Call it a season and play everybody on the bench. Evaluate ALL coaches and players. Build a short list of available coaches and weigh their merits and costs vs what we already have on staff. The Oakland brain trust can call it what they like but it is rebuilding time for the Oakland Raiders. At this point the clown car is the official car of the Oakland Raiders rather than a symbol of mediocrity and ineptitude.
Didn't see anything wrong with the coaching, that's what you call PATHETIC. Guess the coaches are supposed to dumb down the playbook so these amateurs can at least excute ONE PLAY without F-ing it up? Can't call this a team, totally fractured and I put that on the players. The announcer plainly stated that the Raiders are on the bottom of the talent pool in the NFL. Maybe if the HC was a little more charming?
Of course everything will be evaluated, the evaluation has been going on since they came on to the job. I think the GM/HC gave these players a fair shake, even tried to change it up to suit the players and there isn't any hope for them. Did you see when they put up the Raiders top picks in the last few years? They didn't mention that they also traded 2 top 1st round picks and a top 2nd round, for Seymour and Palmer. Then throw in the maxed out cap with a core of complete crap. I am ashamed of myself for ever believing that these players could play real football. I drank that kool aid and it's giving me a major attack of heartburn.
What excuses, it's fact, players suck, did you see Adams come in and outplay Huff by a wide margin? I did. Did you see McFadden run into peoples backs instead of cutting back, I did. Did you see another crapload of drops that would have been big plays, I did. How bout the missed tackles? Or the poor coverage by Bartell? These guys don't have much talent and they have little idea on how to think a game, the core of the Raiders has been exposed.
Forgot to mention McFadden getting up in pain, did you see it? He is ready to get hurt again.....it's a freakin joke, Giordano is 10 steps behind the play, not just a couple. BOTTOM OF THE BARREL, time to get the monkies out of the barrel, time to rid the Oakland Raiders of the GARBAGE that is stinking up the joint. It will be a good day when I see these players have been shown the door, can't happen fast enough.
So you are OK with bringing all the coaches back next year? Seriously, what do you see in DA? A Belichick in waiting? A future hall of famer who just needs good talent? What do you see that gives you hope for next season? I wish I could see what you see because try as I might I don't.
That is Palmer throwing the ball, I don't see Knapp throwing the check down short of the 1st down on every 3rd and long, that is Palmer's decision. Palmer can throw downfield if he CHOOSES to and that is one of his problems. I mentioned it earlier this year that he is checking down to soon on 3rd down, probably scared his blocking is going to break down. Whatever the reason, that is on Palmer, not Knapp.
As far as the secondary, what did you expect? Both CB's go down in the 1st 2 weeks, Huff was benched tonight, Adams looks better than all of them.
Routt isn't playing, is that who would rather have at 7 mill per year? The cheap CB's that were signed is all McKenzie could get because of cap restraints, caused by the last regime. Some fans are just clueless and they seem to like to post on these boards.
The Broncos made Oakland their new practice field tonight. That should change in a year or two. Jones, go apologize to your wife. Your spewing here will soon come to an end.
00...you are right, watching this game, if there is a conspiracy, tonight would be very good proof. The refs couldn't wait to throw a flag on the Raiders when momentum started their way, the calls were mostly phantom, the penalties you pointed out by Denver did happen.
Gotta generally agree with 00, although not an excuse for this terrible team. Always said there's bias. How else do you explain the Raiders leading the league every year (or near the top) with different players and coaches?
I guess I was nuts for having hope at halftime. Down 13-7 and getting the ball to begin the 3rd. As soon as Goodson returned the kickoff from 10 yards deep in the end zone, I knew it was false.
Jones mentioned that draft graphic from the last 8 years and that's THE reason for this disaster. You almost couldn't do worse if you tried. Really. And no significant FA signings (see Seymour, Briesel, Barnes, Moss, etc.)
00, just like the world we live in....how far does the rabbit hole go? Makes you wonder.
X....Seymour was traded for a top 1st round pick, so was Moss that included Nap Harris in the trade, Harris was another high pick bust. Very hard to win in pro sports when drafting top 10 most years and getting nothing but busts.
Not on defense, and not in this game. However, it exposed what the coaches have been doing wrong in the first twelve games; relying too much on their front 4 to create pressure and playing too soft in coverage.
Raiders brought blitz presssure and almost doubled their sack total for the season.
Last year I thought Giordano was a decent player, but he's been the Raiders biggest liability in their secondary.
The offense is still in a coma. The best play call was the TD to McFadden.
Nice Potty mouth there Jones. Raider00, saw the glimmer as well... it'll take some time until the glimmer becomes a consistent, win-producing machine, like the Patriots.
See, the Patriots, they are what the Raiders used to look like... dominating and consistent.
On the Offense: The Drop party continues! Honestly, some of these guys look like better sculpted versions of my uncle trying to catch a long bomb at a family picnic. You just flat out DON'T SEE this kind of thing at this level.
Another thing worth mentioning, I thought the Touchdown drive in the 2nd quarter may have been there finest of the entire season. Smart play calling, quick reads, take what they give you, capped off by what I felt like was their best looking play of the year, the beautiful fake right, find Mcfadden back to the left on the screen for the Touchdown.
Truthfully, the entire drive reminded me a lot of the Denver offense. Had the Raiders learned from their mistakes?? Had Greg Knapp been forced to take a bathroom break?? Clearly it must have been the latter because from that point on it was back to the old "2 runs for nothing then an impossible 3rd and long." scheme, which has really become the Hallmark of the Greg Knapp era. So frustrating.
A quick note on the penalties: Look, we all know that penalties weren't the deciding factor in this game but I COMPLETELY agree with the fact that its an absolute crime to time and time again give one team a completely unfair advantage in the penalty department. Especially when everyone knows that you could call them on every play on either team.
My favorite little wrinkle is how once the game is decided the refs attempt to "even things up" by tacking on a couple of meaningless penalties on the team that's basically was given a clean slate when it still mattered. Oh, NOW the Broncos are holding??? Oh, NOW there was some illegal contact?? At times the NFL feels like the WWE in that regard.
One last thing, if we have the number one pick would it be completely irresponsible to take a flyer on Geno Smith?? With the defense the way it is it may seem foolish but what if that guy is the next RG3?
Not on defense, and not in this game. However, it exposed what the coaches have been doing wrong in the first twelve games; relying too much on their front 4 to create pressure and playing too soft in coverage.
>>>>
I was going to say something similar... the team played hard at times, and the coaching at times was outstanding.
If this was what we had seen all season we'd still be in the playoff hunt... Denver is an outstanding well-coached team.
Shrug... it is what it is.
We need better players and more consistent outstanding coaching.
I agree with Cork... it prolly won't happen until 2004.
Btw... I cannot emphasize enough how much a mistake it would be to get rid of DA right now.
Nor how much of a mistake it would be to keep Knapp. The TD play to McF should be something that happens with regularity. The sweep play to begin the 2nd half with McF should have been the 30th time we saw such a pull.
Instead it was the first time Knapp called either all season.
HE DOESNT KNOW WHAT HE IS DOING!
McFadden up the gut is his favorite play.
How stupid does one have to be to call that? The entire team pulls tricks to get McFadden into open spaces. Duh... kinda like last year. If we keep Knapp next year, we need to trade McF. He has no clue what to do with him.
McFadden is worthless no matter who the coach is. He might make it as a third down back on a good team, but the kid can't take a hit. I saw that fact from day 1. Beyond that, he's the easiest tackle in the league when he's not in open space.
McFadden is worthless no matter who the coach is. He might make it as a third down back on a good team, but the kid can't take a hit. I saw that fact from day 1. Beyond that, he's the easiest tackle in the league when he's not in open space. >>>>
So why send him up the gut play after play after play after play?
He DID lead the league in rushing 5 games in for a reason JC... or did you forget this?
He's the second best open field runner in the league behind AP.
I have to agree with 'Grape', McFadden goes down on the first sign of contact, it's embarrassing to see him falling down with a hand on his shin. As far as running up the gut, he had cutback lanes and he still refuses to do it. 1st instinct for him is to try and outrun the edge.
He can't pick up the concept of cutting into a hole, Stewart is much more effective at this than McFaden.
1st play of the game for the Offense, McFadden 1 on 1 over the middle with a slow MLB, perfect play, perfect throw and what does he do? Thought he had great hands? It could have been a huge play, happened many times last night. That isn't on the coaches.
Reece looks better at HB than McFaden, McFaden will be known as a 1 trick pony who loved the Trainers table. And, a rumor, but McFaden also likes the strip clubs....he has that culture thing, not too bright, needs babysitting.
Anonymous said...."If this was what we had seen all season we'd still be in the playoff hunt"
Say what? What game were you watching? This game was what we have been seeing all year, players screwing up left and right and falling apart as units throughout the game. They made a few stops in the red zone, if they didn't, it would have been just another blowout. Keep them coming Gary, you are hilarious.
It's alarming how easy McFadden goes down sometimes. He has a propensity to slip and fall when making a cut. Then he pounds the football on the ground like to say he could have made a big play out of it. Reece, Goodson and Stewart have all looked better the this year.
Also, I thought McFadden was a better receiver. He's dropped more than his share of passes this year, and not just downfield but ones that are right in his hands in the flat.
If McFadden is gone next year, that will just add to the long list of first round draft busts... something that has definitely set this team back.
Also, I thought McFadden was a better receiver. He's dropped more than his share of passes this year, and not just downfield but ones that are right in his hands in the flat.
>>>>
Remember the first game when all CP did was dump off to McF to the point were people were remarking he was going to get him killed?
Something has happened since then, and I think it is a total loss of confidence.
When you have an OC that shouldn't even be in the NFL... things like this happen, IMO.
Can anyone here with a straight face tell me they hope Knapp is back next year? I don't even think Jones can drink that much Koolade.
Funny, Anonymous, Stewart, a small back, was being used the same way as Mcfaden and he looked in no danger of going down with a season ending injury. It's got nothing to do with how the Offense is being called, it has all to do with McFaden not being able to withstand NFL punishment or to grasp the Offense.
Knapp can be upgraded, but he isn't the main reason for the lack of the Offense to be consistent. Dropped balls, wrong routes, a QB who has a penchant for throwing picks at the absolute wrong time.
A starting RB that refuses to do what it takes to be productive in this Offense. I think this Offense can be productive, if the players are in place to make it work. Knapp isn't the best, but I see an Offense that can move the ball.
I also see players who make mistakes that just kill drives and momentum. If there were a higher standard of playmakers on this O, I could see it being good enough for the team to contend.
The same players on offense have performed at a higher level in the past. So I have to wonder, with all the mental errors and poor execution we've seen, if Knapp and the assistant coaches are getting the message across.
They've played 13 games. There's no execuse for the breakdowns to continue.
As it turns out, the Raiders were a better offense under Hue Jackson with Jason Campbell at QB than under Knapp with Palmer at QB.
A starting RB that refuses to do what it takes to be productive in this Offense. I think this Offense can be productive, if the players are in place to make it work. Knapp isn't the best, but I see an Offense that can move the ball.
>>>
So if DA and McK decide to bring Knapp back you are cool with this? No problem.. just need better players?
What players do you think we need to run his insipid offense? I'm thinking all-pro's at every position. Perhaps HOFers at every position... that's how much I hate his offense.
I don't think I am alone.
If McK and DA want to give the fans the finger, lets watch them keep Knapp out of sheer stubbornness.
Then endure 20,000 people per game... nobody is that stupid.
I have mixed feelings about trading the 1st round pick for additional picks. On the one hand, we need blue-chip, 1st round, impact quality but on the other hand, our cupboard is so bare that we need the extra bodies.
No question that McKenzie needs to make his mark in the upcoming draft.
Take a look at our 1st round selectons from 2000 to present:
2000 SeaBass (major reach)
2001 Derrick Gibson (bust)
2002 Philip Buchanon (bust), Napoleon Harris (serviceable)
In summary, this is a horrible, pathetic ROI for 13 1st round picks. Guys who are complete busts and/or out of the league litter this group.
>>>
Isn't that all the more reason to trade down? Some of those picks were applauded at the time as sensible picks! Gallery, Huff, and McClain all good good grades from the experts... especially Gallery.
Its easier now to trade down than it used to be now that they have sensible rookie contract rules, if St. McK doesn't trade out of his top 5 pick, I will think he is remiss. It should be a no-brainer with all the holes to fill.
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Hate to say it, but the Raiders should follow what the Seattle Shithawks did. New coach came in, blew up the roster, brought in a ton of young talent and they are contenders in 2 short years. IMO, McKenzie will have the roster in much better shape for next year, this is where he shines. Draft days are going to be much better for this team moving forward. It's going to be interesting to watch how it plays out.
My takes now that we have seen whatever that is there to see in 2012. There is absolutely no need to make pompous pretense about the team's direction:
1. Let RM and DA nuke this team. Until the roster is significantly changed, all we will end up seeing is a repeat performance of constipation.
2. Err on the side of trading down for more daft picks in the near future, especially if we have an (un)enviable chore to do something with anything that is #1 - #10 overall selection. We need loads of fresh bodies. We do not have much choice.
3. Give RM and DA some break. We have witnessed the effects of chronic coaching instability. Are we not getting sick and tired of this ... even feel like vomiting?!?
There will be no short-cuts or magical potions to turn this franchise around. It is going to require building the team from the ground up over the next few offseasons primarily through the draft and shrewd free agent acquisitions.
I am very interested to see the stategy employed by McKenzie in rebuilding the team. There are some many areas of the team that need to be infused with good football players that I'm curious to see how McK's priorities take shape.
It's a crying shame we had to wait 10 years for the rebuilding process to begin. Unfortunately, there's no guarantee it will work this time either. All we can do is wait and see.
I'm probably in the camp that says trade down our 1st rd pick and acquire more picks (depends on who's there).
Also, it wouldn't upset me to see one or both coordinators (and ST coach) replaced. Stability and continuity that we need most will come from McKenzie and Allen.
We can talk about poor execution all day, but sometimes bad performace is the result of bad instruction. Conveying the message is a critical component that none of us get to see.
"We can talk about poor execution all day, but sometimes bad performace is the result of bad instruction"...
Stab in the dark? These players are supposed to be PROFESSIONALS. That means they should be able to catch, block, tackle, cover, read a play etc, at a very high level. Coaches design the plays and it's up to the players to execute those plays.
What we see is players getting open (coaching) and then players dropping the ball (players). We see RB's coming off the practise squad and playing at a fairly high level and gaining yards. Then we see the so-called superstar, fall down, drop passes, run into the backs of his own players, try to outrun the end when it isn't there (player). Then we see missed tackles (players), blown assignements (players) and an overall poor ability to read plays (players).
I see the Defensive coaches putting their players in positions to make plays, it's all the can do, the players have to make it happen, they can't, case closed.
Let's move on, I think we know the players are gone, so you may as well get behind the new regime until it has been proven that it is the coaches who are "unable to coach up" the players.
Sorry to upset you, Jones. It was pretty apparent the Raiders played in a different defense on Thursday, with far for pressure packages and tighter coverages, than they had played in the first 12 games. The results were better, except for the laser accuracy of Peyton Manning.
In addition to occasional sloppy play, the Raiders roster is also capable of doing what they're told. To some extent, that was apparent on Thurs.
"...so you may as well get behind the new regime until it has been proven that it is the coaches who are "unable to coach up" the players."
What do you think I've been saying? That's pretty obvious, isn't it?
They played a different Defense? What, they implemented a new Defense on a 4 day week? CLUELESS.
Your comments don't make me mad, NY, they are fun to pick apart because they are so 'Gary' like. If the Raider roster was able to 'do as they are told', then why have they only won 3 games? Why are there mental and physical errors all over the field? Why are players being benched? HILARIOUS.
Bartell and Schmitt are now cut, have brought McClain back, for now. Purging has begun. Obviously, it's not just Mr.Davis players that are targeted, which is a good sign. Gary always points to the "big ego's" in the Raiders front office and coaching. Looks by these cuts today, that it's more about finding who is right for the team going forward. That is good news.
Your comments don't make me mad, NY, they are fun to pick apart because they are so 'Gary' like. If the Raider roster was able to 'do as they are told', then why have they only won 3 games? Why are there mental and physical errors all over the field? Why are players being benched? HILARIOUS. >>>
How did they get to 8 wins the last two seasons then?
BTW, I guess there is a local radio show that is saying the CP is becoming disinterested and that the players don't respect Allen at all.
If true, we have a long row to hoe here folks.
Unless the wild Gruden rumors are true, Allen is not going anywhere, and I doubt anyone wants CP and his salary.
I've noticed it in CP's face for the first time Thursday myself...
Yeah, heard it before, Anonymous anonymous. These players haven't respected a coach yet. That's part of that 'culture' thing. If you respected the coaches, the other players didn't respect you.
It was Mr.Davis that was to be respected, the coaches were figureheads who Mr.Davis disrespected frequently. These players don't believe in the normal chain of command, so it is just another part of the new regime that they are unable to adapt to.
"radio show" rumors and CP's face -- yup it must be true Gary.
Keep on scripting the narrative to fit your viewpoint with no tangible proof or sources.
Any player that has quit on DA or doesn't respect DA will be shown the door and for good reason.
FACT: DA is a well respected coach by the coaching fraternity and former players that he has personally coached (ie. John Fox and Champ Bailey) who are on record as saying he has the right stuff.
BTW, CP3 has given video interviews the past 12 weeks and he has consistently communicated that the team is continuing to work hard to improve as a TEAM. His message has been of the variety of a grounded leader with no hidden agenda.
Is he frustrated and disappointed by how the season has transpired? Of course.
He is a competitor. He if wasn't disappointed then I'd be worried.
Come on Gary. You can do some much better. Saying you don't like DA or don't think he is good enough to be a head coach is ok by me since it would be your opinion.
Conjuring up rumors from a radio show and being a "facial expression" expert is just lame and you know it.
"It was pretty apparent the Raiders played in a different defense on Thursday, with far for pressure packages and tighter coverages, than they had played in the first 12 games."
Here we go again with the broad brush stroke, black & white analysis. Guess you didn't watch the ATL game.
Look at Stanford Routt, soon to be EX Houston Texan. Can't even play special teams to save his career. And he was considerd a top player on the Raiders....more proof.
Come on Gary. You can do some much better. Saying you don't like DA or don't think he is good enough to be a head coach is ok by me since it would be your opinion.
Conjuring up rumors from a radio show and being a "facial expression" expert is just lame and you know it. >>>
Fair enough. I am all in on CP, as I hope you know... and will wait to see with Allen. I haven't seen even a glimpse from him yet to think he is anything special. Not even one iota.
What are you seeing that you are so impressed with that I am missing?
I don't do BLIND FAITH. Sorry... give me even ONE tangible. One player that has improved maybe?
Patriots played a great game, no wonder, their offensive line coach has been with them for THIRTEEN YEARS! This being said, and having a VERY healthy football relationship, if the Raiders fire coach Allen in before 2015, they are asking for repeat failure, because the only thing worse than poor draft choices is poor leadership choices. It's Christmas, and it's that time of year I like to give a little more than usual, even to you miserable scallywags. Here goes: Why are you a Raider Fan, and what is one thing that could cause you to not be. Best answer gets a really nice Raiders jersey, I'm not kidding. Only rule is: must be logical. You cannot claim to have Silver and Black blood, and I can have nothing to do with past performance or logos or geography. Good luck! (Yes, you can play too, Jones). Merry Christmas and Good Luck.
I'm with you on CP. He has been a first class leader who has been accountable for his actions.
During these tough times, he hasn't given in to the easy default option of quitting. Far from it. CP seems to have a firm grasp on the difficult situation at hand but is continuing to be a PROFESSIONAL.
He has been a solid, lead by example vet for the younger players who need a role model to follow instead of me-first idiots like McClain.
As far as DA, you might not see his leadership qualities but I do. The results on the field have been very poor. In spite of these poor results, I have admired how he has conducted himself. I think he has been put in an extremely difficult spot but will come out the other side due to his firm conviction in what he is trying to do.
As far as players that have "improved", there really are very few candidates. The players that I've seen improve the most are the ones who were waiver wire discards, practice squad players, rookies, undrafted players, and players thrown into the fire by default -- guys like Adams, Stewart, Burris, Streeter, Crinor, Reece.
Some of these guys have been inconsistent partly due to inexperience and poor play by their units but at times have exceeded expectations. Not much to hang your hat on but it is difficult for an individuals to truly shine on a regular basis when the team as a whole is playing so poorly.
What I'm dying to see is for this team to be infused with motivated, talented players with high football IQs and for there to be a sense that the franchise is truly building something.
Unfortunately, building in earnest will need to wait until the 2013 off season.
"Here we go again with the broad brush stroke, black & white analysis. Guess you didn't watch the ATL game"
CJ - I stand corrected. The Atlanta games makes two games the Raiders actually dialed up creative blitz packages and played tighter coverage; and both instances yielded better results.
The Raiders had 6 sacks in those two games, and regularly pressured two QBs that don't take many sacks. In ATL, that pressure led to 3 INTs.
Outside of those two games, with limited blitzing and often playing soft coverages, the Raiders managed only 11 sacks and +- 5 INTs.
So we've seen the Raiders dial it up in two games, and both led to positive results, even if they were both losses.
Talk about changing the Raiders' culture, what about changing the culture here, where anyone who doesn't share the same opinion is labeled "clueless" and ridiculed.
Take: so what you're saying is, if the Raiders blew up the coaches again and half the players, every other year, you'd still stay? Dude, what happened to a Commitment to Excellence. First time ever, I'm calling "Bullshit". What would you be celebrating. I think most of you might be really afraid to answer this question because you are hanging on to old glories and really need this team to be good to back up the lifestyle you've created around it. Like i said, it's not about wins, it's about loyalty. Then wins happen.
Oh poor Ny, he is being ridiculed...stop playing the victim. You remind me of that little brother who doesn't know when to stop, ya keep yapping, trying to get that response, then when you get it, you go crying to mommy. If you don't want the reaction, why keep poking for it?
No way a team can implement a new style of Defense in a 4 day period. When you suggest that this is what happened, you deserve to be ridiculed. If you don't know these types of things about the sport, then you shouldn't be writing like you know it. Obviously what you write, shows you don't know. You aren't fooling anyone.
69 Comments:
Call it a season and play everybody on the bench. Evaluate ALL coaches and players. Build a short list of available coaches and weigh their merits and costs vs what we already have on staff. The Oakland brain trust can call it what they like but it is rebuilding time for the Oakland Raiders. At this point the clown car is the official car of the Oakland Raiders rather than a symbol of mediocrity and ineptitude.
Didn't see anything wrong with the coaching, that's what you call PATHETIC. Guess the coaches are supposed to dumb down the playbook so these amateurs can at least excute ONE PLAY without F-ing it up? Can't call this a team, totally fractured and I put that on the players. The announcer plainly stated that the Raiders are on the bottom of the talent pool in the NFL. Maybe if the HC was a little more charming?
JONES
The broken record is playing again. Weather forecast for tomorrow is heavy smog courtesy of the old gas bag. Just keep making excuses, baby!
Of course everything will be evaluated, the evaluation has been going on since they came on to the job. I think the GM/HC gave these players a fair shake, even tried to change it up to suit the players and there isn't any hope for them. Did you see when they put up the Raiders top picks in the last few years? They didn't mention that they also traded 2 top 1st round picks and a top 2nd round, for Seymour and Palmer. Then throw in the maxed out cap with a core of complete crap. I am ashamed of myself for ever believing that these players could play real football. I drank that kool aid and it's giving me a major attack of heartburn.
JONES
What excuses, it's fact, players suck, did you see Adams come in and outplay Huff by a wide margin? I did. Did you see McFadden run into peoples backs instead of cutting back, I did. Did you see another crapload of drops that would have been big plays, I did. How bout the missed tackles? Or the poor coverage by Bartell? These guys don't have much talent and they have little idea on how to think a game, the core of the Raiders has been exposed.
JONES
Unfortunately RM's fingerprints are all over the revamped secondary. I take it you are a fan of Knapp's throw it for 5 yds on 3rd & 10?
Forgot to mention McFadden getting up in pain, did you see it? He is ready to get hurt again.....it's a freakin joke, Giordano is 10 steps behind the play, not just a couple. BOTTOM OF THE BARREL, time to get the monkies out of the barrel, time to rid the Oakland Raiders of the GARBAGE that is stinking up the joint. It will be a good day when I see these players have been shown the door, can't happen fast enough.
JONES
So you are OK with bringing all the coaches back next year? Seriously, what do you see in DA? A Belichick in waiting? A future hall of famer who just needs good talent? What do you see that gives you hope for next season? I wish I could see what you see because try as I might I don't.
That is Palmer throwing the ball, I don't see Knapp throwing the check down short of the 1st down on every 3rd and long, that is Palmer's decision. Palmer can throw downfield if he CHOOSES to and that is one of his problems. I mentioned it earlier this year that he is checking down to soon on 3rd down, probably scared his blocking is going to break down. Whatever the reason, that is on Palmer, not Knapp.
As far as the secondary, what did you expect? Both CB's go down in the 1st 2 weeks, Huff was benched tonight, Adams looks better than all of them.
Routt isn't playing, is that who would rather have at 7 mill per year? The cheap CB's that were signed is all McKenzie could get because of cap restraints, caused by the last regime. Some fans are just clueless and they seem to like to post on these boards.
JONES
Anonymous Gary trying to act anonymous..........If you don't get it by now, then you are 1 dumb SOB.
JONES
Truly JONES you are what you speak.
I saw the future. 2016! Bolts already canning their coach. Hold Fast.
OK, call me crazy, but I actually saw a glimmer of hope tonight.
I thought the run defense, minus Mclain, was the best it's been all year.
Adams played an outstanding game at CB.
The defense, overall, did a lot of gang tackling. They did not give up on plays.
Yes, there are problems. Too mamy turnovers, and penalties to overcome.
And the dropped passes.
Raiders WR's get very nervous on routes over the middle.
We need bigger WR's more suited to WC offense, slants, ins, posts.
And my God. Raiders opponents never seem to commit any penalties.
Last week Browns had 2 flags. Tonight, Donks had 2. Amazing !!!
So, according to the NFL officials. Raiders opponents are always near flawless against Raiders.
Raiders are never held, interfered with, or receive cheap shots.
When DHB was tackled during his route. Hey, no flag. It never happened.
When Palmer was clubbed in the head. Hey, no flag. It never happened.
Any Raiders held tonight ? Nope. Donks, just like Browns are perfect. It never happened.
In fact if you look back over this season. You will see numerous times where Raiders opponents played near perfect game.
Is this even possible ? Well, yes, in the twilight zone of the NFL officials, it is.
The Broncos made Oakland their new practice field tonight. That should change in a year or two. Jones, go apologize to your wife. Your spewing here will soon come to an end.
OTB, blow me. Take your little girl game back to patriot land. Get some help when you get there, you are surely short a quart.
JONES
00...you are right, watching this game, if there is a conspiracy, tonight would be very good proof. The refs couldn't wait to throw a flag on the Raiders when momentum started their way, the calls were mostly phantom, the penalties you pointed out by Denver did happen.
JONES
JONES,
This is what I'm saying.
I understand the Raiders are a bad team. They make a lot of mistakes. OK, I get it.
But how can their opponents always be nearly perfect ??
This is impossible.
When was the last time you saw Raiders get two calls in one game for their D-linemen being held ??
No 0-linemen ever put hands to face of Raiders defenders ? Really ?
Don't NFL officials realize they are not in a bubble anymore ?
With social networks, utube, and every game being on tv, everyone can see how crooked these guys are.
I use the word crooked, but what else can you call it ?
The penalties by opponents against Raiders is there for all to see, game after game.
The only people who don't see, are NFL officials, every game.
They are watching the Raiders very closely.
They are not watching the other team at all.
Crooked ? give me a better word.
Gotta generally agree with 00, although not an excuse for this terrible team. Always said there's bias. How else do you explain the Raiders leading the league every year (or near the top) with different players and coaches?
I guess I was nuts for having hope at halftime. Down 13-7 and getting the ball to begin the 3rd. As soon as Goodson returned the kickoff from 10 yards deep in the end zone, I knew it was false.
Jones mentioned that draft graphic from the last 8 years and that's THE reason for this disaster. You almost couldn't do worse if you tried. Really. And no significant FA signings (see Seymour, Briesel, Barnes, Moss, etc.)
Check this out.
Miami 3 penalties
donks 4 penalties
Falcons 2 penalties
Ravens 4 penalties
Bengals 3 penalties
Browns 2 penalties
donks 2 penalties
So, in seven games so far this season. Raiders opponents have committed less then 5 penalties in game.
Wow. So according to NFL officials, seven teams have played a near perfect game against Raiders.
How can this be ?? It doesn't make any sense.
Something has to be up. Don't ya think ?
00, just like the world we live in....how far does the rabbit hole go? Makes you wonder.
X....Seymour was traded for a top 1st round pick, so was Moss that included Nap Harris in the trade, Harris was another high pick bust. Very hard to win in pro sports when drafting top 10 most years and getting nothing but busts.
JONES
"Didn't see anything wrong with the coaching...."
Not on defense, and not in this game. However, it exposed what the coaches have been doing wrong in the first twelve games; relying too much on their front 4 to create pressure and playing too soft in coverage.
Raiders brought blitz presssure and almost doubled their sack total for the season.
Last year I thought Giordano was a decent player, but he's been the Raiders biggest liability in their secondary.
The offense is still in a coma. The best play call was the TD to McFadden.
Nice Potty mouth there Jones. Raider00, saw the glimmer as well... it'll take some time until the glimmer becomes a consistent, win-producing machine, like the Patriots.
See, the Patriots, they are what the Raiders used to look like... dominating and consistent.
They'll be back... 2016.
Have a nice day Jonesy.
Football first, team second.
On the Offense: The Drop party continues! Honestly, some of these guys look like better sculpted versions of my uncle trying to catch a long bomb at a family picnic. You just flat out DON'T SEE this kind of thing at this level.
Another thing worth mentioning, I thought the Touchdown drive in the 2nd quarter may have been there finest of the entire season. Smart play calling, quick reads, take what they give you, capped off by what I felt like was their best looking play of the year, the beautiful fake right, find Mcfadden back to the left on the screen for the Touchdown.
Truthfully, the entire drive reminded me a lot of the Denver offense. Had the Raiders learned from their mistakes?? Had Greg Knapp been forced to take a bathroom break?? Clearly it must have been the latter because from that point on it was back to the old "2 runs for nothing then an impossible 3rd and long." scheme, which has really become the Hallmark of the Greg Knapp era. So frustrating.
A quick note on the penalties: Look, we all know that penalties weren't the deciding factor in this game but I COMPLETELY agree with the fact that its an absolute crime to time and time again give one team a completely unfair advantage in the penalty department. Especially when everyone knows that you could call them on every play on either team.
My favorite little wrinkle is how once the game is decided the refs attempt to "even things up" by tacking on a couple of meaningless penalties on the team that's basically was given a clean slate when it still mattered. Oh, NOW the Broncos are holding??? Oh, NOW there was some illegal contact?? At times the NFL feels like the WWE in that regard.
One last thing, if we have the number one pick would it be completely irresponsible to take a flyer on Geno Smith?? With the defense the way it is it may seem foolish but what if that guy is the next RG3?
"Didn't see anything wrong with the coaching...."
Not on defense, and not in this game. However, it exposed what the coaches have been doing wrong in the first twelve games; relying too much on their front 4 to create pressure and playing too soft in coverage.
>>>>
I was going to say something similar... the team played hard at times, and the coaching at times was outstanding.
If this was what we had seen all season we'd still be in the playoff hunt... Denver is an outstanding well-coached team.
Shrug... it is what it is.
We need better players and more consistent outstanding coaching.
I agree with Cork... it prolly won't happen until 2004.
One last thing, if we have the number one pick would it be completely irresponsible to take a flyer on Geno Smith??
>>>>
No way McK doesn't trade down. That high of a pick we can get something from it.
There's still at least 5-6 teams in need of a QB and we have Carson under rock solid contract (he restructured).
I see the number one pick hands down.
KC beats us next week.
Btw... I cannot emphasize enough how much a mistake it would be to get rid of DA right now.
Nor how much of a mistake it would be to keep Knapp. The TD play to McF should be something that happens with regularity. The sweep play to begin the 2nd half with McF should have been the 30th time we saw such a pull.
Instead it was the first time Knapp called either all season.
HE DOESNT KNOW WHAT HE IS DOING!
McFadden up the gut is his favorite play.
How stupid does one have to be to call that? The entire team pulls tricks to get McFadden into open spaces. Duh... kinda like last year. If we keep Knapp next year, we need to trade McF. He has no clue what to do with him.
McFadden is worthless no matter who the coach is. He might make it as a third down back on a good team, but the kid can't take a hit. I saw that fact from day 1. Beyond that, he's the easiest tackle in the league when he's not in open space.
AvantGrape said...
McFadden is worthless no matter who the coach is. He might make it as a third down back on a good team, but the kid can't take a hit. I saw that fact from day 1. Beyond that, he's the easiest tackle in the league when he's not in open space.
>>>>
So why send him up the gut play after play after play after play?
He DID lead the league in rushing 5 games in for a reason JC... or did you forget this?
He's the second best open field runner in the league behind AP.
I have to agree with 'Grape', McFadden goes down on the first sign of contact, it's embarrassing to see him falling down with a hand on his shin. As far as running up the gut, he had cutback lanes and he still refuses to do it. 1st instinct for him is to try and outrun the edge.
He can't pick up the concept of cutting into a hole, Stewart is much more effective at this than McFaden.
1st play of the game for the Offense, McFadden 1 on 1 over the middle with a slow MLB, perfect play, perfect throw and what does he do? Thought he had great hands? It could have been a huge play, happened many times last night. That isn't on the coaches.
Reece looks better at HB than McFaden, McFaden will be known as a 1 trick pony who loved the Trainers table. And, a rumor, but McFaden also likes the strip clubs....he has that culture thing, not too bright, needs babysitting.
JONES
Anonymous said...."If this was what we had seen all season we'd still be in the playoff hunt"
Say what? What game were you watching? This game was what we have been seeing all year, players screwing up left and right and falling apart as units throughout the game. They made a few stops in the red zone, if they didn't, it would have been just another blowout. Keep them coming Gary, you are hilarious.
JONES
It's alarming how easy McFadden goes down sometimes. He has a propensity to slip and fall when making a cut. Then he pounds the football on the ground like to say he could have made a big play out of it. Reece, Goodson and Stewart have all looked better the this year.
Also, I thought McFadden was a better receiver. He's dropped more than his share of passes this year, and not just downfield but ones that are right in his hands in the flat.
If McFadden is gone next year, that will just add to the long list of first round draft busts... something that has definitely set this team back.
...yeah, NYR, too bad about McFadden, he's just a step or two away from greatness, really. Something's missing. Time to cut bait.
Also, I thought McFadden was a better receiver. He's dropped more than his share of passes this year, and not just downfield but ones that are right in his hands in the flat.
>>>>
Remember the first game when all CP did was dump off to McF to the point were people were remarking he was going to get him killed?
Something has happened since then, and I think it is a total loss of confidence.
When you have an OC that shouldn't even be in the NFL... things like this happen, IMO.
Can anyone here with a straight face tell me they hope Knapp is back next year? I don't even think Jones can drink that much Koolade.
Funny, Anonymous, Stewart, a small back, was being used the same way as Mcfaden and he looked in no danger of going down with a season ending injury. It's got nothing to do with how the Offense is being called, it has all to do with McFaden not being able to withstand NFL punishment or to grasp the Offense.
Knapp can be upgraded, but he isn't the main reason for the lack of the Offense to be consistent. Dropped balls, wrong routes, a QB who has a penchant for throwing picks at the absolute wrong time.
A starting RB that refuses to do what it takes to be productive in this Offense. I think this Offense can be productive, if the players are in place to make it work. Knapp isn't the best, but I see an Offense that can move the ball.
I also see players who make mistakes that just kill drives and momentum. If there were a higher standard of playmakers on this O, I could see it being good enough for the team to contend.
JONES
The same players on offense have performed at a higher level in the past. So I have to wonder, with all the mental errors and poor execution we've seen, if Knapp and the assistant coaches are getting the message across.
They've played 13 games. There's no execuse for the breakdowns to continue.
As it turns out, the Raiders were a better offense under Hue Jackson with Jason Campbell at QB than under Knapp with Palmer at QB.
That thought should scare some folks.
A starting RB that refuses to do what it takes to be productive in this Offense. I think this Offense can be productive, if the players are in place to make it work. Knapp isn't the best, but I see an Offense that can move the ball.
>>>
So if DA and McK decide to bring Knapp back you are cool with this? No problem.. just need better players?
What players do you think we need to run his insipid offense? I'm thinking all-pro's at every position. Perhaps HOFers at every position... that's how much I hate his offense.
I don't think I am alone.
If McK and DA want to give the fans the finger, lets watch them keep Knapp out of sheer stubbornness.
Then endure 20,000 people per game... nobody is that stupid.
IT COULD HAPPEN THOUGH!!
Our current trajectory has us picking 2-4.
I have mixed feelings about trading the 1st round pick for additional picks. On the one hand, we need blue-chip, 1st round, impact quality but on the other hand, our cupboard is so bare that we need the extra bodies.
No question that McKenzie needs to make his mark in the upcoming draft.
Take a look at our 1st round selectons from 2000 to present:
2000 SeaBass (major reach)
2001 Derrick Gibson (bust)
2002 Philip Buchanon (bust), Napoleon Harris (serviceable)
2003 Nnamdi Asomugha (pro bowler), Tyler Brayton (bust)
2004 Robert Gallery (serviceable OG)
2005 Fabian Washington (bust)
2006 Michael Huff (serviceable)
2007 JaMarcus Russell (major bust)
2008 Darren McFadden (injury prone)
2009 DHB (semi-serviceable/bust)
2010 Rolando McClain (out the door)
2011 no 1st round pick
In summary, this is a horrible, pathetic ROI for 13 1st round picks. Guys who are complete busts and/or out of the league litter this group.
Calico Jack said...
In summary, this is a horrible, pathetic ROI for 13 1st round picks. Guys who are complete busts and/or out of the league litter this group.
>>>
Isn't that all the more reason to trade down? Some of those picks were applauded at the time as sensible picks! Gallery, Huff, and McClain all good good grades from the experts... especially Gallery.
Its easier now to trade down than it used to be now that they have sensible rookie contract rules, if St. McK doesn't trade out of his top 5 pick, I will think he is remiss. It should be a no-brainer with all the holes to fill.
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Thinking about buying a Janikowski jersey, funny you mentioned him
Hate to say it, but the Raiders should follow what the Seattle Shithawks did. New coach came in, blew up the roster, brought in a ton of young talent and they are contenders in 2 short years. IMO, McKenzie will have the roster in much better shape for next year, this is where he shines. Draft days are going to be much better for this team moving forward. It's going to be interesting to watch how it plays out.
JONES
My takes now that we have seen whatever that is there to see in 2012. There is absolutely no need to make pompous pretense about the team's direction:
1. Let RM and DA nuke this team. Until the roster is significantly changed, all we will end up seeing is a repeat performance of constipation.
2. Err on the side of trading down for more daft picks in the near future, especially if we have an (un)enviable chore to do something with anything that is #1 - #10 overall selection. We need loads of fresh bodies. We do not have much choice.
3. Give RM and DA some break. We have witnessed the effects of chronic coaching instability. Are we not getting sick and tired of this ... even feel like vomiting?!?
There will be no short-cuts or magical potions to turn this franchise around. It is going to require building the team from the ground up over the next few offseasons primarily through the draft and shrewd free agent acquisitions.
I am very interested to see the stategy employed by McKenzie in rebuilding the team. There are some many areas of the team that need to be infused with good football players that I'm curious to see how McK's priorities take shape.
It's a crying shame we had to wait 10 years for the rebuilding process to begin. Unfortunately, there's no guarantee it will work this time either. All we can do is wait and see.
I'm probably in the camp that says trade down our 1st rd pick and acquire more picks (depends on who's there).
Also, it wouldn't upset me to see one or both coordinators (and ST coach) replaced. Stability and continuity that we need most will come from McKenzie and Allen.
We can talk about poor execution all day, but sometimes bad performace is the result of bad instruction. Conveying the message is a critical component that none of us get to see.
"We can talk about poor execution all day, but sometimes bad performace is the result of bad instruction"...
Stab in the dark? These players are supposed to be PROFESSIONALS. That means they should be able to catch, block, tackle, cover, read a play etc, at a very high level. Coaches design the plays and it's up to the players to execute those plays.
What we see is players getting open (coaching) and then players dropping the ball (players). We see RB's coming off the practise squad and playing at a fairly high level and gaining yards. Then we see the so-called superstar, fall down, drop passes, run into the backs of his own players, try to outrun the end when it isn't there (player). Then we see missed tackles (players), blown assignements (players) and an overall poor ability to read plays (players).
I see the Defensive coaches putting their players in positions to make plays, it's all the can do, the players have to make it happen, they can't, case closed.
Let's move on, I think we know the players are gone, so you may as well get behind the new regime until it has been proven that it is the coaches who are "unable to coach up" the players.
JONES
Sorry to upset you, Jones. It was pretty apparent the Raiders played in a different defense on Thursday, with far for pressure packages and tighter coverages, than they had played in the first 12 games. The results were better, except for the laser accuracy of Peyton Manning.
In addition to occasional sloppy play, the Raiders roster is also capable of doing what they're told. To some extent, that was apparent on Thurs.
"...so you may as well get behind the new regime until it has been proven that it is the coaches who are "unable to coach up" the players."
What do you think I've been saying? That's pretty obvious, isn't it?
They played a different Defense? What, they implemented a new Defense on a 4 day week? CLUELESS.
Your comments don't make me mad, NY, they are fun to pick apart because they are so 'Gary' like. If the Raider roster was able to 'do as they are told', then why have they only won 3 games? Why are there mental and physical errors all over the field? Why are players being benched? HILARIOUS.
JONES
Bartell and Schmitt are now cut, have brought McClain back, for now. Purging has begun. Obviously, it's not just Mr.Davis players that are targeted, which is a good sign. Gary always points to the "big ego's" in the Raiders front office and coaching. Looks by these cuts today, that it's more about finding who is right for the team going forward. That is good news.
JONES
Your comments don't make me mad, NY, they are fun to pick apart because they are so 'Gary' like. If the Raider roster was able to 'do as they are told', then why have they only won 3 games? Why are there mental and physical errors all over the field? Why are players being benched? HILARIOUS.
>>>
How did they get to 8 wins the last two seasons then?
BTW, I guess there is a local radio show that is saying the CP is becoming disinterested and that the players don't respect Allen at all.
If true, we have a long row to hoe here folks.
Unless the wild Gruden rumors are true, Allen is not going anywhere, and I doubt anyone wants CP and his salary.
I've noticed it in CP's face for the first time Thursday myself...
Yeah, heard it before, Anonymous anonymous. These players haven't respected a coach yet. That's part of that 'culture' thing. If you respected the coaches, the other players didn't respect you.
It was Mr.Davis that was to be respected, the coaches were figureheads who Mr.Davis disrespected frequently. These players don't believe in the normal chain of command, so it is just another part of the new regime that they are unable to adapt to.
JONES
"radio show" rumors and CP's face -- yup it must be true Gary.
Keep on scripting the narrative to fit your viewpoint with no tangible proof or sources.
Any player that has quit on DA or doesn't respect DA will be shown the door and for good reason.
FACT:
DA is a well respected coach by the coaching fraternity and former players that he has personally coached (ie. John Fox and Champ Bailey) who are on record as saying he has the right stuff.
BTW, CP3 has given video interviews the past 12 weeks and he has consistently communicated that the team is continuing to work hard to improve as a TEAM. His message has been of the variety of a grounded leader with no hidden agenda.
Is he frustrated and disappointed by how the season has transpired? Of course.
He is a competitor. He if wasn't disappointed then I'd be worried.
Come on Gary. You can do some much better. Saying you don't like DA or don't think he is good enough to be a head coach is ok by me since it would be your opinion.
Conjuring up rumors from a radio show and being a "facial expression" expert is just lame and you know it.
"It was pretty apparent the Raiders played in a different defense on Thursday, with far for pressure packages and tighter coverages, than they had played in the first 12 games."
Here we go again with the broad brush stroke, black & white analysis. Guess you didn't watch the ATL game.
Look at Stanford Routt, soon to be EX Houston Texan. Can't even play special teams to save his career. And he was considerd a top player on the Raiders....more proof.
JONES
Come on Gary. You can do some much better. Saying you don't like DA or don't think he is good enough to be a head coach is ok by me since it would be your opinion.
Conjuring up rumors from a radio show and being a "facial expression" expert is just lame and you know it.
>>>
Fair enough. I am all in on CP, as I hope you know... and will wait to see with Allen. I haven't seen even a glimpse from him yet to think he is anything special. Not even one iota.
What are you seeing that you are so impressed with that I am missing?
I don't do BLIND FAITH. Sorry... give me even ONE tangible. One player that has improved maybe?
Patriots played a great game, no wonder, their offensive line coach has been with them for THIRTEEN YEARS! This being said, and having a VERY healthy football relationship, if the Raiders fire coach Allen in before 2015, they are asking for repeat failure, because the only thing worse than poor draft choices is poor leadership choices. It's Christmas, and it's that time of year I like to give a little more than usual, even to you miserable scallywags. Here goes: Why are you a Raider Fan, and what is one thing that could cause you to not be. Best answer gets a really nice Raiders jersey, I'm not kidding. Only rule is: must be logical. You cannot claim to have Silver and Black blood, and I can have nothing to do with past performance or logos or geography. Good luck! (Yes, you can play too, Jones). Merry Christmas and Good Luck.
This comment has been removed by the author.
...that is "IT" can have nothing to do with past performance, typo, sorry...
TAKE, you may enter this too, I'll jusge without prejudice.
Jersey is XL/XXL and player is TBD, but it is not JaMarcus Russell. That would be a keeper if I had one.
...tie breaker or 2 point conversion: Who is the most effective player on the team, besides Janikowski, and why.
I'm with you on CP. He has been a first class leader who has been accountable for his actions.
During these tough times, he hasn't given in to the easy default option of quitting. Far from it. CP seems to have a firm grasp on the difficult situation at hand but is continuing to be a PROFESSIONAL.
He has been a solid, lead by example vet for the younger players who need a role model to follow instead of me-first idiots like McClain.
As far as DA, you might not see his leadership qualities but I do. The results on the field have been very poor. In spite of these poor results, I have admired how he has conducted himself. I think he has been put in an extremely difficult spot but will come out the other side due to his firm conviction in what he is trying to do.
As far as players that have "improved", there really are very few candidates. The players that I've seen improve the most are the ones who were waiver wire discards, practice squad players, rookies, undrafted players, and players thrown into the fire by default -- guys like Adams, Stewart, Burris, Streeter, Crinor, Reece.
Some of these guys have been inconsistent partly due to inexperience and poor play by their units but at times have exceeded expectations. Not much to hang your hat on but it is difficult for an individuals to truly shine on a regular basis when the team as a whole is playing so poorly.
What I'm dying to see is for this team to be infused with motivated, talented players with high football IQs and for there to be a sense that the franchise is truly building something.
Unfortunately, building in earnest will need to wait until the 2013 off season.
OTB, here are my answers to your two questions:
1. Because I am.
2. Nothing.
If you're looking for logic, then you're barking up the wrong tree. Fan is short for fanatic. By definition, it is illogical.
XL is way too big for me, so I don't need the jersey. Just wanted to answer the challenge.
That's funny! Thanks Take, you're a good sport. Is that part of being fanatical? ;) Next?
I will decide who wins on Friday, and ship to who's worthy on Saturday afternoon so you can feel Minty Fresh during the playoffs.
BTW, Because I Am is, sadly, my answer to number one as well, and I don't accept it either. That's why I'm digging here (get it?)
Anyone who says that he has no reason for believing what they believe, and, therefore, settles for just about anything is, well, fanatical.
I CAN handle the truth. Can You?
"Here we go again with the broad brush stroke, black & white analysis. Guess you didn't watch the ATL game"
CJ - I stand corrected. The Atlanta games makes two games the Raiders actually dialed up creative blitz packages and played tighter coverage; and both instances yielded better results.
The Raiders had 6 sacks in those two games, and regularly pressured two QBs that don't take many sacks. In ATL, that pressure led to 3 INTs.
Outside of those two games, with limited blitzing and often playing soft coverages, the Raiders managed only 11 sacks and +- 5 INTs.
So we've seen the Raiders dial it up in two games, and both led to positive results, even if they were both losses.
Talk about changing the Raiders' culture, what about changing the culture here, where anyone who doesn't share the same opinion is labeled "clueless" and ridiculed.
Take: so what you're saying is, if the Raiders blew up the coaches again and half the players, every other year, you'd still stay? Dude, what happened to a Commitment to Excellence. First time ever, I'm calling "Bullshit". What would you be celebrating. I think most of you might be really afraid to answer this question because you are hanging on to old glories and really need this team to be good to back up the lifestyle you've created around it. Like i said, it's not about wins, it's about loyalty. Then wins happen.
Be an excellent fan.
Coach Oak.
Your answer is in my latest take!
Oh poor Ny, he is being ridiculed...stop playing the victim. You remind me of that little brother who doesn't know when to stop, ya keep yapping, trying to get that response, then when you get it, you go crying to mommy. If you don't want the reaction, why keep poking for it?
No way a team can implement a new style of Defense in a 4 day period. When you suggest that this is what happened, you deserve to be ridiculed. If you don't know these types of things about the sport, then you shouldn't be writing like you know it. Obviously what you write, shows you don't know. You aren't fooling anyone.
JONES
Hello. And Bye. Thank you very much.
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