Five Postgame Takes
1. I ordered a filet mignon. The Raiders served me a crap sandwich.
2. After beating the Steelers, I thought we might have some momentum. But it was apparently just a moment.
3. We are now on pace for a 4-12 record. Sound familiar?
4. I'm keeping this short because I didn't see the whole thing. I saw just enough of the second and third quarters, and listened to the rest on the radio. The Clown Car is gassed up, but I'm not going to turn the key tonight. This wasn't a case of ineptitude. It was a matter of basic domination. Manning and the Broncos were just superior, in an obvious way. The Raiders weren't embarrassed, they were simply dominated. That said, the result was embarrassing.
5. We are rebuilding, which is always hard, and even harder when you lack draft picks and have a salary cap problem. That said, I see no reason why this team should be appreciably worse than last year. I thought it might be challenging to take a step forward this year. But I didn't foresee a big step backward in the win column. There's still time, but the backward path has been fairly paved in September. It looks like the long haul is upon us.
2. After beating the Steelers, I thought we might have some momentum. But it was apparently just a moment.
3. We are now on pace for a 4-12 record. Sound familiar?
4. I'm keeping this short because I didn't see the whole thing. I saw just enough of the second and third quarters, and listened to the rest on the radio. The Clown Car is gassed up, but I'm not going to turn the key tonight. This wasn't a case of ineptitude. It was a matter of basic domination. Manning and the Broncos were just superior, in an obvious way. The Raiders weren't embarrassed, they were simply dominated. That said, the result was embarrassing.
5. We are rebuilding, which is always hard, and even harder when you lack draft picks and have a salary cap problem. That said, I see no reason why this team should be appreciably worse than last year. I thought it might be challenging to take a step forward this year. But I didn't foresee a big step backward in the win column. There's still time, but the backward path has been fairly paved in September. It looks like the long haul is upon us.
posted by Raider Take at 9:17 PM
251 Comments:
So much for New Era of what again? We suck... Why was Hue Jackson let go for? Greg Knapp not cutting it, McFadden just waiting for another injury to happen before he "breaks out" and I'm not holding my breath.
LoL!!...Well remember when I posted it will be a very slow start but hopefully get good at the Bye while some damn dumb "Clowns" in your "ClownCar" were pimping "CHAMPS"!!!
Did I expect it would be this damn bad???...NOT a chance but said if it was Knapp has to be scrubbed in favor of Al Saunders...
Well now you can add a few more "Scrubbed"s to that list because that "D" that you promised was suppose to be "Unpredictable" -n- "Disguised" is Disgustingly Pathetic instead!!!....Bresnahan looked better and that's a terrible thing to have to post but the Press M-M would have been more apt at stopping the bleeding that the crap that was exhibited on that football field!!!
"Ding-Dong The Witch Is Dead"!!!
Like some of us posted be very careful what you wish for...NO it's NOT automatic that your a WINNER if you have your superlative "GM" and a "HC" who has the power to hire his own crew so your team looks like everyone else...NO it's NOT a winning season if we don't attract flags!!!
I don't know what's more pathetic??...This team the way it's playing or you scum bags who pimped all that "BS"!!!
PantyRaider....If The TRUTH Hurts Than Bare It....If Your Mind Hurts Than Share It....But You Will never/Ever Escape It!!!!!//_
IMO, that was an embarrassment on many levels (too many to count them all).
The Raiders were embarrassed by poor game planning; by inept in-game coaching; by Manning carving them up at will; by a Broncos defense that had its way with the Raiders O-line and was throwing Palmer around like a rag doll.
By virtue of zero Broncos' punts, and zero QB sacks against them(barely any pressure).
I was embarrassed for the Raiders. Why bother blitzing when your CBs are playing soft and giving Manning an easy outlet to beat the blitz. That was embarrassing.
The embarrassment lies deep. It exists by virtue of two teams appearing to be going in opposite directions. Two short years ago we beat them 59-14.
This quote sums up the embarrassment:
Dennis Allen: "They outplayed us in every phase of the game."
Actually, the Raiders played hard. Their biggest problem wasn't that they played a superior opponent. It's that they went to a gunfight without any bullets. The coaches forgot them.
That's embarrassing!
With hindsight, the outcome of the last weekend's game vs. the Steelers was rather deceptive. If anything, yesterday's game @ Denver brings the team back to reality. That is, the Raiders is work in process. It is not like the team only needs to plug a couple of holes to become a contender. Not to mention, the Raiders need to bring in something lot more than what they have shown to take on elite QB's.
I think embarrassment does not adequately describe the plight of the team. Potholes seem more apt.
I'm disappointed, but not dismayed. Hold fast.
Just plain old crap coaching... period. with no sign that there will be improvement. I imagine Hue has a huge smile on his face and why shouldn't he... we lost Al Davis and our QB and we still made 8/8, AND his play calling made McFadden look like a super star... at the moment they look like they couldn't beat Alabama or LSU... no identity, sick sick sick!
Take is now predicting 4-12. I’m staying the course at six or seven wins. What has been clear from the beginning is that McKenzie didn’t come here to further the ‘stretch the field’ philosophy of Sid Gilman or Al Davis. He came here to recreate what he knew in Green Bay. It’s a philosophy that should make many on this site quite happy, because it’s a return to the Gruden type of offense.
But many here seem to believe that it’s like switching on and off a light switch. If you prefer a West Coast style offense, you simply hire a new coaching staff and there you have it. This is going to be at least a three year project no matter what.
My two criticisms remain the same. 1 – If they wanted to switch to ZBS, they should have retained Bush and not McFadden. 2 – The Raiders needed to seriously focus on the amount of injuries plaguing the team for over five years and figure out a way to rectify it. One of the things that appear to be a problem is recognizing which players might be too delicate for the NFL. Ford is out for the whole season for the third time. Moore has spent time on the injury list and he will again. McFadden will likely be done before the half way point.
What is obvious is that the Raiders were better on both offense and defense last season. I expected that and was told that I was a pessimistic Raider hater. The reality is that Davis had this team headed toward competitive post season football, and they would have been there last season had Davis lived and Campbell remained unhurt.
McKenzie and Allen have reversed course to try a completely different path. They will find glory (if they find it) on their own terms. Not on Al Davis terms. The Al Davis Oakland Raiders are a thing of the past. Everything but the uniforms has come to an end. A McKenzie dynasty can be built over time, but not this season. Not this season.
Embarrassment to me means the Raiders are a better team and were not at all prepared for this game. it has nothing to do with the grand scheme of things leading to greener pastures.
It's about coaching and game planning and execution, and not getting spanked when you don't have to.
Can anyone tell me with the staight face that part of the plan includes the Raiders going from total domination over the Broncos to being completely dominated in less than two full seasons?
That's not a pothole. That's a sinkhole.
Lets face it, once again the team shows how lacking they are in the talent/heart dept. The O-line can't stop a pass rush, McFadden is running at half speed, Myers was getting blown up all game. The D-line is pretty much useless, has anyone in the history of football seen a D-line that can't even lay a hand on the QB?
And posters are blaming the coaches? Branch looked like a college boy, McClain looks like a retarded southern boy who doesn't know the meaning of FIGHTING for his football life. IMO, McClain is just another Jamucus Russell = all potential with little brains and no heart.
The coaches hands are tied with this bunch of losers. You could see the Defense giving up, AGAIN, very early in the game, can't win with these players, they have no heart or desire and yesterday showed that very clearly.
If these players do not want to play for the Raiders, then they will be out of the NFL very soon. They are the bottom of the barrel. You can blame the coaches, but, the coaches can't play the games. One poster in here complained that the Raiders didn't have the right gameplan on Defense....did you watch the game? They started off by blitzing heavy and no one could get to the QB who burned them every time they blitzed. So now the DC has to back off, he did and the Defense couldn't make a play to save their life. Do you hang that on the coaches?
Face it, the 'talent' sucks, this team needs a new roster. All you still crying for Hue, he lost this team, threw them under the bus, said they were gutless. If he was still coach, it would be the same crap, players not willing or unable to play at a level needed in the NFL. Blow it up Reggie, these players are losers.
JONES
Sure, the past was so rosey and Mr.Davis now had them going to the playoffs? BULLSHIT, this team peaked at the halfway point last year....why do all these fans forget that the team quit on Hue? They pulled the same routine they are pulling now = QUITTING. But all these history revisionists say that the team was on the cusp of PLAYOFFS. NO THEY WEREN't, they finished 8-8 and dove in the tank in the last 5 games of the year. Just face it, the 'talent' isn't there, these players aren't good enough. Did you see the tackling? Is that at playoff calibre? And if they did make the playoffs, they would get blown out in a heartbeat. Vince Lombardi couldn't win with these guys, no coach in history could win with these guys. This team is a roster full of quitters and dogs and we all know who put this team together. It's going to take a huge flush to rid the team of the quit that is in the dog.
JONES
he 'talent' isn't there, these players aren't good enough...
>>>>>
If the talent isn't there, how come we were number one in rushing when McF went down last year? What players are different?
The talent isn't there on DEFENSE sure... we knew that coming in... but what happened to the offense?
Explain please...
I'm predicting 4-12? Here we go again...No, I'm noting that that's our current pace.
If something doesn't change, then 4-12 is certainly a possibility.
Anything less than eight is really not acceptable.
Last year, for the 1st half of the season, the O-line could hold a block...this year and at the end of last year, the O-line is getting run over all game. The D can't get off the field and when they do, the other team just put up some more points. So the O is playing from behind after the 1st drive in 3 out of 4 games. Then after the 2nd drive, the O is behind by 2 scores. Now the other team just has to focus on the pass.
Look, the Corners suck, the Wr's suck, the O-line sucks, the D-line sucks, the safeties suck, the MLB sucks, McFadden is running like he doesn't give a damn. The only one I see playing with any heart is the QB and the 2 new LB's. All the rest is pure garbage. Now explain to me how the coaches are supposed to win with these lemons?
JONES
It's October and Raider Take is already out of tissues. Phhht! Remain calm.
Jones, good coupla takes there. I really admire Carson Palmer's poise. I feel the team simply got beat. It happens. It's football.
Heyward-Bey was a person we could not afford to lose, and DMac is losing power.
The discipline is there, but the dogs are already tired.
It could be a long season, let's learn from it.
Blanda, your take rocked.
...um, did you guys REALLY think the ship gets turned around in one season? If i were a doctor, i would order that you stop watching for a year or two... expectations are unrealistic. Hang tough!
Ahh...Two things never seem to change: (1) the Raiders inability to post a winning record; and (2) the increasingly desperate excuses as to why it should be so.
Now the excuse is the new coaching regime and schemes and the lack of talent and depth and...
Heaven forbid we expect the Raiders to be as good or better than last year.
Other teams, like the Niners with Harbaugh and the Broncos with Fox and Fisher with the Rams and many others show marked immediate improvements when the right regime shows up.
But the Raiders...Well, just keep aiming low. Just keep up the excuses. It's easy to do, because excuses are endless. There is no limit to them.
High expectations are for others, not the Raiders.
Ya, they got beat and they were beaten before the 1st half was over. You could see the Defense giving up in the 1st half and they were only down by 7. Just like Reggie Bush said, these guys will give up if you just keep pounding the ball at them.
It's pathetic that an NFL team will give up so early in a game and or season. But that's what these players do. You can't make them fight, you can't give them heart, if they don't have it, then they must be replaced. To replace them, will take some time, there aren't players just sitting on their couches who can come in and play....it will take a couple of drafts and FA signings to get some players that can play and fight at an NFL level.
With all the high draft picks the Raiders have had in the last 6 years, this team should be LOADED with talent...not even close. Russell, McClain, DHB, McQuitten, Houston, Huff... DB's that couldn't even make the cut....WHERE IS THE TALENT? Top draft picks traded away for over the hill Seymour and Palmer...I put my faith in this 'talent' and what a mistake that was.
JONES
I had high expectations, I was calling for a division win. Lets call a pig a pig. The players are low quality, until that is replaced, there isn't much hope. Can't win with shit players, no matter how good the coaching is. Those other teams you mention...have TALENT, Raiders don't, that isn't an excuse, that is just a plain fact.
JONES
I would have had high expectations this year IF St. McKenzie had kept Hue on as HC for one more year (giving him a SB or YOU'RE FIRED ultimatum) and hired someone else as DC. Instead he jumped all over a greenhorn HC (who almost certainly wouldn't have been hired by anyone else as HC) and then he REALLY screwed the pooch by bring back a proven loser like Knapp as OC.
I predicted this wouldn't work... but listened to the faithful here and other places, and drank the McKenzie Koolade with them.
Are you now pretending that you weren't one of the Koolade drinkers with this new regime, RT???
Or what is your point?
Another problem with the Raiders has been they are always in a clusterfuck, now we see they are still in a clusterfuck of transition...can't win when stuck in a cluster....can't win a horse race with dogs.
JONES
Would you please STFU with the Hue nonsense, Hue lost the team, does that not clue into your short term memory? If Hue was brought back, the team would have half assed it for him too.
JONES
JONES said...
Last year, for the 1st half of the season, the O-line could hold a block...this year and at the end of last year, the O-line is getting run over all game. The D can't get off the field and when they do, the other team just put up some more points. So the O is playing from behind after the 1st drive in 3 out of 4 games. Then after the 2nd drive, the O is behind by 2 scores. Now the other team just has to focus on the pass.
Look, the Corners suck, the Wr's suck, the O-line sucks, the D-line sucks, the safeties suck, the MLB sucks, McFadden is running like he doesn't give a damn. The only one I see playing with any heart is the QB and the 2 new LB's. All the rest is pure garbage. Now explain to me how the coaches are supposed to win with these lemons?
>>>>
But the DIDN'T SUCK LAST YEAR!!\
You are just pounding your little fists on the ground again trying to pretend it isn't so!
This team was a top ten offense with nearly the exact same players on offense... plus a huge UPGRADE at QB... the most important position on the field.
But you can't point fingers at the coaching staff, can you, Jones?
Look inside yourself and explain why that is?
Could it be because that would mean admitting you were completely wrong and assuming all would be swell with the new changes St. McK made in replacing the hated Al regime?
I will let the readers decide for themselves.... you can't blame the coaches so you blame the players.
These players were brought up in a culture of playing when they wanted, quitting when they wanted. We can see by the Miami game and the Denver game that in these 2 games they weren't really ready to give it all they had and then they would actually quit when it got a little to tough for them. Reggie Bush said it, now we have seen it in 2 out of 3 weeks. No heart, no courage, no desire to win = BUMS = loses.
JONES
If you go by stats, the Raider Offense this year is ranked where? Not far off from the same ranking as last year. Palmer has been putting up good numbers...but guess what, there is more to it than stats.
Gary, go back and watch the games from the last half of last year, you will see the same team you are seeing now = no heart, quitters. I am calling out the players because I thought a new environment would spark them to play at a higher level. Well guess what, that environment is still there. Meaning, the whole environment around them has changed, but the players haven't. So, putting it together, we can clearly see that these players are dogs.
I think what you want to potrait, Gary, is that Mr.Davis had this team filled with talent and it wasn't his fault at all. So you want to blame the shit players on the new coaches and Management. By doing this, it reinforces your BS that Mr.Davis had this team on the cusp of greatness, which is a total load of crap when you look at how the team folded at the last half of last year. Once again, St. Hue said the team quit, that they were dogs, or don't you remember?
JONES
8-8 isn't sucking? When the HC the year before was fired because he was 8-8? Do you remember the team going 1-4 in it's last 5 games of the year? Is that a playoff team? Really? St Hue told the world that he was pissed off at the players because they gave up? You don't remember? I do remember, that's why I say it's the players because obviously they aren't good enough.
When things get tough for these players, they wilt worse than the weeds in your back yard after spraying them with weed killer. Mr.Davis loaded the team with crap and paid them as though they were elite players. Now the team is capped out and stuck with a bunch of lemons. So, I am resigned to waiting some more, going to wait for the new regime to get the players they want and see what happens. It's the reality of being a Raider fan, so stop crying for St. Hue because he isn't coming back.
JONES
I'm not pretending anything.
I don't reside in the realm of low expectations, never have.
Which really seems to bother some people. Which I never understood, because our motto is Commitment to Excellence.
The new regime is underperforming my expectations. I've been pretty clear about that, haven't I?
I'm glad for those of you whose low expectations are being met. You seem quite smug and satisfied about it. Congratulations, the Raiders will have a non-winning record for the umpteenth straight year. Glad somebody feels good about that.
Nyraiders....great explanation. My personal opinion on this is the fact that we basically didn't have any penalties so we can't blame the refs for this excellent display of crap
Anonymous JONES said...
8-8 isn't sucking?
>>>>
I'd die for 8-8 again this year.
>>>>
When the HC the year before was fired because he was 8-8? Do you remember the team going 1-4 in it's last 5 games of the year?
>>>
A lot of heartbreak games in there.
Now we have been blown out by a 2-2 team and a 1-3 team.
And you consider this progress or something.
I am not the one making excuses.... this is EXACTLY what I figured would happen when they fired Hue, and ESPECIALLY when we brought back Knapp.
You guys drank the McKenzie Koolade and are now pretending your lips aren't stained. Its sickening to me.
I'm glad for those of you whose low expectations are being met. You seem quite smug and satisfied about it. Congratulations, the Raiders will have a non-winning record for the umpteenth straight year. Glad somebody feels good about that.
>>>>>
You sure have a habit of dealing from the bottom of the deck... don't you?
My expectations were nothing, true, but after reading your "minty fresh" Koolade garbage, and other crap ignoring how horrible the starting offense looked in the practice games, I drank YOUR Koolade too. I had high expectations.. just like you did.
Now you seem to want to pretend your lips weren't stained... you ALWAYS have high expectations!!
What a load of shit you sell, RT! Do you make your living in sales??
The late, great, Al Davis was in over his head. He created a nightmare in his latter years.
Now there is a new captain.
Erase the past.
Keep calm, carry on, and, please, don't fire the coaches.
We all want to win,
no kidding...!
But, get real,
let's start with discipline, they are now like fifth graders...
I get that, don't you.
Commitment means poise and patience, loyalty, sticking with the decisions your front ofice makes!
Excellence means making subtle adjustments as neded, but, by all means, this inherited squad will improve.
I think that is fair... and doable.
I'd rather play disciplined ball and lose some tough games than fall into the Al Davis version of what only worked until about the early nineties...
Allen gets three years, period.
Dealing from the bottom of the deck is saying I'm "pretending" something when I've actually been quite clear about it.
I'm glad I could at least temporarily elevate your expectations.
Raider Take said...
Dealing from the bottom of the deck is saying I'm "pretending" something when I've actually been quite clear about it.
I'm glad I could at least temporarily elevate your expectations.
>>>>
So you just shrug and say fuck it?
Or what is your point?
I am PISSED OFF because our new GM took a team that was near the top in rushing at this time last year, and now are DEAD LAST in rushing.
WITH THE EXACT SAME PLAYERS.
You think this is how we are to become excellent again? Or what is your point?
My point is that the new GM sold us fans a bill of goods.. that everything was going to be fixed.
It seems the only thing even close to being fixed is the penalties. I personally don't care how many penalties we receive in a blow out loss to previously the worst team in football, fer instance.
Oh.. I want ANSWERS to things like why the no-huddle disappeared, when it obviously helped us beat a good Pitts team.
You don't seem to care.
Based on the comments above, I don't think I saw the same game some of you watched.
Sorry, but I'm laying this game on the coaches. It's possible even with the best game plan the Raiders lose to what is obviously a superior Broncos team, but that game plan was far from perfect.
Allen stated in his weekly PCs that the Raiders would try and exploit Broncos weaknesses. They did just the opposite; they played right into the Broncos strengths.
If you want to strictly blame the players for soft coverage during blitzes, or not calling more screens and rollouts to counter the Broncos constant blitzing, then so be it. I don't see it that way.
The Raiders didn't dial up more blitzes and tighter coverage on D until the game was already decided.
The Broncos played that way the whole game, and it worked to a charm.
It doesn't take an NFL analyst to see that.
So if the goal is excellence, what are they really trying to accomplish here? It seems to me the only thing they are trying to accomplish is proving that the ZBS can work (results be damned) that the team doesn't need to have CP calling his own plays at the LOS (results be damned) and that we can cut down on penalties (results be damned.)
Like I said before, am I supposed to be happy we only had 4 penalties in a 30 point loss?
If the new regime does not care about the frigging results right now (as in doing anything they can think of to WIN THE DAMN GAME) why didn't they simply blow the entire team up? Cut Seymour and Kelly... trade McFadden and also CP? Jettison every veteran player on the team, and start over with nothing and a bunch of draft picks?
If they don't care about winning right now (which seems very obvious so far) then they were selling us a bill of goods in the off season.
It sure appeared to me they thought they were close enough for a play-off run. Nothing else makes sense.
NYR, how do you shoot a guy when all you have are blanks in your pistol? What game plan do you suggest, with these players that would have stopped Manning yesterday? You cried for blitzing all out, they started the game that way and Manning blew it away. Now Tarver had a choice left, back off and play for mistakes. Manning wasn't making any. The players couldn't make the plays, whether it was 3rd and 12 of 3rd and 2, Defense couldn't make a stop. You blame that on coaching? How bout like St Huey said in his last PC...." you want these guys to just man up and make a play, well, they couldn't do that". And you know why? Because it has become obvious that these players just can't do it no matter how "coached up" they are.
AND, what threats do the Raiders have on Offense? Moore? He is Avg, Hagan? Myers? Teams are taking away McFadden, telling the Raiders to beat them with Moore and Hagan, Myers Etc. They were going to Reece early and it was 10-6 at halftime. Within 6 minutes, Denver scored 21 points, you blame that on the coaching? Now the Offense has to catch up, Denver pins their ear's back and rush the QB. Screens and draws are not going to make up 25 points in a Qrtr.
JONES
Well Gary, when you understand that there is no playoffs with this core...the coaches did what they could yesterday, it's up to the players to come out and make it happen. The players seemed a little disinterested again yesterday. We have seen this from this core before, if it isn't going their way, or the other team shows that they are going to grind the Raiders, the players give up. Reggie Bush clearly said it.
How does a Defense make plays when the D-line is nowhere near the QB for at least 5 seconds? With a poor backfield? The D-line SUCKED which means the Defense has no chance. Then the Offense, when they are behind by 10-14 points early in every game, you can't try running the ball when the LOS is stacked. So you have to make their Defense respect the pass, but, when you have little or no playmakers at the WR position or TE....what would you call? What would be your gameplan?
Giving up 21 points in 6 minutes is not on the coaches and that was the game right there. It was 10-6 before that and a close game. You can just see the players giving up and that is SICKENING.
JONES
Anonymous JONES said...
Well Gary, when you understand that there is no playoffs with this core...the coaches did what they could yesterday, it's up to the players to come out and make it happen.
>>>>
You make no sense. You claim we have no talent and then ignore the total lack of creativity on both sides of the ball.
If this coaching staff thinks we have shit for talent, wouldn't you think they would instead design other things to compensate? You know... no huddle, trick plays, flea flickers, wild cat, etc. What you are suggesting is that this coaching staff is even MORE clueless.
It at least seems to me they think they have superior talent on both sides of the ball and there doesn't need to be any creativity. Your suggestion is that the coaches are simply insane.
>>>>
Anonymous JONES said...
The players seemed a little disinterested again yesterday.
>>>>
Uhh, you don't think that comes to COACHING?? You are nuts.
Say what you want about Hue, but I never got the sense of any of the players quitting. Not even one game.
If the players are quitting this early in the season, I don't see how this bodes well for the future.
Gary says he would die for 8-8...short sighted, that is the peak for this core, that is their pinnacle. I can see this team has no championship heart, no idea how to play balls out, Sunday after Sunday. So what does it matter, they aren't good enough, no water into wine, no miracles, just replacements....this team should be torn apart at years end and clean out the quitters cause you can't win with them, you just can't, won't do it, can't do it. Clean out that dressing room of all smell, get rid of any hint of what was, of this core.
JONES
JONES
nyraider said...
Based on the comments above, I don't think I saw the same game some of you watched.
>>>>>
I am watching the same games as you are. This coaching staff is a curiosity at best. Allen seems to have the conservatism of Gruden but none of the intensity (not challenging that third down mark was the turning point of the game Sunday.) Knapp seems as clueless as he was last time around. And Whats up with Tarver... I remarked in the second half... hasn't he heard that its ok to FAKE blitz in the NFL??? Every time we loaded up the line to blitz, we blitzed, Manning made the halftime adjustments and audibled out of it every time. A fake blitz would have left him vulnerable.
This is football 101.
Three out of four games we got outcoached on both sides of the ball, and I am the one that is HAPPY to be under achieving.
FWIW.. our STs coach is really coming around. The coverage has been outstanding compared to early season and especially pre-season.
Its probably the only thing Allen doesn't have his hands on.
Anonymous JONES said...
Clean out that dressing room of all smell, get rid of any hint of what was, of this core.
>>>>>
You blame the players for quitting but not the coaches (even though none of them quit last year).
I actually hope you are right... because cleaning out the locker room is exactly what McDaniels tried to do in Denver, and his team STILL STUNK.
The fish rots from the head.
Jones - I didn't see the game until after a couple possessions (pre-empted by early games on the east coast), so I didn't see the aggressiveness you mention.
What I saw was pretty unmistakable. When the Raiders did blitz, they were in soft coverage. Of course Manning can find an outlet in soft coverage.
I saw McClain playing so far back, ala Chuck Bresnahan, by the time he got to the ball it was already a big play.
Manning threw underneath all day. The Raiders never really countered it by playing their LBs closer to the line.
On offense, the Raiders made no apparent adjustments to counter the Broncos pressure, which was intense. Like in other games, they were forced to abandon the run, mostly because it didn't work in ZBS.
Why didn't Knapp call screens (i.e., ones that actually went past the blitzing players), and why didn't he have Palmer roll out?
These are not issues the players have control over.
Gary has no memory..I do, how bout the very last game of last year, you know, all they needed was a win at home vs the 7-8 Dolts. And what happened? Did they even show up! That was another pathetic display by this core, maybe they aren't qutting, but, in most of their games from the 1/2 way point of last year to today, this core has been awful.
2 completely seperate circumstances but same results and pattern. Logic will tell you that these players are not good enough...you make out like the St Huey era was the best the Raiders could ever hope for...talk about accepting shit as gold.
JONES
THE "HEAD" is only a few games old...the body has been stinking up the joint for a while. But go ahead, defend a bunch of quitters in the name of keeping the "Mr.Davis/ St Huey had this team on the cusp of greatness" delusion, I won't.
JONES
To be clear, I am not calling for anyone's head (well, maybe Knapp's). But I believe I am seeing obvious mistakes by a rookie coaching staff who, by fair accounts, could do better with a better roster.
Before roster changes that actually matter can happen (so far moves effect only the bottom of the roster), I'm looking for the coaches themselves to improve.
From where I'm sitting, there's plenty of room for improvement.
The abandoned the run because they were down 25 points in a 6 min span of the 3rd Qrtr.
When you are blitzing and there is still no pass rush and your backfield is weak, if you are playing tight....they will score a quick 6, HELLO. Do you know anything about the game? You play your LB's tight and it makes for easy plays down the seams over the middle. When your D-line can't pressure the QB and the blitzes are being picked up and burned. When your DB's are weak, WTF would you do? Answer the question, if you are going to blame the coaching, then tell us what they could have done to stop Manning. Would love to hear it.
With no threats at WR or TE, the Defense of Denver could spy the RB and take away the screen. Behind 25 points, you can't win by dumping screens every 2nd or 3rd play, you have to try and get the ball downfield...which leads us to more dropped balls, more poor blocking and overall poor play in WR area. They took McFadden out of the game and got a big lead and came after Palmer hard. Players quit and that's it.
JONES
I watched the game. Thought the Raiders played hard, but just were frustrated.
They couldn't get pressure on Manning. Couldn't stop the short passes. Couldn't stop the run.
On offense, the Raiders don't have much going.
Seems to me all you have to do is keep Moore from beating you deep, and bottle up McFad.
After that it's just a few dump offs to Reece, Goodson, and Meyers.
A few short passes to Criner, and Streader. Defense isn't losing any sleep over that.
I still think Raiders will win 7 or 8 games.
Like last year, they will get blown out a few times as well.
That's just who they are right now.
Doesn't matter what system they play in.
Raider00, probably the closest, exactly, to my summation of the game. It's the plain truth folks.
...anyone wanna talk about Atlanta?
Anonymous JONES said...
Gary has no memory..I do, how bout the very last game of last year, you know, all they needed was a win at home vs the 7-8 Dolts. And what happened? Did they even show up!
>>>>
You are entitled to your own opinions, but are not entitled to your own facts... they were STILL IN THE GAME and driving until Ford ran the wrong route and CP threw the interception. A TD would have put us down by 5 with time still on the clock. That was far from the blowouts we have to get used to this year (apparently.)
We scored 26 points that game. That's "Showing up" by anyone that knows even rudimentary NFL knowledge.
I bet the Neo-Knapp offense doesn't touch 26 points more than one more time this year.
We were AVERAGING 26.6 points a game with McFadden last year Bubs.
We will be lucky to average 14 with him this year. SAME PLAYERS... better QB.
Answer the question, if you are going to blame the coaching, then tell us what they could have done to stop Manning. Would love to hear it.
>>>>
Same thing that the two teams that previously beat him did. Disguise the defense pre-snap... throw tons of stunts and mis-directions at him... blits or fake blitz him. Keep him guessing EVERY PLAY.
I'm wondering if Allen even bothered looking at the tape from the two teams that just made Manning look average. One wouldn't guess so by looking at our insipid game-plan. Rob Ryan wasn't this predictable. Ok.. that's not true..
...looking forward to Atlanta... Could be a great game. There. I said it.
Jones - the deficiencies I have identified are touched on by Dennis Allen in his post game press conference, which he starts off by saying the Raiders were "out-coached." He recognizes the lack of proper coverage during blitzes.
These things were painfully obvious during the game... and they are a reflection of poor coaching every bit as much as breakdowns by players.
As for abandoning the run due to rash of Bronco scores in the 3rd Qtr, it was obvious we couldn't run against the Broncos long before the half.
ZBS sucks!. Knapp has had the entire offseason, training camp and preseason to get this right. He has implemented the scheme for eight games (4 preseason and 4 regular season), and it's not even close to working.
McFadden and his blockers look completely lost in this system.
When will it be time to pull the plug on ZBS?
Are we to just write-off this season and wait for the Raiders turn over the entire roster?
Or perhaps we can salvage the season and play to the strengths of our current roster, while implementing long-term adjustments as they can be appropriately supported and/or complemented by new personnel.
...Atlanta will be telling, having two weeks to try to become more of a formidable opponent, in both strategy, and scoring.
IMO, the real test for this coaching staff (and organization) is whether they become so married to one way of doing things that they continue to fail without implementing change.
Dennis Allen had a somber yet inspiring PC today (Raiders.com) at which he stated they would spend the bye week evaluating "everything," including coaching and scheme. "Everybody has to improve."
"Disguise the defense pre-snap... throw tons of stunts and mis-directions at him... blits or fake blitz him. Keep him guessing EVERY PLAY."
**********************************
I agree Gary. This is really the only chance Raiders defense has.
We have to admit the truth finally,
OUR FRONT SEVEN SUCKS !!!!!!!
It doesn't generate any pass rush.
The best our D has been in recent years was with John Marshall as DC.
And he did pretty much what Gary is suggesting.
Trouble with Marshall was he used complex D one game, it worked great, but the next game it was all predictable, vanilla, no blitz, boring ass defense.
We need a entire new D-line, and L-backers.
Bottom line, coaches will be staying, players will be leaving. So all the rest doesn't really mean NADA. I for one will not be sad to see the core of this team gone.
JONES
When you are unable to disguise coverages and create adequate pressure vs. Manning, it is a slow water torture.
Is our defensive front 4 really this bad? Or it more a product of a HOF QB exploiting a suspect secondary?
A lot more questions and growing pains is sure to follow. The transition into a competitive, playoff caliber team is going to be difficult and require more hard work, adjustments, an infusion of talent, time, patience, and faith. Am I missing anything.
For all the fans ready to blow up Allen after 4 games, get a clue. The way he has conducted himself in these trying times has been as 1st class leader. He isn't shrinking, making excuses, throwing the team under the bus. He knew this season was going to be very difficult.
For all the fans ready to blow up Allen after 4 games, get a clue. The way he has conducted himself in these trying times has been as 1st class leader. He isn't shrinking, making excuses, throwing the team under the bus. He knew this season was going to be very difficult.
>>>>
I, for one, am in no shape or form ready to give up on Allen. He deserves three years to prove himself same as any HC in the NFL.
That's why I am pissed off about Hue being fired.
This might have been his year... despite all his control freak garbage.. he had the offense playing well last year.
Now look at it. We reap what we sow.
No way I am in favor of the HC carousel continuing though. If Knapp is dead last in rushing at the end of the year (which i COMPLETELY expect) if he isn't jettisoned by Allen or St. McK... this is one fucked up organization.
I see no hope at all.
We need a entire new D-line, and L-backers.
>>>>
I am in a minority in believing our line isn't horrible. They are just asked to do to much.. and with so little creativity, they are facing constant double teams.
The LB's are a grease fire except for Wheeler.
The secondary is a grease fire except for Branch.
Those are the only two players in the back 7 that would be starting for any other team IMO.
I think all of the front four would be starters on most other teams.
Huff should be playing nickle back and nothing more. The rest should be out of the NFL.
The offense was supposed to carry this team. Like it did last year.
What happened??
I'm not totally giving up hope, but this doesn't look like even an 8 win team.
I was afraid of facing Manning playing a soft zone and that's what happened. He carved them up. M2M and pressure is the way to beat him and Raiders had neither.
The defensive line's lack of pass rush is most disappointing, along with McClain's play. Pray that Andre Carter will be the answer.
Can't blame the CBs because of the injuries, but can blame the management for not acquiring better talent there and letting go of the talent they had.
I agree that coaching is all-around bad right now. I agree that the coaching staff should have challenged that bad spot on the opening drive of the 2nd half. WTF were they thinking?
ZBS is not working - it turned what many think is the best back in the NFL into a 3 yards-per-carry journeyman. And they just released a promising, young power tackle in Joe Barksdale so it appears they're all in with the ZBS.
I'll eat my words if Knapp turns this around, but don't see it. He's never impressed before. Don't know why they didn't hire a fresh face.
D coordinator can't create a scheme to get to the QB, so that's a fail. Hope he sees that McClain's not the answer and gets something for him while he can (or before he goes to jail). I'd rather crash and burn playing bump & run and some blitzing than get carved up in a soft zone that looks like a practice session for the opposing QB.
And we continue to see poor special teams - still not sure how you don't have a decent back-up long snapper? Another blocked punt, but I guess I should be happy that they weren't fooled on the fake field goal......wooohoo!
Small victories.
From back to back 8-8 seasons where we miss out on the playoffs by a tie breaker to a 3-year rebuilding project? You've got to be kidding me Blanda-you-don't-rock!
"I'd rather crash and burn playing bump & run and some blitzing than get carved up in a soft zone that looks like a practice session for the opposing QB."
Thank you. That's exactly right, and yet it was so painfully obvious.
What happened to being "multiple?"
three years.
From back to back 8-8 seasons where we miss out on the playoffs by a tie breaker to a 3-year rebuilding project? You've got to be kidding me Blanda-you-don't-rock!
>>>>>'
That's the hardest thing for me to swallow. We are right back to where we were with JaMarcus three years ago... after needing just some tweaking of the defense and penalty control.
Mark Davis said he is patient, and there is nothing I have seen yet from Allen that suggests he will dump his boi Knapp... so lets just get used to 4 win seasons I guess.
That's the plan!
Hope Mark Davis gets used to near empty stadiums for a few years... this dog aint gonna hunt.
...perhaps empty stadiums are what it will take. If the product is junk, only the junkies will keep it in business. Right? I think we both know that would have happened a long time ago, when the Commitment to Excellence left town.
Time to get back, but there is no magic pill, peeps. We are back in the gym, losing flab. We are nowhere close to very good, as a team. Yet.
Hold fast.
Atlanta is the next step.
Go Oak.
...did I mention that take is all out of tissues?
...."That's the hardest thing for me to swallow. We are right back to where we were with JaMarcus three years ago... after needing just some tweaking of the defense and penalty control."....
Tweaking of the Defense? You told me I can't make up facts...how bout living by your own word? And penalty control, like under St. Huey? When they set the alltime record? And pigs can fly, right? They were 1-4 in the last 5 games and blew the last game at home when Huey declared in his last PC, that the players were a bunch of dogs. Remember?
You guys make out like 8-8 is so close to SUPER BOWL VICTORY. They reached their peak and it wasn't much. All we needed was St. Huey, who LOST THE TEAM (what else is new with this team?) All the Defense needed was to climb 20 SPOTS ON THE TOP DEFENSE category by a few tweaks? And the Offense was just unstoppable all year long because it was ranked 9th according to a bunch of stats thrown together. All the Raiders had to do was talk nice to the genius, St.Huey, and the Raiders would be 4-0 right now?
I watched the game again last night. These players are dogging it, McClain is a disgrace, Seymour looks like he has no legs, Kelly is gassed after the 1st Qrtr. Branch is playing like he doesn't know what the hell he is doing. Giardano is a 3rd stringer on any other team. Huff, avg at best. They aren't the best to begin with, and then they dog it on top of that. Has anyone ever seen a Safety stop his coverage in the endzone, lets his man go free for the TD, while he sat down on the other side of the endzone because he felt a cramp? McClain looks like Gomer freakin Pyle out there. Houston wasn't doing anything either. The D-lineman won't even put up their hands when they are 5 yards away from the QB, where is the effort? How many times did Manning have a wide open area in front of him, the DT's peeling off and leaving massive throwing lanes?...Who in the freak can cover when the QB has wide open viewing and passing lanes? A Hall of Fame QB at that. Freakin horrible. Defense couldn't make a play if their lives depended on it. The Offense sits and watches, gets no timing to the game, have to come from way behind AGAIN.
In Allen's PC, he said that "these are the players we have and they have to play up to NFL standards". Up to NFL standards, so what he is saying is, these guys are not playing up to NFL standards. Is that from the coaching? Or is it they are not putting in the effort or they just don't have what it takes? I know, I KNOW, they went 8-8 2 years in a row and were on the cusp of greatness.....IN YOUR DREAMS...I fell for it too, I thought these players were good enough, that they would be inspired, full of passion....look at these guys, dogging it all over the field, that is sickening.
JONES
gotta clean house jones. that's what's gotta happen. gotta clear out al's guys and bring in reggie's own guys. and it's gonna take a while folks.
look across the bay at the whiners. they turned it around in a year. the difference there is, they already HAD the talent. here, we clearly DO NOT!
in one video, i heard seymour talking about "we're close, attention to detail, discipline, not letting one game define them and that it's fixable, not blaming others but look in the mirror, etc"
WHAT? how many times have we heard this very same stuff come out of these players mouths for SO MANY YEARS?
gotta clean house man! even if it means getting rid of (via trade) their best player(s) to get that high draft pick reggie covets then DO IT MAN! gotta bring the pain because while it'll hurt now, we know that this GM comes from a winning program. he knows what it takes to build a successful program. and speaking of "hurt", gotta do something with DMac before he gets hurt - again!
you'll all disagree with me and blowing it all up but something's gotta be done because like jones said, the coaching staff isn't going anywhere! i think the rebuilding will hurt less when you have a young and/or inexperienced team losing rather than a bunch of very highly paid players who can't play a full 60 minutes, and lose.
I agree the players are underachievers. It's been that way for 10 years.
Philip Wheeler is the best defender we have, courtesy of Reggie. Otherwise, the front seven is marginal at best. McClain is a huge disappointment, and makes essentially the same stupid reads week after week.
For all my chest beating about the early coaching results, I agree with many of the roster concerns expressed here.
However, I remain impressed by McKenzie and Allen. Long-term, I really believe these guys will figure it out... even if it requires replacing Knapp and/or other assistants.
"Is our defensive front 4 really this bad?"
******************************************
"I am in a minority in believing our line isn't horrible.They are just asked to do to much"
*****************************************
Calico. Yes, the front 4 is really this bad.
Gary. I don't know what you mean.
A D-linemans job is to, stop the run, and rush the passer.
Ours do neither.
Is this asking too much of them ?
Bottomline is, Seymour is aging, and never was worth a #1 pick.
Tommy Kelly is way overrated. Makes a couple of nice plays, but is invisible for the most part.
Houston, & Shaunassy try hard but just aren't that talented.
What more proof do we need ?
We sit here evry season and say the same things.
Can't stop the run. Can't get no pressure on the QB.
The only hope is a heavy dose of blitzing. But that would leave the banged up secondary exposed.
But better to try something.
the key here raider00 is the front 4. if they can't pressure the qb, it's over for the guys in back. if they got a bunch of sacks by now, we wouldn't be discussing the defensive backfield. it all starts up front...
That's why the front 4 needs help. Tarver should be blitzing LBs and DBs, and, while doing so, play press coverage.
If you watched the game last night, you watched two defenses that get it... ironically, one is coached by Rob Ryan. SOB had his defenders disguising blitzes by stacking the LOS; then sometimes bringing it, and other times droping back. Raiders did none of that Sunday.
The Bears defense is, well, Da Bears. Bears D was the difference in the game.
I'm not a big stats guy, but these two stats really hit home:
- The Raiders are last (32nd) in the league in rushing at an average of 60.8 yards per game. They were seventh last season and second in 2010.
– The Raiders lost the first game coming off a bye each of the past nine seasons. They lost those games by an average of 14 points
Courtesy of Jerry Mac
It's simple folks ... if your front 4 can't create adequate QB pressure, then you need to bring at least 1 more defender in to blitz.
The pass rush and coverage go hand in hand. I don't care if you've got probowl corners -- if the QB has time to survey the field and pick and choose between his 1st read, 2nd read, and 3rd read, you've got 0 chance.
Bottom Line: Any 1 of 7 defenders not including the front 4 should be an option for blitz purposes.
The notion that if you have 6 instead of 7 defenders in coverage, than you are exposing the secondary is complete hogwash.
..amazing thing happens when you have a little faith. Look at Tebow... awful mechanics, just awful, but an incredible will to win. I am sure that many of you would be happy to have a slash right now, because if something happens to Carson Palmer, Take will need to get with the graphics department for a Clown Truck. Arrrggghhh!!!! GO OAK, one scurvey game at a time.
BTW Take, kudos for fueling up the Clown Coupe, but keepin' 'er garaged... that sums it up. The circus was there because, well, manning was never touched. Not one touch! Why? We were to busy scrambling around, only to see a handoff. So, we were made to look like clowns, but we were stuck with some mighty floppy shoes. We tripped.
Jones... nobody is trying to pretend there is much talent on defense. We didn't have anything last year either, but hung into games because of the offense.
The point is and shall always be there was absolutely no reason to mess with the offense besides personal ego's across the board.
St. McK didn't want to deal with the brash Hue, so he brought in HIS GUY that knows nothing about offense.
Right off the bat we are now left with our dick in our hands.
So did he bring in someone that is similar to Hue in scheme, style, and familiarity? NOOOO.. he brought in HIS GUY that was diametrically opposed to Hue in scheme, style, and familiarity. An ultra-conservative ZBS coach that failed miserably last time he was here.
None of this had to happen.
That is the point you keep ignoring.
Lotsa teams get by with crappy defenses... IIRC, both NE AND GB were at the bottom of the league last year.
Nobody but an abject fool (or more accurately, an complete moron) messes with a well tuned offense though... and that is what we are dealing with, and you keep ignoring.
My point with all of our four starters on the line being starters for most other teams is valid, I think. Watch the game closely and see how many double teams Seymour and Kelly deal with. That is what most DC's WANT... because that opens up lanes for blitzing.
For some reason this isn't something our new coaching staff is interested in exploiting.
Allen seems to be completely over his head in everything right now... and understandably so... and Tarver is getting his feet wet also as a greenhorn newbie.
This really shouldn't be a surprise to anyone we suck so horribly I guess.
Wonderful for us fans, huh?
"We wanted to play fast today," Manning said. "We wanted to run some of their defensive players and I thought we executed that plan well."
Now why would they want to run the players? They can't keep up? As George Atkinson said.."soft".
Gary, how can the Offense try and overcome the Defense with very little T.O.P.? The Defense is out there all game, giving up long/time consuming drives, unable to make a play to get off the field. So the Offense waits...and waits and watches the other team put up some more points. Now the Offense becomes one dimensional, RG RT can't pass block = very hard to win in the NFL.
The worst signing so far has to be Briesel/RG, he is brutal. McFadden is horrible at picking up the blitz, he whiffed many a block on Sunday. He seems to be lacking in effort, maybe he is sulking? Pulling a Randy Moss? Saw a few plays on Sunday that he could of made more yrds than he did. Maybe he is playing hurt?
The effort given on Sunday was very close to what they gave in Miami. If they aren't willing to give it 100%, then there is no hope, except for the 8-8, the "cusp of greatness" illusion. That is the pinnacle this core can reach and if that's the best they can do, then it isn't good enough. Get some talent, players that can play the schemes and can play with heart for 60 minutes /for 16+ games and lets move forward.
JONES
Gary, how can the Offense try and overcome the Defense with very little T.O.P.?
>>>>
The same way they did it last year, Jones.
And I cannot believe anyone would blame the PLAYERS for lack of effort when its nearly the same crew back from last year, and nobody noticed it then. Please Jones... use your noggin.
Think about it... there hasn't been a SINGLE thing that has happened since McK took over that has put team before themselves.
McKensie didn't want to put up with Hue's ego so he brought in a greenhorn, putting HIMSELF before team (ignoring that Hue had the offense humming and the full support of the players).
Allen didn't want a hotshot OC so he brought in the only dunce he had a relationship with... putting HIMSELF in front of team.
Knapp doesn't want CP calling his own plays because then he wouldn't have anything to do besides sit in a corner sucking his thumb with a dunce hat on... thus putting HIMSELF over team.
I have not seen one thing done this year that puts team over management... could you name even one thing please?
And you wonder why the TEAM is quitting in two out of four games right out of the chute...
I have not seen one thing done this year that puts team over management...
>>>>
I take that back... Knapp let CP run the no-huddle for one game (after the entire Raider Nation was crying for it) and we won one game.
The next week he quickly gave us all the finger so he could call all his own plays and score a whopping 6 points.
I saw that someone from Miami came out and apologized for the team being 1-3 (Ironically blowing out the Raiders though).
Has any of these ego-maniacs in management done anything besides say "we are looking into it?"
"And I cannot believe anyone would blame the PLAYERS for lack of effort when its nearly the same crew back from last year, and nobody noticed it then"....
Back to this, are we? I saw a team quit and went 1-4 in their last 5 games. They had the final game at home with a Charger team, who were there for the taking. When 9-7 could have won the division...stop making up 'facts'. Any player or team that quits...ain't good enough, can't win with them, can't do it, won't do it.
JONES
...."McKensie didn't want to put up with Hue's ego so he brought in a greenhorn, putting HIMSELF before team (ignoring that Hue had the offense humming and the full support of the players)."....
Gary, when are going to "stop pounding your little fists on the pavement" about St. Huey? That ship sailed it's course, it's gone, stop whining about it. Your selective memory doesn't change the FACTS that Huey lost the team and they quit on him. Not just that, but Huey let the team record, a record in penalties, and you blame McKenzie for wanting something different? For the players to quit in "2 out of 4 games", that is a direct reflection of what the players are, 2 games into the new regime and they quit? And you think it's perfectly understandable? Ok Gary, there ain't no arguing with someone who "makes his own facts" = you.
JONES
Back to this, are we? I saw a team quit and went 1-4 in their last 5 games. They had the final game at home with a Charger team, who were there for the taking. When 9-7 could have won the division...stop making up 'facts'. Any player or team that quits...ain't good enough, can't win with them, can't do it, won't do it.
>>>>
Well I guess we have to agree to disagree then. I don't remember the team quitting last year because I saw Carson Palmer lead two drives at the end of the game that ended with Ford running the wrong route.
The other two games before that were a win and the last second loss in Detroit. Hard for me to envision any football fan calling that "quitting."
The Miami, and GB got out of hand... similar to this years Mia, and Den game.
FWIW.. I don't think the team quit this year either... that's just something you are making up. And it actually terrifies me to think you might be right. Good gawd.. do you even realize the ramifications of this suggestion?
This franchise is FUCKED if true. I don't see anyone else making this suggestion... thank goodness.
Ok Gary, there ain't no arguing with someone who "makes his own facts" = you.
>>>>>
The rubber/glue argument? Ok, I am done.
Actually, McKenzie wanted Hue to stay as OC, but Hue didn't want the demotion, so McKenzie cut him loose.
I wanted Hue to stay, but I understand why he wasn't (based on going 1-4 the last 5 games). We were 7-4 and had the division locked, until we fell apart.
And it wasn't the offense that fell apart, it was our defense, doing what they do best; getting burned on the run by over-pursuing the gaps, no pressure, and doing nothing but shoulder tackles.
This year, both sides have fallen apart. I truly think it is the ZBS. McFadden needs a visible hole to run through, you don't get that with ZBS, all your runs have to be on the outside of the tackle in a ZBS, so the opposing team stacks the outside. Power block is for running teams, ZBS is more for the passing game to help against the blitz. This is why we need a balance of the two, not one exclusively. Knapp is shooting the offense in the foot by doing this.
I knew the Defense was going to need help, I thought Allen would bring that help. So far, we are seeing the same mistakes as the last 3 years. I will blame the players for that, because our problem is with the D-line's lack of pressure, the LBs overshooting their run gaps, and the DBs trying to shoulder tackle people instead of wrapping them up or taking the wrong angles for a tackle.
I'm extremely disappointed with the Raiders. I don't think it gets better until we drop the ZBS in the running game. Keep it for passing, but power block for the running and for God's sake, mix in a screen pass!
JUST WIN, BABY!
The franchise is "f....." if true? I think it means that the McClain's of the team have to be washed away. I watched the game again last night, before I go to sleep.
I saw Branch messing up all over the field in the 1st half. I saw McClain and Huff run into each other in one of the crossing routes, leaving the Donkey wide open for a big gain. I saw McClain utterly clueless and without any desire to be a PLAYER. I saw Huff, McClain, Branch, screwing up time after time. If you watch the Defense, they were giving different looks, they were using press and blitzes, Manning was picking them apart and not one Raider could do a thing about it, the players were not executing.
Offense was moving the ball, they are 13th ranked in passing, last in rushing. The rushing attempts, the Raiders have the fewest attempts in the league, far below the league avg. of attempts. So what does this tell you? The Raiders have been behind, they have to go to heavy passing to try to catch up or just to keep up. Then the O has to watch as the Defense cannot get off the field because they can't make a stop.
1st half, Branch got burned on at least 3-4 3rd down plays to extend their drives. And this is the 'franchise' player, yikes. Their TE would do a slant and Branch would be right there and not able to do a damn thing about it, taking bad angles and allowing himself unable to make a play.
Huff, missing assignments, tackles and looking totally out of any clue. Him and Branch playing on the same side of the field, Manning was torching them over and over.
McClain, DT's are getting DBLD and McClain can't see the RB who just ran by him. Horrible in coverage, Manning was toying with him throughout the game.
These 3 are supposed to be the strength of the Defense. It's horrible to watch them, they must be getting totally embarrassed in the meetings. I saw Defenses being called that could work, IF, the talent and desire was there, it isn't and Manning made that perfectly clear.
JONES
McFadden doesn't seem to EVER want to cutback, he wants to out run the end. He doesn't want to cutback for fear of getting hurt? That's what I thought I was seeing last night. ZB creates cutback running, McFadden doesn't seem to want any part of it. 2 or 3 times I saw him just running wide, trying to out run the D, if he would have cut back, there was no one there or maybe one guy he could shake.
If you watch other teams who use ZB, the RB is always looking to cut back against the flow of the play, haven't seen this from McFadden at all. He seemed to go down easy in traffic as well. He is not running hard and his 'picking up the blitz' is pathetic too, Palmer got up after being slammed to the turf and yelled at McFadden for missing the block, he saw that too many times last Sunday.
The Raiders did throw some screens, Donkies knew it was coming, every time. Right side of the O-line is a mess, no one other than Moore at WR, Myers blew many blocks, most of all on the blocked punt that gave them an easy 7. These guys are supposed to be the leaders, the strength of the team. They way they are playing, is it any wonder how bad it is?
JONES
...if the Oak locker room read much of this psycho-babble, they'd probably say "they just don't get it, because they're not in here", and I'd have to agree.
OakTown, who "gets" it more? The players saying the same old things, how it's different this year, this time, with this coach; how they just need to mind their gaps, how they just need to stop beating themselves, how they are about to turn a corner, year after year after year after every year starting with Norv Turner's time.
Or the fans here who call "BS" on the whole charade? Who was right about it five years ago, or three years go or today? The guys in the locker room saying it, or the fans who, seeing another losing season in progress, call BS on it?
It may sound like there's psychobabble here, but it's no worse that what's been coming out of the locker room for ages.
This just in....Knapp says running game is "coming around" after performance at Denver.
WTF! I liked it better when Al didn't let the assistants talk to the press.
Jones - good point on the ZBS and needing to be a cutback runner. Maybe that's just not McFadden's style. We'll see as the season drags on.
If you watch other teams who use ZB, the RB is always looking to cut back against the flow of the play, haven't seen this from McFadden at all.
>>>
He struggled last time with this offense under Knapp.
This is a surprise to you?
First time in NFL history that anyone blew up a top 10 offense to go back to a 29th ranked offensive coordinator.
And we are supposed to believe everything is going to be fixed?
This year, both sides have fallen apart. I truly think it is the ZBS. McFadden needs a visible hole to run through, you don't get that with ZBS, all your runs have to be on the outside of the tackle in a ZBS, so the opposing team stacks the outside.
>>>>
Not to mention the ZBS has to be COUNTERED with an opposite reaction to keep teams from simply flooding the field in the direction of the play.
How many times did a Shanny-run team burn us with the QB bootleg over the years?
WHERE THE FUCK IS THE QB BOOTLEG???
Knapp doesn't know what he is doing.
JFC... and how many more years do we have to watch him demonstrate he doesn't know what he is doing?
I am guessing at least TWO...
Or until Allen gets fired.
"Maybe that's just not McFadden's style"...if he was a great runner, he could play any style. 1dimensional, unwilling or unable? If it is unwilling, then I see that going back to the last half of last year with a lot of the players. Players are needed that will do whatever it takes, not his style, if that is the case, this team is screwed. Maybe it isn't Kelly's style to be able to put in a lot of plays during a game. Or McClain's style to read a hole or coverage. Maybe they need to try their style somewhere else?
JONES
"1 dimensional, unwilling or unable"
A good plan is one that works. If ZBS is not working, it's time to try something that does.
McFadden is a proven NFL RB. I wouldn't label him one dimensional as much as I would the system he's currently stuck in.
A good plan is to get players that will do well in what the HC knows and wants as his team. The mix is very unstable at the moment. It's going to be the coaches staying and the players leaving. How many times in history have we seen an Owner who was all encompassing of the Org for 50 years, pass and leave a team of overpaid stiffs for those trying to set a whole 'new' way for playing the game? These players obviously grew very comfortable in the contry club called the Oakland Raiders. If McFadden is unwilling or unable to adapt, McClain, Branch, Huff, Kelly, Seymour etc....once again, the coach is staying and the players are going to be leaving.
Mr.Davis brought in his players, players who play one way and like to take plays off once and a while. I agree with Balanda in this, that it was built with his type of player. Pointed out earlier was that these players, when going to another team, are hardly ever seen again as a core player on another team.
So Allen gets thrown in with this type of player that can't or won't play the way they are needed. Again, should the Raiders change up everything they have done, starting from DAY 1, or should the HC give in to what the players MAY want for a possible 8-8 season? A good plan is one that will start the process now, that will benefit down the road. Seeing who can adapt and who can't.
I think the plan goes beyond this season, because almost all the players in the core won't be part of that plan. I would bet that this has already been identified by GM/HC.
JONES
I always thought one of the primary criticisms by folks here was that the previous regime only did things one way. The notion that a new regime would come in and be "multiple" was exciting to most of us.
Also, many here, myself included, applauded Hue Jackson for recognizing and playing to the strengths of his offensive players (we know he did not have that latitude on D). Jackson singled out McFadden and exploited his strengths. (Jackson gave us a 59-14 victory over the Broncos, with essentially the same personnel, which the current coaching flipped into a 34-6 loss.)
So I guess I don't understand the position that we must now stick to a singular approach – that has proven its failure through eight games (4 preseason 4 regular season) – in hopes that we might find the right players next year or the year after to successfully run this system.
That sounds as futile as anything we’ve tried in the last ten years. What if that approach doesn’t work?
A successful organization will be constantly adapting, starting with maximally utilizing the resources that are available.
It’s the coaches job to find a way to win now, and that plan doesn't have to compromise the future. I’m confident Dennis Allen would agree. We all know major changes will be made to the roster.
So you advocate that the Org does a complete shift in what they believe in because the current core players went 8-8 in the last system? What have they practised since DAY 1? The new regime came in with what they wanted to do, they recognize the talent level is poor. But you want them to scrap it all, go back to what St.Huey was doing to reach the pinnacle 8-8, and then what next year? Start the process over and evaluate again? Or just keep playing Huey's system until this core is old and grey and then start what they want to do?
After 4 games, with plenty of injuries to an already suspect roster and you want it all scrapped? If you haven't noticed, the coaches believe in their systems, it's what they are familiar with, it's what the GM hired, it's what they have coached since DAY 1. But because the players are unable or unwilling to do it the coaches way, it should all be rearranged so a bunch of slackers can get it their way and hope that they aren't the team that went 1-4 down the stretch last year, playing it Huey's way?
Or how bout Reggie just firing all the coaches and hire Huey back, would that be about right? I don't think so. The process started from DAY 1 and it will continue, it's up to the players to show if they can do it, to save their jobs, if they can't, see ya.
JONES
"So you advocate that the Org does a complete shift in what they believe in because the current core players went 8-8 in the last system?"
Is that what you got from what I wrote? Yikes!
Why do you believe what I’m suggesting has to involve a complete abandonment of the positive direction the new regime has already taken?
Why do you feel the Raiders must take a singular approach in order for their method to be valid and credible?
So you don’t believe in being “multiple” as was suggested by this regime since Day 1?
All I’m suggesting is that the Raiders should adapt to their circumstances and maximize their resources. Other teams have pulled it off without sacrificing their future.
4:37 AM
Anonymous JONES said...
A good plan is to get players that will do well in what the HC knows and wants as his team
>>>>>>
That kind of reminds me of what McDaniels of Denver tried to do, and also Haley of KC.
"My way or the highway."
Those two set their franchises back quite a few years, although Denver might make the playoffs again.
Is that REALLY what we want in our organization?
I don't... I agree with NYR again.
I want on organization that looks at the players they have on roster and does everything they can think of to win games every year. They can tweak the players in the off-season.. but to simply throw a season away trying to pound round holes into square pegs with players that probably won't even be on the roster next year is asinine, bull-headed, and self-centered. Not to mention having such a horrible product on the field for us fans to endure. Fans come last I guess?
pound round holes into square pegs
>>>>
LOL!
Pound square pegs into round holes, of course.
NYR, how can you be multiple? This crew can't even be singular. You keep giving these players credit that they can play at a high level. They are 2-7 in their last 9 games. New regime/system and the same players are making the same mistakes. What can you do with this roster? Who are the playmakers? Who are the leaders? Who are the 'stars'? EXACTLY.
JONES
"I want on organization that looks at the players they have on roster and does everything they can think of to win games every year."....
First of all, the Org just stepped into this roster of players, almost the whole core was there, the whole system was different. The only way this would work is if the players could adapt to what the new management wanted. It doesn't look like that is going to happen, does it? Maybe the fans are going to have to accept it, aren't they? The place was a mess when they walked in the door, the talent is poor and not "NFL caliber". But you 2 want them to throw away what they know to pander to a bunch of low caliber players that won't amount to much anyways. 2-7 in the last 9, inconsistent the last 3-4 years, I think the pattern is set, show some glimpses, but fall back to same mistakes. That's what low caliber players do, they show signs but never get there. This core has been together long enough to show their history. The 'new' system just cements it.
JONES
Take, that was a good point, I guess overthinking this anticipated flop ain't such a bad thing after all. Fire cannons!
I think the two things missing in this recent debate is perspective and context.
First and foremost, is that any newly installed system takes some time to be hitting on most (not all) cylinders.
Secondly, the current roster is short on talent and depth. How do you be "multiple" when you've got a patchwork secondary? When you are playing from behind? Don't you think that when your top 3 WRs have been injured it would have an impact on the playbook?
Third, 4 games is a rather small sample size.
Fouth, in 2 of the 4 games, the Raiders offense moved the ball and played fairly well.
SD - this game was a complete aberration. Take away the long snapper disaster which changed virtually aspect of the game (offensively and defensively, field position, score, etc.)
Pitt - Is anyone suggesting that the newly installed offense wasn't humming -- to the tune of 34 points on an elite D?
I totally agree about the central points of the coaching staff (1) needing to be adaptable (2) maximizing the productivity of the current personnel (3) about being as "multiple" as possible.
No doubt we absolutely stink up the joint in half our games. The MIA and DEN games were an embarrassment from a competitive standpoint.
Adaptation is 2 ways ... the players need to adapt to the coaching staff's vision and the coaching staff needs to adapt to the personnel while keeping their primary beliefs as a foundation.
An example of that would be for the offensive coaching staff to create/install some plays that are in McFadden's wheelhouse but also expecting McFadden to adjust to the ZBS.
Through 4 games, my view is that our D (through performance, execution, injuries, talent level) has had a detrimental effect on the offense being in rhythm, balanced, and playing within the framework of a manageable game.
Calico Jack said...
I think the two things missing in this recent debate is perspective and context.
First and foremost, is that any newly installed system takes some time to be hitting on most (not all) cylinders.
>>>>>
A lot of us guys are going... BUT WHY?
Nobody in the NFL ever changes an offense completely when it is doing well... pretty much at the top of the league with a healthy Mcf.
Why?
ITS SO HARD TO ACCOMPLISH!!!
That's whats so aggravating to me... if these are the genius's we are putting in charge of the entire franchise for decades to come, why make such an incredible blunder?
This is still a business, and if we get blown out by Atl... will there be ANYONE going to Raider games this season?
JFC... this looks more like the Keystone Cops than anything else so far...
Someone just mentioned that there are Raider fans that would rather lose with McKensies players than win with Al's.
I think that is true...
Adaptation is 2 ways ... the players need to adapt to the coaching staff's vision and the coaching staff needs to adapt to the personnel while keeping their primary beliefs as a foundation.
An example of that would be for the offensive coaching staff to create/install some plays that are in McFadden's wheelhouse but also expecting McFadden to adjust to the ZBS.
>>>>
He sucked at it the first time.
He's even worse now.
Is this rocket science?
Whats the problem here? McFadden not adapting to something he obviously sucks at, or a pig-headed coaching staff not designing plays for our best player to succeed?
OUR BEST PLAYER.
He has to adapt.
What other coaching staff would change a RB that was nearly leading the league in rushing?
Gary,
You are the one that needs to have a better understanding of context.
You keep saying that "McFadden sucked at the 1st time" ... let's explore this more.
OK, so McFadden as rookie had Knapp as his OC, Cable as his HC, and JaBustus as his QB.
Gary, McFadden only e started 5 games, had a total of 113 total carries for 499 yards, a 4.4 avg., and 4 TDs.
Really Gary, he sucked at it because he hardly played? Because he avergaged 4.4 yards? Because his QB was a total loser?
Further context so you understand where I'm coming from ...
Every offensive system where Knapp has had success with the running game (ATL, HOU), the team used ZBS.
He was hired by Allen because, wait for it, Allen always believed that ZBS was the most difficult to contain.
Before you throw yourself off the ledge, understand that (1) the coaching staff believes in the ZBS (2) Knapp has been highly successful using the ZBS (3) we've only played 4 frickin' games, (4) and in spite for your rush to judgment and false perception of McFadden's rookie year, he didn't suck.
You want instant success. You believe McFadden can't succeed in the ZBS based on a few games as a rookie and a few games this season.
Do you understand that no matter what blocking scheme you are running as an offense, it doesn't add up to a hill of beans if you are playing from behind, getting crushed, have to abandon the run, and are DEAD LAST in rushing attempts?
Am I typing too fast, Gary? Context and perspective and yes patience are needed to understand both the big picture and smaller picture.
If you want to keep pounding your tiny little fists into the pavement and insisting a 4.4 YPC average "sucks" and that the context of the game situation, lack of talent, and a coaches' long term vision doesn't matter, knock yourself out killer.
I find it amusing and ironic that you are so quick to pile on after 4 games how doomed we are on, woe is me, when you patiently existed in our 9 year slumber prior to the new era.
I personally don't like to tie everything up to stats and rankings without understanding. Stats are a mere tool or barometer but without context relatively meaningless.
Does anyone in their right mind think that we would be dead last in rushing yards from scrimmage at this point in the season? No, of course not. Do you think having the fewest rushes due to playing fro behind due to a horrendous D might have a cause and effect? Yup.
Calico, you had me at 4 games pardner. That's logical.
Game plan for Atlanta: Smash Mouths.
Period.
In two years, I say only the following players will be left from current roster.
Sebass
Lechler
Valdheer
Bergstrom
Wisnewski
Moore
Pryor
Meyers
Reece
Branch
I think thats it. The rest will be gone, replaced by real football players.
I don't think the Raiders will re-sign McFad.
I think the Raiders will begin to groom a youger QB.
And I think we will see a massive overhaul of the defense.
The proof will play out for us, just like it has in the past.
If ZBS doesn't work for the Raiders, I just hope we don't have 3 years and a ZBS-tailored roster invested before we find out.
At the risk of repeating myself, I fully expect the coaches to put the best possible product on the field for us to watch every week. That seems to be consistent with Dennis Allen's theme at PCs and it's a plan that shouldn't need to sacrifice any long-term goals.
Calico... I don't remember McF averaging that many YPC that year... I stand corrected.
OTOH... what do you see that makes you think this offense is a good fit for him?
Especially in comparison to last season.
Other than that you make some good arguments... I maybe should be more patient. But damn... part of the problem is Knapps in game adjustments. Take SD fer instance... Norv stuck 8 in the box the entire first half and Knapp blindly ran McFadden right into it every time.
Or how about the last game where Den was crushing the pocket and Allen blindly let CP stand in the pocket getting killed the entire game. How about some draws or screens? How about a rolling pocket or heaven forbid a BOOTLEG that CP was so excited about when he saw the playbook?
Maybe you are right, and all of this will be corrected as the season goes on.. but judging from my memory of Knapp during his first stint with us, I am not holding my breath. He calls plays with blinders on. Like he has no cognizance of the game in front of him. Always has.
I find it amusing and ironic that you are so quick to pile on after 4 games how doomed we are on, woe is me, when you patiently existed in our 9 year slumber prior to the new era.
>>>>
I was patient because I saw many of the problems being FIXED the last two years. Now all I see is some brand new problems we have to fix.
I hate people that fix things that aren't broken. Its like in politics, if the economy is soaring, why would anyone change anything? Its hard to accomplish. Having a top ten offense is not easy.
That's what has me up in arms right now.
Maybe you are right and Knapp is the shit! We will turn this offense upside down! From 32nd in rushing to the top ten by the end of the season!
I will have to see it to believe it!
..."but judging from my memory of Knapp during his first stint with us, I am not holding my breath."...
Another history lesson for Gary. In Knapps first stint, he only called the plays for 2 games after Kiffin was fired. Cable took over after that. Before that, it was Kiffin who was calling the plays. Just like Huey called the plays and Sanders made up the gameplans, last year. This how it was run in Mr.Davis' system, the HC was the Offensive playcaller on Sunday, the OC was actually an Assistant OC. Knapp's 1st stint was, he setup the gameplans and Kiffin would call the plays on Sundays. Cable took over the playcalling because he was now the HC. Remember what you said about facts? If you are going to point the finger, make sure your ship is clean, first.
JONES
"OTOH... what do you see that makes you think this offense is a good fit for him?"
To be honest, it will be difficult to evaluate the 2012 offense as long as (if), the 2012 defense keeps performing so poorly.
It is a "chicken before the egg" quandry whereby if the Raiders fall behind quickly, lose TOP battle, and are in turn abandoning the run early, it will be tough for the running game to be effective.
On top of that, the WR corps is banged up.
To get a better feel for Knapp's offense and McFadden's effectiveness in the ZBS, it will be paramount for the Raiders to start games on the right foot.
Close, competitive, and heaven forbid, jumping out to a lead sets up an opportunity to see how this offense can perform in the newly installed offense.
Agree Gary about patience. I'm not a patient person by nature. It is tough when you realize that we are in fact a LONG ways off in terms of building a talented, deep team where the parts fit.
At the end of the day and under the current circumstances, I'm willing to give the McKenzie/Allen partnership a min. of 3 years to turn this around. I'm willing to take a step back this year if we can lay a foundation for taking positive steps in successive years.
Anonymous JONES said...
..."but judging from my memory of Knapp during his first stint with us, I am not holding my breath."...
Another history lesson for Gary. In Knapps first stint, he only called the plays for 2 games after Kiffin was fired. Cable took over after that. Before that, it was Kiffin who was calling the plays. Just like Huey called the plays and Sanders made up the gameplans, last year. This how it was run in Mr.Davis' system, the HC was the Offensive playcaller on Sunday, the OC was actually an Assistant OC. Knapp's 1st stint was, he setup the gameplans and Kiffin would call the plays on Sundays. Cable took over the playcalling because he was now the HC. Remember what you said about facts? If you are going to point the finger, make sure your ship is clean, first.
>>>>
Maybe you and CJ are right. Knapp just needs more time to make this horrendous, pathetic 32nd ranked run offense become stellar again (29th in ypc which has nothing to do with how many rushing attempts the team does.)
And he can make better game day adjustments... which is to me even MORE obvious.
The entire team is in his hands, because we all agree the defense sucks.
I'm with RT though... these excuses are getting tiring.
At the end of the day and under the current circumstances, I'm willing to give the McKenzie/Allen partnership a min. of 3 years to turn this around.
>>>>
Agreed fully.
My mantra has ALWAYS been every coach needs 3 years. I said it with Hue, I said it with Cable, I said it with Turner, I said it with Callahan.
I din't say it with Shell because he never should have been hired in the first place, and I didn't say it with Kiffen because he was obviously TRYING to get fired.
Allen deserves three years as HC.
He will probably have his butt-buddy Knapp along the whole three years (my guess) lets hope he can learn some NFL 101 the next three years...
Agree Gary about game day adjustments by Knapp (and hopefully Palmer).
It is very frustrating. What I really liked about the offense vs. Pitt. was the diversity AND balance. 9 different Raiders had at least 1 reception. The variety of bootlegs, roll-outs, screens, short-intemediate-deep passes were all utilized with the Pitt. D needed to respect the rushing attack of McFadden. There was a nice offensive flow, rhythm, and efficiency.
In this game, as we all remember, Palmer was given the latitude to use the no-huddle and audible at the line.
Yes... so it is written. THREE YEARS. sound judgment, mateys.
Arrrghtlawnta, let's eat CROWS!
From Cork - "Allen and his coaching staff are harping on the importance of turning third-down plays into first downs on offense and preventing opposing offenses from converting so many third-down plays into first downs."
Saying it doesn't make it happen. You need better personnel or a better plan. Only one of those two things can change on short notice. You might say better execution, but that appears to be moot based on consistently poor results.
To Jones, Raider00 and others who believe they are watching the Raiders in a rebuilding year.
If this is a rebuilding year, then why don’t the Raiders stop pretending it isn’t?
Based on what you guys have conveyed as a master plan, mainly to turn over the roster, all we are seeing so far are half measures on what could be done. If McFadden, Seymour and others are as good as gone, the coaches and org should stop pretending and get others some reps in the new system.
Oct 16 is the trade deadline. Trade McFadden for a draft pick(s) now, while he's healthy. Waive Seymour so we can fill his roster spot and get reps for the younger players. Promote some practice squad players. Claim talented practice squad players from other teams. Activate Terelle Pryor for games and get him some reps at QB.
I'm on board with all the above. But I’m struggling with this half-assed notion of a "bigger purpose” while watching the Raiders continue to fail with the same players you guys claim are already out the door.
So either the Raiders should game plan to win, or they should scrap the season and get guys like Seymour out and players like Pryor in.
If a master plan is in action to turn over the roster, McKenzie should be on the phone this week discussing to trade McFadden for a draft pick(s), and Seymour’s trip home this week should be his last (from Oakland).
I’ll buy into an all-out rebuilding process, but it’s got to make sense.
Calico Jack said...
Agree Gary about game day adjustments by Knapp (and hopefully Palmer).
It is very frustrating. What I really liked about the offense vs. Pitt. was the diversity AND balance. 9 different Raiders had at least 1 reception. The variety of bootlegs, roll-outs, screens, short-intemediate-deep passes were all utilized with the Pitt. D needed to respect the rushing attack of McFadden. There was a nice offensive flow, rhythm, and efficiency.
In this game, as we all remember, Palmer was given the latitude to use the no-huddle and audible at the line.
>>>>>
Thats what is so frustrating to me.. what exactly are we trying to accomplish here? It seems winning is at the bottom of the list or why would they do all the little things to beat Pitts, and then suddenly abandon them vs Denver?
Isn't Denver a more important game?
If this staff is building for the future, then I agree with NYR... let the young guys play and jetison the players you don't want to keep for the future.
Everything just seems so haphazard or ego-centered.
As a fan I don't like being confused about what is trying to be accomplished. If they view this season as nothing more than a stepping stone... just do it. I can watch Taiwan Jones, Checkwa, Pryor, etc develop... especially in blow out games. I can live with losing if the focus is the future.. I can't live with thinking this staff DOESNT KNOW WHAT THE HELL THEY ARE DOING though... and thats the main message I am receiving thus far.
It seems winning is at the bottom of the list or why would they do all the little things to beat Pitts, and then suddenly abandon them vs Denver?
>>>>>
Now watch.. they will prolly do all the little things again to beat Atl, and then go back to straight up football and get blown out by Jax.
Its almost like an evil woman fucking with my mind.
lol
I Just rewatched game with the "coaches film" which gives you views from the endzone of every play... one thing I notice on running plays with the ZBS.. it takes a long time for the plays to develop, and McF isn't good at all at seeing open lanes. There was a play in particular at the end of the first half in the end zone where I am going... WHY DIDNT HE BREAK THAT OUTSIDE??? He had one guy to beat and then end zone. Instead he broke it inside into the pile.
I think we should let someone else do most of the ZBS running (Jones?) and use McF in open spaces... swing passes, screens, or using him as a wide out. The guy has amazing hands.. he kept one drive alive catching a ball one handed behind his back!
You want it all and you want it NOW? You 2 seem to have a hard time grasping the unique situation that is. This new regime came in with just a couple of months to rearrange the Front Office, try to install a 'new' way of coaching and schemes, after 50 years of doing it Mr.Davis' way. Like Tarver said, they believe in what they are coaching, they want these guys to do well in that system. How can you hang it on the coaches that these players are slow to pick it up or unable to pick it up? In the coaches minds, they are coaching the WAY THEY KNOW, but you 2 figure they should coach the way Mr.Davis and Huey Jackson knew to get the best out of mediocre. Can't do it, won't do it.
Now NYR is screaming to dump Seymour who would be a huge cap hit, if let go. Maybe Reggie is on the phone trying to trade McFadden and other teams are trying to rape him. McFadden has a history and it's all about being hurt. Until he puts in a full season, he will not fetch full value. Then you "pound your little fists" (anonymous gary) and want Pryor to be QB? Pryor isn't ready, throwing him in now could ruin what career he may have in front of him. This is basic.
What players are there for just picking up and dumping someone else? Reggie has squeezed what he can out of the waiver wire, or haven't you noticed? There isn't a whole lot there and you can't build a team of waiver wire pick ups, can you? It's basically what is in Oakland now and we see how that goes? Do you understand that talent is a huge part of having a winning team? If it isn't there, no matter who is coaching, it isn't going to happen, this ain't a video game. The coaches can't help that they had to walk into a rusty, beat up "K car", and you 2 want it humming like a '69 Camaro with little or no parts to work with.
Try and understand the situation and the players they inherited, they aren't changing their vision of the team, it's how it has been since DAY 1. It's the coaches job to build the team in THEIR vision, not Mr.Davis' vision, not the players vision, not Huey's vision. This is the reality of the situation, it's totally unique and won't be fixed overnight. This is how it is going forward, either get on board and stop whining about how confused you are, or jump ship and see ya in a few years?
JONES
Jones - Should I be more concerned about the Raiders taking a cap hit during a rebuilding year or them getting the team heading in the right direction?
You describe the roster as mostly "dead men walking,"but you don’t want to make the moves necessary to pursue the team’s new direction. Pick a path, because they don’t both make sense.
You want to play out the season training the current roster then dump them and start the process over again with new players.
How does that make more sense than a more dynamic approach I subscribe to?
And it’s not Al Davis’ vision that I expect the Raiders to follow. It’s the NFL vision. There are 32 teams doing essentially the same thing. Sure there are many variations, but it’s a copycat league. Free agent players state all time that schemes are very similar from team to team, it’s mostly nomenclature that varies.
So far this year, the Raiders have been ineffective in disguising formations and matching pressure with appropriate coverages; plays are predictable and unimaginative, and they lack in-game adjustments.
What responsibility, if any, do you believe these issues fall on the coaching?
NYR,
The notion of turning over the roster in-season isn't remotely feasible.
The vast majority of roster type decisions needed to be decided before the 1st league game.
Yes, you can scour the waiver wires to add a few players.
Yes, it is possible to trade a player although it rarely happens.
Due to contracts and fielding a team, turning over the roster is a pipe dream. Furthermore, it would send a horrible message ... "we give up".
Even going forward into 2013, it is rather difficult to turnover more than 40% of the roster.
Also, clearly with the team accurately described as a 'work in progress', why would it make sense to give up on the majority of the players?
From a purely reaslitc viewpoint, the coaching staff needs to keep working tirelessly with an eye on 3 things simultaneously:
(1) winning games
(2) evaluating players - which ones will be worth keeping in 2013 (3) hammering home the techniques, schemes, execution to see steady, tangible improvements.
CJ - I think you can read into my post that I'm not suggesting the roster can be turned in a season as much as I am scoffing at the notion that it should be, as suggested by several folks here.
I'm also suggesting that if the Raiders do have a clear path that excludes specific players, then why retain those players. Let's start looking for their replacements now.
It falls under the old adage, you can’t get a little pregnant. Nor should you try. If we’re rebuilding, let's rebuild.
NYR, how do I "not want the moves made"? How many moves can the GM make in a few months and still have a roster? And from what talent pool is he supposed to pick up the new players from? Are you even thinking realistically? What you are suggesting is impossible.
This is the roster they took over, these are the systems they want in place. The players are the ones to adapt, if they can't, they are gone. Why is this so hard to understand? The coaches coach what they know and how to do it, the way these players have been coached (previous regime) and trained is far different than any other team in the NFL. But you want the coaches to continue what the players know so they can maybe reach 8-8 this year? No, it started from Day 1 and it will continue, the players will come and go, the system will remain intact.
And don't compare this system to last, it's night and day. As far as the "multiple" you crave, looks like the talent is needed for this to happen, you seem unable to grasp what is going on. The players aren't making the plays, the coaches have come out in their PC's and said the players aren't doing it. But, NYR and Anonymous Gary think it's poor coaching and the players are on the cusp of greatness. Sorry, talent is lacking and you can't coach up poor talent, just the way it is.
JONES
How in the F... can you rebuild when the draft picks were gone, salary cap is maxed and the current roster is full of duds? Where is the magical tree with all the talent to pick these "replacements"? If Reggie was to cut the core, what would be left? You aren't making any sense. Drink a beer, take a deep breath, it ain't happening over night.
JONES
NYR, as far as Seymours cap hit, if they cut him this year, the rest of his salary will dump on next years cap. Anyone with a brain would not cut over 10 mill of next years cap to cut a player tomorrow. It is another gift from Mr.Davis that you can't just send down the road without circumstances. You seem very simplistic in your idealism, maybe when you understand the situation better, you can make more informed statements? With cap limitations, top draft picks gone and a roster full of mediocre...this isn't an overnight job, so wanting it all and wanting it now is very unrealistic.
JONES
Jones - it is very simple. Coach the players to press cover when they blitz. Disguise coverages. Provide some dynamic to the offense that will exploit Darren McFadden's elite RB skill set.
These are the simple things I am asking the Raiders to do, yet you seem to believe there's a greater purpose why they are not, or will not.
I get that it will take time for the Raiders to get back to prominence, but it shouldn't take time for them to be competitive on such a simplistic level.
If it's just that simple NYR? Then go out there, tell Allen, Reggie, Tarver... you have the answers and see what you get back, they would tell you to go play Madden 13 cause you have no idea. Any of the defenders the Raiders have, would be lucky to start on most teams in the NFL. Corners, Lee and Huff, Huff looks lost, Lee can't make a play. A D-line that cannot create pressure (think Giants D-line) 2 Safeties that play like they are always a step behind. A MLB that is useless... and you want multiple and confusion? The only confusion is in the back 7. Tarver has to keep the message the same and hope the players can pick it up. Or, give up and go back to the 29th ranked Defense of Mr.Davis'? I'm sure that would really help the 'program' down the road, hey NYR?
Look at last game, Denver was put in 16 3rd down situations. That is the coaching, they are putting the Defense in a position to get off the field. BUT, just as we have seen with this Defense in previous years, they cannot make a stop on 3rd down. If you rewatch the Denver game, there were multiple Defenses and disguised coverages, it didn't matter, Manning was toying with McClain, Branch, Huff. And the more disguised the coverage was, the more Huff, Branch and McClain had no idea what to do. You blame that on the coaches? It's the same shit we saw from the core Defense last year in a much more simplistic scheme, they are UNABLE.
You seem to make out that no matter what talent is out there, that the coaches should be able to have a decent Defense by what they call. TALENT, where is the talent that makes those plays on 3rd down? Who is getting in the QB's face to create a turnover? Who is jumping on the ball to make a play? NONE OF THEM, except maybe Wheeler. All of them look like they are just trying to survive instead of looking to making a play. That is the sign of poor talent.
Competitive on a simplistic level? They are 2-7 in their last 9 games...is any of this clueing in? Or am I writing to a wall? You think it's all the coaching that is causing a 2-7 record? When does it become on the players to turn it around? When they get a lollipop after a good play? Either you are just egging me on, or you have a limited understanding. So, I am done, thanks for nothing.
JONES
Jones - I never said it was "all" on the coaches. I merely suggested the coaching is also at fault. That's something Allen seemed to embrace in his last press conference but you refuse to accept.
If you want to believe that pro football players can't be instructed to play closer to the LOS, that's up to you.
I watch every game, and I haven't seen the disguises you mention.
"x" summed it up with this statement...
"I'd rather crash and burn playing bump & run and some blitzing than get carved up in a soft zone that looks like a practice session for the opposing QB."
I suggest you rewatch the game. I also suggest that you understand that the Defense cannot be used to it's max potential because of roster problems. Last game, I saw the Raiders down 10-6 at halftime. Saw the team fall apart in EXECUTION and in a 6 minute span, had allowed 3 TD's. After that, I saw a lot of garbage time because the game was over.
If you look at that 6 minute period, you see the same old guys making the same old mistakes. I see teams taking away a reluctant McFadden, I see Palmer with limited weapons around him, an O-line that can be considered shakey. The players dropped the ball for a 6 minute span, they couldn't tackle, stop a run, falling down, getting confused or late on who to cover... and you want the coaches to make that up with genius playcalling and compensate for no playmakers, no leaders, no heart? Your expectations are unrealistic.
JONES
Disguise is COVERAGE, it isn't how they line up, so if you are watching the coverage schemes, you will see they are doing different coverages, it's just that the players aren't making it work. Slow to react, slow to pursue, taking bad angles...same old shit. I think they have shown what they are, seeing them make the same mistakes with different coaching and schemes....can only be one conclusion?
But, it's the coaches, they aren't telling the other QB to just throw it to one of the Riaders, just so he can knock it down and feel good about himself? 16 3rd downs, 16, that is good coaching, it is putting them in the position to get off the field...a player has to make a play, just like Huey said in his last PC, it was his same complaint, coincidence?
JONES
Sounds like excuse making has taken on a new form. Raiders have a good online being directed to underachieve. They talk every week about creating pressure on the opposing QB but they end up in soft zones when they blitz. They have been outscored in the 3rd qtr by like 55 to 6 , so last week's debacle wad no accident. We lack proper adjustments. Maybe you should watch the game again.
Here's an example of McF not seeing holes well this year... this was an 80 yard TD if he broke it outside. Instead he ran right into two defenders outside... Brisiel had the outside sealed off perfectly, and the CB was sealed off perfectly by Murphy.
I bet the coaches upstairs were going crazy!
http://netbinders.net/mcf.wmv
(Let me know if this doesn't work)
*two defenders INSIDE.
Jones - you make a good arguments. I know this roster needs improvement. However, I believe we are watching the maturation of a rookie coaching staff. The combination has not been good
NYR, you are watching a young coaching staff who fell into a pit of mediocre. Maybe they thought these guys were better than what they were, I know, I fell into that pit. Once (more than once) they see them wilt under pressure. See them cough on their own choking ability time and again when it's time for a 3rd down conversion or stop. When the chips are down, these players FOLD. They did it last year at 1-4 when one win would have clinched a playoff berth at 9-7.
The adjustments don't mean much at halftime when the players cannot find the cojones to play balls out from the start of the 2nd half. They come out, stupified, like they don't even want to be there. They play scared, allowing the other team to dominate them. The 6 minute meltdown had nothing to do with coaching. If you want to place it at their feet, go for it. I blame it on players who aren't able to bring it a full 60 minutes. Who start games and halves like they don't know how to play the game. The players play the game, they need to be ready. How many times have we seen it from this core? It's not anything new, this has been their history.
JONES
Fair enough, Jones. I'm very frustrated with the playcalling on both sides of the ball, but I'm also seeing the things you point out; and there's no question the current roster has a history of those issues.
Now that I know the org has the autonomy it needs to succeed, I think my tolerance for failure has lessened. I don't want to see a narrow focus or singular approach anymore. I feel like that's where we came from and what we should be leaving behind.
Last year, the Raiders released rookie CB Sterling Moore after a standout preseason. They re-signed him to the practice squad, after which the Patriots signed Moore to their 53-man roster.
Moore is now a starter for the Pats and just made a huge play to strip the ball from a Broncos WR, then recover it himself.
Pats finding big holes running the ball against the Broncos in a power blocking scheme.
I was thinking the same thing myself NYR... NE puts up 31 in their sleep vs Denvers crappy defense and we were lucky to get 6.
BTW.. I caught the end of the Miami game, and they also have a greenhorn coaching staff.. and they were doing exactly what I wished the Raiders would on defense... lining up 7 on the line and let the QB guess whether they were blitzing or dropping off the line.
I thought Allen was promising us multiple looks and to keep QB's guessing?
His defenses look as predictable as anything during the worst of the Al Davis late era.
This needs to change quickly. An over confident Atl team is a good place to start!
They are almost certainly over looking us...
I thought I was down in the dumps as a Raider fan after a decade plus of futility, but then I read THIS that lifted my spirits from a KC forum...
...quote....
I've come to expect the absolute worst out of my team. The last time they went to the Superbowl, I must have been an excitement baby, because I was born 9 months after that January victory. I've witnessed one playoff victory by the Chiefs in my entire life. I don't know what it is going to take to change the tradition of losing at Arrowhead. I wish I did. All I know is, I no longer expect greatness from my team.
...end quote....
Gary - Agreed. So far the only difference in our predictable defense is that we're playing more zone. We're not blitzing much; we're not disguising formations (as you said, by stacking the LOS); and we're playing on our heels backpedaling into the secondary.
The fact that we are so depleted in our secondary means we should be more aggressive up front so these guys don’t have to cover so long. Allen keeps telling us the defense has to “effect the QB.” How do you do that without creating pressure?
P.S. I hate to burst your moment about the Chiefs futility, but they beat the Raiders in the playoffs.
Every other team in our division lost yesterday, once again making this a wide open race.
So the question I have is, are we going to play to win, or are we going to continue to try and execute a singular approach that other teams are cramming down our throats?
The fact that we are so depleted in our secondary means we should be more aggressive up front so these guys don’t have to cover so long. Allen keeps telling us the defense has to “effect the QB.” How do you do that without creating pressure?
>>>>
One of the things I was promised that I am waiting to see. I certainly know we aren't going to accomplish it by every time we show blitz we blitz. I think everyone has figured that one out already.
>>>
P.S. I hate to burst your moment about the Chiefs futility, but they beat the Raiders in the playoffs.
>>>>>
Damn you!
That's ok though. KC fans only saw one playoff win in their lifetime? I saw that not that long ago.
Beat Atlanta.
NYR,
When you say "others" should get reps in new system, well, what "others" ?
There are no others.
This is the problem. Palmer trade, and bad contracts, set Raiders back.
Reggie had to bring back even a stripped down version of old roster.
It's not like baseball where you can bring up a bunch of players from the minors.
Only way to get new players in NFL is through draft, and free agents.
This is going to take some time. I believe only a few players will remain from current roster in 2 yrs.
Sebass, Lechler, Bergstrom, Wisnewski, Valdheer, Moore, Branch, Pryor, Meyers.
I think we will see ten new defesive players for Raiders in 2 years.
Although I believe the roster will be overhauled aggressively over the next 2 years, I think there will more worth keeping than just;
"Sebass, Lechler, Bergstrom, Wisnewski, Valdheer, Moore, Branch, Pryor, Meyers."
Some of the players that will be worth keeping are low cost who will need to show improvements to earn future roster spots. Others have the athletic talent but are at the beginning stages of their career. Some are proven performers. It is a mix.
In addition to Raider00's list above, I would add the following players as possible Raiders in 2 yrs.
Ausberry, Bryant, Burris, Condo, Criner, Houston, Moore, Parsons, Shaunnessy, Streeter, and Wheeler.
Power rankings of remaining schedule:
Atl: 4
Jags: 32
KC: 29
TB: 26
Ravens: 5
NO: 21
Cin: 16
Clev: 30
Den: 14
KC: 29
Car: 24
SD 18
They have us at 28, which is kinda not fair with Carson Palmer and McFadden. Lets pretend we are 17... granted that would mean our OC pulls his head out of his ass and lets CP go no-huddle most of the game.
There are 7 games on the schedule that should be wins... and 3 toss ups.
Two games left against the top ten... and I think the Ravens are much overrated.
Oh, and chalk NO as a loss because Drew Brees owns us and he could toss 5 TDs in his sleep vs our horrible secondary.
The only other premier QBs left are Rivers and Manning... already tossups.
Raider00 - That’s a bit out of context, but I’ll bite. In addition to free agents, “others” could also mean trades or practice squads players from our team and other teams (i.e., how we lost Sterling Moore last year). These are options you neglected to include in your list.
If the Raiders turn 85% of the roster in two years, as you suggest, the intent would seem to be to acquire players who fit our system; as opposed to tailoring a system around our core players’ strengths. I’m not saying the former is wrong, although I don’t completely agree under the present circumstances.
However, if it is to be, and we know all the players who are not on your list are as good as gone, maybe we should start the interview process now.
Of course we are still strapped by some big contracts, but some of those will have to be cut after this year anyway.
For example, Seymour restructured his deal to protect the Raiders cap for one season only. His cap hit next year is over $17M. So unless he restructures again, he's done. While dumping him for another team to pick him up on our dime doesn't make financial sense, I think you still weigh that option for the long-term betterment of the team.
All that being said, I am more in favor of tailoring our system to exploit the strengths of our core players.
For example, I'd like to see Palmer run a no-huddle offense, and power run blocking that we saw McFadden thrive in. When our QB is pressured, I'd like to bring back the screen pass, and roll outs we were told would be part of the offense but have yet to materialize.
...Atlanta.
LoL!!
"He knew this season was going to be very difficult."
Now this from the "Clown" in the car who was crying "Champs"!!!
You stupid bastards were completely wrong and now can't deal with that as usual!!!...A few of us pointed out that winning was NOT a given because you have your empowered "GM"/"HC"...That's just NOT the way "Sports Reality TV" presents itself...
So now you resort to calling those of us who were sure footed in reality of the struggles that this team faced as having "Low Expectations"...NO!!...We just weren't delusional!!
You "Clowns" riding in your sick ass make believe car were and are completely delusional!!!
I said so and noted it was just a matter of time before you punk asses threw this team under the bus again...That's just who you are!!!
"OTB"...Right'on Bro....Hold Fast The Helm!!!
PantyRaider....Al's Team Was Better -n- That You Can't Even Argue!!!!//_
"Al's Team Was Better -n- That You Can't Even Argue!!!"
8-8
8-8
5-11
5-11
4-12
2-14
4-12
5-11
4-12
Take a good, hard look at the records above. The bar was set so low that this team, the 2012 team, could easily be "better" than 7 of the previous 9 seasons.
Also, who exactly is throwing the team under the bus? Does giving Allen/McKenzie a min. of 3 years to rebuild the team sound like someone throwing the team under the bus? Yeah, right.
Come on Jack, it has been waiting for years, when it could truly say, "I TOLD YOU SO". Though, there was evidence of the 'great waste' saying the Raiders will win the West if Palmer had certain stats by the end of the year. I remember seeing a post on that other site where he plainly wrote it. Ahhh, but let him gloat, poor guy was living in denial for at least a decade. If it makes it feel better, just give it this one and we can sing kumebyya?
JONES
Jones,
No doubt I've been disappointed with the performance of the 2012 team to date.
No doubt, prior to opening day, my expectations were far too high, and yes, hind-sight is 20/20, unrealistic, etc. for the 2012 team. My bad for being hopeful.
But at the end of the day, I'm always puzzled by a so-called Raider fan, yes, you Waste, who would gloat about (1) a dismal past 9 year record of ineptitude and (2) his so called team doing poorly this year.
The "I Told You So" cuts to the truth which is Waste is/was a fan of Al Davis NOT the Raiders. Taking it a step further, one can easily draw the conclusion that you (Waste) are happy the Raiders are doing poorly, and by extension, the new management team is doing poorly. How else should we read it.
A fan would naturally be disappointed about the team's current struggles instead of constantly always bringing the conversation back to Davis and a bygone era of football.
Newsflash Waste: If the Raiders win a total of a mere 5 more games this year, this would be an improvement over 77% of the past 9 seasons.
Would any Raider fan be happy about 6 wins? Of course FN not. But your BS about the Davis' way being better the past 9 season rings very hollow.
Me too, Jack. I way overestimated the talent on the team. There still is time because the West isn't the best again this year....if they can pull it together, it still isn't too late. But, from what we have seen from these players in their last 10 outings....not much to be inspired about. Seen stranger things happen, but......I'll be here watching.
JONES
I overestimated player talent and coaching. However, I think the coaches, particularly Dennis Allen, are smart enough to recognize their own shortcomings, part of which is..., you guessed, they overestimated talent.
While I’d love to see adjustments that exploit player strengths, I don't think it will happen. Consequently, my expectations for this year have significantly diminished.
In the end, we are seeing lots of growing pains, but things are definitely headed in the right direction from a organizational standpoint.
I am extremely confident that we will not again see the kind of internal strife that plagued this team for the better part of a decade.
Hi, guys. Just a short drive by. Things have been a bit rough in the H household the last few months. Mostly life stuff intervening. But, Grandson of H is making everyone smile through it all. Also, Grandchild Number Two of H is due in March.
Main reason I’m checking in is I will be at the game in Atlanta and was wondering if anyone on the site will also be there. Be nice to put a face to it some of the folks. I’ll be sure to drop by now and again, but just too many things taking priority for now.
H
H, sorry to hear of rough sailing in the H family. I hope the seas smooth over and the winds begin blowing from your six. You've always been a class act on this site.
Calico, you can't be a Raiders fan without being an Al Davis fan first. Otherwise you're rooting for the Seniors.
Mr.Davis is gone, let him go. I still see the Raiders playing out on the field on Sunday. Are you saying the Raiders no longer exist because Mr.Davis has passed?
JONES
Be cool H, congrats on # 2.
JONES
Root 'em in for us on Sunday, H. Be well.
H I'm sorry to hear about the choppy waters, hopefully everything smooths out. And congrats on the coming grandbaby!
And I know this is a Raider's blog, but since a couple Raiders were at the game last night I just wanted to give a quick shout-out to the A's.
Hopefully the Raiders can capture whatever is going on over at the O.co, probably not this year but maybe next.
As NYR said above, I'm really confident in the direction and structure of the organization.
As the A's have shown, there's still magic to be had in Oaktown.
:)
LET'S GO A'S!!!!! Woo-HOO!!!! Oh wait, it's a raider blog... damn! i sure wish the A's passed some of their magic to the raiders!
look at the difference folks - forget that these are two teams from different sports.
the a's are young and are supposed to lose 100 games this year. they have a small dose of veterans and an atmosphere that allows them to be who they are. look what they've done and look how far they've come. no matter what happens tonight, they've had a magical season. the thing that they have that no-one would have ever thought is actual talent.
the raiders? they're young too. we have a good mix of vets also. we have guys who always have potential talent but we always hear the same things coming out of their mouths year after year. different mouths, same schpeal, same results.
OH - and GO RAIDERS!
H:
Nice hearing from you and I wish you and your family the very best. Hope you have a nice time on Sunday in Hotlanta!
Blanda:
I will always be grateful for what Davis built and all of his contributions to the Raiders and the NFL.
This has absoultuley nothing to do with the current discussion and being a fan of the 2012 team.
Is this not a new chapter and era in Raider history? Why would a so-called Raider fan be shoving the "I told you so" in our face and gloating about the current team's struggle if she was a fan of the TEAM?
A fan of the Raiders is a fan of the Raiders. Period. Should matter if it is 1972 or 2012.
Owners, GMs, Head Coaches, and players will naturally come and go over a period of time but ultimately the team comes first.
Thanks for all your comments. Next home game will be on all grass.
Most of the local folks are putting the Falcons into the Super Bowl since they are 5-0 for the first time in history. It will be interesting to see how many Raider Fans show up this Sunday. I plan on getting down there at least two hours early.
H
Tomorrow will be the definition of what this team is. Will they quit? Will they fight for their lives? The core has to show what they are made of and this game is it. If it's another clown show, then we all have to wait until the roster is completely purged before we can expect a decent team.
Hey NYR, have you been watching the PC's with Allen and Tarver after practises? They are calling out the players, saying they have to play at a higher level. That they have to execute what is being asked of them, to come up with a few plays when the team really needs them. Sound familiar?
JONES
Agree Jones about tomorrow's game.
I'm looking for the will, desire, and competitive warrior spirit in playing to win.
If the Raiders are going to have a fighting chance tomorrow, the offensive rushing attack needs a monster game.
Jones - Yes. I’ve been watching the PCs, and I agree 100% the players need to play better for the Raiders to win. But I still question whether the players are being put in the best possible position to win, as we've been told at PCs .
Seems like we're still missing proper adjustments when our QB is pressured, like screens and rollouts. On the other side of the ball, we lack blitzing to "effect the QB;" and when we do blitz we're in the wrong coverage. These, and other similar issues are what I expect the coaches to correct.
I’m not sold on ZBS. And I’m getting tired of the Raiders futile attempts to run in it, for whatever reason you want to place on their failures.
Looking at today's game, the Raiders are 0-9 in last nine games coming out of a bye week. In those games, Raiders lost by average 14 points.
Doesn’t look good for us..., particularly if you believe it’s the same players making the same mistakes, despite coaching.
The enigma continues. See what this team can be when the front 4 is doing their job? The coaching is there, it's just a question of the players executing and playing a full 60 mins. Great challenge on that catch by JONES, got the D off the field. McFadden is not running at his best...OUCH, PAlmer just threw a pic 6, SHIT!!!! This team was playing excellent ball today....wanted to give them props and Palmer does that. Anyways, great coaching, very good execution....players making plays at the right time, except the pic, DAMN.
JONES
PENALTIES are back, coach doesn't like it. O-line is racking up the yrds today. I saw Knapp just screamin at Parsons and the rest of the O-line. These coaches aren't going to put up with these players doing their usual brainfarts. Palmer needs to pull out the last min drive. Need the championship heart, now.
JONES
Palmer to Hagan, that's what I am talkin mabout ...PUNCH IT IN.
JONES
Touchdown Raiders......look at this team....one week they look like clowns, next week the play like champs. Come on Defense.
JONES
Tough loss, but come on, if these guys play like this every week, they can be a pretty good team. Progress, now just continue that progress, don't show up next week and dog it, keep this intensity, grow from this game. I would love to see these players succeed, but they have to do it week in and week out and they haven't shown they can do that. Now is the time to turn the season around, they have a QB that can do the job, McFadden needs to get HUNGRY, his intensity is low. D-line needs play like this every game. Coaching is there, players just need to make plays....this game inspired me, even though it was a loss.
JONES
Tough loss. Today we saw better execution by players, with the exception of excessive penalties.
We also saw better game planning and playcalling by coaches.
We saw screens and roll-outs. We saw blitzing, and we saw tighter coverage during blitz packages.
Unfortunately, we also saw prevent defense when the game was on the line.
When will the entire NLF get it? Prevent defense doesn't work.
I did not watch the game...not becaue I didn't want to, family and church come first. Score looked decent, looking forward to the highlights. I hope the earth swallows up the bolts and the broncos, that would be suh-weet. Cheers
I saw just about everything that I was looking for besides the all important "W".
The team played with intensity and passion for 60 minutes. The coaching staff were well prepared and on top of things.
The offensive playcalling was a nice mix and balanced.
The D had 3 picks and good QB pressure. It had a nice goal line stop and got off the field on 3rd down in crucial parts of the game.
Guys were flying to the ball and playing AGGRESSIVELY!
If this team can play with the competitive spirit shown today on a consistent basis, I see the team turning the corner.
A tough, heart wrenching loss but nevertheless, as a fan, I was proud of the team's efforts.
Great challenge by Allen on that 3rd down play. Allen was pumping his fist on the sideline when the catch was overtuned.
I was yelling for a run play on Palmer's late INT. Raiders were in FG range with the chance to run the clock down to 2 min. with a lead. Although, we won't hold many leads with prevent defense.
Problem is NYR, they spread out the Defense with WR's. So the Raiders had to spread out with them, can't play a 4-3. They are instructed to keep everything to underneath patterns and Ryan did a good job. The #1 O and the Raider D did a great job today, no blame there from me. Can't blame anyone, they played a very good game against a top 3 team in the League in their park at 10:00am. Nope, proud of this team today and will be a happy man if they continue with this progress. No complaints today.
JONES
Outcoached 4 of 5 games now.. although by not as much.
McFadden looks slow compared to Goodsen.
Would we get a first rounder for him?
I am fine with Goodson/jones/plug-in-player for a first rounder.
McFadden is not a fit for this offense, and I dont think this offense is going anywhere soon.
Disagree Gary about McFadden.
To me, this was the 1st game where the run attack/ZBS/McFadden finally came together and turned the corner.
No problem with Goodison being incorporated more into the rushing attack but McFadden is the engine to the offense.
Build on this.
How many big runs did McFadden have called back today due a penalty on the OLine?
Might not have been a big "stats" day for McFadden but he ran with violent purpose and provided the offense the much needed balance, TOP, and use of play action.
Personally, I think this was the most complete game the Raiders have played in 2012.
The question is does this game become a "traction" game whereby the team builds on it and build on what the coaches have been teaching?
Or it an aberration type game where next week the team comes out flat without passion and creativity?
Good call on the challenge. Looks like the defensive staff worked on jumping routes on the bye week... makes me feel they are not completely clueless. Knapp called a few plays that most fans have been screaming for the entire season (screens, bootlegs) and they worked perfectly.
The only no-huddle we saw resulted in a 2 minute score. WTF he doesn't do this the entire game is a mistery.
No excuse for trading three points for twenty yards on not kicking the FG at 57 yards out.
No excuse for the lazy zone/ prevent at the end of the game.
Outcoauched 4 of 5 games.
Will this get better?
I don't think so.. not for a season or two. Patience I guess. shrug
Jones - This was the Raiders best all around defensive effort this year, until the last series.
The Falcons didn't throw anything at them they hadn't seen earlier. The Raiders dropped into coverage and let Ryan have all the time he needed.
That made no sense because the Falcons WRs are far more talented than the Raiders DBs. As would be expected, Ryan made it look easy.
Calico Jack said...
Disagree Gary about McFadden.
To me, this was the 1st game where the run attack/ZBS/McFadden finally came together and turned the corner.
No problem with Goodison being incorporated more into the rushing attack but McFadden is the engine to the offense.
Build on this.
How many big runs did McFadden have called back today due a penalty on the OLine?
>>>>
You are right... he did have some big plays called back but one of them was because the outside guy got held.
I dunno... it seems to me that this staff isn't even playing to win... they are playing for draft picks. Why not get more of them?
If they were playing to win they would go for it on fourth and 2 at the 2... kick a 57 yarder when Seabass was kicking 65ers in pre-game.
Blitzing with the game on the line instead of prevent.
Stuff like that.
This team is obviously building for the future. I am not saying they are purposely trying to lose.. its just not a priority.
Draft picks are more important right now. Just my opinion.
Gary,
Any reasonable person who watched the game today would come to the conclusion that the team and coaching staff was playing to win. The BS about "playing for draft picks" is total nonsense and you know it.
Were there calls made in hindsight in a 60 minute game worth questioning? Sure. It's what fans do from the comfort of their couch.
Overall, I think the team and coaching staff put themselves in the driver's seat to win.
The 10 point swing on the Palmer INT was devastating. But I'm sure if we would have plowed #20 into the line and settled for a FG instead of passing in n attempt to pick up 1st down and go for a TD, you would have 2nd guessed that too.
It was a bad pass by Palmer that had a huge negative impact. What I admired was how Palmer came right back out and marched us to game tying TD.
While I agree with your general point CJ, and would not profess to have the knowledge of a number of you on this board, I would simply counter that Goodson seems to be looking for the holes created by the ZBS while McFadden does not seem to either see them, recognize that they are developing, lacks the patience for them to develop, or something else.
I was at the game today so I was without the convenience of TV and DVR. From my vantage point however, there were some pretty apparent holes that were there throughout the game. Goodson with his limited opportunities seemed to exploit them, McFadden simply did not. If you subtract Goodson's 43 yard run from his four carries, he still had 16 yards on 3 carries. Certainly not a large enough sample size to make a great argument but without a doubt, better than the 2 yards a carry we have consistently seen from McFadden this year.
That being said, I think it is appropriate to question whether McFadden, who is clearly a superior athlete to Goodson, is as capable in this scheme as Goodson is or someone else (Goodson merely represents that someone else figure currently). Truth be told, McFadden is a better athlete than Arian Foster, but athletic skills does not translate into success. I am not suggesting that Goodson should start over McFadden but I would say lets incorporate more formations with Goodson as the lone back while lining McFadden up in the slot.
Blue Monday
Gary, if this was still the 'Hue' Raiders and the team came out with an effort like todays against the #1 tewam in the league right now, in their park, would you be crying like this?
This team was humiliated in Denver, the team looked lost, they come into the hottest team's backyard, put a fairly good beating on their QB, held their #1 O in check for the most part and put up over 500 yrds Offense and you are whining about the coaching? Especially knowing the history of the core of this team after a bye week?
FFS man(woman), the team showed a huge leap in progress today, came so close to knocking off the undefeated and all you do is bitch? The coaching had an undermanned team ready to pull it off and you still whine, wtf? They showed improvement, huge improvement over the last game and people are crying that the coaches blew it? Some people are just dead from the neck up.
JONES
Blue Monday, I agree, McFadden seems unwilling or unable to cutback into a hole. He only knows speed and cannot think a play through. He is going down easy and they show him on the sidelines and he is always acting hurt. His heart isn't in to it, for whatever reason, can't win with those types of players, can't do it, won't do it.....maybe the coaches are trying to be patient with McFadden, hoping he can adjust his style just a little, Goodson is doing well, good trade by the GM. Putting McFadden in the slot is a good idea, he has very good hands, matchup problems for the D.
JONES
JONES said...
Gary, if this was still the 'Hue' Raiders and the team came out with an effort like todays against the #1 tewam in the league right now, in their park, would you be crying like this?
>>>>
OFFS... if Hue had traded 3 points for 20 yards and then did nothing besides lazy zone and prevent to close the game, I'd be aquealing just as much.
Allen is a PUSSY. He tries not to lose.
Thats all he has done this entire season.
Why is this not obvious to you?
Because you wet your pants after Al died and you thought everything would be fixed?
I watched the end of the Ravens game with the Cowboys driving to win and saw no prevent... only multiple blitzes from all angles. It didn't actually work well but they won the game.
WE had all 11 players backtracking and preying Ryan wouldn't complete a pass for five straight plays.
How would you rather close a game?
Knowing we threw everything at them and they still beat us? Or having us all retreat and hope they screw up?
Allen is a fucking PUSSY.
Knapp is an imbecile.
And this is what all you Al-haters have your hopes set on.
Trade the whole team and hope St.Mck is good at drafting is what I think.
This dog don't hunt.
The 10 point swing on the Palmer INT was devastating. But I'm sure if we would have plowed #20 into the line and settled for a FG instead of passing in n attempt to pick up 1st down and go for a TD, you would have 2nd guessed that too.
It was a bad pass by Palmer that had a huge negative impact. What I admired was how Palmer came right back out and marched us to game tying TD.
>>>>'
Yea... with the only time CP got to run the no-huddle. We score in less than 2 minutes.
Where was the no-huddle the rest of the game, CJ?
Knapp wants to call the plays because HE PUTS HIS EGO OVER WINNING.
CP is one of the best no-huddle QB's in the NFL, perhaps behind only Manning and Brady.
The only game we won was when he ran no-huddle almost exclusively.
Why did it disappear?
I think because the coaching staff knows they have a cushy 2 to 3 year time frame to succeed.
The more they lose the better the draft pick. Thats why there is so little gambling.
Hue knew if he didn't win he was fired.. thus he coached like his hair was on fire and it WORKED for the most part... this dog aint gonna hunt.
If we lose to Jax next week because Allen tried really really hard not to lose again are we all still going to be swallowing this sperm?
I'm not going to make excuses or agree with the late game prevent, Charmin soft D at the end of the game. However, I think the coaching staff for 59:00 played aggressively and to win.
As I alluded to earlier, the team showed heart, character, and passion today.
I think it is fair to say that Allen (and staff) did an outstanding job getting these guys readly from a tactical and motivational standpoint.
Calling Allen a "pussy" and playing to lose or playing for draft picks is simply not true and nothing more than a cheap-shot from a fan who wishes Baby Huey was still the Raiders head coach.
Currently Baby Huey is a secondary coach for the Bengals. In other words, he was such an offensive genius in high demand that 30 teams passed on him for an offensive staff position and the Bengals rehired him to coach DBs. Brilliant! He probably begged Mike Brown to come back.
They showed improvement, huge improvement over the last game and people are crying that the coaches blew it? Some people are just dead from the neck up.
>>>>>>
Not happy with improvement over the clown car.
Not happening.
We have three total dogs in front of us who we should DESTROY... and I am not going to be happy with anything besides total destruction.
We need BOAR HUNTERS not people happy with improvement over the clown car.
Calling Allen a "pussy" and playing to lose or playing for draft picks is simply not true and nothing more than a cheap-shot from a fan who wishes Baby Huey was still the Raiders head coach.
>>>>
I never said he was playing to lose, and said that very clearly.
I am saying they are playing "not to lose" which is very different than trying to win at all costs.
I do think this staff is very confident in their job positions.
I don't perceive a change for many many years.
I also don't foresee much winning for many many years.
Thats the point.
If we blow out Jax next week I might start to change my mind.
I don't dee that hapopening in my wildest dreams.
A last second FG is the best this team will EVER muster under this staff, IMO. They are playing NOT TO LOSE.
Post a Comment
<< Home