Vikings Gameday Thread
It’s safe to say that the Raiders slim playoff hopes hang in the balance today. Might as well win and keep the dream alive. Go Raiders!
posted by Raider Take at 1:24 PM
It’s safe to say that the Raiders slim playoff hopes hang in the balance today. Might as well win and keep the dream alive. Go Raiders!
posted by Raider Take at 1:24 PM
37 Comments:
Not sure the Raiders can score today. Pretty remarkable for a team with Josh Jacobs, Davante Adams and Jakobi Meyers.
Crosby is injured but has 2 sacks. Generational talent!
Al's All-Stars vs. Vikings' legends
F. Tarkanton
A. Petersen
C. Foreman
S. Jordan
R. Moss A. Carter
A. Rashad A. Theiman
R. Yary
R. McDaniel
M. Tinglehoff
E. White
G. Zimmerman
G. Anderson (kicker)
KR A. Carter
PR C. Patterson
J. Marshall
A. Page
J. Randall (3-4 NG)
J. Allen
E. Kendricks C. Greenway (3-4 ILB)
J. Siemon
M. Blair
B.Bryant N. Wright #4
A. Winfield X. Rhodes #3
P. Krauss
J. Browner
G. Coleman (punter)
R. Gannon
B. Jackson
M. Van Eagan
D. Waller
J. Rice C. Branch #4
F. Biletnikoff J. Lofton #3
A. Shell
S. Wisnewski
D. Mosebar
W. Hawkins
R. Mix
C. Bass (kicker)
KR J. Ford
PR B. Joe Edmonds
H. Long
A. Thoms
C. McGloktin (3-4 NG)
D. Burgess
T. Hendricks
M. Millen J. Robinson(3-4 OLB)
O. Wilson
R. Woodson N. Wilson #4
W. Brown E. Allen #3
R. Lott
M. Davis
R. Guy
Neutral site: Silverdome, Detroit, MI
Who do you think would win this game?
Minnesota has a huge OL and with AP and C. Foreman running the ball and WRs' like R. Moss, A. Theiman and A. Rashad it will be a tough game for the Raiders.
The Raiders' D has a great secondary and stars like R. Woodson, W. Brown and E. Allen they will have to play their best game against Minnesota's WRs but they have a big, fast D-line and that might make it harder for the Vikings to dominate.
The Viking D has outstanding pass rush with legends A. Page, J. Allen and J. Randall dominating the game. They have the linebackers too but it will be tough on a very good Vikings' secondary to stop the Raiders' WRs' like J. Rice and F. Biletnikoff. The Raiders will have to get some help from B. Jackson and M. Van Egan to get the passing game going. The Vikings can get to the QB.
Both F. Tarkingtan and R. Gannon are running QBs' and it will be tough for the defenses to stop them.
You're living in a different universe.
This is Aiden O'Connell v. Joshua Dobbs.
NY, Are you ready to agree with me that AOC and Pierce are very very far from what the Raiders need next year. Sandy
Not at all. I didn't see the game but my initial reaction is the Raiders defense has vastly improved since Pierce took over. Pierce is a D coach. The offense is not his fault. The Raiders don't have a truly serviceable QB on their roster. That's on McZiegler!
Raiders D has improved with practice squad players. That's impressive!
Maxx Crosby is lobbying for the interim label to be removed from AP. If AP is good enough for Crosby, I'm still on board.
Sorry!
PS. I've seen what the Raiders have offered for the last 20+ years. Aside from Bisaccia, this is by far the most team cohesion we've seen. Still five games. If they exit the season upbeat about keeping Pierce and the prospect for next year, he has my vote!
NY, that was one of the most pathetic football games I've ever seen Pierce needs to go. Like you said you didn't see the game. The offense is not his fault?you're crazy he's the head coach is he only responsible for half the team whose fault is it. Pierce is dumb. Most cohesion wtf are you talking about. The Raiders have averaged 13 points in the last four games pretty f****** cohesive the offense is worse than with McDumbass. You posted up above how pathetic the offenses you just like to argue. Sandy
I'm not arguing, and certainly not for the sake of it. Just stating my opinion. The defense is measurably better than before McDaniels was fired. Inasmuch as the offense was truly pathetic (scoring zero pts), if I'm not mistaken, both Miller and James were out, then Jacobs went down.
The Raiders are playing with a makeshift defense and playing well on D. The offense is struggling but absent true OC and QB.
I'll add this. Every HC we've had has been a system coach who blew up the roster and failed with his system. Pierce is pragmatic and wants to build on toughness. I like that.
I'm not saying you have to agree with me, and I'm certainly not upset if you don't. No argument here.
I still have four games to change my opinion.
Shouldn't you be happy that their imploding? Better for you and the chances Harbaugh will be sought as HC.
Other Anon,
Al Anon
Look, this team is far from being a good team because it is having a lot of problems but needs a change and refuses to do it. And it has a fan base that won't complain about it just accept what it sells tothem.
But what you should be looking at is the Super Bowl! That's what L.V. was about when the Raiders first got there.
Man, that event will bring in a lot of big shots and celebrities! the Raiders are winners just because of the money they will get from revenue sharing!
The merchandise and people at the "Death Star" the Casinos will make big money.
Raidernation can hang around and go gamble and buy merchandise but after the Super Bowl- then what?
Yea, a mediocre football team on its' fourth rebuild and more excuses and lies from the NFL.
This is why I don't think the new NFL is as good as you do.
They intend to make huge revenue off L.V. with NFL licensed merchandise, NFL t.v./ cable shows, the "Death Star", Autograph shows, Super Bowl parties(public/ private), NFL 'on the web' contests-fantasy games and NFL shows.
the hotels, casinos and live shows will make huge money too off the fans/ tourists going to L.V. will make everybody wealthier and it will make a lot of money for the league, media and the Raiders too.
The NFL wanted a Super Bowl in L.V. so what will they do with the Raiders after that? They aren't worried about us now but what plans do they have after the Super Bowl? After the Super Bowl is over and they make millions the Raiders did what they wanted and the NFL leaves L.V. will they have the same attitude and help the team? What plans do they have for them?
NY, Peirce is in way over his head, your use of the word cohesion is completely out of place. If you had watched the game you would hae noticed that before halftime the Raider offense left the field early and had to come back out and run a play in which AOC was sacked.
Sandy
The Raiders offense has been anemic all year. In the last 20 years the Raiders have failed to put any HC on the sideline who's truly had complete control of games. Even Gruden missed on virtually every challenge he made, and I think he set a record for ineptitude on scripted opening drives.
As I've said probably 10 times before, IMO, Pierce's job interview should last the season. I'm not going to agree he should be fired until that plays out.
If firing Rich Bisaccia was a mistake, then it might also be a mistake to fire Pierce. We have the luxury of 4 more games.
On the other hand, if after the season Mark Davis decides to spend the money and hire Harbaugh, I will embrace the effort and hope for the best. Harbaugh clearly has the resume and he'd be dialed in to college scouting like no other NFL coach.
Option 1 will advance the cause and Option 2 will be a scorched earth rebuild. With that in mind, maybe you can understand why Crosby is lobbying for Option 1.
Can Raiders fire Hardegree right now ? I mean, I don't think Raiders will score another point for rest of the season.
It's an awkward moment wrt coaching because McDaniels and Lombardi were the Braintrust on offense and they both sucked... and largely put the Raiders in the position they are in now. Hardegree is not an OC and, so far, he's only been as good as his scripted plays, unable to make adjustments or call a game on the fly. Garoppolo can't be QB because he can't throw more than 20 yards, and O'Connell is making rookie mistakes, and now struggling with a makeshift O-line.
It's a mess!
But the defense has gained some traction, despite a totally underwhelming roster.
I do not think the defnese is underwhelming. Crosby is hall of fame, Spillane looks like he could be a pro bowler this year, Koonce, Moehrig, Epps, Robertson and Deablo are starter quality. Jenkins is serviceable at nose tackle and Wilson just played his best game as a pro. A DT that can rush the passer and another CB and the defense will be solid. I stand by what I previously said, the roster can compete for a playoff spot if they fix QB and Coach that is a big ask but in the crappy NFL it is possible. Hire Harbaugh, draft Jayden Daniels or McCarthy. If they had only signed Lamar Jackson to an offer sheet that was the solution. Two 1st for Jackson would have been a steal
Sandy
All those guys have played better under Pierce but, aside from Crosby, that's mostly a list of nobody's. Spillane has become top dog after Crosby, and he wasn't even a starter last season.
Aren't you worried that your statement suggesting this roster can compete for a playoff spot contradicts the hiring of Harbaugh who will blow up the roster for his own selections? New DC, new roster, new scheme. That seems more realistic than Harbaugh taking over for Pierce. Same as Gruden; same as McDaniels.
And isn't Jayden Daniels coming off back-to-back ACL injuries? He's great but that sounds risky!
Our offense has seemed to stalled out. What happened to the creativity? Josh Jacobs was injured yesterday, hyper-extended knee; and may be doubtful for Thursday Night's game. Crosby is still hurt, DaVante Adams disappeared from the Locker before the media guys were let in.
We've talked about it so many times on this site, how come the Raiders cannot figure out how to have a good defense with a good offense? If one is playing elite, the other is not. Time to figure this out. Bo Hardegree is not the OC next year. Get a top-notch OC that will help Pierce succeed as Head Coach.
I still think Pierce has done enough to earn the Head Coach position. He is a leader of men, he rallies the troops when he needs to, he is not content with losing and half-ass effort. I know the last 3 games have really bothered him, as well as it should; but he needs experience at OC. Here are some names that I would like to see as OC next season under Pierce:
Duece Staley (RB Coach Panthers, terminated)
Jerrod Johnson (QB Coach, Houston)
Eric Bienemy (OC, Commanders) may be on his way out as it looks like Rivera and staff will be let go.
Frank Reich (Former OC Eagles, HC Colts and Panthers)
Kliff Kingsbury
Tee Martin (QB Coach, Baltimore)
Klint Kubiak (PG Coordinator, 49ers)
Bruce Gradkowski (OC, XFL St Louis Battlehawks)
Byron Leftwich (Former OC, Buccaneers)
No Jayden has never had an ACL injury. Harbaugh did not blow up the 49ers when he went there. You seem to think the talent on the team is a lot worse (bunch of nobody's) than I do so what do you care babout blowing up the roster anyway. BTW, Nate Hobbs, Spillane, Crosby, Moerhig, Epps are all young and solid and Robertson looks like he can be a starter in the NFL.
Leader of men rallies the troops. What are you guys watching? 3 points in the last 6 quarters?
Sandy
Pierce said lack of offense was shocking, blamed coaching and execution. At one point he was on the sideline with the entire team rallying them to finish. Unfortunately, Renfrow's fumble and the last chance INT by O'Connell were backbreaking.
This thing will play out. They don't need my advice, nor should they want it.
I'm giving Pierce about 50-50. Big game on Thursday, and lots of injuries.
Two headlines going into Thursday's game:
Herbert out!
Pierce still evaluating who will play QB for Raiders.
IMO, the Raiders need to save face for yesterday. This isn't about making the playoffs it's about evolving the team under new coaching. Guys want Pierce and they are still engaged.
what about finding a special GM, coach or both?
why are you so into NFL/ media/ Patriot way hype that you can't accept sometimes a special guy or guys might be the ones to rebuild a football team?
we want somebody to rescue us from decades of incompetence but what about our own actions?
Some of us supported moving on from Al's era to a modern new era of how the NFL wants things to work. if we go with the Patriots/ NFL way we'll get some of the best football ever maybe the NFL will not be so mean toward us, maybe even try to help us!
if we get rid of Al's era things will get better its' just time that really exposed Al; he was great in his day but that's over!; we need to support the 'NFL way'. no more big spending on star free agents, drafting for size/ speed and athleticism, guaranteeing big contracts to star players, drafting special teams players too high and firing coaches too quickly.
now that Al is gone we're going back to our glory in few years!
Well, Reggie claimed it would take about five years to overhaul the Raiders. Five years? just how bad was the team? and just why did it have to take that long? did he Reggie without top advisers know how to do it?
Well, the team has gone to the playoff twice, the once top units are some of the leagues worse, the team is worth billions but refuses to sign top star free agents, it has fired three HCs', it has made some really bad trades, it signed a lot of injury prone-ex-star free agent players but hasn't done much with them, it ruined a lot of the units the Raiders were known for like the secondary, O-line and D-lines, it moved to a new city and still is losing.
When Al came from the LACs' he was one of the best assistants and scouts in the AFL. It was maybe the best hire in pro football history! that's why there's a winning history! its' why the Raiders are one of the best franchises in pro sports! A couple of, not a whole front office of guys built it!
that's where your claims start to get weak, you think either a Bellichick, good game manager or group of coaches are the best to go over a guy like Al isn't a bad opinion it just looks like you can't see what Al could do. It was him who changed pro sports and the Raiders aren't that good without him. even during in a losing slump they had better players and looked like they could excite fans.
But you want the 'NFL way' and for some guys to build a winner you might want to look for guys like Al to build the Raiders or somebody who can be good HC and find good players or a good GM.
NY, How do you know guys still want Pierce, you think Adams wants that loser or Jacobs no way after the last game. It aint high school a coach that is limited to rah rah is not going to cut it. Pierce is gone you should move on from these proclamations. The Raiders should rest Jacobs, Kolton and Crosby/bad knee play the rookies and get the highest draft pick available. Yes for the first time as a Raider fan going back to 76 I am advocating tanking. God help us if we miss out on Daniels or McCarthy and or Pierce gets lucky and wins a few and gets rehired.
Sandy
Sandy, I think you misunderstood my intention. I want Pierce to succeed, but I'm prepared to move on. You think Harbaugh will build off the current roster. IMO, that's a reach. In SF, Harbaugh had mgt/ownership making personnel decisions. In LV he will want complete autonomy. My understanding is that Harbaugh is hardnosed system coach with a chip on his shoulder. Ok, maybe that will work, but we shouldn't have any pretense about him keeping players he didn't hand pick.
Pierce has a chance to audition for the job. Unfortunately for him, he has to do it with players he didn't select.
Where the rubber hits the road is if Pierce does a decent job Mark Davis will have two compelling reasons to keep him. First, the Rich Bisaccia effect. Second, the players want Pierce to remain. I'll add a third. Money!
I have no skin in the game. I'm an observer. I just want the Raiders to break their 20-year cycle of failures. It's become the curse of Al. He traded Gruden (the original Chucky!) just when the Raiders were peaking and we've paid for it ever since.
I would agree getting shutout by the Vikings is inexcusable, but one game is not a fair sample (and expecting them to beat the Chiefs isn't reasonable). C.J. Stroud was shut down by the Jets, with Houston managing only 6 pts. It happens. Raiders could have won that game 3-0. Would that have made it any better? Not in my opinion.
There are four games left. I'd like to see them all, and I hope Mark Davis does as well.
the Raiders need to try the Steelers, Cowboys' or 49ers' ways!
you say they
what pro sports team have you ever heard of losing soley because of bad decisions? the Raiders with a legend and genius made more bad decisions than ANY NFL team over a nine year period!?
Al made bad decisions from the 90s' then went on a three year winning streak then started making bad decisions again?
trading Gruden shocked the team so bad that a guy who built many winning teams just couldn't win without him?
oh, then when R. Gannon left Al didn't know how to replace him with a good QB. and the other talent wasn't enough to push the team to more wins.
that Al was so stuck in the past that over a one year period his system got very old! so old that no matter how awesome the talent was he couldn't win anymore.
coaches and players didn't want to play for the Raiders anymore because Al was over paying them, letting them be in a more open and free situation and giving them a chance to win. but teams that paid less and were into discipline were better places to play.
I can't think of ANY pro sports franchise that EVER got so bad that they couldn't have one winning season or their bad decisions couldn't be climbed/ handled well enough for a mediocre team to have one winning season out of nine.
and if a team was winning a year before the slump and had a genius running it and with good assistants and a good roster- its' kind'a hard to believe bad decisions and a few mediocre drafts kept it from winning again.
I think if you have talent and are a genius and have some good assistants unless you really are doing some strange and incompetent things you should win once over a nine year period. if you know PARITY helps mediocrity win against good teams then it makes sense to look at other reasons for losing for nine years with a very good roster.
Raiders could get a 2-for-1 with Harbaugh and McCarthy. But will that be good enough? They'll need a better running game than we've seen from them this year, and the defense will need to pitch more low-scoring games.
NY, You are correct a couple of new o line men are necessary. A guard and a RT
I prefer Jayden Daniels over McCarthy but I believe MCCarthy is legit. When you spoke about aCL ijuries I believe you were referencing Michael Pennix from Washington who could go in the lat first round but mor eprobably second
Since you did not get a chance to watch the game you will be happy to know that Tyree Wilson had his best game playing mostly as a pass rushing DT.
Sandy
I watched the game a day after it aired. Wilson looked better, and I saw him inside. That's smart to move him around. Raiders need some return on that investment.
When I heard radio announcers talk about Daniels, then heard two ACL injuries, I put them together. My bad! I'm glad it's not true and Daniels is in the mix, but will he make it until the Raiders pick? Several teams at the top of the draft look desperate for a QB, starting with the Bears who have one but they will want to upgrade.
Strangely, QB talent is popping up everywhere... in late rounds, undrafted and buried in depth charts. Maybe the Raiders can get lucky!
To Raidernation,
Al Anon
The Pats' guys know football, Gruden knows football and all Reggie probably knew enough of NFL football and all he had to do was keep most of Al's staff!
the new era Raiders need to make big moves and that means trying other systems.
make big trades they need to trade J. Jacobs, J. Meyers, Jimmy G. and T. Moehrig and spend big on star free agents.
the 'brand' has embarrassed itself by making it hard for stars to go to L.V.! Al got them to sign with the Raiders and they wanted to be here. the claim they didn't want to be here was from media that wanted to see Al made into a dysfunctional, incompetent, aging GM.
now, its' all about L.V., the Super Bowl, being wealthier and- new stake holders?
is this what NFL fans can expect to get? over paying for a mediocre product that puts money first and football second? the Raiders seem to want to manage the team but not build a winner and if MD is acting that way what would business people/ billionaires do if they got a big stake in the team? are they putting a cheap team together while the NFL is trying to have a big Super Bowl in L.V. and they(Raiders) are trying to find new stake holders to try and make the team wealthier?
Its' winter and fans should be careful to be ready for Corona Virus, the flu or RSV.
Get your cold and flu medicines, have your soups and drink lots of fluids.
If you're taking the Corona shot make sure you don't take too many shots but you also should take time to think about it, it may not be a good idea to get it but if you do you might want to talk to family and a doctor about it, and you really should talk to them if you're taking more than one and you might want to think before getting another shot.
the Raiders will have a huge piece of revenue coming from L.V. because of the Super Bowl. they will get wealthier but will they spend the media claimed fans should support the new stadium thing because teams will be better able to afford super star free agents.
what plans do the Raiders have for '24? will they finally spend on stars and will they try to get that star HC or GM?
what will the NFL/ owners want to do with us? if the team is getting wealthier will they want new stake holders to buy a big stake in the team. I think the NFL may want to see another member having say in Raiders and want corporations, billionaires or groups to offer to buy a big stake in the team.
New '24 moves could bring us new stake holders to try and build the team.
The NFL has a salary cap.
You do know that, right?
Yea, I understand but you do realize that these owners will try to get every penny out of the fans, NFL cities and visitors to their NFL stores/ stadiums.
They have no problem with trying to squeeze money out of the cities and businesses they do business with.
They are benefiting from the money schemes other owners started like "Franchise free agency" and other things.
But they have a problem with wanting to pay their players enough to have something after they retire.
The Raiders play games with us with the salary info. they put up big numbers in the media and spend on some stars but not the top big name ones and that kind'a looks incompetent and they don't bring in more talent to build around the stars they signed.
It looks like they're trying to build a team when they're just putting up big numbers of contracts to stars but not the big time stars and they let them go. that doesn't make sense it wastes a lot of money but maybe NFL teams/ Raiders are finding ways to pay less and make deals, work out things to not pay the whole contract.
Raiders are not inflating salary info. They have to disclose it. Here it is to the dollar.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/las-vegas-raiders/cap/2023/
You have a choice. If you don't like it, don't buy it.
To NY Raider,
You are right but also a little naive and maybe confused.
Most of the contract offered aren't guaranteed and team might try to change it and make it smaller but sometimes teams will try to not pay out the full contract.
The Raiders have spent in such a ridiculous and shocking way that they've caused MD to be in debt and that's why I think they. I think the NFL advised MD to hire Gruden and the big contract was to make sure he was all in with the program. They also, paid Carr- I like the guy but he wasn't yet a star and they over paid him but the NFL wanted them to have somebody that looked like a franchise QB. And it turned out that he was a good QB- but as soon as they got a pro bowl WR they let Carr walk.
But other than a few guys they probably don't give guaranteed contract to the free agents/ star free agents and draft picks they signed.
The league for some reason isn't trying to help the Raiders build a winner but they do want us to think they are spending on guys that can help us win. What is happening the team has spent but save money too but its' putting them into debt. They need to spend on super star players to make a playoff run then worry about saving money and the salary cap.
That's funny. Teams can't unilaterally change contracts, nor can they simply get out of guaranteed contracts. Are you just making stuff up as you type?
And it's not the league's job to help teams "build a winner." That's welfare.
You need to regroup!
Al Anon, you continue to blame everybody but the Raiders. Accountability belongs to the Raiders. Every team has to navigate the NFL. It comes with the franchise.
If you get pulled over for speeding, do you blame the car manufacturer?
Maybe you'll like this...
There's a meme floating around Raiders circles on the Internet. It depicts a law firm ad with the caption "Have you been a Raiders fan of the last 20 years?" "If so, "you may be entitled to compensation."
Ironically, you'll read that and probably think compensation should come from the NFL.
Game day!
Home game against the Chargers without Justin Herbert and without Keenan Allen. Sounds like a dream come true for the Raiders. Yeah!
This is another trap game for the Raiders.
Raiders are without Kolton Miller, Andre James and Josh Jacobs, and Devante Adams is ill.
Aiden O'Connell has been less than stellar, sometimes throwing balls away instead of finishing his reads and dumping off to wide open checkdowns. The INT he threw to end the Vikings game had Mayer wide open in the middle of the field.
So, while the Raiders miraculously continue to show improvement on defense, the offense is getting worse. Adams has become a non-factor. How's that even possible?
Raiders will need to take a hard look at QB in 2024. Offensive line has been underserviced for years. Adams is probably a draft trade casualty. Jacobs won't even make it to the draft. He's a free agent next year.
No matter who is head coach, this team will look a lot different next year.
Question is, do you want the defense to carry forward? If so, Patrick Graham probably needs to stay... and Antonio Pierce is the only one to make that happen.
So this is AP job audition, Take 6. Three more to go.
Good luck!
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