Draft Day Thread
I apologize for being an absentee landlord! Life is coming at me fast, but you are all keeping the lights on and I value the discourse, so let's keep it going. I may be short on takes lately, but I'm having fun reading yours. GO RAIDERS!
posted by Raider Take at 9:53 AM
149 Comments:
NFL Network reporting that Green Bay is looking to trade up out of the 14 spot, and earlier today, Mike Silver reported that the Raiders may be looking to trade down for more picks. Could we see the Raiders swap picks with Green Bay and get an additional 2nd round pick?
Good to see you still checking the lights Take. I pray the life coming at you fast is a good thing, and not a bad one. JUST WIN, BABY!
Nate
I prefer the Raiders stand pat at 10 I believe they will be assured of one of the following players at 10 but not 14
Vea, Ward, Fitzpatrick, Smith or Edmunds.
All those guys are 1st year solid starters. I know you love Josh Jackson but I do not think he is the caliber of Ward or Fitzpatrick or even Derwin James. If they do trade down I would like to see them grab Payne as he is not that far behind Vea
Regards
Sandy
Nate, Raiders could trade down and get Davenport but what does that mean for Irving? He was reportedly moved to DE, and you know he's a high snap count player. I think the Raiders need more help in the middle, where none of their previously drafted players has any pass rush. Ellis, Ward, Edwards, Vanderdose. These guys can't buy a sack.
Sandy, I kind of agree that I'd like to see the Raiders stand at #10. As deep as the draft is, somebody special could fall to that pick. However, I'm afraid of Edmunds due to his age and lack of experience. Raiders have drafted too many of these guys and they never pan out.
We will know soon!
RT, thanks for thinking of us and putting up a draft post. Hope all is well!
Lots of chatter about Raiders taking Mike McGlinchey, OT, Notre Dame... maybe with a trade as posted by Nate above. Also, how high is the probability that Raiders draft son of Reggie McKenzie this weekend?
Kolton Miller? With Tremaine Edmunds on the board? After Saints still Davenport, they got all stupid. What an idiotic pick....
Steelers trade Martavius Bryant to the Raiders for a 3rd Round pick.
I can relate to disappointment about not taking Edmunds or James. However, the fact they need a RT and soon a LT, the importance of the position in today's NFL it makes some sense. Combined with the fact they used the 3rd round pick from the Cards to get Martavius Bryant from the Steelers. Net net I am cool. Was anyone under the impression Edmunds was the second coming of Lawrence Taylor?
Let's be positive
regards
Sandy
The problem Sandy, is that Kolton Miller would have been there in the 2nd Round, maybe even the 3rd. Not a top 15 pick. Again, the draft is about value of where you are picking at. Edmunds, Jaire Alexander,Derwin James, Leighton Vander Esch were all more valuable at the 15 spot. Stupid pick by the Raiders.
A lot of scouts compare Kolton Miller to Robert Gallery, btw.
Nate I hear ya, it seems like he was picked too high, but I dont believe he lasts till second round. What do you think of the Bryant pick up.
Regards
Sandy
Never saw this one coming.
With all the help we need on defense and we draft a lineman WOW!!!
Should of drafted a punter instead.
And the circus continues!!!
No surprise the Raiders reached past talent level for another draft pick. That has been their history in the early rounds, since before McKenzie. There must be something in the water at Raiders HQ.
That said, they cannot miss on this pick. Kolton Miller has to immediately step in at RT and be groomed to be the Raiders next LT. Anything less will be another huge disappointment for Raiders' drafting... which there have been too many.
The guy is freakish size at 6'9", but at 309 lbs may have room to grow. He is agile for a big guy. This kid will either be a force or a flop. Hopefully, the former.
IMO, Raiders made a huge mistake trading their 3rd rd pick to the Steelers for a player with him major drug concerns and will be entering the last year of his rookie deal. This draft is a deep with talent. Steelers picked this kid in the 4th round and he's apparently failed many drug tests and been suspended.
So after scoring a 3rd round pick from the Cardinals, the Raiders blow it, again!
Reggie is probably looking over his board right now for injured players who he thinks would have been 1st round talent. McKenize lives to be a bargain shopper but fails to see he doesn't get value from players that don't play.
The question now is; how high will Reggie reach to draft son of Reggie?
I liked the move of trading down for additional picks. But Miller has to be the LT for the next 10 years to make it work.
But then to turn around and trade the 3rd rounder for what could be a one year WR with issues, makes no sense to me.
So good move picking up the extra 3rd pick, but bad move trading it away. Typical Reggie draft, going in constant circles, never moving team forward.
Remember the Raiders traded down to select Hayden, saying he was their pick all along, then selected Watson in the 2nd rd with what was compensation for trading down. Both players flopped!
This article puts a scary take on the Raiders early draft.
https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/04/27/oakland-raiders-nfl-draft-2018-kolton-miller-ucla-offensive-lineman-ot-scouting-report-what-time-tracker-picks/
Defense should have been their pick, and they should have stayed at #10 or kept the 3rd round pick instead of giving it to the Steelers.
Honestly, the Raiders look pretty stupid right now. Miller better start Day 1.
I agree with NY and Raider00 about Bryant. Talented WR when he can stay out of trouble. This could end up badly, like Aldon Smith bad.
I tried to sleep off my feelings, and couldn't. Kolton Miller is freakishly tall, and looks the part of an freakish athlete. But Bucky Brooks said it on NFL Network last night, "Apparently the Raiders didn't watch the film on him and see that he struggles with his feet, has below average technique, and has durability issues. You've heard of QB red shirting in college, well Kolton Miller may need to red shirt a few seasons before getting out there."
I don't think he plays, or even competes for RT at this point. I think RT belongs to Vadal Alexander or David Sharpe. He will replace Donald Penn, but hopefully not for 2 years. Again, this is just a bad pick. The next 4 picks after this are the kind of value I was expecting, Edmunds, James, Alexander, or Vander Esch. Edmunds and Vander Esch gives us a solid ILB. James and Alexander give us a ballhawk S or CB. I understand not taking a Safety, but not taking Jaire Alexander?
We have to get a good 2nd Round pick, not named Maurice Hurst (who has a heart issue). I think we should go Josh Jackson or Nate Sheppard (DT ranked higher than Hurst).
Nate...I would just caution that Bucky Brooks is not the final word on every player drafted. He has his opinion which he gives after the fact, and that's fine.
But if Bucky Brooks is such an expert, he'd be running the draft for one of the NFL teams. I trust that Gruden, and even Reggie, know more about football than some talking head on T.V.
I like Mel Kiper, but he's been wrong many, many times over the years. And so has Bucky Brooks, I'm sure.
That said, this kid Miller better be able to block the Donks Chubb...LoL!!
Raiders traded down in the 2nd with Tennessee and got their 2 and 3rd round pick. With the 2nd round pick they select - PJ HALL! YES! This is a terrific pick right here! Everyone was beefing up Maurice Hurst, but PJ Hall is very comparable to Vita Vea. I love this pick, steal of the draft right here!
Traded up in the 3rd to pick Brandon Parker (OT, N Carolina). He will probably compete for RT or LT. Its a good pick, better than Kolton Miller.
Nate, Give us some details on PJ Hall. He is a lot smaller than Vea, looks more like a Geno Atkins type size wise hopefully in other ways as well
Regards
Sandy
Raiders interest in OT's IMO only amplifies their past mistakes at the position. They are loaded with tackles, yet they can't ever manage to field two decent ones. Kolton Miller reminds me of the Austin Howard experiment. Being bigger than everyone else is no guarantee of success. What little video I saw of Miller shows edge rushers running around him like he wasn't there.
The Raiders lack of confidence in Miller was so profound, instead of filling their plethora of other needs, they drafted another OT two picks after Miller. These guys will complete at RT with 2-3 others from past drafts who were supposed to man the position.
In the end, we could be right where we started; without a decent right tackle.
Shame on the Raiders for not using the 1st round draft pick on a sure starter!
I don't get why, year after year, the Raiders feel the need to reach for project players in the early rounds, instead of taking players that have already cut their teeth and shown they are ready for the next level.
Raiders are still channeling Al Davis. Somebody please remind me which Al Davis (or Reggie McKenzie) project player draft pick became a star?
This is another egg-on-their-face draft. One of the defensive players drafted after the #10 slot will probably be a star... and the Raiders, once again, took a pass for a guy the they think might have the tools to be "special."
He is 6'1", 310 lbs. So yes, he is smaller, but explosive. The player most scouts are comparing him to is Warren Sapp. Yes, Sapp was small for a NT, but he was muscular and strong, using his strength to explode off the snap. That is similar to how PJ Hall is. He finished with 86.5 tackles for loss and 42 sacks for his career, squats 700 lbs, eyeballs quarterback and mirrors his scramble for secondary sacks, he wasn't invited to the Combine, but his pro day numbers included a 38" vertical, 36 lifts and a sub 4.8 forty. Not too mention he has 14 career blocked kicks (Stats taken from Walter Football and NFL.com).
NFL says his only weakness is that he tried to put on more weight, and it affected him with fatigue, which tells you the weight he put on wasn't done right, and that he was from a small school. I had him #2 behind Vita Vea as DT/NT. He will compete for a starting spot, and will possibly beat Edwards Jr. Like I said earlier, think Warren Sapp (out of school and in his prime), and that is the kind of player PJ Hall is.
With that said, I'm not sure about Brandon Parker, I don't have a lot of info on him, other than what I've read (which isn't much). Here is what NFL.com says about him:
https://www.nfl.com/prospects/brandon-parker?id=32462018-0002-5598-409f-6f5ebf25e92c
Looks like because he was at a small school, his coaching wasn't enough to help him improve to be a quality NFL starter. So I think Gruden and Cable will help coach him to be one. He has all the tools, just not the knowledge to give him that edge to start. Seems like a decent pick, and again, I bet he competes for the RT spot, maybe even the LT spot with Kolton Miller.
Not impressed with the draft overall, but I am super excited about PJ Hall. Let's hope the rest of the day gets better. Still haven't picked up a CB or any Linebacker in this draft, 2 OT's, NT, and DE who has substance abuse problems. He played at LSU too. It seems like LSU produces players with substance abuse problems. What's the deal with that?
Parker is reported to have never played RT, so he's strictly a LT in terms of his experience.
I think it's safe to say the 49ers really screwed the Raiders this year. Had the Raiders won the coin toss and picked ninth, they would have selected the kid the 49ers took, and they wouldn't have kept drafting the same position. This is a weak draft for OT, and the Raiders took two of them with their first three picks. That doesn't seem too smart. Too many intriguing defensive players in the first round to pick Miller.
IMO, absent a sure starter at LB, the Raiders have to be another step closer to signing Bowman.
Raiders trade up to take Hurst in the 5th. Probably a fair risk. If Hurst gets medical clearance and plays, he's first round talent. If he doesn't, well, the Raiders wasted another pick... at least it's not a first round pick.
Hurst was a terrific value in the 5th, but it is worth mentioning that he weighs less than PJ Hall. Nick Nelson seems to be a good pick too. He had 42 pass defenses in his collegiate year, but no picks. He will probably be a slot guy that is comparable to TJ Carrie.
Marcell Ateman is also an interesting pick in the 7th round, a WR who is 6;5"! He doesn't have a lot of speed, but he will definitely be used in Special Teams, and red-zone passing situations. Johnny Townsend is a great pick up too, and fills our punter needs.
Kolton Miller, Brandon Parker, Arden Key, and Azeem Victor are all questionable picks to me. These guys are projects that are going to have to prove themselves. In actuality, all the draft picks will have to prove themselves; but these guys are going to have to work a little more hard to prove themselves. This was definitely not the kind of draft I was expecting. Not picking an inside Linebacker until the 6th round shows me that the Raiders are trying to reach an agreement with Bowman, and Edwards Jr is on the bubble of being cut. I'm most happy about PJ Hall, he's the most exciting player we drafted. Overall, I grade this draft a solid C. It can rise or drop depending on how these players perform. Bottom line JUST PROVE IT, BABY!
IMO the Raiders tried too hard to make something work. Almost every decision they made this weekend involved a trade. They were dropping back when they should have held, moving up when they needed to be more patient (accept Hurst... that was worth it), and trading away a vital 3rd round pick to the Steelers, who are still bragging about the value they received for a player in the final year of his rookie contract.
Wrt to the draft, I think Miller and Parker present the most risk. Can these guys play OT in the NFL or are they just more bodies to take up space on the roster with the rest of the OTs not named Penn? Miller has to play right away to make sense of selecting him mid-1st round.
But I am going to be optimistic that the Raiders strengthened their D-line. Hall looks solid and Key has upside, particularly with Mack showing him how it's done. Hurst was a solid gamble in the 5th round. He's been cleared once, and he sounds like he's ready to play. Let's hope!
Also, adding talent to the DL prompted trading Ward to the Cowboys for a returner. That's addition by subtraction. Ward was a project-player bust from another draft.
Victor's stat line reads like a rap sheet. Failed drug test, DUI, broken leg, leading to weight problems... Huh? Why would they draft this guy?
Raiders are weakest at LB right now. They need Bowman back more than ever.
Bowman is the QB of the D.
Hey guys be positive team is very much improved from last year. Here is one example Autry at 6mm cap hat vs. Hurst and Key at 1.1mm. Brilliant move
An Bryant is the real thing tear the top off a defense.
Regards
Sandy
Here's S&B take on Bryant.
"Bryant failed a drug test that had him suspended the first four games of the 2015 season. Then he was suspended the entire 2016 season from failing SIX drug tests! This prompted a rehab stint.
He returned in 2017 and then lost his job to JuJu Smith-Schuster and his response was voice his desire to leave Pittsburgh. For all that, the Steelers ended up getting a pick higher than they spent when they originally drafted him."
That the Raiders would trade a 3rd round pick for this kid was their worst decision of the draft, IMO.
But I think the Raiders may have saved their draft with taking Hurst in the 5th. Yet they have an insane penchant for drafting players that fall due to injury, off-field problems, etc.
This year's class includes about half their picks.
Arden Key (drug rehab)
Nick Nelson (torn meniscus; can't participate in off-season workouts).
Maurice Hurst (heart concerns).
Azeem Victor (broken leg w/weight gain)
Add Bryant to that list for his drug rehab and 1-year suspension.
I was very opposed to any prospect the Raiders might draft Hurst with their 1st round pick, but I'm getting more and more excited with what looks like a 5th round steal. Watch any highlight reel on this kid. He's explosive and all over the field.
Hurst is the player the Raiders I imagine hoped they'd get from recent picks like Ellis, McGee, Vanderdose, Ward and Edwards.
Day 1 starter, barring any medical setbacks.
Ideally, Miller & Parker will be bookend tackles for next ten years.
Hall & Hurst will provide long needed pass rush up middle.
Key & Victor will help beef up a soft front seven.
Bryant will play great being in last year of contract.
And Townsend will make us forget we lost one of best punters in NFL.
Then again, No Reggie drafts have been ideal so far. We'll see.
NY
Love that positive vibe. Wait until you see Key in action, I live South Florida and watch tons of SEC. Serious speed around the corner.
He is worth the risk because guys with this type of edge rush talent are very hard to acquire via FA
Regards
Sandy
How comes Reggie loves drafting injured cornerbacks? This is like the 3rd or 4th one.
Mike
Sandy, my optimism is tempered by realty. I didn't like the Raiders rolling the dice so much because it has not worked for them in the past. And they doubled down early on position drafting instead of spreading their picks, which seems to indicate they were not comfortable with their early selection(s). Should we be surprised they didn't pick two punters?
IMO, Hurst was a worthwhile risk, and they effectively replaced M King.
Focus has been Raiders draft picks on D, yet they used three early draft picks (1st Rd and two 3rd Rd picks) on offense. Trading a 3rd round pick for a one-year flyer on a troubled player in Bryant was terrible. The Steelers are the only ones that made out there.
But it is what it is, and only time will tell. Is this another 2014 draft, or is it every other year that's not 2014?
NY,
I disagree on Bryant. There are very few guys in the NFL who are big play deep threats at 6'4 like he is. If he plays well they can be first to try and resign him or franchise him.
Otherwise big deal a 3rd pick other than Gabe Jackson whre has that landed the Raiders---Vanderoos, Sio Moore, Clive Walford, Calhoun. Come on man you would not take Bryant in a heart beat over those guys even for a year.
Troubled? The dude smoked weed the only people who care about that are the uptight nfl old ass owners. Looks like he has learnt his lesson. Not like he was beating up women etc.
https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/01/13/martavis-bryant-suspension-steelers-marijuana-reinstatement
Let's reach for the playoffs and a championship. That requires risks.
Regards
Sandy
Sandy, I don't make the rules. Bryant was suspended for an entire year. That places the Raiders at risk. No? Who's gonna babysit this kid to protect their investment.
Third round picks are not valuable only if you measure it against the Reggie's draft history. Plenty of WR talent in the 3rd round. Less expensive, and longer term.
Frankly, it's a bit ironic that for all the support you gave Reggie for dumping players on the mere thought they were asking for big contracts, and now you're ready to franchise tag this kid at WR... among the highest paid positions in the league... who has spent as much time suspended as he's spent on the field.
If the Raiders don't figure out Mack's contract, they will be franchising him next year.
Lots of work to do!
NY,
Okay I hear you I am getting ahead a little ahead of myself on the franchise tag to say the least. However, I gladly will take the risk with Bryant given talent wise he is better, than Watkins, Robinson, Landry, Crabtree etc.
Seriously though are you not of the opinion that the team is improved from last year? I stated in an earlier post that DL, OL, WR, DB is all measurably improved from 17.
What quality players have the Raiders lost? Autry sorta but I would rather take a chance on Hurst, Carrie a third cb at best and Melvin is better, King yeah he is great but 2mm plus for a punter? Amerson and Smith---good riddance. Olawale a FB, Patterson a great returner but not a good use of salary.
Gruden is the man. The Raiders are so lucky to have him back
Regards
Sandy
Sandy,
There is more to the marijuana problems. Smoking is not the best way to use "medicinal marijuana". You have a better outcome of using cannabis oil in a humidifier than smoking. But there are 3 good resources out there that you can Google right now about how smoking marijuana triggers schizophrenia the longer you smoke it. You are starting to see troubling signs with NFL players' mentality that is being blamed on CTE. Even though CTE does play a cause, it is not the only cause; smoking marijuana and doing other drugs (i.e.-cocaine) are having their effect as well.
A lot of players like Barrett Robbins, OJ Simpson, Herschel Walker (who has claimed to be schizophrenic) and currently Johnny Manziel, who have opened the door to their life and mental problems they are talking about (bi-polar, manic depression, schizophrenia, etc) are all now being linked to smoking marijuana by the medical community, and not CTE. So it is not just the "Old NFL Owners" who have a problem with smoking marijuana, it is the medical community. However, the medical community is not against the use of medicinal cannabis in a different, much safer way.
Also, talking about who we lost. Carrie and Amerson were our best corners. Name one person currently on the Raiders roster who put up better numbers the past 3 years than those 2 guys. Raashan Melvin 2017-13 Pdef, 3 INTs, 10 games, 30 solo tackles. TJ Carrie 2017-16 games, 9 PDef, 0 INTs, 2 Fumble Recoveries, 70 solo tackles. Amerson 2017-only played 6 games, 14 solo tackles, 4 PDefs. For his 3 years with Oakland, Amerson played in 35 games, had 45 PDef, 6 INTs, 1 forced fumble, 1 fumble recovery, 123 solo tackles. In the same 3 years, Melvin's stats-33 games, 86 solo tackles, 20 PDef, 3 INTs. He is 28 years old. Amerson is 26, and TJ Carrie is 27. TJ's 3 year stats-47 games played, 134 solo tackles, 22 PDef, 2 INTs, 2 forced fumbles, and 2 fumble recoveries. Leon Hall 3 year stats-33 games, 80 solo tackles, 12 PDef, 3 INTs, 1 forced fumble. Shareece Wright 3 year stats-35 games, 115 solo tackles, 16 PDef, 1 forced fumble, 3 fumble recoveries. Are you telling me you are happy with having these guys over Amerson and Carrie? Are you telling me that you are more excited about the prospect of Conley (who has played in 1 game)? I'm not. I am more excited about Dexter McDonald and Antonio Hamilton. These guys can play, and they need the chance. I'm hoping Gruden gives them time, I thought benching these guys and letting Borders go was Del Rio's big mistake with the secondary.
NY
Love ya bro man but you are not making sense. There is no proof of marijuana increases psychosis in fact the medical community is unanimous in that alcohol is worse for you. Sorry bro the culture wars are over, give it up. Trying to blame CTE on weed is ridiculous, do you work for the owners?
https://psychcentral.com/news/2013/12/10/harvard-marijuana-doesnt-cause-schizophrenia/63148.html
Anyway this blog is about football so lets get back to that. The stats you site are not very relevant in measuring a cb true worth. Do some research Melvin grades out much higher than Amerson or Carrie on websites like PFF not to mention Amerson wa smaking like 7mm. In fact last year Amerson got a 35 score on pff and Melvin an 85.7 look it up. Hamilton and McDonald seriously man, they suck?
Your insights more often than not are fantastic but you have been hating on the Raiders personnel since late last year---cheer up.
Regards
Sandy
Vadal Alexander has been suspended 4 games for failing PED testing.
Sandy, I don't think you meant to direct your last post to me. My take is strictly about value. I'll back off some of the commentary and give this another shot.
Raiders traded #10 pick in the draft to the Cardinals for a 3rd (79) and 5th (152). The Cardinals desperately needed the Raiders' slot to draft a franchise QB and everything I've read suggests they should have paid much more.
At #15, the Raiders take a LT in a very weak OT draft class. Then, they trade up in the 3rd to take another LT from a small school. Gruden is quoted as saying Parker made an impression on him at the Senior Bowl... but Parker gave up two sacks in that game, and his man was regularly in the QB's face.
As talented as you thing Bryant is, he is a risk. (A) He has one year left on his rookie contract... meaning next year's salary will go up like so many Raiders players you were content to see leave this year... and (B) he has been suspended by the NFL multiple times, so he is at one-and-done status with the NFL. If you think the Raiders got value, go and read some of the Steelers blogs about this trade. They are glowing about it. Hopefully, Bryant isn't the next Ricky Williams in waiting. This has nothing to do with the effects of marijunana.
That said, they did get value from drafting Hurst, and I had no issue with them trading up for that pick. Also, Key and Hall are intriguing additions.
However, Nick Nelson is another concern. This kid sustained an injury like a month ago that may keep him from playing in 2018. And he's never had an INT. That's something the Raiders secondary needs to overcome.
I'm not trying to read tea leaves, only looking at what make sense. Perhaps the best move the Raiders made with their existing roster was to trade Ward. If I'm making a prediction, Parker will be the next Raiders' Ward.
NY,
You make fair points that both tackles were a reach were they were picked. Particularly Parker when others like Orlando Brown were available. This is slightly mitigated by the importance of the tackle position and I assume the coaches not having faith in Ware, Alexander or Sharpe. I agree though if one of these guys is not starting this year it is troublesome.
Anyway my question to you and the rest of the group is given the raiders were 6-10 last year its not like the roster was so amazing. Do you not think the roster has been improved since last year. I stand by what I have written before that it is significantly improved at most key positions.
Regards
Sandy
I have faith that Hurst and Allen will improve the middle of the Raiders DL, but mostly against the pass, which is why they were drafted. Without a true MLB (Bowman!), the Raiders may suffer against the run. (New LB corp may have better coverage skills...?)
Key is not as big and certainly not as experienced as Autry. Key brings high motor but he is undersized at DE and probably useless to the Raiders at OLB. He is strictly a situational player. Autry was a capable every down player who could protect the edge.
Nelson probably won't play in 2018 due to injury. The worst thing the Raiders could do is waste their IR designation for return or, even worse, keep him on the roster when he can't play. They have wasted roster spots like this many times, including since Reggie arrived. Remember, conversely, Raiders allowed a competent rookie CB to get snatched off their practice squad last year... at a time they had room on the roster and they desperately needed CB help!
So to answer your question, I'm not sure. I still need to see the FA CB's in action. Once upon a time, Amerson was a top flight CB while with the Raiders, and TJ Carrie was always consistent and durable.
Bringing back Nelson was a mistake, IMO, but they may not have confidence in a replacement.
Derrick Johnson (LB, cut by Chiefs) visiting the RAIDERS today.
Based on Johnson's visit, clearly, the Raiders know they still need a MLB.
Per S&B, Bowman had a Pro Football Focus player rating of 84.8, 11th best in the NFL compared to Johnson’s 77.3 rating, 33rd in the league.
In total Bowman had 127 tackles in 15 games last season between the 49ers and Raiders. Johnson had 71 tackles in the same number of games.
Bowman is the superior option.
This came from S&B Nation, citing Matt Miller's Scouting Notebook...
"I spoke to over 10 scouts, coaches and executives regarding Hurst. One, in a heated rant, labeled the selection “irresponsible” by the Raiders because of Hurst’s heart condition (which hasn’t been publicly shared) and hoped the talented defender would “never put a f--king helmet on again in his life.”
That sentiment was echoed many times over, with one head coach adding, “Only the Raiders would draft a guy who could literally die on the field from a known condition.”
Yikes! Is the kid clear or not? I think the Raiders have to know definitively. That may mean Hurst can (or should) never play football again.
Raiders sign Derrick Johnson
That precludes bringing Bowman back. That's a shame. Both guys are near the end of their careers but stats show Bowman is currently a better choice.
That said, Johnson is an upgrade to the current roster.
NY,
I am going to go a little your style on this signing. I would gladly pay Bowman 3mm more than whatever they signed Johnson for.
BTW do you guys read the Athletic some really good Raider coverage. Great piece today regarding a scouting report on Arden Key.
Good Weekend
Sandy
Indeed. Johnson has two recent injuries and is 4-5 years older than Bowman. This is penny wise and pound foolish... which, in a way, describes the Raiders entire off-season. Perhaps they are pinching pennies to pay Gruden his huge contract.
Raiders still have a chance to impress this off-season. Re-sign Bowman anyway! Let Johnson compete for a roster spot.
Raiders have a new place kicker... most likely.
Eddy Pineiro K, Florida
Most accurate kicker in the nation 2017, and most accurate in Gator history. Also, has a big leg. 75% kickoffs for touchbacks, and he is taped drilling a kick through the uprights for 81 yards (posted on S&B).
The added bonus: Pineiro and Raiders' new punter, Townsend, were teammates at FL, where Townsend was Pineiro's holder the past two seasons.
This seems like a no-brainer! Raiders were smart to grab Pineiro, who went undrafted.
This weekend the Raiders signed 2nd rounder PJ Hall, TE Paul Butler (UDFA, Cal), UDFA FB Chris Williams III (Texas), 6th rounder Azeem Victor, UDFA's Marcus Baugh, Saeed Rashaad, Jason Cabina, Alexander Officer, Eddy Pineiro, Nick Sharga; and are working on their other draft picks (Key, Miller, Townsend, Hurst, and Parker. Also reports that the Raiders are still in the hunt for free agents Navarro Bowman, and according to Vic Tafur: possibly Kayvon Webster (CB, Rams), Kenny Vacarro (S, Saints), and TJ Ward (S, Bucs).
Raiders released Elijah Hood yesterday who was claimed off waivers by the Panthers today. Best wishes Elijah, sad we never saw you play in a game. Just Win Baby!
Hood looked solid in pre-season games and, IMO, he should have been given a chance to compete. I didn't agree with bringing Lynch back, nor signing Doug Martin. Lynch can't catch and he brings too much attention to himself. Martin is almost certainly washed up.
Raiders could clear the decks and tryout many players to fill the RB position. They have, and continue to do this with other positions, like LB, CB, etc. But they don't do it at RB, a position with an abundance of young talented players out there. Many other teams have found success with this approach. And it worked for Denver for so many years.
NY
Are you moving on to Lynch hating now? We all know per your comments last year that you don't like him as a person.
However, he was the best player on offense last year or tied with Hudson. Furthermore, he is beloved by his teammates and looked up to and respected by the vast majority of players in the NFL.
I can't wait to see Lynch this year with a FB and Gruden's commitment to power
football. He will be getting 20 carriers a game.
NY, We welcome you onto the Beast Mode train when you are ready?
Happy Mothers Day to all the moms out there
Regards,
Sandy
P.S.Martin is rounding era in terms of $$$ who can be cut if necessary but Richard and Washington were crapy last year
Hate is a bit strong, don't you think? I've articulated my points. Honestly, if Lynch is our best player, we're in big trouble.
Let me bullet point my casual observations which have nothing to do with me liking or hating Lynch.
- It took Lynch a half season to get into football shape, yet he often took himself off the field, and usually when he was on a roll... thereby, breaking that momentum.
- He managed to get himself suspended for a very stupid act.
- He is said to be a distraction in the huddle. Obviously, I don't know this for certain, but his personality lends credence.
- He can't catch. This is not a close call. He has stone hands for a RB, which makes him very one-dimensional.
- Due to his limited field time and one-dimensional skill, teams were able to key on Lynch when he was on the field.
- Compounding this, he is slow around the edge and not likely to outrun anyone under 300 lbs.
In fairness, here are his attributes:
- runs like a freight train and is very hard to tackle.
- secures the ball as good as anyone.
Those are two strong attributes, but I don't believe they outweigh all the negatives. My hope is that Gruden will have some influence over Lynch... but Lynch has a mind of his own and doesn't always take instruction (another fault I neglected to mention above).
CSNBayArea has the headline "Raiders sign present and future punter" after signing Townsend. I think it should read "Raiders sign present and future punter until he makes $3 million a year."
This was done after the Raiders released Josh Johnson (who I thought would be a better back up than EJ Manuel), and Colby Waldman (the punter they signed after Marquette was cut). They also signed to more undrafted players from rookie camp, one is a long snapper since Condo left.
Hard to tell what this season is going to be like. What we are finding out is the coaching staff lost the players last season. Downing never had control of the offense, and the offense didn't believe in his system. There were unresolved player issues, which is why I think Crab and King were cut. I think they told Gruden that one of them has to go, so Gruden let them both go. Now I will say PJ Hall and Hurst are an upgrade to our DT position. You watch, Hall is going to be like Warren Sapp. Dude is so stout, strong, and fast; those 3 things are going to make up for his size. That was an exciting draft pick.
My only issue is that Gruden has signed a lot of "vets" that have had injury problems the last few years (Jordy Nelson, Doug Martin, Derek Johnson, Rashaan Melvin, etc). Not sure that we really upgraded those positions. I am more excited about Martavius Bryant than I am Jordy Nelson. Nelson does have more reliable hands than, but he hasn't been right in 3 seasons. I think David Sharpe is going to be our starting RT. I would love to hear and see more from Shilique Calhoun (OLB), Treyvon Hester (DT), Antonio Hamilton (CB), Dexter McDonald (CB), Shalom Luani (S), and Obi Melifonwu (S). I think these guys were supressed under Del Rio/Norton, and will shine under Gruden.
With that said, here is how I think the 53-Man Depth Chart will play out:
QB-Carr, Manuel, Cook
RB-Lynch, Richard, Washington
FB-Keith Smith
WR-Cooper, Nelson, Bryant, Ateman, and Switzer
TE-Cook, Smith, Baugh
C-Hudson
G-Osemele, Jackson, Feliciano, Kirkland, Silberman
OT-Penn, Sharpe, Miller, Alexander (Brandon Parker will be on roster first 4 games, then designated to Practice Squad)
(25)
DE-Mack, Irvin, Key, Carradine
DT-Hall, Ellis, Hurst, Vanderdoes
OLB-Lamur, Whitehead, Calhoun, Morrow
MLB-Johnson, Victor, Lee
CB-Conley, Melvin, Hamilton, McDonald, Golson, Wright
S-Joseph, Gilcrist, Melifonwu, Luani
(25)
K-Pineiro
P-Townsend
LS-Drew Scott
Total: 53
Significant cuts will be Reggie Nelson, Breno Giacomini, James Cowser, Mario Edwards Jr, Treyvon Hester, Leon Hall, Seth Roberts, Johnny Holton.
Some interesting picks, but don't underestimate Cowser and Hester. Cowser had a stellar college career and may be just getting primed for a breakout. Not the best athlete on the field but he can be a baller.
Hester might not stick only because of sudden depth at the position. Based on highlights I watched, looks like Hall and Key have a first step advantage. Both are incredibly quick off the snap. That will be a welcome change.
I think the Raiders should go with two QBs and let Cook go. He's not that good, and can't even beat out Manual for backup role. Let's hope Bryant can stay on the field.
I can't disagree with WR choices. I was hoping they'd clean house. Roberts and Holton are both decent but very replaceable.
Drew Scott? Raiders signed the Bears long-snapper to replace Condo. Kid had a better PFF ranking than Condo, but it's hard to say it was an upgrade... more of a youth movement.
Several fringe players there. Calhoun and Carradine are marginal at best. I sincerely hope the Raiders do better. Keeping Edwards and Hester would make more sense, though the latter two or more interior players.
Nate,
Hamilton and McDonald over Nelson and Worley. I would like to bet you a plate of brisket on that one.
Enjoy the weekend
Sandy
Sandy,
Nelson is aging and wasnt very good last season. Had too many blown coverages, and looked lost. But so did the majority of our DB's. Worley is a tough one, but if it is going to be a fair competition, I think Hamilton has more of an edge over McDonald, but either one can put Worley out (if given a fair chance). All 3 are about the same height (6' and 6'1"), and I think you need good length to cover the slot, let alone outside. I think Worley can definitely make it, I just think Hamilton and McDonald deserve the spot just as much. All 3 guys are young, so if either one doesn't make the roster, I would like to see a trade and get some value.
If you want to know the truth, Worley lost the coin flips, and that is how I decided. :D
Nate,
I meant Nick Nelson not Reggie.
Have a good night
Sandy
Nick is still coming off injury, and I think he will be on the practice squad.
They are downplaying Nick Nelson's injury. But I read somewhere that he could miss training camp, possibly longer. This is McKenzie's M.O., signing and drafting injured players (or players coming off injuuy) with the intent of getting a deal. It usually works out about .001 percent of the time. Hurst falls into this category... so let's hope he bucks the trend.
Ok, with comments today by Gruden, I am putting Nick Nelson back on the 53 man roster, and Melifonwu as the guy getting cut. When asked about Melifonwu by the Las Vegas Review-Journal, Gruden talked about how he is only been seen in the training room, and hasn't participated in any of the team drills. Then he said,
He doesn’t look close to me at all, I’ll leave it at that. He doesn’t look close to me at all.”
To me that screams, "If he isn't at training camp, he's gone."
We also traded a future 7th round pick to the Jets for Christian Hackenberg (QB, played college at Penn State) to compete for a backup QB role. He has trouble hitting WRs in drills, and is known for taking out reporters. This guy is bad, and I doubt he makes the team. Hate to give up a 7th rounder for him.
Another potential change could be Reggie Nelson. From what most beat writers are saying, he played both safety slots in the 1st day of OTA's. So he may be sticking around, and if that happens Calhoun and Morrow may be on the bubble. Gilchrist and Karl Joseph were getting first team reps with Reggie Nelson, and Gilchrist was playing nickel CB with first team.
Levi Damien mentioned that Calhoun was absolutely owned by Kolton Miller today. Also said that Hurst was working with first team reps, while PJ Hall was working with 2nd and 3rd team. Mack is not at the OTA's, and Irvin said he hasn't spoken with Mack. Vic Tafur says he was impressed with Doug Martin, I think I need to see this video. I've never been impressed with Doug Martin.
Mychal Kendricks (LB) was released by the Eagles. He would be an awesome pick up for the Raiders if the $$ is right.
Gruden did one of his famous QB camps with Hackenberg, so he's familiar with him. I think it's a good idea to bring in competition for the backup QB position. I would like to see Connor Cook get better or get cut. The status quo isn't good enough.
IMO, the Raiders have to resist cutting Melifonwu. They already have too much invested in this kid, with a high pick and rookie contract. They need to try and develop him into someone that can cover TEs. That's why they drafted him.
Calhoun is terrible. This was another wasted draft pick. If he makes the roster, the Raiders are in trouble. Worse, if all they throw at Kolton Miller is Calhoun and Carradine off the edge, Miller won't get any better.
Morrow, on the other, has shown glimpses of promise.
Cooper has been lining up in the slot during OTAs and says 'he loves the slot'. This could change his career. He is possibly the best open field threat the Raiders have. It also says that Bryant and Nelson are top dogs at WR. However it shakes out, nice to know there are viable options.
NY
Finally you are coming around to the fact that threesome of:
Cooper, Nelson and Bryant
is considerably better than
Crabtree, Cooper and Roberts
I say Switzer is #4
soon NY I expect you to be singing the praises of the Hurst and Key draft picks.
Sandy
Lol, Sandy.
I posted early in the off-season that the Raiders should clear the field of last year's WRs. corps., also acknowledging that retaining Cooper would be likely and reasonable.
My wish came true, just not entirely as I'd hoped.
Nelson for Crab was a good start. Crab might be a better possession WR, but Nelson catches contested balls that Crab does not.
I still believe the Raiders reached for Bryant, and he still needs to stay clear of trouble before the Raiders capture any worth... keeping my fingers crossed.
Roberts is still in the mix, but is now fighting for a roster spot, as he should be.
Re: Hurst and Key, I have been upbeat about these guys from the start. My only criticism of Hurst was that I didn't want McKenzie to use his top pick on him because of his medical uncertainty.
That said, Gruden made the first pick, Miller, which was highly questionable. Miller is not a high first round pick. He might have been available in the 2nd round... Carr was!
Cheers!
Mychal Hendrix (LB, Eagles) visiting the Raiders today. Says he will visit Browns next and make decision by end of the week.
HI NY,
Just bustin your chops a little, thanks for taking it in good humor
I agree with you if Miller is not a pro bowl starting lt in three years the Raiders missed a chance to set up the D for years to come by combining the Key, Hurst, Hall picks with Edmunds or Derwin James.
What I am disappointed in was the sub-standard compensation they got from Arizona for trading down. I am willing to reserve judgement for the moment but if Miller does not work out then that mistakes is really compounded seeing as they could have sat tight and taken Fitzpatrick, etc.
Nate, what are your thoughts on Hendrix he seemed to fall out of favor in terms of playing time with the Eagles the last two years. However, a threesome of Johnson, Whitehead and him would be better than what we had last year?
Regards
Sandy
The Eagles also have depth/competition at LB. Not sure if it was because he was in the dog house. I think he goes to Minnesota to play with his brother, besides the Raiders probably can't match $$. I'd be pleasantly surprised if he does show up in S&B
Any one else watching the hype around mandatory camp thinking, "Wait until the pads come on, and the hitting starts"?
Every year, there is a lot of hype by the Raiders over these camps; and quite frankly, I'm not buying the hype anymore. Get the pads on, make the hits, and JUST PROVE IT, BABY!!
I hear you Nate but the mere presence of Gruden is refreshing. First legitimate coach since Gruden. I also think the defensive backfield is improved. Most importantly they need to PAY MACK, just pay the man.
On another note I know you live in Austin do you ever go to Franklin BBQ or is too touristy etc. Where do you go for good Q.
Regards
Sandy
Franklin BBQ is good, but there are a few others that are better in my opinion. Black's BBQ is the best hands down, the Salt Lick is pretty close as well. Both are a little pricey, but well worth it. Cooper's BBQ and Stubbs BBQ downtown are both pretty decent as well. Cooper's BBQ is probably a better experience if you go out NW of Austin to Llano (the original place of Cooper's). I would put Coopers, Stubbs, and Franklin's on the same level.
For cheaper BBQ in the area, Rudy's is good, and so is Burt's (north Austin). They had a real good one in North Austin called Mann's BBQ, but it went out of business when the owner either died or retired. I haven't heard what has actually happened, but heard both stories that he retired, and then I heard that he died.
If you come to Austin, let me know, we can meet up somewhere. If it is during the season, I can take you to where the Silver & Black of Central Texas meets. It is an official Raiders booster club in Austin. Last season we had over 300 people meet at a restaurant to watch the games last season.
A suspension may be looming for Bryant. This was exactly my fear when the Raiders gave up a third round pick for him. This news comes from Vegas media, based on some speculation. However, Bryant has already been suspended for an entire year, so any suspension now would be indefinite. Borrowing something Nate said, Bryant could be the Raiders next Aldon Smith.
I saw this too. The story mentioned that it is unknown what the issue is, and if it can be corrected clerically. I guess we are about to find out. Good talent wasted on lack of applying his brain.
Nate
Thanks for the BBQ post. I have been to salt lick ad yelp pics of Coopers look good. I am salivating for some Texas brisket. Next time I get to Austin we will hook up for sure.
Of course if you or any of the other guys here get to South Fl count on me for the red carpet treatment.
All the best
Sandy
Bryant apparently has not missed or failed a drug test. This looks like a false alarm.
It is a shame when Greg Papa and Tom Flores are not allowed to finish their time with the Raiders while they are still in Oakland. Tom was kind of tough to listen to at times, stumbling over his words; but dude still has a ton of knowledge about the game.
Reading on Mercury News that Greg Papa was let go because of his outspoken disagreements with Mark, and chastising him with "This is something Al wouldn't do" statements.
The worst of it is that Papa will be replaced by Brent Musberger. Why? Dude is so boring to listen too, and ABC cut him out of the broadcast booth for college football because of it. Living in TX, and listening to the majority of the games online, this is going to be a nightmare. The only way it stays better for me is if they hire Marcus Allen or Rich Gannon to replace Flores, and keep Lincoln Kennedy on the sideline. JUST WIN, BABY!
Papa will be missed. I agree about Flores; knowledgeable but increasingly difficult to listen to. Not sure about Musberger. Be nice for the org. to identify a younger, more "connected" voice for the Raiders future. Musberger isn't it. He's almost 80.
RIP Tony Sparano, the Raiders Interim HC that got Derek Carr his first professional "w". 56 is too young. Prayers to his family.
Mack will not be reporting to Training Camp tomorrow as he still awaits a new long-term contract. I was hoping something would be done by now, but multiple sites are reporting that negotiation talks are nowhere close to each other. That is a disturbing piece of news to me.
The other side of me wonders if this is all "story-headlining" by the media, if they are in the actual know of what is going on. Is Mack going to sit out training camp, and come back in preseason, and not risk injury, and get a long-term deal done in the offseason?
Needless to say, Mack used to tweet every day, and banter with other teammates. He's been eerily quiet for the last 4 months. Get it done Reggie! Get Mack back on the team before camp. JUST WIN, BABY!
McKenzie overpaid to bring back Ellis, but he's a bargain shopper. Maybe he doesn't want to pay for the best defender in the NFL...? Raiders defense falls well below average w/out Mack. Mack has proven he can be a game-changer. What's that worth?
Tony Sparano passing was a big loss for the NFL, players and fans.
Raiders cut Vadal Alexander. Still no contract talks with Mack, but Irvin says he talks to him everyday and he's preparing himself to play. That tells me the Raiders are not wanting to risk him having an injury.
Another report says that they are waiting for Aaron Donald's contract to be finished (they have until Aug 10th, or he becomes an RFA), and then will bring him in and offer a contract around that range. So here is until the 10th.
Hi Guys
Hope your summer is going well. If rumors are true that Gruden does not want to give Mack a long term contract that is insane. He is the best player on the team and arguably the best defensive player in the NFL. Give him his money it will be a bargain 3 years from now.
This is really disturbing and illogical.
Regards
Sandy
I don't think those rumors have any merit. Gruden has expressed numerous times that he wants Mack. I'm of the opinion the Raiders want to get a deal done after training camp ends, and preseason begins for 2 reasons:
#1-To see how the defense does without Mack
#2-To prevent a serious injury to Mack
Gruden said it the other day, "We were a terrible defense with Mack last season, our whole defense needs to play better." Most people took that as shade to Mack, but it wasn't, he was saying that Mack can't do it by himself. Other guys on the D-Line need to step up, and then our whole defense will get better because they WIN AS A TEAM! That would cause opponents not to afford a double/triple team vs. Mack, and have to focus on the entire D-Line. Then Mack will get more than 10.5 sacks in a season, we are looking at breaking the single season sack record with him. This is what Gruden wants.
Reggie McKenzie told Oakland media yesterday (Vic Tafur, Jerry McD, The Athletic writers, etc) that he speaks with Mack's representation every day. Gruden told the same media yesterday that he spoke with Mack after he was hired, and has spoken to him since. I think the Raiders and Mack are on the same page, and that page is timing. Training Camp and early preseason is not the right time for him, so they can prevent injury. Look at how many people have been injured/lost for the year so far. It is crazy. This also gives them a chance to see what the rest of the defense is made of.
Mario Edwards Jr is absolutely being owned by Kolton Miller. Maurice Hurst is having trouble being double teamed, and against the run (his MO in college) but is making noise on QB pressure, Arden Key is making some incredible noise on the D-Line; and Irvin has become a vocal leader on the D-Line. Obi Melifonwu is making noise at Safety, Nick Nelson (4th round pick) is making noise as a slot CB. Whitehead is having a monster camp so far. Antonio Hamilton and Dexter McDonald are making noise at CB too. Paul Guenther says that CB is wide open and McDonald, Hamilton, Worley, Nick Nelson, and Melvin are all making big contributions and it is going to be a good battle to see who comes out on top. Gaeron Conley was doing well until he got injured the other day with a hip strain. Gruden said there is no time table for his return, but speculation is he is out at least 2 weeks. PJ Hall and Eddie Vanderdoes have yet to participate.
On the offensive side, Kolton Miller is consistent, RT is wide open (which scares me) and not much news is coming out of that position (which scares me more). Jordy Nelson, Marcel Ateman, and Martavius Bryant are making some big noise; but Cooper is quiet; and Seth Roberts continues to have dropped passes (and now he is getting booed by the crowd at Training Camp). Jared Cook is making his presence known as well. Good stuff coming from Camp, everyone is saying that DC is a different dude at QB this year. That's a good thing, he has been making pre-snap audibles at the line again, and I think he is going to come back to form like he was a few years ago. Maybe even compete for League MVP. We will see. JUST PROVE IT, BABY!
What I heard from National media is that Raiders and Mack's reps haven't communicated since February. If true, that's really bad and maybe supports my belief that McKenzie is again bargain shopping. They don't want to pay Mack what he deserves. They would rather overpay for guys like Ellis.
However, I also believe the notion that the Raiders are waiting for the Rams to sign Donald. These two should have similar deals.
I read that Kolton Miller has struggled at LT, and that Key has had his way with Miller. Levi Damien has reached a point in his commentary that he admits Miller is a work in progress, and he can't wait for Penn to return.
I'm still not convinced selecting two OTs with two of our top three draft picks was even remotely a good decision.
Cheers!!
Damien again reported that Arden Key is schooling Kolton Miller. Maybe Key is an exceptional player, but he's no Von Miller....
Raiders waive Giorgio Tavveccio (sp?). Best wishes Giorgio!
Townsend (punter/holder) and his college counterpart K Eddy Pinerio were destined to stay together when the Raiders signed Pinerio undrafted. These two guys are next in a long line of punters/kickers in Raiders history. Taveccio is a solid kicker but his early release suggests he never had a chance. Townsend holds for a right-footed kicker. Right-footed K Mike Nugent is just camp fodder.
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First official Depth Chart released. Some interesting things to note. First, Mack is not there because he is not at camp. Second, Doug Martin is 2nd on the Depth Chart. Shocking that he ranks above Jalen Richard and DeAndre Washington. Kolton Miller is first, and Donald Penn is last on the chart, but he hasn't partaken in any practice yet either.
For all the knocks on Seth Roberts by the media, he is 2nd on the chart, and Ryan Switzer is 3rd behind Cooper and Bryant.
Eddie Vanderdoes is last on the list at DT, but he has been recovering from injury as well. But Mario Edwards Jr is still at the top over PJ Hall and Teyvon Hester.
It is interesting for the first go round on the depth chart. It will be interesting to see who gets cut and who remains.
Friday we will get our first look at Gruden's Raiders against the Lions. Just win, BABY!
Here's my 2 cents:
Mack's absence is a concern. Reports are that the two sides haven't spoken since Feb.
Richard dropped enough balls (mostly punts) last year that his roster spot is (or should be) in serious question.
Penn is LT. Miller has struggled in camp, and is a project, at best. He's not first round talent. Push comes to shove, Sharp would play LT before Miller.
Reports are that Switzer is getting most of the slot WR work, not Roberts.
Overall, I believe vets and previous-year roster players are given all due respect in initial depth chart publications. When you look at DL, especially, these guys will rotate a lot. Otherwise, guys like Vanderdose drop because they deserve to drop.
Scott Bair of CSN Bay Area Raiders has this to say about the first depth chart:
"WR – Jordy Nelson, Seth Roberts, Isaac Whitney, Marcel Ateman, Saeed Blacknall
Analysis: Ateman’s seeing more first-team reps that everybody on the list, save Nelson. The rookie seventh-round pick has been strong to start camp, especially on deep passes.
Amari Cooper, Martavis Bryant, Ryan Switzer, Dwayne Harris, Johnny Holton, Griff Whalen
Analysis: Switzer’s in better standing than Bryant at this stage. He’s the primary slot receiver. Gruden publicly demanded better from Bryant.
LT – Kolton Miler, David Sharpe, Jylan Ware (Donald Penn on PUP)
Analysis: Penn should move to the top of the depth chart when healthy, but he’s going to show well to stay there. Miller is being tested and is far from perfect, but coaches have been encouraged by his progress.
RT – Breno Giacomini, Brandon Parker, Ian Silberman
Analysis: Coaches are taking a long look at Silberman here. He has received tons of first-team work with Giacomini’s inconsistent availability. Also, David Sharpe belongs in this group. He has worked primarily on the right.
RB – Marshawn Lynch, Doug Martin, Jalen Richard, DeAndre Washington, Chris Warren, James Butler
Analysis: Seems likely either Richard or Washington make the squad, not both. That’ll be a tough call. Butler has been flashed some despite signing during camp.
DT – Mario Edwards, PJ Hall, Treyvon Hester (Eddie Vanderdoes on PUP)
Analysis: Maurice Hurst should be in this list. He might be the primary three technique, though Edwards isn’t letting go of a starting spot easy. He’s been solid to start camp.
Justin Ellis, Maurice Hurst, Ahtyba Rubin, Shakir Soto
Analysis: Ellis will play in the base, with a Hall, Edwards, Hurst rotation in the nickel.
MLB – Derrick Johnson, Marquel Lee, Jason Cabinda
Analysis: This is a nod to the veteran Johnson. Lee is winning the battle to be the base defense middle linebacker. Johnson has been working in the nickel, though Morrow can play here, too. Cabinda could work a roster spot as well."
He goes on to say that Erik Harris is above Karl Joseph and he and Obi Melifonwu could be on the chopping block. That is pretty tough for 2 young guys trying to learn the system. He also says that Dwayne Harris is going to have to show something in Kick returns to earn a spot, otherwise that belongs to Switzer. He has Switzer leading as Punt Return too, but I think that may go to Griff Whalen.
Here is my 53 man prediciton:
QB- Carr, Manuel, Cook
RB- Lynch, Richard, Martin
FB-Smith
LT-Penn, Miller
LG-Osemele, Feliciano
C-Hudson, Feliciano
RG-Jackson, Aboushi
RT-Silberman, Sharpe
WR-Cooper, Nelson, Switzer, Bryant, Ateman, Whalen
TE-Cook, Lee Smith (25)
DE-Mack, Irvin, Key, Carradine
DT-Edwards, Hall, Hurst, Ellis, Hester (Vanderdoes goes to IR)
MLB-Lee, Johnson
SLB-Lamur, Wilbur
WLB-Whitehead, Morrow
CB-Conley, Melvin, Whorley, Nelson, Wright, Hall
S-Gilchrist, Harris, Nelson, Luani (25)
K-Piniero
P-Townsend
LS-Depaola (3, totaling 53)
KR-Switzer
PR-Whalen
I will be interested to see what happens to Seth Roberts and Johnny Holton, Denver Kirkland, Breno Giacomini, Marcus Baugh, Shilique Calhoun, James Cowser, Antonio Hamilton, and Dexter McDonald. These guys have showed promise, but I don't think make the team. I would have loved to see Hamilton and McDonald step up and surprise people this offseason, and I don't know if it was lack of opportunity or what, but they haven't struggled, but they haven't impressed either. These 2 are good guys and I think they have a good future in the NFL.
I'm not scared of Mack trade rumors, he will be in camp by the 3rd preseason game.
Raiders appear set to tryout Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie at CB. Conley is a complete mystery. His time off the field far exceeds his time on, and the Raiders have grossly underestimated his injuries and downtime.
IMO, Miller and Parker are disappointing. Miller is a top pick and should be plug and play, even at LT. He's far from it. Parker is a 3rd round pick and also should be able to move in to the RT spot, particularly given the competition, or lack there of.
Both these guys need to step up to demonstrate their high draft worth.
Reminder: Parker has never played RT before the Raiders drafted him to play, uh, RT.
Parker has been injured, and hasn't been on the field. He will probably move to practice squad. Miller will get some serious reps during preseason to see how he does. Overall, I agree. We could have gotten them later than we did.
DRC would be a nice added CB. Hamilton and McDonald scrimmaged really well against the Lions the last 2 days too. I really like those 2, and think they deserve a shot at some point too; but we need leadership in that position right now.
JUST PROVE IT, BABY!
Practice squad is a dubious assignment for a 3rd round pick. If Parker is 3rd round talent, another team will claim him for its roster.
If he's injured, he might go to IR, but that's a shame too.
Raiders are in desperate need of a RT. Parker was drafted high to play RT. Absent other talent at the position, Parker has to be able to make a push. Right?
Nate
I want to give you props for your hyping of PJ Hall months ago. He looked great last night.
That being said they need Mack if the d is going to be above average.
Have a good weekend
Sandy
Thanks Sandy,
And the thing is, this is really the first look we get at Hall; he was recovering from an OTA injury. He looked awesome last night. Tremendous explosion off the ball coupled with a power push. I definitely think he and Ellis will be the starting DT's. Mario Edwards Jr, Vanderdoes, and Hurst don't have that kind of push or power.
Hurst is still having trouble with double teams, so is Edwards Jr.
Our pass defense and secondary looked outstanding too. BIG DIFFERENCE from last year. That has me fired up, and I can't wait until Mack comes back into the lineup either. They are going to cause TROUBLE!
Our offense looked good last night too. The only complaint was the hold that Kolton Miller had on Marshawn's 60 yard TD run. Connor Cook looks like a different dude, and makes me wonder what he would have been like with this group a few years ago in the playoffs against Houston. Carr looks like a completely different QB too, and looks more like he did 2 years ago when he was making adjustments at the line.
That said, I had a lot of doubts about Gruden being back, and him going with a West Coast/ZBS style offense with this team. He has mixed it well with a true Power/Zone hybrid, and the offensive line striking first. I'm super excited about our possibilities. Last night's game has me fired up and feeling minty fresh. I'm not expecting an autumn wind, I'm looking for an autumn HURRICANE coming this season. JUST PROVE IT, BABY!
No doubt Hall was impressive. It was said during the draft that he's explosive off the ball, and he showed that last night. He's smart too; proving that when he knew when to stand up and block a pass.
Don't underestimate Edwards. He is tough against the run, and he is getting better at rushing the passer. All these guys will improve once Mack is in there.
I like the aggressiveness of the defense. Guenther appears to be a significant upgrade over Norton and Del Rio. No stars in the secondary, but they all seem hungry. Some really good coverage at times. And neither Conley or Gilchrist played. Both these guys can cover.
Cook played his best ball as a pro last night. I'm not a fan of Manual, so seeing Cook play so well is reassuring. I'd like to see Cook take charge of the #2 QB and the Raiders drop the #3 QB in favor of adding an extra WR, DL or DB.
Miller's hold was a bad one, because Lynch was already by the defender. Otherwise, Miller didn't look half bad. They should cause at least some concern for Penn, who reportedly was pissed when the Raiders used their first and third picks on LTs.
Props to Warren, who ran hard in the 2nd half. Too many RBs.
Agree with too many RBs. I think Richard or Washington will be cut. Warren may be a practice squad guy or cut as well depending on how well Doug Martin does. I wasn't impressed with him last night, but he is making noise in Training Camp. Looks like he makes the team. When Marshawn met Chris Warren for the first time he asked him why he wasn't drafted, and what he did wrong. Chris replied, "I didn't do anything wrong." But Marshawn kept giving him grief that he must have done something wrong because he wasn't drafted!
I'd keep Washington over Richard and Martin. I think the Raiders should keep Warren on their roster but I also believe practice squad would be a safe play... unless he continues to bust up defenses in the pre-season.
It's a good problem to have.
There's already chatter on the Internet that Chris Warren III would not last a day on the practice squad before another team would claim him.
A competent backup RB is one that can start. Neither Richard or Washington is durable enough to be a full-time starter. Both these guys are rotation players. I'm sure we can agree that Keith Smith is not going to carry the ball. Gruden got rid of our ball-carrying FB for this bruiser, whose only job is to hit opposing players.
And even if Martin has a little left in his tank, it's nothing like the full-tank that Warren has. At 30-something and previously semi-retired, Martin is nothing special.
This should be a no-brainer. Right?
Raiders won't release Warren III, but if Gruden puts him on the practice squad, I'm afraid that will be the same thing as releasing him.
I still have bad memories of the Raiders putting Sterling Moore on the practice squad, then not adding him to the roster when they desperately needed CB help. He was signed by the Pats, who for years have been eating the Raiders lunch when it comes to personnel.
"Neither Richard or Washington is durable enough to be a full-time starter."
I disagree with this. Most RB's coming out of college don't have the durability or caliber to be a starting RB, only a few do. Barkley is the only quality rookie RB that will have the durability this season.
Most RB's out of college have to build durability due to the elongated offseason/season; which is why teams with young RB's have multiple RBs. The Titans did this with Henry, they kept Murray for a few years so Henry could build durability in the NFL. The Raiders were doing the same with Richard and Washington under Del Rio. IMO, Richard had developed quicker under Del Rio. I think Richard has the upper hand, right now, over Washington. If the Raiders keep Warren, he won't see a lot of play time. I haven't heard much of Martin since OTA. I guess when they put the pads on, he hasn't impressed as much. If he is cut, then I think Richard, Washington, and Warren may be safe.
I think this is due to younger players focusing too much on supplements that build/strengthen muscles. The problem is that your tendons and ligaments don't increase with muscle mass, and tear or pull under the stress of the increase muscle mass. A lot of athletes today are using some, but are focused on not doing too much weight lifting, muscle mass building. Those are the athletes whose careers are elongated. Charles Woodson was one who talks about it a lot too. He talks about how it hurt him early on with the Raiders, and when he went to the Packers learned tremendously how to utilize his natural muscle mass and weight lifting that help the tendons/ligaments. Just my opinion though.
Bottom line, good start to preseason. It is good to see that we finally have depth on both O & D lines. Our depth at CB looks terrific too.
Let me rephrase. I don't think Richard or Washington are starters in the NFL, regardless of their conditioning or experience. When Lynch was out of the game last year, which was a lot, neither one truly stepped up (scheme was a factor).
Once more, these guys are two of the same, e.g., size, skill set, etc.
They both had about the same # touches last year, and Richard had a better per touch avg. I think my problem with Richard is fumbles, mostly on punt returns. He had eight fumbles last year. That's excessive for any player, particularly a non-starter. By comparison, Lynch had one (but he's exceptional at securing the ball).
Raiders probably keep 4-5 RBs. These are the options, as I see it.
Lynch
Smith FB
Washington
Warren
Richard
Mysteriously, we have not heard much about Martin. Is he about to get cut? Personally, I hope so.
I wouldn't expect Warren to see much regular season action this year, but he's worth keeping around to kick the tires some more.
IMO, so many other teams understand RB position better than the Raiders. There are always talented young RBs. Every now and then you find a gem. Doug Martin had his time in the NFL, and his most recent opportunity (w/sub 3.0 avg) does not warrant revisiting.
I agree NY, Martin should be cut in favor of Warren that being said Washington and Ricard have similar skill sets.
What are your guys thoughts on Mack. I feel that all the trade rumors are total bs. However, it makes me nervous not to have him in camp. If the Raiders trade him it would be a terrible mistake, he is a generational talent at the second most important position in football. If the Raiders can not afford to pay him it is really embarrassing.
All the best
Sandy
I think he will be with the team after this next pre-season game. I will start worrying about Mack if he is not there for Week 1. The fact that the Raiders keep bringing guys in scares me, but they know a lot of guys are going to be cut, freeing up some salary, and giving them ability to get Mack deal done.
I think it is because the Raiders and Mack's agents aren't leaking any details. I think the Raiders and Mack have an agreement that he doesn't really need to be there at camp. Stay in shape, stay healthy, and come ready to play. Irvin, Edwards Jr, Ellis, Guenther, Carr, and other players talk to Mack everyday (according to these people). That tells me he has a glimpse of what the Raiders playbook and schemes are going to be like, and he will be ready.
Like I said, my perspective about this changes if he is not there week 1. JUST WIN BABY
I haven't seen any reports that the Raiders and Mack's reps are even speaking. Penn taking a pay cut might help, but I think the Raiders were blindsided by Aaron Donald's lucrative contract with the Rams, which leaves the Raiders paying more for Mack than Mack was reportedly asking. The Raiders failure to sign Mack is going to cost them more money!
Bluffing a trade is dangerous. Raiders have to be able to act on it.
IMO, the Raiders lack integrity in their BS negotiations and inability to sign Mack.
Watching the game with the Rams and I have to say, Connor Cook is right back to where he was before, looking terrible. At best, he's inconsistent.
Entire starting offense is off, but that's no excuse.
Preseason theme remains the same; MUST KEEP CWII.
I meant starting offense is out, not "off."
Sloppy at times but some good things to note too... like Chris Warren, Hall, Hurst, and most of the Raiders secondary.
EJ Manuel didn't look much better either, that is even scarier. Raiders seemed to move the ball better with EJ this game; but neither changed protection on blitzes, and both fumbled the ball twice. Although, Cook's first fumble that put the Rams up 7-0 should have been ruled an incomplete pass.
PJ Hall is just a beast. I think with Lynch, Martin, and Washington not playing, the competition is between Richard and Warren III. Warren got the load today, but when Richard touched the ball he made some good things happen too. I'd love to keep both of them, and cut either Washington or Martin.
Pharaoh Brown looked horrible with 3 holding calls. Shilique Calhoun is on his way out. Mario Edwards played, and did nothing, no pressure, nothing. Marquel Lee looks amazing, and so did Antonio Hamilton and Shareece Wright. Reggie Nelson was playing with 2nd and 3rd teamers today, but so was Karl Joseph. Gruden said Eddy Piniero has a groin injury, and we will know more tomorrow.
I didn't see Arden Key, Treyvon Hester, Dexter McDonald, Azeem Victor, or Mark Carrier.
There are some heavy rumors that despite a strong camp and preseason, the Jets may be cutting Teddy Bridgewater. If they do, we should cut both EJ and Cook and sign Bridgewater as our backup. Packers are next. It will be interesting to see how the 53 plays out.
Nate, I agree. Raiders should cut both their backup QBs. You could see the disgust (more than usual) on Gruden's face when either one of these guys was in the game.
Calhoun nicely held the edge a couple times, and was around the ball a lot. But his mistakes outweighed an otherwise solid game, including a game-ending face mask on a play the Raiders easily controlled without his help. He played a lot, so I think he'll get another chance... especially with Mack still out.
Chris Warren has to make this team. There's no room for stupidity here. HE MUST BE ON THE ROSTER! No practice squad BS. Other teams are now watching this kid. I don't get the whole Doug Martin thing. Why was he even signed? He was out of the NFL, coming off sub-3.0 avg YPC. Yet, the Raiders are treating him like he's a secret weapon that they're waiting for the regular season to unleash.
If Pharaoh Brown was on the bubble, he's done after that game and repeat holding calls.
I pretty sure Key, Hester and Victor all played. Perhaps sparingly.
Edwards disappears in games. The way Hall and Hurst play, Edwards will be the guy rotating in for them.
Not sure about Lee. I think Johnson will eventually start. Lee was easily supplanted last year by Bowman. I hope he's improved and he's capable of taking over. He's a player who can get into the backfield... but you also have to be very disciplined to play MLB.
I think it was Shareece Wright who broke coverage on a long pass play in the 2nd half. Gave up a huge gain.
The Rams look tough, even without the middle of their D-line and other star players. They will be hard to beat Week 1. Raiders get a huge test right away.
NY,
Hope you had a good weekend. Is this the year that you finally show Lynch some love. Don;t forget to let us know when you come around to being on board. Remember I predicted this for you sometime in 18.
Regards
Sandy
My biggest criticism of Lynch was that he was not in shape last year, taking himself off the field way too much... and at critical times. When you add that to his shortcomings as a receiver and his antics, e.g., getting suspended for hitting an official, I didn't think the juice was worth the squeeze.
Under Gruden, it seems this year might be different. But even Gruden can't control a defiant Lynch. I assume if the Raiders win games, all will be fine.
Strengths:
positive yards and ball security.
Weaknesses:
receiving, football conditioning (age?), and wildcard antics.
Potential equalizer:
Chris Warren III as his backup!
Per Gruden, he has no communications with Mack. Per Mike Florio, there's no negotiations ongoing with Mack. Florio went further to suggest the Raiders may have spent the money they offered Mack back in Feb. on signing other players. This should concern every Raiders fan. Tough to build through the draft if you can't retain your best players past their rookie contracts.
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/08/20/jon-gruden-im-not-making-100-million/
Raiders signed DRC. Rumors on Monday that Mack was in the Bay area, but haven't been able to confirm that. PAY MACK!
It's a bit ironic that the Raiders drafted Mack because they thought he would be great. So when they find out he's great, they don't want to pay him to be great.
Media reports that as many as 11 teams have reached out to the Raiders inquiring about a trade for Mack, the Jets being the most recent.
To be sure, Gruden makes the decisions; not McKenzie. Gruden conceded in an interview that the Raiders defense was "bad with Mack". He since walked that back and now concedes Mack is the best player in the NFL. That's not what you say if you're trying to negotiate a contract. That's what you say if you're trying to bait a trade.
I think his statement should be viewed more as "Defense has to me more than Mack" than a slight on Mack himself. I'm not sure he's the best in the League right now. I think that belongs to Donald, but he hasn't played a full season in 2 years.
I still think this is all an agreement with Mack/Raiders to take camp off, stay in shape, and come ready to play after Preseason Week 3. He's been in contact with Guenther, Irvin talks to him every day, and others on the team talk with him every day. He knows what is going on scheme wise, and play wise. He has proven to be working out with trainers in Buffalo, staying football ready. Exactly like Penn did last year. Reggie kept Penn away to prevent serious injury before signing him to big $$. Cooper will be next year.
Raiders waive Obi Melifonwu, a 2017 2nd round pick. I understand there's a new coach with new approach but that's about as bad as it gets, giving up on a 2nd rounder before his second year. IMO, picking him was a mistake from the start. And when the Raiders needed a CB, they played this Obi, a safety, at CB and allowed a promising young CB to get claimed off their practice squad.
Hard to say personnel decisions have gotten any better since Gruden showed up. I can't understand his infatuation with Doug Martin. Gruden has anointed Martin a "starter" and is keeping him on ice until the season. This for a guy that averaged 2.9 YPC the last two seasons. If Martin is retained and Warren released, I may not get over it. Just sayin'.
Some beat writers are questioning Obi's heart to play as the problem, and not a real injury. A guy who was never injured in college, suddenly can't stay healthy in the NFL. Bottom line, I don't think he wanted to be there.
I feel the same way about Conley right now though. We will see if he can get his big boy britches on this season. But I swear, I feel like he doesn't want to play anymore; which is why Obi was cut, and they signed DRC. Great back up plan by Gruden.
I don't get the infatuation with Doug Martin either, but I am waiting to see him play. I hope he is not as soft as Darren McFragile who tripped over the line of scrimmage, and got hurt when he was touched.
Here's a list of all of Reggie's 2nd Round picks:
Menelik Watson-Currently out of football (Broncos and Raiders questioned his heart to play)
Derek Carr-Stud
Mario Edwards Jr.-Should be cut, if he is not, I will be surprised
Jihad Ward -Jury is still out on Jihad. Shows flashes of brilliance, then fades away.
Obi Melifonwu-Cut by Raiders, who questioned his heart to play.
P.J. Hall -Jury still out, but this guy is a beast. I was excited that we drafted him. I don't know if you knew how excited I was about him, before this post or not. :D
One small point I would disagree... the jury is in on Ward; he's gone. He was inexperienced as a college player and the Raiders wasted the pick, as they did with Watson and Obi-Wan Mefiflower, or whatever his name is. All these guys lacked adequate experience at the college level.
Carr is indeed a stud, but I think Hall and Hurst (possibly Key) were all great picks. The one thing that can make all these guys better immediately is MACK!!
Re-sign MACK! Keep Warren III on the 53-man roster. Two MUSTS!
Obviously Obi was crap ass pick. Oh well at least the new admin got rid of him rather than carry dead weight in favor of using a roster spot on someone who can get on the field.
Hopefully this years draft will turn into the Carr- Watson, Mack, Gabe draft. Out of Hall, Hurst and Key they got at least two eventual starters and maybe one of the two will be a pro bowler.
Nate, big difference between Obi and Conley talent wise.
Martin will be hear for a year maybe two and if Lynch goes down he is the best choice on the roster to be the feature back. Richard and Washington are duplicates who can not go more than 7 carries a game. Warren will make the team regardless of Martin, lets see what he does when things are live, it would be great if he was Lynch's replacement eventually.
What do you guys think of Lee so far this year---NY you have not mentioned Bowman in ages---you okay man--lol
Have a good weekend
Sandy
Sandy, Lee has played pretty well in preseason. He seems to have improved. But make no mistake, Bowman was lights out better when he replaced Lee around Week 6.
That said, Derrick Johnson is the starter at MLB, not Lee. Like Doug Martin, Johnson is old and being kept on ice until the season starts.
There are many position players on this team that are one and done. Seems like Gruden will be searching for a new team again next year. Bowman is still a better option at MLB. He's at least three years younger than Johnson, and no single player made a bigger impact on D last year.
At this point, I'd be happy to get Mack back. Never thought I'd have to worry about the Raiders trading Mack, their coveted draft pick, or him sitting out on a contract dispute.
At least we should agree that building through the draft is not realistic based on the Raiders draft history and attrition of drafted players. Raiders drafted player retention has to be among the worst in the NFL.
P.S. Raiders could have a defensive ROY player in the trio of Hall, Hurst and Key. PJ Hall is the guy I would bet on. Some made comparisons with Warren Sapp. Watch how fast he is off the snap and how is explodes into or around his blocker. Dare I say, Sapp wasn't even that good by the time he played for the Raiders. Very impressive! This is why we need Mack back immediately! To make these young players better.
I threw Conley into that mix because we were all questioning his heart to play last year. An injury that should have shelved him for a few weeks, shelved him the entire season. We started to hear questions about his heart to play when he got hurt early in Training Camp too. I still think this is a reason the Raiders went and grabbed DRC.
With Obi, I don't think it was a heart issue, as some writer's are saying, I think it is a hip issue. When Obi was out there, he was lights out too, and impressing the coaches, but they couldn't further evaluate his capabilities because he wasn't out there. His injury is really "tight-lipped" which tells me he may have re-injured his hip and is done with football. I think they are tight lipped because they want to allow him to break the news. I think it is sad. He could have been a good player, but will now be considered a bust.
Not sure about Conley's injury. I think part of last year's injury falls to the Raiders for underestimating the severity. When Conley plays, he's impressive. Raiders suddenly have CBs that play aggressively, and aren't afraid to press at the LOS. No more playing 10 yards off the line and back pedaling.
I respectfully disagree, again, wrt Obi. He was a project player for the Raiders and they grossly overestimated his value (2nd rd pick) and abilities, particularly in coverage. Remember, Raiders last year played Obi at CB for one game instead of signing Breon Borders, who the Bills then signed to their 53-man roster.
Doug Martin so far early in 2nd Quarter. 7 Carries, -4 yards.
I guess there was something wrong with NFL.com last night. Stats this morning had Martin at 6 Carries, 24 yards. Still pretty dismal, considering Chris Warren came in and out preformed all the backs, except Richard (who had another stellar night out of the backfield as RB/WR).
Our backup QB situation is horrible. Ball security is an issue with both. Cook cannot seem to find his accuracy, or right protection calls. Raiders seem to perform better with Manuel, but he cannot quit coughing up the ball.
The Donald Penn at RT experiment should be over. He was easily beaten several times last night. It appeared that he was making the adjustment as if he were at LT, and looked confused. Kolton Miller was beaten several times as well; which the coaching staff is calling "getting his chops in". I don't think Miller is going to be a bad player, especially as Donald Penn and the coaching staff help out.
Nate, I agree completely.
I guess Cook had a solid college career but, for the life of me, I can't see how that's possible. He sucks! I think the Raiders have to cut bait. They can't go into the season without a backup, so Manual probably sticks... need to watch the waiver wire!
The fascination with Martin amazes me. Why? Chris Warren is still the man. The criticism of him playing better "without the ball" is way overblown. Give me a break! That's what coaches are for! If the Raiders give up on this kid, that tells me they can't coach.
The Raiders over reached drafting Miller with their top pick. And Penn looks terrible at RT. Perhaps Penn can no longer play LT either. Both tackle spots are of concern.
D-line offers lots of options, and the rookies look great. But the Raiders should not become complacent and think for a second they can fill Mack's shoes with Calhoun or Caradine, both of whom have had decent preseason. And for all the time Edwards spends on the field, he's still a non-factor in games. Same with Ellis. Honestly, the younger players are tougher and more aggressive.
Players are voicing their opinions of last years coaching and it isn't good. Bruce Irvin said he loves Norton, but the coaching from last to this year, is like night and day, according to Bruce and others. The team was a mess last year under Del Rio, IMO, all evaluations from last year should be thrown out in the trash. With better coaching and with more accountability put on the players, said players will be playing more to their potential as opposed to playing under Del Rio and his poor staff.
The Defense looks so much better already, attacking the ball and tackling is so much better. Scheme, as Irvin says, is like night and day. Finally a true NFL D.C. is in the house.
Gruden was tearing a strip off of Connor Cook last night on the sidelines. Manuel wasn't much better. Gonna be in big trouble if Carr gets hurt again. Though, with the endless supply of fresh and productive legs in the backfield, the backup QB could get by with being a game managing QB. And if the D is much improved as it is looking, still, something has to be done there.
The O-line has 2 new parts and one of the new parts was learning his new spot after a couple of practices. Going to take a little time to gel, can't just give up on it so quickly when it does have the potential to be dominant across the board.
IMO, Raiders are going to be a strong force in the NFL this year, excellent coaching and a good young core that still has room to grow.
Raider
Nice take, Raider.
Guenther is, as you said, night and day better than Norton and Del Rio, who should have stepped up as a former DC himself, but didn't.
I think I saw the sideline "chat" you referenced between Gruden and Cook. It looked to me like Gruden was pointing downfield, as if to say, "why didn't you go thru your progression and throw to the open WR downfield instead of dumping off short over the middle into traffic." Gruden has no patience, so Cook likely will not survive. There are other teams stacked with decent backup QBs. This will reveal itself during the cuts. Hopefully, the Raiders are checking every NFL roster. Cook and Manual both stink.
Back to your point, coaching looks like a huge improvement, and Raiders were surprisingly lucky to get a trio of Hall, Key and Hurst in the draft... despite using their 1st and 3rd picks on offense.
Penn deserves a mulligan for now given he was half a week back from injury and switched sides. He looked good in run game.
Miller on the other hand looks like he has some potential but I am rather nervous about him protecting Carr's blindside. At this point so early in his career he looks like a major liability against speed rushers.
NY you are right Cook is horrendous.
I wonder with Mack if a solution would be give him a couple of extra million for this year to get him into camp and deal with a longer term deal or franchise tag later. I would give him the 2mm they saved on Penn restructuring.
Key looked Jason Taylor---okay so that is a little premature of me lol. but he can really bend the edge.
Regards
Sandy
Where's Donald Hollas ??
They should sign Kapernick he is light years better than Cook and Manuel combined. Not to mention 95% of the backups in the NFL and plenty of starters too.
Regards,
Sandy
Sandy, you really want to go there? You want Kapernick to be the story in Oakland instead of football? No thanks! He ushered himself out of the NFL, and that's where he should stay.
I'd rather we (and the media) talk about PJ Hall, Hurst et al. They deserve our attention.
I don't care if a guy protests as long as it is peaceful, and neither do the players in the NFL. I want the best players on the team. Right now if Carr goes down Raiders will lose period just like the last two years. They need a competent back up.
Regards,
Sandy
Raiders traded Switzer to Pittsburgh, cut Breno Giacomini, and move Griff Whalen to IR. The trade of Switzer opens the door for Harris. Puttin Whalen on IR opens the door to keep Ateman. Giacomini being cut allows Kirkland to remain.
Gruden said he's pretty sure that Miller will start at Left Tackle Week 1, which means Donald Penn will be at the Right side. Gruden also said he will not put a time table on bringing Mack back through this grueling process.
Penn talked about not having to think playing Left Tackle, versus having to think and learn new position today. Also said that Mack is ready to be back, and deserves everything he gets when he gets it. Double speak means it is about to happen, and he'll be back soon.
Here is my 53-man roster after this week:
QB-Carr (Cook and Manuel will be cut, and someone else picked up). I am watching what the Jets do with Teddy Bridgewater here. I would love to have TB on the team backing up Carr. I was hoping we would have gone after him in the offseason and let Manuel go. Also watch for DeShone Kizer, and RG3.
RB-Lynch, Martin, Richard, Warren (Washington will be placed on IR after recent knee surgery)
FB-Keith Smith
WR-Cooper, Nelson, Bryant, Harris, Roberts, Ateman
TE-Jared Cook, Lee Smith, Mark Carrier
OL-Miller, Penn, Hudson, Jackson, Osemele, Kirkland, Feliciano, Sharpe, and Parker
(24 total with new Backup QB)
DL-Mack, Irvin, Key, Carradine, Calhoun, Brown, Hurst, Hall, Hester, Ellis
LB-Lamur, Whitehead, DJohnson, Lee, Wilber, Cowser
DB-Conley, DRC, Melvin, R Nelson, Gilchrist, Worley, N Nelson, Joseph, Harris, Luani, and Hamilton
(Total: 26)
Special Teams:
P-Townsend
K-Pineiro (Nugent may start first week)
LS-DePaola
(Total 3: Grand Total:53)
Nate, all pretty logical selections. However, I doubt the Raiders will pay for Bridgewater. Jets will want too much, e.g., part of a package for Mack.
I'm disappointed the Raiders let go of Switzer and Whalen. These guys represented 95% of the punt returns so far in preseason, and both looked good. Plus, they are both reliable slot receivers... possibly even go-to 3rd down. Whalen is a journeyman but Switzer is only a 2nd year player, and possibly has unrealized potential. Not sure the exact terms, but this trade could mean the Raiders 0-2 in trades with the Steelers this year. Bryant still has to prove himself worthy and stay out of trouble.
You may like the tackle arrangement but both Miller and Penn need to be better than they've shown, or Carr is in big trouble. Miller is easily beaten (bull-rushed and beaten around the edge), and so is Penn on the opposite side of his natural position. He's been caught pre-snap leading with the wrong foot, which should be correctable but also shows you can't teach an old dog new tricks. Let's not forget ALL the project RTs with whom the Raiders have failded miserably.
I predict Penn will be playing left tackle by Week 3. Miller needs to get stronger, quicker and smarter.... IMHO.
Pineiro better be ready. Raiders do not have a roster spot for Nugent, which may put Warren at risk. Think they'd have to cut Pineiro and hope he clears waivers. Since he's injured, he almost certainly would. Warren would most certainly not!
Raiders gave the Steelers Switzer and a 6th round pick for the Steelers 5th round pick. Depending how these teams end up, that could only be a few draft slots difference.
The Raiders gave up a 2nd round pick in Jihad Ward to get Switzer.
Can someone please remind me of a modern day - McKenzie-era - trade in which the Raiders got value? Because I'm really struggling to think of one.
We won't have to give the Jets anything if they cut Bridgewater; which may happen. They like McNown and Darnold (to me these two guys are of the same cut. Great potential, but neither uses their brains to up their game). Bridgewater is good and smart, a combination the Jets do not like in QBs for some reason. The last good Jets QB, Chad Pennington. The Jets will try to lure a trade for Bridgewater, but the Raiders will not give up Mack. The question is, if nobody bites, will they keep him or cut him?
Other QBs to watch for: Paxton Lynch (who I think got a raw deal with Elway), already mentioned DeShone Kizer and RG3, David Fales, Ryan Mallett is UFA, Matt Moore is UFA, Sandy mentioned Kaepernick, but his mechanics and arm strength are questionable; I'd rather take Moore, Mallett or Fales over him.
I would also be watching for RT being cut. None of the projections I've seen has the Raiders keeping Denver Kirkland. I think he should start at RT, and Penn at LT, just my opinion. Granted, after the first play where Miller gave up pressure against Green Bay, he settled down and didn't give up any more pressures. Penn, on the other hand, looked like a rookie at RT.
Silberman had a terrific camp, but failed to perform in preseason. Vadal Alexander really hurt us here. Not showing up to training camp after being suspended 4 games; I thought he'd take over the RT position. I look for this to be the position that is addressed in the draft this next season. It is going to be interesting to say the least. I hope they figure this out before Carr gets hurt.
Bridgewater is my first choice, but it ain't gonna happen. The Raiders would not be the only team looking, and certainly not the high bidder for a new contract (trade or no trade).
Raiders may want to keep Alexander on speed dial for Week 5.
"I look for this to be the position that is addressed in the draft this next season. It is going to be interesting to say the least. I hope they figure this out before Carr gets hurt.
Isn't this why they drafted Parker? To play RT. And if Miller doesn't last at LT, the Raiders will have wasted their 1st and 3rd round picks this year. One of these guys (a 1st and a 3rd) should be plug and play. Right?!
Mack's absence has reached defcon 4. I tend to agree with Levi Damien about the importance of getting Mack back in a Raiders uniform. If not, it could be a huge mistake for Gruden, whose decision it is to make.
https://www.silverandblackpride.com/2018/8/28/17792128/losing-khalil-mack-would-become-jon-gruden-legacy-permanent-dark-cloud-over-his-raiders-return
I will hit the button if he is not in uniform week 1. I will begin to panic if he is not at the facilities after this next preseason game.
I'm still under the impression that this is all part of the assumed agreement to keep Mack healthy. Miss Training Camp/Preseason, stay in contact with players/coaches (because he is under contract and can talk with them), stay in shape, come ready to play football after Preseason game 4 with new contract.
Mack was spotted in Oakland/Bay Area last week, and Mark Davis has the money to pay him. This isn't about the money, as much as I think it is about the timing of the guarantees/contract structure. It will be interesting. With so many conflicting reports about the Raiders thinking about trading Mack, to "They are stupid if they do", to "Mack is trade bait" tells me the mediots know nothing and it is driving them crazy. Reggie, Gruden, and Mark are keeping the mystique of the Raiders going, just like they did with Donald Penn last season.
Let's not forget Donald Penn's cryptic statement to the media last week either from CSN Bay Area:
"Left tackle Donald Penn understands what Mack is going through. He held out last preseason in search of a better deal he eventually got. While Mack’s situation is exponentially more complex given the size and scope of a potential deal, Penn can relate to what Mack might be going through. He spoke to Mack recently, got a sense of his mood during this difficult stretch.
'I talked to Khalil right before the Rams game,' left tackle Donald Penn said. 'He’s in good spirits. He’s doing good. I’m just looking forward to getting him back. I know he wants to be back. He deserves everything he’s going to get. I’ll be happy for him when he gets it.'"
The cryptic phrases are: "I'm looking forward to getting him back." and "He deserves everyting he's going to get. I'll be happy for him when he gets it."
Nate, the panic is coming from beat writers who are close to the scene as well as the fans, who pay the bills. The Penn conversation is compelling but even Mack is not directly engaged in the process. Yahoo Sports, believe them or not, is saying this has reached an ugly plateau of "pay him or trade him."
I agree with the notion that, should the Raiders lose Mack, trade or other, or even create bad blood between Mack and the org, this will be Gruden's legacy... and it won't be good.
My personal view is, don't tell me the goal is to "build through the draft" then refuse to pay good players when you're lucky enough to draft one... and it's rare! I will bet no team in the NFL has higher draft attrition than the Raiders, thereby, making any single "good" pick more valuable to the org. Mack is that x 10.
Carr and Mack are the Raiders franchise. Mack is a walking HOF'er and has actually accomplished more than Carr, who has yet to truly prove himself.
I could keep going but I better go take my blood pressure meds.
I agree NY, but I think the mediots don't know what they are talking about. The writers writing this drivel are far from the facility, unless they are writing for a hack company. Guys like Vic Tafur, the Athletic.com, Jerry Mc, Scott Bair, and a few others are all writing about how Mack won't be traded, and will be suited up for week 1.
The panic button is being hit by those who are outside, and the sources close to the situation are their imagination/opinion. Mack, not being a free agent and still under contract, probably has the playbook, and is talking with some of the players about it. He is not obstructed from having the playbook. In fact, probably received it when he was there for the Gruden announcement. I'm not worried. I will be worried if it is week 1 and he's not there.
Mack is a HoFer, and is part of the current Raiders' franchise players. To trade him would be the dumbest thing ever. Jon Gruden is not dumb, and I don't think he let's that happen.
Also, Teddy Bridgewater was just traded to the Saints for a 3rd Rounder.
What I'm conveying is coming from Levi Damien and S&B. I can't find anything in print that the two sides have negotiated since Feb. Can you?
IMO, it will take Mack coming in on his own and ready to play for his current contract, then maybe the Raiders will discuss a new contract.
Scott Bair has quoted both Reggie McKenzie and Jon Gruden as having spoken to Mack's agents on a regular basis (Jon said Reggie had been). Nobody believes it because they haven't signed him yet.
ESPN just did another click bait this morning saying, "IF the Raiders trade Mack, here are 5 places he will go." Really?
Stick with the local writers: Vic Tafur, the Athletic.com, Jerry Mc, JT the Brick, and Scott Bair. None of these writers have hit the panic button. Of course Ray Ratto is jumping on this bandwagon of Mack being traded, the Raider sky is falling so he can get national recognition. But those in and out of the facilities every day are saying Mack will be back Week 1. Pretty consistently too.
Regardless of the circumstances, or discussions, the two sides are obviously at an impasse. In just a few days, the Raiders will be preparing for the Rams. Unless something drastic happens, it doesn't look like Mack will be part of that preparation.
So, unless Mack just shows up, or the Raiders cave on all his agent's demands, I think it's unrealistic to think Mack will be back for Week 1.
I hope I'm wrong!!
My theory is they wanted him to stay healthy through preseason. I think they have an agreement, and he will be in next week.
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