The "New" Raiders Narrative
Remember the national media narrative on the Raiders after Al Davis passed away and his son gave the football reins to new general manager Reggie McKenzie?
Let me remind you. The narrative was all about chasing the ghost of Al Davis out of the organization. Remember the Sports Illustrated piece, the one about how Reggie was modernizing the Raiders, upgrading the practice field, building a true scouting department and getting rid of the overhead projectors? Finally, what everyone was asking for (including myself) had happened: The owner had hired a general manager, let the general manager hire a coach, and got out of the way so that they could get to work.
Well, lo and behold, we suddenly have a brand new narrative, and it's this: Dennis Allen and Reggie McKenzie aren't really to blame for this mess, and they're still (or in DA's case, were) being held back by the ghost of Al Davis.
The new narrative has been on full display this week, and I heard it loud and clear on ESPN's Football Today podcast this afternoon.
I would like them all to answer this question: How did the Raiders get even worse this year after three offseasons, two full drafts and $60 million to spend in free agency this year? No one wants to ponder that question, because it doesn't fit the new narrative.
I was pretty critical of Mr. Davis toward the end, but this is getting ridiculous. Al Davis Derangement Syndrome is back, and the national media are afflicted.
Yes, Al Davis left this team in a bind, no one disputes that. No, reasonable Raiders fans didn't expect a Super Bowl champion in Reggie and DA's third year. Yes, we knew it would take time. But no freaking way did anyone expect the Raiders to still be worst team in the NFL after three years, riding a 10-game losing streak, and getting their asses handed to them virtually every week.
Part of the new narrative is that elite coaches and players will continue to avoid coming to Oakland, further lengthening this slow-motion death spiral--and that this is also Al Davis's fault.
No, it's not his fault. The fault lies at the feet of the men, Mark Davis, Reggie McKenzie and Dennis Allen, who in three years have failed to create any sort of winning culture or shown any sort of consistent competency. And Mark Davis hasn't been running the draft, running free agency or running the locker room, so he can only be so culpable.
And if it's true that the Raiders can't attract an elite coach or player, wouldn't that suggest that it's time for a new general manager? If not the general manager, then who else is most responsible for failing to make the Raiders somewhat attractive? Al Davis passed away three years ago this week, and don't you dare tell me that he is the one still keeping elite players and coaches away from the Raiders.
The bottom line is that the new narrative is the same as the old narrative, except that the protagonist left us 1,090 days ago.
The national media need to stop mailing it in with the pretzel logic and start applying a little more due diligence to the story of the Oakland Raiders.
Let me remind you. The narrative was all about chasing the ghost of Al Davis out of the organization. Remember the Sports Illustrated piece, the one about how Reggie was modernizing the Raiders, upgrading the practice field, building a true scouting department and getting rid of the overhead projectors? Finally, what everyone was asking for (including myself) had happened: The owner had hired a general manager, let the general manager hire a coach, and got out of the way so that they could get to work.
Well, lo and behold, we suddenly have a brand new narrative, and it's this: Dennis Allen and Reggie McKenzie aren't really to blame for this mess, and they're still (or in DA's case, were) being held back by the ghost of Al Davis.
The new narrative has been on full display this week, and I heard it loud and clear on ESPN's Football Today podcast this afternoon.
I would like them all to answer this question: How did the Raiders get even worse this year after three offseasons, two full drafts and $60 million to spend in free agency this year? No one wants to ponder that question, because it doesn't fit the new narrative.
I was pretty critical of Mr. Davis toward the end, but this is getting ridiculous. Al Davis Derangement Syndrome is back, and the national media are afflicted.
Yes, Al Davis left this team in a bind, no one disputes that. No, reasonable Raiders fans didn't expect a Super Bowl champion in Reggie and DA's third year. Yes, we knew it would take time. But no freaking way did anyone expect the Raiders to still be worst team in the NFL after three years, riding a 10-game losing streak, and getting their asses handed to them virtually every week.
Part of the new narrative is that elite coaches and players will continue to avoid coming to Oakland, further lengthening this slow-motion death spiral--and that this is also Al Davis's fault.
No, it's not his fault. The fault lies at the feet of the men, Mark Davis, Reggie McKenzie and Dennis Allen, who in three years have failed to create any sort of winning culture or shown any sort of consistent competency. And Mark Davis hasn't been running the draft, running free agency or running the locker room, so he can only be so culpable.
And if it's true that the Raiders can't attract an elite coach or player, wouldn't that suggest that it's time for a new general manager? If not the general manager, then who else is most responsible for failing to make the Raiders somewhat attractive? Al Davis passed away three years ago this week, and don't you dare tell me that he is the one still keeping elite players and coaches away from the Raiders.
The bottom line is that the new narrative is the same as the old narrative, except that the protagonist left us 1,090 days ago.
The national media need to stop mailing it in with the pretzel logic and start applying a little more due diligence to the story of the Oakland Raiders.
posted by Raider Take at 4:13 PM
134 Comments:
RT, I hear what your saying, but really. Who cares what the national media thinks anymore ?
The media have their favorites, and they write their stories as such.
Right, or wrong. Fact, or fiction. As long as their favorites come out looking good.
Al Davis was not a favorite of todays media.
When Al died, sports illustrated magazine, put Joe Johnson,(whoever that is), on their cover.
When Chuck Noll died, he got the cover,(I saw it on the newsstand).
My reaction ? Never buy S.I. mag again. I have my favorites too.
How could McKenzie hire a top coach with an Org in shambles? No HC worth his salt would of touched it with a ten foot pole and they didn't.
Until McKenzie could have some players and an Org that could attract a good HC, Dennis had to fill in. Maybe McKenzie was hoping Allen could develop into the job, it wasn't the case.
Now the Org has some stability IF McKenzie is kept and some promising young talent to attract a good HC. Context of the situation flies right over this blog and it's readers.
Raider00, it's not so much that I care what they think. But national narratives can be a powerful thing. They shape perception, and then perception becomes reality. False narratives shouldn't go unchallenged.
Anon, I respect your opinion, and sometimes I think we should just ride this Reggie thing through for another year. It's a tough call for sure.
But regarding context, I'm wondering what you think of this question: After three offseasons, after two 4-12 years, after another full draft, after $60 million to spend in free agency, after another big veteran QB signing, how did this team get worse?
P.S. Grab a handle so we can call you something besides Anon. It's confusing with these different Anons, and having a handle is fun.
The media love to hate the Raiders. That's one culture that never changes.
To the anon "stepping stone" theorist, a/k/a Jones; what players has McKenzie brought to the Raiders that make your theory plausible? And how is it the Raiders are worse this year than during the previous two years, despite being flush with cash and draft picks?
Let me go on record as saying it’s not AL’s fault. As someone pointed out previously, any one of us could have drafted Mack and Carr 1-2 this year. But McKenzie is responsible for wasting millions $$ on QBs, losing what few talented free agent players the Raiders had, and spending millions on washed up vets who, instead of changing the losing culture, appear to be perpetuating it.
Deserving or not, Allen has been made a fall guy for McKenzie. His biggest mistakes in my opinion were hiring Knapp and Tarver. That’s no small thing, but we are still strapped with Tarver... who should be fired before season’s end because his defense sucks!
Honestly, if Sparano is now “the guy,” why wasn’t he hired as HC instead of O-line coach?
This season is now officially over. Unless the Raiders make more changes toward improving the front office down, this vicious cycle remains on rinse and repeat.
My position starting last year wasn't about wins, it was about seeing some level of improvement. Yet the team is much worse. That's unacceptable, or at least it should be.
It's laughable that when McKenzie was asked what, if any, mistakes he'd made to get the Raiders in this mess, his response was that he hired Dennis Allen.
He's being way to kind to himself.
NY, I'm wondering if the national media hate the Raiders, or just the Davis family.
Honestly, I've never heard more excuses for dumpster fire than I'm hearing right now.
It's as if just because Al Davis did a bad job in his final years, everyone else gets a pass for doing a bad job, and it's still Al's fault.
I was listening to Sirius today and it sounded to me like these guys have just run out of material. They really don't know anything about the post-AL Raiders. It's too easy to fall back on the old shtick.
RT, both ESPN and Profootballtalk are NFL toadies. They spout what the NFL thinks and wants and in exchange they get inside stories that the NFL doles out to them. That's actually a fairly typical phenomenon throughout the national media as a whole. I doesn't just happen in sports.
It surprises me, though, that nobody seems to really understand the depth with which the NFL loathes Al Davis. They would even prefer to eliminate his legacy. The NFL could easily step in and help the Raiders acquire a new stadium, as they have readily done for other teams. They won't do it, mark my words, unless they can drive the Raiders down so far that even Mark Davis has to sell the team.
Here's Rich Gannon ripping the Raiders a new ass.
“They got this sign in front of the building that says: ‘Commitment to Excellence.’ They ought to take it down. It’s false advertising right now. There’s no commitment to excellence. There’s a commitment to mediocrity right now. And that’s the problem."
There's much more, like this gem:
“There’s people out in Oakland, in that building, players, coaches, front office, people in business, accounting: stealing. They ought to give the check back. The product on the field is terrible."
Doesn't sound like Rich agrees with the stepping stone theory.
http://tinyurl.com/o6tpbrw
"They really don't know anything about the post-AL Raiders. It's too easy to fall back on the old shtick."
That's exactly my takeaway. They need to do their jobs better.
But Rich, who is part of the media, which is it?
The hole was deep and it has to be built through the draft.
1st year, had to start in the 4th RD, a wash. 2nd year, very mediocre draft across the board for any team. This years draft, excellent.
They say those picks fell in his lap...did those DHB, Russell etc picks fall in the GM's lap? Like I wrote, the good moves Reggie has made, it's a fluke or they fell in his lap. Bad moves, Reggie being Reggie. Lynch Mob is right.
RT, NYR, I think it's also true that the media loves a winner.
They are a bunch of front running, bandwagon jumping zombies.
Back in the day, Raiders, and Al Davis actually some allies in the media.
Howard Cosell, Jimmy the Greek, Pete Axhelm, Brent Musberger, all were friendly to the Raiders.
I know this much. Just let Bill Belichick have a 10 year losing streak.
And the media will throw him over so fast, his head will spin.
RT, NYR, I think it's also true that the media loves a winner.
They are a bunch of front running, bandwagon jumping zombies.
Back in the day, Raiders, and Al Davis actually had some allies in the media.
Howard Cosell, Jimmy the Greek, Pete Axhelm, Brent Musberger, all were friendly to the Raiders.
I know this much. Just let Bill Belichick have a 10 year losing streak.
And the media will throw him over so fast, his head will spin.
the national media are puppets. if they trash the Raiders, it looks good to their employers. Why anyone takes what the national media has to say as anything more than toilet paper, is beyond me, nothing but liars. But, they still believe their TV's HAHA...dumb-asses.
The team Davis left behind could beat the pants off this current team.
Rich Gannon's tirade on Sirius was awesome. He was correct and Gannon should be brought back in some capacity. Reggie is a complete fool.
The answer to the Raiders problems are very simple. Hire Gruden move to LA. Instant credibility, passion, re-energize the fan base and the value of the franchise doubles.
Sandy
then Gruden does what he did in Tampa and where are you? And LA isn't going to take a Org in shambles...hiring Gruden doesn't instantly fix anything.
and the refs never call the Raiders like no other team...nooo, it just couldn't happen, right? the national media ganging up on the Raiders, kicking them when they are down? Nahhh, not possible, how could they co-ordinate that? HAHA...so naïve or just in denial?
the nfl wants the Davis family out and they have all their minions on strike alert.
Have to ask: Why wouldn't the national media trash the Raiders? Start putting out a decent product that includes wins, playoff caliber teams and the switch gets pulled. 13 consecutive years of ineptitude -- one wonders does M. Davis have the fortitude and capabilities to pull this franchise out of the gulch or would it be in the best interest in the league, Raiders fans, and the organization for him to sell the team. It seems to me that he might have his heart in the right place but the responsibility and weight of the franchise is a burden he can't shoulder.
or you could say, they do hate the Raiders and it does go back to Al Davis.
They are bed with the NFL, they push an NFL agenda. That agenda includes screwing the Raiders, or haven't you noticed?
The media is part of an agenda and if you don't believe it, watch your TV for Christ sake.
Settle down, the media is getting you riled, hold steady. Allen was hired because no one else would, Sparano was hired for when Allen failed/ASS.HC title.
He will see if he can spark a team that had no confidence in Allen. The vets quit on Allen. Now they have a HC they can at least respect, so let's see what happens? The media is a joke.
But that's my point, they aren't trashing the Raiders, they are making excuses for them!
The primary excuse is that it's still Al Davis's fault, and that what's happening is acceptable under the circumstances (ie: that it's still Al Davis's fault).
That's the new narrative.
The Raiders are currently Mark, Reggie and DA, and the national media are not hating on or trashing them.
These Raiders are being given a pass for this mess. Because their failures aren't failures, but rather the fault of a man who died 1,090 days ago.
the media is a little behind, huh?
The team had to be rebuilt from the Front Office, to scouting, to YOU NAME IT. It was bare, the cupboard was empty and please don't tell me the likes of Kelly, Huff, Rolando, Russell, DHB, Routt, etc was going to win the west when Manning came in and Rivers came back and Smith in KC.
The books were a complete disaster...so how do you rebuild a team? DRAFT, baby...it's the only way. How do you teach those young players what it takes to win in the NFL? You sign players who have been there and done that and are willing to pass it on.
The sacrificial HC who took the job no one else would touch, is gone. The next step has been taken. We will see what the team will do with a coach they can at least respect, then we can get a clearer picture.
Allen was lost, Sparano pretty much said he was doing the same things over and over expecting different results. He was in over his head.
McKenzie had to let it play out or it would have scared away prospective HC's. He had to at least build some sort of foundation before he could attract a REAL HC. It's part of the process. Firing Reggie now would be a huge mistake.
Mocking Reggie because he doesn't speak they way one likes, that is low class./ny
Anon - If Allen was a stepping stone, why wasn't he replaced this past off-season? Why are we wasting time? Why did we just waste another entire season?
Given an avg of 7-8 draft picks a year, with maybe five that stick, it will take minimum 10 years to build a team through the draft. If you factor in injuries, losing key players in free agency, and the simple fact that the avg player career is less than three years, it becomes a never ending cycle.
And if giving McKenzie a league-record $60M to spend in free agency won't buy competent players this year, what makes you thing he'll know how to spend another $60M next year?
There's no fine line here. It's an explosion of insanity.
SCAR
Reggie McKenzie might or might not turn out to be the answer as the GM.
But I give him credit for firing Dennis Allen with 12 games left to play. With a different head coach, Mark Davis can truly evaluate if the problem was only the coaching, or is also the GM who signed all the players.
SCAR
Anon, you sound like that guy Jones who was on here before.
Reggie sucks dude everyone knows it. I mean you have three years of mistakes in FA (schaub, woodley, briesel, flynn) wasted draft picks (watson, hayden) bad coaching hires. I mean what more proof do you need.
The Raiders have no soul, no personality, the worst stadium in the NFL, zero leadership. Reggie is not a game changer he needs to go.
And yes the way he speaks or lack thereof is a barometer of his intelligence.
You say you need to build a foundation through drafting? Well where is it? The talent level is worse this year than last. Reggie may have identified 3 players that are starters and will still be with the team in 3 years. That is the facts. Look at the corners he brought in this year they are awful.
Come on man seriously you are still supporting Reggie? You are the only one
Sandy
Oakland, voted least liked place by FA's, that's right, worst stadium, worst scenario....who was Reggie supposed to sign? What FA's were there, that wanted to come to Oakland? You act as if Reggie had the pick of the litter, he didn't.
He brought in some vets to bring along some youth. Every GM will tell you, you build a team through the draft, that is basic knowledge, to some.
No real coach wanted to coach, no top players wanted to come. Now tell me, what would your strategy be? Give me a real answer, not just how Reggie let Houston and Veld go...they aren't that good and aren't worth the contract. Tell me a better way and what he was supposed to do...tell the world, would love to hear it.
All of the bitchers, tell the world how it SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE, make it realistic and not a bunch of crying.
Reggie's 1st draft...started at the top of the 4th RD. His 2nd draft, no team did well in that draft, full of mediocre talent.
3rd draft, HE SCORES, top 4 picks look very good.
Hayden and Watson are not done yet, Watson will be fine and if Hayden can stay healthy, he will be fine too.
Another good draft this year and their is your core group. Hopefully the FA's brought in will be upgraded too if Sparano can show that these young guys are going to be a force.
A good HC'ing hire and next year looks like more progress towards the end goal.
I think a lot of you have no idea how big a job was placed in front of Reggie....he is getting flogged by the angry mob who doesn't even know that you build your team through the draft, I feel bad for the guy.
You could see he was visibly upset about having to fire Allen, it was his 1st HC fire. Reggie is a good guy and he is doing everything in his power to move this thing forward. We as Raider fans(?), need to stick behind him.
The public flogging of him by our own fans, is embarrassing. We as Raider fans should understand the situation while the mainstream media is just catching on to what was in front of McKenzie.
I think most who comment are ESPN, NFL NETWORK zombies who believe everything they tell them. They hate the Raiders, so why would you get your info from Raider haters?
2013 draft, might have been nice to get one of these guys, or anyone who was considered a Top 25 rookie from that class:
1. Kiko Alonso, Buffalo Bills linebacker: The No. 46 overall pick in the 2013 NFL Draft leads the NFL in tackles (66) and interceptions (4). Although Alonso can thank a generous hometown scorer for the inflated tackles total, he's still been a difference-maker in Mike Pettine's defense.
2. Sheldon Richardson, New York Jets defensive end: Damon "Big Snacks" Harrison has been a mainstay in our "Making the Leap" series, but Richardson has been nearly as dominant against the run while adding a pass rushing element. The Jets' star-studded defensive line is holding opponents to a league-low 3.0 yards per carry.
3. Giovani Bernard, Cincinnati Bengals running back: Jay Gruden's offense finally has a second playmaker to complement A.J. Green. No rookie is within 100 yards of Bernard's 438 yards from scrimmage. His ankle-breaking 20-yard touchdown against the Bills looked like a clip from a Barry Sanders highlight video.
Eddie Lacy
4. Eddie Lacy, Green Bay Packers running back: Lacy is the first Packers rookie since John Brockington in 1971 to rush for at least 99 yards in back-to-back games. With Randall Cobb out at least eight weeks and James Jones nursing a PCL sprain, Lacy could be the focal point of the offense in a rejuvenated ground attack.
5. Tyrann Mathieu, Arizona Cardinals defensive back: The steal of the NFL draft, Mathieu has been an every-down asset as a slot corner, outside cornerback and deep safety. We knew about his natural playmaking instincts, but his tackling ability and run support have been just as impressive, drawing comparisons to former Vikings Pro Bowler Antoine Winfield.
6. Star Lotulelei, Carolina Panthers defensive tackle: Every couple of games, Carolina's defense just slaps an offense around. Lotulelei has been instrumental in the improved run defense, shutting down the interior.
7. Eric Reid, San Francisco 49ers safety: It's not hyperbole to suggest that Reid is a playmaking upgrade on Dashon Goldson, a first-team All-Pro in 2012. The first-rounder's range jumps off the screen on Game Rewind.
8. Keenan Allen, San Diego Chargers wide receiver: We've pointed out Allen's emergence as Philip Rivers' go-to receiver in back-to-back prime time games the past two weeks. A first-round talent who slid to the third, Allen is a complete receiver playing with a veteran's savvy.
9. Kyle Long, Chicago Bears guard: Jay Cutler is off to the best start of his career in no small part because of the upgraded offensive line. Long already has the look of a perennial Pro Bowl selection.
10. Larry Warford, Detroit Lions guard: Marc Sessler has outlined Warford's role in Reggie Bush's success. The third-rounder has also exceeded expectations in pass protection, keeping Matthew Stafford clean in the pocket.
Cordarelle Patterson
Here's a question no one wants to answer: How did the team get WORSE this year?
"What FA's were there..."
Veldheer and Jennings to start. McKenzie and Allen both proclaimed re-signing these guys as top priority during the off-season, which made perfect sense. They failed to sign or tag either one. Both player positions have been downgraded significantly since their departures.
That's only touching the surface. There's so much more.
Your entire argument is based on conjucture. That no decent free agents wanted to come to Oakland. Funny because Tuck, Woodley and Smith were reported to have all communicated with each other in support of their signings with the Raiders.
Turns out, it's a mass conspiracy to convert the Raiders roster into a retirement home for burned out vets.
Our team got worse this year because our coaching staff refuses to make an aggressive game plan.
Our defense plays soft zone/read and react. Our offense does a couple runs up the middle, and then tries to pass to WRs who cannot run proper routes, or they drop a ball because it hit their hands.
You make soft game plans, you have a team of pu$$es. That is what our coaching staff has done. How do you line up 1 CB against 3 WRs, and have the CB line up 5-8 yards away from the LoS? Not only once, but 3 different times? How do you only have 10 men on the field?
The one thing that will prove it is the coaching is if Sparano is true to his word and game plans to the strengths of the players and not the scheme.
In 2013, we owned the #3 pick, which we traded with the Dolphins and moved down to #12 to pick Hayden. Here are a few players we could have picked at #3 that would have been better than Hayden.
Dee Milliner, CB
Ziggy Ansah, DE
Sheldon Richardson, DT
Cordarrelle Patterson, WR
Kenny Vacarro, SS
DJ Fluker, OT
Here is who we could've drafted instead of Watson in the 2nd Round:
DJ Swearinger, SS
Montee Ball, RB
Le'Veon Bell, RB
Keenan Allen, WR
Zach Ertz, TE
Larry Warford, OG (not picked until Round 3 and had a higher grade than Watson, and Watson was the only O-lineman picked in the 2nd round)
Kevin Minter, LB
Kiko Alsonso, LB
Jamar Taylor, CB (higher grade than Hayden)
That was a horrible 1-2 punch pick by McKenzie. He whiffed pretty bad on that.
Lets go back to 2012, and see who he could've picked instead of Bergstrom, Burris, Crawford, Criner, and Bilukidi.
Kirk Cousins, QB
Brandon Boykin, CB
Lamar Miller, RB
Marvin Jones, WR
Alfred Morris, RB
Vick Ballard, RB
Asa Jackson, CB
Emmanuel Acho, LB
Jeremy Lane, CB
Other Gannon quotes that tell it like it is, and he's right, that the Raiders need more of:
"You don't have enough badasses that are going to stand up and do something about it."
"You don't have those players. You don't have a Peyton Manning to stand up in the middle of a Friday practice and say, 'Nah, uh. Let's stop the play and do it over. We don't drop the ball on Friday.'"
Hells yeah! That is the kind of leadership from the coaches that I am looking for! Come on Rich, preach it.
If you used the #3 pick, then there would be no 2nd Rd pick because it was picked up by trading down.
Penn is outplaying Veld, Tuck is outplaying Houston.
If you listened to Sparano's PC, he stated that DA was banging his head against the wall, trying to do the same things over and over that wasn't working. OBVIOUSLY the vets quit on him...did you see the game in LONDON? It was a total lay down by the vets...they showed what they thought of Allen, Reggie got the message. Sparano should have more respect from the vets, lets' see what happens.
You guys make these lists, it's still mediocre and Hayden isn't done...give the kid a chance, Watson will be fine. If Hayden comes back, stays healthy and plays to his potential and Watson gets some more exp and will be a starter next year. Cutting them down like they were wasted picks is just more hate.
I think Gannon was talking about the players in that quote.
this is what I think of Rich Gannon too. Chris Hansen tweets about Gannon's rant
Bring in people that have done it before (Only Gruden has), but don't keep replacing coaches and players. Bring in players who care. WHAT?
— Christopher Hansen (@ChrisHansenNFL) October 2, 2014
McKenzie has been part of winning org. Brought in players that have been leaders in winning orgs. Did exactly what Gannon yelling about.
— Christopher Hansen (@ChrisHansenNFL) October 2, 2014
Love Rich, but what the Hell is he trying to say? Basically, the Raiders aren't getting the job done. Need to see more fight.
— Christopher Hansen (@ChrisHansenNFL) October 2, 2014
I think Gannon is right in the sense that Raiders need leadership. The rest is sort of ridiculous.
— Christopher Hansen (@ChrisHansenNFL) October 2, 2014
McKenzie has done everything he can to try to bring in leaders and change the culture. Can't do more than he has done on that front.
— Christopher Hansen (@ChrisHansenNFL) October 2, 2014
Looks like Jones is making a comeback - but at least without the name calling. I don't believe that one can necessarily tell when a coach loses a team. Nobody wants to get their coach fired, because you're likely to get tossed along with him if it is perceived that you aren't trying. McKenzie has these vets playing on minimal, short-term contracts. They've already seen how easy it is on this team to be replaced.
What I might try if I were McKenzie is treating a free agent like his contribution is worth something to me.
My only problem with Gannon is that he's up for the HoF. If he gets in there before Stabler or Plunkett, I have no more respect for the HoF. Gannon was only a starter for the Raiders, and before that he was a career backup. He took the Raiders to the Super Bowl - but lost it. In fact, he was terrible in that game.
I don't think we're going to get either Cower or Gruden, but that's probably for the better. I'm willing to watch while Sparano attempts to prove his point about this team, but he's going to have to win at least five games in the remaining twelve for me to believe he's the right man for the job. And, frankly, I think that's a really low bar.
"McKenzie has done everything he can to try to bring in leaders and change the culture. Can't do more than he has done on that front."
Frankly, I think that's precisely where he's failed. I see two leaders on that team - Woodson and the emerging leadership of Carr. Woodson will probably retire at the end of the year, and Carr's leadership needs to grow.
I haven't seen any leadership coming out of McKenzie's coaching staff, LBs, DBs, OLs or DLs. That seems to be something he's not very good at identifying.
Here are 6 ways that the Raiders organization and team need to change their philosophy to distinguish themselves to become a winning team from a losing team (Some of these are what Gannon was alluding to):
1. Winning teams have winning players, losing teams have good and gifted players.
2. Winning teams guard the gate, losing teams let anyone in.
3. Winning teams make unity a priority, losing teams make it an afterthought.
4. Winning teams focus on their mission, losing teams focus on their success.
5. Winning teams focus on empowerment, losing teams focus on excellence and tenure.
6. Winning teams adapt to the future, losing teams long for the past.
Anon said, "If you used the #3 pick, then there would be no 2nd Rd pick because it was picked up by trading down."
We still could have traded down and picked those players.
nate, you don't know that...one pick changes, the whole draft changes.
Gannon goes in the Hall because he is part of the NFL team, just like Warren Sapp and the rest of the NFL crew. Gannon has sold himself to them, they hate the Raiders. Can it be any more obvious? Just like the team quitting on their HC in London, could that have been any more obvious? Just because someone can't see it, doesn't mean it didn't happen.
Anon - What value did we derive from trading down at #3?
And to suggest Penn is outplaying Veldheer and Tuck is outplaying Houston is funny. These guys have become part of the problem, not the solution.
Let's see how long Veldheer and Houston are with their respective teams, and how long Penn and Tuck stick with the Raiders.
See the point?
Instead of filling holes, McKenzie is creating them.
You can't build a team just from the draft. There has to be a balance with free agency. So far, McKenzie has failed to instill confidence that he's capable of identifying the right talent and able to create that balance.
SCAR
ANON,I mostly agree with you. Still how about giving yourself a handle?
Hindsight is 20/20. The 2012 draft really was a crapshoot. It's quite reasonable to say that a low yield of players that have stuck is not unusual given the circumstances. For McKenzie to score that year would literally have been brilliant!
The 2013 draft is not looking so promising as of yet, however the 2014 draft looks STRONG. Imo, worse case scenario, 2013 and 2014 wash each other out. So as far as personnel evaluation in the draft, Reggie Mckenzie does NOT receive a failing grade. Anyone that tries to convince me otherwise I will probably just scroll past your comment and you can do the same with mine.
As far as free agent acquisitions?? Somebody really does need to explain to me Shaub and Flynn. They have not worked out for the Raiders and look to also be costly towards the cap. For me the book is still out on free agent acquisitions and leaning towards a failing grade.
SCAR
Houston is 3rd string in Chicago and Veld rates lower than Penn, get over it.
You build the core through the draft and you add on certain pieces through FA. Sorry you don't know the basics on building a team.
Veld and Houston didn't want to be a Raider unless they got a big contract. Reggie said he could find better, cheaper and with shorter contracts so he could DRAFT his own. Reggie didn't think they warranted those contracts and it will prove out to be right.
They are mediocre, yet you wanted to throw money at them FOR 5 YEARS just to keep them around because they were drafted by someone else? Man, that sounds a lot like what the last regime did, how did that work out?
Why you keep harping on that, is weird.
Is there such a thing as 3rd string in a D-line rotation? Simple fact is the Bears have better depth than the Raiders... which, again, rests solely with McKenzie.
Yes, there is. LOL, so Houston gets 5 years/7 per and huge guarantee and you still think it's good deal because Chicago has better depth. And you are mocking Reggie? LMFAO
Anon - your logic is steeped in the "new narrative." You're still blaming a regime that died with AL more than 3 years ago. Yet here we are stuck in a losing culture which is still spiraling downward, and you're perfectly fine with it.
Perhaps it's time for a reality check, my friend.
I've said many times that McKenzie's failures, taken individually, mean very little. But when taken collectively, are more egregious.
IMO, McKenzie has not performed well enough to retain his job. Obviously, that’s Mark Davis’s decision to make, and he’s made it. He’s even gone as far as stating he will never fire Reggie McKenzie (see hallway PC on Raiders website).
That scares, as it should any Raiders fan. What level of failure will it take for Davis to change his mind and replace McKenzie? Are we talking Matt Millen level of failure?
how many moves has McKenzie made compared to every other GM in the league in the last 2 and something years? Of course there would be whiffs, it's the nature of the Biz. When making as many roster moves as he has had to make with limited resources and no building blocks in place. Who needs a reality check? Mirror, meet your face.
As far as your dig about me being fine with it, no. I just see it for what it is, you just want to be another Rich Gannon, shoot your mouth off because you think it makes you look good....trust me, you don't.
NY your dead on Reggie's mistakes are extensive. Equally as disgusting is his lack of success. In three years he has put in place if we are lucky only three long term starters, Mack, Carr and Watson. At this rate given a team needs at least 11-16 good starters to even get to .500 we should be looking at 8-8 in about 5 years at this rate. LOL
Don't worry Reggie will be gone at the end of the year and he knows it. I have been shitting on him since he got here. The only guy in the western hemisphere supporting him is this anon dude.
Raider Take straight up are you not praying for Gruden or how about a Gruden with Gannon as QB coach combo. Things are so dire and depressing its about the only thing I can come up with to give the franchise a shot in the arm?
Please Chucky come home
Sandy
Anon, if Reggie is doing a good job, how has the team not gotten better on the field, and is, in fact, now worse than ever before under his watch?
Conversely, if he was doing a bad job, how much worse could the team be than it is now?
We've addressed your questions. Your turn.
already wrote it, how many times you want me to go in your circle?
Anon
its wins and losses my man. 4 wins two years in a row and possibly less this year. Do you need more proof than that.
Don't think there is much to debate when faced with that. At some point time runs out and benefit of the doubt is gone. I think 3 years is plenty
Sandy
Anon said,
"nate, you don't know that...one pick changes, the whole draft changes."
Yes we do know Reggie could have picked those players, because those players were available whether or not the Raiders stayed at #3 or traded down. All of those players I listed in the 2012 draft were players still available at the times the Reggie made his picks.
Now with that said, I'm not sure how much time Reggie really had to do some scouting for the Raiders since he came into the picture WAY behind schedule. The thing that still bugs me about Reggie and Dennis Allen when they first came aboard is they admittedly did not know what kind of talent they had on the field, and they were going to use the 2012 season to assess that talent. That screamed to me failure, and further more, I knew Allen wasn't going to last long as Head Coach when he brought back Knapp as OC.
Being in the present, I think Reggie has done some things right as far as culture change in the organization of the Raiders. As far as doing some things right to make the team better? No.
Sandy, you mentioned Watson as a possible long term starter. He's not even a starter now. I think the people that he has brought in that are better than advertised is Sio Moore, Khalil Mack, Derek Carr, Donald Penn (don't blame him for the pu$$ play calling from Olson), and Howard. Everyone else he has brought in is second rate.
Nate - I'm surprised you would single out any of the Raiders O-line as being "better than advertised".
61.5 YPG on the ground is less than half last year's avg per game. Raiders went bigger to push people around and have been totally dominated in four games.
There are no stars on this line. Everybody is expendable!
Nate 75 I messed up when I said Watson I mean Gabe Jackson.
Watson is a bust he could not beat out Barnes and they gave him every opportunity to do so. Reggie traded up to draft a project
Sandy
you do know it takes time for an O-line to gel?
Oh, yeah, forgot who wrote that. Thinks it's a video game.
Sparano said Allen was pigheaded, in so many words, now we know why they ran the same dive play 20 times per game getting 2 1/2 yds per. Let's see what happens with the new coach, if the players keep bagging it and things are done in the same fashion as Allen, then McKenzie will be in deep shit. I think Sparano is going to get more out of this team, but that's just me.
I also think Sparano will get more out of this team due to his leadership and experience. We will all know if Sparano earns the right to be HC in 2015 or not based on the final 12 games. Less blowouts, more competitive losses, and more wins (min. of 4 to see some tangible proof).
What I'm hoping that happens under Sparano's watch is an aggressive approach to winning games. It is a very difficult situation for Sparano but it is also an excellent opportunity to demonstrate his ability to effectively communicate & lead the players and staff and face adversity head-on.
If marshmellows had arms and legs, they would be 0-linemen for the Raiders.
If creampuffs had eyes and ears, they would be D-linmen for the Raiders.
Bottomline...this team is soft, soft, soft. And Reggie built it.
It's up to Sparano to rekindled the toughness that the players possess. I personally don't think that the players are soft. I think the players need to be guided and led with a purpose and spirit.
We shall see.
And yes, all the "anons" who want to continue with a healthy discourse, why not grab a handle?
"you do know it takes time for an O-line to gel?
Oh, yeah, forgot who wrote that. Thinks it's a video game."
Does anyone doubt that Jones is the author of this?
Spineless much?
Let's not forget too that McKenzie invited instability by allowing Veldheer to walk. Otherwise, Wiz, Barnes, Watson... all the same players!
Sparano might get more out of the team than Allen but it won't change the fact that we will be looking for another HC and team full of assistant coaches, and they will be using the "time to gel" excuse next year when the same problems reveal themselves all over again. It's more than likely.
Having a little cash doesn't change anything in Oakland. Clearing dead money didn't take special talent, only time.
Spending it wisely has been the ultimate challenge.
Not just Wiz, Barnes, Watson, but also Sparano (line coach) Olsen (OC) and Allen (HC), etc.
All these remained static 2013 to 2014 but we are told they needed time to gel.
Just checked Pro FF stats:
2006 B&B offense managed 150.25 yards per game rushing in their first four games. They didn't need time to gel.
Raiders are one more blowout away from mailing in the rest of 2014.
This is rock bottom, folks.
NY, Raider Take
I think something that needs pointing out when we bash Reggie is besides the lack of talent many guys he signs are here for a year or two at most. Coupled with a lack of good players through the draft this is a disaster
Again no foundation put in place.
In three years there has been three different sets of cbs (Spencer/Bartell, Jenkins/Porter and Brown/Rogers).
We all know CB/OT is the second/third most important position in football and besides the fact Reggie can not identify and or acquire talent at that position next year will be the 4th set of cbs in four years.
You can probably say there will also be huge turnover next year at WR, OL, DL and RB as well.
So anyone that says Reggie has a plan for the long term is full of crap. Please show me how he is building a foundation? When the roster will be turn over for the fourth time in four years next year.
Do you not agree this is a massive indictment of Reggie's incompetence?
Have a good weekend
Sandy
Do you guys remember taking wet wads of toilet paper and throwing them at walls to see what would stick? That is how it feels like Reggie is doing when he picks up players. Picking up random players but nothing seems to be sticking.
"It's up to Sparano to rekindled the toughness that the players possess"
*************************************************************************************************************************
CJ, this is the scary part. Sparano, with a rep as a very good 0-line coach, has not been able to get this unit to play, hard, tough, or smart.
Add to it, that at the PC introducing Sparano as interim HC. Reggie said he will be looking for the next Raiders HC,(God help us).
Never once did Reggie say, well, if Tony does a great job, he has a chance of returning.
Reggie cut Sparano down right then and there.
Why would players play hard for Sparano now ? They didn't on the 0-line before. And, if you listen to Reg at the PC, sounds like he has no chance of remaining at years end.
So to those who think Raiders biggest problem is finding a way to get Marcel Reese the ball more. Wake up.
Raiders biggest problem is that they don't fight hard, in the trenches, on both sides of the ball.
And I doubt, under the circumstances, Sparano will be able to change this for the better.
NY, I think the reason why we do not do well in the running game is because of the Running Backs and play calling, not the O-line.
Olsen calls for soft runs and blocking. McFadden still seems to be tripped up by the LoS, and he still runs into his lineman even though they've created a hole for him to run through.
I think we will see a change in how plays are called after the bye because if he's true to his word, Sparano's game plan will be based on the players' strengths and what they like to do. So I think you will see McFadden go off tackle more in a power run, than up the middle. I think you will see Reece involved more.
Besides, they have done a great job on pass protection. Yes, there has been pressure, but again that is on the WRs not running their routes quickly. But we will see, when we will see.
Nate - I agree with the first part but I don't see how things will change. Olsen still calling plays and McFadden still running the ball.
It's easy for any coach to say he will base the game plan on player strengths, but each player is unique in this regard. You can't accommodate them all... and if you try, you're probably overthinking the process.
I believe we will see a flash of improvement, but only because men have pride/ego to drive them. This season has been a complete embarassment to everyone and everything Raiders.
In my estimation, Derek Carr is the only glimmer of hope for this franchise right now. Everything else remains fluid.
That's pretty sad to say after three offseasons with McKenzie driving the bus.
"McFadden still seems to be tripped up by the LoS, and he still runs into his lineman even though they've created a hole for him to run through"
********************************************************************************************************************************************
Wow. This sounds like Raiders have Stevie Wonder running the ball.
But wait. Better not give Reggie any ideas...LoL.
Marcel Reece responded to Gannon
"It’s funny because I was on Rich’s show (Wednesday) morning and none of this stuff was said when I was on air with him," Reece said, "and a few hours later people are bringing me transcripts of this rant that he went on.
"I take these types of things personally. He’s talking about the leadership on the team and the vets on the team, and I am a leader on this team."
"My question to Rich is, when is the last time Rich actually came to watch us practice and watch the work that we put in?" Reece said. "And for Rich to be a guy who people love, Raider fans love him, the organization has showed him a ton of love and he’s talking about the organization that gave him a chance and let him do his thing here and now he’s just bashing us.
"I’m in the business of fixing problems and not causing them. I invite Rich to a practice, come see how myself and my guys work every day, day in and day out and the excellence that we do demand of each other. That’s what I ask him."
Gannon’s response?
On Thursday morning, Gannon sent off a Tweet that said he "lost himself" in his rant Wednesday and acknowledged that there are people within the organization that want to win.
Screw Gannon
I get that Reece feels that way, but he has become the most over-rated, previously under-rated player ever. Maybe that's the fault of coaching but he's dropped more than a couple passes. If he want's to be a leader, he should be lighting fires right now, not putting them out.
No. I'm more inclined to agree with Charles Woodson's assessment of the Raiders: "We suck!"
Gannon has joined the NFL team...much like Warren Sapp. There are benefits, but you have to follow the script. Part of that script is bashing the Raiders at every turn. Sounds like some people(?) in here. But go ahead and join along with the NFL network and all the clowns on the radio...like their word is gospel. Doesn't sound like a Raider to me.
Woodson was also asked after last game if the HC should be fired, he kind of nodded his head yes and said "that's a really hard question to answer". Right there, the vets had quit on him and Charles said it was time. The vets showed it in London, that is exactly how they played that game...yes, he should be fired and there was no doubt about it.
So a step has been taken to move forward, what else do you want? You don't even know the basics of the game, yet your ego tells you that you know more than Reggie, LMFAO.
It doesn't matter what Gannon says. Doesn't matter what Reece says. Doesn't matter what Woodson says.
It doesn't matter how hard the Raiders practice. Or how bad they feel after each loss.
It doesn't matter what Reggie says, what Mark Davis says, or what Sparano says.
It doesn't matter how many players say they are "buying in", or are encouraged by the latest, "new direction".
The only thing that matters is the Raiders performance, on the field, on gameday.
And so far, it sadly, embarrassingly, speaks for itself.
Anon/Jones your logic is flawed somehow you are espousing that Reggie deserves credit for firing Allen. HE HIRED HIM. What are you going to come up with next that Reggie is a great GM because he cut Matt Flynn. Laugh your ass off about that one
Sandy
Anon/Jones - Where did I say Allen shouldn't be fired? What I've said is the issues run much deeper than the HC.
And this team hasn't taken a step forward by firing its HC. This is a step backwards.
Even McKenzie is acknowledging that mistake.
We're 0-4, with an interim HC, lame duck staff of assistant coaches, short-term vet contracts, and the prospect of another coaching change and near full roster turnover.
There's remains a possibility that Mark Davis will come to his senses and replace McKenzie.
That would be a step forward.
So while you're applauding the Raiders, other fans are looking to score silver & black paper bags to punch eye holes and where to o.co coliseum.
You say vets quit on their coach and mailed the game in.
Reece says Gannon is wrong about the team not having leaders and stealing paychecks.
How can you both be right?
LOL...the lynch mob is frothing...hey Sandy Beach....didn't you say you agreed with Gannon after his rant? LMFAO. Just cry, babies
The Raiders deserve to be bashed by the fans and media until ... wait for it ... they prove otherwise on the field.
You perform well, execute, and win games and the narrative changes. The degree of the narrative change is directly in proportion to the # of wins.
Parsing what Gannon said and the validity of his statements is mental masturbation.
gee, how profound...we all want wins, duhhhh. discussing the reality of the situation is what fans do. some see it different than others, some just parrot what they see from the "experts". Some are passionate, some are numb, like yourself. Some take EVERYTHING into account, some just say...well, where are the wins? Maybe you can say, we are different.
Raider Take you are spot on. When Dolphin RBs are not touched until they are ten yards down field you know guys are mailing it in on top of the terrible lack of talent on the team.
The Raiders need a complete overhaul, Gruden and Gannon would be a great combo and would raise the intensity level to what is required to win in the NFL
Sandy
It's a bit ironic we're scolded for bashing the decisions being made by the Raiders but it's ok for the Raiders to bash us with over a decade of epic failures to field a competitive team.
I wonder where will be the "true" starting point for rebuilding this franchise.
Is wasn't hiring Dennis Allen. It certainly wasn't when Allen hired Greg Knapp, and probably not Olsen or Tarver.
It's not now, when the Raiders have fired Allen, and hired Sparano as interim HC. Because if Sparano is the guy, shame on the Raiders for not making him HC three years ago.
So will our next HCand full complement of new coordinators and assistant coaches be the starting point?
Odds are in our favor, but history tells us otherwise.
Makes Me Laugh!!! Sadly (~_*)
And wasn't it you (Ya Know Who You Are) who promised us/me that without Al but instead that shiny new "GM" with full power over football operations that grand new things would be happening???..Once "Terrible Al" was out of the way!!!...Well you were completely uninformed then and you stay completely in the dark now as well...Always passing the buck while NEVER owning the pitifully wrong CRAP that you vomited up over and over for so long...So now your pissed because the "Mediot"s are still trying to ride your dead horse!!!...LoL!!
Well I guess you did post:
"I was pretty critical of Mr. Davis toward the end"....Yes You Were -n- unjustifiably so!!!
Just as now you want to be so critical of the shiny new "GM" that you were pimping to bring us glory!!!
Ya just still don't get it...We are just one of 32 teams who are all struggling to climb that ladder or stay on top once there...No One stays up there forever and some never make it back...Ask the Jets/"KC"/Miami and others...Far too many dominoes must line up to make a winning franchise...Can't be made by adding just one "GM" or taking away just one "MGP"...
Mistakes are made...That's the real world...Al had his share of both the good and the bad but all you "Mutinous Dogs" could see was the bad...
Ya see the bottom line is that what you lack is what Al preached:
Loyalty #1...No one can give that to you if you don't have it in yourselves...Gannon don't have it as he tuns on this franchise...Sap never had it...Marcus never had it...That list of faithless goes on and on...
Raider Luv #2...
Ya want an example...Look at Howe Long/Madden/Flores/Plunkett and such...Maybe ya learn something about how to clean up your acts!!!
PantyRaider...Still Just Criers On Your "Trail-o-Tears"!!!
Al Davis was a great man, but he ran this org deep into the ground. The climb out has been slower than expected...but what could have anyone expected, never in the history of pro sports had this scenario been played out.
There is no denying that his last 10 years were a disaster, Al Davis needed to change to a system that is in place now, a long time ago...the longer he went on with the OLD WAY....the deeper the hole when he was gone.
This new regime is still trying to fix a mess and there will be bumps on the way. Can't bail now, have to play it through, no sense declaring victory, cause NONE OF US ARE WINNING, are we?
The media are just catching on now what most of us saw when McKenzie took over...the hole was very deep. FACT, it was proven that Al Davis' way was not going to win...so why do you still defend it like it was better than change?
"Al Davis was a great man, but he ran this org deep into the ground. The climb out has been slower than expected"
***********************************************************************************************************************************
Once again. Al left behind a team with back to back, 8-8 records.
We now have a team that might, maybe, win a game or two.
And this comes after back to back, 4 win seasons.
If Reggie is climbing, it's in the wrong direction.
Anon,
Hayden, Flynn, Schaub, Briesel, Woodley, new CBs every year? back to back 4 win seasons and probably less than 4 this year?
Loosing about 7-8 legit starters
Those are some very large bumps in the road.
Sandy
"Once again. Al left behind a team with back to back, 8-8 records."
That's an incomplete picture. The mortgage on the future was HUGE. We were left with 1) aging stars, 2) speedsters with little football experience and 3) no draft picks. And then Hue goes and mortgages more.
Look, RM isn't a genius. But he isn't as lame as you all paint him to be. The team seems worse this year, that's obvious but to me, Carr, Jackson & Mack are better potential talents than McCain, Heyward Bey & Pryor.
LGR
According to "them".....the team will never win until Hue Jackson comes back and makes them 8-8....that is how pathetic the Raider fan base has become, it mirrors the team they bitch about.
What does "loosing" mean?
"Once again. Al left behind a team with back to back, 8-8 records."
The West didn't have Peyton Manning, it had timmy tebot. KC was just plain BAD, no Alex Smith. SD was playing their usual .500 ball. It was by far the weakest division in the NFL. The division still has two probable playoff teams in it, last year it had 3. All those great players that made the 8-8 team...where are they now?
I'm intrigued, interested, and curious to see what impact if any Sparano makes in 'week 1' of the new regime.
What is fascinating to me after 40 years of vested time in the Raiders is this juncture in the road ... the question is can a Head Coach capture the minds and spirits of 53 men to get them to perform at a noticeable level above their previous body of work?
In other words, does Sparano have the leadership, communication, and organizational skills to make a positive impact?
Can the Raiders punch above their weight (talent) by playing with passion and focus?
This Sunday vs. the Chargers will be a very interesting lab experiment. It might be fools gold to expect Sparano to turn things around this quickly but we will all know with our football eyes knowledge, and arm chair intuitiveness whether or not
(1) The Raiders have a good game plan; scheme, playcalling, adjustments, etc.
(2) The Raiders are playing with heart, flying around the field, playing to win, etc.
Raiders will never figure out the 3rd down mystery as long as DBs continue to line up 10-15 yards off the LOS in blitz packages.
That's almost as bad as Rob Ryan sending all 11 guys into coverage... and those were the good ole days!
Against Miami, there was one play (shown on S&B show) which Ross got to Tannehill untouched in probably 2-3 seconds. In that time, Tannehill threw for a 10-12 yard first down to an uncontested WR where Chekwa lined up 10-12 yards off LOS then back-peddled away from his position at the snap, making the WR an easy target at the first down marker.
IMO, we are back to the insane combination of bad coaching and incompetent play. This has proven to be a vicious cycle to break.
Unless Sparano forces his hand on defense, this isn't likely to change. Tarver is over his head. He probably speaks to his players the same way he speaks to the media, like he’s in Mr. Roger’s Neighborhood.
Meanwhile, Raiders incompetence is on display for everyone to see. Welcome to the greatest show on earth, folks. Baaa-dump-bump.
Don’t kid yourself. This is rock bottom. Mark Davis is dumbfounded. Reggie McKenzie is dumbfounded.
If the Raiders figure out anything anytime soon, it won't be because of a master plan. No plan is this bad.
At least Sparano had the Raiders bury their 0-4 balls yesterday; which means that they had to get new balls.
Switching some players lockers and not announcing the backup QB has about as much meat to it as leaving a couple days early for an east coast game.
Sparano might get a couple games out of this bunch but this season has become a stopgap to finding a new coaching staff and starting over, again!
So far, Carr and Mack, and perhaps Jackson are about all McKenzie has to show for three offseasons.
NY and Anon
I agree 3 future building (Carr, Mack and Jackson) blocks in three years is not going to do it.
You have to turn over the roster quicker than that. The secondary is a prime example of that. Is there one guy in our secondary now who you can see still playing for the Raiders and performing like a front line starter 24 months from now?
Why Reggie did not sign a real CB like a Verner or Talib etc with all the money he had I can not fathom. You can make the same arguments for the d-line. Woodley, Tuck Sims, Smith none of these guys are impact players anymore and they will not be on the team in 24 months.
That is a horrendous failing on the part of Reggie.
Sandy
Sandy, I agree completely that all the one-n-done CBs signings has been ridiculous. And if Reggie is waiting for Hayden to get healthy and play both CB positions (as it appears he is), we're screwed.
Branch is injury-prone and overrated. And Woodson, as amazing as he still is, has got to be sick of this team.
That leaves us with nobody in the secondary come 2015. Same story across most of the roster.
IMO, a critical mistake was made by McKenzie trying to appease Davis and win now in 2014. $60M should have been spent building the roster long-term, not on one-year vet deals, at least not nearly as extensive as what was undertaken.
should of done this, should of done that....tell us who should of signed who was willing to sign. Tell us the players he should of signed in FA....tell us how all the players wanted to come to Oakland. Tell us the list of HC's wanting to come to Oakland. You can't make the situation go away by just ignoring it...it has to be addressed and has to be done step by step.
No shortcuts, this franchise was a black hole....it's going to take a while. I don't think any of the posters in here realized how deep the mess was.
With the cupboard bare and no one wanting to come to Oakland...we are still paying for it and it's going to take some convincing to the rest of the players in the league that Oakland is a place that they will want to play.
Yeah, the past is still haunting this franchise and you can't shake 20 some odd years of WACKY and out of date chaos, so it seems.
The view of the Raiders is still what it used to be and 1st year coming out of cap hell....really, what should we really expect? This franchise had to start OVER, it takes time to rebuild something that was neglected for decades.
We all hope for the best, but at some point, you have to let reality sink in....or, you can just keep bitching the same talking points over and over because you can get a reply?
Pay me a GM salary and I'll be happy to take over. Can't possibly do worse.
Let's review: Three off-seasons and no substantive progress. How's that possible?
Even the worst imaginable roster has some serviceable players on it. Yet the Raiders have possibly three keepers (Mack, Carr and Jackson) and two of those would have been picked by anybody carrying a pulse who posts on this blog.
Coming off unprecedented cap space, it’s comical to read folks still complaining about cap problems.
And the notion no players and coaches will come to Oakland is another gem. If they wouldn’t come to Oakland before, why would they now?
Truth is, any HC worth his salt will want Reggie McKenzie gone. You think Bill Cowher or Jon Gruden would work for Reggie McKenize?
We are looking at a total reset in 2015. That’s not part of anyone’s master plan. It’s incompetent and inexcusable.
wow, you really showed Reggie how it is done. You don't know shit, and you just proved it again...yet you write as if you are an authority on the subject. If you can't tell us how it was supposed to be done, then STFU. Your opinion is worthless, just like DA, it has no meat to it.
I'm crushed at your disappointment. Aren't we still waiting for you to tell us what Reggie has done right? How has this franchise gotten better... aside from sleeping off it salary cap woes?
I already wrote what he has done in post's before, sorry if you can't remember...do I have to write it out every time you demand it?
Are you going to be a weasel and not tell us your great theory on how the team should have been built from the point Reggie was hired....you can't do it, so you deflect...what a troll.
to say the past still doesn’t haunt this team…is to have HUGE blinders on. All those failed picks, traded away picks…that is THE FOUNDATION that should be in place right now. You cannot build a foundation in 2 drafts and a 1/3. So all those wasted picks left the cupboard bare. There was nothing.
Saying Routt was worth anything? No, Huff, no, Shaughnessy, no, Pryor another wasted core pick…NOTHING…and you expect Reggie to have it all cleaned up with a top SHINEY NEW HC to make these players into champs.
I don’t think you can fathom it, it’s beyond your capability of reasoning.
How many drafts will it take? 10? 15? You can't build a roster through the draft alone and, apparently, Reggie can't help himself with record-setting cap space either.
I don't need to be a professional NFL GM to see failure. It's was written all over Reggie's face when he introduced Sparano as HC. It permeates the Raiders dismal 0-4 start, their 0-10 record in the last 10 games, and the simple fact that - 4 games into the 2014 season - we are now awaiting another near turnover of the roster and all new coaches for 2015... while carrying the same or worse attractiveness to the coaching post that brought Dennis Allen to the Raiders three years ago with, as you say, no other viable options.
But there you are still wearing the same coke bottle glasses that got you into this car wreck.
Alright, Jonesy. I'll skim the surface here but there's so much more.
I can I can tell you unequivocally that I would not have allowed Greg Kapp to enter the building. And neither would any Raiders fan with a pulse. What a colossal f-up that was!
I would have studied the roster to see what my personnel strengths were before blindly infusing a ZB scheme that clearly didn’t work in Oakland.
Don’t need a crystal ball to know I would not have signed Matt Flynn to $6.5M guaranteed. I would have made Matt McGloin the stopgap to Carr (or other drafted QB) instead of signing Schaub to $8M. What a waste!
I would have kept my promise to make a priority of signing Veldheer and Jennings, and I would have shown Darren McFadden the door and brought in young hungry RBs to start a chain... like the Broncos were always so successful doing.
I would have brought in O-linemen to play their natural positions, instead of T playing G and shuffling everybody around. I would move Wiz to G (possibly backup) because he’s below average as a center (cost us a TD in London!).
The list goes on and on.
McKenzie whiffed on evaluating the roster he inherited, he whiffed picking his HC, key draft picks, free agents, evaluating his HC after two full seasons, blah blah blah. What else is there? These are the things he gets paid to do. Why is that someone else’s fault?
1st year, was a write off. To hold them as failure when they walked into shambles and had a few months to get SOMEBODY to coach the disaster that was. No
Allen was hired because who else would of took it? Knapp was hired because who else would of took it. Pretending this wasn't a reality is just what you do.
Flynn was traded for because of Pryor and McGloin. A 5th pick and they restructured INCASE IT DIDN'T WORK OUT. But you don't know that because you only look at the surface, you have NO DEPTH, very shallow.
Schaub was traded for so there was a veteran presence and the cap had to be filled out or the Raiders would have been penalized....again, you don't know this because you are shallow. Schaub also would be a good mentor for Carr who they obviously had pegged before the draft because they showed up at all of his showings and games. But you don't know that.....
Veld didn't want to be in Oakland, Penn is outperforming him and for cheaper. Veld will not play to the end of his contract...but you don't know that......
DA made some awful choices with his personnel, I agree, Sparano says he will change things up. Give him a chance, he recognized Allen was in over his head.
Allen was a stepping stone. You don't that....the plate has to be set for the next hire, but you don't know that.....give it up, you are poor at what you do, I'm done...you've trolled enough out me for today.
I'll beat you to the punch..
Hue burnt his bridge with Mark, so don't bring that up.
NY your points are excellent and spot on. Don't waste your time being baited into arguments by Jones. The fact that he has reared his head is surprising in itself given how bad the Raiders are.
You can not argue with someone irrational enough to think acquiring three potentially above avg players in three years and a ten game loosing streak is somehow progress.
Soon Reggie will be deservedly fired even Jones realizes this.
BTW NY though I am somewhat encouraged by Carr I sure as hell am not ready to anoint him our starter for the next ten years. I think the jury is still out on him. Agree?
Sandy
loosing
We can all see the things Carr does well, and he certainly has the right attitude.
Carr threw 50 TDs last year playing shotgun type formations. Yet the Raiders have him mostly under center. If Sparano holds true to his word about playing more to player strengths, we should see more shotgun. Run a few delayed draw plays.
Time to open the playbook and stop being so figgin' predictable.
Anon/Jones, Raiders have come full circle from the days of B&B. Nobody wants to coach them (and jeopardize his career), and other teams regard playing the Raiders as an extra bye week in their schedule.
Isn't it about time we hold the organization to a higher standard?
IMO, Mark Davis should hire Bill Parcels or another highly regarded consultant to conduct a thorough search for candidates to replace Reggie McKenzie.
It's time to stop the bleeding!
you stop the bleeding by taking the necessary steps. That is being done. Without the necessary steps, you don't get anyone worth a shit. The Raiders have to show they are stable and able to attract and draft good players. Then and only then will a top HC or GM will be available. You do not have any understanding of the situation, you make that obvious. Yet, you act like you have all the answers, what a joke = NYR.
NY, I agree that the Raiders need someone with pedigree, but I think that needs to be a coach, not GM.
I think part of Reggie's problem is that he let Dennis Allen be a part of the process of who to bring in, draft, etc.; which is something that any respectable GM would do. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not placing sole blame on that issue. Reggie does have the final say.
The problem became having 2 inexperienced people in those key positions. If we are going to keep Reggie (which I am on the fence about), then they need a coach with pedigree and intensity. I think Reggie can do a better job now that he is not having to focus on cap issues. But he has to create a new atmosphere in the organization. That is the bigger issue for Reggie. So he needs a coach who can tell him what kind of talent he needs, and he needs a coach who will help him "recruit" this talent. Harbaugh would be epic, steal him from across the bay, and boom!
The other problem playing against the Raiders right now that is preventing the talent from coming are their facilities and location. Look at how well the A's were doing, yet couldn't sell out. Why? The economics of the city. The politicians are ruining that city, they are doing nothing to help growth increase (it is a picture of what is going on with the rest of the state).
Not too mention that the League has said they will not be helping the Raiders in their stadium situation. Yet they will be helping the new Bills owner (even though their lease with Ralph Wilson is until 2022). They've already helped the 49ers, and are looking to help the Chargers. Bogus, not even the League wants to help the Raiders. Yet the Raiders and A's have the crappiest stadium in their respective leagues, and it is the only 2 sport stadium in the nation. Indication is that the Raiders may be moving to LA, and use Dodger Stadium as a temporary home.
The bottom line is this, Mark Davis needs more than a highly regarded football consultant as a GM. At this point in the Raiders Organization, no highly regarded consultant would want to come.
Jones - What exactly is being done? Raiders hired an interim coach last week. How does that improve the direction of this franchise? It’s another step backwards.
Your stepping stone HC theory presupposes McKenzie will make better decisions. So far, that just hasn't happened. He will have to hire another coach in 2015 (which Mark Davis stated he will be more directly involved in that process - for lack of confidence in his GM!)
Your dialogue is rife with excuses and conjecture, yet you blast me for citing the simple facts. McKenzie’s missteps and the team’s record speak for itself.
And you want us to believe in an industry of billion dollar franchises, the Raiders don’t have access to competent professionals? Really?
Nate - I agree. A top level HC may want to be directly involved in the GM hiring process.
And there were three inexperienced people at the top of the Raiders Org if you include Mark Davis.
You want me to walk you through everything, all the time. NYR, you are limited and not worth my time. See ya when you actually have an ability to reason. Won't be holding my breath...good luck.
"A top level HC may want to be directly involved in the GM hiring process"
This quote is hilarious....now DINGBAT wants to hire a HC who will help hire a GM. LMFAO. Then the same dork complained when the last regime ran everything backwards....dude, you are lost.
And who is it you want to hire the NEW HC before the GM? Mark? LMFAO...you are not too smart, that is for sure.
No, Jones, I'm LMFAO. You swore to leave this blog and never return, only to troll and post here as Anon, actually changing and even softening some of your dialogue so none of us would know it was you. Now you're back in you're full attack form.
Congratulations! You have sunk to a new personal low.
Just like the Raiders, you have lowered the bar.
Cheers!
that's all you got....yeah, I made it such a mystery it took everyone all of about 2 posts to know it was me. You want to discuss Raiders? Fine, obviously you can't hang so now who is attacking whom? You are very limited and you just got exposed, AGAIN ...LMFAO
I've been talking Raiders, Jones. I don't care if you agree with me. That's the beauty of this forum. Honestly, I'm happy to carry a more friendly discourse with you. I prefer to keep things civil. We are all Raiders fans and want the best for the team.
You're correct when you say I don't understand why you still believe McKenzie is the right guy. I hung on as long as I could but things have gotten too ridiculous. There's no longer the appearance of a plan.
We all wanted to believe in McKenzie but, in hindsight, perhaps Davis shortcut the GM hiring process and should have reached out to other sources. Confidence is waning with even the most staunch supporters. Even Mark Davis says he will take a bigger role... coming from a guy that acknowledges his own limitations wrt football.
Raiders are in a very bad place right now, arguably worse than where AL left the team. Three more years with no stadium deal, fired HC 4 weeks into a season, lame duck/interim coaching staff, and the need for severe changes across the roster. Not to mention the jury is still out on McKenzie.
It’s hard (really, impossible) to imagine we were destined to reach this low point.
Forget it, NY. It's very hard to argue with the "facts" that JONES makes up.
If we are in a position where Mark Davis is finding a new GM and/or involved in the hiring a new HC with Reggie gone or still on board, we could sink even lower in 2015.
Who is Mark Davis going to rely on to provide sound judgment and take the reins of a thorough, exhaustive search? Some consultant? A third party outsourcing firm? An old Raider relic?
To put it bluntly, what viable plan is there that anyone can foresee whereby the Raiders secure a top level executive to build this cluster fuck from the ground up?
My Bottom Line: We have no one in the organization qualified and capable to do the job at hand. We have ZERO leadership in the building.
"McKenzie's mixed drafting history, handling of the quarterback situation and free-agency approach this year are causes for concern."
This piece lays it out straight: http://cbsprt.co/1uEgjCq
Personnel was supposed to be McKenzie’s forte, yet it’s been an area of weakness since he joined the Raiders.
Measuring dollars to pass ratio, trades that brought Flynn and Schaub to the Raiders rank with some of the worst moves AL ever made.
CJ your are 100% correct. The last time the Raiders had leaders was 2002-2003. That is why Mark needs to make a radical game changing move and open his wallet for a proven NFL name. I can only hope its Gruden because it is the one thing that could actually generate some excitement once again.
RT in reading the CBS article I think you can pin point why Reggie needs to go. The 2013 draft is a disaster (can you imagine Star or Richardson with Alonso). Combined with his FA signings Reggie has not improved the team.
Seriously look at the list of FA its amazing that Reggie has not signed one high quality starter ever. Never mind the debacle that is Flynn/Schaub. He could have broken the bank for one impact player Talib, Revis etc and it would have been a better move than every other signing combined.
Sandy
RT, that was a great article. I re-emphasize some points that it made, that Reggie was brought in more for the deconstruction of salary issues. It is what he did in Green Bay.
I think that is why it is of extreme importance that if Mark Davis keeps Reggie, he gets a HC that is going to be high imapct that will work with Reggie on the talent end (Harbaugh). As you can tell, I'm hoping Harbaugh leaves the 49ers after this season. I would love to have him as our HC. The only reason why he didn't come work for us is because Al Davis didn't want to relinquish control over the roster. Doing this will keep Reggie as Football Operations Manager, while the Head Coach acts as the Head Scout for the roster.
Although Ndamukong Suh will be an intriguing Free Agent, I'm not sure I'd want him. I think Terrence Cody (DT, Baltimore) is better as well as Cory Peters and Gerald McCoy. All who will be free agents, and could get possibly cheaper to fill depth issues.
You guys are a broken record...and I think the record goes like this.....wheels on the bus go round and round...round and round....so now the parrots are pulling articles from SEE-B-S....to say...see, we are right, they even said it on see b s...the hamster wheel is getting very squeaky.
When the guy blames McKenzie for Palmer...you know it's just another piece of trash from some random media guy. But go ahead, jump on the national press train...they don't know anything about the Raiders and this guy just scratched the surface of what is going on...just like the guy who supplied the link. No surprise you agree with it.
Raider Nate are you serious about keeping Reggie. A GM is supposed to find the talent like Balke. Which is how it works in San Fran.
An accountant could "deconstruct" the roster which from my view seems to be Reggie code speak for how get worse as a team.
Mark was supposed to hire a GM not a cap buy who most normal teams have three or four of and they tend to be quants who don't get paid anywhere near what a GM does.
Don't advocate for a guy who has found at most a handful of guys with decent potential in 3 years. That is reason for dismissal with cause.
The mere mention of this Head Scout idea of yours is a defacto admission that Reggie is not capable of building a roster.
Sandy
I love the last 30 seconds of that vid...he starts to LOSE it and shows what a phony he is. Yeah, real good article, man, you guys are HILARIOUS.
It doesn't matter who is the writer of one article or another. The story is the same.
The Raiders are lost, and nobody is at the helm.
And it's frightening to think this could actually get worse before it gets better.
SCAR
Sparano is no Parcells, but he IS an upgrade from Dennis Allen. Let's see what the Raiders do this sunday. Maybe play with Fire? Motivated? Granted, these professionally payed football players should be able to get fired up on their own, but to think that coaches can't fine tune the motivation or give the players a lift is absurd.
Will the play calling on both sides of the ball improve?? Again, I expect an improvement based purely on different philosophies of the head coach.
Go Raiders!
P.s. I read all the banter back and forth on this blog,,and it would be a breath of fresh air, if the comments never got personal, or there wasn't any name calling...My 2 cents...
SCAR
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