Draft Day Thread
I'm getting this started early, as my availability on Thursday will be limited...
My theme for this draft is: expect the unexpected.
You can draft the best player available, or you can target a specific need. But needs are aplenty on this roster, so its likely that we can kill two birds with one stone.
We need playmakers in the skill positions, and WR Amari Cooper is said to be a temptation, though Leonard Williams looms large at DT.
A lot of people think that Williams will be there, and that the Raiders will sprint to the podium to pick him. But that presumes that the Raiders will sit tight at #4, without trading their slot for other picks. And it also presumes that if that's the case, we know what the Raiders are thinking.
But we don't know if they'll sit tight, and we don't know what we're thinking, which makes me want to expect the unexpected.
What's your take?
My theme for this draft is: expect the unexpected.
You can draft the best player available, or you can target a specific need. But needs are aplenty on this roster, so its likely that we can kill two birds with one stone.
We need playmakers in the skill positions, and WR Amari Cooper is said to be a temptation, though Leonard Williams looms large at DT.
A lot of people think that Williams will be there, and that the Raiders will sprint to the podium to pick him. But that presumes that the Raiders will sit tight at #4, without trading their slot for other picks. And it also presumes that if that's the case, we know what the Raiders are thinking.
But we don't know if they'll sit tight, and we don't know what we're thinking, which makes me want to expect the unexpected.
What's your take?
posted by Raider Take at 9:20 PM
139 Comments:
I'm good with Williams, Cooper or White at #4 (maybe even in that order) but I'm not sure about any of the edge rushers at #4.
And while I think trading down is a good move for the Raiders, I'm reminded of Hayden/Watson picks that have yielded below average results.
Honestly, if Williams is available when the Raiders pick, how can they not select him?
And if things work out the way they should – and up to expectations set during every offseason for the last 10+ years – this should be the last time the Raiders pick in the Top 5, or even the Top 10 for a long time.
So Thursday's #4 pick is crucial!
I think the Raiders only trade with the Browns for their 2 first rounders. If they trade with any other team it should be the Vikings for their 11th overall and Adrian Peterson. Otherwise stay at #4.
If Williams is there, select him. If not, Cooper or White (I'd prefer White). Bottom line, we have some major holes to fill (unless you think Richardson and Crabtree were good signings). I think they may surprise us though. There is a lot of mystical smoke screening coming out of Oakland. They may go after a CB, Dante Fowler (even if Williams is there), Todd Gurley (because he's coming off an injury), or Maxx Williams at TE because we could've gotten him in the second round. You never know what "Reggie" we are going to get. Let's hope it is the "Reggie" of last draft, and not 2 years ago picking up a Hayden.
Why White over Cooper? You can't go wrong with a guy who caught 124 balls in a season in the SEC in a pro style offense vs a one year wonder at WVU
White has better route running skills, and Alabama players have struggled in the NFL as of late. What Saban has going in college doesn't seem to be working in the NFL. We will see that in Trent Richardson,
On a different note, here are a list of "Draft Steals" at each position on offense that I think will have an impact in the League.
QB-with all the hype about Winston and Mariota (both who won't have a great career); I think Bryce Petty is a quiet gold mine. Shane Carden (East Carolina), is another QB that is going to shine. Garrett Grayson (Colorado St) also has some big potential.
RB-Jay Ajayi has good potential, but I think it is dependent on where he lands (New England is my guess). Ameer Abdullah (Nebraska) is also another good potential back, but I a particular style of offense is what is going to make him shine as well (Saints, Eagles, Chargers). David Cobb (Minnesota), I think he fits the Tyrone Wheatley, Marshawn Lynch type RB.
WR-Ty Montgomery (Stanford), Chris Conley (Georgia), Josh Harper (Fresno St), Jaxon Shipley (Texas), will be an incredible slot WR, and DeAndre Smelter (Georgia St).
OG-Josue Matias (FL St), Jarvis Harrison (TX A&M), and Robert Myers (Tennessee St).
OT-Cedric Ogbuehi (TX A&M), Daryl Williams (Oklahoma), Ali Marpet (Hobart) could also be a potential Center, and Rob Havenstein (Wisconsin)
C-Already mentioned Ali Marpet as a potential Center, BJ Finney (Kansas St), Reese Dismukes (Auburn), and Brandon Vitabile (Northwestern).
TE/FB-Not much here. Jeff Heuerman (TE OH St), Tyler Varga (FB, Yale), Clive Walford (TE, Miami), and Blake Bell (TE, Oklahoma).
Draft steals on the Defensive side of the ball that could make an impact and potentially start:
DE-Preston Smith (Miss St), Deon Barnes (Penn St), Henry Anderson (Stanford), Za'Darius Smith (Kentucky), and Tavaris Barnes (Clemson).
DT/NT-I know he may go in the first round, but Malcom Brown (Texas), Jordan Phillips (Oklahoma), Mario Edwards Jr (FL St), Carl Davis (Iowa), Ellis McCarthy (UCLA), and Terry Williams (East Carolina).
OLB-Eric Kendricks (UCLA), Shaq Thompson (Washington), Mike Hull (Penn St), Zach Hodges (Harvard), and James Vaughters (Stanford).
ILB-Stephone Anthony (Clemson), Taiwan Jones (Mich St), and Deterrian Shackelford (Ole Miss).
CB-Alex Carter (Stanford), Byron Jones (UConn), Steven Nelson (Oregon St), D'Joun Smith (FL Atlantic), and Doran Grant (Ohio St).
S-Anthony Harris (Virginia), Jaquiski Tartt (Samford), Kurtis Drummond (Mich St), and Josh Shaw (USC).
Special Teams runs laps.
I thought Cooper was the WR the scouts were suggesting is the better route runner.
No sure things.
Crabtree was once the guy with over 100 rec's in college and look where he ended up; in a one-year contract with the Raiders.
That's the kiss of death in the NFL.
Everything I've read paints Cooper as the more polished route runner and White as the more explosive, big play WR.
Williams Cooper and White....
ALL AVAILABLE for the Raiders pick.
This is ALL Reggie McKenzie. Did he do his homework??
Amari Cooper! Ok. Got to respect that.
This is the first legitimate decision at WR since Brown and Rice retired.
Think about that for a second.
SCAR
Good pick.
Get the franchise qb a weapon. Cooper is that weapon.
Raiiiderrrrsss!!
SCAR
Great Pic
Look, I'm sure Cooper is a solid pick.
But how do you leave all those top defensive players on the board ?
Quick. name me a WR on Seattle or the Pats ?
What was the name of the WR that caught the SB winning pass ?
Get the point. None of them were top five picks.
OO - I thought Leonard Williams was a no-brainer but I can't be disappointed the Raiders got Cooper. This is the Raiders first commitment to a top WR in over a decade.
Still 6 rounds.
Look what Green did for Cinci. Cooper is that good. I watch more SEC than NFL trust me guys. He dominated SEC CBs with crap at QB.
Not to mention the only way we are going to know if Carr is the franchise QB we are hoping is to give him some legitimate weapons.
Whatever talent gap exist is between Williams and Cooper (I for one think its minimal at best) the need at WR puts it over the edge. Williams is no Watt or Suh. Not sure if he will be an impact player on 3rd down. The combo of Cooper and Gregory let's say far exceeds Williams and whatever WR are available in round 2
Sandy
When Williams fell to #4, I thought for sure the Raiders would select him and still get a high impact WR next round. We need another D-Lineman to create pressure.
At the same time, I understand why they chose Cooper. Williams can play anywhere on the D-Line, but we already have a few who can do that. I think they can still draft another solid D-lineman in Preston Smith.
The next pick should be Josue Matias, but we will see.
Nate - I thought the same about taking Williams and getting a WR in rd 2. But maybe the reverse is also true. We shall see.
WR was the Raiders' biggest need. Suffice to say, there is arguably a wide gap between the WR talent the Raiders have had these last 10+ years and a top prospect like Cooper, assuming he's as advertised.
That should be welcome news.
On a side note, his OC in college was Lane Kiffin, who Cooper gave much props to at the Combine.
What I've read about Cooper is that he plays all the WR positions, as well as lines up in the backfield, unlike many other college WRs (like White) who are more one-dimensional coming into the NFL.
Unfortunately, we can't have both Cooper and Williams. That would definitely kick start the JDR regime.
Pass rusher Randy Gregory in 2nd Round? He's first round talent and vows to be good...
What happened? Did the Raiders jump the shark in the second round, again?
at least we got one good player lol
Hey, a TE in the 3rd round.
Way to build a championship team Reggie...lol
Stockpiling picks... so take a flyer on La’El Collins’s in the 6th or 7th. There must be some way to pay him a fair salary and make it contingent on him not being a murderer.
Otherwise, not much chatter about picks after Cooper.
Agree. Draft going ok until Reggie grabbed Feliciano. Lowest rated player taken in the draft so far and projected as an undrafted free agent. Snagged him in the 4th, that is a head scratcher.
Everything else looking ok....
Take a swing on La'El. Why not?
Raiders draft LB Ben Heeney with 2nd pick in the 4th rd.
"...has shown a nose for the ball, leading the NCAA in solo tackles with an average of 7.3 per outing but also missing 16 tackles, which according to Pro Football Focus was the most of any draft eligible player."
Probably another player that would have been around later in the draft.
And LB isn't a position of need. Is Reggie actually drafting in the 4th round for Special Teams?
Seems like the 4th round is a good place to pick up another G or a RB.
Yeah, I would have to say today in the draft thus far has been very strange.
Time will tell. I guess the question is if these guys were the highest on their boards at the time of the pick....that is interesting.
Bryan
With 3 picks in the 7th Round, I would select:
Josue Matias (OG, FL St)
Josh Haper (WR, Fresno St)
Anthony Chickillo (DE, Miami)
It has been an okay draft, not an outstanding one. Cooper did not seem thrilled to be in Oakland, or picked by Oakland. Also, not sure why they haven't picked up a DE yet. Raiders have a roster full of DT's, and no DE's.
It's a pretty sad state of affairs for Raiders.
Raiders can't even think about drafting guys like Gregory, or Collins.
Or sign a free agent like Hardy, or Rice.
Apparently, any players with questionable character, are off limits because it would upset Fred Biletnikoff.
I feel bad for what happened to Freddie B. but to make him the defacto owner/Gm, is a little strange.
Are Raiders tryng to build best team possible, or are they playing Spencer Tracey in "Boys Town" ?
Raiders sign undrafted free agent Josh Harper (WR, Fresno St), DC's favorite target in college.
This one blows me away. 5th Rd pick, LB Neiron Ball. Ball was out of football in 2011 due to brain surgery. He also missed 2014 spring practice with a sprained left MCL and was medically excluded from the combine following meniscus microfracture surgery. He played in nine games for Florida before being lost to the season with a knee injury. Ball also had sports hernia surgery following the season.
What? Really?
Hugely disappointing that the Raiders won’t draft RBs. Instead we sign vet busts like McFadden and Richardson.
If not a RB, we should be stockpiling DEs
Do any of these guys play basketball, because somehow that qualifies you to play football for the Raiders; or at least that was the theme a couple years ago.
Watching the off season work, we've already improved to seven wins this season. That means that so far we've improved from 3-13 to 7-9, but it's possible we may do even better.
Here are six takes.
1. Dennis Allen admitted after his first season that he never reviewed film of the team he was hired to coach. According to Mark Davis, Jack Del Rio knew the entire Raider roster, both offense and defense, BEFORE ever interviewing for the job.
2. The very first thing demanded by JDR was a change of personnel in the training room, and a complete remodel of the training room to modern equipment designed for pre-venting NFL injuries. I have been noting since Norv Turner’s second year that the number of injuries to starters on this team has been off the charts, and on a team with very little depth it means death to any season.
3. When JDR was the HC of Jacksonville his defenses were always good and smart. What JDR never had in Jacksonville was a franchise QB. Derek Carr seems to fit that bill.
4. The single draft pick of Amari Cooper makes the Raiders a better team. While virtually every other pick is a question mark, it is not the job of the Raiders to pick the players Mike Maycock would have picked. It is the Raiders job to trust the scouts and coaches they’ve hired to spot things that people like Mike Maycock won’t spot. McKenzie did very well last year, and this year he has a quality coaching staff to help him. My hope is that Mike Tice and Jethro Franklin improve McKenzie’s ability to pick offensive and defensive linemen (what I identify as his major weak spot).
5. There now appear to be some team strengths emerging. I think the WR corps is looking good, as well as the LB corps. I think special teams will also be very sharp this season.
6. On the down side is their running back corps. I am curious to see what Gus Johnson has to bring (undrafted free agent from Stephen Austin). I think we have an OL primarily geared for protecting the QB and our running game will be weak. I also believe we will have trouble stopping air attacks, but we will be much better against the run.
No CBs picked? No RBs picked? Look, I'm all for Tav Murray, but not Trent. Trent is running excuses the same D-McFad is. The excuse, "Nobody has seen my best yet." Of course we haven't, because they both are not coachable.
I agree with BR, they are going to have trouble stopping air attacks, in a division where the air attack reigns (Manning, Rivers, and Alex Smith). I disagree that they are going to be a 7 win team.
JUST PROVE IT, BABY!
They did very little to improve a very weak pass rush. JDR says he can coach up the players on the roster but he's being polite. The Raiders still lack talent and depth at so many positions.
WR has been addressed with the additions of Cooper and Crabtree, though it will need another upgrade by next year.
RB is a mystery. Good young RBs are a dime a dozen but the Raiders have done to pursue young talent.
It will take some time before we really know how the Raiders did in the draft, but it's easy to say they didn't hit the home runs they hit last year.
Raiders release James Jones, who was their best WR last year. Another one-and-done signing by Reggie McKenzie.
Perhaps Jones isn't a #1 WR but he was there catching balls. Streeter is coming off injury, and the young guys are inexperienced and possibly unreliable.
So while the Raiders got better at WR by drafting Cooper, this is a bit of a head scratcher.
Free agency should be a critical part of the rebuilding process. Yet McKenzie's version of free agency is almost entirely stopgap signings.
If it's possible to build a team almost entirely through the draft, McKenzie needs to be spot on with draft picks. So far, I don't see that at all. Last year's draft appears to be the exception, not the rule.
NYR...This is the pitfall of building solely through the draft.
Raiders add Cooper to a thin WR corp.
Raiders have L. Murray at RB, but no one else.
If either one of these guys goes down, it's over.
Reggie signed Don Penn, and said plan was to groom a young LT behind him. Who ? Where ?
Reggie signed Tuck. Was to groom a young DE behind him. I guess that's Edwards Jr.
The secondary ? Ignored. Look for more 4 TD losses to Donkos.
Building only through the draft. It's a sloooooooooooooooooooooow process...
...and painful for the fans.
James Jones told CSNBayArea he is being released. PFT article says this:
"That one year was the first year of a three-year deal and Jones caught 73 passes for 666 yards and six touchdowns during his season in Oakland. That paltry average yards per catch speaks to Jones’s difficulty creating separation from opposing defenses last season ..."
This is still my concern as we head into the next season. Who do we have that is going to create separation from opposing defenses? Michael Crabtree did that in College, but hasn't been able to do it in the pro's. It is one of the most difficult aspects of being a WR in the league. Cooper has to come in and do it. Again, this is a reason to sign Reggie Wayne. It gives opportunity for our young WR's to learn how to do it.
LMAO.....cry baby central, right here on this site. Why did he do that whaaaaa, why did he pick him, whaaaa...
Like you dumbshits know any better? Where is your draft room? Where is your board? Where are your scouts?
Jones was going to be the 4th WR at 3.5 mill, he can't get open passed 5 yrds. Who's going to teach the young guys? Coaches? Ever heard of them?
Anyone declaring a draft that just finished as not good enough.....they haven't even played a down. Weren't you the same dopes who drooled over J.Russell?, M Huff?, DHB?, McClain? I remember how you guys said how Al hit it out of the park in those drafts. So WTF do you know? Obviously nothing so eat your humble pie and STFU.
Once again, because Al Davis ruined the Org, it's going to take time to rebuild it PROPERLY. Once again, no top FA's will sign in Oakland until it's back on the map. We saw last FA period that MONEY IS NOT THE ONLY FACTOR.
The team has to be built through the draft to build LONG TERM success. I know you dumbshits could never understand this because you have no clue how to build a franchise, so STFU.
You bitch if Jones was kept and you bitch when he was let go....you are going to make a hell of a wife.
Me
SCAR
the X factor this year...How good is the coaching staff?
Speculating completely here, but it looks like RM drafted for positional need. Isn't RM a best player available kind of guy? If so, drafting based on needs of the position would seem to speak on JDR's influence in the process, or RM's confidence in his head coach, or both. Right?
As for my skin in the game, I really like this coaching staff. The proof will be in the pudding for a minimum of 16 games with wins at stake...
SCAR
In fairness to James Jones, Carr was a rookie last year and arguably contributed to Jones' low avg yards stat.
McKenzie scouted Jones from GB and signed him to a 3-year deal. He actually posted respectable numbers for a Raiders WR. There's probably no way to fairly judge him playing with a rookie QB.
And there's no guarantee Cooper comes in and immediately takes over as Raiders #1.
Lots of factors that point to releasing Jones as being a potential mistake.
Jones, you have yet to espouse your opinion about the draft nor any college players that participated in the draft but you have time in your busy day to come here and bash folks who have been with this process all along; and all the while you’re still blaming AL for all the Raiders woes.
That’s funny, in a pathetic kind of way!
it doesn't matter what you or I think of the draft. Your OPINION is mud, it means NOTHING.
Time will tell if the draft was decent, so commenting now is just blowing your horn with just speculation as your 'facts'.
I know you love the mental masturbation part of football, I'm more into what's really going on.
I don't get into the GUESSING of who will be picked or GUESSING how the players will turn out and bitching about it like you an authority on the subject when they haven't even played a DOWN = NOW THAT IS PATHETIC.
Yeah, Al Davis is the reason the Raiders are in the state they are in, I think that is pretty well established with those living in reality.
Carry on, big mouth.
Me
Jones is washed up, how can that be a mistake? At 3.5 Mill/yr, they have a ton of young WR's and Jones probably doesn't want to be just a tutor at this point.
No cap hit because of Reggie's contract, you see how that works?
Cooper will come in just like Mack and Carr did last year and will contribute.
They also have that WR from the Patriots they signed late last year too, Streater, Crabs, Holmes Butler....no room for an past his prime at #.5 mill/yr....no mistake.
Me
ah yes, mistake = 3.5 not #.5
Reggie McKenzie has less than 25% retention ratio for free agents he's signed since taking over.
What do you make of that?
Of course, it's how he is redoing the roster. He's had to redo it 3 times because of the cap problem that was.
Because of the cap problem he's had to sign a lot of one or two and done deals. Now he is in a position, down the road, to re-sign the draft picks he is accumulating now because he didn't blow big money on FA's today.
Soon, FA's will be not taking up so many roster spots. You don't build a team through FA's, it is through the draft, period. FA's can add, but will not be the core.
Pretty simple stuff and has been covered multiple times on here...but you want to try and rehash it all again = why?
Me
"it is through the draft, period"
Just reported last night that Miles Buris is getting cut. We are three years removed from McKenzie's 2012 draft and only Tony Bergstrom (a backup who's next out the door) remains on the Raiders roster.
So how is that building through the draft?
What you fail to recognize is that McKenzie is winging it. He carries an overall philosophy to build through the draft but it's mostly fiction. Because isn't part of "building through the draft" retaining the players you draft?
JDR apparently hired two assistant coaches from the college ranks, and those coaches identified several players that the Raiders drafted this year. That's great but does that now take the onus off McKenzie and his scouting team if these players don't pan out?
McKenzie is over his head. We should be thankful the Raiders now at least have an experienced HC in JDR who, in hindsight, should have been hired instead of Dennis Allen.
Jones you ass wipe. This is year 4 without Al, I think its time to start holding Reggie accountable, you foolish little man
Where and when were Burris and Bergstrom picked? Oh yeah, the very 1st draft when Reggie started in the 4th round with no scouts? Don't be a fucking idiot, if you can help it, which I highly doubt.
Like in the presser where JDR was hired....they both said it wasn't the time, so Allen was hired because BOTH knew that Allen would be the sacrificial lamb until it was ready for Jack... If this is the best evidence you have of Reggie "winging it"....you aren't very good at what you do.
Me
Yes this is year 4, how many years did it take Al to make the franchise the worst in the NFL? So it's going to take some time to reverse it and if you could SEE, you would see the team is well on it's way to being a real NFL team again. Thanks Reggie and Mark.
Me
Oh, so McKenzie's job didn't start until his second year? Actually, that explains a lot.
McKenzie was personnel director for GB. What makes you believe he shouldn't be held accountable for a draft in which he only needed to select the best available player... and not ever consider position? Usually, those two things require balance. But for McKenzie's plan to dump the roster, position was a non-factor.
Bergstrom was a top 100 pick in the 3rd round of the 2012 draft.
So if we remove rounds 3-7, and only building from rounds 1-2, we should have a roster filled out in about 30 years, assuming we retain all draft picks and the early draftees extend their careers into their 40s and 50s. Right, Jones?
Wow, try and make some sense....a post of babble means NOTHING. Try and do better, otherwise trying to 'discuss' with you is a joke.
Me
"Like in the presser where JDR was hired....they both said it wasn't the time, so Allen was hired because BOTH knew that Allen would be the sacrificial lamb until it was ready for Jack"
That's a reach equal to your tanking theory. McKenzie scouted Dennis Allen just like he scouted Matt Flynn and other failures. He strapped the team with Allen, allowed him to bring in Greg Knapp, already a previous Raider failure, and cost the Raiders an extra 1-2 years minimum in its development.
You are too dump to see they were covering their tracks.
McKenzie wasn't even enough aware of the situation last off-season when he could have replaced Allen and prevented further damage.
So how could hiring JDR, an experienced HC to give the program a jump start three years earlier, have been worse than what happened?
Only an idiot would suggest in hindsight that Allen was the better option.
JDR and Reggie both said it, you calling them liars? You aren't a Raider, so why don't you fuck off?
We have been through all of this and you want to rehash it again? Talk about a fucking troll, get a life, you freak.
Me
They said it to appease you, Jones. JDR was available to coach the Raiders 3 years ago. Hiring Dennis Allen over JDR was a mistake. History tells us as much.
Don't make something out of it that it's not. It makes you look dumber than you are.
JDR wasn't going to walk into that dumpster fire, ya twerp.
You must be the only idiot alive who still thinks a prominent HC was going to take that job.
Only an idiot can't understand how fucked up the team was when Al passed.
Only a fucking moron STILL doesn't know that it had to be rebuilt and the 1st couple years had only 70 mill to spend on a roster.
But what can anyone expect from such a piece of garbage like yourself?
They flat out said it in their presser and you are telling me not to make it out to be something it isn't? You are one fucked up twerp, you know that?
Me
Where do we get some of that Kool-Aid? Minty-fresh Kool-Aid? Kill the brain cells Kool-Aid? Bust me one of those "Everything is going according to plan" IV's.
I swear I've read this conversation before....
Reggie's plan for the 50 year rebuild continues as the Chiefs cut Terrelle Pryor.
I think Reggie and the Joker have a lot in common. They're not schemers, they're dogs chasing after a car and wouldn't know what they'd do if they caught it!
Bust me one of those too, Nate. Someone is chasing his tail, again.
Raiders release another draft pick, tight end Nick Kasa. Whatever the circumstance, it's pretty much a given you can't build through the draft alone. At some point, Raiders will need to do better in free agency.
On a sad note, Marv Hubbard died at 68.
Raiders drafted 2 players each from Florida and Miami, two schools from which JDR hired assistant coaches.
So it's obvious McKenzie and his scouts relied heavily on JDR and his coaches in this years' draft. Makes you wonder how much drafted players were actually scouted by McKenzie's staff.
Now we see JDR picking off previous McKenzie draft picks at the positions filled in the draft. The turnover of players since McKenzie arrived has been staggering, and most have been players he drafted or signed.
So player retention is very low. Of course, that can happen whenever you turnover HC.
But the notion that Dennis Allen was a necessary evil is absolute BS. The same people (person) now telling us Allen was a stopgap to JDR was, at the time of Allen's hiring, telling us McKenzie fired Jackson because he wanted to hire his own HC and Dennis Allen was his man.
So stop with the fence jumping stupidity. Allen was McKenzie's guy all along! Much more so than JDR! JDR is an afterthought, and only comes to the Raiders as part of the fallout from McKenzie's mistakes. Mark Davis made that call.
So if the Raiders can pull off a successful turnaround and win after four years and numerous failures in the process, it will be in spite of Reggie McKenzie as much or more than because of him.
Go Raiders!
Mark Davis made that call...LMFAO. And you know this how?
Didn't you write this?..."
Don't make something out of it that it's not."...and you are the worst offender. Typical of an asshole, always pointing the finger and calling the other guy exactly what YOU are. The KING of projectors = YOU.
You don't know shit and your 'theory' is way off, as usual. It's pretty obvious how and why it went down like it did, but only morons can't see it = you = good job, asshole.
Me
You absolutely said McKenzie wanted his own HC and that's why he fired Jackson and hired Dennis Allen. Now that Allen turned out to be a total failure, you're saying he was merely a stopgap to JDR... who we know was available to McKenzie when he hired Allen.
You are the ultimate fence jumper.
As I said, when the Raiders finally turn this thing around, it will be in spite of McKenzie.
Have a nice day!
It doesn't matter what you think......it doesn't matter at all. Your opinion has nothing to do with the TRUTH.
As time moves along, it will play out and we will see if McKenzie was on the right path or not. You are declaring he is a bust. I am declaring that he is doing a good job and moving the team back to NFL standards. Time will tell.
I am a Raider
YOU DON'T KNOW NY! WHERE'S YOUR SOURCES? YOU SMELL FUNNY, LIKE AQUA VELVA! REGGIE IS THE BEST THING SINCE SLICED CHEESE. I DON'T NEED SOURCES BECAUSE I AM THE ULTIMATE SOURCE!
My real take now:
I do think that Reggie has accomplished a tremendous task in managing the salary cap and front office, organizational function. He needs to improve on the scouting side of his job. I know he relies on others as well, that he doesn't do all the scouting; but in the end, he is making the decisions. I wonder if the weak link in this arena is his brother (who he won't fire, I mean because he's his brother). The dude fell asleep at the Scouting Combine, and he still has a job. I think outside of Cooper, his draft has not left me optimistic like it did last year, and even Cooper (to me) was a questionable pick considering Williams was there.
The reason why I say that is because the Raiders did not need another DT, and yet they picked DT, Mario Edwards Jr, over the better player in Leonard Williams, and a better DE in Preston Smith. True that Edwards Jr lost some lbs to play DE, but they should've picked Williams there. I was hoping they would have picked Leonard when it was live, and then gone for a WR like Jaleen Strong in the 2nd Round.
Then to pick Feliciano (a projected 6th/7th rounder at best) in the 4th was the dumbest move; especially when Josue Matias (who went undrafted) was available, not too mention Tre Jackson, and Jarvis Harrison (all 3 better prospects) were available. Feliciano had a 4.8 grade entering the draft, there are/were 16 undrafted OG with a better draft grade. I didn't like this pick.
I'm also not sure why they didn't pick Anthony Chickillo (DE) in the 5th/6th round instead of 2 OLBs back to back; especially since we need more help on the D-Line. I guess it is because they knew they were cutting LBs Justin Jackson, Miles Burris, and Bojay Filimoeatu.
The first 4 rounds are where you want to get the top players, and with what was on the board with these picks, I was baffled. The only reason why I think Matias didn't get picked is because of an undisclosed injury. The other picks are value picks at that point. I'm ok with Cooper and Walford, but am scratching my head at Edwards Jr and Feliciano.
What's the matter Nate, you feeling ignored so you have to act like a spoiled kid trying to get attention?
Once again, it doesn't matter what you think, they haven't played a down.
You haven't one piece of insider info and you are saying that Reggie doesn't have a clue? Self important much?
To think 'you' and 'nyr' have better knowledge of who to pick and where to pick is totally laughable and shows that you have no idea what you write about....= clown central. Good job, asshole.
Me
Lots of questions in that draft. I think Edwards has 9 career sacks. And taking a TE in Rd 3 was reach, IMO. Raiders seems to gravitate to drafting injured players coming off surgery. What's up with that?
As I said, I believe the Raiders relied heavily on the new coaches, particularly former college coaches, to pick this year's draft. If true, it also means that McKenzie and his staff had less involvement. It will be interesting to see how that plays out.
Jones - It's not my opinion, it's a fact that you endorsed Allen as McKenzie's choice for HC. That's why he fired Jackson. McKenzie wanted "his guy." Remember?
It's also a fact that you did a 180 on that when Allen was fired and you stated that Allen was merely a stopgap to JDR all along.
Remember? Or is it still fuzzy for you?
As you always remind us, your record here is perfect. Or are you "tanking" your takes now?
The Jets have provided the perfect barometer for measuring the Raiders first two draft picks.
Raiders picked 4th and took a WR then a DE, in that order.
Jets picked 6th and took a DE, then a WR, in that order.
So, the Raiders passed on both these picks that the Jets made... 1st and 2nd round players high in the draft should make immediate impact. This comparison will be interesting to follow.
I also Allen was the only guy/type that would take the job, which you cried about like a baby.
Saying "no, any coach would want this job"...remember? If you want to go down memory lane....how bout the bet you did with 'agent orange'? You looked like a real clown on that one.
Or how bout you saying that the players only care about money when signing a FA contract?
How bout you saying that Reggie blew it the 1st time when he didn't hire JDR? Then you tell me they are lying at the presser. Who's full of shit? I could go on for days if I went back and looked at all your pathetic posts. You ain't worth it, you piece of filth.
I backed Allen because he took the job. When it was clear he was a stop gap, then it was also clear that he was hired for that purpose because no one else would take it.
History proves this out and yet you still want to push the old propaganda of Reggie not knowing any better = fuck you.
Me
The scouting dept., JDR, and the coaches provide McKenzie input/insight/opinions, etc. on potential draftees ... what would you expect?
The notion of who should take credit or blame on a drafted player is rather silly. The 'credit' or 'blame' falls on McKenzie as GM since he is the decision maker.
Ultimately, it falls the GM on how he uses the insight provided by coaches (such as the Florida players), or scouts.
Looks like NYR is setting up a "strawman" argument and covering his bets. In other words, if the "Florida" players do well, it was the coaches who should take a bow -- if they do poorly, blame McKenzie.
"I also Allen was the only guy/type that would take the job...."
Yes, Jones, you said that after you jumped the fence, when it became clear Allen would fail.
Another job well done.
No, CJ. You're making another drive-by assumption. What I'm saying is much clearer.
I think McKenzie has grossly underperformed his job. Even in his fourth year, Raiders have a high turnover rate.
Jones stated "you build through the draft, period!" He's repeated this many times, though you criticized me in a previous drive-by assumption for "taking it out of context." It's in black and white above.
From my LR perspective, building through the draft alone appears to be an impossible dream for McKenzie.
McKenzie dumped most of the Raiders young talent sight unseen. He has released all but one backup (Bergstrom) from his first draft class. He's missed badly on several early round picks, and JDR is now cutting more McKenzie draftees.
Meanwhile, if we could include free agency in the discussion, as would be logical to have some balance, McKenzie's turnover rate in free agency is over 75%. That has to be unprecedented for a rebuilding team.
It's my further opinion, and I will stand by this, that if the Raiders make some noise this year or next, it will be on JDR and in spite of the many failures by RM.
P.S. The point was made in the media that several of the Raiders draft picks were from colleges that JDR hired assistant coaches, including Edwards in the 2nd rd. That's more than coincidental.
It begs the question, are McKenzie and his scouts doing their job. We know Raleigh was napping at the Combine.
What a fucking troll.
Ask any GM and they will tell you that you build a team through the draft. You are the only moron in the world that doesn't know this.
Reggie's 1st draft started at the top of the 4th RD and he wasn't using his scouts and you act like the draft was a disaster. Did you expect pro bowlers?
Of course those players would be cut when newer and better players come in to replace them. Cutting 5-7 rders who were picked just to make up a roster at the time.
Why don't you just admit you have no fucking clue? But here you are blasting a GM of an NFL team because YOU KNOW BETTER? What a fucking joke.
You are too absurd to 'discuss' with. Full of lies and a bunch of crap that has no basis in truth. You are a liar, just like that guy, agent orange, you know him, right?
Me
That's funny you calling me a troll, Jones, because I'm hear discussing the team, the draft, etc., and you just come here to bash everyone for their opinions. You are a cancer on this site with your ignorance and belligerence.
Be that as it may, what little facts you think you know aren't even right. Bergstrom was a 3rd round pick, smart guy.
The list of draft picks and free agents that have been dumped since Reggie arrived is staggering.
Coming to the Raiders must feel like the kiss of death for so many players.
BTW, what do you know about being an NFL GM? Have some experience, do you?
NY,
Every player comes through the draft, unless you were undrafted! And the majority of stars in this league were drafted! So there! You still smell like Aqua Velva!
I think most GM's will tell you that you build your team through a balance of using Free Agency, the Draft, and undrafted players; I mean since it is the only way to sign players. A GM cannot overload big $$ through Free Agency and expect a competitor. The same is true if you disregard Free Agency and focus solely on the draft. It has to be a balance of solid vets help teaching the younger players how to succeed what the coaches are telling them.
The Raiders have the young talent, but lack the savvy vets to help them apply what the coaches are teaching. That is the difference right now.
At this juncture, if Reggie listened to his coaching staff on what players to draft, then kudos to Reggie. The coaching staff has to be comfortable with the players they are bringing in that will understand the system the coaches are trying to implement.
The other thing working against Reggie, is what NY mentioned; not being able to retain Free Agents or Draft picks. But you have to consider the aforementioned thought. Is this due to the player, or due to the coaching carousel? I think a little of both, but more on the latter. Burris was okay in Allen's soft zone coverage; but JDR is aggressive, and he doesn't fit the aggressive defense. Kasa didn't get much playing time, and that may be on his practice performance (or lack thereof).
Stability in coaching is a must, but it has to be the right coach. Allen was not the right coach. JDR is 3 steps up from Allen, and 2 from Hue. I think he will be around a long time. JUST PROVE IT, BABY!
IMO, all the one-and-done free agents have hurt the Raiders continuity as much as helped in terms of salary cap.
That's been compounded by draft picks being sent packing.
At some point, a sustainable roster needs to be assembled. Are we any closer to that in 2015? We shall see. Four years in, and the Raiders still have more moving parts than the avg bear.
Also, there's still a question of whether or not the Raiders will meet the mandated 4-year minimum cap requirement. If they don't the Raiders would somehow have to divide the deficient monies among its roster. That's a critical part of McKenzie's job. Any shortfall could imply Davis and Raiders fans were cheated out of access to a more competitive roster over McKenzie's tenure.
"The Cowboys signed tackle La’El Collins as an undrafted free agent on Thursday"
Smart move. I'd hope McKenzie would make this move!!
Bergstrom was a compensatory pick at the end of the 3rd RD, basically making him a 4th RD pick.
Reggie couldn't sign big money long term deals to FA's when he started, remember? He had to field a team with approx. 70 mill to spend, on top of that, no players wanted to sign in Oakland under major flux and a HC that no one really knew.
You are a Denver fan
Me
The FA's that haven't been retained was done as part of the process. The roster had to be redone. There were no assets, no pick till top of the 4th Rd his 1st year. The cap was so bad, he had only 70 mill to field a TEAM for 2 years.
So how else do you build up a franchise...tell us Mr. Questions....tell us how you would have gone about rebuilding this franchise....start.....now.
Me
Food for thought ...
Of the 22 projected starters, 11 of the players were drafted by RM and 9 are players he signed as free agents;
Projected Starters:
LWR 85 Crabtree, Michael
RWR 19 Cooper, Amari
LT 72 Penn, Donald
LG 66 Jackson, Gabe
C 00 Hudson, Rodney
RG 69 Barnes, Khalif
RT 77 Howard, Austin
TE 81 Rivera, Mychal
QB 4 Carr, Derek
FB 45 Reece, Marcel
RB 28 Murray, Latavius
RDE 00 Edwards Jr., Mario
NT 00 Williams, Dan
LDT 92 McGee, Stacy
LDE 91 Tuck, Justin
SLB 52 Mack, Khalil
MLB 00 Lofton, Curtis
WLB 55 Moore, Sio
LCB 25 Hayden, DJ
SS 00 Allen, Nate
FS 24 Woodson, Charles
RCB 38 Carrie, Travis
Of course. McKenzie is responsible for all 22. Not sure I get the point. What else would you expect? McKenzie has turned over the roster three times in three plus years. He's 100% accountable (or least he should be).
Do you believe this is a sustainable roster, and is there any depth?
Lots of question marks in this group.
Several of these guys are working with one-year deals and/or on the verge of retirement.
IMO, McKenzie has failed the O-line if Barnes plays G, and Howard will need to be much better at RT than he was as RG.
I've read McGee has fallen way back in the depth chart. Ellis will likely start there.
Nate Allen comes with heavy criticisms from PA regarding pass coverage, yet he will be depended upon with inexperienced and injury-prone CBs (4th set of starting CBs in 4 years - that's amazing all by itself!).
Edwards Jr was an unnecessary risk in the second round (ala Menelik Watson a couple years ago). He's said to be lazy and historically has trouble maintaining proper weight. Issues that, hopefully, Ken Norton, Jr will quickly vet out.
Overall, I see the same quality players I saw last year. That said, I'm still ready to bank long-term with Carr, Mack, Jackson and Ellis (maybe Sio Moore too), and I'll add Hudson and Cooper to the list for 2015.
6-7 guys. Not exactly a fast track to rebuilding, but that's just my opinion.
And that's the whole problem with your 'opinion'. There was NO FAST TRACK.
I asked you to explain this so-called fast track, but you refuse. Because you only want to complain but offer no alternatives. Anyone can sit on top of a tree an caw....tell us how YOU would have rebuilt it, tell us how YOU would of fast tracked it.....here come the crickets again.
Me
McKenzie told you flat out why he signed those vets you complain about now. Those vets were signed because mostly of their winning pedigree. They were brought in to mold the new young guys until they could take over and lead the team. The FA's were to get the team over the hump of cap hell as well.
It's amazing that a so-called Raider fan = you, doesn't even know the strategy behind the moves made. It's amazing that so-called Raider fan still see's this team being run much like it was with Al Davis.
It leads to one conclusion, you aren't a Raider fan, you are a Bronco troll = fuck you.
Me
Rookie contracts are typically 4-year deals with 5th year option. Teams don't have the luxury of 5-6-7 year rebuilds.
It's not realistic. At the very least, it's a sign of failure.
But some how the Raiders' clock keeps getting pushed ahead. Is this Year 1 or Year 2? I keep forgetting.
Sums you up in a nutshell. You have NO PLAN, you have no idea how and why this process is being played out. You can give no alternate "fast track" plan. All you do is complain, you don't add anything but negativity in a basis of ignorance.
So whatever it is you are declaring = means NOTHING = has no value.
Obviously since the time McKenzie and Mark took over, the team has turned itself around. From the better drafts, to now a very respectable coaching staff, to a stadium deal in the works etc...
Everyone is noticing, except you, why is that? Are you dumb? Are you a Bronco fan?
I am a Raider
DJ Swearinger released by the Texans would be a great pick up for the Raiders.
Free Agency could pick back up tomorrow, hoping the Raiders bring in players to fill much needed holes.
Yeah, that is what I thought. The genius has not a word to say about how it was 'supposed to be done'.
If ya ain't got nothing better to present, then maybe you should shut your yap about 'what you think'.
If you can't stay on topic or present facts, then your 'opinion' is not worth a wooden nickel.
Until you can present a better plan and how you would go about that plan, STFU.
The team was so BURIED by it's last Owner that it was going to take a big redo to get it back to a LEVEL PLAYING FIELD. It has NEVER been done/seen in sports history so there was no timeline to go by.
It had to go step by step and it has been. Has it been a perfect ride? NO, in pro sports IT NEVER IS. The variables are enormous and the hole was so deep.
Nobody could really see the depth of it until we got to this side of it. Looking back, probably one of the worst messed up franchises in PRO SPORTS HISTORY.
Any TRUE Raider fan has to be looking at the team now and feeling positive compared to where it was when Al passed. But on this site, it's viewed as being in just as much if not more chaos than before. Which speaks to the 'members' of this site.
Me
Hey Jones, practice what you preach
I do, you won't even try me because you know it's true and truth always blows away BULLSHIT.
Tell us, Mr Wonderful, how should the Raiders have rebuilt this team. Or will you just keep trying to discredit them (Mark/Reggie)?
I write my points and I back them with FACTS. So what is your problem? That you can't pull your childish 'tricks' on me?
If you want to have a discussion, go ahead. If you want a war, go ahead. It's your choice, but don't be a pussy if your bullshit gets called out.
Back your bullshit or STFU. Don't ignore valid points, don't attack those who expose your BS. When you can get to that point, hey, I am a great guy to talk Raiders with. Until then, it's going to be... FUCK YOU.
Come clean, stop the games, fly straight or you will hit the JONES wall.
Me
Jones, did you just wake up from a 10-year nap? What have you backed up with facts? You live in the fantasy that the Raiders are magically working the only worldly process available to them.
Your facts included "tanking," and Allen being "Reggie's man" which later became Allen being a stopgap to JDR, who was Reggie's man all along.
You keep moving the fence with your BS rhetoric so it doesn't appear that you've jumped, while calling your every fantasy a proven fact.
Facts exist in the Raiders record, and McKenzie's history of proven failures in coaching choices, trades, drafts and free agency. Those are the facts.
Hopefully, JDR and his staff can finally put the Raiders on track.
Cheers!
Tell me, genius, tell me the 'better plan'...I'm still waiting.
You get "bitch of the decade award" that is for sure.
I gave you FACTS to prove they were tanking, you ignored them.
Never said Allen was Reggie's man, never wrote it once. JDR and Reggie both explained the circumstances leading up to his hire....once again, are you calling them liars? If so, where is your PROOF?
I have been very consistent since I started back when you were knocking me down for pointing out that Al Davis needed to back away and get a stadium deal done. And what proved out to be true?
The franchise today compared to then, is night and day and you wouldn't give Reggie one inch of the credit, you even say they will start to win IN SPITE of Reggie.
You are ridiculous, a pure troll who has nothing left in his little troll bag to pull out so he plays the discredit card once again.....
Tell me the better 'FAST TRACK'....starting....now
Me
"I gave you FACTS to prove they were tanking, you ignored them."
This is exactly the fantasy world you live in that I'm talking about.
That's not even sane, and you can't reason with insanity.
"Never said Allen was Reggie's man, never wrote it once."
Again, steeped in insanity because that's an outright lie. You said it over and over as you were spewing more facts about the process when Reggie first took over.
It's OK, Jones. Folks here know about you.
show the quotes...just like show the fast track...just like show the proof that Reggie and JDR are lying.
You don't show ANYTHING except your version of events.
If you dealt in facts, you wouldn't have so many questions, would you?
You lie about what I have stated, you lie about the state of the Raiders, you ignore points and just repeat your version.
I would say that proof over the years of posting comments, you are the proven flake and liar.
Enjoy your Donkies, Elway ( Mr.Ed) is killing that team.
I am a Raider
Still waiting for proof, quotes and don't forget your FAST TRACK plan.....as soon as your asked to come up with proof or FACTS...you disappear. Yeah, you are the man..cough cough.
Ladies and gentlemen....would just like announce that the fraud has been outed and will not engage in REAL Raider talk, only bashing because that is what Bronco fans are = full of shit. I win.
Me
The perfect video!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xT9pygVQwgk
I hope when Brady goes to get his suspension reduced, he is hit with 2 more games, making his total 6. It would make my year.
Deflation naturally occurs when one tucks, and we all KNOW Brady tucks!
The Raiders and Chargers close on the land in Carson today, while both teams are saying they are continuing working with their respective cities.
San Diego has proposed an offer (yesterday, I think); and now it is up to the Chargers to see if it has any merit/value, and if they will accept it. I'm hoping they do, because I do not like the idea of the Raiders/Chargers sharing a stadium which forces the Raiders to the NFC West.
June 21st is an important date, that is the deadline for the City of Oakland, and Alameda County to have a valid proposal. If not, then it will more than likely indicate the Raiders will move to Carson after this next season.
In other news, Chimdi Chekwa was cut by the Patriots, and he re-signed with the Raiders today.
I seem to remember reading they will extend the decision until after this season. My question is, what will come of the relocation fee the NFL wants to extort from teams? I read it was like a half mil. Who's paying that?
Sorry, I meant a half billion dollars.
Carr to miss OTAs due to finger injury that might need surgery.
Mark Davis proved my concern coming into the offseason that the Raiders wouldn't get in the Free Agents they want because of the facilities in a press conference yesterday shown on CSNBayArea.
He's throwing in $500 mill of his own money for a $9 mill stadium. And the $4 mill is the issue because the city and county are still paying for the upgrades his father made to O.Co. What needs to be figured out are several things:
What happens to what is still owed?
How much $$ will the NFL throw in to support a new stadium for the Raiders (if any)?
Will the Raiders own the stadium, or will the City/County?
If the Chargers get their deal, will the Raiders still move to Carson if something cannot be brokered with Oakland?
My ultimate fear is that the NFL will not throw financial support to build a stadium in Oakland to try and force Mark to sell the team. I don't understand why the NFL won't throw some money in to help lower the $400 mill difference. They've done this recently for the Bills to make renovations; and for the Cowboys, Vikings, Giants/Jets new stadiums.
I'm pulling for Mark, and I truly believe he is doing everything he can to stay in Oakland, but the city and the League are not helping. Hard to win when you don't have the support of the League like other teams.
Nate - I believe the $500M includes some contribution from the NFL. So $400M balance presumably is all on the city/county.
Lease would (again, presumably) be set to amortize cost. If there is a joint venture, the Raiders can just net out their portion.
I believe the league would contribute $200M if certain conditions are met and it is a viable plan.
Don't see any remote chance that a new stadium can be built in Oakland.
I see 5 possible outcomes;
Raiders move to Carson (play in LA Coliseum until stadium in Carson is finished) and share it with Chargers
Raiders move to Carson by themselves
Raiders move to Inglewood with Davis as owner
Raiders move to Inglewood but are sold to Stan Kroenke
Raiders stay in Oakland ... but continue to play in the toilet bowl.
Assuming Mark Davis has $500M at his disposal, what happens if he is forced to relocate? The NFL is said to impose a "transfer" fee up to $500M.
http://tinyurl.com/lahlp88
I think the NFL has been quiet about the fee because it clearly gives Oakland leverage in negotiations.
Alternately, is the NFL prepared to waive the fee, recognizing the Raiders have hit rock bottom and they have to do something for the good of the league?
The $500M to move has already been proven in a court of law that it is illegal for the NFL to request, and that was proven by Al Davis (which is why I think we had calls like the "Tuck Rule" against us).
The League is quite aware that if they were to ask for that money they would lose their "Anti-Trust" privileges as well as their tax exempt privileges. So this "transfer money" is not stopping Stan Kroenke, who I think will challenge that rule like Al Davis did, and win. If it happens again, I think the NFL will lose some of its aforementioned privileges.
With that said, Mark Davis said in the interview that it is $500 million of his own money, which implies nothing from the League. Goodell and the League has not and will not offer any $$ until a feasibility plan and stadium plans are presented, which is why I said June 21st is a big day, because that is when the Feasibility Plan and development schedule is due.
The next big day is August 21st, because that is when the financing plan is due. Once June 21st comes around, and the two plans are delivered to the League by the City/County, then the NFL will commit $$ to the project to help ease the load of the community.
The problem is, the city/county's politicians are imbeciles and do not know what they are doing. They don't even know where to begin. They want the Raiders and NFL to give them all the financing information up front, and then make plans; but it doesn't work that way. The League wants the plans to know what they are investing in. It would be like putting money down for a house in which you haven't seen the plans, land, or given a time frame of when it would be built. Goodell, Mark Davis, and others in the League have said they have heard this song and dance from the city/county for the last 5+ years.
Now Mark Davis has publicly said that he is contributing $500 million of his own money for a stadium in Oakland. It will take $900 million to build. The city/county is wanting the NFL to commit money, and the NFL is wanting the development plans, feasibility study, and blueprints finalized before committing. The city/county looks really incompetent; and their incompetence may cost them the Raiders. It has already cost them the Golden State Warriors, and it may cost them the A's too.
The way they keep turning away companies to come in and turn their community around; it's time for the people of Oakland to elect new, competent leadership.
Raidernate:
You sure Davis has $500M of HIS own money to put up for a stadium? I know you said that you heard it in an interview but I'm pretty sure that includes money from the NFL. Spanos is putting up $300M (originally $200M) for a stadium in SD -- hard to believe Davis has the wherewithal to put up more than Spanos.
If you have any link, direct quote, please share. Thanks.
The city/county is within its right to see it on paper before committing. But you'd think $400M is affordable and certainly financially feasible based on all the other new stadiums that have been constructed.
Regardless, why shouldn't the taxpayers chip in? Don't they stand to benefit? Transportation, restaurants, hotels, bars/taverns, retail, etc., all generating revenues and paying sales taxes.
Guys Mark Davis having 500mm of his own money is absolutely untrue he would be lucky if has 50mm liquid.
The 500mm is 200mm from the league and 300mm in stadium naming rights.
Mark is a fool and sounds like an idiot compared to the other owners. With his luck he will be left out in the cold. The Raiders being in Carson by themselves is not possible.
If he was smart he would go with Kroene who has the cash, the site and is ready to go. That is the most viable stadium opportunity in LA.
Sandy
Sandy, I tend to agree. I don't believe Mark has the money himself but, rather, that's what he has at his disposal.
Yet, if only $400M (less than half the total stadium cost) is being leveraged, via bond issue or other, then this should be doable.
With the A's recently signing a lease extension, I think Oakland is ready to ride this out and lose one or both of its major sports franchises. Enough years have gone by that it's become a joke to think they will ever spend the money needed for a long-term solution.
At this point, I would be fine with the Raiders sharing a stadium with the Chargers in Carson OR Kroenke buying the Raiders to move to Inglewood. What I'm not OK with is being stuck in Oakland in the worst, most antiquated professional stadium in the USA.
Calico:
http://www.csnbayarea.com/raiders/mark-davis-fans-staying-oakland-my-no-1-thing
Here's the link, watch the video in the link. MD states he is putting $500 million into it after he was asked if he is willing to put money into Coliseum City. So apparently, yes, he is putting up more than Spanos, not in LA, but to get something done in Oakland.
By the way, the question is about the 53-54 second mark, and MD's answer is about 1:00 mark because MD interrupts the question.
Yes Davis is putting his own money into this, he is even willing to sell a minority share of ownership in the Raiders not just to get $$ for bridging the gap in the stadium, but to help with operations.
I'm not sure the city/county of Oakland-Alameda's politicians have the wherewithal to compensate what Mark is trying to do for their city. It would be unfortunate (in my opinion) if the Raiders move to LA because Oakland wouldn't deal with the Raiders. A city that needs economic change, shouldn't turn away business. If the Raiders move, it will be because Oakland-Alameda turned away business.
Thanks for the video link, RN75 but this $500M that Daivs alleges to be putting up ... is he referring to his own $ or the developer Kephart's $?
Regardless, do you honestly think that the city/county will bridge the gap?
We shall see on June 21 but it doesn't look promising for the Raiders to stay in Oakland unless the team is content with continuing to play in the existing dump.
http://www.csnbayarea.com/raiders/davis-raiders-open-selling-minority-stake-franchise
Mark Davis stated in this interview that the 500M is "inclusive of the funds from the NFL."
He has 500 from all sources and is looking for Oakland to make the difference.
The Mayor has clearly stated that the city/state is in no position to put up $400M.
Unless another investor comes along to provide private funding in the next 26 days, the new stadium project in Oakland is dead in the water.
Alameda County carries Aa1 bond rating on new issues. The county has a strong financial standing due largely to a sizable reserve and ability to recover jobs and economy after its financial downturn. Their credit rating is two-tier, however, with lease-back obligations getting Aa3 rating.
Bottom line: The county is in a position to make it happen. They could make this long-term investment and keep the Raiders and all its related jobs in tact, as well as grow the local economy with increased visitation, sales tax revenues, etc.
It's doable!
There's been more talk about relocation fees. Here's a sample:
"There has been plenty of speculation that getting the opportunity to move to Los Angeles will lead to record-breaking fees. The theory being that the chance to move into a market the size of Los Angeles will automatically increase the value of the franchise, and for the other owners to surrender what's been a well-leveraged market like Los Angeles, it will be costly."
This is leverage for the city of Oakland. The Raiders really can't afford to move to LA under that circumstance. The fee could potentially be $500 million, which is all that Mark Davis has at his disposal.
Assuming Mark could pull off an "AL" and not pay a dime, the NFL would certainly withhold its portion of the stadium fund, leaving Mark with whatever other monies he can scrape up.
Honestly, I don't think this ends well for the Raiders. I think it will be several more years of annual lease renewals at o.co before something is done by the NFL out of pure desperation. I hope I'm wrong.
The best (maybe only) chance for the Raiders is if the Chargers participate in a stadium deal.
I don't think the "Relocation Fee" is an optional fee for the NFL to require; as the US Courts made it clear that it is illegal.
The interview that NY posted was interesting. MD said the Raiders have $500 million with the addition of NFL G4 loan, something he had not said in earlier statements (he had said earlier the "Raiders have $500 million"). I think the NFL is willing to help bridge the $400 million gap even more if Oakland can provide everything they need to on June 21st and August 21st deadlines.
The one remark that was interesting was MD's response that investors have been brought in by the city/county, and those investors have walked away. Is that due to the city/county's demands, or the Raiders' demands? That would have been my follow up question.
The transfer fee is a wildcard. Even if it is deemed (again) to be illegal, not paying it could preclude the Raiders from getting any funds from the NFL. I'd guess maybe half the 500 is from the NFL. Sandy offered a breakdown above.
The question I have is; has any team ever paid this fee? Plenty of teams have relocated.
When possible, shared stadiums is the way to go. Think about how few games are played by 1 team in their stadium each season (2 pre-season, 8 regular season, and possibly 1-2 playoff games). That is a max. of 12 games out of 365 days in a year.
We now know why Reggie did not re-sign Antonio Smith because he is being investigated in Texas for a potential Child Sexual Abuse case. Though he has not been charged with anything yet, it means there is a strong allegation against him to be investigated.
If he is charged and found guilty would be the most devastating news for the NFL since Ray Carruth murdered his pregnant fiance. I would support the castration of pedophiles/sexual abusers. Just saying.
NY
Its fact that the 500 Mark is made up of a loan from the NFL and stadium naming rights. The Davis's are among the very lowest rungs in the NFL in terms of wealth. Mark is a peon, though he seems to have unintentionally played himself into a good position by setting back and doing nothing(see conclusion below).
CJ,
I think you hit the nail on the head. The NFL wants to see teams share a stadium it makes financing so much easier etc. Also your right the Coliseum is an absolute toilet. I used to go see a game a year but will not go it is such a shit hole combined with the crappy product on the field its not worth it.
Goldman Sachs is putting the financing package together for Carson. Kroenke remains a wild card in that he has the ability to build a stadium with no help.
My two cents and analysis:
1. The NFL has worked behind the scenes to put in place their preferred choice which is the Chargers and Raiders in Carson. They will support St. Louis and sweeten things for Stan to stay and not cause a problem.
2. Carson is the best site in LA. Proximity to the inland empire which has many middle class whites who tend to go to games. As well as logistically it makes the most sense in terms of land, highways traffic etc.
3. Kroenke has a backup plan he can build a super wal mart in Inglewood. There is none in that area, so he does not lose out
4. Oakland and SD are completely broke no way on earth either city puts up one penny for a stadium
Conclusion: LA Raiders here we come.
Its for the best even though I find it somewhat bittersweet. If they win in LA in a new stadium the franchise value doubles after a few years. Even a fool like Mark should realize that the Raiders are worth far more in LA that they ever will be in Oakland.
Regards
Sandy
P.S. Nate how are you? I hope you have avoided all that flooding. You must be in a generous mood if you are giving Reggie credit for not resigning Smith because of his arrest. Considering Reggie chose not to resign him over a month before he was charged?
No question MD stands to get a higher valuation in LA than in Oakland. It's a smart move from that standpoint, but it's also the rub that prompts talk of a transfer fee. Lots of obstacles.
NY
The NFL will let the Raiders or whoever moves to amortize the payment fee over multiple years. That being said per your obstacle comment there is a third scenario that no one talks about but worries me. Chargers get a deal to stay in SD, Kroenke stays in St. Louis and 3 years from now the Raiders are still playing in the dilapidated Coliseum.
Now that is scary but given they have talked about a franchise in LA for 20 years and nothing happened its a distinct possibility.
Regards
Sandy
Sandy,
My family and I are doing well, thanks for asking. We are north Austin so not much street flooding like downtown, but still had to push water off my home with a push broom before it started flooding. I'm glad I don't live near a creek because there would have been nothing I could do to prevent flooding, much less a river or lake. I do have several friends that were affected by flooding and/or tornado damage though.
I've never seen that much rain fall in my life, and to rain as hard as it did for 5 hours straight was crazy. 4 major cities (San Antonio, Dallas/Ft Worth, Houston, and Austin) all flooded the same day. Say a prayer for those families who lost someone or are having to rebuild.
Regarding Smith, it makes me wonder how much Reggie knew because the Raiders cut him on March 31st. I thought they did it to renegotiate, but Reggie never contacted him after cutting him. I thought it was a curious move at the time, and now we know why. When an allegation is made, an investigation happen immediately, but necessarily against the accused. A lot of background information is gathered, possible evidence, before the accused is formally investigated. Maybe the Raiders saw the writing on the wall or knew something.
Nate,
Glad to hear you are okay. I send you my thoughts and prayers and wish you and your loved ones all the best. I have a friend in Houston and his house is a mess but he considers himself lucky in the big picture.
I guess this extreme weather is something we are all going to have to deal with as a by-product of global warming.
Living FL I know how difficult it is to clean up from storms. I hope you get to start enjoying your summer soon.
Maybe the Raiders will cheer you up come fall. I am not sad to see Smith go besides the fact he may be a scumbag his play was uninspiring at best.
Take care
Sandy
Derek Carr cleared to throw.
Jano is down with Del Rio and his coaching staff, says the atmosphere is completely different. I'm down with that, and from what I'm reading, it is clear that the attitude of the players are different than the past 3 or 4 years.
At the same time, they need to prove it. If it is different, it should equate into "W's". If it is not different, then nothing will change.
If one thing we can learn at this point in the NBA finals (still holding on hope on Warriors winning it in 7 games!?). Is that we can have a team with all the players on the same page, depth, winning attitude, raising hopeful stars, etc. Having at least ONE major impact player/ Super Star like Lebron James! Can sure makes a big difference on going all the way!!?? So who is that/or going to be that on our Raider team? I hope Carr and Mack can be those guys on both respectively sides of the ball. This year should showcase that ability to become either mediocre or greatness! And for Reggie's case, it better show this year foward!
I'd like to believe the excuses end this year.
Warriors champions, Raiders next!
The words I am hearing most from Raiders' players on Twitter, Facebook, etc, and numerous local news (i.e.-CSNBayArea) about camp, Del Rio, Norton, and the new regime are "intense", "fire", "productivity", "aggressive", "fast", "energetic", "passionate", all of which we have heard before out of Raiderland.
But there is one phrase that has eluded the recent past coaching staffs came from OC Bill Musgrave "we try to customize and tailor the system to fall in line with those strengths."
This last phrase is the most important, Norton Jr said something similar in his press conference too. This excites me. This is where I think Kiffin, Cable, and Dennis Allen failed. They built a system, but did not build it according to the roster's strengths; they built it according to what they wanted and knew expecting the roster to be able to conform to the system. Testament to this was Hue Jackson, who came in under Cable as OC and then HC; and the Raiders played like a different team. I think Del Rio, Norton Jr, and Musgrave are going to be successful because they are building according to the strengths of the roster. My optimism grows, but I am still inclined to shout:
JUST PROVE IT, BABY!
A financial plan has been given to Oakland/Alameda regarding stadium plans that bridges the $400 million gap. Part of that is not selling any part of the land to the Raiders, but spending $140 million of taxpayer money to "update the infrastructure" of the land with a new stadium for the Raiders; while clearing the debt the Raiders owe for the improvements to the current stadium (according to CSNBayArea). What is uncertain is if the $140 million being asked by the City/County includes the debt forgiveness. If not, then the city/county should push for that, otherwise, they have not represented the people of Oakland/Alameda. Also unclear, is if the $140 million includes updating O.Co for the A's. I think these will be the 2 biggest questions by the city/county that will play into the decision to accept or reject Kephart's offer; and rightfully so. As a former citizen that lived in both Oakland and Los Angeles in my lifetime, those would be the two questions I would be asking.
That $140 million would be made in the office space, housing, restaurants, and shopping. At the same time, this is a similar offer that the city/county rejected earlier; as well as the A's. The question is has Kephart included improvements that are reasonable and that the A's will agree to. I think that is a selling point to the city/county.
Even if it is not, say the revenue from the office space/housing/shops/restaurants of Stadium City will cover the rest of the $260 million; and they build 1100 condos for residents to buy (not counting the business spaces). They can charge $236,364 per condo and make that money + interest over a 30 year loan. Selling a condo for that much is cheaper than buying a home, and is reasonable, especially there in Oakland. More than likely Kephart's group will want some profit as well, so the condos go for $260-280,000; which is still reasonable. It is not a far fetched idea, and I hope it works out for the Raiders to stay in Oakland. I would really hate to see them share a stadium with the Chargers and be forced to move to the NFC West. I'd rather see them move to San Antonio.
All things being unequal (and McKenzie getting reined in a bit by his mistakes and slow progress), Del Rio should have more success than his predecessors by virtue of having more control over his roster. There's no question Del Rio carries a bigger role with the Raiders and its personnel than any previous HC, with the exception of Jackson, who had no GM before getting axed by McKenzie.
So the rumor is starting to spread that if the Raiders want a new stadium in Oakland, they are going to have to sell 20% of ownership to Kephart. There is a lot of noise that Davis doesn't want to do this, but he has publicly spoken of the fact that he is not closed to the idea either.
What do you think? Does he move the team to LA and keep complete ownership, or does he sell ownership claims to Kephart and stay in Oakland?
The much anticipated plan included a 20% sale (presumably at the bottom of valuation) and Davis financing $300 mil. That sounds like a bad joke.
There's public benefit to keeping the Raiders, so Oakland & Alameda should find some public money.
Guys
The deal Oakland/Kephart offered the Raiders is an insult and ridiculous. LA will happen. It will be good for the team. If a basketball team in LA is worth 2 billion can you imagine what a football team will be worth
Happy 4th
Sandy
RIP - Ken "the Snake" Stabler. You should be in the Hall of Fame. Thoughts and prayers to his family.
RIP Snake
I will tip one back today in your honor as: "There is nothing wrong with study the game plan by the light of the jukebox."
A great Raider, a great player, thanks for all the great memories
Sad Day
Sandy
Ken Stabler was QB when I started watching and rooting for the Raiders. No satellite TV back then but the Raiders were regularly on national TV, becoming a staple of MNF and boasting the best winning percentage in all professional sports.
I remember seeing Stabler and the Raiders beat Richard Todd-led Jets at Shea Stadium.
RIP
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