A Case of Deja Vu
The last time the Raiders were relevant, they rose to prominence with an unproven head coach, a journeyman quarterback, and a mix of young homegrown talent and older veterans acquired through free agency.
It kind of sounds like the 2014 Raiders, doesn't it?
The problem is, that it also sounds like the Raiders of 2003 - 2011.
During that period, the Raiders fielded no shortage of unproven head coaches, journeymen quarterbacks, high draft picks and veteran free agents.
Such is the difference between Jon Gruden and Lane Kiffin or Tom Cable; between Rich Gannon and Aaron Brooks or Jason Campbell; the likes of homegrown legends like Tim Brown and Charles Woodson vs. Darrius Heyward-Bey and Michael Huff; motivated acquired veterans like Bill Romanowski, Rod Woodson and Jerry Rice vs. non-factors like Warren Sapp, Richard Seymour, DeAngelo Hall and Randy Moss.
There's no doubt that Reggie McKenzie has cleaned up some of the craziness that plagued the Raiders prior to his arrival, which included some of the most awful free agent signings in memory, and an apolcalyptic four-year stretch of first round draft picks that looks like this: JaMarcus Russell, Darren McFadden, Darrius Heyward-Bey and Rolando McLain.
That said, and it's something I haven't heard anyone else talk about, it's almost eerie to me how much the "new" Raiders resemble the old Raiders.
Now you can debate whether or not the new Raiders are closer in potential/upside to the 2000-2002 model or the 2003--2011 model.
But when you get right down to the hiring of an unproven first-time head coach in Dennis Allen, the turnstile of journeymen quarterbacks, the focus in free agency on older vets who may or may not have much left in the tank, all layered upon a core of young draft picks (and right down to the questionable first-round cornerback pick of last year, which was remeniscient of Mr. Davis), well, it sort of looks like deja vu all over again.
Hopefully this time it will help us recapture the glory days instead of spinning our wheels.
It kind of sounds like the 2014 Raiders, doesn't it?
The problem is, that it also sounds like the Raiders of 2003 - 2011.
During that period, the Raiders fielded no shortage of unproven head coaches, journeymen quarterbacks, high draft picks and veteran free agents.
Such is the difference between Jon Gruden and Lane Kiffin or Tom Cable; between Rich Gannon and Aaron Brooks or Jason Campbell; the likes of homegrown legends like Tim Brown and Charles Woodson vs. Darrius Heyward-Bey and Michael Huff; motivated acquired veterans like Bill Romanowski, Rod Woodson and Jerry Rice vs. non-factors like Warren Sapp, Richard Seymour, DeAngelo Hall and Randy Moss.
There's no doubt that Reggie McKenzie has cleaned up some of the craziness that plagued the Raiders prior to his arrival, which included some of the most awful free agent signings in memory, and an apolcalyptic four-year stretch of first round draft picks that looks like this: JaMarcus Russell, Darren McFadden, Darrius Heyward-Bey and Rolando McLain.
That said, and it's something I haven't heard anyone else talk about, it's almost eerie to me how much the "new" Raiders resemble the old Raiders.
Now you can debate whether or not the new Raiders are closer in potential/upside to the 2000-2002 model or the 2003--2011 model.
But when you get right down to the hiring of an unproven first-time head coach in Dennis Allen, the turnstile of journeymen quarterbacks, the focus in free agency on older vets who may or may not have much left in the tank, all layered upon a core of young draft picks (and right down to the questionable first-round cornerback pick of last year, which was remeniscient of Mr. Davis), well, it sort of looks like deja vu all over again.
Hopefully this time it will help us recapture the glory days instead of spinning our wheels.
posted by Raider Take at 4:00 PM
217 Comments:
You aren't looking at the details...you forget the rotten core that always infested the Raider Locker room will not be there. Instead it will be a core of Vets who bring class and Super Bowl leadership as well as talent. The HC will be in his 3rd year after surviving circumstances that could do nothing but make him grow into that position more. STABILITY has arrived etc....so many good things we are seeing and it is nothing like before....but, these media types want to keep dragging right back into that mud....wonder why? Comments perhaps? So transparent, RT.
JONES
SCAR
I hope I'm wrong, and I have been defending the moves RM has made up to this point, but right now I cannot convince myself that trading for Shaub is a good move.After the slow start to free agency, I think RM made a bunch of solid signings. I am however entirely in a show me mode with this trade. If there is a restructure in Schaub's contract, maybe I support this move... I might well be in the minority, but I saw plenty from McGloin last season. Either way, I hope there is a legit competition for starter. If Shaub is the best option, well then hell,,,JUST WIN BABY!
SCAR
JT The Brick @JTTheBrick
#Raiders fans wanted a new team and got one. I can't see how a real fan can complain after these moves and high picks coming in the draft?
6:17 PM - 21 Mar 2014
Picking up Matt Schaub after last season even for peanut pay and a sixth round pick still gives me pause. That guy was shell shocked last year, and that doesn't just wear off by getting new surroundings. Also, what happened to all that talk about competing for a spot on this team? DA just handed the reins to a guy that threw a pick six in four games in a row last season? Our revamped O line is going to give him the protection he needs? Its not like Schaub moves around well in a collapsing pocket. We shall see...
2014?
Seems like every year we face many of the same challenges, e.g., new starting QB, no clear #1 WR, lack of depth across most positions, etc.
This year, at least on paper, McKenzie appears to have mostly cured the defense. So it will be up to Tarver and Allen to make good. Put bluntly, coaching should now be held totally accountable for the defense.
On offense, the Raiders still need to surround Schaub with talent that will allow him to succeed. With free agency about spent, the best chance will be in the draft.
That’s why I’d probably select WR Sammy Watkins at #5, with OT Greg Robinson as my fallback. Robinson is a mauler and could be moved to the interior (Raiders want to be a running team and this guy can help make that happen!).
Alternately, McKenzie could trade down for another pick or two and select DT Aaron Donald to round out the Raiders DL rotation, or perhaps select a different WR, which this year’s draft is reported to be deep in talent.
Raiders still need a QB for the future, but bringing in Schaub means they don’t need to make a desperation pick at #5. I’d rather see McKenzie draft a QB in the 2nd or 3rd round and make our first pick plug-and-play in 2014. From a distance, I’m concerned the top QBs in the 2014 draft might not be worthy.
The Raiders were hoping Carr might be there in the second,, but Minnesota wants him too. They would pull the trigger in round 1. Even Garopalo is interesting in round 2, but San Fran may be interested as early as round1. Green Bay also is in need of someone to back-up Mr. Rogers.
Naming the QB as a starter is much better than another year of OPEN COMPETITION at QB. STABILITY....you might want to think why that is important at this point. It's time to get this team to a place where they can win games....having another year of WHO's THE QB???? is not needed at this time. Having a clear cut starter at the QB position sends stability through the team at this point.
So may questions from you, just like before and you have NO ANSWERS, just like before. You are clueless, reaching for answers. LOL, busted.
JONES
Although it is way to early to compare Matt Schaub to Rich Gannon or Jim Plunkett but here are some interesting tidbits.
Rich Gannon
Age Joined Raiders: 34
W - L Record Prior: 31-27 (.534)
W - L Record After: 45-29 (.608)
Accolades: Pro Bowl (1999-2002), NFL MVP (2002)
Jim Plunkett
Age Joined Raiders: 32
W - L Record Prior: 34-53 (.391)
W - L Record After: 38-19 (.667)
Accolades: Super Bowl MVP (1980), NFL Comeback Player of the Year (1980)
Matt Schaub
Age Joined Raiders: 33
W - L Record Prior: 46-44 (.511)
W - L Record After: TBD
Both Plunkett and Gannon improved their winning percentages and led Oakland/Los Angeles to the Super Bowl.
moshbucket said:
Take,
It's been years since I've been on your site. The old man is gone, and Jones and NY seem to be much more relaxed ;-)
The current situation is anything but deja vu. The recent signings are NOTHING like Al used to do. Al would have signed Tuck to 5 yrs 40mil and Woodley to 5yrs 50 mil (just for that play in the superbowl). Everyone that Reggie has signed are on 2 year deals (mostly) with no cap hit if they are released early. And remember when that fool WR from Denver (I can't even remember his name) offered Al his money back because he didn't want to pay and Al talked him into staying? Reggie would have taken the cash back!
PS: I think one of the reasons I quit posting/reading this site was this crappy way that messages are posted now...
The only bad thing about signing Schaub is that it may prevent the Raiders from drafting a QB at 5. If Bridgewater, Bortles or Manziel are there at 5 they need to pull the trigger in that order.
The Raiders will never become a contender again until they land an above average young franchise QB. In today's NFL it is the only way to get to the playoffs consistently
Schaub will make them better but he will nto get them to the playoffs
Who says it's a BAD THING? Many are thinking that none of these top QB's are worth a top selection. Getting Schaub takes away that HAVING TO PICK one. Now and you know Reggie looks at next years class already and maybe he see's someone there. I don't think he is impressed with this class of QB's.
Schaub is not a long term answer, EVERYONE knows this but the media. He will be a good insurance until one is found. They don't grow on trees and you have to grow your own, in most cases. At this point, it's a solid move with little risk. So much unlike the Palmer trade.
JONES
Mosh.....nahhh, that "old man" still lingers, just under SHADOWS.
JONES
Mosh, welcome back, keep 'em coming!
Wish I could change the commenting platform.
I agree, things are operationally different. Like I said, the craziness has been dialed way back (Javon Walker! Ugh...).
I just find it uncanny how the overall blueprint remains so similar in a general sense. The blueprint worked for the Gruden era. It didn't work after that. And we'll see if it works this time around.
We've got an unproven first-time head coach, another journeyman quarterback, a fresh harvest of older name free agent acquisitions, and a bunch of homegrown guys who may or may not live up to it.
It's worked before. And it has failed before. But there's no denying the general resemblance.
Once again, Take misses it.....you are saying it is intentionally done like the Gruden era....so wrong. This is how it had to be done. This is how the foundation had to be rebuilt again....because what was left behind had no leadership, no character and no talent. So it had to start from the ground up again.
What Reggie is doing is bringing in CHARACTER vets, unlike the past. They will lead the youth and pass the torch of HOW THE TEAM OPERATES within it's own walls......do you understand? For Once? The youth will carry that tradition....unless you want the youth to continue the tradition that was left behind? IDIOTS.
JONES
You're not even listening, because you're too busy banging away ALL CAPS and calling people IDIOTS.
I find the resemblance uncanny precisely because it's unintentional and unrelated, NOT intentional or related.
Lighten up. I just find it strange. Doesn't mean it won't work, or that the decision making is the same, or that the culture isn't changing.
Well there is only so many ways you can build a team....with what Reggie was given, this was the most logical. It may have some similarities, overall, it isn't even close. Stop trying to bring it back to yesteryear....we are on the cusp of NEW and IMPROVED and all you want to write about is how it looks like before? I find that strange.
If you don't want to be called an idiot....then don't be one. Now you media types are easing off on your REGGIE AND ALLEN SUCKS campaign....you want to start reminiscing about how it's starting to look like the past again....STFU with that GARBAGE IN ALL CAPS BABY.
JONES
Let's not insult Gruden by even putting Denise Allen in the same sentence. I know your mostly drawing an analogy here but Raider Take please don't tell me you think Allen can even hold a candle to the great Chucky?
Anon, I made no such comparison.
Maybe this take is too nuanced, since most folks seem to be misunderstanding it.
First-time unproven head coach: Check. Journeyman QB: check. Free agency focused on older vets. Waiting for draft recent picks to become long-term linchpins. Check.
That's all I'm saying. It's just interesting, with all of the turnover over the years, the general theme remains pretty consistent, be it during failure or success.
That doesn't mean Reggie is wrong, or that doing things differently equals immediate success.
When the Raiders tried to change the blueprint by drafting a presumed franchise QB in Jamarcus, it blew up in their face. The last time the hired a veteran head coach in Norv Turner, it was awful.
I remember not so long ago that you hated Gruden....during the Ricky's incident, you backed the idea of rejecting Gruden pics from the website and all that. Now it's the GREAT GRUDEN....you have no stability, so how can you understand stability? I understand...
JONES
The problem during the Gruden era was there was no vision for LONG TERM success (caps just for you). What Reggie is doing, is setting up for long term success. It is setting a BAR if you will and that BAR has to be met.
Gruden set that bar and he brought in some good talent that was not over the hill. That is the only similarity I see.
But it was Al Davis who was doing the drafting and trading and his outlook was nothing like what Reggie is doing. Reggie wants to build his team through the DRAFT, these vets are to set the BAR.
Al Davis NEVER wanted to build through the draft. This is a transition period, not a final cut. The team will be much better, IMO and Reggie isn't done yet.....It's a new day, why do we ALWAYS have to say it looks like yesterday? So sick of that.
JONES
Jones, first of all, I have no idea what you're talking about with regard to the Ricky's incident.
Second, this take has nothing to do with praising Gruden.
Regarding stability, I've had that in spades.
During Mr. Davis final years, I spoke up to those who would shout down any criticism of the Raiders and its management regime.
My answer to them was, if the Raiders don't want to hear criticism, then do better.
Today, nothing has changed here. That's stability.
Damn Take, that was meant for the Anno clown.
JONES
Whoops, roger that.
As far as doing better...again, you have to see what is reasonable and is he close to achieving it.
You want a playoff strong team declaring that after 3 years = they have had enough time. Once again, take it within context and Reggie has done well with what was left him.
If you can't see the vision, the direction and that he is able to acquire decent talent when all signs have said DO NOT GO TO OAKLAND FOR 20 some years....come on, like JT the Brick said., WTF DO YOU WANT?
Players want to come to Oakland again, and if the wins come and the stability stays....now the Raiders will run the League. Cause everyone wants to play for Oakland, they want to be a Raider. Have you heard the interview with Tuck? What he said about Reggie? How the players feel about him?
Reggie will build through the draft....longevity is the goal and this is still the building blocks....stop whining and be thankful this thing wasn't given to some total hack that would of ensured another 20 years of losing.
JONES
The new Raiders resemble the old Raiders because they haven't had a chance to win yet. This season will mark the beginning of the new Raider winning tradition. They now have the necessary ingredients to win consistently in the NFL: good coaching and good players, with a mix of proven veterans and talented but green youngsters. The big difference is that the new Raiders are all football players first, superb athletic specimens who look good getting off the bus second (or not at all). These guys all are students of the game, highly motivated to win and not here to cruise on the scholarship money.
Because Al spent so heavily for free agents of questionable quality, he couldn't afford, cap-wise, to have a middle tier of solid veteran back-ups (i.e., depth). It was the first string scholarship players, then the untested youngsters or less than talented journeymen.
I see where Reggie wants to go with this and I really like the direction. It is still going to take a couple of years to fill in all the pieces, but in the meantime we have enough talent and coaching now to make some noise in this league.
I love the pick up of Schaub and what this will do for the overall confidence of our offense. I believe last year was a fluke: a perfect storm of trouble for Schaub that overwhelmed him. He was recovering from a Lisfranc foot injury and other injuries, their running game went south, he was pressing too much, offense line issues, a whole gamut of negatives that impacted the guy.
As for the draft, I like Reggie's philosophy of letting it fall into their hands: i.e., pick the best available player. Don't panic and try to fill holes, that's how you end up "reaching" for less talented players.
As always, a lot of good comments, discussion and back-and-forth on this forum. Thank you guys.
Reggie isn't concerned with making splashy acquisitions to grab headlines.
He isn't throwing money at players like a drunken sailor on shore leave.
He is going after high character players who act as leaders to improve the culture within the locker room. Chemistry counts.
His philosophy is and will always be to build long term through the draft.
Yes, these statements of intent are for the most part diametrically opposed to Davis MO.
Calico-
Totally agree--that's my "take" on the free agents and draftees that Reggie has been assembling. In 2-3 years, he won't need any veteran free agents, with occasional exceptions, because the team will be "growing" them in-house from their draftees.
My best memory of Schaub, is when he threw the pick, that sealed the Raiders victory in the "Al Davis game", after Al had died.
I think Raiders brass saying Schaub is a 4/5 yr QB, is just a draft day smoke screen.
I think Raiders will take a QB at #5, or trade down for extra picks, and take a QB in late first, or second round.
Word of caution on Ted Bridgewater. Some are saying he throws the ball, flat footed. Does not step into his throws, and this causes his passes to be all over the place.
But again, all the QB's have flaws. There are no Andrew Lucks this year.
"Naming the QB as a starter is much better than another year of OPEN COMPETITION at QB."
At $6M salary, Matt Flynn was the starting QB about this time last year. The only reason competition opened up at QB was because Flynn was so bad.
There's nothing guaranteeing the same thing won't happen again this year; only that Matt McGloin will be ahead of the curve in terms of his ability to come in and replace Schaub.
Aside from his misstep with LT(s), McKenzie has done fairly well to improve the Raiders this offseason. His pick at #5 is the next critical piece to the puzzle. If he takes a QB with that pick, he better be as certain as possible because there are other safer options at #5 that almost guarantee success.
I still think McKenzie should continue to stack the QB position until we find the right one. To me, that means avoiding the guesswork of a top five pick. Trade down or take the safe option in Sammy Watkins/Greg Robinson.
Sac.....you can use the patriots as an example....I know, bad choice with Ano the patriot around....they are always near the bottom of the draft order....hard to get those impact players at that spot. N.E uses F.A to get that impact player and depth but mostly building/maintaining the core through the draft. This is eventually where Reggie wants to be. It will be nice when the day comes when the Raiders are picking after the top 20 every year.
GO RAIDERS.
JONES
I'm not excited about Matt Schaub. I do think he is an above average QB, and I think the reason his year was off last year, wasn't so much his mechanics, but Kubiak's play calling was too predictable (as evident in the mild stroke he had mid-season). I think Schaub can turn it around, and if he does it will be a testament to his overall character.
Take, the one comparison you haven't mentioned here. Under the Gruden era, there was also a solid GM in Bruce Allen. He also drafted guys for the long-term, that if given the chance would have done well. For instance, Barrett Robbins. No need to say more about him; but I feel the way the offense fell apart after his unfortunate departure; showed what kind of leader he truly was.
So I see a lot of similarities with this team and the 98-2001 teams. Mainly due to the General Manager, and philosophy of the GM.
The other difference you haven't mentioned is Al is not here to trump any of the moves. For instance, Al is not here to select a Fabian Washington, or give Stanford Routt a butt-load of cash, or telling Marcus Allen to get lost (the biggest travesty in Oakland Raider history). But like Reggie said in a recent interview, this will not be final, or graded fairly until after the season; when it will be proven if these were good moves or not.
The bottom line is that the Raiders have the consistent talent, and depth to be a competitive team this next season. No more excuses. We will see what kind of coaches we have. We will see what kind of talent we have.
Finally, I still don't think we take a QB with our first pick. Reggie was at David Fales workout, and the former OC there at San Jose State is none other than John DeFilippo who is the QB coach with the Raiders and has a relationship with Terry Shea the QB coach for SJSU. We can get Fales in the 2nd or 3rd Round, and he may be the steal of the draft. I think we still go Jake Matthews or Sammy Watkins. If neither one is there at #5; I think we trade down and get more picks.
Wow, look at that....
Matt Schaub has agreed to a restructured contract with the Oakland Raiders.
Schaub agreed to lower his base salary and cap number this season. Schaub can still earn $15 million to $20 million over the next two seasons.
This is what I thought would happen and Reggie is pulling it off....expect more signings, Reggie isn't done yet.
JONES
Where are the complainers?....looks like they are disappearing, starting to realize that Mark Davis made the right hire and that this GM could lead this team for years to come. As Raider fans, we should be very happy....wake up kids, the nightmare IS OVER >>>CAPS JUST FOR TAKE.
JONES
I think if some of you take the time to look over Schaub's career statistics, you might be pleasantly surprised. Excluding last year, Schaub has been an above average QB.
He had a QB rating of 90+ from 2008 through 2012 and completion percentages averaging 64%. In 2009, 2010, and 2012 he threw for 4000+ yards.
Also if you throw out last season, he hasn't been an Int machine at all.
From 2007 through 2012, he had 54 total Ints in 80 games played or 1 INT per .675 game rate which equates to 10.8 Ints per 16 games.
2013 was a horrible year for Schaub but his body of work prior to 2013 was above average. The only reason the Raiders were able to land Schaub was because of this bad year in 2013 AND the Texans were on the hook for 3 years of high contracts.
The Raiders landed a vet QB who is given a fresh start, has no issues with his foot, and is anxious to prove that 2013 was an aberration.
I don't like to brag....but what the hell....I posted this on Takes last TAKE....
JONES said...
Vick is going to the Jets...Schaub has better stats than most QB's up to last year. Was on a winner and had a bad year last year...he is the best of the bunch and if Reggie can land him with a low RD pick and a contract restructure...do it, Raiders need a vet QB and he is the best option out there.
10:07 AM
JONES
Jones your such a blow hard. Reggie has yet to prove anything. The team's record is crap in his two years and he has not hit on one young star in the draft or free agency as of yet. Sorry one year of Sio Moore does not count.
Perhaps he eventually will get in right in the draft so far all he does is shuffling the deck with veteran mediocre players. Porter, Jenkins and Sims one year, Tuck,Woodley and Brown the next.
Until he proves otherwise you sound ridiculous. You talk about him like he is some sort of proven winner who has produced multiple playoff teams with the Raiders.
Please take your medication or better yet show some cajones and predict what should be a minimum number of wins this year for Reggie to keep his job. I know you are too scared to do that.
Oh wait I forgot wins or more likely losses is not important in the fantasy land you and Reggie exist in.
Your also about the only dumb ass in all of Raider Nation that would actually denigrate the Gruden years. Which was the only real success the Raiders had since Bo Jackson was around. Seriously man your insane you prefer the shit of the last two years over Gruden's success.
Being a Raider fan is not blindly embracing a loosing team. You will be laughed at when Reggie is escorted out of town after another loosing season. Though I am sure you will blame Mark Davis for that
@Anonymous
You're entitled to your opinion; however, it is widely off the mark. Mr. Jones has been and continues to be right about very many things, including Matt Schaub. It is very easy for someone with an open mind to see the progress that has been made at Raider Central, and the very positive direction that Reggie and DA have been taking the team.
Yes, the bottom line is win production, and this is the year you will see it---maybe 7-9 wins, given the difficulty of the schedule. So, this disagreement cannot be resolved for some time to come.
As a fan, I remain very optimistic, and supportive of the entire team, coaching staff and management. When the team was a complete dysfunctional basket case for the so many umpteen years, it was embarrassing to be a fan.
Interestingly, Anonymous, but people who really know football or who make a living writing about it, are very positive about the moves that Reggie is making and about the quality of the coaching staff. But, I understand you think you know better. And you are entitled to your misery.
Sactown....My Man....thanks for the backup.
Ano clown...NOT ONCE did I put down Gruden and I always said Gruden was the reason the team turned around in that period. It was you who said Gruden rode Al Davis' coattails...you are a liar and a fraud, you have been trolling this site for years. You are not a Raider fan, you like to provoke, it's all you have in life, obviously.
I will leave you with your own BRILLIANT quote....
"Being a Raider fan is not blindly embracing a loosing team. You will be laughed at when Reggie is escorted out of town after another loosing season. Though I am sure you will blame Mark Davis for that"......
What is LOOSING? It is you who is blind....blinded by watching ESPN, you doink.
JONES
"Please take your medication or better yet show some cajones and predict what should be a minimum number of wins this year for Reggie to keep his job. I know you are too scared to do that."
Hah! JONESing!? yea right that loud mouth would never do that,(so as to allow himself some wiggle room for excuses afterwards)but he is slowly painting himself into a corner for sure! He talk the talk but too scared to walk the walk!? C'mon diarrhea of the mouth what is your prediction of number of losses it would take for your boys RM and DA to get the big hook??? I smell pussssssay! LOL
I would think restructuring Schaub's contract would have been more valuable to the Raiders if negotiated prior to the trade. As is, all that appears to have been accomplished is deferring salary, which could create dead money in future years if the Raiders give Schaub the Matt Flynn heave ho!
Meanwhile, Raiders have ample cap room to absorb Schaub's contract salary this year.
Jones I have not been on this site for years just since last year. Sac town what writer is trumpeting Reggie the vast majority are saying he has made the team older and not built for the future.
Schaub is worse than Palmer so if Reggie had just kept Palmer instead of signing FLynn Raiders would be ahead of the game
Jones I knew you did not have the balls to say what an acceptable win total was this coming year
Its so easy to debate with you because you prove my points for me. LOL
Anon said, " if Reggie had just kept Palmer instead of signing FLynn Raiders would be ahead of the game"
Anon, go back and brush up on your facts here, bro. Palmer wanted out, he said he did not want to be a part of restructuring; but wanted to compete with a team that had a chance of making the playoffs. The Raiders told him and his agent if they could find a team willing to trade, they would comply with his request as a favor to him for all the work he's done.
They found the Arizona Cardinals, and the Raiders kept their promise. The same thing happened this off-season with Veldheer and Houston. The Raiders began negotiations with their respected agents, and both players said they wanted to test the market.
In the recent interview with Reggie McKenzie, he hints that the offer made by the Raiders to Veldheer and Houston came early in the off-season, and they never had a chance to match.
Quote #1: "Now, we would have loved to have kept all of our guys that we lost, but it’s their decision whether to go or to stay and it was unfortunate that their decision was to leave. You have to respect that."
Quote #2: "You talk about, you can try and place a value on the franchise tag, I want to keep these guys for more than one year. I didn’t want to rent ‘em for a year. That’s not the way we do it. The key is if the players want to be here. If they don’t want to be here, we have to move on."
Quote #3: "And those two guys, they were good, solid players for us. That’s why we wanted them to stay. But they got their opportunity and they took it."
A lot of what has been said about the Raiders low-balling these guys may be true now, but when was the offer made? It sounds like the offer was made not too long after the season ended; because both said they wanted to test the market. That is why Reggie did not franchise tag them, he wanted to give them that opportunity to test things out.
He respects these players, and doing what he did shows his respect for them, and how much he truly valued them. They, on the other hand, wanted no part, and didn't give him the chance to counter-offer on a 2-3 month old offer.
I lost more respect for Veldheer and Houston, than I have for Reggie.
The bottom line with me with this upcoming season is this. We have all heard, seen, and felt the excitement of off-season moves. We have all watch in horror how our past 11 seasons have fallen apart. I'm excited by some of these moves, and I am coming into the next season with much optimism thus far. I do see a difference, and the last 2 years, I see a different energy from how the Raiders have played. The record does not indicate the overall competitiveness the Raiders have shown, nor does it indicate how a few plays that went against us, kept us from a "W". But the bottom line is, with all this excitement they still have to prove it.
That is what is keeping me balanced with the Raiders right now. Prove it. McFadden said he wants to show the fans that what he is really worth. Prove it! Tuck, C-Wood, Woodley, and Schaub all have said they want to show the fans they have something left regardless of their age. Great! Prove it! Penn, Howard, Barnes, Boothe, and Greg Olson have all said that they want to come in and be dominate at their positions. Awesome! Prove it!
The time is now, and the Raiders organization knows it. Proving it will bring the fan base back together. Proving it will solidify that the Raiders will stay in Oakland; and that Oakland will support them. Proving it will shut the haters up. Proving it will kill the 11 year monkey on our backs. There is only one way to prove it....
JUST WIN, DAMMIT!
It's a bit disconcerning that our top three free agents "wanted" to leave. Otherwise, as presented, it seems as though the Raiders made take-it-or-leave-it offers, and/or never established enough communication to negotiate and retain these guys.
At the end of the day, it's a business. So Veldheer/Houston/Jennings' desire to leave was probably about the numbers. If so, that's as much the Raiders decision to let them go as it was for them to leave. It's a 2-way street. None of these guys received crazy money from their new teams.
I think there's more to this story than the simple explanation Reggie gives (granted, it's not his job to explain to us).
Well Ano clown, it's hard to know who is who when you don't put a name to it....as far as predicting wins....they haven't even finished the roster yet?????......fuck are you fucking stupid.
and I see a visit sniff...sniff....I smell a PANTY. Hey Pantywaste, you coward, still can't show yourself here other than shadows....you are such a failure.
It's funny, they say I won't do something because I'm a coward....yet they won't even put a name so they can stand by their posts. The CREW will never change....it's always 1 rule for them....and different for everyone else = selfish, ignorant and CLUELESS = CREW.
JONES
Man, in other news, the Oakland A's are shooting themselves in the foot in getting a sport specific stadium built with a trio of new complexes for basketball, baseball, and football. They have announced that they would like a new 10-year lease for use of the O.co stadium.
WHAT!????
If that happens, it will show me the political nonsense of the City of Oakland to not want to upgrade. #2, it will force the Raiders to move. Los Angeles, San Jose, Portland, or another area. Which would you prefer the Raiders play if they are forced to move?
Craziness continues with the new stadium saga. Also, Scott Blair tweeted a quote from Reggie saying, "Veldheer chose to leave. I wanted him to stay, he chose to leave."
How many wins this year is acceptable for Reggie to keep his job. Come on Jones you can say it be brave. As far as I know teams are measured by wins and losses in pro sports. Is that still nto the case. We all gave a two year pass. Now is prove it time as Raider Nate says so lets hear it. Calico said 8 or bust Reggie out of here I agree with that number
What about you Jones
Hey, at least you spelled LOSSES right, good job, troll boy.
I'll wait until the roster is set, you can understand that concept? Or, if I feel up to it or not, I may not make a prediction this year. What are you predicting, Ano clown? AND, what are you predicting for your favorite team, the patriots?
JONES
More and more the truth comes out and all the idiots are being proven out. Raiders have a good thing going...just accept it and enjoy it....more and more it is showing that Reggie is the guy....accept it and join it....stop fighting it, he is the guy and Mark would be a fool to let him go...Raiders are in good hands, the team is on it's way back......get on the train or get the fuck out of the way.
JONES
I think as long as Mark owns the team, Reggie will be the guy.
The reason I bring up the stadium deal, and what the A's are trying to do is this. If the A's and Oakland agree to a 10 year lease, and moots the negotiation of the Raiders getting a new stadium; then I think Mark Davis sells to the dude in LA; who would take ownership of the team.
If that were to happen, then I think it would be a strong possibility that Reggie won't be the GM. I think there are a lot of things at play here, beyond what our Win-Loss record is. We could win the Super Bowl next year, but if the A's nix a stadium deal with Oakland, will the Raiders franchise be forced to sell to move the team? Right now, it's a valid question.
Also, my pre-draft prediction this year is 9 wins; despite the tough schedule. The Raiders have solidified both O and D-lines. I think Reggie will continue to do so through the draft and free agency (Wilfork anyone?). But, like I said my last post, JUST PROVE IT, BABY!
Mark doesn't want to sell, he seems to be enjoying this so far. LA needs a stadium, Owners will not allow a relocation if there is no stadium. Amy Trask spoke of this, she said with the new mandate in the League, teams can no longer just pack up in the middle of the night and move to another city. It needs the other owners approval before it can happen. Will Mark take the League to court? I would really hope not.
JONES
@ Anonymous:
Here is one man's take on the job Reggie is doing and the progress he can be expected to make (because this is a process and we are only in the beginning stages of the reconstruction part):
from Sports Illustrated:
http://mmqb.si.com/2014/03/12/oakland-raiders-free-agency/
There are other articles out there, too, but if you want to read negativity into every action of the team, then no amount of reading will change your perception.
Go Raiders!!
"I think as long as Mark owns the team, Reggie will be the guy."
Some want to treat this season like Year 1, others look at it as Year 3. So I guess the degree of accountability depends on your point of view.
At the end of the day (or year) there has to be accountability. Otherwise, there is no measure for (or need to measure) success.
I certainly wouldn't assume Mark Davis is just going to let McKenzie write checks without posting results.
nyraider said, "Some want to treat this season like Year 1, others look at it as Year 3. So I guess the degree of accountability depends on your point of view."
Or some just go by what the owner says. Don't forget that view.
Here's a great interview of Mark Davis and Reggie McKenzie.
http://www.insidebayarea.com/tim-kawakami/ci_25411740/kawakami-raiders-brass-dealing-nfl-reality
Nate - When did Davis say he would stand behind McKenzie as long as he owns the team, or that accountability will not be a factor?
Seems to me, Davis was not happy at all with results of the last two seasons, and only recently tempered his view by labeling those years as necessary deconstruction, while also emphasizing his disappointment at the lack of talent added through the end of last season.
Clearly, he stands behind RM and DA for now, but it remains to be seen how tolerant he can be if the results don't change.
Please tell me we can expect the owner to respond accordingly if results don't match promises and expectations.
And here is Mark, a new owner who admits he doesn't know jack shit about running an NFL team.
So, idiots want Mark to have an itchy trigger finger, to stand there with a gun to the heads of the GM and HC...ONE WRONG MOVE AND THAT'S IT.....FFs's, STFU with this Reggie better make the playoffs this year or he is done.
If you haven't noticed, Reggie has done his job and has done pretty good so far. You can see his confidence growing and he is starting to feel comfortable with what is happening.
Now the idiots want Mark to pull the trigger if 8 wins is not met. That has to be the STUPIDEST thing ever written. Why do Raider fans all want to be another Al Davis? Abused syndrome?
We will see, but Reggie is the best thing that has happened to the Raiders since Gruden. If Mark fires Reggie, Raiders ARE FUCKED because NO ONE WILL COME TO OAKLAND. Do you understand?
When Al Davis was here, coaches avoided Oakland like the plague. Players would not sign in Oakland because it was considered a joke, so Al had to WAY OVERPAY to keep players in Oakland. Reggie is turning that all around and you dopes want to fire him...just STFU...if it is a disaster, and it won't be, then you can cry all you want, at this point, Reggie is SOLID.
JONES
Here are some general beliefs and opinions that I have absorbed from the Reggie Support Staff:
- Matt Schaub is the savior of this organization! Never mind the disaster of a year he had last year where Casey Caseum, Keenman, Keenum...whomever took his job. Never mind that even when he was having good seasons his stats were consistently deteriorating year after year. Never mind that both TP and McGloin were high rated QBs than Schaub last year. None of that really matters. Schaub is going to lead the Raiders to the promised land.
The Raiders (and Reggie) are building for the future! Never mind that of the 9 free agents they have signed all but 1 has more than 8 years in the league. Most are on short contracts to bridge a gap....to the next round of short term contracts. That isn't important. Reggie is doing great and since the Raiders signed a bunch of people that nobody else wanted at the price that Reggie signed for it has to be a great offseason, right?
The draft is going to set the Raiders up for long term success! Never mind 13% of McKenzie's draft picks are actually starters on a 4-12 team last year. Never mind that Reggie has done nothing, nothing to display an above average eye for talent. So far in two years the Raiders have had two miserable failure for drafts. This one will be different though....
The Raiders Offense is going to be explosive! Never mind that last years 4-12 Raider's most valuable offensive weapon left the team and that Reggie has signed James Jones (a number 2 WR on a team with probably one of the best passers in the game) and...well...nobody else. They are however going to score at will next year. Next year will be the year that McFadden plays 16 games....it hasn't happened before but next year will be the year.
.....I'm generally not even a negative person. However, the insane and blind following of everything Reggie does is hysterical.
And I know, the rebuilding process isn't over yet and we have to wait to see what other splashes Reggie can muster in Free Agency. Because there is a whole lot of game changers out there left to be had. Right?
Right now, Reggie needs to focus his sights on landing a DJax or another proven game changer.
Bryan
Reggie is the best thing that has happened to Oakland since Gruden? That actually made me laugh out loud. It's like you aren't even trying.
Reggie is Solid? Again, laughing at you.
And yes, if Reggie does not perform after 3 years than he should not be the GM anymore. That is how the world works. That is how the league works. That is how business works. It isn't a difficult concept to grasp.
Continue your vulgar rants with unsupported nonsense. Because the cussing and yelling makes you legit.
Bryan
What a dick....Schaub was brought in to STABILIZE the franchise. Let me guess, you wanted Pryor to start? Vick? Are you just butt hurt because it's not them?
Schaub was the best option out there to win games this season and you still bitch because he didn't sign Peyton Manning? Reggie re-did the contract so if Schaub fails, he will no longer be with the team next year with NO CAP HIT....THINK, you idiot.
Once again, the vets brought in still have plenty of game left and are good LEADERS, do you understand that concept? Because you totally ignore it. Then Reggie drafts his guys and will be lead by QUALITY leadership, understand? This is how you build a team, understand?
As far as the draft, time will tell.
More signings to be made and there will be some more cuts down the road to pick from....the only one who is blind, is the one who parrots ESPN = you.
JONES
Bryan,
Reggie has never "promised" any of the things you have mentioned. He has asked us from the beginning to have patience (which coincidentally is repeated in the article I posted by both Reggie and Mark).
I'm willing to be patient, and here's why. After 11 losing season, and 11 seasons of whacked contracts and players; Reggie is putting people in place to help change and groom the younger players who are going to be the next leaders of the team. Like it or not, that is not done in 1 or 2 seasons; 3 seasons may be pushing it to turn this kind of organization around after years of dysfunction.
Do you know why Mark Davis was not a part of the team's front office prior to his dad's death? Because he and his dad disagreed about how to run the franchise; and Al surrounded himself with "yes" men, and rid himself of those who opposed him.
This isn't just about Reggie rebuilding a franchise, this is about Mark making a statement about how the Raiders are going to do business, and bring them back to the respectability they once had.
He knew Reggie, not just from his days with the Raiders as a player; but from his days working under Ron Wolf. There are not a lot of people that Mark Davis trusts with accomplishing his goal for the Raiders' organization, and Reggie is one of those few. All the others he trusts to help him reach these goals, have recommended Reggie to be the GM. Mark Davis is a patient man, and yes, he will hold his people to accountability. But it is a long term plan, not a short one.
This is why Reggie is Mark's guy, and will be Mark's guy; until he says otherwise. Yes, nyraider, at the end of the season, Mark was not happy with the lack of progress. But even Mark said that he wasn't going to react, but continue to evaluate. He believes in continuity of personnel; something his father did not believe in. Mark believes that if this is really our guy, you stick with him through the good and bad times; as long as you are working hard to correct the mistakes to swing the pendulum back the right way.
They started with the pendulum on the wrong side, and yes, they have made progress in correcting it whether you want to see it or not, is up to you.
Nahhh, my record on here makes me legit. You act as if Reggie has done nothing, go read Mike Silver and go watch a tom brady vid.
JONES
So the baseline for success isn't that Reggie is the right guy, it is just that he isn't Al? Seems like a very low bar to set. I would agree, Reggie is better than a 108 year old senile, crotchety man. That of course doesn't equate to success.
On the QB situation, you are kind of missing the point. Schaub is probably as good as it gets to what is available right now. Reggie has been at the helm for 2 years, he took two swings on QBs last year (Flynn and Wilson) and they were both whiffs. It is amazing how forgiving people are to the situation that the Raiders are in. If Reggie were an above average GM then he would have drafted more than 2 consistent starters over the last two years and could have come up with a Russell Wilson type steal in the draft. That is his job.
I'm hopeful beyond belief that the Raiders can turn it around. I just don't believe that Reggie has done anything to solidify the praise being cast at his step day in and day out. Mike Silver, for every article that says Reggie is doing good there are 5 that say Reggie is out of his mind and out of control. I guess those don't count...right?
So here is the Reggie challenge. Name 3 proven moves Reggie has made that would be deemed above average to the current status quo among NFL GMs. Three. That is all. Go.
Bryan
"Reggie re-did the contract so if Schaub fails, he will no longer be with the team next year with NO CAP HIT."
Says who? The contract restructure defers salary and becomes dead money if the Raiders release him. Just because the Raiders won't owe Schaub any more money if he's gone doesn't mean the NFL will just ignore his contract.
How do you think all that dead money got on the Raiders books last year?
Nobody is pining for Reggie's failure, just the opposite, only that he be held accountable. And I never said 8 wins is the baseline. ...I never said 8 years, either.
I am anxious for the draft. That will be Reggie's next major reveal.
There was no deferred salary.....they reduced it and made it guaranteed.
Just like JT the Brick said....if you can't get behind this, WTF do you want? Reggie has done as good as can be expected....you guys, who can hardly tie your shoes, think you know better....what a joke.
JONES
The reason Schaub wanted guaranteed money is because if he was released...he's done = nothing owed. So he wanted this year guaranteed so he had some security. Reggie said you want guaranteed, then you have to lower your salary.
Reggie is signing contracts so if they don't work out, they will be tossed and replaced with little of no cap hit....maybe you should do some research, NYR.
JONES
"Adam Schefter [via Twitter] verified Mar 23 'Raiders QB Matt Schaub restructured deal with OAK, lowering base salary and cap # this year; still can earn $15-$20M the next two seasons.'"
This arrangement appears to defer money to the next two seasons, hence, the restructure. If Schaub plays no better than last year and the Raiders are forced to release him, they will still be on the hook for the balance of his restructured contract, whatever it is.
You love proving me wrong so much, I'm sure you can find something to show me otherwise.
Cheers!
One more thing for Ano clown....if the media was so right all the time....why are they writing columns and not running football teams? Oh that's right, because they know jackshit...they just write crap that idiots like yourself, eat up as truth....the media is a joke, they have never played sports in their lives....they have no clue, just like you.
JONES
You'll see NYR, he took less to guarantee the money.
JONES
From ESPN Mike Sando lowest grade of any team in free agency. He makes two points that you can not spin. The oldest free agent class in the league and a bunch of players who had nowhere else to go. How embarrassing, guys just don't want to play for the Raiders anymore. Just classy C-Wood so sad
Oakland Raiders
Grade: F
Key signings: QB Matt Schaub (trade), LT Donald Penn, OLB LaMarr Woodley, S Charles Woodson, RB Darren McFadden, DE Justin Tuck, DE Antonio Smith, WR James Jones, CB Tarell Brown, G Kevin Boothe, T Austin Howard
Key subtractions: LT Jared Veldheer, DE Lamarr Houston, CB Tracy Porter, CB Mike Jenkins, DT Vance Walker, RB Rashad Jennings
The Raiders rallied to improve their roster after an embarrassing start to free agency that featured their botched attempt to sign Saffold to an overpriced contract. Unfortunately for Oakland, the moves did not set up the team for long-term success. The first 12 players Oakland added or re-signed averaged 30.5 years old, the highest figure in the league. Yes, the Raiders needed to spend money, but why chase declining players when two of their own building blocks -- Veldheer and Houston -- were headed out the door the minute free agency opened? Perhaps most importantly, the manner in which the Raiders navigated the process only reinforced their image as an organization without a direction.
"I really, honestly don't understand it," Polian said. He was not the only one.
"They will posture it as bringing in leadership to change the culture, but the guys they signed are not going to change culture," Riddick said. "Most of the guys who went there had nowhere else to go. I liked the Woodson re-sign. That is true leadership. Charles truly cares about the Raiders. But in a year when you need to spend cash and had cap room to get it done with Veldheer and Houston, why wouldn't you get it done? Even if you didn't like them much, it sends a better message than what you are doing now. Not only are you chasing with older free agents who don't want to come there anyway, but your draft picks aren't panning out."
It’s been a rough offseason for the Silver and Black.
" Never mind that even when he was having good seasons his stats were consistently deteriorating year after year."
Hey Bryan, how you can deduct that Schaub's stats deteriorated year after year is beyond me. If you look at the games played, yards, completion %, and QB rating from 2008-2012 (5 seasons) prior to last season's clunker, it shows consistent above average production.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/5615/matt-schaub
Calico do you think Schaub starts for any team in the NFL in 2014 aside from the Raiders. Even other pathetic franchises like Cleveland and Jacksonville are going to try and develop young QBs via the draft.
Don't get me wrong Schaub is probably the best QB since Gannon but if he is not the answer for the long term (Denise Allen bs about starting for 3 years aside) or even good enough to get the Raiders to the playoffs why not role the dice on someone young. I would rather have Manziel, Bortles or Bridgewater than Schaub.
Vic Tafur @VicTafur
L. Houston told Raiders he thought #Bears had better QB situation & chance 2 win, & McKenzie respected that "In end, it's player's decision"
Here is the full quote from McKenzie on Veldheer. ..... asking about setback of botched Saffold signing and if that
was a setback, considering the players the Raiders lost out on on the first day of free agency.
"No, "McKenzie said. "It really wasn’t a setback. ... The setback was the one that got away from us.
"Losing Veldheer was a blow to me. He didn’t want to come back. It wasn’t about finances. The kid didn’t want to play for the Raiders anymore, and I struggled with that."
First off Anon,
What exactly do you define as long-term?
Further, to discount the need for a vet such as Schaub to show a young QB such as McCloin or a draftee in 2014 or 2015 the ropes is silly.
Whether we take a QB in round 1 or later rounds or in 2015, a guy like Schaub is a valuable transitional asset.
The other thing that bugs me is the laziness of your comment.
Why on earth isn't Schaub capable of performing at a high level for 3+ years?
If you take away the 3 years at Atlanta where he was riding the bench behind Vick, he has 7 years of tread in the NFL.
Are you suggesting that a QB with 7 years of game experience is too old?
If Schaub has the protection from the OLine, he has a good chance of remaining productive and providing an important bridge for the Raiders to establish success.
And oh by the way, how do you know the Raiders won't draft a QB to be groomed under Schaub?
Also, have you given up on McCloin continuing his development? Don't you think he could learn a thing or two from Schaub?
I'm judging Schaub by his complete body of work. Some of you are already writing him off due to 1 poor season.
We shall see.
Thank you Jack! I was coming in this morning to post Schaub's stats, and you gave the link yourself.
The thing is, you can't look at stats alone either. You have to take in the whole picture.
The Texans were supposed to be the hottest team last season, and the WHOLE team floundered. Offensively and Defensively. I think the common denominator in this equation was that Kubiak was not right mentally; and it showed with the stroke he had mid-season. Strokes do weird things to you mentally, and if Kubiak wasn't thinking right; it would show in his play calling. I think that had a huge impact on the team last year.
It wasn't just Schaub who struggled, it was the entire team. They struggled with injuries, rookie players, and kinda fell apart. I think this season will prove that last season was a farce for Schaub; and the Raiders are banking on that too. It's a good risk for a team that desperately needed leadership at the QB position.
The more I'm thinking about, the more I'm liking it. But still the bottom line for me is to go out and prove it now.
Only time will tell if trading for Schaub was a good move. He definitely struggled last year, and that really can't be blamed on Kubiak. Schaub made some bad decisions, and it cost him a very dubious NFL record of consecutive games with pick sixes.
Meanwhile, we traded for the worst NFL team's QB who they benched last year.
Lamarr Houston is quoted as saying he left the Raiders because of instability at QB. You think he's changed his mind since Raiders traded for Schaub?
On the upside, Schaub has experience that Flynn never brought last year, and the change in environment and coaching could resurrect his career, ala Rich Gannon.
Let's hope!!
Still waiting on those three things Reggie has done as a GM that was above average in regards the expectations anyone would have for a GM.
Bryan
1. He cleaned out the roster full of overpaid wanna-be's.
2. He has put the Raiders in a competitive stand point concerning the salary cap; when he had none.
3. He has a plan and is sticking to it, something that has not been done in the past 11 years.
People want him to scratch everything and start over. Start over from what? This is the "start over". It's not always about the big splash signings, that will come. But he has to rebuild the foundation of not just the team, but the entire organization; and he has done that. This is the starting point!
When you are unhealthy, you have to get rid of the things that are making you unhealthy in order to become healthy again. This is what Reggie has done with the organization and team his first two years! It is nothing glamorous at this point, but we are at the start of being healthy again. And that is the reason nobody wanted to come to Oakland! By doing this in two seasons, Reggie has blown everyone's expectations in the League. He has shown himself to be fierce, savvy, and intelligent.
Hey guys, there really is nothing to argue about here.
This is what it is. The plan has been laid out, and that's all folks.
And we know the plan, because Reggie has said as much.
Reggie is hoping the FA signings will get the Raiders to respectability. 7, or 8 wins.
At the same time, Reggie is trying to, hit it out of the ball park, two drafts in a row.
So that, in two years, hopefully, the Raiders will have a roster full of young, talented, players.
And so when, the contracts of Tuck, Woodley, Penn, etc, expire. The Raiders will still have a lot of salary cap space.
And, again, hopefully, in two years, the Raiders will have a respectable team, full of young talent.
And will be able to attract, A/list, free agents, intead of B/or,C/list FA's.
Oh, and hopefully, by this time, Raiders will have a good, young QB to build around.
And, hopefully, and maybe. Perhaps, with a little luck...
So as the fans of the Oakland "Waiters", we are always beibg asked to wait.
We must wait another two years to see if Reggie's plan works out.
And that's the story.
Calico seriously you think Schaub is the starter in three years. LOL. I think you got it right when you called him transitional as in REggie hoping he is enough of a stop gap to save his and Denise's job
00....way to go....
What else could have been asked for? When in the depths of no return....and now Reggie has them on return....can't fault him. There are a lot of GM candidates that would have done the same thing and there are not many that could have done any better to this point. But, the bitcher's bitch and the rest watch and see what comes out of it. When Reggie was asked if this roster can win....he replied....I HOPE SO. THAT IS WHERE WE ARE AT....good job 00.
JONES
Serious question all teasing aside Jones. At what point is it okay to bitch about Reggie? If they have another losing season this year? At what point do you think its reasonable for Raider fans to expect results such as having a winning record? This year, in year 4?
Ano aka the jellyfish extraordinaire;
I don't know how long Schaub will play and neither do you. It will come down to his health and productivity which is true for EVERY single player in the NFL whether you are 22 or 32, a QB or CB.
Purely from a health standpoint (in real time), Schaub could be the QB in 2016.
As I alluded to above, he only has 7 years of "wear & tear" on his body.
Further, in today's world where you've got the best trainers, medical personnel, fitness gurus, etc., a guy in his early 30s can continue to play at a high level.
The one variable that we can't predict is in regards to the violent nature of the NFL. Injuries happen.
His birth certificate might say he is 32 but in tread he is the equivalent of a 29 year old with a relatively clean record of health.
If bringing in young talent to build this team is McKenzie's plan, why did he let go the 2-3 best young players on the team?
Jared Veldheer now gives a different account of his departure...
"“I appreciate everything that Oakland did for me over the last four years, we just couldn’t get [a contract] done,” the now-Cardinals left tackle told Doug and Wolf on Arizona Sports 98.7 FM. “It wasn’t that I didn’t want to be there, because I know that’s been said recently. That just wasn’t the case. Things were unable to get done at the table and that led to free agency and now I looking forward to Arizona and looking to what the future has here.”
Raider brass said re-signing Veldheer was a top priority. Evidence to the contrary. His $35M 5-year contract w/Arizona is very reasonable, so negotiations should not have caused the Raiders to snub him.
Hey Calico who was a cross dressing pirate this jelly fish is coming to sting you, lol.
Schaub is damaged goods both psychologically and physically. He may be the best the Raiders have had since Gannon (Palmer aside) but that is only because the Raider QB situation last year was atrocious.
But a long or medium term answer? Consider this if Schaub had anything left don't you think Houston which is a lot closer to the playoffs than the Raiders would have kept him rather than starting from scratch? That combined with the fact no other team was interested should tell you what you need to know.
The Jelly Fish
Nobody is saying or has said that Schaub is a long term answer. Reggie said that Schaub has come in to help groom whatever young QB takes over (McGloin, or whomever we draft). But he's more than a stop-gap too. He's a leader.
The only injury Schaub has had was the linsfranc injury last season.
Regarding Veldheer, the most important thing he said was, "Things were unable to get done at the table and that led to free agency." I think he was expecting to be franchised; because he did not sit with the Raiders to negotiate until after the Super Bowl. And when the Raiders made an initial offer, he told them he wanted to test the market. Sure doesn't sound like he wanted to stay. I really don't see what his complaint is. If he wanted to stay, why didn't he continue negotiations with the Raiders? If he wanted to stay, why did he want to test the market? If it was to see what he was worth for negotiation with the Raiders, then why did he sign with Arizona without giving the Raiders an opportunity to counter? Because he didn't want to stay.
Nate - I don't read that at all. I believe the Raiders low-balled an offer and that was the sticking point in bringing Veldheer back. Arizona paid him $10M more than the Raiders' offered. That's not a small amount, and still way below the franchise tag compensation which McKenzie didn't want to commit. In the end, the Raiders signed Saffold for $17.5M more than they reportedly offered Veldheer. That's an incredible inequity and it makes no sense.
I strongly believe that the Raiders should have followed through with their self-proclaimed priority and kept Veldheer as their franchise LT (whatever the cost). I think maybe ego got in the way of reaching out to Jared and making the deal happen.
Raiders have plenty of money to spend but they seem to expect their free agents to re-sign below market contracts. Yet, they offered free agents from other teams above-market compensation.
That's how we end up re-signing Darren McFadden, and signing guys like Saffold to replace Veldheer.
While I like many of the moves made, the approach isn't without flaws.
Unlike past departures, losing guys like Veldheer, Houston and Jennings are setbacks.
"1. He cleaned out the roster full of overpaid wanna-be's.
2. He has put the Raiders in a competitive stand point concerning the salary cap; when he had none.
3. He has a plan and is sticking to it, something that has not been done in the past 11 years."
1. Anyone would have done that.
2. Anyone would have done that.
3. Anyone would have done that. On a side note, his plan was to not build in free agency but develop young sustainable talent. He hasn't done that.
I thought someone would come up with 3 that he has done that have been above average moves by a GM.
How about 2? Anyone?
Bryan
The Veldheer situation is a joke. Pure and simple. nyraider is completely on target here, how do you let your talent walk and then overpay to market for replacements?
Bryan
"No," McKenzie said. "It really wasn't a setback. ... The setback was the one that got away from us. Losing Veldheer was a blow to me."
The obvious thing for McKenzie to have done was tag Veldheer. Nobody would have even blinked... even Veldheer probably expected it. Then the Raiders could have continued negotiating for a long-term deal similar to the one Veldheer signed.
McKenzie's explanation that he "didn't want to rent a player by tagging him" is a bit ridiculous. That's how the NFL works. It's a business, and players get it.
Also, hasn't McKenzie been "renting" other players with all the one- and two-year contracts he is creating?
He "rented" almost an entire roster last year.
Bryan
He has made no above average moves. He has yet to acquire one young cornerstone stud player. You might be able to say that Sio Moore is one but even that is a stretch at this early date.
Guys on this website blindly give Reggie the benefit of the doubt its crazy. I could understand that kind of loyalty in year 1, perhaps year 2 but at what point are people willing to hold him accountable with wins and losses.
I think it says a lot about the Reggie nut huggers here that Calico is the only one who has been willing to say than anything less than 8-8 this year he should be fired. I think deep down most guys know this year will be a losing year as well.
Raider Nate you make shit up, Veldheer and Houston were negotiating throughout the season. Its common knowledge Reggie low balled him. At a minimum he should have franchised him now the raiders will have to spend those cap dollars on crap. Sorry Houston and Veldheer are far better players than Tuck and Penn especially given their age
He has blow away the rest of the league? Your right he has blow them away in terms of how he has done nothing. Then again a few blogs ago you wanted Flynn back so I will let that speak for itself
Ramble on.....all that babble and not 1 point made. If you don't like the Raiders....then fuck off. You hate the GM, HC, players....face it, the only reason you are here is because you want attention, just like that kid in the grocery store screaming cause mommy won't buy him some chocolate.
Your 'arguments' are lame and have been gone over 100 x's already. For some reason, you just want that circle of stupidity to keep going round and round. Then you throw out ultimatums saying ALL KIDDING ASIDE.
You show signs of being unstable and always repeat the same post, just different words. Now you are basically on ignore because you are nothing more than a troll and a poor one at that.
You are a Raider hater, we get that...your game is used up, take it to some other site that hasn't seen your troll act. You are a fraud and you are recognized as one....see ya.
JONES
Bryan,
First, you say anyone could have done that as GM, then name 3 people willing to come into Oakland 2 years ago to do it?
Second, you also need to read the facts. You accuse me of making shizz up, but Veldheer was injured all of last season, and there was no negotiations until after the season when he had proven himself to be healthy. It is well documented that Oakland made an initial offer, Veldheer said he wanted to test the market. Reggie was fine with that with the expectation that Veldheer would field offers and come back to the table. Veldheer fielded offers, but never came back to the table. He left without completing negotiations with the Raiders. Sure Oakland low-balled him, that is what you do with initial offers, and he counters by high-balling, and you meet in the middle. Do you not understand how negotiations work? The problem is he never countered, he just left.
The Raiders and Houston were negotiating through the season, but Houston made it clear he was gearing for Free Agency, and left. Jennings was the guy we truly let get away.
Jones
You are the only one on this blog who does not make arguments you just insult people and say let's be patient. Jones why do you refuse to say what progress will be this year in terms of wins and losses? Is it because you know they will suck? If you want to make a point be man enough to say that if the Raiders don't win _______ Reggie and Denise should go. Or do you not measure progress in wins and losses.
I love the Raiders that is why I am so vehemently against what Reggie is doing. I desperately want them to win but I became skeptical after Reggie got rid of a quality coach and replaced him with a novice and then allowed Knapp to come in, it was obvious that he lacked the vision and was letting his ego get in the way.
Then when I saw what two drafts yielded your damn right I started to hate on him. I will continue to do so until he is shown the door or the Raiders return to the playoffs.
Now since you are such an ardent believer in Reggie let us all know how many wins this year you would consider to be progress. Our slogan is Just Win Baby or do you prefer Just Manage the Salary Cap Baby
Nate - you keep giving a chronology and what appears to be your own account.
McKenzie recently stated Veldheer didn't want to play for Oakland, and Veldheer quickly responded by stating that wasn't the case, and that it was a matter of money, which the Raiders clearly low-balled.
While none of us can be certain what happened during negotiations, it appears the low-ball technigue didn't work for any of the top three Raiders free agents.
That being the case, McKenzie had it in his power to tag Veldheer, who was clearly the closet thing to a franchise player the Raiders have had for many years, and certainly more worthy than many past Tag recipients.
Franchise Tag is a GM's tool. It prevents what happened to the Raiders from happening.
Now Veldheer is the Cardinals franchise LT.
This was a big setback for the Raiders... as McKenzie stated himself.
NYR ....truth comes out again, you idiot.....
Scott Bair:
The Schaub deal is for two years. His original deal with the Texans had three years remaining so this takes a year off of that.
It carries a total of $13.5 million with $8 million guaranteed.
That is a $4.5 million base salary with a $3.5 million roster bonus already paid out. There is another $3 million in incentives for things like playing time, starts, making the Pro Bowl, wins, and taking the Raiders to the playoffs. If all were met, it would bring his 2014 salary up to basically what it would have been with his old contract ($11 million).
A roster bonus is not to be confused with a signing bonus. There is no proration on the roster bonus which means it will not be spread over to next season's cap figure.
What this means is if after this season the Raiders wish to cut Schaub, they can do so with no dead money left behind.
His 2015 base salary carries a $5.5 million, none of which is guaranteed with no bonuses attached. A pretty meager salary if the Raiders decide they want to keep him.
TOLD YA.
JONES
"McKenzie recently stated Veldheer didn't want to play for Oakland, and Veldheer quickly responded by stating that wasn't the case, and that it was a matter of money, which the Raiders clearly low-balled"
************************************************************************************************************************************************************
Ok, here I have to defend Reggie. Well, sort of.
It looks to me as if Veldheer, and his agent, kind of suckered Reggie on this one.
They convinced Reggie not to use the franchise tag, because Veldheer wanted a long term deal to stay with Raiders.
So Reggie was trying to work out a deal, and boom. As soon as Free agency begins, Veldheer bolts.
This looks to me like Veldheer and his agent knew all along they were leaving.
But they gave Reggie a false impression, in order to avoid the dreaded franchise tag.
I think if Reggie knew what was up, he would have franchised Veld, even if it meant only keeping him one more year.
The Raiders had the money to burn, so dollars were no issue.
Instead, Reggie, taking Veld and his agents word, tried to work out a deal, but got burned.
This is, most likely, what happened.
NYR, Veldheer said he wanted no part of being tagged. Reggie has said that it's not the way business will be done in Oakland. He will not tag someone to keep him even if he doesn't want to be in Oakland. Reggie said, if they don't want to be here, they won't.
Reggie gave him an offer, Veld then hired his brother and that is when it seems talks stopped.
Palmer was recruiting Veld...he went for it, it's over, change your diaper and move on ffs's...or are you going to cry about that 1 point for the rest of the year?
It went bad, for whatever reason, sounds to me like Reggie backed away, he must of saw something.....time will tell....you better get a mop, all those tears must be flooding your basement?
JONES
Ano clown...you are hardly worth a response....but...anyways....You want a cornerstone or 3...well guess what, those are acquired through the draft 9 times out of 10.
Reggie has had a draft and a half since his time....his second draft...pretty much NO TEAM ACQUIRED CORNERSTONE players in last years draft, it was very low in high end talent from results at this point.
Top FA's of course go to a team that can win it all....have the Raiders been able to establish that with only approx. 70 mill to spend on a roster? Give your head a shake....any sense yet?
You want this and you want that, but when asked how you would have gone about acquiring that HC or talent = crickets.....your game is boring....go do something worth while....go make an I LOVE YOU TOM sign that you can use at the next patriots game....go, get it done.
breaking news ...Reg signs MJD RB.
JONES
By all accounts, Johnny Football rocked it at his pro day today.
IF he's the real deal, the Raiders need to find a way to get him.
That's a big IF, but it's still true. That's why Reggie gets paid the big bucks.
Any of you guys can go to CSN Bay Area, Inside Bay Area, and SF Chronicle and Gate. Dig through the archives of Raiders' news beginning last December and read the articles regarding Veldheer yourself. The timeline and account I give are based on what is said in those articles.
Just like Inside Bay Area confirming that Schaub took a major pay cut in the trade to come to Oakland.
Btw Jones, MJD is visiting the Raiders, hasn't signed yet.
I agree, RT. If this kick has what it takes, we need him!
Jones, Schaub's contract makes more sense now but it was only revealed today.
Also, you guys make it sound so simple about Veldheer. Just accept that Reggie screwed this one up. He has!
Johnny Football!
The thing I liked most about Manziel's Pro Day Workout was he wore a full uniform to show off his skills, while others just wore shorts, t-shirts, etc. I have not been a big fan of Manziel, and am still not sold on drafting him. But after today, I'd be ok with giving him a try if he's there at #5.
Here's what PFT reported on today with Dennis Allen in attendence:
"Allen, an A&M safety in the 1990s, attended Manziel’s Pro Day today and liked what he saw, telling the Houston Chronicle that Manziel’s arm strength is 'well above average.' But Allen acknowledged that there are some questions about Manziel off the field.
'The biggest thing you have to look at with Johnny, it’s really not as much what you see on the field, but all the other things surrounding him – the media attention, the ‘celebrity’ of Johnny Manziel,' Allen said. 'Those are all things, as he continues to mature, that he’ll be able to handle. And if he’s able to handle those things and keep them under control, he’s going to have a successful career.'”
Nate...he will if not done already.
LOL, NYR...when have I let you down? You keep trying to kick me in the nuts....like Lucy and Charlie with the football. Next time, just stop yourself.
Why do we have accept that Reggie screwed up? Veld had the Cardinal deal done the day it opened....doesn't sound like negotiation to me. Sounds like Veld is full of shit.
Reggie is the Raider, but you doinks back anything but a Raider....screw those who don't want to be a Raider....THOSE DAYS ARE GONE MY FRIEND...just look at Pryor....another ego who wants a big pay day.....good bye and don't come back.
JONES
Allen's quote on Manziel = we don't like drama.
JONES
Not sold on Johnny Football being productive from the pocket or the right fit for a team trying to get traction.
The Schaub restructured contract is very reasonable.
Time to get a few skill players for Schaub to count on. MJD would be a nice addition to the Raiders.
Only if McKenzie is totally sold that Manziel can be that guy....if not, don't do it. Size, attitude...Barry Switzer, lol. Hanging with Lebron and Co. Doesn't seem like Reggie's kind of guy, IMO.
JONES
Jones - FYI, the point that you made before which I disagreed was that the Raiders have no cap risk with Shaub.
You said: "Reggie re-did the contract so if Schaub fails, he will no longer be with the team next year with NO CAP HIT."
Unless McKenzie used magical dust on Schaubs contract, it would present a cap hit if Schaub is released.
No matter. Reggie did well to reduce Schaubs overall pay, which is all that can be expected. Arguably, he obtained the best available QB, which there were few options.
NFL Network had a segment on Manziel's pro day. He was spot on every throw, and may have set himself apart from the other top college QBs. With his arm strength and accuracy, he's probably worth the risk. That will be moot for the Raiders because Houston will likely take him #1.
Thank god we didn't franchise Veldheer. That would have been 12 million per year. Stupid contracts is how we got into this mess. Sure he was probably our best player, but he's not the best LT in the NFL - we can't pay him like he is.
PS
NYR cannot read....no wonder he doesn't know jack shit.....what does this say NYR?....
-----What this means is if after this season the Raiders wish to cut Schaub, they can do so with no dead money left behind = no cap hit.-----
JONES
Also NYR....you were crying about deferred money...told there was none....you asked me to prove it, I did and you squirm away like it never happened. TOLD YA SO, I know you love those, NYR.
JONES
Calico,
I'm not sold on Johnny Football being productive from the pocket under pressure. I'm not sold on his decision making abilities as a QB.
I think with his size, and his inertia to take bigger risks in trying to force a football into double and sometimes triple coverage in college; will equate to many INTs in the pro's.
Is he coachable? I don't know, he hasn't shown that he is so far. Can he handle the pressure of scrutiny? No, again he hasn't shown that so far, which is one reason why he's leaving A&M early.
I totally love his desire to win, and athleticism. Unless he sits and learns the QB position for a year or two in the NFL, I'm not sure he will pan out.
BTW, MJD and the Raiders have agreed to terms.
Despite Jackson's name having come up in connection with two gang-related murders involving Crips, Crosson said police have no hard evidence that Jackson is a member of the gang, which was formed in the late 1960’s and has an estimated 35,000 members across the country. Crosson said, however, the Jackson routinely flashes Crip gang signs in photos on social media -- and even on television during an NFL game.
"You don't want to see anybody throwing up gang signs like he did in the Redskins game last year," SAY NO TO DEASEAN JACKSON:
Crosson said. "Those were neighborhood Crip gang signs and he flashed them during a game. He may not be affiliated with the gang, but they don't [ordinarily] take kindly to those not in the gang throwing up those gang signs."
Last season, Jackson appeared to throw up the hand gesture in the face of Washington Redskins defensive back DeAngelo Hall after a reception in the Eagles' season-opener. Jackson also can be seen contorting his fingers to make a "C" -- another Crips sign -- in a music video he shot with former fellow Poly High student Snoop Dogg. Jackson flashed it yet again while wearing an Anaheim Angels hat on Instagram.
Then again, you have players/ Celebs flashing 666 sign all over the place. Lebron James, Kobe, JayZ, Beyoncé, Lady bla bla, RB for the Redskins when he scores a TD. You see them flashing hand signs on NFL Network too.
The NFL will tell you they are just making funny hand signs....there is plenty of meaning behind them.
Jackson is a problem waiting to explode...not Reggie's type, IMO.
JONES
Jones are you about to explode?
Yeah, explode with happiness, Reggie just signed 2 more pieces of the puzzle, Sims and Wilson. Beefing up the lines, getting good vet talent that are quality people.
In comes the new flux of youth and Reggie has this thing going in the right direction and he is doing it in incredible time......it's almost time for a I TOLD YOU SO post.....would raidertake put it on his cover page?
JONES
Busy day for the Raiders indeed! Loving the direction the team is going. Can't wait for the Draft, OTA, Training Camp, Pre-Season, and the Season.
How anyone could be complaining about any of this, or be discontent with the Raiders is beyond me.
They are just being cautious, Nate. I don't think they can really believe that Reggie is the REAL DEAL. With all the ESPN types bashing his every move, they actually believe their TV's.
BUT, if you know what you are seeing, you are seeing a man take over a franchise and give it the direction it has lacked for so long. I thank Reggie for taking the job.....keep on rockin Raiders.
JONES
Jones you are just foolish enough to have an I told you post before they have played a game. You obviously dont measure progress by W or L
just like you demanding a prediction when the roster isn't even set? One rule for you.....your arrogance and wishy washy bullshit isn't attractive, just to let you know.
Reggie is getting it done and you hate it because your patriots are on the way down....I TOLD YOU THIS WAS COMING......BITE ME.
JONES
Don't look now but the Raiders are adding solid players to both sets of lines.
When the dust settles on the offseason and the roster is finalized, it will be interesting to see the depth and mix to the team.
To date,
Defense:
DE Justin Tuck
LB LaMarr Woodley
CB Tarrel Brown
DL Antonio Smith
DT CJ Wilson
S Charles Woodson (re-signed0
DT Pat Sims (re-signed)
Offense:
RT Austin Howard
WR James Jones
OL Kevin Boothe
LT Donald Penn
QB Matt Schaub
RB MJD
RB Darren McFadden (re-signed)
Damn, Reggie....not getting anything done.
No one wanted to come to Oakland...this is year 1, once stability is more established and wins show up and word continues to spread that Oakland is a place to be....LOOK THE FUCK OUT...patriots are going down and so is the rest of the AFC West....
Raiders are coming back....the pulse is getting stronger by the week. This team is mirroring my recovery....makes it all the more sweet.
Ano clown and all his dinosaur media types are going the way of the doh doh bird HOMER. They think it is their hate that has kept the Raiders down.....they are in for a very rude awakening. Look out NFL, here come the OAKLAND RAIDERS.
JONES
SCAR
And the free-agent signings keep on coming....
Apparently, A little bit of patience is all that would have been required by Raiderfans who wanted RM to walk the plank 48 hours after the start of free agency...I would imagine a majority of these same people are now attempting to remove thier foot from their mouth..
I came out early after Shaub signed and said "no bueno." At this time, with the restructured deal, and gettting more info,,,This is a low risk/high reward move. Well done RM.
Going into free agency, I honestly didn't think the Raiders organization was going to pull off this many moves. We all march to the beat of our own drum, but I'm impressed. To me,the moves made so far have already led to a makeover and is an upgrade from last year...
Ultimately wins and losses at the end of the season will determine success or failure for the GM, coaching staff, and roster. But so far the effort, the commitment is where it needs to be...
CJ Wilson: The Pinetown, N.C., native was also sold on the Raiders organization after speaking with Head Coach Dennis Allen, defensive coordinator Jason Tarver and linebackers coach Bob Sanders. “I got to meet some of the coaches, head coach and D-coordinator and linebackers coach, and they all…you can see why this is a great organization,” said Wilson. “A [few] more pieces to the puzzle and we can have a great team. When you have great coaches, meeting them that fast, learning the system, some of the things they taught me already, I’m like, ‘I’m ready to go!’ I want to put my pads on already.”
Calico--people keep forgetting about Kory Sheets. He tore it up in the Canadian league. If he can transition that to the NFL, we will have some nice choices at RB, not counting what may fall to us in the draft. It should not be forgotten that RM extended Reece's contract in the off-season. Obviously, Reece IS the type of player RM and DA want to keep. They only want to keep solid players like Veldheer and Houston if the price fits into their overall cost structure.
Reese is a top talent who wants to be here to see the team succeed, like C. Wood. All-in-all, a very solid FA season. Now it's time for DA and staff to make it happen on the field. If the coaching staff can't get it done, it will be very hard to justify continuing with DA. However, I believe Allen and company are up to the task.
And don't forget that many Raider fans said that the team suddenly got old -- couldn't be further from the truth when you analze the make-up of the roster. The Raiders had one of the youngest rosters in the league last year.
Now we are adding vets to the mix which adds leadership, quality, depth, competition, knowledge, and character to the overall team culture.
Ask any GM about building a roster and the answer is to add the right mix using free agency, the draft, player development. To discount the importance in the development of the younger players in years 2-4 is forgetting a crucial piece in a team's progress.
We are in phase 1 which is free agency. Phase 2 will be to add long term pieces thru the draft. Phase 3 is training camp where player development and chemistry and work habits are established.
It isn't one or the other, young or older, short term or long term but a mix that makes up a complex ever evolving 53 man roster.
I applaud Reggie's efforts but there is plenty more to come. The rush to judgment, one way or the other is foolish in my book. On Sept. 1st, let's revisit the roster overhaul evaluation.
There seems to be some very positive momentum building and I hope it continues!
Can't deny that the Org is going in a very positive direction....that to me is as much to cheer about as anything......winning games is the ultimate goal, but the process of getting there is being taken care of and that is what is so exciting...if you can't get excited about it....must have ice in those veins.
When the right things are being done to set up wins, wins will come. When the wins come....NOW YOU GOTTEM....we are on the verge of the new Raiders....1st 2 years didn't count, this is the new Raiders and I look forward to watching them this year. I'm in....if you ain't on the edge....you are wasting space.....get out of the way.
JONES
Glad to see the Raiders re-signed Pat Sims. McKenzie has added many pieces and built depth on both sides of the ball that previously didn't exist. He is definitely making this off-season interesting.
Can't wait for the draft.
CJ Wilson eight tackles last year. Korey Sheets CFL, MJD complete toast Jacksonville does not want him. Seriously guys?
Pat Sims coming back is good.
McKenzie is smart to stack the D line and let Allen select the best rotational players from a pool of talent. I hope they draft DT Aaron Donald in Rd 2 but Donald probably won't be available that deep in the draft.
I am a little discouraged by McKenzie retaining McFadden and signing MJD. Both these guys have fallen off (McFadden really never gained his stride). Also, RBs have a short shelf life, and decent ones are a dime a dozen.
Sheets could end up being a solid back for us. I liked that signing better than bringing back McFadden. Jennings was the Raiders best option...
Ano idiot....DEPTH, CHARACTER, CORE...any of these things mean anything to you? You need depth, not everyone is a ALL PRO. Where the Raiders were, so many holes, so much cash to spend.....Reggie has done a good job and he isn't done. Like many are saying....if you can't get behind this.....you must be a patriots fan....right ANOCLOWN?
JONES
time for a new take, Take!
PS
where are the young players? There is not one person on this blog who had ever heard of CJ Wilson before yesterday but now you think that is quality depth that sound ridculous
Jones you will be laughed at until you show the balls to say how many wins Reggie needs this year to be kept around. Why are you scared to pick a number?
Ano,
Sometimes players are signed at positions where depth and rotation is required. This is the case with DLineman. A guy like CJ Wilson can add that to the team.
As far as McFadden goes, I think the 1 year, low cost, low risk deal was worth it. McFadden will be highly motivated (for future contracts) and playing to prove his worth -- now whether he can be productive and stay on the field is to be determined.
CJ
Totally agree with you on McFadden. I am glad they are not giving up on a player that age with that type of speed especially at that price. I am cool with that and Pat Sims. I was hoping there would be a few more young FA signed to serve as building blocks for two or three years down the road.
A sprinkling of vets is good but what about a Verner, Byrd or Michael Johnson it would have been nice to add a couple of solid studs under the age of 28
You DRAFT YOUR BUILDING BLOCKS...FA is to bolster the building blocks. Reggie had no building blocks....he has to DRAFT THEM. I know that is a little hard for such an idiot to understand, but for the love of pete, would you take your head out of your ass and understand, for once?
JONES
oh, I'm so scared, anotroll. you seem to have a hard time reading words...already answered more than once. You may laugh at me....all this time, I will PITY you. You are a pathetic whatever, nothing better to do than rag a Raider site with the same old bullshit as ESPN....you sure are an original? Anotroll, thinks he rules the 'net because he can play games with people. Pity his REAL life, must be hell.
JONES
I have always been a huge fan of Jared Allen. I really wish RM could have signed him. Can't believe he picked the Bears b/c better fit and Jay Cutler. Jay Cutler has never won shit. Not at Vandy, Denver, or Chicago. Doubt RM will sign D Jackson. He does not fit. But if he does...look out. and add K Mack round 1.
Don't forget about L Murray out of UCF. Big and Fast. J Stewart has got better. MJD and DMAC as pass catchers. I am getting pumped. Go Raiders!
"You DRAFT YOUR BUILDING BLOCKS...FA is to bolster the building blocks. Reggie had no building blocks....he has to DRAFT THEM. I know that is a little hard for such an idiot to understand, but for the love of pete, would you take your head out of your ass and understand, for once?"
I understand butReggie hasn't drafted any building blocks in two drafts. That is kind of the issue.....
If they land DJax, that will get me hyped a bit. He would be a true playmaker and would help Schaub be successful. Time will tell on how this FA off season works out.
The first draft that RM was a part of, he did not have a pick until the 3rd Round. He picked Bergstrom, who has not played all that much in 2 years, but usually players in the 3rd Round and below don't. They spend that time learning.
Latavius Murray is a beast. Hopefully, he will remain healthy. He could end up being a Tyrone Wheatley type RB.
They need to involve Reece more. I've said it before, and I will say it again. It is not hard to get him involved if you use him in different positions. Tight End, short down Back, Screen Option Back, Fullback, even slot WR. Dude is talented, and we need to get him involved.
With all of these RBs, you definitely get the feel that the Raiders are going to pound the ground first to establish the pass. Speed and Power! Kory Sheets is the unknown here, and that is to our advantage. I hope his play will translate well here. The majority of CFL players who came to the NFL have been extremely successful, especially in recent history.
I'm not sure about DeSean Jackson. Incredible talent, and would fill the #1 WR nicely. I'd take him, only if the character issues start disappearing. I understand his scenario really well, growing up in Norwalk, CA. But the false reality that he lives is that he doesn't need the gang life; regardless of their "promise" not to harm him because of his talent. Cut the ties, DeSean; while you still can.
JUST PROVE IT, BABY!
Jones you answered with a number of wins for Reggie to keep his job? What is the number
Anotroll....wait to see this year how Hayden and Watson play. Saying they are not cornerstone players at this point is as dumb as asking for predictions when the roster isn't even set. But what else should we expect from the ANOTROLL?
JONES
Jones, nice ducking of the question. I am not asking you for a prediction, I am asking what is the minimum number of wins the Raiders need this year for you to consider Reggie worthy of a fourth year. At some point I assume you will start to measure progress in W and Ls? Or does that not have any bearing in the delusional world you live in?
"Anotroll....wait to see this year how Hayden and Watson play. Saying they are not cornerstone players at this point is as dumb as asking for predictions when the roster isn't even set. But what else should we expect from the ANOTROLL?"
And suggesting that they are cornerstone players at this point is even dumber. But what else should we expect from you.
Bryan
Out of necessity, fear for his job, money burning a hole in his pocket, or whatever reason(s) you want to include, I think McKenzie is building a roster he can win with now. IMO, the pressure has shifted more to Dennis Allen and his coaches. These guys have no excuses left.
However, it remains critical that McKenzie continue to add building blocks for the future. That means he can't afford to miss with the #5 pick in the draft, and he needs high rate of success in the rounds that follow.
McKenzie is on the clock!
Anotroll....why don't you just FUCK OFF.....quoted from Guns n Roses SO FUCKIN EASY.
other/same anotroll bryan....did I say they were definite cornerstones? I said give them a chance, to early to write them off....what are you, a dummy?
JONES
The ano's are trying to bully me...booo hoooo...hey fucknuts, if you want to learn about the game you pretend to know because you watch ESPN.....stop writing and just read....you learn so much more when you stop ACTING like you something you aren't.
Another lesson for the idiots....no charge....Karma will pay me.
JONES
"McKenzie is on the clock!"
What an idiot, lol. Reggie was on the clock a long time ago...why are you so behind the times? Do you live in a place where the info is held back for a few weeks? Why do you know so little about this team?
JONES
ny,
I agree with ya.
I don't think the Raiders have to win a certain number of games for McKenzie to keep his job for a 4th year.
I think the Raiders have win 8+ games for the coaching staff to keep their jobs though. The pressure isn't on McKenzie, it is on DA and his staff.
JUST PROVE IT, BABY!
Also, Carlos Rogers is in town today from across the Bay, taking a "looksie" with the Raiders.
McKenzie ain't foolin around.
"What an idiot, lol. Reggie was on the clock a long time ago..."
LOL! Jones, you're the idiot!
"on the clock" was a draft reference.
Hmm, didn't you threaten to stop reading my posts years ago? How can we get that implemented?
I used it already, fucknut. After the Super Bowl, Reggie was on the clock you stupid MF'r
JONES
Can you smell it in the air? I smell a big signing...Rogers isn't bad, but the next one is big, IMO.
JONES
No DeSean in Oakland, he signs with the Deadskins.
What I don't get, what is it about Reggie that makes him failing at landing every elite free agent out there, including his own guys?
DeSean and Jared Allen were supposedly raider fans growing up as well. Money obviously was not in question look at how relativity cheap!!
What you say to that jackass JONESing?
Now that Free Agency has died out, here is my new and improved Top 5 Draft picks. Agree or disagree if you like, it's just my opinion.
1. Texans - Jadaveon Clowney
2. Rams - Greg Robinson
3. Jaguars - Johnny Manziel
4. Browns - Teddy Bridgewater
5. Raiders - Jake Matthews or Sammy Watkins
I'm still unsure about this pick with the Raiders. We fans only have one example of a 1st Round pick with Reggie and DA, and they went off the chart for Hayden (who could have been taken later in the round).
They may surprise us and trade down and pick up someone unexpected. I really hope not, though. I think this pick depends on what McKenzie drafts for a need vs. athletic ability. If he is going to go for the most athletic, then it's Watkins for sure, and he fits both need and athleticism. We need a solid WR, and that could be Watkins.
If he sees the O-line still needs depth, then it will be Jake Matthews, regardless if Watkins is there or not (he did not have a great Pro Day). Matthews would bring balance to the age of the O-line, and I think he would be an impact starter.
If they pick Matthews, there is always the possibility that Brandin Cook (WR, Oregon St) will be available in the early 2nd Round. If they don't go with a WR in the 2nd Round, then they will pick Jackson Jeffcoat (DE, Texas). Either way, that leaves David Fales (QB, San Jose State) in the 3rd. I believe this is the most likely scenario of how the Raiders will draft the first 3 rounds (OL, WR, QB). If this happens, and these players are picked by the Raiders; I will be happy, and call that a successful draft.
If the Raiders get Watkins with the #5, then I think the 2nd and 3rd Round plays out this way. In the 2nd Round, the Raiders pick Jackson Jeffcoat (DE, Texas) or Derek Carr (QB, Fresno St). If they pick Jeffcoat, then they pick Fales in the 3rd.
If they pick Carr in the 2nd, then they go with Cyril Richardson (OG, Baylor) in the 3rd and pick up someone like Demarcus Lawrence (DE, Boise St), Dee Ford (DE, Auburn), or Cassius Marsh (DE, UCLA) in the later rounds.
If this scenario happens, I will be just as happy as with the scenario I think will happen.
anon,
McKenzie did not go with Jackson because the LAPD confirmed that he has ties with the Crips with both the Raiders and 49ers, and both teams smartly stayed away.
I actually applaud him for not chasing him down. I think the guy would end up being more trouble than what he's worth.
I think he also stayed away because of the potential of drafting Watkins (see my previous post)
What do I say anoclown? Why don't you just ......
it isn't Reggie's fault that Jackson went to Skins. Isn't Reggie's fault that Allen went to the Bears....these players can make choices and who knows what is behind the choices.
Reggie wants to draft his own elites that don't have baggage, I guess.
The Back ground checks would have been fun to look at.....wonder why he only got 7 mill a year? And to the Skins who love to throw money like fools.
Fuck Jackson, it will probably work out for the better that he didn't sign. Reggie still has plenty of cap room for more character and depth players. DRAFT, is where Reggie really wants to score.
JONES
"Reggie wants to draft his own elites that don't have baggage, I guess."
"Reggie still has plenty of cap room for more character and depth players. DRAFT, is where Reggie really wants to score."
Draft his own elite, really wants to score on, hmmmmmmmm interesting considering his draft choices as of late?? I guess??? You were harping all along for everyone to wait until he hits with free agency and starts making big moves with the BIG bucks he has/had to play with. But now he has whiffed on not landing one young major impact player. You sound resigned on the fact with your "room for more character and depth players" hah sounds like a fucken cop out to me!?!? LOL your a fool like him u cant spot real super star talent!!! I guess??? What a dumbass you are as well!! I guess u a dummy too JONESing LMAO
I smell pantywaste, what a stench......Reggie did just fine in free agency, now he will draft more of the future core. Reggie already told ya he wasn't going for the big splash, he probably found something on Djac and backed away. He backed away from Saffold....if it isn't right, he won't do it and that is sound management, something you have little clue of.
Reggie didn't whiff, he built an experienced, super bowl winning core, then bring in the young guns....so once again, waste, it is you who is the DUMMY because you are an old man and you still don't know a fucking thing. Go back to telling your boring life stories....I have proven time and again that I know more than you will ever know about the game and the Raiders......toooot tooooot....little foggy for ya, Jethro?
JONES
When I look at the players acquired and re-signed, I see an improved roster, added depth, and guys who will contribute to winning more games.
Defense:
DE Justin Tuck
LB LaMarr Woodley
CB Tarrel Brown
DL Antonio Smith
DT CJ Wilson
S Charles Woodson (re-signed0
DT Pat Sims (re-signed)
CB Carlos Rogers
Offense:
OG/RT Austin Howard
WR James Jones
OL Kevin Boothe
LT Donald Penn
QB Matt Schaub
RB MJD
RB Darren McFadden (re-signed)
I expect us to sign additional veterans, selectively scour the waiver wire, and add future cogs in the draft. I also anticipate some of the younger players in years 2-4 to continue to improve.
I will await for the dust to settle on the final 53 man roster before making any hasty conclusions.
Some notable position upgrades, and at least one or two downgrades. Not exactly a youth movement. If these are stop gap players (as age and short-term contracts suggest some are), we may be several years away from having a sustainable core of players.
Meanwhile, the process undertaken has a bit of desperation attached to it. If McKenzie intends to build through the draft, he has a long ways to go.
I think a better perspective would see the entire Roster:
QB - Schaub, McGloin, Pryor (soon to be released/traded), Edwards
RB - MJD, McFadden, Sheets, L. Murray, Stewart, Reece, Olawale
WR - Jones, Moore, Streater, Jenkins, Holmes, Green, Butler, Criner
TE - Ausberry, Leonhardt, Kasa, Rivera
OL - Shaw, Wisenewski,Boothe, Mady, Nix, Cornell, Bergstrom, Howard, McCants, Barnes, Penn, and Watson
Defense:
DE/D-Line - Tuck, Crawford, Wilson, A. Smith, Robinson, McCoy
DT - Sims, Troup, McGee, Lumpkin, and Carter
LB - Burris, Burnett, Burnett, Beltre (rookie), Maiava, Sio Moore, Nick Roach, Woodley (who could also be a DE), Marshall McFadden, McCoy, Harper, and Cole
CB - Tarrell Brown, Carlos Rogers, Mike Jenkins, Hayden, P. Adams, J. Adams, Casey, T. Jones, Chekwa, and Thorpe.
S - C Wood, B Ross, Branch, Young, Dye, and Johnson
Special Teams
K - Jano
P - King
LS - Condo
That is a pretty good balance of Vets vs. Young players. With additions made in the draft, we will see more impact. WR, DT, DE, OL, and QB should be our focus in the draft. The question is with what pick to draft these positions in? It's clear to me that the weakest link on the D-Line is currently DT. We did not really beef up this position in Free Agency. With that said, Tuck and Antonio Smith have been known to line up as DE and DT. They are kinda hybrid.
Looking at the O-line, I'm not sure that there is as big a need there anymore. I say that because not much is known about the play of Bergstrom. He hasn't played much, except his rookie year he played a little; but since then, he has been learning the position from coaches and players. The Raiders have treated him like a rookie QB. See how he does in live action; now give him a clipboard and videos and let him soak it all in and then watch him lead. Bergstrom is the wildcard here. Raw talent that is being groomed. The same could be said for Watson.
Looking at the current roster, we have a much more competitive team with depth at each position to compete. I cannot wait to see what it will look like after the draft.
JUST PROVE IT, BABY!
wow. jt the brick chimes in on raider take? cool!
Here's a thorough overview of McKenzie's work thus far.
http://tinyurl.com/qhpcnj2
nyraider said... LOL
I would think restructuring Schaub's contract would have been more valuable to the Raiders if negotiated prior to the trade. As is, all that appears to have been accomplished is deferring salary, which could create dead money in future years if the Raiders give Schaub the Matt Flynn heave ho!
Meanwhile, Raiders have ample cap room to absorb Schaub's contract salary this year.
just watched NFL network.....they discussed who were the winners in FA....Skins was their choice...then one guy mentioned the LA Raiders and said they did ok. bunch of assholes.
JONES
Raiders were clearly above average in terms of FA activity, as they once again have to change over almost the entire roster.
IMO, they made several good and bad decisions this free agent period; so I tend to agree with an "ok" rating as being a cumulative effect of that.
Well I'm so glad you agree with the assholes, NYR. Just shows you are lock and step with the media.
Thois one is to ANOCLOWN who claimed Reggie whiffed on DJac....just like I told you, Reggie heard some news he didn't like and walked away. You fuckers keep acting like you are the authorities on this team when in fact you aren't even close. Sit down, STFU and you MIGHT learn something.
JONES
NYR, what were the several bad decisions?
JONES
Ok, Jones. I’ll bite.
I didn't like that the Raiders were unable to secure Veldheer, with literally months to do so. He is the closest the Raiders have come to a franchise LT in a decade... as elusive as a franchise QB.
The second bad decision was that they didn’t franchise tag Veldheer, which most folks expected and would have given the Raiders extra time to negotiate a long-term deal. Tag money was not an issue for the Raiders... who may end up being penalized per CBA for not spending enough!
Saffold was obviously a mistake. The Raiders were forced to aggressively go after Saffold when they realized they were at risk of losing Veldheer.
You can say Reggie didn’t know about Saffold’s injury, but being forced to focus on acquiring another LT likely caused the Raiders undue distraction during the most critical period of free agency, when they could have been pursing other top free agents... Eric Decker comes to mind.
Also, what kills me is that they were willing to pay Saffold $42.5M over 5 years, but reportedly only offered Veldheer $25M.
That leads to another series of bad decisions. Why offer outside free agents market value, or sometimes over market value, but low-ball your own coveted free agents?
That’s disingenuous and most likely explains why Veldheer, Houston and Jennings all signed elsewhere.
I can also name several things I like about what McKenzie has done but that wouldn’t be any fun for you.
Can't even finish reading such bullshit...NYR, it doesn't matter if you like it or not, it does not mean it was a bad decision. Your arrogance shows that you think you know more than Reggie without 1/1000th of the info he has to make these decisions. So blah blah blah about what you don't like, with your track record of being wrong....I like it.
You could name plenty of things that Reggie has done well, but you love to beat on the Veld/Houston horse and for probably the rest of the year even if those players do squat.....right nelly?
Veld didn't want to be in Oakland, he signed the 1st day of FA and was even rumored before that that he wanted to go there. Houston is an Avg DE and is not worth that contract. Jennings got 4 years, no way Reggie does that.
All your whining and bitching about guys who never won anything and no props for bringing in super bowl players with great character? IDIOT.
JONES
Mike Florio on April 1, 2014, 10:34 AM EDT
McKenzie
The Raiders are in “win now” mode. They’ve got the cap space. So why aren’t they at the front of the line for receiver DeSean Jackson?
As one league source explained it to PFT, G.M. Reggie McKenzie is leery about Jackson. Not because of the trumped-up gang ties (the more we read the supposedly groundbreaking NJ.com article about suspected gang ties, the less hard news we actually see in it), but because of Jackson’s reputation as a me-first player who can’t be controlled.
While the Raiders have been buying up plenty of veteran free agents, most are regarded as good teammates who’ll provide positive influences to the locker room. That’s not the reputation Jackson enjoys.
While Raiders quarterback Matt Schaub has made a public pitch for Jackson, one of the concerns is that Schaub has never had to control a potentially difficult receiver. Andre Johnson, Schaub’s long-time No. 1 target in Houston, is the anti-diva — a team-first guy who has never created many issues in Houston.
Of course, it may not ultimately be McKenzie’s call. If owner Mark Davis, who has been prodded by defensive back Charles Woodson to do what his father would have done with a talent like Jackson available for no compensation, decides he wants DeSean, it won’t matter if McKenzie is leery.
Jones -
Lol, talk about blah blah blah! You ask the question but you can’t handle the truth.
Veldheer immediately denied McKenzie’s claim that he didn’t want to be in Oakland.
That’s such BS anyway. Who cares?! It’s not kindergarten. They’re not picking teams for dodge ball. It’s a business and Veldheer is a pro. He probably expected to be tagged and would have gladly played for the Raiders, and perhaps negotiated a long-term deal.
As it turns out, McKenzie consciously downgraded the position.
Veldheer made a smart business decision and signed fair market value contract ($10M more than the Raiders reportedly offered and $7.5M less than McKenzie’s signed Saffold).
Don’t ask the question if you don’t want to hear the answer.
Btw, if the anon post above is an attempt to compare Veldheer to De Sean Jackson in terms of character, it’s sorely misplaced.
It's not that I don't want to hear an answer, I just don't want to hear an answer full of bullshit. You back Veld like he is the angel and Reggie as the fuck up....tell you what, if you are so disappointed, why don't you follow your lover to Arizona? You can join his Mom on twitter and cry for her little baby too.
While your at it, just keep telling the world that Lamarr Houston is worth an elite contract. And, don't forget to wipe your tears for a second string RB who wanted a 4 year deal.
They are gone, deal with it, stop beating the horse that was dead long ago. We get it, you just want to harp on what you/ESPN consider mistakes. No props for all he has done to get this team on the right track....face it, you are just another troll.
JONES
As far as the article, where does it even mention Veld? Dude, you are so lost....and yet you play the role of an authority on the team....what a fucking joke....give it up, you don't know shit and you never have, you don't even like the team. All you do is bitch about shit that happened how long ago? And no props for a good job? Tell you what....why don't you just.......go root for Vick in NY, I'm sure you think that was a great signing because ESPN said so, huh?
JONES
NY,
I certainly see your point about losing Veld, but I don't think he wanted to stay. I think he put on a show for the fan base.
I feel this way because of his comments about Palmer, and how he and Palmer kept in touch with one another after Palmer requested to be traded.
As far as the Raiders' offer goes, they had nothing else to go from. What was he worth on the market with other teams? That's what Veld wanted to know as well. Reggie said in an interview he expected Veld to come back and chat, based on conversations leading up to FA, and he didn't. You can read that interview on Inside Bay Area archives.
Is it a big loss? Sure. Is it the end of the world? No. I think we can upgrade at LT in the Draft with Jake Matthews. I feel the Rams may take Matthews, or trade out of the #2. So it may not even be an issue. I'm feeling more and more we will select Watkins. If for some reason the Rams select Watkins, then Matthews will fall to #5, and the Raiders will get him. Either way, it's a win-win for the Raiders.
I feel that Reggie has made some much needed positive moves for us, and the Raiders are finally in position to turn things around. But as I've said before, it's time to prove it. Especially in the face of the toughest schedule in the NFL this coming season.
JUST PROVE IT, BABY!
I like Matthews too, and he could eventually be an upgrade over Veldheer at LT, but I think the Raiders are committed to using Penn (with Watson and Barnes as backups). I would rather see them take a guy like Watkins at #5.
It's possible Veldheer wanted to leave (although he said that's not true) but for McKenzie to acquiesce on that basis alone sounds way too far fetched. It begs the question; are the Raiders running a charity or are they running a business?
That is the hard part of this whole thing. Was Reggie acting on trust with Veldheer? Or is he being dishonest about wanting Veldheer? If it was trust, we cannot fault him for that, because most GMs in this league should be able to trust their FA players in the process of wanting to re-sign them. I think the only blame Reggie has here is the level of miscommunication. Either on his part, or Veldheer's part.
I don't think there was any doubt (on either side) that Veldheer wanted to see what the market was for him. Where the miscommunication came is what happened. Reggie was under the impression that Veldheer would table those offers and give the Raiders a chance to match. According to Reggie, that never happened; and because of that, his fault is not making sure it was clearly communicated that is what the Raiders wanted.
Again, in my opinion, Veldheer on one hand spoke about wanting to remain with the Raiders, and then in the next sentence spoke about how he and Carson remained in contact with each other and how Carson swayed his decision to go to Arizona. I don't hear that kind of double speak from Reggie. The bottom line, both sides have blame on that, but I think the majority lies on Veldheer's side.
With that said, who the Raiders pick at #5 is dependent on who the Rams pick at #2. If they pick Watkins, Raiders will get Matthews. If they pick Matthews, Raiders will get Watkins.
The dilemma will be if the Rams trade out, and whoever gets #2 picks a QB, and Watkins and Matthews are still on the board at #5. If that happens, I say the Raiders should go top talent which would be to select Watkins.
We will see what happens soon. I'm excited about the opportunities the Raiders have, and the position Reggie has put them in. I think the Raiders will (and should be) one of the surprise teams this year. We were in every game last year with the exception of 2; and I think they've solidified their issues, and Reggie has built a roster to win. There are a few holes, but I think they'll be addressed in the draft.
JUST PROVE IT, BABY!
I agree about miscommunication. I also think it was incumbent upon Reggie to make sure that didn't happen. One way was to tag Veldheer. Doesn't matter if Veldheer asked not to be tagged. That's not how things work in business.
It's over, and I know I have beaten this thing a bit hard.
If McKenzie lands one of my top draft choices, I will be singing a different tune real fast.
If both Watkins and Matthews are available at #5, it would make even more sense to trade down a few slot, get an extra pick, and still be able to get Watkins or Matthews. There might a team trying to secure a QB at #5 so there could be a willing trade partner. Personally, if we stick with our #5 pick, I would lean towards Matthews.
Headline from PFT:
"Cardinals were “shocked” Raiders didn’t franchise Jared Veldheer
http://tinyurl.com/kb7xfw7
"“He’s tough. His size. He’s a guy you watch on film, he very seldom gets beat,” Goodwin said. “Every tackle at some point is going to get beat, but the thing you like about him is the next time, he’s going to try to beat that guy to a pulp. He’s not going to let that happen again."
"Arizona fans should be thankful to the Raiders, for allowing a franchise left tackle to walk away."
Duh!
Raiders may not get Watkins as reports are flaring that the Lions are willing to trade up to #2 to get him. My question, who and what are they willing to trade? Suh?
This year's draft is going to be interesting.
NYR = troll
NY, I read that article this morning too. They built him up an awful lot. "he very seldom gets beat". That depended on the teams he played against. He took a beating from tougher defenses; and he'll have his share of lumps against the 49ers and Seahawks; if he isn't injured.
I'm not trying to be negative, Veld was an average Tackle; but he is not elite. It will be interesting to see how he fares in Arizona though.
R-Nate, I think that was a fair assessment. Watching the games, how many times did Veldheer get beat twice by the same defender? And remember the talk when Veldheer came out of college that he never gave up a sack? Sure small school but that practically carried over in his rookie year, which was above average by rookie LT standards. Then he filled in admirably at center... not many 6'8" OL-men can play center.
Needless to say, he is far better than Robert Gallery, whom the Raiders had much time and money invested, and he’s also a lot better than the long line of LTs the Raiders signed over the past 10+ years, like Kwame Harris and other one-and-done LTs.
Headline from PTF:
"Bridgewater struggling in private workouts"
This kid had a tough pro day too.
Lots of risk taking a QB at #5, but there is depth in the draft. Hopefully, McKenzie will find a QB diamond in the rough during later rounds, and he makes our first pick an immediate impact (Watkins or Robinson).
So far, attempts at QB have mostly failed; Flynn, Lienart, Wilson... and Pryor
This comment has been removed by the author.
NY,
Are you suggesting that McKenzie brought in Lienart and Pryor? I hope not, that was Hue and Cable who brought in Lienart, and Al Davis drafted Pryor (the last athlete drafted by Davis).
Regarding Veld, I'm not saying it wasn't a fair assessment or that he's comparable to Gallery. He had his share of getting beat multiple times here in Oakland. But it was uncommon for him to face the same guy twice in the same season and be manhandled.
I'd say he was comparable to Don Mosebar, Lincoln Kennedy, or Langston Walker (all who were above average/average Tackles); but he's not a Hall of Fame caliber OT like the article made him out to be. I thought they were a little over the top.
Is he a good athlete at his position? Yes. Is he great/elite at his position? No.
Nate - McKenzie signed Matt Leinart who, if I remember correctly, had worked under Greg Knapp the year before.
You are splitting hairs with this Veldheer thing. Personally, I'd settle for Don Mosebar, Lincoln Kennedy and Langston Walker. Time will tell how big a mistake it was to let Veldheer go. He was very affordable!
Media now reporting that the the Raiders may have made a mistake in the contract language for Austin Howard, allowing his contract to pro rate as dead money if he is released (dead money can't be applied to the 95% salary cap the Raiders must spend the this year and next - which explains the pattern of contract structuring since Howard was signed).
Also, apparently, Howard was signed for $6 million to play guard (with Watson the projected RT).
If a RG is worth $6M, surely they could have afforded to pay $7 million to retain a quality LT.
What's your source on that NY, I'm not finding the story, would like to read it.
I'm excited about the draft, I think it is more likely that we will draft Watkins if he is still on the board. If not, then I think we trade down for another WR (Marquis Lee or Mike Evans).
A QB in the 2nd or 3rd Round, depending on who they like better, Derek Carr or David Fales. We will see what happens in 21/22 days.
JUST PROVE IT, BABY!
LOL, NYR is the bad news bear. The contract with Howard only becomes a problem if he is released. Once again, Veld didn't want to be in Oakland, get over it. Rest of the Nation has....you cry over mediocre and then cry about wording in a contract? TROLL = NYR.
JONES
Nate, it was the Raiders Wednesday Morning “one-liner” link from PFT.
Sorry, Jones. Your explanation is nonsense. Why does it even matter? Veldheer is a pro and would have been fine. You are foolish. But keep stomping your feet and slinging names. It definitely suits you. Cheers!
Hey dope, if you KNEW ANYTHING about the OAKLAND RAIDERS......you would know that Reggie has stated more than once....if you don't want to be in Oakland, you won't. Veld didn't want to be in Oakland, he isn't....foolish is someone who ACTS like they know, but in REALITY, has no clue = NYR. You have been pancaked so many times and you still act like you have it over on me....again, that is foolish.
JONES
Look who’s calling the kettle black. Jones, you can continue with your kindergarten mentality; that's not the way the NFL works.
It's a business. Players don't follow their heart. They follow the money. How naive can you be?
Look how Alex Mack had both feet out the door in Cleveland, and now he's thrilled to be back.
If what you say is true, you should be more concerned why players with intimate knowledge of the Raiders organization were flocking to the door at the start of free agency. If it's not money, why?
Didn't you ever watch the Godfather? It's not personal; it's only business.
Veldhheer was the only FA Mckenzie really needed to keep.
So the more rational explanation is that McKenzie is covering his tracks for low-balling Veldheer, then not tagging him and allowing him to get away.
But you go ahead and pick your teams for dodge ball if that's what makes your fantasy work for you.
Class dismissed!
Veld followed the money right out of Oakland on the 1st day of FA. Then he says the Raiders didn't try....then his Mom complains all over Twitter, called Reggie a liar...real class.
All those players flocking to the door, LOL... the only one Reggie admits to wanting to keep, was Veld....the rest were to be upgraded. Fuck NYR, you have to be the dumbest son of a bitch I have ever talked football with. Fucking clueless.
If Veld really wanted to be a Raider, he would of tried to be a Raider. He would have negotiated with Reggie, he didn't, he signed the 1st day....he's been replaced by a vet with something to prove....keep crying, sunshine. Again, you have been pancaked and you act like the bully with blood all over his face....it's funny.
JONES
Nate - Here it is:
http://tinyurl.com/mwf98hl
Levi Damien reports the Raiders project Howard to play RG. As Damien suggests, $6M is premium pay for a guard.
I guess Jones will tell us that Howard really! really! wanted to be a Raider; so McKenzie paid him extra.
Jones, you just make up sh*t as you go. Now it has something to do with his mom on twitter? Really?
The whole process by which McKenzie had several months to re-sign his best player, but coudln't is highly suspect. And the way he was appartently low-balled sounds is disingenuous at best.
At what point do professional negotiators wait by the phone for counteroffers that never come?
If the Raiders had offered Veldheer a market rate, he'd still be a Raider. If McKenzie had tagged him, he'd still be a Raider.
It's ONLY business! Why can't get that?
His Mom on twitter shows low class and his brother the agent didn't help matters I am sure. Reggie maybe didn't want him, ever thought of that? You make it sound like it's a huge mistake...time will tell. Veld maybe felt he wasn't the focus of the offseason for Reggie and listened to Palmer that he was wanted in Arizona. If you think these players are just going for the money....like I said, NYR, you are one of the stupidest shits ever to write about football.
He's gone, get over it, stop crying, it didn't work out, it happens....just see what happens without him. The team was not very good with him, maybe they are better without him. Once again, Reggie clearly states he will not Tag anyone just to keep them....WHY CAN'T GET THAT?
JONES
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