Bengals Gameday Thread
Things are setting up very nicely and surprisingly the AFC West. This is no time to faceplant against an inferior team, go Raiders!
posted by Raider Take at 2:31 PM
posted by Raider Take at 2:31 PM
28 Comments:
Maxx Crosby!
The offense was a bit underwhelming but Crosby and the defense stepped up. Our o-line was manhandled today. That's a stout defensive front for the Bengals.
I don't care what the Bengals record is, this is a big win for the Raiders!
Cheers!
This game was won by Crosby and Derek Carr (with his scramble TD). How many of us, though, told DC when he went airborne, "HANG ON TO THE BALL!"
We saw Jacobs first fumble, and become the only Raiders RB in their first year to have 4 games with 100+ rushing yards, not even Marcus or Bo did this (because Bo was splitting carries). Unbelievable!
This was a sloppy game, and the Raiders did try to give it away several times. They played down to their competition and was lucky to get out with a win. Thanks Crosby, and thanks Mullen for the late INT.
Jets are next, and they have a 2 game win streak of their own going. They are going to be tough as well; but we CANNOT afford to let them win. JUST WIN, BABY!
Carr had both hands on the ball when he crossed the goal. Jacobs was instrumental too, despite the fumble. He's the only true RB the Raiders have, and I wish they'd stop taking him off the field on 3rd downs so much.
I read one Raider blogger suggest the low offensive output against the Bengals was inexcusable. Perhaps, but the Bengals D-line was tough. Can't take any team for granted this time of year, particularly a team trying to claw out its first win.
Some discussion too that Gabe Jackson has not played well at all since his return. He had another bad day yesterday.
Next up, the Jets game is an even worse trap, IMO. It's an east coast game, which the Raiders hate, and the Jets are putting something together of their own. I think Donald threw for 4 TDs yesterday. Bengal's Finley was incompetent by comparison to Donald.
They always make it interesting, don't they. Every win this season has been within a touchdown's reach or less.
The difference is that we are finally winning the close ones and shutting things down at the end. The old Raiders lose that game to the Lions, and they let the Bengals score on the last drive.
The Gruden Show is working. Grit and resolve are back! Culture change. Mayock hit on the draft. Gotta build on it.
How about throwing more to Jacobs instead of running him straight up the middle so often when the defense knows it's coming? Get him out in space, loosen it up. I love the workload, but maybe change it up just a bit more and possibly see even greater results.
Agreed. The Bengals showed the Raiders they can't just bully their way down the field with predictable runs. But, hey, the Raiders and particularly Derek Carr responded.
RT,
You said it on the draft and FA this year. I would rather spend 17 mm per year cap hit on Trent Brown and Incognito combined than 26 mm per year on Mack. The draft has been amazing, Renfrow also looked good and to think Abram is not even playing. Also last years draft Miller, Hall and Hurst have been key contributors and Key looked serviceable till he went down.
Shout out to the coaching for integrating Swearinger (lead the team in tackles) and Jordan (got a sack) so quickly. Its part of the culture change.
You mentioned culture change I think you are right. For the first time since Al Davis glory years we are seeing a true culture change. Gruden is the man. Bringing in guys like Waller, Incognito all the while guys like Washington and Richard not making a peep as they are relegated to few touches. Knock on wood if you are with me is not a catch phrase it is a philosophy and no one has embraced the Raiders history like Gruden does. Guys are playing their role, want to be Raiders and are buying in. Something that was missing in 2016 in spite of the record. Mark giving 100 mm was genius.
I think 10-6 makes the playoffs, so they need to beat the Jets, win out at home (Titans and Jags) and beat Denver or San Diego again. Not easy but doable. Meaningful games in Nov feels great
Sandy
Don't mean to throw cold water, but making playoffs will be very hard. Must beat Jets on road, and win 3 division road games, at L.A., K.C., and Denver.
That would get Raiders to 10 wins, but like I said...very hard.
But have to be pleased by the progress Raiders have made. After the Minny game, I was ready to write off this year as just another lost season. But Raiders turned it around, and showed the future looks bright.
Another great draft by Mayock/Gruden, and we will be on our way!!
OO
They don't necessarily have to win it in LA. Per my post Titans Jags at home Jets on the road Denver on the road all teams with losing records. That will get them to 10 wins and all four conference wins.
Sandy
I hope the Raiders aren't looking past the Jets game. The Jets are playing at their highest level of the season... just like the Raiders. This will be a very tough game and only one team will get to keep its winning streak going.
The miracle is still a work in progress.
Good news though, the weather forecast is pretty mild, but it might rain.
Sounds good to me Sandy, I hope you're right.
I think the Raiders have to beat the Jets this week. We are in control of our future, and you know Gruden is hammering that message to the team right now, and asking them, "How bad do you want it?"
I say keep the focus on this week vs. the Jets; and then focus on the others as they come. This week is going to be tough enough without looking ahead. Gruden showed that he wasn't willing to look past the Bengals; and though he came out with a vanilla game plan, they won. He has to step it up and keep it coming. JUST WIN, BABY!
Nate, I agree. Jets game will be a tough one. Most of Jets struggles were when Darnold was out sick. When he returned he had some rust, but lately is looking sharp.
Darnold has a big arm, and can really zip it down field. He would have been great with the Raiders back in the vertical game days.
This is a trap game, on the road, Raiders must pull out all the stoppers.
The Giant Condor
https://www.raiders.com/video/nfln-breaking-down-mad-maxx-crosby-the-condor-baldy-s-breakdowns
Sandy
Crosby is without question the best surprise of the draft. Chris Simms and others have suggested Crosby is playing at a first round grade. His 6.5 sacks don't tell the whole story. He's been in the face of every QB the Raiders have faced as well as played the run very well.
I like the comparison to the Mad Stork. Crosby is kinda' retro like that...
Question to all:
Have the Raiders draft/fa needs slightly changed going into next year?
WR still could use a 1 or a 2 speed merchant (and the draft is full of them). O-line depth and linebacker.
However, with the Giant Condor looking like a solid starter, Ferrell coming on, Key and possibly Jordan or Mayowa, I don't think DE is a glaring need. I would say DT is more pressing baring Chase Young or Epensea falling to the Bears pick.
Sandy
Sandy...
I'd say linebackers for defense is most important.
WR, and O-line depth for the offense....my 2 cents
#1 WR and CB are still a top the Draft/FA chart. #1 WR was a the second biggest need heading into last season that we all thought was filled with AB. We missed out on drafting DK Metcalf, Hollywood Brown, and a few other top notch WRs because we signed AB. CB was a top 5 need heading into last season, and I'm not sold on Mullen being the #1 CB, and still have no faith in Worley. The problem is the WR draft list is pretty thin. A possible "steal" in the draft is Antonio Gandy-Golden (WR, Liberty). He is 6'4, 220lbs, and has 48 receptions for 945 yards and 6 TD's. He is from a small school, and a lot of scouts have been impressed with what they have seen. His stock can rise at the Combine, so I am keeping an eye on him.
There is not much in the FA market either at WR. Fitzgerald is a free agent, but has expressed that he wants to finish in Arizona. Robby Anderson of the Jets and Michael Thomas (Saints). I'd look at Emmanuel Sanders, but only if there was nothing else available.
LB and O-Line are the others. Malik Harrison (Ohio St, ILB) is a good mid round pick, and so is Josh Uche (Mich, OLB). As far as O-line, Gabe Jackson has struggled since coming off injury, and if the Raiders look to the early rounds for O-line help, then Solomon Kindley (Georgia, OG) is probably the choice. Some mid-late round Guards to keep an eye on is Logan Stenberg (Kentucky), Jonah Jackson (Ohio St), Kevin Jarvis (Mich St), and Darryl Williams (Miss St) who also plays Center.
As far as OT depth in mid-late rounds, Yasir Durant(Missouri), Lucas Niang (TCU), Calvin Throckmorton (Oregon), and Robert Hunt (LA-Lafayette).
We could still use a strong rush. Yes Crosby has been lights out, but think of getting someone else like Crosby that will help get consistent pressure from both sides, and free up the strong DT's like Hurst and Hall? Chase Young (DE, Ohio State) is a strong 1st Round possibility with the Bears slot. Yetur Gross-Matos (DE, Penn St) is a possible late first round choice as well. These 2 will definitely help solidify the Defensive line. Some late round gems to keep an eye on in this position are: Marlon Davidson (DE, Auburn), Bradley Anae (DE, Utah), Curtis Weaver (DE, Boise St), and Joe Gaziano (DE, Northwestern).
Although there are rumors of Gruden looking at QB, which I don't buy, there are some intriguing situations. Do the Raiders use the Bears slot to look at Justin Herbert (Oregon)? Rumor is Gruden is really big on this kid. I would say yes, if he was looking to replace DC at QB, which I don't think he is. But he does need a backup. I think if they don't re-sign Glennon, then Gruden may draft a QB in mid-late rounds. Jordan Love (Utah St) may be the QB drafted later in the draft, and would be a steal. Nate Stanley (Iowa) is also a QB to watch. One of the most intriguing QBs (IMO) is Sam Ehlinger (Texas). He has shown some brilliant play the last 2 season. In 2018, his line reads 65% pass completion, 3,292 yards, 25 TDs, 5 INTs. This season, 65% completion, 2,914 yards, 27 TDs, and 8 INTs. I don't know if he is low in the draft due to bad coaching, or if he is inconsistent. He doesn't have a true WR, or a running game to help his numbers, and yet he is one of the most consistent QBs in College right now.
At the end of it, the Raiders have their own Free Agents to worry about as well. Richie Incognito will more than likely be re-signed after this season. I think they will end up saying bye to either De'Andre Washington or Jalen Richard though. I think Jalen has been the better of the two, and they probably keep him for less money. Denzell Good is another FA they may keep, and Karl Joseph remains to be seen. Other than that: Glennon, Burfict, Crowell, Grant, Harris, Lawson, Marshall, D Martin, Mayowa, Wilber, and Worley round out the Raiders FA list.
Nate,
I dont know where you get your draft information but it seems different than aything I read elsewhere. Chase Young is not falling below the 3 slot so no chance we get him
WR is probably the most stacked position in the draft there are 5 plus guys who could go in the first round. Ce Dee Lamb, Jerry Jeudy, Henry Ruggs, Shenault Jr, Jefferson from LSU.
Harris is not a FA and who is D Martin are you talking about Doug Martin? He was cut in training camp lol. Marshall is not on the team either?
Sandy
Sandy
Guys,
We have the playoffs (and possibly the division) within our grasp over the next two weeks. Lets pump the brakes on all the draft talk and stay focused on the task at hand.
J-E-T-S
Thats it.
Thats all anyone should care about this week.
Just Win Baby
5er
We are in a heated race that definitely deserves our attention (one game at a time!) but this is a rebuilding season (Raiders aren't going to the SB this year). So, IMO, it's interesting to consider how the 2019 draft and subsequent moves have effected the roster and the 2020 needs. Clearly, things have shifted.
Here's my 1.5 cents....
WR: Five Alarm! Raiders WR group was stacked, until it wasn't. Raiders signed AB, Grant and Nelson to be the guys, then dumped all three. Renfrow is a keeper in the slot but Williams needs help! What happened to Doss? Is he in Gruden's doghouse?
TE? Check!
LB: Five Alarm! Burfict is done. Simply put, the NFL will suspend him again as fast as he hits the field. Whitehead is way over used by the Raiders defense. He and Morrow play 100% of the snaps, and they are both at times liabilities in coverage. MLB is still a major NEED! And should be top priority.
CB: Can always use another solid CB but the 2019 rookies have been good so far. Raider will always draft a CB.
S: Thin but mostly due to injury. Joyner has been disappointing in coverage. He's a potential baller but hasn't really found himself yet in the Raiders D. Joseph can be fierce around the LOS but sometimes disappears in coverage. Can't wait to see what Abram brings.
Edge: Crosby and Mayowa have greatly improved the position but Raiders still need help. Ferrell is no Josh Allen (yet) but he seems to be serviceable and improving. Guys like Jordan are stopgaps, but Jordan is capable of finding the next level. He was a top tier draft pick. Key is still a work in progress. He may never hit pay dirt for the Raiders.
DT: Serviceable but could stand improvement (perhaps within). Hall has stepped up his game, but Hurst has faded a little. Hankins has been a solid performer in the middle.
OL: Currently serviceable across the board, including depth (could use upgrade at swing tackle).
RB: Jacobs is a star but Raiders need to keep looking for another back. Richard and Washington are situational at best.
FB: Ingold is everything that Gruden wanted Smith to be, but wasn't. Most teams have scrapped the FB position altogether but Ingold is definitely a contributor in Gruden's offense.
QB: Okay, I suggested earlier in the season that Carr's stats were stacked in garbage time. Clearly, that has been debunked. Carr has regained his moxie! For soap opera effect, look for Gruden to take on a pet QB (w/mobility) in the off-season. Hopefully, he never hoards 4 QBs on the roster at any time, again.
Since Gruden trashed McKenzie's roster, the progress Mayock and Gruden have made to build their own roster is commendable... the 2019 draft will be tough to duplicate in 2020.
Now back to our regularly scheduled program: GO RAIDERS! Let's make "jets" a lower case word.
NY,
I have been waiting for you to put a post like this so for a long time. Through your analysis you have recognized the great things that have happened this year. I'm glad you didn't say how great Incognito is and we have to re-sign him I might have fallen and in my head LOL.
What are your thoughts on Preston Brown a stopgap or an answer for a couple of years?
Have a good weekend
Sandy
Lol.
Good and bad can live together, and almost always do. But good decisions are starting to notably outweigh bad ones. As I pointed out before, Gruden is suddenly in the conversation for coach of the year (along with several others).
Also, I have already recanted my bad vibes about the Mack trade. Hindsight is now in Gruden's corner. I couldn't have been happier when Gruden and the Raiders made their statement in London. That was a game changer, if you'll excuse the pun.
Raiders are giving all of us something to root for.
I don't know much about Preston Brown, except that he was waived and the Raiders picked him up. What I can say about that is I continue to be impressed by the Raiders proactive way of bringing in lots of players for auditions. Somebody's working overtime.
Here is something from the Athletic
Sandy
Can they do this? Can the Raiders really pull this off and not only reach the playoffs, but also make noise if and when they get there?
Jon Gruden’s team is 6-4 right now, ranked No. 11 in overall DVOA. Here are the Raiders’ final six games of the regular season along with a look at each opponent’s total DVOA, courtesy of Football Outsiders:
at Jets (No. 28)
at Chiefs (No. 3)
vs. Titans (No. 23)
vs. Jaguars (No. 16)
at Chargers (No. 19)
at Broncos (No. 18)
There’s only one team that’s definitively stronger than the Raiders, and that’s the Chiefs. So while expecting a win in that Dec. 1 game at Arrowhead Stadium is probably asking too much, it isn’t at all preposterous to envision the Raiders as favorites for the rest of their remaining contests. Considering the state of the AFC, where there are currently a load of playoff contenders with mediocre records, the Raiders actually look to be in favorable position.
Gruden has built an outfit that may be tailor-made to sneak up on people. Consider the point differential of the NFL’s five 6-4 teams:
Cowboys: +52
Rams: +45
Colts: +21
Texans: +13
Raiders: -25
The Raiders are the only ones in the negatives, but are they the worst of that bunch? DVOA doesn’t think so. In fact, only No. 4 Dallas is rated higher than the Raiders.
I think that we’ve reached this point because Gruden is doing a fair share of zagging while the rest of the league is zigging.
Consider Sunday’s 17-10 win over Cincinnati as an example. The 0-10 Bengals are horrendous. So is their -129 point differential, which the Raiders obviously didn’t expand all too much by winning only by a touchdown. In fact, the narrow margin of that victory will likely be a factor that keeps some from buying Raiders’ stock at this point.
But here’s the thing: Though the methodical team that Gruden has built may not be designed to blow anybody out, it also seems to be insulated from total catastrophe on the other end — even if its bottom-tier defense doesn’t improve all that much down the stretch.
The Raiders may be a plodding offensive unit, devoid of Grade-A wide receiving talent and reliant on a heavy offensive line and running back while the rest of the NFL is generally getting smaller at those positions, but they’ve parlayed this recipe into ball control and overall efficiency.
new-age analytical
✔
@benbbaldwin
Week 11 NFL Tiers.
--The Ravens are very, very good
--The Cowboys and Vikings are underrated but probably not going to get a playoff bye so likely doomed in the playoffs
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The Raiders remain outliers on that tier chart. They’re the only NFL team that’s managed to pair such a bad defense with such a good offense, and they’re 6-4 with a serious chance at a record much better than that because their offense has done so much to limit the exposure of their defense (which has admittedly been solid over the past two games, but against below-average offenses).
The link has come from the quarterback position. Here’s a composite of EPA and completion percentage over expectation (CPOE), which illustrates just how good Raiders quarterback Derek Carr has been:
EPA and CPOE composite, NFL rankings
Dak Prescott, Cowboys
Kirk Cousins, Vikings
Drew Brees, Saints
Carr, Raiders
Russell Wilson, Seahawks
Carr’s performance has not been flashy this season, but that fits with his entire team’s 2019 M.O. He’s played his way into the top five of a combined quarterback metric that tracks efficiency at many of football’s less visible junctures. That’s why the Raiders are suddenly in such solid position.
They’re getting excellent play from the man who matters most.
NY my man this one is from you on Incognito from The Athletic, Sandy
It’s been a great fit for me’: Raiders and Richie Incognito have plans for him to return next season
By Vic Tafur 1h ago 10
It’s hard to imagine the Richie Incognito signing in May going any better for the Raiders to this point. The guard has not only been a model citizen and a leader in the locker room, but at 36 years old he has quickly regained his Pro Bowl form of two years ago.
It has gone so well, in fact, that Incognito and the Raiders plan to run it back next season. Incognito and team officials both want him to be a Las Vegas Raider, barring any surprises.
“It’s been a great fit for me,” Incognito said Thursday, “and it’s been really good for them too.”
Incognito signed a one-year contract for the veteran’s minimum and per a rule in the Collective Bargaining Agreement, the Raiders can not extend it. So while the two sides have discussed contract parameters, any real negotiations will have to wait until after the season.
The reason why is something called the Minimum Salary Benefit. Because Incognito was a 12th-year veteran, his minimum salary is weighted and a lot higher than younger players. Incognito signed for $1.03 million, but the league, in order to not discourage teams from signing older players, is only charging the Raiders with a salary cap hit of $569,118.
In exchange, the CBA stipulates that “a qualifying contract may not be extended or renegotiated in any matter.”
Incognito was suspended for the first two games of the season for an arrest a year ago, but has started eight games at left guard since returning. He has helped keep quarterback Derek Carr’s jersey clean — the Raiders are second in the league in sacks allowed (15) — and opened up running lanes for running back Josh Jacobs.
“Richie has been a steadying force for us,” Raiders coach Jon Gruden said two weeks ago.
Incognito ran into trouble at his previous stops in college at Nebraska and in the NFL at St. Louis, Buffalo and Miami. His college career included several fights with teammates and suspensions and anger-management issues followed him throughout his NFL career. It all came to a head in 2013 when the Dolphins suspended him for conduct detrimental to the team related to his treatment of teammate Jonathan Martin. Incognito sat out the 2014 season before returning to the NFL in 2015 for a second stint in Buffalo.
Incognito retired after the the 2017 season and in May of 2018 was placed on an “involuntary psychiatric hold” following an incident at a Florida health club. He was arrested in August 2018 for an incident at an Arizona funeral home where his father’s body was being held. He didn’t play last season and when he returned to the NFL, that arrest prompted the two-game suspension.
Incognito has said that he has seen mental health specialists since that latest incident and is feeling good.
Raiders offensive coordinator Greg Olson was on the staff when Incognito was with the Rams, and vouched for the guard before he signed with the Raiders. Incognito came out of retirement to “rewrite the ending of my career.”
And now he is going to add a chapter.
“It’s almost like he’s found the fountain of youth,” Olson said recently. “He looks fresh … he looks like a young player. So, we’re excited about that. Certainly as they get older, you expect the legs to wear down first on somebody like that, but he’s shown no signs of aging right now.”
Incognito is popular among the Raiders’ veterans and younger players.
“I do know that the young players appreciate Richie and the way he prepares,” Olson said. “I know (center) Rodney Hudson has mentioned it. They really just appreciate the professionalism that he brings to work every day and the willingness to help the young players.
“We’ve got a number of older players that do that, but Richie is certainly at the front of the line for that. So, we’re happy.”
— Reported from Alameda
(Photo: Daniel Shirey / Getty Images)
NY,
Are you secretly based out of London and writing for the Chronicle?
Sandy
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/nov/22/oakland-raiders-jon-gruden-nfl
A lot to digest. The sleeper in much of the discussion has been the Raiders defense. I made comment the last three weeks in a row that the Raiders D stepped up when it matters most. Guys like Crosby make it happen.
But you can't put up a 4-sack game without getting a target on your back. Teams will be keying on Crosby so the Raiders need others to step up and make plays. This is where the Raiders failed Mack... prior to Gruden and Guenther.
Let's see what they bring Sunday!
Players should be sequestered from media patting them on the back for job well done after 10 games.
6 games left. Let's finish the season with meaning, so there's no doubt in anyone's mind the Raiders are back, baby!
GO RAIDERS!
nyraider said "this is a rebuilding season (Raiders aren't going to the SB this year)"
5er said - So certain are you?
The only thing that is certain about the Raiders and the SB is that I will root for them to get there no matter what. The comment is only intended to be realistic.
Another thing is certain, Raiders have a very tough east coast game today in what looks like crappy weather.
Jets are not going to roll over. Since getting Darnold back, they look like a different team. They've won 2 in a row and have a chip on their shoulder.
So this has the potential to be a brawl... and that's if the Raiders bring their A game.
Enjoy the game!
GO RAIDERS!!
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