A Question of Sabotage
Damn, the Raiders sure know how to make news, even when they lose...
Indeed, the biggest Super Bowl story of this week revolved around the Silver & Black, with Tim Brown alleging that Bill Callahan may have "sabotaged" the Raiders' chances against Tampa Bay in the Super Bowl ten years ago.
Brown clarified his remarks on the Dan Patrick Show yesterday, pointing out that, as he said in his original remarks, "We called it sabotage."
Not it was sabotage.We called it sabotage.
And you can hardly blame that sentiment after everything that went down on that ill-fated Super Bowl Sunday.
I encourage you to listen to yesterday's Dan Patrick Show podcasts, not only for the segment with Tim Brown, but also the one with Howie Long.
As Howie points out, it almost certainly wasn't sabotage, but it was seemingly gross negligence from a coaching standpoint.
First off, the Raiders had a game plan centered around running the ball, despite having a strong aerial attack that got them to the Super Bowl. This is because the Buccaneers defense was quick on their feet, but not big up front. A run-oriented game plan was designed to exploit Tampa Bay's weakness, and soften the core to open up opportunities.
Then, on Friday, the coaching staff suddenly changed the game plan to focus on the pass, leaving the players scratching their heads. The original plan seemed strategically sound, so why make a switch at the 11th hour? Barrett Robbins was apparently one of the players who was particularly impacted by this sudden change in preparation and responsibility.
Then, on Sunday, the Raiders failed to disguise the the plays and audibles that Jon Gruden knew all too well. It was a recipe for a blowout.
Bill Callahan once called the Raiders the stupidest team. He may have been right, but he certainly wasn't exempt from the moniker.
Regarding the Friday night switch in game plans, it's speculated that Al Davis may have had something to do with it. Even Brown admitted it was possible Mr. Davis had commanded a change in plan, saying it had happened before. Is it possible that Mr. Davis had no say in the matter, and that Callahan simply made an executive, and ultimately confounding, decision to play right into the hands of Tampa Bay?
Regardless, there's no question that the Raiders' last Super Bowl appearance was a debacle, and that to this day, it remains a complete head scratcher. After the game, the stunned players were left to wonder, and they still do...
Indeed, the biggest Super Bowl story of this week revolved around the Silver & Black, with Tim Brown alleging that Bill Callahan may have "sabotaged" the Raiders' chances against Tampa Bay in the Super Bowl ten years ago.
Brown clarified his remarks on the Dan Patrick Show yesterday, pointing out that, as he said in his original remarks, "We called it sabotage."
Not it was sabotage.We called it sabotage.
And you can hardly blame that sentiment after everything that went down on that ill-fated Super Bowl Sunday.
I encourage you to listen to yesterday's Dan Patrick Show podcasts, not only for the segment with Tim Brown, but also the one with Howie Long.
As Howie points out, it almost certainly wasn't sabotage, but it was seemingly gross negligence from a coaching standpoint.
First off, the Raiders had a game plan centered around running the ball, despite having a strong aerial attack that got them to the Super Bowl. This is because the Buccaneers defense was quick on their feet, but not big up front. A run-oriented game plan was designed to exploit Tampa Bay's weakness, and soften the core to open up opportunities.
Then, on Friday, the coaching staff suddenly changed the game plan to focus on the pass, leaving the players scratching their heads. The original plan seemed strategically sound, so why make a switch at the 11th hour? Barrett Robbins was apparently one of the players who was particularly impacted by this sudden change in preparation and responsibility.
Then, on Sunday, the Raiders failed to disguise the the plays and audibles that Jon Gruden knew all too well. It was a recipe for a blowout.
Bill Callahan once called the Raiders the stupidest team. He may have been right, but he certainly wasn't exempt from the moniker.
Regarding the Friday night switch in game plans, it's speculated that Al Davis may have had something to do with it. Even Brown admitted it was possible Mr. Davis had commanded a change in plan, saying it had happened before. Is it possible that Mr. Davis had no say in the matter, and that Callahan simply made an executive, and ultimately confounding, decision to play right into the hands of Tampa Bay?
Regardless, there's no question that the Raiders' last Super Bowl appearance was a debacle, and that to this day, it remains a complete head scratcher. After the game, the stunned players were left to wonder, and they still do...
posted by Raider Take at 9:10 AM
108 Comments:
Wasn't Callahan's call...if it was, he would have been fired for cause. There is no way Mr.Davis would of accepted it, unless it was his call. Maybe Mr.Davis was trying to fool Gruden. One thing is for sure....it's been downhill ever since.
JONES
I just like your writing, Take. You foiled my plans to vacate again. many of your followers are much like the media, pointing fingers. I'll ignore them. This is a blog that i respect, the only one I follow, and, well, we all know how cranky some Silverandblackians can get. Especially when the team SUCKS. Calico, for example, a boatload of good stats and obviously embarrassed by this team's ack of anything good. Advice: don't let anything outside your arms length be your persona. nuff said.
Once again, a talented, distinct unbiased article. Now it all makes sense, who can really blame Robbins, already a little off balance (respectfully submitted here). Whatever the case, Gruden being gone hurt the team. Robbins being AWOL hurt the team. Al Davis, I believe, hurt the team.
My mother in law loves our kids, aged 9 and 10, and babies them to no end. She is not, and should not, be a disciplinarian. That's me and mama's job. The problem with Davis is that he USED to be a great daddy, but became, um OLD, and refused to hand the reins over.
So, whether Tim is right or wrong, it really doesnt matter.
Gruden was a really good coach.
Callahan had a nearly impossible mission ; Fool Gruden while dealing with Davis.
Tampa was THAT GOOD.
Oak was too...
Once again, OAK beat themselves, with a little help from he other team and their much-missed coach.
Nonetheless, 2016. Maaaaybe.
Raider conspirators can really have fun with this. Let's look at this, at the time of the SB, Al Davis had 7 lawsuits against the League. A good conspiracy links this all the way back to the League office. Here is how you can do that (if you are a conspirator).
When Davis traded Gruden to Tampa, he prevented any assistant coaches (Callahan included) to jump ship. Gruden wanted to take Callahan with him to be his OC, and to prevent Gruden from doing so, Al made Callahan HC, forcing Callahan to honor the rest of his contract (which ended the year after the Super Bowl).
It was well known that Callahan hated Davis and the Raiders Organization before he was HC, especially with Al treating everyone like Comiskey did the Black Sox. So Tagliabue approaches Callahan and Gruden on this matter, knowing that Callahan may be fired after the SB.
Callahan give Gruden the game plan with audibles. How else would the Bucs know every audible and practice for it? No other team has EVER made that claim in a Super Bowl. That was a first, and the only time a team has ever said such thing. To me, this is the biggest part of negligence on Callahan's part, and the one area he needs to answer for. Al Davis is a smart enough football guy to know better, and would have suggested to change the audibles; which is why I don't believe Davis asked for the change. And remember, Lombardi was the GM.
Gruden wins, Tagliabue doesn't have to give the trophy to the guy who has 7 lawsuits against the League; but Callahan doesn't get fired.
Instead, he changes everything and sabotages the next season, insuring he won't be re-signed as HC; and part of that was ending Gannon's career. He makes the "dumbest team in America" comment, not as a knock to the players, but as a knock to Al Davis for never figuring it out.
Now that's a great conspiracy!
Do I believe it? No, I think Callahan was negligent in how he game planned for the Super Bowl. I don't believe Al Davis changed the plan. He may have suggested a little more passing plays; which may have caused Callahan to change the plan entirely; but I don't think Davis would have called for an entire change of the plan. I think Callahan changed it entirely in hopes to be fired; but Al Davis didn't do it to teach him a lesson that he wasn't going to get out of his contract that easily. Further igniting the fued between Al and Callahan; which carried over the next season. I think Tim and Jerry, and others, are frustrated with Callahan for quitting on them the next season because he knew it was his last, and he didn't care.
The bottom line for me, it was 10 years ago; and the Raiders haven't been the same since. I want to turn the page, I want the Raiders to play better and reach the promise land again, and I want the organization to be ran better than it has under the last decade with Davis. I know this isn't going to happen overnight, and we are making strides; I'm just ready for it to be there.
JUST WIN, BABY!
It’s the Super Bowl for crying out loud. What is the chance Al Davis left it entirely up to Bill Callahan? Zero?!
Perhaps in Callahan's contempt toward being overridden like that, he intentionally neglected to change the audibles.
Sounds like it ended up being the perfect storm of stupidity and spite.
Another not-so-proud moment in Raiders history.
'stupidy & spite' 'negligence & incompetence'
dysfunction & mismanagement' ... in the end it is a blown opportunity and unfortunately another example of the Raiders unnecessarily airing their dirty laundry to the public.
"Calico, for example, a boatload of good stats and obviously embarrassed by this team's lack of anything good. Advice: don't let anything outside your arms length be your persona. nuff said."
OTB, I know that you are crushed that your boyfriend Brady is sitting at home but seriously, what does this dribble even mean?
It would be interesting if we could roll back time and switch everything to a run-first offense to see what happens.
The full play by play is here... the first pass heavy drive got us a three point lead... and we did try two Zach Crocket runs back 2 back on our third possession to no avail
The fourth possession they ran a running play before Gannon's first int on 3rd and two (how many times did we complete that pass that year?)
The int's started raining after that... the game just spiraled out of control. We were still using running plays but we just fell too far behind.
shrug
Forgot the link:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/200301260rai.htm
...if Brady came available and Oak had a shot and didn't, that would be dumb. Nuff said?
Tim Brown has been telling the sab-o-tagee tale for years now.
Here he is in 2008 saying it:
http://youtu.be/aPdGlF76Jg8
Way too late to back off of it now, Timmah!
Prolly not gonna help ya get in the HOF this year, Timmah!
~ Stick'em
Senior Bowl on NFL Network today at 4 EST. Raiders.com had a really cool video of Raiders QB Coach instructing players in practice drills.
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I work with a guy that has close ties in Chicago and he mentioned that Da Bears were targeting Brandon Meyers this off season, we need to get him signed already!
Topher
Anonymous Anonymous said...
I work with a guy that has close ties in Chicago and he mentioned that Da Bears were targeting Brandon Meyers this off season, we need to get him signed already!
Topher
>>>
We need a TE that can BLOCK. He was the lowest rated TE in blocking last year.. no one was even close to second.
I'd roll the dice with Ausberry and Gordon next year rather than spend much capital on a pass-only TE.
Is there a formal TE rating system for blocking?
Raiders will need carry 3 TEs. IMO, Meyers should be one of them based his ability to get open and catch the ball. Teach him to block.
His blocking had to be better than our RG Brisiel. Rewatched some of his play against the Chiefs and something was wrong with him "cause" he definatly had mobility issuses.I hoping for a upgrade on the O-line in this years draft.Eric Fisher?
Topher
No problem with re-signing Myers if it a reasonable contract.
Breaking the bank, using the franchise tag, etc --> definitely no.
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Blogger nyraider said...
Is there a formal TE rating system for blocking?
>>>>
Try here: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol2012
We were 24th in right end blocking and 32nd in left end blocking (this isn't specific to TE's but gives you a glimpse of our problems.)
We were 10th and 15th in those two categories in 2011. And we wonder why McF couldn't get going? He needs to get around the edges...
If you look closely at some of the stats at that site you can see where we need to spend money. Our top rated WR was 56th (Streater). MORE WRS!
Lechlar was 2nd from the BOTTOM in punting last year (Thanx but GOODBYE.)
The d-line was in the top ten in run stopping (the open field rank was 30th.) Restructure Tommy Kelly!
We were third from the bottom in hurries (BOLSTER THE LINE.)
Seabass was first in FGs (resign him long term now.)
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A big part of the Raiders struggles with run blocking was ZBS. Assuming we upgrade at LG, I would expect 2013 stats to improve under a power scheme, with or without a better blocking TE.
Meyers was the Raiders leading pass catcher.
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Giants cut Ahmad Bradshaw today. There is a good RB to back up McFadden to add bruising power.
nyraider said...
A big part of the Raiders struggles with run blocking was ZBS. Assuming we upgrade at LG, I would expect 2013 stats to improve under a power scheme, with or without a better blocking TE.
Meyers was the Raiders leading pass catcher.
>>>>
Only because he was the safety valve on every single passing play in Knapps moronic offense (which means he rarely did any pass blocking, regardless of situation.)
Palmer was under constant duress (third in the league in hurries) thus relied on the safety valve too much... especially since we could never keep the defense honest with a running attack.
It was basically a circular offense... if you never use the TE to block because you use him as the safety valve, the safety valve will be used a lot.
If you blame the system, why blame Myers for lack of blocking and discount his pass catching ability?
He had 79 catches and you want to displace him with two guys that probably didn't have 10 catches combined.
79 rec is not an average year for a TE.
Raiders have the 4th easiest schedule in 2013, based on opponents 2012 W-L recods.
The excuses have to stop now!
No more strapped by draft, player or salary cap issues. Or, my favorite, 'it takes a year or two for players to fit into a new system.'
Raiders have a $4.5 million carryover in cap space from last year, and the cap is supposed to go up.
Both the Chargers and Cheifs have tunrover in coaching and GM... and we know from our own experience that a new GM/HC can not be successful in the first year (or is that just for the Raiders?)
Combine that with one of the weakest schedules in the NFL....
Wake up Raiders!
nyraider said...
If you blame the system, why blame Myers for lack of blocking and discount his pass catching ability?
He had 79 catches and you want to displace him with two guys that probably didn't have 10 catches combined.
79 rec is not an average year for a TE.
>>>>
He's got great hands, and CP obviously trusts him more than any of his other receivers... but lets both be honest here... THE GUY CANNOT BLOCK! Especially run blocking.
Do we bench him on running plays?
That sure seems like a "tell" to me.
I dunno... I am unsure of how much he is worth as a free agent. Its hard to replace a TE with hands like that, agreed... but a TE still has to be able to block!!!
IMO, you're making too much of it. The entire O-line struggled to block in Knapp's ZBS, yet you're singling out Myers.
Remember too, Myers is a young player still learning his trade. He's not a vet that is set in his ways, and I wouldn't presume him to be incapable.
2012 was a breakout year for the kid, and you're kicking him to the curb. Ouch!
The TE position requires above average blocking skills AND pass catching abilities.
I hope that Myers is kept at a reasonable, incentive laden contract AND is capable of improving his blocking skills.
No question that he needs to get bigger, stronger, and improve his technique.
In my mind, it would be foolish to tag him. Going into his 5th season, he is a "vet". My concern would be that at this point in his career (4 years college + 4 years in the pros), his upside to his blocking skills is somewhat limited at best.
5th-year vet status aside, last year is the first time myers had been given extended playing time, and he played in a flawed system.
He's potentially one of the few bright spots on a marginal roster.
Good read-
Im all for trading the pick for more picks. This writer posits a McFadden trade to include a top pick, which I would also be for.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/news/20130208/oakland-raiders-offseason-preview/#ixzz2KLLxjm6l
nyraider said...
IMO, you're making too much of it. The entire O-line struggled to block in Knapp's ZBS, yet you're singling out Myers.
>>>
I am not the only one. PFF brought him up as the worst run blocking TE in the league at about week 14. They said there wasn't anyone close to second worst.
Here's a fun thing I did.. A play that exemplifies why McFadden had such a horrible year. Veldheer and Cooper BOTH whiff on a perfectly designed screen play that would have gone HOUSE last year:
http://tinyurl.com/auduevb
McFadden is injury-prone, doesn't have elite vision and goes down easy. Time to cut our losses. Building a system around McFadden is offensive suicide.
Gary, When I look at those six pictures I see McFadden about 2-1/2 yards to wide, it looks to me that if he followed a little closer to #66's backside he would have set up the block by #67 and could have gotten some yards after it. I think your pictures illustrate IMHO why we shouldn't use McFadden in a zone scheme and we should use him in a power blocking game. Though the play itself isn't a zone read it looks as though he over thought it by looking for the cut back istead of just bringing the pain!( good pics Gary!) Just my perspective.
Topher
Just watched the interviews with the new coaches, they all seem to be impressed with Allen and Reggie and the direction of the Org.....coaching staff has definitely been upgraded, now it's Reggies turn to get the roster closer to a good NFL roster.
Sounds like the Offense will be tailored to fit McFadden. I was hoping for a different direction there, but maybe McFadden can put in a full season at a top level for once? Palmer will have to restructure, Reggie needs to bring in playmakers on Defense....as bad as this last year was, progress is being made, IMO.
The direction of the team is looking more stable and the 1st year 'iron out' period is over, it's only uphill from here. I believe the team has bottomed out and will climb back to respectability, soon.
All these years of losing and chaos and the fans are still here......the tide is turning.
JONES
Jones,
The key to me is this upcoming draft. We need to start filling the roster with football professionals; guys that love football, good character, coachable, high football acumen, and a core to build a roster foundation.
Yes, football players, not projects with questionable football ability. McKenzie will do his job well, IMO. A rough 1st season, but it is going in the right direction.
JONES
Has Steve Corkran lost his mind? Pick up Peyton Hillis and Woodson?
Cork is not a football guru, most of the writers have never played the game. They are just trying to create views and in turn create followers. So they try hit 'buzz' buttons. Hillis is way over rated and Woodson will go to a contender.
JONES
The draft is critical. This is supposed to be McKenzie's area of expertise.
It was also Kiffin's forte (as a college recruiter), but we know Kiffin had little say in his first draft with the Raiders... and no say in his second.
At least now we can be fairly confident the organization (i.e, in terms of the all important relationship between GM & HC) is running with open communication and without personal agenda.
I dunno. Not a good sign that the organization is still looking at McFadden as the centerpiece of the team's offense. It's an easy call for me: it's not going to be a 16-game solution.
BTW, Sparano is a joke IMO. I don't get it.
"BTW, Sparano is a joke IMO. I don't get it."
Why is Sparano a "joke"? The guy is a highly respected, experienced football coach especially on the offensive side of the ball (OLine, TEs, OC).
In his 1st season as Head Coach for the Dolphins, he took a 1 win team the previous year to the playoffs w/a remarkable 10 game turnaround.
I agree, Reggie hires a young HC, most bitch. Reggie hires experienced coordinators and coaches, people bitch. They try to turn around a drowned franchise and people bitch because it wasn't done in 1 season.
The team so short on talent, draft picks, cap hell, a Front Office that was from the 60's and they wonder why.....why is the team so crappy, why can't the coaches squeeze a playoff performance out of a poor roster......then they bring up Hue Jackson like he was the greatest coach ever.... It's hard being a Raider fan. BUT, I see progress, patience is the key.
JONES
Sparano can't keep a job in the NFL. Seriously, how many times has he been fired since he started coaching in the NFL? A lot from what I recall.
He's a retread coach. I give him two years, max.
He's coaching the O-line, most coaches that get hired are retreads, thing is, he was a HC, OC, he will bring experience to the staff that they sorely needed. Olsen too, staff has been upgraded with good seasoned coaches, what else do you want?
JONES
I believe positional coaches need to have leadership abilities, excellent communication skills, and strong football knowledge in order to maximize the talent within the unit. Sparano is very well qualified to lead our OLine.
Olsen should've been the Head Coach in Jacksonville after Del Rio was let go. He did a phenominal job with Jacksonville the last time they made the playoffs. I believe that was one of the best playoff games I saw in a long time, was between the Jags and Ravens about 3-4 years back.
I would like to see us trade down from the #3 pick to get a low 1st Round and back into the 2nd Round. I do think we need another RB. I like Ball out of Wisconsin. A big bruising back that can take the runs up the middle, and suprise you on the outside. I think we can get him in the 2nd Round, possibly the 3rd.
We are going to be cutting some guys too, or restructuring their contract. Palmer is one of them, and I think DHB and Kelly will be cut outright. I don't think we cut Rolando, because we have nothing to gain from it; and Reggie said, "We will cut him when it benefits the team." It wouldn't benefit the team monetarily, we wouldn't save anything against the cap. I place money he rides the pine, or makes special teams.
We have a lot of holes to fill, and not a lot of cap space. Say goodbye to the team as we know it; I think the roster is going to look completely different this season.
As far as the coaching on offense goes, these are the kind of coaches I expected to have last season; experienced, power block philosophy, and the ability to work with the talent we have. These guys took a hard knock on Knapp by saying that you cannot hold yourself to one style, but you have to be willing to use multiple styles. I don't believe Knapp will ever be above a position coach in the NFL again. I think if he has an OC job, it will be in the NCAA.
It's very obvious that McKenzie and Allen had many hurdles to overcome, e.g., front office, draft, salary cap, lack of talent, etc., and probably moreso than any team in the NFL, but that doesn't change the simple fact they whiffed in Year 1 by bringing in Knapp and allowing him to implement a system that was not suited for the team.
That's not a small whiff and it cost the Raiders another year. Now they are essentially hoping to go back to what was successful the previous couple years.
It cost them another year? I think it goes deeper than that......looking back, no matter who was taking over the team, last year would of been a disaster no matter. If Bill Parcells was brought in, IMO, it would have been close to the same results.
The Org had to start over and last year was it's starting point. Time was limited to hiring a coaching staff and Org, who were starting over with little talent and no cap space to help fix it.
Looking back, what quality assistant coach would want to come into a situation like that? So, like the low talent on the roster, the coaching needed to be upgraded, they have done it. Last year cannot be blamed on the new regime, they had too much to overcome in too little time.
Fans should give last year a pass, what was done last year was needed to move forward towards a winner. Better coaches mixed with better players (do your thing, Reggie) and the team will show progress.
No, Hue Jackson would not have been the answer, he wanted to change the roster, he had lost the team and his last 5 games the team went 1-4.
Throw the Hue thing under the bus, it's gone. Realize that the team is still making moves to upgrade and will continue to do so. Last year was rough, again looking back, it was bound to happen. I will not throw this regime under the bus when they were put in a very unwinnable situation. At least let it play out before you judge.
JONES
Unfortunately, year 2 of the Allen/Mck regime will be another necessary transistional year.
I like the coaches added this off-season to include the very respected, expereinced ST Coach April.
Look forward to the roster being improved and molded into the DA/McK's players.
"If Bill Parcells was brought in, IMO, it would have been close to the same results."
Really? That's a reach.
More likely, he wouldn't have needed to fire his OC and ST Coach and we'd be in a much better place heading into Year 2.
"what quality assistant coach would want to come into a situation like that?"
Situation like what, exactly? Reggie McKenzie is highly regarded as one of the top GM prospects in the league, and Dennis Allen similarly as HC.
Actually, I see just the opposite. I see coaches (at least motivated ones) wanting to be part of something they can build from the ground up.
Not everybody is Norv Turner and can be handed a team at the top of its game only to screw it up.
Last year would have been a free pass for any decent OC and scheme that had a future. Look no further than Jason Tarver, who still has yet to prove himself.
Allen knew Knapp was strapped with bad players and he still failed on every possible level.
NYR,
Everyone agrees Knapp was a poor choice. Definitely a whiff.
The dismal season was a combination of the 'perfect shit storm' in that there was a huge transition that needed to take place in a short window of time.
By the time Reggie hired DA, it was late in the process to put together the new staff.
$30+M over the cap, next to no draft picks, and a roster that required many upgrades (w/o cap space or picks mind you).
New owner, new GM, new HC, new coaching staff, and many new waiver wire/late draft pick players. Not exactly a recipe for instant success.
Going forward into Year 2, we've upgraded the coaches and have more draft picks. I certainly would hope that DA/McK learned valuable lessons in year 1 and we can finally rebuild the franchise in earnest. Stability and traction will hopefully take shape this season although the roster itself has a LONG ways to go espcially with the remaining hangover of our cap mess. We are still $4.5 over the cap with major weeding out last year.
The point being, the mess was next to impossible to clean up in 1 year.
No question, the mess was bigger than 1 year, maybe bigger than 2-3. But no need to make excuses why Knapp was hired. I'm sure Allen had choices that didn't include fitting a round peg into a square hole. And, based on where we've been, it's easy to say we've upgraded the coaches, but is that enough? Remember, it was Allen's judgement that brought Knapp to the Raiders.
I fully believe in the Mckenzie, and I still think Allen can be a good coach, but the proof is yet to be seen.
What coach wants to come into a situation like last year? Shit players with poor attitudes, Org in turmoil and an unproven HC hired. That doesn't sound like job security to me. Knapp could have been all that was available to Allen.
They did the right thing and are trying to upgrade, now let's see if Reggie will continue the right thing by shoring up the roster.....NYR calls them excuses, they are facts that they had little time to get Alameda in order with cap issuses, little time to put together a staff and a pathetic roster. Whiffs were made and it was bound to happen. I wonder if NYR would use these 'excuses' if he was the one that had to turn the mess around?
JONES
The key, as always, is building the most talented roster and coaching staff where all the pieces fit together.
In year 1, DA/McK inherited a mess. In year 1, DA had a significant learning curve taking on his 1st Head Coaching role.
Mistakes were made to include bringing on a OC married to ZBS.
The question going forward is whether the experience DA gained in year 1 leads to tangible improvements in year 2 and beyond.
"What coach wants to come into a situation like last year?"
A: Dennis Allen and his entire coaching staff.
Are you saying ALL the Raiders coaches are substandard, because that's what it sounds like.
"Whiffs were made and it was bound to happen."
Of course. It happens all the time in the NFL. My concern is that Allen picked a guy that was steeped in a scheme which was polar opposite of the Raiders strengths.
The Raiders have a history with ZBS (including with Knapp as OC), so it wasn't entirely unknown they sucked at it.
For all of us, we could only hope Knapp would be better than the first time he was here. For an industry insider (GM, HC, etc), it should have been more obvious... maybe even totally obvious, IMHO!
Keep incessantly beating the "Knapp was a mistake" into the ground all you want, NYR.
It was a mistake but it is the rear view mirror as far as I'm concerned.
Greg Olsen is the new OC. His philosophy is to adapt the scheme, system, playcalling to fit the strengths of the personnel on-hand.
"Are you saying ALL the Raiders coaches are substandard, because that's what it sounds like"
No, Allen's 1st year, limited time to develop a staff, the best of the best wouldn't take that job. Now Allen has a year under his belt, a year that was chaotic but revealing in the process. I'm sure he learned a lot this past season as did Reggie.
The coaching the Raiders have RIGHT NOW, yes, I have to say I am pleased with the coaching and it is an upgrade over last years. Special teams were a wreck last year, looks like the new coach can turn that around. Allen learned or maybe was told to stop with the ZBS. They made the adjustment and corrected it....now the roster purging needs to begin and the influx of football talent that will build a chemistry and develop into a team from top to bottom....that is still the Goal and it is still moving in that direction.
JONES
"Keep incessantly beating the "Knapp was a mistake" into the ground all you want, NYR."
Incessantly? I’ve posted 4-5 times in the last month +.
Besides, is it really Knapp that we're talking about?
We all pretty much agreed (at least me, you and Jones) that the HC should have the authority to hire his own coaches. Part of that is being able to evaluate prospective coaches as well as your own team.
I understand it all happened very fast and maybe the coaching talent was thin, but bringing in ZBS was as bad as it gets. It's not so much hindsight when we've failed at it in the recent past... and it's clearly a system that your best offensive player is not comfortable. This much was known.
Happy about the coaching upgrades. Also hoping that a trade sceniario develops for that #3 to get more picks.
What I really hope is that- despite Palmers big number salary, it will still be big with a re-do- the Raiders will just go with Pryor.
Re-watching the game, Pryor converts 3rd down after 3rd down, plays his ass off and if they don't give up the opening kickoff td, Raiders win. I think that with a real running game the O will work. Being real we are not going 10-6 so why not.
Also, would it not help to sell tickets?
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memdf - It's a bit confusing that Palmer had career best stats but the Raiders as a team were terrible. Not sure how to read that. Yet, I agree that Pryor was the man in the final game, and showed a determination (and leadership) that could end up being something special.
Question is, is he ready?
I could get behind coaches deciding to try Pryor as starting QB; and if it failed, I'd still be ok with the decision to try.
nyraider said...
"memdf - It's a bit confusing that Palmer had career best stats but the Raiders as a team were terrible. Not sure how to read that."
It's called no running game, coming from behind in every game and abandoning the running game. Isn't it funny that his best stats come with his worst OC and an O-line that almost got him killed every game?
As far as Pryor, NYR says he would be fine with the HC starting him over Palmer. If Pryor was not to do well, how long would it be before NYR would blame the coaches for not being able to "coach him up" and for putting him in too soon? Just like the coaches were to blame for not "coaching up" last years team.
JONES
There you go again, posting with the upmost sincerity. Relax, Jones. Take some meds.
Most of us saw Pryor provide a spark to the very same team with the same OL and a more depleted running game than Palmer had most of the season. Plus, if Palmer doesn't restructure his contract, he might not be an option for starter.
"...how long would it be before NYR would blame the coaches for not being able to "coach him up" and for putting him in too soon?"
Coming from a guy who blindly supported a doomed ZBS to it's bitter end before suggesting maybe we should upgrade the coaches.
Well done!
There are 2 possible scenarios that will play out for our QB situation.
(1) Palmer restructures his contract and remains starter w/Pryor moved up to #2. (This would be the most sound choice in my book).
(2) Palmer is cut for cap reasons and Pryor is the new starter come hell or high water.
Although I liked what I saw of Pryor in the 1 game he started, I think he needs another solid year under his belt. Pryor as the starter in 2014 seems more realistic.
Another strawman, hey NYR...it's your MO
No, I did not blindly support the ZBS, that is another false scenario that you are getting famous for. What I ranted for most of the season was the lack of anything good coming out of the roster, lack of trying, focus, you know, the old culture.
I said that it wasn't the best scenario coaching wise but the players weren't doing a damn thing to make it work. The players quit in the 2nd game of the season with a new coaching staff after they had just quit on the old coaching staff in the last half of the year before.
I was not going to toss the new regime under the bus for a situation that was impossible to bring to fruitation. You clearly backed the players and threw the new regime under the bus, committing the same stupid act that had happened in Oakland for years before it with predictable results.
Any time you can upgrade players or coaches....you do it. Where as you wanted no upgrade from Hue Jackson and you wanted no upgrade in players because you blamed the coaching for not making this roster of losers, winners.....Good Job!!!!
JONES
"You clearly backed the players and threw the new regime under the bus"
I did? Who's the strawman, Jones?
I stated quite clearly and consistently throughout the season that I thought the coaches and the players were both, if not equally responsible for the Raiders failures.
Meanwhile you trashed the players and held the coaches as untouchable in the first year post Al Davis.
Presumably, you saw the writing on the wall; so you tempered your season-long idiocy with this new theme of yours that coaches should be upgraded anytime there's opportunity.
So much for continuity, huh Jones?
In the end, the coaches went out of their way to tell us they plan to keep as many players as possible, then several key coaches were fired.
Once again, job well done, Jones. You have elevated your game to the accuracy of a weatherman. You're mostly cloudly.
NYR, you sure don't like when others generalize and make blanket statements? Well then, why do you continue? Do unto others as you want them to do unto you.....I think it kinda goes like that. If you don't want others making blanket statements about you, then do the same or you will receive the same.
Hey dope, Reggie has to wait to make his moves, the purging has yet to begin, wait and see if Reggie is so keen on keeping "as many players as possible".
JONES
Jones -
So you've developed your incredible perpensity for generalizations (e.g., let's "upgrade" the coaches) to teach me a lesson?
Good thing you're right here to slap me on the wrist.
I've developed the ability for generalizations by reading your crap. It seems you like to stand on the fence and which way the wind blows, that's where you go. Then you try to proclaim yourself as 'knowledgeable' what a laugh.
I figured that since you only work in generalizations, I would do it back to you and look how you react.....just like the "crew", one rule for you and different rules for everyone else...good job, Putz.
JONES
Calico
Respect your views as you are a charter member here, however, you say that Pryor needs another year. Another year of holding a clipboard? Our discussion appears moot as I think Palmer is restructuring and will start - Raiders are maybe going 6-10 next year. No one can talk me off that ledge- so why play Palmer? Money? still 6-10. The only way we find out if Pryor is the answer is to let him play.
I am perplexed at not being progressive. Last year
Lienart came in why? Win one more game. Perfect opportunity for Pryor. Late season rotation of younger players but the Raiders were out of contention in many weeks prior. Why not let these kids play earlier.
Just preaching to the choir. Like the fact they are looking at front office people. Think Holmgren would work if he brought a young Brett Favre!
Long way to go....
Lol Jones. Your season-long arrogance backed you into a corner of generalization and this is your explanation?
"I figured that since you only work in generalizations, I would do it back to you...."
How's the weather today?
Season long arrogance? There is another scenario that you pass off as fact. You are a "crew" member, through and through...way to come out of the closet.
JONES
...I guess rude and obnoxious also come to mind.
You spent the first 15 games of the season calling out ONLY the players, and rudely and obnoxiously debunked any notion that the coaches might have taken some part in the 2012 face plant.
At least for me, it became satisfyingly comical when you tempered your trash-the-players theme with the coaches could be “upgraded.”
That’s what has me laughing at your every post.
I'm quite sure some of the folks that read and post here know exactly what I'm talking about.
It's unfortunate, but you preach about posting with sincerity, yet all you do is belittle folks here for having an opinion and being brave enough to share it with you. That’s been your MO since you started posting here. if that's not arrogance, I'm not sure what is.
Hey, whatever works for you.
Everyone on this site makes "generalizations" and also voices opinions that end up being inaccurate. Bet most of us wished we had a crystal ball and our hopes become reality.
Nyr = victim....just cry, baby.
JONES
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Hey, Does anybody remember the good ol' days when disputes were solved by break dancing?....Since no one has brought it up I think talking to Holmgren is a great Idea even if he turns it down it shows some sort of dilligence from management in looking for way to better themselves. Also the more I think about it I definatly think we go lineman The best of wichever side isn't picked. Just my two cents that I would try and bring a little conversation back to the blog.
Topher
Break Dancing? Hands down, I win and win big. I have got moves that have never been seen before.....I don't think there is anyone in this world that can duplicate them....actually, I saw a guy having a seizure and he was pretty close to my moves, but that's as close as I have seen.
This is off topic, to those who have medical problems....This isn't a spam message like someone is putting on here, this is the real deal.
I have found a medicine that will blow your socks off, it has little or no side effects and works on many different diseases. I have been doing it on 4 months now, they did an ecocardiogram on my heart and said there is some regeneration, asthma gone, pain gone, nausea gone, leukemia is regressing.
Only problem is, it's called Cannabis oil. Expensive if you have to pay for it.....research ENDO CANNABINOID SYSTEM.....CANNABINOID RECEPTORS....when you eat Cannabis oil, you are filling your body full of cannabinoids. They (cannabinoids) search out for these receptors that control our immune and central nervous system and regenerate them. Eating crap food, breathing crap air, drinking crap water breaks down this system and it's why we get sick. The oil 'fixes' the system.....just to let you know...you can thank me later.
JONES
I just hope Reggie can aquire as many draft picks as possible and hits on at least 90% of them...asking too much?
Many areas need playmakers/leaders...the roster is very short on playmakers/leaders, a lot of playkillers, which needs to be changed before steady progress can be made.
JONES
Was just going through 'Cork's' tweets. 1 said that the Raiders had approx 30 mill in 'dead' money counting on last years cap. Throw in the "out of whack" contracts and WHAT A FREAKIN MESS.... Reggie must be a good 'book keeper', just fielding a roster must have been a bitch.
More evidence that it was the last regime that drove it into the ground.
Last year was the first year of just getting some air into the tires...this year, let's hope they get some gas into the damn thing.
We as fans have been abused with a horrible product for long enough....still looks like we will need patience.
The new coaching hires are showing that decent coaches will now work in Oakland, Holmgren???, depends on what position they give him. It shows that there is stability, coaches usually shy away from jobs that just don't look stable (last year). So it is a very good sign that some quality coaches wanted to come to Oakland.....bring on the PLAYMAKERS.
JONES
This one is for Anonymous Gary and Nyr..........
"I think it fits his skill set," Raiders general manager Reggie McKenzie told ESPN at the NFL combine Friday. "I think we're going to see how he does there."
Jones was injury-prone and had ball-handling issues as a running back, but the speedster played well on special teams coverage last season. He was a cornerback at Antioch's Deer Valley High and last played the position his freshman year at Eastern Washington.
McKenzie hopes Jones can eventually be a nickel cornerback for the Raiders. McKenzie, then with Green Bay, said he had Jones projected as a cornerback when Oakland took him in the fourth round in 2011.
Jones, who ran a 4.33-second 40-yard dash at the 2011 combine, has 94 career yards on 22 carries. Former offensive coordinator Greg Knapp said Jones had trouble holding onto the ball at practice......
PRACTISE...if a player can't do it in PRACTISE, he doesn't get to play...understand?
JONES
Cannabis oil, Jones? That explains a lot regarding your posts.
Just kidding. I know you've had issues with your ticker and I'm (sincerely) glad things are turning a better direction for you.
I like the idea of trying T Jones at CB. He's become a bit of a standout on ST, so getting him involved somehow with the offense or defense makes sense.
And I understand practice is a means by which players demonstrate their abilities before hitting the field, but it's not the only way. Plenty of players learn trial by fire style. Jones has the raw skills to be thrown into the fire.
IMO, taking little risks like playing players you think might not be quite ready doesn't seem to be much of a reach for a team that just went 4-12.
At this risk of sounding redundant, we just spent an entire year learning an offense only to abandon it.
Not everything has to make perfect sense, or follow a pattern of accepted protocol.
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Nyr....thanks, I really appreciate your words....I know we have had our disagreements, you just made it all good with just those few words, good job.
The oil isn't for getting 'high'...a person eats it but not enough to stone you. I have helped my Uncle who has Cancer...he has been doing it for over 2 months and you wouldn't believe it. He looked like a mutant, chemo/radiation...now he is looking like a human again and smiling all the time because he feels good. His Dr's are amazed at his turn around.
Another friend who was getting infections and has major back pain...he has been on it for over a month and he is a different guy. Color back in his face, energy he never had for years, doesn't need to take so many pain pills...it's really amazing.
Thanks again Nyr, it's a new year...maybe we can just bury this past year and just "let it go"?
JONES
Oh, just to let you know....got a #32 TATUM throwback jersey today and it isn't even my birthday. Home Black, sown on numbers and THE name on the back....it fits.
JONES
"Not everything has to make perfect sense, or follow a pattern of accepted protocol."
And you are telling this to Raider fans? When has it ever not been this way, in Raiderland? ..I say, bring on the sense and protocol, it's been lacking for far too long.
JONES
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This is a reasonable Q&A about Jones from Cork's live chat:
Why wasn't the T. Jones move done last year we more than needed the help
by Raider McD February 27 at 3:06 PM
Cork: Great question. Bigger question: How can the Raiders decide Jones isn't an NFL-caliber running back without giving him a legitimate shot?
Regarding T. Jones -- what would make the most logical, football sense is to teach him ball security and give him a shot at RB. Switching to CB since like a big time project and long shot at best.
If you look at the time when they did put him in last year, he was lost and he got hurt/fumbled/screwed up. The kid isn't an NFL RB, he switched to RB his 2nd yr at E.W....very hard to make that transition into the NFL when you have played just a couple of yrs at a small U at the RB position. He was a DB all his football life up until his 2nd yr at E.W. IMO, he is more a project at RB, as usual, Mr.Davis drafted for 'potential' and speed.
JONES
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Just watched vids with Dennis Allen at the Combine. He came out and admitted they made mistakes. He also said that they really didn't have a clue what they had in the players even after watching film of the season with Hue....basically, it sounded like a clusterf... and they were just trying to get through it as they went. Allen also said his new OC will design the scheme around the talent (McFadden).
Reggie was being interviewed as well, he talks slow and quiet, speaks about how he is all fired up, then says "don't let my demeanor fool you" and smiles. He also said that no matter who the Raiders pick, "he will be a good football player".
JONES
Briesel restructured, his cap hit will be 1.4 approx....straight up took a big paycut, he now becomes just a contender for a starting role. Which is good because he was BAD last year.
JONES
IMO, it was smart of Reggie to not tag any player. In the past, the Raiders would have way overpaid to retain marginal talent.
Glad to see those days are over.
Media says Briesel played while injured most of last year, but he was bad... the whole Oline was bad.
The 2013 roster should start to take shape very soon. FA starts in a matter of days and the draft is next month.
I think Bresiel will do better in the power block. Even though he came in the NFL under Kubiak, who uses ZBS mostly; he didn't succeed there. Don't get me wrong, he wasn't bad, but he didn't stand out; he got the job done.
I think we may see a different player in the new system.
We will have a new punter, we will have a new RB (T Jones is moving to defense, at CB). Imagine that, a speedster at CB? I think we go DT, OT/G, or LB with the #3 if we don't trade down for a low first rounder, and a 2 round pick.
I think Seymour is gone, and I think Kelly is getting cut (possibly re-signed for lower $$). Or we cut Kelly outright, and go after Jenkins. Lechler is looking at possibly signing with the Texans. Brandon Myers said yesterday he is probably done in Oakland. We will more than likely re-sign Wheeler.
Dennis Allen also said that the Raiders will be bringing in another QB to compete with Palmer and Pryor. Hmmmm. One thing is for sure, cuts are going to be made so we can sign higher quality players (especially on defense), and the Raiders' swagger will make another appearance again.
JUST WIN, BABY!
New take is up!
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