One Postgame Take
Like I said earlier, Al Davis departed this earth in 2011, and this is all his inheritors (Mark Davis, Reggie McKenzie and now Jon Gruden) have to show for it?
I've been trying to hold the Clown Car back, trying to give this team the benefit of the doubt under a new regime, but there is no question that yesterday's drubbing by the Seahawks merits the return of this unfortunate emblem of incompetence.
The only good news is that the 49ers and Cardinals are on tap over the next four games, presenting an opportunity to gain a semblance of mojo. The next several weeks will be telling. We will learn if there's any mettle left here, or if this is simply a runaway train straight to the cellar of the NFL.
The Raiders' defense stinks. Why can't they fix this perennial problem of getting gashed? Every season is like Groundhog Day on defense.
My nagging doubts about Derek Carr have been broken wide open. It pains me. I like him a lot, I think he's a man of integrity.
But great quarterbacks jump off the screen. They make things happen. They find a way. They win. They don't look average for two straight years in their prime. It's starting to look like the most we can hope from Carr is that he is a good quarterback. Which in today's NFL is a recipe for mediocrity.
Nobody gives any coach--not even Belichik--a 10-year contract. Yet that's what Mark Davis did with Gruden. This is a coaching marriage unlike anything we've seen before. This could be a case of "be careful what you wish for" for Jon Gruden. He got all the money, all the security and now all the power. It's on him now to steer the team out of this mess. He has his work cut out for him.
We hoped that the Raiders' swan song in Oakland might be triumphant, or at least respectable. But if something doesn't change soon, it will be inglorious and forgettable.
posted by Raider Take at 12:26 PM
28 Comments:
Maybe Raider fans should wear clown suits? Must be clowns if we keep believing in this wackshow. Raiders were left at the bottom of the barrel when Al passed. Who would work for a Mark Davis? And we as fans have been so beaten down that we expected Del Rio, smh, to lead the team back with a mediocre roster. The core of the roster has now been so beaten down they don't know how to play the game any more? The Org was on a good path and now it's back at the starting line. And if you are into conspiracy theories, maybe the league is giving Oakland one more kick to the nuts so that the Oakland fans won't bother following the team to L.V.? I mean, if many OAKLAND Raider fans still follows this team after all the BS the OAKLAND Raider fan has had to put up with this team.....break out the clown SUITS.
Had Enough
I hold no hope for Gruden. Mark Davis does so I hope I'm wrong because we are stuck with him for the foreseeable future. In the 35 years I've been a Raiders fan, there have been more double digit loss seasons than winning seasons. In my experience being a Raiders fan has been more about disappointment then success. As such I'd rather us lose everything from here on out and get the top pick. Respectability is years away if things go well but as a Raiders fan I won't be holding my breath on that front.
Take,
I hate the clown car, despise it with every fiber of my being. The offensive line is hurt, and couldn't protect Carr yesterday. He was hit the most than he ever has been in his career yesterday. Can't expect to find a way to win, if your O-Line is not giving you the time. The dinks and dunks were his way of trying to salvage what he could given the circumstance.
Now, this is truly the first game this season where he has had any type of pressure. Not even the Rams got this much pressure against him; but he was jittery, and would not get his proper reads. Kolton Miller got schooled, but so did Silberman, Parker, and even Hudson and Gabe got in the act of letting defenders get to Carr. It looks like ol' Pete Carroll called his buddy at USC to see what was needed to put Kolton Miller to shame, because that is exactly what happened yesterday. Not even Marshawn could do anything.
Gruden is unimaginative. He has lost this team already, and lost the core young players by benching them. Then has the gall to try and sell us BS that he is starting the best available on this team. If that were true we would be at least 4-2, or 3-3. Gruden doesn't even realize that he is the train wreck on this team, and has been since his first day when he shunned Mack at his presser. No one else to blame. Del Rio lost his guys when he let Musgrave walk and not Norton Jr, and it hasn't been the same since.
Vespasian, I'm not sure respectability is years away, I think it may be another decade away. The 45 years I've been a Raiders fan, I have been through the up and downs; but this is by far the worst I've had to endure; and I am leaning toward the thoughts that "Had Enough" shared. I am going to wait to pull out the clown suit though, and see what he does. If he trades Cooper, and let's Derek Carr walk the plank after this season, I would absolutely agree with "Had Enough" and probably walk away from the loyalty I have for them. We will see.
I wish I had some words of wisdom. I truly believe Gruden was handed a better team than the s-show we've been watching. I understand Mack can't win games by himself but trading him, IMO, took the autumn wind out of the Raiders sails... players, fans and coaches. Mack was the Captain of the team, and expected others to play as hard as he does.
Imagine Guenther's surprise after being baited to be DC of a Mack-led defense....
There has to be a backstory that we may never know.
Meanwhile, Derek Carr is still shell-shocked from his injury. He may never get back the moxie he had two years ago. He doesn't exactly exude confidence when he's in the pocket. And he goes down into a fetal position when he's even touched by a defender. Play over!
Unfortunately, this season is over! Raiders aren't going to suddenly figure it out.
It's time for coaches to step up, develop the younger players and begin preparing for the future. To that point, Gruden is now saying he will get young players more involved, which is exactly what I wanted to see, and was criticized for suggesting.
What else is there?
Here is the wacko plan I see developing for Raiders.
Gruden throws this season in the toilet, but loads up on future draft picks. Raiders tank,(they do it naturally), so even their own picks will be very high.
Gruden tries a quick fix in off season. Brings in a vet QB he is more comfortable with. Signs a bunch of free agents, and mixes in the drafted young guys.
For 2019/20 season, Gruden throws in all on the field like a Jackson Pollock painting. It either works, or it doesn't work.
if it works...Gruden is off and running, everyone hails him as a genius that knew what he was doing all along.
if it doesn't work...Gruden stares down the long, lonely road of 8 more years of failure, and risking his legacy just for money.
Gruden will start to put out feelers at the college level, and seek to flee the scorched earth he leaves behind.
.............. I KNOW WHAT I DON'T KNOW !!!!!!!!!!!! .....................
Yesterday was not Carr's fault, he was under pressure the entire day and played reasonably well all things considered. He has thrown some bad picks in key situations, but his accuracy, yards per attempt and arm talent this year have all been great. I am not giving up on him and glad to have him as the Raiders QB.
Gruden, I blame him for the Mack trade of which had a demoralizing effect, and its never a good look when a hall of famer is traded that being said the final analysis is not in yet until the draft picks are made.
Unlike the rest of you negative nellys I believe the rest of the roster sucked especially the defense when Gruden got here with the exception of a couple of positions. We were a 6-10 team and even if Gruden did not change a thing the Raiders would not have been favored in any of their five loses.
Its not his fault Reggie had 7 drafts and found 4-5 good players.
Sandy
Sandy,
Which Derek Carr are you watching? Clearly not the one who regularly throws off his back foot, and sometimes lobs passes that shouldn't be thrown. And not the one who yesterday could have easily ran three yards in open field for a first down but chose to throw 30 yards down the sideline and way overthrow his target. Nor the one that threw into double coverage instead of the wide open receiver on a slant?
And why is he still throwing what he knows will be contested balls to Bryant? Bryant isn't making those catches.
To put it simply, Carr is making bad decisions. Granted, yesterday he had reason to be scared, but the bad decisions didn't get much better. I think he leads the league in INTs, certainly INTs in the red zone (end zone on first down!).
Carr needs his moxie back, because he definitely lost it. Besides losing Mack, Carr's implosion is the biggest difference between 2018 Raiders and the 2016 Raiders.
Correction, we also lost Musgrave, who the Raiders have yet to find his equal to call plays.
One more point I have made over and over... Carr is not an under-center QB. He made his hay in college playing shotgun (50 TD passes as a senior). That's how Musgrave played Carr almost exclusively.
My guess is that Carr sees the field better and is better able get through his reads. Carr used to have a lighting fast release time.
Now, he's just running for his life.
Got to add one more thing for my buddy, Sandy.
Raiders also lost Bowman this year. Might not sound like much but Bowman is a vet MLB and proved to be a shot of B-12 for the defense when he was signed around this time last year. Playing only about 10-11 games, he led the Raiders in tackles for the entire season.
Browns are about to sign Bowman, and their defense will improve, just as the Raiders did.
Meanwhile, Johnson and Whitehead are ghosts on the Raiders defense.
The 2018 starting LBs are as bad as the Raiders have fielded in a very very long time.
Jury is in. Johnson was not an upgrade over Bowman. Nothing close.
Okay NY I will give you that one on Johnson vs Bowman.
My larger point was it was an extremely flawed roster before Gruden took over, though he has been far far from perfect, I am willing to give him more than 6 games to clean up the mess he inherited.
Have a good night
Sandy
Guys read this article, it is what I have been trying to tell you. It also speaks to your guys constant screed about Gruden not be imaginative in his play calling.
https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/10/15/oakland-raiders-jon-gruden-derek-carr-defense-offensive-tackles-kolton-miller
Guys Raiders suck and Gruden has made some mistakes but he is a small part of the problem.
Sandy
Sandy, there's no disputing Gruden is the man.
But the early results are in, and it leaves real concern whether or not he can markedly improve his personnel decision-making and play calling.
Gruden Phase II is already in play... gearing up for the 2019 draft.
Maybe some desperate team will trade a high draft pick for Cooper before the trade deadline. I doubt it.
Here's my thing about Carr. I realize that he was under duress on Sunday, but I'm talking about the wider view of this year and last year.
There are at least 12 QBs in the NFL right now whom GMs would not give up in a straight-up trade for Carr. Regardless of O-Line, receiving corps, scheme, etc. Just based on pure performance ability.
Brady, Brees, Big Ben, Goff, Mahomes, Rodgers, Flacco, Ryan, Rivers, Luck, Wentz, Cousins, Watson. Probably Dalton. And likely more.
That's not to say something can't change. But that's the stark reality we're facing right now: a middle of the pack QB in a QB driven league. More Mariota than Mahomes.
If something doesn't change, don't be surprised if Chucky sharpens the axe.
RT,
First of all a middle of the pack QB would be better than what the Raiders have had for the last 30 years minus Gannon perhaps Koestler. However, Carr is better than Dalton and perhaps Flacco.
Not to mention at least 4 of those guys you mentioned wont be in the league 3 years from now. SO if I was starting a team given his age, arm talent etc. I am happy to stick with Carr.
Trying to find and develop a new QB is a crap shoot at best---or we could go with a veteran like Schaub if you prefer---lol.
Regards,
Sandy
Nah, I'll pass on Schaub, hah!
However, let's not grade on a curve of the past 30 years. As we know, that's a terrible benchmark. The motto is Commitment to Excellence, not Commitment to Okay. Just Win, Baby--not, .500! Whew We Did It, Baby.
I can stick with Carr...if he can regain his form. We are still waiting for that. So my point is, the longer we wait, the more Chucky might get impatient. Mack's gone. No one is safe.
Derrick Johnson asked for his release and it was given to him. Reports are that Cooper's heart is "not in the game" which is coach speak for he doesn't believe in the system. Gruden just also threw Melvin under the bus. He has lost this locker room and the player's respect, and is losing the younger players on this roster for benching them for trash. Will somebody take away the Infinity Gauntlet from Gruden, and bring the world back to normal? This season has been pretty comparable to Art Shell 2. Committed to Gruden's Ego. JUST MY WAY, BABY!
Nate,
Seriously its Grudens fault that Cooper's heart is not in the game. Perhaps his lack of passion explains why he has played so hot and cold for his entire career---LONG BEFORE GRUDEN GOT THERE.
If the guy is not passionate for football, good riddance. Let him recapture that somewhere else the Raiders have enough problems and don't need to give a 15mm a year contract to a guy that does not have the fire.
Regards,
Sandy
Never heard anything about him not having any heart for the game until this year. He always speaks about improving his game, and being game ready. Sure he's had his fair share of dropped passes, but everyone on this roster has (exception Cook).
This team deflated when Gruden walked in taking shots from the hip. Gruden has thrown him under the bus more than once this year about needing to get more separation for the defenders, but Carr has missed him multiple times wide open and didn't even look his way even though he was prime target.
It seems more like frustration to me than "no heart". Frustration with working hard to get open, but no looks. When he does get a look, he gets hit in the head and concussed. Frustrated with a coach constantly throwing him under the bus and now putting him on the trading block (allegedly). Frustrated that the team he plays for doesn't seem interested in keeping his talents. Put yourself in his shoes, would your "heart" be in it? Difficult to do when the people you are working for are showing signs they don't want you. So yeah, I do blame Gruden.
Make up your mind Nate is he not getting the ball thrown to him because of Gruden or Carr?
Seem like he is appreciated or they would not have picked up his 5th year option.
Cooper looked great his first two seasons and had a lot of talent but last year and this year he has been mediocre and injured a lot. I for one believe in his talent and would like to see him develop.
However, don't blame the coach or even the QB for that great WR produce regardless, i.e Deandre Hopkins
Sandy
I think if Cooper was a reliable target, he and Carr would have better chemistry. Yet, we have a proven reliable WR in Jordy Nelson who also has been quiet.
Sandy,
It is a combination of both, Gruden has been saying the last few weeks that he has to do a better job at calling Cooper's number on plays, and Carr has to recognize the open receiver. I cannot understand that, as a coach, how can you forget to call a guys' number? I had that problem with Dennis Allen when he talked about that with Marcel Reece. How can you say, as a coach, "We have to find a way to get him the ball"? Just call his number, develop plays for him. THE ONLY reason this doesn't happen is when you are a coach of scheme and not players' strengths. The only way you know how to when is by micromanaging everyone to follow your scheme, instead of utilizing the players' strengths.
Now if I am honest with you, it has to be a balance of the two. You have to have a schematic system to be effective, but you have to scheme around the players' strengths, and at the same time, challenge them to become better than where they are. I hate to say it, but this is what makes Belicheck a great coach. He knows how to do both.
NY, you said it best, you would think Carr and Cooper would have better chemistry by now, but then you look at Jordy Nelson, and he is quiet too. This clearly points to Gruden. Even Jared Cook has been silent. It is Gruden's way or the highway, and I am beginning to believe that Gruden's way is not JUST WIN, BABY; but JUST BURN, BABY! Chucky is burning the place down, and it is not going to be good. Because he cannot let go of his ego to be a coach.
Some good news; Raiders won't get embarrassed (on the field) today.
If Gruden insists on starting from scratch, then he should start from scratch.
Carr and Cooper might draw 1st round picks in trades.
Joseph cost the Raiders a 1st round pick, but he's worth maybe a 4th-5th rounder... if that.
Giants need a QB, and could have interest in Carr. They would be able to offer a high-first round pick.
Raiders could have 12 or more draft picks next season, and as many as 3-4 in the first round, if they decide to clean house.
Next few games will be battles for first pick in the 2019 draft.
With Marshawn Lynch out, Raiders have a good chance to win that battle... by losing out.
Amari Cooper has just been traded to the Cowboys for a first rounder. Gruden is an SOB
Cooper for a 1st is a steal. Once Carr is traded, should have 4 1st round picks in the next draft and maybe 20 picks overall. Obvious what is happening, Gruden doesn't like the players and knows he can't win with them. Tearing it down again, going to be a whole new team by the time they hit Vegas.
stick and move
New take is up, hit it there and give me YOUR TAKES!
Honestly, Cooper for a 1st rounder is a pretty solid deal for the Raiders, except that it will be a late round pick.
Cooper has never been reliable. Aside from his many drops, he's never had the kind of chemistry with Carr that the Raiders badly needed. He becomes a ghost for weeks at a time, then occasionally has a big game. But rarely comes down with contested passes. I think he was more of a fighter his rookie season.
Of course, the Cowboys will get more out of him. Dak Prescot (who the Raiders could have drafted instead of Connor Cook) is better than Carr. Plus, the Cowboys are a better coached team... right now.
You can believe this is all part of Gruden's master plan (like Reggie had his master plan) but the cold hard truth is Gruden was not prepared to coach again in the NFL. He had a rude awakening. Turned over 30% of the roster with mostly vets, and they were mostly duds! Some of those players have already been handed their walking papers.
So far, this whole thing has been a haphazard cluster f...
But imagine 20 draft picks. That would be a modern day record for 7 rounds. With 6-7 rookies from this year, rookies and 1-year players would account for about 50% of the roster. Another first.
Unfortunately, being unconventional doesn't make it right. Only time will tell.
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