That's The Spirit, Jack
Jack Del Rio on the Jim Rome Show:
Q: At 3-13 it would seem like the team is a long way from where you want it to be. Is that the case or do you see this thing turning around pretty quickly?
Del Rio: I’m not very patient, so we’re going to need to turn it around quickly. I don’t expect to come in here and look for excuses why we can’t get it done. I’m going to look for reasons why we will. I was visiting with Kenny Norton, and obviously we got Kenny done and got him here and I reminded him of how we were in Dallas in ’89 when we were playing together and that team was 1-15. And if you look at how many players three years later were hoisting a Super Bowl trophy, a good number of those players were on that roster at that time. So you just can’t look and come into a situation like this and dismiss and say there are no players there. There are players on every team across the league that can play. Our job is to add to those players, some quality, some competition, some structure, and then strive for the excellence.
My take: LOVE IT.
No excuses, no patience. It's about time for both of these things.
I'm starting to feel bullish. Here's where it gets complicated, however. Was last year's team really a six-or-seven win team in disguise, done in by a tough schedule, some bad breaks and the inanity of retaining Dennis Allen for an abbreviated third year when it was clear he didn't have what it takes? Or was the team truly a three-win, clown-car edition?
Our expectations for Del Rio should be calibrated to the answer of that question.
If the record didn't really reflect the truth of this team, then 8-8 or better is the minimum expectation, is it not? If the record really did reflect the truth of this team, however, then .500 would be a nice achievement.
The AFC West is due for a shakeup. Manning looked old in the playoffs, and Rivers isn't getting any younger. Their teams may still be tough to handle, but they sure don't look like they're poised to get better anytime soon. The Chiefs are who we thought they were: competent. Nothing more, nothing less.
So now's the perfect time for the Raiders to bust a move and gain the divisional pole position within two or three years, as long as Del Rio has the ability to establish the right momentum
Based on his words today, he certainly has the mindset to do it.
Q: At 3-13 it would seem like the team is a long way from where you want it to be. Is that the case or do you see this thing turning around pretty quickly?
Del Rio: I’m not very patient, so we’re going to need to turn it around quickly. I don’t expect to come in here and look for excuses why we can’t get it done. I’m going to look for reasons why we will. I was visiting with Kenny Norton, and obviously we got Kenny done and got him here and I reminded him of how we were in Dallas in ’89 when we were playing together and that team was 1-15. And if you look at how many players three years later were hoisting a Super Bowl trophy, a good number of those players were on that roster at that time. So you just can’t look and come into a situation like this and dismiss and say there are no players there. There are players on every team across the league that can play. Our job is to add to those players, some quality, some competition, some structure, and then strive for the excellence.
My take: LOVE IT.
No excuses, no patience. It's about time for both of these things.
I'm starting to feel bullish. Here's where it gets complicated, however. Was last year's team really a six-or-seven win team in disguise, done in by a tough schedule, some bad breaks and the inanity of retaining Dennis Allen for an abbreviated third year when it was clear he didn't have what it takes? Or was the team truly a three-win, clown-car edition?
Our expectations for Del Rio should be calibrated to the answer of that question.
If the record didn't really reflect the truth of this team, then 8-8 or better is the minimum expectation, is it not? If the record really did reflect the truth of this team, however, then .500 would be a nice achievement.
The AFC West is due for a shakeup. Manning looked old in the playoffs, and Rivers isn't getting any younger. Their teams may still be tough to handle, but they sure don't look like they're poised to get better anytime soon. The Chiefs are who we thought they were: competent. Nothing more, nothing less.
So now's the perfect time for the Raiders to bust a move and gain the divisional pole position within two or three years, as long as Del Rio has the ability to establish the right momentum
Based on his words today, he certainly has the mindset to do it.
posted by Raider Take at 6:43 PM
354 Comments:
I like the mojo & vibe JDR is giving off. The vibe of JDR is a guy ready for that 2nd crack as an NFL Head Coach plus someone genuinely excited to lead his boyhood team.
The interviews that I've seen, heard, and read from JDR is a combination of a tough, sincere, direct, and passionate leader.
GO RAIDERS!!!
Del Rio said all the right things at his intro presser, and I like the addition of Ken Norton, Jr. These guys have to be upgrades over Allen and Tarver. Right? Although, Norton lacks experience as a play caller.
For me, I think the bigger question is on offense. Musgrave doesn't bring the same winning pedigree, and one year as QB coach under Chip Kelly doesn’t make him a Kelly protegee . It will be critical how the Raiders handle Carr and his progression. Also, giving him the right weapons.
In terms of expectations, it’s tough to even say. It’s nothing less than amazing that the Raiders have managed to sustain failure as long as they have. Will this be the year they turn it around? Who knows. Hope so!
Good to see a good coaching staff in place. The process has been done, the Raiders can now be on par with the rest of the League. No more 40 mill under the cap, no more lame drafts. No more drafts starting in the 4th RD. No more reloading HOPING it will work.
The Org is now running like an Org in the 21st century, thank goodness. The hole was so deep, anyone who thought the cleanup was a 1 or 2 year deal and still think that way.....It would have taken this long no matter who was hired.
Steps had to be taken, no shortcuts and it has been a good job by the guy Mark hired to turn it around. This site has been hammering the new regime, now they like them? Fence jumpers are the worst.
Me
I've been excited about this hire. Yes, I wanted the flashy name (Harbaugh, Rex, etc), but who didn't? Del Rio isn't as flashy personality wise, but he's smarter than Harbaugh and Rex; and this is a smart hire by the Raiders.
I felt the personality in the coach would bring the swagger back, but the cerebral aspect of game planning was what was missing. Del Rio brings that aspect, as well as being the coach who connects with players, but is not as boisterous in the media. Bringing on KNJ, and hearing what people around the league are saying about him being a DC, is freaking exciting. A lot of people in the League are talking about how scared they are of what Ken Norton Jr will bring on the defensive side, coupled with the guidance of Del Rio; and the fear is based on a possible defensive scheme that has yet been seen/used in the League and that will dominate the League because these 2 guys are that cerebral.
Del Rio will also bring in the Free Agents. Players want to play for him. So I'm excited to see who the Raiders will pick up free agency, as well as the draft.
I would like to see the Raiders pick up these FA:
Mike Iupati (Guard)
Wiz (Center) or Jonathan Goodwin (C)
Fili Moala (DE) or Da'Quan Bowers (DE)
Terrance Knighton (DT), Pat Sims (DT), and/or Corey Peters (DT).
Julius Thomas (TE/WR), Jeremy Maclin (WR), Torrey Smith (WR), and/or Demaryius Thomas (WR).
I think the Raiders could get Ray Rice on the cheap, and/or Ben Tate.
Darius Butler (CB), Byron Maxwell (CB), Walter Thurmond (CB), and/or Chris Culliver (CB).
JUST PROVE IT, BABY!
When Del Rio was hired, McKenzie was asked why he had been in touch with Del Rio and why Jack did not take the job instead of Allen. Rio responded by saying that both he and Reggie had spoke about the job and both concluded that the TIME WASN'T RIGHT for him to take the job. Both McKenzie and JDR said this.
So this lends evidence that when Allen was hired, he was hired because other coaches didn't want it. And, the team had to be rebuilt 1st, before a guy like Jack would take over as HC. Truth, I love it.
Me
Hiring Allen almost (and maybe should have) cost McKenzie his job. If Del Rio and McKenzie were so connected, why was it Davis who pursued Del Rio as HC? Please tell us more of the inner workings in Oakland.
Meanwhile, you keep drumming that "Allen was the only option" beat if it works for you, Jones. Forget that better, experienced HC options were on staff working for Allen.
Just tap your heels together and repeat three times, "there's no place like home.... Sweet dreams!
You think Mark worked out the hire? Or was it John Madden like you said before?
Like I told you, Allen was a transitional piece. Only an idiot would have fired McKenzie after Allen's 2nd year.
Like I told you a long time ago, if McKenzie was fired, then NO ONE would have taken the job, way to unstable. But I know, this stuff is too deep for you. Maybe you should just stick to BSPN and NFL bullshit Network, it's all you know. Ignorance is bliss, hey buddy?
Me
"You think Mark worked out the hire? Or was it John Madden like you said before?"
So at least we agree it wasn't McKenzie.
No, not at all. You have no factual evidence and all the circumstantial evidence points to McKenzie having the LINE to JDR. McKenzie and JDR BOTH SAID.....read that...BOTH SAID they were in contact about the HC job when Allen got the job.
BOTH SAID in the PC that they BOTH decided it wasn`t the time. Obviously Reggie had a line to JDR and minor discussions ensued.
BOTH SAID it wasn`t the time....but go ahead and believe John or Mark was behind it all, you give Raider fans a bad name.
Me
What about the airline ticket Mark purchased to go interview JDR in Denver? Pretty compelling evidence.
That interview was clearly the impetus behind this hire. Mark Davis took over the HC hiring duties from McKenzie. It's that simple, and it's well documented. No need to read more into it. I'm sure McKenzie "signed off" but, really, what choice did he have? He works for Davis, and now so does JDR.
I hope it was the right move!! Just like I hoped Allen could make it work. I'm not the one here making excuses. You are!
Mark went to Denver to have a meeting with JDR, if you think Mark was wowing JDR with his plan to move the team forward/ breaking down x' and o's...what are you smoking, crack? Mark probably met him to finalize a contract, while Reggie had already done the leg work.
Reggie had made the line when he was 1st hired, Jack said it, Reggie said it but you don't agree. Clueless and you probably aren't even a blonde.
You have no facts to back up that Mark took over the hire and if he did, JDR would not have signed. Mark is not Al, it's different now, one day you might figure it out....probably not though.
Excuses, no, I just laid out how it had to go down and if you want to go back and read what was written in the past, you would see I was much more accurate than yourself and RT and the minions. Go look.
You have written that this Org is in shambles....that the owner has stripped his GM of his duties. If that was the case, no coaches worth ANYTHING would have signed = FACT. When you can start dealing in FACT, then respond, otherwise, don't WASTE my time.
Me
Jones, your ridiculousness about the inner workings of the Raiders has no boundaries.
Let’s review:
First, you told us Dennis Allen was the Raiders only option as HC.
Then, Knapp was their only option as OC.
Then the Raiders had no option but to pay Matt Flynn $6.5 mil to play in one game.
Then paying Scahub $8.0 mil to throw one pass for an INT was the Raiders only option.
Your "tanking theory" was colossal.
As everyone knows, these just scratch the surface of your, well, unique perspectives.
Now you are telling us that McKenzie sealed the deal with JDR via phone conversation several years earlier. Mark simply went to Denver to finalize the contract.
Your words, not mine: “Mark probably met him to finalize a contract, while Reggie had already done the leg work.” “Reggie had made the line when he was 1st hired.”
Wow! That’s pretty amazing! Almost as good as your “tanking theory.”
Prove that Mark took over the hire, you made that statement yet you have no proof.
I didn't say Allen was the only option, there wasn't any better, get it?
Knapp was hired because the Org was a mess, no OC worth a shit would have taken the job....that is very obvious to anyone with a BRAIN.
The QB thing was taking stabs at vets until they could draft their guy, which they have done and your complaining about those moves to this day shows what a puke you are.
Tanking theory? Look at Tampa and tell me they didn't tank....it happens and you are too dumb to see it, don't blame me because you are ignorant..
Anything else? I answered your stupid summary, so do the same and show proof that Mark took over the hiring.
Reggie met with JDR a few times, I told you that Reg and JDR had made the line when Allen was hired and you mock that while saying Mark has taken over the GM duties and is running the team.....LMFAO, you are calling the kettle black, ya tool.
No way did I say he sealed the deal over the phone 3 years ago....don't you have anything better to do than troll all my posts? You really must have a woody, hey buddy?
I am a Raider
nyraider said...
Jones - The culture you pretend to have a monopoly on understanding doesn’t exist in a vacuum with the Raiders. The NFL is a business, and many players treat it like that regardless of team.
You’ve taken the word “culture” to another level and made it your pet peeve excuse for everything the Raiders do.
While I see the Raiders making sound and probably necessary financial business decisions, you see them as curing cancer......
nyraider said...
Jones - It’s not the first time you’ve used McClain as a universal example of your extreme fixation with the Raiders’ culture.
nyraider said...
"No more "cap hell." That has already past for the most part. Raiders have almost $8mm heading into the draft. That's more than a lot of teams.
Next year will obviously be better because the Raiders will shed more contracts... I think they have around $30mm in dead money this year. I'm sure that's a tough pill for Reggie to swallow.".....this was the year the Raiders were 40 mill behind the 8 ball and NYR declares cap hell was over...what a goof.
nyraider said...
"MY understanding is that the average team cap space is around $10mm. If the Raiders are anyway in vicinity of $8mm that's not half bad... thanks to Reggie.
We had a carryover from last year of about $4mm, which is added for adjusted cap of around $127mm.
One reason some teams appear to have so much cap space is large carryover amounts.
The point the Raiders still have a ton of dead money is a good one. I haven't seen comparison with other teams but I would guess the Raiders are among the worst in the NFL... implying we will get the least value from our roster"....SMH, what a fucking idiot.
nyraider said...
"So as you can see, the majority of cap space is clearly more than $10 million.
Not sure I see that RNate.
13 teams (40%) are over $10mm, and many of those teams brought cap space into this offseason under the new carryover rule (made part of the 2011 CBA). For example, the Eagles have about $26mm in cap space but that includes $23mm in carryover.
The carryover effectively increases the threshold teams are allowed to spend.
Again, looking at the Eagles, they have an adjusted cap of $146.8mm.
The Raiders cap is $127.1mm.
Yet if you look at their current cap levels, Raiders and Eagles are very close to being equal.
The Raiders biggest crime is the out-of-whack contracts that McKenzie is trying to clean off the books. However, on the surface, the Raiders available spending room appears relatively average for the league"....what fucking idiot.
JUST SCRATCHING THE SURFACE....so much more to choose from....you want me to continue?
Me
nyraider said...
McKenzie simply had too much to overcome to be judged so quickly. IMO, any GM would need a couple years with full compliment of draft picks and salary cap. The Raiders have had neither to offer him.
nyraider said...
Jones, you don't get the point. These players don't need to be impact players to be relevant for the Raiders. In terms of any of them being potential plug-n-play players on top 10 teams; if Sterling Moore can come off the Raiders practice squad and do it for the Pats, I'd dare to guess any of the players I mentioned could do the same.
Why are you so down on the Raiders entire roster? Are you just a bitter person?
PS, I find it very comical that you believe Darren McFadden couldn't start for a top-10 team. IMO, that statement alone diminishes credibility of your entire argument.
nyraider said...
Lack of continuity has plagued the Raiders over the last 10 years. Do folks really believe that McKenzie and Allen have been given a fair amount of time and resources?
Granted it's been a slow process, but the evaluations and adjustments continue to occur. Plus, 2014 will provide $$ resources that have been unavailable to this point. IMO, there has to be another year under this regime
nyraider said...
Jones - ... based on pure speculation, e.g., your notion that the "Al Davis" culture has crippled this team.
What facts have you presented?
Your facts?!
The Sterling Moore example was the only one that immediately came to mind. I'm sure there are others, but it clearly shows you don't need to be a superstar to contribute to a top-level team.
nyraider said...
Allen has had his ups and downs, that's for sure. But firing him "today" after the adversity he's faced is unreasonable, IMO.
The jury is still out whether that will be a prudent move at the end of the season, but I tend to think keeping Allen for a third year makes sense.
Would I rather have a healthy John Fox, Andy Reid or even Bill Cowhler? Of course! However, some of the Raiders best HCs were first-time HCs in the NFL. Allen is a smart guy and he continues to learn on the job.
LMFAO! Obsess much, Jones?
How long have you been searching and/or saving those posts? (It's ironic that you would call me the troll.)
Actually, even out of context, most of that seems pretty grounded for the time period and circumstances during which they were posted.
I like how this one has grown legs:
First McKenzie and Del Rio spoke by phone before Allen was hired.
Then that 3-year old phone conversation became the impetus behind Mark Davis flying to Denver to seal the deal with Del Rio.
Now: ”Reggie met with JDR a few times.
This story keeps growing like a gossip chain.
Prove Mark has taken over the GM duties.....talk about STORIES.
Hey, you want to bring up our history on here, then lets take a look. Like I said, just did a quick search and if I was to take a good look, there would be plenty of your ridiculous comments.
So if you are going to throw stones, be prepared to deal with it. Keep going, there is plenty more to hang you with.
Reg did the leg work, Mark wanted to see what he was paying for, pretty simple, for those with a brain.
Me
Jones did you miss all the media reports and statements made directly by Mark Davis that he was assuming a much larger role in this process?
What planet have you been living on?
And why does the burden of proof always and only rest with the other guy? Your statements are far from substantiated.
SCAR
Wowwww,,,those are the only words I can come up with after reading this thread...
Ok, let me try here. According to Jones, McKenzie can do no wrong, and is the one and only mastermind behind everything positive that ever or conceivably happened for the Raiders, while he has been the GM, yet is responsible for zero of anything bad associated with the Raiders(like losses, and free agency failures), or anything that could conceivably be construed as negative.....
Is that about right Jones?
Seems like anytime there is a post on here, the thread gets hijacked...
I watched the press conference introducing JDR. McKenzie was backpedaling like a clown on a unicycle at a circus when asked about Allen being hired over JDR.
Mckenzie made the call to hire Allen over JDR. McKenzie hired Allen and called him "MY" guy. Enough of the Revisionism of the facts of the recent past on this thread please. The hiring now of JDR and not back then can and imo should be fortuitous, but by no means was this the plan all along. Anybody that says so is delusional
SCAR
You are making the claim that Mark has relieved Reg of his duties. YOU MAKE THAT CLAIM.
Mark HAD NO ROLE in the HC hire the 1st time, so he wanted it to be known that he wanted to be part of it this time....does that mean he took over the process? Like you are suggesting? No it doesn't.
So show proof of your statements. I have responded to your claims and refuted them, meanwhile, you cannot. Don't WASTE my time, if you can't prove it, STFU. There is no proof that Mark took over the process.
There is proof of tanking and I provided that, you just ignore it. I never said Allen was the only option, you are creating false statements with no facts.
You are the troll and you are the one who cannot backup what he writes, You are the one who jumps fences on a regular basis and cannot prove your STORIES. Look man, you are done, out of options, now you will just lie....go away, you are a WASTE of time.
Me
SCAR, both McKenzie and JDR said it in their PC. Are you saying they are lying? I am just repeating what THEY SAID, are they LYING?
McKenzie has done a good job with a situation that was beyond pathetic. All GM's make mistakes, it's going to happen especially when the GM had to make 10x's more moves over the last 3 years than any other GM in pro sports.
I back the GM because I see he is doing a good job in returning this team to WINNING. Unlike the fucks on this site who just bash the GM and the process with NO CLUE how the process is working.
JDR was on Reggie's RADAR DURING THE 1st hire, both of them said in the PC that they both decided it was not the right time. ARE YOU CALLING THEM LIARS?
Are you guys so fucked up that you can't even understand truth? WOW is right, SCAR, get your head out of your hatin ass.
Me
"Seems like anytime there is a post on here, the thread gets hijacked..."
And nyr has nothing to do with that, right? I can be called any name, mocked and treated like an asshole, but that's ok, right? When I give it back, I'm "hijacking the site, or, being a real jerk" right? You guys give Raider fans a real bad name, get your heads out of your pussies.....you suck.
Me
SCAR
Did you watch or read the PC? they are 2 entirely different animals. When I watched the PC, I saw a very awkward pause by McKenzie before he answered the question about hiring Allen over JDR.
Maybe 20 years from nowMckenzie will write a book detailing how and why hirinig Allen was a better hire then keeping Jackson. Until then, the record shows a mistake made by the GM.
A strong draft, a good draft, and a solid head coach hire have the Raiders trending upwards,,hopefully up to and including a sustained run at championships
Jones, we are going to agree on some things and disagree on others. I'm ok with that.
SCAR
Firing Hue was not a mistake...it had to be rebuilt, not retooled, ya tool.
So what if he paused and it was 'awkward', Reggie isn't the best spoken guy, he makes sure of his words. Are you going to rate a GM on how he speaks? Really? Are you saying he is LYING because of SAID pause?
And you mock my 'theories'? You guys are a real piece of work and IMO, you are probably the same dick posing as different posters....but hey, whatever floats your boat.
I can give facts all day long and they won't accept them....cognitive dissonance is the term? Or just a pathetic troll?
Me
I like the staff JDR has put together.
I think Ken Norton Jr. is going to become one of the top DC's in the NFL.
I think Musgrave will finally, establish a running attack.
Those 2 things alone should vastly improve the Raiders.
From transcript of Inside Bay Area/Raiders, intro to Del Rio:
"Mark Davis: 'I met with Jack on Sunday last week, I guess it was about 10 days ago, in Denver on my own. We had an unbelievable talk and I realized then that he was definitely somebody that I would be interested in having lead this team. After that, the process that Reggie and I had going out was to interview a wide net of people and if there were people that we felt would be of interest to the other person, then we would bring them in for a second interview with the group – with Marc Badain, Dan Ventrelle, Tom Delaney, Coach Madden – and we would talk. We spent about seven hours the other day with Jack and after that interview, I knew that Jack Del Rio was the one that I wanted to lead this franchise into the future. Reggie and I, during that discussion and all, took off for an hour-long, five-minute talk and we both came to the conclusion that it was best for this organization. So Jack Del Rio is our coach and that was important to me and it was important to Reggie. That’s how we came to the decision and that’s when I knew that we would hire him.'”
This was a few question after saying that he, Reggie, Badain, Ventrelle, Delaney, and Madden had come together in the early offseason to formulate a plan on how to interview potential coaches. It wasn't a one man show. That was Mark being assertive in this process, and establishing corporate accountability so one person doesn't take the fall either. I find it amazing how he and Reggie have worked together to change the culture of the Raiders for the past 3 years, as an organization first, and now as a team.
Now if they can pool together and get a stadium, they'll be set. I've got a feeling though this won't happen in Oakland, not because of the Raiders, but because of Alameda/Oakland.
The argument of 3 years ago; here is what the transcript says.
"'Three years ago when you left the Jaguars, the Raiders were looking for a head coach at that time. Were there any discussions between the Raiders and yourself about the possibility of becoming the head coach?'
McKenzie: 'So you ask me, three years ago when I did this, OK. Yes, I did have a conversation with Jack Del Rio. He had gotten released. We did have a conversation, a couple of conversations over the phone in 2012. At that time, when he got released, in my evaluation… let’s wait. When you talk about getting released, right off the bat, three years ago that was my mentality. When he finished his first time head coaching, I was looking for something new at that time. This time, the experience that he’s had the three years as defensive coordinator, being able to step back and see what he’s done, and going through the interview process and information gathering. Then, sitting down with him for seven hours, that was all I needed. That was the difference. I didn’t interview him three years ago but I talked to him a couple of times over the phone.'”
Del Rio: 'I would just follow up and say that after nine years, I need a little rejuvenation really. I feel like the last three years have been very beneficial in terms of me being reenergized, rejuvenated, whatever you’d like to call it. I was able to collect myself, go through some things that went well that didn’t go well. I was able to make sure that my thoughts going forward were to not make mistakes again where I had made mistakes, to do the things that I did well even better. Basically just grow from the experience. Hopefully now I will be able to utilize that knowledge and apply it now with this great opportunity.'”
Reggie claims to have had a phone conversation and was cautious because JDR talked about being released right off the bat. They both felt JDR needed to go in a different direction.
That is all I have been saying....They talked and decided it wasn't the time. So YES, Reg had made a line with JDR when Reg was initially hired. FACT.
Mark Davis did not take away Reggie's GM duties and did not lead the process in the HC hire. FACT.
YES, Mark was involved but he was not leading and conducting the GM interviews. It was a team effort...but Reggie made the contact in 2012.....there you go, SCAR and nyr.....FACTS, not propaganda bullshit.
Me
SCAR
A rebuild can and should have happened with the same coach, or at the very least not a significant downgrade. The GM made a bad move(several for that matter), get over it.
I'm going to defend the Raiders and root for them because I have been a fan since I even knew what football is, but at the same time, if the Raiders go 4-12,4-12,and 3-13, I'm not going to stick my head in the sand and say everything is alright. I'm going to ask questions and try and find out why the dismal record happened. I'll also try and find out if whoever is in charge is taking accountability and is making and taking steps to move in the right direction.
I'm not even sure what you are drinking can be called silver and black koolaid, because no one in the organization claimed tanking. or are you saying everyone is LYING?
McKenzie never said at the presser in the back of his mind when he didn't hire jdr the first time all along he wanted to really hire him 3 years later.
Or are you saying he is LYING.
Mckenzie has strong points(drafting, personell decisions) and weak points free agent qb decisions, and hiring head coaches.
Its well documented that Mark Davis along with Madden played a bigger role in hiring Jack Del Rio, but keep on telling yourself that it was McKenzie all along. As long as JDR is the head coach, Im good.
SCAR
SCAR
SCAR
If McKenzie hadn't failed so spectacularly at his first head coach hiring, then MD wouldn't have gotten involved in the process this time around. That's just common sense.
Either way, this conversation is going in circles...I shoulda never got involved. lolol...
Raider 00, I'm with you, I like the coaching staff. solid choices.
SCAR
Hue sucks, get over it. Are you Mike Silver, or what?
He made the RIGHT MOVE, he dumped an over ego'ed OC who rubs players the wrong way after a short period.
I have outlined many times why this process has done what it has done, you just can't accept that.
The team had to start OVER, it had to be GUTTED. It was a DISASTER and it was going to take a few years because the process included super wacked out contracts, no assets, no draft picks and about 40 mill in dead money. NO COACHES WOULD SIGN TO COACH IN THAT ENVIRONMENT.
So Allen was the best of nothing. Some stabs at some vet QB's were done because there were NO ASSETS at QB after Palmer who wanted out.
Does anyone announce they are tanking? Are you just as dumb as nyr?
DID I WRITE THAT REG HAD JDR "in the back of his mind when he didn't hire JDR the first time all along he wanted to really hire him 3 years later." NO I Didn't, go ahead, play your game, ya twerp.
He did set the line and it was a choice of his when he was 1st hired and that is now very well established no matter how you try and weasel your words to change it. Face it, you and nyr have a woody, you can't satisfy it....go away until it is done. Stop WASTING my time.
I am a Raider
Again, context is way beyond you. There weren't many choices, good coaches don't walk into disasters...a nyr clone...could it be anymore obvious?
That is why Mark didn't fire Reggie, he understands that, you don't, that's why you cannot understand the process, you are ignorant.
Me
Mark got involved because he is the OWNER, the OWNER should be involved...he was so green last time, he had NO IDEA (in his own words). Talk about revisionist, is that your religion?
Me
SCAR
Good point about MD not getting himself involved in the hiring process the first time because he knew he had no idea who to hire. Not so good point that "the OWNER should be involved" at least if you don't want to contradict yourself in saying that RM put out the line and was the driving force for JDR getting hired this time around.
What you keep saying over and over and over again is your version of the truth...
I am a Raider Fan
SCAR
Most Owners are involved in the hiring process, don't you know anything? Your depth is so shallow, how could I possibly have a decent convo with you and your clone? I present facts to back my statements, to bad you and your clone cannot do the same.
I am a Raider
Jones,
"Mark Davis did not take away Reggie's GM duties and did not lead the process in the HC hire. FACT.
YES, Mark was involved but he was not leading and conducting the GM interviews. It was a team effort...but Reggie made the contact in 2012.....there you go, SCAR and nyr.....FACTS, not propaganda."
Actually, Mark did lead the team effort, not Reggie. Mark was the one who approached Reggie, and led the HC search effort. That was in the article. He didn't remove any of Reggie's GM authority, but he sure did take charge of heading up the "team effort" to hire someone.
When it was reported that Rex turned down the interview with the Raiders, and then they hired Del Rio, I was more excited about Del Rio than I was about the possibility of Rex. I've said it before, that the Raiders needed a coach with swagger and personality. Del Rio has swagger and is a cool dude to hang around. His personality doesn't blare like Harbaugh, Hue, or Rex; but players and coaches love being around him. This was a smart hire, as Del Rio is very cerebral (more so than Harbaugh and Rex). Solid staff, solid core of players, and hopefully solid free agents to come.
So you are telling me Mark had the contacts? Mark made the decision on his own that JDR was the guy? Mark was the one who attracted JDR to the job?
Mark approached Reggie and said what? That he is running the HC hire? The GM is hired to get the HC. Obviously Reg had made the line in 2012 and JDR was ready now and so were the Raiders.
Reg and JDR both said it, they talked, agreed that 2012 wasn't the time...and now here we are? Is it so hard for you minions to figure it out? When JDR was ready and the Raiders were ready...it worked out....and all because Mark wooowed JDR, is that right? You guys, are a real riot.
Me
Reggie seems to be getting better at his job, which is good news for the Raiders, who will be the better for it.
The Raiders were in a hole when Reggie arrived, but not so big of a hole to justify 11 wins in three years. He's whiffed on a head coach and didn't fire him fast enough, spectacularly whiffed on QB free agent signings, was iffy in his first full draft, was too tentative his first year with regard to aggressive rebuilding, was flat footed in a cash-flush free agency period last year, etc.
That's a recipe for backsliding to 3-13 in year three even AFTER a strong draft added two of the team's top performers, Carr and Mack.
He earned all of the heat he's gotten, just as he earned the praise for a strong draft last year that likely saved his job. Now he's hired a competent head coach. He's on a bit of a roll. And he should be, because he's now in his fourth year and should be improving at his job. If he has another strong draft and hits free agency hard and JDR proves to be a winner, then he'll be in even better shape.
This is how it has played out so far, as is clear to fans without an agenda. It's not "flip flopping," it's just simple observation.
You do not acknowledge that the whole Org had to be rebuilt. You refuse to acknowledge that Reggie had to make at least 10 x's more moves in 3 years to just the roster alone than any other GM.
You refuse to acknowledge how much the team was hurt by the past regime draft picks that left NOTHING behind, all failures. That was the core, you refuse to acknowledge that.
You refuse to acknowledge that a GM and HC can't just come in and blow up a roster without really knowing what was in that roster. When they arrived, they had no idea, they had never been around or seen them play other than film.
You do not understand that the 1st 2 years were trying to just get the cap in order, barely enough cap space to field a team.
The 3rd year, you refuse to acknowledge that Reggie didn't have much leverage in luring players to Oakland....and no, it's not just about money as you and your minions cry. Those players have to want to come to Oakland and they wouldn't come when it was a MESS.
But again, you refuse all these facts as if they do not exist or are excuses....until you can accept what has just been written, you will NEVER be able to have the reasoning needed to make a proper analysis....just the way it is.
Me
My analysis is self-evident to observers without an agenda, and takes legitimate excuses into account while dismissing poor excuses.
Once again, you refuse to acknowledge..... The plan could not have included playoffs the 1st 2 years for sure = it was impossible, 3rd year could have gone either way, now the team is SET UP to move into being on par with all the other teams.
Like I said, the team was NOT READY, to win, it had to be built back up....I know it's too hard for you to swallow that the last regime had totally screwed up the Org. All those draft picks WASTED, that was what was supposed to build the team back up. They all FAILED, so when the new regime walked in, there was NOTHING.
So how do you replenish a roster with no assets and starting at the top of the 4th RD in the draft? With barely enough cap space to field a roster? You complain that progress should have been made, there was, you just didn't understand it.
You refuse to acknowledge these facts, so it is you who has the agenda, otherwise you would not reject facts and spew propaganda. Yes, everyone can see these words, let them be the judge and let what happens with the team be the FINAL JUDGEMENT.
Reggie did it the right way, he tore it down and rebuilt it in a manner that will keep this Org in a strong situation for a long time. It's the way it had to be done.....you will SEE, one day. LMFAO.
Me
SCAR
The idea that RM could have done no better, he made the best moves possible, and that even with him making all the perfect moves possible, the best the Raiders could do is 4-12, 4-12, and 3-13 is preposterous.
Progress has been made in certain and important areas in the Raiders organization, post AD. Could a different GM have done those moves and more? Absolutely.
Could a different GM have rebuilt the Raiders while still keeping them more competitive, winning more games? Absolutely. Could a different GM have passed on Matt Flynn, and Matt Shaub? Absolutely. Could a different GM have passed on Woodley and lets just say Carlos Rogers for example and spent the money on 1 high profile free agent that would play for the Raiders for 3 years at a high level? absolutely. There are dozens if not hundreds more moves in the years RM has been there that another GM may or may not have done differently. These moves can be critiqued, if not outright criticized.
I am not criticizing the brain trust who decided to hire RM. They made a choice that they thought was the best for the organization.
In year 4 post AD, there is real momentum in my opinion to get the Raiders into a era of a run for championships. Is this because of Reggie McKenzie? Yes. Is he the sole reason for this? No. Could another GM have done the same job as RM? yes. Could another GM have done a better job? yes.
SCAR
"So you are telling me Mark had the contacts? Mark made the decision on his own that JDR was the guy? Mark was the one who attracted JDR to the job?
Mark approached Reggie and said what? That he is running the HC hire? The GM is hired to get the HC. Obviously Reg had made the line in 2012 and JDR was ready now and so were the Raiders."
I'm telling you what Mark said, that he was going to be in charge of a team of people who put together a process to bring in the next coach. To say the Reggie made the hire is absurd. To say Mark made the hire is absurd. A team of people led by Mark (which included Reggie) to follow a process put together by Mark, was used to collectively as an organization to make the hire.
What Mark, Reggie, Madden, and the others showed JDR, and what was most important for Mark and Reggie to show, was there was no longer any dysfunction in the organization. That was the only way they were going to attract a quality HC. Because now that there is no dysfunction in the organization, the truth that this team can turn around quickly is a possibility, not a pipe dream. It was a brilliant move by Mark.
SCAR, a different GM could have done these things, yes; but there was not another GM candidate because nobody knew what Mark was going to do, and with the actions of Hue, everyone thought the worst about the Raiders. Plain and simple. Mark is a very brilliant guy who knows his limitations, but he is also not stupid enough to let someone walk over him like Hue did. In the search for a GM, there was not another person who would even sit with Mark.
Let's not forget, the Raiders got the FA's they got, not because they could get 1 high profiled Free Agent, but because not 1 high profiled Free Agent took the team seriously with our coaching staff. Now that they have a top notch coaching staff, the only blaring weakness with the team that may cause free agents to think twice about joining are the facilities at the stadium. Get a new stadium, get better free agents. I'm afraid it won't happen in Oakland though.
Scar, tell me how many GM's hit on 100%, 90%, 80% of there transactions....name me 1. McKenzie has had to make more moves than any other GM by a long shot....now use the percentage of those moves that ALL GM's go by...= of course there was going to be some mistakes/errors because it's the nature of the Biz.
If you understand this and understand the position Reggie was in when he took over the job....he's done a good job and I will back him because.....
I am a Raider
Oh I get it Nate, The Owner is being the Owner, the GM is being the GM...ok, I get it, thanks for clearing that up.
That dysfunction you talk about....would be alive and present if Alameda is being run the way nyr, RT and his minions say it is. One of my main points is.....if it was in dysfunction as they suggest, no quality coach would sign, but they can't seem to grasp that concept (what a surprise).
Nate, I have to disagree about the FA's. They want to go to a stable place and a chance to WIN. I don't think the Stadium will be a big drawback in signing FA's. I think there is a buzz around the League that the Raiders are very close to being a good team. Players still want to play for the Raiders. The more the League screws players over, the more they want to come to Oakland.
It's like giving the middle finger to the League. I think Reggie has much more leverage now to attract good FA's since probably Gruden. You hear the chatter with players....they want to wear the SILVER AND BLACK. Now they can again......if you ain't on the edge, you are taking up space.
I am a Raider
Me
You look at this last season, and there was several media outlets that spoke with players and did a survey about where was the least favorite place/team players want to play at/for. The #1 answer was Oakland, because of the facility and dysfunction.
Mark Davis and his team have taken care of half of that.
As for as the owner being the owner, and the GM being the GM; kinda. I understand that this is how the majority of teams work in the League, where the owner and GM, and others work together to make a hire. But, and this is the difference, Mark Davis made it a point to say after Reggie was hired, that Reggie and Reggie alone would handle this kind of decisions for the team (not the organization). Why did he change his tune on this hire? Was it because there wasn't a lot of confidence in Reggie? Was it because Mark has spent the last 3 years developing an organization for Reggie and the team to work with? Or was it a combination of the 2? I think it was a combination of the 2.
Reggie has done some incredible things as GM, but he has had more flops than positives in building a roster. Part of that problem (I believe) is because DA didn't utilize the talent Reggie had brought in properly. DA was (and still is) a "scheme guy". His "scheme" trumped any other way, and that was detrimental to the team.
Reggie wanted to build a bully. A team that was defensively going to push, and an o-line that was going to push and be physical; but DA's scheme was soft and the two philosophies didn't work well together (which is why DA is back in New Orleans under a "soft schemed" coaching staff). Now he has a guy who will work and put together the vision that Reggie has for the team.
Mark, on the other hand, has been silent because he's been building an organization. Now he has that organization to compliment and support and help Reggie. It's a win/win situation for the organization. So when I say that it was a little of both (lack of confidence in Reggie, and building an organization) it is not meant to be a negative thing.
SCAR
fair points.
So one thing I personally have confidence in, is that RM can set up a draft board.
Who goes on top?
How much and in what capacity is JDR going to factor in? I would think heavily...
SCAR
Look, several things (but not everything) were handled poorly over the past three years, it's self evident, and it has netted us 11 wins over that span. Reggie deservedly caught heat for it, just as he earned praise for a good draft last year.
However, we have a squatter here who seems obsessed with waiting until the Raiders improve (which is inevitable) just so he can say Reggie was excellent from day one and that even the best GMs in the business couldn't have done better up to this point.
By leaving no room for the fact that Reggie and Mark Davis are learning on the job and that they seem to be getting their act together after three years of experience, we are left with an either/or argument that is trying to drag us all down. Emphasis on trying.
LMAO, hey if this 'squatter' takes a hike, your blog DIES. If you care about this blog, maybe you should treat those who keep it alive, a little better.
I am explaining to you the process and have been for a while, RT. You hate Reggie so much, that you can't see. That is AGENDA DRIVEN...maybe you need to look in the mirror.
Reggie has taken on a MASSIVE undertaking, you don't understand the depths and the obstacles to overcome...this is what all this is about.
The whole time you been calling me a freak because I have BACKED THE PROCESS...you even mocked the term PROCESS until it was used by the GM, Owner, media etc....you are butt hurt, I get it.
The more you keep trying to hang on to your theories of Reggie being stripped and John Madden making the calls....the more you will be shown as WRONG. Don't get pissed at me because you are ignorant of the situation....when in doubt, sometimes it's good just to listen, even if it doesn't sound right at 1st....CLASS DISMISSED.
Me.
Reggie has been masterful since day one. The Raiders tank to secure the fourth pick in the draft. You are now the only thing keeping this blog alive. It's a good comedy routine
Nate, I agree, it was a team effort and the bodes well for the future of the Raiders. Everyone is on the same page.
Mark isn't stripping Reggie and the HC isn't ruling over the GM and John Madden is not calling the shots. He may be involved in the process, but he isn't making the decisions, to suggest that, is dumb.
The F.O is running well and if anyone knows about successful franchises = it starts at the top. And the top is what had to be fixed 1st before anything else could move forward. It was torn down and it had to be rebuilt, that doesn't happen in a year or 2.
As far as your comment that Reggie has flopped on the roster more than he has positives. Seeing as he really didn't even have a draft the 1st year, starting at the 4th RD and using someone else's scouts.
2nd year, the draft was not a deep one, no teams cleaned up in that draft and yet Reggie still came out of it pretty good (still under review), Sio, DJ, Rivera, to name a few.
Last draft he killed it. Once again, FA was bitch, not a lot of top talent and still a bad rep in Oakland.
Some people would call these excuses, throw in the cap problem....it was the REALITY of the situation and NO GM would have had a playoff team under those circumstances.
Under the circumstances, the GM, Owner have done a good job. Why people have a problem with that statement....HATERS, they hate Reggie, cause he doesn't talk like a white guy, or he doesn't dress cool, or whatever the hell......all that matters is wins, Reggie has this team on the way....what else do you want?
Me
Gees, can you EVER be accurate? No, did not say I was the only thing keeping it alive, but I sure help.
Reggie has done what he can since day 1, what else do you want? Reggie hater, that is all you are.
Teams tank and still not get the #1 overall, that has happened before too. Do you know anything about sports? Or are you just a geek who watches guys like Mike Silver and drool wishing you were him?
I really don't think you have much of a clue about what goes on in sports, just like you say there is no bias against the Raiders by the League/Refs.
I am a Raider
You did say that if you leave, this blog dies. Feel free to explain how I misinterpreted.
If that is the only point, along with 'tanking' that you can muster up after all I have written on this thread? You are a wonderful host/hostess.
You have nothing, so you are on a discredit routine....so sad RT, buck up, join the discussion, create something? Or, just be a butt hurt weasel who just can't stand that Reggie is still here and doing a good job...LMFAO.
Me
QUOTE..."If you care about this blog, maybe you should treat those who keep it alive, a little better."
THOSE, see that word?
Me
Inaccurately pointing out an alleged inaccuracy, and then ducking the question. That tells me all I need to know
"Those" meaning you apparently; hey if this 'squatter' takes a hike, your blog DIES.
Maybe Jones will allow us to put that to a test.
oh man, look at everything you have ducked....it's all listed above these comments = things you fail to acknowledge. When have I ducked any question? That is yours and your minion's act. I'm the one that actually addresses points made and discuss them, unlike you and nyr who are on a discredit rage. You guys 2 cannot discuss what is being discussed, so you turn to mocking and discrediting...pathetic.
I am a Raider
YOU: Hey if this 'squatter' takes a hike, your blog DIES.
ME: You are now the only thing keeping this blog alive?
YOU: Can you EVER be accurate? No, did not say I was the only thing keeping it alive.
All while questioning my accuracy.
poor nyr.....he wants me to leave because he doesn't want to be bitch slapped any more. You started the attacks on this thread, nyr....if you want to throw rocks, I can do that. If you want to have a sincere discussion about football, I can do that.
The anger on this site towards Reggie is not warranted. The anger on this site when the old regime was in charge, was warranted. Claiming dysfunction and the F.O being a mess, is unwarranted. Claiming the GM made mistakes is warranted but once again, NO GM IN HISTORY HAS HIT ON ALL HIS MOVES and if you look at the percentages, McKenzie is doing fine.
It's still playing out so this isn't done yet....but all signs are pointing in the direction I have been writing on here....that is a fact.
Me
"As far as your comment that Reggie has flopped on the roster more than he has positives. Seeing as he really didn't even have a draft the 1st year, starting at the 4th RD and using someone else's scouts."
Reggie flopped on the roster because: A) he did not evaluate the talent he had when he came aboard, which by the way, went 8-8. It wasn't the best of talent, but it wasn't 4-12 talent either. Because of that, he didn't bring in the right coaching staff to strengthen what was accomplished. Don't know who's to blame, Hue or Mark (for not being more assertive with Hue).
B) He dismantled everything in hopes to attract cheaper free agents because he had no draft; when he could have offered to restructure some of the horrendously high contracts, instead he outright cut the players. Not saying it was a bad move, but a hard pill to swallow when you don't have an effective plan to follow it.
C) Our team got older in the majority of positions, with no depth, and younger in key leadership positions.
D) He brought in a horrible staff, instead of retaining one that was mostly successful.
"2nd year, the draft was not a deep one, no teams cleaned up in that draft and yet Reggie still came out of it pretty good (still under review), Sio, DJ, Rivera, to name a few."
To say no one cleaned up in that draft is absurd. The Raiders could have drafted better and put themselves in a better position, instead they took DJ in the first round (a player we could've taken in the 3rd), and skipped Star Lotuleli, Kyle Long, DeAndre Hopkins, and Cordarelle Patterson; not too mention we traded down from the 5 spot (if i remember correctly) for that pick as well. So we could have had Ezekiel Ansah, Barkevious Mingo, or Dee Milliner as well.
They took Watson in the second round, instead of players like Kevin Minter, Le'Veon Bell, Montee Ball, and Eddie Lacy. Sio was a steal in the 3rd. They took Tyler Wilson in the 4th, but there wasn't much there in that round. So the Raiders and RM didn't do themselves any favors in that draft. That was also the year he signed Flynn.
LMFAO, Take, you are desperate and it's ugly. It's all you have, you can't stand up to the issues. You are pretty damn sad, dude. Good luck with that.
Me
Nate, so we are back to the 8-8 bullshit? Come on, it has been well established that the roster was full of duds. What have they done since leaving the roster? It's all that needs to be written on that.
The coaching thing is well established too, the why and the how, come on, can we get up to speed here?
As far as cutting everyone the next year, they saw it had to be rebuilt, that is very clear, looking back, the 1st 2 years were throw aways. Name any GM who could win with a 70 mill cap and no assets?
THE PLAN, was to CLEAN IT OUT and start over....when a GM is hired and walks into a franchise still in the 1970's....it can't be turned around in 1 off season. This is something this site just cannot grasp.
Reggie did evaluate the talent when he came aboard....that is why the next year he blew it up. They were terrible as evidenced by the play of those players since being cut.
If everyone had 20/20 hindsight like you, everyone's draft would have been amazing. Tell me one team who knocked it out of the park in that draft year.
Easy to look back and say this and that guy who really aren't great in their own rights. Book is still out on DJ, so don't count that pick as a failure. Watson, shaky, but he could still turn out.
Compared to the other teams, Reg didn't strike out like you make out. The armchair GM's who think they would hit on 90% of their moves if they were GM.....fucking kids.
Me
No, it's not all I have, but it's a succinct example of the polemical state of affairs here. Say something, and then immediately claim you didn't when it's right there for everyone to see, all while crowing about my "accuracy."
You can't make this stuff up.
SCAR, Nate, myself and others have articulated the course of things up to this point pretty clearly and rationally.
You say "class dismissed." I say, welcome to graduate school.
yeah right, that is why you totally ignore my points. LOOK IN THE MIRROR, Reggie hater.
Me
Raiders Draft History
2013
1. DJ Hayden, CB, Houston
2. Menelik Watson, T, Flordia State
3. Sio Moore, LB, Connecticut
4. Tyler Wilson, QB, Arkansas
6a. Nick Kasa, TE, Colorado
6b. Latavius Murray, RB, Central Florida
6c. Mychal Rivera, TE, Tennesee
6d. Stacy McGee, DT Oklahoma
7a. Brice Butler, WR, San Diego State
7b. David Bass, DE, Missouri Western State
2011
2. Stefen Wisniewski, C, Penn State
3a. DeMarcus Van Dyke, CB, Miami
3b. Joseph Barksdale, T, LSU
4a. Chimdi Chekwa, CB, Ohio State
4b. Taiwan Jones, RB, Eastern Washington
5. Denarius Moore, WR, Tennessee
6. Richard Gordon, TE Miami
7. David Ausberry, WR, USC
2010
1. Rolando McClain, LB, Alabama
2. Lamarr Houston, DT, Texas
3. Jared Veldheer, T, Hillsdale
4a. Bruce Campbell, T, Maryland
4b. Jacoby Ford, WR, Clemson
5. Walter McFadden, CB, Auburn
6. Travis Goethel, LB, Arizona State
7a. Jeremy Ware, CB, Michigan State
7b. Stevie Brown, S, Michigan
2009
1. Darrius Heyward-Bey, WR, Maryland
2. Mike Mitchell, S, Ohio University
3. Matt Shaughnessy, DE Wisconsin
4a. Louis Murphy, WR, Florida
4b. Slade Norris, LB, Oregon State
6a. Stryker Sulak, DE, Missouri
6b. Brandon Myers, TE, Iowa
2008
1. Darren McFadden, RB, Arkansas
4a. Tyvon Branch, DB, Connecticut
4b. Arman Shields, WR, Richmond
6. Trevor Scott, DE, Buffalo
7. Chaz Schilens, WR, San Diego State
2007
1. JaMarcus Russell, QB, LSU
2. Zach Miller, TE, Arizona State
3a. Quentin Moses, DE, Georgia
3b. Mario Henderson, OL, Florida State
3c. Johnnie Lee Higgins, WR, UTEP
4a. Michael Bush, RB, Louisville
4b. John Bowie, CB, Cincinnati
5a. Jay Richardson, DE, Ohio State
5b. Eric Frampton, S, Washington State
6. Oren O'Neal, FB, Arkansas State
7. Jonathan Holland, WR, Louisiana Tech
2006
1. Michael Huff, S, Texas
2. Thomas Howard, LB, Texas-El Paso
3. Paul McQuistan, OL, Weber State
4. Darnell Bing, S, USC
6. Kevin Boothe, OL, Cornell
7a. Chris Morris, C, Michigan State
7b. Kevin McMahan, WR, Maine
2005
1. Fabian Washington, CB, Nebraska
2. Stanford Routt, CB, Houston
3a. Andrew Walter, QB, Arizona State
3b. Kirk Morrison, LB, San Diego State
6a. Anttaj Hawthorne, DT, Wisconsin
6b. Ryan Riddle, LB, California
6c. Pete McMahon, OT, Iowa
"Nate, so we are back to the 8-8 bullshit? Come on, it has been well established that the roster was full of duds. What have they done since leaving the roster?"
Here's a better question. What have the Raiders done since going 8-8?
"Tell me one team who knocked it out of the park in that draft year."
I can't name one, I can name 3.
Cincy Bengals. TE Tyler Eifert, RB Gio Bernard, DE Margus Hunt, LB Sean Porter, OT Reid Fragel. Most people gave them an A after the draft.
Houston Texans. Most gave them a low A or B after the draft. WR DeAndre Hopkins, S D.J. Swearinger their best picks.
KC Chiefs. OT Eric Fisher, TE Travis Kelce, RB Knile Davis. Most gave an A.
"Easy to look back and say this and that guy who really aren't great in their own rights. Book is still out on DJ, so don't count that pick as a failure. Watson, shaky, but he could still turn out."
The grades attached to these teams after the draft prove that they are not "looking back". These 3 teams, with that draft that year, has produced the most starters.
The book maybe out on both DJ and Watson, but that's just my point! They were drafted too high, and we could have gotten better picks.
I'm not a GM, nor do I act like an arm chair GM. But Reggie was idiotic going after DJ and Watson that high, and that is not just from fans and media, that is from NFL players, coaches, and GMs. They have equated those two picks with Hue giving up what he did to get Carson Palmer. You cannot strike out that bad with your first picks in the first two rounds the way Reggie did, and call it successful.
If they come together this next year, those draft picks will be fine. You already calling them busts, it isn't time yet. DJ was ranked the top CB in the draft by scouts. And I haven't called it successful, but it isn't a flop or a whiff, YET.
If DJ, Watson work out, then it will turn into a good draft, right? Rivera and if Murray continues what we have seen, it will be as strong as any other's draft that year.
What have the Raiders done since 8-8? REBUILD A SHATTERED FRANCHISE, duhhh. Now it is in place to go way beyond the Hue pipe dream of 8-8 in a mediocre division and losing out to Tim Tebow....same old points, when are you guys going to get up to speed? Still whining about Hue, still crying about why wasn't it a playoff team after 2 years....yawn.
Me
Jones is totally dismissive of rational observations. In his mind, McKenzie has followed the only path available to him. And when the Raiders eventually grind out a winning season, anyone with a rationale cell in their brain will be asked to eat crow for not acquiescing to however many years of substandard results it’s going to take.
DJ was ranked in the top 5, but not the top. That spot belonged to Milliner. I'm not saying he is a bust, so I'm gonna have to ask you to quit putting words in my mouth. :)
I said he was drafted too high, we could have taken him in the 2nd round and been fine. Watson could have been picked later, or even signed as an undrafted free agent, which given his lack of experience, is where most scouts had him.
If DJ and Watson work out, it doesn't change the fact they were drafted too high.
The only team thing the Raiders had to "rebuild", is the same thing that "shattered" the franchise, and that was overpaying the players we had on the roster. The biggest job Reggie had coming into his position was building an organization that functioned well together. He did this at the neglect of the team and the talent we had. There was no need to blow up the players here, unless they were unwilling to restructure their contracts. Reggie didn't even attempt to because they weren't "his guys". Not a smart move.
But you're right, it is in the past. He now has a solid foundation to build something special. He has no more excuses. This will be his make or break year as a GM for me.
Say what? No need to blow up players? Are you serious? Where are those players today? And what did they do when they left?
CULTURE, he and Mark changed it and are changing it in a big way. Still crying about Veld? Houston? Jennings? Pryor....whatever, that isn't good enough, so why sign to long term?
THINK, he signed all the aging vets to short expendable contracts. He is REBUILDING through the draft. FFS's, this stuff has been gone over how many times? You guys all sound the same....= we love Hue, Reggie should have kept the old core.....blah blah bullshit....just dumb, SMH.
Me
"The only team thing the Raiders had to "rebuild", is the same thing that "shattered" the franchise, and that was overpaying the players we had on the roster"
That is the most ridiculous statement, you and nyr, SCAR = clones.
Troll city
Oh, btw, did you see Del Rio say he needs to upgrade the facilities now to attract the players he wants, and get the players in shape to win? Hmmm, where did I hear that before? Oh yeah, I said it yesterday.
According to Scott Bair of CSNBayArea.com, Del Rio has plans to improve the team’s current training facility in Alameda in hopes of getting the unit up to the standards of the rest of the league.
“It was kind of like how I felt about taking the job,” Del Rio said. “I knew there was work to be done, and I’m excited about having the opportunity to mold this place and make an impact. We’ve got some plans that you’ll see unfold with the weight room and the fields that the players are going to be very excited about when they get back.
“We want to make sure that everything we’re doing every day gives us an opportunity to win our division and be in position to win championships.”
Curious. It took 3+ years and a replacement HC to realize the facilities were substandard compared to the rest of the league?
Is this another, "there weren't any other options" saga?
Kudos to Del Rio for expanding his responsibilities to do all he can to improve the program.
It appears he will also take a bigger role in personnel than perhaps Allen did. He's already implied that MJD might not be part of the plan. Because he knows MJD was done before last year....
As found in Sports Illustrated
Reggie McKenzie knew he faced a significant challenge when he was announced as general manager of the Raiders on Jan. 6, 2012. Over the previous nine years the team had gone through six head coaches, and it had lost at least 11 games in an NFL-record seven straight seasons. Oakland’s last winning campaign, in ’02, was a millennium ago by NFL calendars.
Still, the depths of the struggle might not have truly hit McKenzie until several months after his hiring, when he changed into his workout gear and headed to the back of the team’s Alameda training facility, where his long jog around the practice fields was spoiled by wildly uneven footing and goose droppings.
If the choppy grass fields were hazardous to a 49-year-old such as himself, he thought, imagine the dangers for players. In the previous two seasons alone, running backs Darren McFadden and Marcel Reece, wideouts Jacoby Ford and Denarius Moore, defensive tackles Richard Seymour and Tommy Kelly and linebacker Rolando McClain had been hobbled by or missed significant time because of lower-body injuries.
When McKenzie asked who was responsible for the upkeep of the fields, which were riddled with dirt patches, the answer stunned him. The Raiders did not employ a full-time, on-site groundskeeper. Instead, the work was outsourced to a local company—astounding considering that the difference between the playoffs and a pink slip could easily come down to a turned ankle, a jammed toe, a tweaked knee or a pulled hamstring.
The field conditions were just the first of many reminders that restoring greatness to a franchise whose mottos had included “Pride and Poise” and “A Commitment to Excellence” would be about much more than just hiring a new coach and ridding the roster of its bloated contracts and underachieving players. It would be about transforming an entire culture and overhauling an organizational model that had become stale and outdated after nearly five decades under Al Davis, the iconic and imperious owner who died of heart failure at age 82 in October 2011.
McKenzie knows he must be spot-on in this year’s draft. Oakland has the No. 3 pick and the fourth pick of the third round, but its second-round selection belongs to Cincinnati as part of a 2011 swap for Carson Palmer. He’d love to trade down for more choices, because the Raiders are far more than one player from being relevant again. But if he’s unable to find a trade partner, then he has to find impact players with his high picks. Imagine the best draft ever. If McKenzie replicates that, his team is mediocre at best.
And so, much of the G.M.’s energy the last 15 months has been spent on upgrading Oakland’s scouting and personnel departments. When he went to view the club’s draft room last year, he discovered that none existed, so he had one built from scratch. When he requested the team’s scouting questionnaires for evaluating college prospects, he learned there weren’t any, so he created them.
Such resources are givens in most NFL organizations—but not with the Raiders and Davis, who had his own way of doing business. He was the only owner who didn’t use one of the national scouting services for college prospects, and the only one who didn’t subscribe to the psychological-testing program available to each team before the draft.
Davis was so behind the times that even toward the end he didn’t allow employees to use direct deposit, and he kept the budget for coaching and support staffs in his head rather than on paper. In his video department, the software was tragically outdated.
* NOTE : The Press Release person was fired after this SI article.
2016. It's coming. Since 2012. Let's be patient and get it done.
SCAR
I'm liking what I'm reading...
Just in case, somehow anyone reading this blog doesn't also read McDonald,,
http://www.ibabuzz.com/oaklandraiders/2015/02/12/raiders-coach-jack-del-rio-busy-evaluating-roster-discusses-new-coaches-new-mindset-new-appraoches/
SCAR
Nobody has suggested McKenzie's task wasn't daunting. But why, after how many years since that article, is the facility still substandard?
So far, to my knowledge, the only follow-up we have is Del Rio's assessment, which isn't good.
See what happens when the quality of Coaches go up? The quality all around goes up. A HC who pushes for what is right and best and an Owner who will pay up.
Did Allen have the nuts to tell Mark to upgrade? Did Mark want it done? Did Reggie think it was good enough? The HC now says it isn't, it is being updated, that is GOOD, not bad.
Why hasn't Reggie built a new Stadium yet?
Me
"Nobody has suggested McKenzie's task wasn't daunting"....
What a fence jumper....do you have any pride?
Me
Wait, Reggie was concerned a player would slip on moose droppings, and hurt himself.
Yet Reggies first draft pick was DJ Hayden.
I don't understand.
Once again dismissive and critical of even the most obvious observation, this time by the HC. Upgrading a practice facility that is so substandard that it might impact being able to sign quality free agents is hardly a minor oversight, nor should it be compared to building a new stadium.
Almost four years is a long time for something like that to go unchecked.
All part of making the Raiders a cutting edge franchise as opposed to one stuck in the 1970's. Maybe Reggie should be clicking his heels and asking if he is in Kansas anymore? Maybe then it would go fast enough for you? Then you say you understand the undertaking....= no you don't, you never have and you never will.
It's the same as the hiring of all the conditioning, nutritionists etc...was that Reggie's fault too? How bout the holocaust, Reggie's fault?
Me
Davis, McKenzie, and Del Rio are all on the same page and right track. A huge undertaking when newbies Davis, McKenzie, and Allen started the project in 2012. It might be considered by many Raider fans as too slow in terms of progress but the needle is DEFINITELY pointing upwards. Every fan has their own unique perspective. Mine is to learn but not dwell on the past. I like how things are coming together ... more importantly, I'm excited and optimistic about the future.
Can’t dismiss history. Isn’t that what McKenzie and Allen did when they took over the Raiders? They didn’t even scout the team they inherited. They just implemented scheme, and they failed miserably.
So perhaps there's a fine line between dwelling on the past and learning from mistakes.
Del Rio says all the right things about playing to the strengths of his players, but I hope there is substance to his words.
Carr was recently quoted as saying the game [the way the Raiders played] was “too slow” for him. He spent his college career playing shotgun and hurry up offense. Del Rio and Musgrave have both acknowledged they intend to run a faster paced offense in this vein.
Clearly, Carr is more comfortable running a fast pace offense. 50 TDs his last year in college should be proof enough.
So making Carr call plays in the huddle and line up under center would not be playing to his strength, as we saw at times last year.
Dwelling on the past won't improve the present day conditions. Learning from the past will.
There isn't a 'fine line' between the two. It is two distinct mindsets. The former is negative and stuck in quick sand. The latter is positive and solutions oriented.
Raiders were 300-1 in Vegas...now they are 60-1.....Vegas doesn't do this unless they KNOW. Vegas knows, players know, LMFAO....truth, coming to a mind near you....it's just a matter of time before the haters can no longer cry DYSFUNCTION.
It will be obvious even to them that the Raiders are getting close. Nothing better than truth in this world...it's the best.
Me
The main reason people are talking about the past here is that someone keeps screaming about past takes.
So Reggie and the Raiders start getting their act together, and Vegas increases their odds. What a concept.
This has been the main discussion. You and your minions are on constant attack about all the mistakes, you know, drafting DJ/Watson, trading for Flynn/Schaub, Hiring DA and Knapp.....yeah, SOMEONE is more than 1, unless you are playing all the characters here, RT?
It isn't a case of getting one's act together, it was a BIG PROCESS and it takes time....this has been the whole argument for a long time on here.
Now you pretend it's SOMEONE who won't stop? You are a weasel, no other way to put it. You can't admit any of the points brought to you, all you can say is 11-37.....no mind to reason with is a horrible thing, RT.
I am a Raider
No, there is one person here, and one person only, who is oozing anger and using any improvement of the Raiders as a drum to keep beating about past takes to determine who is, and who is not, a Raider.
That is the only reason we're still talking about DA, Schaub or whoever, because you keep pressing the point, which requires others to defend their past takes, and then you're "shocked" that they're talking about DA and Schaub, etc.
The rest of us are happy to have civil debates about this "process." Unlike you, we have real takes in real time about the ups and downs of the Raiders, instead of declaring everything a positive and waiting for the results to catch up.
Take your act elsewhere, it's boring and not as intimidating as you'd like to believe.
You say this blog dies without you. Great, give it a shot. See ya.
As usual, you would rather discredit and blame because you are to afraid to stand up to the issues you raise. You can't stand on your BS so you go another route to try and make it go away.
You made your bed, I just like pointing it out to you. I can go away, or I can continue to tell it like it is. You have this blog for discussion, I discuss, you discredit.
You want me gone because you know you are done, the only way you continue is if I leave. If I stay and keep shoving the truth up your ass, you will eventually give up. You made the game, I will end it, not you.
I am a Raider
I've dealt with much worse over the past 10 years. Good luck with your hate trip.
My takes are here for all to see and I stand by all of them.
I won't be baited into restating them, at least not for you.
Enjoy the silence.
.....you can't refute them, that is why you won't, no more of your multiple personalities?
Me
Hey Guys,
With the draft coming up I hope the Raiders can get Williams but given he probably will not fall that far, I would be good with Cooper.
Bottom line is that even though we knew things had to get worse before better when Reggie took over. It has now been three years and any improvements have been almost non-existent. In fact the Raiders were a better team and much more enjoyable to watch in Hue's last year, this can not be disputed. 52-0 to St. Louis should effectively end all debate.
You can still count the number of true building blocks on one hand. (Carr, Mack, Moore, maybe Jackson, maybe Murray). Guys like Justin Ellis, TJ Carrie, Rivera are fillers that you can find on any team. Not saying they are terrible but they are not solid young potential all pro building blocks.
I still strongly advocate for Reggie being fired.
Either way they need to hit it big on their first pick, let's hope they do.
Regards
Sandy
Sandy -
Williams or Cooper would be tremendous. However, there is talk that the Browns might consider a trade if Mariotta is still on the board at 4-5. Between injuries and rehab, Browns have failed to find a true franchise QB.
Here's the kicker! They have two first round picks this year... and that's the price (or should be the price) to move up to #4.
As you point out, the Raiders have so many needs (and a GM that believes he can only build thru the draft), that securing two first round picks trumps having the #4 pick.
If my math serves me, that would give the Raiders three picks in the first 36 overall. Huge!
"and a GM that believes he can only build thru the draft"
This statement/opinion is categorically false. The Raiders will sign numerous free agents this off-season. You know this to be true NYR so I'm not sure why you would make such a statement.
It is these types of 'black or white' 'all or nothing' type statements that serve no purpose (but to neatly fit your narrative) and are quite frankly, ignorant.
CJ,
Why don't you take a chill pill on NY. Its just semantics, saying Reggie only believes he can build thru the draft might just be Reggie being honest with himself AS IN HE IS NOT CAPABLE OF SIGNING QUALITY FAs so he should only build thru draft.
Or pardon me where you cool with Woodley, Schaub, Flynn, Smith, MJD and every other useless washed up bum Reggie has brought in? Wait lets give him credit for Penn who he had to sign because he was too dumb to retain Veldheer
At least with the draft Reggie seems to be going 1 for 2 not counting 2012
Regards
Sandy
NY
I like the idea of trading down but if not cooper they must get a quality d-lineman armstead, gregory, ray shelton I am afraid if they trade out of top 10 they miss one of these guys
Regards
Sandy
Jack -
Isn't that what we are being told? McKenzie has said as much himself. Also, he made little to no effort in re-signing key free agents like Veldheer, at what would have been a fair market rate.
Sure, he will sign numerous free agents, but he's proven that approach is mostly stopgap, swapping out free agents at the same position annually.
It's fortunate that Penn was available after McKenzie whiffed with Safford. Granted Raiders haven't had many FAs worthy of pursuit, but a solid LT is probably one of them.
This year's Veldheer is Wiz. Not that we can’t upgrade the position, but center is now a position of need.
There you go Jack, pretty hard to have a 'discussion' with meatheads like them.
The site director complains that the rhetoric is still about BEFORE and wants to blame it on one poster.....but as we see, if those who keep screaming about the past are screaming what RT wants to hear...it's all good.
If the points made do not fit that agenda, it will be ignored and the poster discredited. It's the oldest game on the Net and it seems the owner of this site is very well versed in using it.
Rememeber Jack, this is all just an 'experiment' for RT, he REALLY doesn't give a shit other than trying to deceive people. It's a game Jack, their sincerity is NIL.
Me
the personal attacks are soooo old and tired. geez. state your opinion and stand by it. others may agree or disagree. thats it!!! and its ok, supposed to work like that.
"if you don't agree with this your just blind and stupid!!!" <----statements like theses are unwanted, unneeded and just sound soo childish. they discredit everything else you just said.
is this kid for real? did he just call RT a cross posting troll? holy shit, every time, same thing, different victim.
well gotta give him credit tho, he's consistent. systematically grinding thru a followership of a blog near you!!!
frkyraider
Wed, 18 Feb 2015 2:40 PM ET
Raiders coach Jack Del Rio told reporters, via the San Francisco Chronicle, at the NFL combine that Austin Howard will return to right tackle for the 2015 season.
The only way Howard won't be Oakland's right tackle, Del Rio said, is if Menelik Watson beats him out for the spot. Howard started 16 games in 2014 but was used at right guard.
Howard signed a five-year, $30 million deal with Oakland prior to the 2014 season.
"I think they're ready now," McKenzie said. "I don't think you can just say those three names and expect to go through the full season. I still think you need one or two more. My point is, I don't think you need that old cagey, savvy veteran to help bring along. I think they're at a point now where they played, I've got Charles Woodson in the room, they got to understand that this is how we approach the game, this is how we're going to approach each play. I don't need that particular guy. If it's a guy that can come in and be a great starter, yes. If he can be a great backup, not only at the corner position but safety, D-line, every position we're going to upgrade."
INDIANAPOLIS — While he wouldn’t exactly pinpoint his precise free-agency plan, Oakland Raiders’ general manager Reggie McKenzie made it clear — he is looking to get better once free agency starts March 10.
"We need to get stronger," McKenzie said Wednesday. "We’re going to go after some real players.
The Raiders may have upwards of $60 million in salary-cap room. Last year, the Raiders had more than $60 million and signed aging players to short-term deals. The Raiders finished 3-13 in 2014.
McKenzie was somewhat vague when talking about his team’s plans because he doesn’t want to give anything away. I got the sense Oakland will be players for some of the top of the line free agents, but he also wants get more than a few quality players.
"Now we’re looking for some guys who can come in and be impact (players)," McKenzie said. "I got a big checklist. … We need players. What I won’t do is pinpoint one position and regardless of how the draft falls, regardless, if you just target one position and I’m going to get that position. Any position we have a chance to upgrade we’re going to do it. We’re going after starter-type guys."
As for top in-house free agent, Stefen Wisniewski, McKenzie said talks are ongoing. He didn’t give any hints of where it is heading, even though there has been some recent indications that Wisniewski, may indeed, hit free agency and leave. Wisniewski was a second-round pick in 2011 and if he leaves, it will continue a trend of young starters leaving Oakland after their rookie contract ended. McKenzie is concerned about that.
"It’s going to be case by case. Nobody’s going to make me push the panic button to overvalue a player," McKenzie said. "That’s where you get into trouble."
Isn't this the same thing he said last season going into free agency? Oh yeah, it is....
"Last year, I felt like we needed more role players," McKenzie said Wednesday. "Now we're looking for some guys who can come in and be impact (players). Be starters. More so. So in volume, that way, I'm looking for less volume that way. I don't need as many backup players. We need to get stronger. We're going to go after some real players."
Offseason is a time for great anticipation, but the results remain to be seen.
Media report Wiz and Raiders are far apart. Regardless, McKenzie's idea of "overpaying" is all relative. He was ready to pay Safford more than he probably needed to secure Veldheer.
If we can take solace in anything as free agency approaches, it's that McKenzie will have superior counsel from his now more experienced coaching staff than he had with Allen, Tarver and Co. It was this group, along with Sparano who hatched the idea to move Howard to guard. What a colossal mistake.
Listening to Del Rio, it seems he is primed to have a significant influence over personnel, and probably more than Allen ever had.
It's Del Rio who can perhaps bring Knighton to the Raiders. However, it will be up to McKenzie to "overpay" if he wants this team to get bigger and stronger.
Of course Del Rio will have a say in who comes in FA. Unlike your comment 'nyr', that players will go anywhere as long as the money is good. Players do care where they play and the HC has a BIG part in that. Del Rio brings clout, period.
No, Reggie doesn't have to overpay, that is what happened before, remember? If Oakland is a good destination for a players CAREER and the money is right, they will come now. Because the Team has been put in a position it hasn't been in since Gruden.
Raiders are now in a position to attract better players, better coaches...it all goes together. That would not be possible if Reggie was a token GM and Mark was calling the shots.....get over it.
Wiz is avg at best, why would Reggie OVERPAY for avg? Because of his name? Because Al Davis drafted him? That doesn't mean ANYTHING anymore. It's PERFORMANCE based and Wiz isn't good enough. Guess all the crying, like you did with Veld, will start soon...Get your hanky ready.
I am a Raider
Jones,
Vegas also released the first iteration win totals yesterday...
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/18/win-total-over-unders-seahawks-patriots-lead-list-raiders-bring-up-the-rear/
OAK is 4.5. Dead last.
Coincidentally, they were the same number for most of the 2014 off season. As tempting as it was, I'm glad I didn't agree with how bullish you were last off season and make a wager... would have cost me dearly.
Sounds like easy money again this year right. But Vegas doesn't do this unless they know...
The5er
Happy to keep Wiz at fair market value since he can play both Center and OG. My view on Wiz is that he is an ok depth player but that we need to find a Center who is a step up from him talent-wise.
The 5er playing the role of Scar/nyr/nate/...on and on....I think my prediction was 9-7 at best last year and no way did I predict a SB....and the beat goes on....and the beat goes on.
Me
Wiz at fair value and not relied upon to be the Starting C....a depth player sounds about right. Doesn't sound like Wiz see's it that way.
This should be a very telling off season. And the whine-o-meter is going to be off the roof, if top FA's aren't signed. Seems to be a better crop of FA's to pick from this year?
Me
Then there is the joint statement with the Chargers about sharing a stadium in LA. Why do I get the feeling the Raiders are about to get screwed on this? Oh yeah, because they are. They would have to move out of the AFC to the NFC for that to happen.
Meaning that if the Rams stay in St. Louis, they will be the new AFC West team, and the Raiders will join the NFC West. I think the Chargers get the stadium, the Rams build their own stadium in LA, and either the Raiders play there, or the Rams play there. If the latter, then the Raiders get screwed; and I feel like it will be the latter.
Today's news on LA was the most exciting thing to happen to the Raiders in years.
Regards
Sandy
Only a patriots fan would think the Raiders moving to LA is a good thing. Even those in LA, at least the real fan, not just the thug fan, feel that the Raiders home is in Oakland. Only a FAKE would want them to move again.
Me
WRs White and Cooper having good combines. White is slightly faster, which could push his draft stock up, because he's bigger than Cooper. Both are insanely talented.
Cooper 6 drops in 130 catchable balls (in what is being called a pro-style offense).
White 8 drops in 116 catchable balls.
Many think Cooper is the better route runner. That's something the Raiders and Carr desperately need. White is lightning fast and great after the catch (YAC!)
Assuming at least one of the top two QBs go before the Raiders pick at #4, our #1 pick should be a slam dunk for McKenzie, again this year.
If both WRs are gone at #4, then Williams from USC!
Jones only a dumb ass like you would want the Raiders to continue to play in the worst stadium in pro sports and remain perpetually broke or is that part of the tanking strategy
Yeah, that's exactly what I want....what do I want for lunch? You know that too?
Me
Knowing you Jones you probably want a giant shit sandwich for lunch, you know something to match what comes out of your mouth
Oakland is not a viable economically for the Raiders. Even if they could somehow find the funds (Mark does not have them, the city is broke) to build a stadium in Oak we are talking about a boutique 50k type seating, with minimal corporate sponsorship and lux boxes, I am sure the NFL does not want that.
Yes Oakland Raiders is the real tradition but at this point the situation is terrible at all levels, stadium, the team on the field, finances of the team, leadership from the owner all the way down etc. This is why I say LA it would be the first good move in years and maybe could be a spark.
Moving to LA make sense there is a huge Raider fan base in southern cali, it helps the team economically, will generate real cash flow. This can only help the Raiders be competitive at all levels.
Regards
Sandy
I think the NFL will contribute up to $250M. With Davis chipping in (perhaps selling part of the team to help finance), Alamedia and Oakland could bond fund the rest of a project if they wanted to.
The right thing probably would have been to share a stadium with the 49ers. That project went over budget but the ownership has reportedly recovered nicely with sales, including naming rights.
Understandably, it could be difficult for Oakland to justify building a stadium as long as the Raiders remain at the bottom of the NFL.
Maybe that will change in the next couple years and something can be done. If the Raiders intend to move before they become relevant again, they may end up in San Antonio.
Oakland is still reeling from the "upgrades" that Al made, which is to the tune of $120 million left, out of an original $200 million. So in 20 years since the Raiders have been back, they have only paid off $80 million of the debt. How will that debt play into a new stadium?
This is why Oakland doesn't want to build another stadium, on top of fear of losing the revenues they "receive" if they allow the Raiders to build their own stadium (which the Raiders and A's lease).
The city and county of Oakland/Alameda officials are not smart enough to figure this out and make this happen, and this is a testament as to why the city continues to struggle (and the state for that matter) incompetent leadership.
NY, Raider Nate, RT,
How do you guys feel about LA. Have you seen the pics it looks awesome. Don't you think this is a huge jump start for the Raiders. The value of the franchise will go up significantly.
Regards
Sandy
Sandy, Oakland is the obvious pick but LA would be the next best option, IMO. I probably still have a hat or shirt that says LA Raiders.
Del Rio is banking on a remodeled training facility to jump start the Raiders. So it might be fair to suggest a new stadium would do that and more. Even if they ink a deal today, it would take years to complete.
Increased value: yes. But if Mark Davis plans to sell, he should do it before he spends his own money on a stadium. Overpaying for pro sports franchises seems to be the trend right now.
Raiders could end up in LA, San Antonio or even San Diego or St Louis. Maybe it doesn't matter. New generation of fans only know the Raiders as losers.
Sandy,
I would love for the Raiders to stay in Oakland, and if they could they would. But the city of Oakland and the County of Alameda officials are not smart enough to work that out with them, nor do they have the savvy to figure out the debt still owed on Mt. Davis upgrade. This is the biggest sticking point against the Raiders.
The simple solution would be for the Raiders/NFL to pay off the debt on those upgrades; but of course the NFL and the Raiders want a stadium, but want the city/county to fork over the majority of cash.
I feel that Los Angeles stadium looks awesome, but according to CSN Bay Area and other media reports, the Raiders would have to move to the NFC. I don't like that move. The only way it wouldn't have to be this way is if the Raiders used the stadium only, because the Chargers worked out their own with San Diego. But if the Raiders/Chargers end up sharing, it will be at the expense of the Raiders moving to the NFC West and St Louis moving the the AFC West.
With that said, if the LA deals end up being a shared stadium deal with the Chargers; being in Austin, TX, I'd rather them move to San Antonio over LA at this point.
I'm really excited about the plans laid forth by San Antonio. It fits with what Mark Davis wants, a 60,000 seat stadium. Of course, I'm totally being selfish here, but I would love for the Raiders to be that close to me so I can take my boy to games. I hope it doesn't happen, because really, Oakland is where the Raiders belong; and I am looking forward to taking my son to a game in Oakland (possibly this next season, if things continue to go south).
Now there's talk the NFL is sending surveys to fans in St. Louis to gauge development of a new stadium.
Perhaps one of the survey questions should read; "would you support the Raiders if they move to St. Louis?"
Four cities appear to be vying to retain or relocate an NFL franchise, and Oakland doesn't appear to be one of those cities.
San Antonio sounds like the biggest offer for the Raiders... you might get your wish, RN.
Oakland, LA, San Antonio ... whatever city can step up to provide a state of the art, modern stadium has my blessing.
Of course, I would prefer/hope that the Raiders stay in Oakland BUT playing in a complete shit-hole is unacceptable for a $1B franchise.
My 2nd choice is definitely LA since I know there are just as many loyal Raider fans in LA as in Oakland.
Raiders home is Oakland.....anything else is just a replica and not the real thing. JDR made it clear that it was one of his sticking points, that they do everything they can to stay in Oakland. Mark has made it very clear his 1st choice is to stay in Oakland. A good FA period and another good draft and Oakland City is going to realize what many on here are slow to realize = Raiders are an NFL team again and will be a cash cow if a new stadium is built in Oakland.
Me
If it were solely up to the Raiders it would be done right now; but it is not. The city/county have blocked them from looking at other locations to build around where they are. The Raiders presented a plan last year that would have them a stadium/city park similar to what the 9ers and Lakers have done; and the city rejected it. Voted down their rights to get building permits, etc.
I agree with you that the Raiders belong to Oakland, and that Oakland is their home, but the city and county do not.
It's quite possible a stadium decision will need to be made before the Raiders reach relevancy again, which could hurt the their chances of staying in Oakland. Seems like the topic is really heating up and the Raiders may need to be prepared to decide quickly if they want to benefit from any leverage that currently exists.
CJ, I hear you the stadium in Oakland is a total shit hole. It's the reason I stopped making my once a year pilgrimage to go to a game. Even more than the fact they suck its the quality of the stadium that is the turn off. Waiting in line to cross that ass bridge to get to the Bart after the game just sucks, the tarped stands, the sewage problems, a friggin baseball diamond on the field and everything else sucks. It contributes greatly to the laughing stock they already are.
Guys lets face it Oakland is broke they are not building a stadium for the Raiders and Mark's idea of building a 50k seat stadium is foolish and bs. Mark has no money, the Davis family has one asset the Raiders. Furthermore they sold off a bunch of shares years ago just to sign Javon Walker etc. Is he going ot leverage the team to the hilt to build something? That could be financial suicide.
The only legit chance to stay in the Bay Area Mark blew by not teaming up with the Niners. In fact that is the only way I see the Raiders in the Bay area 3 years from now by sharing a stadium with the niners.
Nate-Dog, you are solid bro and you know I love Austin as we have chatted about before but I am sorry whatever tiny little bit of mystique that is left after Al passed will quickly dissipate if they move anywhere but LA.
As CJ said they have a fan base there and some history.
The day the Raiders move to socal the value of the franchise goes up 50% that helps create cash flow for players, facilities, coaches etc.
Most important of all, in the NFL more than any other sport home field advantage is huge. Just look at Seattle to know what a good stadium can do for your team.
LETS GET BACK TO LA
Regards
Sandy
If the Raiders are financially strapped, it's about to get worse. Turns out that they have some catching up to do w/r/t the CBA-mandated minimum spending. Raiders two-year avg spending is about 80% of the salary cap, and they need to be closer to 90% to meet the min threshold.
At +/- $60M below the cap this year, McKenzie will need to start writing bigger checks... possibly ones that Davis can't afford.
Sandy,
I hear ya. I grew up in LA area when the Raiders were there. I know a lot of California transplants here in Austin (myself included), and they are huge Raiders fans. I know that if the Raiders moved to San Antonio, they would have a solid fan base.
I don't think the Davis family's only asset is the Raiders. They own a lot of private investment, funds, companies, etc. Al was a lawyer who knew how to invest and muscle his way into anything he wanted. Al, toward the end of his days, was losing investments because people didn't want to invest with him; and that is where the Raiders currently are. Mark is trying to repair the burnt bridges his dad lit. The sad thing is, like NY mentioned, with the CBA requirements, these requirements may be too much for Mark to keep up with, and he may be forced to sell. If he is forced to sell, I think that is where it becomes possible that the Raiders leave California.
Now to your point, whatever tiny bit of mystique is left after Al passed would dissipate if they moved out of California; I absolutely agree with. At the same time, under new ownership, it may not be a bad thing.
Moving on,
We have so many holes to fill, but some moves have been made that I am keeping my eye on. Yesterday, AJ Hawk was cut by the Packers, and has expressed that the Raiders are on his radar because Reggie is the scout who drafted him. I think that would be a solid move that could help replace Roach at MLB, and solidify our LB core of Mack, Hawk, and Moore! Ah man, that gives me chilly bumps typing that out. The only way our LB core gets better is if the Niners cut Patrick Willis and the Raiders pick him up. Add DL Terrance Knighton to the mix, and our D is starting to look a little more solid.
I think we draft Kevin White (WR) in the first round, couple that with a solid vet WR like Cobb or Torrey Smith, we are set at that position and upgrade Carr's weapons. With Mychal Rivera, I don't think we need Julius Thomas.
We could focus on two areas for a RB. I love Murray, but Del Rio says he is not ready just yet to be the premiere back. So we either draft one, or sign one. If we sign one, I think we should give Ray Rice a chance. I don't think the Vikings release Peterson, I think they hold him hostage. But if he were to be released, you know the Raiders would go after him. I say even if we sign a RB like that, we draft one in later rounds. Ameer Abdullah (Nebraska) would be a solid 3-4 round pick, as would Javorious Allen (USC).
Another area we need to improve quickly is CB/DB. I think we could draft Jalen Collins (LSU) in the 2nd Round, or if we trade down and pick up 2 first round picks from the Browns, we can still get White and with the second pick possibly get Trae Waynes (Mich St).
If we go after a vet FA, then I would look at Kareem Jackson (Texans), Antoine Cason (Ravens), Robert McClain (Falcons), Antonio Cromartie (Cards), or Bradley Fletcher.
We definitely need another Guard (Iupati?), or we draft one. Arie Kouandjio (Bama) or Josua Matias (FSU) we could get in the 3rd Round. Unless we sign a Center, and move Wiz to RG, which I don't really see happening. If we sign Wiz, we keep him at Center.
It's going to be a make or break offseason for the Raiders. The Free Agent signings and the Draft Picks need to be solid. We'll see what happens. JUST WIN, BABY!
The roster could go many different directions, and it will certainly be interesting to watch.
With respect to the CBA spending rule, worst case is Reggie remains frugal with his spending and the Raiders end up next year in a penalty situation, having to pay opportunity wages without the benefit of big-time players.
From what I understand, the ratio is averaged over a 4-year period, and the Raiders current 2-year average, again, is about 80%. That would make it critical for McKenzie/Davis to spend heavy this year and next year to increase the Raiders 4-year avg.
So while getting the books in order in Oakland was a good thing, it may have been overdone.
To be fair, a few other teams are in the same predicament; Pats included.
Nate you on fire today
First on the stadium issue. I would be interested where you read about the Davis's money if you have any articles I would love to read them. Its hard to find details on Al's wealth.
From what I understand Al had some real estate but that was about it. I am of the opinion that Davis family is among the very bottom rung when it comes to ownership wealth.
Hence Al's sale of 20% 8 years ago. http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2007/11/20071119/This-Weeks-News/Minority-Sale-Gives-Raiders-Value-Of-At-Least-$750-Million.aspx?hl=New%20York%20One&sc=0
to raise money for FA
Notice the Raiders have gone up only about 200mm in eight years which is about 30% meanwhile the avg nfl team went up 25% in the last 2 years. Don't thinks its mere coincedence with the product on the fiels. The best teams are generally the richest with exception of the redskins
On to your player recommendations. I am down your FA choices of Knighton, and Willis but Hawk has no more left in the tank than Woodley or Smith did.
Have a good night
Sandy
Knowing how little AL did to prepare the organization for his eventual departure, I'd guess he made the same insufficient effort to prepare his estate. At some point, there could be a substantial IRS bill to pay. That event alone could force Mark Davis out of football.
As far as team valuation, I wouldn't make too much of Forbes or other published figures. How much were the Clippers worth? And no pro sports team has better branding than the Raiders. That's probably something we can all agree, with some bias of course.
Your right NY if the Raiders were sold today it would be for more than 900 mm they are listed in Forbes. That being said when it comes to generating revenue the Raiders are among the lowest ranked teams in the NFL.
I concur with you there is a lot of unrealized potential in the Raider brand
Have a good weekend
Sandy
Here's another article about the CBA spending rule as it potentially impacts the Raiders.
http://www.csnbayarea.com/raiders/raiders-have-plenty-cap-room-long-way-spending-floor
The Raiders will need to spend at or very near the salary cap this year and next year to prevent from a paying penalty which would be distributed to players up and above their contract pay.
Essentially, McKenzie and Davis have no choice but to make a huge splash in free agency this year and probably next year in order to avoid wasting the money on nothing!
In my estimation, the best short and long term plan would be for Davis to sell a majority interest in the franchise to a buyer who would have the means to build a state of art facility. At one point, this was a viable option with Ed Roski involved:
http://www.losangelesfootballstadium.com/
Well said CJ. That would accomplish two things get a new stadium and get rid of Mark
I am not suggesting to get rid of Davis completely since he would still own a piece of the Raiders. Selling a majority stake i the franchise would mean he still would have a vested interest and association with the Raiders.
The less Mark has to do with the team the better. I have not seen one good decision from him yet. Reggie, Stadium, Coaches you name it Mark is a Tommy Boy type who is competent
meant incompetent
I disagree. I hate the thought of the Davis family not owning the Raiders. The problem has long been not having the right people to make the decisions. That dates back long before Mark took over.
NY
I once would have agreed with you. But after seeing three years of Mark, he is only a link to his father's greatness in name.
Look at Mark's Bio he has accomplished nothing in his life. I think he did one year at Chico State, never has run a business etc etc. Most of the other owners in the NFL are super successful people and it shows in their management skills.
It seems whatever was left of the Raiders mystique died with Al. Now they are just like any other crap team.
While Mark has shown no acumen on the business side of things, no new stadium, tarping off the top deck and sparse crowds etc.
Worse he is getting involved in the football part of the equation not staying passive etc. Not that he can be any worse than Reggie but its become painfully obvious why his father never involved him and kept him in the background.
I would love to see an intelligent deep pocketed owner take over from the Davis family.
Regards
Sandy
Sandy said, "Notice the Raiders have gone up only about 200mm in eight years which is about 30% meanwhile the avg nfl team went up 25% in the last 2 years."
Most of that has to do with how the team is marketed. The Raiders have a very simple marketing scheme for the team that is going to get what they get like clock work, and that is get the players out in the public signing autographs and doing things. Not bad, but when was the last time (before Carr and Mack) that we really had anyone people wanted to see?
The brass needs to find better ways to market the team to the community and their fan base. Some of what they currently do has to do with Al's "mystique" that is quite frankly out-dated. People who invest in the team want to feel like they are a part of the team, and have some knowledge about the direction of the team; instead of being held at arms length on the outside of everything. They want more than the general answers given to media.
Al kept how he made his money private, his first private investment was AD Football, Inc. More than likely a lot of his investments were probably real estate related (much like Donald Trump and George Steinbrenner).
Not much is really known about Al's private investments, and that is exactly the way he wanted it.
The bottom line, even before Al passed, the "mystique of the Raiders" was becoming a tired ploy. The best thing for Mark to do is to not just undo the burned bridges with the League his father started; but quit looking at the past and move forward. Yes, all Raiders fans know of the greatness of the Raiders from yester-yore, and we will never forget it. But we want the greatness of the Raiders today, and to acheive that is to have your marketing, game plan, and organization running in today, not yester-yore.
I'm not sure the increase in Raiders' valuation had to do with the Raiders, specifically. Raiders, as a franchise, earn from profit sharing. All the NFL teams were probably up in value because the NFL has signed some very lucrative TV deals, etc. Plus, I think the best revenue producing teams are carrying the worst teams... like the Raiders.
Raiders could have been going in reverse and still increased their valuation as an NFL franchise. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if that was an accurate assessment.
If the Raiders have the profit sharing and the TV deals etc.....why are you so worried the Davis family can't afford big contracts? Raiders are in such dire straights because Mark doesn't have the funds? He doesn't have 'Jerry' funds, but he has enough to field a good NFL roster. To suggest otherwise is so DUMB.
The stadium thing isn't a Mark problem, it's an obvious City of Oakland problem.
Only a patriot fan would want no Davis involved with the Raiders and only a patriots fan would continue to mock the Owner of the Raiders....the bar is very low on this site...what a shame.
Me
It's absolutely the Raiders problem. They are working on one-year lease renewals in the most antiquated, run down stadium in the NFL.
Maybe a better question is; how is that NOT a problem for the Raiders?
Wrt spending, Raiders have no choice but to spend heavily over the next two years. If they don't, they still have to pay the money, per the CBA.
So McKenzie/Davis need to find ways to spend big! It's a given, and there will be no need for you to come back and crow when it happens, because it's a foregone conclusion.
The discussion about Davis not having money is fair speculation. I wonder what will happen when inheritance tax comes due. Won't that be a problem?
Out of context again, troll boy.
Of course it's a problem for the Raiders, what the statement meant was.....now follow along.....that the one who is creating the problem is the City, not Mark. Get it?
And why are they in a position to spend big? Cause Reggie got them there and now Oakland is a little more attractive for those signings to happen....sound familiar? This FA class should be better than last years and the teams with space are in the same boat. So it's more of an equal playing field for the Raiders to sign better quality and more secure contracts.
Yes, the Raiders HAVE TO SPEND THE MONEY, So if Mark doesn't have it????? How in the fuck would the Raiders be allowed to operate???? You make no sense, just dribble with no value, as usual.
Your theory of Reggie being frugal....you are all over the map = And the beat goes on.....
Me
Guys
I was just reading a story on espn the Raiders may be holding on to guys like Schaub just because they have so much money to spend. How about holding on to Wiz.
The perfect shit storm Reggie forced to spend 50 plus in free agency.
For sure he finds a way to screw that up.
I think they should break the bank to sign Suh, Julius Thomas, Iupati, Bilaga. Better four pro bowl caliber players than 12 more woodley, smith, boothe etc etc
Regards
Sandy
ESPN...great source, no wonder you are a patriots fan.
Me
Sandy
I agree. If the Raiders keep Schaub at his current salary (or any other FA they would normally let go), that would be indicative of the "over correcting" or mishandling of the salary cap - as it's mandated by the CBA - over the past two years.
As it stands, it looks ridiculously stupid that the Raiders would even have to entertain the notion.
Some might want to blame the CBA, but McKenzie and Davis should have known this was coming. I guess McKenzie was too busy last year playing hardball with Jared Veldheer... when he should have tagged him.
Suddenly, retaining Wiz at his rate for the next two years is starting to also make sense... even if he plays guard or backup C.
In the end, the trick will be to spend it wisely, not like Monty Brewster.
NY
Signing Veldheer to a long term deal would have made a ton of sense in two ways.
1) Money was wasted on guys who did not see the field like Schaub, Woodley and Boothe or stop gap players such as Rogers and Smith.
2) They would nto have to overspend this year
My conclusion on FA given the new CBA is it is better to overpay for quality than maintian cap flexiblity by investing in medicority or in the Raiders case crap.
Hence why I say break the bank and use the cap on a few top tier players rather than going through the revolving signings that have been indicative of Reggie the best example being we are going for a third set of DBs and d-lineman in three years
What do you think? Who would you like to see them sign
Regards
Sandy
Jones,
TV revenue and profit sharing is not enough to sign free agents. If that is the extra "boost" the Raiders are needing/wanting to help spend big these next 2 seasons in free agency; especially if the problem is that Davis doesn't have the $$ to do it. The inheritance tax is going to be about 45-50% of the value of Al Davis' assets to the IRS. So if Mark is strapped for cash to spend, then it's about to be cut in half. This is very relevant; and the big reason why he cannot afford to build his own stadium (i.e. trying to foot the bill to the city/county because the NFL isn't going to throw money their way either).
The city isn't wanting to build because of the $80 mill it still owes for Mt. Al. The NFL knows that Oakland is a dying market, and by forcing the Raiders out, may force Mark Davis to sell. It's not a conspiracy, but the NFL forcing the issue.
"...the Raiders HAVE TO SPEND THE MONEY, So if Mark doesn't have it?????"
Again, this is the test of the Raiders to the NFL. If Davis cannot spend because he doesn't have the money, it will be the NFL's right to step in and force him to sell. The League doesn't have to force the Raiders to operate, the Raiders have to prove to the League they can operate. The CBA is the League's way of forcing out small time owners. The Bills were lucky because they weren't too far from this happening to them when their owner passed, and that forced them to sell the team their way. The sad thing is that the Chiefs may not be too far from the Raiders. Same with the Dolphins, Vikings, and Titans. What we as fans may be witnessing is the cleansing of the old small time AFL owner's club in today's NFL.
The AFL proved you didn't need to be "big time" to make it big. That is not today's NFL. The League's CBA is forcing the teams to be "big time" and pay "big time" money. This is the philosophy the League believes will make it more competitive. This is the philosophy that the old AFL owners fought against. History and it's context is always relevant, my friend.
Sandy,
I'm not sure that signing Veldheer would have done this for us. Yes, it would have given us stability; but I think we signed a better player in Penn. Also, we have depth on our roster that we didn't have. Reggie, for what its worth, created for us a foundation to build a team on last year. That "building" begins this year, and he has the $$ to do it. The question is, without modern facilities, is will $$ (most of which will be unguaranteed) be enough to attract the players he wants to "build" his team? We will see, at least he doesn't have an incompetent coaching staff anymore, and that may help him land top notch players.
Tv and profit sharing "etc"....I guess you missed that part? No team just relies on TV and profit sharing to have money for contracts. Yes I know the Davis Family doesn't have the funds/clout to build their own stadium.
If Davis didn't have the money to pay the players....the League would have stepped in by now. There is no chance that Mark is "low on funds and can't afford contracts". It's a dumb statement.
Mark also has to show that he can bring the Raiders back from near death before anyone will commit to a stadium. Once again, the past is still haunting this team.
The past has made it so the Raiders have to prove themselves again as being able to run the team in a fashion that will work TODAY. Until that time, no one will commit to help for a stadium. That is another reason why this is such an important time in Raider history and that the Raiders' powers that be, need to be successful.
They need to be successful to show the football world/Oakland that they are indeed BACK BABY. When that has been shown, now other CORP's/Cities are going to want to join in. Until then, Raiders are looked at as a bad business endeavor and that is because it was so badly injured by mismanagement.
It's been a long uphill battle since Mark took over and it isn't done yet.....but it's taking shape, that is for sure.
Me
Not to mention, it has been noted that Mark is paying back those who had been owed by the last regime. He is smoothing over relationships burned in the past. If Mark was so short on money, would he be paying that money back? Heard some fairly decent sums being paid back. So once again, the theories on here are BUNK.
Me
RN - Penn did a decent job for us last year, and McKenzie was incredibly lucky Penn was available after whiffing with Safford. But don't forget, Penn is several years older than Veldheer. So, that's not even a lateral move on McKenzie's part.
It's pretty obvious the Raiders are being caught flat footed with this salary guideline that was just presented by the media.
My guess is, had McKenzie and Davis been savvy to the CBA guidelines this time last year, Veldheer would almost certainly still be a Raider. Worst case, he would have been tagged to help avoid the potential for a "new" salary mess we could be headed for.
Sandy, I'd like to see the Raiders acquire top tier talent in free agency, focusing on WR and DL. There are very few positions the Raiders couldn't upgrade.
Yawn, still whining about Veld....zzzzzzz.
It's only obvious to a dolt like you that they were "caught flat footed". Do you just make up this shit as you go along?
I'm sure they are well versed in the cap situation and not clueless like you pretend. Here they are ready to spend in a good FA market and you act like it is a bad thing after being cap strapped for so many years and a roster full of way over paid halfwits....is the sun black all the time?
I am a Raider
Sandy, with the right free agent signings, perhaps McKenzie can front load contracts and make up some lost ground on spending.
We can only hope that's the case, and not stupid spending, like paying Schaub starter money to sit on the bench or throw INTs and pick-6s.
NY
Give me some FA names. Who are your top four?
Nate you usually have like 10 plus names give me a couple.
Have a good night
Sandy
Sandy,
Ray Rice, Kareem Jackson, Terrance Knighton (over Suh), Robert McClain, Iupati, Fili Moala, Torrey Smith, possibly Andre Johnson if he's cut, and Rodney Hudson (Center from KC).
Just saw Trent Cole has been cut by the Eagles too. I'd be down with signing him.
Sandy,
IMO, Raiders top priority are WR and DL. We should draft high (#4 pick) for a WR (Cooper) and sign a top FA WR (Maclin or Cobb). These guys could fill a huge void for us.
I would avoid WRs that are at or nearing the back end of their careers. If we need to spend the money, let's spend it wisely.
If JDR wants Knighton, that would be good enough to convince me he could help us. Del Rio can't make that known until FA begins.
Nate, NY
Ray Rice is as finished as MDJ. I would prefer Suh over Newton. I know Suh is not Reggie White but I think about what a transcendent signing that was for Green Bay and the Raiders could use a bona fide star.
I prefer Cobb over Macklin.
NY I would place o-line up there with the other two positions you mentioned. To me it seems the their are holes at guard, center (if Wiz goes) and possibly both tackle positions given Penn's age and Austin's up and down play.
Come to think of it the entire team has holes-lol.
Regards
Sandy
Ray Rice isn't finished, he was in full beast mode with the Ravens when he was suspended. Raiders could sign him right now for cheap $$. I think Justin Forsett would also be nice, but he may be rejoining Kubiak in Dunver.
I don't think the Raiders have to overpay for someone like Suh. I think he's looking for big money and will shut it down. I'm not on board with him, and I think he may end up being the next Albert Haynesworth. Besides, I think he stays in Detroit. Knighton is a solid player who knows JDR's system.
I'd prefer Cobb over Maclin as well, but would take Andre Johnson or Torrey Smith over both. Even if they are at the end of their careers, Johnson had 85 receptions with no one to throw to him. He still has a lot in the tank. Raiders need a solid #1 veteran WR, and draft a young guy like Kevin White; and that position would be instantly solidified.
I think WR, DL, and CB are the most important positions to fill. Raiders need a Guard and they need a MLB. Rey Maualaga, AJ Hawk (who had more tackles than Maualaga with 89, to Rey's 59). Patrick Willis would be ideal if he is released by the 9ers. If not, I'd also target Josh Mauga.
I think the Raiders need a stud pass rusher too. Jerry Hughes would be awesome. Trent Cole is also available after being cut. He'd be an awesome pick up as well.
We will see what the Raiders get, especially since players are still being cut.
Nate my man
I like your suggestions at MLB
In relation to your Suh comment check out Polian's list. The man knows his stuff. Interesting to see Moore rated so high, I was always a fan of his for some reason he seemed to be in the dog house under the new regime, too bad. He flashed some serious playmaking skills in a few games.
In regards to Ray Rice I kindly disagree with you. He averaged 3.1 a carry in 13 which is not beast mode not to mention he missed a full season which is not a positive.
Regards
Sandy
Sandy, OL indeed. Penn and Jackson should be fairly decent on the left side. Howard will be moved back to RT (because he sucked at G). That leaves two big holes. We have some prospects but center will be a key element. Booth could play C in a pinch, if he's retained.
We definitely need some upgrades!
Wiz is probably better than most options at center, despite all the fumbled C/QB exchanges last year. In hindsight, I would think Carr was more to blame, since he played all his college snaps in shotgun. That's when he's at his best, and it will be up to the coaches to recognize that, and play to Carr's strength.
Sandy,
Rice was averaging 7.6 yards per carry in the preseason last year. I know, preseason doesn't add up to much, but the Ravens were going back to a controlled offense of running the ball; and he looked like his old self.
I don't have ESPN Insider subscription so I cannot see what they say about him.
I made a list of CBs we could target too, in an earlier post, but I would like to see the Raiders sign 2 of the following:
Byron Maxwell, Kareem Jackson (I'm a huge fan of this guy), Tramon Williams, Antoine Cason, Buster Skrine (Clev), or re-signing Tarell Brown . I wouldn't mind Chris Culliver, but he gave up too many big plays last year.
Another name to watch at Safety is Da'Norris Searcy. At the DT position there is not much talk about Nick Fairley, who is ranked #2 in Rotoworld in the DT position. Imagine him and Knighton. There is also talk about Roy Helu at RB and maybe CJ Spiller. I'm not sold on either, I'd rather draft one.
Nate you cas the net to wide on the cb position in my opinion. Maxwell, Williams are the only two above avg guys in your list and then Brown is probably next, As far as cason, skrine and Jackson that would be a step back for the Raiders compared to Brown, Rogers. Flowers and Cromartie before those three for sure.
More importantly is it not sad we are talking cb after Reggie wasted a pick on Hayden man we could have had Star or Richardson that really sucks. Think about adding Suh or Knighton to one of those two. Now that is a d-line
Regards
Sandy
A Boy named Suh coming to town.....Yeah, it's just the same as when Reggie took over and had to hire Allen. Yeah, there has been no progression at all, the team is still stuck where it was and going backwards...RIGHT? LMFAO....it's growing before your eyes and you still can't see....all the hate makes you blind.
Me
Jones
How do you know Suh is coming? I know the Raiders are one of the rumored teams. Have you seen anything beyond the usual articles? I sure hope your right.
Regards
Sandy
MJD retired. Good! McFadden should follow suit.
Sandy, CSN Bay Area is reporting that Suh is coming in for a visit next week.
Thanks Raider Nate, I just saw that on ESPN. I know you are not a big advocate of signing Suh but man it would be good to get a young star on the team. I think it would really help morale as well.
I will forgive many of Reggie's sins if he signs Suh but man I just read they are considering Chris Myers for center. That would make me puke the guy is 34. To let Wiz go for that guy is even worse than the Penn for Veldheer exchange
Regards
Sandy
Sandy, I'm surprised to see you reply to anything Jones writes. His mission here nefarious at best.
As we all well know, signing expensive free agents doesn't automatically make the Raiders a better team. Ask the late great Al Davis. That said, no doubt Suh is intriguing.
As of 3:30 PFT was reporting the Dolphins are still first in line for Suh.
I agree 110% about Chris Meyers for Wiz. That's a mistake waiting to happen. Meyers was cut for a reason, and I'm sure it's not just salary. Decent centers are too few.
P.S. there's not much doubt that Suh is after a payday, which the Raiders can definitely afford in terms of cap space. But it will likely cost the Raiders more than anyone else to sign Suh... which may still not be a problem.
Here's one reason being reported:
"When it comes to a contest between the Raiders and the Dolphins, Ross has ultimate ace in the hole — the absence of state income taxes in Florida. In California, the rate for the really rich is 13.3 percent.
So if Suh signs a deal that pays him $15 million per year in California, the Golden State will withhold $1.995 million in taxes. Per year. In Florida, the Sunshine State will take the grand total of zero dollars and zero cents from Suh’s game checks."
NY
Your right on the Jones comment. I let the excitement I had for his Suh comment cloud my judgement and treated him like a human for a moment. Silly me, my apologies.
In regards to what seem like your luke warm feelings on Suh I have to respectfully disagree with you. I know its not often we don't see eye to eye on personnel matters but man you need to get on board on this one.
Here is something I pasted from an ESPN piece that states the case well.
Enjoy
Sandy
Why Suh is the best free agent since Reggie White
1. He can fit in any system. This is what I mean when I say he's a 32-team free agent. Suh can fit in any defensive scheme, and most teams would gladly shift their scheme around if it meant landing Suh and maximizing his talent. He has such tremendous natural strength and strong hands that he can either play in a two-gap contain role, occupying multiple blockers, or a one-gap penetrator role. His power really separates him from other interior defensive linemen and makes him such a dominant force to play against. He is a true difference-maker.
2. He plays with incredible passion. It has gotten him into trouble on occasion, but make no mistake: Suh's competitiveness and passion for the game are exactly what you want on your team. The entire defense's mentality changes, feeding off his intensity, and the players know they have a dominant force lined up next to them. And as mentioned before, the only games he has missed have been due to suspension; there are no durability question marks here.
3. Players this talented hardly ever hit the market -- but Detroit simply couldn't afford him. There are two key dates that brought the Lions to the point of potentially losing Suh in free agency: March 12, 2012 and March 13, 2013. Those are the two dates they restructured his contract in order to create more cap space for those current seasons, pushing his 2014 salary-cap number to the point that using the franchise tag on him would have cost an obscene $27 million. Had they not re-done his deal those two times, they would have been able to franchise him this season for about $18 million, which they almost certainly would have done.
Now, the Lions still have a chance to re-sign him, but my guess is he'll wind up with a new team this fall. But it's important to note that the reason Suh is available has nothing to do with his play on the field, durability or off-field concerns; it's purely a matter of Detroit backing itself into a corner from a financial standpoint and simply being unable to afford to keep him. That's why it's so rare for a player of Suh's talent and production to be available.
Miami might be the front runner to land Suh but let's see if JDR gets involved in the recruiting efforts to snatch Suh.
We shall see ...
It looks like they will be getting a high valued DT even if it isn't Suh. Knighton has made it clear he wants to be with JDR and he is a very decent DT.
This FA class looks to be a much better one than last year and the Raiders have to spend big, yes, we shall see.
Me
Here's the top 100 list that PFT puts out.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/17/the-free-agent-hot-100-4/
This will all hit the fan on Tuesday! Anxious to see what happens. This year's FA class is pretty impressive, and it's surprising to see how few have been re-signed or tagged.
To that point, Wiz is the second highest ranked center on the PFT board, behind KC's Hudson. Unless we're going after Hudson, it might make sense to secure Wiz.
But but....nobody wants to come to Oakland and Reggie will fuck it all up anyways, right? But your so anxious, oh nyr, is the sun still black?
You whined until the cows came home and are STILL whining even though both Houston and Veld being let go was proven out as RIGHT.
Now it's on to 'Wiz'. Do you only care about whining OR WINNING? Mediocre is mediocre and doesn't matter who's last name he has or who he was drafted by. You still don't get it and you never will....how can you call yourself a Raider? You are anything but. Back to the patriots?
Me
Hey NY
Here is an idea. How about sign Hudson at C, resign Wiz to play guard?
What are your thoughts on that.
Regards
Sandy
Sandy, IMO, it would be ideal if we could upgrade at center but it's unlikely we can. Wiz hasn't played much guard in his NFL career, so finding a talented G would probably be better than moving him over.
Bottom line is the Raiders have not had a good O-line for years, and Wiz is at the center of that (literally and figuratively).
Barnes is still the go-to guy, which pretty speaks volumes how baldy the line has performed.
NY
You are correct the only upgrade to Wiz at center is Hudson. The o-line does look to be problematic the only good you starter besides Wiz is Jackson. If the team is lucky they will squeeze another year or two at most out of Penn and then they will be shopping for a new LT.
Have a good weekend
Sandy
Getting rid of Barksdale was one of Reggie's first moves.
from PFT:
"The 26-year-old Barksdale has started 29 of the last 30 games for St. Louis, including all 16 this season. A 2011 third-round pick of the Raiders, Barksdale (6-5, 326) joined St. Louis in September 2012 after Oakland [McKenzie] waived him early in his second season.
Since then, he’s developed into an NFL starter, and he looks ready to entertain other league suitors."
Maybe the Raiders want to sign Barksdale back. They still need a decent RT.
Ironically, if McKenzie had kept Barksdale and not drafted Watson, he'd be ahead of the curve... with another 2nd rd draft pick on the roster.
Moves like waiving Barksdale, letting Veldheer go and moving Howard to G are largely why the Raiders have been unable to field a decent line.
P.S. hopefully, we aren't headed for another downgrade on the o-line by losing our center, without having viable replacement.
ESPN reporting that Suh has a deal done with the Dolphins.
Raiders had a meeting set up with Suh sometime next week. Nicely done Reggie.
But Jones said Suh was coming. You mean to tell me that the oracle known as Jones was wrong? I'm shocked, shocked!
Claude Rains
Only speculation at this point. Otherwise, it's tampering. As reported by PFT, Miami (FL) holds a +/- $2.0M advantage over CA due to no state income tax. Raiders would have to offer that much more than the Dolphins annually, assuming all else is equal... which it's not. Advantage, Miami.
Kigthton would be a nice FA consolation price.
With Cobb gone, Raiders should penny up for Maclin.
Regardless, we have to hope by close of business Tuesday the Raiders look like a better team (on paper).
PFT reporting:
"Raiders making strong push for Rodney Hudson"
That makes sense, as Hudson appears to be the only viable upgrade to Wiz. He's younger and better than Wiz.
That would be a tremendous coup for the Raiders. But the risk is high if they miss!
Disregard my comment about tampering. Inside a 3-day "legal" tampering window. It appears that some level of negotiating is permitting. But there's nothing keeping other teams from reaching out with their intentions, including the Lions who still want to sign Suh.
And there’s still time for the Raiders to make Suh an offer he can't refuse... though Reggie doesn't seem like much of an equestrian.
NY
If Freckle fool Reggie does not sign the two guys you mentioned think about how he will have to overpay other guys just to comply with the CBA.
Reggie needs to save his job now in this FA period.
A simple summary of Reggie's time with Raiders.
1. Muffed thecoaching hire
2. Fixed Salary Capt
3. 2012 13 FA (Bartell, Briesel, Spencer, Flynn, Wheeler okay but left, Roach solid for a year or so but not retaining any of Bryant, Barksdale hurt)
4. Terrible 2013 draft class (blew a 1st and 2nd) this set the Raiders back more than anything, some combo of Star, Richardson and Alonso we would all sound like Jones lol
5. Horrendous 2014 fa class (Veldheer gone, Woodley, Austin, MJD etc.)
6. 2014 solid draft so far ( I give credit where due)
Like I said Reggie needs to step up in Fa now or he is gone. If he can sign some legit players and have another good draft class maybe just maybe 7 wins
Regards
Sandy
If the media reports are accurate, the Raiders may not land any of the top free agents.
Here are just some of the frontrunners so far (based on offer sheets that can’t be fully negotiated or signed until Tues.):
Suh - Miama
Maclin - Cheifs
Knighton - Redskins
Julius Thomas - Jags
Tory Smith - 49ers
Based on the list above, and that Wiz is as good as "Veldheered" off the Raiders, McKenzie better not whiff on signing Hudson to replace Wiz.
Suffice to say, the Raiders have the ability to make an offer(s) that can't (shouldn't) be matched by any team, while front-loading a contract(s) and not blinking in terms of salary cap issues.
That's our Reggie. Always a bridesmaid, never a bride.
And Mark Davis is the same pea in the pod.
The Raiders will have to overpay for whatever they get due to their terrible losing ways. That being said given how much they have to spend due to the CBA its sort of academic at this point. Let's jut hope the signings include some solid if not spectacular guys who last more than a year.
Regards
Sandy
Raiders are in line to sign Rodney Hudson, who is the same age as Wiz, but a better Center. Upgrade.
Torrey Smith looks to be headed to San Fran, but there are reports that something big is about to shake up. They may be losing someone else, not named Gore. Speculation of course, immediately goes to Kapernick, but it may be Patrick Willis, Anquan Boldin, Vernon Davis, or someone else. There have been rumblings that Patrick Willis would get the axe. That is what I think it will be.
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