Vikings Gameday Thread
Will the real Raiders please stand up!? Let's see what they are made of today. GO RAIDERS!
posted by Raider Take at 10:07 AM
Sunday, September 22, 2019
DEFENDING THE NATION!
- Subscribe to Raider Take
- GOOGLE ADS
A Must Read
33 Comments:
THE RAIDERS SUCK
That looks like a painful score. Just got in from a weekend camping trip where my son and I did some repelling down a cliff with a group of friends. Good times, 'til I got home and looked at the score. Will have to watch later, going to bed.
I think the real Raiders did stand up...for the national anthem...and then they lay back down again to let the opponent trample over them.
These are the real Raiders.
Proof that the Raiders were not ready for a diva WR. Character is too important right now. Raiders will need plenty of it in order to hoist themselves off the ground and be competitive again.
Today was an extension of last week, only worse.
WRs as a group are awful.
Darren Waller is unstoppable. As long as Carr throws to Waller, the Raiders can move the chains. Each game it takes Gruden a couple quarters to figure that out. Here's an idea, start the game throwing to Waller and don't stop until they figure out how to stop Waller.
The defense is a mess too.
Disappointing because the first game looked so good. Now back to their old tricks...?
Honestly, it was always unlikely the Raiders would beat KC or Vikes but both these games were thrashings. Chiefs only needed one quarter, and the Vikings could not have been more relaxed on the sideline, as they pulled starters out of the game in the 2nd half.
The Raiders are in the bottom third of the NFL. They are improved from last year. Waller and Jacobs look like studs and the line is better. Though Kolton looked like 1st year Kolton today which is scary.
The D has a long way to go. Who would have thought that the LBs would be the best part of the D so far.
Carr is what he is. If the NFL has 4 tiers of QBs Carr is firmly in the second tier from the top. Given him protection and good WR he is great. Ask him to improvise, deal with pressure come off his 1st read forgot it he is less than mediocre in that situation.
I do not blame the coaching. A 10 am pst start on turf against a top 5 D and top 5 running game this is the Raiders kryptonite. Which is what they will face next week in Indy. The only games I see them even having a a chance at till week 9 when they return home is Chicago cause of Turbitsky and mediocre Greenbay team. Let's face it they may not be favored again in a game until Cinci in week 11.
NY, Waller picked up most of those yards in garbage time when the Vikings were playing a soft zone so don't criticize Gruden for not going to him early. When you get down 14-0 on the road the offensive game plan goes out the window on a team like the Raiders.
Next year's draft and FA needs to be D-line, WR and DB again.
Regards
Sandy
Sandy,
IMO, there's no excuse to wait until the 2nd or 3rd quarter to target Waller, especially when the WRs can't get open and Jacobs is injured.
Early in last week's game Gruden was calling plays for Carrier while Waller was blocking at the LOS. We saw Carrier let a critical 3rd down pass go right thru his hands.
So it's more than Carr not being able to find Waller open.
Re: Carr, he's devolved into the QB he is today. He used to be far better under pressure (see 2016). Wonder how much patience Gruden will have with him.
Are you already writing off the Colts game based on time zone? Remember, the "home" game against Chicago is in London... where the Raiders have been terrible!
Sandy,
the Raiders play the Bears in London, that is far from a home game. The Raiders won't be at home again until Nov 11th against the Lions.
The O-line is playing better this year, and Carr is putting up the numbers again (27-34, 242 yards, 2 TD, 1 INT, 103 passer rating); but there is no explosiveness in the Raiders offense like there was in 2016. Something is missing, and I'm not sure what it is. A lot of 3 and outs do not help the defense either.
We are seeing the same picture of what we saw last season under Gruden. Not a lot of explosive play-calling, not a lot of freedom for DC, sub-par defensive play with no sacks or Tackles for Loss, PJ Hall, Hankins, and Key got a QB Hit/Pressure in the game (a total of 3), and Gruden and DC talking in the press after the game about how "close" they are to making this work. Trent Brown only played 85% of the snaps, the Raiders gave up 4 sacks, and 5 QB hits/pressures. I wonder how many of those came with Brandon Parker in the game?
I am putting blame on both the coaches and players. They talk a big talk, and they talk about how AB did not affect them at all, but they have not been the same since he left. Remember Gruden saying that they are going to be explosive and put up a lot of points? When? At this point, I see us actually digressing to 3-4 wins the way we are playing right now. We had 4 wins last season, we may not reach that goal this season. This is why I wanted DK Metcalf, Hollywood Brown, or another WR in the first round of the draft. I was excited to have AB, but he put a show on, and wasn't happy with the Raiders for whatever reason and wanted out. I think he's crazy, and needs mental help. But that's beside the point, we went out to get him, and didn't add any quality depth to this spot, and it's like the Raiders have given up. Going to be a long season, again. Hanging my head in shame at this point.
Yeah, pretty sad, and depressing when after 3 games, we're already talking about the draft. Another top 5 pick in our future no doubt.
Can't wait til they take this stinker of a show to Vegas. It will be another Mark Davis flop.
WOE is me...and WOE is Mark Davis...Worst Owner Ever !! Raiders will never win until he sells the team, and that can't come soon enough!!!
NY, Nate,
Of course I know its in London. The fact it is on grass and Chicago's offense/QB is horrible therefore I give the Raiders a chance.
NY, yes I am writing off the Colt game. Hopefully I am wrong but the Colts D and run game, on turf, early start is essentially a repeat of the Vikings.
Regards
Sandy
What difference that Tribisky is bad. Cousins is bad too. No problem, just pound ball on ground, right at Raiders defense, and Raiders will find a way to lose.
Andrew luck retires. No problem, just bring in the backup to wipe the floors with the Raiders.
London, U.S., out in the desert, Raiders are a bunch of quitters, and losers, that can stink up a stadium anywhere in the world.
Mark Davis knows what he doesn't know. His one big idea was to lure Gruden out of retirement, for 10 yrs, $100 mil. Well it aint working. And I doubt M. Davis has any more bright ideas to fall back on.
WOE, is Mark Davis.....WORST OWNER EVER!!!!!
No question, $100M is ridiculous but I'm not sure I blame Mark Davis for trying to make a go at it with Gruden after Del Rio did a face plant. Chucky had become the face of the org before AL traded him to Tampa (presumably, that's why he traded him).
However, I have noticed that Gruden has become uncharacteristically subdued in his pressers. He's already dragging out excuses like, "we're a young team." Hope he's not throwing in the towel already for 2019.
He mentioned injuries to LBs but remember he only carried four LBs on the roster. At one point he also had four QBs. I assume somebody is calling Brandon Marshall this week. Right?
Sandy, I'm disappointed that you expect the Colts to do a Vikings repeat on the Raiders. Who's the pessimist now? It's time for the Raiders to step up to the challenge and play competitive football. Anything less is unacceptable.
I agree with Sandy, the Colts will roll the Raiders in Indy. the Raiders played dumb against the Chefs, and they didn't play hard against the Vikes.
There's an old saying, "You get out, what you put in". The Raiders put in no effort, so they get blown out.
Lets swing around the league from last Sunday. Steelers with backup Qb, almost beat SF on road. Bengals went to Buffalo, played hard, almost beat the Bills. Lions went to Philly and beat the Eagles. Panthers with backup Qb won on the road. Giants with rookie Qb won on the road. Saints with backup Qb, won on the road.
The Raiders?? their game was over at halftime. They played dumb, lackluster football, and quit as usual.
The other games I mentioned, the teams played smart, they played hard, they put in effort. They all didn't win, but at least they could hold their heads high. At least they gave it their all, and left everything on the field.
Meanwhile, the Raiders owner tells everyone, "I know what I don't know" What a dope!!
Hey Mark Davis wake up. You sign the paychecks, and you should demand respect, and high performance week in and week out from all players that wears the silver & black. Your father did.
You should tell those Db's that get burned every game, if they don't want to start driving a cab for a living, they better pick it up, and improve.
Ask the offense why they looked so damn afraid when they go on the road. Why do they play scared. What are they afraid of ? You are the owner, it's ok to be a pain in the ass when your team stinks so bad every week.
Tell the D-line that can't buy a sack, they are on borrowed time if things don't get better. In other words DO SOMETHING...SAY SOMETHING...BE THE OWNER...SHAKE THINGS UP!!!!
Tell these bums to stop embarrassing the great tradition of the Raiders. Act like you care.
Tell them you are the owner, and you care about the Raiders, and the fans care about the Raiders, so you expect each and every member of your organization to care. So if they can't play smart, hard nosed football for 60 minutes, 16 times a year...show them the door!!!!!!!!!
I hear your frustration 00 but don't forget Gruden, not Davis (your boy who knows what he doesn't know), completely dismantled the team a year ago. Aside from coming into this season with a few of the same faces (mostly rookies from last year), Raiders lack continuity that other teams possess.
Gruden wants us to know this is a young team, and he might be happy to ride that excuse into another season of failures.
Perhaps telling, we just signed a rookie 7th round draft pick LB off he Rams practice squad instead of bringing back Brandon Marshall. So we are getting younger and less experienced by the day.
As I said before, the Raiders got ahead of their skis by trading for Antonio Brown... apparently, they thought they were more ready than they are. Now that Brown jumped the sharked, reality has set in...
Raiders are in a rebuild.
It could still get worse before it gets better.
Too much of the season ahead to make any predictions.
"jump the shark"
NYR...I'm not giving Gruden a pass. So far, he's been terrible, and the team doesn't seem to be playing hard for him. They are not knocking on wood, and are not with him.
Just because Raiders are in a rebuild, doesn't mean their games should be over by halftime.
I sited all the other games from last Sunday, where rebuilding teams showed great effort, pride, and hustle. Some won, some lost.
Effort, pride, hustle. Three things we hardly ever see from the Raiders.
All the more reason Mack should still be a Raider. There's no quit in Mack. Key has been a big disappointment and Ferrell, well, what's he done?
Colts game is a huge gut check for the Raiders.
00 back off from the ledge. After a few days to calm down. I am looking at this a little more pragmatically. NY, thanks for checking my negativity re Colts but let me know when the expiry date is for you on pinning for Mack.
Here is where I am at. The Raiders won the game they should have and lost the two they should have. The problem as 00 pointed out is that it looked a lot like the 2018/2017 Raiders when they lost. Terrible defense, and a one dimensional offense that can't get the ball down the field or move it consistently when it counts.
I am okay with Gruden because he has espoused a plan and it seems to be taking shape. He wants to build a team that is big in the trenches and can run hard. Check on both of those. When the O line is healthy I can easily see Jaocbs pounding the rock behind them. What is missing is speed and talent at WR.
On defense yeah Key looks useless but he is a third round pick. Ferrell looks like a keeper but we need to give him a season or so to properly judge. Abram seems like he will be more than solid and a possible leader.
Basically there are something like 6 guys left from the McKenzie era so it will take awhile till talent is in place and there is any real depth. The problem is when the PJ Halls turn out to be mediocre it really slows the rebuild.
I am worried about one thing right now. Is Carr the answer? After 6 years I am starting to think he can be a playoff QB if surrounded by great talent but will never be in the top tier.
Sandy
Sandy,
I still believe in Carr. I recently watched a 2016 video of him, and am wondering if Gruden is going to let Carr play this way again? Carr wasn't reckless, but he was more fluid in the pocket and unafraid. The last 2 years, and the first 3 games this season, he seems more ginger in the pocket, and it seems like Gruden wants him to take his licks and make the play (Gannon did this, and only ran sparingly). Gruden doesn't like a lot of flash from the QB spot; but when Carr flashed in 2016, it sparked the Raiders offense. I'm waiting for that Carr to show up again.
A lot of underground rumblings and speculation from fan-base that Gruden is not happy with Carr, and that he is wading through this season to cut him. I'm not sure I believe this. Carr, Gruden, and Mayock are the hardest working people in the Raiders' building right now. Nobody puts in more work as a player than Carr does. I think Gruden is trying to help him develop more under pocket pressure. His brother David has scared the bejeezus out of him when it comes to getting hit; and you look at the film, DC is staying in the pocket more, but is quite clearly getting jittery feet and wants to run. That tells me it is more coaching than instinct. Because in 2016 and prior, he would have took off! If Gruden decides to part with Carr after this season, I can guarantee he will go to Chicago and Chicago will be a Super Bowl team for years! Raiders would be stupid to do it. I think Gruden needs to let Carr play to his comfortability, and let him grow in the pocket by putting minimal standards at first, and grow the challenges as the season grows.
Again, my biggest problem with Gruden is 2 things: #1-He is a system guy. He likes things his way, and cannot coach to the strength of the players. If he doesn't have a cast that understands his philosophy, it is a losing cause. But when he has all cylinders firing the way he likes, it can be a championship caliber team. Right now, he doesn't have that and he doesn't know how to adjust to create a winner with what he has.
#2-He is more of a celebrity now than he is a coach. He still is more concerned about his celebrity status than he is coaching to the strengths of his team. Until he can put that aside, Raiders are not going to win much. I am hopeful that Mayock can help him with that. So I am not in total despair at this point, but I have no confidence in Gruden as a coach, or Mark Davis as an owner.
On Del Rio, I wish he would have kept Musgrave as OC and dumped Norton Jr. That didn't happen, and we know the results. Also, the USC season is interesting to me. Coach Helton is under a lot of fire, and rightfully so. If he is let go at the end of this season, I can see Del Rio being the Head Coach of USC and doing a damn good job at it too. Plus, it would get SC away from the "Pete Carroll" coaching tree, which needs to happen. I can also see Hue Jackson as Head Coach of USC and do well.
Michael Crabtree has been cut by the Cardinals. I'd love to see King Crabs come back to the Silver & Black right now. He has familiarity with Carr, and we desperately need a WR; and he would be able to stretch the field and help teach the younger WRs about how to get separation. I'd cut Trevor Davis to make it happen too, since we already cut Grant to make room for LB Justin Phillips. But Carr needs a weapon he is familiar with right now, and one that has some explosiveness; so why not Crabtree?
NYR...Sure it would have been ideal to keep Mack and build a defense around him. But that didn't happen. Even with Mack, the Raiders avg. maybe 6 wins. he had no help.
Sandy...I am not on the ledge, Raiders season is. Just tired of Seasons being over within 5 weeks, and games being over at halftime. Perhaps I sound urgent. I wish Mark Davis would sound urgent.
Dennis Allen rebuild. JDR rebuild. Gruden rebuild. When will Raiders finally be rebuilt? As I sited earlier, other teams making progress, Raiders show no progress.
Nate...I doubt Crabtree can stretch the field at this point in his career, but he might be helpful in the redzone, when Raiders are scoring their meaningless, garbage time, TD at end of game.
00, I feel you. Basically the Raiders have been rebuilding since 2012 with one magic season that ended in disaster. I am glad you brought up Dennis Allen because though the results are not there yet the team feels better.
My prescription for a rebuild is you need a total star at each level. Let's review on offense: Trent Brown, Waller, Jacobs. They need a WR and have my doubts about Carr. Defense, you stud in the secondary in Abram, Ferrell on the d line to be seen and LB no one. So they need 3 -4 more impact players to end the rebuild.
Nate, go review Carr's first interception when he threw high to Foster Moreua. There was no pressure, he panicked did not come off his first read he had Waller open on the other side of the formation, did not set his feet and threw high. It was horrendous and all on Carr nothing to do with coaching. I love Carr but if he is still making plays like that in year 6 sorry he is not the one.
I agree with 00 Crabtree is on his last legs up at this stage and has never been fast he is a possession receiver. That being said he would be a better stopgap than anyone else on the roster.
See below my name from an analysis in The Athletic, they have a video of the int too bad I can not link it because I think you would agree Carr was awful.
Sandy
Derek Carr’s downtick in downfield throws
Every once in a while, Derek Carr throws the type of “what the heck?” pass that’s ugly enough to make Jon Gruden scowl on the Raiders sideline. This happened in the blowout loss at Minnesota Sunday and essentially sealed the Raiders’ fate, as they were already down 14-0 and deep in their own territory at the time:
An overthrown interception while a quarterback is under duress is one thing. A pick that comes from a clean pocket suggests that an entirely different problem is at play, especially when a QB’s mechanics aren’t in line on the throw.
That happened here to Carr, as he rushed a release off his back foot even though he had plenty of time to plant and deliver an easy and accurate pass. It’s fair to wonder about Carr’s confidence when throws like this start popping up — and especially when such skittish moments are paired with a downtick in the average length of his throws downfield:
Derek Carr Avg. CAY Avg. IAY
Week 1 (W vs. Denver) 6.2 7.7
Week 2 (L vs. KC) 3.4 6.1
Week 3 (L at Minn.) 5.0 5.5
CAY shows Carr’s average “completed air yards” per attempt, or the vertical distance past the line of scrimmage that his completed passes traveled. IAY shows Carr’s average “intended air yards” per attempt, or the vertical distance past the line of scrimmage that all of his attempted passes traveled. NFL Next Gen Stats provides both figures.
As you can see, Carr threw significantly further downfield in the Week 1 win against Denver, when his air yard numbers registered at about NFL average. Carr has seen a significant downtick in his IAY in the two games since then. It’s ranked in the bottom five of NFL quarterbacks over that span.
That’s obviously coincided with a stagnation of the offense — and with Raiders’ losses. In fact, 7.0 in the IAY column seems to be a magic number for Carr: The Raiders are over .500 in games where Carr’s average throw is 7 yards or longer, but only 8-24 when it’s shorter than that, as it has been the past two weeks.
So with a trip to Indianapolis looming, the Raiders need a confident Carr firing downfield to maximize their chances of righting the ship.
Anon. I agree with you. a rebuild shouldn't take forever, if you know what your doing.
Dallas has a great front seven because they committed to building a great front seven. It's not rocket science. The Raiders haven't had a great front seven probably since the 1980's. They draft a guy here and there, and then they forget all about it. They stop before the task is completed.
As for Carr, there are times when he is very good. But most of the time he is mediocre to bad.
I would like to see Carr with a lot of weapons on offense, but because of Antonio Clown, that didn't happen.
Sandy,
Gruden will (and should) continue to be judged on the Mack trade until at least next year's draft when the two teams finish the trade... but more likely until the Raiders actually field a winning team.
The Brown debacle cost the Raiders 3rd and 5th round picks. These two events have been significant set-backs in the Raiders development.
Swinging for the fences was an Al Davis trademark. And like AL often did, Gruden has so far missed the ball.
In terms labeling stub players, we haven't seen anything from Ferrell.
NY,
If you want to put down Gruden as a GM or even as a coach that is fine. But there's no need to take a shot at Al, last I checked his approach built the team we love, the culture, the spirit, and oh yeah 3 Super Bowl wins not to mention some amazing memories of Glorious games.
Sandy
Hold on a second...
Mack's trade is old news but reflecting on the glory days of 1976, 1981 and 1983 is relevant to the 2019 Raiders...?
The Raiders have been mostly irrelevant since 1983. All I am saying is that Al swung the bat plenty of times over the last ~30 year period without much to show for it. Are you intentionally forgetting the late 1980's, 1990's and 2000's? Remember JaMarcus Russell (whom Davis drafted while defying his then HC Jon Gruden who wanted to draft somebody who become known in the NFL as Megatron), Randy Moss, et al? Benching Marcus Allen? Lane Kiffin? Hiring Shell a second time (like once wasn't enough?!). Did I mention Lane Kiffin? The list is long.
Lots of swings and misses of epic proportion. Again, what I am saying is Gruden, in his early return to the ring, has a couple doozies of his own. Forget Mack and Brown for a second, I'm still trying to imagine what Greg Olson and Tom Cable bring to the table.
I think I can say what I said about Al and still believe and appreciate Al's tremendous contribution to the Raiders and its organization well over three decades ago.
No disrespect to the man was intended. But somehow the Raiders have managed to defy all odds by being bad for so long... and still without clear sign they can climb out of it (you yourself have predicted a loss this Sunday against the Colts... whose starting QB retired to start the season). The Raiders as an org have taken a +billion dollar franchise in a league built on parity and completely turned it upside down. They have swerved and weaved their way to oblivion... with perhaps sprinkles of mediocrity. Maybe the laws of physics no longer exist in Oakland. E=m(a)c(k)2
I've been a patient man but 00 has got my blood flowing again with his talk about an owner who admits he's just smart enough to know he's not smart enough.
Maybe 10 years was too long of a leash. Where's the motivation in absolute job security?
It starts at the top. You can shuffle in new head coaches, new Gm's, new players, but the losing just continues if the organization is rotten at the top.
I believe the Raiders were relevant after 1983. They were in the championship game in 1990, and made the playoffs several times in the '90's. They still had great players on the roster, Bo Jackson, Tim Brown, Howie Long, Chester Mcglockton. They even had Jim Lachey for about 2 minutes,( that was a bad trade for Schroeder.)
It was really after the 2002 super bowl loss that the bottom fell out. It's been falling ever since.
NY,
I agree with 00 they were not as consistently great in the 90s and early 2000s as they were in the 70s and early 80s but there was still considerable success and great talent.
You brought up and disparage Al which is disrespectful to our beloved founder. I did not bring him up.
Have a good weekend
Sandy
Huh? This is all I said:
"Swinging for the fences was an Al Davis trademark."
What's disrespectful or disparaging about that? It's a fact.
Do you need more examples? What about DHB and all the other Combine speedsters that Al selected high in the draft despite their lack of college experience and/or football acumen?
How many of those worked out?
Some teams have that luxury but since about 1984 (and definitely since 2002) the Raiders have not been one of those teams.
In his pressers I keep hearing Gruden tell us that other teams have continuity, presumably, that the Raiders can't match. It sounds like it's starting to become an excuse as to why the Raiders are not competing and got thoroughly outplayed and out-coached the last two games. Gruden is already setting that table for the Colts, a team that lost its starting QB right before the season began.
Last time I checked, Raiders have the same coaches, the same starting QB, and mostly the same linemen on both sides of the ball for the second straight year. Doesn't that account for any level of continuity? It was a topic of discussion during the off-season but somehow it no longer applies...?
Time to man-up and win, lose or draw play competitive football. It starts with Gruden and his playcalling.
You said Al often missed when swinging for the fences. That is incorrect. I consider your comments about Al disrespectful to start piling on him when you're not even correct ten years after he's dead really uncool.
Al had many many great player moves and saw and found value where others didn't. I don't know how long you have been a fan for but Jamarcus and dhb don't even compare to the great picks and trades for people like Howie Long, Lester Hayes, Jim Plunkett, Ted Hendricks, Rich Gannon, and Jerry Rice to name but a few
Sandy
"You said Al often missed when swinging for the fences. That is incorrect"
It is? You cited a few obvious misses yourself. Russell wasn't just another day at the office, and Randy Moss...?
Sure, Al brought a lot of great players to the Raiders and had tremendous successes over a long period of time. I never said he didn't. Davis was unconventional and willing to take chances... that's what I metaphorically referred to as "swinging for the fences."
I guess I just don't understand why you are so sensitive to that. Are we not supposed to discuss historic failures and only speak in terms of historic successes?
If we're being honest, the Raiders have a new chapter in their history. "Epic failures," and it largely postdates Al but it doesn't exclude him..., i.e., unless we're dealing in revisionist history.
NY,
You are correct I am sensitive to it. I know how frustrated you are by the last 10 plus years, I am also. However, I feel criticism of Davis is akin to blasphemy. He died awhile ago, anything with the current Raiders has nothing to do with him at this stage and we should only look back in fondness and respect at the gifts he gave us.
I am an old grouchy man who still can conjure up the memories of superbowls and great games to try and sustain me. I prefer to only look at him in that light.
Let's hope we have a nice memory come Sunday afternoon to discuss this coming week.
Have a good weekend my friend
Sandy
You as well!
GO RAIDERS!
Getting ready to head over to the place of worship (wink) where I will watch the game. I don't like the early games any more than the Raiders... who often suck playing in ET zone. Gruden was reported to have changed the Raiders practice to mornings, supposedly to change the players personal clocks and get them used to earlier action.
Sorry, but that's a poor excuse and a reach for a bad team.
Check out Chris Simms video "breaking down Raiders flaw" on PFT. The "Stick Route" Gruden uses is a west coast play that Simms believes is domed from the start. Vikings defended it perfectly, as they did virtually every other play in the Gruden playbook.
I read a blog report that suggested the Raiders will move Williams around more. Hopefully, Davis and/or Doss will be more involved and, hopefully, Gruden will send somebody more than 10 yards down the field to catch a pass. Save one game that Derek Carr was on fire, the Raiders offense hasn't produced a spark since Gruden's re-arrival.
Today is the quarter mark of the 2019 season. Sure things take time, but when is a fair cutoff point after which expectations start to rise?
GO RAIDERS!!
Post a Comment
<< Home