The Awakening
Here's what I wrote on November 11, 2012: The players apparently didn't get the memo that the scholarship era is over. They see a guy like Stanfort Routt still making out like a bandit after being cut by the Raiders and the Chiefs, and they probably haven't figured it out yet. They are in for a rude awakening. McKenzie isn't going to inflate anyone's stock. The perpetual Christmas is over in Alameda. Don't buy a Raiders jersey right now, because you're going to see a lot of names on the discount rack next summer. There's no other path to take at this point.
Get your DHB and Huff jerseys, folks, coming to sale rack near you! And buyer beware right now when it comes to any other Raiders jersey, too.
The rude awakening has arrived.
How can I wring my hands about losing any player at this point? Name one Raiders player in years who has gone on to do great things elsewhere after leaving the team. I guess Randy Moss did pretty well for a brief spell in New England. Anyone else? Heck, our biggest non-kicker star in ages, Nnamdi Asomugha, just got cut after two mediocre seasons in Philly.
So Reggie is surely thinking: I can easily go 4-12 without overpaying for it.
So that's where we stand. We're like those folks who return to their home after a hurricane, and the walls are gone, and the family photos are scattered to the winds. But the house will be rebuilt, hopefully sooner rather than later, and hopefully in a competent manner as well. The future is uncertain. The present, however, is quite clear.
Get your DHB and Huff jerseys, folks, coming to sale rack near you! And buyer beware right now when it comes to any other Raiders jersey, too.
The rude awakening has arrived.
How can I wring my hands about losing any player at this point? Name one Raiders player in years who has gone on to do great things elsewhere after leaving the team. I guess Randy Moss did pretty well for a brief spell in New England. Anyone else? Heck, our biggest non-kicker star in ages, Nnamdi Asomugha, just got cut after two mediocre seasons in Philly.
So Reggie is surely thinking: I can easily go 4-12 without overpaying for it.
So that's where we stand. We're like those folks who return to their home after a hurricane, and the walls are gone, and the family photos are scattered to the winds. But the house will be rebuilt, hopefully sooner rather than later, and hopefully in a competent manner as well. The future is uncertain. The present, however, is quite clear.
posted by Raider Take at 8:22 PM
113 Comments:
Well we hope the "house will be built" faster than they were after 'Katrina'.
It was obvious that the core players were not meshing with the new regime, Reggie always said he wanted his guys...seems like everyone got what they wanted...the "players have to go side" got that, the "coaches suck" crowd got new blood. It's a cold shower, but it had to be done.
JONES
Take, Here are the Raiders jersey's I currently own.
Otto, Stabler, Plunkett, Allen, Tatum, Blanda, Biletnikoff, Upshaw.
Ok, get the picture. Not too much to get excited about lately.
Raiders can't keep going in circles.
Round and round, paying big $$ for little production.
I'd love to buy a Raiders jersey of a current player.
But only winning players can make me do that.
I'm waiting.
I like the post hurricane analogy.
It's a tough pill to swallow after so many years of losing, yet it appears to be based on sound fundamentals; build from the draft, beginning with the trenches.
Hopefully, we’ve seen the end of using high picks on project players. Let’s draft linemen instead of DBs, and football acumen over raw athleticism.
So as we delve into the middle- to lower tiers of free agency and gear up to draft in the trenches, it’s pretty obvious Reggie’s Raiders are the exact opposite of Al Davis’ Raiders.
Say hello to your expansion Raiders. Going back to the hurrican analogy, we can probably go ahead and expect another top 5 draft pick in 2014.
Unless the Raiders fool me this season much like the Oakland A's did last year I dont see us keeping Palmer. Imho I think we keep our first pick, try and resign Palmer and use his more friendly cap number as trade incentive, trade Kelly and mclain for late round picks and build this thing from the trenches up. Also we dont take a cap hit from a player unless its for guaranteed money owed that year if we trade him, from what I under stand.
Topher
Raiders sign Roach and Newman.
as of this am, i know they signed roach but newman? that's good. so we WILL be able to field a team?
as for jerseys, that's why i NEVER buy jerseys of current players. with the rate of them getting cut or traded, it's just not worth it. i get customized jerseys with MY name and MY #. if a player has the # i like, oh well. it's got my name on it so i'm gonna last longer than that player. OR get a jersey of a hall of famer. can't go wrong in either case.
ny - top 5? how about the FIRST pick because that's what our year is gonna be... let's face it folks, this is gonna be a painful year. i only hope mark davis is extremely patient with what reggie is doing. also the fans for that matter. gotta let the guy do the job he was hired for - take out al's garbage and bring in players who WANT to be here. who are NOT just here to collect a paycheck...
all i can say is I'M IN!
Provocateur? Haha... you guys are brainwashed by the ghost of Al. Phhht! Face it. 2016 at best... Ciao, Ladies!
Raiders quietly take care of some business at MLB. Roach is a player.
Raiders were also at WV, and though most of the media pundits are posting that we were there to fuel speculation that we are going to draft Smith, or gain leverage; I think we were there looking at Tavon Austin (WR). Awesome WR, and I would be excited if we drafted him.
We could trade down and pick him up, but we could not drop down too much. Again, I hope we trade down for a lower 1st rounder and a 2nd rounder. :D
JUST WIN, BABY!!!
Great Take-
Thought maybe franchising Wheeler would not have been the worse thing. Oh well, we are in it up to our eye patch now!
Some housecleaning, especially of the overpaid contracts if the players weren't willing to renegotiate, was in order but I must say I'm disappointed that more effort didn't seem to be made to re-sign some of the young, promising talent. I guess the excuse for Desmond Bryant was that Raiders were priced out of the market, but what about Shaughnessy? Lost him today for a 1 year/1 million dollar deal. Both of those guys have bright futures.
Franchising Wheeler? OUCH, 2 LB's as good as or better than Wheeler for less money, no need to worry about losing Wheeler.
Shaugnessy is over-rated by Raider fans, he will be out of the league after this year or next.
Desmond Bryant is not worth that money and will be replaced with someone cheaper and with less of a police record.
They are gone because the Raiders want a clean break from the past, as far as players go. This will probably be McFadden's last year as a Raider, if he isn't traded this year. I will watch these former Raiders closely this season...... Routt, Wimbley,Nnamdi,McClain,Kelly,Huff, Seymour,...how's that looking? One shitty lineup.
JONES
According to the media, the Raiders tried to retain both Bryant and Wheeler, but were priced out by other teams. So their departures appear to have had nothing to do with "breaking from the past."
Nevertheless, I'm glad the Raiders didn't break the bank to keep these guys. Bryant is a career back-up and Wheeler kind of dropped off late last year.
I have a feeling we may have already upgraded at LB, assuming (hoping) McClain will be gone.
D-line should be our primary focus early in the draft.
Wheeler isn't considered the past, Bryant is and if you can't see that they are sweeping the past out the door, then you need to take off the blinders.
JONES
Easy fella. I only responded to what you said; "They are gone...."
Besides, my point was that the Raiders tried to retain Bryant but he just became too expensive.
I think some of the former Raiders can do well on better teams, and around better coaching and better team leadership.
The Raiders problems don't exist in a vacuum of its players. Even if we can agree that it's now being corrected, the problem has been top to bottom.
Here we go again, NYR playing the troll. Couldn't wait to get that response, hey "fella"?
Where is your proof that the Raiders tried to keep Bryant? Seems like he couldn't wait to get on the market and the Raiders weren't going to touch him for anything close to what he got.
We will see how the old Raiders do on other teams....you said Routt would do well, you said Nnamdi would do well...they will continue the trend, just watch and see....Yes I have knowledge of the "vacuum", the players were a reflection of the Regime, they were a fit. This is why they are all being given the boot, the new regime doesn't want these types = culture.
In all the time I have spent here, I never thought of you as a troll, but damn, you keep showing me that you are nothing but.
JONES
goodbye myers!
giants sign him... i think this is good. it'll give guys like ausberry a chance to compete and start...
all, here is a reminder of george carlin's quote about the raiders:
'In football, I root for the Oakland Raiders because they hire castoffs, outlaws, malcontents, and f*ck -ups, they have lots of penalties, fights, and paybacks, and because Al Davis told the rest of the pig NFL owners to go get f*cked... Someday, the Raiders will be strong again, and they will dip the ball in **** and shove it down the throats of the wholesome, white, heartland teams that pray together and don't deliver late hits’ – George Carlin
we WILL BE BACK!
"breaking from the past."
One could easily argue that letting players go who don't warrant big, funny money contracts, is breaking from the past.
Does anyone on this board honestly think McKenzie would/should break the bank for marginal talent?
"....you said Routt would do well, you said Nnamdi would do well"
Really, Jones? Where did I say that?
You need another sincerity check.
I said some players might do well with better teams, under better coaching and with better team leadership. The Raiders offered none of that last year.
"Where is your proof that the Raiders tried to keep Bryant?"
Once again, putting words in the mouth. I never stated it as fact. I said, the media reported. Here it is:
From Jerry McDonald (Friday, March 15th, 2013 at 1:24 pm):
"None of the 17 Raiders who entered unrestricted free agency have come back to the team. The Raiders made efforts in that direction with Philip Wheeler and Desmond Bryant, but were priced out of the market."
Jones, why do you have to be such a douchebag about everything? Who’s really the troll here? You hinge on every word I post, and regularly add a few I don’t post.
Bummer we lost Wheeler n Bryant, that was a money thing, but I have no problem with letting Myers go, he still can't block and his numbers really just show how bad our WR's were... I wish some team would take Palmer and solve that problem... Reggie's going for a fistful of compensatory picks, he was a great talent assessor at GB, and I still think he's following a plan. It really doesn't matter how many games we win, if any, this season because next year we will be millions under the cap with no ridiculous out of whack contracts... entering FA and the draft like a real NFL franchise, and not under the table looking for scraps...
Go Reggie... burn it down, we've been stinking the place up for the last ten years.
Nice Carlin quote from Scorpio, and I agree...
WE WILL BE BACK
NYR, are you playing the victim again?
"So their departures appear to have had nothing to do with "breaking from the past."
Directed at me....totally innaccurate, just a troll's way of getting a response.
"Besides, my point was that the Raiders tried to retain Bryant but he just became too expensive.
Directed at me
....""Where is your proof that the Raiders tried to keep Bryant?"...
Once again, putting words in the mouth. I never stated it as fact. "
Directed at me. If you aren't stating it as fact, why are you stating it? Recoiling because you have no proof.
"
Jones, why do you have to be such a douchebag about everything?... You hinge on every word I post, and regularly add a few I don’t post."....NYR, it is you who want the responses and you will state rumors to accomplish it. Got a deal for you, don't post about my posts and I won't about yours, deal? Drama queens are a real drag, NYR.
JONES
The Sad Truths of Internet Trolls:
1.Trolls are immune to criticism and logical arguments. True trolls cannot be reasoned with, regardless of how sound your logical argument is.
2.Trolls do not feel remorse like you and me. They have sociopathic tendencies, and accordingly, they delight in other people having hurt feelings.
3.Trolls gain energy by you insulting them.
4.Trolls gain energy when you get angry.
5.The only way to deal with a troll is to ignore him,
Jones - You spend way too much of your energy trying to keep me down. Why is that?
Only a troll would post a made up definition for trolls. Keep in mind, I’m not the one who chased PantyRaider around the Internet.
Listen, I'm happy to discuss Raiders football with you or anyone else, but don't expect me to just accept your belligerence. Sorry, it's just my nature.
So I guess if your intent is genuine to not post in response to anything I post, you probably wouldn't have posted all that B.S. above. Right?
Cheers!
The games people play...not interested, NYR.
JONES
Funny, Jones always accused me of being a troll but never ignored me! Jones, you are a gass!
Oh hey Jones, glad u found more peeps to dick with. I have some pom-poms for ya! Harrrrrrghhh!
Jeezuz
Stop this childish nonsense. The Raiders signed Kevin Burnett. 3-4 on the way? Keep Tommy Kelly as NT? Any of the top draft picks early 3-4 players? - Don't know.
Anyone know the compensatory picks for losing the Fa's? Could have a bundle next year maybe?
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memdf.....No need for Kelly, Kelly and McClain are as good as gone. Sims and C. Bilukidi who is more suited to playing NT....need one more body there.
JONES
That's better Jones, yer growing up, son
Burnett, Burris, Maiva, Roach -- looking like 3-4. If Kelly and Palmer don't restructure their contracts, they are as good as gone.
Raiders fans will be interested to know they've expressed interest in TE Kellen Winslow, who is finally healthy.He wants to keep going. HMMMMM. Raiders signed free agent DT Vance Walker
6-foot-2, 305-pound Walker, entering fifth season, has played in 58 games with 11 starts. 5 sacks. Falcons' 7th-round draft choice in 2009.
just some news to keep us all informed.
Topher
Interesting article I found on Mr. Walker.
Dale Zanine-USA TODAY Sports
The powers-that-be of the Atlanta Falcons have played the free agency game a little differently than other NFL teams. They tend to choose demonstrated consistency from within rather than scrambling to sign on an outside name alone.
That being said, it’s time to talk about defensive tackle Vance Walker.
For most of his tenure with the Falcons, Walker has tended to fly more under the radar than jump in the spotlight. Coming in as a seventh round draft pick was surely a quietly humble beginning to becoming a Falcon. When the opportunities presented themselves, however, he stepped into the spotlight…with shining results.
It is a bit puzzling that there hasn’t been more interest in Walker; the current lack of awareness could lead to the Falcons’ underestimation of his true value to the team. He’s built a sturdy record and reputation that is worth more than just casual consideration.
The bump in the road for Walker (and the Falcons) may be the always-iffy boundary of the salary cap. What will the Falcons offer, what would he want to stay? Of course, the Falcons are weighing other options, and that’s to be expected. They must keep in mind that players who fit comfortably into the ubiquitous (and limited) salary cap with room to spare don’t necessarily make the best bedfellows…team, cap or otherwise. There is much to be said for stability and for promoting from within. It builds loyalty, respect and reliability on both sides.
Take care of your own, Falcons…just like they’ve taken care of you. It’s time to re-sign the proven commodity you have in Vance Walker.
Topher
Looks like two 6th round comp picks for bush and satele leaving last year.
Another 'under the radar' with Walker...it's fun to watch as Reggie builds a team.
JONES
Walker, Maiva, Burnett could be low-profile, productive signings for the D. Looks like the entire D is being overhauled, revamped, and turned completely over minus a few players (Burris, Houston, Branch).
It will take another free agency and draft but Reggie is clearly working his plan to rebuild.
........intoxicated and incoherent, Bryant was arrested for criminal mischief for allegedly trying to break down the door to Bakar’s house, police records show.
While Bryant’s arrest was embarrassing — his slack-jawed mug shot from the Feb. 24 incident has already attained Internet infamy — it didn’t prevent Bryant from receiving a five-year, $34 million contract with the Cleveland Browns last week.
Now Bryant is facing a lawsuit from Bakar and his family, who say they were “terrified” by Bryant when he tried to bull his way into their house — even pulling off one of the door handles as Bakar tried to hold the door closed. Their lawyer said they are receiving psychological counseling.
“They were scared,” said the family’s attorney, Robert Fiore, who filed the lawsuit Monday in Miami-Dade circuit court. “My client was holding on for dear life.”
Bakar, his wife and his three children were awakened around 5:30 a.m. on Feb. 24 by the sounds of banging on their front door. When Bakar looked through a window pane in the door, he saw the hulking, shirtless Bryant come charging at the door again, the lawsuit says.
Fearing a home-invasion robbery from the muscled intruder, Bakar — a 43-year-old, 5-foot-11, 170-pound paving contractor — tried to hold the door shut against Bryant while his wife called police. Bryant was still yelling and banging on the door when officers arrived, the police report says.....
IMO, "under the radar" is a polite way of saying nothing special. It's liking describing a blind date as being "nice."
And I wouldn't assume 3-4 defense. Looks more like McKenzie is adding bodies in hopes that some stick.
We'll see how good the Raiders scouting has been once we see these guys in action.
For me, the positive aspect is just adding qualified bodies to the mix. It's a system that works for other teams, and I'm liking the process.
NYR,
Tough to say whether we are going to be 3-4 or 4-3. One could argue that since we are rebuilding close to the entire D, now is the time to make the change. Further, I'm sure Reggie was influenced the 3-4 D's he witnessed in GBay.
The keys in my book to a successful 3-4 is an immovable NT and 2 strong edge rushed OLBs. Do we have any of the parts so far? Not really but I'm going to enjoy the process.
Really? We re-signed Khalif Barnes?
How's that 2009 draft class working out? Yikes! As reported on the Oakland Tribune Blog, the entire class is gone.
1: WR Darrius Heyward-Bey, Maryland
2: SS Mike Mitchell, Ohio
3. DE Matt Shaughnessy, Wisconsin
4a: WR Louis Murphy, Florida
4b:LB Slade Norris, Oregon State
6a: DE Stryker Sulak, Missouri
6b: TE Brandon Myers, Iowa
I imagine other draft classes aren't looking much different.
IMO, it's a combination of Raiders scouting, modern free agency and luck of the draw (in terms of good college players making it in the NFL).
DHB and Mitchell were huge reaches by the Raiders in terms of their selections in the draft. Didn't DHB catch like 19 passes at Maryland before he was drafted with the 8th overall pick by the Raiders?
I remember the Raiders drafted these guys #1 and #2 while foregoing greater needs and opportunity to draft OL and DL.
I'm guessing that won't happen this year.
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If you look at the past 10 years of draft classes before the new regime, it is rather dismal.
The # of outright whiffs on 1st round picks is alarming.
I am hopeful that McKenzie can improve the value of the draft in building a team that can eventually sustain success for the long-term.
CJ
Alarming does well, stupifying might work better. AD seemed more concerned with immediate gratification or that he was smarter than everyone else and saw something they could not see in a player. In his defense Gallery and Jamarcus were consensus stars by most "experts."
I am willing to stay the course. If Reggie is plotting the same course as GB then why not? I just hope Mark Davis feels the same.
I also hope that the 3-4. Practices are set up to the opponent but if the Raider base D is 3-4 naturally, it may help the O deal with 3-4s better. I know the D has struggled greatly forever but it seems more so against a 3-4.
Jeez
On my daughters IPad, drinking beer and watching NCAA tourney-sorry.
Meant to say- I would like the Raiders to go 3-4 because we know what Raider 3-4 Ds have accomplished in the past!
...anyone want to buy the last of my Raider junk? I am so excited that they are a thing of the past and just my top AFC West team. Like a breath of fresh air, the only jerseys I'll wear are mine and Gannon's. Glad it got blown up. They will suck, absolutely, until at least 2015. Enjoy the seasons. There will be blood. The Realist has spoken. Go Seahawks.
Word is Bucs will trade #1,and 2 picks to Jets for Darrel Revis.
If so, Raiders should offer Palmer, and #4 pick to Jets, for Sanchez, and #2 pick.
Jets need a QB, so maybe they bite. And they will have extra picks.
Raiders then can restructure Sanchez contract, and let Pryor, and Sanchaz battle it out for starting QB.
I think Sanchez would do a lot better playing on the west coast.
"If Reggie is plotting the same course as GB then why not?"
The success of GB hinged on the play of Aaron Rodgers. If we find another Aaron Rodgers, maybe we can enjoy similar success.
Raider00 - "I think Sanchez would do a lot better playing on the west coast."
Mark Sanchez is a colossal disappointment in NY. Why would that be any different in Oakland?
I like the idea of trading Palmer for draft picks, but maybe we should aim a little higher.
Hey Take, any chance of you taking down this 'anonymous' spam that someone keeps posting?
I know, bazjoz, this spam is becoming a nuisance. I try to stay on top of it!
How about Lechler going to the Texans?
End of an era with Lechler gone. Wish him well. I thought I read Pryor is holding on kicks.
I think we're covered in terms of a punter. What we may miss is Lechler's sure hands on punts and kicks (as a holder). We all saw what happened when we lost our long snapper. Ugh!
When you are consistently one of the worse teams in the NFL, having "the best punter" is not really necessary. Let him go somewhere where his talents will be of use.
However, if by chance the Raiders are competitive next year, Lechler will be missed.
Dennis Allen quote....
'We also felt we made some really good additions to our team, from a personnel standpoint. Those guys we added we feel can help us, not just from a football standpoint but from a culture, and a locker-room standpoint. They’re really the right type of guys that we’re looking for.'
There is that word again....can you say culture? How many Mr.Davis players are left? Out with the old way, in with the new, thank goodness.
JONES
Lechler is a freakin PUNTER, really, no big deal other than it saves cap space. Another of the old culture gone...get em out. McClain is gone and so is Kelly, that will leave McFadden (gone after this year), Jano, Veldheer, Barnes and Wiz. Branch,Houston, that is some roster turnover and couldn't happen fast enough.
JONES
It was inevitable that Lechler would leave this offseason. A team like the Raiders with personnel and cap issues can't afford the luxury of having a high priced punter.
At this juncture it is time to go all the way in rebuilding, acquiring draft picks, lowering the payroll -- time to cut Palmer and give Pryor a ride in 2013.
Letting Lechler walk was hardly a surprise... by far the most speculated decision this year.
As for pinning failures of a "culture" on Lechler, that's a reach. Lechler was regularly vocal and critical of the way in which the Raiders used to operate. IMO, his leaving is strictly $$$.
Lechler himself said the Raiders showed no interest in him = didn't want him = part of the past = bad culture = bingo.
JONES
Well, I hated to do it, but I've added word verification for commenting, it's an extra step for you guys, but hopefully it will keep these spamming assclowns out.
Glad Elvis has left the building and he is with Baltimore. Von Miller wasn't as effective with him out of the line up.
Topher
I want to say "Thanks" to Lechler for his play with the Raiders through his career. Probably the best punter we will see in our era.
NY, I don't think anyone is pinning failures of a "culture" on Lechler alone. I do think, however, the last 2 or 3 years, he hasn't been much of a help to change the culture. I think Seymore, DHB, McClain, Huff, Routt, and the majority of the guys we've rid ourselves of have been collectively a negative culture in the locker room. Where's my proof? Don't have any solid proof other than the fact that they are no longer in our locker room. I'm expecting Kelly to get his papers soon.
With that said, the majority of "Mock Drafts" I see out there have the Raiders picking Shariff Floyd (DT, Florida). I don't see that happening. I think they trade down, for a later 1st round pick, and a 2nd rounder; and with the first pick, they take Tavon Austin (WR, West Virginia). Then we pick up a DT or DE in the 2nd. Just my opinion.
RN 75 - "NY, I don't think anyone is pinning failures of a "culture" on Lechler alone."
Jones said "Lechler himself said the Raiders showed no interest in him = didn't want him = part of the past = bad culture"
Apparently, a simple case of sour grapes for Jones.
It was the right move allowing Lechler to go; a decision based on cost and made prior to last season (when the Raiders placed M King on IR).
Lechler is the best punter in NFL history. He often spoke his mind, even against AL at times.
Nate, I'm not sure how you could possible measure Lechler's influence in the locker room.
NYR,
Lechler was/is a true professional. As a punter, his impact to positively influence the locker room and be a leader was limited.
The other point about the ROI on a guy like Lechler; he was over-paid and quite frankly, had a poor year in 2012. Lechler ranked #20 in Net Punting Yds. or the bottom half of NFL punters.
Lechler is not the best punter in NFL history, so wrong on that one.
Lechler did say Mr.Davis encouraged him to speak his mind, he also said the Mr.Davis would always do what HE wanted no matter what he said.
The point being NYR, and what a surprise that you couldn't pick it up...Lechler was another player who was entrenched in the culture of the past....why that is so hard for you to grasp....I know you have never played sports because you just can't understand what is meant by 'culture'. He was way overpaid to play in Oakland and that is how the Raiders kept players around in the 'final days' of the Legendary Owner.
Like Lechler, most didn't want to be in Oakland but Mr. Davis made deals that would be unable to refuse. The 'culture' became entitlement, players ran the show after Mr.Davis was done with it...it was insane.
The players became the culture = poor and the talent was pathetic.
In comes the new regime, recognizes it, makes steps to correct it and NYR says "there was no culture problem and they want to keep as many core players as possible"....sounds like NYR has sour grapes because he cannot and will not admit that the 'culture' was a HUGE problem in Oakland. Even after all this effort, by myself, to write this out, he still won't be able to grasp it.
JONES
Bad culture was a significant problem in Oaktown. Bad culture doesn't mean strictly a player who is a bad play, or a player with a bad attitude. Bad culture includes players who are kept on the roster by being overpaid or kept because they were high draft picks or big ticket FAs. Reggie is trying to weed out the players who have no business being retained at the price tags. Perfect example is DHB. DHB is a high priced 1st round pick who wasn't worth keeping. He might be a hard working, good guy but his contract and value made him EASY to discard.
I appreciate the FACT that Reggie isn't trying to take any short cuts and isn't throwing around funny money to paper over the holes. It might not be easy or fast but if he can build a team through the draft and selectively gaining 2nd tier FAs to build the roster from the ground up, the Raiders will eventuall be in a better place.
This comment has been removed by the author.
"Lechler was/is a true professional. As a punter, his impact to positively influence the locker room and be a leader was limited."
Agreed. Dude is a punter. He's not a guy in the trenches like Ray Lewis who other players look up to. Punters and kickers on most teams exist in solitude; so why hold Lechler to a completely different standard.
I am truly amazed by how some folks believe they know what happens inside the Raiders locker room... and use this information to make a point.
Jones - The culture you pretend to have a monopoly on understanding doesn’t exist in a vacuum with the Raiders. The NFL is a business, and many players treat it like that regardless of team.
You’ve taken the word “culture” to another level and made it your pet peeve excuse for everything the Raiders do.
While I see the Raiders making sound and probably necessary financial business decisions, you see them as curing cancer.
I don't think Lechler is as good as Ray Guy was. Ray Guy is the best ever, and should be in the HOF.
What I like about Reggie's approach, is it is old school Raiders. He is getting 2nd tier players that nobody is considering to build a team that will be successful. The last time this was done was with Ron Wolf. The way it becomes better is by how we draft.
We have a lot of holes to fill, and they are being filled. The flagship was not built overnight; and it's repairs will not happen overnight either, but the cranes are out, and a new mast and bow are being set in place; as the swagger is slowly coming back.
JUST WIN, BABY!
strawman anyone?
I've already got the cure for cancer so Reggie doesn't need to worry about that.
As far as 'culture'...it was a HUGE problem in Oakland and has been since all the Vets left the last good Raider team. The culture was, like the McClain incident...here was a Mr.Davis pet who probably didn't want to practise much and didn't really care about the fundementals during practise. In the old regime, he would be allowed to skip a meeting, practise not too hard and be starting on Sunday.
Actually, players were rewarded for this type of behavior. It, among other things, created a CULTURE, I know it is hard for you to understand, because your knowledge is limited.
Your attacks upon myself for having to educate you on these subjects shows your character = poor.
JONES
Raiders announce the signing of OT Alex Barron of the Seahawks. :D
JUST WIN, BABY!
Jones - It’s not the first time you’ve used McClain as a universal example of your extreme fixation with the Raiders’ culture.
McClain is a punk. He's not even worth discussion, and certainly shouldn’t be lumped in with Lechler.
Are you that desperate to create text for your posts?
Shane Lechler was quoted as saying on a San Fran radio show, the following:
“After giving them 13 years and plus what the Davis family has done for me, I thought I would at least have a conversation with someone there or something before all of this went down. That was the frustrating part of it. I can’t say that I turned a contract down or anything because I was never really offered one. That was frustrating but I understand. Reggie's running that thing now like he wants to run it and it’s pretty safe to say I don’t believe I was in the plans.”
After 13 years, he should have been spoken to, but I think he knew before the season was over that he wasn't going to return. I think he and Reggie knew he wanted $$ that Oakland wasn't going to pay. The writing was definitely on the wall; but if he wasn't spoken to by the front office, then I agree with Lechler; that's just cut throat.....
What's the deal on CP3? He is not worth 13 mil I think but if he gets cut the money is gone and so is the 2nd round pick with nothing to show for it. Please don't then draft Geno Smith. I want to see Pryor get a shot but then you have a 13 million dollar back up. The other option would have Palmer pre-ordained as the starter in order to at least justify the money for this year. Next year his salary goes to 17 million.
Hue Jack came up with this and Mark Davis approved it? Would have worked out if they beat SD for the division - guess not.
I need some help with this one.
Nyr is reaching PantyWaste status....Just troll, baby.
JONES
They can't cut him without taking a $9 million hit against the Salary Cap. They are already considering cutting Kelly, even though that will be $11 million against the cap.
They are going to have to trade him, and I'd be speaking with Jacksonville, Tampa, Arizona, Miami, and the Jets. I would consider Buffalo, but they don't want to spend that kind of money, and never have. I'm not sold on going after Flynn via trade either. We have nothing to give, unless we trade the #3 spot for Flynn, Seattle's #1 and #2, and cash from Seattle.
Tommy K is gone, the one play that would describe Tom Kelly is when he came off the bench last year during a scrum on the field and was booted out of the game. Warren Sapp saying Kelly is one of the best DL in the game? Sapp is a sapp. Kelly won't last another year or 2, Huff gets 2 mill a year, wow, now there is a paycut. McClain is up next on the chopping block. See Ya, thanks for the half assed efforts...
JONES
SCAR
Go Reggie go!!
Go DA go!!
Go Raiders go!!
Yes, I know, the rebuilding process probably won't result in immediate wins, but this is what has been needed in Raiderland since BEFORE Lane Kiffin was HIRED.
Class is in session, and will continue to be this whole off season. I think management and the coaching staff get high marks so far.
SCAR
"The Raiders released veteran defensive tackle Tommy Kelly on Wednesday, freeing up approximately $5 million in salary-cap room." (from Oak Tribune blog).
Kelly is a classic example of the poor decisions made in the past whereby he was given a HUGELY OVER-INFLATED long term contract but never lived up close to the expectations -- he kept padding his bank account like an elite player with the production to back it up.
Bring in Flynn at a reasonable, short term contract and let Flynn and Pryor compete for #1.
When Davis re-signed Kelly he made him the highest paid DT in the league. Kelly was a non-drafted FA, and never came close to living up to the expectation of his contract. IMO, the only reason he stuck to the roster last year was because the Raiders thought they could actually win some games. Now that's moot.
IMO, the Raiders have made smart moves this offseason, beginning with firing Knapp. While I like the overall direction of the team, there is every possibility we draft in the top five again next year... while advancing our total of consecutive miserable seasons to 12. That's an incredible streak.
Calico, Seattle is looking to trade Flynn. I ask the question; what do we have to trade with?
The only scenario I see, is acquiring Flynn, Seattle's 2nd and 3rd Round pick for our #3 overall pick (since they traded their 1st and 7th Round pick for Percy Harvin). I don't think that is a very good deal. We have nothing but the 3rd overall pick; and Seattle doesn't have enough to compensate for that.
The only way we will be able to pick up Flynn is if they cut him. I am under the opinion that if we let Carson go (via trade or outright cut), we will sign Vince Young for vet minimum.
Inside Bay Area is reporting that the Raiders are going to keep Palmer, and have not asked him to take a cut.
If the Raiders cut him, it is 9.something million against the cap this year. Yes, it would be about $4 million in savings, but that is not much. I am pleased if we do keep him. He's aging, yes, but he is an above average QB. If we can get him to quit forcing throws, and bring in quality WRs; he'd improve vastly.
JUST WIN, BABY!
Hard to say what will happen with Palmer, much of this could be posturing for the draft, IMO. Trading Palmer could still be in the works, guess we will see on Draft Day. If Reggie could trade him for a 2nd rd pick, IMO, that would be very acceptable. Didn't someone call the Palmer trade "the greatest trade ever made"? Whoever said it, sure glad they aren't the GM of the Raiders.
JONES
Is this CJ a pirate
Oh boy ... time surely flies pretty fast, now that 2013 free agency has already started and this year's draft days are fast approaching.
I think a lot of us were expecting a plenty of personnel releases as soon as this year's free agency got started, and so far, Reggie has been doing exactly that. Indeed, the team is definitely going through the purge mode to pave the way for rebuilding.
Meanwhile, my two concerns:
1. Mark Davis should bite the bullet and let Reggie do his job. The Raiders are not going to become a playoff contender in the near future. Instead, he should take the ongoing demolition as an opportunity to start putting together a solid foundation. He should look back and realize that a decade's worth of poor drafts and free agencies is just not something that can be remedied by a pack of Band-Aids. More immediately, the team faces a cap hell which must be dealt with.
2. I think Reggie should trade down the #3 overall pick and amass lower draft slots, if he can find takers. We have way too many holes to fill. If the managerial prime directive is to avoid committing to overpriced free agent contracts, then draft picks become even more importont.
I agree with most of the posters saying Raiders are having good off season.
I compare Raiders to an expansion team.
Reggie was virtually starting with nothing. Having to build from ground up.
In fact, Reggie didn't even have #1 pick, or a #2 pick two yrs in a row.
This has slowed the building proccess greatly.
No more "cap hell." That has already past for the most part. Raiders have almost $8mm heading into the draft. That's more than a lot of teams.
Next year will obviously be better because the Raiders will shed more contracts... I think they have around $30mm in dead money this year. I'm sure that's a tough pill for Reggie to swallow.
Corkran posted a good read on the Carson Palmer situation. As Jones suggested, it appears to be a media thing. Cutting Palmer and signing another QB will cost the Raiders more, not save money.
Unless the Raiders can figure out a trade, I believe Palmer stays... even if he sits while Pryor gets reps.
I have to say, everytime I hear a rumor that Raiders will use 3rd overall pick on QB Geno Smith, my heart sinks a little.
Didn't anyone watch Geno vs Syracuse in bowl game ?
Not very impressive.
Cap hell has passed for the most part? Ahh, no, it's still strapping the team in a very negative way. When they have over 30 mill still in dead money, no, the cap hell is not over. The past regime had this team so messed up, watching the rebuilding of the team just shows us how badly the team was being run. Anyone who still condones the past or says the effects are over....give your head a shake.
JONES
Agree Jones. We are still being negatively impacted by cap hell in many ways.
$8 million is not a lot of cap space either, considering teams have $28 million in cap space.
The Raiders actually have 7.65 million in cap space, and we were a 2 million until we cut Kelly. But cutting Kelly had it's price too, to the tune of $6.25 million of dead money. If we cut Palmer, we would have another $9 million in dead money against the cap, saving only $4 million. Not too mention cutting McClain. It is more difficult to cut players, than to restructure. Trading Palmer makes the most sense, if we decide we don't need his services.
I think he would do well in Arizona.
Contrary to popular media hype, I don't believe we went to West Virginia and USC prodays to look at Geno Smith and Matt Barkley. I think we were there scouting Tavon Austin and Robert Wood. I like Tavon Austin better. My dream is (since we are rebuilding) is to draft Tavon Austin this year, and with the #1 pick next year, draft Marquis Lee. :)
I'm excited to see what we do with this year's draft, and the rest of the offseason.
JUST WIN, BABY!
Calico - I think I saw in a previous post that you thought getting Flynn was a good move. Not sure those were your exact words but I understood that as your general sentiment. Above you note with Jones that we are still being negatively impacted by cap hell in many ways.
I guess I am trying to reconcile the 2 positions. In the short-term, clearly this compounds the cap hell. In the long-term, this may be liberating salary cap wise but it certainly compounds our problem of not having enough picks in the draft thus we are not really rebuilding through the draft (nor free-agency currently for that matter). So if the long-term is really what is in mind, why would we want Flynn this year? In general, I just do not understand the movement towards Flynn unless:
1. It is a ruse to make Palmer take a pay cut
2. It is part of an effort to trade Palmer and gain picks thus freeing additional cap-space
If in fact we do trade for Flynn, and release Palmer and our net in this whole thing is the loss of our 2013 2nd round pick this year (Palmer trade from Cincinnati) and an additional pick, plus close to net zero on cost between Palmer dead money and Flynn salary, I do not in any way understand how that represents a long or short term perspective. At the least, keeping Palmer this year represents"paying the piper for transgressions of the past."
I simply can't make heads or tails of this with the exclusion of the 2 caveats I note above. Please feel free anyone...why would we really want Flynn.
Blue Monday
Taking a chance on Flynn as the starting QB...Reggie has a good knowledge on this guy, if he goes for him and gets him, I would feel more comfortable with him compared to Pryor. Palmer is a tough asset to move or get rid of for value. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.
JONES
The fact that Flynns contract is for basicly for 6+million a year and Palmers is 13 million this year and 17 million next year shows some sort of fiscal responsiblility.Also the differance between dead money and paid out cash is huge. jmho
Topher
Posted by Mike Wilkening on March 29, 2013, 9:19 PM EDT
AP
If Carson Palmer is indeed on his way out in Oakland, he reportedly has an idea of a couple places he would like to land.
Palmer is said to like Arizona and San Francisco as potential new destinations, Mike Garofolo of USA Today reported Friday.
The situation remains fluid, of course. Palmer isn’t yet on the market. And there’s the issue of whether either team would want to add Palmer to their roster. ESPN’s Adam Schefter reported Friday that he’s hearing the Cards may not be the slam-dunk Palmer suitor many have speculated them to be.
In any event, Palmer’s tenure in Oakland looks about at its end. Garofolo reported that Palmer remains firm on his unwillingness to take a pay cut from the Raiders. And there is much chatter about the Raiders’ interest in Seattle’s Matt Flynn.
From Friday’s Pro Football Talk on NBC Sports Network, here’s a look at how the Raiders could proceed if they can finish a deal for Flynn.
Posted by NBCSports.com on March 29, 2013, 8:14 PM EDT
While the deal is still not official, Mike Florio says the Matt Flynn trade to Oakland will set in place the necessary moves for the team to rid themselves of Carson Palmer.
If it is true about Flynn....Reggie ain't messing around, he wants to turn this thing into a whole new team and do it NOW. I really like what I am seeing from this regime....Reggie was an excellent hire and is really doing well, IMO. He is reversing years of horrible management in a very short period...GO RAIDERS!
JONES
Mike Garafolo, USA TODAY Sports7:41p.m. EDT March 29, 2013
Carson Palmer's days with the Oakland Raiders appear close to ending, and his next likeliest landing spots already are coming into focus.
Though the Raiders are likely to make one final push to get Palmer to renegotiate in lieu of trading for the Seattle Seahawks' Matt Flynn, Palmer will continue to resist any such overtures, according to a person informed of Palmer's thinking.
The person, who spoke to USA TODAY Sports on condition of anonymity because all talks were to remain private, said the Arizona Cardinals and San Francisco 49ers are atop the list of Palmer's preferred new employers.
MOCK DRAFT 3.0:: Who does your team select?
Yahoo! Sports reported this week that Palmer recently turned down a $3 million pay cut from his $13 million base salary. It was an indication Palmer has no desire to return to Oakland, where he's gone 8-16 as a starter.
The person informed of Palmer's thinking said nothing has changed, and Palmer will resist even a minimal pay cut.
The Cardinals would allow Palmer at least a chance to be a starter. Arizona cut Kevin Kolb earlier this month and have Brian Hoyer, Drew Stanton, John Skelton, and Ryan Lindley on the roster.
But Palmer's willingness to possibly make a short trip across the Bay to San Francisco, where he would back up Colin Kaepernick, reveals his desire to be on the roster of a contending team. Palmer has enjoyed just two winning seasons in nine years with the Raiders and Cincinnati Bengals. Both were in Cincinnati
Blue Monday,
I get your points. The one exception to being in cap hell is still tyring to bring in young talent.
I would put Flynn in the category of a young, unproven (yet somewhat seasoned) QB at a reasonable contract.
The other point to factor in is whether or not it is sound to put ALL your eggs in the Pryor basket.
I believe Flynn vs. Pryor would be a legit competition with both QBs having upside and fair market contract values.
Do I want Reggie to give up picks to acquire Flynn? No and I don't think Reggie would mortgage the future to get Flynn.
It is an extremely trick balance that Reggie is facing in terms of getting us out of cap hell whilet still attempting to field a competitive team.
We shall all have to wait and see how it plays out.
Raiders are also talking to Free Agent Concussion Kolb, if a deal does not work out with Flynn (as reported by profootballtalk.com).
Palmer will likely go to Arizona, (for possibly their 2nd round pick), and he will have to renegotiate his contract and take much less than the $10 million we offered him; plus he will have to make Arizona a contender, much like he would with the Raiders.
It is being reported he wants to be a backup with a contender; meaning he doesn't want to put in the work to contend. It's sad, because that was the knock against him in Cincy, and it is now showing to be true.
Just saw Campbell's deal with the Cleveland... I know it would've been a sort of backwards step to sign him, but $1mil n change for a year is bargain basement for a veteran QB that could've place held for the next year till we get out of financial trouble. He wasn't fantastic, but he could scramble when needed (unlike Palmer) and didn't turn the ball over every third throw (unlike Palmer)... and all at 1/10th of the cost of a year with Palmer. Plus he's played and won more games than Flynn has watched from the bench, and at a quarter of Flynn's price tag, we could've released Palmer, paid his dead money, and still come in a coupla mil in the black... go figure.
Forgot to mention that Campbell is our only QB since Gannon with a winning record... so yeh, go figure
MY understanding is that the average team cap space is around $10mm. If the Raiders are anyway in vicinity of $8mm that's not half bad... thanks to Reggie.
We had a carryover from last year of about $4mm, which is added for adjusted cap of around $127mm.
One reason some teams appear to have so much cap space is large carryover amounts.
The point the Raiders still have a ton of dead money is a good one. I haven't seen comparison with other teams but I would guess the Raiders are among the worst in the NFL... implying we will get the least value from our roster.
All that aside, the Raiders clearly have the ability to sign players, including more options with the current roster. IMO, it's being well-managed by McKenzie.
It makes zero sense to sign high-priced vets when you don't have a supporting cast of players already on the roster. Right now we just need bodies... that's why trading down in the draft, if possible, makes the most sense.
NY, here is what ProFootball posted March 26th:
Bengals: $28.9 million.
Browns: $28.7 million.
Buccaneers: $28.8 million.
Jaguars: $26.6 million.
Eagles: $26.3 million.
Packers: $18.3 million.
Bills: $16.8 million.
Dolphins: $15.7 million.
Cardinals: $14.0 million.
Patriots: $13.4 million.
Jets: $13.0 million.
Colts: $11.7 million.
Titans: $10.7 million.
Broncos: $8.8 million.
Lions: $7.2 million.
Ravens: $7.2 million.
Chargers: $7.0 million.
Seahawks: $6.8 million.
Falcons: $6.2 million.
Bears: $5.3 million.
Vikings: $5.1 million.
Texans: $4.9 million.
Giants: $4.5 million.
49ers: $4.5 million.
Saints: $3.3 million.
Redskins: $3.2 million.
Chiefs: $3.1 million.
Raiders: $2.8 million (after cutting Kelly, it went to $7.25 or so million).
Steelers: $2.5 million.
Rams: $1.0 million.
Panthers: $936,000.
Cowboys: $51,000.
So as you can see, the majority of cap space is clearly more than $10 million. :)
Rumors that the Raiders were interested in Kolb have resulted in Kolb finalizing a deal with Buffalo.
Cardinals say they will take Palmer if he agrees to restructuring contract.
"So as you can see, the majority of cap space is clearly more than $10 million.
Not sure I see that RNate.
13 teams (40%) are over $10mm, and many of those teams brought cap space into this offseason under the new carryover rule (made part of the 2011 CBA). For example, the Eagles have about $26mm in cap space but that includes $23mm in carryover.
The carryover effectively increases the threshold teams are allowed to spend.
Again, looking at the Eagles, they have an adjusted cap of $146.8mm.
The Raiders cap is $127.1mm.
Yet if you look at their current cap levels, Raiders and Eagles are very close to being equal.
The Raiders biggest crime is the out-of-whack contracts that McKenzie is trying to clean off the books. However, on the surface, the Raiders available spending room appears relatively average for the league.
The league average posted by NFL.com as of March 27 = $10,521,963... which is inflated by the new carryover.
BTW, the Cowboys, who have the least to spend under the cap, just signed Tony Romo to $100mm contract, and they increased their cap space in the process. Not saying it was a good move, but clearly shows the cap means very little to some (including the late great Al Davis).
And if you look at teams that do not manage the cap well, they don't last as far as being a contender. This is where the "late great Al Davis" failed in his final years...he never gave the cap it's due respect and it always bit him and the Raiders in the ass, STILL IS. Just as it will to Jerry Jones (Wannabe Al Davis clone), Snyder in DC...cap management is HUGE in keeping a competitive team for extended periods of time.Pretending it doesn't really matter is a joke.
JONES
JONES
1. Adding quality players through the draft
2. Retaining top talent on your existing roster, and
3. Adding quality players through free agency
These are the lifeblood of a successful team.
Sound cap management is the means to do parts 2 & 3.
"Pretending [the cap] doesn't really matter is a joke."
Where did I say that?
Jones = strawman
Set aside your sour grapes and enjoy Easter. Cheers!
was it directed at you? It's a general statement. This whole board isn't about NYR, just to let you know.
JONES
Jay Glazer is reporting that Flynn to Oakland is a done deal, with the Raiders giving up one pick each from 2014 and 2015.
Let's see if the Raiders get a pick this year from Arizona for Palmer.
While I liked Carson Palmer and still think he could have been successful here next year, this moves makes too much financial sense.
New take is up, Welcome Matt, Adios Carson!
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