Browns Gameday Thread
At this point, we're back to the perennial late-season, last-gasp pursuit of respectability instead of vying for a serious playoff berth. A win today against a depleted Browns is entirely doable. So go out and do it. GO RAIDERS!
posted by Raider Take at 1:07 PM
22 Comments:
I hate that the game is on 5 PM ET, but maybe I'm spoiled because most TV programming seems to favor the east coast.
Honestly, there's not much else to do but perhaps earn but a modicum of respect. The Raiders can either continue to go out with a whimper, or they can try and save some face. If all they can manage is to split their remaining games, the Raiders end up with another losing season.
And we thought 2020 was one for the books, 2021 somehow beat 2020 in the realm of craziness.
It's really disheartening to see the Raiders run such a vanilla offense. Also, to see them play so conservative the entire game, only to throw a high-risk long pass for an INT toward the end of the game when they had plenty of time to methodically march the ball down the field and attempt a FG for the win. Why take that risk? It was totally unnecessary. Fortunately, they won despite that stupidity.
I wouldn't have suspected, but it's apparent the offense is rudderless without Gruden. I wasn't thrilled with Gruden's play calling but it was immensely better than what we're seeing now.
And the defense isn't the same without Perryman (the thumper!) and Hobbs. Abrams stepped up nicely and the D held but they were too soft against a really weak Browns offense.
In the end, it was another lackluster performance, this time against a team with 18 players and the head coach out, including 8 starters, against a 3rd string QB. It should have been a Raiders blowout, right?!
Hope the Raiders don't pat themselves on their backs too hard for that win. Half the Browns roster was in quarantine.
Very vanilla game, way to play down to your competition, Raiders. Carr fumbled and threw an INT, in what I thought would seal the win for the Browns, but they defense gave us another chance, and Carr stepped up. Carr has to learn to hold on to the ball. That is his one weakness.
This whole coaching staff needs to go. Bring in a competent HC (Harbaugh, Bienemy) hire Wade Phillips as DC, and Bill Musgrave or Bill O'Brien as OC. Time to get past the hump here.
The desperation chuck on first down in double coverage toward the end of the game when it wasn't desperation time was a real head scratcher.
Derek Carr, time to go?
How many times have we seen him drop the ball, literally drop the ball because he feels he is going to get hurt? Then he lays on the ground like he broke his leg again. It would be hard to have respect for your QB when you see the other teams QB play with a heart as big as the field and your QB showing such a fear of contact.
I agree with the assessment of Carr's pick near the end of the game. He has major brain farts that kill the team in crucial times.
Yes Cleveland had players out, Raiders missing 2 of their best Offensive weapons, Waller, Ruggs and their 2 best G's. Raiders also played without their pro bowl MLB. Abram went down with a separated shoulder. Hobbs was out, they also have had multiple players out at CB because of injury
Just win, baby. Fat lady is still here.
When the Raiders were forced to play last year with several of their players out, they folded. If the reverse had happened in this game, i.e., Raiders players in quarantine, the Raiders would have been crushed by the Browns.
The Raiders lost Ruggs several weeks ago and signed Jackson. Renfrow has been lights out since Ruggs was cut. They spent two years starting Bryan Edwards and they drafted Moreau years ago. These are the guys the Raiders scouted and consciencely selected. Also, they lost their guards months ago and have had the entire season to figure that out.
The Browns lost 18 players, a HC within days of playing this game, and had a starting DT out with injury during the game (matching the Raiders loss of Abram).
Honestly, hats off to the Browns. Based on their circumstance, they were the better team Monday. They had more heart and desire to win that game. By some miracle, the Raiders pulled it out.
IMO, if the Raiders hire competent HC and GM, they are 1-2 years tops from being back in a perennial playoff mix. To sum it up, the last four years has been largely a waste of time... once again.
Btw, I was kinda fooled into the thinking the Raiders made progress on their defense. I just learned during the Browns game that the Raiders are second to last in scoring defense. Only the Jets are worse.
They signed and drafted some solid players, like Nagokue, Perryman (the Thumber!), Hobbs, and others, but Gus Bradley is not the guy. His reactionary style of defense sucks!
Case and point: The Raiders could have played aggressive D and smothered the Browns offense. All the Browns passes were underneath coverage, which has been the Raiders Achilles heel all season. Why were the Raiders even playing a deep safety. No ball went more than 10 yards. It's frustrating to watch how poorly coached this team is.
Guys you are all so sour, NY gald you saw fit to congratulate the Browns lol.
The Raiders season was doomed when we lost Gruden and then Ruggs, no team comes back from that. Combined with a medicore line losing its two starting guards and we are lucky to be 7-7. What do you expect out of the offense with no Waller, a crap o-line and really only Renfrow being a true starting caliber WR out there. The defense was without multiple starters (at least 4 and 5 once Abrahm went out) and played decent other than the collapse on the go ahead drive. They held Chibb in check and that should be appreciated.
I enjoy every victory to its fullest it makes my week better and I look forward to reading articles after a win. Fellow Raider bros (that even includes NY) enjoy the fact we still have someting to cheer for, hell if the raiders run the table they are probably in the playoffs at 10-7. Unilkely to happen but I will be rootinghard for it.
I think the Raiders are a DT, an offensive lineman and a wr awCay from being a perenial playoff team. Congrats to our Pro Bowlers Mad Maxx, Perryman, ole---Heyward and Miller should be there too and soon Hobbs will. Waller will prbably be named an alternate along with Casey. That is a solid core of guys, especially given the overall age of the roster
Anyone who trashes Carr is a fool. He is a top 12 maybe top ten QB. No QB has done less with more during the last 7 years than Carr. God forbid the Raiders get rid of him and go back to QB purgatory. Are some of you missing Aaron Brooks, Andrew Walter, Jason Campbell, Terrel Pryor? Give me a friggin break. Unless we are swinging a trade for Rogers or Wilson what else is there. I sure would take Carr over guys like Mayfield, Wentz, Bridgewater, Tanehill etc.
Happy Holidays
Sandy
God forbid the Raiders get rid of him and go back to QB purgatory.
Totally agree with this statement, Sandy. I was just commenting that he has to hold the ball better. It seems like every time he's been hit this season, he has dropped the ball. If I'm HC, I'm making him run the gauntlet while people try to slap the ball out of his hands, until he learns not to drop it.
If we had shown up and played aggressive football the last four weeks, we could be sitting near 10-4 or 9-5 right now. I believe that our woes are not beyond being fixable this season, I just think we have incompetent coaches. Players make mistakes, and that is part of the game; but our game calling on both sides of the ball has been atrocious the last 5 weeks. I expect better from them in games like this, but they continue to play down to competition. Just win, Baby!
"I think the Raiders are a DT, an offensive lineman and a wr away from being a perenial playoff team.
what about:
Head Coach
General Manager
OC
DC
Assistant coaches
RT - for something like the 4th draft in a row.
Not to mention signing or replacing all the free agents the Raiders will have this off-season.
Tough to get giddy about sloppy win against a historically depleted team and a 7-7 record.
It's not business as usual, although, it may appear it for the Raiders. IMO, there is a global failure within the organization to hire professional and effective management and coaching. 19 years and still counting! That's speaks for itself.
Simply saying Gruden would have done better this season doesn't make it so. The Raiders collapsed to end the last two season just like so far this year. The pattern is the same, despite changing circumstance. Truth is, we will never know. For whatever the reason, unforced or not, it's another failure.
As to the remaining games, I will certainly and always root for the Raiders but they have displayed nothing in recent weeks that leads me to believe they can compete at a playoff level. This team, again, for whatever reasons, excuses, etc., is a total mess. I believe guys are playing hard, but coaching has jumped the shark. Suffice to say, playcalling on both sides of the ball is less than stellar.
That may sound sour but it's the simple truth. The win in Cleveland is a small victory in another disastrous season.
I stick by my prediction that Bisaccio's short Head Coaching career will soon come to an end. He is not a competent HC.
it doesn't sound sour, maybe a little whiny.
The coaching hasn't been great and what team would be, with their ST's guy as the HC.
It's been another rough year for the team. The way I look at it is, even with all that has gone on this year, the team is still battling and still in the hunt.
We all know the history of this team and the hills it has to climb even before stepping on to a field.
Raider history shows a team and franchise that is like no other. No other owner was like Al Davis. No other team would take castoffs and turn them into pro bowl players. No team has fought against a corrupt league like the Raiders have. Too bad we still didn't have an owner who is willing to take on the league, instead of complying with it. The Raiders were the symbol of non-conformity and all us rebels fell in love with them.
WE all know there will be more change again. It's going to be hard for the Raiders to get top talent and this is a problem. If Mark can get a really good football guy to hire as president and let it start from there. Mark can't be the one to turn it around, someone really good at what they do, has to be the hire. Last time, Mark reached for the past, now he has to look to the future.
Bisaccio probably wouldn't want the job, he isn't a HC and maybe he found that out himself this year.
I think with Carr, yes, he can light it up when things are going his way. Problem with Derek, he can be thrown off his game if there is contact on him during the game. Bosa said it, plain as day.
Also, when Carr feels pressure, he panics, which creates poor choices. He also gives up the ball whenever he has a couple of defenders on him. Yes, he can pick apart D's, he can win the game in the last minute. He can read a D, but he doesn't play well in the cold, he doesn't play well under pressure, he doesn't like to run for fear of injury or fumble.
Vs the Browns, there were many opportunities for Carr to take off and run for 1st downs. I said to my friend, if only we had a Kyle Murray or someone like him who can run. The Offense would be unstoppable with a QB like that. I believe, Gruden wanted a QB who could run and wasn't completely satisfied with Carr, that's IMO.
Maybe Rodgers will come? Would have to be a great coaching hire 1st.
Even with the Raiders troubles, Vegas is bait for free agents. Not only can Vegas lure with its flash but Nevada has no state income tax. That's a 13% pay raise over CA.
Players want to win, if a player is all about the money, then he should play for someone else.
The players/coaches in the league, know what it is playing for the Raiders. It was no more evident than this year and just cemented the conspiracy theory of it all.
Who wants to play/coach for a handicapped team? It's a dilemma all right. It's nothing new, much like the days when the owner could not attract quality coaches because of the situation they would have had to coach under.
To be clear, if players only (or even mostly) want to win, they aren't going to LV (Antonio Brown couldn't get out of Oakland fast enough after the Raiders traded for him, he had to pick a fight with Mayock). Even the Raiders have put winning in the back seat, as fans for opposing teams fill their stadium and they continue to spin out one underwhelming season after another. So let's at least be honest about that.
Generally speaking, sure, players want to win but it's a business. Saying it's not about money is incorrect, to be polite. A $10M contract in NV is worth $1.3M more than the same contract in CA. You don't think that's being considered?
Keeping the players engaged and making a run for the playoffs largely boils down to leadership. Just when we think the Raiders might have found that edge, it disappears.
It's a real shame.
It is a business and players and coaches can choose where they want to be, right now, I would have to say, if you want to get frustrated, play for the Raiders. Coaching/management change, Mark will have to perform a Houdini trick to get anyone to come there.
Players can get big money and a chance to win signing elsewhere. All those who are left over in free agency, will be all the Raiders can pick from, it could be the future we are going to witness. Maybe the league is trying to force Mark out, it is the NFL of course.
Let's be honest, that there would not be so many of the other teams fans in the crowd, if they were still in Oakland. Most fans knew it wouldn't be the same in Vegas.
Situation they would've had to coach under?
What was that?:
1. to learn from 1 of the best football mean ever?
2. to get the best football people on staff to help you and advise from them and Al even if you bring in your own staff?
3. to know you will get some darn good personnel to go with your own players?
4. to have a loyal guy back you as long as you work hard?
What situation are you talking about?
Al may've been in a slump and had issues that needed changing but he was still one of the best GM's in the NFL.
Media claimed time "past him by" and that basically he needed to quit and let somebody else try being GM.
But you supported it and now you STILL expect somebody to come to L.V. and build a good staff and personnel and a competitive system.
Reggie came and the team become some of the worst defenses and special teams in the NFL.
Mayock and Gruden came and the Raiders still hadn't built a winning
Maybe when it comes to winning the one thing the NFL is o.k. with Raiders losing. Its' been 9 years since Reggie was named GM and the team didn't get better.
All that talk about 5 years and what a 'mess' Al made was to make us pissed with Al while they made a case to get NFL people to advise the team. When he passed media hyped "new era" to keep us pissed with Al while they got people inside to get ready to move team, erase Al's era and maybe get some other stake holders in it.
The drafts and coaches didn't work out and the team didn't work had to get star free agents to come to Oakland/ L.V.
Is it really that the Raiders make bad decisions or is this what the NFL is for the new Raiders. Just waiting and losing for years?
A scout, A commissioner, A position coach, A head coach and an owner.
Do stars want to come to the "new" Raiders? Well, if the do then the Raiders just don't want to pay them or maybe its' because Al/ Gruden aren't there anymore and the
Why is L.V. attractive for them? You mean, if Al was in Oakland and knowing the history of the Raiders players didn't want to come because of the ugly stadium?
But if they got an owner who would pay them and be loyal to them why would they put glam and a stadium above that?
With Reggie that wasn't the case, it was high character, come to work to win and passionate football players no big contracts we don't pay big money; and(Raiders) try to get good coaches or game mangers.
Well, they were cheap and they looked for football players over greedy stars and they got cheap football with other teams having bigger, faster players and they couldn't do their Bellichek/ Steelers thing by beating them.
They were rebuilding and after 5 years came 1 playoff trip with few good coaches and drafts but mostly terrible-mediocre leadership and football.
The media hyped a mediocre system, Raidernation kept listening and expecting a change and the team kept getting worse on defense, offense, scoring and drafting players.
If the situation is better than I don't see it. I would much rather have Al situation.
Vegas definitely presents a challenge like no other NFL city. It's a global destination market. No more one-sided fan-based home field advantage. Based on accounts from my friends who have attended games, the Raiders fans are barely 50/50 in the stands.
But that's kinda my point about Mark Davis and the Raiders. They no longer need to win to fill the stadium. I'm sure they want to win, but it's no longer requisite to their bottom line.
Feels like the only one's getting screwed here are the loyal Raiders fans who have stuck by the Raiders for two decades while they've stumbled through bad choices and epic failure. Mark Davis figured out how to solve his financial problems but has so far left the fans out in the cold.
As we watched the Raiders squeak out a win against a depleted Browns team, it's amazing to me that some fans are still satisfied with the status quo. A win is a win! But the Raiders are not a winning team. The only thing the modern Raiders lead the league in is failure. 19 seasons almost in the books, I'm still hoping that will change.
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all!
Browns' NFL Legends
B. Kosar #19
G. Pruitt #34
J. Brown #32
O. Newsome #82
P. Warfield #42
G. Collins #
J. Thomas #77
J. Delamlaire #68
A. Mack #50
G. Hickerson #66
C. Rison #
L. Groza #76
PR J. Cribbs #16 (no. #5 WR)
H. Long #75
S. Gilbert #90
J. Henderson #79
A. Smith #94
G. Irons #86
M. Millen #55
J. Robinson #57
R. Woodson #26
C. Johnson #37
R. Lott #42
M. Davis #36
J. Jeager #18
PR C. Garrett #31
J. Marshall #70
M.D. Perry #92
B. Golic #79
G. Sherk #72
C. Matthews #57
W. Micheals #34
C. Banks #56
H. Dixon #29
J. Hayden #23
E. Turner #29
D. Flemming #46
B. Colquitt #
KR E. Metcalf #21 (no. #2 RB)
Raiders' Big Play Squad
R. Gannon #12
M. Allen #32
M. Hubbard #44
D. Casper #87
W. Wells #81
J. Nelson #87
C. Hannah #73
G. Upshaw #63
D. Mosebar #72
S. Wisnewski #76
H. Lawernce #70
S. Lechler #9
KR J. Ford #12 (no. #4 WR)
D. Vatelli (no. #3 WR)
B. Edwards #17 (no. #4 WR)
B. Gain #79 (3-4 NG)
M. Garrett #95 (edge)
B. Perrish (no. #5 DB)
D. Jackson #52 (3-4 ILB)
M. Morin #82 (no. #2 TE)
D. Rogers #20 (no. #6 DB)
R. Buchanon #34 (no. #5 DB)
V. McElroy #26 (no. #6 DB)
D. Rowe #74 (3-4 NG)
A. Wright #82 (no. #3 WR)
T. Benson #54 (3-4 ILB)
G. Giles (no. #2 TE)
D. Burgess #56 (edge)
Today, the Raiders face certain elimination from the playoffs, at home, against a division rival. This is a must-win game for the Raiders if they have any aspirations of making the playoffs.
To me, that means they may need to approach the game unconventionally. "Unconventional," meaning, stop being so damn vanilla and predictable.
Maybe, don't come out and run the ball on first down? Don't even script plays to start the game. Look what that's done for them so far this year (and most of last year). Let Derek Carr go out there and read the defense... which will likely stack the box expecting a run or short pass to start the game.
Does Greg Olsen have that in him? Honestly, I don't believe he does. Without Gruden, Olsen seems rudderless and incompetent.
I think the players are still playing hard but the team lacks coaching and execution, on both sides of the ball. Bradley has been underwhelming at best on defense.
Today is a gut check game. Gruden and the Raiders beat the Broncos last year to end the season, in a meaningless game that cost the Raiders a draft slot. This year, one team gets sent to the showers and one team stays alive for another week.
Which will it be...
Before the season began I predicted that without Incognito playing at least 75% of the games the Raiders would be lucky to finish with nine wins. Given the Gruden and Ruggs situation it's commendable that they even got to 7 wins and tetament to the fact that there's real talent on the team young talents at that.
Sandy
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