Five Postgame Takes
1. After one game, I've already seen enough of Matt Flynn.
2. I just loved that corner blitz from Woodson, where he came flying around the edge to hit RGIII right in the sternum. Brought back good memories.
3. Crap That Bugs Me Dept.: Just under five minutes to go, down by 10 points. First and 15 at the Washington 31, and Flynn hits Mastrud for eight yards. Tick, tock, tick, tock...THIRTY FIVE seconds then elapse before the next snap. What, did we think some sort of quick strike was coming from Flynn? If we were going to score twice, it was going to take time, and there we were, just wasting it. You could make the argument that we had two timeouts and that there was still plenty of opportunities left, but it just seemed out of touch with the plodding (at best) ability of our offense to gain yards and move the ball. Of course, it was all moot after Flynn attempted that lame sneak on fourth down with 3:30 to go...
4. I know there were some breakdowns, but I'm liking our defense. We finally have some modernized energy going on...They're getting after it, mixing it up, and showing some fight. I think a foundation is being built on that side of the ball.
5. It's our offense I'm worried about. There's no question now that Pryor is our man, at least this year. Without him, we're hopeless on offense. I think we've seen enough of McFadden to know that he's nothing terribly special, and he's considered our "star" skill player. Reggie's got a lot of work to do on this side of the ball.
2. I just loved that corner blitz from Woodson, where he came flying around the edge to hit RGIII right in the sternum. Brought back good memories.
3. Crap That Bugs Me Dept.: Just under five minutes to go, down by 10 points. First and 15 at the Washington 31, and Flynn hits Mastrud for eight yards. Tick, tock, tick, tock...THIRTY FIVE seconds then elapse before the next snap. What, did we think some sort of quick strike was coming from Flynn? If we were going to score twice, it was going to take time, and there we were, just wasting it. You could make the argument that we had two timeouts and that there was still plenty of opportunities left, but it just seemed out of touch with the plodding (at best) ability of our offense to gain yards and move the ball. Of course, it was all moot after Flynn attempted that lame sneak on fourth down with 3:30 to go...
4. I know there were some breakdowns, but I'm liking our defense. We finally have some modernized energy going on...They're getting after it, mixing it up, and showing some fight. I think a foundation is being built on that side of the ball.
5. It's our offense I'm worried about. There's no question now that Pryor is our man, at least this year. Without him, we're hopeless on offense. I think we've seen enough of McFadden to know that he's nothing terribly special, and he's considered our "star" skill player. Reggie's got a lot of work to do on this side of the ball.
posted by Raider Take at 5:48 PM
89 Comments:
Take,
Straight up were 36 games into the Reggie era and I can not think of one impact player the guy has acquired.
Please name me one bona fide quality starter he has picked up. Fuck this salary cap crap and all the rest of the excuses to not find one high end player in 2 plus years is unacceptable.
And man if you are going to have a shit team with no talent at least get a great coach with experience. Allen is a total light weight its so obvious he is green
Sad stuff
Philip
This Washington team was so beatable it's not even funny. As bad as Flynn was, if he hadn't thrown the pick 6, Raiders probably win it. And what's with Janikowski? His miss gave them a short field for their TD drive.
Flynn just looked horrible though. Didn't move up in the pocket or have any awareness in there. Also, never challenged deep, unless you count the underthrown ball to Moore early.
Obviously, after the salary cap purge, Raiders can't afford to have any key players go down with injuries and offense was minus 3 today. Still, I think they win it without the mistakes. Wasted a good defensive effort.
Philip,
Reggie has been with the Raiders for 20 games (his 2nd season) not 36 games (3rd season).
No need to make up $hit to make your point.
As I've said many times, Reggie and DA deserve at least 3 seasons before blowing things up and starting again. This is season 2.
I will be happy if I never see #15 between the white lines again. A pitiful performance.
I like what I'm seeing from the D. It is a unit that can be built upon.
Tough loss but looking forward to Pryor returning to add a dynamic, hopeful element to the offense.
Here we go again. What 'great coach' would have taken the job? The situation was so unstable last year with no help with draft or F.A. money....should he have dug up Lombardi? Salary cap isn't an excuse, it's a reality.
Allen wasn't ready today, Olsen wasn't ready today, Offense wasn't ready, Flynn wasn't ready, if he ever could be ready.
Allen was Green this week, he let the Pryor injury become a distraction, that is disappointing. This loss is on Allen, IMO, he has to do better.
JONES
Seems as though Jano is fragile...he misses his old buddy and might have a mental block, his leg has been bothering him as well. What could go wrong....did.
JONES
2 0 1 6
20 games 36, 10 whatever lets deal with the issue not one impact player. I dont expect a playoff team but after 20 games you think he would add some talent. I don't see it? Not one top nfl starter from Reggie now that is a fact. But I can count lots of whiffs on every big move he has made. Hayden, Bergstrom, Briesel, Flynn. Raiders are going anywhere as long as morons like Allen and Reggie are running things. 5-15 dont lie
Philip
Turns out Flynn’s 480-yard 6-TD game was a fluke. Flynn has no pocket presence; no vision down field (can’t see a defender positioned directly in front of his WR); and no accuracy.
As I've said before (but was shot down for it), Flynn is not even the second best QB on the Raiders roster.
The Raiders need sustainability at the QB position. Pryor could be that guy but there also needs to be an effective backup.
IMO, it's pretty clear Matt Flynn is not the QB of the future. For my money, I'd cut Flynn and promote McGloin and Wilson to 2-3, respectively. Then, I give both QBs playing time before the year is out.
This might allow the Raiders to flush out a legit progression at the position, or determine if they need to draft or sign another QB.
Play of the game was the fake punt for a first down. Unfortunately, the series fell flat with uninspired QBing.
The defense looks fundamentally improved. Of course, had Pryor been in the game, the D would have spent less time on the field (Raiders would have had an extra 70-80 yards rushing).
Hayden had allowed 13 completions in 17 passes thrown to his man, for 152 yards, plus a 24-yard pass-interference penalty. In Week 3, he missed six tackles against the Broncos.
great pick Reggie
lmao
Take a step back and look at what happened this past week.
By Allen's words, he thought Pryor would start, the team thought Pryor was going to start...night before the game, Pryor isn't starting.
Wiz said the team was let down on Saturday night because they thought Pryor was ready. Flynn was a just incase sort of deal.
I think the week leading up to this game was handled poorly by the team and the Coaches. They were not ready and that is on the Coaches.
IMO, the team should have made the decision to go with Flynn early in the week and prepped all week for that. Instead, we heard of them splitting reps in practice, confusing the situation even more.
Sure Flynn sucks, but Allen did not help the team at all the way he handled the situation. If handled properly, they probably are 2-2 and today.....growing pains are a bitch.
JONES
I still don't forgive Dennis Allen for hiring Knapp and changing the O back to Zone blocking knowing that Macfadden cannot perform in that typo of O.
I believe when you inherit players you play to their strengths while when you draft you aim for players that fit your scheme.
hue did good by interacting with his players and pulling the best out of D-Mac.
Reggie blew it on two fronts with the trade for Flynn. First off all Flynn is awful does not look like a starter, yet Reggie didn't renegotiate his contract as part of the deal w Seattle.
Last year Reggie went into season thin w DBs. That was on him.
He has not impressed me with any picks.
B3
Bringing back Woodson has been his best decision because Raiders fans are fiercely loyal and Woodson brings an attitude that we have lacked probably since he left. But realistically bringing him back was a no brainer.
Kudos to the D Coordinator.
Hindsight is 20-20 but we should've kept Bush and got rid of Dmac.
I hate what they did to Coliseum. Simple economics tells you drop prices, people will come. Everything is marked up so once they come in you going make money..
Mount Davis ought to be $10-15.
If you can't get a Franchise QB, you rebuild by building both lines, so you can compete in the trenches.
Dennis Allan you got to go Kiffin Style...
Jones - that's a fair assessment. It's tough to call because, apparently, Allen wanted to go with Pryor who ended up being unable to play. I doubt even Allen knew how bad Flynn is... Practice and games are completely different.
Nothing that's happened this week or so far this season has changed my opinion about Allen or McKenzie. This is a work in progress.
Is no one willing to try and name an impact player Reggie has acquired?
Are you not willing to admit the cap problem is strapping him from doing so? The guy brought in decent talent to fill in the Roster with approx. 40 mill less than the other teams. On top of that, he had no assets to work with and only decent draft pick placement this year...until you admit that, then you will be ignored.
JONES
Thanks Jones as usual you have put your foot in your large mouth and you essentially admitted Reggie has not brought in any impact players. You sure are great at excuses though.
Sorry dude but Reggie does not get a two year pass he should have made some progress by now in the talent department. I don't expect the 85 Bears but not one quality player acquired that is lame.
He could have drafted an impact player or spent Flynn's 6mm on one. Or signed someone like Blount or how about traded for Boldin.
Thanks for answering my question your silence speaks volumes
LOL, what a clown....he replaced the whole Defense, made some decent signings considering the shape the team is/was in. They didn't know if Pryor could play, so they needed to get depth at that position...once again, what was the better move?
JONES
Woodson is Reggies biggest impact player.
There are no other impact players on the team.
Sea Bass has regressed.
McFrAgile is hurt again.
Watson is raw and injury prone.
Hayden Has not impressed.
Nobody impressed last year.
Even Reggie selection for coach Dennis Alan is unimpressive.
Our best player is pryor and that's Al Davis pick not Reggie
On a shoe-string budget, I would argue that Reggie has acquired many good perhaps not high impact players.
The question that I have for Mr. Anonymous is simple:
What were you expecting when we had no high draft picks in 2012 and no significant money to spend in 2013? How and what do you trade to acquire a player like Boldin? Put down the fantasy football joystick and return to the real world.
If you look at the D, Reggie turned over 90% of the starting roster and it is clear that the D is much improved.
Guys like Sims, Woodson, Jenkins, Porter, Ross, Roach, Burnett, Maiva, Sio Moore, and yes, Hayden, have created a platform for a competitive D. Pathos, Giordue, Jennings, Streeter are certainly serving their purpose on offense.
Lots of people putting a nail in the coffin of Hayden which is premature and ignorant in my book. The kid is getting over a traumatic, life threatening injury and only has a few starts in the NFL with a disjointed preseason.
Let's circle back in week 8 and see how Hayden is progressing.
I'm very confident that Reggie will add high impact players next off season when, wait for it, he actually had the wherewithal to do so.
Good post, Jack.
Ano...thanks for not answering my question of what would have been a better move to the QB position....your silence speaks volumes.
Watson will be a good player, just having bad luck with injuries, look around the League and you will see it all over.
Reggie isn't going anywhere, what about you Ano?
JONES
"Is no one willing to try and name an impact player Reggie has acquired?"
That's a loaded question. Do you mean the kind of impact player that gets paid ridiculous money then grossly under-performs his pay? Guys like Randy Moss and DeAngelo Hall and so many others that Al Davis drafted, signed or traded for over the years, the most recent of which have hamstrung the Raiders financial ability to sign upper tier players for the past couple years?
Give me a blue collar work ethic every day!
The best thing McKenzie has done so far is dismantle a very bad, overpaid roster. Do you actually miss Tommy Kelly or Richard Seymour? Are they your impact players?
Be patient and let it come together.
Hey Guys I am into facts not biased opinions of desperate fans. Bottom line Reggie has drafted 16 players and not one is starting. Not exactly knocking the cover off the ball.
Umm, Sio Moore is starting. Menelik Watson was starting until injury. Miles Burris was starting until injury. Brice Butler and Mychal Rivera are going to be starters in the future and have done a hell of a job. I think Matt McGloin should be given a chance. Jack Crawford is proving he will be an impact player on this team, as well as Jason Hunter. Christo Bilukidi is making strides at DT. What do you mean that none of his 16 players are starting.
More times than not in today's NFL, team's use a base, nickel D. Yup, Hayden is a starter. To add to Nate's list, technically speakng, Rod Streeter wasn't drafted last year but was an undrafted FA. Does this count as a starter, Ano?
"On a shoe-string budget, I would argue that Reggie has acquired many good perhaps not high impact players."
Not to mention Reggies pick up of last year Philip Wheeler (who is still beasting in Miami!)but due to our current salary cap situation we had to let him go and others who were LEGIT impact players! This year pick up players are going to keep showing promise but come next year we should be able to keep the best ones and bring in more talent with the salary cap under control and more room to make moves on the market!!
So Ano keep talking out of your ass and or face and sit down buddy!
We moving in the right direction!
I love the Raiders also but you guys are grasping at straws.
The responses I got mention guys who are injured or on another team or according to GM Raider Nate will be starting soon.
Lets review: Brice Butler has done a hell of a job--lol, God help us if he is a starter anytime soon? Streeter would not start anywhere but the Raiders. Hayden is not starting period.
"Jack Crawford has proven to be an impact player" what the hell are you talking about Raider Nate that is just foolish yeah your right he is the next Reggie White. Does nto have a sack yet but hey lets get that Canton Bust ready for him
What is even more pathetic is that Reggie can not add starters through the draft on a team that has perhaps the lowest talent base in the entire NFL.
Sorry this is offensive to you guys but the reality is the Raiders suck shit. Apparently the truth is not appreciated in this comments section. Find me someone independent like a sports writer from the Bay Area who is saying Reggie is doing a good job there are none
Okay let me try again: Miles Burriss will be as good as Lawrence Taylor as soon as he comes off IR.
Here is the facts 16 draft picks and last game (not next year not last year, but right now today) only one started Sio Moore and that is because Maiava got injured.
The same guys in this comment section who trumpeted Matt Flynn and Denis Allen have now turned against them, soon reality will set in and you guys will be booing Reggie its just a matter of time. Sorry if I am ahead of the curve.
Anon -
Reggie has been the Raiders GM for less than two full drafts (tallying only one 1st rd pick and one 2nd rd pick).
Ok, forgetting for a minute that McKenzie has had less than ideal circumstances, how many impact players can be named from the previous 10 years? ...and not guys that played well for other teams; guys that made an impact on the Raiders. Unfortunately, there's a huge difference.
P.S. I'm not just referring to the draft. I mean globally. The answer is simple, and it's why McKenzie had to purge the roster. When you climb out of the basement, you can't start from the roof.
NY are you teaming up with Jones now? Just joking
Actually take a look at the last four Raider drafts
http://www.raiders.com/history/draft-history.html
Al was not doing a stellar job at the end of his life. But hey between 10 and 11 he found 2 legitimate potential pro bowlers in Veldheer and Houston, a high quality starter in Wiz a decent starter in Moore and serviceable players in Ford and Jones. Other guys like Barksdale and Brown are starting on other teams.
Now that might not merit an A grade and I know its still a little early to judge the 12 and 13 classes but it sure isn't looking anywhere near that good for Reggie so far.
Not sure why everyone wants to crucify me for pointing that out
Anine-Ano,
You keep trumpeting the magic "16 draft picks" but let's look at it within context;
In 2012, our 1st pick was the end of the third round, Tony Bergstrom.
Were you seriously expecting to find "high impact" players in rounds 4-7? Really?
The reality of the 2012 draft is that we added depth and competition for a depleted roster by drafting in the back end.
Bergstrom, Burris, Crawford, Criner, and Bilukudi have started or had significant reps in the early stages of their careers.
I realize none of these guys are world beaters but once again, what do you expect in the latter stages of the draft?
2013 - The season is 4 games old and you pretend to know what's up with rookies? Please. Judging rookies this early on is fool's gold and you know it.
I believe Hayden has a bright future but it will be a week by week progression. You seem to conveniently forget that the guy had very little preseason work. He has the talent and character to be a top echelon CB but we will have to wait and see.
Watson was penciled in to be the starting LT before getting injured. That's the way it goes sometimes but quite obviously to the coaching staff, he has the tools.
Don't know why you think Maiva is the starter over Moore because he isn't. Moore has been the starter since day 1 but didn't suit up for week 3 due to a concussion.
As far as the rest of the 2013 draft (4th round and beyond), it will naturally be hits and misses and long term projects.
BTW, of the "16" draft picks, these 7 got significant playing time vs. the Skins; Jack Crawford, Juron Criner, Cristo Bilukudi, DJ Hayden, Sio Moore, Michael Rivera, and Brice Butler.
I like these guys who have all these complaints...once you ask them for a solution....CRICKETS.
The years I complained about the Org, at least I could offer a solution to what the problems were.
These Hue lovers, who try to make out like the roster of the past was just loaded with talent and somehow Reggie has frittered it all away. Hue made an 8-8 team...8-8, the salary cap was maxed and the culture of the team was toxic. It was the worst case scenario for the long term. Yet, we have fans that cry for Hue and want D.A. and Reggie fired...anno is either really dumb ( a ghost from the past) or it just loves to yank chains. I'm going for a little of both.
JONES
...not teaming; just agreeing on this point.
Arguably, your pre-McKenzie list doesn't have any "impact" players, just a few starters.
I agree Veldheer and Houston have tremendous potential, but I would say that about many of the picks McKenzie has made... they just need time to mature.
Jones
Thanks for helping make my arguments for me. Let's agree with you that the roster was not loaded with talent when Hue was coach well then he must have been a good coach to get the team to 8-8
I think its obvious, Hue was a way better coach than Denis Allen is. Hue inspired which is an important of football and was an awesome play caller. The players loved him just ask Lechler
Jones before you start calling people dumb consider that in the space of a week you went from calling Flynn the second coming of Unitas to saying he sucked. Care to comment on that
http://goo.gl/fM3W36
Calico, did your elementary school teachers tell you that sometimes it looks like you don't even pay attention?
In particular: "The reality of the 2012 draft is that we added depth and competition for a depleted roster by drafting in the back end. Bergstrom, Burris, Crawford, Criner, and Bilukudi have started or had significant reps in the early stages of their careers."
Well let's review some of Al's picks over the last two years of his life.
2010 - Veldeer-3rd, Ford-4th, Stevie Brown-7th
Allen and McKenzie hated Brown, so they cut him loose. He was signed by the NY Giants and broke their record for single season INT return yards in 2012. Maybe it would have helped if they studied the Raiders roster when they took the job. They both admitted that they didn't, which is why they returned to a ZB system after the team had abandoned it.
2011 - Denarious Moore-5th, Ausberry-7th, Van Dyke-3rd.
Allen and McKenzie didn't like Van Dyke either. He now starts for Pittsburgh.
You're not expected to think here. You are expected to have a confrontational attitude.
8-8, wow, he took an 8-8 team and made them 8-8. Hue is so good that he is buried in Cincy. Hue threw the players under the bus, Hue said the team lacked heart etc....going down that road is such a bore. Been through it all before...keep crying for yesteryear like it was such a magical time...yawn.
Oh yeah, I made Flynn out to be Unitas...and you make sense....those 2 statements are equally accurate = not accurate at all.
Come here to play your troll games...not getting much action over at the other site? You just can't live yourself unless you are prodding others for reactions? Damn, it really must suck to be YOU.
JONES
Balanda said...."You're not expected to think here. You are expected to have a confrontational attitude."
Well, Balanda, by reading your post, you are living up to those standards. You confront Jack and by what you write, you must not be thinking....this site is so much better when you aren't trolling it.
You bitch about being mistreated while you mistreat = ONE RULE FOR THE CREW....and not the same rules for everyone else...the more things change.....
JONES
Ii rest my case.
Blanda
Balanda, instead of bitching and whining, what is the solution? If you want to complain, then have a better solution, otherwise, you are just a whiner.....and we all know what that rhymes with. Hue Jackson is not a solution, it's just a faded dream that some can't let go of = YOU.
JONES
It's an interesting discussion but, again, I think a bit premature to call out McKenzie based on his limited access to resources, etc. In the short time he's been here, he has operated at a clear disadvantage to the 31 other teams in the NFL...
Jones - I owe you an "I-told-you-so." You shot me down for even suggestion Matt Flynn wasn't even the second best QB on the Raiders roster. Apparently, Dennis Allen agrees with me. Flynn is now the #3 QB and McGloin has been promoted to #2.
Allen admitted things didn't work out as planned with Flynn... and now the Raiders are paying him $6.5M to backup the backup. That falls right into agruments presented above by others... but doesn't deter my resolve to support McKenzie and Allen.
I really admire the Raiders quick recognition and fast action. There are NO scholarships on this team.
Right on Blanda appreciate the support. God forbid someone provides a different opinion than Jones, Calico etc they get insulted.
But hey insults are usually a sign of defeat. These guys dont want to face the facts but you spelled it out nicely Al found some great players after round 2. So yeah I was expecting Reggie to find starters in the draft especially on a team where the talent sucks.
Okay here is a fact Reggie's two biggest signings have been Briesel and Flynn do I need to say more. Not being a troll Jonesy just keeping it real. But hey that is probably Hue's fault that Reggie had to sign Briesel and Flynn
right?
Blanda dont worry we can remind these guys of all this in a year when Reggie has been fired and they turn on him
For all the Reggie nut huggers answer me this simple question: If you could trade Hayden right now straight up for anyone else in the 1st round pick 3 or below would you. I think I can name five guys (Mingo, Richardson, Loutelei, Long, Warmack etc etc) off the top of my head who i would exchange him for in a heart beat.For once dont cop out and answer the question.
When Reggie drafted Hayden I was like who the f_____ is that lol
NYC love your comments bro but seriously your support for Reggie is based on his ability to recognize his mistakes? Come on man he should loose his job for mistakes like that. It almost sounds like all these guys who fawn over Reggie for getting the cap in order he is a GM not an accountant
Go Raiders
Sandy
Way to go NYR, you hit one...then you gloat, sure sign of a man.
How many GM's hit on ALL their transactions?
Briesel is the biggest signing? Exaggerate much? 1.3 mill this year....Flynn? Traded for a 5th?
Woodson? Porter? Walker? Sims, Roach? Jennings? Burnett? ETC...Ridiculous.
JONES
Hey at least we don't have a qb controversy. Pathetic
Briesel and Flynn were the two biggest $$$ signings. They are both huge wastes of money. Do you not agree with that Jonesy? Or was a 3rd string qb for 6.5 a good use of funds what about a 2mm plus lineman who cannot get on the field
Man for that money they are stars we could have signed like Carl Nicks
Porter, Roach, Jennings stop gap guys on their last go around who will be out of the league within two years
Hey, at least we have fans booing the backup as he is being introduced in his 1st start as a Raider.
And at least we have fans that want the HC and GM fired right now because they say the HC/GM are making the same mistakes as the last regime... Yet, when you ask them what else could be done...crickets.
All they can say is FIRE THEM, just like the last regime used to do and look how that turned out... then claims to be AHEAD OF THE CURVE...RIDICULOUS...
JONES
Porter, Roach, Jennings are big parts of this team.
Who on the Raiders in the last 10 yrs hasn't been a stop gap/ injured player and out of the League in a couple of years? It didn't just start when McKenzie showed up.
In HINDSIGHT, yes, that money could have been spent elsewhere, once again, PRYOR WAS AN UNKNOWN, Flynn was traded for because there weren't any other options. Ignoring this point doesn't mean it never happened, it did and it has to be taken into account, unless you are just an ass and want to argue.
Flynn hasn't worked out, not all moves do especially when you are revamping the roster for 2 seasons and it is still without top talent.
The reason being = draft picks traded away, no assets, no cap space, org in a complete mess...take these things into account, if you don't, you are being RIDICULOUS.
JONES
Blanda,
I'm not sure exactly you are trying to convey -- but if your point is that some players drafted in the 3-7 rounds become starters, I don't disagree.
Some players (drafted or undrafted) become starters in year 1, year 2, year 3 or never.
Some players become rotational players (nickel, DLine) or depth.
Nothing new here.
Jones, you have no problem dishing it out but you can't take it.
"Flynn was traded for because there weren't any other options"
Lol. Still riding that horse? McKenzie had first hand knowledge of Flynn, which makes his trade even more bizarre.
Looking for options begs the question why Pryor wasn't given more playing time during the end of a bust season last year so that the Raiders could better gauge his talents. Even in one game last year, he showed tremendous poise and leadership.
Other options McKenzie had included selecting from a long list of free agent veteran QBs, even if only as a stopgap to get Tyler Wilson on the field, who McKenzie thought enough of to draft with a 4th rd pick, but then waived.
Really, your unwavering blind faith makes you the leader of the "new crew."
Sandy - IMO, McKenzie's job should hinge on a body of work, and not one or two bad decisions. Firing him now, before he's had time to do his job, makes no sense.
A decade long revolving door of head coaches should have taught us something.
NY thanks for your reply. I just think McKenzie has not impressed at best he has fixed the salary cap which does not take much football acumen. Now his mistakes and inexperience are beginning to show. At some point Reggie and his supporters need to stop blaming the past for the situation the Raiders are in and look at himself.
Not saying he does not deserve another year based on it takes more that two years but I have not seen one move that would justify "This guys is a football genius and he is turning the team around"
What really concerns me other than the guys Al drafted like Wiz, Veldheer, Reece, Pryor etc. Is Reggie has not added any real foundation players. Maybe Hayden, Rivera or Watson will become one. I guess I am disappointed by the lack of impact he has made after two years. It takes years and years to build through the draft so when you whiff on a Bergstrom, Burris, Wilson and your signings are busts you guy from a 3 years plan to what a 6 year plan?
I think we would be fooling ourselves to think the Raiders are going to be significantly better next year than they are this year.
Take care
Sandy
"Thanks for helping make my arguments for me. Let's agree with you that the roster was not loaded with talent when Hue was coach well then he must have been a good coach to get the team to 8-8 "
So you mean Hue was a good coach after replacing Tom Cable, who the year before, took the Raiders to an 8-8 record. Does that make Tom a good coach as well?
Look, Rivera, Hayden, and Moore are going to be caliber players. And I've said this before, and I will say it again; entering into this past offseason Reggie stated that his FIRST PRIORITY was to build DEPTH on this team through the draft and Free Agency. He did not say "impact starters". The reason he said this is because he knew he couldn't sign impact starters. His first interview after the draft, he said the Raiders are in a position to bring in impact players after this season; but we were going to see improvement and competitiveness in the team this year.
He has done this! Burnett, Roach, Breisel, Bergstrom, Criner, Crawford, Walker, Sims, and Porter; are all depth guys that are competitive and are above average in their positions (not great, but above average). Reggie has set the stage for the next phase of bringing in impact players next season. You will see some key impact players on O-line, D-line, LBs, and WRs brought in. As good as Moore, Streater, Butler, Criner, and whomever else at WR; we still do not have a solid #1. As good as Veldheer, and Wiz II have been; we still do not have an established "Captain of the Line". As good as Houston and Crawford are on the pass rush; we still do not have consistent pressure on the QB; but the stage is set to bring those guys in; that will not only bring immediate impact in these areas; but will help make the aforementioned names better, and compliment what they have already done well.
This is exactly what Bruce Allen and Jon Gruden did. They utilized Jeff George, knowing he wasn't the best; but was above average (at the time) at QB. Then they went and brought in Romanowski, Rod Woodson, Rich Gannon, Tyrone Wheatley, Charlie Garner, Sam Adams, etc; and made the team better and stronger. But they built that team on a solid core of players already here (Beikert, C-Wood, Eric Allen, Tim Brown, Barrett Robbins, Lincoln Kennedy, Lance Johnstone, Russell Maryland, Kauffman, Mo Collins, etc).
This is similar to what we have now. We may not have the impact players, but we are in a position to bring those guys this next offseason. And though the Raiders are 1-3, they have been in every game fighting (you can argue they were blown out by the Broncos, but who hasn't this season been blown out by the Broncos?).
The reason why I'm supportive of Reggie is he has done what he said he would do; which was establish depth this season with a competitive team; and set the stage financially as well as talent wise, to bring in impact players next season.
Now for those who want Reggie gone; tell me what you would like to see a GM do differently?
Raider Nate to answer your question:
Not pay 6mm for a third string qb and hire someone who has no experience as a head coach. I think those mistakes overshadow cleaning up the salary cap and building depth with second tier players
No NYR, just keeping it real, which you have a real problem with. Once again, NYR, now READ IT.....
Pryor was looked at as "not being ready" last year, remember? Remember Pryor even admitting that he didn't even know how to throw the ball properly?
ONCE AGAIN, Palmer was expected to come back this year until Palmer said HE WANTED OUT, remember?
Now McKenzie had to dump Palmers huge salary and try to get some depth at QB because PRYOR WAS STILL AN UNKNOWN. ONCE AGAIN, WHO ELSE WAS THERE?
Don't tell me there was a long list of QB's....TELL US NAMES.
Also, NYR, the Seattle Shithawks signed Flynn the year before to the huge contract...how BIZZARE is that? Seattle wanted out of that contract, Raiders wanted depth, so they sent them a 5th rd pick. Now how fucking BIZZARE is that?
Maybe agreeing to pay Flynn this year was used to finish the trade? Once again, your limited knowledge is exposed, NYR. You should be the last poster on here gloating like you are football 'insider'.
JONES
SANDY says..."It takes years and years to build through the draft" ...
Yet, in the next breath he says "why hasn't Reggie built a winner yet " = RIDICULOUS. AND, this 'person' is already judging this years draft class as a failure. So in other words, whatever this clown is writing, is just a bunch of bullshit.
JONES
Hey NYR, did you not read my posts stating that Allen should take the heat for last Sunday's loss? Talk about 'crew ', one rule for you....you just keep repeating your talking points and totally ignore anything that goes against them. Definitely a crew tactic.
Instead of just looking at what happened, try and give some thought to WHY it happened, then your reasoning ability can improve greatly, good luck.
JONES
NATE said ..."Now for those who want Reggie gone; tell me what you would like to see a GM do differently?"....
All you are going to get is CRICKETS and the come back...."why did Reggie get Flynn and waste 6 million...or.... this draft class is a bust....or....D.A is a total loser and will never win with him...or... where are all Reggie's impact signings " .....
IF you try to reason with them and give them FACTS as to why it is what it is, they ignore it or pretend it's just an excuse and never really happened.
I think it's called insanity, trying to clue these guys in over and over and expecting different results, LOL.
JONES
The only one ignoring facts is this very angry person names Jones. Fact of the matter is in two off seasons Reggie has yet to add what most NFL observers would describe as an impact starter. Maybe Woodson and we know he is at the end of his line unfortunately.
Oh great football sage Jonesy tell us who Reggie has added that you can definitively say is an impact starter today as in now. Not next year or sometime in the future I mean now.
Oh silly me am I being unreasonable? I should probably give Reg at least 4 years to add a couple of above average players. How could I be so foolish as to want my team to be successful and add at least some talent, I will check back in around 2018
Dear Jones
Why such indignation. I have been a Raider fan since 74 were you even born then?
Just because some of us criticize the GM and Coach does not mean we love the Raiders any less than other.s
In fact many people here have trashed Al Davis during the last few years. I mean Al is the Raiders and the Raiders are Al. If people can criticize the man who is responsible for every success the team ever had surely its okay to throw a few barbs Reggie's way
Don't be so mean its all good we are all on the same team
All the best
Sandy
Whatever, drive by troll.
Go ahead, throw your barbs, if they aren't warranted or there is a reason behind them....I'll be here to explain it for you.
I wrote it out in plain English and still you ignore it, so what is the use, hey Sandy?
I have been a fan since '70, so you don't have any seniority on me.
Al Davis got heat because he wasn't doing what needed to be done to create wins. He left a MESS, this new regime has barely had time to sneeze and you want them fired...way to go Sandy, very sound 'logic'.
It's going to take a while, any dope can see that at this point. ANY GM is going to have his hits and misses, expecting hits on all transactions is not reasonable.
There isn't a quick fix no matter how much you cry and stomp your feet for it. Let it happen, let them do their jobs...they came into a disaster, never seen it before, in all the years of pro sports...and you want it all, right now...RIDICULOUS.
Bye Sandy, have fun at the beach.
JONES
"I will check back in around 2018" ....
Make it 2028, by that time, I'll be too old to give a shit anymore. See ya, sockpuppet.
JONES
Somebody named Jones needs a hug
Are you in your 50s Jones?
All the best
Sandy
”ONCE AGAIN, WHO ELSE WAS THERE?”
”Also, NYR, the Seattle Shithawks signed Flynn the year before to the huge contract...how BIZZARE is that?....Once again, your limited knowledge is exposed, NYR”
Jones, Really? Your persistence with this question has reached a point of embarrassment. Why don’t you look up the answer before asking it 10 times?
The list of FA QBs was longer this year than usual. Some of these guys are having decent seasons playing for new teams, at reasonable salaries, and others bring tremendous experience to the table, e.g., Rex Grossman signed for under a million.
And just to add incredible insult to injury, McKenzie increased Flynn’s guaranteed money from approximately $2.0M to his full salary around $6.5M. Your propensity to look foolish on this matter is perplexing... but keep up the good work.
Joe Flacco (Signed six-year, $120.6M deal with BAL)
Kevin Kolb (Signed two-year, $6.1M deal with BUF)
Matt Moore (Signed two-year, $8M deal with MIA)
Ryan Fitzpatrick (Signed two-year, $6.5M deal with TEN)
Tarvaris Jackson (Signed one-year deal with SEA)
Matt Hasselbeck (Signed two-year, $8M deal with IND)
Jason Campbell (Signed two-year, $3.75M deal with CLE)
Chase Daniel (Signed three-year, $10M deal with KC)
Drew Stanton (Signed three-year, $8.2M deal with ARZ)
Matt Cassel (Signed two-year, $7.4M deal with MIN)
Josh Johnson (Signed two-year, $1.445M deal with CIN)
Brian Hoyer (Signed two-year, $1.965M deal with CLE)
Byron Leftwich
Brady Quinn (Signed one-year, $780K deal with SEA)
Vince Young (Signed one-year deal with GB)
Matt Leinart
Rex Grossman (Signed one-year, $960K deal with WSH)
David Carr (Signed one-year, $1.005M deal with NYG)
Derek Anderson (Signed one-year, $840K deal with CAR)
Charlie Batch
Bruce Gradkowski (Signed three-year, $4.95M deal with PIT)
Kellen Clemens (Signed one-year, $870K deal with STL)
Tyler Thigpen
Trent Edwards
Tim Tebow (Signed two-year, $1.385M deal with NE)
JaMarcus Russell
Caleb Hanie (Signed one-year, $715K deal with BAL)
Dan Orlovsky (Signed one-year, $905K deal with TB)
Josh McCown (Signed one-year, $865K deal with CHI)
Seneca Wallace (Signed one-year, $840K deal with NO)
A.J. Feeley
Troy Smith
Luke McCown (Signed one-year, $840K deal with NO)
Chris Redman
John Beck
Jordan Palmer (Signed one-year deal with CHI)
J.P. Losman
Kevin O'Connell
I hope we can still be friends. Seriously, if you weren’t such an ass about everything, you’d be ok.
A real list of winners....Flacco was untouchable and signed immediately with the Ravens...the rest isn't much of a list either. Lots of names, not much quality, doesn't prove much, NYR.
I think the Raiders were trying to get a QB that they could build around, someone who wasn't a retread, they took a flyer on Flynn, didn't work out, it happens. Cling to it as your glorious moment, NYR, they don't come around for you too often.
Friends, funny guy/gal.
JONES
OK, just did a few quick searches...FACTS, the top tier of F.A. QB's were already signed prior to Apr 1st when the Raiders traded for Flynn. All that were left were bottom tier.
At this time, Carson Palmer had informed the Raider Org that he wanted out.
So, yes, NYR, there is an explanation IF YOU LOOK. But you continue to ignore the circumstance that all of this came down with. When you actually look at the facts and stop generalizing, you will see there wasn't many options. I stand by that, go ahead and spin, facts say otherwise.
JONES
Lol. I post a list of approximately 40 FA QBs, many of which signed for under $1.0M, and all of which are better than Matt Flynn, and you make a generalization that "top tier QBs were already signed prior to the Raiders trade for Flynn..." but then complain I shouldn't make generalizations. Really?
And what would possess you to equate Matt Flynn to top tier QBs?
You asked me for options. I'm saying the worst QB on that list was a better option than Matt Fynn.
The Raiders would love to be able to sweep Flynn under the rug and forget ever acquiring him. The only thing keeping Flynn from switching roles with Wilson on the practice squad is his "vet" status and his ridiculous salary, which is fully guaranteed.
Flynn was clearly a mistake. The mistake has been identified quickly, handled decisively with accountability.
I'd feel a lot worse about the acquisition of Flynn if it cost us a high round pick and we shoved him out their week after week.
Its the money/cap dollars used when there was precious few to spare. Reggie has made three major free agent signings Woodson, Briesel and Flynn. He is 1/3. CJ your right the draft picks were inconsequential. But man that money could have been used to keep Wheeler or Bryant or go after a top guard like Nicks or Levitre. Oh well better luck next year hopefully
I don't miss any player(s) Reggie let go for cap or other reason(s). However, the idea the money could have been spent on the O-line is a good one. This is an area of considerable weakness that will have to be addressed next year.
I’ve been a Raider fan since the fall of 1968. Anyone who was a fan of the Raiders before the AFL/NFL merger should understand the NFL hatred of Al Davis, and why the press completely bought into their hatred. They should also understand the nature of the attacks made against Davis. Essentially it was the goal of the NFL, since the merger, to drive Al Davis from the game. The league repeatedly made efforts to ruin his business deals and relations, which is why Davis repeatedly won law suits against the NFL for interfering. One of the continual memes that the NFL put out was Al Davis’ team cannot be successful in the NFL because of the way he runs his team as a business. While it was true that, under Al, the Raiders would never become wildly successful as a business enterprise, up until the Raiders returned to Oakland from LA, the Raiders were the world’s most successful sports franchise (in Win/Loss percentage) over a period of thirty years. When the Raiders were finally losing for seven of the last eight years of his life, the NFL (and the press – and most folks on this website) said, “See!”
One of the things that Gruden mentioned during the game against the Donkeys was that Davis tended to draft players based on a particular useful skill. In the case of Freddy B. it was his talent creating separation and his excellent hands. The Raiders used Freddie as perhaps the best possession receiver in pro football history. Gruden said that Davis came to him and said that James Jett was one of the fastest men in the NFL. “Use it!” he told Gruden. Gruden said that he used Jett to draw defenders downfield which repeatedly opened up Tim Brown underneath. He claimed that Jett was partly responsible for Brown’s high numbers, and Gruden seemed satisfied with the results. But to hear the league, the media, and Raidertake.com tell it, Jett was just a scholarship player who was useless, and Gruden was forced out for his failure to use him.
Hue Jackson was the first Raiders coach since Gruden (and Flores before him) to understand that central foundation of the Davis philosophy. Jackson went to the Raiders’ skill position players when he became HC and asked each what the player thought he did best and what he got most excited trying to do. That, over any other reason, was why, under Jackson, the Raiders began to show success again. Jackson was the first coach since Gruden to use players how they were envisioned when drafted. That is why Heyward Bey had Cliff Branch numbers under Jackson, but fell back to also ran status under Allen. It’s why DMC displayed his promise under Jackson, but has looked like just another 1st Round bust under Allen. The Colts use Heyward Bey the way Davis envisioned and they are very happy with him.
While there has been much belly aching on this site that Raider coaches won’t adjust to the talent that they have, there has been no recognition here that Jackson did precisely that. If nothing had changed… If Davis had lived and Jackson remained head coach, I believe that we’d be looking ahead to our third consecutive excursion to the playoffs this year. Instead, we look like an expansion team, and likely will for a few more years to come. Maybe longer.
But that’s all in the past. It is what it is. I’ll comment on the current regime later.
NY I live on the east coast I assume you do. Are you staying up for the whole game Sun night or DVR?
I could handle a 3 am night if I knew they would win. If they loose I may end up fighting with my coworkers Monday am on that little sleep and majorly cranky. LOL
Anyway how do you like their chances Sun at midnight
have a good weekend
Steve
Blanda you rock. That post is on point. Hue got the best out of McFadden. Reggie should of swallowed his pride and kept Hue it would have made for a more competitive transition. Long live Al
oh sure, Hue himself said that team didn't have the heart and wanted to make many changes after they went 1-4 down the stretch.
so now balanda wants to rewrite history and say the Raiders always had the talent, but the coaches weren't using it in the way Al Davis envisioned. what a crock of crap......
balanda also thinks that the salary cap would have never been a problem because Al Davis could cook the books so well....he also believes that Kelly, Seymour, Huff, Routt, would still be leading the team into the playoffs....even with the team Denver now has? Talk about dreamy BS....but that is what balanda does...too funny.
JONES
I used to wonder why JONES is such a jerk. But then I realized that it's the same answer as to how someone gets to Carnegie Hall. Practice, practice, practice.
Ano keeps beaking about Briesel...he is being paid 1.3 million and is rated as # 16 at the Guard position according to PFW. Sounds like he is value for his money this year. But don't let that get in the way of a good talking point.
Meanwhile, you completely ignore Porter, Jenkins, Roach, Walker, Sims, Hunter, Jennings ETC....but don't let that get in the way of making it seem Reggie is "1 for 3" .
Flynn didn't work out, get over it, there are going to be hit and misses, get over it. For a guy that made out like signing Boss and a couple of nothings as a "SPLASH", you sure down play all the signings Reggie has made.
Like Jack wrote...this regime see's the mistake and have taken the steps to correct it...that would of never happened under the old regime...so take it as a positive.
JONES
I'm only a jerk to those who are complete tools. Don't be a tool troll and there is no problem. But balanda wants to come in here, do his drive by's, spewing his same old rhetoric and then call others jerks. Look in the mirror, SOB, you are the BIGGEST jerk in town.
JONES
Keep practicing.
Keep beating that Flynn horse, NYR...ride that thing into the dirt. It's your glorious moment, don't let it fade.
They took a shot at Flynn "it didn't work out". We get it, I'm sure all those QB's that were left, after Palmer said he wanted out, would have done much better on Sunday vs the Indians? Is that what you are telling me? Hindsight is a wonderful thing, hey NYR?
JONES
Stick around balanda, you are the perfect practice DUMMY.
JONES
Jones seriously I think you just like to argue. Briesel has been mediocre at best and that is being generous. They already forced him to restructure his contract once because he was so bad last year. He won't be on the team next year. He is a ZBS guy at best and we all know how that went for the Raiders
If you are going to post that Briesel was somehow a good signing or reasonable value you loose all credibility. Wait that went out the window when you were talking up Flynn.
Last year, Briesel did not come at value, this year he is playing better and at a decent price...so what's your beef? By the way, it's LOSE....loose means NOT TIGHT. Yeah, I really talked up Flynn, just like he was Johnny U, right?
And you write about credibility? Like I said, you are a clown and whatever you write is bullshit anyways....credibility....is that what you get when you can't refute was is written so you attack the guy writing it?
JONES
the only one attacking people here is you Jones with all your insults and name calling. Are you a generally an unhappy or insecure person? Smile take it easy we are all here for fun. Its just lively debate
my posts are about football. Yours are about trying to get under one's skin. You ignore points being made while you repeat at nauseam the same talking points over and over, thrown in with some name calling and discredit tactics. Your innocent act is just another game...play on.
JONES
My only question is, if McGloin is good enough to be #2 this week, why wasn't Flynn pulled last week in the 4th Quarter?
"Keep beating that Flynn horse, NYR...ride that thing into the dirt"
Jones, my posts were in direct response to you badgering me for options Reggie had instead of signing your man Flynn.
I'm done if you are... ;)
Steve - I watch every game. Missing a couple hours sleep and/or work is a no-brainer. Chargers look tough but I think the Raiders having Pryor back and being hungry give them a real chance.
Enjoy the game!
Note to Dennis Allen: 50% of Rivers passes this season have been 5 yards or less (in the air). That's 50% check downs.
I expect the Chargers to continue this pattern, as well as employ some hurry up offense... which other teams have been successful doing against the Raiders.
IMO, the Raiders need to stay aggressive at the LOS. Stay tight on the WRs and blitz from all angles.
Rivers is smart but he's no Peyton Manning. Woodson telegraphed his blitz of Manning two weeks ago and Manning responded with an easy TD completion on Woodson man.
I mostly like what Tarver has done but we can't revert back to a vanilla defense.
Here's what Florio thinks of the Raiders possibly signing Freeman:
"The Raiders would be a mild surprise. They like Terrelle Pryor, but Pryor has been only good, not great. And Pryor arrived before G.M. Reggie McKenzie, who has whiffed on both Matt Flynn and Tyler Wilson. Bringing in Freeman, who is still only 25, could lay the foundation for the kind of turnaround that McKenzie is trying to engineer."
Gamenight thread is up. Tonight's theme: turning the tide.
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