The End Is The Beginning
Well, the McDaniels / Ziegler "era" is over, like a runaway train that jumped the tracks early and went up in flames.
Kudos to Mark Davis for pulling the plug early despite the cost.
However, this just sets us up for more folly from Mark Davis unless he FINALLY gets his shit together. His grace period as owner has long expired. He owns ALL of this: the poor results, the coaching and GM carousel, the awful drafting, the perennial chaos. All of it.
Say it out loud: The owner's last two head coaching hires were Jon Gruden on a TEN year contract and Josh McDaniels. He gave Gruden the power to bring in a TV analyst as a puppet GM, and Ziegler hasn't been any better at drafting.
First order of business: Stop the nostalgia! All of it. Gruden was nostalgia. The Raiders have been obsessed with the Patriots going back to Al Davis, which is why we ended up with McDaniels and Ziegler. Reggie McKenzie, another nostalgia pick.
Stop looking into the rear-view mirror and start looking through the windshield.
Copy and paste this list of Raiders head coaches and work your way backwards over the past 15 years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Las_Vegas_Raiders_head_coaches
Look at that list! Makes me want to wash my eyes out with Comet.
Mark Davis needs to get smarter, fast, like right now. Do better, pick the right GM and coach, have a vision, create an identity, build a culture and execute and stop the chaos.
Anything less will be just more of the same.
posted by Raider Take at 8:11 AM
35 Comments:
McDaniels was on a six-year contract with Davis. Between McDaniels and Gruden, that's 16 years commitment to two head coaches, albeit overlapping, that lasted about six years with a combined record of 31-47. And here we are back at rock bottom.
There's incredible irony with Mark Davis only a couple weeks removed from telling a Raiders fan to "smarten up" when that fan shouted Davis should fire his head coach.
Turns out, Davis was the one who smartened up, at least in this moment. We still need to see his next move which, if anything like his past moves could be another headache in waiting.
RT, we've been here a long time (and thank you for that!) but during that time we've gone from clown car games to clown car seasons to clown car organization.
What a ride!
Yeah, it's been a journey. Never boring I guess. Appreciate you and all of the old-timers who keep this convo going even during the darkest of days.
Turmoil has followed the Raiders like flies on shit. Could it be the curse of Al? Al let Marcus Allen rot on the bench, and he traded Gruden to the Bucs despite their peaking abilities and contributions to the Raiders at those moments in time.
I don't think bringing back McKenzie would be a "nostalgic" pick, look at what he is doing in Miami. Could have been us, and should have been us. I liked the direction he was going with the Raiders, the problem is Gruden should have never been hired. We wouldn't be in this mess right now. Sure, Del Rio ran his course; but McKenzie should have stayed.
Here is what I would like to see:
GM: Reggie McKenzie
HC: I have 3 that have to be priority. In order for me: Frank Smith (OC, Miami) who has huge ties to the Raiders; Ben Johnson (OC, Lions), or Mike MacDonald (DC, Ravens). The list ends here, but these candidates have to understand they will focus on HC, and not be primary play caller.
OC: Hank Fraley (O-Line Coach, Lions) or Joe Brady (QB Coach, Bills)
DC: Keep Graham
Build to the strengths of the Roster, not a scheme, and then continue to build a strong roster. This is how it turns around.
Geez! For me, Partick Graham cannot exit the building fast enough.
Every team the Raiders play seem to demonstrate more aggressive and more effective defense, and I think guys like Maxx Crosby know it. Sure, when the game is on the line, Graham will sometimes get more aggressive, but then goes right back to his default.
I believe Antonio Pierce comes from a different cut of cloth. However, past Giants great defenses had more than adequate pass rush to make the rest of the defense work. Clearly, that's something the Raiders lack.
Looks like Lombardi was fired too, and Aiden O'Connell is the Raiders new starting QB. With Pierce less than a day on the job, those decisions likely come from upstairs.
Graham should be next, or at least told to "Smarten Up!"
That seems to be the new theme of the Raiders. No more "commitment to excellent" "Just win, baby" or "pride and poise." The new mantra is "Smarten up!"
Smarten Up!
McDaniels was a piece of shit and I am glad he is gone. Read Vic Tafur's article in the Athletic today, the players hated him. Sadly eough I think Ziegler might have been worse than McDaniels. Here is his hit list
1) Give Carr extension then bench him and see him leave for no compensation
2) Sign Jones to 50 million contract including a restructuring which leaves like 25 million in dead cap the next two years
3) Sign Renfrow to extension then dont play him
4) Sing Waller to extension then trade him
5) Its still early but his drafts look like shit not one stand pout player as of now
6) Cut heart and sould players like Perryman and bring in a bunch of Patriot losers.
7) Have basically no plan to get better are the Raiders rebuilding treading water, trying to win which one
8) Letting Stidham go, nto drafting a top qb and then signing Garapollo who failed a physical. Drafting a guy who had a broken foot and sucks ---Wislon
I thank god Mark got rid of them and realize these two fools had no clue.
Nate, I like Mike McDonald but prefer someone with real gravitis like Harbaugh or David Shaw or Dieon and his son to play QB
Sandy
These guys all look like a shiny new car before they implode with the Raiders, or any other team for that matter. I hope Davis has learned to avoid micromanagers. Players will walk on hot coals for a coach they like and respect. That's why (and how) the Raiders rallied behind Bisaccia to make the playoffs two years ago.
Nate75...If you asked me right now I'd say Patrick Graham should go,(222 yrds rushing by Lions Monday night).
But hey, it's a fresh start for everybody. Pat Graham, Tyree Wilson, Josh Jacobs, O'Connell, all get to show if they have any ability at all.
Sandy...I agree that Zielger sucked, but, I do think that TE from ND, Meyer has a chance to be really good if any body will throw him the ball.
I agree. Meyer looks like a potential baller. He just needs someone to throw him the ball. Kelce and the Chiefs know exactly how it works. Kelce chips the edge (Crosby) at the line and throws over the edge defenders head as he's released toward the QB. Works every time!
Unfortunately, Ziegler had about the same success rate as Mayock/Gruden. Let's just say, it wasn't a strong point for either regime. Hopefully, that will change!
IMO, we're looking at a top-5 draft pick. Which means top 2-3 QB. That might be doable.
Ghost who do you want as next coach? My votes stated above in previous post
Say what you want about Mark and the many mistakes he has made he does deserve some shade but he was smart enough to pull the trigger now rther than wait for that he deserves credit and confirms how badly he wants to win.
Sandy
That's an interesting viewpoint because it was Davis who keeps getting us into this mess. That said, I agree sooner is better than later. I'm actually charged to see what a McDaniels-less Raiders team looks like. I imagine players will be charged up too.
On a side note, I was planning to go to Vegas and see the Giants game but it didn't work out. Thankfully! But expect plenty of Giants fans to be there.
Bottom line, McDaniels is not a good coach. His micromanaging method sucks, and it's kind of the opposite of what was promised... you know, coach to the strengths of your players. Also, for me, I got sick of the cliche-speak, like "complementary football." What the hell does that really mean, and can it be taught and implemented? Sounds like bullshit.
Interesting story. On NFL Network David Carr told a story of Pierce scolding him for celebrating a TD against the Raiders, telling Carr not to disrespect the Raiders because that's his team. Apparently, he grew up in Compton as a Raiders fan.
Pierce is a player, so he's probably a player's coach. Will he be the next Rich Bisaccia? I don't know what kind of coach Pierce is, but it's out with the micromanager and in with the player. Players should be more involved. Co-ops tend to be more successful because everyone has a stake. It's not one person making all the decisions.
My point with Grqham is overall the defense is playing better, qnd that counts for something. The Lions stats are padded because the Raiders O was consistently 3 and out, punt, pick, etc. Offense could not sustain a drive, so Lions took advantage and ran the defense down, they knew Crapollo wasnt going to complete passes.
Let's all acknowledge McDaniels greatest sin. Not respecting the history of the Raiders and destroying the culture in 18 months. Part of why we're all Raider fans is there not just another commodity team it's the history the slogans and style of play now some of that might have suffered over the years of losing but success of the Raiders lies and embracing that and getting back to it. The one year of success Jack Del Rio had that was the theme. Sandy
The best thing about this is that it's costing Mark Davis MILLIONS of dollars. He can't keep this up, it's the ultimate incentive to get his act together and do better. I never liked this whole Tom Brady connection, but one thing Tom Brady is not is half-assed, winging it, unorganized, incompetent, etc. Maybe he can help save Davis from himself.
$100 million cost to Davis is the estimate by commentators on NFL Network for contract guarantees to McDaniels, Zeigler and Garoppolo, whom they believe will be given the Derek Carr treatment due to injury guarantees.
Unfortunately for us, access to money won't be the reason Davis gets it right, now or in the future. I agree, Tom Brady may be an asset in the process.
First up, Antonio Pierce. This is his audition. Head Coach job is his to lose. Same with Champ Kelly. There's a lot to like about both these guys. I'm a little energized by these selections. Let's see how long that lasts.
The only answer to the Raiders mess is Jim Harbaugh. He has been a winner every place he has gone they need to hire the best and that is him. Stanford 49ers Michigan every place he turned around the program and and won. Why bother hiring a coordinator who has never been a head coach, or some college coach who has never coached in the pros the hit ratio on one of those types being successful is below 25%. It's time to stop screwing around and hire a sure thing that's Jim Harbaugh. Sandy
Sandy...what do you make of these sign stealing accusations against Michigan ? No doubt Jim Harbough is a proven winner at college and pro level.
But, if true, stealing signs to beat the likes of Central Michigan, I don't know why. And he would have had to know about it.
Plus, don't you think Harbough is going to want a long term deal from Raiders ? He see's Gruden w/10 yrs, and McDaniels w/6 yrs. How many yrs will Harbough require ?
What if Antonio Pierce does a really good job. Maybe Raiders just keep him and not make the Bisaccia mistake again.
Good morning Ghost. For sure Harbaugh knew about the signs stealing and I assume Goodell given his love for the Raiders will mirror any punishment the NCAA passes down in terms of suspension. I'm happy to give him as long a contract he needs there's no salary cap for coaches and Mark can afford it. Antonio Pierce check out his time at Arizona State it was a mess and he had a number of recruiting violations. I hope he does well but being honest he's not in the same league as Harbaugh. Sandy
Harbough potentially faces suspension if he enters the NFL. That could be a nonstarter.
With nine games left, shouldn't we see what chops Antonio Pierce brings before we dial up anyone else? Pierce's blue collar work ethic may not suit LV but it might suit the Raiders. Look what Brad Holmes and Dan Campbell are doing in Detroit. You can bet Campbell doesn't know football like McDaniels. But he's a leader of men, which McDaniels clearly is not. Lions have a strong roster and seem to be on fire so far this season.
Davis made this point about Pierce. He will oversee the team more broadly and allow his coordinators to call plays. That's what Bisaccia did.
If history tells us anything, we've seen Raiders head coaches over and over fail trying to call their own plays. They all had their own set of challenges but Kiffin, Cable, Jackson, Gruden, McDaniels, etc.
Pierce looks to bring a whole different approach.
The Raiders are going to have to draft a quarterback I don't want I former linebacker mentoring a rookie quarterback I want a quarterback whisper a former NFL quarterback mentoring that rookie his name is Jim Harbaugh. I was beating the drum for Harbaugh after Gruden was fired I am doing so again he's the least risk option the Raiders cannot take a risk on the next coach Sandy
Harbaugh is a break-the-bank choice that Davis may not prefer after dropping $100 million to rid himself of the last regime. Gruden was cited as another option, but I can't imagine Davis was completely satisfied with the slow walk that regime was undertaking.
This thing will have to play itself out. I have no favorites. But I agree with others who believe it's time to move on from the Raiders' modus operandi which inevitably lead us back to more failure.
Time to "smarten up."
That's my new theme for the Raiders, courtesy of Mark Davis.
Just listened to Champ Kelly Antonio Pierce presser. They sound great and AP is a badass, but it's possible they're over their head. That said, I like that there's a collaborative theme with the players about their message and the "keeping it raw" and "transparent" model they want to bring. AP wants to match Crosby's energy. Should be interesting to see.
Here's one scouting report on Jim Harbaugh:
Harbaugh is quirky; he wears on the people he works with everywhere he goes and is amid a major cheating scandal. Because of his reputation, the NFL world continually rejects him, and this time around, the league may help teams who don't want him by putting some ban or suspension as they did with Jim Tressel. No doubt Harbaugh is a winner, but there is also no doubt that Mark Davis wants stability, and Jim Harbaugh is not a long-term option.
Unlike his brother, Harbaugh when he gets bored with yhr team checks out. He did this with 9ers, especially after losing to his brother. When he starts winning, and gets back on top, he struggles maintaining that winning attitude. He is just now on the rihht track with Michigan, only to have this scandal. Seems like it is always something. After Gruden and JMD, not sure Harbaugh is the right coach. Maybe he was 5 to 10 years ago, but we missed that opportunity.
We've had a dozen of these conversations. retread or upstart coaching search? Both represent risk, much like McDaniels was a risk.
Nate and New York that's nitpicking at its worst. Look at the guys record everywhere he's been (san diego, stanford, niners, Michigan) he's a proven brilliant coach and winner. Do you guys really want to roll the dice on someone on proven no thanks. Not to mention he's a Raider and that means something. Sandy
from Al Anon!,
Lets bring back some of Al's coaches!
Jim Harbaugh was an Al coach for 2 yeats
I stated above that I have no dog in this fight. I'm at a complete loss to even offer a suggestion after witnessing recent failures. I will say this, and I'm not directing it to Harbaugh... more to the comment about bringing back "Al's coaches."
Are we so removed from past failures of the prior era that we actually would invite the prospect to it over again? Quite possibly, this is why the Raiders have become such losers.
If we knew anything about Al Davis, he hired coaches he could control. They were low pay scale "yes-men" who did not have the chops to coach on their own. But by all means, let's bring some back. Or we can let Al RIP and not invoke more failure to his legacy.
I would hardly consider Harbaugh a Yes Man LOL. Mark has made a lot of mistakes but I'm going to give him credit for getting rid of McDaniels as soon as he did I'm glad he realized it was a mistake and it shows that he is committed to winning. Sandy
I said the comment was not directed at Harbaugh. But it would be a far reach to hire a coach facing suspension out of the gate.
I will start the Harbaugh regime with six games of suspension if necessary no big deal in the grand scheme of things. Sandy
I appreciate your confidence but after witnessing the past 20+ years, I don't share it. And that's not limited to Harbaugh, it's anybody who might put on a Raiders headset. There's something in the water preventing this team from getting out of neutral.
IMO, good or bad, Harbaugh represents another HC who would likely demand a Brink's truck of money and complete control of football operations. Leaving one guy in charge of everything has not worked well for the Raiders.
I'm going to start my armchair hiring process by watching what Antonio Pierce can do. But I certainly hope Mark Davis undertakes a thorough interview process that involves knowledgeable folks, perhaps even like Tom Brady, before coming to any decision.
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