Giants Gameday Thread
A new era begins today, let's enjoy the minty fresh feeling and see where it takes us. GO RAIDERS!
posted by Raider Take at 7:23 AM
A new era begins today, let's enjoy the minty fresh feeling and see where it takes us. GO RAIDERS!
posted by Raider Take at 7:23 AM
37 Comments:
McDaniels and Ziegler fooled me. What a huge disappointment and a waste of two years! Apparently, after last week's team meeting which players were allowed to air their grievances, McDaniels was reported to be a "shell of himself on the sideline." You can't micromanage grown men like McDaniels did, particularly, ones with chips on their shoulders... like pro athletes! 10 years to reflect on his HC failure in Denver wasn't enough for McDaniels to turn the corner in his coaching career. He's now a lifetime assistant coach, if that.
To sum up, McDaniels received a huge payday for an epic failure, courtesy of Mark Davis.
Antonio Pierce seems like a cool dude and a straight shooter. He's said to be the opposite of McDaniels. That should be interesting. I look forward to seeing what he can do. This transition has actually breathed some life into the season for me. However, taking over the Raiders is a big hill to climb but, at the same time, there's nowhere to go but up.
Best of luck to Coach Pierce and GO RAIDERS!!
Not sure what I just watched. The first half screamed "in your face Josh McDaneiels."
Giants are limping but the Raiders did what they should do in that situation, dominated.
First time head coach and first-time offensive coordinator schooled Josh McDaniels today, using quick pace offense and dialing up some new plays. How about Aiden O'Connell calling the protections and plays before the snap, reading single coverage on Adams, making tight throws, and Josh Jacobs finding lanes? Defense creating turnovers.
That was much needed.
What a difference a coach makes. I hope these wheels keep turning when we play stronger teams like the Queefs, Doncos, and unCharged. The Raiders shiwed up with a fire I haven't seen in awhile. A fire squelched by McDummy. Just Win, Baby
Perhaps this is a one-off, but players clearly responded. McDaniels was toxic.
Even with 8 sacks and a win, the Raiders demonstrated they still lack talent on defense, and soft zone coverage will not work against other teams, including the Jets next weekend.
Raiders stomped'em in the first half, but kinda coasted in the second half. Gotta win the second half's in the NFL.
But hey, coach Pierce did a great job, and Raiders actually looked like a professional football team on Sunday.
I liked how everyone was involved in the game plan. Touches for Renfroe, Abdulla, Meyers, and others who were forgotten and left out by McDaniels.
I read a report last night that had content containing the meeting with players and coaches where they aired their grievances. McDaniels had Antonio Pierce speak who talked about having a culture that we can win every week, and how that is how it was like on the '07 Giants, especially going into the Super Bowl vs the Patriots. He talked about what was missing with the Raiders was the culture and belief that they could win. The article said that afterwards Josh McDaniels rebuked Pierce for his speech in front of Mark Davis, and how he shouldn't have downgraded the Patriots the way he did. McDaniels made it about himself, and Pierce was making it about the team and culture and winning. Davis made the decision to go with a guy who believed about the team and culture and winning.
I don't know how much of the article is true or not; but the way they played yesterday was a big middle finger to McDaniels and crew. This was the issue with McDaniels as a head coach, he demands his way, and his way only. Even Gronkowski talked about it this last week. The scumbag is gone, the Raiders took what they wanted, when they wanted; and it looks like the Raiders are back to their game. Just Win, Baby
This is what I've been saying since McDaniels true colors started showing. Team is a cooperative thing. Pierce is players' coach and will get the best from his players because of that mindset. How great was Hardegree? The fake run block-turned end-around by Meyers was awesome. And creating protections with Ameer at the LOS was smart. Never saw that from McDaniels. The pass to Tucker was 50 yards in the air. None of this would have happened with McDaniels as HC.
McDaniels acted liked a bad person in Vegas just like Denver. Kudos to Mark for pulling the plug now and not caring about the money
Sandy
How awesome was it to hear Pierce do the "RAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIDEEEEERRRRRRSSSSS!" in his post game locker room speech? How awesome was it to hear the crowd chant, "Thank you, Mark", as MD walked off the field? How awesome was it to see Mark walk off with a swag that he has never done before? It reminded me of Al. I can say I have a lot of my Raiders' pride back after these things. JUST WON, BABY!
Just to be honest here too, I haven't seen the Raiders come out and play with the fire they played with yesterday since 2016 before DC broke his leg. I look at the team's win yesterday, and it is quite obvious that McDaniels has no clue. Everyone says he is an offensive guru, and that may be true, but he lost his ever loving mind as a Head Coach. I think the difference between he and Belichick is that BB built a culture, and everyone knew what was expected of them. At the same time, he gave his coaches the ability to do their job, and defined the parameters of their job. McDaniels had to control every aspect of what was done. He demanded respect without giving it. One article I read said that every Monday they would watch film, and he'd rip the players when film showed mistakes, then rip the position coach, and back to humiliate the player. He put phrases up all over the building, and if you couldn't recite them, he would humiliate you even more. Never built you up, always tore you down; demanded respect, but never gave it. The rumor is also that Dave was unwilling to part with Josh when Mark approached him to do so; so Mark cut him too.
Let's look at the Belichick tree that has operated like this: Matt Nagy, Eric Mangini, Josh McDaniels (twice), Romeo Crennel, Joe Judge, Bill O'Brien (the only one with a winning record of 52-48), Brian Flores, and Brian Daboll. All of this to say that the Patriot way doesn't work without Tom Brady, because Tom was allowed to buck the system a little. Case in point, Belichick's job is on the line this year in New England; even Bob Kraft is tired of his act.
I believe he lost the locker when he benched Carr and eventually Carr left the team.
Another report I saw was even after all of that, Mark Davis wanted Carr back, but McDaniels and Ziegler made it so awkward for Carr that he left. Which would explain why Mark apologized to him. Mark Davis saw how Josh was losing the locker room. He was about to lose Hunter Renfrow to start. Mark Davis killed all trades on the 31st because he was firing both; and did not want to give any of the players up. If Josh and co had stayed, Davante, Josh Jacobs, Hunter Renfrow, and eventually Maxx Crosby would have walked. Night and day difference between yesterday and how they had played all season. The cancer was cut out and let go.
Hardegree play-called circles around McDaniels.
Go back and watch the plays. The one which Meyers goes in motion and hesitates at the line like he's gonna run block, then goes end-around for a big gain. The plays which Ameer tucks behind the O-line for extra pass protection, then breaks open for a reception. The 50-yard bomb to Tucker. The fast tempo offense which kept the Giants off balance.
McDaniels had none of that!
As I said before, McDaniels fooled me. He had a lot of people fooled into thinking he was a good OC. I guess all credit for his prior success goes to Tom Brady. There's no other explanation.
In a way, yesterday's game was a bit of redemption for GM Ziegler. The players he drafted, O'Connell, Tucker, Meyer, seem to have great upside. Tyree Wilson even made some plays.
We would never have known this if McDaniel was allowed to continue on with his narrow minded idea of offense.
Surprising that Ziegler was willing to sacrifice his own job because he believed in Josh McDaniel so much.
Maxx Crosby, Jermaine Elumenor, and Josh Jacobs all talked about how they wanted to give everything for Pierce on Sunday. They didn't want him to take a bullet of embarrassment on the podium. That speaks to how they felt about McDaniels; who would embarrass them in film room, and constantly degrade them. So they wouldn't show up for him and embarrass him behind the podium after the games. He truly couldn't get out of his own way.
McDaniels will have to live with the ultimate embarrassment of his two failed attempts at head coaching. I'm still stunned how bad he was as a play caller. How did the Patriots ever survive this guy. The answer might lie in the Patriots not hiring an OC when McDaniels left, then asking former DC Matt Patricia to call the offense. Apparently, that's how much regard they have for their OC.
Sandy, to repeat what you said, it's fortunate Mark Davis moved as quickly as he did.
Unfortunately, the Raiders lead the NFL in coaching changes since their SB loss. Bad decision-making has become part of Raiders culture. Maybe McDaniels firing will turn the tide. Pierce was impressive in his first game. Is he a one-hit wonder or another Rich Bisaccia?
Jets look beatable, but their defense is probably tougher than the Giants.
The culture shift has already paid dividends:
Raiders practice squad players were on the sideline for the Giants game, rooting their team on. That's a departure from McDaniels.
Players had Monday and Tuesday off. No "teachable moments" in the film room. To that point, Pierce said, "Raiders will look forward, not backward."
Where McDaniels was uptight, Pierce is laid back, and where McDaniels was too laid back, Pierce is intense and motivating.
Pierce is a Raider! Unless he stumbles badly, I'm betting Mark Davis leaves Pierce as HC next year.
The Autumn Wind may be back!
Ghost,
I think Ziegler did way more bad than good. Garapollo was a terrible terrible signing and way overpaid he had no real plan at QB. Carr situation was a debacle, Tyree Wilson does not look like a top 10 pick, the neglect of the offensive line and DT is criminal. Basically zero strategy. Was he rebuilding, trying to win now or somehwere in the middle.
Sandy
Garoppolo wasn't on Ziegler. That was McDaniels. At least it's being presented that way across the media. Also, media are now saying when Tom Brady was not available, the Raiders tried to regroup with Derek Carr. Garoppolo was the Raiders 3rd choice.
Pierce said Wilson is getting better, learning to defend the run and hold the edge. It's a bit early to throw him under the bus. Last regime picked Ferrell with a #4 pick.
On a side note, funny to see Jihad Ward playing such an important role in the Giants defense. Did the Raiders give up too soon?
Several beat writers (Hondo, Moe Moton, Vic Tafur) are all writing that McDaniels had more say than Ziegler. All have written that McDaniels wanted Crappolo, but Ziegler didn't think it was a good idea and wanted to keep Stidham. There are mixed reports on whether or not Ziegler was asked to fire McDaniels. Some report that he was, and Ziegler said no, which led to his firing. Others say no he was never asked because McDaniels was technically over him to get the players McDaniels wanted (similar to Gruden/Mayock dynamic); so Mark Davis fired them both.
Either way, both did not do a lot of favors for the Raiders. Tyree Wilson did have his best game as a pro on Sunday. I hope he continues to improve on that. It is amazing to see guys like Robertson, Hobbs, Moehring, Wilson, Elumenor, Renfrow, Mayes, and others who have "disappeared" under McDaniels; have all of a sudden reappeared. Whatever happened, the wheels on McDaniels bus fell off, and Mark changed the tire. They re-signed Brandon Parker to Practice Squad. To be honest, I hope they bring back Denzelle Good and Darius Philon.
In all of this, I hope Mark Davis has learned a valuable lesson about ownership and becomes more involved with the health and culture of his team. Like McDaniels, I hope Antonio Pierce does well and results in wins for the Raiders. I am withholding my judgment on whether or not he should get the job. I want to see how he does against the Chiefs, Doncos, Dolphins, and the rest of our opponents. If the Raiders come away with a winning record (whether or not we make the playoffs); he should be given the job. If the Raiders come in at .500 or losing record but were competitive, then he should be considered. If the Raiders are not competitive (especially vs the Chiefs, Doncos, Chargers), find a different coach. With the way the Raiders came out Sunday, I think they will be competitive. I am hoping for a winning record here on out.
Wilson will always be compared to Carter. I forgot one of Ziegler's biggest mistakes, Chandler Jones another huge contract for a washed up player. Imagine if they had kept Stidham or better yet traded up for Stroud and best of all signed Lamar and then spent the Garapollo sand Jones money on an o line.
The Raiders gave up too soon on Denico Autry that guy is a stud
Sandy
John Simpson too, he is the starting left guard on Baltimore and doing quite well
Sandy,...I agree that overall, Ziegler did a poor job and deserved to be fired.
I am just saying that some of the players he drafted look a lot better when they are allowed to play, and everyone is included in the game plan.
McDaniels seem to have about 5 plays in his playbook each week. It was maddening to watch him run the same plays over and over, without any good results.
And letting many players just rot away, never being used, or involved. Thankful he is gone. May we never see his likes on the sideline again.
Well said Ghost. It's quite astounding that a guy who's supposed to be a genius with X and O's was so useless. What are your thoughts on quarterback for next year. Let's assume the Raiders don't finish bad enough to draft maye or Williams. Is there anyone else you like in college I know I sound like a broken record but I really think they should have gone after Lamar Jackson two first round picks look cheap compared to what Carolina gave up. Sandy
Who doesn't wish the Raiders had drafted Stroud or Carter (only Carter was available to them), but either of these guys could mean McDaniels would still be in place... and that would be disastrous.
Clearly, Ziegler was signing guys at McDaniels behest. Garoppolo wasn't a coincidence, neither was Hoyer. Also, Ziegler was re-signing key Raiders players only to abandon them for McDaniels sake. Carr! Waller! Renfrow! And Jacobs practically had one foot out the door! The Chandler Jones thing is beyond comprehension. They knew he had issues. Most of the talent they brought in on defense is marginal, at best, and the Raiders will be paying for some of those mistakes for years.
It's tough to recover from coaching turnover. Everyone wants to "do it their way." But it can be streamlined. If Pierce can manage ~.500 the rest of the season, I imagine he'll be given at least another year, along with Kelly. These guys would build on what's here now.
I'm rooting for Pierce to be the Raiders long-term solution. Odds are long, but that's what we've got right now. I like his style and Raider loyalty. And Hardegree is clearly an upgrade at OC.
But let's be honest, bad personnel choices are limited to Ziegler and McDaniels. Draft choices, free agents, trades, mostly bad. Yes, Autry is a baller on the edge. He was jettisoned at the same time as Mack. We didn't need hindsight, that never made sense.
Sorry... "aren't" limited to McZiegler. Bad personnel choices extend well beyond the McZiegler regime.
Maybe Champ Kelly can find a pocket of success. He's busy making in-season moves... which are typically depth oriented.
Sandy,...Beyond Caleb Williams, and Derek Maye, I don't know enough about the college Qb situation. Raiders best bet is that O'Connell plays well enough to be the guy next season.
O'Connell probably won't be as good as a Mahomes, Burrows, or Lawrence, but hopefully he can be as good as a Carr, Prescot, or Stroud. 2nd tier guys.
Raiders look like they will be picking outside the top 10 in draft, so it's really a crap shoot for a Qb at that point anyway.
Besides, Raiders still need a lot on defense. More cover corners, better DT's, better safety's and better LB's.
A QB doesn't need to be "flashy" like Mahomes, Burrows, etc; he needs to be a leader, and one that does his job well, with few mistakes. I think the Raiders need to get back to simple offense; a strong running game with Jacobs and co; and spread the field with long bombs and slants to keep the defense from stacking the box. Don't take what the defense gives, take what you want. A strong running game will help young QBs.
What makes Mahomes and company of other QB's successful is they are involved in creating plays, and the game plan; something that Todd Downing, Gruden, and McIdiot took away; but that Antonio Pierce, Bo, and Patrick Graham have brought back; and not just with the QB, but with key players and captains. To hear Renfrow say it was refreshing to help organize the game plan against the Giants made my day; he also said they still had to go perform it; but it rejuvenated the team. To see O'Connell change plays at the LoS before the snap and call audibles was another good thing to see, that McIdiot took away. This is why I think Pierce is going to be successful, and maybe our next HC. Again, I want to see how they do against division rivals, the Dolphins, and a few teams with winning records.
We definitely need DT help (still) and better play from CB positions. If I am Champ Kelley, I'm on the phone to bring back Darius Philon, who was a beast before he got injured, and is now healthy. I was also excited to see the fire in Malcom Koonce, and how he got a lot of snaps this last week. I think he is going to be awesome if he gets consistent playing time. I was big on him when he entered the draft, and uber excited when we got him. Again, we haven't seen fire like this in the Raiders since 2016. I hope it continues to burn bright. Just Win, Baby!
Nate I have to disagree with you. The best quarterbacks in the NFL all have one thing in common the ability to improvise off structure and create plays with Dynamic athleticism. I think O'Connell's ceiling is a really good backup he's not a franchise quarterback in fact he looks like a relic of what football was in the '90s when you could have a strong running game and a serviceable quarterback and win in the playoffs. That's no longer the case. The best quarterbacks Mahomes Josh Allen Jalen hurts Lamar Jackson all have Elite athleticism. That's what the game requires today. Sandy
Carr had some improv skills, but that got him released from a rigid McDaniels system.
O'Connell looks like a legit backup, but Raiders probably need a plan for franchise QB. I wouldn't count out a top-10 pick. The season isn't over yet. They still need to play KC 2x, Miami, LAC, etc.
Stroud may be 2nd level now, but that might change quickly.
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Al's system. Huh?
Please tell me, what is "Al's system" and how did that work to benefit the Raiders between 2003 and 2011?
I'm all ears.
Raiders have done nothing for 20 years. ZERO playoff wins! The best they gave us was 2016 with Del Rio at HC Bill Musgrave at OC and Derek Carr at QB. I think Ken Norton Jr was DC. Collectively, 2016 was the best group in 20 years, and it's not even close, IMO.
When Bisaccia had his miracle run, it was Bisaccia as interim HC, Greg Olsen as OC, Gus Brady as DC and Derek Carr at QB. Ok, that run was impressive but, regretfully, Davis went another direction and hired McDaniels/Ziegler.
Exit McDaniels and Ziegler. Good riddance!
But here we are with an interim battery of coaches and QB and maybe as good a battery as we've had. That's a sad truth, but it might be true.
HC Pierce is a leader for sure. Hardegree out play-called McDaniels by a lot. And O'Connell has a calmness and confidence that's hard to explain. And I can say this with confidence, between McDaniels and Graham, Graham made adjustments while McDaniels did not, or at least adjustments that worked.
I'm not saying we're going to the SB, or even the playoffs, but this battery looks as good as we've had since Biasscia and the aforementioned 2016 group, and long before (since 2003).
I'm rooting for them to surpass "interim" designation. To be sure, Mark Davis will not allow another Rich Bissacia moment escape him. AP will be hired HC for 2024 if he can demonstrate improvement over McDaniels. Let's be honest, that's not a high bar.
Gus Bradley at DC, not Brady. It helps to proof before post.
NY you would never even heard of Bo Hardegree until last weekend Antonio Pierce definitely injected some energy but I think the Raiders can do better over the long term with someone else. O'connell will never be good enough to take the Raiders to the SB. Sandy
I'm cautiously optimistic.
What strikes me is the contrast between McDaniels and Pierce/Hardegree approaches. On one hand, McDaniels is a system guy who micromanages. Raiders were asked to play "perfect" in order to succeed. That's ridiculous on its face, and Pierce has implied as much.
Pierce and Hardegree seem way more laid back but professional nonetheless. I prefer coaching to player strengths. Coaching players into a system, to me, is fitting a square peg into a round hole.
The situation we're in now reminds me of Bisaccia/Olsen, but also Bill Musgrave, who let Derek Carr do his thing. Players have input and get to collaborate with coaches. O'Connell was calling protections and audibles at the LOS and looked like a seasoned pro.
I would end by saying, the grass is always greener.... Raiders have been searching for that elusive coach/QB combination for a long time. At this point, I'd be happier to catch lightning in a bottle. It's our best chance to hit 2024 running.
AP! AP! AP!
Seasoned pro? His qbr is 77
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