Five Postgame Takes
2. Not really. One of the persistent myths being peddled right now is that a season like this is perfectly sensible and a reflection of a job well done by our general manager. Sorry, any rebuilding plan that includes fielding the worst team in the NFL in year three is not a sound plan.
3. Darren McFadden is averaging 3.4 yards per carry this year. He averaged 3.3 yards per carry the previous two years. MJD's average last year was 3.4 yards, and he's now averaging 1.9 years. Why would you or the Raiders expect anything different this year from these guys?
4. When you trade for a guy known for throwing pick-sixes, don't be surprised when one of the first things he does for your team is throw a pick six.
5. According to the broadcasters, Sio Moore told them that Tre Mason doesn't back down from anything, but that "we're going to make him regret that." Then Mason proceeded to score three touchdowns. Moore likely regrets his comments.
Weekly Haiku:
What happens when a
Clown Car meets a runaway
train? Fifty-two nothing.
posted by Raider Take at 2:15 PM
146 Comments:
Hard to wrap your brain around it. How can the Raiders still be this bad?
After today's performance, you have to wonder if the Raiders might consider drafting Mariota or Winston... because Jags put us back in the #1 seed.
That was an ole fashioned beat down. Rams are sure to go on and win the SB after that demonstration.
Raiders playing for the 1st overall, they reclaimed it today. The focus is for next year, this year is done. This is why no rush to get Murray and Streater back in. Team wasn't ready at all, like it didn't even matter.
Playing for the top pick, obviously. When you are down by 28 and you are still running 2 run plays for 2 yrds and then throwing short of the sticks on 3rd down every drive....it's called tanking. All the coaches contracts run out after this year, except sparano, they are gone and the players know it, coaches know it and they are coaching and playing like they know it's all done for this year. Just tank, baby. Got the win on National TV vs KC and with the Hall of Fame players in attendance.....now it's back to JUST TANK, baby.
Guess Who
SCAR
nyraider, the qb situation is one of the elephents in the room...Is Carr any good? But please don't put Winston in the same category as Mariota. Winston is a head case ala Jabustus Russel. Winston is all talent, and no heart. All about the benjamins and not about the wins.
Good lord, I remember when McGloin(who in an alternate reality is a decent manager starting qb)would answer the other team scoring by getting points back for the Raiders. Can we honestly say Carr has shown the capacity to "get it done"? The kid doesn't throw intermediate passes. He just doesn't. It's so bad that I was shocked/impressed that Shaub of all qb's threw a seam pass 20 yards downfield(incomplete), because Carr throws them so infrequently. I cannot honestly look at Carr's stats, without noticing the majority of his yards and TD's are in garbage time. IMO, the only saving grace for Carr is that the Raiders have no running game to speak of. I can't use Olson as an excuse(although he does suck horribly) because McGloin with the same or less talent got more done.
SCAR
SCAR
Jones, does tanking help the young players develop?? Think about that.
Are you saying Carr is Tanking?
If so, I don't want that runt on the Raiders. I want a winner who fights his ass off every single game trying to get a win. We are definitely on opposite sides of the spectrum on this idea of playing every single game like its your last fighting tooth and nail for the win or "tanking."
Imo tanking develops crappy players for this year and the next year too.
If I don't see fire from the players this year for the next 4 games who will be there next, I'd be concerned they wont have it next year either.
SCAR
Don't fight it, SCAR, 52-0 is part of McKenzie's master plan.
Hidden gems in that beat down include Barksdale (relaesed by McKenzie), playing RT for the Rams, and Saffold (contract signed then voided by McKenzie), playing LG.
The Rams O-line looked all-world against the Raiders.
New HC coming in, new coaches all around, more youth coming in, another chance at getting more long range players in Free Agency. I would bet the HC is already been selected or a hand shake deal has been done. It's all about next year, this one is over, now time to position themselves to rule the Draft. That was a lay down game, saw the same thing in London when they quit on Allen. It's a tank job, have seen them before and this is one of them.
Oh...so now letting Saffold get away is one of Reggie's biggest blunders? Barksdale is avg, big deal.
I am saying that Carr has been instructed to play a certain way. Sparano has been instructed to coach a certain way. Olsen has been calling Vanilla, the Defense looked High schoolish. Compared to the Kansas City game...it was like 2 different teams. You can laugh, call me names, I don't care, just letting you know what is going down so you don't cry on your pillow all night...you can thank me later.
SCAR
I wont call you names. I def wont cry on my pillow tonight.
Who are your sources for what you just posted? Are you Reggie McKenzie posting on Raidertake?
Until you can provide sources for what you posted, I'm gonna go with what I saw with my own eyes. a Beatdown that as a fan of the Raiders I never enjoy.
I don't hear 2 time superbowl champ Tuck saying this kinda crap. I dont hear hall of famer Woodson saying his coaches are sabotoging him and his defense...
SCAR
I have proven on this site what I write of, just trying to give you a heads up, if you don't want it, fine. My record on here is good, you can go back and look, I'm telling you again and time will tell if it is true or not.
Players do as they are told, coaches do as they are told, Management tells them how it will be, chain of command, only those at the top know the true plan, like the military. I'm sure the players have a good idea, coaches know it...FOR THE TEAM.
Coaches who will be looking for work because the Raiders will fire them, are deliberately orchestrating awful performances that will hurt their job prospects, because they want to help the team that's firing them get a few slots higher in the draft?
The illogic is staggering.
Maybe with the first pick in the 2015 draft McKenzie can draft a LT.
The illogic is those who believe they are doing all they can to win now. Obviously they are not, this year is done to this Org. Everything points to next year, everything in the thought process points to next year. Time will tell and you will see, see ya.
Who is paying those coaches? You do what your boss tells you. The coaches know they are gone, they know what is happening and will go along with it, do they have a choice? If they don't, then they do not leave on good terms. Olsen already said that Carr will be fine with better players around him....does that sound like a coach who thinks he has a chance at coming back? They are playing out their contracts like a professional should. Do what is asked and finish it out. Another big step will be taken this off season, Reggie's job hinges on it. THIS YEAR IS DONE, got the big win on National TV, now it's tank for the #1 because Reggie will own this draft.
It's happened before and it will happen again
Scar and the rest of the loyal readers here:
Forget Jones inane prattling and let's talk some football.
I am slightly worried about Carr as well. In his defense the wr suck even on TV today they showed there was no separation. He also moves in the pocket well and does not make a ton of names and led a nice game winning drive last week.
All that being said you identified the main knock on him coming out of college not very accurate on the deep and intermediate stuff. He has not produced points or sparked the Raiders on offense this year except the SD game. I think the Raiders are going to have to think real hard about Mariotta.
If Mark does not clean house at the end of the year starting with Reggie that a-hole and then bring in a real leader at coach--Harbaugh would be great so would Gruden, it would be very hard to continue being a dedicated fan.
As a Raider fan of 38 years I feel terribly cheated. Even the last days of Al were never this miserable. There was attempts to bring in real talent by Al. Today when I saw some guy name Thompkins drop a pass I realized the franchise is a disgrace.
Goodnight
Sandy
Can a first round draftee defer to the next team with an offer?
Reggie must go no self respecting coach would work for a guy who put this roster together.
Regards
Sandy
I'm afraid to use the term, "Hit rock bottom", about these Raiders.
Because just when we think things can't get any worse. The Raiders show the world they can stink more then they have ever stunk before.
It's to the point if Raiders come out next week, and lose 70-0, no one would be surprised.
So who do you think L.A. would rahter have back, the Rams, or the Raiders ?
Not sure that's a serious question OTB but it's a real issue and it has threatened to play out for the Raiders before. Remember Michael Crabtree?
Aside from the numerous negative ramifications of this game (and this season) to lame duck coaches and free agents who don't want their careers to end with the 2014 Raiders, there’s also the matter of tickets & merchandise sales, and a stadium deal.
What we witnessed Sunday was a product of three years of rebuilding this team.
Shameful
I agree with Jones (and I'm a different ano).
This was a tank job and anybody who did not see this must be totally blind. I smelled it at the punt, down 0-21 at the STL 37 Yard Line (that is not even a punt at this point of the field when you are UP 21-0!) and I KNEW the moment Mason broke the big run on the next series and Beuerlein was commenting about Moore going left with the block, all the while staring at Mason doing his cut to the right "What is he doing?". Yes, exactly. What he was doing was open up the gap there.
Tank job, ordered by the management, executed by Sparano. Probably to trade away the first overall to SF for Harbaugh.
They won't do this against the AFCW opponents and against the Niners because of the rivalries. If there was one game they could really give away, this was it and this is what you saw yesterday.
I don't think the plan was to go 0-52, it just got out of hand and maybe this was an add-on/fuck you by the players because they were disgusted.
It happened before in the NFL, and it will happen again. It's a business, not College.
-M
These tank job posts are beyond ridiculous. Has the team quit on this season, yes that seems to be the case. Was there a concerted effort and related plan by management and players to loose, that is insane. If it even had a thread of truth to it guys like McKenzie and Sparano would never work again in the NFL.
Sandy
Tank job or no, the Raiders took the worst beat down in this dismal 12 seasons yesterday. Not even the 2-14 Bed-n-Breakfast crew did this.
52 to freaking 0! Let that soak into our brains. To say that this is the plan to get the #1 pick is absurd. McFadden and MJD quit after Week 3 of the Pre Season. Greg Olsen is deplorable, and should never work in the NFL again. Jason Tarver is another douche bag that should not be in the NFL.
I would love to have Jim Harbaugh as our head coach, but I don't think that will happen with Reg as GM. This is the worst freaking feeling in the whole world, seeing the team that you've loved your whole life sink further down the drain season after season.
I think Carr is going to be a good QB. I don't think Olsen or the running game has helped him at all this season. I don't think Mariota. Besides, he is a scheme QB, much like Petty in Baylor. You mess the scheme, he is not a good QB.
I think Defensive pass rusher/tackle, running back, or offensive lineman. I'm leaning more toward Defensive Lineman, as you can sign Ray Rice, and a #1 WR in free agency, depending on if the Raiders can get a quality Head Coach.
Just embarrass us some more, BABY!
Nothing creates a winning culture like tanking to gain a few draft slots! What a load.
Reggie is so bent on gaining a few draft slots that he's orchestrating historic blowouts from the front office and all of the players and lame duck coaches are falling into line, including all those proud vets like Tuck and Woodson, because they'd love the end of their careers to look just like this. In fact, this is just the latest evidence of Reggie's genius, outsmarting the likes of the Buccaneers, Jaguars, and Jets by maneuvering for the top spot in the draft. And on top of all that, he's not just ordering the team to lose, but to lose in such a blowout fashion that it makes the organization look like a joke, hurting its marketability, ticket sales and attractiveness in the coach and free agent market.
Dude's a genius! Ha, ha.
Lol. We're so bad, we could ONLY be this bad if we throw games. Of course, that would be nothing less than scandalous.
Does it bother anyone that our QB of the future got pulled from the game... largely due to his ineffectiveness?
In the larger picture, what HC worth his salt will want to be part of this mess? I don't care where we draft or how much cap we have, the dysfunction in Oakland is still a major setback to this franchise.
I thought there was no way the Raiders could get worse. I was wrong. Was this a tank job? If so, the players couldn't be more convincing.
As a fan, I'm burned out. Every week for 12 years, I muster enthusiasm with dwindling results. Watching how slow the Raiders seemed during this game, it occurred to me that it took rain and mud to slow down an NFL team so that the Raiders could win. Sheesh!
I still think RM has done a decent job on picks. I don't think (anymore) that he has a grasp on coaches or free agents.
The only thing I can come up with for this week's debacle is, the players had pride to play for in NOT becoming the only unwinnable team and now that that's happened, well, no need to fight anymore.
LGR (That was me, the last anon)
RT,
I thought about things today and what made me sad is that the Raiders are so bad I don't even care anymore, I have lost any and all enthusiasm. I used to comb the internet for articles now I can't be bothered with the exception your blog---kudos to you friend.
You know you have hit rock bottom when the only thing left are the memories.
Regards
Sandy
Hard times, indeed, Sandy, but glad you're still hanging around these parts!
It's incredibly frustrating for all of us. And it's hard to find confidence in a process that continues to fail.
There's no question in my mind that Mckenzie can improve this team if he is retained, but by how much and after how many more missteps and bad decisions on his part?
NY all due respect but my grandmother who is 99 could improve this team. I am counting on you to hold the line that REggie must go.
Thanks
Sandy
Sandy, not to worry. If it's my call, your grandmother replaces RM today. I'm just reading the tea leaves and Mark Davis' apparent reluctance (perhaps inability) to facilitate a change.
I hear you NY Mark has been a big big disappointment. Not only in terms of football but business also. We all know a new stadium in Oaktown is a fantasy, so what is Mark waiting for in regards to LA?
Here is one prescription for change and I would like to hear what you guys think. Mark needs to sell at least half the team to someone in LA who will build a stadium. Then you hire a real coach/gm combo like a Gruden or Harbaugh. Instant credibility and leadership. A couple of winning seasons and playing in LA in a new stadium the franchise doubles in value easy.
If they don't do that they are playing in Santa Clara two years from now, which though it would make AL roll over in his grave would be 100x better than the Coliseum
Not sure what Mark is waiting for.
Sandy
Should change the name of this site to Raider Tears.
Keep crying babies, the more you cry now the dumber you look in the future. How can a team look like they did vs KC on National TV, then in the next game look like they can't even complete a 5 yrd pass? THINK, it ain't illegal yet, but by the comments on here, you wouldn't know that.
It's obvious, they want to rule the draft, period. The HC is probably already lined up and just has to sign the deal, waiting for the right time to announce it. You guys are about as deep as a piss puddle.
Your teacher
Mark is waiting for the right deal, at this point, he doesn't have much leverage. The wins and stability have to come 1st. Your clown's idea that he has to fire everyone and start over puts him back at the bottom as far as leverage to gain a new stadium. But don't let those facts get in the way of your 'wonderment'. You guys are the dumbest fucks I have EVER encountered, even worse than the 'crew'. If any of you knew a damn thing, it would be a 1st.
Your Teacher
Now we know why we paid Schuab all those millions, he's the secret "tanking" weapon, ready to throw a pick six whenever needed by management!
Schaub filled out the cap, for those who are clueless. If his salary wasn't taken on, Raiders would have been penalized for missing the cap requirement. But don't let that get in the way of your Raider hating. He also gave a good vet presence for Carr....learning how to be a pro, remember? Funny how you guys think you know what you are looking at, you haven't a clue. This year didn't work out, doesn't mean the process has failed, just means that the process has to continue through.That will be a new HC and staff with more talent coming via the draft.
Your Teacher
nyraider, yes that was a serious question, thanks for the info! I don't remember the Crabtree connection, but I'll definitely google it. Another thing I was serious about two years ago, and still am, is the prediction of not being over .500 until the year strikes 2016. Just a prediction that I hope occurs that soon...! Go Oak.
Haiku #2
fifty two to zip
oakland got crunched like a chip
someone pass the dip
...not to mention paying Scahub millions while foregoing far more meaningful signings, like Jennings or Veldheer, or a WR.
Brilliant!
So let's recap:
The process failed miserably in Year 1. Then Year 2 became a scapegoat for Year 1, while Year 3 was all about promise. Promise blew up by Week 4. Now we’re tanking games.
Meanwhile, ownership and management have gone absentee, presumably waiting out this miserable season to make more promises they can’t keep.
Even if McKenzie can right this ship, the path he’s chosen has presented one failure after another.
The sad truth probably is that Mark Davis doesn’t know what to do.
Raiders have been waiting over a decade for a modicum of success to demonstrate they are a viable and marketable commodity worthy of a new stadium.
Based on their continued failures, it’s possible Raiders can’t climb out of their hole anytime soon and will have to wait out the A’s lease before something can be determined regarding a new stadium.
Perhaps one way to stop the bleeding is for Davis to sell controlling interest.
I agree with you NY, if Mark does not make some solid and decisive moves both in terms of football and business next year he should sell the team.
In fact selling a controlling interest to someone who can put together the financing for a stadium is exactly what I am advocating
What is truly unbelievable is that it is really hard to determine what is worse the football side or business side of the Raiders.
Sandy
The plan gets better by the second. Spend cap-required money (and a pick) on Schaub instead of on a playmaker (or, say, your best running back, Jennings), so that he can provide a vet "presence" for Carr, and tutor him in, presumably, the art of intentionally losing games. Great plan!
Jennings didn't want to stay in Oakland, can't make Free Agents stay and the GM isn't going to over pay, that's how the last gig went. All your clever clichés....boring.
I don't think this site is capable of having a true discussion. All the things you blamed me for over the years on here, now look at the mob of minions.....mocking, name calling....yeah you guys are so morally superior. Talk about CLOWNS. I'm the only one who actually writes about the Raiders, the rest of you just parrot what you see on NFL network. Sad indeed.
Dumbest Raider site on the Net.
In one breath, defending paying Matt Schaub $8 million to reach a cap milestone, in another saying the GM isn't going to "overpay" to keep their best running back or get another playmaker. Doesn't add up to me.
@ Raider Take
What this all has to do with Schaub remains your secret. I don't understand what you are trying to get at, but this sounds like denial and mentally blocking the simple and plain truth, that this is nothing else but a cutthroat business. McK may have nothing to do at all with any tank job calling, all you need is Mark Davis for that.
It is interesting how many fans are suffering from short term memory loss. Has everybody forgotten how the Colts secured Andrew Luck in the draft a few years ago? It was the exact same thing, everybody knew it, everybody saw it, despite the media mostly underreporting it.
Why does everybody accept the Colts to pull such a stunt but when it's the Raiders, it is unthinkable and idiotic, because we just HAVE to be so incredibly bad, just 10 days after a solid outing against a playoff contender.
Use not only your brains, but also your imagination.
-M
Raiders win one more game and they could end up with the 5th pick, based tiebreakers for strength of schedule.
So for the "Tanking Plan" to work, we can expect the Raiders to lose out the season with lopsided blowouts. Right?
RT,
Please ignore this nonsense tanking talk. Its beyond ridiculous. I am interested to hear what you think the Raiders should do about the stadium issue. As previously noted my vote is Marc moves the team to LA and finds a partner
Regards
Sandy
Sandy...There are some rumors out there that the Rams will seek to move back to L.A.
A possible solution might be, for L.A. to build a new stadium. Bring back both the Rams & Raiders, and let them share it.
Just a thought.
M, someone said that paying $8 million and a pick for one year of Schaub's "services" made sense as a money dump to meet cap requirements, and then also said that the reason we didn't sign playmakers or re-sign our best running back is because we didn't want to "overpay." I was just pointing out the contradiction.
I read that the Spanos are trying to block Raiders and Rams from moving to L.A., with the Chargers claiming rights to the So Cal market.
Chargers need a new stadium too, and want to either move back to L.A. themselves and/or block others from making the move.
I don't think Mark Davis can go this alone. He needs financial backing as well as someone to hold his hand through the process.
Raiders are at a low point in their history, which might suggest low value and deter Davis from selling. But look at what $$ the Clippers and Bills have been able to command.
Regarding the whole Suck for Luck thing in 2011, let's presume it was true, it was done by teams in desperate need of a franchise quarterback at a time when a once-in-a-generation quarterback was destined to go first in the draft.
It wasn't done by teams who were already playing their presumed franchise quarterback, tanking to the point of that quarterback regressing and getting rattled and then pulled from the game. Nor was it done by teams who were currently mired in the longest streak of non-winning seasons in NFL history and most desperate for any sense of a winning culture.
If teams tanked in 2011 (unconfirmed), it was to secure the closest thing to a sure thing at the most important position in the NFL, not to get the #1 pick and try to trade it to the Jets so that they could choose Jameis Winston when the Jets presumably know that we don't need Jameis Winston.
So I guess my point is that if the Raiders are indeed tanking like the Colts allegedly did in 2011, then it would be the latest evidence of Bill Callahan's famous quote.
Texans drafted Alfred Blue (RB-LSU) with the 6th round pick they received from the Raiders for Schaub.
A couple weeks ago Blue put up a monster game against the Browns...
36 carries for 156 yards (4.3 avg).
http://www.chatsports.com/oakland-raiders/a/Sio-Moore-Attacks-Oakland-Raiders-Fans-Critics-on-Twitter-2-10803175
Exhibit A:
Sio Moore calling out critics via Twitter using the words "...know nothing of the truth"
Let's see how long you guys need to put 1+1 together.
-M
Schaub will be cut after this year with NO CAP HIT. His contract was redone so he would be one and done. Where as Jennings wanted at least 4 years. Jennings also had a choice where he wanted to play and it wasn't Oakland. Take and NYR along with 'Sandy' who spells MARC the same way an agent orange used to, hmmmm.
But go ahead, play your little games, Take, it's all you know because you sure don't know a damn thing about the Raiders. Raider Take, where sincerity never lives.
Your Teacher
When you own the #1 draft pick, you OWN the draft in every RD....but don't let that confuse your little pea brain. Imagine what Reggie can do in this draft after showing his talent in the last draft. The team is going to be loaded with young talent...does that not mean anything to you dolts?
This has been the desire of Raider fans for decades, tired of the retread approach, the youth will be the foundation for years to come. But we still have Raider Take and his minions crying over Veld, Jennings etc and a 6th RD pick. To the other ANNO poster....these guys can't even see one plus one so don't hold your breath.
Their Teacher
SCAR
M, Aren't you imposing what YOU want into what Sio Moore said? that quote from Sio Moore could be in reference to a fan who said that the Raiders should run a 3-4 defense? Get it? you and I don't know what he was referencing.
You asked the posters and readers to use our imagination a few posts ago. I don't take offense, so don't take offense if I ask you to use your imagination a little less and use your brain a bit more.
A team that beat the Chiefs 12 day ago, also lost 16 games in a row previously. "Tanking" doesn't cut it as an excuse for the loss
SCAR
Texans got Blue in the 6th? Looks like ALL THE OTHER teams missed him too? Sometimes you find gems, let's hope Latavius Murray is our late round gem? But that won't stop you from talking up other teams players and dumping all over the Raiders, right?
You guys are not Raider fans
Agent Orange is still in da house.
Sandy,
I've been a Raiders fan since I was 10, and I was 20 years old when the Raiders moved back to Oakland. The reason they moved was because Al had purchased some land in Inglewood to build his own stadium and get out from under the Coliseum. The NFL tried to force Al to share his stadium (which he funded himself) with the Rams (to which the Rams would not help pay for the stadium being built, just rent). Al said, "HELL NO!" and the League voted not to allow the Raiders to build their own stadium. Al Davis sued (again), hoping his anti-trust lawsuit that he won that gave the Raiders the right to move to LA would work here. He was wrong. So instead of leasing with the Coliseum (who is more focused on USC), Al went back to Oakland. A move he did not want to make because he lost millions moving out of Los Angeles. He kept the land, and continued his lawsuits against the League trying to move back to Los Angeles.
With that in mind, let's fast forward to current day, 20 years later. AEG (Owners of the LA Kings and the Staples Center) is looking to move a team to Los Angeles, but it will take a few years to build a stadium. With that in mind, AEG says it will only do so to own the team moving to LA. The Rams, Raiders, and Chargers do not want to sell their teams which is why this deal has not come to fruition. Also, note how the Rams owner recently bought his own property in Inglewood. This property may be the same plot of land once owned by Al Davis before the League try to force him to share the stadium with the Rams (which is why LA lost both teams to begin with). Ironic? Yes, but the Davis family may have been forced to do so being strapped for cash because they are losing money; especially after Al's death.
Mark wants a new stadium in Oakland, but Oakland/Alameda does not want to lose the revenue for the land and stadium they receive from the A's and Raiders. Mark cannot have a new stadium where the current stadium sits; but he cannot get approval from the city either to build a new site across the freeway (which was proposed last year, and rejected earlier this year by the city of Oakland. Remember the Saudi prince financing it?). Oakland wants the team to continue to fork over $$ to them, period. This may be the factor that forces Mark Davis to sell the team, and AEG may be the benefactor. What we may never know is how much the League was behind it to give Al Davis one last middle finger.
That point flew over your head. Blue, or anyone else in the 6th round would have been a vast improvement over wasting millions on Schaub.
Your point was that the Raiders traded for him and paid him $8M to avoid cap penalty. Sounds suspiciously desperate to say the least.
So here we have it. While it's entirely possible that this historically bad Raiders team loses out the season, your "tanking" theory depends on it.
We shall see, Jones, or M, or whoever you call yourself now.
RNate, I think Oakland's reluctance partly stems from it being owed money on the last stadium renovation. They are still trying to amortize that debt.
The point flew right over your head, you know, that empty shell on top of your shoulders.
Schaub was needed as a vet presence, you don't go into the season with Carr and McGloin. 2nd, the cap was not filled, it needed a big contract to fill it or the Raiders get penalized. The reason it sounds "desperate" to you, is because you have no ability to understand the situation.
Raiders play winning teams the rest of the way out....Sio Moore was writing about guys like you NYR = JOKE.
No, I am not 'M', I only go by me, always have, always will....I don't play the multiple name game, like yourself.
you = clueless 'genius'
The ONLY way Mark gains leverage on a stadium deal.....is WINS and STABILITY. Been telling you dumb shits this for a long time. He is in the process of making that happen. To make it happen, there had to be PAIN and this is it.
Soon, it will be uphill at a good pace, you watch, then Mark will have plenty of leverage, just like the whiners did when they started to win again. Think, it ain't illegal yet....but I must say this, the agenda of dumbing down the masses is working and this site is pure proof of that.
Dumbest site in America
SCAR...Sio is dead on, just look at this site. You still have Raider 'fans' who want Pryor back and to rehire Hue as HC. Then they want to move to LA and have Mark sell the team. But then they cry that they don't want to be like all the other teams.
Raider fans are embarrassing and this site is no different. All the losing has made the nation a bunch of crying 10 year olds with no idea how to get back to respectability. So they scream for the Org to be run in the same fashion it used to be even saying that the Org was better off with Al Davis running the way he did before he passed. That is how clueless most are and SIO has had enough of the idiots, much like I have too.
SIO tells it like it is
SCAR
Jones, again just like your comments about tanking, I'd like to see sources, and or clarification from Sio Moore stating tanking is what he was referencing in his tweet.
How I root for the Raiders, is I don't excuse poor play. I don't imagine scenarios. I form opinions based on what I see. If you have inside sources to the Raiders brass that's one thing, otherwise your posts are also opinions, that aren't really based on fact.
SCAR
Alternately, Jones has figured out that demoralizing the team and its fan base is a step in the right direction.
Think maybe Mark Davis and Reggie McKenzie offered Schaub a bonus for his fumbles and pick-six on Sunday?
Did I say SIO said anything about tanking? You just proved the point once again.
Sio said most of you guys are JOKES because you don't have a clue...I happen to agree with him. Do you need sources for that? I don't care what you want, I have proven myself on this site for years. Time will tell and if I am wrong, I will say so....can't say that for any of you JOKES.
I wrote on here for years that Al Davis had to step down and let someone else take over. I was slandered the same way I am being slandered now. So obviously, I am on the right track. If the RT minions are railing against me, that usually means I am on the right track.
I have watched pro sports for over 45 years. Have played competitive sports for over 15 years...I have a good idea of what I see and I can listen to the chatter and read between the lines. Have proved it over time on this site. What have you proven? That you can bitch like a woman? I have proven myself over time, have you?
My words speak for themselves
How do I demoralize the team? Or the fan base? By telling you the truth? Maybe you should look in the mirror, all you have done since year 1 of this regime is bash it. With no ability for reasoning, it's all you have.
biggest JOKE = NYR signed SIO
SCAR
Is this a pissing contest? I'm not slandering your opinions, I'm disagreeing with them.
As for my "references," I played competitive sports thru college, and then I joined the army as an infantryman where excuses and poor performances got you kicked out of the military, or worse yet, killed. And not that it matters, but I was asking for Al Davis to get a GM on this site after he fired Kiffin.
I'm done with the Verbal sparring. It isn't going to help the Raiders get any better. It isn't going to make the coaches coach any better, or the players play any better...
SCAR
Just to clarify and to defend Jones, I'm not him.
I'm a longtime reader over the years, who from time to time posts here in the comments. If you don't believe me, I'm sure RT can check the IP adresses of people commenting here. Mine should be a few thousand miles away from wherever Jones is based :-)
I see you won't accept any tanking theories without an official press release confirming the tank job by the Oakland Football Raiders, signed by Reggie McKenzie, Mark Davis and the ghost of Al Davis, so I rest my case.
-M
The only person who's going to get props from me for this mess is the person who predicted that the team would get considerably worse in Year 3 and then tank the season to gain a draft slot. Show me that person, and I'll give them props. As far as I know, that person doesn't exist.
Someone complaining about fans complaining about a 1-11 record and a 52-0 blowout, then jockeying for being "right" when the team inevitably improves (because it can't get worse)? No props for you.
No it's not a pissing contest, it's about getting down to what is happening with the Oakland Raiders. This is professional sports, not the military. In the NFL, almost anything will be done to make your team a winner. If you have to take a few losses to put you in a position to run the next draft....that is very tempting and not a bad strategic move at all...if it works out.
Mario Lemieux was tanked for, Luck, Elway...IMO, the tanking is being done so Reg can own the Draft and make a big splash with a good HC hire. Like I have been trying to tell you, at this point, it's about next year, this year is done. People get all bent over it, it has happened before and it will happen again.
A good HC hire, another stellar draft and now Mark has some cards to play with...do any of you understand the business side of it? Or the team side of it? It's frustrating being a teacher when the class is a little short....if you know what I mean.
Class dismissed
Tell it like it is
M, no need to check IP addresses. Dissent is welcome here, I'm glad that there's someone joining Jones' side on this debate, it makes it more interesting.
I'm not saying it's IMPOSSIBLE that the Raiders are tanking, but I think it would be pretty dumb of them, given all of the factors I've cited: the desperate need of building some sort of a winning culture, the need to protect and embolden your supposed franchise quarterback, the lack of a Luck-type draft target, the drag on marketability (to free agents, potential coaches, fan base), etc. It just doesn't seem too bright.
Well Mr Take, have explained that one to you before as well. Your memory isn't very good.....this REBUILD is one that has never happened before in pro sports, so how could there be a timeline? How could anyone know every step along the way before it has happened? It's new waters, there will be mistakes and things that happen that are unforeseen.
They have a rookie QB, with an O-line together in it's 1st year, poor to avg WR's, terrible RB's and had to pick up half the team through other teams trash = free agents. The Free agents didn't want to come to Oakland so Reg signed guys with winning pedigree who could be easily discarded with no cap hit once he brought in YOUTH to take their place. The youth could watch the winning pedigree to learn the NFL way.
Then they are given the toughest schedule in the League and dolts like RT want PLAYOFFS. They didn't have a chance, especially when the HC was fired and the team had quit on him. AND NOW the reason that HC was hired....well, hopefully you know that story or your retention for facts is very limited.
RT, likes to play dumb = more comments
Sorry, there was no prediction of, or excuse for, the team getting appreciably worse this year.
Reggie got off to a bad start, and has been slow to raise his game. That's why we're the worst team in the NFL in the third year of his tenure.
It has nothing to do with playoff expectations. It has to do with expecting not to be the worst team in the NFL in year three.
You are correct, expectations shouldn't be overly high at this point. But I'm not going to join you in this business of lowering expectations.
It's up to Reggie to raise his game. There's evidence that he may be doing it, based on this year's draft. If he can improve on his free agency performance and stop spending millions on acquiring quarterbacks who hold clipboards, then we'll get to where we're going even faster.
You sound like you want to give Reggie an A+, with every negative blamed on some external factor, while suggesting that I'm giving him an F.
I'm not, I'll give him an overall C at this point, with some signs of improvement. The problem is, we need A-grade talent from the front office to the field. Which means that he has a lot of work to do, if he's still here to do it.
I give Reggie a solid B for what he has had to take over and reshape. The whole Org was a disaster. Salary cap was a disaster with boatloads of cap space being invested in players like Routt, Kelly, Huff..on and on. With no youthful talent coming up from all the top draft picks the Raiders had before Reg was here...there was NOTHING. So it had to be torn down and redone from the FRONT OFFICE to the practice field.
The roster was EMPTY, no assets to build from. This year was the real start of the rebuild and a lot of the roster had to be filled with castoffs from other teams. And most of the decent castoffs didn't want to play in Oakland.
So it is what it is, has to be done through the draft. Reggie had a great draft last year, the year before the draft was low on talent, nobody had a great draft that year, the talent wasn't there. His 1st draft started at the top of the 4th RD because all the other picks had been traded for garbage or drafted a running QB who isn't playing anymore.
When you take it all under CONTEXT, you realize the job at hand was not a 1 year, 2 year, 3 year and it's done. And to see the full context, it had to play out, that is why no one could predict EXACTLY how it would go. Your questions of WHYne are not reasonable because you are unable to reason and understand the scope of it all. That's on you, not Reggie.
Tah Dah
Lol. No matter what misstep Reggie makes, Jones is right here telling us he told us so, and touting Reggie’s way as the ONLY way it could have been handled.
Tank theory = NO WINS!.... time will tell
I’m good with having the #1 pick in 2015. Are you ok with being wrong, again?
Just Tank, Baby!
OK, bright guy, instead of mocking, why don't you explain to us all how it SHOULD have been done....this should be hilarious.
In all your mocking, you have never ONCE shown a better way to do what Reggie has had to do. So let's hear it, the guy with all the answers who never gives any, let's hear it, FOR ONCE
Just say it, baby
Jones, I’ve been here the whole time stating my views. I think McKenzie has been given adequate time to demonstrate improvement on the field. His record speaks for itself.
The first indication of failure was early on, when McKenzie/Allen admitted to not scouting the roster they inherited... a critical shortfall that led to switching the O-line to zone blocking.
Are you telling me McKenzie had no other options on this matter?
Again, nice deflection, typical troll move. I won't answer anything from you until you tell me how it should have been done, not just your views on mistakes. Tell us how it should have been done, if you can, I might have a little respect for you. But of course, you won't, you will deflect it to another point, just like all the trolls do.
Once again, NYR, context. When Reggie came in, of course he had no idea what the players were, he had never dealt with them. So in the 1st year, they wanted to see UP CLOSE what they had as far as talent. They found out there wasn't much worth keeping. And coming in to a disaster, how could Reggie just start cutting people left and right with no way to replace them? USE YOUR FUCKING HEAD, if you can. As far as the "changing to zbs"....Who would of taken the OC job that 1st year? A top OC? NO, Knapp was the best they could get, he was familiar with ZBS....they changed back to Power scheme shortly after. The 1st year was a clusterf*&^. If you don't know that and keep using the same old stupid "see, look what he did"....you are nothing more than a troll....another WASTE of time.
Trolls be U
Guess we're not that far apart. You think Reggie gets a B, I think he gets a C.
I think that the Raiders could be much farther along if Reggie had performed in the B or A grade range, you think he's performed well and that the state of the Raiders in 2014 is reasonable under the circumstances.
I believe the results support my C grade, but hey, we all see things differently.
time will tell who could see. it's still in the building process, not done yet, takes time when there are no assets and no money till your 3rd year. Been trying to knock that into your concrete skull...can't even dent it. Oh well, at least you are happy?
Flying over the nest
Nobody likes the losing, nobody. But there are those who see a light in the tunnel and it isn't coming at us. Some just see BLACK, it's all they will ever see because they are probably black in their mind/heart = no light.
Some see the youth and get excited, some see youth and say "why aren't they winning".....some see a QB struggling his rookie year with no weapons to help him....some see a bust and want to draft a QB 1st overall. Yeah, some see different and some just see stupid.
If you think, take the whole scenario in context, you come up with a much better conclusion than going by emotion and dislike for someone because they don't look or talk the way they may like.
Alright, class is done, go home and play with your John Elway dolls, don't forget to brush his teeth.
Your daddy
Who said McKenzie had to "cut people left and right?" If he had scouted the roster and better understood the strengths and weaknesses of his players, perhaps he might have taken another direction on ZBS and even kept some players.
We saw Barksdale this past weekend, and he looks like a solid young RT for the Rams.
Barksdale wasn't a cap casualty. He was part of a knee jerk program by McKenzie's, which was later conveniently labeled deconstruction phase... now in Year 3.
still crying over an avg player? Barksdale is no better than Watson or Barnes so who cares? Reggie probably didn't call for the ZBS, that was probably on Allen because Knapp was familiar with it.
Knee Jerk? I think Reggie has been pretty methodical with what he has had to deal with. But your view is never on the MARK, is it, NYR? But you seem to like to embarrass yourself, so have at er.
NY people don't know the Raiders
Jones, insulting me isn't getting your point across. It makes you look foolish and without a meaningful point of your own. But you probably already know that.
Re: Barksdale, you say the same about Veldheer, but if we keep dumping avg players and replacing them with avg players, how do we gain? Plus, it creates need for using valuable draft picks uneccesarily.
Quality OTs are hard to find, and usually require using high draft picks.
Had McKenzie taken another course and retained Barksdale (very doable and relatively inexpensive) as well as Veldheer (who signed at fair market rate), we wouldn't still need to upgrade both positions.
So instead of being ahead of the curve, he is way behind it. Again, his record speaks for itself.
Signing Veld to a 5 year deal when his body won't last that long is not smart. Barksdale was and is avg at best, again, he didn't fit for whatever reason, so what is the beef?
Penn is better than Veld and he will last another year or 2 so plenty of time to fill that void without having to put yourself into cap hell. But again, I KNOW this stuff is way over your head, so there is no sense rehashing it for the 100th TIME....for whatever reason, comments/attention I guess.
Like I have told you, Reg wants HIS TEAM, built through the draft, he doesn't want to overpay and lock into avg players....that is what the last regime did and did that work out? THINK, maybe, just maybe you can try?
BUILT THROUGH THE DRAFT with a new HC next year....isn't this what you always wanted? Now you are complaining because he isn't doing business like the last regime? Get off the glue, man.
Fence jumpers suck
Raider Nate
Great summary. I did not know Al purchased land in LA, I was under the impression he recieved a deposit from developers for the site at Hollywood Park.
I think Mark should sell half the team to AEG or Guggenheim Partners in exchange for them building/financing a stadium.
I think the best place to build a stadium is in one of Orange County, Carson or City of Industry. I dont think the AEG/downtown site could draw enough people to support a two team stadium per 00/Great Blanda's comment
A two team stadium is logical and if Al was not so stubborn and Mark notso much of a dumb ass they could have done that with the niners and not be in the terrible position they are today.
RT, NY seriously guys you are way too intelligent to get involved in a 35 comment debate over whether or not the Raiders are tanking. The truth of the matter is the Raiders suck all on their own and the will get the 1st pick
Regards
Sandy
McKennzie signed Saffold to a five-year deal, and Saffold failed his physical. How is that smarter?
Veldheer is 27 and Penn 31. The answer seems obvious.
Build thru the draft. I get it. But McKenzie needs to step up his game when it comes to free agency. So far, that appears to be a critical weakness for him.
Sandy - My apologizes. It's interesting to debate the issues, when the discussion is kept civil.
Here's an interesting thought; if Raiders pursue Harbaugh to be HC, it will likely cost them valuable draft pick(s).
Florio just posted this:
"When coaches are traded, it doesn’t happen the same way players are traded. Typically the coach’s contract doesn’t get shipped to a new team. Instead, the two teams agree on compensation (draft picks and/or cash) that would be exchanged if the new team works out a contract with the coach. If that happens, the current team releases the coach in exchange for the compensation."
NY
I don't think the Raiders will have to give up what tampa did for Gruden. I have read that last year clev offered two 3s and the niners were fine with that.
I prefer Gruden over Harbaugh-----call me sentimental---What about you?
Who do you guys rank as your top 3 choices for coach
Regards
Sandy
NYR wrote....
"Hidden gems in that beat down include Barksdale (relaesed by McKenzie), playing RT for the Rams, and Saffold (contract signed then voided by McKenzie), playing LG.
The Rams O-line looked all-world against the Raiders."....
then he writes....
"McKennzie signed Saffold to a five-year deal, and Saffold failed his physical. How is that smarter?".....
Dude, you are saddling the fence, your insincerity reeks. One minute Saffold was a huge mistake because he was injured....then he is all world and a hidden gem. Get off the glue
Round and RD you go
Sandy, any interest in Rex Ryan? He could be available.
NY Rex would not be a terrible choice and way better than Allen or Sparano. Rex has the leadership qualities and would help instill some toughness. However, personally I prefer someone from the offensive side of the ball.
Regards
Sandy
I just want a legitimate coach who will utilize the player's talents, and coach them to be better than themselves. It is what a coach is supposed to do, instill confidence in the players! Hue Jackson is the last coach we had who did this.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying bring back Hue, but what I am saying is he was better than Reggie and Dennis. I want a Harbaugh-Gruden like coach who has a fiery personality, and is going to whip the roster into shape. Rex Ryan would be ok, but he would have to have an above-average OC, which I don't know if he can get.
I would take Harbaugh over Gruden at this point only because Gruden has been out of the game for awhile, and I don't think he has the heart to coach again. I see him more as a GM now anyway. Bottom line, the Raiders need to stay away from first time Head Coaches. Harbaugh as HC and Trestman as OC would be bueno.
Sandy, Ryan is an elite D coach. Part of his downfall has been at QB.
The Raiders are set up to solve their QB position for long-term.
While the next four games are pretty meaningless for the Raiders, I believe they have to take a hard look at Carr and decide if he's the guy. If not, Mariota is there for the taking.
Like you, my concern is leaving McKenzie in charge of making this type of franchise-altering decision.
McKenzie/Allen thought Schaub was an elite QB before Carr beat him out in pre-season.
Meanwhile, Carr has struggled to throw downfield. McGloin did better last year with basically the same weapons.
I agree, no on Rex Ryan. We need to aim high and seek elite coaching talent, in the vein of Arians, Kelly, Payton--guys with their eyes on the windshield, not the rear view mirror.
Ryan inherited Mangini's roster and went to the championships twice, but has since overseen a train wreck on offense. Mark Sanchez rolls out of bed in Philly and looks better than he ever did in NY. Why? Chip Kelly knows what he's doing. Ryan is a great D coordinator, but he can't keep up with the elite head coaches in the NFL
Nate said....
"Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying bring back Hue, but what I am saying is he was better than Reggie and Dennis".....
Hmmmm, Hue traded a #1 and a #2 for Palmer and it was almost 2 #1's. I think Reggie has showed he is miles ahead of Hue in the GM department. Hue doesn't even know how to draft. Like SIO wrote = you.
You guys are a laugh
It was a high price to pay for Palmer, and bad timing all things considered.
However, call the Arizona Cardinals and ask them to trade Palmer straight up for Hayden (#1) and Watson (#2). You'll get your laugh.
Palmer might be done, so who is laughing? And I don't care what Palmer is doing for someone else, what did he do in Oakland for a #1 and a #2?
You aren't Raider fans
NY
I agree with you Ryan is a good coach and a defensive genius and he has no QB right now and still has the team playing hard for him.
I guess I just feel like there are more successful coaches who come from the offensive side of the ball versus defense these days
Regards
Sandy
It's a shame. Jackson clearly overpaid for Palmer but fact is the Raiders were on a roll when Campbell went down due to injury. Palmer came in cold (off his couch) and struggled.
In hindsight, that was a bad decision.
In hindsight, so was trading for Matt Flynn, who was annointed starter then immediately flopped. So was trading for Matt Schaub, who was annointed starter and touted as an elite QB.
Doesn't matter the severity you want to place on these trades. They were all bad for the Raiders.
SCAR
is it the QB coach and offensive coordinator's fault for not getting any production from Flynn and Shaub or the GM's fault for thinking he was trading for starting QB material?
SCAR
Sandy, I'm worried we are still too undesirable a destination for decent HCs and coordinators. Look what that's got us so far...
Allen, Knapp, Tarver, Oslen, Sparano.
We are being told these guys represent the level of coaching talent we've had at our disposal.
It appears the same rule applies for GM.
SCAR - Schaub threw like six or seven pick-sixes last year and was benched. Raiders traded for him and immediately labeled him elite... yet his performance resembles what we already knew about him.
Sanchez leaves NY and looks better than he ever did. Vick goes to NY and looks worse than he ever has. Geno Smith is a wreck. The common denominator is a coach who seems to have little inclination to master the offensive side of the ball.
Giving up a 5th Rd'r or a 6th Rd'r doesn't even come close to giving up 2 TOP PICKS in a draft. Of course Flynn/Schaub were traded for because all that was there, was Pryor/Carr and a backup, McGloin...So Flynn was chosen and Schaub was chosen as a carry over until a REAL QB was found = Carr. But once again, the insanity/ignorance of this site shows itself.
Schaub and Flynn are just like Carlos Rogers, or Justin Tuck....vets who have won until Reggie's picks come in and take over. This stuff is way over your heads, I can see that, but why must you keep hitting on the same talking points over and over? Trolling for comments because you have nothing better to do?
Really?
$6.5M then $8M is a lot to throw at two QBs that barely took a snap between them. Hard to justify either of those trades as being savvy... far from it!
SCAR
I'm talking about it Jones because the decisions to make the trades sucked. Point blank. And the guy who pulled the trigger is accountable for his successful moves and failed moves equally
a GM with the ability to build a competitive then winning team would look at those qb' s and say,,, no. These guys don't add anything to the team. You don't pay a QB 8 million to fit the cap and hold a clip board. You sign someone else at another position that WILL help. Mentoring??? That's what a QB coach is for. The Shaub trade left 1 more position unfilled.
So know let me ask you why you continue to try and spin a shitty trade?
your reluctance to admit McKenzie' flaws weaken the good points you do make
SCAR
Not saying it was savvy, stop putting words into my posts. It was a needed move, Schaub's contract help fill out the cap....another round and around topic, hey NYR?
Flynn already had a contract from Seattle, Reggie redid it so there was no cap hit if it didn't turn out. Don't you have any better points? It's the same ones you have been using since last year. Can't say much this year? Veld and Saffold...anything else? Do you ever mention the good moves Reggie has made? Oh yeah, fell in his lap, dumb luck, I forgot.
Dolt city
Jones,
My comment regarding Hue being better than DA and Reggie is more to the fact that Hue got more out of his roster than Reggie and DA have gotten out of theirs. The trade for Carson was bad, Hue didn't have to break the bank for that, but some of that lies on Mark Davis' shoulders as well for approving it. You also act as if trading for Schaub and Flynn paid out better than what the Raiders got out of Carson. Now that is laughable. Carson was nothing but a class act here, and he did amazing things for the Raiders offense in his time. Now look what he has done in Arizona. It's a shame he is injured because he was playing lights out.
McKenzie could not get the free agents because he didn't get competent coaches this past off season. He has done some awesome things, but he has made some of the most bone headed decisions that can be comparable to what Hue gave up for Carson. $6 million to Flynn, who didn't even play a snap in the regular season for the Raiders. $8 million to Schaub, who at least took a few snaps this last week. He also threw a TD pass, but to the wrong team. He preached how he has wanted a smash mouth football team, but retained a coach schemed soft zone defenses, not too mention 2 OC's who have proven themselves to be clueless. Not too mention not bringing in a #1 WR, and our running game has digressed in the last 3 years.
Mark Davis spoke before the Chiefs game in support of Reggie, praising his work for walking us through salary cap hell, and taking this job, and turning this team around when it was in shambles. And he is right. Organizationally, this team was the pits. The front office hooligans that had their heads way too far up big Al are gone. Reggie has done a nice job of managing through the crap. Now he has got to put it together in the coaching staff and player talent level. They spoke all last off season that they were going to do just that, and have fallen flat in every move they made outside of the draft.
I think a large part of that is not letting go of DA and his coaching staff last off season and bringing in experience. I think that scared away any serious free agent. So now Reggie has to step his game up as GM. I think he needs a Head Coach who is fiery and knows what kind of players he wants on the team.
But we shall see what happens. If we fall flat in Free Agency this season and don't get the top-notch coach that we need, Reggie should lose his job. There are so many young and stellar defensive lineman and good veteran receivers available that we should not be hurting in these areas next season. But we will not attract these free agents with another round of lame coaching.
Schaub was traded for because WHO ELSE WAS THERE? You guys act like there was a full lineup of candidates to fill that role. Schaub was a good QB up to falling off the cliff. They were hoping they could get more out of him. Carr took over and they didn't need him anyways. So now Carr will be ready for NEXT year and Schaub will be long gone with no cap hit....can you understand the business side of the game? Or does that not register? because if it doesn't, then you have no idea what it's is to be a GM so you are in no position to judge said GM.
You guy(?)s, is there any meat to you? Are you just fluff floating in the wind? Get some stability...read SIO MOORE's tweet, he is trying to tell you something....something I have been trying to tell you for a while..( God knows why?) sucker for punishment maybe? One of these days I'll stop WASTING my time here....when I go back to work soon, then I won't come here any more....same thing over and over type thing....bang head here
Fly over
Hey Nate, that was a good post, thanks for your respectful manner.
Free agents see Oakland as a black hole and it's got to do with passed reputation and the fact that the coaching has been bad. But this is a point that has to be taken into consideration, Reggie came into a situation that NO HC WANTED ANYTHING TO DO WITH.
So blaming Reggie because the coaching wasn't good enough, is short sighted and wrong. And as I explained, NO HC worth a shit would be hired until the TABLE WAS SET. That meant cap situation fixed = CHECK. Scholarships and dogging players cut = check. Show the ability to draft well = check. Stock young talent = check (after this draft)....STABILITY = check....NOW THE TABLE IS SET FOR THE NEXT HIRE which will be an upgrade because now it is attractive to a HC. TAH FUCKING DAH.
YES, Reggie's job hinges on the next HC hire and this next draft, if he fails, may as well get ready for more shit rope. I do not wish he fails like most of the 'fans' on this site, I back him 100% and I really believe he will pull through for us , the FANS. Until then, fuck all you whining pieces of shit. That last comment was not intended for Nate.
EAT ME
SCAR
There was no one else Jones. The trade for Shaub says as much about McKenzie's ability to build a team as it does for McKenzies ability to assess NFL talent. That was money that could and should have been spent elsewhere at another position. You don't sign a qb that fell of the cliff(if you know how to assess talent) when there are so many positions to fill. You sign and possibly overpay a player at another position that WILL work out,(to make the cap fit) then look for a qb next year, or in the draft. Whats so hard about this idea that you cant seem to get? He isn't building a winning team like the best do. Mckenzie can draft but his decisions in how to build a winner are lacking.
You can't see that. I don't hold it against you. But I can, and I'll point it out
This is McKenzie's livelyhood. He better get it right. If he doesn't then he gets the ax, and we the fans get to watch the Raiders get plowed 52-0 and have a 1-11 record.
SCAR
They traded for Schaub near the end of free agency, there were no players magically falling from the sky to sign. You do not over pay and give long term contracts....do you ever learn? How did that work out last time, huh?
Reggie is building through the draft and he did get his QB = Carr, or did you forget? They were eyeing Carr long before draft day and Reggie wanted to draft his guy. If you think Schaub was traded for to be the franchise QB, you have to be out of your mind, he was a bridge at best that wasn't needed cause the Kid is ready to become an NFL qb.
You build a winning team by DRAFTING WELL....Reggie has shown he can do that, now the new HC comes in to mold the youth into WINNERS...see how it works? Probably not =
Dumbest Raider site in America
"Allen, Knapp, Tarver, Oslen, Sparano. We are being told these guys represent the level of coaching talent we've had at our disposal"
*****************************************************************************************************************************
NY...Money talks. If Mark Davis opens up his wallet, the top Gm's, & HC's will come.
You get what you pay for. The proof is on the field.
ScAR
Thats right, you don't give long term contracts. McKenzie is good at that. He isn't good at free agency qb trades.
It was at the end of free agency becuase he didnt put into effect a successful plan to sign a player at another position that would help, and if need be for only 1 year. Get it? He screwed up. It isn't rocket science.
Since Carr was the prize, again, no need to hobble Carr. Use the money to sign a WR or a lineman. Someone who will help Carr be a better qb. Shaub a mentor? uh, no. Thats the qb coaches job. 8 million dollars and a draft pick? and all the Raiders got was a clipboard holder, AND RM knew thats all they were getting?? bad move.
Building a winner includes drafting well as part of the recipe. Stop trying to prop up all of Mckenzies moves as gold, and stop coming on this site with the condesension. It's not working.
SCAR
WHO CARES, neither Flynn nor Schaub were traded to be the SAVIOUR, they were stop gap until the QB could be drafted, he has been drafted now, what's your beef?
Sign a FA QB who is mediocre to long term and high money? Is that what you wanted? THE QB IS HERE, he was DRAFTED, just the way Reggie wanted it.
FA didn't offer any WR or lineman worth giving a good contract to, but in your stupid mind, you think, "oh well, overpay him and give him 4 year deal" That's how this team got into the mess it is in.
I will be condescending if you continue to try and shove your bullshit points at me that have been debunked a thousand times ALREADY.
Stop trying to tell me how and what to write....fuck off with your hypocrisy and your stupidity.
you are just another dummy
McKenzie traded for Scahub to be the starter. That's how they scouted him. It had nothing to do with the cap (money that should have gone to a WR). Raiders labeled Schaub an elite QB and annointed him the starter.
Carr ended up being more NFL ready than anyone thought. That's great but that's not how McKenzie scouted him. If so, McKenzie would have picked Carr in the first round, and not left him exposed to all 31 other teams.
P.S. The trade for Schaub occurred early in free agency, before the draft. So stop pretending there was some urgency to spend cap money.
Here (below) is some fodder to chew on. It's list of free agents by position and contracts signed in 2014.
With $60M at his disposal, this is what McKenzie had to work with. The biggest splash he made was signing James Jones to an $11.3M, three-year deal.
McKenzie inked MJD to a three-year, $7.5M deal, presumably voidable after this year... hopefully!!
Have fun...
http://tinyurl.com/qycx3j9
"Reggie came into a situation that NO HC WANTED ANYTHING TO DO WITH.
So blaming Reggie because the coaching wasn't good enough, is short sighted and wrong."
I'm not blaming the past coaching situation on Reggie when he came in. I'm blaming him for being unwilling to upgrade his coaching staff this past off season when the opportunity to do so was in place. This did not help him land the free agents he was targeting which let's be honest, nobody knows who he was targeting, but Napoleon Kauffman spoke of it, and so did Marcel Reece; but neither mentioned names, but they prefaced it with "If we can land these guys, this team will win."
Why couldn't they land them? Not because of the team, but because of the coaching situation (or lack thereof).
Reggie has his hands full. I've been a Reggie supporter since he was hired, but I am starting to wonder if he can get the job done because he hasn't shown us anything on the coaching/free agency front. Though he wants to build on the draft, coaching and free agency still play a big factor in this. You have to have savvy veterans that are going to help the younger players succeed because solid veterans can show players more than coaches can during the game.
He had the opportunity this past off season to bring in better coaching and players and quite frankly flopped. Donald Penn has been the best free agent signing, but he has struggled of late. Reggie has the chance to redeem it, but if he doesn't, it means another overhaul for the Raiders; and that will further damage the team; and more so than the way Al left it. That's the reality and severity of the situation.
To say that Schaub and Flynn were supposed to be the stop gap at QB is correct, that is what they were brought in for, but do not negate the fact that they were supposed to be our starters, they were supposed to bring to the table what Carson brought and neither have done so. At the same time, why not use McGloin as the stop gap? Because he was inexperienced? All the same things can be said about Carr right now, yet they have given him the keys to the franchise. Why don't they do that for the Receivers? Why don't they bring in a quality receiver to help teach the young players how to excel in their craft? Why not do the same with the O-line? How come they didn't sign Alex Mack?
I will tell you why, because having the money to bring these guys in won't do it unless you have legit coaching. Reggie was in the prime position to make that happen last off season and did not pull the trigger. It's frustrating to me, and that has caused me to wonder if Reggie can really do it.
I also think most people on this board understand my point. But sometimes it is difficult to compose a deep thought/evaluation like this, and it is done in pieces.
I don't think anyone on here is intentionally being hypocritical. Nor do I think anyone is being dumb or stupid or arrogant. We are the Raider Nation, and by that right family. Let's treat each other as such.
Have to be consistent, saying that Saffold was a major blunder and then calling him a hidden gem in another post? Then claiming it was a mistake when Penn was signed for cheaper and is playing at a higher level than the almighty Veld. Or that Schaub was traded for to be the savior of the franchise. It's all bullshit and I agree with SIO, they don't know shit.
Like I told you Nate, for the 100th time, no HC could be hired UNTIL the franchise was set to show they were ready for one. This is the point you and others completely refuse to acknowledge. Same with free agents, they don't want to come to Oakland because the Org has been a piece of shit for a long time. Once stability and wins come = new HC, free agents will come and so will less whining, hopefully.
I will never be family with those who relish in tearing down the Oakland Raiders. They do not have the depth to understand the situation, so they lash out using the same old talking points with no ability to reason when good points are raised to them. They continue to TROLL for comments because they are not sincere at all, been that way a long time on here, oh well. They mock, call names and refuse to acknowledge points, deflecting away from them. Obvious troll and it wouldn't surprise me if it is the same troll that has been here all along.
No family with dolts
Reggie traded for Schaub to fill a role until the real QB was ready. Schaub was not a long term answer, why do you think Reggie redid his contract so no cap hit after this year? He was brought in to fill in until the new QB came along = Carr. NYR is so full of hate, he will make up scenarios to fit his bullshit. If you hate the Raiders so much, why don't you be a patriots fan?
Frauds are YOU
Literally, for the past seven years, I've had folks yelling at me for not being a "true" fan for criticizing a crappy product. First it was for criticizing Al Davis's crappy product, now Reggie's crappy product.
Yet here I am, still a fan, still criticizing a crappy product. Now that's consistency.
A compliant, meek, unfailingly patient fan base is no more "true" than a vocal fan base demanding excellence and criticizing crap.
The trap has been set here: If you support getting worse in year three, you position yourself for "I told you so" later on, as if there's some essential correlation between sucking for three years before improving. And if you advance the tanking theory, you excuse more losing (but of course, if we notch another win, it will be hailed as a sign that Reggie's on the right track).
It's a clever trap, but I'm not interested.
Reggie may yet lead us out of this, but he's also on the hook for it.
The 2 key, primary cornerstones of a successful team are the HC & QB.
These 2 guys for the most part, make or break, the team.
Davis and McKenzie need to make it a MAJOR priority to ensure the Raiders have a top level, proven HC for next season.
Show Harbaugh the $, love, and authority to join the Raiders family.
Don't care if Davis has to pay Harbaugh more than market value ... or make him the highest paid head coach. It is pennies on the dollar. Have never understood why you would not be willing to spend top dollar for a proven Head Coach.
Priority #2 should be to use the draft and free agency to provide Carr the necessary weapons and platform to grow into a franchise QB.
And there is a very real possibility of it happening, Jack. This thing with Harbaugh is screaming that he is coming to Oakland. One of His last PC's, a reporter was poking him about it and Harbaugh wouldn't answer, gave kind of a smirk and looked away.
Harbaugh and Mark have a good relationship, Mark said he was going to be more involved with this HC hire.....Mark also said that he wanted a SUPERSTAR hiring at HC. Also, rumor has it that Harbaugh`s wife doesn`t want to leave the Bay Area. Harbaugh on the outs with SF.....come on over, would love to have ya.
Again, with the Raiders showing stability, a good young QB and youth and another good draft with more FA signings. It`s getting more attractive even if this season is all losses from here on out. The negative nellies can`t see that though, full of DARKNESS. Those who know the game, see it. The table is being set, some just don`t want to see it...can`t wait for the new HC to be announced, it should be fun.
Can`t wait
Regarding the recruitment and hopefully hiring of Harbaugh ...
(and assuming RM is back)
RM & Davis should not make the mistake of assuming anything until Harbaugh's signature is on the dotted line.
By that I mean, there needs to be a VISION to sell and execute to inspire and craft a situation that will drive this forward.
It isn't about just hiring a top level HC. It should be about how to truly build a franchise from the bottom up whereby all the pieces and strategy fit. The owner, GM, and HC MUST be all on the same page as far as working together on a comprehensive plan to get this ailing ship off the rocks.
In my judgment, it will take a true partnership between the GM & HC to identify the players that will fit the profile, scheme, systems, style of play etc.
It might also require a way to keep Harbaugh who is not known for being a patient guy to have a vested incentive to see the Raiders through the rough times.
Huh? I think Reggie and Mark are smart enough to know if they have a deal or not. And if they don't, they have another candidate ready. I don't think they are just shooting from the hip, there is a plan and a young core is already being set.
The new HC comes in with some very good pieces to work with, not starting from the bottom of the barrel anymore. The new HC will be liking what he will have to work with. The players Reggie has drafted already fit the vision of the team, that is already set. A HC will have to agree with the philosophy of the type of team Reggie wants, he has drafted his players with a certain way of playing in mind. I think Harbaugh or any HC can look at the Raiders and see a good future there. Table isn't fully set, it's getting there.
Just talk football, baby.
"(and assuming RM is back)"
That's not even a talking point anymore, Mark stated that Reggie is his guy.
He gets the next hire and draft and FA period, this has to be a big step and they will do everything they can to take that step. If it fails....more pain. If it succeeds, lots of people won't be around these parts no more, IMO.
It's comin
Harbaugh nor any other "superstar" coach is going to come to the Raiders with a loser like REggie in the GM post. Three big impediments to getting a superstar HC is the worst stadium in pro sports, Mark being very cheap in terms of paying for HC and Reggie's incompetence.
Regards
Sandy
Funny how 8-8 was the common benchmark set prior to 2013, then again in 2014, and yet here we are supposedly jockeying for the #1 draft pick.
The point was made that owner/GM/HC have to be in lockstep. Isn’t that what we had with Davis, McKenzie and Allen? There were no communication barriers.
IMO, if McKenzie is going to wield $60M or $70M in cap space every year, it’s critical he use it more wisely.
Safe to assume his intention is not to just build thru the draft. Otherwise, why would he need to free up $60M-$70M in cap space? The whole deconstruction process would be a farce.
He apparently knows free agency is just as important as drafting. Can’t build a team without success in both these areas.
Yet McKenzie has whiffed bad enough in free agency to suggest might not be able to finish the job he started.
Sandy, even if the Raiders can land a top HC, rebuilding will require improvement in other areas which McKenzie has had little to no success.
SCAR
Some really solid comments and opinions made last night...
Go Raiders! Stomp on the 49ers this sunday!
SCAR
"Like I told you Nate, for the 100th time, no HC could be hired UNTIL the franchise was set to show they were ready for one."
Jones, for the 100th time, this is what the Raiders organization was telling everyone in the off season that they were ready to do, and the changes were coming; and it all flat lined when they retained Dennis Allen, Jason Tarver, and Greg Olson. It is something that you seem to be ignoring.
Everyone expected those changes this last off season. I screamed for those changes last off season. Reggie and Mark both were indicating that exciting things were going to take place. If you look at my posts, I've been screaming the same thing that you have just said that no Free Agents or Coaches wanted to come to Oakland until they saw changes. Everyone saw how Reggie changed the organization, it was primed and ready for the change, and Reggie didn't pull the trigger for change. Why? Nobody knows. So don't tell me that I'm ignoring the facts, because I'm not.
As for tearing down the Raiders, I don't think there is one person here doing that. The majority here are venting frustration, expressing intelligent opinions on what we all see as needing to change and how we would do it. I agree with some of it, and disagree with some of it. Even some of the things I post in the moment of my frustration, I think about it, and after thinking about, and being challenged by other's thoughts, can change my mind about my initial response. No big deal, and it is not hypocritical. In fact it is logical to be challenged on your thoughts and going with a better solution. Wouldn't you agree?
I'm not saying this happens all the time, and with everyone here. I'm speaking for myself. But I've been posting on this board for quite some time, and I have a lot of respect for the people here. We, as loyal fans, want to see significant changes to our beloved team. We are tired of excuses, and tired of the team being content with mediocre coaching and play. This organization (even under the new regime) has done the same thing expecting change. Sometimes the hardest place to look for change is looking in the mirror. That is what this organization's owner and GM need to do right now is look in the mirror and ask, "Am I the problem? Am I the one hindering the change this team needs?" If they are, then they need to step aside.
What the real problem right now with this team is the coaching. We've seen glimpses of the team having the capability to be lights out. At the same time, we've seen our offense dissipate and fall apart (especially our running game). This is on the coaching staff. They seem like they don't want to be here, and they don't care. Olson has done nothing to change how the offense approaches a game in the running attack. He continues to call the same plays, hoping that it will magically change. This isn't coaching, it is lunacy! This is the problem. And no solid Head Coach is going to come in here with a coaching staff that is looney! Reggie needs to clean house with this coaching staff, and let the next Head Coach bring in the guys he wants. If he is unwilling to do that, then we will be in the same boat next season.
Well Stated. IMO, the coaching staff wants to compete, they are just overmatched in their positions and with the problems the Raiders face.
McKenzie has contributed to the Raiders problems by bringing back McFadden and adding MJD, as well as signing Howard to play G. These just touch the surface.
Florio’s take: Jim Harbaugh gets an early look at the stadium he could be calling home in 2015. Hopefully he likes raw sewage and dead rats.
Florio’s pick: 49ers 34, Raiders 17.
This used to be "news you can't use," but the Raiders have justifiably become a punch line.
My thoughts.
1. Reggie hasn't had anything to say to the fans or media. Amazing leadership, in regards to the on field performance.
2. Carr QBR 74.4. McGloin's last year 76.1 on what was apparently a worse team. Carr has been horrific more than 5 yds downfield and that cannot be blamed on the receivers. If he goes down field he very rarely gets close. He may have an upside but I don't see massive improvement over the last Rookie they rolled out. I'm not done on him, just really believe Mariotta should be a strong consideration. Keep drafting until you fix it.
3. There are so many gaps and misses on this team that if Reggie is a Raider employee by close of business 12/29 then they really have no hope.
4. What is up with the stadium? Lease ends this month right? Nice business management.
Bryan
But but ...Sandy, baby.....I thought my posts were unreadable? But here you are reading them....
Anyone who thinks drafting another QB with the 1st overall....you have to be out of your frickin minds. ABSOLUTELY clueless.
Anyone who uses the Raider hating 'Florio' as a reference to anything the Raiders...well you may as well be Mike Silver, the Raider hating piece of shit too. NYR, how DARE YOU even put the word RAIDER in anything about you, you are not a Raider.
Frauds are you
Jones, "how dare I." Really?
You live in a world where it's your opinion or no opinion.
That's your world, not mine.
Lol. I thought the Florio comment was funny.
Drafting Mariota has to be a real consideration for the Raiders, should they continue to "tank" the season.
Carr looks the part, but it's really about getting the best QB for the job. Someone that will take the Raiders to..., well, where other teams want to go.
If we can improve at QB by drafting Mariota, Carr represents competition, depth and/or possible trade bait.
It's still about becoming a championship team, right?
NY I agree with you. Though Carr has shown a few positives, there is no way at this point based on his performance anyone can say this guy is going to be a starter for 10 years. Does he deserve a second year to show his skills, yes, he has done enough to warrant that. Should the Raiders continue to look at that position yes.
Have a good weekend
Sandy
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