Steelers Gameday Thread
If the reports are true, Reggie is on his way out, seven years later with little to show for it, now that Jon Gruden has deemed his work unsatisfactory and blown up his roster.
In early September I wrote, "What you are seeing is the opening act of what will be The Gruden Show for years to come." The opening act is now complete.
We now watch today's game for signs of continued life, for some assurance that Gruden knows what he's doing and can lead this team to a successful rebuild. Our hope is now in the hands of The Gruden Show, because we have no other choice.
In early September I wrote, "What you are seeing is the opening act of what will be The Gruden Show for years to come." The opening act is now complete.
We now watch today's game for signs of continued life, for some assurance that Gruden knows what he's doing and can lead this team to a successful rebuild. Our hope is now in the hands of The Gruden Show, because we have no other choice.
posted by Raider Take at 12:52 PM
68 Comments:
Raiders playing tough here. Defense played way too soft on the two touchdowns though. Going into the half, they played Prevent-You-From-Winning defense.
Ju-Ju Smith-Schuster is having an unbelievable day, defense has to shore that up. Too much focus on Antonio Brown (rightfully so, too) but at some point have to shut Ju-Ju down. 13-10 at the half with a missed extra point, I'll take it; especially if they come out and shut the Steelers down and our offense wakes up.
Reggie isn't the only one rumored to be on his way out at the end of the season. With Jacksonville coming out and saying that Bortles will not be their starter after this season have fueled rumors that began in October, that they may pursue a trade for Derek Carr. The rumors just don't involve Derek Carr either, Tyrod Taylor is another name. But Derek Carr rumors also have possible landing spots (other than Jacksonville) as NY Giants, (now) Washington, Buffalo, Arizona, and Miami. Wouldn't that be weird, if the Cardinals took Palmer and Carr away from the Raiders?
I want to believe that Gruden is truly happy with Carr at the helm. I am happy with Carr, and I think he is a Super Bowl winning QB in the future. Whether or not he's with the Raiders, that remains to be seen. I hope Gruden keeps him around. At the same time, I see him trading him away as well. They traded Cooper because the "right opportunity came" and they knew that Cooper wasn't happy in Oakland. I don't think Carr is unhappy with Oakland, so if he is traded away, it will be from "the right price/opportunity" for the Raiders; which means another first round pick and free'd up money.
Watching Cooper destroy the Eagles today to earn the Cowboys a playoff spot, he must be thinking he died and went to football heaven.
This is amazing, hats off to the Raiders who are playing hard at the end of a lost season. That is a good sign for the Greden Show.
HE SLIPPED! HE SLIPPED! RAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIDDDDDERS WIN!!!! RAAAAAIIIIIIIIIDDDDDDDERRRRRRRRRS!!!!!!
I thought for sure with the hook-n-ladder run by Ju-Ju, the Raiders stole defeat from the jaws of victory. I'm so freakin' excited right now!!!! This is amazing!!! We have a shot to win back-to-back games.
More proof there is no "tanking" in the NFL. 49ers won and for a few brief moments the Raiders once again controlled the #1 pick in the draft. But, as it turns out, winning is more important, even if it means nothing.
I always thought losing teams were motivated to knock off teams headed to the playoffs. Turns out, it's still a hard case to make that any team tanks. Besides the Raiders and 49ers, I know the Bills and Jets both played their asses off today.
Meanwhile, Carr is in mid-season form. He was controlling the tempo, barking at his WRs and looking calm in a two-minute offense. The pass and catch to Seth Roberts was worth the price of admission.
Hats off the O-line, several of whom stayed on the field to finish the game when they were clearly injured injured. Jackson and Feliciano, who had to be helped off after the final play.
Best game for Whitehead all year, and for the D as a whole.
That was fun to watch!
One disturbing thing, though. What's up with all the terrible towels at a Raiders home game? Hate to say this, but it might be best for Mark Davis to lease another stadium next year. Oakland appears to be done with the Raiders.
Right, seems you are really stuck on the tanking topic. Raiders should have lost but they got a break. Gruden had to play it out and act all happy about it lol. The 49ers game was a very strange one indeed. Denver played as if they did not want to win.
So, looking at the Cooper situation, have you ever seen him so happy? so full of glee in playing football? Either have I, so going by the Cooper situation, the Raiders were not a tight unit and there were unhappy campers. So saying Gruden came in and screwed it up is complete silliness.
And you say that Oakland seems to be done with the Raiders, what did you expect? This sites humor is funny and unintended I am sure.
Two ton Tony
Raiders got a break? I disagree. They went and took that game with a bomb to Seth Roberts, good clock management and injured players who refused to leave the field until the job was done.
That's not a lucky break.
Cooper is playing better because he's now the man in Dallas, and he's playing on turf instead of dirt and grass where he couldn't run routes with the same precision. He always had the chops.
Gruden tried to assemble a team with vets that could win until that didn't work, then he blew it all up. He's already on Plan B. Now McKenzie is reportedly out the door.
It's not over, it's just beginning. Gruden's success or failure is still ahead...
it's funny, Cooper has come to life in Dallas, but Raiders offense is better since Cooper was dealt. hard to figure.
I think difference is, Cooper got hit in AFC West. And Cooper doesn't like getting hit. The more he got hit, the more passes he dropped, and the more invisible he became.
From what I've seen, NFC East is a soft division. Cooper is running around, everyone is watching. No hard hits. Cooper is in a comfort zone, but he can't stay there forever.
Raiders' D tried to give it away at the end, set the Steelers up real nice to hit the FG to tie the game. It was an excellent game, call it a lucky break, sweaty grass, whatever you want to call it, a win is a win. With the Raiders winning, and the Steelers, Patriots, and Doncos losing, that made it a perfect NFL Sunday for me.
DC looks like he did a few years ago. The only difference is our win-loss record. I am torn with McKenzie, he stepped in to the toughest job when Mark Davis took over, and like it or not; he helped the Raiders out of Salary Cap hell and built a good roster. Not a perfect roster, but they did have a winning season. He made some great Free Agent signings (i.e. - David Amerson, Bruce Irvin, Lynch, Michael Crabtree) and had some terrific drafts (i.e. - Derek Carr, Khalil Mack, Amari Cooper, Conley, Joseph, Hurst, and Hall) and has had some great undrafted free agent signings (Jalen Richard, Erik Harris, Seth Roberts, Antonio Hamilton, though he's not on the team anymore). He has had some terrific whiffs as well, but the bottom line is if Reggie is on his way out, you have to replace him with someone better. Someone better at cap management, someone better at talent evaluation, and someone better at organizational control and accountability.
A lot of rumors have Bruce Allen coming back to the Raiders, God I hope not, he is not better than Reggie at this. There is, however, one person I would like to see back with the Raiders in the GM capacity. A person who, not only knows this organization, but is loved by all the fans of this organization. The Princess of Darkness, AMY TRASK! Just my thoughts, and JUST WIN, BABY!
It is official, McKenzie is out. Mark told him he could finish out the season, but he declined to. Do they get a new GM, or does Gruden run the whole show? I think they get a new GM, I hope they bring Amy Trask back.
I have trouble believing Mark Davis is making any of these type decisions, i.e., from Mack to McKenzie. If you don't believe this is "The Gruden Show" as RT suggests, you're not paying attention, IMO.
Not sure what Gruden will ultimately bring but the last couple weeks have restored my hope. Two good games against playoff teams. Carr throwing downfield instead of the flat. Cook has been a monster. Raiders employed TEs this week just like so many teams have done to them in the past. That was refreshing.
IMO, Gruden needs a GM. He can't do it alone. It was too much for AL.
Chucky getting $100 million and 10 years means that this was a one-sided negotiation with Mark Davis in which Chucky had the leverage.
There is no way that he agrees to the job and attaches his legacy to it, only to cede the big football personnel decisions to Mark Davis (of all people). I'm sure Davis has a voice, but Chucky has the say. Mack, Cooper, Reggie, etc. = Gruden remaking the team in his image.
This is The Gruden Show. Buckle up.
Gruden said publicly he wasn't aware of McKenzie's firing. That's disingenuous at best. Gruden has played dumb on every major decision since he arrived. Is he coaching this football team or is he running for office?
If Raiders hire a GM, please, no Bruce Allen and no Amy Trask. Stop going back in time. Lets move forward for a change.
more laughs from the Take.
So, everything Gruden says is a lie, everything Mark says is a lie. Everything the media says is true and everything a player says, is true.
Mark the owner, cannot fire Reggie because it does not line up with Mark the weasel hanging on to Gruden's leg and humping it until Gruden says yes. Got it. Let the laughs continue, funny stuff.
Spin and hook
The belief options:
1. A lame-duck Reggie McKenzie was nevertheless given the authority to have final say over Jon Gruden on football personnel matters; curiously, he decided to dismantle his work and trade away two of his most successful picks. (in the wake of his inevitable firing, it would take several leaps of logic to believe any of this)
2. Jon Gruden had the leverage to secure a 10 year, $100 million contract but is somehow just fine with ceding major football personnel decisions to an unproven owner who already declared he knows what he doesn't know. And Mark Davis paid a guy $100 million to just coach and not run the show.
3. The Gruden Show.
Don't believe your lying eyes.
Gruden said initially that he wasn't aware of, nor involved in the Mack trade. Fact or fiction?
Gruden said he wasn't aware of the McKenzie firing. Fact or fiction?
McKenzie was untouchable until Gruden arrived.
I'll go out on a limb and suggest the chances of the Raiders (Gruden) bringing in a retread, e.g., Bruce Allen, to be GM are very high, ala retreads Tom Cable, Greg Olsen et al, not to mention all the vet retreads like Doug Martin.
Retreads have always been the Raiders' way. Now it's Gruden's way.
I'm going with #3, The Gruden Show!
Feliciano might be out for the season after suffering a calf injury late in the Steelers game, but he stayed in the game and finished, then had to be helped off the field. Feliciano would start for many teams that don't have Osemele, Hudson and Jackson on their roster. Hope the Raiders afford to bring him back next year as a backup.
NY and Take,
I do adhere to the Gruden show, knew it when he was hired that this first year wasn't going to be good if he did things the "Gruden way". I was hoping that Mark kept McKenzie to keep the reigns on Gruden from completely having his way.
When Mack was traded, I lost all hope that McKenzie had any control, and knew Gruden was going to destroy and rebuild from the ashes. I still don't think he is done destroying.
NY, I think Feliciano is going to stay. Gruden likes this guy, and with Osemele in and out of the line up, and currently he seems to be in the doghouse; I think Osemele will be shown the door this offseason. Why? For starters, Osemele is not a ZBS guy, he is a pure power block guy. He doesn't fit Gruden's system. Feliciano is a stud who can do both, and I think he will be given that chance next season.
The last straw that we will see about Gruden is whether or not he keeps Derek Carr. Derek has shown his worth this season, and has done amazing. Yes, he has made some mistakes, but who doesn't in this league? I love his leadership abilities, and think he will be a great QB in this league. Whether or not that happens with the Raiders, remains to be seen.
Right now, I hate the Gruden Show. For a guy who hasn't really proven anything in this league, I don't think he deserves the contract, or the complete control he has been given. I hate the fact that they made some progress and things were looking up, that we are back to square one. I hate the fact that after 15 years, we only have 1 winning season, and 3 non-losing records (2 years of 8-8). I hate the fact that we have brought guys like Olsen and Cable back to this team. I hate the fact that great players were let go without having a back up plan, or anyone to replace them. I feel we took a step forward, only to take 5 steps back. I blame Gruden for this too. But the bottom line is, I can't change that, and as a Raider fan, it is what I'm stuck with. So he has to prove his worth, or be shown the door that he has shown everyone else. So I'm sticking to the Raiders motto of Just Win, Baby! As well as the motto I made from their's: Just Prove It, Baby!
Wrong again, garbage breath.
McKenzie and Gruden were trying to work together, just like they say they were. It didn't work out, Reggie has a leak he is leaving and Mark says you are done, period. When Gruden says Mark fired Reggie, he isn't lying. Why would the Raiders be lying about it? To confuse you? Get over yourself.
Don't believe your lying take.
Bob and weave
Is it my imagination that most of McKenzie's drafted players, including his signature player... his legacy, were all being shown the door, but I'm to believe Gruden and McKenzie were somehow in lockstep early on? ...until it didn't work out.
And just to place a nice ribbon on all those good feelings, McKenzie will opt not to accept an offer to stay with the team for the remainder of the season but instead leave now.
Hey, I can only speculate but there's only so far my imagination can go.
It's "The Gruden Show" on full display!
Like I said above, I have a glimmer of hope after seeing the last couple games.
Gruden says he needs to let Carr be himself and trust his instincts. D'uh!
Gruden came to the Raiders and immediately tightened the noose on Carr... and probably the entire organization for that matter. It's only since he's loosened his grip that Carr has begun to respond.
Look for Gruden's press conf... in his words.
Believe what you want, I don't give a hoot. Mark is also involved, right? Or you don't believe that? You don't think Mark had anything to do with the Mack situation? Your view is so limited and your bulls-eye is on one guy as the problem. You ignore the team was a joke last year and the locker room a mess. You ignore anything that shows the opposite of your tirades against Gruden. You then go on as if you just discovered the "gruden show".....the laughs just keep coming, carry on.
I don't know what goes on inside. I don't have your crystal ball. Davis almost certainly would have had to acknowledge the move to trade Mack.
However, as RT stated, you don't give someone $100 million to run your team then make the decisions for them. That much seems abundantly clear. Mark Davis okaying the move is not the same as Mark Davis making the decision, so let's please not conflate the two.
Yes, the team was a joke last year, but I attribute that mostly to coaching. IMO, Todd Downing as OC was a joke on all of us. Letting Musgrave go and retaining Norton were two big mistakes that Del Rio made. Meanwhile, Del Rio wasn't the savior you thought he would be. Just another washed up HC who couldn't get the job done. I just hope we aren't saying that about Gruden in a few years.
In terms of the lockerroom, what do you consider to be a mess? That the players didn't want to fake it anymore that Downing and Del Rio knew what they were doing?
I concede it's usually not one extreme or the other. But in Gruden's case, just follow the money. That tells the whole story.
Cheers!
I haven't said that Gruden was wrong to remake the roster. Something needed to give based on Reggie's failure to build a great roster, but I am concerned that Gruden may have blown things up more than necessary. But it's his show and we'll just have to see.
The record show's that I wasn't thrilled with Reggie's work long before Gruden showed up. Turns out Gruden wasn't too thrilled with it either.
So here we are: The Gruden Show.
Honestly, I can't believe there's any question about who's making the decisions. The honeymoon isn't even over yet.
I would guess the reason Gruden was brought to Oakland had as much to do with McKenzie not getting it done as it did Del Rio. Sure they tried to work together because McKenzie was still under contract, but it didn't even last the season.
To be sure, $100 million 10-year contract equals turn-key.
2019 Salary cap to go to approx. $190 million. That's $12.8 million increase in one year... dare I say enough to cover Mack's entire salary increase.
Bottom line, none of us know what is going on inside.....Mark hired Gruden to make the team a winner, duhhhh. Reggie probably knew his days were numbered right there. Reggie didn't want to take a back seat, so he left. Reggie built a decent team from nothing, that went to the playoffs, problem was, JDR was the HC and he wasn't good enough. JDR lost the team and it blew itself up. Gruden came in knowing the locker room wasn't the best and tried to figure out as soon as he could why. He found a mess that couldn't be cleaned up. So, he torched it. If you think Mack wanted to stay, you wrong, just as Coop wanted out, it was toxic. Gruden walked into Mark feuding with agent and Gruden said TORCH IT. That's it, everyone knew that a 10 mill 10 yr contract was sayin Gru is the boss of the team, Mark is still the boss of the org. Nothing else needs to be written, it's done, it's over and now wait on the draft.
Bitch slap
For the last time, Mark Davis, the owner, gave the final go ahead to trade Mack & Cooper.
Why? Because he didn't want to pay them.
Reggie/Gruden may control draft picks but Mark Davis controls his money. PERIOD!!!!!!
Even to sign a free agent, Mark Davis must approve the amount of contract.
If anyone on this site believes M. Davis is handing anyone a blank check book to spend and spend and spend without limits, they are foolish.
Once again, no matter what Reggie/Gruden recommended regarding the Mack situation. The owner, Mark Davis can say thumbs up or down to it. He controls his money. End of story.
THE MARK DAVIS SHOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
00-
That's semantics. Of course Mark Davis had a say but he's not the brains behind these moves. Not saying you went this far but please don't suggest that Davis hired Gruden for $100mm to coach the team and then stripped the roster of his two biggest stars just to save money. (Although, Guenther got burned that way.)
In terms of money, this isn't MLB. The NFL has a salary cap and a salary minimum, which is about 90% of the cap. All teams must spend the money... so trading players isn't an escape from spending.
I noted above that the salary cap is going up next year by about $12+ million. It's worth recognizing too that Raiders' player contracts will be more valuable starting 2020 because there's no income tax in NV. Even if the team and players split that savings, it's worth millions.
The Gruden Show! The _____________ show on earth. You fill in the blank.
NYR....you portray Mark Davis as an empty mind, staring into space while Gruden decides to spend, or not spend his money. the picture you paint is truly unbelievable. If Mark Davis had a say, that say could have been NO!. Get Mack signed, whatever it takes.
But instead, M. Davis said YES! Trade Mack away. As I've said all along, the owner, M. Davis had the final word on the Mack contract matter. if Davis did not agree to the resolution proposed to him by his 'football people", the outcome would have been very different.
You want to know about power? Guess what? When Gruden is gone, the Gruden show is over. But the Mark Davis show goes on and on and on. That's power.
BTW, baseball in effect, does have a salary cap as if you go over a certain limit, the organization is hit with a huge luxury tax. Most teams, except for a hand full of wildly wealthy teams, stay under the limit to avoid the tax.
"Reggie didn't want to take a back seat, so he left." Wrong, Reggie was fired. He didn't leave, he was fired.
Davis pulled the plug, but it was at the recommendation of Gruden. Just like Mack and Cooper were at the recommendation of Gruden, who is on record as saying that what the Raiders initially offered Mack was too much for a Defensive End.
00, as far as Mark being an empty mind, I don't think he is, but I take him at his word when he said that Reggie and Gruden have his full trust when it comes to roster moves and "football decisions" and that he was going to focus on "stadium and League issues." So when Gruden comes in and tells him, "I don't want to pay Mack that much, he isn't negotiating with us, let's trade him." Mark listens. Same with Cooper.
Now the City of Oakland has filed an Anti-Trust suit against the Raiders, the NFL, and all the individual teams in the NFL benefiting from the relocation fee. It's interesting that the City is not fighting for the team to remain in Oakland, but looking for $$. This is the reason they lost the Raiders in the first place, after rejecting 4 Stadium offers given by the Raiders that were similar to what the A's proposed recently. The only difference is the Raiders' deal were privately funded and they were looking for certain tax breaks to make it happen. The A's are paying the city some money to make it happen. Why? Because they have gained extra revenue from the Luxury Taxes on salary cap. The City was never about keeping the Raiders, but wanting $$, and it clearly shows in the lawsuit they filed. They deserved to lose the Raiders.
Who is suggesting Mark was trying to save money? See how disingenuous you are? Obviously, Mark had a problem with Mack's numbers and agent. Obviously Mark didn't want to pay it for whatever reasons, it wasn't to "save money". SMH.
And the 'gruden show' is very lame, but was else is new for the amigo's on this site.
NYR is shown to be full of shit once again, the resident troll (nyr) is failing badly.
Stay off the ropes
Nate, Mark said Reggie could stay on until the end of the season, so Reg said no AND LEFT.
Mark had a problem with Mack's agent who was the same agent for Coop.
As usual, the Amigo's have their own reality.
Stiff Jab
00-
How many times did you post the Mark Davis mantra, "I know what I don't know." Now he's the brains behind these decisions?
Which is it?
Again, this is largely semantics regarding who made the decision and who approved it.
Davis is the owner and of course has final say. But the Gruden honeymoon is far from over.
The Gruden Show! Stay tuned!
NYR...I take Mark Davis at his word that he knows nothing about football. I am not a football expert, but I know Mack was the best defensive player the Raiders have drafted since Howie Long.
I just find it hard to believe that if Mark Davis wanted to pay Mack, Gruden would stand in the way. Gruden is here to win football games. He must realize having Mack makes that task much easier.
And if Mack got paid, the money wasn't coming out of Grudens pocket. The money was Mark Davis' to spend.
Again, when it comes to their money, no owner in any sport is out of the loop.
I never said Davis wasn't in the loop. You're trying too hard to figure this out. I agree that if Davis put up a resistance to trading Mack, we might still have Mack. But Davis put ALL his trust in Gruden. That's why McKenzie became expendable.
It's The Gruden Show!
WRT Mack, I think Gruden over shot that one and he got a little egg on his face... but it's nothing a couple smart draft choices can't fix.
The Raiders future depends on it.
Needless to say, the Raiders will have insane cap space next year. Everyone is (or will be) gone except for Carr and maybe a few others.
Raiders will have to spend, by rule, like $170M or more.
My guess is they might get reckless with overpaying free agents, because they can. Maybe some think that's a good thing. I don't know.
"Nate, Mark said Reggie could stay on until the end of the season, so Reg said no AND LEFT."
Would you stay? I wouldn't. I'd take the firing package, make them pay me and look for another post. If they didn't want me around after the year, why stay for the rest of the season? What would be my job description? It definitely wasn't going to be the same that I was doing. Gruden likes Shaun Herock who is serving as interim. He may be our next GM.
Ratto wrote this article in CSNBay Area about Gruden having the final say on personnel decisions:
https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/raiders/failure-keep-khalil-mack-falls-jon-gruden
Vic Tafur wrote "in the aftermath of McKenzie’s firing that the GM was against trading his star linebacker for a package centered on two first-round draft picks. However, the deal was part of the reason for his dismissal in what seems like revisionist history."
CSN Bay Area reported on their site about it that: "According to Tafur, Jon Gruden and owner Mark Davis didn’t believe McKenzie pulled enough of a return from the Bears, who demanded a 2020 second-round pick from Oakland, too, when they realized the Raiders’ desperation to move Mack.
The Jets and the 49ers were among the other teams involved in Mack trade talks. The Jets reportedly offered a 2019 first-round and a 2020 second-rounder, and were willing to go higher. 49ers GM John Lynch and coach Kyle Shanahan both have said the team made an aggressive offer for Mack, although the exact package hasn’t been reported.
In the end, it seems silly to blame McKenzie for one simple fact: Gruden supposedly has final say in all personnel decisions. So, instead of green-lighting the Mack trade, Gruden could have just objected to it and told McKenzie to go for more."
I trust Vic Tafur, he has a good standing with the Raiders, and has written fairly about the Raiders and their front office, even toward the end of Al's time. Even Mark Davis said it was hard to fire "Unselfish Reggie". The dude did a lot for the Raiders since 2012. Some good, some bad, but he did an excellent job with what he had. To do what Mark Davis and Gruden did to him this year, I don't blame him for not staying. I have nothing but best wishes for him, and hope he succeeds wherever he goes next, unless its the Chargers, Chiefs, or Doncos.
Mark Davis quoted today in The Athletic:
"It was hard for me to trade Amari Cooper. I empower people to do their jobs so that’s the general manager and head coach. I’ll butt in and play devil’s advocate, but they have the final say on that stuff. I’ve always said that the only thing I know is what I don’t know and I hire people that know that.”
No way to spin that.
No, no way to spin it. Proves my point all along. Bad ownership dooming the Raiders.
He doesn't know Mack was best defensive player drafted since Howie Long? This means Mark Davis was not even remotely a fan of the Raiders all the years prior to him becoming owner.
Raiders will not win until M. Davis sells team, and that day can't come soon enough.
Mark has been a bad owner since day 1. I think he is trying to put something together to sell the team. I hope so.
Also, part of the Oakland lawsuit against the Raiders is trying to force the Raiders to give up the name so the City can keep it in Oakland. Just a joke! They want nothing but the money. They don't want the Raiders to stay, rejected 3 deals for the Raiders to build new stadiums for themselves and the A's, yet the A's offered a similar deal recently that the city/county accepted. The only difference is that the A's has money from MLB to offer that sweetens the deal for the city/county; something the NFL refused to give to the Raiders (even though they gave it to Minnesota, Dallas, and San Fransico for their stadiums).
I think the city/county have more of a case against the NFL than they do the Raiders, for not operating in good faith. The Raiders have a great case against the city/county for not operating in good faith with them. All they have to do is point out the similarities between what they offered in a new stadium package, and what the city/county just approved for the A's. Jerry McDonald wrote on Twitter how the A's were part of the reason the Raiders couldn't succeed in Oakland, and Amy Trask took him to the woodshed on the fact that the A's were more than willing to work with the Raiders on building a new stadium when she was there. It was funny to read.
00- your point was also that Mark Davis was making the final decisions. Clearly, by his own admission, it doesn't appear that he is.
You don't have to be a good owner to be successful. I'm sure there's plenty of proof of that around the NFL. You just need to surround yourself with people that can get it done.
The jury is still out for the Raiders.
And it all goes back to the Man who used to own the Raiders. Because of the unique situation created by Mr Davis, his son was left with an org the world had never seen before. No 'good people' would or could be hired because of the situation. Here we are, some 7 yrs later and Mark had to throw record amounts of money at a guy who hadn't been a HC for 10 yrs. The team in legal turmoil and without a home to play in is part of the legacy left by the past owner. Mark was thrown into a real lousy situation, he has done a decent job trying to rebuild the org...the hole was deep and still in it.
When it came to paying Mack and dealing with his agent, yes Mark had a final say in it.When Mark decides the GM has to go, he makes the move. Making roster moves, no say in it.
Haymaker
Strangely, big AL never groomed Mark to be in the position to ultimately and inevitably take over. 7-8 years ago we talked a lot about AL not having any contingency plan.
I thought MD's decision to hire McKenzie was a good choice, and he did a great job with the salary cap, not to mention the 2014 draft. But when you peel away those layers and look at the rest, it gets ugly.
And then here we are... rock bottom with a new savior.... we hope!
2020 NFL draft in Vegas. That's pretty cool. It could be an exciting time.
But it's not 'rock bottom'. Dennis Allen and no draft picks with no assets was rock bottom. The org had nothing to stand on, nobody worth a wooden nickel wanted anything to do with the Raiders. City of Oakland wanted them out of town. Step by step the team had to be brought back to respectability, Reg and JDR had the team in a good place in 2016, but it could not be maintained for numerous reasons. Mark found them a new home and a new stadium.....you laughed at me when I said the org wasn't back from the Mr Davis scorching of the org. and that was a few years ago. Now we see it still hasn't fully recovered and Gruden has a lot riding on his shoulders. It's a rough situation and hopefully Gruden can get them back to the top.
Hammerin Hank
Mark Davis says he has hired others to make final football decisions.
Then who fired Reggie? Was it Gruden, or did Reggie fire himself.
I guess Gruden will hire the next GM, work out all the contract details, and maybe inform the "owner" about it some time later.
If the time comes to fire Gruden, who will do it? Maybe Gruden must fire himself.
And what if the new GM must be let go. It looks like he will be fired by the HC, or perhaps, yes, he will fire himself.
Wow, I've never seen a professional sports team run quite this way. The owner is like Peter Sellers in "Being There". Ya think the Raiders are in a little bit of trouble here?
Mark has gone 'all in' with Gruden, if Gruden doesn't wash, it would be in everyone's best interest that he sold the team and the Raiders of Oakland will be a distant memory in a short time. A team that will never be around again, gone are the renegades, a team that could thumb it's nose at the league and laugh about it and still win. A team that will become just another cut and paste nfl team with no 'mystique' at all. Gruden is the only thing holding the past and the Raiders together. If you are a Raider fan, especially an Oakland Raider fan who wants to continue being a Vegas Raider (throat puke), Gruden is the only link that will keep it going. Mark may realize that he really doesn't know....what it takes to own an nfl team.
Be 1st
00-
You're chasing your tail.
Yes, it's safe to assume Gruden will have to fire himself if it comes down to that. McKenzie deserved to be fired with Del Rio but wasn't.
00 is right, NY is wrong. Amari is on record today saying it was Mark who made the trade not Gruden.
NYR....Chasing my tail? Just following Mark Davis' logic. Yes, it will lead you to go in circles.
So you believe, since Mark Davis makes no final decisions, that the HC, Gruden, fired the GM, Reggie.
Isn't it the other way around in all other organizations?
Round and round we go.
Seeing as nyr is getting pummeled, I will add that in the past, nyr always would say it was MARK who hired JDR. His proof was Mark flying to see JDR and then hiring him.....but now, nyr contends that Mark only signs checks....exactly, been saying it for years with this guy = round and round you go....troll on.
Roundhouse right
"Ex-Oakland wideout Amari Cooper revealed to The Athletic's Calvin Watkins on Thursday that it was Raiders owner Mark Davis, not Gruden, who wanted to trade him. Per Watkins, teams offered Oakland 2020 first-round picks, but a deal was not made until the Dallas Cowboys put their 2019 first-rounder on the table."
And this lines up with Mark not wanting anything to do with the agent both MACK and Coop have. Shaaazam, nyr caught lying again....smh.
So you guys think that Mark Davis has gone rogue and is now shaping the roster for his $100M head coach?
First, I never said Davis doesn't have a say or is not directly involved in the actions taken, just that he's not making these decisions. I stand by it based on the words from Davis himself.
For your edification:
"I empower people to do their jobs so that’s the general manager and head coach. I’ll butt in and play devil’s advocate, but they have the final say on that stuff. I’ve always said that the only thing I know is what I don’t know and I hire people that know that.”
Two things can be true: Davis made the trade... at the behest of his HC.
Now if after the Mack fiasco Davis had such contempt for Segal that he forced Segal's other client, Cooper, off the team, that's a little twisted but I guess it's possible. In that case, he probably asked Gruden for permission.
What is it about Mark's statement that you guys don't get? He's not making football decisions. He leaves that to Gruden and..., well, Gruden. Mckenzie was expendable because of Gruden.
All football decisions have been consolidated and now funnel to Gruden. That's what the man said.
You can all take a breath now....
Lol, nyr, how many quotes from Reggie, Gruden etc have you dismissed because you didn't believe them? Now you want to cherry pick a M.Davis quote to 'stand by'.
You stand by the line of Mack wanting to sign and Gruden refusing him and Mark going along reluctantly. You stand by the scenario that Reg had nothing to do with the Mack trade. BUT, Reg then gets blamed for the 2nd and 3rd rd swap with the Bears. You blame Gruden for everything even though Cooper himself says it was Mark. So I guess you are calling Cooper a liar now? Which is it? Round and round you go, like I have written before, you act...as if you know, but in REALITY, you are clueless.
Body snatcher
Jerry McDonald
✔
@Jerrymcd
Mark Davis gradually assumed more control of the football operation after taking over. Reggie hired Dennis Allen, but Davis fired Allen, made the call on Del Rio, signed Lynch, hired Gruden. Rest assured he's running everything past Gruden. But he's the boss. That's how it works.
It's the MARK DAVIS SHOW...starring J Gruden as HC.
"You can all take a breath now...."
And you can take a seat with your dunce hat on....now.
So Mark Davis is the liar?
Your problem is you can't believe two things can exist at the same time. You're suffering from a bad case of tunnel vision.
Let logic be your friend.
When you pay a head coach Bill Belichick money, you don't make personnel decisions for him. The Mark Davis/Gruden relationship isn't even one season in and you think the honeymoon is over, like Gruden is suddenly Denis Allen or a washed up Del Rio.
Please!
I conceded Davis might have been pissed off enough at Segal over the Mack fiasco to want to move Cooper, but be sure he didn't do that without Gruden giving it the nod. Hell, the deal was too good not to take! Both parties benefited because Cooper is better on turf with a QB who actually throws him the ball. For half this season Gruden was calling plays around the LOS while Cooper was running down field as a decoy. That sucked!
Now that Gruden has given Carr permission to throw past the LOS, Cooper is gone.
So you are saying that Mark Davis answers to Jon Gruden? Face it, you are way off again, in your fairy tales. Maybe you should write children books? Seems you are really good at making up stories. Some things never change....let the laughs continue......bring in the clowns.....too funny.
Liver shot
Case study in Salary Cap.
I read the Broncos are projected to have $46M in cap space next season despite the following contract commitments (all figures are rounded down)
Von Miller - $25M
Case Keenum - $21M
Emmanuel Sanders - $10M
Derek Wolfe - $10.9M
Ronald Leary - $9M
Brandon Marshall - $9M
Chris Harris - $8.7M
Darian Stewart - $4.75M
Todd Davis - $5M
It's really quite amazing that the Broncos can some how pull this off and still have almost $50M in cap space, but the Raiders couldn't afford Khalil Mack with only Carr's contract to navigate around.
As it stands, Raiders are projected to have over $83M in cap space, before more house cleaning takes place... which you know it will.
Just saying.
Sure money was an issue, but affordability was not. All teams spend at or near the cap. It's mandated in the CBA.
So, Mr Genius, why is it you cannot put the pieces together? Mark made a fair offer to Mack, Mack's agent wants to wait to see how much Mack will make after Donald signs. Mack puts the gun to Mark's head and says pay me or I don't show. Mark does not want to be strong armed so he says Mack has to go. Coop has same agent and Coop was ready to re-sign. Mark says NOPE and Coop is traded to Mark's good buddy Jarray in Texas. Gruden says to self "ok, we are burning it to the ground and starting over"......just sayin.
Notice you totally ignore statements that you cannot refute = troll = you have been shot down in flames = you need to change the subject = you are a person of low character.
Bleeding Kidneys
I never said anything about negotiations nor intent. The only reference I made above is that the Raiders could have afforded Mack, with cap room. I was told otherwise here.
What valid and worthwhile point did you make that I didn't comment on?
Why don't you put the strawman away and make a football observation. You're trying so hard to discredit me you forgot to make a point.
The point is and always has been = that you are full of shit. You write as if you an authority on the subject, it's all written prior, plain as day.
Are you really this disingenuous, or are ya just stupid? You said all of the Mack trade lays at Gruden's feet. You said it was Gruden who forced Mack out, remember? Or are ya just plain stupid? Anyways, been there, done that. You are so funny and you don't even know it.....stupid is what stupid does = nyr.
Flurry of Feints
Jones, maybe you should look in the mirror on who thinks he's the authority. My god, some of the stuff you come up with, you'd think you were reporting from Raiders HQ.
I've said over and over that I only state my opinion. I have no inside knowledge of the Raiders inner workings. News flash, neither do you. So relax.
I enjoy the debate, and have no problem with differing opinions. Makes it more interesting. You seem to only come here when there's a fight to be had. Everything has to be a battle with you.
If you don't believe Gruden is in charge of the Raiders roster, top to bottom, stick with that. Whatever works for you.
I don't mind the debate but you're not happy unless everyone agrees with you. Sorry to disappoint you.
Here you go, Jones.
This article speaks to the Davis or Gruden issue, without all the hyperbole and insults. But it still doesn't answer the question, and neither can anyone here definitively. Which makes it even more puzzling why you allow it to upset you to the point of rage.
Take the quiz at the bottom. You will surely gloat to find out most people believe decisions were made based on Mark Davis's financial inclination.
Nonetheless, I stand behind the notion that all personnel moves were approved by Gruden. He's the personnel guy. With McKenzie out, that much is certain. It also jives with what Davis stated.
Enjoy it.
https://www.silverandblackpride.com/2018/12/15/18142498/is-owner-mark-davis-the-one-really-behind-the-current-state-of-the-raiders
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