. I looked at the Raiders at the end of the end of the season and saw a team that was mediocre at best, with one of the NFL's worst defenses, having just set the NFL record for penalties, finishing 8-8 and third in the weak AFC West, going 1-4 down the stretch, failing to improve upon a record that got the previous coach fired, led by a sinking coach who was losing perspective, and with a bare cupboard in the coming draft.
You, on the other hand, saw a team on "the cusp of greatness."
We're just different.
From Blanda:
I agree with 00 (and Al Davis for that matter), it's all about the players.
I like Dennis Allen as HC. Loved his PC.
I'm sure most of you have posted these updates, but I didn't have time to read everyone's take. So I'm just keeping this short.
Knapp as OC. I guess we'll have to wait and see when the season starts how Knapp calls plays. Allen went with someone he's familiar/comfortable with, hands down.
Frank Pollack has been pulled from the Texans staff to be the offensive line coach. Zone Blocking is coming back. Though this years Power Blocking was very promising
The latest moves moves include the addition of Al Miller as the strength and conditioning coach, John Greico as his assistant. Miller has had some great history in conditioning players.
Not sure about the Greg Manusky interview. Though the Raiders have been denied permission to talk to a few candidates out there. Guess plans D and E need to be taken under consideration.
"OL" In Transition Just When it Was Good!!!
Raiders | Frank Pollack hired
Wed, 01 Feb 2012 14:44:17 -0800
The Oakland Raiders hired Frank Pollack as their new offensive line coach Wednesday, Feb. 1, according to a source. Pollack was previously with the Houston Texans, and he’ll replace former coach Bob Wylie.
Wisniewski retained on Allen’s staff
Not sure how the responsibilities will break down with offensive line hire Frank Pollack, but the Raiders have retained the services of assistant line coach Steve Wisniewski.
Both Pollack and Allen were assistant line coaches last season, Pollack under John Benton and Wisniewski under Bob Wylie.
Pollack was a tackle as an NFL player, Wisniewski a guard. Haven’t heard whether they’ll be co-line coaches or if there will be a line coach and an assistant.
The Raiders had co-line coaches one time in 2006 under Art Shell and it was a disaster, with Irv Eatman and Jackie Slater essentially taking their cue from Shell.
Fassel replacement hired; Saunders on the move
Allen hired Steve Hoffman as the special teams coordinator today. That fills the vacancy created by the departure of John Fassel to the St. Louis Rams.
In other news, Raiders offensive coordinator Al Saunders has interviewed with the Kansas City Chiefs for their offensive coordinator opening. That indicates that Allen has no intention of retaining Saunders in any capacity — he already hired Greg Knapp to be the offensive coordinator — or Saunders isn’t interested in coming back in a lesser role than the one he filled in 2011.
>>>
Gary, this is our problem. I looked at the Raiders at the end of the end of the season and saw a team that was mediocre at best, with one of the NFL's worst defenses, having just set the NFL record for penalties, finishing 8-8 and third in the weak AFC West, going 1-4 down the stretch, failing to improve upon a record that got the previous coach fired, led by a sinking coach who was losing perspective, and with a bare cupboard in the coming draft.
>>>
well yea... we are different.
The team played well offensively despite losing their MVP RB and their starting QB.
These things are meaningless to you because you only pay attention to wins and losses.
Oh... except now of course... suddenly wins and losses are meaningless because Al died.
Now its patience.
Well my personal opinion at this point:
While I have found some favorable words of encouragement from Gary Kubiac showing that Knapp was actually involved in the Game Planning this season and worked wonders with their 5th rd Rookie "QB" it's still a huge set back for this "O" in the short term...A completely new "O" including terminology will not go swiftly and is sure to produce slow returns in the short term...
Indications are now that our "OL" will be returning to the "ZBS"...Do our current players even fit that scheme???...This just when that unit had finally become a top 5 rated unit "Consistently"!!!...Now how damn long has it been sense we could even speculate on such quality in a Raiders "OL" and how long will it be before we can again???...This transition is NOT an easy undertaking and will surely cost us in diminished returns in the short term...
"RB"s coach retained which is nice considering the advancements of our core of backs...
Strength-n- Conditioning additions are great...
New "STC" is an unknown to me at this point???
The "D" is expected to be vastly improved even if we lack a single coach as yet....
In the long term will this transition even work??...And how far down the road before it starts paying substantial dividends???...At least back to that top 10 "O" that we already had???...Will it ever reach that point or even exceed it???
Houston's "O" finished at #13 slightly below our #9 with a few injuries relating to our banged up "O" as well...But that's with their roster and their complete staff...How will ours perform???
Houston's "OL" was #13 well below our #5...How will that "ZBS" translate to our "OL" now???...How many seasons have their "OL" been in that same blocking scheme???...How long will it now take us to make a similar transition???
Our Passing "O" was #11 to Their #18
Our Rush was #7 to their #2 but we were in the top 2 most of the season...
We were only #16 scoring to their #10...
So comparatively this is evidently what we are trying to achieve while also improving on the "D" side of the ball...
So in conclusion unless our "D" can make some very rapid strides I don't expect to be posting a winning record early on and suspect we will be playing form behind if we have a shot at the "PO"s at all...This is my short term view of this next season....
I'm not even going to try and project a long term view until I see something actually positive on that turf!!!!
PantyRaider...Law Of Diminishing Returns!!!!/_
2006 Atlanta Falcons coaching staff. Coach Allen is going with what he knows from his past. Though his last year in Atlanta was in 2005.
Offensive Coordinator – Greg Knapp
Quarterbacks – Bill Musgrave
Assistant Quarterbacks – Robert Prince
Running Backs – Ollie Wilson
Wide Receivers – George Stewart
Tight Ends – Clancy Barone
Offensive Line – Tom Cable
Assistant Offensive Line – Chris Dalman
Consultant – Alex Gibbs
Defensive Coordinator – Ed Donatell
Defensive Line – Bill Johnson
Linebackers – Chris Beake
Senior Defensive Assistant/Secondary – Emmitt Thomas
Defensive Backs – Brett Maxie
Defensive Assistant – Joe Lombardi
Special Teams Coordinator – Joe DeCamillis
Assistant Special Teams – Steve Hoffman
Raiders seek permission to talk with Packers' cornerbacks coach
The Raiders have requested permission from the Packers to interview cornerbacks coach Joe Whitt about their defensive coordinator job, a league source said Wednesday night.
New Oakland general manager Reggie McKenzie knows Whitt from his years in the Packers' front office. The 33-year-old Whitt joined Green Bay's staff in 2008.
Jerry McDonald - Packers CB coach Joe Whitt Jr., of interest to Raiders for DC, did not work with DAllen in Atlanta. Both mentored by Emmitt Thomas, however. 02-02
Jerry McDonald - @code707 Nobody's been `fired' except possibly Saunders. Contracts ran out. Doubt Bresnahan is being considered to return in coach capacity 02-02
“Who do I want?
Hue Jackson and Al Saunders.
Didn't I make that clear?
I said from the beginning that if they ditch Hue they better have someone DAZZLING ready to replace him.”
Now, what was so “DAZZLING” about the dynamic duo?
From an overall team standpoint, I felt we went backwards toward the end of the season.
Bush should have been carrying the ball 25 times, he averaged less than 20. The tight end pretty much disappeared. Sometimes Hue looked lost on the sidelines. Might not have been, but it was just the expression on his face.
Raider00,
Yep, it’s like the Bear used to say, nothing makes a coach look good like great players. He was also of the belief that coaches lose more games than players. Whenever Alabama lost he would always talk about what a bad coaching job was done, including himself. When they won, he heaped praise on the players.
He was able to continue winning with several different offensive and defensive schemes over the decades. Which always made me wonder why some coaches are so inflexible about particular systems.
With Pollack and Wisniewski it will be interesting which system we use, or will it be some sort of hybrid. Khalif Barnes was a human false start machine at some times, but he definitely performed better at RT than he ever did at LT. I thing the line only gave up 25 sacks. A significant drop from previous years.
From injuries to the WR’s and McFadden to the defensive collapses you can find a lot of faults with the team. The OL was one of the major positives. Those guys, more than anything else, may be why Carson Palmer is excited. At least they say he is. Whoever “they” are.
H
"H"...
I have also seen others speculating about some sort of Hybrid "OL" Scheme..."PBS"/"ZBS" Combo...But not sure how that would work???
It seems that the slightest confusion causes a huge breakdown in the "OL" blocking...Each has to know where the others are and be able to depend upon them doing their job or giving an assist when needed...It's like a well choreographed dance when working properly but like a grade school class of misfits when it doesn't...The later is what we have seen most often over the past decade...
This as you know has been one area of my greatest concern...Just when we are a top 5 NFL unit it's going to get screwed up???...If so how long does it take us to get it back???
So how would you combine both schemes as one???...I'm frankly at a loss as to how that would work...
Do you employ one scheme on certain plays and another scheme on others???...If so it won't take a "DC" long to figure out your plays based upon alignment and blocking techniques....Anything that gives away your intentions is hazardous...NO??
Or do you scheme one side of your "OL" to employ the "PBS" while the other is in a "ZBS"???...Sorta like having your "CB"s play man as your "S"s play Zone???
Or perhaps you power block up the middle while Zoning the outside???
Or power block some opponets while Zoning others???...Change at the half???
I really don't get it on this one as you can see....
Nice if it works but sounds like a confused mess and likely a disaster!!!
PantyRaider...The Cross Eyed Two Left Footed Blocking Scheme!!!/_
This is the one thing that gives me some hope for Knapp's "O" going forward....Will he have Carson's ear or Pryor's???
"We kind of all work together as we game plan," Kubiak said. "Knapp’s ear is through the quarterback. When you’re sitting there with Matt (Schaub) every day, you know the things that Matt likes, and he’s a guy that has to get those quarterbacks ready to play. He’s a guy relaying plays to them in their helmets on gameday for me, so it’s a big, big task; it’s going to be a tough guy to replace."
If he can get into the head of his "QB"s early on than maybe this transition will get accelerated but that's a huge "IF"!!!
PantyRaider...Odds Say NO!!!/_
Hey, I'm not the only one:
Paul Gutierrez - http://tinyurl.com/7hmsb2l
He makes many of the same observations I made about Knapp. Including going back to the dark ages at the "turn of the century." You know, all the way back to eight years ago.
He also discusses the "retread" aspect of coaching almost exactly as I did.
Do you think he's reading my post and writng his articles based on them? Do I have a case for him stealing my intellectual property? Or, perhaps, I missed my calling and should start my own column.
I wonder if they would pay me in beer.
H
Whoa, wait just a minute, did I read this right:
"These things are meaningless to you because you only pay attention to wins and losses."
So, we're not supposed to pay attention to wins and losses?
I do believe Dennis Allen said in his news conference that wins and loses IS how he would be ultimately judged.
If he didn't say something to that affect, please correct me.
H
I've been watching the arguments regarding the Allen hires and it tends to highlight the point I've been making, low these many years.
Just because you get rid of Al Davis, that doesn't mean we'll suddenly start winning Super Bowls again.
All you've done is found someone else to make the decisions. Okay, you've reorganized the organization so that it now resembles everyone else's organization. That doesn't mean we will now compete directly with New England. Just ask Cleveland or Detroit.
I stuck by Davis because for twenty years he ran a professional organization, different from anyone else in professional sports and put up the best record, not just throughout pro football but ALL pro sport franchises. I figured that as long as he was lucid, he could at least return us to the playoffs after seven years of losing.
Now we begin an era with an owner, a GM and a Head Coach who have NEVER performed in those capacities before. None of them will have any record at all in their new capacity until after the first regular season game is played in 2012.
And with all that, I seem to have more faith than many here. Bringing someone new does not at all portend that the newbie will agree with you on the decisions that need to be made. You have to step back, look at the logic behind the choice, and hope for the best. If there is initial failure, one hopes for patience.
My expectation is that someone without a record will garner less patience than someone with a sound record.
How many seasons will Allen get if he fails to produce a winner? How many HC hires will McKenzie get if he fails to produce a winning coach?
It is, indeed, a brave new world.
>>>>>
I do believe Dennis Allen said in his news conference that wins and loses IS how he would be ultimately judged.
>>>>
True to an extent. But there also has to be common sense involved.
If Knapp has to play without McF for most of the year, and Palmer has to deal with injured receivers all year (or worse yet, gets injured himself) I am not going to pay as much attention to the wins and losses.
Same as I did last year.
You can't just say "every team has injuries."
Not every team can be in the hunt after their starting QB AND leading rusher goes down.
I keep saying "Look at what happened to Chicago" and I keep getting ignored.
"BR"...
You just highlighted the reality but it will go unnoticed by those who's celebration is only in their perceived freedom from tyranny and has nothing to do with logical decisions!!!
Gary...
Add to Chicago:
Buffalo "WR"/"RB"
"KC" "RB"/"QB"
Vikes Peterson
"SD" losing their "OL"
All of these teams fell on their faces as a result of a few injuries while we maintained in the face of many...
Houston lost their "QB"/"WR" but kept up the pace which is NOT the norm and they said so...
But as you know all of that is just an excuse!!!
But than when they want to positively rate an "OC" that they want to pimp than he's excused because back when he had "JeBustus" and an injured "D-Mac"...LoL!!!
Consistency on this board is NOT a reality!!!
But This From "RT":
"Let's keep the these threads honest."
LoL!!!
That was right in line with all that "Intellectual Honesty"!!!
"I keep saying "Look at what happened to Chicago" and I keep getting ignored."
That's because it's a ridiculous comparison... unless you think having Michael Bush and spending 2 top draft picks on Palmer is no better than relying on marginal, unproven backups to fill in.
"You can't just say 'every team has injuries.'"
Sure I can. Because they do. It's what the coach does when those injuries occur that counts.
You can't say McFadden is the main reason, because we had a pretty good replacement for him. Maybe not as fast, but the guy produced over 1,300 yards as an RB, and will probably be the top free agent running back out there.
Also, McFadden didn't play defense. Neither did Campbell. You keep pointing to those guys as excuses, but niether of those guys were on the field when Detroit went 99 yards. Nor were they on the field when Tebow torched us with all those option runs after THE OFFENSE had given us a pretty good lead. Or, when Buffalo scored the winning TD on fourth down with time running out, after the offense had given us the lead.
Basically, we had only one semi-major injury on defense, and they played like crap. That last part is undeniable. You can't use injuries on offense as an excuse for a deplorable performance by the defense.
You keep pointing to the injuries on offense. None of those players played a single down for the defense that gave up 27 points a game and allowed all those comebacks.
The head coach is responsible for the team. Not just one segment of the team.
Your argument for injuries doesn't hold water, because the offense, for the most part, held up its end of the bargain.
"I keep saying "Look at what happened to Chicago" and I keep getting ignored."
Apples and oranges. Chicago didn't drop a first and second on a QB. Neither did they have a backup of the quality of Michael Bush.
Hell, even against Texas Huff had to intercept a pass in the end zone as time expired.
Once again, it was the defense that was the bain of our existance.
Bottom line, wins and loses.
H
For those looking for a young, up and coming coordinator, here he is:
Joe Whitt Jr. is next up to be interviewed for the DC position according to latest rumors. Manusky has taken the DC position at Indy.
H
"H"...
Com'on!!...What up with this crap???
"Basically, we had only one semi-major injury on defense,"
Go look at the list:
"DE"/"LB"/"CB"s/"S"s...We had to go shopping for replacements to man a starting lineup!!!
I see some pretty ignorant arguments being thrown around here now...Short memory or what???
"unless you think having....Palmer is no better than relying on marginal, unproven backups to fill in."
Reality Check!!!
That's what we had and it cost us that game against "KC"!!...Remember???
"Bi-Boller" syndrome took us down while Palmer tried to play without any quality prep...That one game cost us the season!!...Right???
Than comes that "Donkey" loss...Remember those 3 "TO"???...Was that on the "D" too???...Or was it the after effects of having to take a "QB" off his couch???...2nd game that cost us the season!!
Than we had 3 weeks of good football followed by 3 weeks of a "Sleep Walking" "D"!!!...2 weeks of that was aided by a "Sleep Walking" "O"!!!...
Those 3 games cost us the season...Right???
Than we had one good "OT" "V" followed by another "Sleep Walk" and that finished our season...
But don't even begin to pimp that losing "JC" had noting to do with our losing...At least 2 losses were directly connected to that single event!!!
PantyRaider...Let be Real Here Folks!!!/_
""Let's keep the these threads honest." Right "RT"???
"Just because you get rid of Al Davis, that doesn't mean we'll suddenly start winning Super Bowls again"
**********************************
As great aa Al Davis was, Al guided the Raiders to 5 SB appearances, and 3 victories.
He did this over a span of about 50 years.
If Reggie Mckenzie, & Dennis Allen are around for ten years, and produce even one championship, I'll be happy.
This is the new reality of sports today.
The team gets built up. then torn down. then built up again.
It probably won't be as much of a "family", as it was when Al ran things.
It will be more of a business.
Maybe this is good. maybe it's bad. only time will tell.
As Rick Patino might say, Al Davis is not going to walk through that door again...
I wish Al could come back again, as a 30 year old sharpshooter. But he cannot.
And to be honest. the sight of Al as an 80 yr old GM, was a little bit sad to see.
..."Jones pointed out that Hue was a QB coach and this is true. However, he was not fired as an OC by 3 teams..."
Hue was fired by 2 teams as an OC, 2/ one year stints. So I'll ask again, what's the difference?
Some are making out like Hue was an Offensive guru and was making magic out of dust. Why are all the other teams jumping at hiring Hue if he was so great? Also, the same people are screaming that Saunders is one of the best Offensive minds in football?
Then these same people are saying for others to stop twisting the truth. Why bother, they haven't played a down. I have put out an offer to put up or shut up and not one response. If the 'doom and gloomers' are so confident that the team is going to suck, why won't they take the bet?
JONES
Panty,
I stand by that statement.
Chris Johnson was pretty much a non-factor the whole season. Even when healthy.
The LB's were fairly healthy the whole season. Arron Curry was not traded for beause of injuries. Quentin Groves was the starter and he was demoted to special teams.
On the DL Matt Shaughnessy had a season ending injury.
Other than Shaughnessy, the DL had a few nicks and dings, but nothing major.
No one else missed the significant time players did on offense, which some point to as the reason for the team's failures.
The season long performance of the defense was nothing short of dismal.
Plus, you are somewhat proving my point. The team was very, very inconsistent. That's coaching.
But if there was consistency on the defense, it was the wrong kind.
H
If you want to be real....Hue sold the farm to get that QB that 'lost' the KC game...Hue is the one who threw him out there unprepared. Hue also "didn't have time to go over the gameplans" with his new QB and Hue did nothing to make the Defense adjust to improve their poor performance...the sky is falling, the sky is falling.
We don't have the leader who lead us to a record in losing and the new Org can't hold his jock? The old leader was given every excuse in the book because of his losing but the new Org is mocked and they haven't even had a mini-camp yet? Talk about mental masterbation, this board is ready to burst with mental sperm. Calm down kids, at least wait until we see how the camps are going to go before you blow your wad.
JONES
...."But don't even begin to pimp that losing "JC" had noting to do with our losing..."
I thought you said 'JC' sucked? You were screaming for Pryor, "why isn't Pryor being used?". I'm sure that would have won the KC game, huh? Keep it honest? My ass, you just want to keep it 'turmoiled' because it seems to turn your yank. PROVOCATEUR, you and your twin Gary are the kings.....kid's game, not a "man's game".
JONES
...."Just because you get rid of Al Davis, that doesn't mean we'll suddenly start winning Super Bowls again....."
Nobody said it would, what it does do is set the table for the possibility. When Mr.Davis was in total control....a record in losing happened and the team never made it over .500 and that goes back to the 90's. So it was a proven fact that Mr.Davis' method of running the team was not successful no matter how many times gary writes that the team was "on the cusp of greatness".
So now what is in place is a proven method of winning. Hire a GM, who hires the HC, the create the team that want and the HC hires a staff that has to work to create that vision.
It's no longer a HC/OC who answers to the owner/GM and has to accept the assistant coaches that the owner/GM hires. The Defense is now run under the vision of the HC and run by the DC he hires. No longer is the Defense run by the owner/GM who hires a stooge as a DC and using an antiquated system/scheme.
No longer is the team seperated as 2 different entities = Offense run by 'HC/OC' and the defense run by the owner/GM who do not even communicate about the defensive side of the ball. The HC/OC just having to accept that he has no say in the Defense as per Hue's quotes.
Now, the Defense doesn't even hear from the HC/OC, thus no need to even respect him = undermining his authority. It's not conducive to wins. The method we are seeing put in place is conducive to wins...but....some are screaming for the old system because they just don't know.
These screamers make out as though THEY are the authorities on what is occurring when throughout all the losing, they screamed and pounded their fists that those who didn't go along with Mr.Davis' method, were traders and not real fans......does that pretty much sum it up?
JONES
Freakin Blackstock was starting 2 games at "MLB"...Anyone remember that???
Starters Out: Games Started...
"MLB" Rolando McClain 14 starts
"CB" Stanford Routt 15 starts
"DE" Lamarr Houston 12 starts
"FS" Michael Huff 11 starts
"DT" Richard Seymour* 15 starts
"CB" Chris Johnson 3 starts
"DE" Matt Shaughnessy 3 starts
Back Ups Out: Games Played...
"DT" John Henderson 13 games
"SS" Michael Mitchell 12 games
"DE" Jarvis Moss 13 games
"CB" Demarcus Van Dyke 12 games
"CB" Chimdi Chekwa 4 games
"DE" Trevor Scott 14 games
"FS" Eugene, Hiram 0 games
"LB" Goethel, Travis 0 games
"LB" Ricky Brown "IR"
Players added as Starters:
"S" Matt Giordano 8 starts
"CB" Lito Sheppard 7 starts
"LB" Aaron Curry 11 starts
"S" Jerome Boyd 1 start
Joe Porter 1 start
Added as Back-ups
"DB" Bryan McCann 7 games
"S" Nedu Ndukwe 1 game
"CB" Sierling Moore
"DB" Ron Parker
Now how the hell can anyone look at this list and say our "D" was NOT affected by injury???
We had more injury on the "D" than we did on the "O"!!!
PantyRaider...Set The Record Straight!!!/_
"H"...
And I don't care how many times you want to pimp these injured plays as not being very good...They were our starters and thus the best we had...It hurt us to lose them for "Significant" games while having to start rookies of inferior back-ups in their place...
That's 39 games lost by our starters...
That's 60+ games lost by our Back-Ups...
Now that's "Significant" time lost!!!
Panty,
I'm not pimping anything.
Every team has injuries. Injuries wasn't the reason our defense left a Buffalo player wide open on fourth down. Injuries wasn't the reason we had our MLB covering Calvin Johnson, or allowing Detroit to go 99 yards.
Injuries was not the reason we couldn't tackle Tebow. Our guys were constantly out of place.
Yet, I've heard well if only McFadden hadn't been injured.
We had one of the worse 4th quarter defenses in the league, and one of the worse in the history of this team. There's way too much talent for that to happen.
H
Another thing, I'm not saying those players weren't very good. I'm saying the coaching, game planning and play calling sucked the big one.
H
"H"...
"Injuries wasn't the reason we had our MLB covering Calvin Johnson"
This one was affected because we were down to an injury stripped back field so short on "DB"s to play the Nickle-n-Dime packages...Thus the "Cover-II" with "Ro" running deep...It sucked but that's what "SuckChuck" went to...
And I'm NOT supporting or excusing anything that bastard did here...Just stating the case for the depleted "D" and as that translates to a new "DC" if we can keep all these guys healthy...
This Just In:
Raiders Add Seven to Coaching Staff
The Oakland Raiders have added seven coaches to the 2012 coaching staff, including three assistants who were with the Silver and Black last season.
Kelly Skipper returns for his sixth season with the Raiders and his fourth as running backs coach, while Frank Pollack joins the Silver and Black as offensive line coach. Steve Wisniewski will serve as assistant offensive line coach after spending last season in the same capacity, while Al Miller joins the staff as strength and conditioning coach and will be assisted by John Grieco. Defensive quality control coach Eric Sanders returns to the Raiders for his third season, while former Raiders fullback Justin Griffith assumes offensive quality control duties.
http://www.raiders.com/news/article-1/Raiders-Add-Seven-to-Coaching-Staff/8e1c9156-f096-474b-a32f-27923018fbd5
THE 2012 SEASON: A POST-MORTEM
It's hard to beleive that it's a day before Groundhog's Day, yet, the Raiders 2012 season is all but lost. It is understandable that fans would be tempted to try and reconstruct what has transpired and wonder "what went wrong?" Yes, how could a season filled with so much promise be caput before it has even begun? To perform the inquiry, you have to wind the clock back to the early off-season.
That first week of January which was filled with so much promise. Finally, the Raiders would get a GM with real power, and a coach who could choose his own assistants. Back then, the sky was the limit. Super Bowl? heck, yeah! Reggie McKenzie seemed like the guy with the right pedigree, part the Ron Wolf management tree, a former Raider. But then, it all started to go horribly wrong. In his first presser Reggie used the word "irregardless". This blog understandably blew up. How the heck can a man have an eye for football talent if he makes up words and dangles participles? Reggie could see he was out of his grammatical depth. In order to obfuscate his verbal shortcomings and realizing that they would prevent any proven coach from coming aboard, he reached and chose a coach who had no ties to the silver & black and probably thinks the Ghost to the Post is a blogging term for a guy who kicks the bucket while venting his spleen on this site.
Dennis Allen in his first presser failed the first test of a Raider head coach. Dennis Allen wore a black & white tie to the event, not a black & silver tie. Huejack never would have made such an obvious sartorial blunder. Heck, Big Al never would have let him on the stage.
Just when the season seemed like the season couldn't get any more off course, Allen sealed the team's fate by hiring Greg Knapp as its new offensive coordinator. Fans shrewdly realized that this must mean that the team would be completely re-built to suit ZBS and a west coast offense. What else could it mean? This offensive scheming stuff is complicated!! Ever tried to enrich uranium? Then, you know what I'm talking about. How could or would a guy like Knapp be able to run anything else? even if his team was drafted for a completely different scheme? But it was too late, there was not going back. Fans were left to look ahead to 2013 and hope for better days.
Many players when asked about these moves agreed that there wasn't much hope. Some candidly questioned whether they should keep going through the motions and show up for this Spring's OTAs. Why risk injury? Better to save it for 2013 when the lessons of 2012 could be addressed. To a man, they all agreed with the provferbial words of Al Davis; that the greatness of the Raiders is in its future.
GG...well said, but, according to one poster on here, the next season will be the 2013 season, doesn't matter if all but a few games are played in 2013, it will still be the 2013 season. The 2012 season is almost done and will be done after the SB.
They don't understand that the OC will be doing what the HC wants and what the GM hired his HC to do. It won't be up to the OC to decide what Offense to run..they don't understand this 'new' chain of command. Please forgive them, for they do not know.
JONES
>>>>
Every team has injuries.
>>>>
Name a team that lost their best RB and their starting QB and overcame it.
>>>
Injuries wasn't the reason our defense left a Buffalo player wide open on fourth down. Injuries wasn't the reason we had our MLB covering Calvin Johnson, or allowing Detroit to go 99 yards.
>>>>
There could easily have been more points on the board with a healthy McFadden.
>>>
Injuries was not the reason we couldn't tackle Tebow. Our guys were constantly out of place.
>>>
That was the game Carson played with two weeks practice.
And still no McF.
BIG DIFFERENCE.
>>>>
Yet, I've heard well if only McFadden hadn't been injured.
>>>>
Are you trying to say we wouldn't have scored more points or something? How many games was the defense gassed because it was almost impossible to get a first down?
>>>
We had one of the worse 4th quarter defenses in the league, and one of the worse in the history of this team. There's way too much talent for that to happen.
>>>>
Wool yea... thats why I liked the Allen hire.
But the offense without losing McF and Campbell would have gave us two more victories SOMEWHERE.
Easy.
We were in the top 5 in offense before it happened.
A few of those blowouts I attribute to the team as a whole knowing they didn't have enough fire power to come back after falling behind by 14.
Ya think New Orleans ever felt that way last season? Or NE?
Our offense was right up there before the key injuries.
We were averaging 27 points a game before Campbell got injured (and McF the next game).
20 points a game after the Houston game.
That extra TD a game wouldn't have came in handy or something?
...Further... how many times did we watch Bush whiff on picking up the blitzer after McF went down? 10?
How many times did we see Bush in open space where he lumbers ahead for 20 yards where with McF it could have easily been a TD? 6?
How important would it have been with McF in the red zone when we were struggling so bad towards the end of the year?
You can't just say "everyone has injuries."
Not when you have a game-changer like McF... especially when his backup was nullified simply by sticking 8 in the box.
8 in the box would be SUICIDE vs McF.
Those outside tosses would go for 20 to 30 a pop.
Gary,
What you say about Mcfadden is true.
He's a great back, and had he been healthy all year, it could have changed everything.
But isn't it also the problem ?
Mcfadden, unfortunately, is hurt a lot.
Can the Raiders count on him for 16 games next year ?
Should they build an offense around a player so brittle ?
Personally, if some team offered a top ten pick for Mcfad, i probably would trade him.
Anything less would be a tough call.
I know this much. Mckenzie & Allen are preaching toughness, and attitude.
So any player that spends most of his time in the trainers room, will not be lasting long with the Raiders.
No matter how talented they are.
Players are going to be expected to be on the field. Play tough and smart, in the big moments of games. Rise to the occation, when game is on the line.
We can't say Mcfad has done much of this so far in his career, can we ?
Clinging to the past and making excuses for past failures is an exercise in futility. What's the point?
Going into the 2012 season, I expect there to be significant injuries that the Raiders will need to deal with. It is the nature of a violent game and long season.
Luck, toughness, a good conditioning program, depth, and coaching will be variables that come into play for overcoming the injuries.
GGRaider, don't be a stranger, because that was classic!
Great points, CJ.
And last year, when Packers won the SB.
Didn't they lose their starting RB, for the season with injury ?
They didn't make excuses, and fold up.
They fought on, and won it all.
Just goes to show what a little toughness can do for a team.
>>>>
And last year, when Packers won the SB.
Didn't they lose their starting RB, for the season with injury ?
>>>>
1. Do the Packers even have a lead RB?
2. Did they lose their starting QB too?
Aaron Rodgers goes down, no Packer fan would be going... "Well everyone has injuries."
They would be fucked.
Despite the gaudy numbers Flynn put up with no pressure (I can't wait to see who gets stuck with that sack of shit next year.)
>>>
Should they build an offense around a player so brittle ?
>>>>
What other choice do we have?
Trade him I guess... is that what you WANT?
Pray he keeps getting injured (with the new team) while praying the 50/50 proposition draft pick we get turns out also???
Look... the only chance the Raiders have of a SB title next season is with McFadden healthy the entire season.
To pretend otherwise is people blowing smoke up everyones ass.
You wouldn't let me do that if Al was alive.
>>>>
Look... the only chance the Raiders have of a SB title next season is with McFadden healthy the entire season.
>>>>
Check that... Mcf/Palmer healthy all season.
Anything less we are 7-9 tops.
Who really wants to pretend otherwise?
BTW.. everything I read about our new training specialists might be the best hires of the off season.
I think the Raiders may have had some of the worst trainers in the NFL.
Too many injuries, too many second half collapses.
Just a guess here...
On trading McFadden. It would be one of the riskiest gambles in the history of the NFL...
It would divide the Raider Nation.
If fe goes somewhere else and lights it up? Especially if the Raiders struggle... we are talking EMPTY STADIUM by the end of the year.
He brings excitement and hope.
If St. McK and Little Davis trade him, they deserve empty stadiums for years to come if it doesn't turn around quickly.
No way any business person takes such a wild gamble...
Gary,
First off, I think it is important to distinguish 3 categories as it relates to injuries and the Raiders of last year.
(1) a winning record
(2) qualifying for the playoffs
(3) reaching or winning the SB
At 7-4, a winning record was very much in reach but we fell short because of our D NOT BECAUSE OF INJURIES. Our QB (Palmer) was healthy, our offense played fairly well but our D let us down.
9-7 would have qualified for the playoffs. Going 2-3 instead of 1-4 down the stretch would have been enough. Once again, keep spinning and redirecting but when the chips were down, a healthy D played poorly.
We were not on the 'cusp of greatness' and category 3 was only a pipe dream. BTW, no one in their right mind expects a team to win the SB with a back-up QB. However to continue to insist that our starting QB (Campbell) getting hurt was our "down-fall" is way off base and you know it.
To even suggest that our injuries were the reason we came up short is nothing but another lame excuse.
GG... did you just coin a phrase that I'll be circulating in the office VERY soon? "Venting his SPLEEN"? are you kidding... that was freaking awesome!!! haHaarr!!! Flat out smack vernacular dude... Right on.
I did not notice the tie gaffe, but, then again, ties have no place around a working man's neck. Even an office guy like myself. The inventor of that silly fashion should be shot.
Whatever... but hey, your post deserved props. Cheers.
GGRaider....
You are funny....Keep it coming I like it!!!
"a guy who kicks the bucket while venting his spleen on this site."....Demon!!!
Raider00...
The one knock on "DMac" is that he won't shoot up for the pain and play....Most every other back will...Maybe the new training staff can make a difference???
But also one knock on Hue was that he was way too soft on his players...If "DMac" could have played if we made the "PO"s than he sure as hell could have helped us against "SD" and just maybe Hue would still be here???
NO to trading "DMac"!!!
"What's the point?"
It's the present fool!!!...2012 when the season ended on 1/1...Now how the hell is that the "Past"???
Talkin "JackSmack" don't account for shit!~!!
NFL will help 49ers pay for new stadium in Santa Clara
INDIANAPOLIS -- The NFL has approved a decision to loan $200 million to the San Francisco 49ers to help finance a new stadium in Santa Clara, Calif., where the team's headquarters are located.
Team president and CEO Jed York said the construction timeline -- which was part of the proposal to the NFL -- projects that the stadium will be built by 2015, but added that the stadium could be done by 2014.
LoL!!!...This:
The 49ers play in Candlestick Park. The stadium made headlines when the lights went out twice during the 49ers game against the Steelers on Dec. 19.
So shut off the freakin lights and light up the $$$$$ flow for your stadium deal....How freakin shrewd!!!...That's almost as good as having "Dead Voters" pass you bid!!!
"fell short because of our D NOT BECAUSE OF INJURIES."
Stupid!!...The injuries were on that "D" and we were still without our "WR"s!!!
"9-7 would have qualified for the playoffs"
Ya! Stupid...So that "KC" or "Donkey" loss would have put us in the "PO"s Fool!!!
"to continue to insist that our starting QB (Campbell) getting hurt was our "down-fall" is way off base and you know it."
More convoluted "JackSmak" that ignores all reality!!!
"To even suggest that our injuries were the reason we came up short is nothing but another lame excuse."
Your take is "BS" -n- Ignorant of anything/everything relating to football...
Just continue showing your negative football "IQ" Baby!!!
Yo!!...I think I'll strap on the pads and go play again....Whoops I can't...I'm injured!!!
BR"...Ya want to go run some laps?...Whoops you prolly can't because your injures won't allow it!!!
"H"...Ya want to climb Mt Everest???...Whoops you can't because of the injuries!!!
Demon ya want to live??....Fuck off and die your lame!!!
"JackSmack" ya wanna show some football intelligence??....Nope!!...I see you can't due to the mental injuries suffered as a result of eating that crap that the Demon sent you!!!
"To even suggest that our injuries were the reason we came up short is nothing but another lame excuse."
Ya you freain "JackAss"!!...Because they were "Lame"!!!
Let the controversy begin!!!
Peyton Manning’s doctor gives QB clearance to play
INDIANAPOLIS (AP)—Peyton Manning has received the OK from his surgeon to start taking hits again.
A spokesman for Dr. Robert Watkins said in a one-paragraph email sent late Thursday night that the Colts’ star was cleared to play.
ESPN, citing unidentified sources, first reported Manning had been cleared.
The Colts contend that is nothing new because Manning was cleared to practice in December, a move that would have also allowed the quarterback to start playing again. But it backs up Manning’s contention from earlier this week that his recovery from September neck surgery is on schedule.
So what would you take with the 1st pick and Payton???
A)...You win the Luck sweepstakes as you take your lumps while he adapts to the NFL level...
Possible huge dividends in the long term??
B)...You stay with Payton and hope he can make it threw another season or 2...
Short term may or may not pay huge dividends but long term probability is very short!!!
Prolley can't pay both but your on the hook for that huge $$$$ Cap hit...
"Name a team that lost their best RB and their starting QB and overcame it." (Gary)
Man, get over it! If you think so poorly of Michael Bush and Carson Palmer then 2012 is already a bust in your mind. In that case, think positive; think 2013! As GG says, 2013 is when we will learn from all the mistakes you believe we are sure to make (and have already made) in 2012.
You gave Al Davis the last nine years without even flinching. The least you could do is give McKenzie more than a couple weeks to earn your trust.
"NYR"...
"Earn" is the key word now isn't it..
For you and some others it's "Earned" the moment he stepped on the job and fulfilled your elusive dreams...It may become "UnEarned" if he screws this opportunity up???
For some others he was given a job and now has to prove himself worthy...Just another perspective on a reality of life...Thus nothing is "Earned" until the proof is on the football field...
Ya see with Al Davis the "Proof" was already there years before most of you ever tuned in...So Ya!!...Some of us were willing to acknowledge that he has already "Earned" our trust...
While for some of you late entries it's all about what have you done for me lately as a blind eye is turned to any long list of historical accomplishments...
"The Team Of The Decades" has proven true throughout Al's rain...Will it be the same for anyone else???
Ya See...You haven't a single solitary stat/accomplishment/triumph/"V" or anything else to base your pimping on...
On the other hand we did/do...5 decades worth!!!..."PO"s in every single one with "SB"s in the "60"s/"70"s/"80"/"00"s....Now comes the "10"s and what will be will be but there ain't no "History" yet!!!
PantyRaider....Reggie Was My Boy -n- He Has My Support...But He Still Has To Eran My Trust!!!/_
Goodell: NFL likely would expand to 34 if L.A. lands new team
INDIANAPOLIS -- Commissioner Roger Goodell said if the NFL puts a team in Los Angeles, it's probable the league would expand to 34 franchises.
Appearing Thursday night on "Costas Live" on NBC Sports Network, Goodell said the league "doesn't want to move any of our teams."
"We probably don't want to go to 33" teams by adding just one new team if a suitable stadium is built in the Los Angeles area, Goodell said. Instead, the league would consider adding two. An odd number of teams would pose scheduling problems, including at least one club being off each week, and would create one division with five teams.
There has been speculation an L.A. stadium could house two NFL franchises, although Goodell didn't address that Thursday with host Bob Costas.
Goodell said several issues must be solved in L.A., particularly which of two current stadium proposals is best. He didn't suggest any timetable for the NFL returning to Southern California.
Panty,
On that play, injuries or not, why wasn’t our best cover guy on their best receiver? Strength against strength. On third and three why wasn’t Bush given a chance to pick up the first down? Strength against strength. Too many miscues by coaches to blame injuries.
We lost our starting QB and starting RB and still had the top ten offense you keep touting. We did not have the same kinds of major injuries on defense and we sucked the whole year, 29th in total yards AND scoring. They sucked early, mid and late season. I gave the defense a pass for the first Chefs game because of three interceptions returned for TD’s. In fact, I was saying the defense was better than they looked early on. Well—I was wrong.
In the seven other losses we surrendered 38, 31, 38, 34, 46, 28 and 38. That’s roughly 36 points per game. That’s college stuff. Our two best defensive showings were against bottom tier offenses in Cleveland and KC. Turnovers and injuries were not to blame for those kinds of scores.
Even with injuries, a well coached defense should have, and probably would have, done better. A depleted defense is not the reason for our showing last season. Overall this was not a well coached team last season.
We probably could have transplanted the entire Alabama defense onto the field and done as well or better. They run a pro-style 3-4.
In fact, if folks want a young up and coming DC, hire Kirby Smart. He learned from the best defensive mind in all of college football. Except after next season Smart will be earning at least two million as HC at some college program.
Having said all that, I believe it bodes well for next season if the new staff does a better job of coaching and decision making. I do not believe there is a lack of talent on the current roster. At least not like 5-6 years ago.
NYRaider,
I got this.
Gary,
“Name a team that lost their best RB and their starting QB and overcame it.”
Sure. The Oakland Raiders. Or haven’t you heard—we had a top ten offense. We finished 7th in rushing and 11th in passing while playing the last 10 games without those two starters. The backup RB had over 1300 total yards and the best single game for a Raider RB on over twenty years. Palmer only played in ten games and threw for over 2,700 yards. That equates to over 4,000 for the season. With a middle of the pack defense we might have won ten games.
Also, “That was the game Carson played with two weeks practice.
And still no McF.”
Yes, and the next Thursday night he and Bush ran roughshod over the Dolts. You can point to all the excuses/reasons you want. But, the facts just don’t back up your argument. The folks who filled in for Campbell and McFadden played pretty darn good.
You really need to be arguing with Panty. He says we had this great top ten offense and you are saying the defense was so gassed because the offense couldn’t get a first down. Somebody’s wrong. It can’t be both.
I’m saying the offense did a good enough job despite losing Campbell and McFadden, but our defense played so badly we couldn’t even squeeze out two wins in the last five.
One last thing. “It would divide the Raider Nation.”
Wow, I didn’t know there was so much unanimity here. Must be me. I think I’ll open another smoked porter to clear my thought process. They're quite good by the way. I was skeptical when I saw the recipe.
Calico,
Ditto.
GGRaider,
I see you caught my “irregardless” comment. I was tweaking the folks who were suddenly all worried about the hire. In that, aside from irregardless not being a work, I really liked what he said.
However, I must take you to task. On this blog, Silver and Black are proper nouns and must be capitalized.
Other than that, nice piece. And, while I’ve not tried to enrich uranium, I understand a man in Sweden was arrested for trying to figure out how to do it in his kitchen.
Welcome aboard. Take has offered to buy us all a pint. I think we should take him up on it (pun intended).
H
Panty,
I do believe NYRaider would agree with this statement.
McKenzie has not earned anyone's trust, yet. What he has earned, by way of circumstance, is "benefit of the doubt".
He is in his probationary period with the fans. The results will determine whether he earns our trust, or not.
It's like giving your teenageed kid the keys to the car. You've seen what they did with their learners permit with you in the car. But, now you are letting them go solo. The more often they come home safe, the more trust they earn. Results.
H
"H"...
Correct!!!...
Reggie and now Dennis have been intrusted with our team...Now they must prove themselves worthy of such trust...
NO free gratis and NO excuses!!!
At the end of the day comes Admiration and honor for a job well done...NOT just because they accepted the undertaking...
This is the difference in the hollowed ground on which Mr Davis stood...He had already earned it despite these refusals to bestow upon the man what he justly deserved...
Our utmost respect and honor!!!
I look forward to the day when such can also be bestowed upon Reggie and Dennis and their staff who work under them...
PantyRaider....This Will Be The Greatness Of The Raiders Of Which Al Spoke!!!/_
Finally, after nine years and the worst stretch in NFL history: No excuses.
Welcome to the club.
New take is up. It's not really a new take, because I don't have one. But the comments are still wonky after 200 entries, so I'm stealing GGRaider's bit of satire to keep the comments flowing.
"200"!!`!!...Yippy!!!
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