The Buck Stops Where?
So, who's to blame for this grease fire known as the 2012 Oakland Raiders?
Answer: The players, the coaches, the GM and ownership.
Let's tackle the coaching question first. Consider a parallel universe that would have allowed us to hire Bill Belichick or Joe Bugel as our head coach this season, with the roster being the same.
Do you think the results would be different with Belichick leading the Raiders or Bugel leading the Raiders? Of course they would.
If we can agree that different coaches would get different results out of these same players, no matter how much these players might stink, then we must agree that our current coach bears responsibility for our current results.
Now, our head coach was hired by the GM. And the GM was hired by the owner...So when Mark Davis says that he's mortified, and that the chain of responsibility ultimately stops with him, he's entirely correct.
Here at Raider Take, however, we've had some curious role reversals among our faithful community. Some who mainly blamed management (ie: owner, GM, coaches) for our ills over the years are now blaming the players, while some who mainly blamed the players are now blaming management.
But here's where management gets a bit of a pass. Yes, the roster is half full of "new" players, but the core of the roster was inherited. Look at Palmer and virtually all of our skill position players, not to mention starters like Seymour, Kelly, Huff, Wiz, Veldheer, Carlisle, McLain, Houston, Branch, Giordano, etc.
I mean, come on. Let's not pretend that this is Reggie McKenzie's roster. Every new regime must deal with inheriting players. Not every new regime is immediately ensnared in salary cap hell with a bare cupboard in the draft.
The 2012 Raiders should be better than they are right now. That is a failure of the current management regime. But these players were never going to become a great unit, despite the fact that we went into salary cap hell and draft purgatory to get them. That is a failure of the previous management regime. And these players have continually proven unable to play fundamental football. That is a failure of the players themselves.
So the buck stops not here, not there, but everywhere right now.
The benefit of the doubt remains on the side of Mark Davis and Reggie McKenzie (and to a lesser degree, Dennis Allen). They may not get a full pass for this year's debacle, but we owe them time, and they will get it
Many of the players will not.
Answer: The players, the coaches, the GM and ownership.
Let's tackle the coaching question first. Consider a parallel universe that would have allowed us to hire Bill Belichick or Joe Bugel as our head coach this season, with the roster being the same.
Do you think the results would be different with Belichick leading the Raiders or Bugel leading the Raiders? Of course they would.
If we can agree that different coaches would get different results out of these same players, no matter how much these players might stink, then we must agree that our current coach bears responsibility for our current results.
Now, our head coach was hired by the GM. And the GM was hired by the owner...So when Mark Davis says that he's mortified, and that the chain of responsibility ultimately stops with him, he's entirely correct.
Here at Raider Take, however, we've had some curious role reversals among our faithful community. Some who mainly blamed management (ie: owner, GM, coaches) for our ills over the years are now blaming the players, while some who mainly blamed the players are now blaming management.
But here's where management gets a bit of a pass. Yes, the roster is half full of "new" players, but the core of the roster was inherited. Look at Palmer and virtually all of our skill position players, not to mention starters like Seymour, Kelly, Huff, Wiz, Veldheer, Carlisle, McLain, Houston, Branch, Giordano, etc.
I mean, come on. Let's not pretend that this is Reggie McKenzie's roster. Every new regime must deal with inheriting players. Not every new regime is immediately ensnared in salary cap hell with a bare cupboard in the draft.
The 2012 Raiders should be better than they are right now. That is a failure of the current management regime. But these players were never going to become a great unit, despite the fact that we went into salary cap hell and draft purgatory to get them. That is a failure of the previous management regime. And these players have continually proven unable to play fundamental football. That is a failure of the players themselves.
So the buck stops not here, not there, but everywhere right now.
The benefit of the doubt remains on the side of Mark Davis and Reggie McKenzie (and to a lesser degree, Dennis Allen). They may not get a full pass for this year's debacle, but we owe them time, and they will get it
Many of the players will not.
posted by Raider Take at 7:17 AM
84 Comments:
Excellent take, Take. Intellitruth.
SCAR
Well said Raidertake.
When it comes to the players, I just ask myself,,,"where are the leaders?;Where are the players saying hop on my back? Getting in faces of teammates that aren't pulling their weight?"
When it comes to coaching, I do see mistakes coming from the coaches. Players play, but coaching counts. The cupboard in my opinion is bare, but Dennis Allen does not get a pass in one very key area. Dennis Allen is a coach with a defensive backround. The ONE thing that Dennis
Allen MUST improve is the defense. I Have GOT to see improvement on the defense or in my opinion, the failure of the Raiders players so far this season also becomes a failure of Dennis Allen.
I am not in Alameda during the week. I am not in the locker room before the game, at half time, and after the game, so I cannot say with any conviction what I am about to say, but it seems like there is very little effort from the Head coach to PERSUADE his team to play harder, smarter, with fire in their bellies, or more accurately that the method that Dennis Allen is employing is unsuccessfull...
SCAR
Put yourself in Allen's position....he wants to implace what he knows as HC, it starts from Day 1 when he was hired. They play preseason, coaches goes over the film with the players pointing out mistakes and what needs to be done instead. They start playing Reg season games and the same players keep making the same mistakes.
Every week the coaches go through the film pointing out errors, telling the players that they can't do this or need to do that. They practise the designs and scenarios for the upcoming week. They have made it clear what their assignments are in film study and on the practise field.
The game is played on Sunday and the HC is stunned at the same mistakes over and over. He is stunned at the lack of leadership on the team. He is stunned by the players inability to put in a full 60 min game. HC knowing that these are not the players he wants, confides to the GM that these players cannot pick up the basics, the players are from an alternate universe and cannot be trusted to carry out their assignments.
GM's hands are tied until the end of the season. HC knows he is stuck with these players until the end of the season. As the season continues, the HC loses faith in the players, the players recognize it and understand that they are not going to be in Oakland much longer. So, we see both the players and the coaches playing out the season, basically giving up on each other.
As we saw with the complete cleansing of the CB position because "we needed an upgrade at that position", Allen and McKenzie are not happy with the left over core from the last regime, benching of Taiwan, McClain, McFadden mailing it in etc. Throwing the coaches under the bus for this scenario, I'm not going to do it.
This is a transition from what it used to be, to what it's going to be and that transition can't happen unless the coaches have players they can trust and are on the same page. That isn't going to happen with these core players. They have shown their history, not much heart, quitting when it gets too tough, accepting losing, unable to carry out their assignements for 60 mins etc.
They did it to Hue too. Quitting on the new regime before season 1 is even over and excusing the players and trying to suggest they are playoff material....foget about it.
JONES
I'm appalled by the lack of leadership this team continues to show.
I'm appalled by being able to predict what assignment the players on both sides of the ball are going to blow and when.
I'm appalled that the coaches have yet to get into someone's face about it during the game.
It seems to me, and has for awhile, that these players need to be motivated. This is where Hue was consistent and successful last year. Players did not quit on him last year. Injuries hit us, and in the last quarter of the season, we picked up a QB who hadn't played for almost a full season, and expected him to come out firing. It didn't happen; Palmer was not football ready when he joined us. Yes, he was in shape, but he was not football ready. That's is what killed us last year.
2 weeks ago, DA told the team not to give up on each other. Why? Because they gave up on each other. That is where we stand now. We will not win another game this season if this is the case. If it is not the case, then we will run the table. If some have quit and others have not, we may win one or two.
I don't think we win another game this season, and come out with the #2 or #3 draft pick. We make trades to get into the first round, and pick up more in the second round. Then we cut the quitters. I'm back to my monicker for the Raiders; it's not longer "Just win, baby!" It is "Just prove it, baby!"
I'm disgusted, but I'm not quitting on this team. JUST PROVE IT, BABY!
Let's look at it this way.
Rolando Mclain played poorly for HC, Tom Cable.
Mclain played poorly for HC, Hue Jackson.
Mclain is playing poorly for HC, Dennis Allen.
Now, what should Raiders do ?
Bring in yet another HC for Mclain to play poorly for, or, replace Mclain ?
I think the answer is clear.
The Raiders problem is that their roster is full of Rolando Mclain's, that need to go.
00...or how bout this way, if Jamarcus Russell was QB, would it be the coaches fault that he would be playing like crap? Would it be the coaches fault for "not coaching him up"?
Champions have to have the talent and the HEART to succeed. If the heart isn't there, the talent doesn't mean shit. Half hearted is what I would call the players on this roster. They have proven that over time.
They had a chance to start fresh, with a new regime, to give it their all.....they quit in game 2 vs the Dolphins. And they call themselves professionals? More like spoiled kids who quit when it doesn't go their way.
JONES
OakTown hasn't had a really decent QB since Gannon. Sorely missing the leadership and talent of Timmy Brown, too. I am jaded by yesteryear, indeed, but it also makes it much easier for me to accept the mush that is playing right now. it's just the way it is, and, hopefully, this year, and maybe next, will bring us a trophy. In 2016. Or much sooner!
I'm liking New England, especially if they beat up the Donkeys in the snow, and then the Giants at the show.
Now you can all yell at me for mentioning another team. All-Caps and everything.
Cheers.
...Take, I don't think it's about stopping the buck, but more about investing the buck more wisely, and allowing it to grow like Gold, and not shock, like Stock.
(GO OakTown Spoilers! ~Finish STRONG, ...somehow. It's "statement" time.)
JONES,
We could continue. How about...
Mcfadden, hurt for Cable.
Hurt for Jackson.
Hurt for DA.
It never ends with this team.
The roster is a laughingstock.
00...Tom Kelly blew his gap assignments with Cable/Hue/now......Seymour had 1 good game a year with Cable/hue/can't even say now.....Routt was a penalty and toast machine under Cable....Safeties couldn't tackle and would blow coverage with Cable..... the O-line did look better with Cable.....WR's have been a joke since Callahan...TE, can make a few plays but can't run block.. since Casper...Haven't had a good LB since Romo....Reece is a player, Palmer is getting tired, like the engine in a unrestored 'muscle car'. Other than those 2, it's slim pickens.
JONES
Man, there's some wild speculation going on here. The “quitter theory” sounds very convenient but where’s the proof?
The players and coaches haven’t quit, and certainly not universally, as suggested. That’s ridiculous. The first sign of that, Mark Davis should clear the freakin’ building.
”Put yourself in Allen's position....he wants to implace what he knows as HC, it starts from Day 1 when he was hired.”
Not sure I know what that means, but Allen didn’t know anything about being a HC on Day 1. That’s part of what makes this a learning process for him.
I agree Allen deserves at least another 1-2 years, and a better roster, but I can’t pretend the coaching has been Grade A. Plenty of blame to go around. Get over it!
Jones, Just to be clear regarding your point that Gruden was “elevated to success by a core nucleus of veteran players like Gannon, Rice, R. Woodson, Romanowski, and Garner”…
The 12-4 team in 2000, (which was probably our most complete and balanced team during Grudens tenure) was void of all of those players you mentioned with the exception of Gannon. They didn't come along until 01' or 02'. Remember the 2000 team wasn't substantially better on paper than the 2012 Raiders and heading into the season, none of the experts had us finishing on top or even competing for the AFC West.
So I have a hard time buying that Gruden was "elevated" by being surrounded by so much veteran talent. He was part of changing a culture around and getting more out of a group he had... which is what separates great coaches from the pretenders. Put any of our recent cast of characters (Bugel, Turner, Shell, Cable) at the helm and that 2000 team probably goes 9-7. Why continue to underestimate the importance of coaching and leadership at this level?
Look at what Turner has done in SD with a once highly talented roster? Think Belichek would have hoisted the trophy in SD a few times with all that talent from 07'-10'? Conversely, why does New England continue to win year in and year out? stars like Mulroney, Green-Ellis, Woodhead, Welker, Branch, Edelmen, Ridley? Think of the success they’ve had with this group of marginal skill players? Would these guys have a job on most teams around the league? Hardly. They’re in the right system with the right culture and leadership in place.
Conversely, would guys like Dmac, Moore, Reece, Palmer excel in New England? Likely. The point is that personnel is only part of the argument... schemes, game time coaching, adjustments, culture, leadership, all are equally important ingredients in the recipe for success. I'm continually surprised by how much you appear to discount them.
Coach is staying, players are leaving...get over it.
JONES
"Jones, Just to be clear regarding your point that Gruden was “elevated to success by a core nucleus of veteran players like Gannon, Rice, R. Woodson, Romanowski, and Garner"......"
I wrote that? Or is that just a summary of yours? Using quotations, usually what you write as the quote, has to be an actual quote. Nice try, never wrote that.
"The point is that personnel is only part of the argument... schemes, game time coaching, adjustments, culture, leadership, all are equally important ingredients in the recipe for success. I'm continually surprised by how much you appear to discount them.".....
You haven't been paying attention, I gave you the reason why it's gone down the shit rope. Your accusations are very general and rooted in anger towards myself...if you want to shoot straight, fine, if you want to play "you said" when I didn't, game over.
JONES
N.E. fan?...."why does New England continue to win year in and year out? stars like Mulroney, Green-Ellis, Woodhead, Welker, Branch, Edelmen, Ridley? Think of the success they’ve had with this group of marginal skill players?"...
They always have a very good O-line and a guy they call Tom Brady. Brady can make REC's look very good. Their Defense can usually keep a score below what Brady will score. I would take N.E.'s "marginal players" over the Raiders, what do you think? I bet Allen could actually depend on those players to give him 60 minutes on Sunday....unlike the crew that are now the Oakland Raiders.
JONES
That’s a great take RT. Thank you for bringing balance to the force of RaiderTake and spreading the blame around appropriately. I agree with you that Davis, Mckenzie, and DA get a pass for trying to muddle through a tough and delicate situation. I’ll stand in their corner for a few more seasons in the spirit of consistency and in hopes that meaningful change is on the way.
This does not however explain why we can’t expect better performances week in and week out with this group of players. I realize the cupboard is pretty lean in terms of overall talent but I watched us be reasonably competitive in the majority of our games over the last two years with an inferior roster. This has me concerned about our overall potential with this staff.
I really like where you were headed with the Bugel/Belichek comparison… for those who don’t think quality coaching and properly implemented systems can overcome big deficiencies in talent, the Patriots are the poster child. I watch these guys a lot on Sunday Ticket and continue to be amazed at the production they get out of guys like Welker, Branch, Woodhead, Ridley, and Edelmen. Sure they have Brady, but these guys operate at such a high level of efficiency week in and week out that there is clearly something larger at play there.
This keeps leading me back to my biggest concern which is Knapp. I just can’t say I’ve seen anything that resembles an NFL offense. 1st downs are waaaay to hard to come by and production in the redzone (which is where games are ultimately won or lost these days) is like a blast from the Tom Walsh era. I’ve seen DMAC, Reece, and Moore perform at a high level. WE were a top 5 offense just 1.5 short years ago!! We hung 59 on the Donkeys. And Palmer has certainly shown he’s an upgrade from Campbell… the only explanation left is that the system and the script is broken.
Its easy to expose the defense after the last few performances, but that is overshadowing how bad we are on the offensive side as well. Sure we’ve gotten behind, but we’ve had PLENTY of possessions in between which aren’t leading to points or even field position to keep the game close. Two stats that reek of poor coaching and game planning… scoring on both the opening drive of the game and the 3rd quarter. Well, in those 22 possessions we’ve amassed exactly 4 scoring drives… One of which was set up by a pick in KC. In that possession, we promptly went 3 and out and settled for a short 30 yd FG.
Point is that this is an offensive league and we just aren’t capable of threatening anyone consistently. I hope DA and co. are willing to take a hard, honest look at this Knapp character this off season. I have great concern that our offensive futility will get overlooked by the myriad of other problems facing the organization and this guy Knapp will have us fumbling around in the dark for years to come.
Keep the good stuff coming
5er
Really Jones? You never wrote that Gruden was elevated with the help of veteran players like Woodson, Romanowski, Garner, Rice, Gannon etc.?
Try reviewing gameday thread from Cincinnati game... Looks to me like that’s exactly what was said, hence the quotes. Not playing any "you said games" or making general accusations... just pointing out what I thought was a specific discrepancy in the point you were making in this case. If I misinterpreted your point then fine, that’s a different argument. I'm certainly guilty of it from time to time... especially when it comes to email communication… but here was your take...
JONES said...
27 players that had to fill out a team that had no cap space. You guys are pretty damn dumb. The core starters, the players the team needs to depend on, are the left overs from Mr.Davis' team. Coaches are staying, players are leaving....keep crying though.
Gary, why don't you mention that Gruden got a huge influx of top veteran players that helped him get passed the amazing 8-8 record? Woodson, Romanowski, Garner, Rice, Gannon etc. It's not like Gruden had a roster was full of dogs, like this roster. He had PLAYERS, with top talent, playmakers, guys who could get the job done and could show the others how to get it done. This roster has no top players and no leaders, it's full of quitters and guys with low football IQ's.
JONES
5er
Everything that goes into a winning team should be given the proper weight and context.
Talented staters - Your corps group of impact players and leaders on your roster and built through the draft and free agency.
{right now excluding our K and P, we have really no elite player on the roster}
Solid depth - A key backbone to a successful team in a violent, injury prone sport. "Next Man Up" is no joke in the NFL. These are 2nd tier free agents, waiver wire pick-ups, late round picks, and developed players over time.
{we currently have guys in the 2nd slot of our depth chart who should be #3 or out of the league}
Culture - An attitude, vision, standard, and expectation that is enacted throughout management and permeates in the locker room, practice field, game day from top down. This key ingredient takes strong leaders, time, and stability.
{who are our leaders besides the obvious choices of Palmer and DA?}
Coaching - Systems, technicians, communicators, and inspiring leaders of men to get every last drop of every player from 1 to 53 coming together to put the pieces together.
{we've got new systems, players that don't fit the system, and a coaching staff trying to find their footing with a roster short on talent}
I'm calling this season the perfect shit storm whereby everythig is misaligned and unique circumstances has us taking major strides backwards.
Wow, that's well described CJ. I think the point regarding depth and the necessity for next man up in todays NFL is really on target (and is often overlooked by the average fan and the majority of the media).
Great point on getting the most out of your roster too... I certainly don't think this roster is capable of a legitimate playoff team, but I also don't think its anywhere near as bad as its looked over the past 4 weeks. Shoud we call this "getting the least out of your roster?"
Regardless, as you said, the perfect shit storm is upon us. Is it August yet? Can't wait for preseason.
5er
Is this your "you got me" moment? Still isn't the quote I gave.
Yes you are right, they weren't on the 2000 team, still, much more talent on that team compared to this version of the Raiders, do you agree?
Like with your favorite team, the Patriots, Gruden had a very good QB who was at the top of his game. Gruden and Gannon were a perfect fit, and a hugely talented QB, much like Brady and Billy.
It definitely takes 2 to tango, the players have to feel wanted and believed in and the coaches need to believe in the players, does it look like this in Oakland?
The 2000 Raiders had a good Offense and a decent Defense and were riding on a wave of Gruden coexisting with Mr.Davis. The talent on the 2000 team is still much superior to the talent that is on this Raider team, do you dispute that?
JONES
Talent is relative. It's a combination of factors. It just ain't clickin', plain and simple.
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It's hard to imagine the coaches, particularly the two coordinators, aren't at risk of losing their jobs after the performances we've seen this year.
This week's game at home against the lowly Browns might be very telling. We know we can't be competitive with talented teams, but can we even keep up with the bottom dwellers of the league.
I wouldn't assume the organization has collectively washed its hands of responsibility and just pinned everything on the players. That type of thinking leads to complacency, and that's usually when unexpected things happen.
You know ZBS can work in Oakland. It did with Gruden and Callahan, and we had a hell of a running game with Garner/Wheatley.
So here's the thing. Both Garner and Wheatley were bruisers.
Garner usually ran outside, and Wheatley up the middle; and both out of the backfield for passes. But the difference in them and what we have is that both created their own holes in the run game.
I like Reece, I think he is a Wheatley type player; a big bruiser back with soft hands. Let's build around him and Palmer (for now).
The other problem we have is the difference between athletic vs football smart. We have an over abundance of athletic guys; but they aren't very football smart. There are a few exceptions to that on our team (Reece, Wheeler, Palmer, Miles, WizII).
If we want to run ZBS offense, we need people on our O-line that are football smart, and a Captain on our O-line (Barrett Robbins was the last).
The same defensively. If we want to play zone, blitz, and mix schemes; then we need players that are football smart on our D-line and Linebacker positions.
If we look at athleticism, then they need to show some football smarts as well (RGIII, Victor Cruz, Ray Rice, Arian Foster, etc). Those are special players. The problem that we are facing is we had a GM who thought athleticism alone made you a special player. Time to cut the stupid, and get football smart.
JUST PROVE IT, BABY!
"So, who's to blame for this grease fire known as the 2012 Oakland Raiders?"
Al Davis, of course.
Mr.Davis did leave the team strapped by the cap, Mr.Davis did leave the roster full with way overpaid mediocre talent. Mr.Davis did leave the team in a mess because of the way he did his business, no one else in pro sports ran a team the way he did, so it had to be overhauled.
This team is also a victim of circumstance....when in the history of pro sports, has the Owner/GM/HC/H.Scout etc all pass away in a middle of a season? When has an Org had to replace an Owner/GM/HC/H.Scout and have a roster full of players that do not match any other team's style of playing the game?
So we see the new regime is more conventional in it's approach while parts of the team are still stuck in the less conventional approach. We are seeing that it isn't a good mix....would you disagree with any of the above statements?
Once the team has stripped itself of the old mentality by ridding those still stuck in it, THEN the new regime can be judged, IMO. To ask the HC to make champs out of what was left to him, is unreasonable. To exlude Mr.Davis from having his part in what is happening now is denial. Yes he has passed, but his remains of the team are still present.
JONES
"...would you disagree with any of the above statements?"
All sounds reasonable. Now add a rookie owner, rookie GM, rookie HC and rookie DC, and you have the potential makings of a grease fire.
"To ask the HC to make champs out of what was left to him, is unreasonable.
Fair enough. But why is also too much to ask a HC to field a team that can be competitive, and not fall from some degree of sustained mediocrity back down to the very bottom of the league, again?!
Is there anyone here that’s not worried the (3-8) Browns might stomp on the Raiders this Sunday? Why should we accept the Browns are possibly a better team than the Raiders?
Already gone over that NYR, get over it.
JONES
McClain is reporting on Facebook that he is no longer a Raider. Goods riddance! Don't let the door hit ya on the way out!
The Browns are 3-3 in their last 6 games with victories over Cincy, SD, and Pitt.
The Raiders have been been blown out the past 4 games.
With the grease fire / shit storm on our hands, the Browns game will be a stern test.
"nyraider said...
Man, there's some wild speculation going on here. The “quitter theory” sounds very convenient but where’s the proof?"
If this 'rumor' of McClain is true....he is just 1, ahhh, the culture of what was is still lurking in the Raiders Locker room. IF it's true, maybe I can say "told you so"?
JONES
The rumors of McClain quitting on the team are troubling to say the least.
Going forward into 2013 and beyond, the last thing the Raiders can do is waste valuable high 1st round picks on players with serious character flaws such as JaBustus and McClain.
2016. Be Patient. We also have to wait for the Broncos to be bad, and keep the Chiefs that way. I never worry about the Bolts.
...or, a SER-I-OUS step-up, because P. Manning will be better next year.
...or, a SER-I-OUS step-up, because P. Manning will be better next year.
Just watched Allen's Presser....he looks agitated when asked about McClain, by his demeanor, I would guess something went on between them.
I couldn't help but think that Allen got a real wake up call walking into the situation he did. It would seem he wasn't expecting it to go like this, trial by fire, this is going to make him a better coach. He will be in Oakland next year and this experience this year is going to have his eyes wide open. Which in turn will benefit the Raiders next year.
JONES
No question Allen is learning on the job. If McClain is gone, that shows the Raiders are proactive in getting this corrected now, as opposed to next year. I would applaud such a move.
I watched Allen's Wed PC. He seems upbeat and presents a good approach; telling the players we're 0-0 and a 5-game stretch starts now. He emphasized, like he does every week, the players effort is there.
So, Jones, unless you're calling Allen a liar, nobody is quitting.
McClain is a punk. The whole football world knows that. As it turns our, Alabama is not a good source of players for the Raiders.
SCAR
Was DA able to PERSUADE McClain to play harder, smarter and with fire in his belly?....no
Was DA(and presumably Reggie signing off) dumping McClain in the middle of a season, progress towards a "future greatness of the Raiders"?...yes
well, well.... the jamarcus russell syndrome hits again! rolondo mcclain apparantly is done as a raider. his response? McClain wrote: "I'm gonna weigh my options. Looking forward to playing for an actual 'team.' "
Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/raiders/article/Raiders-seem-to-cut-ties-with-McClain-4075562.php#ixzz2DdCtVPFj
this team wasted a very high pick on this loser, not to mention the $$$ and he spews this crap! UNREAL!
NYR, your inability to look behind the words is astounding. Watch them play, if you don't think they aren't quitting, then you don't know what you are looking at. They have tuned out, when players make as many mistakes as they do, they are not into the game mentally. The reason why they aren't in the game mentally is because they have given up.
They get paid to play, so they will show up and put in some effort, but their hearts have quit, it's all it takes to make a bad team, a horrible team.
Allen is saying the right things to keep a 'front'. If he was asked off the record, you have to know it would be a different answer.
JONES
Check out this site if you already have not-
raiders1.ninjagoro.com
Break downs of key plays with video.
Also, if you can stomach it, Pro Football Focus for just how bad things are...
NYR, your inability to look behind the words is astounding. Watch them play, if you don't think they aren't quitting, then you don't know what you are looking at.
Jones, I'm astounded by the fact you believe a rookie coaching staff came in firing on all cylinders and only the players should be held accountable for the 2012 grease fire.
It's a work in progress. I still like Allen's approach, even if I'm uncertain he will find the desired results. Dumping McCalin is a big step in the right direction and sends a message to others. However, I believe the Raiders have many serviceable players on their roster right now (I'll provide my list when I have more time). I'm sure those players would take exception to being called "quitters."
Meanwhile, Browns have some spring in their step right now. Sunday's game might show us just how far the Raiders have fallen.
NYR, when did I ever say the coaches "are firing on all cylinders"? It's this type of generalizing and false picture painting that makes your points insincere. It makes discussing with you, useless.
The term quitters apply to those who are supposed to be the leaders on the team, the core that has been with the team for the last few years. Yes there are some servicable players, but not many as you describe. You keep kicking at the door, hoping to find a crack, keep trying, you might find 1. Don't forget to supply your list....
JONES
All of us fall into the trap of attempting to point out and communicate 1 easy thing or another to identify for the teams failings.
Perfect example is 'effort' as in the Raiders have quit, aren't fighting tooth and nail, lack desire, etc.
The reality is that there are guys that I would put my last dollar on who are giving 100% effort each and every play. Wheeler, Wiz, Myers, Burris, Palmer come to mind off the top of my head.
However, effort by itself isn't going to get it done. It is effort, execution, coaching talent, knowledge, systems, athleticism, acumen etc. collectively by ENTIRE units.
Case in point is a guy like Giordano. Does anyone question this guy's heart, desire, and effort? I don't but it doesn't help to see him sprinting across the field with his hair on fire trying to catch a WR if he was out of position in the first place. Yes, he gave his all but his lack of football intelligence trumped his effort.
Nice politically correct summary, Jack. Blame the whole lot and it's all done, mystery solved.
When building an expansion franchise, you start with the GM, who hires a HC, who hires his coaches and then all the rest is TALENT. This HC and GM came into a franchise obviously low on talent, questionable heart and players that are used to losing, nothing they could do this year, about that. So how can this regime be judged on the situation they are in?
Look at McClain as a prime example, as well as Routt. These 2 were supposed to be top players on the team, they believed it too. Routt thought he was going to light it up in KC, he lasted HALF A SEASON. McClain thinks he will be a starter on a "real team". These guys are not in reality and it comes back to the "culture" thing again. Kelly is the same way, Seymour, these guys are supposed to be the leaders, J Russ was too. You can see it in Dmac, these guys really think they are cream of the crop players, they aren't. They are mediocre with what Hue Jackson called a losing attitude.
We fans got sucked into believing it too. Anyways, the coach comes into a locker room still full of over blown ego's and a belief of "we run this team". It's the way it's always been in Oakland. If they don't get their way, they think they can over rule the HC. What I find 'astounding' is these players are really slow at picking up on reality, once they are done in Oakland, they are done. Career OVER. I can't believe the players think their careers will extend much further than Oakland, they won't.
The results can't change until the roster is changed. If the results are the same, then the coaches can be judged. But I see players who are punking it out and are done, McClain is a prime example....can't win with them, can't coach them, can't do it, won't do it.
JONES
"...generalizing and false picture painting....
Really? That describes most of your posts. When you're not criticizing folks opinions you're generalizing the coaches quit on the players and the players quit on the coaches... blah blah blah.
And despite all your generalizations, you're the only one here that truly believes he has it all figured out. Can you call Dennis Allen and let him know?
I will preface my list by suggesting good teams aren’t made up of just all-stars and impact players. Sometimes it’s the fringe (depth) players that make a difference on your team. The Raiders have many to work with. Without studying contract implications, I could see any of these players sticking to the 2013 roster.
Ausberry, David TE
Bergstrom, Tony OL
Bilukidi, Christo DT
Branch, Tyvon SS
Bryant, Desmond DT
Burris, Miles LB
Carlisle, Cooper G (backup only)
Condo, Jon LS
Crawford, Jack DE
Criner, Juron WR
Francies, Coye DB
Gaither, Omar LB
Goodson, Mike RB
Gordon, Richard TE
Hanson, Joselio CB
Heyward-Bey, Darrius WR (but not as 1 or 2)
Houston, Lamarr DE
Huff, Michael DB
Janikowski, Sebastian K
McFadden, Darren RB (possible trade bait)
Moore, Denarius WR
Myers, Brandon TE
Palmer, Carson QB
Parsons, Alex OL
Pryor, Terrelle QB
Reece, Marcel FB
Schmitt, Owen RB
Shaughnessy, Matt DE
Stewart, Jeremy RB
Streater, Rod WR
Veldheer, Jared T/C
Wheeler, Philip LB
Wisniewski, Stefen G
Ford, Jacoby WR
King, Marquette P (he will likely replace Lechler in 2013)
That’s 65% of the roster. Sure anyone of these guys could be out of a job next year, but they might also prove to be very serviceable.
BTW, good take CJ. I would take a team full of Giordanos if effort was all it took. He's like the Raiders' Rudy.
"...it comes back to the "culture" thing again."
That's not a generalization?
Russell and McClain are punks. Their lazy punk attitudes came with them to Oakland; they didn't acquire it here. Now they are both gone (or as good as gone).
Name the players you believe would be a solid starter on a top 10 team in the NFL.
What you listed is mediocre at best. Throw in the situation that is Oakland and why is anyone still crying about "we should be in the playoffs" even though the team last year was in a division with slackers like KC, SD, DEN without Manning. And still, they team playing at their peak, couldn't win the division.
Hue Jackson said they needed an attitude adjustment, top players from the Raiders are out of the league when they are done in Oakland, what other proof do you need? Keep dreaming that the roster is good enough, it isn't even close.
JONES
Jones,
For starters, I think it is VERY safe to say it is a talent driven league.
It is obvious that a team with the most talented players, 1-53, has the best chance of hoisting a SB at the end of the year although it isn't always the case.
The fine nuances of the game makes the differences between a bad team, an average team, a good team, an above average team, and an elite team come into play.
I have articulated some of the key ingredients to a winning team in past posts so I won't get into that again.
My bone to pick is an over-simplifiction and over-generalization in some of your recent posts. Throwing the entire roster under the bus is a cheap way of making a point.
I don't disagree that we have some players who will be lucky to stick in 2013 with the Raiders or another team.
I don't disagree that we've got some guys that can't adapt to new systems due to a low footall IQ.
Here's where we seem to be on the same page:
Until the team purges itself of the guys who have been given every opportunity to shine under the new regime but have come up short due to (pick one: subpar talent, subpar football acumen, subpar work ethic) than I don't think it is fair to properly and fairly evaluate McKenzie and DA.
The way to truly take this team onwards and upwards is from the ground up by adding building blocks in the draft and free agency. The process will take at least 2 offseaons in terms of turning over the roster, developing players, and solidifying an identity.
What has been a major setback for most Raider fans seems to be that we have taken numerous steps backwards in fielding a consistently competitive team.
The light at the end of the tunnell for me is Reggie finally having the cap space and draft picks to identify players that fits his requirements.
Not the least surprised by the McClain development. Ever listen to Bill Romo go off about Rolando during his Green Room discussions with Lo? Romo knows this kid isn’t made for the NFL. Next Man Up!!!!
Here’s an interesting point made by Desmond Bryant.
Bryant pointed out that defensive players’ underperforming is nothing new.
"It's been the same way for a while around here," said Bryant, who is in his fourth season. "We have always had talent, but we have never played up to our expectations for ourselves."
Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/raiders/article/Dennis-Allen-has-players-support-4068457.php#ixzz2DgPBb98X
Not the least bit surprised by the McClain development. Ever listen to Bill Romo go off about Rolando during his Green Room discussions with Lo? Romo knows this kid isn’t made for the NFL. Next Man Up!!!!
Here’s an interesting point made by Desmond Bryant.
Bryant pointed out that defensive players’ underperforming is nothing new.
"It's been the same way for a while around here," said Bryant, who is in his fourth season. "We have always had talent, but we have never played up to our expectations for ourselves."
Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/raiders/article/Dennis-Allen-has-players-support-4068457.php#ixzz2DgPBb98X
Jack, you generalized that I threw the entire roster under the bus. Too funny.
I said there a few players to keep, not "many" like NYR said. I'm throwing the old core under the bus because they have come up way short in leadership and desire to win. Point being, you can't win with these type of players no matter who is coaching.
So throwing the coaches under the bus makes no sense considering the situation. This has been my stance all along.
JONES
Bryant is right, it has been the NORM around Raiderville for way too long. It's still there and it's going to take a flush to get rid of it. I have to disagree with the talent part, talented players do not make the mistakes these guys make on a regular basis. Talented players make PLAYS on a regular basis, have NEVER seen that from this core of Raider players. I see them getting pushed around, their wills broken, their focus only there half the time. If you are a true warrior, you don't get pushed around, you do not give up and your focus is peaked for 60 minutes.
JONES
"RT"....
For what it's worth I NEVER in my wildest nightmares of this season foresaw the total devastation we would undergo...I had warned about many of the problems we have experienced this season but NEVER thought it would come to this!!!
Our house is a ruin without Al and I don't see a clear way back for this team/players/franchise as a hole...
That being said I will do what I have always done...
PantyRaider....Hold Fast The Helm Me Hearties Yo Ho!!!!!//__
What exactly does "throwing the coaches under the bus" mean?
My position is that the coaches are part of the equation, as Allen has stated at virtually every press conf. No need to read behind his words. He doesn’t strike me as being so arrogant that he believes it's just the players at fault.
Name the players you believe would be a solid starter on a top 10 team in the NFL.
Why should that even be relevant? Raiders aren’t a top 10 team. They’re barely a bottom 10 team. Just like you, Jones, I expect the roster to change for the better. But, ok, here’s my list of players that I believe could find starter work around the league. IMO, these players could be plug-n-play installations on a play-off caliber team. FYI, the Patriots were able to pull a player last year from our practice squad to start at CB.
Branch, Tyvon SS
Bryant, Desmond DT
Burris, Miles LB
Condo, Jon LS
Houston, Lamarr DE
Huff, Michael DB
Janikowski, Sebastian K
McFadden, Darren RB
Moore, Denarius WR
Myers, Brandon TE
Palmer, Carson QB
Reece, Marcel FB
Shaughnessy, Matt DE
Veldheer, Jared T/C
Wheeler, Philip LB
Wisniewski, Stefen G
Ford, Jacoby WR
Lechler, Shane P
I'm guessing the Raiders list is about as long (or short) as many other teams around the league. What mostly separates the Raiders roster from better teams is their lack of impact players.
Tyvon Branch would probably not be a starting S on a top 10 team,same with Burris, Bryant, Houston might, Huff no, McFadden no because he is injured as usual, Moore, no, Myers can't run block = no, Palmer could, Reece is a player, Shaunessy is overrated = no, Veldheer could, Wheeler no, Wiz, maybe, Ford no. That leaves two kickers who are tops in the League. You are WAY overrating the 'talent', NYR.
As far as it being relevant, this is what we are discussing, the talent that Allen has to work with, throw in the "culture" of the core and how can you blame the coaches? Wait until this very mediocre lineup with an "attitude problem" (Hue Jackson) is replaced and then judge the coaches.
JONES
"Our house is a ruin without Al"
A revised history, now the franchise was not in ruin with Mr.Davis? 1st, Hue Jackson has risen to "Coach of the Year" status and now the franchise was on the road to the Super Bowl with Mr.Davis running it. IDIOTS, you can't reason with insane.
JONES
Jones, you don't get the point. These players don't need to be impact players to be relevant for the Raiders. In terms of any of them being potential plug-n-play players on top 10 teams; if Sterling Moore can come off the Raiders practice squad and do it for the Pats, I'd dare to guess any of the players I mentioned could do the same.
Why are you so down on the Raiders entire roster? Are you just a bitter person?
PS, I find it very comical that you believe Darren McFadden couldn't start for a top-10 team. IMO, that statement alone diminishes credibility of your entire argument.
Can't start if you are hurt all the time...DUHHHH. Again, you paint a picture that I am down on the ENTIRE roster or that I am a bitter person. I'm just stating facts NYR, something you can't seem to grasp.
1 guy becomes a fringe player for a top 10 team for ONE SEASON and that is your proof? Get outta here, you aren't worth my time.
JONES
Jones - You haven't stated facts. You've made generalizations over and over about the roster, e.g., "coaches quit on the players and players quit on the coaches," based on pure speculation, e.g., your notion that the "Al Davis" culture has crippled this team.
What facts have you presented?
Your facts?!
The Sterling Moore example was the only one that immediately came to mind. I'm sure there are others, but it clearly shows you don't need to be a superstar to contribute to a top-level team.
My problem with blaming the players over the coaches is that there is regression/stagnation of nearly every returning player besides CP and Veldheer from last year.
Myers is playing better except for he drops every CRUCIAL ball thrown to him in the end zone... and he still can't block on running plays. So he doesn't get a pass.
Moore suddenly looks like more of a rookie than our rookie WRs... and DHB has reverted back to catching balls with his chest.
McFadden was the most glaring example of reversion before his injury.
The entire defense got worse... which was almost impossible to do.
How this can give anyone confidence in our coaching staff is beyond me.
"The entire defense got worse... which was almost impossible to do."
Seriously, Gary, have you looked at the starting 11 on D that we've run out the past 4 weeks?
This is a classic example of someone who doesn't understand how badly Reggie was hamstrung by the cap and draft.
Add in the untimely injuries to Bartell, Spencer, Seymour, Branch, Curry, converting a safety to CB (Huff), starting a 4th round pick (Burris), a checked out LB (McClain), and using guys like Hansen, Giordano, and Mitchell as starters ... suprised?
From the St. McK interview:
"Do you guys view Michael Huff as a cornerback long-term?
“No, he’s a safety."
...end quote..
JFC... when has he ever been a safety? When has he done ANYTHING at safety? He looks like a promising CB... and profootballfocus (who gets paid to actually follow football) has been raving about how well he is doing under such difficult circumstances.
If I get to watch Huff stand around with his finger up his ass at FS next season.. while St. McK brings in two more flunkie moron washed up never-beens at CB, I think my head will explode.
CJ:
Add in the untimely injuries to Bartell, Spencer, Seymour, Branch, Curry, converting a safety to CB (Huff), starting a 4th round pick (Burris), a checked out LB (McClain), and using guys like Hansen, Giordano, and Mitchell as starters ... suprised?
>>>>
Do you forget who we were playing with last year? Routt, Curry, Lito Sheppard, BOYD! Plus all the same flunkies from this year you mentioned.
You sure seem to get pissed when anyone questions the staff that just got blown out in FOUR STRAIGHT GAMES! Why is that?
Here at Raider Take, however, we've had some curious role reversals among our faithful community. Some who mainly blamed management (ie: owner, GM, coaches) for our ills over the years are now blaming the players, while some who mainly blamed the players are now blaming management.
>>>>
I didn't blame management much the last two years of Al's life because I saw steady IMPROVEMENT.
Now all I see is regression, and 4 consecutive blow out laughing-stock losses... perhaps the worst team in the NFL again.
And we upgraded at QB.
I don't understand how anyone can drink enough Koolade to ignore this.
Gary,
I will be judging management (owner, GM, HC) a lot more closely next year and subsequent seasons.
There will no longer be the excuse of no cap room or lack of draft picks.
Guys like Bartell and Spencer, Reggie rolled the dice on due to the situation we were in. They were cheap, 1 year replacements who unfortunately got hurt at the beginning of the season.
BTW, why all the revisionist history? Are you seriously suggesting that the 2011 Raiders defense was a decent unit?
2011 Raiders Defense
27.1 pts. allowed (29th ranked)
5.1 Y/A (32nd ranked)
2012 Raiders Defense
32.4 pts. allowed (32nd ranked)
4.7 Y/A (28th ranked)
So Gary, what upgrades were made to the 2012 Raiders defensive unit?
Reggie McKenzie......
On the gaps being a coaching issue, or a disconnect with the players:
“I’ve played. I know some of my responsibilities. A lot of that is on the players. Do your job. Just do your job. If you’re going to attack, you shed off the block; you’re responsible for this gap. It’s been preached. This is your job, this is your gap. Most of it is that. Now, sometimes I’m sure certain plays, whether it’s a slant or whether it’s this, that’s a call. Whether slanting or blitzing, maybe that takes him out, because he wasn’t good enough to beat a guy across his face, or wasn’t the right call at that time. For the most part, it’s just being able to just do our job. So, you can live with that, because you can fix it. You can coach it up and say, ‘Hey, you know what you did.’ But the ‘my bads’ kind of get old after a while.”
On how you go about fixing gap discipline, whether it’s a bad habit of players having played under the previous staff:
“Everybody’s trying to make a play, so you try to be the guy going around the opposite way. I understand that, but the guy next to you, the guy behind you, everybody’s got to be on the same page. You spoke of Warren Sapp, but I’m sure his teammates knew what he may do, so you’ve got to compensate for that. Is it innate? I couldn’t tell you that. Some players get used to doing what they do, yeah. But hopefully, that’s what my quest to change the culture of this thing, that part of it you can’t change overnight, because you just can’t change a guy. Some guys, you just can’t change.”
On the lack of pass rush:
“Two things: I want to win up front, and that’s on both sides of the ball, the big boys; but I also want to somehow affect the quarterback position. That’s with good coverage, good corners, a free safety that’s going to pick him off, or with somebody hitting him in pass rush, a good push up the middle, somebody that’s he’s going to be scared of. We’re going to get that. Guys, we’re going to try to upgrade a lot of positions, depth-wise, and get some impact players. That’s going to be on me.”
On an emphasis on getting players that love football, as opposed to people that just tolerate their job, and whether he thinks he has 53 players like that:
“I hope that the guys come to that. I can’t say that everybody is totally like that, no. I really don’t think there’s an NFL team like that. The bottom line is you have to have the majority of them like that, and you got your leadership, players that are strong that way, so when you’ve got some that deviate, then you’ve got a leader that can check them, show them the right way, ‘This is how we do it here.’ When you look at a Ray Lewis, you can pretty much bet, whether it’s a defensive player who’s not totally into it the way he is, I doubt if he shows it much. You know what I’m saying? Your surroundings. That’s part of the whole culture thing, as far as, do you have to have a coach saying, ‘Don’t do that; do this.’ You don’t want that. You want the players to take it upon themselves and run it. We’re not at that level.”
On whether he was surprised at the lack of that this year:
“You scout guys from other teams. You hear about stuff. So, I knew some of those players we had in those leadership positions. But I’ve also been around the LeRoy Butlers, the Reggie Whites, Brett Favres, Aaron Rodgers, you talk about natural leaders, doing it that way, no, I can’t say I have that. Knowing that coming in, no one came to me to tell me, ‘You have a great leader in him.’ So, to answer that question, no. Going in, I didn’t have a bunch of great leaders.”
Hey NYR, you see where Reggie mentions CULTURE? SPECULATION? I love it when the truth slaps dummies across the face, it's been happening to the "crew" ever since I started posting on this site, it's hilarious.
JONES
Look at Jones! Let me re-post Reggie’s statement so you can bask in its glory.
”But hopefully, that’s what my quest to change the culture of this thing, that part of it you can’t change overnight, because you just can’t change a guy. Some guys, you just can’t change.”
Very surprising because that’s a direct hit on Al Davis.
However, none of his comments change my opinion. I never gave the players a pass. I’ve said all along the talent needs to improve.
It’s no mystery the players look completely lost. The results speak for themselves.
As I’ve posted many times now, we won’t know exactly what’s wrong until we see the solution. Management, coaching, players; everybody is, or should be under the microscope.
That said, I respect Reggie’s statement and, therefore, offer you congratulations.
Cheers!
I look forward to the season when Reggie changes the culture.
LoL!!!...This after I warned about bringing in players off the "IR"...How soon you forget/ignore/revise reality!!!
"Guys like Bartell and Spencer, Reggie rolled the dice on due to the situation we were in. They were cheap, 1 year replacements who unfortunately got hurt at the beginning of the season."
Just Squirm Jack!!!....There ain't no way out of the CRAP you posted to start...No Wait...Before we even had a coaching staff or roster set....
CHAMPS my ass!!!
Judas!!...Funny how you avoid the real issues!!!
Reggie:
On whether Allen will evaluate the assistant coaches after the year, or McKenzie: “He’s going to have the evaluation, absolutely. Now, am I going to have evaluation also? Absolutely.”
On whether Allen will have total control of coaching staff hirings: “With my input. You’re talking about scheme and all that. Everyone’s going to show up with his long list and all that, but this is way it goes, guys: This is my football team. Now, it’s not a dictatorship by any means. But it’s my football team, and I’m responsible. We have a great line of communication, so that’s not going to be an issue, at all. It’s my job to evaluate the situation, and I’m going to get that done. We’re going to do it the right way. I can’t build a team without effectively evaluating what’s going on. You’ve got to do it the right way, week to week. That’s why the month of November, we’ve got five weeks to correct that now. I’ll be doing some evaluations in these five weeks.”
On Mark Davis’ level of frustration: “Like I said at the beginning, Mark and I talk all the time. The bottom line is we want to see progress, and that November month, nobody was pleased with. Nobody. He and I discussed that quite a bit, trying to put a finger on it, but we want to see better play, and we’ve got five games to do it.”
On what would be a successful season for the Raiders, in his eyes: “I want us to not only play well in the last five games, but in terms of progress, you talk about defense, I don’t want to give up big runs. That means our gap control, down to a minimum as far as making mistakes. A guy breaking tackles, maybe their guy is better than our guy, and I’m fine with that. But to give them stuff? We’re not good enough to just give guys stuff, points, or just giving up big plays like that. I’m just looking for the offense to move the ball, score some points, get better in the red zone, get better on third down, keep the chains moving, score points. More consistent special-teams play, especially in coverage. I’m looking for a lot of things, but I’m looking for some wins.”
PantyRaider....These Coaches Are On Notice Just As Much As These Players....As It Should be!!!!!//__
Allen has talked all along about scheme being a contributing factor in the Raiders failures. Clearly, the emphasis has been on execution, but scheme has been mentioned many times.
Raiders are still getting a handle on who they are as a team. Allen says they will say the course on defense, but the offense has transitioned from mostly ZB to mostly power blocking, and had some level of success doing so.
My biggest concern with ZBS (besides that the Raiders can't implement it) is short yardage, particularly goal line, where you need power blocking. Raiders aren't a team that can just punch it in.
McKenzie said he is happy with Allen. Evaluations happen after every season, it is nothing out of the ordinary. McKenzie said he himself will be evaluated. If there can be an upgrade at the coordinators positions, then hell yeah, do it.
Just like the players, McKenzie said he is going to bring in upgrades at many positions.
IMO, Mark Davis should not be getting into the 'spotlight'. It would be better if he laid low, he doesn't seem to understand the situation, IMO, and will only cause problems by sticking his nose in it. Pay the checks, Mark, leave the football to those who KNOW IT.
JONES
As far as scheme being the problem, other nteams run the same schemes and they work. The players cannot pick it up, they couldn't pick up the last schemes either. The players are going and new players to be brought in that can execute the schemes, hopefully.
JONES
"Judas!!...Funny how you avoid the real issues!!!"
Really? Did McKenzie not say those things? Hasn't Allen complained all year about EXECUTION, Mental errors, lack of focus? These are not real issues? You are making out like McKenzie is breathing down Allen's neck, ready to pull the rug out and that isn't the case.
JONES
BTW, why all the revisionist history? Are you seriously suggesting that the 2011 Raiders defense was a decent unit?
2011 Raiders Defense
27.1 pts. allowed (29th ranked)
5.1 Y/A (32nd ranked)
2012 Raiders Defense
32.4 pts. allowed (32nd ranked)
4.7 Y/A (28th ranked)
So Gary, what upgrades were made to the 2012 Raiders defensive unit?
>>>>>
We were horrible last year, and we look worse every week this year defensively. A lot of people were bragging about what great pickups St. McK made with Burris and Wheeler early... but they keep getting worse every week too.
I don't know what standard you use to grade a coaching staff... but playing worse every single week shouldn't be one of them.
Can you at least be honest enough to admit that?
There is hardly a single player that isn't playing worse now than they were at the beginning of the season.
Well, ok, maybe Reece is the exception... and that is only because Knapp stumbled into the great revelation that maybe it might be best to GIVE HIM THE DAMN BALL.
Honesty -- that's a good one from a guy who acts like the 2011 Raiders were on the cusp of greatness. Get real.
The 2012 Raiders were behind the eight ball to improve the talent base with no coin, no picks, and the inability to retain players.
Without depth and as injuries have mounted up, the wheels have come off the past 4 weeks.
Are guys like Gaither, Hanson, Giordano, Bryant legit starters in the NFL? Would a guy like Burris start from day 1 on a team that had decent starters?
Since the Raiders were so paper thin with their talent level and depth, injuries hurt that much more (no pun intended).
CJ, concentrate on my point please, instead of just throwing out desperate excuses... I assert that every player on the team has regressed.
How is that not coaching?
Last years team had plenty of injuries to deal with too and was still in the playoff hunt to the final play of the season.
Hue did more with less (Knapp has a top of the line QB that practiced his system from day one) and is in the process of destroying HIM too! He's already trying to destroy Moore, McF, and DHB's career. Who else is in line?
Carson?
Is it too much to ask for a top of the line OC? Instead of a bargain basement never-has-been?
Somebody with any kind of a pedigree instead of a desperation retread? Isn't that what drove everyone crazy about Al??
At least with Hue, he was smart enough to pile up wins while McF was healthy. We were 4-2 with him. Now we will be lucky to win 4 games total... even after he comes back.
The ZBS was more important to Knapp than wins, obviously.
And I'll bet good money Knapp retains his job! There's nothing about Allen that makes me think there he has anything besides ego and stubbornness as an attribute.
Those are the traits that got McDaniels and Haley fired after two years.
Gary is the king of "I want it all and I want it now" routine.
McKenzie is flat out telling him that the 'talent' isn't good enough. Fine, that is obvious, so judge the coaching when they have Reggie's guys in place. Judging the coaching when the description of the talent they walked into is, unresponsive, mental errors over and over, lack of heart, lack of focus...it's going to take some time.
If the coordinators can be upgraded, then that is a good thing. McKenzie said he is happy with Allen, they both understand the situation and they will bring in a new CULTURE in the next year or 2. Like Reggie said, "...because you just can’t change a guy. Some guys, you just can’t change.”
Funny how Reggie addresses the fans and the fans just ignore what he is saying, like it's just white noise. And you have the same points driven as fact, when in fact they are not. They ignore what Hue said at the end of last year, that he was going to make many changes, the team needed an attitude adjustment because losing came to easy to them. Some people just can't handle the truth.
JONES
Gary,
I don't disagree that some players have regressed the past 4-5 weeks.
The guys that come to mind are DHB (dropping balls again), Wheeler (out of position and getting exposed in pass defense), Moore (not running precise routes + drops), Branch (poor tackling and pass coverage).
Are these coaching problems? Or are they mental errors by the individual players regressing?
When DHB drops a ball thrown right to him and drops it, is it the WR Coach's fault?
Regarding the coaching staff, excluding DA, any tweaks/upgrades in 2013 should be seriously looked at. Experienced, proven coordinators are welcome.
BTW, the cap mess, lack of draft picks, and injuries are not excuses but our reality. How DA/McK deal with the upcoming offseason will be a fork in the road for whether or not we can finally build something that will lead to success or more turnover in management.
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