Ravens Gameday Thread
Last week, the Raiders proved that they have been trying to win all along. Given their pitiful efforts against the Niners and Chargers, I had to wonder. It seemed like a team that was hell-bent on climbing the draft board. Then the Cardinals game happened. So it turns out that the Raiders are really just that bad, but apparently they are trying to get better. Today presents a good chance to prove that they've got a semblance of mojo, just gotta contain the rookie QB and be creative on offense. So we are officially back to: GO RAIDERS!
posted by Raider Take at 9:18 AM
22 Comments:
Happy Thanksgiving RT. Thank you for cheering on the Raiders. Personally I'm much happier when they win. I would never choose for the Raiders to lose..... looking at you NY.
Regards Sandy
DC keeps saying that it is tough to win in this league. No doubt it's tough to win, especially when you have an incompetent coaching staff and no defense. This was another winnable game for us, and we can't seem to get it together.
Gruden's return is equivalent to Art Shell 2, let that sink in.
No surprises. The QB-less Ravens were the easiest game left on the Raiders' schedule. How many times did Carr overthrow Ateman?
Can you imagine this Raiders team still has to play two games against the Chiefs? Does the NFL except forfeits?
Sandy, weren't you the one who scolded me for having any expectation of the Raiders winning this year? That's a bit ironic, don't you think?
New York you hate the Raiders when they win you hate them when they lose. Fact.
Carr played well given the circumstances
Have a great week, Sandy
Sandy, I get that you don't agree (nor like) my posts, but instead of regularly slinging criticisms at me maybe you could offer some insight as to why you think the Raiders are this bad. I'm still trying to figure it out.
Today the Raiders did just what we've come accustomed to; the offense looked good during the initial scripted plays but mostly struggled after that, then the entire team folded in the 4th quarter. Where's the coaching and the leadership?
Down by two scores with about 7 minutes left, the Raiders were dinking and dunking, just like always... as if they're trying to run out the clock. That's tough to watch.
What puzzles me is how Derek Carr went from having total command of the 2-min offense in 2016 to having no ability to run a 2-min offense in 2018. Do you think that's on Carr.
You complained that Mack wasn't winning any games for the Raiders. Well neither is Carr. But I don't blame Carr entirely. Do you? Or should Gruden trade him? ...which is entirely possibly, maybe even probable.
correction above... "accepts"
NY
I have offered insight you choose to not accept or ignore it. Here it is simple one more time though I assume you will come back with your usual talking points:
The Raiders were a mediocre team with a top heavy roster, that was about to become severely salary constrained. 3 guys making 20mm plus.
They sold high on two of their best assets and gutted the team of middling talents in order to attempt to build something that would have sustainable success.
Carr is a an above average qb who is playing behind two rookie tackles with no WRs in a new system. I would say he is playing courageous, picking up the system and will be just fine next year, pending the further development of Miller and Parker along with some WR.
Given the talent and constantly changing lineups I think the coaching staff is doing the best they can. They had a bunch of rookies and second stringers playing well until the middle of the 3rd quarter and except for three big plays (fumble return, punt return 75 yard pass to the TE) hung in there. GRUDEN IS A GREAT COACH.
In terms of your comments I like you and it is evident you are well read in terms of football. However, you just want to hate non stop on everything Raiders and it is wearing. If they win--how dare they screw up the draft, if they lose Carr and the coaching staff suck.
Regards
Sandy
Starting with 2012, the first full season Mark Davis owned the Raiders, their record is 38-70.
If you just want to isolate the Khalil Mack seasons, Raiders have losing record as well.
This is what Mark & Reggie built. But somehow, it is all Grudens fault.
Sandy, I agree, Gruden is still a top HC, but problem is, he has never built a team in the NFL. We've seen enough of Reggie to know that he can not build an NFL team. The Raiders have no one in their organization that can find the talent, hand it to Gruden, and let him coach.
It is up to Mark Davis to find that individual to be the GM. If during the upcoming off season, Reggie is retained, and keeps his title as GM. Or if Gruden is asked to build a winner on his own, Raiders will be in for long, losing, times.
I repeat, 38-70 in the Mark Davis era. The fish rots from the head down.
00--Great Otto
Completely agree, Gruden needs help with personnel and I would love to see someone like a Scott McCloughan to come in and help.
Reggie had a few hits but left very little talent for Gruden to work with, certainly not enough for a playoff run hence the tear down.
Glad to hear you believe in him as a coach. People on here comparing him to Shell II is ridiculous. The man is an offensive guru, will get the best out of Carr and put in a winning culture, something no one has come close to since he left.
Regards
Sandy
00-
That's exactly right, Gruden has never built a winning team in the NFL. He succeeded with Al Davis's team, then he beat Davis with Tony Dungy's team.
Sandy-
You are being hyperbolic with your "I hate 'em if they win or lose". If you read my posts, I am only asking for some semblance of good coaching, which I have yet to see. I still have an image of Jordy Nelson taking the hand-off on an end-around yesterday and getting smothered by the defense. Why would the slowest WR we have even be asked to do that? Roberts got around the edge with no problem. It's like that every game, e.g., throwing to Keith stone-hands Smith on critical 3rd and 4th downs, not handing the ball to Lynch on goal line plays, playing almost exclusively and predictably at the LOS. It's been insane and difficult to watch.
Want more proof?
Todd Downing offense scored 18.8 pts per game.
Jon Gruden offense is scoring 17 pts per game.
I'm a fan of Gruden - always have been - but he's been out of coaching for a long time, and the rust shows. Arguably, he's never assembled a winning team on his own, which he's now being asked and getting paid to do for the Raiders. Meanwhile, his first foray into personnel choices for the Raiders has led to several defections and left the team in its precarious spot.
Add to that, the assistant coaching choices of Olsen and Cable, and I don't think it's just coincidence that the current offense is worse than last year, despite having much of the same personnel. btw, I refuse to blame 2 rookie tackles for a failed season.
Rock bottom is really ugly. Saying otherwise is putting lipstick on a pig. If you want to dream of better days, I get that. Sure I'm a bit more cynical but that kinda comes with the territory after watching the last 15 years of failures.
Of course Gruden has not forgotten how to coach.
Jim Harbough has struggled without the talent. Look at how long it took Sean Payton to get the Saints back on track. Packers can't win with Aaron Rogers, because no one good around him. Marvin Lewis at it for 12 years with nothing to show in Cincy. Jacksonville, Atlanta, maybe even Philly, all one year wonders.
Sandy, Raiders in desperate need of a great personnel man. Look at Denver Donks, rebuilding, starting with defense and running game. Worry about the Qb later. they have a plan, know what they are doing.
Mark Davis has to get a handle on his team. If not, the rebuild, even with all the picks, could go very bad.
I agree with you 00, great coaches need talent. Bill Walsh and Jimmy Johnson both had terrible seasons when they were rebuilding their team.
NY, your negativity knows no bounds, I recall you throwing in your lot last year with Trump instead of supporting players rights to protest peacefully and then somehow blaming that for the Raiders losing games.
Have a good night Sandy
Really? You want to politicize this? Do you protest at your place of work? Or do you just want to shame me for what you assume are my political leanings?
I thought we were talking about football.
The Raiders allowed it to be a distraction in their road game against the Rebskins. The team was divided on this issue, e.g., the entire offensive line protested and Derek Carr refused to participate. I'm sure that's not why they got torched but that game was a turning point in their season... for whatever reason.
NY,
Actually you are the one that politicized it by constantly bringing that up last year. No one else on here brought up the anthem issue except you. I could care less what your political leanings are, I come here for the Raiders. That being said if you support an agenda of division and racism you should be ashamed.
I guess I just have had enough of you hating on the team and players. Case in point you hated and criticized Lynch since the day he got to the team, when in fact he has been the best player the past two years, plays his ass off and does a ton for the community. I could note a dozen other examples such as this where your negativity seems to have no basis in fact.
I guess I was under an impression that this was a site for Raider fans, but your comments makes me feel like I am visiting a Chiefs blog.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion and in spite of your comments I do believe buried deep below the negative is a true Raider fan, so I apologize for my criticism.
Going forward I will ignore the hate and negativity. When you are ready let us know if there is anything or anyone you like about the team.
It would be nice to come to this blog and see people talking about how such and such rookie is developing or what an amazing catch Cook made, or how Conley seems to be turning a corner.
All the best
Sandy
Sandy, you can kiss your career as a psychologist goodbye. You have me all wrong. You read into my posts what you want to read. My criticisms of Lynch are steeped in football, not politics. Lynch sitting for the anthem long predates Kapernik, and I could care less.
Even Gruden said Lynch was not in football shape last year. Does that make Gruden a racist Trump supporter? Lynch regularly pulled himself out of the game, to the point which teams knew when he was in he would get the ball...so they stacked the box. IMO, it's the uncertainty of Martin that has led to much of his success.
I have also said, Lynch is a hard runner and secures the ball better than any player I've ever seen.
But to me, Lynch comes off as a rogue player, not a team player. He cost the Raiders his services last year when he was suspended for his selfish behavior.
I have said many times on this blog that I believe RBs are a dime a dozen. Lots of good RBs come out of college all the time. Broncos used to spin out young stud RBs every year. The idea of signing washed up vet players has not worked for the Raiders.
Honestly, if you come here to discuss football then you must realize the Raiders are not a good team. I can appreciate your leap of faith but it's not based on the visual. Yes, Cook made an OBJ catch Sunday, and Conley is more than turning a corner; he's the best DB the Raiders have. But, strangely, Conley was benched earlier in the year for no apparent reason, and there's no guarantee either of these guys will be on the roster next year. Raiders were reportedly trying to trade Conley up to the deadline. These are the decisions I don't understand, and don't agree with.
Bottom line: I look forward to seeing what the future holds but I'm not going to pretend it will be great. My Raiders' crystal ball broke many years ago. I call 'em like I see 'em, and I enjoy and appreciate the counterpoints.
Have a nice day.
My biggest problem with Gruden right now, is the fact that he has given away the core of the Raiders' talent. We are seeing Cooper's capabilities with the Cowboys, and he may eventually go back into oblivion once he's paid, but his play in Dallas right now show's me that Cooper wasn't "disappearing" with the Raiders, the Raiders were not calling his number. The defense was bad with Mack, but Mack disrupted the opposing offense, which is something you want to build around. The ONLY reason Mack got $90+ million was due to the fact that it was after Aaron Donald. We could have gotten him for $65, but Gruden nixed it and offer half of that.
Gruden doesn't want to build around the talent already here, he wants to build his own team, and like mentioned, he has never had success building his own team. That scares me, especially the way he's come in and TNT'd a successful core. I seriously doubt at this point if Carr is our QB next year. The way he is licking Doug Martin's jock too, really scares me. We have a ton of draft picks and cap space, but I don't see anyone lining up wanting to play for the Raiders next season, the way he claims. Notice how Crabtree was nothing but love for the Raiders after Sunday, saying he loved MD, Reggie, Carr, everyone but Gruden and the coaches. That is the underlying murmur around the league with Gruden. There is not a lot of "Vets" who are excited by him, wanting to play for him. I know this because I know several people with ties in the NFL, who speak with players and coaches everyday. One is a good friend who helps organize the East-West game for underclassmen entering the draft.
Not only is his roster building questionable right now, some of his choices at position coaches are too. Cable and Olsen were not that great the first time around. Cable was not excelling with Seattle, who fired him after last season. Olsen was back to being a QB coach, his specialty, and once again promoted to OC with the Raiders.
Cable's strength is recognizing O-Line talent (Kolton Miller is turning out to be worth the pick). Olsen's strength is helping a QB understand a system. Cable needs guidance on coaching the O-Line; and Olsen needs guidance utilizing an offensive game plan; which is why they are struggling in their current positions. Head Coaches cannot afford to babysit top Assistant Coaches like this. That is why you have position coaches. Cable needs a strong OC, and Olsen is not a strong OC.
Mike Trgovac (our d-line coach) has not impressed either; neither has Travis Smith (Quality Control-Defense), David Lippincott (LB coach), nor Jim O'Neil (Sr Defensive Assistant). He doesn't have the strongest staff, but he does have a few that I am watching that are going to be good. The current QB coach, Brian Callahan is going to be a great OC in the future. I don't know how soon, but he's legit; more so than Olsen. Derrick Ansley (DB Coach) is going to be a great DC one day. Marco Coleman (Assistant D-Line), Tim Berbenich (Quality Control Offense), Frank Smith (TE coach), and Edgar Bennett (WR Coach) are going to be good.
With that said, I don't really see how much better the Raiders are going to be in the near future. Especially with rumors that this may be it for McKenzie as GM. The only way it would get better with the Raiders at that spot, is if they re-hired Amy Trask to be the GM. I would be happy with that, and it would actually be an upgrade. I was sad when McKenzie came in and let her go, that was a black eye to this organization.
We will see what Gruden can do, I hope I am wrong, but he has gotten off on a bad foot, and teams usually don't recover from some of the mistakes he has made, just ask Hue Jackson and the Browns.
Nate,
Your comment that the Raiders could have gotten Mack for 65 is pure nonsense.
First of all his contract is six years 141mm. With 60 fully guaranteed at signing and another 30 most probably guranteed assuming he is still on the team in 2020.
Seriously man you think Khalil. The problem was not the Raiders having to guarantee 60 or 90 mm the problem was paying him 23 mm a year.
Blaming it on Gruden is asinine and if it was Gruden who said no to that, bless him for not putting the team in salary cap and mediocre hell.
Sandy
Sandy,
Before the last game of the 2017-18 season (January) Reggie made a statement leading into the last week of the season that Mack was going to be taken care of shortly after the season ended. Most pundits were saying the Raiders will lock him up for $65 million guaranteed. These figures were probably leaked by Mack's agent. What changed? The hiring of Jon Gruden at the end of the season. Mack reported that he was at Gruden's press conference, and Gruden was stated as saying he wasn't going to pay Mack that kind of money. Mack held out, Aaron Donald signed his deal, then the Raiders traded Mack to the Bears who signed him for $91 million guaranteed.
So to say the Raiders couldn't have signed him for that much, is someone who is not paying attention to the details. Go back and look for yourself. I thought about pasting links here to prove it and shut you up, but why do all the work for you? Do it yourself.
Von Miller's 6-year deal was $19mm a year and $70 guaranteed. $65mm guaranteed sounds about right, but ultimately a little too low to get the deal done. Raiders had plenty of time and opportunity to sign Mack. Aaron Donald numbers didn't even exist until September. Until then, the Raiders were theoretically negotiating against Von Miller's contract, plus cost of living adj.
The simple truth is the inflationary adjustments made to the salary cap would be enough to pay for Mack's raise. So let's please get over the notion that the Raiders couldn't afford Mack. There are six ways to Sunday that has been proven false.
The choice was made. I firmly believe it was an ego thing for Gruden because Mack never showed up. I mostly blame Mack for that. Neither side appeared to have negotiated in good faith. That's the sh*ty side of the business.
It is what it is. Now Gruden has to run a ghost ship until he can field a decent team. Could be several years from now (or he'll be walking the Brown's Hue Jackson plank). Mack alone wasn't the answer, but he would have been a hell of good start and one less priority that Gruden now faces.
Raiders are historic underdogs this week. They started the week as 15-point dogs at home against the Chiefs. It's been 20+ years since a Raiders opponent has been favored by more than two TDs, let alone at a home game.
As I said before, and some scoffed at the notion, this is possibly the worst Raiders team I can remember. So far, Gruden's offense has rivaled ones coordinated by Tom Walsh and Todd Downing.
For me, it's not about a great catch that Cook made, or a strong run by Doug Martin; nor is it about the Raiders winning. Both these guys could be gone next year!
Right now, it's about coaching and leadership. It's about game planning and play calling to the strength of the players... and not trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.
With good coaching - and presumably a franchise QB in place - the Raiders should be able to get beyond the initial scripted plays in a game and make adjustments. Still waiting for some semblance of awareness and football acumen by this coaching staff that makes sense and gives me confidence they will know what to do when a better roster is in place.
Not handing the ball to Jordy Nelson on an end-around.
Not throwing a challenge flag on a pass that was clearly dropped.
Not calling dink and dunk plays down two scores late in games.
This is just last Sunday, but it's a microcosm of the entire season. Maybe Gruden is just rusty and still needs to get his sea legs under him.
Think for a minute, the Raiders have been torched this year by two first-time signal callers, including one who was undrafted.
But we're only supposed to talk about the positives. A good catch, or a decent run.
From media: "Raiders quarterback Derek Carr has responded well to Gruden's opening script. His passer rating of 128.6 trails only that of Mahomes and the New Orleans Saints' Drew Brees. The rest of the game? Carr has a rating of 88.8."
That's exactly what I'm talking about. And I don't blame Carr. He's the same QB. For same reason, the playcalling really drops off after the initial scripted plays.
To put it mildly, other teams are outsmarting the Raiders.
Nate and New York should start their own blog n&n Raiders haters United.
Nate if you think that Mack was signing for that kind of money that Von Miller got you are as out to lunch as much your writing suggests.
Why don't you go look it up the Raiders offered him contracts twice that would have made him the highest paid defensive player in history he turned it down twice. Those are direct quotes from Reggie. Mac nor his agent disputed it.
RT I love your blog and I love your approach to the Raiders. I will be taking a break from here for a while I can't stand coming to a place where guys pretend to be Raider fans but really act like Chief fans and hate on the Raiders
All the best
Sandy
Sandy,
That's a major cop out. You told us the Raiders would be bad, and now they are. If we can't critique their destruction and eventual progress, then what's the use of discussing it at all? Forget the Mack deal. It's over! But I accept the fact that you don't (or can't or refuse to) see some of the issues and concerns I have.
Conversely, if the only opinion you'll accept from me is your opinion, no thanks!
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