Jets Gamenight Thread
Do we have the beginnings of a new era in the works? Possibly. A should-win against the lowly Jets is a perfect litmus test. GO RAIDERS!
posted by Raider Take at 5:22 PM
Do we have the beginnings of a new era in the works? Possibly. A should-win against the lowly Jets is a perfect litmus test. GO RAIDERS!
posted by Raider Take at 5:22 PM
25 Comments:
Geez! It wasn't pretty but the team that usually finds a way to lose found a way to win.
We don't have to guess how good the Jets defense is. The game came down to a few plays and somehow the Raiders persevered. Angry runs by Jacobs, the TD pass O'Connell to Mayer, the INT by Spillane, and a few clever plays in between to keep drives alive.
The Jets' D-line gets push up the middle that Raiders fans can only dream about for their team. The Jets beat the Bills and Eagles with that defense.
This is one of those games which the highlights last about 10 seconds. It definitely wasn't sexy but it's a win nonetheless.
And for folks who were bashing Robert Spillane earlier in the season, he's turned out to be a baller. Spillane and Jacobs were named by Pierce as the two players he would build a team around. Spillane lived up to that moniker with his game-saving INT.
Nice win! Enjoy it! Have a cigar!
Raiders do not win this game with McDaniels, in fact, I dare say the Raiders wouldn't have won another game with that crew. They dug in deep, this was a battle of the trenches; and the Raiders, like NY said, who usually find a way to lose this game, dug in deep and found a way to overcome. They overcame mistakes, they overcame the offense stalling out a few times in key moments, the defense picked off the ball late in the game, and the offense stalled out, but the defense came back and shut the door. This is a different team.
I said it last week, and I will say it here, Pierce has a fire in the Raiders that hasn't been seen since 2016 before Carr was injured. This was a HUGE victory tonight! Again, not a pretty win, but a "W" is a "W" and not all wins are going to be pretty.
Say what you want about Zach Wilson, he is not a bad QB, and he is better than Jimmy G. If they can get him some good QB help, he will be alright. The Jets were tougher than I thought they'd be. I knew they had a strong defense, but their running game was fierce and that set up Wilson pretty good. The Jets got away from that late in the game, where the Raiders relied on it, even against that run stuff defense. The Jets have similar problems that has haunted the Raiders for a few years too, Red Zone inefficiency. That is what helped us last night.
On another note, Pierce and Mark Davis have to send the League videos of Maxx being held, and start pressuring for calls to be made. Some of those holds were blatantly ridiculous for them not to be called. He could have had 3 more sacks last night. The last play of the game, ok, I get, let them play; but he was all but tackled and still got to Wilson, and almost had him. Josh Jacobs made it known earlier this year that he was not coming back to the Raiders next year; and last night he admitted that with Pierce, he is thinking about returning. Again, I love what Pierce is bringing to the table; and I think this is the type of coaching the Raiders have needed for a long time. I'd like to see how we do against the Division Rivals, we still have 2 games against the Chefs; but if those games are as competitive as what we just saw, regardless of the outcome, he should be hired. JUST WON, BABY!
A decent performance consiering Kolton was out. THe offense has to stop turning the ball over. Koonce had decent pressure, Wilson useless as always. In a game like that I would have liked to see Refrow get some more targets. Hopefully they can win one of the next two games.
Sandy
Zach Wilson has his moments, especially, running out of trouble, but he also misses passes that he should make. Jets would be a top contender with Aaron Rodgers. if they can hold on until December and Rodgers returns, they could be in the mix. Jets defense is light years ahead of the Raiders.
With that said, I am very concerned the Raiders defense will once again faulter as soon as they play another mid- to upper-tier QB. The Raiders secondary is weak, and Patrick Graham's soft zone coverage is very suspect.
Notice last night after taking a 7-pt lead, the Raiders backpedaled into softer coverage and Wilson immediately had more success. For some reason, Graham doesn't see or get that. The Raiders defense is only good (decent) when they tighten the screws with more press coverage and blitzing. 3 seconds is a long time for any NFL QB against soft zone defense.
NY with the exception of Brian Flores on Minnesota very few teams play that type of defense. It is too dangerous. Especially on a team like the Raiders with their lack of top press corners. The key to a good defense is too get home with the front 4 anything else is gambling.
I think the offense needs to get their act together to beat the Chiefs or the Dolphins, 25 points is a minimum.
Sandy
Sandy, for a guy who's been so tough on Raiders personnel choices and D-line in particular, you of all people know the Raiders are not capable of "getting home" with their front 4.
I'm not saying press and blitz every down. That would be certain doom. But why are safeties so deep and why are CBs backpedaling against Zach friggin' Wilson? We've been witness to the same failures for a long time, through several DCs. When the Raiders relax their defense, teams take advantage underneath. If I can see it and Cris Collinsworth can call it out in real time, why can't Patrick Graham and AP see it?
Raiders are already 11-pt dogs against the Dolphins. Consensus is it's a blowout in the making. Can't we just play the Giants again!
NY, Too bad we are not in the the NFC South lol. At least your Raiders swept your home city. The secondary is the weakes part of the D. And believe me I know the front 4 can not provide consisten pressure. The needs on D are clear a CB and DT. BOth of which were available in the draft Carter and Gonzalez. Next drft hopefully they get them. Per your earlier post Spillane looks good and seems to be an awesome leader.
Sandy
To be clear, Marcus Peters' lack of tackling is our weakest link in the secondary. Dude gave up 3 big pass plays because he plays not to get hurt, and refuses to tackle anyone. Time to bench him, and get someone else. Losing Jakorian Bennett and Amik Robertson last night also hurt; let's hope both are cleared to come back this weekend. Hobbs is a stud, and tore it up last night in coverage.
NY, I agree, we got to rid ourselves of the "Prevent-You-From-Winning" defense. At the end of games, we cannot go into soft coverages; especially against the Dolphins and Chiefs. Play tight man at the scrimmage, and knock the WR's off their routes.
Nate,
Actually Peter is the highest rated corner on the team by far, his tackling aside. Bennett came back into the game later Robinson did not. I think Hobbs is probably the only DB we have capable of playing bump and run/press coverage.
Sandy
NY you will be pleased to know that Jerry Tillery had the highest grade on PFF of any Raider player 91. Sandy
I am pleased, but I'm also floored by that. The best play Tillery made was him getting held on a run that was called back. He did a nice acting job on that one.
Tillery and Nichols are both huge disappointments. Did you see the play which Nichols ran right past Breece Hall in the flat and Hall ran for a big gain? I've seen the play a few times and I can't figure out who Nichols thought his was defending when he ran past the Jets most dangerous player as the ball was being thrown to him. Tillery was signed to provide more pass run up the middle. Crosby has 9.5 sacks, and nobody else on the Raiders has more than two. Jenkins and Butler are the only ones filling their roles. Jenkins is a solid run-defender and Butler provides a decent push in the middle.
Tyree Wilson doesn't look like he's gonna make it. He's big but not strong enough to push a pro LT out of his way, and he's certainly not quick enough get around. Coaches defend him by saying he's getting better "playing the run."
We will see over the remainder of the season. My fear with Pierce is that he's too buddy buddy with players and it will be tough for him to make the right choices, which essentially is to replace the entire D-line except for Crosby.
Back to the point, I still don't believe Tillery is serviceable.
My take on Peters is that he's slowed down a lot with age and tries to compensate by playing way too far off the WR. He takes risks looking for a big play but he doesn't have the chops he once had, not even close.
This is interesting. Turns out, Aiden O'Connell's game against the Jets stacks up well with top QBs in the league who have played the Jets this year. Box stats comparisons are in this article.
https://www.raidersbeat.com/whoa-look-how-aidan-oconnells-box-score-against-the-jets-compared-to-allen-mahomes-hurts-and-herbert/
Random side note, it was weird to see Latavius Murray score for the Bills last night, seems so long ago that we was a Raider, like he should have grandchildren by now.
Right! Murray has to be getting long in the tooth by now. Also weird to see the Broncos win. Didn't the Bills thrash the Raiders? Note to AP when the Raiders/Broncos rematch.
Good win against the Jets. Jets are a half & half team, very good D, very bad O.
But can the Raiders do anything against a good Miami team on the road ? Well see.
Interesting to see Sean Payton already turning the Donks around in his year one as HC. Wins over the Chiefs, and road win vs Bills are eye openers.
Raiders fans have been conditioned to expect, and wait for long turn arounds that never seem to come. Dennis Allen had team going nowhere. JDR had a playoff appearance then fizzled. Gruden seemed on right track by year four, but league pulled the plug. Bissacia had success but wasn't sexy enough. McDaniels was a total fiasco.
Does Sean Payton really have that much more to work with than the Raiders have ?
The Miami game is the type of game AP has to show the Raiders can compete, or even win.
AP has to show he too can engineer a fast turn around, and not just hope of another long rebuild that always ends in disaster.
If history tells us anything, there's no turning the Raiders around, certainly not expeditiously. After 10-year contract with Gruden and 5-year deal with McDaniels, setting anything close to a Sean Payton-esk expectation for AP seems unfair and unrealistic.
Let's face it, the Raiders had their run in the 70s and 80s. After that, Gruden 1 was their best chance to re-establish themselves and Al blew that up.
Since their last SB win, the Raiders have had 18 head coaches. They lead the league in futility.
NYR...everything you say is true, but you make it sound like Raiders are cursed.
Sean Payton didn't have a first round pick. It doesn't look like he drafted anyone that outstanding. Russell Wilson was as bad as Jimmy G,(this year), the last 2 seasons. He has taken what he had, and has won some impressive victories. This after Donks gave up 70 points to the Fish.
So as a Raiders fan, sign me up for one of these fast turn arounds. This Miami game is going to show a lot more truth about AP's Raiders than the two home games against weak opponents.
IDK, a strong case can be made for a curse. The curse of Al, the curse of the NFL, the curse of Mike Shanahan, the curse of Lane Kiffin. The curse of Antonio Brown! Name your favorite curse. Even the Red Sox were able to singularly identify their curse. The Raiders have a seemingly endless stream of bad luck.
Actually, I find a curse more plausible than some of the excuses I've heard.
In terms of a fast turnaround, the Raiders don't have the luxury of hiring Sean Payton. Perhaps Jim Harbaugh could give it a legit try but I doubt Mark Davis is anxious to write that check while the ink is drying on McDaniels' and Zieglers' checks. And does Davis still owe Jon Gruden? Sure, not hiring Harbaugh could be penny wise and pound foolish, but I can't say that I'd blame Davis.
Not sure where AP will take us, but I've quickly become a fan. I like his all-in yet simplistic approach. And he's truly a Raider. Who would have thought? He should have played for the Raiders during his career.
IMO, the best chance the Raiders have for quick success is if AP is up for the job and can build on what's in place. Any other HC worth their salt will want to blow it up again. The mere thought of that is depressing.
I am rooting for AP to be sure. But I want to see something positive sooner rather than later.
Wins against the Giants and their 3rd string Qb, and Jets and their high pick flop Qb are nice, but I want more.
I want to see something positive in this Miami game. On road, heavy underdog, everyone expecting a big blowout by the fish. lets shock the world. Show me this turn around will be fast, and not the usual forever plan.
Games coming up vs the Chiefs,(twice), Chargers,...show me something. Show it now. Stop telling fans to wait five years.
Payton/Donks coulda gave up after 70 point loss. Coulda said, hey we're no good, but wait til next year. But no, the turn around has already begun. And with same roster that lost by 70 !!
So Raiders can get blown out on Sunday, and be full of the same excuses. Or they can send message to league that the era of pushover Raiders has finally ended. The ship is being turned around, and it's full steam ahead.
Yes, Raiders have faced two bottom tier offenses in a row and now face a top tier offense.
I believe Pierce can bring out the best in the Raiders. Unfortunately, their best is probably not good enough to beat the Dolphins blindfolded. Miami HC Mike McDaniel has done an amazing job. They will test the Raiders weak backfield, which almost certainly will play Graham's soft zone coverage until they realize (again!) that won't work and be forced to tighten their coverage. By then it's too late against a team like Miami.
Under "what-if" this is a game that still having Carr and Ruggs would have given the Raiders a chance. O'Connell to Tucker?
Sure, anything can happen in a game, which has pretty much been our only hope for the past 20 years.
If you want to see something promising this year, IMO, the Raiders have a better chance to possibly split games with the Chiefs. But O'Connell will need to take the next step to make that happen.
I will say this, the Raiders are more fun to watch with Pierce and O'Connell than they were with McDaniels and Garoppolo. And it's not even close.
P.S. Bill Belichick is rumored to be looking for a new team. Please, NOT the Raiders! He had his day, but it's become clear that every coach ever associated with Tom Brady has proven to be overrated. Since Brady's departure, the Patriots have absolutely jumped the shark... and they're still getting worse.
NY, I feel that way about Belichick too; but I also feel the same way with Harbaugh. I don't want guys coming in with their idea, blow up the roster, and start over. I want someone familiar with the team that is going to light a fire and bring success. This is why I'm excited about AP. Like you, I am also wanting to see how we fair against the Dolphins, Chiefs (twice), Chargers, and Doncos.
Not looking for anything, but being competitive enough to get a "W" and not blown out and embarrassed. I think we will be, and I think AP will earn the HC spot. I have heard people complain that he is not a traditional Head Coach type, but neither was John Madden, Tom Flores, or Art Shell (the first time round). I'm tired of "traditional Head Coach" types, they have done nothing for us. AP is letting the players help game plan and scheme, and I think this is what is helping the Raiders be successful. Keep it going, get the wheels turning, light the fire, and Just Win, Baby!
Hey all, I am headed out on a cruise this week with my family for Thanksgiving. I will not be able to watch the game tomorrow, so I am hoping for the best these next 2 weeks to come out with a W.
Either way, I just wanted to wish everyone a happy and wonderful Thanksgiving. Hope and pray you and your family have been blessed this last year. There is so much in the world to be thankful for. Cheer! JUST WIN, BABY!
Living large, Nate. Have a great time! Hope you get to read about two big wins when you return.
USC lost 5 of its last 6 games? 7-5 on the season! That merks up the waters in the Caleb Williams sweepstakes. Williams is a freak talent but he's young and will need coaching to get him over the hump once he reaches the NFL. If history tells us anything, Raiders are incapable of that. The modern Raiders have a way of bringing out the worst in players and coaches. Let's not kid ourselves, that has to be factored in. Maybe AP and Bo Hardegree will change that.
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