Goodbye Derek Carr, Hello Future + Trivia
It's official - Derek Carr is no longer an Oakland Raider.
I have mixed feelings. He was a great Raiders, one of our best QBs in ages.
Yet his ceiling seemed somewhat fixed. Good to great, but not elite. Not a QB who could consistently impose his will on games and team culture, albeit often in very uncertain, unfair or chaotic circumstances.
It got me thinking about this long run of futility for the Raiders, this seemingly endless search for a lasting head coach and an elite franchise QB, among other things.
So I thought I would throw this out there. Going back around 30 years, since Art Shell's last season in 1994 to conclude his first go-round as head coach, who are the Raiders' Top Three in the following categories over this period:
-Head Coach
-Quarterback
-Overall Best Player
So three choices only, spanning from 1994 to now. Let 'er rip!
posted by Raider Take at 3:07 PM
298 Comments:
Obviously the combo of Al and Gruden was the best.
Gannon was the best QB, Carr didn't have the team around him, like Gannon had, wonder what would have happened if they were reversed in their time periods with the Raiders.
Best player is a tough one, you could say Jerry Rice was the best player the Raiders had on a roster, but his play wasn't the best of a Raider. Same goes for Randy Moss, who's play for the Raiders was pathetic. Might have to go with Gannon, it was a short period, but it was a great one and he led the team and had the stats to back it up. To be honest, no one really stands out as the best, a lot of mediocre with a few good years thrown in.
Love it, Anon - can you go a step further and provide 1,2 & 3 for each?
ie:
QB
1-Gannon
2-Carr
3-?
Charles Woodson might be in the best player mix.
To Raider Take,
The best Raiders' QBs IMO are down here:
K. Stabler
J. Plunkett
D. LaMonica
G. Blanda
R. Gannon
* D. Carr
from 1994 to now?:
HC- Gruden
QB- J. Hostetler
Overall best player('94-present): tie- Nnamdi and T. Brown
That was a tough period for the Raiders but they didn't go on a 9 year slump. They went to the playoffs about 3 times in the 90's.
It would be six years before they would find their winning HC and start winning again.
This is the 1 era where we can see the damage that Al did to the team but it didn't cause a 9 year slump. He made M. Allen go through a lot and overused B. Jackson and the team finally went into a long over due slump- wait, its' what all great/ winnning teams do, and it took six years to fix. But that's how football is sometimes but NO team goes on a 9 year slump.
Take why do we need a so called franchise QB? you mean a vet can't lead a team to the playoffs? Why not build a great defense and draft a fast RB and see if a vet can help us win?
Washington, K.C., Oakland and Colts had success using veterans. So I think there are other ways to build a team without using a 1st round pick or making a big trade for a franchise QB.
* QBs' before Carr- I know Carr was a favorite and was good but some of Al's guys were already winner before coming to Oakland and should've been able to lead team to the playoffs:
K. Collins- played in SB
D. Culpepper- 1 of the best in the NFL before bad knee injury still played well.
C. Palmer- a pro bowl QB and 1 of best in the NFL but Raidernation seems to believe it was a bad move for Hue to have traded for him.
TP2- he didn't make fans forget the other QBs' but he sure tried to lead this team. He had 1 of the best runs for a QB in NFL history(92 yarder against Pitt).
J. Campbell- Al traded for him and thought a lot of him. Was doing a good job before an injury. When Reggie came he let him walk.
team culture?: what culture? you had 1 but didn't want it anymore! you thought Reggie was going to bring 1!
Long run of losing?: Take! Yea, a 19 year slump(2 winning years- 21 years). You are right about that! But you guys wanted to change things to a modern system. The media/ NFL claimed Al was stuck in the past, sad he passed away but it was a good thing to have a new direction and new start. They brought in NFL people and it ruined the culture and even took our best things from us
What have we lost since the new eras took over?
1. California
2. the black hole
3. tailgating/ the NFL outlawed it anyway.
4. some of the best broadcasters in pro sports/ G. Papa working for the 49ers?
Some of you seem are showing loyalty to the NFL system and feel they know whats best for us and really aren't questioning them.
When fans/ haters ask why the patience with the NFL/ Raiders fans get offended when haters laugh and ask why support the NFL because they know the rumors the league hates us and if they are helping or advising us on building a team why is it taking so long? are they just keeping us spending money?
It's actually really hard to come up with a top 3 of anything for the last 30 odd years, it's pathetic, really.
HC's, Al/Gruden...after that, maybe DelRio because they made the playoffs? Same goes for Gruden2? ....not much to choose from.
Same at QB, after Gannon and Carr, what is there? It's pathetic, really.
I agree with you about Woodson, again, slim pickins here. In another couple years, Crosby could very easily be on the top of that list.
I was watching the night Gannon got hurt and Kerry Collins became the QB. The friend I was watching it with, actually started to cry because as he said, "we can get back to Raider ball". He, like many Raider fans of that era, didn't like that the Raiders were playing a West Coast O. Just like with Al, he wanted it to go back to what it was pre Gruden1. He wanted the old Raiders back, the long pass, Al's way. But, he was soon disappointed because Collins sucked and so did the rest of the team. And it's pretty much been garbage ever since.
Tim Brown should definitely get mentions here, he was a great Raider.
Anon, a vet or non-elite can definitely lead to the playoffs. Look at Gannon, one of the best in that scenario. There are a lot of ways to skin a cat and go deep into the playoffs, even someone like Nick Foles can win a Super Bowl. Look at Stafford and the Rams. The Niners with Jimmy G., Jaguars with Bortles in a Championship, Mark Sanchez, too. But do you notice how quickly these situations deteriorate and how they rarely repeat?
However: an elite franchise QB seems to be the surefire way to build a perennial contender today. Look at Brady, Big Ben, Russell Wilson (Seahawks), Manning, Rodgers, Brees, now Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, etc. Those teams were/are ALWAYS in the mix for years on end.
EVERY NFL team should aspire to a QB like that.
There's so much to this, I would like to start with Derek Carr.
First, I agree that every team should aspire to an elite QB. Unfortunately, for the "modern" Raiders, that's been more of a dream than a reality. Does it surprise anyone that the Raiders QB history headlines with JaMarcus Russell as their top choice?
Carr's departure, while unfortunate, isn't entirely unreasonable. However, IMO, only once was Carr truly placed in a position to excel. Under Bill Musgrave as OC, Carr went 12-2 and, despite breaking his leg and missing the last two games, he was 3rd in league MVP voting. I don't believe Carr ever fully recovered mentally from that injury. Gruden II did admirably working with Carr, and Bisaccia (with Gruden's framework) did even better.
Yet here we are. Carr is a good QB but he is also very inconsistent. He's one of only a few QBs to ever throw 500 yards in a game, with four TDs and no INTs. But then he could play a horrendous game like the Steelers game this year, or the Jets game a few years ago that I painfully watched from the stands in NJ. It's hard to believe those two QBs are the same person.
McDaniels is a cerebral coach from the podium, but he laid an egg on the field this year, with some terrible play-calling, lack of adjustments and his untimely ultra conservative approach. So, discarding Derek Carr like he was the problem is a bit rich, IMO.
So be it. This only works if the Raiders have a plan, or somehow stumble onto one. Sure, they can pick from the available vets or draft a QB, but can McDaniels work with that QB? To me, that might be the more glaring question. By extension, does coaching Tom Brady to success make you a great coach? I guess we'll find out. But seeing how Brady was quick to retire instead of re-unite with his "buddy," the mystery will continue.
Meanwhile, Carr has a chip on his shoulder that could propel him to success, in the right environment... one which the Raiders never really afforded him.
So, the McZeigler era starts out by unintentionally stepping backwards. Now can they take 2 steps forward? We already saw them load the roster last off-season, so I can't help but be a bit skeptical on this year's reload.
-Gruden I (the original, Chucky!)
-Gannon
-Woodson (although, Maxx Crosby is clearly the man now).
Cheers!
Take,
This is awesome. Since '94, I think we all have to say Gruden 1 was the best coach. The best QB, for me, is a tie between Carr and Gannon. Gannon had a defense and a team built to win, Carr did not, and yet played at Gannon's level for 9 years. To be honest, I think if Carr had a team built like Gannon did, they would have been in the Super Bowl with Carr. With that said, Carr didn't need superstar players and an all star defense, he needed them to be competitive, which outside of Mack and Crosby, the defense just flat out sucks.
But look who Gannon had on defense: Romanowski, Biekert, C-Wood, Grady Jackson, Darrell Russell, Eric Allen. In 2000 and 2001, the Raiders Starting Defense had 28 sacks each season (56 sacks in two years). In 2001, they had 9 interceptions and 6 fumble recoveries, and ranked 9th in points allowed. In 2000, they had 12 interceptions, and 11 fumble recoveries, and ranked 16th in points allowed. In two years, they had 38 turnovers.
Let's look at the starting defensive stats for each year Carr played:
2014: 18 Sacks, 8 Interceptions, 2 fumble recoveries, ranked 32 in points allowed
2015: 28.5 sacks (15 by Mack), 12 interceptions, 6 fumbles, ranked 22nd in points allowed
2016: 21 sacks (11 by Mack), 12 Interceptions, 7 fumbles, 20th ranked in points allowed
2017: 25 sacks (10.5 by Mack), 3 Interceptions, 6 fumbles, 20th in points allowed
2018: 6 sacks, 10 interceptions, 2 fumbles, 32nd in points allowed
2019: 17.5 sacks (10 by Crosby), 7 interceptions, 3 fumbles, 24th ranking
2020: 15 sacks (7 by Crosby), 6 interceptions, 5 fumbles, 30th ranking
2021: 23 sacks (10 by Yannick, 8 by Crosby), 4 interceptions, 4 fumbles, 26th ranking
2022: 26.5 sacks (12.5 by Crosby), 6 interceptions, 7 fumbles, 26th ranking.
That is 210 turnovers in 9 years. Their 2 best years (2015/16) had 37 turnovers. Give me Gannon's defensive numbers for Carr, and we win the Super Bowl. You look at his numbers, and he puts up Manning/Brady like numbers. He has less turnovers than Brady does in his first 9 years. To say he is not elite is kidding yourself. He never had a defense to help the team win, and create turnovers. Crosby is awesome at sacks and rushing, but Mack helped create turnovers. Gannon, inspite of his defenses, never put up the numbers that Carr did. Carr owns, not only the top season in passing in 2021, but owns 6 of the top 10 passing seasons (1, 3, 4, 5, 7, and 8) in Raiders history, Gannon owns 2 (#2 and 10). 2014 was Carr's worst season statistically, 2017 was his 2nd worst season (broken back year), and this last season was his 3rd worst statistically. Yet all 9 of his seasons he places in the top 20 of all time Raiders' passing in a season.
Best all around player in this time: Tie between Tim Brown, C-Wood, and Mack.
To complete my thoughts on Carr. He was inconsistent, but I think that was more a reflection on the Raiders as a team. The O-line's play is inconsistent the last 3 years; the play calls this last year, when McD limited Carr's ability; and then opened the game book with Stidham. He was set up to fail this year, plain and simple. He is a free agent, and again, I think the teams he signs with and can take them to the Super Bowl are (in order):
Ravens, Giants, Seahawks, Steelers, and Patriots.
I think he is looking at these teams, and could help them reach the playoffs next season, and maybe a Super Bowl in a few years:
Colts, Panthers, Jets, Dolphins, Cardinals.
"Al anon" said, "J. Campbell- Al traded for him and thought a lot of him. Was doing a good job before an injury. When Reggie came he let him walk."
Uh, Jason Campbell was released by Hue Jackson after his injury when he traded for Carson Palmer, before Reggie walked in the building. Campbell was the best QB we had between Gannon and Carr.
Also said, "Why not build a great defense and draft a fast RB and see if a vet can help us win?"
Uh, definitely need a defense, but Jacobs just led the league in rushing and broke Marcus Allen's single season record. We need a big bruiser like Tyrone Wheatley to compliment him in short yardage and red zone situations. This is where the Raiders have hurt themselves the most, the red zone.
Nate, I think you overestimate Carr in connecting him to cold-weather teams that you listed above. Carr clearly established a pattern in his career regarding his ineffectiveness in cold weather games. Most recently, he was grossly outplayed in cold weather by Baker Mayfield, in a game which ultimately sealed his fate.
He'd be better off signing with the Saints... in terms of weather and division.
One x-factor for Gannon was his ability and willingness to extend plays with his legs, something Carr does not do.
Oh Raider Take! Oh you just don't understand''
Al was a win soon not win now guy! he didn't want to wait on a rookie to win so he used vets now understand part of his program would be to give projects and rookies time to get better and start and would get a vet or he just didn't feel the team was ready for a deep playoff run so he kept projects/ rookies on the bench.
But when he felt the team could win now, he got those vet QBs'. That was part of his program and there are many teams that won once their franchise QBs' got better but Al was winning before those teams because he knew how to find those winning veteran QBs'.
No Anon, Hue didn't release J. Campbell he was a free agent after '11 and Reggie didn't re-sign him with Palmer there.
Did you know Campbell was benched by coach Cable for awhile and the Raiders went 8-8?
Then, he was injured in game 6 and recovered but was bench again by Hue for 3 games. The Raiders lost all 3 games and missed the playoffs!
Seems the Raiders just forgot that using the best QB on the team might help you win.
Sorry other Anon I meant Raider Nate,
Hue didn't release QB J. Campbell, it was Reggie who didn't re-sign him.
Also, I noticed some of those terrible QBs' Raidernation loves to say weren't any good. Played awfully well for stretches then something strange would happen right before a winning record.
Jason Campbell was QB for one of my fondest Raiders memories, a +/- 50 pt spanking of the Broncos. He had McFadden at RB and WR.
But like every Raiders QB of the era, Campbell was inconsistent (for whatever reason).
IMO, Stidham had the best game at QB this year. If not for Miller getting destroyed in his block, Stidham might have connected on the deep sideline route at the end of the game. But then Stidham quickly fell to earth against the Chiefs.
Not much has been said, but I'd guess part of Carr's frustration was that he didn't get more opportunities to run a 2-min drill. McDaniels regularly shut down the offense to end the first half of games, even with timeouts and time on the clock.
Also, see how effective the Eagles were with short yardage plays. It looks like a rugby scrum. Where was McDaniels on that play? Snap the ball to a RB and push him through the line to gain. Think how many drives that might have saved the Raiders. At least a few.
Goodbye Derek Carr, thanks for trying your best, and for all your effort.
I put Carr in the Dak Prescott, Kirk Cousins class. Put a good team around them and they can win. But can they ever win it all ? I guess another team will have to find out about Carr.
As for the future, let's see, in AFC alone, Raiders will have to get past, Mahomes, Herbert, Burrow, Lawrence, J. Allen, and probably CJ Stroud, who I think is going to be very good, will wind up on Indy.
To face this challenge, the Raiders currently have no Qb, and one of, if not the worst defenses in the NFL.
The owner is inept, and the HC is the new version of Adam Gase. Even the Donks have managed to hire Sean Payton, and are talking about bringing in Rex Ryan as DC.
What I'm saying is...Things look very bleak in the short and long terms for the sin city Raiders.
Its' still winter and you need to make sure you have medicines, foods and vitamins to help against viruses.
Don't be too proud to get some help with that food bill. The food bank can help you find food and a way to get it home so you and your family can save money on your grocery bills and pay other bills or just save a little money for other things.
We used 2 run the AFC West:
When K.C. was on top the 1st time- yep, 4 a short time K.C. was the best in the AFL. They went 2 the SB and then finally won 1 in the late 60s'. But, the Raiders were not only winning more(?) but the NFL saw them as probably the best team event though they were getting tired of Al. 4 the next 14-15 years the Raiders kinda dominated K.C. and it wasn't until '94 by the only real evidence of Al's ruining the Raiders' chances 2 win and the 49ers' help(J. Montana) that they finally dominated us again. K.C. has been to the SB 3 times in the past 4 years.
Denver- they weren't even a problem until they got NYG QB C. Morton and the Orange Crush defense led by L. Alzado, R. Carter and R. Gradishar. they shocked the world and upset the Raiders on a questionable call on the goal line. a fumble that the whole world saw was ignored and the Raiders lost a game they should've even trailed in the Broncos slumped 4 a while but the Raiders would rebuild and go on 2 another SB 3 years later. Denver got Colts' QB J. Elway and HC Dan Reeves and dominated the AFC West from the late 80's to early 90s' they later finally won a SB in the late 90s'. They've been 2 the SB twice in the '10s'.
SD/ LAC- Al was a scout and assistant coach 4 them in the 60s'. Raidernation talks about how he ruined this team. He kicked our asses for 3 years until the Raiders hired him. He also helped build 1 of the best team in AFL-NFL history he coached some HOFers and he and HC Sid Gillman helped create the MODERN passing game.
The Chargers won an AFL Championship after he went 2 Oakland but it was he helped build that team. The Chargers went on a playoff run in the late 70s' winning division titles and wild card births. They then had up and down winning seasons in the early 2 mid 80s'. They finally went 2 the SB in '94 in a bad loss 2 the 49ers. Happy 4 that era but it would've been great 2 see D. Fouts, K. Winslow, L. Alworth and F. Dean playing in a SB.
The Raiders dominated that division with teams like the 80s' Chargers and Elways/ Reeve's Broncos and Al did some great things for the NFL. They played great teams in the NFL and AFC West and were 1 of the best using vet QBs', big, faster guys and over paid players and washed up stars/ vets. Win or lose they were trying to find something, somebody to help them reload and win again.
Maybe the new regime should try using Al's or other old legend's ideas.
Wait a minuet! Why is it bleak?
No, its' a different direction, a breath of fresh air! its' not bleak this is what Raidernation wanted!
No, they came from a dynasty, a winning machine, T. Brady, B. Bellichick!
The Pats love to take from the Raiders especially, WRs- then maybe they should take players from the Patriots and not average guys I mean pro bowlers try to make sure the Patriots get the lowest draft picks if possible.
Try to get stars from other teams 4 hardly anything in return like the Patriots did us. There's got 2 be some dysfunctional genius that can't win with talent and a good front office like Al did.
Draft a guy who Pats' guys could turn into a HOF QB.
Trade down in the draft so it won't look silly when they draft 'their guy' draft picks who might be considered reaches.
No, don't look at a veteran QB to lead the team, don't spend more on star players that could help us win, don't bring in bigger, faster, athletic guys because high character, well coached guys are better.
No, we wait 4 the Pats' guys to build this team into an elite winner.
But I think you should tell them:
1. get bigger, faster guys.
2. look for teams to make bad trades like the Raiders did with the Patriots.
3. spend more on star free agents don't break the bank but try and get some help for the run game and secondary.
4. get a fast RB. you got big, tough RBs' get somebody that can use any O-line with his speed.
Raidernation, don't give up just ask(TELL) the Pats' guys to do what the Pats did to us and use some of Al's ideas.
Upon news the Raiders just hired younger brother of Raiders OC Lombardi, someone commented on PFF, "Since day 1 this has been one of the worst staffs ever assembled."
McDaniels, Lombardi and Graham have all been huge disappointments. I'm sure the chain runs much deeper into the staff, so it's a fair point, and one that will require future game results to disprove.
Anon,... as I said, future is bleak because Raiders face a slew of star Qb's in AFC. Have to get passed them to have any hope at all of a championship.
Right now, Raiders have no Qb, and a horrible defense. The owner is a dope, and the HC, Mcdaniels is the second coming of Adam Gase.
There is no plan that I can see to address any of this. So as the Donks move up, the Raiders will fall further, and further behind.
What is there to be hopeful about ?
My fear is the owner is going to order the brass to go all out and get Aaron Rogers. Piss away another draft and any chance to build a defense.
Stick a 39 year old Rogers on this terrible team, and ask him to walk on water, turn stones to bread, and water to wine.
This kind of stupid plan is right up Mark Davis' alley. It will fail, the Raiders will lose, and MD will be off to chase yet another gimmick that won't work.
Well in that case, we need 2 build a Ravens-like D.
If you think coach Peyton makes the Broncos scary look at their defense! Did you know both V. Miller and Chubb are gone, yet the defense still looks very good?
Did you know J. Elway is basically the GM and has done a better job than all of our new regime GM? but here's the thing he was a QB yet, the offense hasn't found any great players since he was hired as in the front office they just find defensive stars.
They are bigger, faster and more athletic.
Dan Reeves didn't do this, John Fox didn't do this yet J. Elway feels this is how you build a defense.
You guys said Reggie, Pats guys the NFL way! no more athletes and speed guys we want a real NFL GM!
Gimmick! Ghost Raider- you finally got it!? the Raiders have been giving us games, tricks, band aids, gimmicks, hype just 2 keep us spending on the team.
They haven't decided what they want 2 do with the team and continue to do things that we see as dysfunction and bad management but is 'pay back' at Al and NFL tampering but is going to make them wealthier in the future.
It's L.V. not the Raiders that they want to make money off of. The Raiders were moved there 2 make the league wealthier. Believe me if they thought it would help them win again and get the old culture back they'd left them in Oakland.
They wanted a team in L.V. to fill up a stadium and succeed. But teams didn't want to move there because of the gambling connection and small market. So, they went with the team they didn't care about they could take a chance with(Raiders). They knew Raidernation would follow and make money if other fans/ tourists didn't spend on the NFL.
But they want the super bowl to make them huge money! 2 be 1 of the greatest ever. They'll make big money:
1. off Raiderantion hanging around spending.
2. tourists going to games and spending at NFL stores in L.V.
3. retail, merchandise and NFL entertainment.
4. L.V. entertainment(casinos, shows, concerts) with NFL entertainment.
This is why they moved the Raiders 2 Vegas not 2 help rebuild the team. But 2 make money off the 'Brand' and get 'pay back' at Al.
Wow Raidernation! We should get some say over our money and tell the Raiders to build a good team and lower their season ticket prices.
Safe to say the Raiders are not 1-2 players from turning a corner. They need better coaching. I really thought McDaniels would be good for the Raiders. He said he could work with Derek Carr, and he and Zeigler loaded the roster with free agents. They both failed miserably.
If McDaniels can't work with Derek Carr, who can he work with?
And forget about the job that Patrick Graham did. No lead was safe.
Raiders have many resources this year in terms of salary cap and draft picks (11), yet I can't help but be worried these guys aren't capable of pulling it together. Ghost, I'm not sure Mark Davis has another gimmick up his sleeve.
...I take that back, Gruden III.
NY, I felt the same way. I thought McD would work well with Carr; but if he can't work with him, who can he work with? No bueno. I'm afraid this is going to set us back another 20.
O.K. we are trying 2 do things like the old NFL. The new NFL says we can win this year because of the PARITY system.
It gives all 32 teams a chance 2 win more not always make the playoffs but upset good teams once in awhile.
But we were told by media/ NFL that the best way to build wasn't loading up on talent
Why aren't we winning? we have a modern franchise group of front office people.
We don't spend 2 much on star free agents, draft guys that work hard and fit a system, bring in average-good players that fit in a system or be coached up, lots of discipline and a cheaper roster. Hard work, preparation, bonuses 4 playing well- not a lot of raises.
* What Al and others did 2 win in the past!
signed star free agents guys that succeeded with other teams and find out if they can help. draft big name college stars don't just reach 4 guys all the time. and maybe the new regimes should understand guys from smaller schools can play 2 sometimes don't just keep taking guys from Clemson, Alabama and OSU.
You can have average guys who are hard working and high character and coach em up but sometimes you can use bigger, faster athletic guys to create mismatches and other problems for other teams.
You pressure your coaches to try other things to win and get their players motivated.
But that's not going 2 help us we're supposed to use high character, tough and passionate guys in cheaper, well coached system that's what wins these days. But 4 some reason hasn't in L.V. yet.
If being average-good wins then we should have some division titles and playoff games already.
Has parity (bad teams drafting first) ever been a one-year fix? I doubt it. IMO, it can only work over time and only if you make smart decisions in the draft which, clearly, the Raiders have not.
In the Raiders world, parity is a myth. The NFL has its many flaws and corruptions, but it can't be blamed for the Raiders poor choices.
I want to answer (correct) my own question. I guess one-year fixes do happen when teams draft smart, like the Bengals selecting Joe Burrow, not like the Raiders selecting JaMarcus Russell. If you go up and down the Raiders recent draft history, it's a who's who of overreaches and busts. It epitomizes bad scouting and draft mismanagement that's reserved for the worst teams.
It's actually remarkable the Raiders could be as bad as they've been in the draft. Even bad fund managers can keep pace with the S&P index.
The Pats' boys need to go with their talents. Now, Zeigler also worked for Denver, if he can act like Elway and find bigger, faster defensive players we might be able to go with a veteran QB and make the playoffs.
BTW....why is it that EVERYTIME the NFL/ media claim the Raiders look good do we support it then when the pre season is over we are very nervous about the season?
A franchise QB a vet? what would Al and the 4 regimes do with a veteran or a franchise QB?
Al and franchise QBs/ Raidernation doesn't think he was good at it in fact they think J. Russell may've been the biggest QB bust in NFL history- not close to the truth. Would Al draft and go with a rookie or trade for a young QB? If he did he would be very careful with who he bought in but he would make sure new QBs' would have talent around them. C. Palmer was a franchise QB but would Al been happy with him?
A Vet QB Al would've found a good one- some in Raidernation didn't like his picks during the slump but some won with less talented teams.
Gruden II- he was supposed to be a QB teacher but he didn't work well with Carr. He did make Mariota look good. I think he could make a QB very good.
Gruden could work with vets and with a Mariota, Collins, Brooks or even K. Boller he would've made them better.
Reggie- ummmm......he found a star(D. Carr) he came from a winning system with a franchise QB. But he wasn't very good at turning one into a star player. Carr did o.k. but if the were with Al, Pats' guys or Gruden earlier, he might've been a top NFL QB.
Reggie traded for/ signed some good QBs' but some were injured or not used to playing with teams like this.
M. Flynn was injured so its' not fair to really criticize him but it wasn't a good trade. M. Schuab was a good QB but now was with a team rebuilding so it was tough on him to have to try and lead the Raiders.
Pats' guys- if you go with media hype these guys are supposed to QB experts. Carr was supposed to be a pro bowler with these guys teaching him but it didn't work out. its' hard to judge these guys, because its' not that the hype wasn't true, IMO.....I think they just didn't want Carr. his bad play this year- was it him or something they were doing to make mess up? they weren't planning to keep him after '22.
The Pats' had two veterans C. Brissett, a guy from Michigan St., even signed ex-Raiders' QBs' A. Walter and I think C. Cook over the years(Jimmy G. was a franchise- back up type) but never really had a vet QB as a back up . They just aren't used to using veterans but need to find a winning veteran QB who can lead them to or knows how to help coaches to make players better to go to the playoffs.
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NY Raider,
You are oh so close to making both our points but mostly mine!
PARITY isn't hard to understand you seem to think that its' some kind of system not relevant to a team's success. You don't seem to understand what the NFL thinks about it- Its' a way to make money off fans still INTERESTED because their teams are STILL in the playoff race late in the season. But not just good teams but mediocre ones.
Teams didn't have to build up and spend a lot to win anymore. Instead of needing the best or experienced Vet QBs' and top RBs' you could win with less. No top QBs', RBs and expensive coaches you can win with game manager QBs/ coaches and a good defense.
But, if you have a lot of talent, shouldn't you be a top team? Yea, right doesn't make a lot of sense does it? The Raiders were already winning when they well, started losing but still were talented. So, even if they made mistakes and were playing mediocre shouldn't they be one of the league's best teams with the talent and a good front office?
SINCE PARITY('99-present):
One team has won 7 super bowls
Two of the best teams in NFL history(Dallas/ L.V.) hadn't won a playoff game in over 20 years.
I think all 32 teams have made the playoffs once since '99.
the same teams go to the playoffs:
Manning's Colts
Bree's Saints
Manning's NYG
Packers
Steelers
Patriots
Panthers
later:
Broncos
Brady's Buccaneers
K.C.
the game is sloppy, mediocre and over priced.
When a team gets upset by an average teams that's great when groups of average teams dominate a league that's shady.
* The new NFL PARITY system:
Don't spend a lot on players, there's no relevant union, star players cannot
deal for the biggest salaries because ALL owners are unified in keeping his salary lower, its' illegal for an owner to keep revenue from big business deals to him/ her self.
Its great when an average team can be prepared, motivated, disciplined and stays focused can make the playoffs but are you sure it was the Raiders' roster that was that bad- so bad they couldn't win in a PARITY league? You claim they didn't have talent after '03 so wouldn't that make them mediocre or bad and wouldn't that mean they had a good chance to win in a PARITY league? you really believe those draft picks('03-'11) were so bad they couldn't win?
This is Al's strongest areas' over that 9 year slump:
2 pro bowl kickers, pro bowl ls, some of the best KR/ PRs' in NFL(C. Carr, J. Ford, N. Miller).
very good and pro bowl DLs(W. Sapp, C. Clemons, D. Burgess, R. Seymore, T. Kelly, D. Bryant, T. Armstrong, K. Wimbley, T. Scott, B. Davis Jr., M. Brodine)
top 5 secondaries(Nnamdi, S. Routt, C. Johnson, D. Hall, T. Branch, T. Poole, M. Giardano)
above average-pro bowl WRs'(R. Moss, T. Brown, N. Miller, L. Murphy, J. Ford, J. Porter, D. Moore, R. Curry, D. Gabriel)
outstanding RBs'(C. Garner, J. Fargas, DMAC)
now, NY again, in a PARITY system where mediocrity-average can win, how is it that 31 other teams have a chance except one?
How can a team keep making mistakes in a league where you can make a little more mistakes with a level playing field?
What you're saying about Al's dysfunction is wrong but to even say that any NFL team is doing badly that it can't win at all over 9 years doesn't make sense.
The simple truth about parity is that it can (does) work, just not for the Raiders. Being smart is a prerequisite that the Raiders have fallen short.
Stupid is as stupid does. After perennially making the playoffs and winning three super bowls, it took Al two decades to bring the Raiders back to prominence. In the process, he notoriously benched the greatest RB in Raiders history. Then, just when he had it in his reach, he traded away a super bowl-headed HC to save his ego.
That's the culture that has caused the Raiders to fail. It's been one bad decision after another. After so many years of watching the insanity, I can't say for sure if the Raiders three super bowls (which I watched all three) were because of Al or despite Al..., the man, the legend, the brand!
Well, so this is the truth about Al. Finally exposed! It wasn't him that made the Raiders a winning team- so the sad truth is out:
It was scout/ assistant GM R. Wolfe who built those winning teams not Al. Al just helped.
When he was with the LACs' it was others and HC Sid Gillman who found those All-Star players and future HOFers. Al allegedly helped guys become All-Stars and future HOFers but it was really the whole Chargers' front office that helped.
When Al started winning again in the '00s', it was Gruden that was behind the reloading not him.
Those 3(should've been 5-8) super bowls were despite Al. It was the assistants, not Al that built those teams. They had to deal with all of his bad decisions but were able to take advantage of the other SB team's mistakes to win 3 super bowls.
When W. Valley, E. McGraugh hired Al it was a huge mistake. They should've hired others like R. Wolfe to be coach/ GM instead of him. No telling where the Raiders could've gone if Wolfe had been hired. What a terrible hire, yea, it would've been funny if the Chargers had kept him.
This guy was so bad at drafting players. Everybody knows it was his scouts especially assistant GM R. Wolfe who found his best players.
This guys and QBs' Wow! remember J. Russell? He only drafted 1 good QB(K. Stabler) and boy was he bad at finding 1. It was the defense not his QBs' that helped team win- his QBs'(Gannon, Plunket, Blanda and Lamonica) just handed off the ball.
* So- LAC's HC S. Gillman had a HOF staff that had Al, Steelers' C. Noll
27 HOFers and counting
Al drafted 9 HOFers(Long, Shell, Upshaw, Biletnikoff, Allen, C-Wood, Casper, Stabler, T. Brown).
9 different HOFers asked Al 2 be their HOF rep. Now, I guess they forgot about poor Mr. Wolfe.
If Al had stayed with the Chargers? IMO-
1. the Raiders wouldn't look so good.
2. the Chargers would be the most hated team in the NFL.
3. Bolt Nation, thunder house?/ bolt? land(black hole).
4. Chargers would've been 1 of winningest teams in pro-sports.
note: If Al became owner or the Chargers let him do what he wanted 2 do.
traded Gruden to save his ego?:
I don't know if he traded him to save his ego if he thought he could lead them to the SB. Its' another mystery as 2 why this team suddenly lost.
I guess Al did stuff like Civil/ Union rights, signing Afro/ Latino American players, helping create the modern passing game and a defensive back move called the "Bump and run". Maybe others helped him come up with those ideas, maybe his PR Dept. or other NFL people helped him, he just did it 2 get praise from people.
culture failed- Al caused that?:
from '63 to '02 that culture was 1 of the most successful in pro sports.
he was trying 2 win and would go further than many GMs' 2 do it.
Reggie and Pats' guys culture: don't spend, be conservative, manage the salary cap, don't get involved in union and player rights but play them till they drop. don't show loyalty to the players?
A league that is so great a good team with good front office can't beat its' PARITY system teams once in 9 years and a man that is exposed as a fake by fans who are beginning to think he didn't build the Raiders into a winner in the past and just hung around causing problems until the team just lost in a 9 year slump. A man who did nothing but took the credit 4 others building the Raiders.
Wow Raidernation! you sure are victims of a fake GM. How can we stand it! And I guess the HOFers, the great hires(Madden, LaCossale, Gruden and Wolfe) were others helping him?
Dude, your crisscrossing eras and spinning the discussion is nonsensical. At some point - pick a point - the once great Al Davis and the Raiders jumped the shark and have never recovered. To deny that is to deny the truth. You keep looking out your window during a monsoon and tell us it's not windy.
Q: Why do you think Al Davis traded Jon Gruden to the Bucs?
If you can answer that question honestly, you and I might find some common ground. But please, so I can understand, make it short and stick to the question. It's not a trick question, and the answer isn't deep routed in the 60's or 70's, and probably not the 80's or 90's either. I'd really like to understand why Davis traded Gruden. In that moment, what was his logic?
NY, Al Davis traded Gruden for two reasons. One, Gruden was honestly thinking of leaving and I don't think I'll wanted to pay him what other franchises were willing to. Two, there was somewhat of an underlying personality conflict between them over who was getting the credit. I think I'll thought Gruden had run his course and it was better to trade him and receive compensation which he received a boatload of then lose him for nothing. Regards Sandy
Voice to Text problem on my last post I meant to say Al and it came out as I'll. Can we start talking about the draft at least that's not depressing. Sandy
If Al had been traded to the Bucs instead of Al, the Bucs would be hated but 1 of the best teams in the NFL('01).
If the Chargers made Al GM there might be a Raidernation and the Chargers would be an awesome team and 1 of the best ever in the NFL. I don't know where the Raiders would be/
If the man who hired Al into the NFL, Colts
HC Mr. Eubank, had known who he was and the Colts had made him assistant GM, Wow! think of all those ridiculous moves they made, they'd be 1 of the best teams in NFL history, 1 of the winningest in pro sports, with some of the greatest players ever and 1 and respected for its' Civil Rights work.
Now, do you know how many times I've heard you say nobody wanted to work for Al? So, could Gruden have asked to be traded? I know I don't believe that either. It was a bad move, but Al got draft picks and I think he did a good job with those picks. Many fans think Gruden(and Gannon) leaving caused the slump. And suddenly, a winning team just lost; it didn't lose guys or get bad over a few years it just lost.
Losing Gruden may've cost a few wins but Al isn't letting anybody be that important that they couldn't be replaced. Either he lost his key guy and couldn't recover or something else was going on.
BTW....IMO....I though Al was WAY ahead of the NFL and team issues. He already had a plan 2 replace Gruden and was looking at other guys but he was able 2 HIRE his guy.
But like the decades you don't want 2 talk about something strange happened. Things sounding shady- a bad joke and 2 hard 2 believe.
Somebody told Cowboys' S. Peyton not 2 work for Al/ Raiders(?)! Was this a rumor, a fans' conspiracy theory? Al never hired coach Peyton! No!
But if this is true, why tell a coach that? Who is this SOMEBODY?
You don't think its' the same NFL that is rumored to hate him do you? That they would try and mess Raiders up do you?
You mean, the Raiders were so dysfunctional that no good coach should work for them? There's nothing coach Peyton could've learned from or worked with in Oakland?
All you have to do is look at what Al did with the haul he got from Tampa for Gruden. This will tell you the state that the Raiders were in. Did the league force Al to draft all those duds? To over pay players to come to Oakland and have those players disgrace the team with their I'm here for the paycheck attitudes? Raiders were looked at as a circus and many still look at the Raiders today, in this light. I think your vision may be clouded with a deep man love for Al? It's like when we were kids and we thought our Dad's were better than everyone else's. But as you grow older, you see they are just a human being, like the rest of us.
Al-guy, Al wasn't GM of any other team. He was GM of the Raiders. I don't think you're being honest with yourself. After riding Gruden's coattails for one season, the Raiders faceplanted against Gruden in the Super Bowl and pretty much every season since. I don't know how anyone can prop that up as some kind of a win for Al Davis or the Raiders. Anyone age 20 years or less only know the Raiders as losers. That's an entire generation. That's what we're up against, still. Parity is a fiction for the Raiders, and the Raiders brand is dying a slow and painful death. There's no nobility in that.
NY Raider and other Anon!,
If a guy is going 2 pay a guy who is getting older, whose team wants to let him walk because of his contract, is known 2 respect players
WHY would anybody 'screw' that guy? what is it about Tomlin, Bellichick and Reid that is so great that guys will take less to play 4 them but not a guy who tries to be fair 2 them(except Marcus)?
But wait, he not only paid these guys, the Raiders got into politics with the NFL over Union rights. And guys talked about how glad they are not 2 be in Oakland?
that's not only ignorant it shows some people care only about or have some strange loyalty to a league that isn't loyal 2 the players.
The Raiders won despite Al(super bowls)? If Al hadn't been hired by the Raiders there might not be a super bowl title!
Dude!....really!? do you know what these owners(except J. Jones, Snyder) think about the NFL? its' a way 2 make money the players are like
They want a league were all 32 teams cooperate(?) when it comes to:
1. sharing revenue
2. being politically correct
3. managing the salary cap
4. a plan 2 have new stadiums in every NFL city
The Gruden trade?: that haul would've been huge for 31 other teams. I don't think they were the problem. The Raiders were losing no matter who they brought in. Megatron?- you had R. Moss. Gannon- you had K. Collins and C. Palmer. See your biggest issue is you hold these guys 2 some ridiculous standard that they're not good players when you know those draft picks were hyped by the same media that claimed Reggie was gonna make you a winner again.
Yet the other regimes reached and made some questionable picks. Nooo, they may've been questionable but they weren't the bad picks Al made.
If any of the 31 teams made those picks in the Gruden trade those guys would doing o.k. Al drafted some good players and they were still defending AFC Champions after that 1st draft. Then they started losing and it wasn't the rookies that caused it it was well, we don't really know but those guys were good picks in a bad situation that wasn't Al's fault.
1. nobody could succeed no matter how good or bad.
2. successful coaches couldn't succeed
3. coaches/ players were told not to work for Al/ Raiders.
4. players were lucky to leave Oakland 2 have a chance to succeed.
O.K. so the Raiders really got bad and dysfunctional. So badly that players wanted 2 leave and others didn't want 2 go there.
Well, when did this happen? I have years of players' comments and guys signing with them 2 show it was the other way around so much so that there are players and media who will tell you how much Al meant to some in NFL circles and clicks.
media/ NFL's/ fan's/ haters' side('03-'11):
Worst team in the NFL and have "viturally no chance of winning"!
Oakland- a place were careers go 2 die
a place to collect a check
a farm system 4 other teams(Patriots?)
Al's side('63-'02):
history of turning washed up players into pro bowlers and future HOFers
pride, poise and potential
commitment to excellence
a team of washed up vets, projects and misfits
guys are on the phone saying they want 2 play for the Raiders- Gruden II.
some of Al's ex-players later worked for him as assistants.
Stop it guys! really!?
Okay, maybe I reached too far for an honest assessment of the past 20 years.
Sandy, you're right, we should be talking about free agency and the draft. This is the most important off-season since Derek Carr was drafted. Raiders need a QB!
I like the top two QB prospects, however, there's slim to no chance either will be available to the Raiders, and I hope they don't give away the farm to move up. Aaron Rodgers only has a cap hit of $31M this year, which might actually be doable. But if it's Rodgers, McDaniels will need to back off and let Rodgers and Adams steal the show. It can't be about McDaniels trying to remake Rodgers into the QB McDaniels thinks he should be.
But if the Raiders spend all their resources on Rodgers and Jacobs, what's left to remake the defense? They have the resources to do it all, but do they have the chops?
Al-guy, I'm scratching my head trying to figure out what you're defending the last 20 years. It's really indefensible. Here's a quick summary. Many of these guys you've prop up like they were heroes.
Timeframe: Post-Gruden I (38-26) and surging! Traded to Bucs!
Al's guys (by name and W-L):
Bill Callahan (15-17) a loser despite being gifted Jon Gruden's surging team.
Norv Turner (9-23). Solid OC, he sucked as HC.
Art Shell II (2-14). Return to the B&B years.
Lane Kiffin (5-15). The overhead projector drama. Where crazy and indignant intersect.
Tom Cable. (17-27). Cable hung in there, broke a jaw or two, but was never the answer.
Hue Jackson (8-8). A winner by then-Raiders' standards, except it was tough to see where Al's ass ended and Jackson's lips began.
Enter the Reggie McKenzie era. McKenzie fixed Al's cap hell, but to no end for the Raiders woes.
Jackon gone!
Dennis Allen in (8-28)
Tony Sparano (3-9). Nice guys finish last.
Jack Del Rio (25-23). The winningest HC in Raiders modern era. Del Rio unwittingly staged his own demise by letting Bill Musgrave (the star of his success) walk.
Enter the Gruden II era.
Starring, himself, Jon Gruden as fearless leader (11-21). He was better with Gannon!
Rich Bisaccia (7-5) and rolling when asked to leave (in hindsight...).
Enter Zeigler era.
Josh McDaniels (6-11). Took a good team and made them losers again.
This is where we stand. I'm not seeing the silver lining.
Many scenarios have the Raiders trading Jacobs or Waller and/or Renfrow as well as draft picks for access to top-two QBs. I think I'd rather the Raiders get a vet QB and load up on defense with draft picks.
To NY Raider and other Anon,
B. Callighan you guys must liked this guy he allegedly didn't like the Raiders and was happy being an assistant. He threw them under the bus before the season was over. They were defending AFC Champions, the best team in the AFC! What was it that made them a bad team in '03 yea, right, they had 2 be 1 of the best teams in the AFC until they lost that title and that had 2 be after the regular season! Yet!, he feels the need 2 put the whole team down! 1 of the best teams ever put together! It was people telling people not 2 work 4 Al, bringing bad attitudes, not doing better and not caring. That's not on Al, some of these guys were pro bowlers' how would he know their attitudes? Its on them not the team if they collected a pay check and didn't care about the team.
Del Rio was let go because the NFL wanted to move Raiders 2 L.V. and they needed a leader fans would support being in L.V.(Gruden).
Turner more than good enough 2 be a HC. He proved it by going to San Diego and kicking our asses for years. He was an outstanding OC and learned from some good HCs' over the years.
Kiffin was a top assistant but not ready, something happened 2 get him fired. But he had everything you could ask 4 in a future HC/ GM but not ready, mature or honest enough 2 be an NFL head coach.
Nobody can be so silly 2 believe a legend and icon a genius who was STILL doing well can't win 1 season 4 nine years.
A team that loaded 1 of the best ever built bette ONLY the Steelers and the LB loving, big QB system, S.F. and Dallas can dare companer
That team in '03 had
2 future HOF WRs'
2 future HOF DBs'
pro bowl D-linemen
good back up QBs(Gannon was injured)
now what team do you know had that kind of talent in '03? I've heard that Patriots' stuff for decades yea, Brady is a great QB! yea Bellichick can coach up a good not great team but there are other ways' that's their way! that's what the league wants for all 32 teams good high character players with a franchise QB with game managers/ great coaches that can lead them! without spending a lot on star players! it sound cool but its' a scam and a con job!
2 be so silly that you think K.C. is great but not the way they built and they built based on Al or Dallas. Bigger, faster guys! and the media doesn't get on their case. If that doesn't work for Al how does it work for coach Reid?
J. Elway builds his defense like Al. Big, fast linemen and press CBs! nobody ask "where are the average and high character guys on defense"?
No, the only fan base that silly are the 1's in New England but they have SB wins and Oakland who got conned by the media when Al went into a slump to support the league doing all kinds of things 2 the team and thinking it was to help them! Bad decisions, bad management? You are a new era and are in better shape than when Al was running the team? in L.V. and not winning?
Al-Guy, your recollection of events is puzzling. You obvious know a lot about the Raiders but you crisscross eras and hold individual player accolades above team success. Worse, you completely ignore the heavy-handed methods of Al Davis which led to the Raiders having all these bad coaches (during this period!!!) Nobody else would work for him.
Bill Callahan staged his release by calling out the Raiders as the dumbest team in football. Turns out, they were only following his lead. His brief success in 2002 was thanks to Jon Gruden, to which Callahan returned the favor by not changing Gruden's playbook for the super bowl. Did you not read the newspaper back then? The Bucs players were very appreciative.
Norv Turner has a losing record as HC in the NFL. That speaks for itself. His brief stint with the Raiders is only a fraction of his failures as HC.
Kiffin, son of Monte, wasn't AL's first choice, maybe not his second choice. At a minimum, Kiffin was coerced into accepting Al's heavy-handed method. He might have been a decent HC for the Raiders but he was never allowed to think on his own. Did you miss the OH projector news conference?
The move to LV was years after Del Rio was fired. These are not connected in any way. Del Rio failed. He was fired for that reason and Mark Davis's infatuation with Gruden.
What about Art Shell, Tom Cable and Hue Jackson? No props for them? These were all Al's guys.
You regularly conflate Al's early years and historic successes in the NFL with his later years and considerable failures. These are both true and part of Al's legacy.
For the record, Al's biggest failure was not mentoring his son and overseeing a smooth transition of his legacy over to competent hands. So, NO, Mark's failures of today do not make me wish for return to Al's failures of the past.
Mark Davis had already made the decision that Gruden was going to be the HC in 2018, while the Raiders were beginning to start Training Camp in 2017. Gruden and Del Rio shared the same agent. I think Del Rio knew what was happening, and didn't even try. Gruden played 2 more seasons in Oakland before the move to Vegas in 2020.
On to the draft/free agency. Rumors are swirling the Raiders are going hard after Mac Jones. I'm not sold, and I'm not sold on Rodgers or Jimmy G either. I'd rather re-sign Jacobs, and get a QB like Case Keenum or Teddy Bridgewater; go with a run heavy offense with a QB who won't make many mistakes but can get the ball to Adams. Then use the $$ to build the defense and draft a rookie QB. I also think Cam Newton is a possibility to come back with the Raiders and McDaniels. Cam liked working with Josh until he got injured in NE. I don't think Jarrett Stidham is their #1 choice to start, or they would have signed him already.
As far as the draft, I think Jalen Carter (DT, Georgia) or Joey Porter II (CB, Penn St) is our first pick. I also think the Raiders go with a mid to late round pick for a QB to build up. Here is who I am looking at:
Dorian Thompson-Robinson (QB, UCLA), 3,154 yards, 70% completion, 27 TD's, 10 Int's.
Jake Haener (QB, Fresno St), 2896 yards, 72% completion, 20 TDs, 3 Ints. Played with Graham in Sr Bowl and did amazing. I think his stock is rising after the Senior Bowl. Very comparable to DC when he was coming out of college.
Stetson Bennett (QB, Georgia) 4127 yards, 68% completion, 27 TDs, 7 Ints
Grayson McCall (QB, Coastal Carolina), 2700 yards, 70% completion, 24 TDs, 2 Ints. I think he could be a QB who breaks into the NFL good and be a surprise that nobody has heard of.
Cannot forget Hendon Hooker (QB, Tennessee). He is injured, and will go in 3 or 4th round; but if someone drafts him and he sits for a year; he will be dangerous QB. To me, he is very comparable to a modern day Randall Cunningham. I always wanted the Raiders to get Randall in Free Agency. He is with the Raiders currently as their chaplain.
As much as Fletcher Cox and Javon Hargrave intrigue me as FA DT's, I think the Raiders are looking to get the most bang for their buck. Those guys are going to ask for bank. I think the Raiders target DT's like:
David Onyemata (Saints), bring back Justin Ellis (Giants), Da'Ron Payne (Commanders), and Dalvin Tomlinson (Vikings).
Also, not sure they bring back Clelin Ferrell, so do they go after a young DE in the draft as depth chart like Tuli Tuipulotu (DE, USC), or Keion White (DE, Georgia Tech) with their second pick? Or do they go after FA's for depth here? Samson Ebukam (9ers) and Dawunae Smoot (Jags) I think would be great value picks. Larry Ogunjobi (Steelers), Akiem Hicks (Bucs), Morgan Fox (Chargers), Dre'Mont Jones (Doncos) would be solid as well.
Another area I see needing help is OG. There is not much in the draft that could start right away in this position, accept Peter Skoronski (Northwestern); but he is a first rounder. I think FA is the place for here. Trai Turner (Commanders), Dan Feeney (Jets), and Nick Gates (Giants) would be value FA. Another option would be to sign Jermaine Eluemunor back and move him to Guard from RT, and sign a RT. Again, not much in this department regarding the draft. Mike McGlinchey (9ers) is the top RT in FA; but there is a value pick who knows McDaniels in Marcus Cannon; but he is 34/35 years old. Germain Ifedi would be another ideal RT/RG scenario, especially if we re-sign Eluemunor. In this scenario, I'd keep Eluemunor at RT and Ifedi at RG; who has had a better career there.
Just my thoughts...
Just spitballing but I believe the timeline to LV is incorrect. Around that time I believe the Raiders were on the list to move to LA, but the NFL picked the Rams and Chargers. Subsequently (or concurrently), efforts were made to stay in Oakland. While it's long-been talked about, I believe the NFL resisted LV because of its longstanding policy against betting. It wasn't until they really had no choice, after fighting with Oakland and not having adequate alternate plans for the Raiders, who were turned down for relocation to LA. Of course, they also followed the money to LV. Creed overcame any fear of gambling.
Saying this was all decided while Del Rio was HC seems a bit too early, IMO. But, hey, I'm no expert.
"Greed!" NFL "greed" overcame gambling concerns. Always good to read before posting...
"Many scenarios have the Raiders trading Jacobs or Waller and/or Renfrow as well as draft picks for access to top-two QBs. I think I'd rather the Raiders get a vet QB and load up on defense with draft picks."
Have to disagree with you on this NYR. If Raiders can use #7 pick and one, two, or even three of these players to get into top two of draft, they should do it in a heart beat.
I love Jacobs, but by the time Raiders are good again, he will not be the same runner. Waller is an athletic type TE, built more like a wide receiver. Renfrow is a great slot receiver, but seems fragile and prone to injury.
My two cents, but if possible, Raiders should make this move.
Ghost---make the move into the top two for who? CJ or Bryce? Or one of the two defensive stars such as Anderson or Carter?
I would not be in favor of that because it would mean giving up next year's number 1. Waller and 7 does not do it. Also I am not convinced on any QB. I like Stroud the best but I would rather sit at 7 and end up with Levis. None of the 4 QBs (Young, Stroud, Richardson or Levis) are close to an Andrew Luck type sure thing. It is litteraly a coin flip that you take one and they turn into Zach Wilson or Sam Darnold.
NY, If the Raiders can get Rogers for a 2nd round pick or pehaps next years 1st rounder I would consider it. Otherwise OL (Skoronski or Johnson) or CB (the guy from Illnois can rember his name right now or Gonzalez on Oregon.
Nate I think they could trade down and get Porter. I would be okay with DE Tyree Wilson or Van Ness from Iowa at 7 as well. Skoronski was a tackle in college. A great talent at guard is O'Cyruss Torrence from Florida I watched many of his games he never gave up a sack n college and is a devastating run blocker he should be picked in the teens and will be a pro bowler. There is good offensive line talent in the first round that can be had with trading down such as Jones from Georgia and Darnell Wright from Tensee both can immediatley start at tackle.
If I am Raider GM I am trading down in the first for in exchange for a 1 and a 2. Then I would take 2 offensive lineman, 1 CB and 1 d line with those three picks.
As far as QB who the hell know Ziegler, Davis and McDaniels fucked that up royally, Rogers aside Raiders go into next year with a much worse QB than Carr. Probably Garapolla or Stidham. Gusy like Hendon Hooker or Tanner McKee are interesting but the chances of them turning into better players than Carr is very slight.
FA I like Javon Hargrave DT from the Eagles and JEsse Bates saftey from Cincinnati.
One final note on the whole Al Davis posts, Al's biggest problem in the 90s and 2000s was not having a great QB. Hoestler and Gannon were the only above average ones. Remember Pete Rozell voided the Raiders trade with the Colts to get Elway. Had that happened I am sure we would have won a few more super bowls. Al of the 70s and 80s was a the best. Yes he fell off int he 90s and 2000s but lets not forget ther ewere four playoff years in the 90s including a conference championship game and 3 playoff appearnace in the early 2000s including a super bowl appearnce. There were awful years in between but
i would take either of Al's last two decades compared to Mark's 11 years at the helm.
Sandy
Sandy
Nobody else would work 4 Al?: coach Peyton did! and what happened SOMEBODY TOLD him not to work 4 the Raiders! I thought N. Turner, H. Jackson and L. Kiffin were outstanding coaches with baggage and inexperience.
N. Turner wasn't the best HC but he sure was good in San Diego if he had a losing record it was hard 2 believe. He just suddenly became a winning HC after leaving us.
True, L. Kiffin wasn't Al 1st choice but he was talented and had all the things 2 make into a good coach/ assistant in the NFL but his immaturity and the problems already there caused him and Al to have problems and he was fired.
Del Rio was let go solely because the NFL knew they were moving the Raiders 2 L.V.
They didn't know if an NFL team could succeed there and owners didn't want 2 move 2 a new city if the NFL couldn't show that it's revenue plans were a sure thing.
So, they wanted that L.V. money and decided 2 find somebody they didn't worry 2 much about having to fix if the L.V. plan failed. They'd just fix that team's money losses if fans didn't come but they knew these fans would follow their team anywhere so, the league would get stadium revenue even if the team sucked and NFL events were canceled(SB, contests, shows).
Oh yea, other Anon Al was heavy handed and he did do things 2 ruin Raiders' chances of winning(Allen), but not during the slump. No, he built an AFC elite team but it just lost(?).
Callighan?: why would any coach not change the playbook? how can it be Al's fault if he did that? what other reasons would a guy do something that strange?
The NFL/ owners:
were upset with Al about the CBA
were upset with him and NFLPA boss G. Upshaw about the union's voting against the CBA.
were angry with Al about J. Russell's rookie contract because it forced them 2 spend more on draft picks.
were upset because Al voted against some of their plans for the league.
were upset that he was suing the Buccaneers.
were unhappy that he was moving 2 slow 2 get a new stadium in Oakland.
were upset he was paying star free agents more that forced them 2 pay their vets more.
were unhappy that he sued the city of Oakland and Los Angeles.
Now Raidernation, the Raiders just lost in '03 and haven't won a playoff game since.
Now, I think its' o.k. 2 want to make everything honest fair but 2 believe that a corporation can't be corrupt is kinda strange.
A fan base that's seen them do some very shady things 2 Al's Raiders now supports them but now, believes they wouldn't/ didn't do anything to the Raiders over a 40 year period.
They might hate Al but they'd never do anything 2 him. You know they hated him and they did things 2 the team in the past.
But you think it was just small things. O.K. Well, Al did a lot 2 them and they didn't like it. The old NFL, they did things 2 the Raiders and he did things 2 them.
But this is a new NFL and these are billionaire and he somehow made them angry. They are powerful and want the 32 teams 2 cooperate in making revenue and getting corporate money.
They have power, money and friends and they are working together and the NFL office supports them. Al was fighting the NFL.
Do you really believe this NFL can't intimidate its' members and owners and employees?
This team was elite in '02 then just lost in '03 and hasn't been able to win since.
NO team loses for 9 years and if the team was elite and had a genius owner and they hated the guy isn't there some areas 2 look into or at least something strange about Al's slump?
It's hard to read. So many excuses. It's a wonder the Raiders won any games with the weight of all that on their shoulders. Yes, there was something strange about Al's slump. As unfortunate as it is, Davis simply became too old to micromanage the organization.
Davis thought he could do everything on his own right til the end, so he wore all the top brass hats in the organization and never had a defined hierarchy. You want to blame the big bad NFL as forcing the Raiders out of the win-column. The Raiders wounds were mostly self-inflicted.
But even much earlier, it's well known that Al did not want to pay elite HCs, that's why we got stuck with a string of losers. As Anon 2 eluded earlier, Gruden's elevated status and increasing pay scale are at least part of why he was traded. Gruden was the best chance the Raiders had in 30 years but, let's face it, Al didn't like Gruden getting that recognition. Just like he didn't like Marcus Allen being the face of the org.
Kiffin's youth and inexperience was his downfall. But not how you see it. It gave Davis card blanche to micromanage his HC. Kiffin, a protege of Monte Kiffin, wanted to actually coach the Raiders, but got coached himself. That's how that marriage ended. I wrote about that here.
Cut and paste the URL below from Raider Take and scroll down to second article - "Time to Cut Ties with Kiffin?". It will tell you my feelings about Lane Kiffin in real time.
http://www.raidertake.com/2008/02/
By blaming everyone but the organization, you've set the bar incredibly low for the Raiders. It seems like a losing culture has permeated all levels of the Raiders brand. I wonder if the Raiders ever recover.
Blame:
M. Allen '87
J. Russell '07
T. Marinovich '91
bad hires?: No, SOMEBODY got in his business and blocked the coach Peyton hire('03).
N. Turner was lead San Diego 2 the playoffs in the early '00s'.
L. Kiffin and H. Jackson are HCs, in college.
self inflicted wounds('03-'11)?: an elite team suddenly loses without any real reason, people telling players and coaches not 2 work for Al, unheard of media attacks on the team, players quitting on the team, scheduling bias, ref bias(decades of unfair treatment).
Now NY, the whole purpose of hiring Kiffin was to micromanage him. Al would 1 of the most important people 2 learn from. What was it you thought Kiffin knew about the NFL 2 just come out of college and start coaching?
Losing culture?: No, Al's culture was gone by '13. Reggie got rid of all of that Al system. What culture are you talking about its' 4 of them now!
Al- commitment to excellence, size, speed and athleticism, us against the world.
Reggie- manage the salary cap, conservative spending, high character and toughness over size and speed, let the coaches coach.
Gruden II?- talk Raider glory but you can't do much because the NFL hired you and didn't want you 2 go back 2 Al's culture.
That's why the Raiders were reaching, they weren't allowed 2 draft elite college players. Why? because the league wants an NFL system and no signs of Al's culture or ideas. But they wanted us 2 keep spending on the 'brand' the team could win but do it cheaply and while Gruden rebuilds we're supposed 2 enjoy L.V., new stadium and be loyal to the NFL/ Raiders' even if they kept losing we just wait on the rebuild/ a run of winning seasons by the Gruden II regime.
The Pats guys?- They have the experience and background(training QBs' T. Brady and Jimmy G. learning from coach Bellichick). They're gonna make Carr a star and turn this thing around. They can't be judge 4 one year but they've already:
1. traded 2 high draft picks for a pro-bowl WR. When Hue did it for a pro bowl QB he was criticized
2. let Carr go without much compensation. this is why you need that Al, Rooney's or J. Jones leadership. 2 let your young QB go without a plan and then have highly paid receivers with no vet QB is not a good idea of a good front office or the best situation for next season.
3. ruined the salary cap for signing free agents but they probably wouldn't sign star free agents anyway.
* Davis was qualified 2 run things on his own just as Jimmy Johnson did. And coach Johnson was nowhere near as experienced as Al was.
A HC, assistant, scout, athletic directer, owner, league commissioner and GM.
He did allow B. Allen, R. Wolfe and Gruden 2 make moves and give advise.
Didn't want 2 pay elite HCs'?: Well, these PARITY teams don't like to pay elite players!
Well, he sure screwed Marcus that's true. I don't know if he didn't like him but he sure ruined a lot of Marcus' career and kept us from having more winning seasons in the 90s'.
didn't want 2 pay an elite HC?: We paid a HC his ex-HC a huge salary and it didn't help us much.
But then if nobody wanted 2 work for him how could he sign an elite HC?
I have a problem calling the team "elite" and blaming an unconscionable stream of failures on outside forces.
That's incredibly lame!
You've taken the "fool me once - fool me twice" idiom and made it into "fool me once or fool me 20 years in a row."
It's exactly that lack of accountability at the top which caused the Raiders to fail so miserably for so long.
I don't think you read the URL I offered in my last post. Okay, don't take my word for it. Here's what Jerry McDonald said about Al Davis during this period.
“Kiffin is viewed as being stuck in an organization where Davis is essentially the owner, the general manager, the personnel director, the scouting department and the de facto defensive coordinator—all at age 78.”
He wasn't saying that as a compliment. It's hard to believe that you were fan back then and didn't see any of this yourself.
NY and Anon, you're both acting foolish why are you having this stupid debate about Al Davis let him rest in peace. Without Al there would be no Raiders. I posted a lot of draft info a few back let's discuss that. Let us remember the glory of Al and move on from the bad years. Sandy
Now this is funny.
https://www.bitchute.com/video/1MgpirVu4bZn/
enjoy
Al Anon's opinion about Raiders in '23:
Let Jacobs walk
don't draft a QB in the 1st round
sign M. Mariota or trade for M. Ryan and make one starting QB
draft defensively
bring in more defensive assistants
leave B. Purdy alone!
draft a fast RB or sign one in free agency.
give M. Koonce more time in games
bring back DT P.J. Hall- he's in the USFL/ coach him up!
teach your CBs' press coverage
sign a veteran
trade FS Moerihg
After reading Zeigler being quoted as saying the Raiders may not have the QB position resolved this year, I'm more perplexed than ever.
In Denver, McDaniels got rid of Cutler for Teebow. Epic fail.
In LV, McDaniels got rid of Carr for... fill-in-the-blank.
Is anyone else nervous about this pattern and the strange non-plan to this whole transition?
I don't see any possible way Aaron Rodgers would come to LV and work with McDaniels, i.e., unless McDaniels plans to give Rodgers the autonomy that he didn't afford Derek Carr.
The top two draft prospects both look decent, but they will both be off the board at #7. Both are juniors too, implying they might not be able to step in like Carr did his rookie year.
What does anyone know about Hendon Hooker? Good TD-INT ratio, good yardage and completion percentage. Played for TN. Raiders could pick a CB at #7 and draft Hooker in 2nd, maybe even trade back in the 2nd round to do it.
If the Raiders could find a decent prospect and somehow bridge part or even all of 2023 to get that QB on the field, that might be the best scenario.
Aside from Rodgers, Carr is the best FA out there, so the Raiders chances of upgrading are pretty slim. In free agency, Raiders maybe pull off a lateral move. I'm leaning toward Mayfield. Garopolo is injury prone (every season missing games). Who else is there? Please don't say Teddy Bridgewater or Marcus Mariota.
Sandy, I saw you mentioned Hooker. I guess the Raiders don't need a star QB, they need a system QB. Somebody who can execute McDaniels plan. As we saw in the 49ers game, Stidham is close but might not quite have the chops or durability.
Al Davis - Anon why are you so down on Jacobs he is probably the third best back in Raider hostory behind Bo and Marcus. He runs hard, good hands, tough, decent speed and only 24.
NY, QB in the draft is such a crap shoot, look at 2020 great QBs in Herbert, Borrow, Tua and Hurts. Compare that to 2018 Mayfield, Darnold, Josh Rosen all crap Allen and Lamar Jackson awesome.
Furthermore I do not trust the guy who traded Cutler, picked Tebow and though he had a franchise QB lol.
As I said when they benched Carr whoever is playing QB next year will be worse than Carr. One exception to that is Rogers. But for 40 million in salary for a guy who is ready to retire every year and total diva I would not give more than a 2nd.
Of the rookies here are my thoughts
Bryce Young---people say he is a sure thing but he is small and played on a great Alabama team
Cj Stroud----good accuracy, seems to have hte tools but again played on a great Ohio State team how does that translate to the NFL
Will Levis---may be the guy wiht the least downside, great arm, great body, can run and has played in a pro style offense. He played on a weak Kentucky team so I think he has been downgraded
Anthony Richardson-----Looks like Cam Newton big, strong, incredible arm, great runner. Downside he has zero experience only played about a dozen games in college will need to sit for a few years could be an all pro or a total bust. Terrible accuracy.
Hendon Hooker----Did not play in a pro style offense already 25, very raw good arm good wheels.
Tanner McKee--- pro style offense, size, arm strength decent mobility for a big man. Standford was awful under him
There is no Andrew Luck or Joe Burrow here in terms of a sure thing. If I had to chose one guy for the Raiders to pick at 7 it would be Will Levis. I definetly would not trade up for anyone.
The thought of Mayfield (he is a journeyman at this point he would be going on his fourth team you can not be serious when you say you are leaning towards him) or Stindham as QB is higly depressing.
Sandy
One further point. I would be happy to give up 2 1st round picks for Lamar Jackson and pay him 250 million
Sandy
Nice breakdown. I guess as my opinion evolves, Stroud, if available, or Levis makes sense at #7. Definitely, don't trade draft picks to move up.
Richardson is scary. Like him, Russell only played a handful of games before Davis became so infatuated with him that he picked him over Calvin Johnson. Kiffin wanted Johnson.
WRT Hooker, I guess that it would depend on his ability to learn and be a system QB. Whoever the Raiders select, let's hope they speak at length with that person and vet out the process, something Davis never bothered to do with Russell.
Leaning toward Mayfield is not sold on him. However, Gannon was a journeyman too. Mayfield is a gamer. He's tough and can improvise. But perhaps that's not good with McDaniels... who expects more of a robot at QB.
The more I look at the field of FA, the more concerned I become. I prefer the Raiders don't trade away the farm for a QB, like Rodgers. Jackson isn't going anywhere, IMO, so I think that's moot.
Options are thin. Raiders had their best option for 2023 in Carr. Whatever they do now is more targeted toward 2024 results. Zeigler admitted as much.
Sandy, I will add to your QB takes here:
Bryce Young is this year's model of Kyler Murray.
Stroud is like Jalen Hurts, he will do well on a team that will adjust to his talents (Miami).
Will Levis---Looking at him, he is a lot like Anthony Richardson, except with more experience. He struggles with accuracy, played well against weak teams, struggled against better. I compare him with a younger version of Matt Ryan or Zach Wilson.
Anthony Richardson-----Needs a few years. Not alot of experience in college, reminds me of Tui with the Raiders, he may be a career back up.
Hendon Hooker----Will do well in a system like Philly, Baltimore, maybe even Seattle.
Tanner McKee---STAY AWAY! Sure Stanford was poo, and he was the bright spot. Sure, Raiders will have good offensive weapons, but he does not make good decisions. Very comparable to Max Duggan of TCU.
In my opinion, the Raiders need to re-sign Josh Jacobs, and focus heavy on the running game. If they do that, then Stetson Bennett would fit this system. He is a great game manager who makes the throws when he needs to. He will do well in a run first offense. That is the direction I believe McD is going.
Grayson McCall is my underdog QB. He played at Coastal Carolina, a small school; but some of the better QB's of late have come out of smaller schools.
I am not sold on Baker Mayfield, he cannot throw the ball downfield, and makes horrible decisions when pressured. I'd rather have Jimmy G over Mayfield. I think Case Keenum is the better choice here. He is looking to start after his stint in Minnesota, and a few years on the bench in Buffalo.
This is Al Anon,
No team with a losing record over 10 years should charge the highest ticket prices in the NFL- lower the ticket prices %by 10%.
you can get all the high character guys but you really need to look into looking at:
1. bigger, faster more athletic players
2. elite college players in the draft
3. washed up veterans that were once stars that might have something left- but not just to fill spot on mediocre roster or in a plan save money for a rebuilding plan or to keep a cheap roster.
speed- the Raiders talent is about NFL way of thinking but add some of Al's ideas about speed and it might help them. Al made speed stressful for teams and sometimes getting big plays using it even, using it to make teams make mistakes to spring slower Raiders' players and on coverage on STs- chasing down returners.
Bellichick prepared in a way that talented teams just couldn't use it against the Patriots most of the time.
The Steelers are conservative but they'll draft big athletes(not really into speed) and sometimes problem players but they have discipline and expect their guys to act right. They'll sign/ keep high priced stars but won't take too much drama/ big contract demands from players a lot. They win with good coaches and have one of the best front offices in pro sports and, can usually replace guys(not QB) and keep going.
these are all good systems but just because an elite group of teams use the high character, franchise QB, coach 'em up thing doesn't mean older ideas can't work.
that's the NFL's thing, they want teams to all look the same. they want money and to bring more billionaires/ corporations into the league but maybe the Raiders should look at being a little different and use some of the legend's/ great team's ideas.
Jamarcus was a top college QB!
He had a winning record!
He played a
52 tds and 21 picks
You may still be angry with Al for drafting him but please stop trying to put down on him! The Raiders were already losing when he was drafted!
Megatron? We already had R. Moss, J. Porter, L. Murphy and T. Brown and were losing('03-'11) so C. Johnson would've been nice but we had good WRs' was he the guy to get us to the playoffs or did we need more guys to help us?
If he was drafted by any of the 31 other teams he'd been a good player!
Steelers: He'd been a good, not great QB but they'd probably make him a game manager to hand the ball off.
NYG: a running team same thing.
Bears: another running team playing in bad whether late in the season. if he could hand off ball then throw that deep pass sometimes the Bears might've went to playoffs a few times.
Browns: used to be a running team. if they found a good RB. Russell could hit that short TE and that deep pass to his WRs'.
Ravens: Wow! This would be close to Pittsburgh, a great place for game manager QBs'. with that D he just hand the ball off and hit that TE with hard throws and the WR on long passes and deep passes.
NFL busts QBs? was Russell the worst one of all-time?:
Tenn- M. Mariota
Cincy- A. Smith, D. Klingler,
Wash- H. Shuler, III,
GB- R. Campbell
K.C.- T. Blackledge
S.F.- S. Spurrier
NYG- D. Brown
N.O.- D. Wilson
TB- J. Winston, T. Dilfer
Balt- K. Boller,
LAC- R. Leaf
Hou- David Carr
Det.- C. Long, A. Ware
ARZ- K. Stouffer, M. Leinart
Buff- P.J. Losman
Chi- M. Trubiski
Indy- J. George
Denver- P. Lynch,
Cleve.- J. Manzel, T. Couch
Dall- D. Hensen, C. Hutchinson
Pitts- T. Maddox
"Jamarcus was a top college QB!
He had a winning record!"
JaMarcus wasn't even the starter for LSU, he and Matt Flynn split time, and both opted for the draft early. JaMarcus had the potential to be like Ben Rothlesberger if he had put in the work to study film and be coachable. But he proved, even in college before the draft, that he relied too much on his own talent, wouldn't watch film, and couldn't be taught anything because he knew it all. In fact, he still thinks he knows it all. He was not a top QB, and he and Flynn had a winning record because of a stout defense that covered their mistakes.
Jamarcus was a BUST!
BUT! in college he was a top player.
He was going in the first round anyway!
His athleticism was very good, his arm off the charts and he graded out as a decent not great QB. Meaning he was a first round QB.
He also had a winning recorded and played against the best college teams.
When he got to the NFL he was a BUST! but please stop making him some terrible player that ONLY athlete- obsessed teams and the Raiders would pick. No, he would've been a first rounder anyway!
But the reason why the media and NFL sports writers love to attack his career is why? Come on, we all know or might all know!-
It was because AL drafted him! that's the only reason he is the all time worst 1st round QB!
A rookie is toxic, I've seen this guy he is very quite and easy going guy.
When the Raiders had raw raw get in your face guys they didn't want them- well, Reggie/ Pats' guys didn't.
B. Gradowski- the Raiders weren't gonna make him the starter and as much as fans say this and that they wanted a better QB. they did let him play and he was the type that was a motivator.
TP2- oh yea, as 2nd year QB he tried to lead this team and was motivating guys but once again the NFL stepped in. Reggie had to get rid of him and ruin his chances to be an NFL QB.
What is it about TP2 that stands out. A guy motivates a very mediocre team '12 is made he starter has to deal with the mediocrity of the rebuilding team- but has a huge game where he runs for a 92 yard TD to beat an elite team(Steelers) has some good games then, has a concussion and, the Raiders REFUSE to make him the starter. He is benched and then traded after the season.
What is it about him that sticks out? He was AL's last draft pick! As terrible as the Raiders were they couldn't find a spot for an athlete who could've been a good back up QB?
M. McGloin- he got his chance and tried to win. he wasn't ready and had to deal with his problems learning to play in the NFL and his size. but one thing he did do was motivate the team like TP2, he had an attitude, he shouted and got in guys faces and was running the offense and tried to win but he just wasn't that good and the team was mediocre. He was used to keep TP2 on the bench and the Raiders IMO....never really were interested in keeping him- after TP2 was traded he was let go later.
In Jamarcus case, he was attacked by the NFL and media becasue of Al. Why?:
1. his rookie contract forced other owners to have to pay more to their rookies too.
2. they didn't like the idea of a rookie making that much money.
They wanted Al to fail but they also wanted his moves to look bad or at least questionable they wanted the salaries for players to go down and Al was helping them keep salaries up.
Jamarcus was just a player and didn't make them angry but he was the rookie who got that contract in during player/ owner issues. He was a 1st rounder and AL DRAFTED HIM! That's the only reason they say bad things about him, its' was about Al and making him look bad.
Jamarcus had a tough time and was a bust but not the worst one. Other than the syrup this guy wasn't causing issues with the team.
Jamarcus 25-4 was his college record as a starter!
He never caused some of the problems rookies and some rookie QBs' caused!
He isn't much different from many young players
You know good a well the Raiders' were already losing and many things were happening that just made no sense! guys who were pro bowlers played strangely, play calling was strange- they were losing when they had everything to not only win but be an elite team.
As mediocre as many of those teams were. To see Al's work made to look like the worst when it was a strange situation were good and very good just ain't working.
It is stranger that he happened to be the one of two guys who the NFL was very upset with. Then, suddenly his team couldn't win 1 season in 9 years.
Bad decisions? one of the best teams and best football men for 9 years. Really?
And the biggest bust in NFL history? you really need to stop making Al and his Raiders the worst because IMO I doubt he/ they were.
NY I agree Stroud would fit well in McDaniel system but I highly doubt he'll be available at 7. Nate 75 you say leave us is like a young Matt Ryan or Zach Wilson those two are polar opposites in talent I'd be happy to take a young Matt Ryan. I respectfully disagree with you on Tanner McKee Stanford's offensive line was horrendous and he spent most of the season getting sacked, he fits the mold of a pure pocket passer. JaMarcus was a lazy bum, if Al did not take him many teams would have so I would have pinned a lot on our that's terrible judgment like I said quarterbacks are a crap shoot. Al Anon Jamarcus got drafted in 2007 Tim Brown retired in 2004 not sure what you're talking about. Regards Sandy
Here is a good site to read about draft profiles. Sandy https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/
The NFL draft:
We need defensive help and the Raiders should try to find some linemen and DBs'. LB needs lots of help too but the secondary could use some help. The LB position may not be as big to teams as in the past but I could be wrong so the Raiders need to find a starting OLB and some back ups.
I think we should look for a fast RB and some fast DBs'. A fast RB could make it easier on the O-line not to have to make all kinds of schemes to get the RBs' going.
An OLB that can cover a TE and pass rushing DT and a RG would be good to find in the draft.
need help?: food bank can help with grocery bills and being hungry at dinner time. don't be ashamed to get health.
get checked for Coronavirus
its' a long time before it gets hot so make sure to get the things you need for flu and colds. remember there are natural products that can help against the flu and colds.
mental problems: suicide worries, depression, need somebody to talk to? call a crisis center you can do it from home and not feel the councilor has to know your private business.
get ready for spring and get your allergy meds and drink lots of water.
I didn't say anything about T. Brown- are you talking about when I posted about Megatron? Oh, I was just saying we've had pro bowl level receivers and were still losing.
C. Johnson was outstanding but we had pro bowl guys like T. Brown; The Raiders were losing when he retired('04) or did he go play for the Bucs?
As for Jamarcus he wasn't the guy who caused the losing. I don't know what would've happened had he been in a situation that wasn't that bad.
Oh other Anon!, if the Steelers had taken him he'd been a good NFL QB. They'd make sure this guy wasn't carrying the team until it was good enough to win. And the media wouldn't've attacked him no matter how bad he was they'd criticize him but not just unload on him with unproven(biggest bust?) and unfair(he ruined team) criticism- they'd call him a bust of the Steelers and sports media would throw jokes and criticism at him but then let it go.
And some NFL teams would've drafted him in the 1st round because of this talents. Some of those teams might be elite. Its' not like media wasn't attacking Al anytime he made a move good if he succeeded they'd look at areas he did bad he did bad they'd make it so bad he needed to retire.
He was a top prospect in college. Lazy, not willing to get better or to learn? I don't know but young guys do things that sometimes need to be disciplined- they also make mistakes. You hope they'll grow up and work hard. He isn't close to some of the guys that got chances and did silly things- most of it not serious- some outright threatening to the teams' rep and public. Jamarcus wasn't doing much of that so stop trying to make him some kind of terrible player that fooled draft experts.
Funny how the teams and fans who talk about Al the most love his players and coaches:
S. Peyton
J. Gruden
J. Harbaugh
B. Musgrave I
D. Shaw
Many assistants
C-Wood/ if you thought Al forgot how to draft good players why were you so happy to get C-Wood back?
Oakland/ L.A. weather you could have cool, warm or hot weather without a dome and in Oakland good public transportation system.
G. Papa/ one of he best announcers in pro sports and when we went to L.V. he went to the 49ers.
Fans have asked or wondered what the Raiders would be like with one of these coaches or assistants as HC.
Al hired these guys first and it seems to me like a real when you call a man who helped make the Raiders a winner and found or helped find your greatest players you act as if he was the worst thing for the team.
Its like a joke, every time you mention a group of coaches a lot of them worked for or even were hired into the NFL by Al.
Then you make yourselves look funny when you go and hype the guys he hired and drafted.
Fans/ NFL laughs at us they hated Al and he sure kicked their asses. K.C. didn't go to or win a SB almost 49 years yet you want to criticize the Raiders for not going to one in 21 years? And Mahomes is the 1st AFC West QB drafted by his team to go to the super bowl in 46 years the 1st was K. Stabler. I can see why the Raiders were so relevant and important to the NFL because the AFC West can talk now about how good it is
If you're gonna criticize a guy for making bad decisions and say he makes a place bad to work at and he makes good employees/ players mess up and makes bad front office hires- why do are you claiming his ex-employees are so good?
To other Anon and Raider Nate,
P. Mahomes was the 2nd AFC West QB to lead his team to the SB and win one- that was this year.
K. Stabler was the first AFC West QB drafted by his team to lead his team to the SB and win one- that was 46 years ago.
others:
L. Dawson, K.C.
J. Elway- Denver, trade with Colts
R. Gannon- Oakland
J. Plunkett- Oakland/ L.A.
C. Morton- Denver
S. Humphries- San Diego
D. LaMonica- Oakland
Jamarcus was a bust, but would've been drafted by somebody in the 1st round. Not every team is buying you have to be an average athlete or some typical QB to star in the NFL they'll take a chance on a big, athletic QB. Al did draft well and had star players but it just was a strange era and the media/ NFL was attacking him.
It was a strange thing where he was hated, was standing up for the union and suing the NFL and he suddenly is the worst GM in sports and can't win 1 season?
There has been some dishonesty and shady moves by the Raiders/ NFL. They want you to believe they've tried so hard and its going to take more time when the Raiders are making money, getting business deals becoming wealthier.
You are loyal and want to win and they keep you waiting with hype. Maybe fans should ask for older assistants/ front office people and old ideas from legends and great teams like Al's.
Don't let them con you into lowering your guard- make sure you get good food and healthy items along with meds to fight corona virus.
If you can donate to charities.
if you know somebody that needs shelter, food or mental health help there are phone numbers for crisis councilors and offices in your county that might help them.
Here's all we really need to know about JaMarcus Russell.
1. Al never spoke with Russell before drafting him #1. The Raiders could have vetted Russell and Calvin Johnson, and they likely would have discovered Russell was far too immature and lazy to play pro football. Asked by media his feelings about being drafted #1, the first words out of Russell's mouth were, "...time to get paid!"
2. Lane Kiffin wanted Al to draft Calvin Johnson.
Turns out Kiffin was right. Kiffin was right about a few other things as well.
But you guys are right to point out that Richardson doesn't even have Russell's college stats.
IMO, if McZeigler has anything thing going for them, they are not lazy in their work. They will likely speak to candidates and thoroughly vet through whatever decision is made, good or bad. But even knowing that doesn't leave me beaming with confidence.
Russell did show us teams really need to talk to guys the want to draft. He let us down but have you seen the history of those '07-'09 teams? have you looked at the actions of the NFL during that time? Its' no different from '03. Terrible ref management, other teams get away with terrible fouls and the Raiders are flagged for anything possible. the media attacks and scheduling plans were unfair.
Now, what does that have to do with him? when he was drafted they were already losing and had tried different ways to get back to glory. Now, he was a bust but he still should've been in a winning situation being a game manager after time on the bench.
You talk about a WR, but we know Al ALWAYS finds them. He already had pro bowl level receivers before. Maybe Kiffin was right and Megatron would've been huge for us but I don't know if that would've helped us win more games.
You got one point PARITY makes it so you really didn't need either a Russell or a C. Johnson to win. It gives mediocrity a chance to win a few more games if not, make the playoffs it makes elite teams beatable.
It wasn't made for 31 teams but all of them.
If PARITY worked and the Raiders lost for 9 years its' hard to argue with fans who blame Al but something is wrong here. The Raiders were elite, it would take the worst terrible decisions to get close to what happened to them there are only a few ways this could've happened:
1. that the Raiders were basically almost like a CFL team. somehow they went from the best team in the AFC in '02 to the worst from '03-'11.
2. that having a good roster and a top NFL front office has nothing to do with winning.
3. that Al sunk so low as a GM that he had to be the worst GM maybe over the past 21 years maybe one of the worst in NFL history making some of the worst decisions in sports history(?).
4. that something happened to Al that he would purposely ruin his own team just so he could prove- ?
5. that Bellichick, Bucs, Packers and Eagles systems are the only ones that can win in the NFL. being cheap, discipline and good players maybe a few stars but not having many of them is how to build. Pitts, K.C. and S.F. use speed/ size but are o.k. with the NFL- they try to be cheap but will spend a little more.
Russell was bust and Al made mistakes. Megatron was good but the Raiders had good WRs some HOFers('03'11). Al wasn't some guy trying to win the Raiders were elite and just lost a SB when they just lost.
The NFL changed overnight and suddenly, if you're elite you're really not because its' a "Level playing field" and "Any given sunday"! there are a lot of teams with some problem, bust and mediocre draft picks and some teams with problem vets but they win! there are other teams who look for size and speed and media doesn't attack them and say all kinds of ridiculous things like that system keeps them from winning.
But somehow Al just lost because of trading a HC, bad QB draft pick, dysfunction and using and old system(size, speed).
He had an elite team and a good front office but PARITY couldn't help him win 1 season over a 9 year period.
He had four HOFers on that '03 team and pro bowlers but his negatives ruined that; other teams could win over their negatives and few had the roster he had but the Raiders just were the worst in the NFL.
Wow Raidernation! you want to be fair and the facts but you sure don't understand corporations and just how corrupt they can be and to believe 31 other teams can be imperfect but win at least once in 10 years except a genius who was one of the best in NFL history- with a talented roster. I guess the Raiders were just so bad not even PARITY helped them.
kick rocks ANON...ANON'S...
To get back to your question Take,
top 3 Coaches for me
1 Jon Gruden
2 Art Shell #1 go around probably because Bo played for him
3 Jack Del Rio cuz I had to pick 3
Top 3 QB's for me
1 Gannon
2 Hostetler
3 Carr
Overall Best Player
1 C. Woodson
2 T. Brown
3 Maxx
let J. Jacobs walk.
find a special teams star in kick off returns.
get a consultant(older assistant coach or scout) to help the Pats' guys.
Are they trying to rebuild or make a playoff run? Well, they need to do something to make a move but if they want to make a playoff run they should:
M. Mariota or M. Ryan- the Pats' guys might want to make a rookie a starter but there are veteran QBs' that can help us win now.
faster RB-?
FB- ?
D. Waller/ they don't need to do mess with this unit.
H. Renfroe
D. Adams/ if they don't trade him to NE or Pittsburgh
K. Miller
M. Bars
James
?- we might need to sign a free agent RG
Thayer?- we might have to draft a LT
D. Carlsen- doing a good job as K
M. Crosby
J. Tillery- the Raiders should keep him.
?- were the rookie DT's showing one of them could be a difference maker?
?- I think they should trade or let C. Jones walk
D. Perryman- he should be moved to OLB
Masterson- if he can just be a decent we could spend on the DL and secondary.
D. Deablo
R. Yon Sin
?
?- I think Moehrig could be a good back up maybe one day a starter but we need a top FS. Maybe a 2nd or 3rd round pick might get us a starter.
?
A.J. Cole- a very good P
special teams:
J. Ford KR- you didn't have a problem with signing a 30+ DB drafted by the guy they say ruined us. they signed M. Lynch I like the guy- he showed he cared(he went into the Black hole when he was suspended from a game) but he was 30+. Ford had 4 special teams TDs' over 2 years and we don't have a KR.
* Ticket prices are way too high and fans should let the Raiders know they need to show some class and discount season tickets.
there should be discounts for hotel and merchandise for fans traveling from other places.
Don't forget about Cornavirus news and try to learn more about those vaccines get the conspiracy and regular news before taking the shots.
Hey, fans don't forget if you are having problems paying bills maybe some info or community programs can help you find help-
the food bank
work for food programs
utility bill help or discount programs
rent eviction blocking programs
mental illness crisis centers and phone numbers
Not sure I agree with keeping Tillery, he has a tendency to do dumb things, and let his emotions get the best of him (knocking the ball out of the QB's hand) and costing the team. I think we can get better value in Dalvin Tomlinson or David Onyemata.
Not sure you are going to find a better RB than Jacobs at this point, unless you spend the same amount of $$ on Saquan Barkley. Both he and Jacobs are likely to get Franchised. I think we need a bigger back to help Jacobs on short yardage and goal line. D'Onta Foreman comes to mind. Josh Jacobs is 220 lbs, D'Onta is 236; someone to compliment Josh's speed with power hits.
Here are FA's at positions I think we need that if I were GM, I am talking to:
DT - Dalvin Tomlinson, David Onyemata, Shy Tuttle, Linval Joseph
RB - I am tagging Jacobs and talking with D'Onta Foreman
QB - Mariota, Wentz, Keenum, Daniel Jones, Lamar Jackson, Gardner Minshew.
CB - Marcus Peters, Rock Ya Sin, James Bradberry, Tre Flowers, Eli Apple and talking with Joey Porter II to draft.
ILB - Devin Bush, Zach Cunningham, LaVonte David
OLB - I'm looking at draft
RG - I'm looking to move Jermaine Eluemenor to RG, Trai Turner, Dan Feeney, Nick Gates.
RT - Mike McGlinchey, Juwann Taylor, and seeing if Kolton Miller or Taylor Lewan would be willing to move to RT.
DE - I think Khalil Mack is about to be cut, definitely try and move on from Chandler Jones. Jadeveon Clowney, Larry Ogunjobi.
Wait, what? Let Jacobs walk but bring in Mariota (who the Falcons are dumping) or M Ryan (who is about to retire). (Nate, Wentz has played for 3 teams in 3 years and might never be QB1 again.)
It doesn't matter that Jacobs was the NFL rushing leader behind, at best, a marginal O-line, and the Raiders can tag or sign him to a new deal for less than market price? Raiders have plenty of cap space to tag Jacobs.
Is "J Ford" actually Jacoby Ford? Did you really type that? Perryman outside? Really?
I'm only an armchair guy but, IMO, you can kiss goodbye any chance of being a scout.
After 2022 I lost a lot of confidence in McZeigler. If they bring in Mariota or Ryan to be QB1, I will jump ship until 2024. I don't need to see that show. I already know how that ends.
Al guy, your approach to let star player(s) walk, sign fossils and move players out of position is puzzling, to say the least.
Btw, ticket prices are based on supply and demand. Hey, as a consumer, I don't like it but more $$ is why the NFL moved to Vegas. Price control is anti-American. If you have the money to go to Vegas, pay the freight. Otherwise, the Raiders do play in other cities. Look at what Disney charges.
NY,
I'm not saying signing them, I am saying bringing them in to chat with them. If I am GM really looking for a vet QB, along with drafting a young guy, I'm looking at Keenum. Wentz is like Jimmy G, he hasn't had one healthy season; but I like him better than Jimmy G. If I'm looking to spend $$, I'm bringing in Lamar Jackson.
All in all, these are the vet QB's I'm bringing in and talking with.
There are apparent limitations. Carr is a vet QB and McDaniels couldn't work with him. Wentz just failed in three different systems in consecutive years. At least Jimmy G has proven he can win, and he's worked with McDaniels.
Lamar Jackson is looking for fully guaranteed contract. That's a steep climb for any club.
Right now, Jared Stidham is the best representation of what Josh McDaniels wants from his QB. I see Raiders re-signing Stidham, drafting a QB and signing a stopgap vet that won't mortgage the future away but someone who can quickly learn and work in McDaniels system. Not sure who that is, but I would guess they have someone in mind from the FA field.
Failing to work with Carr, McDaniels proved he will not be able to work with some QBs. We don't know who those QBs are, and maybe McDaniels doesn't know either. IMO, McDaniels best chance to have (develop) the kind of system QB he wants might be in the draft. If that's the plan, it could easily take 2-3 years for the Raiders to get back to the playoffs. Don't fool yourself, that's where we stand currently, rookie QB or not.
Carr is the best FA QB available and we know how that ended. Any stopgap FA QB playing in the Raiders division is probably 6-7 wins in 2023.
This is going to be a neat trick. Raiders need a defense, a makeover of the O-line and a franchise QB. How will they possibly keep Adams interested in playing for them? I don't think he signed up for a 2-3 year rebuild.
Very disheartening but it looks like another long road ahead.
So we moved on from a once great football man into a dysfunctional, controlling GM to a guy who was a scout to good but overhaul guy to an ex-Raider legend and his NFL draft expert GM to guys from the Patriots' dynasty?
Mariota is about the potential, he could be electrifying! with things he learned from Gruden II and the Pats' guys he might just be a star QB in the NFL.
Stidham? please, once again the fan base wants to support mediocrity waiting for it to build a team in a few years instead of asking why don't they take chances, do different ways to win now?
Why do we accept mediocrity from a team that was supposed to be better without the front office that built it into a winner? Why talk of FA vet QBs' who are just there to play until the front office feels it got it's guys to make a playoff run? At least with Mariota, it would show a team willing to take chances to win now!
the Raiders' leading rusher: Jacobs is very good but not elite. He should get a chance to play for a contender and we could save money. Because the Raiders stopped throwing a lot he was able to get lots of work and get that yardage. He is like a poor man's E. Smith that could help a team but I think we need a speed back who could take pressure of the O-line by making big runs even if the line is bad or good.
Al Anon Mariotta could be electrifying he was awful last year he got thrown out of Tennessee he's a backup at best have you lost your mind? Then again if he had Jacoby Ford to throw to who knows LOL Sandy
To NY Raider,
Al Anon.
This is what I posted about the regimes and how all of them, IMO....were being run by their leaders and other front office people.
Al- once great football man to dysfunctional, controlling GM.
Reggie- scout from a winning team to being a pink slip/ overhaul guy for Raiders.
Gruden II/ Mayock- from ex-Raiders' legend and an NFL draft expert. Legend is new/ old HC trying to build a winner, find a new culture with some old attitudes and try to take Raiders back to glory.
Letting Jacobs walk: lots of money to build a defense.
Mariota?: He's big, fast and could be coached up! He has the talent maybe he isn't a good NFL QB but he can lead a team if the coaches help him.
Raiders fan's are supporting another regime and refuse to see that Al's regime knew what they were doing. They keep waiting for a winning system but are willing to deal with mediocrity hoping the team is really going to make huge deals and draft play makers to win.
They are willing to support terrible moves thinking its' just stop gap management. The Pats' guys have less excuse to suck than the other two new regimes but fans really want to believe they are bringing that Bellichick culture and its' going to win for us. Maybe but they surely could use ideas from Al, Dallas, S.F. or the old Steelers to help team get better.
Have the Raiders had more then 4 TD's since '11?
Jacoby was a KR but I'll even say PRs' count too.
#17- KR TD 1
J. Richard- PR 2
KR 1
O.K. I think the Raiders have had 4 STs' TDs' since '11. J. Ford had 4 over a two year period when Reggie decided to let him walk.
Oh, you signed C-Wood when he was almost ready to retire. Wow! you sign a guy who Al drafted? I thought all those guys were guys you avoid? What even more funny is a guy who is almost 40 being the best DB on the team!
You then sign M. Lynch! Now, I know he was strong and all that but what for? It wasn't to make the playoffs. He was going to if he hadn't already retired yet you didn't have any problem signing him. The funny thing is even if he flashed pro bowl talent look at the roster he had to carry! They were rebuilding again and all he was signed for was to again, keep us spending on the team. One thing about M. Lynch was he loved Oakland and when he was thrown out of a game he went into the black hole with the fans.
The 49ers used 30+ WR M. Goodwin who was very fast. They kept 30+ DEs' D. Ford and E. Dumeraville.
Teams kept signing 30+ DE J. Clowney even though he had injury problems.
30+ QB A. Rodgers is still playing very well.
ex-Raiders D. Jackson is 30+ and played well for years and was good in L.V. but had to deal with talent issues on the team. He was a good WR and o.k. KR.
O.K. there are some guys who can play over 30+; Goodwin was a 30+ but was one of the fastest players in the NFL. So, why can't J. Ford who may still be fast get a chance to help us?
Al-guy, Raiders have plenty of cap space to build a defense. Allowing the NFL rushing leader to walk isn't going to meaningfully change that if the plan is to sign Marcus Mariota, who is a bottom tier QB worth backup QB salary.
You infatuation with Mariota is just weird. Wasn't Mariota drafted the same year as Carr? 10 years in the NFL and you think he just needs to be "coached up"? And coached up by who? McDaniels? After the Carr debacle, McDaniels obviously will have a very short list of QBs that he can work with.
Let's review. Your plan is to release Jacobs, sign Mariota and Jacoby Ford, bring in a "speedy RB." Then we can once again label the team "elite" and blame the NFL if they don't win. Sorry for the cynicism but is that really the plan?
I guess off-seasons are when dreams are made.
My take is much simpler. If the Raiders aren't smart (what constitutes 'smart' is above my pay scale), they will once again get buried at the bottom of the league and be inline for another high draft pick in 2024. If they want to assure themselves of that high draft pick, they should absolutely let Jacobs walk and sign Marcus Mariota.
Then the question becomes, will we actually get to witness another season of self-destruction?
Mariota?: veteran, still has potential, athletic but MIGHT be able to be coached up into a more throwing QB. Never should've been let go by the Raiders.
J. Ford making us elite?: Ummmmm......what I said was that J. Ford could be a KR I never said he was even to play WR.
Funny, you didn't say anything about D. Jackson who couldn't wait to leave L.V. mainly because they wouldn't use him. He is 30+ and still was a good players.
You labeled them almost elite when they traded for A. Brown and Gruden/ Mayock were hired you labeled them a better team after about '14 when Carr became starter.
Over the 9 year slump they should've been an elite team. They had the roster and front office to be. But you felt Al had to go because new NFL people would rebuild the Raiders into a winner again. They sure rebuilt them alright.
Jacobs is outstanding but we need to save that money even if we are looking good in the salary cap. This team needs star players and to hit on their draft picks.
He can protect leads, but not a scoring machine and needs a decent D to help him run out the clock. If he could throw maybe he'd be the best player on the team but they could help themselves, get a younger RB and save money if he walked.
You get lit up by teams with speed(K.C.) shut down by bigger, faster defenses(Den.) and get beaten by size and a franchise QB(LAC) but you want to keep doing the SAME things you've been doing since Reggie first came to Raiders?
Raiders?: NFL controlled, will be cheap,
the league HAS TO help them before the SB a
What SOME fans are expecting is:
1. for the Pats' guys to draft another T. Brady.
2. to get a Patriots'-like defense that will be able to handle ANY kind of offense.
3. to see star free agents FINALLY signing with the team.
4. to get a good vet QB in a trade that can carry team until rookie QB is ready to play.
Self-destruction?: No, there's no destruction, the Raiders are making millions. Its the culture of committing to the game and fans that's being messed up. You still think this is the Raiders its' a small area of the real Raiders left but a big NFL and corporate system that is running the team. Some of these people are Al haters and they really like to see this team go through bull.
They put NFL people to just run it until they figure out what they want from us.
This is why things are going so mediocre, there's no real plan and its' just putting together something looking like an NFL team. And even it were it seems that Pats' guys aren't really electrifying big chance taking guys so we won't see a lot of chance taking big move like Al but just well thought out and dull drafting and free agent signing with maybe 1 or two big moves or chances but not a lot.
Mariota is electrifying J. Ford was a good KR. If they could coach 'em up at least we'd have some excitement and maybe the team would get motivated.
If Al was still around today, he would be losing his mind with Richardson at the combine. Al would be on the phone trying to arrange to make sure he gets that pick. Wow, that guy is going to be a monster at QB if he can adjust to the mental side of it. Heard he can be erratic at times too. The QB class isn't looking that bad.
NFLPA just released a report that the Raiders' players gave Josh McDaniels the lowest grade as a HC among the NFL. So much for everyone being on board with him, and wanting to play for him.
J.Ford was a good KR? Have you noticed that almost all the kickoffs are touch backs? The guy hasn't played pro ball for how many years? If you are trying to be funny, you made me laugh.
So, how does that work? Teams anonymously vote on their own coaches? Doesn't sound too anonymous if they knew it was the Raider players giving him the grade? Sounds kind of suspect, right?
I don't take too much from a survey prepared by the Players Association, which is constantly on the NFL's back to reduced practices and other workload for players.
Just looks like a bunch of millionaire crybabies who want more time to spend their money instead of earn it.
Conversely, Jacobs and Crosby, the two hardest working players on the team (and I would guess Adams too) expressed their appreciation for how McDaniels approaches coaching the team. There was also a point last season which Carr appeared to call out some teammates.
This is where the rubber hits the road. Need to get rid of players with poor work ethic.
In the same survey, the Raiders scored among the highest for their facilities.
I know very little about the college QBs but Anthony Richardson scares me. He lacks experience. Raiders don't need a RB/QB. They need a smart system QB who can execute McDaniels plan. Richarson seems like another Tyrell Pryor, maybe not even.
There has to be some QB down the chain of college rankings that has the size, arm strength, accuracy and smarts to get it done. Raiders don't need flash. Tom Brady was drafted in the 6th round.
Richardson's freakish Combine performance may have done the Raiders a favor by dropping Stroud to 3rd QB in draft ranking.
Personally, I don't see vertical jump, broad jump and 40-time as leading traits for a QB. Yeah, Richardson dropped a few long passes in the hands of receivers, but his accuracy would be more challenged when under pressure. Carr recently gave a stellar performance in throwing drills at the pro bowl games, but we also saw him play his worst football in 2022.
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/03/05/anthony-richardsons-sensational-combine-performance-raises-his-draft-stock/
NY, no way Richardson goes before Stroud. Stroud's going to be a great quarterback he looks polished I would take him first among all the quarterbacks. I live in Florida so I watch the SEC all the time and saw all of Richardson's games he's a great athlete has a super strong arm can make all the throws but as accuracy is terrible he's a long long way from being ready for the NFL. I would rather have Levis over Richardson. Sandy
Other Anon,
J. Ford and M. Mariota funny? something funnier?:
It took about 8 years for the special teams to get 4 TDs' from its' KR/ PR units.
Grade on McDaniels?: forget grades I'm not going to put the guy down because fans/ NFL don't think he can coach- its' what the front office thought about him/ Zeigler when they hired him.
When Al hired a coach he had a plan. Did the Raiders really have a plan for Reggie, Gruden or the Pats' guys?
McDaniels might just do something different! something the NFL doesn't want him to do. Just keep conning Raidernation tell them anything, they'll keep coming and spending! Keep giving them mediocrity and the media will hype it and we'll just keep changing the team and trying to make big money off L.V.
If the league really wanted to do something it could've asked some of the best stars to sign with us or bought in some of the NFL's best execs here to build a team. No, they only want us to keep waiting for them to bring us a winning team but a winning season sometimes- When Al was running things his goal was to win most of the time.
something even funnier, no pro sports teams' fans have been more mistreated than Raidernation! You had a great situation that just needed i big change in Oakland but got conned into believing the league cares about us and moved us to L.V. to help us. Also, that waiting for some regime to take us back to glory with their help?
Help, to do what!? Actually, they can do a lot! get top NFL people to work with the Raiders until they start winning again but instead, they are trying to change the 'brand' to sell to a bigger group of people who are more wealthier and big spending at events but basically to make money off the team but not help them be find their own system much less be elite.
Richardson?: You guys don't want Richardson! You didn't think it was a bad idea to trade TP2 or let Mariota walk so why do you want a QB like him?
* It's almost spring so you need to get that Allergy medicine, vitamins, liquids of foods to get it under control.
Its' also good to keep learning about the Covid vaccines. If you don't trust the vaccines maybe you should try natural and medications but if you trust you should still try and get reports on the side affects of the vaccines.
question is, why do you have to write out the same essay, post after post? I think the few who frequent this place, can see your angle and have seen it for quite some time now. Copy and paste, save yourself some time? It's like being a politician, they keep repeating the same thing over and over, until it becomes a reality, maybe this is your angle?
Other Anon, I don't know what you're talking about. Are you talking about my trying to show Raidernation that Al didn't ruin this team and fans are being conned thinking the NFL is going to help them find a front office that will build a winner or my info on things to help people get the medical and items to give them what they need to get through hard times and bad health issues?
For the past 11 years the Raiders have been one of the worst teams in the league. They continue to lie and work with a corportion(NFL) that hated them. Also, even with Raidernation trying to support them they continue to do things to show they haven't changed.
Other NFL fans laugh at us because they knew Al wasn't the problem they just hated him too but they respected him. Anybody with the balls to stand up to the league has to be somebody they just didn't like it when/ if he kicked their team's asses.
You can't really call Al's Raiders a joke but you can sure laugh at a fan base that won't admit that conspiracies sometimes do happen. It was pure joy watching Al's Raiders lose to mediocrity with a SB level roster, seeing the refs screw them EVERY Sunday, rules and scheduling that was outright unfair to the Raiders and after all of that to see Raidernation support getting rid of that guy. Wow! o.k. that was pure joy at first but now? its just plain sad!
NFL Ffs just shake their heads now! this guy didn't just win a long time ago he did things they'll talk about for years.
It was just Al hate but not without respect but Raidernation wants to forget him.
Even when the Raiders were losing you saw the talent, the work the man trying to win and a guy like that. NFL fans loved it when he was going crazy trying to win but couldn't and they loved seeing him be a loser but the fact is they know he was still making the team relevant by off field things like standing with the players, NFLPA boss G. Upshaw and preventing a players' strike.
That's what other things he did during that 9 year slump not just lost games.
The times maybe are different and its' a new league(?) but the fans sure didn't find what they expected. To see loyal fans still supporting a corporation/ Raiders that promised to build a winning team after 11 years, supported moving to a smaller market and spending a lot more on tickets, to believe they had talent to make a playoff run over the 11 year period and Reggie did a good job cleaning house is just naive and silly by this fan base.
Before you talk about repeating things maybe you should ask fans why they keep supporting the NFL/ Raiders system?
Al guy, your evidence is weak, leaving only talking points that sometimes seem random and nonsensical. For all the great things Al Davis did for the organization, e.g., building the brand, winning championships and ground-breaking personnel hires, he also steered the Raiders into a wall before his death. Not intentionally, of course, but largely in his desperation to win another championship. Worse, he left the Raiders without a plan upon his death. Mark Davis was never prepped to take over his father's legacy. We all watched the last 20 years. How is this even in dispute? The Raiders have failed in epic fashion. Even if we can agree the NFL contributed to those failures, the league didn't chart the Raiders course over the last two decades of failures.
P.S. Al's "plan", as you suggest, relative to coaching hires, was to control the coaching process. That's how he ran the entire organization.
Simms and Floria talking about Will Levis at the Combine said he bounced some passes. I didn't see it but that's really bad considering QBs can set themselves to make accurate throws. And listening to Levis in his presser talk about improving his footwork and watching film of Joe Burrow, what's that all about? I truly hope the Raiders pass on this kid. IMO, if Young and Stroud are both off the board at #7, the Raiders should not draft a QB in Rd 1. And between Levis and Richardson, I'm a hard "no" on Levis. He can watch all the film he wants he's never going reach Joe Burrow's level.
Derek to the Saints, the worst division. He should be able to make some hay there?
I'm getting a strong feeling the Raiders are going to pick Richardson.
If they don't, Joey Porter jr could be a good pick?
I wish Derek Carr luck. I'm a fan. He's a high-character person and a solid QB. I just hope we don't end up wishing Dennis Allen and Derek Carr were still with the Raiders. So far McZeigler has shown us nothing, and the Raiders have gone from having a franchise QB to being QB-less under their watch.
I'm saying the Al Raiders were erased and by '14 were almost all gone.
That the new regimes are not Al's Raiders Al's regime was '63-'11 and was in a 9 year slump('03-'11). It has NOTHING to do with the new regimes('12-present). They are different teams and it hasn't been 21 years of losing its' been 11 with two playoffs games.
The reason why three other regimes lost has NOTHING to do with Al but the fact that maybe the NFL really likes to stick it to Raidernation.
again, Al wasn't just winning he was doing things NFL wants to ignore but others still talk about. even if you add the losing over 9 years Al is still almost a top NFL exec:
1. stood up with players and NFLPA against the owners' new CBA.
2. voted against the new CBA.
3. maybe stopped a players strike in the '00s'.
had some of the best assistants in the NFL('00-'11)
J. Harbaugh
D. Shaw
hired S. Peyton as HC
A. LoCassale/ one of the best football men in the NFL.
You know good and well if somebody hired these guys he must know something about football? You also know that '03 team was elite, yes very elite in fact it was the best if not it snunk into the SB and was AFC Champions that season. For you to then say Oh no! they sucked, Al ruined the team over the offseaon
then to say the S. Peyton thing wasn't another NFL just somebody doing Peyton a favor? Dude, you really believe the Saints were a better choice than learning from Al?
Plan? you have a point, but understand when he passed, Hue CLAIMED Al left him in charge and I know that Al LoCassale and others were left in charger of areas of the team.
* BTW....some things you let media con you about Al during that 9 year slump. Here is one of the things media/ NFL said about Al:
Nobody wanted to play for Al?: was it his dysfunction, meddling with his coaches or the losses? Why would players avoid Al?
Well NY, if guys didn't want to play for him then why would they ask him to speak for them about the CBA? and listen to him about striking?
Just this one point and your argument needs some help and big points because it looks kinda questionable right now!
I think you really want to be fair you want to believe it was Al and maybe some intimidation from the NFL but nothing really big.
But then to believe that a corporation couldn't/ wouldn't do something to intimidate a member is a little silly, oh it was all Al's for the losing they had no talent and if the NFL did do something Awww it was just some hateful little prank and nothing big!
That a pro team just loses for 9 years without any real explanation. It has a strange but genius owner and the league hates him. The team is winning. The league is happy Billionaires are buying/ co owning teams. The Billionaires aren't happy with the genius because of his threat to their money.
Suddenly, things started happening that doesn't happen a lot. Coaches were told not to work for the genius and the team started losing.
NY, you want to be fair minded but you also make excuses for the NFL/ owners. Al was falling apart and is to blame for the Raiders' fall. The league may be corrupt but they wouldn't mess with a guy they were threatened by if they did it was a little prank. That its' easy to explain- its' Al's fault and you just find good front office people and you can win.
And Al got so stuck and dysfunctional he ruined the Raiders for his last 9 years.
NY, you may want 2 believe its' all right there- no corruption and its' all Al fault 4 his era's losses. Teams just have 2 find the right plan. Well, you've seen them move and the strange things 2 get rid of old employees. Its' not just mean pranks, it could be intimidation but you just want 2 see a terrible owner, bad decisions by new regimes and maybe, some mean pranks but nothing that big by the league.
NY!, you really need to take time and rest me too, we both love Al and his Raiders and want the new regimes to win.
That's incorrect. What excuses have I presented for the NFL/owners? Blaming the Raiders for their own hardships is not synonymous with making excuses for the NFL.
Look, it's simple math. If you told me the Raiders stumbled for a season or two because the NFL sabotaged Jon Gruden's career, I could probably buy that. But looking at a span of 20-30 years, there are no such excuses. Adapt or die. Darwinism.
What you choose to ignore is that the NFL was a known obstacle to the Raiders organization since the beginning of time. You act like this is something "recent" to the organization, and the Raiders would have enjoyed all the successes of your so-called "elite" teams if not for the big bad NFL.
Uhh, not buying it. The modern Raiders have been their own worst enemy, i.e., with Al and since Al. No offense but "The greatness of the Raiders" has gone to your head. They aren't so great as you think... since like the 1980's. All those players you repost over and over, they're not even relevant to this discussion. Every team has great players through its history. Doesn't make them elite.
Maybe its' true what they said about Al. Character wins and the Raiders didn't have ANY and that less talented teams just out coached and out toughed them. Just a bunch of overgrown athletes that couldn't play real football against 31 other teams with high character-tougher guys. Take the Raiders' speed and they're nothing!
I told you that over the 9 year slump those rosters were some of the most talented in NFL and you don't believe it because it SEEMS ridiculous not the actually facts the losing is the best evidence you have but the roster and the actions of the NFL are good points 2. Its hard 2 believe a corporation that claims how legit it is like the NFL could do something like this but I know Raiders and Al and the actions of the league in the past and the new NFL system- its' hard to believe the Raiders just got bad over a 1 year period and couldn't come back for 9 years.
The Facts?:
The team was already a winner in fact defending AFC Champion when it just lost.
It was not only elite but maybe one of the best built rosters in NFL history.
1. 4 future HOFers who BTW....were either pro bowlers in '02 or some of the best in the league.
2. a genius owner and HOFer who is known as 1 of the best GMs in pro sports history.
3. despite the HC the front office is 1 of the best.
4. the best special teams in the NFL.
Now NY, I want you 2 post why you believe a team like this can lose so badly(4-12 in '03)? O.K. some great teams lost after a playoff trip but started winning again later, not even the 1's that sucked 4 years lost for 9 straight years. And I'm saying Al's Raiders shouldn't have either.
BTW....the team kept trying 2 win and signed more star players and spent more and the league got more upset. Why did they get upset NY?:
1. they had a revenue plan were the league would make money but not spend a lot.
2. they wanted all 32 teams to vote for a new CBA that would cap player contracts.
3. they wanted something that would make PARITY seem to work. that's teams using free agency to get rid of star players to suck so other teams can win.
4. All 32 team must have new stadiums and they lied to fans claiming it was to bring in star free agents.
5. No one player(except a franchise QB, LT or DE) is to get too big contracts. All 32 teams MUST manage the cap. Instead of star players do the Bellichick thing look for high character, tough, smart, hungry and passionate guys who want a chance to play not worry about making money. A team can spend big on maybe 1-2 stars but not a lot of guys.
What did they do NY?:
1. they created a new CBA and it upset the players.
2. they criticized NFLPA boss G. Upshaw about supporting of the players making big money.
3. they wanted 2 change the rules on salary caps where they didn't have to pay young vets and rookies big money.
That's your NFL in the late 90's and present! that's what you are defending!
They aren't those old owners('60s-90s') these are corporations and billionaires owning these teams and they have all kinds of Wall street and college grad marketing people 2 come up with ways to make money.
Al tried 2 stand up 2 them and it was during the slump that he did a lot for the players.
When they claim guys didn't want 2 play for him- now, they look bad because the players were standing up with him against the new CBA!
Dude, these people are powerful, the old owners complained and the NFL cursed when Al did something until they could screw him sometimes(Elway trade) but these people can do a lot worse.
Al wasn't only losing he was:
1. getting attacked in the media far worse than any losing pro sports team in America.
2. his SB coach calls AFC Champions the "Dumbest team in America"!
3. SOMEBODY is telling coaches/ players not to work for him.
4. the team goes on a 9 year losing streak.
5. Al can't make good trades because nobody except the Patriots will trade with him? A 4th round pick, D. Gabriel then R. Moss, really?
Your measure of success is different than mine. We've watched one epic fail after another at least since Gruden was traded. So many that it's a trend. A pattern of failure.
You're so wrapped up in trying to dissect pieces of Raiders history you can't see the forest for the trees. The Raiders haven't just failed as a team, they've failed as an organization.
Every industry has challenges. Successful organizations adapt and grow. The Raiders have done neither.
What they have to show for decades of failures is a new stadium. That's no small feat, but it's a stadium that fills up with fans of the opposing team... another failure of the Raiders on an organizational level.
Btw, CBA deals and other league decisions effected all teams, not just the Raiders.
"Wow, that guy,(Richardson), is going to be a monster at QB if he can adjust to the mental side of it. Heard he can be erratic at times too."
Wasn't this the scouting report for Jamarcus "Busto" Russell ???
Actually, Jamucus showed up at the combine in a moo moo. Richardson has a rep of watching film, working out, doing whatever he can to make himself better. Jamucus, not so much. Jamucus could throw the ball a far distance and that was about it. I don't think the Raiders will have to have a babysitter for Richardson if he is picked, like they did with Jamucus. So no, it's not like Jamucus at all.
I'm not sold on Richardson or Levis. I'd rather draft a QB in later rounds and get a guy like Joey Porter II. Stetson Bennett is a great game manager for a run heavy team, which is what the Raiders should become with Jacobs getting the Franchise Tag. I'm still big on Hendon Hooker too.
It's funny how the Raiders' brass went from "We are going to upgrade the QB position from Carr" to "We are going to try and find our guys." Even McClown is now saying that he will build a system around a QB; but he couldn't for DC.
NY, I think we all know that things like this never end well for the Raiders, and that is why this sucks donkey. We know Carr is going to succeed in the Big Easy; while we will be wishing he was still in silver and black. It seems like the Raiders are just throwing mud on the wall to see what sticks; and they don't have a plan to win. At least McKenzie had a plan to build the interior O-line and D-line. He never got to develop the D-line; but was on track with Jihad Ward, Khalil Mack, Justin Ellis; all of whom Gruden got rid of. Had Mark stayed the course, I believe we would have had a championship by now. Stupid is as stupid does.
I'm scared of Richardson - who I don't believe falls to JaMarcus Russell level - and I'm a hard "no" on Levis. That said, whoever McZeigler pick at #7 I expect to be a star. No margin for error here, QB or not.
Stroud is my first choice! Stroud and Stidham! I can get behind that.
Question, would you trade for Lamar Jackson and give him $40 million guaranteed? I think I would. Raiders have a better O-line, and better weapons than he had in Baltimore. Not having a stout O-line has caused him injuries the last few years. If he can stay upright, we know he can move the pocket, and we know he can fling the ball downfield. I think he is different than Jimmy G, who cannot fling the ball down field, and has played under a very good O-line in San Fran, and still couldn't stay healthy.
Other vet QBs that I would bring in and talk with are:
Gardner Minshew, Carson Wentz, Taylor Heinicke, Case Keenum, and Mason Rudolph. I know these are not "WOW" factor QB's, but free agent QB market is limited.
Here are the QBs I am looking at in the mid rounds of the draft:
Hendon Hooker, Max Duggan (TCU), Dorian Thompson-Robinson (UCLA), Jake Haener (Fresno St), Stetson Bennett (Georgia), Grayson McCall (Coastal Carolina), and Tanner McKee (Stanford).
In fact, I like these guys more than Richardson and Levis. The knocks on Stetson Bennett and Jake Haener is their height; but not their play (Stetson is 5'11" and Haener is 6'0"). Everyone knocked Drew Brees' height too (same size as Haener and me (6 foot even), and he will be in the Hall of Fame one day. Both are great game managers; which that cannot be said about Richardson or Levis. This is just my opinion, but I think this draft class, and who pundits have in the first round as elite QB's will not play out well, with the exception of Stroud. I would be okay trading up for him; but I'd rather go with Joey Porter II and draft a quality QB in the mid rounds.
Max Duggan doesn't get a lot of credit from the pundits. This dude has a high football IQ, and I truly think this is who McDummy is targeting. The same can be said of Hendon Hooker, Dorian Thompson-Robinson, and Grayson McCall. Tanner McKee is the wildcard here. We don't know if he is horrible or if he played on a horrible team. Even if he played on a horrible team; He had 15 interceptions and 28 TDs the last 2 seasons; that does not bode well for NFL play. I'd like to see how he does in his upcoming workouts.
If I understand correctly, Jackson is demanding his new contract be fully guaranteed. Not just one year. The Ravens have tagged him for ~ $35mm, so we'd also have to compensate the Ravens with draft picks... I assume one or more first rounders.
Too much of a sacrifice, IMO. But it's more than that.
IMO, I wouldn't pay for any expensive vet QB. I don't trust McDaniels to work well with any top level QB. Carr is as laid back as they come, and he couldn't work with Carr.
I'm going to repeat what I've said before. It's real simple as far as I'm concerned.
This isn't about choosing the best QB available, nor the QB we think can win. It's all about McDaniels selecting the right QB for his system and his coaching. So far, all we know is that Stidham can work with McDaniels. So can Mac Jones. Maybe Garappolo, but he's several years removed from working with McDaniels.
Beyond that, it falls on McZeigler to get this right. I like Stroud because he'll be a rookie, and that's probably best-case scenario for McDaniels. My expectation is for 2024.... which has me concerned that Adams will be okay with that.
Wait, what? Daniel Friggin Jones just signed a $160mm new contract that gave him up to $94mm guaranteed.
No thanks!
Lamar Jackson is better than Jones and will want way more. Raiders need way too much (defense, O-line, etc) to mortgage their future on a QB who cannot make them a winning team alone.
I'd much rather see the Raiders go with a decent system QB to get the ball to Jacobs and Adams and use all their draft capital and other resources to build a powerhouse defense, for once!
2 first rounders is the asking price for Lamar, plus contract. I start him with $35million guaranteed this year, and upgrade every year based on if he continues to improve and stay healthy.
Also, need to watch this from Derek Carr's nephews and brother David. David had a lot to say about Lamar here, and how he doesn't feel wanted by the Ravens and that effects his play. He says this in comparison to Derek. You really need to hear what he has to say about his perspective on McDaniels about the 25 minute mark. Reveals so much to me that McDummy hasn't learned a thing, and we are going to be hurting at least another 5 or so years.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Js__NKdua0Y
Daniel Jones just got $40M a year. Aaron Rodgers gets $60M. Jackson wants a fully guaranteed contract, and he'd cost two draft picks for the privilege to pay him a record-breaking contract.
Nate, sorry to disappoint you but Jackson isn't coming to the Raiders. The math doesn't work.
You start him at 35 mill? Question is, where does Jackson start? Jackson wants all his money upfront. It's insane and he probably wants Rodgers money as well. All it would take is one play, an injury, and the franchise is ruined for years to come. And just how motivated is a player who is guaranteed all that money? Jackson is the wrong move. IMO, they want to draft a QB that they can start very early in his career. Or, if drafting a top QB is not available, they get Garappolo and draft a QB, in a later round who they can mold for a few years.
Jackson is a superstar. He is an MVP and played in a vanilla offense without any good recievers. Put him with Adams, Waller and JAcobs and it would be star wars. The NFL owners collude and don't want to pay guranteed deals, in every other sport it is the norm. He is worth 50 million a year guaranteed. Two years from now that will be below market value, when guys like Burrow, Hebert etc start getting paid.
If I am Mark Davis I would go for it. Getting a franchise QB at 26 who is not even in his prime yet for two 1st round picks is a no brainer.
If you do not have a QB you have nothing. No one in the draft is a sure thing. Maybe Stroud and but he is no Andrew Luck in terms of his upside. QBs rule the league look at Cinci, Buffalo, KC. Look at the AFC West we need a super star at QB to compete period.
Finally I think we all threw up in our mouth when we saw home games packed with visting fans. Lamar will put Riaders fans in the seats he is dynamic.
Get Carappolo and a mid round QB to mold for a few years, that sounds depressing.
Sandy
NY, I never said the CBA only involved the Raiders.
This is what I said kinda close to it in earlier posts:
The NFL wanted a cap on player salaries and the players were upset and threatened to strike. Al stood up with the players against the new CBA and most of the players supported him. He stood up for all NFL players and not just the Raiders.
NY, I might be going overboard but don't you see Al was still big in sports? that maybe they tampered with Raiders? Your points might look a little sillier after learning he was still very relevant; but you want to use the losses, so-called bad decisions with media claims to prove some of your claims are true.
*Measure success differently?: No NY!, pro sports measures success by one thing- winning and the Raiders haven't done that. But I'm giving an excuse for it and now I don't sound so ridiculous. Al was a top NFL man and found a way to be relevant without winning. Its' true, winning is the best way to judge success but not the only way and Al hit it big by LEADING most of the players against the owners' new CBA! Al's Raiders were losers well, because of years of losing, there's no argument but Al was successful helping the players and kept the Raiders relevant by doing that.
Challenges in Industry?: In a PARITY league? how, if the NFL made it possible for mediocrity to win what kind of challenges would stop Al? I mean the Raiders would have to be the worst front office in pro sports to lose for nine years in a PARITY system!
There are good, band and elite teams and if that's the challenge it seemed Raiders' roster was ready for that challenge.
Nothing but a new stadium?: Oh, but that's what Raidernation wanted! the media told us(in early 00s') that new stadiums help teams win, they're some place for fans to have lots of fun at and they bring in star free agents.
NY, I know you want to win, don't like losing and to leave the past, feel Al's era w? I want to prove NFL can help but Raiders should run their team and Al didn't ruin team. Here's some questions for fans:
So the players wanted Al to help them against the NFL's new CBA but they didn't want to play for him?
The Raiders weren't still irrelevant('03-'11) after Al doing that?
the Raiders couldn't deal with the challenges of the NFL once over a 9 year period? but 31 other teams could?
Al failed on an organizational level?: when he 'screwed' M. Allen yes he did, but did nothing like that sense. The Raiders were a top team in '03 just lost a SB. over the 9 years they had some of the best rosters in the league so you might want to look into that.
I don't get it, Reggie failed on an organizational level I thought his ruining the team was a great overhaul?
I thought Gruden II was going to return this team back to glory except his way not Al's?
These are all their own front offices they aren't the same and aren't Al's era. So, they fail as different regimes not one team that keeps making mistakes.
Sandy, as I've written before, my opinion isn't based on the best QB, it's based on limitations I believe McDaniels has in working with QBs, which we all saw with Carr. I don't see any top vet coming to Vegas unless they get paid, and that might not end well.
It's unfortunate but, IMO, McDaniels limitations has to factor into this discussion.
Jackson is undoubtedly a star, but is he ready and willing to work with McDaniels? Ravens would get two 1st round picks and Jackson would get +/-$50 million per year guaranteed for the Raiders to find out.
I hear you NY we need a different coach. I look at it real simple----the Raiders are going to have to compete with Hebert and Mahomes for the next decade. You are not going to compete with a Jimmy G or a Stindham or perhaps even a Carr. Its time for the Raiders to take a big swing at QB if not Lamar then Rogers for a year or two, otherwise they need to trade up in the draft and go for the QB with the highest ceiling. Finding a "Prudy" type later in the draft will not get it done against Mahomes.
The Raiders taking a big swing at QB will hopefully turn out better than Jamarcus did.
Sandy
That's a fair perspective. Weird, but as much as I'm a fan of Derek Carr, I can't get over how bad he was in the Steelers game and think it may have been time for him to go. Just sucks the way it all went down... and I don't necessarily mean benching him the last two games (that was financial). Carr is a quality person and deserved better treatment all the way around.
I'll say this... if the Raiders can pull off a Jackson trade, that would certainly stir some excitement and be worth watching.
NYR...I for one would not be excited about Raiders trading for Lamar Jackson. Because it would cost Raiders another draft to be wasted.
Raiders would have to pay Jackson as one of the top three Qb's in NFL. Jackson has never won a playoff game, and that's with Baltimore, a stable organization.
Best bet for Raiders is to build up the team, and plug in the Qb later. Put all the eggs in the Jackson basket, and Raiders will only go as far as Jackson can take them. How far has he taken Ravens ?
I think back to when Jim Plunkett was on Raiders. He stepped into a complete team, just needed a Qb, and Plunkett delivered the goods.
Ghost,
I think Lamar wanting an all guaranteed money contract is his way of exposing how Baltimore does not want him to be the QB. I am willing to place money that if he talks with other teams, he will negotiate. If he refuses, then I don't think he will be in the league long. I think it is unfortunate that Deshaun Watson is in the league with a fully guaranteed contract; which is where he got the idea from.
However, I do agree that it would cost us in this draft and the next, unless Josh Jacobs signs elsewhere and we get 2 1st round picks because of the Franchise Tag. For what its worth, Josh Jacobs has removed all Raiders related images on his social media.
Nate75...i agree, the Watson deal, and now the Daniels deal, has made signing Jackson very difficult for the Ravens.
I just don't think Jackson, or even Rogers, are good fits for the Raiders. It would cost so much in draft picks to get them, there would be little left to build a team around them.
What sense to have a high paid Qb on a bad team. Rather build a good team, and find the Qb later.
Ghost, Nate First of all guys the NFL makes more than any other league why are you against guranteed contracts. You must be the only fans who side with the ownrs on this. The average career of an NFL pplayers is 2.5 years and the ones that last longer can't remember their own name or walk when they ar edone. And you want to deny them their money if they get injured. All NFL contract should be guranteed for injury, the owners could even cover their ass with insurance if they were that worried. This is about the owners keeping their control and keeping the players down.
Ghost, Lamar has won a playoff game you are wrong about that. Did anyone actually watch Lamar play in 2021 with one of the most injurdy-ridled teams in history? Do you forget how insane his 2019 season was. He threw for 36 touchdowns to 6 ints and ran for 1,206 yards and 7 touchdowns That is like a pro bowl running back and pro bowl qb in one person. And who is putting up numbers with the 2022 Ravens WR corp (maybe Mahomes)?
Come on guys Lamar is a superstar.
As far as your analogy with Plunkett, dude that was 40 years ago, the league is completely changed. QBs used to complete 52% of balls in those days and running backs were way more important. No one is winning games these days at 52%. Without a superstar at QB there has not been one team going deep into the playoffs for the last few years with exception of San Fran.
Carr was smart he went to the NFC south which sucks. I will say it again if the Raiders want to beat Mahomes they need a superstar QB. Whatever it takes to get it, no matter how many times they strike out that should be the goal until they have one the Raiders will not have success.
Sandy
I've already stated my preference. I prefer the Raiders find a dependable, serviceable QB who can get the ball to Jacobs and Adams and build a powerhouse defense. How far can the Raiders go with the defense they've been fielding year after year. That's what makes blaming Carr so ridiculous. Carr gets dumped on but it was Patrick Graham who had a career worth of failures in one season with the Raiders.
If Graham isn't responsible, then Zeigler better figure it out. Raiders have ample resources!
To Raider Take and NY Raider,
Al Anon.
Mariota!!!!!
Coach him up! use his talents draft a QB and let Mariota lead for a year or two!
He brings athleticism, excitement and electricity.
He's the closest thing to a franchise QB in free agency.
He's a vet and might get this going.
He's also got the same skill set as L. Jackson and TP2.
Richardson as our QB?: I think maybe, somebody else should draft him because this team seems to be tough on athletic QBs' especially if they aren't pocket passers.
If the Raiders want to make a playoff run they need a vet QB and to spend on star free agents.
AFC West?: when Reggie was GM some felt the Raiders could beat the West because well....he would find those high character guys and find good free agents and build a winning team. The Raiders over the years have seen K.C. use size, athleticism and speed to beat them. Denver beats us with big, fast defenses. We now see everybody with a franchise QB except us! What the new Raiders need to do is have a defensive draft and use some other teams' of the past ideas to build a good defense they could use some of Al's ideas too. But they need to stop depending on the owners/ NFL's idea of building teams.
drafting a QB?: I think they should find a guy that's a passer first, so they can teach him about playing NFL QB. if he's a runner or scrambler that makes him more dangerous. And, they won't get upset with him for being an athlete first, if he takes more time to develop.
the new Raiders if they want to win should not do like the other regimes and SPEND on free agents!
Here is where I think we are before free agency and the draft:
WR X
TE X
RB X
QB
OL
PK X
KR
DL/ Crosby could use some young D-linemen. the new Raiders don't put the DL as high on their lists as Al did and could use some advise on drafting good players.
LB/ they need faster younger LBs that can cover tight ends.
DB/ since Al passed this team wants to prove the press CB era is over. the NFL
P X
PR/ they could use another good PR. the last one was J. Richard.
The Falcons already tried to "coach up" Mariota. He got benched, again!
Stidham is better than Mariota in McDaniels system, particularly, if we're only talking about a stopgap measure. IMO, that's not even close. There's no learning curve with Stidham.
But Stidham is not the solution either. Raiders need to do better.
McZeigler dumped Carr and now they need to replace him. They shouldn't take my advice. Hopefully, they're better than I am at this.
Whether it's Levis or Richardson, Jackson or Rodgers, I won't know to be happy or upset until I see the results.
Sandy,
Regarding your question of "First of all guys the NFL makes more than any other league why are you against guaranteed contracts. You must be the only fans who side with the owners on this."
I'm against fully guaranteed contracts because it has ruined baseball. Guys ball out, get big contracts, and nothing after that. Fully guaranteed contracts have given the MLB Players Union way too much power over the owners. Baseball has a lot of financial issues right now, and the Union's grip on it will not allow true competition for all teams, and caters to the big market teams. So you are going to see the Yankees, Dodgers, Red Sox, Braves, Astros, Padres, Mets, Phillies, and Cardinals dominate for a long time. Why? Because they are throwing cash. While the Marlins, A's, Pirates, Reds, D-Bax, Rockies, Angels, Orioles, Rays, Royals, and others struggle because they can't get consistent TV coverage and money to compete. When they do become slightly competitive, they will lose star players to free agency because owners don't have the $$ to spend.
I can guarantee if the NFL went to full guaranteed contracts, it will create a big divide and prevent teams from getting TV contract monies, which will prevent them from being competitive. Al Davis knew this from his days with the AFL, which is why he helped structure the CBA the NFL currently has. This structure of contracts was set by Al Davis with the players union full support behind it. This was one of the last great things Al did for the League and gets ZERO credit for it. I like how the NFL does guaranteed percentages of the contract, and adds incentives to keep the fire going to compete. I'd actually be ok with giving 80-90% guaranteed contracts, and incentives for big name players, and would actually be ok with fully guaranteed contracts for smaller contracts like League minimum to a certain threshold per year. But to fully guarantee a superstar's contract, where would be his incentive to ball out? Imagine if the Raiders had given Antonio Clown a fully guaranteed contract for what he did (which was nothing) and then have to be completely responsible for it? Imagine if Derek Carr had a fully guaranteed contract with no trade clause, and all the stuff that happened last year and he was still on the team? Do you think he'd ball out?
Sandy...I am not calling for a return to 1980's football. Although I wouldn't mind 1980's results for the Raiders.
All I am saying is back in 1980, the Raiders were struggling with Dan Pastorini at Qb. When Plunkett stepped in, it turned out the Raiders had a pretty good team. So good in fact, they won the super bowl.
Today, the Raiders have a choice to make. Use #7 pick for a young Qb, or take the best defense player, and finally, finally, begin to address to defense. We'll see what they do in April.
At least with baseball contracts that are guaranteed, there is less chance of a career ending injury than there is with football. 300 mill guaranteed in football is almost a guarantee that you will lose wads of cash because the player would not be able to finish out the contract because of injury. If and when that happens, your team is screwed. The risk/reward thing becomes too great in favor of risk and it is a big risk. Look at Cleveland with Deshaun Watson, that was the dumbest signing ever and some want to repeat that? Raiders are not playing for the playoffs next year. It will be another rebuilding year until the QB position can be solidified with a contract that makes sense.
No, they didn't coach up Mariota!
what they did was let their best chance to make the playoffs go in for whatever reason I can't really think of.
But they went with a rookie and lost the rest of the season. Mainly because they decided to look to next season.
Never in Mariota's career has he complained about his teams. He was complaining about not getting a chance to help the Falcons win. We already know he wasn't the best passer but he had the Falcons moving and they just like the Raiders with TP2 decided to go with a rookie with time to maybe, have a winning season.
You guys will support any generic and cheap move by the Raiders then complain when/ if it sucks.
Somebody wanted C. Keenum, somebody said trade for L. Jackson. You know the Raiders aren't going to make big trades. The D. Adams trade now looks worse than the C. Palmer trade. Wow! you bring in a pro bowl receiver and later get rid of his young vet QB? They don't sign star free agents because they are loyal to the system that the NFL wants all teams to follow:
Be cheap, don't guarantee contracts and don't allow star players to bring drama to your team with holdout threats and big contract demands.
* Stidham is better than Mariota?: if you want football and not exciting, electric big play football. The guy is a good back up QB not a guy to be a big play maker.
Just how many QBs' have we had that were good back ups and game managers dealing with the mediocrity these new regimes bring in and we listen to the hype that these guys came from winning teams and we should let them do their jobs?
how many game managers/ good back ups have the new Raiders had?:
N. Peterman
J. Stidham
E.J. Manuel
M. Schuab/ was getting worn by the time Reggie signed him.
exciting QBs' with the new regimes:
M. McGloin/ he wasn't a winning QB but his attitude was what this team needed.
TP2/ maybe somebody in the NFL wasn't really happy that he was still with them in '13. he gets injured and only plays a few times and is later traded.
M. Mariota
C. Palmer/ the best QB since '11 played one year with Reggie's team in '12.
Oh yes, Palmer is the best QB other than Carr. He was a pro bowler, he did take the Bengals to the playoffs and was a pro bowler with the Cardinals.
Raiders resign the fav RT on this site, Brandon Parker. There must be something to him, multiple regimes have signed him. Now if they could sign TP2, M. Mariota and J Ford this team would be goin places.
Uh oh
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLTZavs4WAo&list=RDMMMe1NjUH9Obo&index=11
Put the pipe down
Would rather spill some wine?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-Xs7NK-7B8&list=RDMMMe1NjUH9Obo&index=12
At only 26 (Jackson won’t turn 27 until January 2024), the two-time Pro Bowler has 101 passing touchdowns in the regular season, only 38 interceptions and a 96.7 passer rating. As a dual-threat passer, Jackson is without peer in today’s game and is arguably the best ever. He has rushed for more than 1,000 yards twice. He has 24 rushing touchdowns and a 6.1-yard average, which is stunning for a quarterback.
The best ever? But is he worth 50 mill cash, upfront every season? He gets hurt often, you want to give up that amount of cash and draft choices to get him? It ain't your money, right?
It's all speculation but I can't help but measure my opinion on what I think McDaniels will do and what he can handle. Short of Mark Davis forcing the issue, I don't see the Raiders bringing in an expensive vet that might "bully" McDaniels outside of his system of coaching, i.e., outside of the system he pressed Derek Carr to perform in.
IMO, the only reason they might consider a vet QB right now is because of all their offensive weapons. It's not very often the Raiders will have players like Adams, Jacobs, Waller and Renfrow all at the same time. However, an expensive vet QB likely still leaves the Raiders without a stout defense.
This thing could go either way... win now vet QB or full-on rebuild mode in 2023-2024. Either way, I don't believe McDaniels or Zeigler are at risk of losing their jobs... unless Gruden III.
Media report Danzel Perryman is about to hit free agency. That's a step in the wrong direction for the Raiders defense. Perryman had 154 tackles two years ago, and 14 tackles for loss last season. The Raiders run defense is noticeably better when Perryman is on the field. Not sure how the Raiders expect to compensate for losing Perryman. He's an enforcer in the middle.
Panthers traded up to #1 for a QB. That means 3 QBs will be off the board when the Raiders pick at #7.
Hopefully, the Raiders go defense with their top pick.
clean the room(s)
vacuum the room
change the sheets
put the towel in the laundry basket
wash down phone rooms
Bud Grant was one of the best coaches in the NFL. He was a quite kind of coach I don't remember him getting upset on the side lines.
You can say he never won a super bowl title but he was a very good HC.
His teams were not only talented but well coached.
He took the Vikings to four super bowls and lost one of them to the Oakland Raiders.
His teams lost but they didn't lose to one year wonders they were some of the best ever NFL teams(Dolphins, Steelers, Raiders).
Like the Bills his teams will be put on the lower level of great teams but those teams had a great HC.
RIP
Bud Grant
Bud's Legend's
F. Tarkanton
* H. Walker
C. Foreman
S. Voight
A. Rashad
R. Moss
R. Yary
E. White
M. Tinglehoff
* R. McDaniel
* G. Zimmerman
J. Marshall
A. Page
* K. Millard
C. Eller
D. Edwards
J. Seimon
M. Blair
C. Lee
B. Bryant
P. Krauss
* J. Browner
G. Coleman (P)
* A. Carter (KR)
* C. Patterson (PR)
Raiders play makers
R. Gannon
C. Garner
M. Van Eagan
Z. Miller
J. Rice
F. Biletnikoff
A. Shell
S. Wisnewski
D. Dalby
M. Marvin
R. Mix
J. Jeager
J. Matuzak
R. Kinlaw
A. Thoms
A. Smith
T. Hendricks
D. Conners
J. Robinson
S. Thomas
E. Allen
J. Tatum
T. Branch
S. Lechler (P)
I. Matthews (KR)
J. Richard (PR)
* means didn't play for Bud Grant.
Legal tampering starts tomorrow.
I hope the Raiders are ready, have a plan and execute it smartly.
What are the chances?
Vikings' (K) F. Cox
To NY Raider and other Anon,
* So, you want to get L. Jackson? I thought it was not a good thing to make big trades anymore?
C. Keenum? he'd be a good QB but a stop gap guy who could make games look good and not embarrass the team but his job would be to win enough so we keep spending while 'their guy' learns to play NFL QB if they draft a QB, or they could rebuild but try to make the playoffs and get us to spend by using Jimmy G. as a game manager to make the season look better if we don't make the playoffs.
When you had a QB with the same skill set, but not as good as Jackson- but was making huge plays you didn't think it was a big deal when Reggie traded him(TP2).
Richardson?: you claim Al ruined this team with athletes instead of football players yet, when these new regimes bring them in its' a great move by guys who know how to teach them to be winners.
So, you still think the D. Adams trade was o.k. but you don't think the C. Palmer trade wasn't?
The Raiders had a young QB and talent at WR. The new regime trades their top picks for a pro bowl WR.
The Al Raiders were moving toward the playoffs and wanted badly to make it to honor Al. Their starting QB get's injured so Hue trades high draft picks for a pro bowl QB who was a top 10 NFL guy. But, somehow the Raiders don't make the playoffs and fans want to say it was a bad trade.
Now, a new regime comes in knowing the QB is a good one, trades for a pro bowl WR but then decides they don't want the QB meaning they're looking for one and will have to spend on one.
Which one of these moves is the most questionable?
* The reason why the new Raiders don't have a better DL is because none of the new regimes except maybe Reggie's look for those pass rushing types. They get the best player they can find and coach 'em up!
Al looked for the best and guys with potential.
Some of the guys these four regimes drafted or UDFA's:
Gruden II's('18-'19)/ M. Crosby, M. Hurst.
Al's('03-'11)/ T. Scott, M. Brodine, Q. Moses, D. Tollefson, A. Hawthorn, L. Houston, T. Sands, J. Richardson, D. Bryant.
Reggie's('12-'17)/ K. Mack, D. Autry, S. Harris, S. McGee, 'Jelly' Ellis.
Pats guys'('22)/ Ferrell Jr., M. Butler.
Today is a big day. We perhaps get a glimpse into the Raiders plan, or lack thereof.
The day starts with Jared Stidham agreeing to sign with the Broncos. Does that mean the Raiders didn't want him back? Or can we add Stidham to the list of QBs who don't want to work with Josh McDaniels?
QB options are running thin after the Panthers trade up to #1 (leaving 3 teams drafting QBs ahead of the Raiders), Brady retires, Rodgers proves to be unreachable at this critical time, Texans are actively pursuing Garoppolo, and Jackson is probably too costly (or entirely out of reach to the Raiders).
Raiders suddenly look like they could be selecting from the second tier of free agents and the second level of draft picks. That could quickly place us back to pre-Derek Carr status in the QB room. What a disappointment that would be.
Meanwhile, Perryman is testing the market, so the Raiders stand to lose their 2nd best defensive player.
I don't think I'm exaggerating any of this. It's all what we know at the moment.
Perhaps this makes sense if the Raiders have a line on Garoppolo. But Garoppolo made it clear he does not want to be a bridge QB, so the Raiders probably don't get Garoppolo and draft a high-level rookie, like Richardson, Levis, etc.
All we can do is hope the Raiders are smarter than they appear to be.
Bingo!
Garoppolo to sign with Raiders!
It might not be sexy but it's affordable and the Raiders can focus on defense.
Light at the end of the tunnel.
IMO, they still draft a QB, just not in the first round. But, hey, who knows.
They better get the O-line right, or else Jimmy won't last long. This looks like they will go defense with the top pick. They will have some excellent talent to choose from. Didn't go for the big homerun at QB which IMO, is a good sign. Build the D, if the D is good, then the O doesn't have to work so hard to keep scoring.
Jimmy G is a few rungs below Carr but if he stays healthy wiht the weapons around him the Raiders could be competitive. Still the entire Carr thing was a disaster, to think they could have traded him last year to the Colts for two firsts then end up with nothing and sign a lesser QB.
Apparently the Raiders tried to trade up to 1 but were outbid by the Panthers. With a little luck Jalen Carter falls to 7
Sandy
I think if the Raiders had traded Carr before we knew that McDaniels and Carr can't work together we all would have been apoplectic. It was a hard lesson to learn and clearly set the Raiders back. Even in hindsight, it makes no sense.
At least with Garoppolo, he and McDaniels have a history. And Garoppolo is a notable step up from Jarett Stidum. IMO, under the circumstances, that's the comparison to make.
Raiders could still draft a QB. Hopefully, not at the expense of a quality defender.
The only sense it makes is that the 2 couldn't get along and didn't see things in the same light. Now, McDaniel has a guy that can be on the same page as himself and has a history of working with.
Garoppolo has a history of winning, he also has a history of hurting. It's a better fit for the new regime until he gets hurt. The backup better be a good signing.
Now get the O-line fixed up and the D taken care of and this team could make some noise next year.
The O should be at least as good as last year's? Adams had a big year, Jacobs had a huge year and they still have gas in the tank. It's all about the D, they need to get the D up to speed quickly, a good influx of draft choices and a few FA's, it's on the GM. Get it done.
Be cheap! don't take chances, be a mediocre team, don't try to be a better team.
Al's Raiders were a joke?:
had one of the best teams in the NFL
just lost a super bowl
had four future HOFers on '03 roster
barely missed hiring S. Peyton
were defending AFC Champions in '03
may've drafted Jamarcus but had mostly good drafts '03-'11.
had some of the best D-line and secondary units in the NFL '03-'11
the four regimes:
drafts a franchise QB and gives him a $100 M contract before he wins a playoff game, then lets him walk when he is still a young vet QB.
has some of the worst defenses in the NFL for over 10 years.
signs another Patriots' QB without the other talent they had to be a dynasty.
fires some of the best talent in the NFL and brings in their players/ front office and only has two playoff games to show for it.
ruins four chances out of five to 1st round draft picks.
Now we get Jimmy G. and the Pats' guys in charge of building a defense! Wow Raidernation! you might need some talking to by friends or city and gov. (gov/ city) consumer scam experts to give you some advise.
and another well thought out and original post by the re-poster of the same points over and over. Hey Pops, your wifi stereo is skipping again.
Hey man, it's 2023, tell us why Jay Schroeder sucked, or was he another hall of famer? Bring back Jacoby, bring back Carson because that was obviously a glorious time in Raider history.
But as we know, the whole world is against the Raiders and even if they had a team full of future hall of famers, the wouldn't win because .
Got it, how bout movin on?
Raiders are hitting free agency with Garoppolo, Epps and Facyson. They're being aggressive but all these guys are middle of the pack. They are also missing out on some of the best defensive talent in this FA market.
So far Bears are big winners and Eagles are big losers.
Broncos got an elite HC and some interior line help. That's impressive.
So much work to do.
NY, I agree remember how much cap space they had left over last year and how we were all mystified by them not signing o-lineman in free agency. I saw Ben Pwoers signed by Denver as you mentioned he would have been a solid addition for the Raiders. Epps does not excite, Facyson he is a backup like he was a few years ago on the Raiders. Sure hope they add some star power like Lavonte Daivd, saw Miami signed DAvid Long for reasonable money. Not sure what they are waiting for. What about Poyer or Dremont Jones
Sandy
Sandy, I don't think they know their own plan. They were desperate to make a splash at QB and, apparently, they tried to trade up for the #1 pick. Unsuccessful in that, now three QBs will be off the board when they pick. Do they still pick a QB out of desperation?
Raiders have a knack for bypassing the best college defenders to reach for guys like Ferrell, Arnette, Abram and others. Obviously, it dates back well before McZeigler, but should we expect them to continue what has become Raiders tradition?
Nobody can fault them for picking the consensus-best available defender. But if they reach for a QB and it fails, it will just be another big setback.
I think they should draft a QB, just not early. They need to take care of business first. Defense!
Jakobi Meyers?
The Raiders now have a full compliment of offensive weapons, possibly like never before, but they still need an O-line.
Can someone phone the front office?
How will Jimmy G even find all the weapons he has? Carr couldn't.
Jacoby Ford, Jimmy knows the system that Carr couldn't seem to grasp.
Let's face it, McDaniels didn't want to work with Carr. He did some things last season that wasn't playing to Carr's strengths. Rumors of Carr not liking the way he was treated in the film room etc.
So the new regime has a QB they can work with, last year was a mulligan, this year is a prove it year. They have plenty of draft picks, cap space to get this team to be competitive. It's on the GM, he has to come through or else we will have to accept that Mark is just treading water.
Jimmy has a long history of getting hurt, Raiders better sign a decent back up.
About $12.5 million left in cap space, after Crosby reworked his deal. Raiders spend top $$ to bring in the best free agent WR available but still haven't addressed either line.
Let's hope re-signing Brandon Parker wasn't their solution to RT. And Hankins was their best interior DL-man until they cut him last season... which isn't saying much. Their run defense dropped off when Hankins left, and even more when Perryman was injured. Now Perryman is probably gone in FA.
So far, the defense is worse, by attrition. Facyson isn't an improvement. Epps, maybe.
Early on, this thing is going sideways, IMO. Jimmy G needs protection... and a defense.
I get it, Rome wasn't built in a day. These are just my early observations.
WTF WTF WTF. Waller for a 3rd round pick, that is disgraceful. He was only making 11 million and when healthy probably the third best player on the team. What is the plan. I am so sad he was a great player and person. What is the plan now? They better sign a stotal defensive stud or oline with all the cap they have. Ziegler and McDaniels are idiots.
Sandy
To NY and other Anon!
Well, Raidernation here they go! its' lets bring in a WR we don't really need and BTW....its' and ex-Patriots' WR to go with its' ex-Patriots' QB. but just like in the past except for DL R. Seymore and OT T. Brown they're not star players!
The new regimes bypass star college players because they have a plan that says its' good to get guys that are more high-character and smarter that fit in a system than a star guy asking for a lot of money.
But with the Gruden regime the didn't want them to pick star players- they want the Raiders to be an NFL team and do the NFL way system.
You fans can at least contact the media and ask questions about these guys but you'll just wait until after the draft and complain about how they once again, didn't do much and then reached in the 1st round again.
This is the fan base that claims it at least has a modern NFL team. Wow! what a team!
There's a lot of blogs and media you fans could at least get on the web and complain to them about this regime/ team. It might not do any good but the ticket prices and the mediocrity of this team is just too much for any loyal fan base to take and maybe talking to media might get them to ask questions- you didn't worry about Al's era and the media's attacks but you don't seem to want to question the three other ones.
One of the receivers had to go, it was either Renfro or Waller. Too much money invested in the O rec's. Getting only a 3rd round pick shows what the league thinks of his contract. He is an injury risk and has seemed to be hesitant to get back on the field since the injuries started to happen. Sounds like they are trying to sign a TE out of GB. Seems they want more of a blocking TE than a guy who can create matchup problems for the other team.
Seems McDaniels is ridding the team of guys who don't want to be there. Maybe Jacobs is next? Gruden guys who seem to want Gruden back doesn't seem to sit well with Josh.
What a shame! Couldn't they have just reworked Waller's contract to save some cap space? And how can Waller not be worth a 2nd round pick. Didn't we pay 1st and 2nd for Adams?
This isn't over. Rumors are swirling that Renfrow might be on the block too!
McDaniels and Zeigler own this. You don't trade for Adams and sign Meyers in a rebuild.
Where are the linemen? And DBs? And LBs?
57 of PFF's top 100 free agents are off the board. I don't remember such a massive scramble to sign free agents. Free agency doesn't actually start until tomorrow.
This is insane...
Obviously, Waller wouldn't agree to a redo of his contract. He has been hesitant getting back on the field and his contract is not good. With all that is happening, yes, they seem to have a plan and crying over every move is a waste of energy. Just wait until it all plays out before shedding the tears or saying to yourself, this doesn't seem too bad. It's on the GM to get it done, let him do his job and then criticize if need be. Freakin out now because you don't know the inner workings of what they are trying to do, is kid stuff.
Just making observations. It's still a Raiders blog, right? Should we go away and come back in September?
The free agent frenzy going on across the league is what I'm calling insane.
Interesting. Raiders now have 12 draft picks. They have 5 picks in the top 110. I anticipate they will use picks to trade up for key players on their board.
I felt that Waller didn't want to be with the Raiders last year after not hiring Bisaccia. He was one of the more vocal support for him; and like Carr, McDaniels didn't seem too interested in him either. Hondo Carpenter is reporting that the Raiders are fielding calls for Hunter Renfrow too.
The more concern has been Davante Adams and Josh Jacobs response to Jimmy G and the Waller trade on twitter. Josh Jacobs tweeted at 1:30pm CST (Mar 14th) "$hits sad fr" Davante Adams has since taken his tweet down from yesterday which indicated that he was not in the loop about Jimmy G.
McClown lost Stidham to the Doncos as well, and some other free agents I thought we should have pursued and not sure if they did or not. We will be in for another sad season.
Every year, it's the same thing over and over. trying to hype the OH NO, the sky is falling reactions, gets old. Raider fans have been dealing with this stuff for a long time and still fans act shocked and betrayed by some moves, really, should we be shocked about anything anymore?
It's a new regime, let them make their moves before calling them failures or winners. Getting all riled up over moves when they haven't completed the process, seems kind of dumb to me.
Why get Meyers at all?
Oh yea, look at the free agents these guys are bringing in!
the great Raidernation fan base once again is being conned by the NFL and its' more than the hateful Raiders' front the hateful front created by the owners/ NFL to keep us spending money while they tell the front office what to do- its' the NFL wanting the team to look more like a model franchise and make money but not really do much until they are sure they are totally a new team and are about the NFL and money not trying to follow Al's ideas.
*Trading Waller: The Patriots don't dislike freakish athletes they don't like paying them! so maybe the Pats' guys just decided they didn't want him on the team anymore.
Funny though, the Patriots seem to like them when they come from the Raiders(R. Moss, D. Burgess, T. Scott).
O.K. so we'
Pops? let me teach you young fans something!
1. fool me 5 times shame on me fool me another time shame on me!
2. don't wait 12 years for somebody who doesn't like to come through on a promise to help you.
3. just because a front office might come from a dynasty doesn't mean it brought the guys who built it with them.
making the same posts over and over!:
being conned over and over! the Raiders don't try to build to win much less be a dynasty!
Wow! if Al was a joke and a sad situation to look at, then what does that make his creation(Raidernation)? you guys are waiting for the NFL because that's who tells the Raiders what they can do to help you make the Raiders into winners! and you want to complain about me talking about Al's era!?
Again? Al's era:
keep talking about how good they were
keep talking about how many HOFers they had.
keep talking about the NFL's bias.
But its' true and it is a mystery that they lost so much('03-'11).
Again? new regimes('12-present):
being cheap in free agency
trading away/ not re-signing or releasing the best players.
not admitting the front office doesn't really have a game plan.
bringing in another vet QB they know instead of a star free agent vet QB.
trading for a guy then letting him go the before next season.
not building up the defense.
* Now they start free agency by letting their young QB walk, bringing in cheap vets and trading a top NFL player.
No, Adams' tweet was about the press hounding him for Rodgers info. Jacobs isn't happy because they franchised him. Seems the Gruden guys are getting shipped out, he wants McDaniel guys. Raiders actually came out and said they are including Adams in the QB process.
Not a big deal but Adams was told he'd be involved in the process, and when (or before) the decision was made, he was not even contacted. A bit of bait and switch.
And I'm not sure I get the point of trading Waller and signing Jakobi Meyers. Now the Raiders need a TE.
So the Raiders get nothing for Derek Carr and a late 3rd round pick for Waller. Honestly, there's plenty to criticize there.
NY, Completely agree McDaniels and Ziegler have dismantled a playoff team. Downgraded at QB lost Carr for nothing, Traded a top 4 TE for peanuts. Last year with a ton of cap space they did not adress the secondary or th eO Line. This year with a ton of cap space they have not addressed the secondary which is among the worst in football and the offensive line.
It is like they are purposley destroying the team. THEY SUCK. OF course Jacobs and Adams are pissed they are pro bowl players and they came here to win the Raiders are not trying to win. Total joke. I daydream about Gruden not resigning and Ruggs not going to Top Golf things owuld be so diffeent now.
Sandy
Raiders are signing LB Robert Spillane for two years at $9M. That's pretty hefty contract for an undrafted rotational player.
McZeigler must have a lot of confidence in their drafting ability.
The Eagles still have key defensive free agents available. Raiders should pair Epps with one of them.
"Every year, it's the same thing over and over. trying to hype the OH NO, the sky is falling reactions, gets old."
And every year the Raiders disappoint. It's par for the course.
Except this off-season we're fresh off a year which McDaniels inability to coach some pretty good players was on full display. He and Zeigler were supposed to make the Raiders better, not worse. Put it this way, McDaniels had nothing on Bisaccia, who's never been a HC. McDaniels got schooled by Jeff Saturday. So maybe "let's wait and see" isn't good enough. Raiders need to be better now, when it's extremely important.
Dumping Carr and Waller and getting one 3rd round pick doesn't exactly exude confidence in their abilities. Maybe Carr had to go, but Waller for a 3rd round pick?
And instead of top FA defensive players, we're signing Facyson and Spillane.
You said ANYTHING the Raiders do to replace Al Davis now you're already claiming negative things about the Pats' guys.
Let other teams get the stars because media/ NFL claims you don't need stars and you said the same things.
These guys are supposed to be from a dynasty so they know what they're doing!
They will draft average players put them in a winning system.
You don't pay guys in a sport where they can get seriously injured big money. That money is so you can afford new stadiums so you can pay star free agents you might not sign.
Oh, just give them a chance to show the Raiders(NFL) who hired them that they are a great front office!
This is the group of guys who try and attack my opinions and conspiracy theories.
This is the regime they say give a chance!
we don't want to go back to Al:
bad decisions
bad management
dysfunction
past his prime
bad drafts
overpaid contracts
better teams in the division
more losses than any NFL team
ugly, old stadium
bad coaches
bad quarterbacks
we want to stay with the present and new regimes:
terrible defenses
trading star players or letting them walk for sometimes nothing in return.
bad drafts and reaching in the 1st round a lot.
supporting NFL people you don't even know anything about.
cheap free agents
trading WRs' for nothing in return(C. Patterson, D. Waller).
overcharging fans for season tickets.
not building up D
letting inexperienced NFL people from other teams get run the front office.
Not telling new front office when to let others give advise or make decisions.
letting NFL have too much say in what you do.
not spending on star free agents and using media hype to make signing cheap ones look good.
having a new beautiful stadium but not letting fans have their fun(parking lot events and fan groups in the stands).
Wow Raidernation you sure you are better than Al era? because you sure got a lot of things to look at in the present!
Colts are trading Stephon Gilmore to the Cowboys for a 5th round pick. Geez! Gilmore is a top CB in the league.
I guess I question why the Raiders are even targeting guys like Facyson and Spillane during the legal tampering period before free agency begins. Don't they have other priorities, and won't players at this level be available later, say, after free agency actually begins?
Do you think there were better offers for Waller? And if so, why weren't they taken?
What is going to make the team better, is by making the D better. Carr and Waller gone with Jimmy signed, saves a lot of cap space and provides more resources to get the D better.
Carr situation was strange, it looks as though they thought Carr and McDaniels would be a good fit, then as the season rolled along, it became clear it wasn't. Carr had a contract that no one would pay for, so he wasn't really trade-able. It became clear to the league that Carr and McDaniel were not going to be able to work together, so teams just waited it out and there were only a couple of teams who were serious about signing him as a FA.
Waller has been injured a lot lately and he is getting old. He also had a contract that no one wanted, but they got him traded and his salary dumped.
The team is obviously in another transition, I will give them rope to hang themselves and it will be getting tied and ready if things are melting down. Right now, there are moves but every year has them. The marking grade is incomplete and the moves will not be rated until they play or at least until the roster is set.
Benefit of the doubt enough rope to hang them give me a break man. They took a playoff team last year and turned into a losing record.
Tagged Josh Jacobs
- Re-signed Ameer Abdullah, Netane Muti, Brandon Parker, Jesper Horsted, Jakob Johnson & Roderic Teamer
- Signed Jimmy Garoppolo, Marcus Epps, Brandon Facyson, Jakobi Meyers, Phillip Dorsett & Robert Spillane
- Traded Darren Waller
There's no way you can say that at this point in time the Raiders haven't taken a step back even since last year's disaster . there's not a person in the NFL who would Place Jimmy Garoppolo over Derek Carr.
That's all fair and reasonable. But at the same time, I think it's fair to scratch our heads and wonder WTF. In my estimation, the McZeigler crew has already hung themselves with the short rope they've been given. And I was a proponent of bringing them to LV. Honestly, it's been tough to watch.
Darren Waller's contract was crafted by Zeigler in 2022. So now it's untenable?
Carr's contract was crafted by Zeigler too. These deals were stupid and worthless. It's like the Raiders are handing out participation trophies. Together, the Raiders have a 3rd round pick to show for their two best offensive players, both signed last year.
Carr's deal provided a no-trade while also allowing a guarantee vesting date that was inexcusable. The Raiders were offered (2) first rounders for Carr last year but couldn't get a bag a chips for him this year. That's poor management.
It's not for Carr's value. Plenty of teams wanted him. The Saints are paying him $150M, with $60M in advance and fully guaranteed. That's more than the Raiders were paying.
The Raiders chose not to exercise Jacobs option and are paying extra for it now. Granted, who knew Jacobs would win a rushing title.
The Raiders failed to truly address the O-line last year, and now appear to be sitting on their hands. Unless re-signing Parker is a revelation.
They shuffled the D-L last year and ended up worse off for it.
Coaching was abysmal last year. Too many failures to list them all. Notably, McDaniels shut down the Raiders 2-minute offense to end the first half, and often went too conservative when leading in the second half. Meanwhile, Patrick Graham presided over the worst defense I can remember, surrendering big leads in NFL record fashion.
This is only scratching the surface.
Now, I question why, during a critical two-day legal tampering period, the cap-friendly Raiders are aggressively pursuing fringe players to add depth when top-level free agents are getting signed by other teams.
And who knew we needed a WR instead of DL, OL, LB, CB, S, etc.
Fortunately for the Raiders (and for us), they can be stupid and still be successful on some level. But like you said, the latter is still yet to be determined.
NY,
Well written post. As you know I was down on the new regime from the start. I always thought McDaniels is a goofball.
I would like to add something to what you posted. How about giving the fans meaningful explanation on what the hell is going on. You are right you sign all these players to long term contracts then give them away 12 months later.
What is really buggin me is how often McDaiels and Ziegler lie. Here are three quotes that are good exapmles
We're not rebuilding
Waller will be a big part of the offense
We'll address RT
Sandy
Maybe this is just rumor, or maybe it got personal... regarding Waller.
https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/aces_star_kelsey_plum_adds_to_darren_waller_josh_mcdaniels_speculation/s1_13132_38582037
It's hard to believe trading Waller for a 3rd round pick will improve the team in any way. There are many ways to create more cap space. That concept has always been overblown by media. Al Davis worked the cap for years when the Raiders were over the cap. They are far better this year than most years.
Raiders now have a significant hole to fill at TE, and nobody they bring in will be the pass catcher that Waller is.
It's the same thing that happened when Gruden took over, he jettisoned McKenzie's players and wanted to build his own team. Gruden wasn't impressed with the roster and it looks like the new guys aren't impressed with the core that Gruden left. Obviously there was a rift between these players and the coaching. Obviously they were signed because they were thought of as being part of the core. But, obviously something happened in the locker room and it needs to be cleaned out. What does it tell you what the rest of the league thinks of Waller and his contract? If there were teams ready to throw a 1st rd pick at the Raiders, ya think they would have taken it? And we heard all the rumors of all the teams giving Carr the red carpet treatment to get him to sign, oh wait, they didn't. There was one or 2 teams teams other than the Saints and it was only the Saints who were serious.
I think I heard somewhere that this new regime would rather build the team through the draft because as history shows, trying to build a team through FA, doesn't work. So, here they are, cleaning out Gruden's boys and bringing in their own. And if I remember right, you guys did the same routine when Gruden started dumping McKenzie players.
This is what the Raiders are right now, I'm not going to cry and kick and scream all over again. Been down that river many times now, maybe we should kind of mature a little and just realize this is what we have and it's changing again, let's see what happens, huh? Give them a chance at a full draft, they haven't had 1 yet. Like I said, I giving them some rope and hopefully they will draft the lights out and building through the draft will become the norm? Ya never know.
Yes, it's out there that Waller was really mad at McDaniel for mentioning his upcoming wedding at the combine. Waller has been hesitant to play a full season and gets hurt easily. 3rd rounder is all they could get for him, maybe you are over valuing Waller? Same with Carr, if Carr was as good as you think, many teams would have come knocking at his door, that wasn't the case.
Overvaluing? A late third-round pick isn't exactly market.
Hey, I'm not making this up. It's being written for me. Carr got more than the Raiders were paying him. And Waller was reportedly a key part of the team a week ago, and then yesterday he wasn't. He's a top-three TE in the league and the Raiders should have been able to do more than a late 3rd round pick (I don't need to know much about the NFL to know that). The thing that stands out more than the Raiders dumping him is the unnecessary void they created at the TE position. Chiefs have Kelce and the Raiders had Waller, but now they don't.
For what's worth, Gruden made it clear that he was dismantling the team, and he got value for Mack and Cooper (despite wasting some of that bounty). As painful as that was to watch, there wasn't the pretense we're experiencing now.
The McZeigler craziness lives in a world by itself. It was never going to be a rebuild, but clearly it is. I get the Carr thing. That happens.
These guys would make good politicians.
You have to look at it from their point of view too. Because they are the ones who run the team, not the players.
Again, if the Raiders could have gotten more for Waller, don't you think they would have taken it? Simple yes or no will do. Waller has been shy to get on the field, he has been hurt a lot lately, yes, you are over valuing him. Just like you did with Mack and Cooper.
Carr was only courted by the Saints, IMO, they gave him that contract to show him that they believe in him. Signing Carr to a low contract or trying to get him on the cheap, how would that make Derek feel? Probably wouldn't have given him much confidence after what he just went through in Vegas. There were no reports of teams drooling over Carr and there were reports of only one team being truly interested.
Do you remember yours and other's responses to Gruden when he started let go of the O-line? Gruden redid the O-line and you guys still hated him for it. You hated Gruden for trading Mack, who wanted to be the highest paid D player in the league and time has shown he was never worth it. Then you all screamed when Cooper was traded, saying that GRUDEN IS RUINING A PLAYOFF TEAM, the exact reaction as now.
And now, Gruden was the good guy and now the new regime that wants a team in their image, are the bad guys. It's like clockwork. You and other's are just as predictable as the Raiders, going round and round in your misery and for what?
Al and Moss Al and Moss
Hey, its' pops Al Anon!
Stuck in the past and trying to get these youngsters to stop getting conned by the NFL/ owners.
We want to win but we also want to be accepted by the NFL. O.K. but don't you think its' time to start seeing better results?
Over the past year I've
Is this the Raiders or the 'brand' being used by the league?
What about the promises made by the media/ NFL not the team? If
We are one of the biggest fan bases in the world yet we don't feel like its' worth it to tell media/ NFL that this
It was a mistake moving to L.V. and BTW....why did all those old execs really resign?
You think the Raiders are making decisions then why do the moves look so hateful and insincere and really nothing to do with winning?
We are cheap and refuse to admit maybe both other systems with the NFL system might help this team.
You think being cheap and coaching up good high character players will win. That's o.k. but why let them tell you having bigger, faster guys is bad?
You claim the past two years the Raiders had a lot of talent but the front office ruined it with bad decisions and some talk about the NFL or some bias keeping them from winning. But when I talk about a guy who had a lot of talent and was hated by the NFL and most of us know they hated him possibly being tampered with and treated unfairly you just go and claim it was his fault for ruining the Raiders.
You don't want to live in the past but you don't want to question the NFL because you are waiting for them to help these regimes build a winner.
We want this team to win but we need to question Al's last 9 years but also question these changes in front office and what the NFL's role is in this situation.
The Raiders and Patriots have found some good players from each other. The Pats' guys seem to be bringing in a lot of ex-Patriots is this a good move? Well, Raidernation seems to think it is because some played for their dynasty. Al used to find some great players but other than the Moss trade never made a trade he didn't get something out of it. Here are some ex-Patriots he had with Raiders:
Al Patriots
J. Plunkett
M. Garrett
L. Neal
D. Hasselbeck
WR- ?
WR- ?
S. Jordan
P. Harlow
J. Condo(LS/ LB)
OG- ?
R. Holloway
K- ?
R. Seymore
D. Rowe
B. Golic (drafted by NE as a LB)
B. Hamilton
M. Hawkins
J. Condo(LS/ LB)
OLB- ?
M. Haynes
T. Poole
S- ?
SS- ?
R. Camarilo (P)
spring is near but we need to be careful because of the Cornavirus too. Make sure you get your medications but also make sure to make your home able to handle allergies by cleaning and finding ways to get rid of dust and allergens in the home.
Also, don't forget you can help yourself/ allergy victims by getting enough water and eating fruits and vegetables and taking taking vitamins.
who in their right minds want to be "accepted by the NFL"? We became Raiders/fans because they were the anti-league team and because their uni's are the best. We are rebels, remember? And if you think all Raider fans are on their knees begging the league to cater to the Raiders, you got it wrong, bro. The league still hates the Raiders and Raider fans still hate the league. That pipe you smokin has you believin you are the only real Raider fan left on the earth. There is still lots of us out here, so can the lectures stop now? Talking about mediocre rosters from the past, what is the value?
Carr was under contract. The Raiders only allowed Carr to speak to the Saints because they thought there was a chance to be compensated. Carr's contract was poorly written and mismanaged from the start.
"if the Raiders could have gotten more for Waller, don't you think they would have taken it? Simple yes or no will do."
Actually, I don't think it's that simple. Again, they set themselves up for failure with Carr, getting zero compensation.
Tweets by Waller's newlywed imply this thing might be personal. Which means they dumped him.
I'd like to think the thing with Waller was about salary (perhaps injury concerns), but the Raiders acquired a mid-grade salary QB and have intentionally stayed on the sideline while expensive free agents are getting signed by other teams. They didn't spend money they had last year, though they needed an O-Line.
It smells a little like personal vendetta with a touch of mismanagement.
Your generalizations about Gruden do not apply to me. Go back and read my posts. I was very critical of Davis giving Gruden a 10-year contract, and critical of Gruden taking four years to show some semblance of winning. Gruden's O-line transformation was mostly about zone blocking, which many of us hate. Mack was the face of the defense.
But I will say this, after 20 years of Raiders failures and, frankly, ineptitudes, I may be overly desensitized by the off-season hype. Because often what's been labeled best for the team has only been worse.
So, if Gruden is now "the good guy" it's only because McZeigler has been that bad.
The bar is low.
We dump Carr and Waller, re-sign guys like Parker, Teamer and Tillery and bring back Facyson, but we let Perryman walk. I'm afraid that won't be good enough.
At your suggestion, I'll keep watching... and hoping for more.
O.K., they kept some good players.
We have a good player in the middle J. Tillery, with some good coaching, might be a pro bowl player.
Teamer o.k. he's our special teams star.
* Funny how the media wants to trash Ferrell. If Reggie or the Pats guys drafted him he'd be this guy that had to deal with a bad roster.
Watch how this guy's stats get better.
* We need a big time DT.
We need speed at RB.
We need a young FS.
We need a good RT.
* How Al could help the Pats' guys?:
#10
28/ we could've gotten a faster RB in the draft or free agency this team is slow!
?
#87
#17
#13
#74
#64
#68
?
?/ Al might sign a vet free agent as his RT to keep Jimmy G. standing up and help the offense.
#2
#98
?/ Al would get a NG type DT but he would start taller, athletic DT that could get to the QB.
he might bring in a vet DT same as above.
?/ Al would bring in a star free agent DE to help Crosby out.
#5
?/ Al usually doesn't draft LBs' very high so he would draft a big MLB but somebody with speed.
?/ Al loves speed and if he could draft a fast OLB that could cover the TE the defense would be better.
R. Yon Sin
?/ Al might look for a fast free agent CB to make keep up with faster WRs'.
?/ Al might look for a top FS in the draft or try to find a good not too expensive vet.
?/ Al might draft a big SS but with speed.
#6
KR- ? no A. Abdullah he's a good RB but Al wouldn't use a power back to return kicks. He might let the coaches decide or pick one of his WRs or DBs' as a KR or draft a guy with speed to return kicks.
PR- H. Renfroe
This is maybe a good picture of what this team would look like if Al was helping the Pats' guys:
Waller would still be here
They might've gotten another QB so Carr might've been traded in the near future so Al would've told the Pats' guys to work with his guy. Stidham might've been able to stay as a back up. But Jimmy G.? I don't think so.
Renfroe wouldn't be on the trading block.
M. Crosby would have some help- Al would bring more talent to the DL.
Al would find defensive stars for the special teams units. When he passed some fans felt he spent too much on STs' but some fans don't understand it can win games and are important too. Some didn't like the fact the S. Lechler and C-Bass were being paid a lot. BTW...he spent on other areas.
Andrew Billings is signing with the Bears. That's a big loss, literally.
Pretty soon we'll be able to make a list of outgoing players versus incoming players and get a more global view of what's happening to the roster. I understand it's way too early to make judgement, but it's starting to look kind of scary. We certainly can't rely on 2nd tier free agents and rookies to improve the defense, can we? Don't we need to sign at least one baller?
Btw, I am just realizing that Jakobi Meyers was the idiot on the Pats who lateralled the ball back to Chandler Jones to win the game for the Raiders. Uh, welcome to the Raiders..., I guess.
Raiders signed Jerry Tillery for $7M. That's exactly $1M per tackle. Isn't that like gov't work. Tillery was brought in to pressure the QB, but in short yardage running situations he was either out of place or got pushed around. With Hawkins and Billings gone, the Raiders will need to sign a savvy vet DT or take another step backwards in the middle of their D-line.
Also, something happened with the Garoppolo signing and, apparently, no explanation was given to media. Weird.
I know we are in wait and see mode, but so far it seems we are witnessing a carryover of the implosion that ended last season.
Raiders have a boatload of draft picks! McKenzie thought he could build a team thru the draft. Look what happened to him.
I have to say this because so much was said about Mariota being the Raiders next QB1. He signed a one-year deal with the Eagles to back up Hurts. That's after starting 13 games and getting benched by the Falcons last year. Mariota is a decent backup, but that's it. If he was a starter in the NFL, he'd be getting signed and paid as a starter. Lots of openings in 2023.
But, hey, kudos to him for finding work and making millions as a backup. I wish I could do what he does.
Jimmy G's presser was cancelled, and rescheduled for today (Friday). No reason was given for the cancellation, and speculation is surrounding his physical, as in he possibly failed his physical. Window shutting on getting a QB for the Raiders, the only good news is Aaron Rodgers has not been traded yet.
Another observation. The Raiders seem to have spent the 2nd most so far in free agency. Do you think we have improved? I don't, I still see a lot of holes on the D-Line and secondary, and now more holes on offense. Just Tired of Losing, Baby
Free agency is currently in the 3rd tier of unsigned QBs, so Jimmy G better work.
Media headline:
Giants Clear $7.86M Of Cap Space By Reworking Darren Waller’s Deal
Clearly, salary cap was not the issue that necessitated Waller being traded.
We can now put an exclamation point after stupid!
Raiders trading their star TE for a 3rd round pick and now needing to sign one, maybe two quality TEs is laughable to anyone but a Raiders fan (and Josh Jacobs!)
Somebody cue the Renfrow trade. Maybe a 5th rounder?
Like I said, at least Gruden got some draft capital for the stars he jettisoned. McZeigler is having tent sale.
Gruden and McDummy are in the same category for me. I was opposed to the Gruden hire when it happened because he is a coach that needs certain players to fit his system, and knew there would be a fire sale of good players.
I was duped by McDummy into thinking he was a coach who builds a system to the strengths of players, but he is not. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. I will not be fooled by this clown. He won't be the Head Coach after next season. My current prediction for the Raiders with their roster as is; 6-11.
Mariota is an electric player, Jimmy G. can be exciting but he isn't like Mariota we could use that back up if that's what you think of him. Even if he isn't an NFL level passer he is electrifying.
The Pats' guys had no idea who they were going to sign as a QB. They've shown inexperience and made decisions almost made for a comedy show and run their front office like Reggie II and Mayock II.
These regimes keep proving Al right.
Mariota would be a bad move? It was never about making Mariota into a great starter it was about trying Al's ideas and getting him to learn and become better and maybe that 1st round talent might show up even if it was never as good as hyped.
You fans, really? the only fan base that has shown this kind of loyalty being conned by a corporation that has hated them for decades still expects them to help the Raiders win.
other Anon!
He its' old man Al Anon!
I notice you or another Anon keeps saying give these guys a chance and defending their moves with Waller and Carr!
You were the one who said that kind of thing was what ruined this team(Al).
So you're saying like R. Moss that Waller quit on the Raiders or was it they just didn't want him? Why would a front office trying to win want to get rid of a guy just because they might not get along?
You play out your contract! or ask for a trade! Remember how some of you got on Al's case about M. Allen, that was wrong- right? he ruined a lot of Marcus' career but Al never just traded away or released guys solely because they had issues with their program or wasn't wanted. If they could help Al win he kept them!
And I guess this team is like Reggie's when he ruined an outstanding roster that went 8-8 knowing he didn't have a plan!
Jimmy G.!? Jacobs winning and that great defense- Really?
You talked about how Al hired bad coaches, wow! You claim you had a playoff ready team and these guys just decided to rebuild? The elite front office guys they didn't know about Carr, Adams, Renfroe and Waller? So, then they must have a draft plan like the '81 49ers or '89 Cowboys and the NFL way system of coaching up average guys should make them a winner this year?
It was Al's fault for a 9 year slump. coach Peyton/ star free agents didn't want to work here, there was no talent, bad coaches and he was stuck in the past! So, what happening with them now!? they have another winning group from a winning program.
I thought with Al gone we were gonna see a winning team? But once again we get bad defense, cheap spending and bad trades, but this time we lose our top two players and refuse to sign star free agents. We refuse get conned and start listening to the hype then are upset when we have a losing season. We keep waiting instead of questioning the Raiders' money system and not asking for changes in ticket prices and their spending on star free agents and the teams' feelings about building a team and how much they are willing to put into and work on finding ways, players and getting NFL people with ideas to win.
Fans have been waiting over 9 years to win and the NFL/ owners have conned them with all kinds of fake news and hype! they really don't know what to do with us. K.C. looks unbeatable now and Denver with our ex-HC(for a few days) looks like a playoff team.
you are stuck in the past man. yesterday is gone, there is no value in trying to debate it. Al was a great owner and then he wasn't. There could be all kinds of reasons for it, but that is what it is man. Raiders were really great and now they aren't, there are all kinds of reasons for that.
Bottom line is, Raiders are my team and have been for a long time, I have never jumped ship but will always hope for the best. Hoped Al could turn it around, but it was obvious he couldn't. So, Al's days should have been done for the good of the team.
The Raiders still have not been a consistently decent team since Al, there are many reasons for that and you could say it is from the mismanagement from the past is still haunting the team today, as a reason. That is how deep the ineptness was and it still is. The new hope came and went, now it's just hoping something clicks, this is what we have all been reduced to. That is a Raider fans reality of today. But go ahead and keep screaming about yesteryear, if that's what floats your boat.
The Al Davis comparisons are hard to understand. It's a bit nonsensical because there is no real basis. It's like predicting the results of a fake fight between Ali and Tyson.
Here's something that should interest all of us. It's firsthand information about Jerry Tillery, whom the Raiders just re-signed.
Jason Reed, LA Chargers News, wrote a scathing article about Jerry Tillery and how foolish the Raiders were to pay him starter money in a new contract. Here are some of the low-lights of the article.
-Jerry Tillery will go down as the worst 1st round pick in Chargers history.
-Tillery "slowly became one of the most despised players on the roster among the fanbase."
-"Raiders re-signing Jerry Tillery is comical for Chargers fans."
-Tillery had 6 QB pressures against his former team, then 3 pressures the rest of the season (in 125 pass-rushing snaps). "And this is a guy who is supposed to be a pass-rusher! This is ignoring the fact that he is horrible against the run."
-Tillery literally cost the Raiders the game against the LA Rams which ultimately killed the team's playoff chances (unsportsmanlike conduct for knocking ball out of Mayfield's hand after Maxx Crosby sacked him).
According to the article, Tillery is toxic.
I posted earlier that Tillery had 7 tackles last year for the Raiders, and the Raiders just agreed to pay him $1.0 million per tackle.
I disagree completely with re-signing Tillery. He's at best a rotational player that the Raiders just paid starter money.
Hankins and Billings out; Tillery in. And the DL they drafted and signed last year was underwhelming at best.
Free agency is in second wave, but some good players are still available. The Raiders could sure use Bobby Wagner. Wagner and Spillane together could upgrade the LB corp which will lose Perryman.
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