Davante Adams!
Wait, what? Instead of perennially wasting top round draft picks on known reaches, we are cashing in a couple of top round picks on an elite proven quantity? What in tarnation is going on here?
Already, the mature, sober hiring process of a forward-thinking coach-GM tandem suggested that things are changing for the better in Raiderland. Now this. Bravo!
Look, winning this division ain't gonna be easy with likely the fourth best QB (until proven otherwise) of them all.
But this is a bold and necessary step that shows the Raiders have a plan and are in it to win it.
No more reaching into the past for coaching hires, with bizarre power structures (Gruden - Reggie, Gruden - Mayock), unloading top players to stockpile picks only to blow the picks spectacularly.
Nope. Not this time.
Now, I'm not ready to call the McDaniel's era a success before it's even rolling. But at least it all points in a different direction that feels sensible and visionary.
And for that reason, I'm stoked. How about you?
posted by Raider Take at 7:00 PM
82 Comments:
Waller, Renfro, Adams, Jacobs and Carr of course. 5 pro bowlers and 1 definite Hall of Famer.
It's going to be a wild season.
Yes it looks like another step up for the Raiders and Mark Davis. Mark deserves a lot of credit, he has turned the organization into a complete 180.
Also, will not count the chickens, but it is looking like the Raiders are ready to make the next step. It's all we can ask for.
As if there was any doubt that the Raiders have upgraded from Mike Mayock....
Behind the scenes the Raiders have been shifting courses on the fly. They were reported to be aggressive in the JC Jackson sweepstakes, they also tried to bring back Casey Hayward. They end up with Rock Ya-Sin and swap Ngakoue for Jones, which is a net gain. They sign several standout special teamers for depth, then drop the mother of all bombs with Adams.
I agree, RT, trading two draft picks for Adams easily trumps collecting early draft picks to reach for players who won't make a difference... Ferrell, Arnette, Abrams, Leatherwood, and the whole debacle with Ruggs. That's a lot of wasted draft capital over a period of several years. It was painful to watch.
This is a whole new way of doing business.
With a few more issues to resolve (all in a days' work for current management), it's clear that the Raiders are going to field a pro team. Now, it boils down to coaching and execution.
Even if this current regime fails, I will continue to give kudos to Mark Davis for trying. It would have been much easier for him to keep the status quo, which is what many fans wanted and folks in media expected.
Raiders are making push to sign Gilmore. This would be remarkable.
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/03/18/report-raiders-pushing-to-sign-stephon-gilmore/
DAVANTE ADAMS!!!! Let that sink in! Derek Carr's #1 WR in college, and the best WR in the League is now back together! A #1 WR without the drama of Randy Moss and Antonio Clown!
Ziegler and McDaniels have done more in the last 3 days than Gruden and Mayock did in 4 years. Let's recap: Gruden's first week, traded both Khalil Mack and Amari Cooper. Hindsight 2020, Cooper was a good move. Mack coming back to haunt the Raiders for 2 games a year. Gruden eventually cut away from the #1 offensive line at the time, couldn't build a defense, and couldn't get the ball rolling on either side of the ball with consistency, especially in the Red Zone.
Z & McD: Signed Chandler Jones who gave an awesome warning in his presser about how Russell Wilson thought he could escape C Jones. Epic! Bilal Nichols, a strong DT who is going to make a big impact against the run and pass. Rock Ya Sin, a stud CB that is going to be lights out for us. We've had our losses, but they have not been that significant, as of yet. I heard Jalen Richard is no longer on the team, but have yet to see a report about that. I know we are not done either. Gilmore may be the one signed today. I've also heard we may be trading Abram and going after the Honey Badger.
With that said, should we land Gilmore, we have to take care of OG and maybe an OLB or two. I saw a question on Twitter that asked "What did the Raiders give up for Adams?" I replied, "Losing games, we gave up losing games." JUST WON, BABY!
I'm fine with Richard exiting the bldg. I think he's a good RB for someone but the Raiders underutilized him and he's just not in the plan with the FA RBs just signed.
Abram being traded would also be welcome news. For as many great plays as he makes against the run, he gets equally burned in coverage. Finding an "average" replacement would be an upgrade.
I've been talking about this since Derek Carr was drafted. Every HC and OC he's played for have underutilized his talents. For anyone who is not sure who Derek Carr is (was), and his prior connection with Davante Adams, this is for you.
https://www.silverandblackpride.com/2022/3/18/22984920/raiders-derek-carr-davante-adams-fresno-state
These guys reunited are now the face of the Raiders offense.
Excuse ME?
Carr has been put in position to produce in every offense.
He was drafted by a new regime not Al. If he were drafted by him he'd been gone. And he wouldn't have had much training either.
Carr is my favorite new era QB and he really loves the Raiders but Mariota is the guy who can win now.
Its amazing how you love a guy but throw other under the bus. I'm talking some of Reggie's and Gruden/ Mayock's guys.
Carr may be a good QB but he isn't great. He had Olsen as a QB coach 3 different times that's bad but at least Olsen was gone only a few years.
Mariota was a bust but man does he have upside. He was good as a back up and should've become starter in '20 when Carr went down. Not that he should've been made starter for the year but the Raiders started playing better with him in the game.
I won't be upset if either stays. But I think Mariota should get a chance to play. Carr deserves a chance with a team ready to win now.
Its' true the media/ NFL claims keeping good players and teams together is best way to win but strangely you didn't think that with Al's last rosters. He's been here 8 years and I think he might need a new home and fresh start and maybe he could become a star QB in the NFL.
Problem for Carr, he never had a true #1 wr.
He's never had even an an avg D.
If it wasn't for Carr, those earlier teams of his, would have had much worse win-loss record. They called Carr, Captain Checkdown, he had no one to throw too. He has weapons the last couple years and we don't hear Cpt Checkdown any more.
Zay Jones? Bryan Edwards? Henry Ruggs III? Cooper? etc. Carr has never had a player like Adams, Waller is amazing, but he is a TE. Renfro is slot. Now, Carr has weapons, big time weapons. Carr will succeed and will be considered a top QB when the Raiders cannot be stopped.
Mariota has been hurt how many times in 2 years? And he hardly played. There is a reason why Mariota has not been given a contract, up to this point.
The UPGRADE(S)- since '12 media and fans have claimed how much better new players are than the old ones. When Reggie took over, they claimed the players/ coaches coming in were UPGRADES over Al's players/ coaches.
Now, I'm hearing the same things about Zeiger/ McDaniels.
The Adams trade was worse than the Palmer trade because Hue traded for a pro bowl QB.
Wow! the Raiders could've gotten a good WR without trading high picks.
UPGRADE!
Reggie's UPGRADES('12-'16):
Reggie and the modern NFL system(s) were an UPGRADE over Al's 'stuck in the past', dysfunctional ideas.
D. Allen was an UPGRADE over Hue(?)
J. Jones(Packers) and R. Streater were an UPGRADE over L. Murphy
M. Flynn was an UPGRADE over J. Campbell and C. Palmer.
Reggie's free agent DBs' were an UPGRADE over CB S. Routt(?)
S. Routt and C. Johnson were a top 5 if not no. #1 CB tandem in the NFL but Reggie and Raidernation didn't think they needed them.
UPGRADE over Gruden/ Mayock
UPGRADE over Reggie
UPGRADE over D. Allen
UPGRADE over Del Rio
UPGRADE over Nkoeju
UPGRADE over Heyward Jr. and Faycon
UPGRADE over Ingold
UPGRADE over Olsen
UPGRADE over Bradley
Now, your favorite RB may be out. Is it because the Pats boys don't know talent? or are they trying to lower the cap?
Are their RB's an UPGRADE over Jacobs?
* Gruden couldn't make big moves because the NFL wouldn't let him.
Zeilger and McDaniels were allowed(by the NFL) to make moves.
They are part of the New England-model franchise system so they are allowed to do what they want.
You don't really believe Gruden didn't want or plan to make big moves to get team going? Why didn't he? because they (NFL) wouldn't let him. Not 1 trade that benefited Raiders? All his traded benefited other teams and I don't think it was bad decisions.
1. He DIDN'T draft those guys excpet MAYBE Ruggs that was Mayock.
2. Gruden was supposed to coach not make other decisions.
3. It's strange that all he did was trade he never got a guy from another team just draft picks.
4. Since when did Gruden start drafting guys from Alabama, Clemson and Ohio State more than once? Why would he keep reaching for these guys?
* The Raiders should trade Carr and use Mariota because he is electrifying. The Pats guys can see it but may go for image.
You have a guy that's been in 1 place for 8 years maybe you should go with a new guy. The funny thing is if we were talking about 1 of Al's guys it wouldn't be a problem.
* What did the Raiders give up for Adams?:
1st and 2nd rounder just like Al(R. Seymore) and Hue(C. Palmer) did and their (model franchise) ideas on not over doing it in spending and trades.
I thought that winning teams don't do that anymore. You don't give up draft picks that high.
Is this an act? If it isn't ? and if it is, you are a funny guy.
You must be the only Raider fan to be upset about signing the best WR in the league.
But anonymous and Nate,
In this NFL you don't load up with a lot of top talent you:
1. build through the draft and try to find high character, passionate, tough football players.
2. you can sign SOME star free agents but you try to get them to take less. You build with cheaper free agents.
3. Al lost his way because he depended on expensive-overpaid free agents, and overpaid vets, bigger, faster athletic draft picks over real football players. So its not good
4. its o.k. to trade for stars but you really don't need to go after the top players at certain positions (wr, rb) you can find smaller stars and cheaper players to trade for.
Its' the coaching(Bellichek, Tomlin) that makes these guys play well.
Wow! this is what they say about the modern NFL. And now all of that is gone now? Just like Al's system?
* Anon, Nate- Trying to be funny?
DeVonte is a pro bowler but he ISN'T the best WR in the NFL. Learn something about Packers receivers, when you have QBs like Farve and Rodgers they can make a WR look very good.
Adams was an outstanding pick but we don't know how it will work with Carr. Its' not the same. To say that suddenly Carr is going to go wild and take us the the playoffs is going a little far. He had decent coordinators and they tried to make him an elite QB.
Gruden IS 1 of the best QB coaches in the world. You suddenly think Olsen is mediocre after coming back 3 times?
I know the comedy and circus of OCs' cost Carr some time but still, Olsen was there 3 times and Carr did well but not elite.
Its' great to have modern football
Carr may be the best hope to finally show Raidernation that Al knew what he was talking about!!!!1
I think Carr is more of a Raiders' guy and he has issues throwing the ball so that will be on Zeigler if they keep him.
Mariota is more of that guy Bellichek is too cheap to get but would get the Raiders to make a bad trade and turn him into a star.
Mariota would be too easy for the Pats guys to win with. So I hope now they keep Carr.
No, I really like Carr but he will do a good job not the Brady like dynamic job that Mariota would do.
So, Al would win because Carr is more an Al type QB. Mariota is a project that might be a super star and that would make the Pats boys look smarter than what they are. S
So, we win with both but Mariota would help the Pats boys the most I don't wish them any bad luck but I hope now, they keep Carr and it takes longer to win more with Carr. We keep Carr and we have a true Raiders QB and we will just not a lot.
We'll win slower the Raiders' way not the Pats' Way!
Since these comments were directed at my post, I will respond.
"Carr has been put in position to produce in every offense."Carr is my favorite new era QB and he really loves the Raiders but Mariota is the guy who can win now."
It's tough to take that seriously when you consider Mariota has been a free agent for a full week and nobody has signed him (that I'm aware), while there were plenty of teams ready to give up multi draft picks to get Carr.
The market value of these two guys is self-evident. If Mariota is worth $4M annual salary, Carr's market value could easily be 10x that.
Put another way, if the Raiders traded Carr and made Mariota the starter, imagine the hysteria leading to depression that would set in across the Raider Nation?
If Mariota was better, he'd at least be a starting QB somewhere in the league. Right? As it stands, he's not even on a team... at least for now.
Maybe the Raiders will bring him back.
I've seen this act so many times on comment sections, someone is craving attention. Contradictions, non facts, innuendo, outrageous statements, all to spur a reaction from other posters.
Al Davis left the world in 2011.Let him RIP.
The posts are so nonsensical, probably a Bronco fan.
Oh, no, Al won with journeymen and guys let go by other teams and this is the image we have with Carr at QB!
He is the link between Al-old Raider football it's just that he's not a pro bowler but a good QB.
If we win with him it shows some of Al's touch is still with Raiders. If they go with Mariota it would be the Pats' guys going with a new direction with an electrifying guy at QB and I feel they should keep something that has the Old Raiders' look to it (Carr) plus he loves the Raiders the team may start winning in while with Mariota.
These 2 guys making Mariota into a star would be cool if they(media) wouldn't use it to put down on Al's/ Gruden's eras.
Mariota has some things Al liked size and can be electrifying but the Pats boys might want to make him a complete QB. That wouild make Pats boy look good. Mariota is the kind of guy Bellichek would try and use as a back up/ threat he may even try to make him a starter. He can run but if the Pats guys made him a good passer they might have something. Carr is a good player and he is a lot like an old Raiders' QB even though new era drafted him. If he stays its' good I was just saying how Mariota has the talent to be a star QB.
Interesting to discuss but wishing for Mariota to be the Raiders QB is, IMO, imaging that he's better than he is.
Mariota was fun to watch in one game for the Raiders, which he lost.
He represents a very inexpensive option for any team willing to start him. Look at it this way. A mid-level starting QB salary right now is probably over $20M. Rogers just got $60M. Carr is probably going to get around $40M... and Mariota will probably get under $10M. That's what pro scouts think of Mariota. The Raiders were paying him around $4M, so the one game that he played well gained him some goodwill.
That said, the Raiders could easily get back their 1st and 2nd round picks if they traded Carr. What are those odds, after signing Adams and recreating NCAA's record-breaking duo?
Raiders' offense is about to become a powerhouse. Embrace it!
Headline:
Davante Adams' desire to play with Derek Carr the main motivation for trade to Raiders?
Imagine the scandal if Carr was traded? Aaron Rogers might get a laugh out of it.
Mariota is a good backup at best, he is not in Carr's league. These comments are foolish. Carr will be extended in the next week or so and he deserves it. Not only is he a top 10 qb he is good dude and the reason they got Adams, anything under 40 million per year is a great deal for the Raiders. Then they need to get Renfrow done and Waller next year.
I waiting for them to sign a legit right tackle, Luke Daryl Williams or Collins hopefully.
Adams deal was awesome Raiders have the best combo of skill players in the league.
Sandy
Mariota didn't lose that Dolphins' game- your great Raiders' coaches decided to make him play conservatively and your great Raiders' D
So, NFL is like college football now? Wow! now you guys really sound uninformed. That's why most teams don't draft guys from some divisions in the 1st round, because the NFL is far more complicated than college football.
Again, I'm glad Carr is still here but I felt 1 of them was the best player and Mariota clearly is. Carr loves Raiders and reminds me of some of Al's QBs' but there has
The thinking is that McDaniels can do what Gruden allegedly couldn't and make Carr into a star.
You want to make Carr a victim of incompetence but you're the 1s' who claimed Reggie/ Gruden/ Mayock were doing good. 1 thing these elite QBs can do is make their WRs' better- Brady used both stars and average WRs and Rodgers had guys off the streets and they both won.
Carr had Gruden and some good OCs' the none sense that Carr has suffered without good players is silly.
* Broncos' fan?
The Raiders used to scare teams in the AFC West even when they weren't the best team.
Media claimed the Raiders needed to:
1. to hopefully see Al retire.
2. to get a so-called franchise QB
3. to stop paying big salaries to free agents and vets.
4. to draft high-character, passionate, smart and tough guys instead of bigger, faster guys.
The Raiders changed when the new era took over('12-present) but the Broncos did too.
Broncos '12-present:
1. has had some of the top secondaries in the NFL for the past 5 years.
2. has had some of the best DL's in the NFL the past 10 years.
3. has been able to trade for or sign veteran QBs the past 10 years years(P. Manning)
4. has had some very good LB units the past 10-15 years.
And who has been the GM most of those years? JOHN ELWAY?!!!!!
Yet, the Broncos are considered a good team and now with Wilson who is the favorite to get the wildcard?
ELWAY has outdone our GMs with easy thinking football- and SOME Al Davis ideas.
1. he will draft a bigger, faster players if he thinks his staff can develop him.
2. he still thinks press corners are imporatant.
Wow! after all the none-sense Reggie and Gruden/ Mayock have done. It seems the Pats' Way isn't that great to everybody and Elway is doing some things like Al would.
The Raiders moved away from Al's idea of speed, size and signing stars. And the Broncos do some not of of that.
Elway has run over us and built good roster. Now, Denver is a model franchise and not trying to rock the boat- but he brings in bigger, faster guys and media doesn't criticize the Broncos.
I'm seeing 1 fan base supporting haters and another fan base seeing a so called model franchise using speed and sized and not letting critics/ media tell them spending, and too many bigger, faster guys will make them losers.
So, maybe the Broncos are doing some things better than us. Even though we used to have a guy who knew how to use those ideas and built good teams.
* WaaaWowww! I did't know poor Mariota needed so much charity!
He has been a good citizen, showed good throwing didn't mess up at all in 1 game against Miami.
Oh, kay.
It's hard to understand your point.
Al Davis was great, a Hall of Famer who should be at the front of bronze Busts, in Canton. A sports legend, not just football.
Seems most fans realize that Al and the Raiders went through almost 4 decades (85' - 2021) of mediocre football. Teasing us here and there but never sustaining good quality football.
As the years went on, Al seemed stuck in a way of doing business that hurt the Raiders. By the time of his passing, the Organization was on the ventilator machine.
When Mark took over, the Organization was basically an expansion team playing in a sewer of a stadium.
Mark has swung that around in just over a decade and has the Raiders in the spotlight, much like how Al had done.
Things haven't looked this good for the Raiders since '99 - 2002. Playing in the most competitive division in the league.
Don't know what else you can ask for?
The last time I see it, Al won with journeymen in 1983-84 season. Tim Brown, Rich Gannon, Jerry Rice, Tyrone Wheatley, Charlie Garner, Bill Romanowski, Chaz Woodson, Rod Woodson, Greg Beikert, etc; were not journeymen players the last time the Raiders were in the Super Bowl against Gruden's Bucs.
The Raiders are making deals that fans haven't seen in a long time. Davante Adams took less money from the Raiders to play for Derek Carr, than what he was offered to play in Green Bay. It is rumored that Derek Carr is going to take a discount deal with the Raiders to keep the top-notched players on the team to be elite for a long time.
I get that they still have to go out and perform, but the last time we had this kind of talent was the 2000-2003 teams. Now we have the coaches to match the talent. Mark Davis is playing to win. If you don't see that, then you don't know football.
JuJu Schuster-Smith signed with the Chefs, that is their biggest move so far. Russell Wilson being traded to the Doncos is their biggest move. The fact that they still do not have an Offensive Line is going to make this a dangerous move for Wilson who is not as mobile as he once was.
Khalil Mack and JC Jackson is the Chargers biggest move, and they still don't have a lot of help on offense for Herbert.
The Raiders have made the biggest moves here: Davante Adams, Chandler Jones, Rock Ya-Sin, Anthony Averett, Bilal Nichols, and Maxx Crosby. Stephon Gilmore is about to sign, Renfrow and Waller are about to get an extension, Carr is about to take a discount extension to keep the team going. The AFC West is now the toughest division in all of football, and the Raiders just put themselves in a position to win it. #4 goes long to #17 for a BLACKJACK!!! JUST WON, BABY!!
When I said Journeymen I was talking mostly about QBs. But again, it seems like I have to show I think I know a little about Raiders history.
No journeymen in '00-'02?(3 or more teams):
R. Woodson- Pitt, Balt, 49ers
B. Rominowski- 49ers, Philly, Den.
R. Gannon- N.E., Minn., K.C., Wash.
* sewer of a stadium?:
outdoors
great weather
great public transportation
close to the freeways
The appearance or location of the stadium NEVER bothered Al or the A's when they were winning.
* '85-'21?:
90-91 went to the playoffs(lost bad to the Bills).
'93 went to the playoffs
'00-'02 won the division titles.
'03-'11 for some reason that makes no sense 1 of the most talent loaded teams in sports couldn't win more than 8 games over a 9 year period.
If not going to the SB is the high bar of what a team is than every team except the Pats' and maybe the last decade of 49ers' football and last 4 years of K.C. football can . I thought making the playoffs a lot makes you a good football team.
The Steelers, Packers, 49ers, Pats all go to the playoffs. That's why the media gives them good grades.
The Al Raiders weren't mediocre for 36 years. They went to the playoffs in the 90's and then made the playoffs in the '00s' for 3 straight years. Then they suddenly stopped winning.
You just said it:
K.C.
the best offense in the division
added Schulster
good pass rush
a few DBs' and they are a SB contender again.
Good special teams
Den.:
Has the receivers
has the D
needs an O.L and RB to have a team that can challenge K.C.
LAC:
a very good QB
just added two pro bowlers to a o.k. D that already has a Bosa rushing the passer.
D needs to get better to be a playoff team.
has a good running game
doesn't have the receivers they usually have. Losing Gates and other TE's hurt them.
* ventilator machine? ('11 Raiders):
2 pro bowl kickers
2 pro bowl lever RB's
top 5 special teams
top 10 pass rush/ 4 pro bowl level DLs'.
some of the best assistant coaches in the NFL.
a pro bowl level QB(Palmer).
a good QB on injured reserve(Campbell).
1 of the most electrifying KRs' in the NFL(J. Ford '10-'11).
Love Carr but Mariota could've given them the electrifying player to use his athleticism only throwing a little to challenge K.C. while McDaniels teaches him to pass better and be an NFL QB.
"Mariota didn't lose that Dolphins' game- your great Raiders' coaches decided to make him play conservatively and your great Raiders' D"
Why do you say "your great Raiders coaches and 'your' Raiders D?" How are those things possessive to me? I didn't hire the coaches, nor did I sign the players.
I seem to remember Mariota threw a key INT in that game, near the end zone.
The Browns thought so much of Mariota, they signed Deshaun Watson instead. Last I read, Watson is facing about 2 dozen civil lawsuits and possible NFL suspension.
At this point, it doesn't look like Mariota will be a starter. He will probably need another year as backup somewhere and hope he gets another opportunity to show he has enough talent to be a regular player. One game in 2-3 years doesn't do that.
The RPO plays Gruden and Olsen had for Mariota were sloppy, at best.
?????????
Dare to ask, but what is your point?
My Points:
Mariota DIDN'T lose that game.
The media really conned Raidernation with the model franchise thing, you keep a team together so it can eventually win.
Carr IS a good QB, I love Carr but he's been her
I want Carr but I'm looking past my own selfishness and I see a guy who is an Al buy and I want him but Mariota is like
He is the guy these two Pats guys might be able to turn into a huge play maker.
I was hoping both would stay and rotate and be a scoring threat. Bellichek would turn Mariota into a huge offense
Heard Atlanta may take him....Well there goes the Falcons- PLAYOFFS. He isn't M. Jones but he will electrify the Falcons.
The Pats of course would like Carr he's a safe pick but make no mistake, Bellichek wouldn't pretend to have a star QB. He(Carr)isn't Brady and not electrifying like Mariota so he'd be playing conservative Patriots' football because he hasn't yet been an offensive show like the Montana and Brady's.
Hey, that's o.k. we don't need an elite QB but we need somebody to win and that is Mariota. The Pats would try to develop him I'm surprise the Pats boy didn't.
I know Mariota will become a star in Atlanta. I'm glad Carr is here but I would just take the Pats way of developing unwanted QBs'(Mariota) because I think Mariota is more of a Pats' developmental QB, still would help us win maybe later.
The shift in talent from the NFC to the AFC is pretty astounding. Colts just acquired Matt Ryan from the Falcons, who are said to be interested in possibly getting Mariota.
Speaking of Ryan, Julio Jones is out there awaiting to be signed. Not that long ago, these two guys were among the most dangerous tandems in the league. Raiders could use another wideout to start opposite Adams.
With the Raiders trading 1st and 2nd picks to the Packers, any other starters they sign this year will almost certainly have to be via free agency. They can't expect plug-n-play draftees after the middle of round 3, which is when the Raiders 1st pick will happen.
Big needs still at RT, WR and LB. That's at a minimum. S and DL too. Nassib was a contributor last year, so they will need to replace him. Maybe Ferrell steps up. He's almost disappeared from the defense.
Mariota is going to Atlanta. That's great for him. I wish him the best, but this isn't even a close call. Derek Carr is an 8-year starter entering the prime of his career. Mariota has never even played a full 16-game season. Carr is a smarter game manager and has ~ 30 game winning drives to his credit. When the game is on the line, Carr is cooler than ice.
And before you start thinking Mariota is the Falcons savior, watch for them to draft a QB in the first round. That's how much they think of Mariota as a long-term solution.
Mariota gave way to Tannehill who had no problem beating Mariota out as the starter in TN.
The competition in the AFC West is so intense, anything less than Derek Carr at his best is going to keep the Raiders out of the playoffs. Raiders are getting loaded for bear, but they will need to execute their game plan at the highest possible level. That means Derek Carr doing what he does much better than Mariota, reading defenses and calling audibles at the LOS.
Sorry but it's not a close call.
Mariota to Atlanta! I hope he does well there too NY. I think Baker Mayfield may be headed to Seattle. Raiders re-signed Brandon Parker. Chiefs WR Demarcus Robinson is meeting with the Raiders today, and added LB Micha Kiser from the Rams yesterday. They extended Jermaine Eluemunor as well as signed OLB/DE Kyler Fackrell (played under Graham) and TE Jacob Hollister (as if we needed another TE).
Not sure we get Gilmore, who is in Cincy. That would be a big blow. I still think we need another CB. Haven't really addressed the O-Line either. Will be interesting to see.
Surprisingly, it looks like the Raiders are rolling with last year's O-line. Where's Danzell Good? Is he playing for the Raiders in 2022? Brandon Parker scares me. Hopefully, he's a backup. He's probably the worst OT in the league.
My opinion on Robinson is that he's been stuck on a WR-stacked roster with the Chiefs and he's probably better than his career stats imply. He's a capable deep threat. That was a good find for Zeigler, IMO.
I agree about Gilmore, Nate, I would feel a lot better if we could sign him. Mullen has not really proven himself, leaving Ya-Sin and Hobbs as the only high-level starters. I wish the Raiders had retained Facyson... he wasn't too expensive.
So far, Zeigler has signed a boatload of players. Perhaps the difference here (compared to Gruden) is that Zeigler is retaining the Raiders core players. Gruden went through the roster like a hot knife through butter early on. Gruden traded the face of the Raiders defense (Mack) while Zeigler extended Crosby.
So far, Zeigler has been extremely busy. It's ironic because he stalled the first couple days. I think that was because they went after JC Jackson who signed with the Chargers. Jackson had 8 INTs last year! Getting Adams, Jackson and Jones would have been insane.
Just when it looked like every team in the AFC was getting better, Chiefs lay an egg. News is they are trading Tyreek Hill. Maybe they will get rewarded in that trade (which includes 5 draft picks), but Hill is the most dangerous WR they have. Plus, Raiders just signed Robinson from the Chiefs.
IMO, Chiefs may have taken a step backwards in the AFC West offseason race. Hill will be tough to replace, and we all know there is no guarantee with draft picks... even five of them.
At least in the short-term, this is a passive net gain for the Raiders.
Denzell Goode is still with the team, he was injured last season and recovering. The Chiefs traded Hill, because after Devante got paid from the Raiders, Hill wanted more, and the Chiefs said no, and he said trade me. So they traded him to a team who's QB won't be able to get him the ball, no more threat.
Raiders signed DT Vernon Butler today, another stellar find. He has played in 76 games with 19 starts in stints with the Panthers and Bills. In his career he has 106 tackles and eight sacks. His best seasons were 2019 and 2020, where he started 9 games out of 14 played for the Panthers in 2019, 22 solo tackles, 6 sacks, and 3 FF. In 2020 with the Bills, he started 9 games out of 14 played, 7 solo tackles, 1 FF. I am not sure if he's been a guy off the bench or injury, but he played in 10 games last season and started 1 for the Bills; so his time was situational and limited. The same with the Panthers. I feel he is looking to be somewhere to make an impact; and based of his 2019 stats, he could do that.
The Raiders are also linked to signing Tyrann Mathieu, which would be another blow to the Chefs. Good news is that Gilmore has left Cincy without signing.
Indeed. The Raiders killed two birds with one blockbuster deal, gaining Adams and losing Hill from the division.
IMO, Butler is a bit on the fringe but not much unlike Jefferson and Thomas were last off-season when the Raiders signed them. Upside potential for sure. Perhaps Hankins may get another chance with the Raiders. He has been one of the most consistent players on defense for years.
If the Raiders were to sign Mathieu and/or Gilmore - which I don't know if they could afford with their cap - that would help solidify the secondary.
Raiders really loading up on depth. There are going to be some good battles for starting positions in training camp.
All signs are showing this is a step up from Gruden/Mayock.
It's going to be a humdinger of a season. This is the most excited I have been in March for the season to begin. As a Raider fan, or a football fan, every AFC west match up is going to be a barn burner and how can one not be excited about that?
The only thing, IMO, that can stop a very good year for the Raiders, is if McDaniel has not matured into a HC. He has a very good support staff and a good roster. This is probably the best all around,coaches/players, Raider team since Gruden1.
Looking at the draft, we have our first pick in the third round. I think this is where they beef up the O-line, and other positions. Here's who I am looking at in the third round on:
Trevor Pinning (OT, Northern Iowa). A lot of media have him in the first two rounds, but OT has a lot of depth this year, and that means this position drops. If Pinning were to drop to the Raiders in the 3rd, he's the guy they take.
Abraham Lucas (OT, Washington St)
Rasheed Walker (OT, Penn St)
Zion Johnson (OG, Boston College)
Jamaree Salyer (LG, Georgia)
Brandon Smith (OLB, Penn St). A true cover OLB.
Travis Jones (NT, Connecticut)
DeMarvin Leal (DT, TX A&M)
Dustin Crum (QB, Kent St) I really think he is a steal in the 4-5th round. He could be a guy who learns under Carr and takes over.
Tariq Woolen (CB, UTSA)
Carson Strong (QB, Nevada) Again, if McDaniels and Ziegler are true to their word, they are going after the best available player. This guy and Dustin Crum are the two most underrated QB's coming into the draft.
Arnold Ebiketie (DE/OLB, Penn St)
These are the mid-late round sleepers I'm watching, in no particular order. I think you know from previous posts, I'm real high on Crum and Carson Strong at the QB positions. These other names are equally strong. I don't see Pinning dropping past the second round, but I've been surprised before, and with this and OLB/DE and CB really deep; I think OLB/DE and CB are going to be the focus early in the draft; while offensive line drops. So it is a real possibility that Pinning drops. Tariq Woolen is another name I really like at CB, but again, if CB is one of the early focuses in the draft, I think he may go second or early 3rd, and the same with Ebiketie. Just my thoughts.
It doesn't appear that Zeigler/McDaniels will be able to do everything in one year. LB, OL and DBs are not fully developed on the roster. There's still time but we're mostly into 2nd tier free agency.
I am really concerned about the O-line. Unless Leatherwood had an epiphany and Parker is only a sub off the bench, we could be in a real pinch.
Everyone posting here knows Carr needs time in the pocket to be most effective (vision, checkdowns, accuracy, and ball security). I understand giving Leatherwood another chance, and perhaps coaching him up (with better coaches), but Parker has been given ample opportunity and he still sucks. We need a RT!
Still plenty of time. Just a current observation.
AFC West is off the charts most talented division in the NFL. It's gonna be crazy.
Every team has weaknesses, part of the cap world.
Goode is coming back, he was playing at a high level prior to his injury. He can play RT or RG. Miller is a pro bowler, Simpson showed he can be a starter at LG. James at C, is really good.
Leatherwood was thrown into a fire that he was not ready for. He was a LT in college, tried to make him a RT when he wasn't ready for it. Then moved to RG where he probably never played before, that was a desperation move because of the Goode/Incognito injuries. Many of Leatherwood's problems came from the mental part of the game, he was lost most of the time.
Hopefully, Leatherwood can have a reset and play at a better level this year. Change of coaches could help him a lot.
It seems the new management is good at identifying what they need and want, so far, they have earned the trust that it will be taken care of. They know Carr's history and what makes him at his best. The team seems to be in good hands.
I'll preface this by saying, I'm all-in with Zeigler and McDaniels, and I certainly don't fault them for Leatherwood... but there will come a time in the near future his performance (or failure) will rest with current regime.
Yes, every team has weakness, but you have to pick your battles wisely. Offensive line is crucial to Carr's success (and health).
Leatherwood played LT in college, which makes it even dumber that he was drafted so high by Gruden/Mayock to play RT. We all remember what happened to Donald Penn when the Raiders moved him to RT. Penn was an outstanding LT who flopped at RT. Stands to reason, footwork and angles are different and presumably awkward for anyone to make that switch. Try writing with your opposing hand.
I would hope the Raiders won't watch Leatherwood and/or Parker fail for another year without making a move. I did not see that Goode is coming back, or even that he's healthy.
There was some discussion here when the Oakland and Alameda County would not penny up to help the Raiders fund a new stadium. In many ways, some financial assistance (even tax abatements) would have been an economic boon for the community. Instead, they increased the Raiders' rent for the septic tank they were playing in, and then thought the Raiders ungrateful (suing them and the NFL) when they decided to follow the money to Vegas.
I'm not saying either path is right, but in an exact opposite approach, New York State and Erie County just agreed to fund $850M of the Bills new stadium in Orchard Park.
That's kind of how things work in New York. Otherwise, who in their right mind would come to here and do business in a tax heavy climate? The Bills will also save a boatload of money for not relocating. I think the relocation fee for Davis's move to Vegas cost him around $500M. Similar fees were levied to the Chargers and Rams.
Even when Mark Davis had other firms on board in funding the new stadium, and was asking for tax breaks, the City/County and State of Ca thumbed their nose at them. The Oakland A's franchise did the same, and took the City/County side and pushed the Raiders to the curb.
The A's have proposed a similar stadium plan/city walk that the Raiders did, and on the same land; asking for the same City/County/State tax breaks to bring in businesses that the Raiders did; and are now getting the same treatment. They want to move to Vegas; and I hope the Raiders prevent them from moving to Vegas.
I also feel that if a city/county/state uses tax payer monies to build a stadium, then they should set the price of tickets and parking, receive the majority of income to it in lieu of "rent" while team gets 10-20%, allow food companies to lease space to be the vendors within the stadium, and allow the taxpayers to name the venue. Teams would have little profit and sway with regards to the venue. Just my opinion.
Raiders have lost both Jefferson and Thomas from the interior of their defensive line. Both were significant contributors as part of a pretty decent DT rotation in 2021, and both signed with other teams.
That leaves the Raiders a little thin in the middle. I think Hankins is a FA too.
The difference between Oakland and N.Y. is that there are so many networks of wealthy people and political connections that its' not a problem to build a new stadium.
Here's the thing, the attitude of cities toward owners was supposed to be an almost unified agreement that cities would't fund these owners to build new stadiums anymore.
It was supposed to be a more get tough and not submit to these owners. Some city politicians did try and do that while others submitted but some owners had their own money and just needed help with area around the sites or they needed approval to build their own stadium.
The media that Raidernation listens to said that Oakland might be better off letting the Raiders go. The City refused to fund a new stadium of its' own.
But before you get on Oakland's case. Understand the NFL is not trying to promote loyalty to cities.
San Diego lost the Chargers because the NFL TOLD the Chargers owners to move. San Diego offered millions to the Chargers to rebuild their stadium but the Chargers left anyway.
That should tell fans something but of course the media will do the Jedi Mind Trick on you and have you supporting it.
The Chargers left because the NFL offered them more money and other things and TOLD them to. Despite all the criticism Oakland got or praise it was NEVER about a
it was about what the NFL wanted. 2 teams in L.A. and 1 in Vegas to make the league wealthier.
Yes, the Raiders were pressured and TOLD to move to L.V. not some great ingenius move by MD. Oakland let Raiders walk SD offered millions to keep their team. Both weren't negotiating after the league TOLD them to move!
Al and a few other owners stood up to the NFL and its' scams. Now, I don't think there's anyone who'd stand up to the league.
Media said don't pay Raiders and they left. Media didn't tell San Diego to not keep the Chargers. They offered Chargers money but they left.
This is the SAME media that tells us to support the new regimes that are taking us back to Raider glory the 3rd 1. Fans don't be conned.
Your first statement seems to compare city of Oakland to New York State. CA has some of the wealthiest people and one of the world's largest economies... larger than many countries.
What these cities have in common is that Buffalo and Oakland are both small markets for NFL franchises.
The new stadium in Orchard Park will be built on county-owned land, and the state's contribution will likely be bond-funded and paid back over time. The deal reportedly involves 30-year lease agreement with significant default penalties. Ironically, it was Davis's default in Oakland after moving back from LA that probably soured the city/county toward the Raiders.
Again, I'm not saying it's right or wrong to involve public funding, but these two negotiations were handled like night and day, with Oakland kicking the Raiders on their way out the door.
While the Raiders are steeped in tradition that began in Oakland and mostly ended in LA, the whole Vegas thing is kind of appealing too. The Death Star stadium, easy flights and the massive playground. However, if I could point to one thing that sucks about Vegas, it's that fans for opposing teams are just as likely to populate the stadium as Raiders fans on any given Sunday. Where's the home field advantage in that?
Part of the reason Oakland/Alameda said no to the new stadium was they were still paying of Mt. Davis in the outfield, that nobody bought tickets for. But the plan the Raiders had for a new 50k seat stadium was to pay off what was owed.
The problem is that Oakland is pricing people out of homes and out of the area to make it a wealthy city. They don't want the teams, they have other plans. The A's are about to find out the hard way too, and get booted to the curb. I was hoping they'd go to San Jose though. Still may happen. I am really hoping the Raiders block their move to Vegas and return the favor the A's did to move them out of Oakland.
The case of the Chargers was that San Diego wanted to give them a new stadium where Jack Murphy was, but the Murph was outside of city limits, and the Chargers wanted a new stadium within the city like the Padres got. For them it was a matter of location. The city would not bus people out to Murph, not a good look when the only people showing up for Chargers' games were from out of town trying to find a ride from the airport out of the city limits. The problem San Diego has is there is no room downtown. They could have fixed this problem by offering city transit out to the area where the Chargers were.
Raiders new HC talks to media about Raiders drafting best player instead of drafting for need, which is what got Gruden in trouble many times, e.g., reaching for players like Ferrell, Abram, Arnette and probably Leatherwood (we'll give him another year to prove that wrong).
Drafting for need creates tunnel vision and forces teams miss out on good players that could improve the team. And often times, the pick fails, leaving a void.
I never liked or agreed with the idea of building through the draft. It's cliche. Even if you could hit 3-4 players every draft, it would take years. With free agency and today's contracts, modern NFL doesn't give teams that luxury.
On this approach alone, McDaniels and Zeigler are light years ahead of Gruden and Mayock.
The core of the team needs to be drafted players ex:, Carr, Jacobs, o-line, Renfro, Waller added by taking him off practice squad, Tae by trade for draft picks.
Crosby, Hobbs, 2-3 other dB's.
If the Raiders would have hit on multiple other 1st round picks, the team would be built and would have a very solid core that would have been built through the draft.
Then, a few Free Agents to compliment the core.
Drafting is the key, in a cap world, to creating a strong team for years to come. Those who draft poorly, don't improve over time. Free Agents should be used to enhance the core, not create it.
Gruden would have been seen in a better light if he had hit on the top draft picks he had to work with. Even at that, the team he was building was getting closer to where they need to be. He did it mainly by drafting and by having a franchise QB in place when he was hired.
"Free Agents should be used to enhance the core, not create it."
No disrespect but you may have missed the point. Of course teams rely on drafted players which they build around but this is a different and, IMO, better approach to drafting.
New regime doesn't want to go into the draft with needs that force them into poor decision-making. They are hoping to draft the best available player and improve the team that way. Those players eventually become the core around which you sign free agents.
Players you mentioned follow this pattern. Carr was drafted in the second round and, arguably, the best player available (coming off a 50-TD season, mostly to DeVante Adams!). Renfrow in 3rd? What a steal. Waller was not drafted by the Raiders. Crosby was what, a 4th round pick?
Again, you can perhaps strike a balance with need but the Raiders, under Gruden and others, have too often reached too far for need and badly hurt the team's progression. It would be staggering to see a list of consensus best players the Raiders have passed up to draft for need, sometimes reaching for players out of desperation.
I much prefer this new approach... but we still need to see new mgt make it work.
Not to state the obvious, but I guess we already see a different approach to drafting at work. The Raiders just traded their 1st and 2nd picks in 2022 to acquire Adams. If the gold standard was to keep those picks and draft core players, we would have done that.
Instead, acquiring Adams just supercharged the entire Raiders Nation.
If you can use draft picks to enhance the team like they did, of course you do it. Tae is a known commodity, while drafting isn't. If the Raiders didn't have the young core and in a position to win now, then using the picks would probably be the right move. Depends on where the team is in comparison to the others, like the rest of the AFC West.
It's not written in stone, but when the team was in rebuild mode, you definitely build through the draft. When there is enough talent, then it gives more options on what to do in Free Agency and the draft. Building in stages and different strategies used throughout the process.
If Gruden hits on his top picks, the Raiders would be in great shape right now, whether he picked for need or not, he needed to hit on them. That capital could have been used through trade or whatever to get players they needed. Missing on those picks slowed the rebuild and it's probably why that regime is gone. That and some supposed emails.
The Raiders draft approach and missteps are so much bigger than Gruden. Raiders historically have avoided consensus best players early in the draft and reached for need positions often not even taking the best player at that position, presumably, believing they are smarter than the rest of the NFL.
It's not an accident or just coincidence. Gruden was emblematic of a larger problem.
To Mark Davis's credit, he may have just ended that trend. Year 1 of the Ziegler/McDaniels regime, we have Davante Adams, instant WR1.
the history of the Raiders drafting has been bad for a long time. Bad drafting, means bad team.
So much goes into why the Raiders have been so bad in the front office for so long. Most Raider fans know why they haven't done well over the years. It would seem, finally, that Mark has the team in a good position to stop that trend.
I mentioned Gruden because he was the last regime and IMO, he had the team going in the right direction. His rebuild could have been completed if he had hit on most of the high draft picks he had. Each regime approaches the draft differently, doesn't seem each regime had a Raider handbook on how to mess up a draft. It was incompetence in the front office because the office was incompetent, hopefully, it has changed.
Given the epic failure that has followed the Raiders, it's possible past regimes did have a handbook on how to mess up. Most teams couldn't try to be that bad.
Gruden's slow-motion approach was like water torture.
And let's not kid ourselves, Raiders were not loaded for bear in the 2021 season. They won several games by the skin on their teeth, including overtime games, and needed Carr to win 6 games on his final drives. There has to be a degree of concern that those types of wins are unsustainable.
They lost Ruggs and Arnette, two of Gruden's signature first round picks, and the offensive line was in the bottom five of the league.
Fast forward, there is still significant concern that the OL has not been properly addressed. Re-signing Brandon Parker for $3.5M is a massive headscratcher. Ironically, he's coming off his best year as a pro during which he was ranked among the worst OTs in the league. Something like 8 sacks and double-digit penalties in less than a full season of action. Leatherwood's numbers in these areas are worse.
We have to keep in mind that the HC was tossed by the league and their #1 WR killed someone, along with the Arnette fiasco. It shows more to their character that they were even in the playoff hunt. I would bet that not many teams could pull off what the Raiders did last season.
The O-line was playing much better by the end of the year, with Good coming back, the O-line is pretty much set. RT needs an upgrade and hopefully Leatherwood can fill there, but it doesn't look like that is likely.
If the D can become avg or a little above, there would be a lot less close games for Carr to have to come back in. The D has been the achilles heel of the team for decades. Carr has always had to out score other teams, imagine, a D that can stop the other team on 4th/3rd downs. It's been way too long since we could look at a Raider D and know they will make the stop. It would take a lot of pressure off of Carr, mentally.
IMO, you can point to a dozen or more reasons why the Raiders didn't do better, and we can all pat them on the back for doing as well as they did. But the simple fact remains, they have not succeeded in any material way since their last super bowl.
To borrower your words, the Raiders have the handbook for failure, and they've not been afraid to use it.
While the defense actually put up some good numbers last year, e.g., placing in the top half of the league in yardage allowed, they also placed among the worst in scoring defense. Bradley's defense is too soft, and I'm glad to see it leave. Raiders were among the teams blitzing the least. IMO, red zone defense and blitzing should go hand-in-hand.
Graham is not a blitz guy either, but he's not afraid to blitz, and he will disguise coverages much better that Bradley.
Raiders bringing back Hankins. After losing Jefferson and Thomas, it's good they kept Hankins. He's still the best run stuffer the Raiders have. He sheds blocks and gets to the ball carrier... a much needed skill.
Yes, that is a very obvious fact.
The Raiders have been a unique organization, going back to it's beginnings. The Front Office did things their way up until 2011. We can all go over what happened and why it happened, leading up to that point, but why bother?
Mark then took over the team. Mark took a while to get the team back to relevance. He was new to the being an owner, candidates for the jobs below Mark, were not breaking down the door to join the Raiders at that time. Situation was very unstable, so Mark had to hire lower tier management because of it.
It looks as though Mark has climbed that mountain and now has a very stable org with good management running it. 1st, you need to hire good people to run the team, then, you get the best coaches and then you get the best players and then, you just win baby.
I respectfully disagree. IMO, Davis had everything at his disposal. What GMs turned down an opportunity to take over the storied Raiders organization with a promise of complete autonomy?
In a nutshell, Davis got bad advice and hired Reggie McKenzie. That's where the process initially broke down. McKenzie hired Dennis Allen, who clearly was not ready to be a HC.
After watching many failures, Davis eventually took charge and hired Del Rio - who flamed out - then Gruden, which quickly led to McKenzie's departure. Gruden and Mayock were underwhelming at best, and Gruden's email scandal led to the incredible mulligan that allowed Davis to again reset and hire Zeigler and McDaniels.
And here we are! Still with no guaranty that the team will succeed. Yet, very refreshed.
What GM/HC would want to join a team that was a complete mess and had been for years prior? And I would like to see the part in McKenzie's contract that said he had complete autonomy?
With a rookie owner who nobody knew about? The Raiders were very far away from being the storied franchise.
Dennis Allen has made his way into being a very respectable coach. He was hardly ready to be a coordinator, much less a HC. McKenzie was hired at the advise of J.Madden and R.Wolf. Probably because Mark wasn't getting any bites on hiring a GM.
JDR shows how desperate the Raiders were in trying to secure a decent HC. Again, what good HC would go into a mess like the Raiders were in that time? Mark had to pay huge bucks to Gruden, just to get a name that could elevate the state of the franchise. Gruden came in and rolled the the whole roster over again, except for Carr. The Raiders now had a new stadium, some good talent and look what's happened. Mark was able to attract, what appears to be, a good GM and HC, along with good A.C's hired. Now we see players wanting to play for the Raiders again.
The Raiders were lower than an expansion team when Mark took over. A very poor stadium, a poor roster and an Owner who said he knows that he didn't know. Common sense would tell us that anybody worth their salt, would not touch the Oakland Raiders at that time.
Dude, please check your facts.
Dennis Allen was a successful coordinator when he joined the Raiders. He led a strong D unit in Denver when the Raiders hired him. I agree he wasn't ready to be HC, that's on McKenzie.
The Raiders were 8-8 the year Al passed away, coming off another 8-8 season. Not sure how that makes them "lower than an expansion team...." It's the Raiders we're talking about, right?
I can name at least a half dozen teams that went from 2-4 wins to 10-12 wins in one season.
As a rule, the Raiders never paid market value for a top tier HC. Mark Davis tried with Gruden, but that arrangement turned out to be one-sided... Gruden getting paid.
Back on topic, if you were a Raiders fan during that time period, you would know McKenzie was in charge. Didn't Mark Davis tell the world he didn't know what he was doing? Who do you think was in charge? McKenzie hired Allen. He hired all scouts, including his brother, and he controlled front office personnel. He probably had last word on Dennis Allen's staff as well. What roll do you believe Mark Davis played in all that?
Finally, calling something a "mess" is relative. Not many GM/HC job openings in the NFL become available without a need. Suggesting nobody in their right mind would work for the Raiders is absurd on its face, IMO.
Allen coached one year as a DC in Denver before he became HC for the Raiders. Like I said, he was hardly ready to be a coordinator, let alone a HC. McKenzie could only get someone of Allen's caliber at the time. Sounds like common sense to me.
Expansion team, the whole front office had to be redone (had not one computer), the scouting system had to be redone, the coaches had to be replaced, the stadium was a joke and the roster was nothing but mediocre. Lower than expansion team because the roster was capped out and no one wanted to touch Oakland. It took McKenzie a while to get the cap back under control.If coaches and players were banging down the wall to play for the Raiders at this time, common sense says no.
Al Davis never paid top dollar for a HC, Mark was willing, he had to convince Gruden to take the job and pay him 10 mill a year. You are trying to mix Mark's tenure with Al's, they are completely different.
All I asked to see, in McKenzie's contract, where it said he had complete autonomy. Conjecture isn't fact.
I didn't just call it a mess, I outlined why it was a mess, maybe you missed it.
Again, I disagree. You speak like you were in the front office. I argue the Raiders and McKenzie had plenty of resources at their disposal, perhaps more than other teams in similar transition, given the Raiders storied history (and the fact that AL would no longer be micro-managing the team). Davis, via his advisors, and McKenzie simply made bad decisions. Suggesting otherwise is a copout, IMO.
Even if the first year or two of the McKenzie regime had limitations, how do you explain the other 16-17 years?
Everything McKenzie did was on the cheap, to save the org money and correct the salary cap issues the Raiders were experiencing at that time. Saying Mark Davis was willing to pay top dollar because he paid Gruden 10M a year is more than a decade removed from the era you are speaking about. That's after Davis would have learned not paying head coaches was part of the problem.
The Raiders have been stuck at the bottom of the NFL for almost 20 years. That's an entire generation.
I think when you look at Mark Davis' tenure, it has all built to the momentum we are experiencing now. He has definitely, and quickly, learned valuable lessons. McKenzie was the guy he brought in to help with the salary cap disaster that he was left with, and to create a foundation to build on. McKenzie's first year was cash strapped because of the dead monies from the contracts that were out of whack. McKenzie built a solid foundation of players in the draft (then) of: Mack, Carr, Gabe Jackson, Amari Cooper, and a few others. Added some flavor of outstanding veteran players like Kelechi Osemele, Donald Penn, Rodney Hudson, Michael Crabtree, etc. He, Del Rio, and Musgrave took this group to 12-4 in 2016, and then Carr broke his leg. I truly believe that the Raiders could have gone to the Super Bowl and won that year.
It was during the offseason of 2016 going into 2017 year, that Mark Davis got a verbal commitment from Jon Gruden to come back as the coach. The details would be hammered out through the 2017 year. I believe this is the reason Musgrave did not re-negotiate and return to the Raiders. Del Rio and Gruden share the same agent, and it was well known in the organization that if Mark could get Gruden, everyone would be shown the door. Which is exactly what happened.
Gruden rid of key players, and players who didn't fit his system, and we spent 4 season "rebuilding" a team that didn't need to be rebuilt when Gruden took over. Mayock was hired to balance Gruden in some areas. Gruden went and got guys that he wanted, like Antonio Clown; and the majority of Gruden's moves blew up in his face. Mayock made some mistakes as a first time GM, but overall did some great things for the organization. He admitted in an article last week that he was let go because of his ties to Gruden. Gruden resigned, btw, and wasn't let go or forced out by the League. He was about to be forced out by the League, but didn't want the drama, so he resigned. I think he winds up in a college gig somewhere.
All of this led to the fact that Mark Davis recognizes the Raiders don't need another rebuild; the Raiders can win now; but it is going to take an extraordinary front office and coaching staff. So he went out and hired the extraordinary front office and coaching staff. He values the relationships he has with people, and he recognized that some of these people took advantage of him; and now he is going out and doing things his way. This is Mark Davis' prints on this team right now. Not McKenzie's, not Gruden's; but his. He realized that if he wants to win and do things the right way, he must trust himself. Yes, get the advice of other trusted people, but don't make your decision solely based on their advice.
I believe the Raiders are going to be a perennial team this next season. JUST WIN, BABY!
If MD DIDN'T really make the decision to hire Reggie why are you still saying it was a great plan.
No it wasn't! It was a mess that didn't have to be. All Reggie had to do was allow the Raiders to prove themselves. He could've hired Allen as an assistant and if Hue didn't win make Allen HC.
MD hired Del Rio? Oh, yea, what did he know about Del Rio?
So, Al lost his touch and was so senile and dysfunctional he couldn't make decisions?But guys like Reggie, Mayock and Zeigler can do a better job even if they don't?
You are very unforgiving of Al but you forgave McDaniels for his Broncos' years.
And excuse me? Al's Raiders DIDN'T have good players!? Ummmm......dude, The Raiders had solid players at every position including QB for a few years. They had more than enough talent to have an average game manager QB and go to the SB.
1. top running game.
2. top 5 DL
3. decent receiving corps
4. outstanding secondary
5 decent O-line
6. the best STs' in the NFL
7. Lots of speed, size and athleticism to add more to the teams' plans.
8. the best FB in the NFL
Now, some of those elite teams were never this loaded but won. If less talented teams were winning then the Raiders should've been in the SB a few more times. Now, PARITY is supposed to help mediocre-average teams win more if not go to the playoffs. It seems they got bad but had more talent than most teams. So why didn't they win?
Whatever was the problem it wasn't personnel.
Its seems things that are supposed to work for all teams don't work for the Raiders. Nobody ever asks why that is?
Looks like Carr has a backup. If Carr goes down, Raiders will be in trouble. No cap space for a Mariota type. Raiders really need a RT, maybe they trade up and grab one early in the draft, maybe not.
Nate 75, I agree with what you wrote, except for the declaring of the new regime as being extraordinary, we really don't know that yet.
Anon,
While I agree that they have to go prove that they are extraordinary, what I meant by my statement is that MD did something that the Raiders have never done, and that in itself is extraordinary; and that's what makes these hires in themselves extraordinary.
"If MD DIDN'T really make the decision to hire Reggie why are you still saying it was a great plan."
It may not have succeeded in Super Bowl rings; but what Reggie McKenzie did wasn't a complete failure either. At that time it was what the Raiders needed. Reggie is a cap-whiz! He single-handedly helped the Raiders out of a messy cap situation, and lay a foundation for the Raiders to build on. A foundation that Davis thought Gruden would be able to build. MD was fortunate to get out of Gruden's contract with his resignation over the Washington scandal and put the Raiders on a solid move forward. We all know Gruden was the scapegoat for Snyder (who was behind the leak); but the Raiders are better for it. And the way MD has spoken about it after the hiring of Ziegler and McDaniels; it seems he knew the Raiders weren't going anywhere with Gruden because Gruden wasn't taking care of the details; and for that matter, neither was Mayock. I think Mayock is a smart enough guy to know and learn from that, Gruden not so much.
Ummmm.......Why is it that the new Raiders from other regimes just don't have it anymore?
When they get here you're exited before they do a thing- you say they're gonna be the 1s' to take us back to glory.
When they start slow you say keep giving them more time.
When they win a few games, upset an elite team, its' we're going to the playoffs when they lose its' give'em a few years when they lose and make bad draft picks its' they weren't that good to start with!
Its funny how suddenly Gruden/ Mayock, Bradley, Reggie, Del Rio and others just didn't have it.
After 10 years nobody has it like the next guy(regime)!
McDaniel/ Zeigler-? Signed good players but also gave away 1st and 2nd picks to Packers for Pro Bowl WR who may be overrated. Been to the SB a lot with Brady. Took Broncos to the playoffs and beat much better Raiders team(knocked out of playoffs) and Steelers teams(in playoffs). Fired by Broncos. Questionable signings for back up QB.
Reggie/ Allen/ Del Rio- 1 playoff trip. Whiffed on a lot of draft picks. Drafted some good-outstanding players(Mack, Carr, G. Jackson, Copper) and signed some very good UDFA players. Defenses got much worse in Reggie's era. Totally messed up with TP2. refused to keep some of the best players in NFL(M. Bush, D. Bryant, J. Velhldeer, T. Kelly, D. Moore, S. Wisnewski), had outstanding O-line '16-'17.
Gruden/ Mayock- reached for some overrated players, whiffed on many 1st round picks, drafted some outstanding players(Crosby, Jacobs, Renfroe). Hired good assistants(Bradley). traded outstanding key players for high picks. Traded picks to the Steelers but didn't have success with them.
Got fired for some very questionable e-mails. Built a playoff team and went to playoffs.
Al('00-'11) with Gruden built a top 3 AFC team. Went to playoffs 3 times. Eliminated twice by strange or bad calls. drafted some of the best players in the NFL(C-Bass/ Routt/ Nnamdi/ Vehldeer/ Porter/ Lechler, had maybe the best STs in NFL for 12 years, signed some of the best FA players in NFL history(Rice, Gannon, Armstrong, Sapp)
Traded for some of the best players in the NFL(Moss, Wimbley). Had talent to win but suddenly stopped. Had some of the best assistants in the NFL(Harbaugh, Shaw, R. Ryan, Jackson) yet could't win for 9 years.
* I like how these guys started signing players but not the Adams trade /is it supposed to make Carr better? Isn't that 1 of the things media claims ruined Al's Raiders- making big trades with high draft picks? Isn't there some good-star free agent WRs' out there?
I thought that was how the old eras did things. The Pats wouldn't give up 2 high picks for a WR, yet its' o.k. for the Pats' guys to do it.
I here strange things some in Raidernation feel these were tough but important steps. That Reggie was the dismantling man Gruden was the foundation builder and now, the Pats' guys are the 1s' to take Raiders back to glory.
So, these guys know more about QBs' than Gruden? They, as a duo are better than Reggie/ Del Rio?
The came from a dynasty but are they better than Gruden? Why did MD pick them and BTW why is this an upgrade over Gruden/ Mayock?
Can they use what they learned from Bellicheck and will it work without him/ Brady?
Will they find play makers in the draft are they good personnel guys? Wasn't Reggie from a winning system? wasn't he supposed to be a good personnel guy?
* So you want to bring in a guy who knocked you out of the playoffs because he came from a winning system after supporting getting rid of a guy who beat you in the SB?
This is the 3rd new regime and media keeps telling us how much better the team will be. Maybe they have good ideas but Raidernation should take time before supporting their plans and also tell them to use some of Al's ideas. After 3 regimes Raidernation should make them wait for the fans' support.
"After 10 years nobody has it like the next guy(regime)!"
Looks like you might have lost track of time. Isn't it closer to 20 years, but who's counting?
The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. Don't you know that?
No I was being funny. I was saying Raidernation probably thinks the next regime is going to do better if not
20 years? you can only mean
I'm defending Al's era. I'm saying and should've told you guys/ that.
I'm not too happy or crazy about the Reggie and Gruden regimes.
Al was 9 years, Reggie 5 years, Gruden/ Mayock 4 years.
I think Al's regime in that slump was a strange mix of talent, outstanding assistants and an aging legend who still knew football against media/ NFL's claim
stuck in the past, dysfunctional owner who won't let others take over and meddles, mediocre taletn(??), and a terrible cap situation.
between ('99-'11):
Al managed the cap and his front office people helped him,
Al worked with NFLPA boss Gene Upshaw
Al was suing the Bucs for what he felt was copy right issues.
Al was talking to media about some of the NFL office and owners with some strange and accusations
Al upset the owners by signing vets and rookies to big contracts that forced them to pay players more.
Al upset the NFL/ owners by voting against the new CBA
Al upset the NFL/ owners by not bringing in a billionaire, group or corporation into the team as co-owners so the team could be more valuable.
While the fans and media attacked Al about his dysfunction and the system he used.
What media said('03-'11)
M: They had no talent
fact: DMAC, Nnamdi, Carlisle, Newberry, Sapp, Lechler and Burgess.
M: They(Al) had no good QBs:
fact: K. Collins(SB vet), J. Campbell, A. Brooks and C. Palmer.
M: Worst team in the NFL:
???? there are many teams that lose but
1. the players are well paid
2. the coaches seem to be happy
3.
M: Its' because he refuses to bring in a GM:
fact: he did hire Allen as assistant GM but he traded him to Bucs with Gruden.
M: The Raiders were in a salary cap mess when Reggie came.
fact: BUT- Al managed that cap, never getting in trouble for being over it. The guys he ruined the cap for were pro bowlers or very good. He could manage the cap and spend on his players he wanted to.
Reggie fixed the cap and didn't spend on expensive star free agents and had a cheap roster and the Raiders still lost and got worse at most positions.
You got NFL/ media zapped- Jedi Mind Trick to believe after years of watching Dallas and Al that some idea that the model franchises that don't really spend a lot and use high character, touch, passionate players with maybe a few freakish athletes and 1-2 expensive star players will win over talent loaded teams that spend.
Oh really? KC is just a small example of the kind of system Al used because Reid is only going to go so far in that direction.
He(Reid) drafts for size, speed and athleticism and will spend on expensive free agents and KC wins- the Cowboys and 49ers sometimes do too not like the Pats though.
But nobody says they need to get average- high character players and release a lot of young players. Why do they go to the playoff if they basically do some of the things Al did? Why didn't Reggie get us to the playoffs more than once?
Yea, bad decisions, Gannon retired and Al's salary cap mess.
Carr gets the extension. Mark must have a lot of money now. He is throwing it around like candy.
Remember the days when fans said the Raiders couldn't afford to pay big contracts? That no longer seems to be the case.
It would seem that the Raiders are a very stable org that is getting better every year. Getting a feeling that the team is going to be good for at least a few years now. Would sure be something if the Raiders became a top team for many years, like the old days.
Carr's extension, announced by his nephews, is a discount; which again shows that he doesn't think of himself as bigger than the team and is a true leader. He has a no trade clause in his contract as well, so he is the future QB for awhile. Not sure if this affects the cap this year because the extension is beyond this season. Waller, Renfrow, and Jacobs are next, I believe; though there is a report on twitter that says the Raiders are more than likely not to extend Ferrell, Abram, and Jacobs. Jacobs has also said that he has a time-frame around his football career; so I don't know if that will factor in. I'm excited.
Raiders already picked up their option on Jacobs' contract.
Carr will get a small raise in 2022 but, overall, his contract is low compared to other recently signed QBs. It's arguable that Carr still has something to prove in this league. He has yet to win a playoff game in his career.
But look what happened to Matthew Stafford. He went from being a perennial loser on the Lions to winning the Super Bowl for the Rams.
As for paying 'big contracts' and salary cap, IMO, that's blown way out of proportion. Davis never had any problem staying within the cap. And the Raiders could have easily signed Mack. Are you kidding... look what they just did to sign Crosby, Carr, Jones and Adams, while also optioning Jacobs and signing many other players. Give me a break!
Raiders managed to sign arguably the best free agent players in 2022 on offense and defense. I think they still have $20M clearing after June 1st, with no first or second round draft picks to pay.
They still have money to spend.
Carr and Adams history together:
Carr and Adams were teammates at Fresno State, with Adams catching 233 passes for 3,031 yards with 38 touchdowns in their two shared seasons from 2012-2013.
38 TDs in two seasons!
Carr on throwing to Adams now:
‘Honestly, it was like riding a bike.’ Every ball is right here and the guy is so freakishly talented, he makes me look better than I actually am."
Carr's contract is setup to create approx. 20 million more in cap space this year. After the June cuts, Raiders will be 45 million under the cap. Looks like the Raiders have a really good chance of having a really good year. If there is a good RT after the cuts, Raiders will have plenty of cash to entice him. A good LB and a DB would set the team up for a very special year.
Raiders past drafts put into context. Since Davis, Raiders have second worst re-sign rate of draft picks in the NFL, and some of those players didn't deserve to be re-signed.
https://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/320461/las-vegas-raiders-draft-misses-have-new-regime-behind-silver-and-black-8-ball
Related draft story... new method of picking best player as opposed to need.
https://www.silverandblackpride.com/2022/4/22/23035925/raiders-draft-2022-best-player
I am loving that we don't have a pick until the third round because we have Davante Adams! I love that Derek Carr has said that he would rather not trade for Deebo because that money should be used to re-sign Waller and Renfrow.
So, who should the Raiders look at in the draft. I usually have 2 or three of these by now, but I've been buried with work stuff, and quite frankly, we don't have a pick until the 3rd round; and I know they are not done with Free Agency. So, here are my thoughts about players we should target that should start from day one and do well, and/or are going to be great in the long run.
3rd Round #86
No brainer pick: Tariq Woolen (CB, UT-San Antonio). This kid is a stud, and would be the steal of the draft if he's still on the board. Quite frankly, it wouldn't surprise me if he was selected in the 2nd round; but most "Mock Drafters" have him in the 3rd.
Other players to watch:
Arnold Ebiketie (OLB, Penn St)
Travis Jones (NT, UConn)
Martin Emerson (CB, Mississippi St)
Phidarian Mathis (NT, Alabama)
Round 4: #126
Carson Strong (QB, Nevada) Like Tariq Woolen, he may not be on the board here, but most mock drafts have him here. If he's there, he will be the pick
Other Names:
Isaiah Spiller (RB, TX A&M)
Rasheed Walker (RT, Penn St)
Abraham Lucas (RT, Washington St)
Otito Ogbonnia (NT, UCLA)
Round 5: #164 (from NE)
Nick Grant (S, Virginia) I'm looking at undersized OLB's, and oversized Safeties and CBs in these later rounds to help with the hybrid Nickel. Grant fits this, and because of how the draft is expected to play out, Safety is a position that will be overlooked. Grant is a top 3 round talent that I feel is going to slide.
Other Names:
Derion Kendrick (CB, Georgia) another name I like here, a big CB that can play the slot like an OLB; which is an area I think we need if McDaniels wants to play a hybrid nickel defense. Then Big CB's, Safeties, and undersize OLB's are what to watch for in these later rounds.
Jamaree Salyer (OG, Georgia)
Marquan McCall (NT, Kentucky)
Chad Muma (ILB, Wyoming)
Round 5: #165
Dylan Parham (RT/RG/C, Memphis) I really like this pick here. Dylan is an all around interior lineman and can play anywhere. Reminds me of Denzelle Good.
Other names:
Spencer Burford (OG, UT San Antonio) another under the radar lineman that will be great depth, and a potential starter in a few years. Reminds me of Jon Feliciano.
Dustin Crum (QB, Kent St) if the Raiders do not get Carson Strong, I think they steal the draft with Crum. I really like this kid. He reminds me of a young Steve McNair (except white) and has a lot of upside. With Carr getting a 4 year extension, this would really help Crum in the back up spot to learn and grow. I want this to happen so bad, I can taste it.
DeAngelo Malone (OLB/DE, Western Kentucky)
Cam Taylor-Britt (CB, Nebraska)
Round 7: #227 (from CAR):
Names to watch:
Zyon McCollum (CB, Sam Houston St) this guy is 6'2", 202 lbs, with 50 tackles, 3 INTs, and 8 pass defenses. He has good speed with a 4.33 40.
Smoke Monday (S, Auburn). First, what a great name. 6'2", 199 lbs, 4.52 40 dash, 59 tackles, 1 interception, 5 Pass defenses last season.
Sterling Weatherford (S, Miami, OH) He is 6'3", 230 lbs, 66 tackles, 2 INTs, and 4 pass defenses. He has a 4.75 40 dash. Good for TE coverage in a hybrid Nickel.
Keidron Smith (CB, Ole Miss) 6'2", 198 lbs, 4.5 40 dash, 65 tackles, 2 INTs, 3 pass defenses
Tycen Anderson (S, Toledo) 6'2", 204 lbs, 4.36 40 dash.
Gregory Junior (CB, Ouachita) 5'11", 202 lbs, 4.53 40 dash.
Nate, I'm the opposite. I hate that we don't have a pick until the 3rd round. I'd much rather the Raiders have their cake and eat it too.
I believe the Raiders could do some damage (in a good way) in the middle to late rounds, Mike Mayock style, but I'd also be fine with them trading their remaining 2022 draft picks to get back into the 2nd, or even the 1st round if an opportunity to get a special player presented itself.
Player contracts, salary caps, free agency, etc. all play huge roles in windows of opportunity. That's what made watching Gruden's slow progression so painful. In today's NFL, nobody deserves five years to turn around a program. That spans beyond a typical rookie contract, longer than an average vet contract, and 2x longer than the NFL average player career.
It might take McDaniels a year to truly get his feet planted but it really shouldn't take more than that. By Year 2, this team should be in full contention mode, IMO.
As we know, the Raiders have several key players whose contracts expire next year. However, as mentioned by someone above in this thread, the Raiders stand to have as much as $45M this year after June 1. They should spend that money this year and immediately upgrade weak positions, e.g., guard, RT, and LB.
I don't know how we can go into this season with anything but high expectation. McDaniels had to know coming in that he has very little margin for error. By extension, I don't think the Raiders should be done shooting the moon. I say, keep firing until you run out of ammo.
This year represents the first time in what seems like forever that the Raiders are actually taking a different approach. 2022 is the Raiders' "stop the insanity" tour.
NY said, "Nate, I'm the opposite. I hate that we don't have a pick until the 3rd round. I'd much rather the Raiders have their cake and eat it too."
I certainly understand that sentiment too; but I recently read an article where a NFL scout said that only 15 players in this year's draft would be considered true 1st rounders in any other draft of recent history. So, unless the Raiders can get into the top 15 without having to break the bank, then yes, I agree to getting back into the first 2 rounds. That is not to say that this draft is lacking talent, however. I think this draft is steeped with talent and hidden gems. I believe it is so deep that 3rd-5th round talent will still be available in the 7th round.
However, a recent report that the Packers are inquiring about Waller for the Raiders to get back into the first round is a false narrative. While true, the Packers have inquired about Waller, they did so during the Davante Adams trade. Waller isn't going anywhere, unless he doesn't re-sign with the Raiders. I think there are some great value in the later rounds wrt O-line and CB/OLB for hybrid nickel; as I have shown in my last post. I'm really excited about where the Raiders are concerning the draft, because of the depth of talent in this draft. If we miss on one in the early rounds, they can definitely replace with in the later rounds. I'm not sure we can say that about any other draft.
"If we miss on one in the early rounds, they can definitely replace with in the later rounds. I'm not sure we can say that about any other draft."
Again, I respectfully take the opposite side. I think Raiders drafts through the Gruden/Mayock era prove they could (and did) miss early in drafts but made up for it in later rounds. That was the MO of Gruden/Mayock.
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Philon might be going to the Colts. Gus Bradley has effectively poached the Raiders defense since leaving, just like he did the Chargers the year he came to LV. Players like the guy, but his ineffectiveness in the red zone was on full display last year. Apparently, he doesn't know what plays to call, or even how to play red zone defense. That was a problem for the Raiders last year and, presumably, a problem for the Chargers prior to that, and likely a problem for the Colts this year.
Meanwhile, Philon was lights out against his former team, the Chargers, before he was injured and had to miss the Raiders playoff game against the Bengals. If he's healthy (or will be by season start), the Raiders should bring him back. He was getting to the QB, defending passes and shedding blocks to make tackles. That's all you can ask of an interior lineman... and that's obviously what Bradley saw in him.
I follow Philon on Twitter. He is recovering from surgery, an infection, and another surgery; and is now rehabbing. He has been tweeting that he hopes to be back in Raider Nation as recently as April 17th. But I know the rehab/injury has been the setback for contract talk.
NY, I can see the Raiders getting back into the 2nd Round, but not sure about the 1st; it would depend on what they would have to give up. We will see. Happy Draft Day, and JUST WIN, BABY!
Philon is talking to the Colts, so not sure playing for the Raiders is absolute.
If they want 1st round bad enough, they can swap a 1st next year with one or two other picks this year or next year. There are options - possibly opportunities - to get into the 1st.
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