Routt Gets Whacked
Well, still haven't fixed the comments problem past the 200+ mark, so it's time to start a new thread to keep the conversation going, even though I'm still without a very thoughtful take.
So I'll keep it short, but the news about Stanford Routt is really the news of the week, as it's a window into the organizational mind, and where things are headed in terms of fiscal roster management.
Indeed, in the recent press conference to announce Dennis Allen as the new head coach of the Raiders, GM Reggie McKenzie stated, "We’ve got some contracts that are kind of out of whack."
So Routt got "whacked."
Obviously, it leaves a hole in our secondary. As much as Routt hasn't lived up to his big-money contract, it's easy to say we don't need someone, but perhaps harder to actually replace them. Cutting him was probably necessary, but finding a replacement who can play better than him is even more vital.
There's more to come, too. ProFootballTalk put it this way: "Other candidates to be released: Aaron Curry ($5.76 million), John Henderson ($4 million), Michael Huff ($8 million), and Tommy Kelly ($6 million). Even players like Kamerion Wimbley could be up for debate. We’ve seen mixed reaction from Raiders fans on the Routt decision, but it’s a great move. It’s a sign that fiscal sanity has returned to the organization."
Buy, hold or sell the Raiders? Buy, buy, buy, baby! We're stepping into some sunshine, and the future looks bright.
So I'll keep it short, but the news about Stanford Routt is really the news of the week, as it's a window into the organizational mind, and where things are headed in terms of fiscal roster management.
Indeed, in the recent press conference to announce Dennis Allen as the new head coach of the Raiders, GM Reggie McKenzie stated, "We’ve got some contracts that are kind of out of whack."
So Routt got "whacked."
Obviously, it leaves a hole in our secondary. As much as Routt hasn't lived up to his big-money contract, it's easy to say we don't need someone, but perhaps harder to actually replace them. Cutting him was probably necessary, but finding a replacement who can play better than him is even more vital.
There's more to come, too. ProFootballTalk put it this way: "Other candidates to be released: Aaron Curry ($5.76 million), John Henderson ($4 million), Michael Huff ($8 million), and Tommy Kelly ($6 million). Even players like Kamerion Wimbley could be up for debate. We’ve seen mixed reaction from Raiders fans on the Routt decision, but it’s a great move. It’s a sign that fiscal sanity has returned to the organization."
Buy, hold or sell the Raiders? Buy, buy, buy, baby! We're stepping into some sunshine, and the future looks bright.
posted by Raider Take at 11:49 AM
184 Comments:
As anything Raider right now, either you are in or you are out, simple. No more 'pets', no more favorites, no more 'me'...it's all about the team now and that's all anyone can ask, as a fan. If the 'chosen ones' are able to turn it around and give the Org and fan base stability...then giddy up.
I do not long for the days gone by,those days are gone, it was great in the late 60's, 70's, early 80's...after that, it was very mediocre. Lets hope this 'new way' can bring what the Raider fans deserve = WINS.
JONES
Of the players mentioned by PFT, I'm guessing Wimbley gets restructured for his pass rushing abilities (the NFL is moving away from trying to lock down corners and instead just trying to put the QB on its ass) and also guessing Kelly stays for the same reason (sack leader). That keeps the three leading sack leaders on the squad (Seymour already signed).
I see Curry, Huff, and Henderson cut, with Huff having the best chance of surviving of the three... simply because there is a shortage of safeties on the market, plus they might want to try and switch him to CB.
..also, Huff when released in blitzing is outstanding at sacking the QB.. prolly the only thing he is not just average at.
The Bronco's were 10th in sacks this past year... an indicator of how Allen's defense values them... hard for me to see him getting rid of any of the sack leaders... just guessing though. Wimbley did get 4? of his after SD started playing a third string LT in one game... so maybe they might devalue that.
42 career sacks might be hard to ignore though...
"...the NFL is moving away from trying to lock down corners and instead just trying to put the QB on its ass...." (Gary)
I think that's been happening for a while. Perhaps it just seems more recent because it looks like that's the direction the Raiders will be taking.
Honestly, sacking the QB is far more fun to watch.
Even just applying more pressure can be a game-changer in terms of hurries, knockdowns, turnovers, etc. That's why I could never understand the Raiders propensity to cover over pressure.
I'm still scarred by a play with time running out against Cleveland in which Rob Ryan put every player in coverage and left NO players to pressure the QB. The result was obvious; they got the necessary yards to attempt a FG. You think Lance Kiffin was pulling out his hair on that one? Kiffin has to be the one HC in Raiders history with the least say on defense. IMO, that play put an exclamation point on Kiffin’s lack of authority.
"That's why I could never understand the Raiders propensity to cover over pressure." - NYR
Ditto. Everyone and their grandmother knows that if you give enough QB time to survey the field and a predictable defensive opponent, the QB will tear the D apart.
I am quite certain that HC Allen puts a premium on aggressive QB pressure, sacks, and knockdowns.
Should be a blast watching the dogs of war on D being cut loose.
Also, ditto Gary's comments about Huff's ability to blitz. Both Huff and Branch demonstrated in 2010 that if turned loose, both are very capable in making game impacting plays.
"NYR"...
Lance was his own idiot and demise without any help from the "SOB"...It's been proven where ever that putrid little punk goes...
"SOB" sucked all on his own and has also proven threw time and example that it wasn't Al Davis...It was "SOB"!!!...As if the "Dawgs" -n- "CowGirls" aren't proof enough...Than his brother "SOB"-Rex bets exposed as just as much of an idiot!!!...Obviously runs in that blood line!!!
Gary...
Returning to our roots of putting the "QB" down -n- down hard would be great but one of the things that made that work was the tight coverage of the "M-M"-Press and that's what we have almost completely gotten away from as we have slid on "D"...
I'm not sure what our new "D" will look like but it's bound to be improved over this last season simply because we were so ban...But will it be effective the way those old Raider "D"s were???...Now that's a damn good question to ponder...
In our past we got after the "QB"s like no other...
We covered tight like no other...
Perhaps we were not so stout against the run???
Now the "D"s that excite me consistently are in "Pits"/Bal...They blitz very effectively and generally stop that run...Do we have the personnel or the coaching to get there???...If we ever do while maintaining this "O" potential we will become a force to be reckoned with!!!
PantyRaider...Things To Dream Of!!!/_
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I am quite certain that HC Allen puts a premium on aggressive QB pressure, sacks, and knockdowns.
>>>
Something we agree on 100%... this will be an exciting defense to watch.
No more "Oh gawd, its third and long, they have us right where they want us."
If they beat the blitz, fine... but nothing worse than getting beat because the entire team backtracked. Its been too long with that... I perceive an Allen defense more liken to Pittsburgh. This could work!
Especially if they incorporate the zone blitz at time.
Just throwing some things out there.
How would Raiders nation feel about this trade ?
Mcfadden to Dallas for Dez Bryant ?
Could work. 2 young players with lots of talent, but trouble staying on field.
Jerry Jones loves his Arkansas guys.
A change of scenery type deal.
And what about QB, Matt Flynn to Raiders ?
There is a Packer connection between Mckenzie, and Flynn.
If Reg can unload Palmer, Raiders could make a play for Flynn.
Just some off season dreamin'...
I think it's possible that Palmer is NOT the guy McKenzie and Allen would prefer behind center. QB is a position that most teams are forced to compromise. However, it wouldn't surprise me if we saw a change at the position (next year is more likely)... should the right option present itself.
I like Palmer and think he will benefit from camps and preseason, but I also believe that door is half open (with no viable option yet materialized).
At the very least, the Raiders need a vet backup for Palmer.
Trying to put the quarterback on his ass has been a staple of football since the invention of the forward pass.
As for “That's why I could never understand the Raiders propensity to cover over pressure”. I would disagree. Hence, “The opponents quarterback must go down and he must go down hard.” Problem is, until 2010 it had been a while since that happened. That, along with the NFL continuing to change rules to help the passing game and “protect” the quarterback. Lockdown corners could give the DL a few more seconds to get to the QB. Then the rules committee decided if he took two steps to his right and threw it out of bounds, that was ok.
And what about spiking the ball. While I’ll scream at the TV for the QB to get to the line and spike the ball, I’m against rules that only apply during the last five minutes of the first and second half. If it’s good enough for then, it’s good enough for the entire game. There’s no thinking any longer. Get the receiver out there and throw the ball twenty feet over this head like Johnny U had to do.
I'd love to see a game where Brady, Brees, Rivers, Rogers, et al had to play a game under the same rules Unitas, Y.A. Tittle, Stabler and others had to do. No helmet com devices, call your own plays, and, by the way, you're stuck with that suck-assed running game that no one respects.
They'd be sitting on the bench wondering what day of the week it was, and they wouldn't be putting up 60-70% completion percentages.
Also, there are teams now that make the playoffs with virtually zero running game. That’s Arena and Canadian football stuff. A guy dropping back 50-70 times a game gets boring to me.
Phew, now I feel better.
Raider00,
Trading one Jacuzzi occupant for another doesn’t do it for me. Now, if Jerry wants to give up his first round pick, I’m in. In a perfect world McFadden comes back, plays in at least 15 games and gets 1,700 total yards. But, his history says no. While a draft pick is still a crapshoot, you at least get to research the guy
But, you know--it is the last year of McFadden's contract. I always fnd it amazing across the NFL how players can miraculously get on the field for a full season during that last contract year. It's like they've been to Lourdes.
JMNLHO,
H
I would not trade McFadden for Dez Bryant. We would be getting the raw deal there, and we are overloaded at WR. A reasonable trade would be Chaz Shilens and Louis Murphy for Dez Bryant, or a draft pick (I'd prefer the latter).
Make no mistake, if we trade McFadden, then we get a mid-level 1st round draft pick (pick #10-16), and resigning Bush; which would utilize Tawain Jones more. No complaints from me if we decided to do that. Or we have options in free agency too. BenJarvis Ellis-Green would be a viable option. It looks like NE may be leaning toward Ridley and Vereen with the way they cut back Green's carries this year. Marshawn Lynch is another option or Ryan Gant. I doubt that we can intrigue Ray Rice to leave Baltimore.
Not sure what to do with QB situation. I think we could get a decent backup QB, and we may have one in Pryor, we will have to see. Not sure that Flynn would come to back up, if he leaves Green Bay it will be for a starting position. You always go for a better opportunity, not an even trade. Sage Rosenfels would be a better signing as a backup; as would David Carr.
JUST WIN, BABY!
This shit just kills me...A guy makes over 100 tackles per season on a fucked up "D" where he's one of the few bright spots and his game has too many holes???
Raiders | Tyvon Branch needs to make more plays
Thu, 16 Feb 2012 04:48:17 -0800
Oakland Raiders impending free-agent SS Tyvon Branch has recorded three consecutive seasons with 100-plus tackles; however, he has just three interceptions and three forced fumbles in 56 career games.
Big Albert is again free on bail from "TB"...LoL!!!
He started six games for Tampa Bay, finishing with 25 tackles.
That's prolley 25 tackles up the middle in the run game that we could have used ??
Nate,
Now that DHB is comiing around, I would still keep Murphy. He showed a lot of upside and isn't afraid to mix it up blocking and going over the middle.
I'd give him one more year to see if his injury problem this past season was the exception, not the norm. We already know it's the norm for Chaz, even though I like his talents.
He's also one of our best when running the reverse. He seems to always get decent yardage.
Although, I am having a hard time thinking of who else would be trade worthy.
H
Very happy to see the Oak cutting the "safety nets"... which, ultimately, slow a ship down, decreases faith in ability, and creates an atmosphere of numb play. I am putting ALL of my money on BLACK. BTW, Nice poignant take, Jones.
H,
I would like to see how DHB does this next season too, but we still need a #1. Shilens was suppose to be that guy, and clearly he can be, but with nagging injuries, he is not.
What bothers me about Shilens, is usually when a player has consistent "nagging" injuries like Shilens, it's because he's unhappy, and looking to get dumped so he can pick the team he wants to go to; instead of allowing the team to trade him. That's how I feel about Shilens.
Now since he is not the #1, I think Denarius Moore can fill that spot if he stays healthy as well. But the problem is these younger players are not used to the 16 game season, and they take a beating. With a solid vet WR, they would be able to show the younger guys how to maintain their health and improve; something you don't get a lot of with Strength/Conditioning coaches. They don't focus on individual positions, they focus on the whole team.
I'm not sayin' just sayin'...
One of the most important coaching changes had to come in strength & conditioning... and it has! Jackson's injury reports were infuriating, why was he so amused week to week? McFadden couldn't get healthy again, but neither could most of our injured players... that had to be a tell tale sign,so it's gonna be interesting to see any change there.
Can't believe Murphy's a free agent, having done so little up to now.
Re our QB situation, obviously we have little choice, but fortunately we have one of the best personnel guys at GM to help sort through that quagmire... if Palmer had Campbell's mobility it's an easy call, but he doesn't. It also looks like he has some winning over to do in the locker room, they were Campbell's again once we missed the Playoffs.
I'm excited about whatever changes are coming... McKenzie seems football not ego driven and he chose Allen and so on... I want that crazy pride back from the Gruden/Gannon days when we expected to win, not the 'we're ahead but watch us give it away in the last few secs/mins' feeling of the last decade.
So...... GO RAIDERS
>>>>
How would Raiders nation feel about this trade ?
Mcfadden to Dallas for Dez Bryant ?
>>>>
Dallas has a rookie RB Murray that averaged 5.5 a pop already, with Felix Jones too... not sure why that would make sense to them...
Here is the entire list of Oakland’s prospective free agents:
QB Jason Campbell
QB Kyle Boller
*FB Marcel Reece
RB Michael Bush
RB Rock Cartwright
WR Chaz Schilens
WR T.J. Houshmandzadeh
C Samson Satele
OT Khalif Barnes
OT Stephon Heyer
*DE Desmond Bryant
DE Trevor Scott
DE Jarvis Moss
LB Ricky Brown
LB Quentin Groves
LB Darryl Blackstock
CB Lito Sheppard
FS Matt Giordano
SS Tyvon Branch
SS Jerome Boyd
DB Bryan McCann
*Restricted
So there goes the Shilens trade idea. He's a free agent. I'd like to see what Housh could do with a full training camp and OTA at WR. Maybe we could get a vet minimum contract with him.
Out of this list Tyvon Branch, Stephen Heyer, and Jarvis Moss are a must sign.
I would move WizII to center, and see how Heyer works at LG, or give Campbell a chance at LG. Need to restructure some contracts as well. We will see how it works out.
JUST WIN, BABY!
That comment about Murphy was meant to be about Shilens... my bad
Nice list, Nate. Here's my take:
None of the unrestricted free agents on that list are irreplaceable, IMO.
Both QBs should be gone.
Must re-sign Reece, IMO
Bush would be a luxury
Cartright is a solid ST player
Both WRs are expendable.
Satele has been a disappointment but we might need another year from him if Wiz is to play LG
Barnes - goodbye
Heyer - backup money
Desmond Bryant - re-sign
Trevor Scott
Jarvis Moss
Raiders should probably keep one (Moss)
LB Ricky Brown
LB Quentin Groves
LB Darryl Blackstock
All the above LBs are replaceable
CB Lito Sheppard - a serviceable backup
FS Matt Giordano - outperformed all expectation
SS Tyvon Branch - re-sign
SS Jerome Boyd - expendable
DB Bryan McCann - expendable
Its no secret I love Chaz... I bet he can be signed for a reasonable contract... hate to see him go somewhere else and finally have a full injury free season and blossom... nobody has seen that yet.
The guy has pretty damn good hands... better than Murphy by a long shot.
Someone like Brady would love him, and we all know how much they like picking over our trash...
Raiders sign//// 2009 sixth-round pick out of the University of Cincinnati, Underwood totaled 21 tackles in 23 games over his two seasons with the Packers, 16 of which came on special teams. Underwood was released prior to the start of the 2011 regular season and did not hook on with another club.
Underwood's tenure with the Packers was marred by a pair of off-field arrests, one for having non-marital sexual intercourse in an act of prostitution during an incident at a charity golf event in June of 2010. Underwood was fined $379 for that incident and the record will be expunged within a year.
Last year, Underwood was charged with domestic disorderly conduct after allegedly ripping a necklace of his estranged wife's neck after the Packers' Super Bowl ring ceremony. Underwood was fined a little over $700 for that incident.
Raiders have also released "Baghdad" John Herrera.
That was 4 years too late....
Gary,
Chaz is ok, when he plays. which isn't often.
But Chaz would not fit in with the Pats.
They already have enough WR's/TE's, to run the short, underneath routes.
Welker, Gronkowski, Fernandez.
Super bowl showed, Pats need a speedy deep threat, not Chaz.
If Chaz were to really run all out, and go deep. he'd be out for 2 seasons.
HAPPY TO SEE SUCKASS JOHN HERRERA GO!!!
REGGIE DON'T STOP THERE.
CLEAN HOUSE BABY!!!
NO MORE SUCKASS FRONT OFFICE MENTALITY @ RAIDER HEADQUARTERS. YEA BABY!!!
SCALR8R
Looks like that Raider Mystic still lives on...Well at least the desire to bring in a few of the NFL "Bad Boyz" anyway...But than Reggie is "Old School Raider" as I recall...
But evidently Brandon Underwood was one of Reggie's Boyz and at 6'1" 191# as a "S" he fills a definite need if he can make this team...Sat out a whole season so maybe he is devoted enough now to play tough??...Cheap anyway...
Keep it going Regg!!!...Lets see what cha got's!!!
Other News:
Raiders | Rolando McClain likely to stay
Thu, 16 Feb 2012 06:23:59 -0800
Oakland Raiders general manager Reggie McKenzie and head coach Dennis Allen said that LB Rolando McClain will likely remain on the team in 2012.
Raiders | Michael Bush not expected to get franchise tag
Thu, 16 Feb 2012 14:37:56 -0800
The Oakland Raiders are not expected to place the franchise tag on impending free-agent RB Michael Bush this offseason.
Raiders | Michael Huff could be cap casualty
Thu, 16 Feb 2012 10:41:45 -0800
Oakland Raiders SS Michael Huff could be released this offseason because he is scheduled to receive a $4 million roster bonus by March 16.
Raiders | Expected to shake the front office
Thu, 16 Feb 2012 06:31:14 -0800
Oakland Raiders general manager Reggie McKenzie is not only expected to make changes to the roster but also the team's front office structure. McKenzie may wait, however, until after the NFL Scouting Combine to make moves.
Notable NFL free agents in the 2012 class
Looks to be allot of "OL"/"WR"/"RB" help here...On "D" the list is much shorter and prolley more $$$$ involved as a result???
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82706e3a/article/notable-nfl-free-agents-in-the-2012-class?module=HP11_cp
>>>>
But Chaz would not fit in with the Pats.
They already have enough WR's/TE's, to run the short, underneath routes.
>>>>
NE signs HANDS. Nothing else matters...
Looks like RT should be happy with Herrera gone.. and rightfully so!
Wimbley just gave the organization the finger by saying he is not restructuring (like he's a fucking superstar or something) fuck him. Hit the road dick, and good luck with your bottom tier desperate teams for the rest of your career.
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Raiders | Michael Huff could be cap casualty
Thu, 16 Feb 2012 10:41:45 -0800
Oakland Raiders SS Michael Huff could be released this offseason because he is scheduled to receive a $4 million roster bonus by March 16.
>>>>
Good bye.
Not sure Eugene isn't as good if not better... plus draft a safety in the third round.
No complaints on any of these moves or possible moves...
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Raiders | Michael Bush not expected to get franchise tag
>>>>
Franchising Bush would have been a CLEAR indicator of a GM not having a clue... you could pick a RB in the 5th round that turns out... it happens ALL THE TIME. Give a guy the ball and he runs... "RUN FORREST." Its not rocket science. Easiest position on the roster for a backup (and yes, he will be a backup to McF.)
Seeing Herrera hit bricks is priceless. The guy was a loose cannon and an embarrassment who had absolutely no clue.
I was never on the "Harrara HateTrip" Bandwagon while many of you were...Not really sure why...But this sounds rather like a devoted Raider Fan to me and I doubt many of the avid hatters could even begin to measure up!!!
I suppose y'all needed a "Fall Guy" and sense a loyal Davis supporter was available naturally turned on him for his loyalty to the object of your hatred!!!
“It’s been something I’ve been really thinking about since Al passed away last October,” Herrera said. “I had a great run. I was there 35 years, three different tours of duty. Particpated in three different Super Bowls. I had an unbelievably great relationship with the owner and his family since I was a kid in 1963.”
“I don’t have anything negative to say,” Herrera said. “I’ve been a Raiders fan since I was 14 and the AFL was formed and my family gave up 49ers tickets in 1960. I developed great friendships with players and coaches and front office people. I’m not going to be able to turn any of that off. All I can do is wish them the best.”
Prolley should take a look at what your "J-Mac" had to say...He also questions the "HateTrip"...
PantyRaider....Your "HateTrips" For Greatness Will Never Die...Just Get Redirected At Another Target!!!/_
Herrera will never see another job at the level he had. I hope he has enough $$ to retire on. Otherwise, I see flippin' burgers in his future... not that there's anything wrong with that.
Nate,
For the most part I agree. I just like Murphy. He’s got attitude out the whazoo, works hard and plays hard. Problem is, I would like to see us make a trade to shore up some of our problem areas. So, as much as I like Murphy he may be one of the logical choices.
You mentioned a VET receiver. Who would that be? It ain’t Dez Bryant.
With Herrera gone, I wonder who Mark Davis will bring in as his loyal soldier, if anyone. According to the article I read, this was a Mark Davis/business side decision and nothing to do with McKenzie. Not sure what the guy did, but he was fiercely loyal to Al Davis. I did enjoy his one-on-one with Tim Kiwakami. Not a fan of Timmy’s.
I’ve read some inane articles before, but there is one by Natalie Sarr on Bleacher Report that states Carson Palmer should NOT be the starting quarterback next season. Mainly because of the team going 1-4 down the stretch. Hey, Natalie, there aren’t any two-way players in the NFL any more. Did you not see how poorly the defense played? Our defense was one of the worst in team history—yeah, must be the quarterback’s fault.
This reinforces my opinion that except for a few laughs at some of their slide shows disguised as thoughtful analysis that Bleacher Report is pretty much useless. I can copy and paste quotes as well as they can.
JMNLHO,
H
Gary,
“you could pick a RB in the 5th round that turns out”
You could, but that list is short. Also, if this be true, why in the hell did we invest a #5 pick in McFadden ?
Why not sign Bush, a known quantity, and use that fifth round pick to get some needed depth in other areas. Most fifth round running backs are fifth round running backs for a reason. Yeah, they MIGHT turn out, but chances are pretty slim. Do you want to take that chance when we have a guy on the payroll who can do it. Jones is still mostly an unknown with that always intriguing “upside/potential”.
I would agree that McFadden is a LaDainian Tomlinson type talent. However, I just checked and Tomlinson missed one game his first seven years in the league and four in ten.
Bush will be one of the top RB free agents out there. Four years ago the Dolts decided to let Michael Turner go. He has just over 5,600 yards from scrimmage and Atlanta has made the playoffs three of the four years. Two years later Tomlinson is gone and the Dolts are trying to find a new running back in the draft.
Now, Turner is one of those fabulous fifth rounders, so I’ve found you one. But, they are few and far between, and he became the “Run Forest” guy with his second team. The Dolts could have kept him and they would be better off today. You know, “Bird in the hand,” and all that happy horse manure.
Very similar to our situation today with respect to running backs.
However, they may not be planning on the franchise tag because they are planning on signing him long term and trading McFadden. You just never know. I think it behooves McKenzie to, at least, consider this scenario.
JMNLHO,
H
H... are we watching the same games? If Bush was anywhere close to as good as Michael Turner I would be saying by all means franchise him. The league figured out Bush in two games, he's slow to hit the hole, and doesn't have the speed to break anything outside, so just stick 8 in the box on all running plays. If you take out his first two games as a starter, I bet he averaged less than 3 yards a carry. That usually gets most RB's an exit ticket from the NFL.
This is what you want to invest nearly 8 million dollars on?
Please...
You think there is only one late round RB that turns out?? The NYG just won a SB with a 4th rounder Jacobs, and a 7th rounder Bradshaw.
Yea... they never turn out, right?
I almost guarantee Bush ends up at one of the bottom feeding franchises with the stupidest GM's... I would hope we could give McK a little more credit than that.
H....Mark Davis doesn't need a 'Herrera'...only on the Mr.Davis Raiders was there such a useless 'senior executive'. He was the top ass kisser, followed by Hue, that is no longer the way in Oakland.
The man Mark trusts is REGGIE McKENZIE.....as far as Bush, if it's going to take a tag to keep him...let him go. He ain't that great, his job can be done much cheaper.
JONES
Gary,
Yep, I’ve seen every game except one since about ’97. Satellite TV is a wonderful thing, don’t you think. I also believe in the entire body of work, not just two or three games. If you want to be very narrow about it then Bush had the best single game by a Raider running back in over 20 years. But one to three games does not a career make.
Also, first of all I said “few and far between” when it comes to 5th round running backs. Second of all I’m not saying invest 8 million in the guy. If you can find that please show me because my dementia isn’t letting it through. I’m saying we could get him cheaper and use the difference somewhere else to shore up the team.
And, I’ve also seen Bush break it outside for good gains. He’s had long runs of 67, 60, 30 and 44. That’s actually better overall than McFadden who has long gains of 50, 28, 57 and 70. That’s the long gain for each of the four years. In receiving Bush has longs of 25, 17, 55 and 55. McFadden has 27, 48, 67, 26. In virtually every measurable over the last four years it’s a near dead heat, except two. I’ll leave it to everyone to make up their own mind with the following:
Ok, I’m going to make my case for Bush vs. McFadden. As folks know I vote for Bush. So, here’s a side by side comparison for the stat geeks.
Basically, the guys have been active for four years. Bush was on the PUP list his first year.
So, the last four years career numbers:
Bush has missed 3 games, McFadden has missed 16 (17 if you thrown in the KC game where he only saw one play)
Bush has 632 carries, McFadden 553 (reasonably close),
Bush 2642 yards rushing, McFadden 2627.
Bush 879 receiving yards, McFadden 1191
Bush 22 touchdowns, McFadden 20
Bush 4.2 yards per carry, McFadden 4.8
Bush 9.7 yards per catch, McFadden 10.3
Bush 4 fumbles, McFadden 13 (This means McFadden fumbles every 43 carries and Bush every 133. Ball security is fairly important don’t you think.)
I would argue we have gotten a better return on investment with Bush. I would also argue that Bush’s yards per carry are deflated because he is in the game in short yardage situations where McFadden is not.
The reason I discount the PUP year, is that was a major injury that required surgery with rehab (I would be the same way with McFadden if he had some major injury) and it was prudent to keep him out rather than risk his career. As a third round pick, I think that was a wise decision.
Anyway, have at it.
JMNLHO,
H
Jones,
I'm for trading McFadden and keeping Bush for less. That's my argument.
H
Jones,
McFadden ain't that great either if he's standing on the sideline in a shirt and slacks.
H
i know how most of us felt about "yes-man" herrera BUT on the human side of things, jerry mac does have an interesting piece about the guy...
http://www.ibabuzz.com/oaklandraiders/2012/02/16/herrera-wasnt-the-problem/
raidernate75 said:
"What bothers me about Shilens, is usually when a player has consistent "nagging" injuries like Shilens, it's because he's unhappy, and looking to get dumped so he can pick the team he wants to go to; instead of allowing the team to trade him. That's how I feel about Shilens."
i don't think that's the case with schilens. i think he's just snake bitten with constant injuries. if schilens can get on the field, he'll play.
what you are referring to nate is an attitude issue. charles woodson was also always hurt, but he also wanted out of here. attitude.
we could say the same thing about mcfadden. i loved the fact that we picked him in that draft BUT he hasn't completed a full season yet. i love his potential to be top weapon but while his stock is still high, i say lets see if we can get get for him. i really don't think any team will give up as high as a middle 1st rounder for him. teams might be thinking he's damaged goods...
oops - getting old! i forgot to replace what i cut out. i meant let's see if we can at least get a low 1st or a 2nd rounder for dmac...
McFadden is one the best RBs in the NFL... led the league until his injury.
We don't know that he's injury-prone... particularly since McFadden isn't the only Raider that suffered non-contact injury with prolonged recovery time.
I say we stick with his incredible talent and hope McKenzie and Allen have improved the training staff, which it appears they have.
I'm not happy to see anyone lose their job. There's no doubt that Hererra was loyal and committed to the Raiders. Sounds like he was a nice family guy, too.
But...His actions and statements over time put into question his competence and professionalism, and thus he became a vivid reflection of a floundering franchise.
Perhaps he was only doing the franchise's bidding with his antics. But there's no way that McKenzie is going to allow similar antics going forward.
Hererra simply lost his place. There was probably just no place for him to go. He couldn't keep doing what he always did, because his role has always been so unique and quirky. Repacking him as a modern communications guy would have been tough, and even then there would have been baggage. So off he goes.
I wish him well. I would classify the whole thing as sad but inevitable, and probably necessary. There's a lot of that in this world.
H...McFadden is a question mark, no doubt. Don't know if it is true or not, but McFadden refused to take a 'pain shot' that would of allowed him to endure his injury while he played. McFadden supposedly rejected it...if that's the case, it will be hard to trade a guy who now has the 'rep' of not doing what it takes for the team.
Bush is steady but nothing spectacular IMO. McFadden has the chance to be a top RB and has shown it. His 'want' to be that elite back is a question. Once again, this will be up to the coaches and Mgmt to find out what they have in McFadden. Bush as the starting RB...I think the Raiders can do better, Bush wants to be a starter, he will be an avg starter.
Where as McFadden can be a game changer, a big play guy. It isn't an easy situation and it doesn't look like anything left over from the last Mgmt team is an easy fix. McFadden will have to learn that this Mgmt team won't allow half assed commitment. If the rumor of McFadden not taking the shot is true...he might be gone, but who wants a Rb that won't do what he can to help the team?
JONES
As for Herrera...he was part of the 'dysfunction' that crippled the Raiders for decades. He kept his job by being an ass kisser. If anyone can call that being loyal and a good Raider, then you are a symptom of why the Raiders have been as bad as they have for as long as they have. He was the poster boy for what was wrong with the Org. He may be a good guy, but he was bad for the Raiders and that's all that counts.
JONES
"NE signs HANDS. Nothing else matters..."
**********************************
Sure other things matter. What about speed ?
Chaz is a possession receiver. NE already has plenty of those.
Chaz does have good hands though.
It's his feet, knees, shoulder, and everything else that's always injured, that's the problem.
>>>>>
H said...
Jones,
McFadden ain't that great either if he's standing on the sideline in a shirt and slacks.
>>>>>
There are two options here... keep him and hope he doesn't get injured, or trade him and hope he does.
After watching "injury prone" CWood go on to have a hall of fame career in GB, I pick the first option hands down.
>>>>
Sure other things matter. What about speed ?
Chaz is a possession receiver. NE already has plenty of those.
>>>>
They have more than we do, no doubt. Which brings us full circle to.. why not KEEP him?
What other possession receivers do we have? DHB is still learning to catch, and Moore is going to be our fly guy... Chaz could be our Belitnikoff guy...
I don't trust Ford (running the wrong route to end the SD game?) and Murphy looks like he is scared to get hit for most of last year, and never has had great hands.
Good riddance Herrera & I hope I can say the same thing about Trask before OTA's.
Regarding McFadden, I think we have to keep him because we cannot get fair compensation.
As Jones pointed out McFadden can be a complete game change if, a big if, he can stay healthy. He has not done so up to this point and that means we would have to take pennies on the dollar.
Looking forward to to see how everything shakes out and I think we should have a good idea by the end of the draft.
Roy
Herrera might be a classic case of shooting the messenger. However, based on his actions and statements over time, there appears to be no question he was under-qualified for the position.
McFadden: I don't like to second guess the pain shot thing. Masking pain can lead to more severe injury, and/or other injury.
>>>>
As Jones pointed out McFadden can be a complete game change if, a big if, he can stay healthy.
>>>>>
If you could choose between having McFadden right now, or Adrian Peterson... who would you choose?
Myself it would be McFadden. Why? AP just BLEW OUT HIS KNEE!
I wonder if there is anyone in Minnesota saying they should try and trade him.
I bet there isn't.
NYR...A pro football player...College player even H.S players give it all for the team. This kind of attitude is welcome and shows leadership. You, may think of it as a guy watching out for himself, I don't.... The team looks at like he doesn't care and ALL players play with pain and end up retired with pain. It's the way it is and that's why they get the big bucks.
Back in the day, the rest of the team would of held him down and given him the freakin shot! And told him he had to play. Imagine Gale Sayers saying he wouldn't take the shot? Ben Davidson? Jack Tatum? George Atkinson? Are you kidding? Remember what George Atkinson called Lynn Swann? SOFT.... This is Pro Football, if McFadden wants to be a guy who is scared of needles....to me, it's unacceptable that he didn't do it. He let the team down, IMO.
JONES
NYR...as far as Herrera...anyone who stood by and did not try to change what happened was part of the problem. In other words, he didn't help the Raiders, he helped hinder them...Jmac's little rosy send off is not telling the story, those who have been fans for years know what Herrera was...he helped Mr.Davis create a losing way.
Those who think that was being a loyal Raider...not in my book. If he was involved in a system of chaos that was obviously not working, then it would have to change or he shouldn't be a part of it. It was agenda came before the TEAM, his cushy position was more important than the TEAM and Herrera was guilty of it. This is why fans are happy to see him go.
JONES
...launching McFadden would be short-sighted. Right now, he's irreplaceable. He knows it. They know it. It should not happen.
Jones - Herrera wasn't alone. Nobody dared tell the emperor he wasn't wearing any clothes. It seems those who tried (like HCs whose professional reputations were at stake) were shot down, then shown the door.
Re: McFadden, I just don’t have enough information to agree or disagree with you. When McFadden was on the field, he was a monster (despite an inexperienced O-line and Campbell at QB). The fact that he had to take a seat for the rest of the season was bizarre, I’ll give you that.
I don’t believe his exact injury was ever revealed, i.e., outside of media and so-called expert speculation. So without knowing, I’m guessing there are some types of injuries you just don’t f’k with.
Side note: Son of NYR told me this joke tonight and I thought I’d share. “Your mamma is so dumb she thinks a quarterback is a refund.” It’s much funnier when told by a 7-year-old.
..."Jones - Herrera wasn't alone. Nobody dared tell the emperor he wasn't wearing any clothes. It seems those who tried (like HCs whose professional reputations were at stake) were shot down, then shown the door..."
Well, if anyone had the TEAM and the FANS best interest at heart, they would have walked out the door. That takes more of a man then someone who stays for a paycheck. Herrera is going to look back in a few years and regret it, IMO.
The situation sounds like the battered wife syndrome, keep taking the abuse because you 'love them'. He put his own agenda before the team and the culture that was, was rampant. Sounds like Routt, McFadden and the like, picked up on that very 'dysfunction' and figured if the 'emperor's yesmen' were doing it, then why not the team? That WAS the culture and Herrera was part of it and condoned it. Making out like Herrera had to go along with it, I ain't buying it.
JONES
Some old Al Davis loyalty will prolley remain:
Raiders | Willie Brown's role to be redefined
Fri, 17 Feb 2012 06:39:27 -0800
The Oakland Raiders are expected to retain longtime assistant coach Willie Brown; however, his role is being "redefined," according to a source familiar with the situation.
Seems that loyalty also exists in Cincy???
Although Jackson has an extensive history as an offensive assistant, including time spent as a wide receivers coach in Cincinnati, the Bengals announced they’ve hired him as as assistant secondary and special teams coach.
“Hue is a tremendous addition to our staff,” said Bengals head coach Marvin Lewis in a released statement. “I relied on Hue greatly when he was with us, and his success overall in the NFL, including being selected for a head coaching position, is well documented. He has expertise in all aspects of the game, and we are fortunate to have obtained his services.”
LOL!!!...So did Hue have a hand in that sick ass play by our "DB"s while crying he was "Hands Off The D"???....
I'm glad to see the official report instead of that which was wrongly reported by quick the of tongue "Mediot"s!!!
John Herrera, Raiders not parting ways after all
The Raiders revealed today that Senior Executive John Herrera has retired. However, they announced that he will not be leaving the organization entirely. Though he will no longer hold the title of Senior Executive, he will remain involved closely with the Raiders in, what the Raiders are describing as "special projects"
Now notice the difference in the two released statements:
The Official:
"At this point in my career and after careful thought and consideration, I have decided to take a break," said Herrera. "I've had a great run, 35 years over three tours of duty, and have been privileged to work in every area of the organization. I've enjoyed the whole ride and cherish my relationships with the Davis family, players, coaches and front office staff. I have developed lifelong friendships with people that have come through the organization and my time with the Silver and Black has exceeded my wildest expectations."
"Mediot" Reported:
“It’s been something I’ve been really thinking about since Al passed away last October,” Herrera said. “I had a great run. I was there 35 years, three different tours of duty. Particpated in three different Super Bowls. I had an unbelievably great relationship with the owner and his family since I was a kid in 1963.”
“I don’t have anything negative to say,” Herrera said. “I’ve been a Raiders fan since I was 14 and the AFL was formed and my family gave up 49ers tickets in 1960. I developed great friendships with players and coaches and front office people. I’m not going to be able to turn any of that off. All I can do is wish them the best.”
Point was how did what John said get twisted into "Your Fired" instead of "He Retired"???
"retired" vs. "fired" is merely semantics.
Typically a long serving employee who is no longer wanted/needed is given the graceful exit designation of "retirement" for the purpose of leaving with dignity.
"special projects" and still aligned/employed with the organization is laughable.
Bottom Line:
Herrera was an embarrassment to the organization and I'm thrilled that he will no longer be in a position to put the wrong foot forward in representing the organization. Adios.
RE: McFadden and Bush
Personally I want to roll the dice with McFadden and re-sign Bush.
Would love to see the 2 backs used in such a way to keep both integral and healthy for an entire 16 game season.
If it means reducing McFadden's load (like Kauffman) to play 16 games, so be it.
"Personally I want to roll the dice with McFadden and re-sign Bush."...
2 Problems, Jack.
Bush wants to be a full time starter and can the Raiders afford to put big money on a backup? Something has to give, IMO, Bush wants to start, he is a F.A., he might be too expensive. I think most would agree to keep both, is it feasible, that is the question.
JONES
The games Bush had after teams had enough time to review him as a starter:
1. Bears: 24-69 2.875 ypc
2. Dolphins: 10-18 1.8 ypc
3. GB: 23-78 3.39 ypc
4. Det: 18-77 4.27 ypc
5. KC: 23-70 3.04 ypc
6. SD: 19-66 3.47 ypc
Total: 3.14 ypc
THREE POINT ONE FOUR???
This is the guy people want to trust our franchise with....
That is the mark of a second or third string RB under anyone's measures.
Please... he is not a good rb.
>>>>
If it means reducing McFadden's load (like Kauffman) to play 16 games, so be it.
>>>
His load needs to be reduced to nearly NOTHING early. I would look at him as a Bo Jackson thing... just figure him in for the last half of the season.
There are literally 100 RB's that can average 3.14 ypc to back him up though... no sense spending 8 million for one.
McK knows this (I, hope.)
OUTSIDE THE BOX: Sit McFadden until game 8 (depending on w/l record.)
Nobody has ever done it... well except Bo.. and I still say if he hadn't hurt his hip, the Raiders would have one more ring.
Bush can't handle starting full time. Amazing how my gut-stats are sometimes spot-on... I figures about 3 ypc. He's an asset, but not an offense (yet?)
Just as I posted the one doing all the bitching about John isn't a worthy example himself....Your verbal lack of support of this organization threw some very difficult times has been way more than just an embarrassment....It's been disgusting!!!...
You can't even begin to pretend the type of loyal support that John and others of us have giving this franchise threw time and yet you would set yourself up in judgement of someone who is proven threw time???....Absurd Arrogance!!!
Gary...
Point of Order...LoL!!!...
We also have "TJ" who is a 3rd rd selection but very under utilized this past season...He has the Speed/Hands/Elusiveness to be an interesting prospect...
Add in Reece who also posted some very favorable "YPC" averages along with his pass catching abilities...
The reverse with Moore/Ford/Murphy which also posted some good "YPC" averages from the "WR"s...
Than there's Ausberry who posted good run stats at USC and potentially could also in the Pros...
All of which could complement our dual Rush Attack with "D-Mac"/Bush leading the way...
This is the one advancement I'm expecting to see from a Knapp "O"...Full utilization of all our weapons in that Run Game while Saunders keeps them very productive in the Passing Game...For all practical purposes that top 10 rated (#9) "O" should be even better with a healthy roster and further commitment to the Run utilizing the "ZBS"...I say "Should" and allot of this will also depend upon the play of the "OL" which was pretty damn good this last season..(#5)...
With the retention of Al Saunders and the possibility that the terminology remains the same I'm no longer as worried about our "O"...Especially with the addition of a qualified "WR" coach and retention of a known commodity in the Run Game...
After that dense fog lifter we now have a Coaching Staff that we can sink our teeth into and look forward to in development with eager expectations rather then that shallow "New Optimism" that was express here very early on without any knowledge of where we were even headed...
Greg Knapp...Offensive Coordinator
Al Saunders....Senior Offensive Assistant
Justin Griffith...Quality Control - Offense
John DeFilippo....Quarterbacks
Ted Gilmore....Wide Receivers
Mark Hutson....Tight Ends
Kelly Skipper...Running Backs
Frank Pollack...Offensive Line
Steve Wisniewski...Assistant Offensive Line
PantyRaider..."PO" Possibilities Yet On The Horizon!!!/_
Other coaches are more of an uncertainty and challenge now to know what will be our team in 2012...
Dennis Allen...Head Coach
That "D"...What will be it's personality and effectiveness???
Jason Tarver...Defensive Coordinator
Eric Sanders...Quality Control - Defense
Terrell Williams....Defensive Line
Johnny Holland...Linebackers
Clayton Lopez..Defensive Backs
Johnnie Lynn...Defensive Backs
"ST"s is all new so will it be an improvement or a regression???
Steve Hoffman...Special Teams Coordinator
Keith Burns...Assistant Special Teams
"S-n-C" is the one area where we should be vastly improved sense ya can't get much worse than what we have been:
Al Miller...Strength and Conditioning
John Grieco...Assistant Strength and Conditioning
Than add to the the future Roster Changes???
PantyRaider...Far Too Many Unknowns To Start Making Premature Projections!!!!/_
Some Incite As To Who John Really Is:
----------------------------------
Herrera first joining the organization in 1963 at the age of 16. He has gone on to work in every corner of the team's operation including player personnel, scouting, media relations, training camp operations, team travel, stadium negotiations, community relations, security and even one season as a member of the coaching staff.
In between, Herrera has served stints in scouting and player personnel with two other NFL teams and as a General Manager and Director of Player Personnel in the Canadian Football League, rejoining the organization as Senior Executive in 1985.
As part of his duties, Herrera was given complete authority to locate sites and execute training camp operations on two different occasions. He coordinated Raiders training camp efforts in Oxnard, Calif. for 11 years and in Napa for the past 16 years. He also headed up a staff dedicated to identifying and exploring new stadium locations and building projects for the organization.
Multiple times throughout his tenure, Herrera was called upon to participate in player drafts and evaluate talent. He was also intimately involved with alumni events including reunions and recent memorials for Raider Legends Gene Upshaw, George Blanda and Jack Tatum.
But what Herrera eventually became most well-known for was his fierce defending of Al Davis and all things Raiders. Most notably erupting in a dispute with sportswriter Tim Kawakami during a press conference which was caught on tape and made the internet rounds.
What's that Jethro/Cable Guy? You taking "Anno Ass" swipes at me? Cry all you want, be stuck in the time warp, show everyone the little whiny puzzy you are. By the way, why are you an "Anno Ass" now? O Da Horor.....thanks for reading my posts, hope they piss you off real good. Don't forget to 'sign in' or even use one of your alias accounts....see ya.
JONES
This is a pretty sick Vid of the Terrorist Bomb Attack in Bangkok 2/14...But it's rather nice to see one of them get it instead of all the innocent people that they end up hurting!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpMbrRkoWT8&feature=related
Just the real world at large unless you live in a closet!!!
Jones: "Sounds like Routt, McFadden and the like, picked up on that very 'dysfunction' and figured if the 'emperor's yesmen' were doing it...."
I believe the players can be professional, and they know what's expected. If McFadden thought he got away with something under Jackson/Davis, he must also know that nonsense stops now.
Unless I'm mistaken, you appear to be implying McFadden is still a risk to the Raiders in this regard...?
So, maybe they should trade him. But I would hate to see him poppin' off long runs for any other team!
I say the players take on the 'personality' of an Org. If the Org is in a state of dysfunction and seperate agendas, it will filter to the players and they will do the same in some cases. Just as, if an Org is run in a professional manner and is on the same page, from top to bottom, the players will act accordingly.
As far as trading McFadden, if it is true that he wouldn't sacrifice for the team (taking a pain needle), the return will be diminished...it's up to Reggie and Allen to find out what the situation with McFadden was. If they see he isn't fully committed, then something will have to be done. If they find that he is and didn't help the team for a reason we don't know....seeing McFadden play his best ball and give 100% for the team is the best scenario, if that isn't feasible, then he has to go.
I really like McFadden when he is playing, he is a beast when he is playing his best. But as H says, if he is standing on the sidelines for half a year and unwilling to play through pain...then he should go.
JONES
And congratulations to Huey Jackson for his position of assistant DB coach of the Cincy Bengals. Talk about a step down? Assistant DB coach, and who said he would be scooped for a HC job? Assistant DB coach? Way to go Hue, are you going to assist in building a bully? Or is all that just talk too?
JONES
"Bush wants to be a full time starter and can the Raiders afford to put big money on a backup? Something has to give, IMO, Bush wants to start, he is a F.A., he might be too expensive. I think most would agree to keep both, is it feasible, that is the question." - Jones
Good points Jones and a real dilemma. A couple additional points and questions to consider;
- We don't know what McKenzie/Allen think of McFadden and Bush in terms of value to the organization, plans for the rushing attack, and how to employ each.
- What is the true definition of a 'starting RB' anyways? Is it the guy who gets the 1st snap? the most carries? who is used in the 4th Q?
The point being is that if Bush averages 15-20 carries per game and McFadden 10-15, does it really matter?
What if Bush and McFadden share the load close to 50/50 ... would either view himself as a "back up"?
- The value proposition: Which is better; trading McFadden and going with Bush/Jones or keeping all 3 and using the committee approach? How do we best use our cap dollars to get the most bang for our buck?
- Lastly, I don't doubt that Bush wants to be paid like a starting RB However, if Bush is given a long term, fair market deal, with a good bonus up front and additional incentives, it benefits his long term career longevity to share the load. I personally don't think we need to break the bank to re-sign Bush.
.."What is the true definition of a 'starting RB' anyways?"...
I would think it would be the 'go to' guy. Bush wants to be the 'go to' guy, he wants to be the top back. I would think that neither would be happy with being considered a backup. If a RB is happy with being a part time back, then he shouldn't be a go to guy, IMO. SB champs though, have 2 backs that they 'go to'. If McFadden can play a full season of what we saw from him last year, Bush wouldn't be needed. McFadden is far better, IMO, but......it seems there is no clear answer and that's why the Gm and HC have to make the call and take into account, cap hits, injuries, attitudes etc...
JONES
Does anyone remember when Bush was asked to be a FB and he had a fit about it? I don't think this guy is interested in anything besides himself, and thinks he should not be sharing carries with anyone. I will bet he goes anywhere he can be THE GUY and get top dollar... regardless of team or how crappy they are.
Somehow I don't think that will occur with the Raiders... not without trading McFadden, which would be one of the biggest gambles in the history of the Raiders, IMO.
1. He could very easily be injury free for the rest of his career with better training.
2. He is one of the most explosive RB's in the NFL.
3. Non top ten draft picks often do not turn out well anyway... and nobody is trading a top ten pick for him... not with the new rookie contract rules.
What would you rather do in five years? Look back and say "I wish we would have gotten some draft picks when we had the opportunity."
or... "Damn, I sure wish we had KEPT him."
Myself, thats not even a close question.
Draft picks are crap shoots at best anyway... at least I have seen what he can already do on a NFL field. Which is be one of the best in the NFL.
Its like trading one of your all-stars in baseball for "hot prospects."
Sure they might turn out... but more often then not you end up like the Pitts Pirates.
The McFadden and Bush is an interesting debate and dilemma
IMO, both are better off sharing the load. Asking either back to carry the ball 20+ x 16 games isn't feasible especially McFadden.
Keep in mind, we have yet to see a full season when both McFadden and Bush are healthy AND both are used as a 1 and 1A tandem.
In the past, it has either been McFadden shouldering the load (if healthy) with Bush getting a few token carries OR Bush shouldering the load because McFadden was hurt.
To me, it would make sense to use McFadden more sparingly (ie. 10-15 carries per game) to increase the chances of him completing a full season.
"Part Time" "Full Time" "Go to Back" are very much relative terms when discussing possible usage of running backs.
To me, if you are a primary staple in the offense, you are "Full Time".
This would be a rough guide on how I would want to see the carries distributed:
McFadden 40% (approx. 10-15)
Bush 50% (approx. 15-18)
Jones/Reece 10% (approx 3-5)
You could easily make the case that Bush is a "go to Back" in short yard/goal line situations or to close out the 4th Quarter with a lead.
The best comparison that I can find in the NFL is the Giants with Bradshaw & Jacobs. I would argue that McFadden is more explosive than Bradshaw and Bush is more well rounded than Jacobs.
I certainly don't want the Raiders to break the bank to sign Bush. If Bush's contract demands are unreasonable, I trust McKenzie to find a cheaper, suitable replacement.
Just 1 season though, I'd love to see both McFadden and Bush healthy, used judiciously, and in a complementary manner. The Raiders rushing attack and offense would benefit and ultimately, both backs would benefit.
"J-Mac" clears this up and as I posted that Routt deal was basically a one year deal from the outset:
"Routt’s three-year $31.5 million extension was reported as guaranteed to the tune of $20 million. Now there are reports that it was actually $15 million, with the Raiders having escaped a $5 million guarantee by cutting him what they did. A great deal for Routt, either way, he’ll get to sign another contract."
So he cost us the $10 Mil for one season and finished...NO long term $$$$ against future Caps...Obviously Al Davis knew what he was doing as Namndi's huge $$$$ to the total of some $20-$25 Mil was wiped off the books...That's the $17 Mil he was set to earn for one season plus all that "Dead Money" that had been moved forward when renegotiating his past contracts...He actually just lost all that Cash or if paid it didn't count against the Raiders Cap...
Now reportedly Wimbely is in a similar position...We pay him $6.5 Mil and he walks away or we pay him the additional $4.5 Mil and he continues to play...I say he stays and plays out his deal...
"This season, Wimbley’s base salary is $11 million and $6.5 million is guaranteed. Wimbley makes that amount even if he is cut. The rest of his contract ($4.5 million) is guaranteed as of March 17.
But as far as the Raiders owing him $29 million guaranteed, well, . . . the Raiders are off the hook for much of that figure if Wimbley is cut before March 17."
Last time Knapp was with the Raiders is when Bush was drafted but never played that 1st season..."D-Mac" was drafted the following season but Knapp had already lost his play calling duties by that time...So what Knapp will do with both these "RB"s is an unsure speculation...
That's the premise from where I post...
"07" under Knapp the Raiders were the #6 rushing "O"...31st Passing..23rd Scoring and produced the #25 "O" overall...
That roster was:
"QB"s "JeBustus"/Andrew Walter/Josh McCown
"RB"s LaMont Jordan/Justin Fargas/Dominic Rhodes
"FB"s Justin Griffith/Oren O'Neal
"TE"s John Madsen/Zach Miller/Tony Stewart
"WR"s Ronald Curry/Tim Dwight/Johnnie Lee Higgins/Chris McFoy/Jerry Porter
"OL" Cooper Carlisle G/Robert Gallery G/T/Mario Henderson T/Paul McQuistan G/Chris Morris C/Jeremy Newberry C/Jonathan Palmer T/Barry Sims T/Seth Wand T/Mark Wilson T
Shit!!!...It's almost laughable to view this and try to compare what we have in OakTown today!!!
Zack was a rookie as was "JeBustus" who didn't even play in the preseason or the 1st half season so don't pimp this as what took down our "O"...We just sucked across the board except in the run....
So just imagine what Knapp must be thinking as he views this roster today without the threat of Cable stripping him of his job or Lance's little boy antics???...LoL!!...Plus the assistance of Al Saunders who put a top 10 (#11 Passing) "O" on that field just last season despite all those injuries...
High caliber "QB":
Carson Palmer/Terrelle Pryor
A real "WR" Core:
Jacoby Ford/Darrius Heyward-Bey/Denarius Moore/Louis Murphy/Chaz Schilens
A great stable of "RB"s:
Michael Bush/Rock Cartwright/Taiwan Jones/Darren McFadden
Decent "FB"s as recieving threats:
Marcel Reece/Manase Tonga
Quality "TE"s:
David Ausberry/Kevin Boss/Richard Gordon/Brandon Myers
An "OL" that comes to play:
Joseph Barksdale T/G/Khalif Barnes T/Bruce Campbell T/G/Cooper Carlisle G/Stephon Heyer T/Samson Satele C/Jared Veldheer T/Stefen Wisniewski G/C
Some of this will be tweaked with additions and subtractions before the season starts but that's the unit we start will for now...
Hard to imagine Knapps "O" not being far better than what he was able to do back when???
PantyRaider....If Knapp Can't Produce Now He Really SUCKS!!!!/_
Add to that list:
"Lanyae Miller. He was a College backup running back on a talented Fresno State squad. He ran a 4.43 in the forty and weighs in at 232lbs. Miller is known for long runs and power and speed when backed up against the goal line. He's faster than Bush and will come cheaper too."
Monday is "Tag Fay"....
Do we/Should we spend it???
PR said: "J-Mac" clears this up and as I posted that Routt deal was basically a one year deal from the outset:
"Routt’s three-year $31.5 million extension was reported as guaranteed to the tune of $20 million. Now there are reports that it was actually $15 million..."
So, does that mean he cost us $15M with salary and guarantees?
Sure, Davis did the right thing by voiding Asomugha's contract, but was it the right thing to do to hand Routt such a huge deal without even attempting to re-sign Nnamdi?
If I understand this correctly, Routt cost the Raiders $15M for one year and Asomugha's contract with the Eagles was $12M a year.
Even if Routt walked with "only" $10M, it makes no sense, IMO.
I just love the way people pick a handful of games and say Bush is crap. Yes, McFadden has had some good games with big numbers. Well, so has Bush. Would you like me to go pick out some games where McFadden didn’t do so hot. Maybe where he only got 50 yards. How about the times he fumbled at the wrong time when we were driving for a score?
Yeah, he has that ability to hopefully, possibly, maybe break the long one each time he touches the ball. But, that’s all flash and dash. And what are you really talking about, five plays a season, maybe? The guy’s history shows he has problems with ball security and can’t stay on the field for 16 games.
Yes, McFadden was leading the league in rushing after six games. But, the rest of the league was catching up to him. In those six games he only cracked 100 yards twice. He was leading the league based on two very big games. Against Houston he had 15 carries for 51 yards. For every positive for McFadden you can find just as many positives for Bush. Same for negatives.
Any DC worth his salt can look at films and figure out a way to stop someone. Houston did. So did Buffalo.
If you look at the whole body of work, there is little difference except for if-if-if McFadden can stay healthy. The biggest difference in the two is flash and dash vs. steady consistency. Bush isn’t flashy, but he shows up every day with his lunch pail. I like that.
Calico,
“In the past, it has either been McFadden shouldering the load (if healthy) with Bush getting a few token carries OR Bush shouldering the load because McFadden was hurt.”
Good piece but, this sentence is exactly my point, “if healthy”, “was hurt”. There’s the rub.
H
OakTown,
No one is irreplacable. Especially if they think they are.
H
OakTown,
There is an exception. Granson of H thinks I'm irreplacable. He's right.
H
H...McFadden, when healthy, is the better Back. Again, the stats thing is for ? Just watch them play and it is clear as a bell that McFadden runs with more explosiveness, speed and can make a small hole into a big gain. Bush is more a steady Back and can endure punishment. AGAIN, the question's are...is McFadden committed enough and will Bush want to stay for semi-backup money and a non starter role. But there is no question, when playing, McFadden can be a top 5 Back in the league. Bush will never be a top 5 Back.
JONES
I think it is hard to really assess the Bush centered offense. For most of that time Moore and Ford were also out and the O became predictable. I know huejack did a good job bringing the O around. What I thought did not happen was an adjustment of the plays to the players available. Boss was not hurt but got no extra touches. The pats used two TEs the whole season. Maybe not what the pats did but at least an attempt to adjust.
Hope the Knapp era is not the nap era.
"NYR"...
NO!!...Routt one year $$$$ total $10 Mil -n- Done!!!...
Had he panned out we may have elected to keep him but he failed his #1 trial so unless he's brought back as a #2 he's done....
memdf -n- "H"...
No matter how good the "RB"s are it's the "OL" that's the key along with a good strong Passing Game that takes the attention away from the Run...As you pointed out that Passing Game was restricted by injury and the proper adjustments slipped someone's mind....Now who's is a good question???
Would that be on Al Saunders/Hue or Palmer not looking for his "TE"s/"FB"s-n-"RB"s???...We know "Check Down" would always go short before he'd crank it to a "WR"...
One thing of note is that under Knapp "07" our top rated Rushing "O" produced when we had nothing as far as a Passing Game...
#6 Rush
#31 Pass
And that was with much less at "RB"/"FB"-n-"WR" Reverse than what we have today...
I believe that was our 1st season in the "ZBS" so that speaks well to the idea that we can transition easily back to that "ZBS" in the run game while maintaining our quality "OL" Pass Blocking..."PBS"...
Don't remember but was Knapp prone to use a "2-Back Set"??...That's one thing I was always pimping but rarely witnessed under Hue...In Houston 2 backs produce3d some 2200yds but I don't know if they were lined up in a "2-Back" set??
By the way Arian Foster was injured and lost time as well as "AP"...Jamaal Charles in "KC" too...So should they all be traded off as well???
PantyRaider..."D-Mac" Was My Boy -n- He Stays!!!/_
No matter how well the "O" performed that "D" was there to sell us out!!!
"D" FIRST DOWNS (by penalty) 58
TURNOVER RATIO -4
TOTAL OFFENSIVE YARDS "O"-6072 "D"-6201
TOTAL RUSHING YARDS "O"-2110 "D"-2178
RUSHING (Plays-Average Yards) "O"-466 - 4.5 "D"-430 - 5.1
TOTAL PASSING YARDS "O"-3962 "D"-4023
TOUCHDOWNS "O"-38 "D"-53
(Rushing-Passing-Returns-Defensive) "O"-16 - 20 - 1 - 1 "D"-15 - 31 - 3 - 4
>>>>
H said...
I just love the way people pick a handful of games and say Bush is crap.
>>>>
Just every game after defenses made the needed adjustments. Its not like I picked and chose a game here.. a game there. EVERY GAME after his second start was pretty horrible.
This is whom you want to trust the franchise to?
Psst.. he averages 4.2 YPC for his CAREER too.
Thats the exact same average as Lamont Jordan... and look what happened with him when we threw tons of money at him.
At least Jordan could pick up a blitz...
>>>>
If you look at the whole body of work, there is little difference except for if-if-if McFadden can stay healthy.
>>>>
This is a fabrication, at best.
Bush has a career 4.2 YPC and has DECREASED in production every year.
In contrast... McFadden has a 4.8 YPC average and has INCREASED his production nearly every year.
Plus McF is one of the best in the league at picking up blitzes. Bush is one of the worst I have ever seen... perhaps one of the worst in NFL history.
It kinda gives you a hint how he views the game... if the play aint going to him, he aint tryin...
..."Thats the exact same average as Lamont Jordan..."
So what....it's the exact same avg to a lot of Rb's throughout history. Some good, some not so good, the stat = geek thing shows it's head again.
I don't think Management is going to throw Lamont money at Bush, wonder if the Raiders are still paying Lamont? Where are all those guys who said years ago that spending money like a drunken sailor wasn't going to cause problems down the road? Same guys who compare a stat and write "he is just like him because they have the same stat"...
JONES
Bush stats...
4.4, 4.8, 4.1, 3.8
McF:
4.4, 3.4, 5.2, 5.4
It doesn't take much to see which way the two careers are going...
>>>>
Jones: So what....it's the exact same avg to a lot of Rb's throughout history.
>>>>
Perhaps. I doubt you would find many great ones that aren't hitting their stride by the 4th year. Bush keeps getting worse.
And there isn't any stats for missed blitzes... just saying...
I remember that Lamont missed his share of blitzes, if I have any memory left, I believe that was one of Lamont's real weaknesses. If there was a stat for that, I'm sure Lamont would have more whiffs.
JONES
H:
My main 2 points concerning McFadden and Bush revolves around their history and how the 2 have been employed:
"Keep in mind, we have yet to see a full season when both McFadden and Bush are healthy AND both are used as a 1 and 1A tandem."
"Just 1 season though, I'd love to see both McFadden and Bush healthy, used judiciously, and in a complementary manner. The Raiders rushing attack and offense would benefit and ultimately, both backs would benefit."
"EVERY GAME after his second start was pretty horrible."
This is what Bush did as a starter from McFadden getting injured on the 1st series of the KC game in week 7:
17-99 vs. KC
19-96 vs. Den
30-157 at SD
30-109 at Minn
That is 96 carries for 461 yards and an average of 115 yards per game at 4.8 YPC.
This 4 week stretch and Bush's complete body of work shows that he is a very capable back. The key to me is how Bush is used.
With McFadden out, Jones out, and a few key WRs down in the back half of the 2011 season, I personally think that Jackson ran Bush into the ground.
What would excite and enthrall me is seeing a better balance of using both McFadden and Bush.
The best that Hall of Fame Head Coach Hue Jackson could do was to land a assistant to the assistant special team coach.
Oh what a shame!!!
A LOT OF YOU GUYS MUST BE DEVASTATED!!!
I still remember the bitchin' and moaning when he was fired.
SCALR8R
>>>>
With McFadden out, Jones out, and a few key WRs down in the back half of the 2011 season, I personally think that Jackson ran Bush into the ground.
>>>>
Which leads us to another concern I have for him... his conditioning. I saw many people comment how his "legs look dead" after his first few starts.
Maybe that was because he wasn't used to that many carries? Maybe its because he's a big lug of a puffball... I have always said it looks like he could lose 20 pounds... am I the only one to notice this??
Would a new fat contract lead him to a Jmarcus like spiral into triple cheeseburgers (instead of Purple Drank?)
I dunno... I see nothing but red flags about him.
He'd be a good backup... but at starters money? No thanx.
>>>
If there was a stat for that, I'm sure Lamont would have more whiffs.
>>>
Wow. ok. Maybe so. He sure as HELL has better hands than Lamont too.
That is one of the few things I like about him... he has great hands for such a huge bowling ball of a dude.
Gary,
I don't see Bush's physical conditioning an issue.
Did he get banged up by taking a tremendous load the last 10 games of the season? Yes, without a doubt. The guy had 256 carries primarily in 7 games.
Let's not forget that Bush was injured but keep playing. The reality was that with McFadden and Jones out, Bush was the sole carrier with little to no rest.
Bush is a highly durable back who can carry the ball 30 times in a game. Just don't ask him to lug the ball 30 times on a regular basis.
All of this points back to my original conclusion that the Raiders, if McFadden and Bush are back, need to find a better balance in distributing the rushing attempts.
>>>>
All of this points back to my original conclusion that the Raiders, if McFadden and Bush are back, need to find a better balance in distributing the rushing attempts.
>>>>>
A starting LB AND a backup CB or WR could prolly be secured for the same price as keeping Bush.
Let me put it this way... I bet we could sign Tyvon Branch, Chaz, and Rock Cartwright for the same amount of money to franchise Bush.
routt is a chief...
"...will get $11 million this season and $19.3 million over three years."
...for the league leader in penalties and 8 TD receptions given up? Yikes! IMO, Routt became labeled as an elite CB only because of the big money the Raiders threw at him.
The player Routt likely replaces, Brandon Carr, should probably be on the Raiders watch list.
Panty
Looked over your Knapp 1 personnel post.
Much better talent pool this time around. Did like to watch Oren Oneal blow guys up blocking. Reminded me of Crockett. Go to a game every year and went to new orleans three(?) years ago? Saw Knaap out for a run on that Saturday. Was very personable. Raiders got trounced. Kept thinking - man these guys are good.
saints won SB the next year. Our turn is coming...
Panty
Looked over your Knapp 1 personnel post.
Much better talent pool this time around. Did like to watch Oren Oneal blow guys up blocking. Reminded me of Crockett. Go to a game every year and went to new orleans three(?) years ago? Saw Knaap out for a run on that Saturday. Was very personable. Raiders got trounced. Kept thinking - man these guys are good.
saints won SB the next year. Our turn is coming...
Whoops!
This year's Raider game for me might be huey's bengals.
Any of you guys going?
>>>>
...for the league leader in penalties and 8 TD receptions given up? Yikes! IMO, Routt became labeled as an elite CB only because of the big money the Raiders threw at him.
The player Routt likely replaces, Brandon Carr, should probably be on the Raiders watch list.
>>>>
It bugs me we are agreeing so much. lol
Routt was here 7 years, and the only year he was deemed good was by the stats, two years ago.
By the eyes, I didn't see it (and yes, I am usually a stats guy.)
I don't recall any big plays in 7 years, but plenty of horrible ones.
Great players don't take 7 years to be great.
I'll take Carr at an increased price over Routt any day.
from the media: "Routt is still owed $5 million next month from the Raiders, who released him after the first year of a $54.4 million, five-year deal. The $11 million Routt will make in 2012 puts him among the three highest-paid cornerbacks in the NFL."
Sorry to keep harping on this, but I'm being told Routt cost the Raiders only $10M for one season when, actually, he cost them $15M.
Raiders are reportedly $11M over the cap and they are laden with inflated contracts.
McKenzie has his work cut out for him. Sure, he can restructure a couple or three deals, but this process keeps compounding itself, e.g., just like the $5M we still owe Routt.
People hoping to retain Bush will hate this article:
Assuming Arian Foster — a restricted free agent — stays in Houston, that leaves Michael Bush as perhaps the most complete back likely to hit the open market. We’d rank Peyton Hillis, BenJarvus Green-Ellis, Cedric Benson, and Mike Tolbert as the next guys in line.
Bush wore down late last year, failing to top 80 rushing yards in his last six starts. He’s better used as a complementary player. Tolbert may be the best value of the group because he has a versatile skill and won’t cost a lot. Benson no longer breaks tackles and can’t help on passing downs.
Hillis and BGE are examples why you shouldn’t overpay for backs.
Hillis would have cost a lot more money a year ago, but his limitations, attitude problems, and injury issues popped up in 2011. Green-Ellis entered the league as an undrafted free agent and wound up as the starting running back on the No. 1 AFC seed the last two years.
Instead of paying Green-Ellis in free agency, teams should look to find the next "Law Firm" late in the draft. Or after the draft is over.
http://tinyurl.com/84krbe8
...end quote...
With the SB being played with two top QB's and a 4th, 7th, and UNDRAFTED RB's being featured... I think Nush will have a hard time finding the payday he is hoping for.
Bush is a solid runner and receiver, so losing him will hurt, but I can't see the Raiders placing a franchise tag on him. I think he's as good as gone. I will be happily surprised if, somehow, he stays.
NYR,
I don't see us placing the tag on Bush either. What I would like to see happen is for us to offer Bush a mid-level deal with incentives and a fair up front bonus.
If Bush's demands are too high, we find the best possible replacement.
I think one of McKenzie's biggest challenges will be to get our financial house in order and restructure how our cap dollars are allocated.
In order to accomplish that will require some tough dollars and sense decisions on how to get the most bang for our buck.
"NYR"...This???
"Raiders are reportedly $11M over the cap and they are laden with inflated contracts."
We are reported to be $3.5 Mil under the Cap!!!
Conflicting reports on Routt's $$$....Word was by releasing him prior to 3/5 that $$$ was wiped off and NOT guaranteed...So who you want to believe???..."J-Mac" reported it was wiped out!!!
Who's your guy???
As for Bush he was a 4th rd pick who was injured and sat out his 1st season..He has been a very good assets but NOT #1 material...Not yet anyway...
As for Routt he has proven himself over time as a consistent producer...So now you can see Al Davis was NOT stupid/senile to pay the man for his services...That's just gotta hurt your feelings now that Al's deal looks so good!!!..Now that he's a "Squaw" don't expect him to draw as many flags as when he was a Raider....
Raiders | Could let Chaz Schilens walk in free agency
Mon, 20 Feb 2012 07:55:50 -0800
The Oakland Raiders will likely let impending free-agent WR Chaz Schilens walk this offseason. Schilens has been hampered by numerous injuries during his career.
Raiders | Interested in Marques Colston?
Mon, 20 Feb 2012 07:52:45 -0800
There has been speculation the Oakland Raiders will make a run at New Orleans Saints impending free-agent WR Marques Colston.
Here's what J-Mac wrote:
"Routt, who will have earned $15 million with the Raiders, according to one report, will get $11 million this season and $19.3 million over three years."
One-and-done for $15M. That's a huge payday for marginal talent.
Instead of spreading the wealth around, as Davis had hoped to do when he said he could sign multiple players in place of Nnamdi, he banked on one player that just didn't come through for him. It was a gamble that didn't pay off.
Hope Chaz doesn't get picked up by an AFCW team cuz I want to root for him on a different team. I wonder if had came up with that screen pass somehow he wouldn't be let go???
Colston would be a huge upgrade, but I don't think NO is going to let him walk.
Q: You played with Carson Palmer in his prime. You played with him after his injuries and coming out of "retirement." Is he close to being back to what he was?
A: He's different -- was much more vocal in Oakland then I ever remember him in Cincinnati. That aspect he is different. Throwing the ball, it's weird man. I thought he threw the ball with more velocity. I'm biased toward Carson, but when we worked out (during Palmer's retirement) he was throwing the ball so hard -- more so than going into his last year in Cincinnati. I think he noticed that. It was hard coming in midway. He said when he went in the first game against Kansas City, he only knew a few plays.
Then they had a bye, but it was harder than he thought. He admitted it to me. I think now, the offense he's in with (coordinator Greg Knapp) is perfect, perfect, perfect for him. Greg Knapp probably has one of the best playbooks of any offensive coordinator I played under. What he likes to do with his quarterback is perfect for Carson. I think he's going to do really well.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...content_stream
Gary,
"Just every game after defenses made the needed adjustments. Its not like I picked and chose a game here.. a game there. EVERY GAME after his second start was pretty horrible."
If you go back and look, McFadden was leading the league based primarily on TWO games. After that his lead over other backs was shrinking every week.
You also fail to look at the FACT that Bush, unlike McFadden, played hurt (as Calico pointed out). And, you fail to look at the FACT that our defense couldn't keep anyone in check and that we were throwing the ball more over the last five games because Hue Jackson had begun to panic (my opinion) that his blockbuster trade needed to prove out. That trade was made so we could make the playoffs. We did not.
So, yes you are cherry picking, whereas I put four years worth of data out there to support my argument. Look at the entire body of work for both players, then show me the error of my ways. Don't just come out with "Well, over the last six games...".
In those games where McFadden was leading the league he only went over 100 twice. Two monster games. The rest were average to pedestrian. Bush has had several monster games himself over the years. Both are capable. In a case like that, I like the one who can answer the bell every Sunday.
If Bush leaves via free agency, I look for Green Bay, New England, The Giants and especially the Jets to take a run at him. All of them could use a consistant power running back who can also catch the ball.
I would also expect him to have a very good season.
H
Expectations are high for the Raiders coming into this next season, in my mind. I agree we don't need to bombard the whole team, just make adjustments. The first adjustment was made by cutting Routt. I think we can and should cut Tommy Kelly and John Henderson, whether we stay in the 4-3 or switch to the 3-4. Here's why:
To be effective in the 4-3 you have to have a "big" NT to compliment the DT and stuff the run, and keep the QB from scrambling up the middle on a pass play blown by coverage. We had that for a few years with Sam Adams, Chester McGlockton, Darrell Russell, Grady Jackson, Ted Washington, Bob Golic, etc.
Then you have to have speed not only at the CB position, but the LB position, which is what Romanowski, Biekert, Hendricks, Rod Martin, Greg Townsend, and Phil Villapiano brought.
The point is, when we had these two, a stout NT and speedy LB's; we had great defenses.
I think we need to cut Kelly, John Henderson, and Wimbley or Curry (preferrably Wimbley because Curry is faster). Then here is what we do.
Sign Jarrett Johnson(LB, B-more), Kelly Gregg or Aubrayo Franklin as a free agent NT to compliment Seymore and the D-line.
Then go after Cortland Finnegan or Brandon Carr as #1 CB, and Jarrett Bush as a possible #2 CB; and Tyvon Branch and Michael Griffin as Safeties (cutting Huff or using him as a CB).
Offensively, if we lose Michael Bush, bring in someone like Ryan Gant, Cedric Benson, Peyton Hillis; a bruiser who can run up the middle. It looks like Marshawn is going to get the Franchise tag in Seattle.
Go after Brady Quinn, Sage Rosenfels, or David Carr as a cheap back up QB.
If we want to go after a cheap Free Agent receiver to be our #1, then we should go after Plaxico Burress or maybe even Reggie Wayne.
If we want to fork over dough, I say DeSean Jackson or Marques Colston.
That would be my Free Agent splash.
Nate,
Interesting list. But, I would say we should be sure we have the FA's lined up before we start kicking folks out the door.
H
There is one free agent I would like to see Raiders sign this off season.
DT, Sione Pouha, NY Jets.
Pouha will probably not be franchised by Jets.
He would really, finally, help Raiders stop the run.
And he fits into Mckenzie plan, because this guy comes to play every game.
That's my short wish list.
>>>
If Bush leaves via free agency, I look for Green Bay, New England, The Giants and especially the Jets to take a run at him. All of them could use a consistant power running back who can also catch the ball.
>>>>
HAHAHAHAHA!
I'd like to see that.
Those are smart franchises... he wants starter dollars and has backup numbers (despite your bluster about him).
He will end up in one of the bottom-feeding franchises. Browns, Rams, Redskins, TB territory.
Sadly, if Al was alive, he'd prolly agree with you and toss him a gazillion dollar contract.
No I don't miss those days.
>>>
I would also expect him to have a very good season.
>>>>
I'm guessing he gets a one year "prove it or you're out of the NFL" contract.
If so, he might actually get in shape and lose 15 to 20 pounds and turn into a decent back.
If he gets a long term deal big fat deal from some bottom feeder, he will end up like Lamont Jordan.
Out of the NFL in two years.
>>>
That would be my Free Agent splash.
>>>>
Umm, I love the way you think and that would really help the team, but are you under the impression we are like KC and are 60 mill under the cap?
We are 11 mill OVER yet... and have to make some painful choices just to get under.
We might sign one premium FA this year, IMO... two tops.
Unless of course McK blows up the team and starts over.
This comment has been removed by the author.
"If so, he might actually get in shape and lose 15 to 20 pounds and turn into a decent back."
Close to 1,400 yards of offensive production while getting less than 1/2 a season of starts ... "decent"? Please name another "backup" with 1,400 yards of offensive production.
I get it. You don't want him. You don't want the Raiders to sign him. You don't think he is worth much.
I'm not saying Bush is an elite RB but the way you negatively characterize his abilities is way off the mark.
"Gannon thinks Palmer’s skill set is roughly similar to that of Matt Schwab, who flourished under Knapp with the Houston Texans."
This will also translate to the lowest Cap hit for this Draft Class 2012:
Raiders | Have smallest 2012 draft class
Thu, 23 Feb 2012 08:29:15 -0800
The Oakland Raiders currently have the smallest draft class in the NFL this year with only a fifth- and a sixth-round pick. They will, however, likely receive two or three compensatory picks. The earliest will be at the end of the third round.
McKenzie: Expect more change
"Raiders general manager Reggie McKenzie said Thursday he has been meeting with agents to talk about contracts with existing players and guessed there will be more players who are released beyond cornerback Stanford Routt."
"Releasing Wimbley and Huff would cost the Raiders $10.25 million in guaranteed money on contracts written last season."
Therefor I doubt either gets the boot but rather are invited back with a few adjustments in $$$$...If Huff can play "CB" than he's an asset but if not than he's hardly worth the $$$$...Wimbley is a much better -n- more productive player and I don't expect him to be moved....
Report: Chiefs in the hunt for Manning
LoL!!!....Their 2 lower tier "QB"s are NOT exciting anyone???
This is rather funny...Tebow -n- Quin evidently don't see eye to eye...Or their "GQ" (God's QB) is too far off...LoL!!!
Those four quarterbacks are Quinn, Jason Campbell, Kyle Orton and Chad Henne. They'll all be available, and they all have the same things in common: They're tweeners. Just not the Twilight young adult fiction tweeners. They've all shown varying degrees of promise, but not enough where they can be handed a first-string gig. These are players who are caught in the purgatory between being a No. 1 and a No. 2. None of them will be given a starting job anymore, so they'll have to settle for the potential opportunity of being one at some point.
That much really hurt all the "JC"'s the man crowd???
PantyRaider...Upside Down NFL Market!!!/_
>>>>
Please name another "backup" with 1,400 yards of offensive production.
>>>>
He was ELEVENTH in the league in carries. 44th in YPC.
He had plenty of chances to excel. Believe me, I called "Bush up the gut" like 400 times before the snap this past season.
He got his chance as a starter on a team that WAS in the top 5 in rushing... and flopped.
>>>
I get it. You don't want him. You don't want the Raiders to sign him. You don't think he is worth much.
>>>
I'd offer him 2.5 mill for ONE year with the stipulation he actually shows up at the training room and loses 20 pounds. Take it or leave it.
>>>>
I'm not saying Bush is an elite RB but the way you negatively characterize his abilities is way off the mark.
>>>>
We are clearly watching two different games then.
Is Bush a home-town Cali boy or something? I don't get the Bush bro-mance here.
Click here:
http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/rushing/sort/rushingAttempts
And look through all the RB's that are under 4 yards a carry.
Its like the bargain bin at Walmart:
Benson, Bush, B-G-E, Danial Thomas, Hillis, Thomas Jones.
Name one player in the top 30 in attempts under 4 YPC you would want to build your franchise around.
I mean besides Bush. lol
"NYR"...
Not sure where your getting your quotes from "J-Mac" but here is what I read from him:
"Routt’s three-year $31.5 million extension was reported as guaranteed to the tune of $20 million. Now there are reports that it was actually $15 million, with the Raiders having escaped a $5 million guarantee by cutting him what they did. A great deal for Routt, either way, he’ll get to sign another contract."
http://www.ibabuzz.com/oaklandraiders/2012/02/18/nfl-guarantees-are-occasionally-pipe-dreams/
This is what I posted before and post it again...Clearly it reads that Routt had a $15 Mil Guarantee which was voided by the Raiders when they cut him before it became mature...I don't know how your reading anything else into this??...It's very clear and simple...
As per the Cap $$$ Problems This:
As of Sunday, Feb. 12, the Oakland Raiders had $3.23 million in excess salary cap space that can be carried over to next year.
2012-02-14 07:50:57 | Source: ProFootballTalk.com
This was some 6 days prior to cutting loose Routt and his big $$$$ so one would expect that figure has grown to at least $8.25 Mil under or perhaps the whole $11 Mil + $3.25 Mil = $14.25 Mil under the Cap???
Here it is again as I posted it last time so not sure why you still get this screwed up???
----------------------------------
Raiders | Have some cap wiggle room
Tue, 14 Feb 2012 07:50:57 -0800
As of Sunday, Feb. 12, the Oakland Raiders had $3.23 million in excess salary cap space that can be carried over to next year.
Read more: http://www.kffl.com/team/28/nfl/oakland-raiders#ixzz1nJqxM0EC
----------------------------------
OK!!!...So we are officially already under the Cap!!!...Any arguments???
PantyRaider...Surely You Can't Argue With That!!!!/_
PR - Routt's guarantee is reported to have been $20M, which was somehow cut to $15M when he was released. Hence, the actual cost was $15M.
You seem to want to take another $5M off that price tag... as I'm sure the Raiders would love to as well.
Also, the $11M over the cap I read came from the media. Whether or not it's accurate is certainly debatable.
However, when it comes to cap stuff, there is some transparency built-in to the process due to reporting requirements. I believe by the 2nd week in March we will know exactly where the Raiders stand.
It may become evident before then if they need space and cut more players and/or renegotiate contracts.
@ Gary,
Those are my opinons, which is why I stated that would be my free agent splash.
At least I am man enough to put an opinion out on what I think the Raiders can do to fill holes in the team with talent.
Haven't heard anything like that from you.
Bluster??????????????
Bush performed better on an 8-8 team, than any of the backs on those teams. And, he wasn't the starter.
Based on your analysis, I guess we would have to say Al Davis was an idiot for drafting the guy in the first place since he is so worthless according to you.
You seem to have this man crush on McFadden. It doesn't matter that over a four year span the guys numbers are near identical to McFadden in virtually every category, according to you Bush is crap and McFadden is the next coming of Jim Brown.
Compare them side by side over four years and show me where I'm wrong. Simple question, should be a simple answer.
The guy who has been on the field every Sunday, or the guy who spends five games a year in his civies. That's my question and you just won't go there.
H
Raider Nate 75 said...
@ Gary,
Those are my opinons, which is why I stated that would be my free agent splash.
At least I am man enough to put an opinion out on what I think the Raiders can do to fill holes in the team with talent.
Haven't heard anything like that from you.
>>>>
Ok, its my opinion that I should be a millionaire. That doesn't mean it is reasonable or that it should happen.
Hell, we should trade McFadden for Wilfork and a first rounder, and then CP for Aaron Rodgers.
Then it wouldn't matter if Bush was our RB.
Those are my opinions... are you fine with them?
>>>>
Compare them side by side over four years and show me where I'm wrong. Simple question, should be a simple answer.
>>>>
I already did. Its in this thread, I think.
Bush's YPC has been DECLINING every year; as McFaddens has been INCREASING every year, and this is under the exact same time frame, coaching scheme, o-line, etc.
You seem to be saying one should invest our money in a stock that is dropping like a rock, and sell off the stock that has been shooting up to do it!
Is that how YOU make money???
Look, I thought everyone was excited to have a GM that doesn't make careless reaches and wild gambles.
A smart GM keeps McF unless someone offers him something he can't refuse (the Wilfork and a draft pick example) IT ISNT HAPPENING.
A smart GM lets Bush go because he can find a comparable RB at a fraction of the cost. Thats what ALL well-run NFL teams do.. they don't invest a ton of money at RB. The time to trade McF was LAST YEAR, before he took the majority of the money out of his contract. I think McF is costing us like 6 million this year. Thats a bargain.
Why are you clamoring for stupidity from our new GM?
I don't get it...
"I think McF is costing us like 6 million this year. Thats a bargain."
A relative "bargain" if (keyword "if") he spends more time on the field than in his civilian clothes.
Nothing would please me more than to see McFadden a healthy for a complete season.
I believe one of the ways of meeting that objective is to distribute the carries in a more balanced way. Reducing McFadden's load is a prudent, long term strategy.
I also believe that for the Raiders rushing attack to be diversified, healthy, and potent, it needs to use a committee approach of McFadden, Bush, and Jones. If Bush departs, we need to find a suitable replacement power RB to complement McFadden/Jones.
>>>
The guy who has been on the field every Sunday, or the guy who spends five games a year in his civies. That's my question and you just won't go there.
>>>>
Ok... fine... here we go!
One guy played in 61 games to get 3521 all purpose yards.
The other played in 45 games to get 3818 all purpose yards.
Without knowing anything else about these two RBs, which would you prefer and why??
The top one because he played in more games??
Sorry... that seems kinda crazy to me...
CJ... I am in complete agreement with that post.
Micheal Bush is like Lamont Jordan.
Both show great flashes as backups.
They tempt teams, and make them believe they can be great starters.
But once starters, they prove to be only very good backups.
Raiders were burned by Jordan.
As Roger Daltry would say, "Don't get fooled again"!!!!
Bring back Buch as a backup, for backup money. No franchise tag.
If he wants to start, then say goodbye.
Put the money into DT Sione Pouha.
@ Gary,
So childish. At least mine were reasonable free agent signings, and moves that are possibilities; with reasonable cuts that wouldn't break the bank.
Raider 00 -
The day of the 1 back offense died a long time ago so I don't get hung up on "starter" vs. "backup" arguments. If a RB is getting 150-200+ carries a season, he is an integral part of the offensive plan.
Personally, I would love to see the Raiders bring back Bush with a fair market contract equal to his value to the team. Not funny money but money that is on par for a guy who is an important cog to our offense.
His role of soaking up some of the rushing attempts, being used in short yardage situations, his nose for the end zone, abilities as a pass catcher, and bruising between the tackle runs are key components to our overall offensive scheme.
If Bush's contract demands are out of line, of course, it will be a moot point.
McFadden's salary is something like $5.6 mil next year. I'm guessing it might cost more than that to bring Bush back.
Bush is a solid runner and receiver. He's also a marginal blocker and never became the short-yardage back he should have been relative to his size (perhaps a coaching issue as much as the player - but Skipper is the returning RB coach).
McFadden is superior to Bush in every regard, except durability.
At McFadden's current salary, he is probably even more attractive to teams that would consider a trade.
In the end, I believe either combination of McF/Jones or Bush/Jones with the addition of a FA RB will work for the Raiders.
I strongly doubt the entire trio will return.
Regardless of the outcome, I agree with CJ that carries must be better distributed... and Jones should be much more involved.
The crux of it to me is can we count on McFadden to be our primary back in 2012. Do you feel comfortable rolling the dice on McFadden w/o a proven "back-up"?
If I had confidence in McFadden's durability for 2012, I would feel better about drafting a RB or finding a cheaper alternative to Bush.
It make sense to use T. Jones more to take 5-10 carries that would otherwise go to McFadden.
If we go into the FA market to find a replacement to Bush, I hope it is the type of back that can pick up the majority of carries if McFadden goes down again AND is relatively low cost.
"NYR"...
Your computations are incorrect but evidently you want to believe the worst so go right ahead...But I will try one more time to add some clarity:
#1...(was reported as guaranteed to the tune of $20 million)...That $20 Mil was misreported info and now is corrected to the reality of $15 Mil..(Now there are reports that it was actually $15 million)...
#2...(with the Raiders having escaped a $5 million guarantee by cutting him)...The $5 Mil was only guaranteed if Routt made the 2012 roster which he didn't so it's vaporized...
#3...$15 Mil - 2012 $5 Mil still = $10 Mil for 2011....
Funny...Your completely miss reading the word problem here...
---------------------------------
"Routt’s three-year $31.5 million extension was reported as guaranteed to the tune of $20 million. Now there are reports that it was actually $15 million, with the Raiders having escaped a $5 million guarantee by cutting him what they did. A great deal for Routt, either way, he’ll get to sign another contract."
PantyRaider....I Hated Word Problems!!!/_
"H"...
I resemble that comment!!!
"D-Mac" is my Boy and Yes I'm a faithful Pimp!!!...LoL!!
Don't pick on the man's talents...He's proved what he can do...Now we have a training staff that can prolley keep him and other valued players healthy...We hope...
I like Bush too but Bush is much easier to replace than "D-Mac"...Bush has good hands and an arm to go along with his power running and down field speed but lacks the explosiveness of the top NFL "RB"s....
"D-Mac" has shown all that explosiveness along with his hands and arm but has lacked durability...As a pair they are a monster especially when Reece is added to that equation...
Than there's "TJ"!!!
We ran very well under Knapp with only Jordan -n- "Crash Dummy"...I suspect we will do well now with "D-Mac"/Bush/"TJ"/Reece....If someone is missing it should be Bush who is replaced by another power runner with hands...The "Hands" are an important element in our "O"...
PantyRaider....All Purpose Yards Is The Key!!!!/_
Raider Nate 75 said...
@ Gary,
So childish. At least mine were reasonable free agent signings, and moves that are possibilities; with reasonable cuts that wouldn't break the bank.
>>>
I respectfully disagree... but I still like the way you think!
I still guess one MAYBE two blue chip FA signings.
>>>>
We ran very well under Knapp with only Jordan -n- "Crash Dummy"...I suspect we will do well now with "D-Mac"/Bush/"TJ"/Reece....
>>>>
2007: 4th in attempts and 6th in yards... disturbingly 18th in TD's.
2008: 10th, 10th, and even more disturbingly 28th in TD's.
We WILL run the ball next season... hopefully get into the endzone more!
Hey, all the more reason to retain one of the leagues most prolific rusher, right PR??
Gary...
That 18th in "TD"s reflects how piss poor that Passing "O" was at #31...It's a wonder we could run at all when everyone knew we couldn't throw....
So under those circumstances I would say being #6 in yds is pretty damn good with only that stable of "RB"s and literally NO passing game to take the heat off our "RB"s....
Would you expect us to be any worse with a legitimate passing threat like Palmer and the stable of "RB"s we can now field???
Now remember we were #2 Rushing most of the 2011 season until "D-Mac" was lost and Bush wore down and still finished at #7....Reece was out much of the season and so was "TJ"....
Also what contributed was a few other teams losing their "QB"s and going very run heavy as a result which helped to slide us down...Namely both Denver-n-Houston...Than Philly/Carolina had running "QB"s to pat their Rushing stats as well so I think if you look at pure "RB" running we were easily top 5...
By "08" Knapp was no longer calling the plays as Cable took over and had his own "PGC" to call/design the passing plays so I wouldn't give Knapp much credit for what happened that season...Would you???
PantyRaider....Rushing Should Be The Least Of Our Worries!!!!/_
Gary....
I want Bush back...NO Doubt!!!
If he plays hardball about $$$ than he's easier to replace than "D-Mac" as I posted above but it needs to be a Rusher who also has good hands in the passing game...
Those all purpose yds are a must!!!
One thing here of note is Reece who posted some very good #'s rushing...He's prolley a much better short yardage back than Bush and has the hands and the down field speed...
Than we also have the "Rock" who can pound it as well so I'm not really terrified at any threat of losing Bush...
PantyRaider...."D-Mac" Is Key!!!/_
PR - I think we both agree the Raiders cut bait and saved $5M, but it still cost them last year's salary plus $5M this year. Total cost: $15M.
I've read conflicting reports on the Internet as to the duration of Routt's contract, but all are pretty clear that Routt is still owed $5M from the Raiders.
This was posted 2/20/12
"Routt is still owed $5 million next month from the Raiders, who released him after the first year of a $54.4 million, five-year deal."
Here's another one:
"Sources close to Shutdown Corner confirmed the deal, and also that Routt will receive $5 million from his Raiders contract as a guaranteed roster bonus despite the fact that Oakland released the six-year veteran on Feb. 9"
Here's another:
"Routt is still owed $5 million next month from the Raiders."
So the Raiders did save $5M off the original $20M reported as guaranteed, but Routt still cost them an extra $5 over his huge salary from last year.
Also, I read reports that last year Routt had agreed to extend the original 3-year deal to a 5-year deal (hence the report above) to save the Raiders cap space. Apparently, the guarantee was structured in such a way to allow the Raiders to do what they just did... release him and save $5M.
I believe that was the crux of J-Mac's article, that guarantees aren't always what they appear to be.
"The crux of it to me is can we count on McFadden to be our primary back in 2012. Do you feel comfortable rolling the dice on McFadden w/o a proven "back-up"?" (CJ)
Not sure we have much choice in the matter. This thing will play out according to Bush's intention.
If Bush leaves, we absolutely have to find a reliable backup.
IMO, we stick with McFadden unless we find a suitable trade.
Unfortunately, we stand to lose Bush before any trade would be struck, so we won't have the luxury of having both in hand unless we spend more than we should to retain Bush as a FA.
CJ,
I agree with you to a point.
The day of the 1 back offense, has diminished, but not died.
Obviously, it depends on who the RB is.
There are still some backs around the league that carry the load.
And Mcfadden would be one of them, if he could stay healthy.
My point about Bush was simply, the more carries he got, the less effective he was.
Just like Lamont Jordan.
Raider 00--Personal foul, 15 yard penalty. To even THINK of comparing Michael Bush to LaMont "Dancing Bear" Jordan. Bush plow through and over people and can catch while Jordan danced and couldn't catch a cold.
The Ref
"NYR"....
This was the original report that has sense been corrected to $15 Mil guaranteed:
---------------------------------
Oakland Raiders veteran cornerback Stanford Routt has restructured his three-year, $31.5 million contract, boosting the deal now to five years and a total of $54.5 million, according to a league source with knowledge of the situation.
According to the source, Routt restructured his deal by reallocating the majority of his $10 million base salary this year and tying it to a roster bonus and tacking on two years to the deal at the same salary as his scheduled 2013 compensation of $11.5 million.
Under these figures, Routt's annual average compensation is $10.9 million per year.
Routt originally signed a three-year, $31.5 million contract that included $20 million in guaranteed money by guaranteeing his $10 million 2011 base salary, 2012 $5 million base salary and giving him a $5 million signing bonus.
---------------------------------
Some reports are trying to say that the "Signing Bonus" of $5 Mil is still owed in March...But according to what was reported that $$$ is terminated..."j-Mac" -n- "Adam Caplan, who has much of this contract stuff wired"....
"According to multiple reports, Routt's $5 million salary in 2012 -- not an exorbitant sum for a starting cornerback -- also would have been guaranteed had he been on the roster Friday."
"Now there are reports that it was actually $15 million, with the Raiders having escaped a $5 million guarantee by cutting him what they did."
"Still, contract reporting is one of the most imprecise parts of the business. That’s why you’ll see the word “reported” preceding most, if not all, contract issues that are dealt with here."
Agents are OK with overblown reports of guarantees because prospective clients will see it and figure they can get the same. Teams aren’t concerned with it because if they’re viewed as a team that pays that kind of money, what the heck? And it’s not as if players are going to step forward immediately after signing a contract and say, “You know, this isn’t nearly as big of a contract as it looks.”
Raiders | Feel Carson Palmer a good fit in new scheme
Sat, 25 Feb 2012 07:07:34 -0800
Oakland Raiders head coach Dennis Allen said Friday, Feb. 24, he is confident QB Carson Palmer was athletic enough to fit in offensive coordinator Greg Knapp's system, which often requires the quarterback to move out of the pocket. "We're not going to force-feed something if it doesn't fit what a guy does really well," Allen said. " ... But I do think when you look at Carson Palmer, that he does have the same type of athleticism. He's as athletic as Matt Schaub, who they had in Houston, to really be able to run that same package."
Raiders | Believe Darren McFadden will succeed in new scheme
Sat, 25 Feb 2012 05:55:36 -0800
There have been doubts as to whether Oakland Raiders RB Darren McFadden will be successful in the team's zone-blocking scheme. However, head coach Dennis Allen said offensive coordinator Greg Knapp - who was Oakland's coordinator in McFadden's first NFL season in 2008 - will put McFadden in position to be successful. Thus, the offense will likely be flexible enough to cater to McFadden's skills.
Raiders | Darren McFadden not on the trading block
Sat, 25 Feb 2012 05:48:48 -0800
Oakland Raiders head coach Dennis Allen indicated RB Darren McFadden will be part of the team's plans moving forward. There has been speculation that McFadden might be traded in an attempt by Oakland to recoup draft picks. The Raiders have very few picks this year. Allen said the Raiders were "much more" difficult to defend last season when McFadden was in the lineup. McFadden was lost for the season Oct. 23 with a foot injury.
REF,
I'm giving you a 15 yard personal foul penalty.
How can you think of calling yourself, "The Ref", on a Raiders blog ?
Are you suppose to be Walt Coleman ?
You've got to be joking!!!!!!
Raider 00-
After that LaMont Jordan reference I might as well be Walt Coleman!
Allen said the Raiders were "much more" difficult to defend last season when McFadden was in the lineup.
>>>
There is a god!
Stabler and CWood left the Raiders too soon.
No need to keep doing it...
Raider 00--Personal foul, 15 yard penalty. To even THINK of comparing Michael Bush to LaMont "Dancing Bear" Jordan. Bush plow through and over people and can catch while Jordan danced and couldn't catch a cold.
The Ref
Hi Ref.
The Bush dances too much too.
Agreed with his hands though... Best fat RB's hands I have ever seen.
>>>>
One thing here of note is Reece who posted some very good #'s rushing...He's prolley a much better short yardage back than Bush and has the hands and the down field speed...
>>>
Reese was completely under-used by Hue in favor of Bush... Reese looked very fast in hitting the hole... something I have never seen with Bush.
The hands are comparable.
Just sign a journeyman RB, and use Reese more.
Seems like money saved to me... (if I were GM.)
Shrug... I bet that is what happens.
>>>
My point about Bush was simply, the more carries he got, the less effective he was.
Just like Lamont Jordan.
>>>>
Clap clap.
At least Bush could catch a screen pass though. I don't know how many clutch screen passes I saw Jordan drop with a wide open field in front of him at crucial times.
At least 4-5.
The guy was a LOSER. Plain and simple.
"Stabler and CWood left the Raiders too soon."
**********************************
So true Gary. and so did Matt Millen. That cat had a lot of great football left in him after Raiders dumped him.
Never could understand why they did it.
Gary -n- Raider00...
Sean Jones!!!!
Could have still used Grady Jackson as well...
Than there was Carr -n- Sterling Moore!!!
Reggie your on notice -n- better show that great ability to evaluate talent...You already dumped our only starting "CB" with any value now who's going to play his role???
"DVD"???
"CC"???
"CJ"....God forbid!!!
Huff???
Newbie???
PantyRaider...We Now Need 2 "CB"s!!!!/_
>>>
So true Gary. and so did Matt Millen. That cat had a lot of great football left in him after Raiders dumped him.
Never could understand why they did it.
>>>
Yup..
Asum, although not having a great year, could be up there by the time his career is over. Class guy.
Marcus Allen, of course... shoulda retired a raider.
No way could I handle McFadden having a pro-bowl career somewhere else. And I doubt anyone disagrees he doesn't have the TALENT. He hits the hole harder than anyone I have seen since Bo. Maybe AP...
No news, is no news. All's quiet in Raiderland.
H
True, Allen did say the Raiders were more difficult to defend with McFadden. But, that was also the first game of the season, and do you want more difficult for ten games, or solid for sixteen games.
I truly hope if they keep McFadden and let Bush go that they have a plan for keeping him on the field for at least 14-15 games.
Who knows, maybe since this is a contract year, McFadden will take the shot, or magically speed up the healing process and get back on the field. Seems to happen a lot in the NFL in contract years.
There is also the possibility that they are still considering a trade. If that were the case they wouldn't be out saying, we're trading the guy. Lowers his potential value.
I actually hope they keep both. I'm with Calico on this one. Based on his history it's definitely a roll of the dice to hope he will be there every Sunday.
H
I feel strongly that the Raiders should take a chance that Mcfadden can remain healthly.
His 2012 salary is a relative bargain and you can't replace him with a better player (on either side of the ball!).
There are plenty of players that have been labeled injury-prone and bounced back for productive careers. Burgess comes to mind.
Folks stuck by Chaz Schilens (still do) despite multiple injuries that have sidelined him for almost his entire career. Sure, his salary is far less, but his relative cost is similar.
Schilens was maintained on a roster with little or no depth at his position, and at the opportunity cost of replacing him with a vet WR that the Raiders were in desperate need of.
Unless folks expect McKenzie to open the Al Davis vault of big contracts, the Raiders probably have no choice but to let Bush walk and take their chances with McFadden. In this regard, it's almost pointless to discuss.
WE NEED someone who's not on permanent vacation dialing it in, to take over the official Raiders site.
Ever noticed how slow and boring Raiders.com is? talk about lack of info... it's the last place a Raider fan should go for news or updates, and about as exciting as staring at a closed door! See some interesting team news?... it'll be rushed to the site and posted within 7 to 10 days.
I'm thinking my grandma could do a better job!
bazjoz...
You are really funny...Keep it coming!!!
It didn't use to be this way but it certainly is now...But than allot of things didn't use to be this way!!!
If you like it "Fast-n-Furious" here's one that difficult to keep up with:
http://www.silverandblackpride.com/
PantyRaider...Just Trying To Help Out!!!/_
Did someone alter the format here or is just me???
I kinda don't like the white background -w- blue writing and orange???
What team is this again???
Robert Griffin III
The #2 pick is for sale by the Lambs...
What would you give???
"J-Mac" Writes: Bush Value???
"there’s no way the Raiders commit more than $7 million to a complementary back.
And that’s probably what Bush is. He did an admirable job taking over when McFadden’s mid-foot sprain derailed his season, with one of the best games any Raiders’ running back (Marcus, Bo, Napoleon Kaufman, you name it) has ever had again the San Diego Chargers. While it’s conceivable Bush numbers tailed off toward the end of the season because the Raiders became more predictable or the line wasn’t blocking as well, the fact is it happened.
So maybe it’s possible other teams see this during the free agency period and Bush comes back at a reasonable price if there is no big bounty to be had. Usually, however, one of 31 teams will ante up."
>>>>
The #2 pick is for sale by the Lambs...
What would you give???
>>>>
This could be pretty unprecedented due to the new rookie salary cap... plus Cam doing so well just last season.
The sky's the limit really... the Rams will get a quality player or two, and a bunch of draft picks.
Glad the Raiders are not in it...
For all Davis' strengths, what Allen describes in this excerpt from a transcript with the media has been missing in Oakland for at least a decade, probably much longer.
Q: How have you and Reggie worked together putting things together?
Allen: First and foremost, I think our relationship has been outstanding. We’ve discussed every situation that comes up, we’ve always discussed it. I’ve come to him with questions about coaching staff, he’s come to me with questions about personnel issues, and I think that’s the way you run a top quality organization, when your head coach and your general manager can see eye to eye, and can have conversations, and we might not always agree, but at the end of the day we’ve got to make sure we can come to the best decision for the Raiders and that’s what I’m excited about working with Reggie, because he’s a top quality human being and I think he’s an excellent talent evaluator.
"NYR"...
Please!!!...Those exact same words have been posted time and time again regarding the Raiders and it was about Hue-n-Al Davis or Cable-n-Al Davis and so on...It was also posted about Gruden for crying out loud!!!
That's the "Honeymoon Period" that's always talked about before any issues arise...It's what happens after there are issues that we hope will be more stable...NOT the freakin "Honeymoon"....
WHAT THE F MAN? OUR BELOVED FOOTBALL IS DELAYED A DAY BECAUSE OF THIS &%$$&()()&%$&^*((*^%*)_)( LOSER?
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7626288/nfl-season-start-wednesday-sept-5-due-democratic-national-convention
New take is up. The new look in the comments section is here to stay, apparently, it's out of my control. Sort of growing on me, though.
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