Five Postgame Takes
1. That was a gutsy comeback staged and directed by Carson Palmer...But you can't throw that last pick.
2. Surely the Raiders must own some sort of record for allowing 150+ yards to a running back over the past five years. How many backs have had ridiculously epic games against the Raiders? Seems like it happens way too often. What was amazing to me is how uncoordinated our pursuits looked after Martin and their receivers reached the open field. Our secondary once again reminded me of Cirque du Soleil: a bunch of clowns flying around, hitting nothing.
3. The Coliseum was off the hook when the Raiders stopped the Buccaneers to get the ball back with three minutes to go, down by three. There's nothing like the Coliseum when it's off the hook. The individual cells of the Raider Nation body merge into one awesome connected black-clad organism of noise. Epic.
4. Then Palmer throws that pick...
5. I could be way off base here, but I can't help but think back to Gruden and Gannon, and their leadership presence. It's a similar time for the Raiders to when Gruden arrived (and Gannon after that), with the team trying to dig out of a longtime hole with a young unproven coach and a veteran quarterback. If I recall correctly, Gruden and Gannon were up in people's grills a lot. Do Allen and Palmer have that same fire? Can't say I'm seeing it. Dennis Allen looks remarkably calm in the face of some humiliating play on defense and bad officiating calls. Palmer looks calm and precise and like he knows what he's doing, but but there's a cool aloofness to his body language on the field and sideline, like he's seen it all before and nothing's going to bother him. I'm not saying they should start throwing chairs for the sake of theater, but I'd like to see a more vivid sense of command and control. Again, I could be way off the mark, playing armchair psychologist through my binoculars.
All that said, I think we have major personnel problems, and that it's going to take time for McKenzie and Allen to work some magic on that front. It's just that I see no particular reason why this team shouldn't be at least a little better than it is.
2. Surely the Raiders must own some sort of record for allowing 150+ yards to a running back over the past five years. How many backs have had ridiculously epic games against the Raiders? Seems like it happens way too often. What was amazing to me is how uncoordinated our pursuits looked after Martin and their receivers reached the open field. Our secondary once again reminded me of Cirque du Soleil: a bunch of clowns flying around, hitting nothing.
3. The Coliseum was off the hook when the Raiders stopped the Buccaneers to get the ball back with three minutes to go, down by three. There's nothing like the Coliseum when it's off the hook. The individual cells of the Raider Nation body merge into one awesome connected black-clad organism of noise. Epic.
4. Then Palmer throws that pick...
5. I could be way off base here, but I can't help but think back to Gruden and Gannon, and their leadership presence. It's a similar time for the Raiders to when Gruden arrived (and Gannon after that), with the team trying to dig out of a longtime hole with a young unproven coach and a veteran quarterback. If I recall correctly, Gruden and Gannon were up in people's grills a lot. Do Allen and Palmer have that same fire? Can't say I'm seeing it. Dennis Allen looks remarkably calm in the face of some humiliating play on defense and bad officiating calls. Palmer looks calm and precise and like he knows what he's doing, but but there's a cool aloofness to his body language on the field and sideline, like he's seen it all before and nothing's going to bother him. I'm not saying they should start throwing chairs for the sake of theater, but I'd like to see a more vivid sense of command and control. Again, I could be way off the mark, playing armchair psychologist through my binoculars.
All that said, I think we have major personnel problems, and that it's going to take time for McKenzie and Allen to work some magic on that front. It's just that I see no particular reason why this team shouldn't be at least a little better than it is.
posted by Raider Take at 7:40 AM
54 Comments:
Great take, my thoughts exactly... I'm going to enjoy the rest of the season, however it may pan out, and think about 2013. Much like the halftime adjustments, this offseason will be much like that, and, well, we are better off than we were four years ago... That was an exciting game, as was the Atlanta match. I respect the squad. Gruden, Gannon, spot-on take. Personnel: yup!
SCAR
Great points Raider Take...
speaking of Magic, there was magic at the coliseum yesterday, just, not, quite, not enough. The QB sneak on 4th and 2 was BALLSY, and there were some great plays that put the Raiders in a position to win the game in the 4th quarter, and yet,,,Carsons Tank was empty at 32 points.
It was gruesome to watch Martin SHRED, and even that isnt a strong enough word for it, the Raiders Defense. It still impresses me that the Raiders fought back, and were in a position to win though,,
Unless there is a private persona that is different from the public persona, Dennis Allen is not a motivator the way Gruden was.
When it comes to Palmer, actions are speaking volumes right now. Palmer has been carrying the Raiders for 8 games now. ZERO running game. In obvious passing downs. with The opposing Defenses teeing off on him. Palmer is not perfect as we saw yesterday, but he is in some pretty rarified air in my opinion.
How about a more stout Offensive line? This is a personnel problem...
Hindsight is 20/20 so I will only mention this once and then drop it,,,but man oh man, I wish Mckenzie could have somehow managed to resign Bush...
halfway point and I am still dreaming about making the playoffs.(I dont need any "playoffs?!?!?!" remarks,,,dreaming is dreaming) At the least winning every single game left with Division opponnents, but I feel at this point, the wins will have to come in magical ways, and not in conventional our team is better then your team ways.
SCAR
Dennis Allen seems measured in his actions and responses, but he's not without desire and intent. I've seen him get amped up a bit on the sideline, and I believe the players respect him. I wouldn't assume he's not a good motivator.
In terms of play, the Raiders are totally one-dimensional on offense right now. Essentially, Carson Palmer is carrying the team. He had 62 pass attempts to 11 running plays. And it doesn't get any easier with Baltimore next up and McFadden and Goodson both injured.
Raiders will likely dig into free agency to find a serviceable RB, which could cost Aaron Curry his spot on the roster. However, after watching Martin SHRED, as SCAR said, the Raiders defense, I don't think the Raiders can afford not to activate Curry to the roster.
Back to the game, the Raiders seemed to get too greedy at the end, wanting to cash in on the big play. Say they did score quickly, doesn't that bring Martin back on the field for another try?
SCAR
NYR, I was thinking the same thing on the last drive,,,why not finally mix it up with run plays, then I remembered, the Raiders don't really have any one to hand the ball off to. The Bucs were bringing the heat rushing the qb, I recall one screen play called, maybe not enough calls to try and cool the rush down. That falls on Knapp right?
DA is a different type of Motivator then Gruden was,,,the jury is still out on Allen...
SCAR
I've been listening to this CD that the Raiders radio affiliate produced after the 2000 season with highlights from each game, with game summaries and audio of radio calls and on-field clips of Gruden and the players. It's really entertaining. I guess I'm just sentimental for that sense of fire. I remember Gruden and Gannon bringing it in spades. If you screwed up, you heard about it, big time. Seemed like the sense of accountability accelerated greatly, and results followed.
Palmer looks calm and precise and like he knows what he's doing, but but there's a cool aloofness to his body language on the field and sideline, like he's seen it all before and nothing's going to bother him. I'm not saying they should start throwing chairs for the sake of theater, but I'd like to see a more vivid sense of command and control
>>>>
I remember a quote from someone that played with Montana saying he cracked a joke in the huddle during a game winning SB drive. He was that confident and at ease.
Not all QB's have the same demeanor.
Hindsight is 20/20 so I will only mention this once and then drop it,,,but man oh man, I wish Mckenzie could have somehow managed to resign Bush...
>>>>>
Uhh, have you SEEN him lately? He looks like his head got stuck in an ice cream bucket and he ate his way out. I bet he is pushing 260 right now.
He was 10 for 16 yards yesterday, while Forte was 12 for 103 behind the same line.
Bush has never been a burner, but I bet I could outsprint him right now.
SCAR
I have seen Bush in two games, In those games he was running thru the first tackler.
Bush was/is excellent at blocking on passing plays. Whoever was in there yesterday could not handle the linebackers and db's blitzing. For the season even after yesterday, Bush is averaging 3.4 yds. How many of those rushes were short yardage situations? Do we even have a short yardage specialist? I concede that in the Raiders ZBS scheme, maybe Bush doesnt "fit",,,still...
Bush made a lateral move, second string on the Raiders, to second string on the Bears. Here and now, The Raiders are in serious need of a RB.
SCAR
It's week 9 of the season and players still don't know their assignments? Giordano leaving the deep zone to let Jackson run by him, I saw Huff and Giordano play "you got him" way to many times yesterday.
I think TB showed the blueprint to beating the Raiders Defense down to a limp noodle. Take Burris and Wheeler out of the game, work the safety CB zones and then slam the ball up the tired middle of the D-line in the 2nd half and watch the Defense wilt like a weed with no water.
Kelly and Seymour cannot play a tough physical game for 60 minutes, Burris can't tackle a small RB, where was Wheeler yesterday? McClain doing his usual 'no show', Huff showing he isn't ready for the big boys out on the Corner.
McFadden showing he is a one dimensional RB. He doesn't like to take the hits most RB's take during a course of the game. He can only play one way and if a 5 foot hole isn't staring him in the face, he is lost. Top RB's can make something out of nothing ONCE AND A WHILE. If it isn't a 5 foot hole, McFadden can't do anything. How bout breaking a tackle, for once? How bout making a DB miss? He looks like he is finished, unless he can find a team that will cater to his one trick. I have seen no fight from him this year, no desire to make things happen, disappointing. Goodson made yards when he was in there, I believe Reece will look better at HB than McFadden has.
The team showed what they are again yesterday. The have the lead starting the 2nd half and they play like they aren't sure, like they have no idea how to play a full 60 minutes. It's these lapses that we have witnessed for many years in Oakland, I'm inclined to believe it's just the character of the players. They can't or won't play for 60 minutes especially when the team they are playing, are playing tough physical football with no quit in them. They play like losers, I really believe that's what they feel when they are in tough games. They have that "losing feeling" and it continues to fester on this team.
JONES
Too funny, Routt get's waived in KC....how long before 'fans' start screaming for Reggie to sign him?
JONES
McFadden was clearly flat, and was nowhere near the RB that Martin was yesterday. Even if we can just blame the Raiders blocking, Goodson looked much better catching and running. I can't believe we're nine weeks (8 games) in and McFadden looks worse. You would think that Palmer's ability to throw for over 400 yards keeps teams honest when it comes to balancing their defense and not stacking against the run. The Raiders running game is horrendous.
2013.
What's 2013? If we have to turn half the roster we'll be facing another period of transition in 2013.
If Reggie can bring in more players like he has with his limitations this year, I don't think it will be a 10 year plan, like the last regime.
It is what it is, we have to accept that the talent isn't the greatest. Did you see the 'franchised' player on Sunday? He is coming over to help in coverage on a long pass and as he is running to the play, the ball pops off his helmet in what should have been a pick, he didn't even look for the ball.
The top paid and top picks of the last regime continue to disappoint (Huff, McClain,Seymour,Kelly,McFadden, Mitchell, now Wiz and Veldheer, Russell, Hall, Routt, last 3 still counting on the cap, etc)..... That is what this team is, Routt, a player that some Raider fans drooled over, was cut by the worst team in the league. Just more proof of the theory that the players just aren't good enough. The coaching can be Hall of Fame (I am not suggesting Raider coaches are), if the talent isn't there, it isn't going to work. ?
JONES
No matter what happens this season, there will be significant changes in 2013. Instead of worrying or dreading these changes and the necessary transitioning, I welcome it with open arms.
I like the way DA is conducting himself. He is a steady, focused, determined leader who isn't making excuses or throwing players under the bus.
Clearly he went into this 1st head coaching gig with his eyes wide open and a realistic view of the heavy lifting required to get the team playing good football on a consistent basis.
Normally a game like yesterday, especially the past 9 years, would have been a complete blowout.
In spite of getting gashed on D, the team was in a good position to win the game outright with 2:53 left.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not claiming a moral victory for continuing to come back and hang tough. What I saw was an offense that against all odds and a D pinning their ears back with obvious pass plays, kept making plays and plugging away.
The biggest weakness that I saw in our run D was the interior of the line and MLB. Kelly, Seymour, and McClain were getting manhandled, unable to shed blocks, and unable to make tackles.
No doubt the Ravens (and RB Rice) will try to use the Bucs blueprint next Sunday in Baltimore. This will be an excellent test to see if the Raiders have what it takes to make the adjustments to shore up the D.
Onwards and upwards.
You got it, Jack.
JONES
"If Reggie can bring in more players like he has with his limitations this year, I don't think it will be a 10 year plan"
Mike Mayock said the other day on NFL Network that the GM / HC relationship is critically important to a team's success.
This is what separates the old Raiders from the new Raiders, and why the Raiders couldn't duplicate the last 10 years if they tried.
That relationship permeates through the entire organization and it is why, IMO, they are more resilient when facing adversity.
(None of the above changes the fact I don't like ZBS!)
I'm hoping the Raiders can trade up into the first round of the draft this year, and get Barner out of Oregon who is a RB in a ZBS system.
Maybe we trade McFadden to a power block running team, say like Washington? I don't know, but if ZBS is here to stay, then we need an effective running game.
If it is not going to stay dominate, then we need a new OC. Knapp isn't cutting it.
2013.
No doubt the Ravens (and RB Rice) will try to use the Bucs blueprint next Sunday in Baltimore. This will be an excellent test to see if the Raiders have what it takes to make the adjustments to shore up the D.
>>>>
I agree.. but if you look at the last time we got smashed on the ground by long runs, the following week we held Pitts 20-54 on the ground.
The one thing I have noticed about Tarver/Allen that is different in the past in our DCs... they don't seem completely clueless on how to make changes.
I'm guessing there is going to be some lineup changes... and more of a commitment to stopping the run... instead of this moronic focus of sacking the QB which all Raider teams seem to habitually slip into.
Remember... the first long rushing TD was with McClain blitzing and letting the RB run right past him while trying and sack the QB.
This can be FIXED.
They need to stop the run FIRST, and then challenge Flacco to beat us.
This can be done.
Gary,
the problem isn't if "it can be done!" Rather it is, "will it be done". Not just by the coaches, but the players on the field.
I read Steve Cochran write in the "Live Chat" that we can probably expect half the starters gone next season.
The only consistent thing that we've seen the last 3 or 4 years with all the different coaches has been that we are inconsistent. That equates to the player talent. I'm not sure we have the talent on our roster for these changes to stop the run to take place. My minty fresh drink I had at the beginning of the season spilled from a leaky cup.
Nate, so because 'Cork" says it, now it's the TRUTH? I've been writing it here since they quit on the field in Miami....Can't win with them, can't do it, won't do it....
MIKE JONES
2:00 PM
Anonymous MIKE JONES said...
Nate, so because 'Cork" says it, now it's the TRUTH?
>>>>
He's usually pretty spot on.
He helped make me money by predicting a KC blowout of sorts.
And I do trust the opinion of a longtime beat writer that everyone likes that has inside access to players, coaches, scouts, etc... over pretty much any of us... myself included.
I think he is is better with insight than JMAC who is also really good.
Raider Nate 75 said...
Gary,
the problem isn't if "it can be done!" Rather it is, "will it be done". Not just by the coaches, but the players on the field.
>>>>
Well true, but so far this year, anytime I see something glaringly obvious on the defensive side it seems to get cleaned up the following game.
Backsliding is natural.
I wish I could say the same about the offense... Moore looks clueless out there all of a sudden. It would suck if CP stopped looking his way because he is quite the weapon.
"And I do trust the opinion of a longtime beat writer that everyone likes that has inside access to players, coaches, scouts, etc... over pretty much any of us... myself included."....
What happened to 'mediots'? You "crew" members always said the press was a joke, now a press member is a god. My, how things change.
JONES
What happened to 'mediots'? You "crew" members always said the press was a joke, now a press member is a god. My, how things change.
JONES
>>>>>>
It wasn't me, Jones.
I do get sick of the radio personalities kicking the Raiders every chance they get... but that won't change until we put a better product on the field. I don't think we are far away... the NFL is coaching and QBs... and we are developing both.
Why does this guy keep his job???
From PFF:
Since moving into the starting lineup, right tackle Willie Smith (-4.6) looks completely out of his depth, maintaining the problem spot of the Raiders remains right tackle. He has actually had three worse pass-blocking grades this season, but the sack, knockdown and four further hurries he accounted for this game still represented a major issue for the Raiders and put Palmer under pressure on plays where there should have been a clean pocket. Perhaps the worst of his play came on the sack with 4:11 to go in the second quarter. With Oakland looking to pass on 2nd-and-10, Smith was beaten around his outside so fast that Bucs defensive ends Michael Bennett met Palmer at the top of his drop, dumping him for a 7-yard loss before the quarterback had a chance to do anything.
...end quote...
He forgot to mention he took 7 points off the board with a holding call on a CP TD pass... we got ZERO instead.
I just watched the coaches film rewind... the first long run given up was completely on McClain... he had the play broken up if had been paying attention to the RB instead of taking on a blocker INSIDE THE POCKET! Crazy!
The second one was a whiff by Lee at the LOS... then a complete circus act in the secondary.
The third one was a whiff by Burris at the LOS and then more circus act.
Moore and Smith had horrible games on the offensive side.. everyone else played pretty good. There is no way the killer int was on CP.. Moore had to have ran the wrong way on the route.
Moore had one clear drop, and at least three wrong routes.. one with the CB falling down right next to him. His worst game as a pro hands down.
Streater is a diamond in the coal mine though... I wouldn't be surprised if he starts taking over games. No way is CP going to keep trusting Moore if he can't even remember which way to turn on a hook route with the game on the line.
CP is one of the best QBs the Raiders ever had under duress.. some of his passes right before being sacked are amazing... check out that two point conversion pass sometime. His checkdowns to the TE before getting pummeled are like WOW.
I can't imagine what he would do with an actual RT and a clean pocket like Brady gets every play.
Seemed like a complete meltdown on defense. IMO, McClain can be too aggressive diving into the LOS and can't shed blockers once engaged. And he's not nearly as smart as many in the media made him out to be. If he's in the right place at the right time, he can put almost any player to the ground, but those instances don't present themselves nearly as often as they should. Consequently, he's not the impact player that you need in the middle of your defense.
The Raiders secondary was completely over-matched by the Bucs WRs, so trying to defend the run only added to their misery.
Despite the one BIG mistackle Buris had, he has been a sign of progress for the Raiders team as a whole. He's a player.
I can't even wing an explanation for Moore. Maybe he's as lost in the Raiders new offense as McFadden appears to be.
I think we've seen a pattern of adjustments from week to week, and I would expect as much this week. IMO, the Raiders will bring some game with them to Baltimore. Hopefully, the Ravens are full of themselves and will get snake bit.
Jones,
I should clarify. I did not mean to imply that Cork is right because he says it; I posted it as an agreement to how I'm feeling about the team.
I really don't think that we are going to lose half of the team overnight; but if we are going to be winners in the future, we will eventually need to cut half of our roster and replace them with better talent; IF we stick with this system.
The frustrating thing is Hue got the most out of this team in 1 year; I would have liked to have seen him as coach, but with a better Defensive Coordinator. Just think, if McKenzie would have kept Hue, and Dennis Allen stayed in Denver; we could have Jack Del Rio as DC.
It will be just as frustrating if we start making cuts on Offense and bring in guys who run a ZBS, fire Knapp (and/or Allen), and bring in a guy who wants a new system where the new roster doesn't fit his system.
With the way this sport is, we all know that nothing is long term, nor can it be guaranteed long term. Yes, I agree we need about half the roster gone for this system to work; but how long is this system going to be in place?
Hue said he was going to make changes, he threw the team under the bus in the same Press Conference. It wasn't all rosey with Hue like most Raider fans make out. Hue got 8-8, 1-4 down the stretch with 1 more win to make the playoffs. Hue was propped by Sanders making the gameplans and designs of the Offense, it wasn't Hue.
This Offense is moving the ball, just because McFadden refuses to be a stop and go runner, doesn't mean the Offense isn't working. Palmer is having a career year, if you haven't noticed. And that's with WR's dropping balls, blowing their routes, an O-line that is mediocre right now and a RB that "just doesn't know how to run in this ZBS".
Raider fans over-rate Hue just like they do with players like Stanford Routt. Meanwhile, they dump on a coaching staff that has a whole new way of wanting things, and after only 8 games. Allen is here for a while, Knapp, maybe not, but Allen knows what he wants, he sold Reggie on it and Reggie isn't going to pull the rug on Allen.
Looks as though Reggie and Allen are on the same page when it comes to the players they want. It isn't players who play when they want, who lose focus during games and who refuse to bring their games to a level needed to be consistent winners in the NFL. So if you consider that a bad thing, you are in for some more 'change' that you will not like because Hue will have no part in it.
Hue is gone, done, a myth. This HC isn't going anywhere and to wish he wasn't the HC, by waivering Raider fans, doesn't mean he can't get the job done. I'm willing to give them a chance, to see what they can do with a roster that resembles a good NFL team.
2011 Oakland Raiders
Record: 8-8-0, Finished 1st in AFC West Division
NFL Season Summary
Scored 359 points (22.4/g), 16th of 32 in the NFL.
Allowed 433 points (27.1/g), 29th.
Differential of -74 points (-4.6/g), 23rd.
They were 4-4 after 8 games, they then went on a 3 game winning streak, they then went 1-4 to finish out the season. Sound familiar? This team is what it is and it's barely Avg.
JONES
It's not about wanting Hue Jackson back as HC, or even to call the plays on offense. It's about getting the most out of the talent you have. That's something Jackson seemed to have an ability to do (at least until his ego got in the way).
Raider Nate said: "It will be just as frustrating if we start making cuts on Offense and bring in guys who run a ZBS, fire Knapp (and/or Allen), and bring in a guy who wants a new system where the new roster doesn't fit his system.
That's an excellent point. Carson Palmer is carrying this offense. How long can he do that? Somebody else has to step up. Hopefully, the coaches can exploit what talent they have and make that happen.
From PFT:
"Given the $5 million guaranteed [Routt] received this year from the Raiders and the $6 million he’ll get from the Chiefs, getting $11 million to be fired twice in one year isn’t a bad deal."
Plus, he can collect whatever compensation he can get from another team, if signed. He might not be a good CB but he must have a hell of a good agent.
Blogger nyraider said...
It's not about wanting Hue Jackson back as HC, or even to call the plays on offense. It's about getting the most out of the talent you have. That's something Jackson seemed to have an ability to do (at least until his ego got in the way).
>>>>
That's why I keep saying that on offense, it seems that everyone besides CP has regressed some.
I don't know who or what to blame for this, and maybe it doesn't matter right now... but all I know is this cannot continue.
You don't win many games in the NFL with players underachieving across the board.
I'm sure everyone can agree on this.
"You don't win many games in the NFL with players underachieving across the board"
The question is....are they underachieving, or is it, this is what they are? They were 4-4 after 8 games last year, finished up 1-4. Why do people keep repeating the same ole lines of " Hue got so much more out of them". " They were so much better with Hue".
2012 Oakland Raiders
Record: 3-5-0, Currently 3rd place in AFC West Division
NFL Season Summary
Scored 171 points (21.4/g), 19th of 32 in the NFL.
Allowed 229 points (28.6/g), 28th.
Differential of -58 points (-7.2/g), 28th.
Expected W-L: 2.7-5.3.
Takeaway/Giveaway Differential -1 (-0.1/g), 17th.
It seems to me that this is what the talent is. Can win with them, can't......
JONES
"He might not be a good CB"
He might? I think when you get released by 2 of the bottom feeding teams, when you are in your 'prime', yeah, he ISN'T that good. Routt was touted as one of the better players on the team last year....what does that tell you? Kind of embarrassing when Nnamdi is getting torched and Raider fans are screaming "bring back Nnamdi".
Thus, the mentality of many Raider fans, love the players no matter how inept and tie the coaches to the whipping post. Same thing Mr.Davis did in his 2 1/2 decades of mediocre.
JONES
"Hopefully, the coaches can exploit what talent they have and make that happen"
What talent? Name one starter on the Raiders Offense or Defense that would be an impact player on a top team in the league. Don't want to hear about 'potential', just today, right now, other than Wheeler, Burris or Palmer.
JONES
"That's why I keep saying that on offense, it seems that everyone besides CP has regressed some."
I hear alot of comments about how bad everything is with the offense (excluding CP's play). I also hear plenty of chatter about what a great Huey was in terms of the offense in 2011.
The reality is that in spite of struggles at RT, the ZBS/run game, inexperienced WRs running poor routes and dropping balls, Knapp supposedly not having a clue ...
the offense in 2012 has averaged exactly 1 less point per game.
2011 AVG = 22.4 pts. per game
2012 AVG = 21.4 pts. per game
7-5 @ Miami Dolphins
14-34
304 tot yrds
258 pass
46 run
7-6 @ Green Bay Packers
16-46
357 tot yrds
240 Pass
117 run
7-7 at home Detroit Lions
27-28
477 Tot yrds
345 Pass
132 Run
8-7 @ Kansas City Chiefs
16-13
308 tot yrds
237 Pass
71 Run
8-8 at home San Diego Chargers
26-38
520 Tot yrds
417 Pass
103 Run
Looks very familiar.
JONES
OOps, that was the last 5 games of the 2011 season.
JONES
Don't forget Jack, the O-line that can't pass or run block without someone whiffing on almost every play. Pass blocking is straight up one on one battles, so the zone excuse won't hold up for that. I just want one person to tell me who on the Raider roster would make an impact on a top team in the league.....no one can answer that one, for some reason.
JONES
What the hell...
at home San Diego Chargers
14-22
321 tot yrds
276 pass
45 run
0-2 @ Miami Dolphins
13-35
396 tot yrds
373 pass
23 run
1-2 at home Pittsburgh Steelers
34-31
321 tot yrds
202 pass
119 run
1-3 @ Denver Broncos
6-37
237 tot yrds
181 pass
56 run
1-4 @ Atlanta Falcons
20-23
474 tot yrds
325 pass
149 run
OT
2-4 at home Jacksonville Jaguars
23-20
351 tot yrds
282 pass
69 run
3-4 @ Kansas City Chiefs
26-16
344 tot yrds
209 pass
135 run
Gary, that's funny that you saw the "circus act" on the coaches film.
That's what I saw from the stands, but it was live, and happening quickly, and it's not easy to see it all at once, and there's no replay access at the time.
So what you saw confirms what I saw, which was basically a clown show once the pursuit was on.
I was sitting there, thinking these guys are supposed to be world-class athletes, and they're getting juked out of their sneakers by a rookie and flailing around like their hair is on fire.
I guess that's pretty much the prescription for giving up 250 yards to a single back...
Funny, just after writing that last comment, I stumbled upon this autopsy of Martin vs. The Raiders, complete with narrative and photos, it's nothing short of a must-read:
http://nfl.si.com/2012/11/07/break-it-down-doug-martins-tale-of-two-halves/?sct=hp_wr_a4&eref=sihp
Here's a pullquote from the piece:
Finally, that third touchdown — Martin’s longest of the day at 70 yards (he later added a 1-yard TD to put Oakland away late).
Upon first glance, the Raiders appear to have restored some defensive positioning. The line of scrimmage for the play was the 30, and at least five Raiders defenders are at or beyond that line.
Donald Penn (No. 70, on the ground), though, managed to provide just enough of a block to knock two Oakland defenders off-balance. The other Buccaneers’ linemen took care of the rest, sealing off five defenders and opening a huge cutback lane for Martin.
But again, this is a play that should have resulted in a decent game … and nothing more.
Even once Martin cleared the line, there are three Raiders defenders that appear to be in position to clamp down on him.
Wrong.
Martin turned on the after-burners and Oakland’s safety again took too shallow an angle to the football, allowing the speedy running back space to slide to his right and hit open field.
And one more time, even as Oakland’s defenders seemed ready to track him down, Martin left them in his wake.
Unable to shed blockers, weak arm tackles, poor angles, poor tackling technique, out of position, lack of penetration or disruption in the backfield, lack of awareness, lack of aggression at the point of attack ... everything and anything that had to do with piss poor rush D was on full display.
It was very discouraging to witness.
As I mentioned earlier, the Ravens is a test for the Raiders D to show that they can make the adjustments and get back to the basic defensive blue print for success; stop the run, get after the QB, and get off the field.
Jones - Football is also a business. Routt is not an $11mm CB, but he "might" be better than any CB on the Raiders roster right now. Before you jump out of your skin and write that I said want him back, I don't. But your comments regarding him are void of any business consideration that the Chiefs (and Raiders) made in releasing him.
"Name one starter on the Raiders Offense or Defense that would be an impact player on a top team in the league
Impact or not, the Raiders have a history of players performing at a higher level with other teams, before and after they played for the Raiders. It's their culture, right?
In terms of impact, McFadden (before injury) led the league in rushing last year behind a decent O-line. This year, McFadden and his line (which includes two of the Raiders top prospects in Veldheer and Wiz) are all grossly underachieving in the running game. Maybe it is on the players, but the observation is pretty clear.
Name those players NYR, throwing out general statements isn't proving any point. Routt is so good, no team wants him. Routt is just a "business decision", is BS.
Just tell me who is good enough to be an impact player on a good team. Just tell me and then we can start from there.
What history of Raider players playing better on another team? Now you are agreeing with my culture theory playing a part in players not performing? You are going in so many circles and making no points while you are at it. Until you can give EVIDENCE, your points are worthless.
McFadden can run only one way and if it isn't going his way, he either gets hurt or just goes down as soon as he is touched. Again, I said NOT on potential, today, right now. I noticed you left out that the same O-line is "grossly underachieving" in the passing game as well, where it is straight up, one on one blocking. Just spin baby.
JONES
Thanx for the link RT... the author clearly is taking advantage of NFL.com's coaches film... its really very interesting.
Safeties taking the wrong angle to the ball has been a staple of every Raider team for 15 years (with the exception of RWood)
Its maddening. Pope, Dorsett, Schweigert, Huff, Giordano, Branch, Gibson.
Jones - For someone who complains so much about others being insincere in their posts, you sure could take a lesson.
Where did I say releasing Routt was "just a business decision?"
And I'm not throwing out general statements; McFadden led the league in rushing when he became injured last year. How is that general? Do I need to cite the stats to make that presentable for you?
"Now you are agreeing with my culture theory playing a part in players not performing?"
I never disagreed with it. Your problem is you paint everything I write as extreme, to the point you believe your fabrications of my posts as truths.
What I have said and continue to stand behind is that football is a team sport. Both the players and the coaches take part in the product on the field, and we've all (well, most of us) seen examples of breakdowns in performance and coaching.
As the weeks go by, it is becoming more evident that the coaches are making adjustments, and players tend to regress afterward. There's no doubt the Raiders have talent issues. Nevertheless, I'd prefer to base my opinions on my own observations, and not because you told me so.
Thank you, and have a nice day!
Jones -
I do respect your passion for Raider football. If you didn’t care deeply about the success of the organization then why take the time to organize your thoughts and routinely participate in the discussion thread each week. With that being said, I wonder if you recognize how confrontational you come off in your writing? You certainly have some solid perspective to share… we’d all like to hear it. I just think it would be easier for your audience to absorb if you weren’t so quick to judge and then go on the attack.
Remember, the reason people come here is to share their observations and insight with other fans who care about the success of our team. No one in here has coached or held a front office position at the NFL level, this is just a bunch of good guys who want to engage in some solid, respectful discussion about the state of our organization. As is human nature, we’re all inclined to see our own arguments as more logical or on point than anyone else. I’m certainly guilty myself. Just remember, all of us in here share a common interest, which is in restoring a championship caliber franchise.
Now, admittedly, some degree of light hearted sparring is inevatible from time to time. However, out of respect for RT, and his efforts to run a civil and considerate blog, let’s try and keep the spin doctoring in check.
Respctfully,
The5er
I would submit M. Reece is one of (if not the most) dynamic full back in the league and certainly someone who would be an impact player on any team in the league.
Think the Patriots or the Broncos would make good use of this guy?
Clearly (and rightfully so) there has been much discussion about whether our performance is the result of player personnel, coaching and systems, or perhaps a larger cultural issue. These are all good questions… and certainly the kinds of things that are worthy of our analysis.
A few more thoughts which I’ll offer up for discussion…
I think judging “talent” is a much more complex topic than most people are willing to give credence to. The talent each player displays on the field can be the result of many other external factors which are ultimately beyond his control. For instance, is he comfortable operating in that scheme? Are his coaches putting him in apposition to exercise his strengths as a player? What kind of talent is he surrounded by? What’s the overall culture in the locker room? These are called intangibles… and they have a significant impact.
If anyone needs an example just look at our own Rich Gannon. Up until 1999 the guy was basically a journeyman QB who struggled holding a starting job in the NFL. At that time, very few NFL experts would have considered him “capable of being an impact player on a top tier team.”
Enter Jon Gruden. The combination of play calling, offensive scheme, cohesion between player and coach, and a changing culture allowed Gannon to begin performing at a level which had been completely unachievable up until that point. Then, by 2001 when he was finally surrounded with some real talent, the guy becomes one of the more proficient QB’s in the league, eventually winning the MVP the following year. If anyone had evaluated Gannon’s talent level in 1998 without the larger context, it seems reasonable they would have drastically underestimated his potential. The point is I think we need to be cautious of trying to evaluate the individual talent of our players in a vacuum. Success and elite level performance are the result of a combination of ingredients… Without a much wider angle lens to view the situation, individual talent is easily misinterpreted.
Just my two cents…
re. JONES:
I don't think that it is really hard to figure out, that both CP and McFadden would be impact players on several of current NFL rosters right away.
Don't you think that KC, Jacksonville or Tennessee would be better off with CP under center than whoever plays QB for them right now?
And McFadden: I don't know where you have been last year, but he was running all over defenders until he got hurt. His performance this year is a direct result of completely unnecessary scheme changes, where in addition to himself our O-Line is struggling as well. I would guess, that about 10 teams would sign him right away because of what he showed in recent years. Give him a great O-Line and an OC who works to his strengths an not against him and he is easily a Top 5 RB in this league.
Jeez....
New take is up, and it's called A Clown Show Autopsy. Your turn...
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