One Postgame Take
Going for two with more than four minutes left rather than tying it up. Leaving Kelce COMPLETELY UNGUARDED after he's already burned you for three touchdowns. Wide receivers running into each other on the last play. And now Davante Adams is going to get suspended for shoving a cameraman to the ground afterward.
McDaniels is getting perilously close to Nathaniel Hackett territory. The wheels are coming OFF right now. On the one hand, this was a great game: competitive, close, hard fought. But on the other hand, it was a winnable game that came down to a loss of composure that has now spilled over into the postgame with Davante Adams.
A great game but a terrible loss. This could get real ugly real soon.
posted by Raider Take at 8:50 PM
46 Comments:
Raiders almost pulled it off, once again, Raider fans see a big lead turn to dust and have to endure another heart breaking loss.
Adams just kind of reacted to a camera guy running right in front of him, from left to right. It didn't look malicious, it looked like a dumb camera man not looking to where he was going, Adams just reacted IMO, he probably didn't see the guy coming.
Gut wrenching loss, but wasn't expecting it to be such a close game. So the Raiders did better than what many expected. But silver linings don't get a team into the playoffs.
Team seems to be as inconsistent as the coaching. Waller is out again, almost feels like he is taking the money and running? Renfrow is having a year from hell.
Playoffs is a dream, real shame, was really looking forward to this year and it's not what many expected. Mark Davis must be feeling some regret at this point, it's looking once again, that McDaniel is not a HC.
I have no problem with going for the win. Raiders are a very good 1-4 football team. I still think they are capable of running off 5 or 6 wins in a row. They can still get back in it.
But yeah, talk is cheap. Gotta stop saying "bad break, bad call, bad luck". Season is not over, but Raiders walking a razor thin line right now. Gut check time !
Ugh! This one was a headscratcher for me. After having success playing aggressive defense the entire first half, Graham played soft coverage (3-man rush) with only seconds remaining in the half and it cost the Raiders 3 points. That could have been the difference in the game.
The 2-pt try? WTF? The Chiefs had just given the Raiders a gift by missing their 2-pt conversion, leaving a 7-pt differential. Why would McDaniels give it back? I get that it's a noisy road game, but the Raiders D was going to have to stop the Chiefs no matter what, and they did!
The collision play at the end was a terrible play call. Aside from the crossing patterns, McDaniels got greedy and was expecting lightning to strike 3x with Adams' magical TDs. On another note, that's the difference between Spagnuola defense and a Graham defense. The Chiefs stayed aggressive and disrupted that play at the LOS.
Raiders should have won this game. I think McDaniels and his coaches - not the players - are the ones who have to learn to win, because Carr and the Raiders were winning these games last year. That's four close (all winnable!) games the Raiders have lost so far.
Just like the AZ gane, this one is gonna sting for a while.
PS. The cameraman was in the wrong place at the wrong time, just like Rudy.
I understand trying to go for the win, but not with 4-5 minutes left in the game. You tie the game, and if we had done that, we could have gone for the win in overtime. But there was so much more than that, but that failed 2 point conversion put the nail in.
Letting a 17 point lead go, and allowing the Chiefs to score 24 unanswered points, because you fall to mediocre play calls on offense is deplorable. Coming out in the second half after the Chiefs made it 20-17, and then get 2 massive penalties is also deplorable. Jacobs was tearing the Chiefs D up, and with a 17 point lead, you go to passing plays? Come on man, be smarter, give the D rest, and FEED JACOBS!
Renfrow was not supposed to cut that way, he was supposed to cut inside to take the safety away; and he does that more often than not. But he was thinking if it was thrown to him, he was going to need to get out of bounds, so he jumped his route, went outside, and slammed into Adams. Carr and Adams was pissed too! STAY WITHIN YOUR ASSIGNMENTS!
Crosby balled out, 2 sacks 5 Tackles for Loss, but the rest of the D-Line did not. I thought Hobbs would match up well against Kelce, and he did not. We made a 4th Quarter stop on 3rd and 3, and got the ball back; only for Renfrow to go AWOL and blow the play. Adams had a step and a half on the CB too; that pass could have been a TD.
Where we did well. The offensive line looked amazing last night. Carr was only sacked once, and the Chiefs defense is pretty stout; not too mention their run defense, which Jacobs carved up. If you told me before the game that Jacobs would rush for 154 yards, and Carr would throw for 241 yards; I would think we would win. But nope, 1 and 4.
Adams shove looked incidental. See the link in this article for a different angle.
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/10/11/man-shoved-to-ground-by-davante-adams-files-police-report/
Florio is full of sh*t claiming Adams was out of line. The guy cut right in front of Adams walking into a restricted entrance to the facility (like a car running a red light). Adams gave the guy a shove and kept walking. The cameraman went to the hospital and filed a police report. Unbelievable! What a snowflake! He should be the one apologizing to Adams. Hopefully, Adams does not get suspended. The guy can take Adams to civil court and explain how this ruined his life.
Some observations
1) Holding on the defense on a field goal? The last time that was called was 8 years ago. Ridiculous. Adams catch in the last minute on the sidleline looked secure before he stepped out.
2) Adams is amazing and Carr played great. Crosby is all world and Chandler Jone finally made a material impact
3) Oline looked solid but not spectacular----I give JAcobs credit more than the line. Jacobs is playing at a pro bowl level.
4) Renfrow did not look himself and losing Waller hurt
5) The call to go for 2 was not the end of the world. In fact I think the Chiefs played it safe on offense after the Raiders failed which allowed the defense to stop them.
6) The play call on 4 and 1 in OT left a lot to be desired even with Renfrow running into Adams.
I think the team and the coaching is improving. I expect them to go on a run after the bye and get back to 500. Its rough getting off to such a terrible start and losing close games in such brutal fashion. However, I think the talent is there
Sandy
I seem to be taking this one harder than everyone else. I think that going for two points was a terrible idea considering the time on the clock and the opponent. I don't know how you can't even SINGLE TEAM Kelce in the red zone after he's already scored three TDs on you. I don't know how you can call those plays at the end when you need ONE yard for a new set of downs to get into field goal range. That's now two losses after being up by 17+ points. McDaniels is gonna find his seat hot if something doesn't change soon.
I agree with your game takes, RT. The last play was high risk and took too long to setup in an obvious press and pressure D alignment. Agreed, a stupid call given the down and distance. The 2-pt try followed a gift by the Chiefs who failed their own mistake of a 2-pt try. Redzone defense is a mess. It appears mostly zone-based with guys who can't cover well, like Abram, running into each other. Graham appears to be struggling with playcalling as much as McDaniels.
That said, not sure I agree with McDaniels potentially approaching a hotseat. Granted, he does not have Gruden's lifetime status (pre-email), but the Raiders have played every game close and, arguably, are going through some growing pains.
Even though we may not have liked it, the 2-pt play late in a road game has some support by pundits. Gruden called a late-game 2-pt play last year that resulted in a win, albeit there wasn't 4+ minutes left in that game. Nonetheless, had Jacobs gotten in, the Raiders probably win on that play.
Sometimes these games boil down to luck. Last year, Raiders were 6-0 in these type games during the regular season. This year, they are 0-4. It sucks, but the Raiders will need more consistency to get past this level. I think we knew that much coming into this year.
I agree Take. I thought the 2 point conversion was ill timed. Maybe if it was within the last minute of the game, yes. But you had the opportunity to tie it, and give yourself another chance to fight, even if it was overtime.
I also agree on the 4th and 1 play, get the one yard, get a new set of downs, and blast the end zone, or get to the 20-30 and let Carlson win it. It was all right there, gift wrapped for the Raiders to take, and McDaniels let it go.
Don't get me started on the Defensive Holding penalty on the FG Attempt too. If you look at the video, the O-lineman of the Chiefs held our guy, and we got flagged. The refs won this game for the Chiefs.
Not a good day. I hate that our team has played like this for 2 DECADES now! I really thought we were going to take a step forward this season; and we have taken three steps backwards. This isn't a difficult game to figure this $H!T out. I'm pretty bent this morning guys. I do not get how we have the same issues with different players year-in and year-out. I don't get why we can't get our crap together on the D-Line. I don't get why we can't be aggressive with the play-calls the entire game. I don't get why we continually shoot ourselves in the foot with dumbass penalties at the most crucial moment. I don't get why we put everything on auto pilot when we have a big lead, and let the other team come back into the game. We are stuck on stupid. I am seriously about ready to throw in the towel on this team.
"Stuck on stupid." I'm afraid there's a ring of truth to it. Davante Adams, great guy, model player and person, and five games in with the Raiders he's embroiled in a mini controversy for acting out character. What is it about this org!?
The 2 point try did not factor into the game and is not the reason they lost. Not sure why everyone is harping on that. There were three scenarios at that point
Raiders make the 2 pointer: Chiefs come out on offense with maximum aggresion
Raiders make the 1 pointer: Chiefs come out with medium aggresion
Raiders miss the2 pointer: Chiefs come out wiht least aggresive offnsive posture. That is what happened
The 4th and 1 call at the end of the game was a bad choice but the 2 pointer was not a big deal
Any which way you need to stop the Chiefs the Raiders did, it is moot.
Sandy
Nate, the refs also allowed the Raiders to retain the ball on a clear strip-sack by Chris Jones. Officiating impacted both teams badly.
Sandy, I don't think you can say the Chiefs would have just pushed on the gas if they needed to. There was no one-point differential (up or down) that the Chiefs wanted to give the Raiders the ball back with over two minutes left and only needing a FG to win. They were trying to make plays and the Raiders D stopped them.
To that point, Raiders ran smart safety blitzes with both safeties. If one flushed out Mahomes, the other was on the opposite side to contain. That was smart and effective.
That's what's so puzzling about soft coverage and 3-man pressures when the Raiders gave up a FG with about 13 seconds left in the half. Pressuring Mahomes was effective. But leaving him in the pocket for as long as he needs to survey the field is a recipe for failure, as has been proven many times. Shame on Graham for thinking that might work.
I think we can all agree this game was a huge disappointment after seeing the Raiders were clearly capable of winning it.
The Raiders aren't in K.C.'s class they aren't just a player away. They are a team in a city that is about money and image not football.
The Pats' guys are modern NFL guys and maybe they came with some great
Reggie ruined the culture with the excuse he was building a new 1.
Del Rio made you think he was the perfect coach because of his appearance and being a Raiders' fan.
The NFL coned you into thinking Gruden/ Mayock were the team that would take Raiders 'back to glory' with modern ideas but a little of the old Raiders' culture and system.
But Gruden had no real control of his team. He wasn't allowed to pick, trade for or sign the guys he wanted. He was to entertain us and work with NFL people not be an old Raiders guy; He was hired to keep us buying tickets, to be good leaders, to behave and make small, money saving but good moves and don't try to go old NFL on us. They can draft good but not top players or star FAs' because the league wants the Raiders to have new and NFL image. Mayock is inexperienced and Gruden doesn't have Al but fans should support them- and Raidernation did.
Raiders should have won that game. I am more frustrated with coaching than players. They may not need more players to reach KC status, just more time to develop their new system.., and get rid of the kinks. We all saw the Carr to Adams connection on full display. It was a thing of beauty, so much so, McDaniels went to it once too often. Josh Jacobs probably just got more running lanes against opposing defenses after that 2-TD display by Carr and Adams.
Crosby is en fuego, and Chandler Jones, despite not having a sack, plays the edge soundly and is very disruptive in the backfield. He'll break out soon.
All these things make the 1-4 start even more frustrating. The Raiders are on the cusp. I believe the players know how close they are and will continue to rally behind coaching.
It's bad, but it's not over.
NY said, " The Raiders are on the cusp."
This is my problem right here. How long has the Raiders been on the cusp of something great, just this last decade? 2016 was a glimmer of hope, then five years of failure. Last year, we made great strides in the midst of destruction and made the playoffs, lost to the Bengals, a game we should have won, and continue to slide downward. The Raiders have been on the cusp for 9 years now, and every time, they find a way to slide back down. On the cusp or not, there is a culture in this organization that is no longer Committed to Excellence or to winning.
I agree with Nate, as a great writer once wrote, silver linings don't get you into the playoffs. 1-4 is a huge mountain to climb and very few have done it. Until it is proven, it's just the same ole chit. Clinging to hope, is no longer an option. The pieces are there and until it is shown that they can win some games, the coaches will be held accountable.
NY,
There is no such thing as throwing the ball too often to Adams. See the tweet and video from Baldy below. 5 deep shots to Adams---1 first down, 2 pass intereference and 2 tds. The last play call of the game could be critizced but there was also about 45 seconds left no timeouts and they still needed about 20 yards so throwing it down the field was not the worst idea. In my opinion if Adams is not getting a minimum of 10 targets a game something is wrong.
The problem was/is the defense. Secondary looked weak and the rest of the d line is avg aside from Crosby
https://mobile.twitter.com/BaldyNFL/status/1579831120832917508
Sandy
Nate, we are all disappointed with the Raiders slow start, but labeling their 1-4 start abstract failure on a level of two decades of underperforming is a bit much. Plenty of folks were more than happy to give Gruden four years. Shouldn't we give McDaniels more time to iron this out? I agree the coaches need to be accountable, but the Raiders have been in 5 close games.
Gruden left many holes, not the least of which was a terrible O-line. In fairness, McDaniels needed time to see just how bad these guys were. Clearly, some of the blame falls to Zeigler and McDaniels for not having adequate contingency.
Sandy, I agree with a long throw in desperation (catch or PI), but it's still a low percentage play when the Raiders needed a first down with a yard to go. Plenty of time to get a first down, spike the ball and run 2-3 more plays, including a long ball. We can second guess this all day long. It's moot now. Coaches and players have to be better than they've been.
Usually, when a new coaching staff is put in place and have inherited a playoff team, the team is supposed to keep on rising. Gruden inherited a 6-10 team that needed a do over. So, of course, do overs take some time and Gruden had built a playoff team and was wanting to keep building.
Can one see the difference to what this staff has done? They have taken a good team, added their pieces and gone 1-4 with some of the worst losses we have seen in the 20 yr drought, with big leads blown.
This coaching staff is supposed to be the best out of the 20 year drought, it's not looking that way and this is why Raider fans are concerned. It really shouldn't take this long to figure it out, should have been done in the off season, watching film and having a very good idea of the players even before stepping onto the field for the 1st practice of the year. It shouldn't take half a season to get to know your players.
NY,
McDaniels and Zeigler came in saying that they had the mindset to win now, not later. I'm holding them to their word; which no one else seems to. Gruden may have left many holes, but this regime hasn't really done anything to fix that. Sure, Chandler Jones was a sexy signing, as was Rock Ya-Sin; but the Raiders still have a pass-rush/QB Pressure problem at DT, and a DB problem of staying in their assignments.
Now I will say, the O-Line is looking better every week. But what good is our team, if our defense cannot collectively make a stop? Bottom line, the product is not as it was advertised; and has not been for quite sometime. I, as a Raiders' fan, am ready for something new and different ... Consistent winning and a Commitment to Excellence.
I don't won't to circle the wagons again, but Gruden dismantled the team to its core, trading a future HOF player in Mack and he completely started over. Yes, the Raiders made the playoffs last year, but calling them a "playoff team" implies perennial success, which simply isn't the case. Again, at the risk of being redundant, they won 6 games on the skin of their teeth last year. Last drive games can go either way. That's why it should come as no surprise the Raiders have lost 4 games in the same fashion so far this season. It's unfortunate, but that's how it goes, especially, since the team is still learning a new system.
Nate, the best laid plans don't always work as hoped. The defense made a critical stop Sunday. In fact, the Raiders offense has been in a position to tie or win all four games which they've lost this year. That's actually impressive. They just need to close the deal.
Look, I am for holding the regime fully accountable, but I think that comes with some understanding of the circumstances. Gruden did not leave a full house, nor should the current regime be handcuffed to Gruden's method. I think we are seeing improvement every week. The O-line is starting to gel, the running game is top shelf again, and Carr to Adams connection looks like mid-season form. We were missing Waller and Moreau on Sunday, and Renfrow was coming off a concussion.
I want to remain optimistic and see improvement as it presents itself.
Zeigler and McDaniels signed a lot of players this off-season, but I think if we're going to be critical of position groups, like the Raiders defensive backfield, that discussion can easily start with Gruden holdovers.
You don't want to circle the wagons again, so you try to bring up the BS narrative you have been pushing all off season and declare you don't really want to do that again. Something tells me you do want to do it again.
Mack wanted to be highest paid and he didn't want to be a Raider anymore. Mack has done nothing an avg player can do since he left. Why you try to keep pushing that button, shows you still want to try and secure your theories as fact, when in fact, they aren't.
A lot of teams win by the skin of their teeth, good teams win, losing teams don't. I said the Raiders were a playoff team and they were, never mentioned perennial playoff team, but Gruden had them trending to that.
Good coaching see's a team that has made the playoffs, has a good core and chemistry and would build off of it, the momentum has been burnt, torched, buried. And you consider it a good thing.
Good teams win most of their games by small margins, it's the way of the game, no team blows out other teams much anymore. You can keep making excuses if you like, what happened to no more excuses? Now you keep making them.
No team has a fullhouse, in a cap world, teams will always have weaknesses, Gruden was still building the team when he was blackballed by the league.
You also stated that this is no longer Gruden's team, but, when a weakness shows itself, well, that's still on Gruden? Back and forth you go, maybe some consistency would go a long way in your takes.
I disagree with your assertion that Gruden built a playoff team. 4 years and zero playoff wins does not a playoff team make. And saying Gruden was still building after 4 years kinda says it all. Gruden left in 2021 with only 2 more wins than McDaniels has right now.
As for Mack, why do you care what he makes? Can you provide anything at all that shows Mack wanted to be the highest paid at his position prior to Gruden trading him? I remember reading that negotiations with the Raiders were based on Von Miller's contract, which wasn't even market value for Miller at that time.
And Mack has excelled since being traded. He single-handedly cost the Raiders a chance to win in Week 1 this year. He blew up the Raiders best O-lineman play after play. You're foolish if you don't want Mack playing for the Raiders.
Gruden is no longer leading the team but many of his players remain. It's a shame that I have to clarify that for your strawman statement above. Or are you denying any connection exists? Because that would be interesting to hear about.
of course you disagree that Gruden built a playoff team, even though, they made the playoffs.
Who says I care what Mack makes, you accuse of strawman, as you strawman.
Anyways, been through this trap of yours more than once, time to let you pretend with someone else.
Wow!
The NFL way is great for people who like big business and the corporate way of running the NFL.
But maybe its' caused the Raiders to sink further into problems, mediocrity and dysfunction(not about Al).
Maybe they improved but not made the steps to gel and grow as a team. Maybe they aren't finding the right people.
Maybe they need to try older ways.
Al's ideas:
WINNING! football
profit
loyalty from coaches/ players
Super Bowls
loyalty to fans
new stadiums
future of the Raiders
respect for the game
retirement and money help for ex-players from all teams.
build a good product on the field
NFL model franchise ideas:
1. Money:
1. t.v.
2. investment
3. PSLs'/ Luxury boxes
4. entertainment, food and licensed merchandise share(tenants at the stadium).
5. public
6. the gate(season tickets)
7. share revenue with all 32 teams
8. stadium naming rights
2. power:
1. legal protection from some lawsuits.
2. help from politicians.
You really want to be NFL? you need to get guys or have MD copy other teams.
1. Dallas Cowboys/ even when they lose they look good. they have a long history of winning and hiring front office people. They are a little like Al, they will spend on star players and they will take chances on picks even though they have modern style of scouting players.
2. S.F. 49ers/ you acted like you didn't care who came to Raiders as long as it they won. you hate them but they draft and get 2 HOF QBs' and have some great drafts.
3. Pittsburgh Steelers/ you hate them too but they are 1 of the best teams in sports history. they're tough and will draft big guys but not over pay their guys or draft for speed and athleticism. but they are NFL pets and are conservative.
Dallas is the closest to a rebel team.
They will try to win or make more money and do things to stress the NFL. they love speed, size and athleticism and to win but aren't interested in pissing off the NFL too much. They will do things to win and sometimes make business deals that stress out the NFL.
The Raiders may just need to look at what old teams did and that might help them find ideas to win or get the team focused with older systems that once were big and won. Maybe some of those winning ideas could help Raiders.
spotting stars- The Raiders just won't even look at the things teams in the past have done to win. They are committed to the ideas of the Patriots, Steelers, the owners and Billy Bean(A's GM). They won't spend big on a star. Adams was a good move but very expensive trade. He doesn't have the speed but he's a pro bowler. I thought you weren't supposed to trade your top draft picks but the Pats' guys did. We won't get those college players who may be overrated but have the athletic talents. We instead keep drafting players that are can be coached up and are team players and maybe become stars.
A fan base that did everything a hateful media/ NFL people said('12- be patient, support Reggie and let Al's era go) and has supported their claims but hadn't seen their team succeed after 10 years- KEEP listening to them.
Name 1 NFL team that EVER whiffed on 5 1st rounders?
Name 1 that sticks with systems that don't really work for it for 10 years.
that refuses to use SPEED even though they know from history that it helped make it scary.
that keeps signing guys off the street instead of signing star FAs' to improve their team.
that continues to reach for college players and refuses to draft the big name college stars.
that won't look into its' successful past to get ideas to improve.
Maybe you should ask MD and McDaniels, Reggie and Mayock why they refused to try a little legendary guys' ideas(Al, Noll, J. Johsnon) or just try and use big, fast talented guys.
The Raiders need some big moves and changes and the best fan base in all of pro sports needs to let them know they need to do more, spend more and trade more and try other older ways instead of the greedy, PARITY influenced, money saving and copy -other-teams, obey the league and conservative system of the NFL.
Pass rush- trade Ferrell and maybe check the 49ers' DL and see if we can get a guy like Willis. Whats up with Bowers? Is he playing well in training camp? Is he injured why isn't he playing? they need to give Crosby a rest and you might have to make C. Jones a back up and make him a 3rd down specialist.
RB- they have a room full of RBs' so maybe you should trade J. Jacobs. They can get a pass rusher, draft picks or a CB. They NEED a fast RB.
CB- SPEED! The Raiders have signed every kind of CB for the past 10 years yet, they haven't yet found the a top players. Oh, they have good CBs' but they haven't found that dominating player. If they find a system guy(the Patriots' idea- they also have gotten elite CBs' too) fine, but maybe they need an athlete with speed to coach up into a good player.
The new Raiders don't seem to be interested in being rebels. They are sitting by while the season is fading. But they also aren't listening to the NFL everytime- they've done some Al/ old NFL era-like moves. The Pats' guy may have more say than Gruden did because they came from well- the Patriots-so they may be able to do more and they need to.
They need to spend and make more trades. The fans need to tell the NFL the Raiders need room to spend more and to bring in more FAs' and staff who know how to coach up bigger, faster players. They need to tell the Raiders to not be so greedy and spend and bring in players to try and win and not to just be like the NFL and put money above their fans' issues with ticket, food and hotel prices and worries the NFL's pressure for teams to be cheap and the Raiders lack the room to make moves.
NY, still complaining about Gruden lol. I tell you one thing putting aside Gruden's player Personnel performance he sure is a hell of a better Coach than McDaniels. No way Gruden loses tge Arizona game. Sandy
There's no quarter with you guys. Still conjuring up visions of the "great days" of Gruden and his 22-31 record part deux with the Raiders.
As disappointing as the start to 2022 is, the Raiders are learning a new system!
Despite the mostly inherited problems with the O-line, the transformation from ZBS to power blocking is already paying big dividends. If he can stay healthy, Jacobs is on his way to a career year. And Adams is by far the best WR the Raiders have had in a long (long!) time. His reconnection with Carr is starting to click.
Who would have thought Waller and Renfrow would be struggling through 5 games. Between the fumbles, drops and collisions, both players have cost the Raiders potential wins this year.
Dylan Parham is a top-20 guard in the league (PFF) and has played center and both guard positions for the Raiders. What a great 3rd round find!
Crosby is arguably the best DE in the league right now. Jones and the rest of the D-line need to catch up.
It's easy to criticize McDaniels right now, and I'd be the first to add to that criticism, but this ain't over. The Raiders will grow into their new system and be fine.
But keep pining for Gruden. It suits you.
Its' not about Gruden its' about the
Crosby is outstanding.
Adams is 1 of the best WRs' in the NFL.
Parham is doing good sometimes.
BUT!!
Isn't this what you said was the problem with the '09-'11 Raiders? Good feeling, moral victories, all the good players and great plays in loses. But a losing season?
How can you put out feel good and stats when the team kept ? They(Al's era) talks about making changes but keep losing!
Raiders during '11:
They had the best pass rushing DL in the NFL. Only 39 sacks that year but far more pressures and turn overs and many uncalled holding calls.
They had the best STs' in the NFL. 2 pro-bowl kickers and 1 of the most exciting KRs' in the NFL(J. Ford) a pro-bowl LS(Condo) and a lot of pro-bowl level coverage teams(Cooper, Meyers, #50, Cartwright).
They had a pro-bowl QB(C. Palmer).
They had a top 5 running game(DMAC and Bush).
They had 1 of the best front offices in the NFL.
But you said- 'Al's gotta go' 'pix six Palmer has to go'- 'Hue has to go'.
Reggie's gonna build a dynasty, MD knows whats he's doing, Gruden's gonna build a winner.
The Raiders were 8-8 but should've been AFC West Champions. You wanted change and you didn't think Hue could build a winner.
You felt the Raiders were stuck in the past and Al was to blame for their problems.
Well, the Al Raiders not only lost but somehow dodged PARITY. They couldn't win 1 season with a system were mediocrity can win? How can mediocre teams not win if the field was level?
Again, what bad decisions can you make when your roster is better than most teams?
If you are a bad team shouldn't you still win if that's how the league is made?
Why were the Raiders the only team that PARITY didn't affect?
So, is the 'model franchise way' that awesome no other system can beat it? Are the Patriots, Steelers the only dynasty/ winning teams with a good system?
Al's experience and front office didn't mean anything after '03?
Yet, mediocrity won back then because the NFL put in a PARITY system.
I guess it was all Al's fault and had nothing to do with noting but ancient front office, Al and a teams with modern coaches.
Nothing to do with anything but Al and his bad decisions not:
1. voting against the new CBA(capping Vets' and rookie salaries).
2. supporting NFLPA boss G. Upshaw
3. complaining to media about the new CBA.
4. paying players/ rookies large salaries that FORCE owners to have to pay vet and rookies more.
5. standing with the players against the CBA and the players thanking Al.
6. suing the Buccaneers
7. refusing to bring in a co-owner billionaire to make Raiders more valuable.
8. being slow with the city of Oakland in getting a new stadium built.
A guy who was past his time and forgot how to win. The worst team in the NFL. Size, Speed and Athleticism a joke, won't work. A team slumped so bad that it got old in just one off season and got so bad that can't win in 9 years? So bad that even 31 other teams could easily beat it and the PARITY in the NFL didn't help it?
Wow! Maybe its' not Al, the Pats guys or Gruden that are the problem maybe its' the integrity of pro sports leagues and owners that need some integrity.
Yes I will keep pinning for Gruden, David Shaw, Foug Pederson or Jim Harbaugh basically anyone who doesn't suck like McDaniels. It pains me to say it but the guy is not head coaching material never has been. Sandy
If I may make a generalization, it's ironic how you've supported or accepted the Raiders decisions for the past, IDK, 10-20 years, but you've suddenly hit a wall with McDaniels who has been on the job for five games.
There is a video clip going around that talks about McDaniels winning his first 6 games as a head coach with the Doncos; then he was caught videoing other teams practices (Spy Gate II), and lost the rest of his games. He has only won one more game since Spy Gate II. Think about that.
As Al said, "If you ain't cheatin' you ain't trying."
We could have had Jim Harbaugh instead of Del Rio. Not sure David Shaw would be a great HC in the NFL; don't get me wrong, he's a terrific College coach. I'm not sold on Doug Pederson either, maybe as a Coordinator; but he couldn't do anything with the Eagles without Nick Foles.
What I want to see after the bye week, is the Raiders coming to lay the wood on defense. Our defense has progressively gotten worse over the course of the last 5 years. Our offense has kept us in these games; but our defense needs to step up and get some turnovers and stops; especially in the red zone. The offense needs to stay aggressive the entire game; again, over the course of the last 5 years, the offense usually comes out flat in the 3rd Quarter. That has to change.
Coaching wise, McDaniels and crew has to be smart with their play-calling and adjustments. They cannot let up if they have a sizeable lead; and for the love of God; THROW OUT PREVENT DEFENSE!
Like I said my last post, however, I believe the Raiders have gotten away from their mottos of "Just Win, Baby!" and "Commitment to Excellence." It seems they are more interested in being entertaining. If that is the case, then the new motto for Mark Davis should be: "Just Sell, Baby!"
I've seen two different angles of the Adams "shove" video. I can't see anywhere the photographer might have hit his head, so I'm not understanding how he was concussed, nor some of his other reported injuries. It looks like a big lie. IMO, it's become a case of KC police (community) wanting to stick it to the Raiders and an ESPN nobody who found a deep pocket and would like to get paid.
For all the unchecked violent crime and push to decriminalize "small" crimes around the country, this looks incredibly petty on behalf of KC police and ESPN (and soon to be involved NFL).
This should already be resolved with an autographed jersey. That's all it's worth!
Mike Floria is an idiot for clamoring that the NFL needs to make an example out of Adams.
Nate, nobody likes prevent defense either but lots of teams are employing it as a hybrid with elements of zone and man coverage. The Bills looked good doing it last night, but they have the personnel. The Raiders, apparently, don't.
Bills rushed three and left a spy at the LOS for Mahomes. That seems so obvious. For the Raiders, Abram often appeared to be a spy but he got misdirected and outrun.
Meanwhile, the Raiders defense lacks both pass rush and coverage. IMO, Moehrig is overrated. He doesn't see much action because he often plays too deep, like in Siberia, so his stats don't tell the whole story. How often do you see Moehrig around the ball? Almost never. Moehrig was mostly the one trying to cover Kelce in his 4-TD spectacle. Abram is terrible in coverage. At this point, that's unlikely to change. Raiders don't have any good coverage safeties or LBs. So when the Raiders rush 3 and drop everyone else in coverage, they are not going to get the same result as Buffalo or many other teams that do it successfully.
The Raiders have been better in man coverage... which is historically true of most Raiders teams.
They are easily fooled in red zone defense, which we sometimes see them tripping over each other, like last week against KC.
Something has to give on defense. So far, Patrick Graham has been a disappointment. He has surrendered two huge leads in five games. Didn't the Chiefs drive for a FG with only 13 seconds on the clock to end the half? How can we allow that and expect to win?
IMO, the Raiders defense would be far more successful playing aggressively, like Spagnola has the Chiefs play. They held a potent Bills offense most of the game last night and kept the Raiders from staging a comeback last week. Actually, the end of the Bills game was very much like the Raiders game... except the Bills finished the job!
Ohhhhh!!!!! The Wall!!
Wow! NY Raider! A Wall? Really?
Let me tell you the difference between the Al, Reggie and Gruden era's and the Pats' guys!
Wow! FOA they had a far higher standard and hype everybody accept Gruden when they were hired.
1. they will be successful from the start.
2. the learned from 1 of if not the best ever HC and SHOULD be able to make big changes.
3. again, a new GM is great it doesn't matter who he is. He just has to be modern and know football. Although Denver and New England have/ had some outstanding front offices it really doesn't matter if Zeigler was a GM before or not.
4. sure, trading 2 top draft picks for D. Adams was outstanding not like that mess like the R. Seymore and R. Moss trades(Al) or the great M. Flynn trade(Reggie) and the terrible trades from Gruden(Mack, Cooper and trading picks for A. Brown).
The Pats' guy knows how to build a team so their plans should succeed.
5. The Raiders will be much better. There will be discipline, a get tough attitude in camp with a strong-line stand with players(salaries/ contracts and attitudes).
A winning culture with an NFL and corporate system.
Reggie Will change the culture, he will bring a better front office and get great players(?) real football players with high character, smart and tough and passionate about football. He will clean house and get the salary cap in better shape.
Gruden/ Mayock- Yea, its TIIIIME! He gonna bring in good players. He gonna coach up a talented(?) team into winners. He gonna draft stars and guys are gonna wanna come to Oakland to play for him. He gonna draft or sign good back up QBs' and coach them up and he's gonna make Carr a star. He gonna bring in assistants to coach up the players.
He gonna make the O dangerous and get those guys to run his O he will make them better he will show them how to play better he knows QBs' and bring new ideas and is 1 of the better O coaches.
He gonna take the Raiders back to glory.
Al- he spends no stars- sometimes he hits sometimes he whiffs. He will build a fast, big defense and the pass rush will be good.
He will hire good coaches but he usually has some of the best assistants in the NFL.
He will look for speed on O but he will bring in average guys too. He'll get some good O-linemen and tight ends but he worries about speed at RB and WR. The QB position is a mystery. But 1 thing, he's gonna spend and sign guys to win.
Now, looking at all three of these guys I'd pick maybe Gruden but Al is very good and he had the talent. Reggie did a lot he drafter Carr, Mack and Cooper and got the salary cap fixed(?)- but made a mess of the team claiming(media) it needed to be cleaned up. Gruden/ Mayock dealt with what they could get, they never had control of the Raiders but did get some good players and some fans don't agree-, was a good play caller.
The fact is the media and some fans claimed McDaniels/ Zeigler were going to get the Raiders moving this year. Its' their standards and experience that had some supporting them and some haters because of possibly being overrated. Its' the Patriot way that made them bets to turn it around the day they walk through the door. Nobody should hold that burden. But media made them the Champion franchise builders and fans made them big time GM/ coaches that would make Raiders winners this year.
Al had the talent and staff to win. He doesn't always win so fast but later he makes the Raiders a winner. His system had the talent and coaches. The NFL/ owners and Raidernation wanted a new direction and now they are asking when will the Raiders win again?
Ziegler and McDaniels suck. Look at the defense I am not sure what the plan was. Chandler Jones in for Yannick Ngakoue, Rock Ya-Sin in for Casey Hayward and a truck full of somewhat random defensive tackles for Solomon Thomas and Quinton Jefferson (and Darius Philon) and the defense was supposed to be better?. Sandy
I believe the plan was to plug the middle with big guys who could play the interior and stop the run. So far, the Raiders run defense is notably better than previous years, and Chandler Jones is part of that. He has no sacks but he's been disruptive in the backfield, including drawing several holding calls.
Hayward was a FA off a one-year deal with the Raiders. Maybe you should blame Mayock and Gruden for that. I read somewhere that he has struggled in Atlanta. That said, I wanted to keep him as well.
It's fair to expect improvement but throwing in the towel as you've done in your last two posts seems shortsighted. You are all-out after five close games? Where's (a fraction of) the patience you demonstrated with Gruden, who was absolutely cringeworthy at times.
It's becoming clearer that the current regime wants to separate itself from Gruden regime, with Ferrell and Abram rumored to be available for trade prior to the Nov 1 deadline.
Ferrell is a dud, but Abram was a tackling machine last year. Abram's problem, and it's a big one, is that he can't cover. Tough to play safety and not be able to cover. Trading him now probably gets the Raiders a mid-round draft pick but it would leave them even thinner at safety.
NY, Yes I am disgusted after 5 games. Why? Because this regime said the team is ready to win now and it was. No one media included think the Raiders lack talent. They were 10-6 last year and even though Carr started to regress once Gruden resigned they denetly should have been a playoff contender this year. 1-4 is a disgrace. I am sick and tired off McDaniels saying we need to learn how to close out games. He needs to learn how to coach to close ut games.
Sandy
Sandy, not only did no one in the media think this team lacked talent, no one in the organization believed they lacked the talent to win now. So if it is not the talent, then change the game plan.
Former player, Mike Pritchard, went on KRLV with Clay Baker and Raidersbeat.com and said that Patrick Graham has an overcomplicated defensive scheme (meaning he tries to outsmart himself). Mentioned things like Chandler Jones dropping back to play linebacker, players having to think about everything instead of just flying around taking names and hitting people. Defense shouldn't be this difficult. The final nail was this comment, "I hate to say it, but the Giants have gotten better without Patrick Graham defensively. That’s just real.”
I've said it before, quit trying to outsmart yourself and just play. This is why the Dodgers lost to the Padres, Dave Roberts is always trying to outsmart himself. Work to the strengths of the roster, not the scheme, be aggressive, and JUST WIN, BABY!
Sandy, I get your frustration, but the Raiders have been snakebit by lack of familiarity early in a new regime. They have played in 5 close games with 5 good teams. It's not always easy to push the right buttons without the familiarity that comes with time. We as Raiders fans know that all too well.
For the record, I disagree that Carr regressed when Gruden resigned. His best games (and the Raiders best games) last year were late in the season. The Raiders mid-season skid started before Gruden left and perhaps was exacerbated by Gruden's departure.
Nate, that article (interview) was revealing. I've commented many times that the Raiders defense has looked much better when it's aggressive, often in the second half of games when the Raiders offense needs to stage a comeback. In fact, in those situations (essentially, every game), the Raiders defense has given the offense the ball with a chance to win late in games. Therein lies the problem that Sandy is so frustrated with. The Raiders offense can be blamed for every loss... ok, maybe that's a bridge too far in the Cards game.
That said, the Raiders did not (still do not) have as good a defense as the Giants under Graham.
Give this at least another few weeks. If the Raiders are still losing, we will all be on the same page. The team is behind McDaniels. Forget Denver, he is a rookie HC right now, and perhaps we are seeing rookie mistakes.
Allowing 4 years for Gruden and 5 games for McDaniels is incredibly unfair.
NY, you lost me when you said Arizona Tennessee and Denver are good teams. Nate, I hear you anytime Chandler Jones is in coverage is a waste of a down. Sandy
So, the new Raiders have talent and the media claimed the did too.
O.K. well, the Raiders were 8-8 in '10 then went 8-8 again in '11. The media had claimed for 5 years the Raiders didn't have ANY talent!
No put down on the new regimes but I think the Raiders had top 5 rosters except maybe '07, for most of their slump yet you went with the media's claim they had NO talent.
not always on 1 team during the slump but over 9 years.
Al's Raiders:
the best kickers in the NFL(C-Bass and S. Lechler).
4 pro bowl CBs' over a 9 year period(Hall, Nnamdi. C. Johnson and S. Routt pro bowl level.
A lot of pro-bowl and very good DLs'(W. Sapp, D. Bryant, T. Kelly, D. Tollefson, J. Richardson, K. Wimbley, T. Scott, Q. Moses, D. Burgess, C. Clemons, T. Sands, R. Seymore, R. Coleman).
Very good run game(DMAC, M. Bush, T. Jones, C. Garner, L. Jordan, J. Fargas).
Some very good WRs'(R. Moss, J. Porter, D. Gabriel, D. Moore, J. Ford, L. Murphy).
Some pro bowl level to good KRs'(J. Ford, Chris Carr, N. Miller).
So, the new Raiders are talented but don't win. They have talent- the media and fans feel they do. As for Al's era- the Raiders were the worst team in the league and had no talent as of '03. Yet I saw a lot of outstanding plays. They did lose a lot but the team looked good until the 4th quarter except for maybe 5-6 teams I think they had better rosters than most teams.
But something happened not anything that strange at 1st-, sometimes SB teams lose after their run.
Its' just that this was kind of strange that the Raiders didn't start winning or at least having SOME winning seasons for 9 years. What was it that could've caused the slump?
1. Al and his dysfunction.
2. losing Gruden and Gannon
3. No talent(?)
Well, FOA Al was still 1 of if not a top 5 GM. He was making good moves bringing in pro bowl FAs' and drafting some good players.
Al doesn't trip over ANY player for long. Gannon was good but Al would find somebody to replace him. And Gruden did his leaving cause that much trouble? Maybe, but some fans now feel he wasn't that good a HC so that means Al lead them to SB against him or is it he was very good HC but with Al he had freedom and talent to come up with good game plans?
Talent doesn't win in the NFL. Being cheap,
and conservative does. Anyway, PARITY makes it unimportant because mediocre teams can make the playoffs now- everybody except Al's Raiders. With all of those outstanding players with good-outstanding HCs' they can't win over a 9 year period with all those mediocre playoff games. Cheap built, mediocre teams winning and Raiders losing to some of the most mediocre teams they couldn't go to the playoff once. Just the special teams and DL, N. Turner and Hue alone should've lead to at least 1 playoff trip. Oh well, that's the NFL maybe the media was right the Raiders should get average guys, just coach them up and don't them a lot and charge big ticket prices for this kind of football and you'll beat other systems most of the time. Wow! fans can be so conned.
Broncos have a top-tier defense. TN is coming off home-field advantage in the playoffs last year, and AZ was a playoff team with 11-6 record and with Kyler Murray at QB. What don't you get? I have to listen to how the Raiders were a "playoff" team but these teams don't deserve your respect? Really?
Yes they are bad teams this year just like the Raiders. Sandy
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