Five Postgame Takes
1. Our offense puts the offense in offensive.
2. When you're down by a touchdown and you have 11 seconds left on the 41 yard line, you probably don't want to run around for eight seconds and then throw a ball to the five yard line. Just saying. Plenty of games have been won or tied on Hail Marys in the endzone. None have been won on the five yard line with no time left. Work backward from that fact and call your plays accordingly.
3. This is the worst rushing team in the history of the Oakland Raiders. It's enough to make you pine for the days of Justin Fargas and LaMont Jordan in the 2-14 season of 2006. Maurice Jones-Drew is averaging 2.2 yards per carry.
4. Our offensive line stinks, our running backs have no future upside, and our wide receivers are middling at best. That's all.
5. We are being conditioned by many in the media and some in the Raider Nation to believe that 0-9 (and 16 straight losses) is actually part of a winning "process." Which is bullshit. When you embark on a rebuilding program, bumps on the road are expected. But when you're three years into that program, the bird's eye view should show steady progress, especially after two full drafts and a free agency period flush with cash. Yet the Raiders are going downhill, on a road paved with flimsy excuses. We are being conditioned to accept a 2-14 or 1-15 season. And what then? Then 4-12 becomes "progress" next year, and the next year we maybe we get back to 8-8, and then in year six or seven or eight into this rebuilding we actually achieve a winning record? Not acceptable.
Weekly haiku:
Five seconds into
the game, fumble, welcome to
16 straight losses
posted by Raider Take at 6:35 PM
72 Comments:
I'm in disbelief that this iconic franchise that was once billed as "The Winningest Team in All of Professional Sports" has come to this. I remember as a kid, keeping track of that stuff, including the records against other NFL teams. At one point they had a winning record against every team but one or two. Not to mention the unbelievable MNF W-L record.
That's all we have at this point. The glorious history.
I don't know whether to cry or be pissed.
I keep saying, next year it will turn. But it never does.
The back-to-back 8-8 seasons were a glimmer of hope. A tie breaker away from the playoffs, with a proven veteran QB on the roster in Palmer. Instead, McKenzie comes in and dismantles everything. Everything! Instead of renovating the house and keeping the good pieces, he just bulldozes the whole house. This, after saying that the team wasn't far away from being a playoff team.
We know what's happened since:4-12, 4-12, 0-10.
That's not an upward trend.
Say what you will about some of the young, rookie talent, but can you honestly say that it was the genius of the GM? Or was it a no brainer? Picked Mack and Carr just fell in his lap in the 2nd. He pretty much blew his first draft and we know his record in free agent signings is suspect.
I can't say I trust this guy with the #1 pick next year.
My hope is that Davis sells, a new stadium is built, and someone comes in to be president and hires a proven GM and a proven college or NFL HC.
Judging by the last decade though, any of those hopes are a lot to ask for.
The Raiders played a tough game, but at the end of the day it's still another loss.
If winless Reggie is the GM after this season, the Raiders will go 0-16 again next year.
Sounds like an overstatement ? So be it.
But I believe it will be true.
Hut, hut, Haik'!!! R.T. is spot-on, Justin Fargo days seem sweet, though the clowns drive on...
Fargas, damn the auto-text. Go Oak... for those who enjoy spoiler - ball, well, maybe there's a reason to believe... it's all they got!
Yep, after that embarrassing start... Isn't Rivers the most annoying competitor ever? Well, not ever, but, he's up there... up there with that guy we miss, Jeff George!
100% Spot on... new regime 2015, thrn, 2016...
It's pretty much been the consensus that McKenzie hit one of his three drafts mostly because players fell into his lap.
In free agency McKenzie is all BAD! Raiders would do well to say goodbye to most or all McKenzie's free agents.
It's pretty obvious Sparano isn't the answer at HC. Olsen just keeps getting worse. Surprisingly, Tarver has held his ground. Partly because Mack is as good as advertised. Also, Raiders secondary got better when Rodgers went down, but they still need to sit Brown... the second member of Reggie's dynamic FA CB duo.
With the exception of Jackson, who's injured, there's nobody on the Raiders O-line I would keep. Yet, McKenzie made Barnes a lock for next year. Wiz is a FA and I'm not sure I'd bring him back. He gave up a sack and several pressures and was part of two fumbles yesterday. Howard is this year's failed project on the O-line... seems like there's one every year.
There's no reason to believe Thursday's game won't be more of the same disaster we saw yesterday.
The coaching of this team is just as atrocious as Reggie's building the team.
Rumors are the 49ers are not going to renew with Harbaugh, and he's coming across the bay. I really hope so, because I want a real fiery coach that is not going to take crap from players. If we cannot get him, we will be stuck with someone like Tom Coughlin. Ew!
I want the Raiders to hire real coaches. To open up the wallet, get a fiery, red-ass coach, with good support, and get after it.
With the first overall pick of the 2015 Draft, the Raiders select Todd Gurley. No brainer after our leading rusher has 393 yards total for the season.
I swear to God, the next Donco fan I see, I'm going to punch in the pu$$.
Raider Nate 75
I am on board with Harbaugh if possible. However given the low value of RBs I think spending a high 1st or any 1st on a rb would be a big mistake. Not to mention Gurley tore his ACL on Sat.
Raiders need to trade down with whoever wants Mariotta and get eh best available. I would be fine with DL, WR or LT.
The Raiders are awful but perhaps with a stud d-lineman and a could of decent dbs the defense will be competitive.
My question for the group is: Did anyone see the game live. I am generally happy with CArr but I am starting to wonder in some respects Was there WRs open yesterday or just no separation. I am sorry 172 yards passing on 34 attempts is piss poor, Olson and no running game or otherwise
Regards
Sandy
SCAR
The offense and everything about it is putrid. McGloin did better then this. Don't give me stats. When is the last time Carr threw a meaningful td? His progressions are ok, he won't trust his pocket, confusing an o- line that wasn't that good to begin with, he isn't attempting to stretch the defense, choosing dumpoffs. I just think Carr should step up and into whatever pocket is there and not backpedal so freakin much. Letting Jennings go and keeping Mcfadden and signing MJD was a colossal mistake. Murray is good, but probably doesn't know all his assignments yet, but its still inexcusable to not give Reese carries knowing how bad the rb's are. The offensive line? Start eating red meat or something, get nasty! Do they have personal pride at least? Not one game has the O-line let the team get on its back for a shot at a win. Coaching is a problem. Bad coaching, bad players,,, who is the unifying factor?? Yup,,,Reggie McKenzie.
The D has pride, talent and believes in and is executing on the game plan, and might still win the Raiders a game on its own. Good job yesterday.
Thursday games are crapshoots because of the short rest. The offensive line needs to man up, because Carr is a rookie who is regressing and the defense and special teams are fighting each and every game
SCAR
Sandy - Chargers seemed to blitz ever down, regardless of the circumstance (at least it appeared so the way the Raiders O-line crumbled on every play). Carr was under pressure all day. He actually stepped away from it several times.
The O-line is as bad as it gets. Any other QB would have league-leading sacks this year. It's to Carr's credit he only has about 10 sacks.
This team is horrible, and it's badly coached... really beyond description.
Still, Woodson is a one-man show in the secondary. He made like 14 tackles yesterday. And Mack had two more tackles for losses.
I agree Carr needs to throw down field more, but it's impossible to tell if Olsen is dictating otherwise, or if the WRs simply never get open... which is entirely possible.
When he does throw, his arm strength and accuracy are sometimes very impressive. The guy has tools. He's a rookie and needs a better cast around him (coaches and players!).
I believe Carr will be fine.
Carr is no different then any other QB. He needs time to throw. A running game to lean on. And WR's that get open consistantly.
But all the, 3 and outs, are alarming.
Murray actually ran the ball well. 4 carries for 41 yrds. Why not give him 25 carries a game.
Oh, I forgot. The Raiders will never figure it out.
NY I agree with you Carr's quick release and sliding in the pocket has helped saved some sacks. I agree we need to give him the benefit of the doubt and see what he does with some weapons next year etc. That being said I am supportive but he has not wowed me.
I wonder when Reggie's going to show his ugly face and meet with the press and try and explain what has happened. He will probably blame it on Al.
Regards
Sandy
If the players around the QB don't do their jobs, it's tough for the QB to perform. Look at P Manning and RGIII yesterday.
By that standard, Carr has probably over-achieved in 2014. He has no help... he's all by himself out there.
I'm a Carr fan, but not so sure you don't draft Mariota and let them fight it out in camp and pre-season. It's the most important position on the team and Mariota looks like a stud. Then maybe trade one later. I still like to keep McGloin as a quality backup.
On the OL question, I'm not sold on whether it's all them or McFadden's lack of vision. I'd give more carries to Murray and see what happens. Even to MJD since I don't think he's had enough touches to say for sure if he's done. To me, it looks like Reece is part of the problem - drops, no significant runs, and haven't seen him make a decent block in a while. He's either underachieving or was always overrated.
Sparano is a cool, no nonsense guy, but you have to wonder about him, particularly since he's the OL coach. He sponsored the Howard at G move and if there are holes there and the RB isn't finding them, he can give someone else touches. Not to mention never challenging the defense downfield. With the offense-friendly rules, you're stupid not to try several times a game.
Good points, X. Carr is accurate enough to make some things happen downfield and, even before the rule changes, throwing long has always provided opportunity for PI calls.
Listen, 10 games in, you don't expect receivers to run into each other on routes, nor for the team to gain only 15 yards or less rushing in the first half of three consecutive games.
Something is fundamentally and severely wrong with coaching. Sparano is part of the problem; not the solution.
Save an extremely short list of young players, the Raiders need to completely clean house, again; only this time starting with McKenzie.
Mark Davis should be interviewing consultants to start that process immediately.
NY
I think Mark needs to find an elite coach and then with that coach agree on a new GM. It seems in today's NFL that is the pecking order. Did you read Tim Kawakami Talking Points the past few days it speaks in depth on this subject.
Bottom line though REggie needs to be gone asap
Regards
Sandy
Just check out some of these individual RB stats from teams that won this past week.
Cincy-Hill, 27-152 yrds.
Chefs, Charles, 20-159 yrds.
Bears, Forte, 26-117 yrds
Texans, Blue, 36-156 yrds
Pitt, Bell, 33- 204 yrds.
Wow. I never even heard of some of these guys.
I would love to see what Carr could do with a RB that could go for 150 yrds, or more in a game.
Do you think we will ever live to see this day ?
It seems other teams, even ones with losing records, can figure out how to mount a rushing attack. Why can't the Raiders ?
Fundamentals, and the lack thereof, all point back to coaching, not the players. No separation by the WRs from the DBs is a fundamental issue that has continued for 4 years now. RBs not seeing the running lane is a fundamental issue with the RB and the OLine. Overshooting the gap defensively is a fundamental issue. Not getting pressure on the QB is a fundamental issue. The lack of offensive scoring is a fundamental issue. These are high school football coaching mistakes! It boggles my mind at how these guys have a job in the NFL. Look at the video on CSN of Bill Romonowski going off on the coaching staff!
With that said, this leads to the big part of the problem for the Raiders; the coaches know they will not be back next year, so they are not putting the team in a position to win. That was clearly seen when they pulled Murray out of the game after showing the team he can run. I'm surprised they haven't pulled Carr, but when he doesn't have the help around him, he's made ineffective.
The Raiders for that matter, I think are frustrated by the coaching staff, and their play shows it. It is time for the Raiders to get a real coaching staff again. Jim Harbaugh, Hue Jackson II, Todd Bowles, Jon Gruden, someone with tenure and who is going to demand and coach the best out of the players.
I swear, the more I talk about this the more angry I get. This isn't rocket science, it starts with leadership, which apparently the Raiders are currently void of from the front office through the coaching staff.
It starts with Mark Davis. He seems wishy washy at best through this period. He needs to demand more from McKenzie. I thought he stated last year that he was pissed off and demanded better results. What happened? Did he change his mind?
Nate, I don't think coaches are sabotaging the games. I just think they are over their heads.
If McKenzie is allowed to pick our next HC, I fear we are in for more of the same.
Hey NY,
Let me clarify, I don't think the coaches are sabotaging the games either, but I don't think they are doing their best to better the team, and demand the players do their best. I think they are coaching in a passive way, instead of helping the team be more aggressive, and put them in a position to take what they want. They are game planning to play it safe. That is what I mean by not putting (or coaching) the team to be in a position to win.
Browns just waived Ben Tate. The Raiders should pursue and cut Jones-Drew and McFadden. Just sayin'.
Tate has $1M in guaranteed money in the bank. I doubt he's itching to be a tackling dummy for Raiders' opponents while decimating his career yards per carry avg.
"They are game planning to play it safe."
True and tragic at the same time. 0-10 teams should never play it safe. It should be the law... to keep players from becoming complacent.
Taking chances - like going on 4th and inches from mid-field - is a sure way to engage and perhaps fire up your players. Not doing it lends to your argument, Nate.
Raiders coaching remains pathetic! It doesn't matter who's in charge. Just more of the same sh*t.
Less than two days to the next embarrassment.
WR Jason Avant was released from the Panthers. Make some noise Raiders!
Ahh, nope, gonna be complacent looking at the positives in a winless season.
You know, looking back at the beginning of the season; I was thinking the Raiders could pull off a 9 win season with the talent we had, but was realistically thinking maybe 6 because of the coaching staff (I had no confidence in the staff).
I criticized Pro Football Talk for having the Raiders at #32 in their preseason rankings, and talked my junk that the Raiders were going to prove them wrong. As well, I took my lumps for expressing my high opinion of the Raiders.
Now I continue to take my lumps from my non-Raider friends who tend to kick ya when you're down. All of this has left me with a sour taste in my mouth, and I am bent. It is difficult enough living in a different state than where your home is (I was born and raised in California, and it is and always will be my home). Let alone when your team is playing like crap and the likes of Cowboys/Texans fans are laughing at you.
I challenge any Raiders owner, GM, or coach, maybe all of them, to come to where I am, and help me explain to these bozos why you think you are a better team than 0-10. Because clearly you are not coaching or managing the team like they are better than that.
I'm reading the news waiting to see if Mark comes back to San Antonio, and if he does, I will be going there to see if I can get a chance to talk to him face to face, and get his take on the team and get a new perspective.
I forgot to mention, Pats Rb, Gray, went 29 for 199 yrds rushing in win.
Give Carr this kind of running attack, and lets see what happens.
Nate...hard to imagine Raiders can start to build a winner now off the waiver wire.
NY..yes, 2 losses in one week. Should make winless Reggie proud.
About all of those teams with the big rushing games...
The Vikings lost the best back in the NFL, Adrian Peterson. They suck. Yet they're 11th in rushing in the NFL. The Lions lost Calvin Johnson for a month and hardly missed a beat. The Browns lost one of the best receivers in the NFL, Josh Gordon, to suspension this year, but last I heard, Brian Hoyer had the best completion percentage in the NFL on downfield passes.
There's a myth that you need STARS at the WR and RB positions in order to produce. You don't. Today's NFL is geared to generate offensive production.
Yet the Raiders can't do ANYTHING on offense. You almost have to work to be that bad on offense in today's NFL. We are dead last in total points, total yards, and rushing.
This cannot be a part of any reasonable "process."
RT,
Interesting what you point out about the Lions and Vikings. Why don't you take it one step further? The Lions seem to be great because of an awesome qb and an even more awesome defense, lead by a strong d-line.
If stars on offense are not the key to success in the NFL. What is?
Regards
Sandy
Seems like the Raiders have been "trying" to be this bad for a long time.
It starts with the GM. Look at the stupidity and incompetence behind building the O-line.
The offseason was a calamity of errors at LT, and the project to move Howard from T to G was a disaster from the start.
Wiz has more than once this year made game-changing errors at C and his run- and pass-blocking are both highly suspect.
The jury may still be out on Jackson, who is a prototype for his position, but I think Watson's day may have come and gone.
When you add in bad coaching and McKenzie's retaining McFadden and signing MJD to be our star RBs, you get a sense of the separation that exists between the Raiders and virtually every team in the NFL.
Shame on Mark Davis for sitting back and doing nothing. Firing Dennis Allen was only the tip of the iceberg.
Sandy, I think that great coaching and quarterbacking with a strong offensive line and COMPETENT weapons can get it done. Would I like to have an overwhelming talent like LeSean McCoy or Dez Bryant? Yes. But it's not vital in today's NFL. A undrafted free agent and failed standup comedian just ran for 199 and 4 touchdowns for the Patriots.
Defense is important. I love a strong defense. But you need to be able to score in today's NFL. Our defense played well on Sunday. It didn't matter.
We could never compete in a shootout game. Why? Because we can't shoot. At all.
I am trying to figure out how we can be this bad on offense. Are McFadden and Jones-Drew THAT bad? Are Holmes, Jones, Moore and Company THAT bad? Is our offensive line THAT bad? Is our scheming and playcalling THAT bad? They must be, especially if we believe that Carr is good.
IMO, nothing we're seeing is for lack of effort. Everyone appears to be trying. So I guess it's largely a product of poor decision-making with respect to personnel, coaching and playcalling.
2014 was toast after Week 4. Raiders should stop pretending. Time to wipe the slate clean. Focus on the younger talent and bring in free agents.
It was actually fortuitous that Woodley went on IR. That forced the Raiders sign and rotate other players on defense.
McKenzie should be picking guys off other "good" teams' practice squads to tryout on our 53-man roster. I'm sure there are teams with depth at positions that create such opportunity for the Raiders. Why aren't we taking advantage?
The people that make these decisions in Oakland must be comatose.
RT, my only point about the running game was, Raiders need a lot to get better. But they have to start somewhere.
Seems to me a strong rushing attack accomplishes 2 things.
one, it can only enhance Qb Carr's game. Two, it keeps the defense off the field,(see Cowboys).
Also, if unknown Rb's, on some teams with losing records, can muster a running game. How hard can it be ?
Well, for the Raiders, it seems as close as the moon.
Yeah, Raider00, I'm only trying to reinforce your point. Look at all of those teams with non-star running backs, some of them bad teams, who find a way to get it done on the ground.
Look at the Jags, they've gone through numerous RBs this year, and finally settled on a former QB, Denard Robinson, as their lead runner and he's racking up 100+ yard games with TDs. And that's with a complementary cast of rookie Blake Bortles at QB and guys named Allen Hurns and Cecil Shorts at WR.
There's bad, and then there's Raiders bad. How can we be this bad on offense?
"There's bad, and then there's Raiders bad."
Well stated, RT. Sad but so true.
How can Olsen, McKenzie and the rest of the “bad” architects still be employed?
Of course it's not be feasible to fire everybody, but please make some noise, Mark Davis. This can't be acceptable.
It's no wonder Raiders can't complete a stadium deal. LA is probably cringing at the thought the Raiders might bring this show to its market.
I remember some folks discussing the notion of the NFL stepping in when AL was in charge.
This is much worse.
J-Mac weighs in on McKenzie's free agents...
http://tinyurl.com/ks9zfgg
Pulled this from the comments section of Corkran's blog:
"The pick the Texans got for Schaub was used on Alfred
Blue. He had 156 yd on Sun. Raiders have 153 yds past 3.5 games."
RT,
I have to politely disagree with you. Defense does matter.
If you don't have a guy like Rogers, Brees, Luck, Manning at QB---please don't tell me Carr is one of these you have to be top notch on D.
This year is a great example. The lions who have a very good qb in Stafford same with Zona and Palmer are doing well because of their superior Ds. In fact look at the Saints who do have an elite QB their D is so bad it is has hurt the team.
Now I think Carr could be a top 15 qb but not a top 5 and in the absence of having a Calvin Johnson around him a strong D can bridge the gap to success.
I think the Raiders are a stud d lineman and cb away from being above average on D.
Regards
Sandy
Go NY Go. I love how your venting. What about the fact Reggie is too spineless to be interviewed for the past 6 or 7 weeks
Give me some color on that
Regards
Sandy
What's there to say? If I were Reggie, I'd avoid the media too. 10 Weeks into his 3rd season, the results speak loud and clear.
It seems that most of us agree that Carr is a foundation piece to a team that is at rock bottom.
In my mind, the primary focus MUST be on building a top level OLine. The OLine to me is the glue to a good offense for obvious reasons.
The thinking should be to use BOTH the draft and free agency to build a top OLine.
I honestly believe that the Raiders should rebuild the team from the inside-out. Both OLine & Dline need to be priority 1 and 1A respectively.
Kansas City Star talking smack:
http://tinyurl.com/nq9vrmg
It opens with...
"Bagging on the Raiders is like shooting fish in a barrel. Way too easy."
That would piss me off if it wasn't true.
The Raiders have to bring in quality coaching before they can begin to look at bringing in quality players.
The coaching staff we have right now are at a loss to "fix the problems" like Dennis Allen was. Yet, the problems stem in how they are game planning. Our current "interim" Head Coach is content with "looking at the positives" instead of looking at what is broken and how to fix it and improve. Tell ya the truth, I'm tired of hearing the current Raiders' coaching staff talk. They need to go, Reggie needs to go. In the words of Bill Callahan, "They need to blow this place up and start over."
It is obvious that this coaching staff cannot see the problem is themselves. Again, they are not coaching and game planning with the talent they have; they are game planning according to their favorite scheme, talent be damned. That is mostly reflected in the running game and our offense. Time to get a new staff....AGAIN!
They said it when they fired Dennis Allen, how can you expect to change things if you keep doing the same thing without making corrections? That applies to the whole friggin' organization. How can you expect things to change if you continue hiring crap coaches who don't know what they are doing? Time to hire experienced, big-gunned coaching staff.
Once that happens, the players will come because they want to play for the coach.
LOL, just dropped by...you guys are fucking idiots. Sandy says Reggie is shit, then explains how the D is 2 players away from being very decent. So who got those players?
Then we have people whining that the coaches suck....well DUHHHH. Why are all the coaches contracts running out? Because this is when the table is set for an UPGRADE to be hired...and why can an upgrade be hired? BECAUSE THE TABLE IS SET FOR IT. When Reggie took over, the table wasn't even set for a Pop Warner coach. So Reggie has been cleaning up the mess, trying to get some good youth to build with so when the time was ready for a NEW HC, the team would have some assets and some stability to attract a good HC. But don't let these facts kick you in the ass....because obviously the dolts on this board are so stupid, they can't even see what they are looking at. That is why there are only about 3 or 4 different posters on here. Because you are all dumb and pat each other on the back for being dumb. Who wants to be a part of that?
You know who.
SCAR
Jonesy,,, I have agreed with much of what you have written in the past, but the facts are the Raiders are 0-10, and nobody was ready for that in year 3. Reggie whiffed in Free agency. I tend to think the glass is half full even with an 0-10 team. I still think the Raiders have a good shot at winning tonight because of the defense and playing at home, but Reggie deserves the heat.
SCAR
this year is done, it was when Allen couldn't get it done. The focus is on NEXT Year, this season was lost a long time ago. FA, who was there to sign and who would have come to Oakland? AGAIN, the table has to be set for good coaches and good players to come to Oakland again. The last 2 years were wiping the mess off the table, this year was bringing in some good youth via the DRAFT and trying to find something in free agency. Free agency didn't supply much, but, once again, you do NOT build a team through Free agency. It has to be done through the draft, with SOME pieces coming through free agency.
Allen was the setup guy, Next comes the BIG hire. This is what makes or breaks Reggie's stay in Oakland, not if they win 1 or 2 games this year because it means NOTHING for next year. EXCEPT, the Raiders will be at the top of every RD of the draft, giving Reggie leverage to make moves.
the 3 posters on here, keep pounding the "failed FA" drum. Who was there to sign? How can you build a winning team with other teams discards? With a coaching staff that was brought in when no other coaches wanted to even look at Oakland? These are REAL scenarios, to blame Reggie for these scenario's is very short sighted....but what do you expect for the dumbest Raider site on the Net?
You know who
SCAR
I'm on board with the Drafting going on in Alameda(Carr is still a question mark for me), but Reggie's Track record in free agency is bad. There were players to sign this off-season. Since the Raiders and Reggie were building for the future why not overpay and sign three stars that will start for the next 5 years, instead of 8 or nine that might or might not still be on the team next year? That seems short sighted and confusing to me. Was he signing players to win this year or for the future? If Reggie has this grand vision, then he has to and should have conveyed it to the free agents worth their money. That's his job. Maybe Reggie is the reason good players didn't want to come here this year? Do I want Reggie making the choices in free-agency. So far, not based on his track record. We can go round and round. I agree with alot of your thought process, but 0-10 is 0-10. NOBODY gets a free pass with an 0-10 record....NOBODY
SCAR
Greg Papa was just on the Rich Eisen show. He mentioned that he was with Mark Davis 3 years ago after Al passed, and Mark told him that he had a GM coming, and it would take 3 years to be more competitive. 3 years later, the Raiders are worse.
63 rushing yards per game, the lowest since 1946 (Lions). Papa blamed the O-line, but at the same time criticized Olsen and Sparano. He said at least Tarver was starting to open it up.
I disagree about building the team is a one sided thing like the draft or free agency. It takes both. The Raiders filled their needs with a balance of draft and free agency under Allen/Gruden. You use the draft to create depth, which allow those guys to grow into the position; while bringing in veterans who can show them how to improve on what the coaches are teaching them, and what they already know.
As far as Free Agents we could have signed last season. any of these guys at WR: DeSean Jackson, Golden Tate, Anquan Boldin, Steve Smith.
Any of these guys at Tackle: Jared Veldheer, Michael Oher, Zach Strief. Alex Mack at Center.
Justin Forsett, Ben Tate, Knowshon Moreno at RB. Lamar Houston, Julius Peppers at DE. BJ Raji, Linval Joseph, Fioli Moala at DT. Darrelle Revis, Walter Thurmond, Charles Tillman, Aqib Talib at CB. Joe Mays, Karlos Dansby, Jameel McLain at MILB.
There were a lot of Free Agents that the Raiders could have signed to help this season, but even though we had the $$, Reggie did not open the wallet to bring these guys in. Most of these guys would not have broken the bank to bring in, a handful would have.
But like you said Jones, who would have come to Oakland? We will never know until the Raiders get a real coaching staff.
Wow, Jones. "I-told-you-so...!" Really?!
Jonesy, once again resetting the Raiders clock to success. Soon, it will coincide with the next predicted perihelion of Halley's Comet; 2061.
Brilliant!
BECAUSE, that is how the last Owner got in trouble, long contracts that overpay...come on, didn't you learn a damn thing? Reggie didn't tie himself to those contracts that may or MAY NOT pan out. Being stuck with long term, over paid contracts is the KILLER.
Reggie will build with the draft. He signed Vets who had a winning pedigree, this was to try and develop a structure for the youth. He signed them to contracts that WILL NOT create cap trouble and can be cut, in most cases, with little or no cap hit. He did this so when the youth came in, there was a standard set. I know this is hard for the dumbest Raider site....but I will try and help you to understand.
As far as naming players that other teams signed....look at the teams they signed with, does Oakland fit that? NO IT DOESN'T and that is why the top free agents will ALWAYS sign with a contender. Fucking STUPID. If you fuckers ever get a clue....that will be an amazing day.
Guess
the only clock is that of the process....never before in sports history has this scenario played out. With no access to the PLAN, hard to tell the exact time it would pan out. But anyone with a brain can see the process and the goal that is being played out. Keep crying about this year, too bad, shit happens. Can't stop the process, have to continue on with it, blow it up now and the team is screwed for a lot longer. I know this is over your head, but at least try.
Your Teacher
Nate....look at what happened with Allen and Gruden.....the team dived when the vets were shot...and why is that? BECAUSE NO YOUTH TO FILL THE VOID. You build through the draft, this is widely known throughout the sports world. You guys still have Al Davis syndrome = WHAT CAP? Just retool, no need to rebuild...etc. It doesn't work that way, YOU HAVE TO BUILD THROUGH THE DRAFT. ESPECIALLY if your team has the reputation throughout the League as a place to avoid. You guys need to get your heads out of your asses. Look at the bigger picture, this year was lost a long time ago...so what is the SMART THING TO DO? Maybe look towards next year? Ya think? How can next year be improved? New HC? New talent through a killer draft with the #1 overall? THINK, please, for once.
Your best crtitic
SCAR
All this setting up for the future. Maybe Mark Davis is using Reggie McKenzie to set up for his real GM.
The Record shows 0-10. The eyeball test shows a weak offense, a defense that competes, and a team that is outgunned and outcoached, but doesn't quit.
ULtimately, you might be ok with 0-16, but I'm not. Constantly trying for the #1 draft pick every year is a losers proposition in my eyes. your always talking about next year, getting your ass kicked this year.
If the Raiders slap around the Chiefs tonight, I'll say good things about the 2014 Oakland Raiders. If they lose tonight I'll keep critisizing the Oakland Raiders 2014 team.
SCAR
Who says I am ok with it? It is what it is, not going to cry over it. Nobody accepts the losses, but it has to be done. Taking steps back to compete down the road....there isn't any shortcuts.
Eyeball test shows Reggie can draft. Now Reggie has to hire a good HC and have another very good draft. If he does that, this team is headed for WINS, do you understand? Fuck this year, throw away, the goal is....TO DRAFT WELL, if you do, you won't be drafting 1st EVERY YEAR, do you understand? Should I get out the crayons? THIS YEAR IS DONE, who cares, Reggie will own this draft and the Raiders are setting up a youthful and talented team. LOOK, not just for today, look down the road, if you can.
NON-Picture Painter
If Mark fires Reggie....you better get ready for more shit-rope. No GM worth a shit will take the job because Mark hasn't proven himself. Then no HC will take the job....lalalalala....do you guys ever get it?
Play it through, if you think Reggie has had a legitimate shot at finishing the job...you are NUTS. He had to hire a guy who wasn't close to being a HC...why?
Allen took the team to this point, good Drafts and the next HC has some talent which Allen had none. Now we can see a foundation being set...this is what a GOOD HC will look for, not a fucking mess of firings and hirings and who knows what the fuck? STABILITY, Mark HAS TO GIVE REG at least 1 more year...to give him a chance to come close to finishing what he started. DO YOU UNDERSTAND? If he doesn't, he will screw the Raiders and the fans even more than what you perceive today.
Near the end
Even if they beat the Chefs...what will it mean? They won a game? Whooopppeee, what will it mean? It's about next year, this one is DONE.
Hah, hah...Getting worse in year three is all part of a great "plan."
Curious: How many total years do you give Reggie to make the playoffs at this point? Five? Six?
SCAR
I get it. you have given up on this year. Whose fault is that?
You make some interesting points, but you lose me when you say beating the chiefs doesn't mean anything. What will a win mean? uhh, the same thing it will mean next year. Something they don't have this year.
And you really lose me when you say that you will accept 0-16 for the number one draft pick. Next year started as soon as this one ended. These Raiders have to start developing a taste for victory. NO one will give them shit. This is the NFL. They have to work their asses off in the training room. They have to learn in the film room. They have to practice like champions. They have to fight for each and every inch. This year. Today. at 8:25pm. not "next year"
You are selling the future. And when you are selling the future you are never wrong, because it hasn't happened yet.
You have accepted that the Raiders suck this year, but you haven't accepted that Reggie McKenzie is the main architect for the Raiders sucking this year.
SCAR
Jones go crawl back into your hole. You make no sense, you are the only guy on earth who can say 0-10 is progress. Your logic is laughable. Reggie has not done a good job drafting. He has hit on two picks maybe three in 3 years.
Jones I will ask you for the 10th time. When does Reggie need to have a winning record in your small mind? Please for once take your thumb out of your mouth and have the balls to answer the question.
I go with NY next time Haley's comment comes?
Errrrrr - anyone see the latest that MD said?
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/11/20/mark-davis-reggie-mckenzie-has-gotten-us-in-really-good-shape-to-build/
looks like reggie may be staying. i've been a reggie supporter up until this year but dude and his coaching staff have GOT to go. we've gotta blow this thing up yet again and start all over.
in fact, if mark davis can't see what the heck is going on, he needs to sell this damn team to someone who does!
that was me - scorpio who posted that last comment...
SCAR
Gotta disagree with you ano.
Reggie has done a good job in the draft.
But hey, we all have opinions.
SCAR
scar, reggie did a good job in the draft "this year". the other years have been a disaster so far...
SCAR
2013
1. DJ Hayden, CB, Houston
2. Menelik Watson, T, Flordia State
3. Sio Moore, LB, Connecticut
4. Tyler Wilson, QB, Arkansas
6a. Nick Kasa, TE, Colorado
6b. Latavius Murray, RB, Central Florida
6c. Mychal Rivera, TE, Tennesee
6d. Stacy McGee, DT Oklahoma
7a. Brice Butler, WR, San Diego State
7b. David Bass, DE, Missouri Western State
Sooo, disaster?? Brice Butler in the 7th round. Disaster?
Stacy McGee in the 6th. Disaster?
Rivera in the 6th. Disaster?
Murray in the 6th. Disaster?
Sio Moore. Disaster???
Watson and Hayden. Disasters?
SCAR
As SCAR suggests above, maybe McKenzie is a stepping stone to a real GM (like Jones suggested of Knapp as OC, then of Allen as HC -- and apparently the entire roster and coaching staff).
McKenzie's mistakes are piling up fast, and his record is bad even on a scale of futility. We are flirting with all-time consecutive loss streak set by an expansion team almost 40 years ago. That says a lot about where we are and how poorly McKenzie has done.
Reloading next year with another group of aging free agent vets while we wait for McKenzie to draft a roster (hoping we don't lose keys players over time) doesn't sound too appealing to me.
He has to do better in free agency. He is maybe good for 3 starters per year in the draft. 53-man roster with 22 starters and plenty of depth. You do the math!
Scar
I don't understand your post are you saying the 2013 draft was good. I look at it and see one legit nfl starter in Moore. Two guys who are close to bust than starter in Hayden and Watson and bunch of fringe guys at best
Am I missing something?
Regards
Sandy
Let's not forget McKenzie's 4th QB round pick didn't even make the roster. That's a bit unusual. Worse when you consider Matt Flynn was part of the group that beat him out.
SCAR
Sandy, we just need to agree to disagree on when a bust should be considered a bust. You see Hayden as a bust. I don't. You see Watson as a bust. I don't. I see talent taken in the 6th and 7th rounds. you don't.
What exactly do you expect from 2nd year 6th and 7th rounders? I expect players that make the roster, get on the playing field, making plays to help the team compete and win;who are getting better as they learn the NFL. What do you expect?
SCAR
If you plan to build your team thru the draft, there's little room for maybes, and no room for error (e.g., dumping your 4th rd pick).
2013 class still has time, but only Moore has stepped up to this point... Hayden is showing he is getting closer; but can he stay on the field?
P.S. Rivera is a solid receiver.
SCAR
Good question nyraider...
Murray is supposed to get a start tonight? is that right? Maybe the Raiders anemic run game will improve. He ran hard last game for some good yards...
SCAR
Gamenight thread is up, bang it there.
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