Giants Gameday Thread
The theme of today's game is "no excuses." The Giants are beatable. Early game, East Coast, yah, yah, yah...I don't care. The time is now to right the ship and put last week in the rear-view mirror. GO RAIDERS!
posted by Raider Take at 9:26 AM
41 Comments:
Pryor only needs an avg game to surpass Rich Gannon for franchise record rushing yards in a season. Giants are tough against the run but they have been burned by mobile QBs. That has to be a theme today for the Raiders.
Just win, Baby!
Pryor is regressing and is not capable of running a down field passing game. Great guy, great athlete, exciting and a leader but you got to be able to throw the ball down the field and he cannot. Lack of pass blocking is not helping. Maybe in time Pryor can learn but if this type of play continues Raiders may be looking for a QB next year again as usual
Defense showed heart and played to the end... Pryor looked lost, like he'd forgotten everything. Can't blame the O-line for this one.
I agree. Pryor has not looked good for many weeks, and continues to regress. It's made worse by incredibly average playcalling.
Giants are not that good. The Raiders really let one get away today!
I agree...the spark is gone from Pryor...now he is just rattled and confused. He has made leaps and bounds and he still doesn't look ready. The O-line sure doesn't help, someone in his face most of the time...hard for a raw QB to be effective with that O-line.
Defense looks like it has regressed as well...lack of talent is really starting to show on both sides of the ball. Jenkins will be done after this year...they bounced back and played a decent East Coast road game, wasn't good enough though.
JONES
IMO, the play calling is a reflection of where the Offense is at. The execution is not there, from the O-line, to the QB, to the WR's...it's in shambles. When the O-line is blowing assignments almost every play, QB totally rattled and WR's that cannot get open or make a catch. Calling imaginative plays isn't going to work.
These guys can't even run the basic plays without breaking down. So, Olsen has to keep it simple, otherwise it could turn into a real mess of turnovers and penalties. The O-line has to be solidified if this Offense is going to make steps forward. Until that happens, expect more of the same.
JONES
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OK, here's what I don't understand, Peyton Manning just scored, comes to the sideline, next thing you see is he's studying the film/stills... he does this whenever he comes off the field, whether he scores or throws a pick... I have yet to see Pryor sitting on the sideline with photos in his hands.. he should want to see what went right and what went wrong immediately, to be able to either capitalize or make adjustments... it leads one to think he doesn't understand what he sees...
A very frustrating day because our defense played up to par and kept us in it until the end, in spite of getting no rest in the second half.
The difference is Peyton Manning is calling his plays at the LOS once he sees the defensive alignment. He stands alone in the NFL, and certainly unfair to hold Pryor to that standard.
That said, Pryor will have to play better to keep his job. Pretty soon, the season will be lost and fans (perhaps coaches too) are gonna want to see Matt McGloin in action.
Shout out to Kalif Barnes, who was a one-man penalty machine today. That's the old Barnes we all know.
Playcalling can be kept simple and still be more dynamic. We're not talking differential equations here. The Raiders were having success testing the Giants on the edges, then started running up the middle and continued to do on first downs though they were getting stuffed. Same thing they did unsuccessfully last week... although Jennings is far better than McFadden.
How about a called roll-out, and not just ones that evolve after plays break down.
Tough to get the big picture but I have to believe the WRs let the Raiders down today. Moore dropped at least 3 and seemed like they struggled to break open. Pretty obvious the Raiders are still without a top WR.
If I remember correctly, they did call a couple of rollouts in the 2nd half and 1 was picked and the other should have been picked. Pryor easily could of had 4 picks on the day and that was with vanilla play calling. Imagine if he had to think? This is why they keep it simple.
Throw in the O-line getting blown up on every play. The O actually played better in the 2nd half and that ain't sayin much.
Pryor is not progressing in breaking down a Defense and what they are doing. But again, he doesn't get the chance often because the O-line is breaking down.
The O-line has to be stabilized before this Offense can move forward in their progress. Until then, it's going to be what it is and the other teams know it.
Can't fool them, so it's power football, beat them man to man, it will toughen these players for down the road. When the Offense isn't ready to execute the basics, then the O has to be simplified...this is what you are seeing.
JONES
Pryor took a step back today. Reading his body language, he looked dispirited instead of the swagger and confidence we saw earlier in the season.
When you are running a vanilla offense, you need to minimize sacks, turnovers, and penalties.
A bad loss for the Raiders because they handed it to the Giants on a silver platter with the blocked punt TD and interception TD. Sound, solid football would have been more than enough to beat the Giants today.
@nyraider... I only used Peyton because that game was on (he does it every time, but then he's Peyton), but most QB's go to the sideline and see why they got picked or why the play was blown; I know the kid get's frustrated with himself, because he sits on the bench looking that way... but my point is that is the time to study, see what fucked up... the more you understand the quicker you are to recognize and react.
Disappointing loss (again).
Agree x 4 with anon. Pryor is regressing. They're comparing his numbers the last four games with the #2 which will not be named. Actually, they're worse!
Bothers me a little that his comments after the game seem to be using his knee as a bit of an excuse.
Hard to say if the WRs are at fault because he doesn't give them a chance to catch the ball (Moore's drops aside). He's really hesitant in pulling the trigger and throws a heck of a lot of floaters. Just doesn't seem to see the field well at all (Holmes was open for a TD early). I'm hoping for the best because he does work hard and is a good dude, but not seeing improvement in his 3rd year.
On a positive note - Porter looks good. Need to sign him for next year!
Pryor is 1 td - 8 int in last 4 games.
But let's not forgot a shout out to Denis Allen 1-11 on the road during his year and half as coach. Sorry guys as bad as the talent is that is still pathetic.
The majority of the commenters here seem to love Reggie and Denis, how many would trade those two clowns for Gruden in a minute.
I think any sane Raider fan would gladly take Gruden over those two. Here is to hoping the team tanks and Mark Davis gets desperate enough to fork over the big time $$$$ Chucky would want.
Bring back Chucky
This whole offense is suffering. We cannot expect mediocre blocking to get us to the next level. We cannot expect to move the ball downfield with passes, if our WRs cannot separate themselves from DBs.
We cannot expect Pryor to grow as a passing QB, if he does not have the support around him to do so.
Pryor was rattled because he wasn't as mobile as he has been. He injured his leg last week, and there are still negative effects of that lingering, even though he is healthy enough to play. His ability to scramble sometimes gives him more time to pass the ball. He did it numerous times yesterday. On one play he escaped a sacked and passed it 25 yards for a first down! It was unbelievable! The next time that happened, he threw an INT! Why? His WR did not get separation, and the DB jumped the route!
So yes, he made mistakes, but he also played well. I'm annoyed with our offense right now. We are not good, unless we are running the ball. This next offseason, the o-line will be revamped, hopefully we will have a true #1 WR, and a new RB. Then we will see how Pryor does!
JUST WIN, DAMNIT!
RaiderNate 75, you say Pryor made mistakes, but still played well.
I guess we were watching different games.
Pryor completed only 11 passes all game.
He either holds the ball too long, or takes off running too soon.
If it's all on the 0-line, so be it.
But if that's the case, what's the diff who the QB is.
All I know is, right now the Raiders have a zero passing attack.
Raider 00, he is holding the ball to long because he doesn't have anywhere to throw it. I didn't say it was all o-line, I said o-line is part of the problem. It is mostly the WRs not getting separation from the DB to make a play.
Pryor throws the ball well, when he throws it. But like any young QB, he also makes bad reads. It appears he does poorly because he doesn't throw often. I'd like to see him improve as QB, but the only way that is going to happen is to get WRs around him who can consistently get separation and make plays on the ball. D Moore is our #1, but he's inconsistent at being open; so is Streater. Name one valid WR on the Raiders? You can't, and there lies 80% of the problem! Sure, Streater and Moore can catch and stretch the field, blah-blah-blah, but they are inconsistent. DBs know that if you jam them at the line, they can't fight that off because they don't know how. That is what we are missing.
This is the reason he holds the football too long, or runs out of the pocket.
He makes mistakes, and I'm fine with that, that is part of the growing pains. The INT he threw yesterday was totally on him, because he should've thrown it away. Yes, it hurt too; but not as much as his WR being in the picture and not making a play for the ball.
Pryor has a strong arm, and he's proven that with some of the throws he made yesterday. The Raiders just need some strong WRs around him to help him grow as a passing QB. If we don't do that, we will not improve offensively.
It does not help when you got first and goal on the 1 and you run the ball once? WTF was that, crappy coaching
Looking at the Raider schedule its sad to see they will probably only be favored in one game (Titans) maybe.
Annon,
I believe on the 1st and goal from the one.
First down run failed.
2nd down, a play action pass failed.
3rd down, Barnes jumps offsides, and Raiders are backed up to the six.
3rd down, pass failed.
4th down, kick a field goal.
***********************************************
Right now Pryor is no better than Tim Tebow. He can run, but he can't pass.
The same guy that used to slam Chucky as a non Raider is now crying to sack the new regime and bring back Chucky? The same guy that used to slam Chucky because he was too conservative? That used to tell us that the Raider O didn't really take off until Chucky went to Tampa? That Chucky turned his back on the Raiders because he was spreading rumors of going to Notre Dame? The Ano crew is doing ANOTHER about face? This Ano guy will write anything to try and disrupt...will not post a name because his AGENT COLOR will be exposed = ORANGE.
ANO
Pryor is a young QB, when he is going back to pass, he isn't getting much time, EVER. So instead of reading to field, he has to read the O-line 1st and see where the breakdown is going to come. THIS IS HIS 1st READ, once he see's that, then he can look down field, by that time he only has a second or 2 before he has to start running for his life.
You can't blame this on the Kid. The O-line has to be solidified if Pryor is going to make any steps forward. Otherwise, he is just trying to survive out there and NO young QB will succeed in that environment.
The coaches see this and have to call plays accordingly, blaming Pryor is not kosher, it isn't on him. Coaches are doing what they can with the personnel they have = no O-line, lower tiered WR's, a TE that can only block and a 2nd string RB. Defense is playing decent...they went into NY to play a 10:00 am game with almost no O to speak of and came close to winning. Last time they went there, they lost 44-7, I think. P A T I E N C E.
JONES
I hate to bring this up because the kid's got great heart, and great ambition but could part of the problem be what his wonderlic score revealed? That he's only able to absorb a certain number of plays and plus with his penchant/preference for running to the right, it makes defending against the Raiders very easy.
IMO, there's no question Pryor has regressed since he looked so promising against the Colts. Even in last year's mop up game against the Chargers he seemed to show resolve that he didn't have yesterday.
My opinion is that he is thinking too much and/or being asked to be a pocket passer when he really isn't.
Pryor is an elite athlete but he's not an elite QB. He brings a special skill to the position, without which he is sub-par as a QB.
Aside from Pryor, I agree with Nate that WRs are not getting separation, but wonder if Pryor is seeing the field... referring to Homes being wide open down field and waving his arms at Pryor on a busted play when Pryor probably should have been looking his direction.
Pryor is a guy that I expected to win 2-3 games on his own, with the Raiders riding his shoulders. That's what separates the great players from average players.
Based on what we've seen the past few weeks, that doesn't seem possible.
I am losing my patience with Oline, WRs, play calling, and Dennis Allen
I think Pryor would be better if all of those improved but seems like he's not the answer either.
Check out the latest episode of Hey Vato: Bless us Al Davis. http://youtu.be/kt1fnKINUwI
If you don't think Pryor is a big part of the problem at the moment, read Chris Hansen's dissection here.
And that was before the Giants game.
His post-Giants game follow up is here
No one is saying he can't turn it around, but the signs are not good right now. If he doesn't dramatically improve, might be looking at Derek Carr in the draft next year.
Denis Allen needs to go he is small time
I think the 2 big reasons Pryor took a big step back vs. the Giants were (1) poor protection provided by a make-shift OLine and (2) his lack of confidence in the 1 ability that set him apart which is his wheels.
Being less than 100% physically took away his security trump card which is explosiveness.
The take-away and reality is that he needs to become more adept at the "regular" QB functions w/o relying solely on his god given athletic gifts.
The question for Pryor is whether or not through hard work, experience, and an improved OLine he can become a competent, reliable QB who read the field better and makes better decisions. After 10 NFL starts, the jury is out.
What I'd like to see from Pryor in the next 3-4 games is noticeable improvements in managing the game and minimizing the back breaking negative plays. Playing a clean game by throwing the ball away, limiting INTs and fumbles, would be a step in the right direction.
Pryor is only valuable to the Raiders if he can make plays when others can't. Once the Raiders solidify the O-line (presumably next year), they will be better off with a savvy pocket passer... which Pryor is not.
If the Pryor experiment fails, I hope Allen doesn't wait until the final mop-up game to get McGloin some valuable playing time, as he did last year with Pryor.
I say once Veldheer comes back, Pryor either has it or he doesn't... in which case, it's the next man up.
Sounds like TP didn't inform his coaches about his knee being still hurt. TP has some maturing to do. He seems immature in his PC's and his " I've got to put the team on my back " is starting to wear thin.
Selfish on Pryor's part, same shit he pulled with his concussion earlier. It doesn't help the team, he talks about ALL FOR THE TEAM...but I am seeing selfishness on his part...he wants greatness and he is putting his goal over the TEAM...that shit gets you in the bad books with teammates.
Raiders do not need a DIVA, they need someone with a solid head on their shoulders...I am not so sure Pryor has that.
JONES
Pryor is just one of many weak areas on the team.
I would blame Reggie and Denis for putting together a shit team more than a guy who was a long shot to make it as qb in the NFL to begin with and is playing behind a horrendous o-line. Think about if Flynn was the QB would they have even won 1 game?
I have read a lot of comments on this blog saying that year 3 of the Reggie regime is the magical year. I think that is laughable. Right now there is only a handful of quality NFL players on the squad. I can't see them adding 10 quality starters between now and Sept 14.
There is a solution, bring back Gruden. The franchise is a total mess: Worst stadium, second lowest value, terrible talent. The Raiders are truly in a horrible state. Only a true leader like Chucky can turn things around. He would energize the fan base, bring instant credibility and legitimacy, and we all know he is 1000x times the coach Allen is.
In one off-season McKenzie signed 10 new starters on defense alone. I don't see filling in some more holes next off-season will be any more daunting, particularly with an extra $50M in his coffers.
McKenzie made some tremendous signings in bringing in guys like Burnett, Sims, Walker, Porter, Woodson, Roch, etc. These guys can actually stop the run, something a decade of Raider teams before them couldn't do... and that's not even a close call.
We still need a franchise QB. Flynn was a bad decision and, unfortunately, Pryor doesn’t look like the answer either. Perhaps McGloin will step up but I see the Raiders drafting another QB next year.
The Raiders need both guard positions, which shouldn't be difficult to fill through the draft and FA.
You ask too much of McKenzie to make something from nothing. By my math, he’s ahead of the curve in the signings I listed above.
NYC come on really? The Raiders will be lucky to win more than 4 games this year, how can that be considered progress. Since when have we stopped expecting wins as a measure of a team's worth. BTW the guys you mentioned not one future pro bowler and I betcha any money half of them won't be here next year.
Hey Ano...got a name you can use....Freakinbrokenrecord....onandon? Maybe just FREAK?
JONES
Ano,
Although I'm a big fan of Gruden and appreciate everything he did for the Raiders, he isn't the right fit for an organization that is rebuilding through youth and the draft.
Gruden is the equivalent of George Allen back in the day ... utilizing a core team of tenured veterans squeezing 1-2 more years out of their career for a playoff push before needing to blow things up.
IMO, Year 3 is the pivotal, make or break year for the Allen & McKenzie partnership.
With loads of cash to spend in free agency and ample draft picks, there is a real opportunity to upgrade the existing talent level to move up a rung or 2 in the competitive ladder.
SCAR
I finally got to watch the whole game,,,
This will be a detailed critique of the offense. All I really have to say about the defense is as a unit, they did their job. Only gave up 17 points, scored 7 points,,,tough loss defense.
To start with, I'm at the point where I believe Terrelle Pryor is fools gold. He is turning into the very thing that I despised about Flynn,Walter,McCown, Brooks, Mirer, Tuiasosopo,, A dump-off qb who doesn't have the ability to go thru his progressions. At the start of the season, I thought that Pryor should be excused for the spotty completion percentage because of the offensive line getting shredded(which I believe is only partly true), and their is considerable pressure from opposing defenses, but Terrelle is just as much to blame by not being able to read defenses, and by not having the ability to make the accurate passes needed. In the NFL you see qb's thread the needle to get the ball to wide receivers that are covered, this is not in Terrelle's arsenal. Terrelle was exposed in K.C...Sad to say, and maybe he turns it around, but I see a QB as a BIG need for the Raiders next year.
Rashad Jennings had a fine game. Had some hard runs up the middle, Made good catches and then got good yards after his catches
Please, please please, come back soon Jared Veldheer, so the nightmare of 3 years of Khaleef Barnes can FINALLY end! I haven't liked this guy since day one, and I don't think The Raiders are too high on this guy either, it just shows how little talent and depth the Raiders have on the Offensive line.
Wide Reciever., I really don't see the talent as being up to par with the rest of the NFL. Again, the QB/WR dynamic still leaves a muddle as to who is good, who is bad,,,,But who can we say without a doubt is a keeper? Moore? Streater? Even these two WR's have their flaws that bring them to average at best in the NFL. Every other WR on the roster is struggling to make it in the NFL and likely struggling to stay wit the Raiders next year if McKenzie can purge the offense the way he did the defense this year.
Greg Olsen...Right now you get an incomplete grade. I am starting to agree with certain posters that your play calling is VANILLA. I just think you aren't playing to your strengths enough with the playcalling. Even still you get a pass...As to why, just look at every previous paragraph. A servicable/good defense that is going to keep you in most games naturally tends to make for a conservative plan when you have and offense full of holes.
SCAR
Scar,
I think our defense has held up their end of the bargain by playing at a good, competitive level for most of 7 of 9 games.
Shredded by the Donkeys and Beagles but giving us a fighting chance to win most of the other 7 games.
Truth be told, our make-shift OLine is the bane of this team.
Pryor doesn't have the experience and understanding of the game to deal with the constant siege of pressure he is under. He is in survival mode on most pass plays.
The return of a healthy Veldeer helps fix some of the problems by strengthening the LT position. When Veldheer returns, I'd prefer seeing Watson take the RT spot over Barnes to get Watson more reps. and experience going into 2014.
During the Eagles and Giants games, Pryor had defenders in his face as fast as he could get the ball. Briesel and Nix are bad as they get, and Barnes is back to his usual self destructive penalty ways.
But Pryor was supposed to be the X-factor behind what was known to be a weak O-line. He's been far from that but, IMO, it's been a combination of Pryor, his WRs (who have dropped more than their share), the O-line and the coaching....
Regading the latter, the idea that the Raiders have to stay "basic" or vanilla in their scheme is BS. These guys are professionals FB players and have played the game most of their lives. Please don't tell me they've reached the highest level of the sport only to go "back to the basics” ...for the 10th season in a row.
Early in the season, when the offense had some success, they were throwing the ball down field. Now, all we do is dink and dunk. Right now, the offense is a mess and way too predictable.
I hear ya NYC coaches suck. Case in point remember during Cable's last year and Hue's first how they used Reece he was an awesome weapon. Last game on the one play he gets used he goes for 16 on a screen.
Question: Who put together the O-line? Freckly Reggie that is who
Looking forward to the magical third year when all the great talent assembles. LOL
New take is up, and you're going to love it (or not). Let's talk this out.
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