Five Postgame Takes
2. That said, I still don't see why this team shouldn't be as good, or better, than last year's team. I could understand being stuck in neutral with this roster. But full-on regression? I don't get that.
3. Look at the stats for both teams. Then look at the score. The stats lie, lie, lie. What the stats don't tell you is the Raiders got absolutely punked. There's no stat for that.
4. Seven games left. We need to win five of them to match last year's record. Unlikely. Yet another year without a winning record. I used to joke about the 10-year plan and about it taking a decade to achieve a winning record. Now we've passed that mark. Incredible.
5. The players apparently didn't get the memo that the scholarship era is over. They see a guy like Stanfort Routt still making out like a bandit after being cut by the Raiders and the Chiefs, and they probably haven't figured it out yet. They are in for a rude awakening. McKenzie isn't going to inflate anyone's stock. The perpetual Christmas is over in Alameda. Don't buy a Raiders jersey right now, because you're going to see a lot of names on the discount rack next summer. There's no other path to take at this point.
posted by Raider Take at 5:55 PM
76 Comments:
Agreed....
I'm wondering if these players ever got over the passing of Mr.Davis and the 1-4 record they posted at the end of last year. This is when it seemed to start falling apart for them. Hue blasted the players at the end of last year.
Then they have to learn a 'new' way of playing football that Balanda says they are not equipt for. They were chosen to play in the Mr.Davis system, not this one and they look very much like a fish out of water right now. I know Allen/McKenzie have huge questions about these players and you have to know the players know it. They can see their careers passing before their eyes and they could be losing their heart, or what was left of their heart.
Hopefully that 'black cloud' will be wiped away so it doesn't infect those who will be retained down the road. It's ugly, yet very unique situation going on in Oakland, as usual. Patience, it's all us Raider fans have left, at this time.
JONES
Put Allen and Palmer in the bomb shelter and nuke it. 2014.
there you go! nuke it! btw, has the trade deadline passed? palmer, mcfadden etc. big names we can get draft picks for - assuming the deadline hasn't passed. forgive my ignorance for not knowing. if it has, oh well, there goes that theory...
i said before that things aren't gonna change unless we get davis' guys out and reggie's guys in here. that whole culture's GOT ta go. might as well start blowing it up now 'cause we're NOT going anywhere... its gonna be a while folks! hang in there!
Ha.. What RT, no clown car?? This was our third clown car of the season, and the only reason it wasn't the fourth was because CP took the team on his back and refused to surrender down 18 last week.
And there's seven games left.
Last year... with nearly the same players, we had, what, three clown cars??
GB, Mia, and KC I'm guessing.
We could easily get blown out at home next Sunday with Brees no doubt licking his chops at our defense.
I'm sorry this annoys you so much Jones, but this coaching staff is not getting it done. If CP wasn't playing at such a high level we could easily have one win right now... the Chiefs.
Its not just the players... this team is much the same as last.
Does this mean I think DA will never be a good coach? NO. He just isn't doing anything right now. And most fans predicted hiring Knapp was a grease fire waiting to happen.
The worst thing is that with CP putting up such good stats it might allow Knapp to keep his job for another year.
Then we get to watch players fresh off the practice squad playing more than one of our most explosive players (Taiwan Jones). He didn't play because he might fumble.
Like a turnover would cost us anything down by three TDs.
Talk about a herd of amateurs...
Oops, thanks for the reminder, Gary. The missing clown car was an oversight (I meant to, then spaced). It's going up right now. This was undeniably a clown car game.
Gary, Allen made it very clear that Jones just ain't getting it done in practise and probably meetings and in his opinion, hasn't earned the playing time. He is the best 'gunner' on the team though. Hey, Gary, imagine if most of the players were playing at a high level, like Palmer, the coaches would look like geniuses, am I right? That's the problem, they can't play at a high level for extended periods of time, they can for spurts, that isn't enough. I'm not going to blame the coaches for a team full of players who can't get the job done. You can blame the coaches for the players inabilities, I won't.
JONES
Position by positon. Huff, avg at best, Branch, avg, Giordano, below avg, Lee/Bartell, avg at best. McClain SUCKS, Wheeler has looked very avg last 2 games, same as Burris. Houston, most improved IMO. Bryant, good at times, Kelly, stupid shit, Shaunessy avg at best, Seymour is DONE.
DHB, should be a #3 WR, Moore, still raw, making many errors, CAN be explosive, Streeter, very raw. McFadden, INJURY, Palmer, been the best player still dummies up though, Myers, can't block a chair, can make some plays. Reece, versatile, probably the O's 2nd best player, Wiz, avg at best, Veldheer, can be dominate but can be beat too, Cooper, ugh, Briesel, ugh, Smith DAMN he sucks. There you have it, now what would you do as HC, if your roster was these players and the other team actually had good players? Daunting task, I would say.
JONES
"Allen made it very clear that Jones just ain't getting it done in practise and probably meetings and in his opinion, hasn't earned the playing time"
Just the opposite:
From the media: “Allen said the Raiders will turn over the running game to second-year back Taiwan Jones and fullback Marcel Reece.”(11/9)
Allen had the media fooled into thinking Jones would play. And Palmer was talking up Jones like he did McFadden earlier in the year... excited for the opportunity.
Why make him your #3 RB then supplant him with your FB and practice squad RB without watching him make a single carry?
It had nothing to do with the fact the Raiders fell behind.
Who cares if he fumbles? Why not get him some game time and see if he can play in the NFL? It's not like the Raiders were going to stage a comeback.
I'm not going to make any excuses for the players or the coaches. As far as I'm concerned, the jury is still out.
There's no valid excuse for this "full regression" as RT called it.
Many hear predicted the Raiders as AFCW Champs. Presumably, that was based on something you saw from the Raiders the last two years plus the infusion of new mgt and coaching this year.
The Raiders are now playing as bad as any period over the last 10 years. So it really doesn’t matter who you want to blame.
That’s what, four embarrassing losses this year, and giving up record-breaking performances to opponents in back-to-back weeks?
Without Palmer, the Raiders would be a complete farce in the NFL right now. He is carrying the Raiders one-dimensional offense... despite Brisel’s one-man wrecking crew performance Sunday.
YOU RAIDER FANS HAVE BEEN TAKING IT UP THE YOU KNOW WHAT FOR YEARS. KEEP BENDING OVER BUT CLOSE YOUR EYES.... HA HA HA HA HA HA
After the non response to the fake fg, I don't see Allen as the answer. I would look at him as a puss if I were a player. My other problem is that none of the players actually responded either. You would think someone would get pissed off enough to punch someone and get tossed. Or even get in harbaughs face after the game. Pussies. I hated sapp but he did it. I also remember Chucky cutting David Dunn the day after he fumbled a punt. Send a message-show you give a rats ass-somebody please?
Speaking of Chucky, I was at the first game he coached vs. the chefs in kc. The Raiders got beat 28-8. A team with not a lot of talent either. Virtually unchanged from the bugel team of the year before. But they played hard the whole game. You could tell that something had happened. I knew at that point things had changed and they indeed had.
Chucky was that change.
What's changed this year? Everything actually but nothing really.
What I can't understand is how a team like the Colts can turn it around in one season with a rookie QB and a rookie HC (who is battling against a life-threatening disease). Yet here we are... 10 yrs of losing and it does not look like it is going to get better anytime soon. What is the difference?
NYR, if you watch Allen's PC after the game, he was asked why JONES didn't play...he tells you straight up why.
JONES
Good point, Anonymous. This has been puzzling for years, spanning numerous coaching regimes, free agents, draft picks and now even ownership and GM.
The Tampa Bay Buccaneers have already won more games this year than last. Schiano has apparently grabbed that team by the throat.
The Rams have already won more games than last year under Fisher.
I won't mention the recent and sudden ascents of the Niners and Broncos...I guess I just did.
Yet with the Raiders, it's been this long, painful climb to eight wins, then staying stuck there for another year, and now sliding backward in the win column.
I guess you could compare us to the Browns and Chiefs, teams that just sputter around.
That's not the Raiders I grew up with. But it's the Raiders we've had for a full decade now.
I say wait until the coaches have something to work with, I laid out the starting roster, who could win with these players? There is not one impact player, other than Palmer, the rest are avg to below avg NFL players. Allen isn't going anywhere, it's the players that will be leaving. Until Allen has something to work with, then it's hard to put the blame on his shoulders. The players have shown their history, they are what they are, they have shown it over the years.
JONES
"Then they have to learn a 'new' way of playing football that Balanda says they are not equipt for."
JONES, that's Mr. BlandaRocked to you.
I think it's pretty clear that "the truth" was with me all along. If you want to learn about football, go back and check my preseason posts.
"10 yrs of losing and it does not look like it is going to get better anytime soon. What is the difference?"
Their rookie QB is not playing like a rookie and he is already a leader on the team. He has playmakers to work with, what does Palmer have? Guys who can't run routes, can't catch and an O-line that is mediocre at best. Then the Raiders fall behind by 2 scores early every game because the Defense can't stop anyone. Playing from behind every game, you aren't going to win many games. The Defense is blitzing, they fail, if they play back, they fail. The Defense failed in a man to man scheme and they are failing in a more modern Defensive scheme. I think it starts to become clear?
JONES
LOL, oh yes master Balanda, I gave you props, something you could never do when you were way out in left field during the Mr.Davis era.
JONES
"The Tampa Bay Buccaneers have already won more games this year than last. Schiano has apparently grabbed that team by the throat."....
They have TALENT, their QB is good, their RB is lights out at this point, their WR's are very dangerous, their D-line is stellar, their O-line had 2nd stringers that were "blocking out the sun" vs the Raiders D-line. They responded to their new coach while the Raider players continue to be non responsive.
JONES
"If you want to learn about football, go back and check my preseason posts"....
And if you want a good laugh, read your posts prior to your preseason stab in the dark.
JONES
I'll listen to the PC later today. I can't doubt Allen's reasoning for not playing Jones. I can only be disappointed in it.
Jones has shown flashes of play-making ability. That's good enough for me, particularly when the score is lopsided and the Raiders are otherwise void of playmakers.
The glarring question for me is; what did they have to lose?
Moving forward, I would expect the Raiders to pull some stops and get other players involved too. Jones at RB, Chekwa, who's still on the practice squad, and maybe even give Pryor some snaps at QB.
If McKenzie & Allen are getting ready to "nuke" the roster, shouldn't they kick some tires first?
The coaches see these players practise every day, a player has to earn playing time. If that player/s is not doing it in practise or isn't going along with what is asked, he shouldn't get playing time. This is how it works from the day anyone plays sports.If the coach has no confidence in a player or that player can't even get his assignments right in practise, then he shouldn't play. From what Allen said in the PC, it sounds like JONES isn't getting it done.
JONES
IMO, Allen was pissed after the game. No sense getting pissed about the fake FG, just have to eat the humble pie and REMEMBER it.
I think he knows deep in his heart that he won't be winning much of anything with this roster. The players probably sense that he is giving up on them and now we see the players giving up. In Allen's PC after yesterdays game, he was repeating the "have to make plays, have to execute". I think he caught himself once and said it is on him to get it to stop. Prior to that, he was, in an indirect way, pointing at the players.
These are not Allen's or McKenzie's type of players, they know it and the players know it...it is a very unique situation in pro sports, hardly, if ever, seen before. I just hope the change coming isn't going to be empty like the 'change' Obummer is bringing, which is no change at all.
JONES
Who should stay Offense:
Palmer, Leinart, Wiz, Veldheer, DMoore, DHB, Streater
Who should stay Defense:
Burris, Wheeler, Carter, Shaughnessy, Bilukidi.
The rest should be dumped. I'm not sold on McFadden, which is why I didn't put him up on the stay list.
Free Agents should we pursue:
Reggie Bush (Mia), Rashard Mendenhall (Pitts), Shonn Greene (NYJ), Cedric Benson (GB) at RB
Greg Jennings GB), Mike Wallace (Pitts) as #1 WR; or Draft Marqise Lee (USC)
OL-Jake Long (Mia), OG-Brandon Moore (NYJ)
NT-Henry Melton (Chi) DE-Cliff Avril (Det)
OLB-Connor Barwin (Houston)
CB-Quentin Jammer (SD)
S-Jairus Byrd (Buf)
This is not counting cap casualty possibilities like Chris Johnson.
I'm not saying we have to get every single one of these guys, but there are things we can do, trade some players for draft picks, etc. But there are some players on this list that we need to give a serious eye to if we are going to be competitive again.
nyraider said...
I'll listen to the PC later today. I can't doubt Allen's reasoning for not playing Jones. I can only be disappointed in it.
Jones has shown flashes of play-making ability. That's good enough for me, particularly when the score is lopsided and the Raiders are otherwise void of playmakers.
The glarring question for me is; what did they have to lose?
Moving forward, I would expect the Raiders to pull some stops and get other players involved too. Jones at RB, Chekwa, who's still on the practice squad, and maybe even give Pryor some snaps at QB.
If McKenzie & Allen are getting ready to "nuke" the roster, shouldn't they kick some tires first?
>>>>
Exactly. At some point shouldn't Reggie step in and tell DA that he needs to get some of the players that are buried on the bench on the field to evaluate who to keep and who to cut this off season?
This looks to me more like the "scholarship program" that drove everybody nuts when Al was running the team.
Is Briesel and Smith REALLY better than Bergstrom?
A dude off the practice squad is better than T. Jones?
This is looking more and more like amateur hour. And I thought everything was supposed to get fixed!
The Raiders are now playing as bad as any period over the last 10 years. So it really doesn’t matter who you want to blame.
>>>>
I agree... and with the best QB we have had in ten years.
How soon before Carson starts calling out the coaches like he did in Cinci?
He was obviously excited to see what T. Jones could do also... what do the coaches say to him... sorry Carson, but Stewart is our guy!! A guy Carson probably never was in the huddle with.
Carson's the one getting his head knocked off because we can't get a running game going... how much longer is he going to be happy with Amateur Hour?
Raider Take said...
Oops, thanks for the reminder, Gary. The missing clown car was an oversight (I meant to, then spaced). It's going up right now. This was undeniably a clown car game.
>>>>
U hate seeing it.. but it is what it is!
"Exactly. At some point shouldn't Reggie step in and tell DA that he needs to get some of the players that are buried on the bench on the field to evaluate who to keep and who to cut this off season?"....
Does it matter? These 3rd stringers need to be evaluated? The 1st stringers can't get the job done but you want 3rd stringers to come in and really get thumped? They are being evaluated and obviously they (mngmnt) don't think they are ready or will ever be ready to play. There is a reason why they are 3rd stringers on a piss poor roster.
If you were watching the game, Bergstrom did come in and play some on Sunday.
"And I thought everything was supposed to get fixed!"...
Obviously the "fix" is going to take longer, the problems run very deep and the purge will have to be complete. It wasn't a tweek here or there, it's a whole new roster by the looks of it. Can't do that in 1 off season with little cap space to work with, only a few low round picks to use.....I misjudged the 'talent' and maybe a lot of us fans did. Can't win without talent, get the talent in and then we can judge, until then, it's a clusterf... .
JONES
I agree with you Nate, just hope McKenzie can sell to some of these F.A's that things will be different in the upcoming years.
JONES
Coaches vs Players the problem?
Bucs, colts, rams all better - 1998 Raiders vs. 1997 Raiders - same talent- different coach. Even look at last year with Hue Jack.
Someone please argue with me
but it seems Allen has left no mark.
I realize the lack of cap space and no picks also inheriting a team that was built on whim for years vs. a plan, all need to be considered - but is is very difficult to sit here and watch, wait and hope.
"What I can't understand is how a team like the Colts can turn it around in one season with a rookie QB and a rookie HC (who is battling against a life-threatening disease). Yet here we are... 10 yrs of losing and it does not look like it is going to get better anytime soon. What is the difference?"
*******************************************
It's the LUCK of the draw my friend.
When Raiders had top overall pick, they got Jamarcus Busto.
Colts got lucky with Andrew Luck.
A franchise QB can go a long way toward healing what ails an organization.
Maybe it's time for Raiders to see what Tyrelle Pryor can do.
Not blaming Palmer for this mess, but at 33 yrs old, Palmer is not the QB of future.
Lets see what Pryor can do in real games.
It sure would beat watching same horror show every week.
It is difficult to watch, I think 'raidertake' had it right, these core players have dive bombed and quit on 3 coaches. It would seem to me, that these players don't really mind losing. The Great Hue Jackson said it at the end of last year, maybe it takes it back to the 'culture' thing. These players liked the cushy environment, that it didn't matter if they lost, the Boss was going to take it out on the HC. Maybe the core got used to their happy go lucky days. Or, maybe they just aren't good players that can't be "coached up".
In St.Louis, the Rams have been very avg, they have a good young QB with a stud RB. Fischer is doing ok, nothing special, at 3-5-1, really?.
Colts have a stud at QB that the team really believes in, they didn't have Manning last year and they mailed in the season, could have even tanked it to get Luck who looks like he will be as good/ maybe better than Manning. Winning close games, while the Raiders lose close ones.
Bucs, look at the weapons they have on the Offense with Martin looking all world. Their Defense is a little suspect, but they can plain outscore them.
Raiders were 1-4 down the stretch last year, the Great Hue Jackson said his players weren't good enough and HE was going to make changes. All those who said "all they needed to do was keep Hue and it was SB bound", it's not true. Before McKenzie came into the picture, Hue Jackson had declared that changes needed to be made. Again, culture pops into my mind. Hue saw it and now Allen is getting a full dose.
As far as Gruden coming in, he took over for a guy who was a good O-line coach, but probably one of the worst HC's in history and Jeff George was the QB = ouch.
JONES
I was not sure about the two victories after the Bye; I wanted to resist the temptation of sighing a premature relief. Having said that ...
I am going to side with Jones with regards to Allen and McKenzie. They do not have much to work with in 2012. Assuming McKenzie starts making changes for the better, it will take at least a couple of seasons to amass the kind of players he wants. Not to mention, he cannot do much until he can get out of the cap hell. We have an interesting situation in that it has taken a decade to turn Rome into an ashtray; it will definitely take longer than a couple of seasons to kick that ashtray!
Does it matter? These 3rd stringers need to be evaluated? The 1st stringers can't get the job done but you want 3rd stringers to come in and really get thumped? They are being evaluated and obviously they (mngmnt) don't think they are ready or will ever be ready to play. There is a reason why they are 3rd stringers on a piss poor roster.
>>>>>
Damn straight it matters! That is if you think a business should pay attention to details. Maybe you think its ok to let the little things slide, like promising T. Jones playing time and then playing a practice squad guy instead during garbage time.
The little things matter... like having a backup long snapper, fer instance.
You think that quality run teams give players the finger like that or something?
I have to admit... I have never seen anyone flip from bitching and moaning about every gawd damn thing you can think of while Al was alive.. to now glossing over obvious fuck ups. What is it? Your continuing hatred of Al, or blind faith in unproven people?
Neither seems normal to me. It almost seems pathological.
I am going to side with Jones with regards to Allen and McKenzie. They do not have much to work with in 2012.
>>>>
So in other words, Stu should have been coach of the year last year?
I'm not buying it.
Its nearly the same team. Well, except having a QB playing at near pro-bowl level this year.
I WANT to drink the DA/Knapp/Tarver Koolade, but it looks more like someone dipped a red crayon in some luke warm water and called it Koolade so far.
Lets see how they coach it up against Drew Brees this week!
lol. pass me that luke warm water-like Koolade!
If you haven’t already, go to Raiders.com and watch DA on Monday.
I remain impressed with Dennis Allen and think he’s accountable. He’s calling like it is. He doesn’t make excuses (and neither should the fans!).
Allen said “the effort is there.”
He also said, “we have enough talent,” so maybe folks should hold off on making plans to nuke the roster. Perhaps a more measured off-season approach is in store.
He did concede, however, that problems have been a combination of talent, scheme and effort. That may sound inconsistent with the quotes above, but his presentation made sense.
He also said that McFadden has been asked for his input regarding plays he’d like to run. IMO, that puts more emphasis on poor line play as the culprit in the running game...
He also responded concisely to a couple in your face kind of questions regarding his contract and if anyone is on the bubble.
Watch the PC.
The 5th string HB is miffed and Gary is in a huff, so he lashes out and says I have psychological/character problems. The reason why I bitched and moaned during the Mr.Davis era, was because it had a long history of the same failures.
Meanwhile, Gary and the like, bent over backwards with insane reasoning as to why Mr.Davis was running the Org as he did. After his passing, the truth came out and it was basically how I had been outlining it for years on here.
Now Anonymous Gary wants to bring back the "witch is dead" routine and pound his little fists all over his highchair table. I have explained the reasons why I won't dump too much on the coaches, Gary. If you can't handle that, then tough tits to you.
JONES
NYR, you need to read between the lines a little. Allen's theme after the game and in this PC is CONSISTENCY, EXECUTION, MENTAL ERRORS. He included everyone because this is what a HC is supposed to do or he will lose the team, if he hasn't already.
It's the same stuff Hue was complaining about last year, Cable the year before. They play well in spurts, then dummy up for spurts and the other team takes the game away during these 'letdowns'. It's their history, it's what they have done for years = the players aren't good enough. He is trying to not throw them under the bus, but he makes it clear what the issues are. If you think he doesn't want these players thrown to the curb, you are dreaming.
He is frustrated that these players are ALWAYS having mental breakdowns, cannot play a full 60 minutes.....I have seen that look in his face many times before with previous HC's..... can't do it , won't do it, can't be done.
JONES
Gary,
If T.Jones hasn't measured up during the practice week in terms of learning the assignments and being accountable, the last thing a HC should do is reward him with playing time.
The message to T.Jones is simple: "get your shit together or you will have a very short career".
You talk about the little details being important. Agree. This also applies to the individual player and mastering his craft.
I'm like most of you in that I would have enjoyed seeing T.Jones get 5-10 carries vs. the Black Birds. However, if he didn't earn the privilege of playing time, I fully endorse DA's decision.
The one thing about T.Jones is that he hasn't established himself or gained traction due to being injured last year and this year. He is playing catch-up and learning to hopefully become a dedicated professional.
It wouldn't surprise me in the least if the message sent to T.Jones was heard loud and clear.
Jones-
True on Bugel vs. Gruden in terms of coaching acumen but that proves my point.
Gruden had Jeff George too and Wade Wilson - he also won 4 games with Donald Hollas at qb.
I'm just not feeling DA. I want to be wrong but don't want to wait 5 years.
Let me take it back. It doesnt prove anything really. Just bringing up a point of interest.
I told myself it would be a challenging season. Rookie coaches and rookie gm facing an impossible situation really. Just really frustrated as we all are and very worried about getting embarrassed vs. brees and manning.
memdf...I was expecting the players to bring their game to a new level, now I see they can't. I was disappointed at first, now it's just play out the season and see what happens in the off season. I think McKenzie did a lot of changing in the Org in one offseason and I can see him doubling that production after this season. As long as there is progress, if progress means dumping the dead weight and bringing in a 'new' breed of players....I can wait. If the team is looking worse again next season, then I will be more critical of the Coaching. At this point, I see it mostly as a player problem and no sense getting twisted over something that has to be done but will need some time. Acceptance is the secret to understanding, I read that in a fortune cookie.
JONES
Pryor is not given the chance to suit up, Taiwan is not a player the coaches trust, curry goes in and gets penalized for unnecessary roughness and gets removed from the game not to be seen again in this game, Moore and Hayward bay are a no show after the second half and Myers gets a concussion, what else can go wrong, it seems to me this crap only happens to "me" to my team how come this shit doesn't happen to other teams, I never watch any other teams play, I can care less about any other teams, I only care about my raiders and it breaks my heart to see all this collapse the way it does
Anon 9:47,
Take a deep breath.
Pryor is a few years away from potentially becoming a back up QB.
Why is he even relevant to the conversation?
T.Jones is a 2nd year 3rd stringer who has been injured and is the critical stage of learning to become a professional.
He isn't a significant player to building the team but a change of pace back player at best.
A. Curry came out over-aggressive and is trying to get his bearings after being gone for nearly a year. Let's see what he is able to do 1 week after getting his first live snaps.
Yes, it is tough being a Raider fan in these difficult times but it is no different than the previous 9y ears which offered very little hope.
The difference in real hope now and the previous 9 years is whether or not you believe that GM McKenzie has the fortitude, vision, and ability to truly rebuild this team.
This season has been far more disappointing than I expected but to toss in the towel now when our GM hasn't had the ammo (salary cap + draft picks) isn't in my cards.
forget routt - he's always sucked but nnamdi? i'd take him back in a heart beat!
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/12/asomugha-could-be-on-his-way-out-of-philly-too/
a bad nnamdi for them is a hell of a LOT better than anyone we have now!
IMO, management won't be looking for nostalgia and trying to bring back former players. Nnamdi is done, he got his pay and he should hang it up. Charles Woodson can still play, he was/is a true stud, I think Nnamdi was overrated (see Stanford Routt) and got a few LARGE contracts out of it. IMO, I don't think Reggie would even think of going there, but hey, been wrong before.
JONES
"IMO, management won't be looking for nostalgia and trying to bring back former players."
Seems like just the opposite; they are ridding the roster of Al Davis' "Combine picks." It's also apparent their talent pool outside of the Raiders roster has mostly consisted of GB castoffs. Hopefully, that gets expanded next offseason.
Jones - I can read between the lines. I saw Allen's hesitation when he said the talent is there. He said (or implied) the roster is the roster. But he also said it's their job to win now, not down the road. That's on the coaches too.
IMO, he said all the right things.
from PFF:
Where’s Wheeler?
The good news for Philip Wheeler is that he’ll have to go some distance to play as poorly as that again. The bad news is that he really was that bad. Looking utterly lost in coverage at times, he allowed a reception on all eight of the passes thrown into his coverage for 88 yards, with 50 of those yards coming after the catch. Adding to the misery were the two penalties he committed. His day could have been even worse had safety Tyvon Branch not saved his blushes. Facing 3rd-and-9 with 4:19 left in the first quarter, the Ravens went after Wheeler on a go route with tight end Ed Dickson. After allowing the big play downfield, Wheeler then switched off, leaving the tight end untouched after he had gone down under his own momentum. Getting back to his feet, Dickson was able to pick up a few extra yards but could have scored had it not been for the tackle by Branch.
Flawless Veldheer
While it was a bad day all round for the Raiders, left tackle Jared Veldheer can take pride in his own individual performance. Veldheer was all but faultless and did what was asked of him in the running game. As a pass blocker, however, he was as dominant as you can be. Shutting out a Ravens’ pass rush that was patchy throughout, Veldheer finished with a perfect Pass Blocking Efficiency Rating of 100.0. The line as a whole performed well with only the usual suspect play of right tackle Willie Smith and three penalties from right guard Mike Brisiel bringing the unit down.
Blogger Calico Jack said...
T.Jones is a 2nd year 3rd stringer who has been injured and is the critical stage of learning to become a professional.
>>>>>
That doesnt explain why a PS player gets 7 carries to Jones' 2, especially after the team leader CP said he was anxious to see what TJ could do before the game.
It just suggests amateurism to me... why would you disagree? I'm curious.
CJ:
It wouldn't surprise me in the least if the message sent to T.Jones was heard loud and clear.
>>>>>
What if the message is THE COACHES DONT KNOW WHAT THE HELL THEY ARE DOING!?
Have you thought of that at ALL?
You can't say that TJ doesn't look focused by his play as a gunner on STs.. just the opposite.
So this is how the coaches reward players? Rewarding a PS player with carries instead? Someone CP has prolly never even seen in the huddle before?
This could start spiraling out of control quickly folks.
Hopefully CP can keep it together... I don't see anything to suggest the coaches can. Just the opposite actually.
The penalties are coming back, and the over achieving pickup players like Wheeler are regressing.
Lets see if Allen can make me believe otherwise vs NO at home this week.
The smart money will be on another clown car. This team looks like one of the worst in the NFL right now.. despite having a top ten QB. Thats actually pretty tough to do. Sorry if this is not obvious to you.
NYR, I think you pulled a 'boner'. Please reread the quote you supplied from my earlier post.
As far as the GB myth, the only players to bring in at that time of year is 'castoffs'. McKenzie knew those castoffs better than from other teams, so it only makes sense? Of course it will "expand".
Gary, get down from your highchair and quit crying over the # 4 HB on the depth chart. Maybe Jones is on Allen's whipping post, obviously he has done or is doing something to piss off the HC. But you read into it as "the sky is falling".
Palmer is a top 10 QB because it's him, but the rest of the players suck because of the coaches? Players are going back to racking up penalties because of the coaches? Wheeler has a couple of poor games and it is on the coaches? When do the players become accountable? They are the ones on the field, they are the ones making mistakes, are the coaches doing that?
JONES
Jones - I see it. It must have been early in the morning here.
Agreed wrt to the castoffs and potentially expanding the talent pool later.
I think Gary and I are in agreement about Tiawan Jones. The coaches appear to have demoted the guy off the depth chart at RB despite all the build-up and anticipation of seeing this kid perform by Palmer, probably other key players on the team, and the fans.
That move has bait and switch written all over it.
Reece and Stewart aren't going to light any fires at RB this Sunday (or probably any Sunday). So what's the harm in giving Jones some touches?
Otherwise, we can probably just expect another Carson Palmer showcase event.
Jones-
Thanks for talking me off the ledge. I once took the lucky numbers I got in a fortune cookie and played them at the roulette table -
5 winning spins in a row.
I shall accept and then hope to understand.
Gary, get down from your highchair and quit crying over the # 4 HB on the depth chart. Maybe Jones is on Allen's whipping post, obviously he has done or is doing something to piss off the HC. But you read into it as "the sky is falling".
>>>>
Not yet. If you think the answer is Stewart... and that DA has a mysterious whipping post that even CP isn't aware of, then I think I am closer to seeing major problems than your sudden rose-colored glasses perception.
Coaches playing petty games like that is what you hear about in high school.
Give the dude with the most potential to WIN the damn ball.
Or at least let him prove he can't handle it.
The only thing being proven now is DA has some sort of agenda issues.
BTW... DA said the responsibility lies with him. Why would do you disagree so strongly, Jones?
That's the only thing he has been right about since he got the job thus far, IMO.
"Taiwan has had a lot of injuries this year and had some ball security issues," Allen said. "We have to know when he goes in the game, he's going to know what to do and he's going to protect the football and he's got to be able to stay healthy.
"So those are things that we are looking at and as he proves that he can do those things, then he'll get more playing time."
>>>>
My follow-up question would have been... "What difference would a turn over make during a blowout?"
My guess is he is embarrassed because someone forgot to put him in (best case scenario) and he made up some obvious bull shit story about injuries and ball security. Again... if ball security is such an end all and be all concern... WHY HAVE ADAMS FIELDING PUNTS????? And T Jones is no longer injured.
Taiwans response:
Told of Allen's comments, Jones seemed genuinely surprised and maybe, a little hurt. But he did not lash out. Jones grew introspective.
"If that's the issue," he said, "then my job is to earn their trust."
...sounds to me if Taiwan is in DA's dog house for any specific reason, DA hasn't even bothered to tell him about it.
What is this? Freshman girls volleyball coaching?
SCAR
Drive by posting,,,
I still have only watched the first half of game, as my daughters birthday was on sunday, and so I missed the 2nd half.
I dont really want to comment until I watch the whole game...
Cheers folks
SCAR
Like Jack wrote, if you ever played organized football at any level, you know you have to earn your playing time. If a kid from the practise squad is getting more reps than JONES....what does it tell you?
Gary says JONES has more POTENTIAL, there is that word again, JONES runs the ball in a dangerous fashion, he reminds me of DHB in his 'awkward' days. Sure he is fast, he runs 'high' and his vision is not wide. He could get hurt, I saw that, IMO, in his few runs this year.
Did you ever think that Allen/Knapp wanted Reece because he can run the ball, be an extra big man and make blocks in pass protection? Or as Allen alluded to, JONES not knowing his assignments? Why are you guys crying over treatment of a 3-5th stringer....funny Gary is calling me out for being off kilter, yet he is pounding that highchair with all his might, non stop. Time for a new topic?
I would respect you 2 more if you just continued to sling Knapp all the time. This JONES thing is getting a little absurd.
JONES
memdf, did you keep the cash or blow it playing without any more fortune cookies? Hope you kept the dough. Let this be a lesson to all of you out there....if you really want some wisdom and lucky numbers...eat chinese food.
JONES
The HC has to say the responsibilty lies within himself, that's what a team guy does. But, you could see it on his face and hear it in his voice that he was thinking of saying something else, you know, kind of half hearted.
On the other hand, the Great Hue Jackson threw the responsibility on the players when he blasted them in his last PC after being beaten by SD at home. And that could of been one of the reasons why he was fired. But that gets totally ignored by the "hate the coaches" crew.
Why can't these coaches make a contending team out of avg to below avg roster and a culture of giving up and losing? Why can't these players play at a high level for 60 minutes and 16 games a year? Why the same characteristics of last years team and years before that, inconsistent, lapses in focus, quitting, blown assignments, lack of football IQ at the most important times etc? Shit, it must be the coaching, yup, all sure signs of coaching problem. Fire the coach, keep the players, bring back Hue and the Raiders will be on the cusp of greatness, am I right?
JONES
I like that Allen is a team guy and will shoulder at least some of the blame. I like that he repeatedly says they are looking at the scheme and how they can tailor plays to player strengths, ala Darren McFadden. This is really what I expect from coaching. If the results of his hard work dictate replacing most of the roster, then I'm ok with that too.
Re: Tiawan Jones, I base my opinion on my own observations, which go back to preseason because Jones has been injured or otherwise has not been given real game time. He seemed electric, and potentially quicker and faster than McFadden.
Perhaps he is a bit raw but, again, there's not much risk in playing the kid when you're down by 30 points. There's really no excuse not to play him. Injury is no longer a concern, and ball security is a lame excuse at this junction... with the Raiders pretty much out ot the playoff race but desparate to find a running game (with their top two backs injured!).
If Jones is a fumbler, Allen can shut up the fan base quickly by just putting him in the game.
NYR, do you really think Allen is going to run the team based on what the fan base thinks? Are you kidding? You have no idea of the concept of coaching, obviously. If a player doesn't know his asssignments, as Allen hinted, he isn't going on the field. If he still doesn't know the basics of holding on to the ball and runs in a fashion that will get him hurt, he won't be on the field, doesn't matter if his name is Bo Jackson.
JONES is fast, it takes more and Allen is demanding more from him. Until JONES shows he can do the job in at least practise/meetings, he'll get some time. Why is it so hard for basic facts like these to sink into the "fan bases" heads? Have you ever played organized sports, NYR?
JONES
Earning playing time -- what a revolutionary coaching concept.
I don't understand..why if Taiwan is not trusted to carry the ball when the game is completelly out of reach, why is he not cut and pick somebody else to come in and help, maybe a line man, a wide-out or whomever that can come and help, obviously we need the help.
Anon 7:09 -
I will tell you why T. Jones hasn't been cut. He is a 2nd year player who has been injured both seasons who has the potential (M.Jones favorite word!) and athleticism to become a contributor in the near future.
Until Jones avoids inuries and becomes a trusted RB, he is 1 of 53men. In the meantime, he is a vaulable member of the Special Teams unit.
Judging by DA's PC, no one has given up on T.Jones but the ball is in his court to earn increased responsibilities.
Why on earth there is so much discussion on a late round, 3rd-4th string RB is beyond me.
Clearly the Raiders have much bigger problems to solve than a guy who at best is a change of pace back at top level.
Jones - you are quick to jump on anything I say. You don't much respect my right to an opinion, do you? I never said Allen needs to, or should coach based on what the fans want. I merely said putting Jones in for an extended look would shut up the fans and their opinion about Jones (one way or another).
I strongly believe that Jones deserves a long hard look at RB. I also believe it's a farce to play Reece and a scout team player ahead of Jones, who has shown flashes of tremendous ability. He certainly knows enough of the playbook to be involved.
Raiders just completed the worst back-to-back performances in their NFL history. They are 3-6 on the season and hanging on a cliff of despair.
What is unreasonable about seeing what talent you have on your team?
You are unflappable in your crusade that everything the coaches do is righteous.
Here's a newsflash. If the Raiders continue on their current "step-on-their-own-foot" path for the remainder of the season, there's a strong possibility there will be coaching changes, i.e., at least on the coordinantor and assistant levels.
"You are unflappable in your crusade that everything the coaches do is righteous."...
I just don't see that beating down the coaching staff over not playing a 3rd-5th stringer as a starter is warranted. Talk about a "crusade".
If you think the coaches job will be in jeopardy because of not playing JONES = purely ridiculous. McKenzie isn't going to knee jerk, for the 100th time......Allen will be staying, players will be leaving. No matter how much the fans "crusade" for a coaching change, doesn't mean shit to McKenzie or Allen.
Looks to me like you want the Org to be run in the same manner as the last regime. Keep blaming the coaches and give the players cuddles and free rides.
JONES
2015.
If you think the coaches job will be in jeopardy because of not playing JONES = purely ridiculous. McKenzie isn't going to knee jerk, for the 100th time......Allen will be staying, players will be leaving. No matter how much the fans "crusade" for a coaching change, doesn't mean shit to McKenzie or Allen.
>>>>
We all know this coaching staff isn't going anywhere except for maybe Knapp...and from everything I have seen about Allen, I'd gauge that at maybe a 20% probability.
He doesn't seem to give a flying flip what anyone thinks about anything.
But I hope you are right.... if this turns into a KC like fiasco where the Raiders leave one coaching staff for another that is worse (TWICE actually for KC)... we will be the laughing stock of football for at least 3 more years.
I don't know if I can handle it.
Allen has to start getting BETTER sometime soon... could we at least agree with this?
A team playing at least as well as last year before years end?? It IS still the same core players.
Why on earth there is so much discussion on a late round, 3rd-4th string RB is beyond me.
>>>>
Really?
The number one and two went down and we are getting embarrassed on the field with ZERO running game.
Cmon CJ.
2016
"A team playing at least as well as last year before years end?? It IS still the same core players."...
Still clinging to that one, hey Gary? 1-4, 4-4 before that...in between, they had a 3 game win streak. the Great Hue Jackson SAID HE WAS GOING TO MAKE MANY PLAYER CHANGES. Hue KNEW TOO, don't make me go 'Mike'.
Gary, you sound like Cable, only you take it even farther, "8-8, we are on the cusp of greatness". The late Mr.Davis, would have fired your ass for the comment.
JONES
"The number one and two went down and we are getting embarrassed on the field with ZERO running game."...
So throw in a guy who is suspect on his assignements, can't hang on to the ball and gets plastered to the turf because he runs wide open. Keep pounding those fists, Anonymous Gary.
JONES
"2016".....
We'll see you then, OTB.
JONES
New take is up, and it's about Taiwan. I suppose I'm pouring gasoline on a fire, but hey, it's the news of the day around here.
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